My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 126 - Nice Office

Episode Date: June 21, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover the case of Lawrence DeLisle and the murder of Kim Wall.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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This is so weird for us. That's my favorite murder. We don't record Saturday. No, we record like midnight on Wednesday, usually. We try to schedule it. We were like, how painful will this be for Stephen to have to edit into the late early morning hours? That's right.

And how tired can we make Stephen be tomorrow? That's all we care about. But today, because I am going out of town, we have to do adjustments. Our father's day tomorrow. That's right. And so yeah, that's the worst because we just recorded and then we have to turn around and do one more book report real quick. Or like think of new things to talk about because it's not been a week.

I don't have anything. I mean, what did you get your dad for Father's Day? I think we're getting him a new iPhone. Oh my goodness. Because his iPhone, first of all, I've talked about this, but he loves Apple products. He's a big believer in Apple. He's own stock. Well, he owns stock for a while, but then the market and everything crashed.

So I used to be like, are you rich, dad? Secretly and not telling us. He's like, nope. But he like, he very much, it's almost like it's a Bay Area thing a little bit where it's like those boys from San Jose. There are boys. Yeah. They were in the garage together and now look at him.

I like to support those are the neighbors. Those nerds down south. So he he's had a five forever, oh my gosh, which now fives look, iPhone fives look like credit cards. They're so tiny. Yeah. It's like this little thing. So now we get to get him an actual man size.

You get yourself one too, because you need an upgrade. Okay. I also need thank you for my permission. I love you for that because I wouldn't, I would never do it. I'll wait until I drop it. Yeah. I can't do it. That's greedy.

It's greedy. It is. I'm selfish. Greedy is good. No, it's not. Greedy is good. Your phone is slow and you're a busy, you're working. That's basically your office.

So you're like getting a nice office. That's all. You're exactly right. I would add on a laptop to that because mine, so remember how for a while it would be moody and all of a sudden I couldn't do a P. I wouldn't be able to type P. Then I spilled water on it and all kinds of stuff started happening. You started like everything go orange at one point or something. Yes.

There was some weird screen where I was like, did I just win on asteroids? What just happened to my computer? And I, for a while I was convinced that there's a, Russians are watching me in a strange mirror image on my laptop. They are. But now it just doesn't do stuff sometimes. Like I'll just be typing and then it just freezes for a while. Uh-uh.

I need to throw that thing out. Do it. That's what you do, right? You throw it into a ravine. It's probably the safest thing to do, actually. Try to take that battery out and then just hook it off of a street on Mulholland. Do it. If you hit someone in the head, you get extra points.

Yeah. Do it. I got my dad. Can I tell you, I just think it, I almost just did this to like, cause I thought this was such a good idea to be like, yes, I'm going to support this. Yes. For Father's Day, there was like a 30% discount at 23 and me. And I was just like, I fucking love you guys.

That's like the best marketing. I'm going to give, get that for my dad. Oh, but he'd love that. Yeah. He's totally into it. We like are contacted once by someone who maybe was a family member and all this shit. And so I got that for him and I, I just love that it's like the perfect timing of like, Hey, do you all kids want to see if your dad's a murderer?

Like let's get him a discount. Let's upload some shit. Exactly. Um, you know, I think I told you this, but I joined ancestry.com because, because my father's, my mother's father was stabbed in a bar fight. But I want, I was like, what's the detail of that? I know my family's not telling me the whole story. Oh my God.

And no one's ever told anybody the whole story because. And he died? Yeah. How old was he? That's how he died. It was when my mom was 21. Oh my God. And it was the day she had, she found out and the next day she had to take her nursing

test to become a licensed RN. And did she pass? Yes, she did. Isn't that weird? That's crazy. She said she didn't know, she has no memory of taking the test and she doesn't know how she passed it. She cheated.

That's also on the ancestry file. Did you find anything? No, I couldn't figure out, like it just brought up like a couple things and I couldn't figure out how to make it go to where I wanted. Dude, we got to go to the Sacramento, the Petaluma library and get some microfish action going on. San Francisco, all those people were San Francisco style. Even more fun, we'll put on some like fucking scary music while we do it.

Like Starship? What's that? You know, Jefferson Airplane later in the 80s became Starship, which is very, they're from the Bay Area and everyone's very proud. So they buy all their phones. They do a lot of microfish research. Okay, I love it. Yeah.

That's crazy. I know. Isn't that nice? Someone looked that up for Karen. I can't figure out how my grandpa died. Never met him. Or he wasn't the greatest. Okay, what's that in your hand?

This is... Kurt, he wasn't the greatest. Rumor has it, according to my mother, not the best dad, that, so last episode, I was telling one of my ripoff I've survived stories and in it, I referenced the I survived story. I wasn't talking about the, but it was also in the same episode about the man who was attacked by a bear and his dog Ladybug, who helped him survive. But I didn't know if Ladybug had survived and in my mind, I'd remembered it because I have watched the entire episode minimum twice, but I couldn't remember.

And he, the man himself, who tells the story looks sad in the face, probably because he had a scalp ripped off by a bear once. I mean, it's a great story is crazy, but he just has a little bit of a like, you know, tenderness to him. So I was like, that's a guy whose dog died. That's a guy who's lost all the nerves in his forehead when they sewed his fucking scalp back on. It may be.

Although what's, nothing's connected up there. That's why like... Well, I can't move mine. That's because of Botox. We should dig video Georgia trying to move her face. I'm trying to furrow my brows so hard. Oh, there. Oh, ding.

And then a muscle pops out of your eye or just the Botox comes squirting out of my forehead. And then into my forehead, oh my God, now I'm a believer. I was looking at this divot that I have in my forehead that looks, I used to call it the hatchet wound, because it's not just a wrinkle, like it's always been a deep. Because you furrow your brow all the time. Crevasse. Yeah, I do all kinds of stuff up here. Yeah.

But I mean, I don't know. I feel like this needs surgery to go away. Honey, let me introduce you to the powers that are Botox. No way. Absolutely. That's this. It's this. Yeah.

But it's deep. And I think there's like actually bone loss underneath it. How? Did you smack your head? No, I just keep rubbing my finger on it like this over and over. No, I can tell you right now a little bit of Botox will get rid of that. Jesus Christ. You'll be like a believer.

A believer. Maybe I should do. Maybe I should do. What if I do? And then suddenly I can't stop talking about Justin Bieber. What if I do Botox but only on this and then they leave the rest of my face aged? You could do that. Okay.

Face isn't aged. Thanks for that. Yeah, I got it. Okay. So this is the update that we got. It says update on the dogs of episode 125. It's from Kristen and she says, I was pretty concerned over the fate of the dogs and the I survived stories Karen talked about and mentioned.

So I had to research. It turns out in both cases, the dogs survived. Oh my God. In both the stories. Both. Even Ladybug. Ladybug. From the Appalachian.

Appalachian. No, no, no. Appalachian. Appalachian. Appalachian. Yeah, I saw you get corrected on Twitter for that. Sure. But also there was a couple of people who were like, every single person says it lacked this.

That's what I imagine in my mind that they were, how they were yelling at me. But then lots of people were like, look, I live over here and I never heard that. But we got that great tweet of a guy sent us a tweet that said, if you say it Appalachian they'll throw an Appalachia and that's how you know it's Appalachian. Appalachian. That's your. Appalachian. Not a mnemonic reminder or whatever it's called.

Okay. So here's what happened from the Appalachian trail killer story, Randall Lee Smith parentheses wire all serial killers names three words. We know the answer to that. Go ahead. Tell them because they, they're not named three words. They just include their middle name when they identify them so that Randall Smith in fucking or Belmont, where's it, where's Belmont, California and Belmont, California doesn't

suddenly get labeled a serial killer. Yeah. And he's like, I'm Randall Marie Smith. Please leave me alone. Randall Marie Smith, you get up on this porch and you stop killing people on the Appalachian trail. Okay. So Randall Lee Smith's dog, Bo, all starving, Bo boy dogs named Bo and late and female dogs

named lady or like the best lady. So Bo was adopted though it wasn't mentioned to whom that'd be so weird. They give a name picture of the person's phone number from an article printed at the time quote Randall Lee Smith was buried next to his mother at the Fairview Cemetery in Narrows. His dog Bo scratched in the dirt at the graveside ceremony. He has since been adopted. Oh, that's like, he still loved his owner. I think that's the only person that loved Randall Lee Smith.

Oh, dogs are so good. Dogs do their best. They do their best. And he was like, this is my owner who gave me fish. And then that's like, no, Scott gave you fish. Yeah. Not your owner. My owner fed me and I just didn't look when he was doing the other stuff.

So I don't know what happened. I was taking a nap. I get distracted anytime there's anything. It smells good. You guys, there's a squirrel. Yeah. I mean, if you've met a squirrel there, it's so much fun. Have you ever been on a trail?

There's a thousand squirrels. The smells are everywhere. Everywhere. There's so much pee. And then from the bear attack story on the same episode, Ladybug, who helped save her owner from the grizzly mauling, actually did survive, quote, I believe that Ladybug saved my life. The man who got attacked, who we're still not naming said, noting that the dog also survived

the ordeal and is OK. Both stories have taught me to stay out of the forest forever. Stay sexy and don't let your dog get murdered, Kristen. Good job, Kristen. Thank you for doing that research. Good job, Kristen. If we could all just do my research for me, that would be best. I have a message from my story last week about the glamour girl slaying and at the very end

I talk about how there's a possible connection to one other long cold case and I say about how the woman's, the, the murder victims, 50 years after she was discovered is the Jane Doe is finally. When, how, when am I saying? Yeah, I hear you. The German to do it is based on the great niece. OK. Remember that?

She was like, I'm going to sleuth it. And she's like, and I was like, I bet she's a merino. She messaged us. Oh shit, girl. She says, Michelle Fowler here, Dot was my great aunt and the MFM ladies were right. I am a quote, fucking murderer. Hi. Hi, Michelle.

That's so exciting. I just wanted to say thanks for the credit regarding solving Dot's disappearance, but it doesn't all belong to me. The Doe Neck work was what led me to Dot, the Boulder Sheriff's Department, Vidick Cue Society, Vidick Cue Society, Boulder, Sylvia Petem and a whole host of people helped identify Dot. Thank you for keeping Dot's memory alive, SSDGM. Awesome.

I know. That's really cool. That's so generous. I would take all the credit. Vidick Cue, Vidick Cue, Vidick Cue, Steven Lee, look up and see what that is. See if you can't get a phonetical pronunciation. No, or just see what it does, what they do and who they are. She's like, I didn't do it alone.

I would also like to give credit, but this is not related to your case or my case. This is related to, because I'm going up north, I have to board my dogs, but I've never boarded Frank before because he's from the streets and I've always known it wouldn't work out. The place that I board my dogs is pretty intense. It's like one of those, it's like, this is a wonderful farm heaven where your dogs can roam free and there's a water park and all this stuff. They have to pass a test to be boarded there. Don't buy people to face test.

Yes. I couldn't pass that. Could you? That's hard. It would be hard for me too. So he had to go, I dropped them off this morning and then I was like, but I want to leave them here because I want to leave tomorrow unless he doesn't pass the test. And I had to basically plan because George is in, if Frank doesn't get into private school.

Sweet school. George girl is just like, I like everybody. I want to do what everybody else wants to do. Fucking Frank is like, I might bite you. Yeah. Frank's like, I don't trust anyone. I don't understand what's happening and I just want to bark. And I'm so close to the ground.

I just am a little, it's a little scary. Everything has to look up to see anything. But I don't like looking up. Yeah. So he, I got the call at noon, but Frank passed and they were going to let him stay. But it was kind of sad because she said, he is a little shy, which does not sound like Frank at all. He misses you.

So he's a little freaked out. But I think once he, because he's separate from George, cause it's big dogs, little dogs, but then I'm sure they let them come back together and then he'll be, he'll be fine. Oh my God. That's so sweet. Cause he loves my dog. Zitter's dogs.

Oh, okay. So it's not like he doesn't, he'll be fine. He'll be fine unless you get a call. You need to come pick your dog up, ma'am. If anyone would do it. It's Frank. He is, I don't know how he does it, but he like is the most accident prone. I told you the time I've told you this at least twice.

The time he stood up to put his head, head out the window in the car, stood on the window, um, roll or down our thing and began to fall out the window. And I, as we're driving down my street, I have to lean over and grab him by the tail and pull him back into the car. I thought you were going to say he stood on the, uh, window rolly thing and rolled his fucking face up into the window. No, he rolled it down and then began to fall out as I'm trying to like get somewhere. That's terrifying.

That's Frank in a nutshell, like he does things where you're like, this is like a, it's like a Rube Goldberg machine of you getting killed and I come in at the last second and save you every time. Oh my God. He also, anytime he stands on the couch, changes the channel, like he always knows to stand right on the clicker. I love that. He's amazing.

That's adorable. Yeah. Um, oh, I want to say I love a thank you corner because I complained about my car key on the last episode, how it unlocked all the car doors automatically. Oh yes. Yes. And I mean everyone from everywhere who's ever owned a car apparently knows that it's easy to fucking change that and they all told me and I appreciate it.

Oh good. And they, someone even sent me like step by step directions because I clearly haven't done it yet still. I was like, great. Good to know. And then I'll never do it. Right. But I appreciate that.

I love that they're like, it's this easy. I know. You do this. You do this. How is this thing and then people will be like, this is how it is. Yes. Great. I'm smarter now.

The best. That's the key. We need that. That's what this podcast is truly about is we just pretend it's true crime and we really just get help from everyone. Yes. It's so good. Oh, um, so join the fan cult because now we're going to be posting unboxing videos.

Oh yes. Because we get so many gifts in that P.O. box and they're amazing and they're from all over the place. They have the, we have the best time opening them privately. Yeah. We just like open them and we're all like, ooh, went on and then one day last week we were like, let's do this on video. Yeah.

People would like to see this because it's also all the, like there's art that are like inside jokes that we have with you guys that you should be seeing. There's a fucking incredible skirt with Elvis. It's got the pattern that was made is Elvis with cookies all over it and it's a gorgeous skirt. And we'd go to join the fan cult, my favorite murder.com can join it and you'll see those videos and we'll just keep doing them. And we're thinking of more and more videos to make because we know that's like a super

fun element. We're just trying to make the fan cult the thing you want it to be of like a extra special connection thing. We want to do it too. We're just like, we just have to get our shit together. Do a forum of what you'd want to see too because we don't know. I mean, yeah, I just suggested something to Georgia and she's like, oh, if you want to see it, I'm like, yeah, right.

Isn't that kind of what it's all about? Yeah, please. I don't know. It was just me screaming naked through a field. Yeah. And I was like, people love the way you scream. Um, is that it? Yes.

Goodbye. Do you have anything else? Go ahead, Steven. Oh, I was going to say, I looked at the vid, vid, vid ICQ society is, I want to say it's Vidoc. That's my doc. I'm just putting it out there. I think you're right.

Yeah. I'm just putting a random thing out there. I agree. It's basically like a venue where like-minded persons in and out of forensics would gather to discuss and debate crimes and mysteries. So it was established in 1990 by, it doesn't say their name, but people who worked in the US Customs Service Special Agency. Customs?

Oh, interesting. Founded by William Fleischer, Frank Bender, and Richard Walter, what does VSM mean? Does that mean like FBI or friend? Uh, they're priests. Oh. So yeah. Three priests that work for customs. Cool.

Yeah, look at them. Let's see. Are they nerds? Yes, I've definitely seen this place before because yeah, it's basically people who have experience and education in forensics that get together and go, how do we maybe solve these crimes? And everyone can bring one, like a cold case and be like, can we do this one? We need help with this.

Exactly. We have to bring a cold case and a bottle of vodka. Top shelf. And by the time the bottle of vodka is finished, the cold case is solved. Yes. Learning things. Okay. Do you go first this week or do I go first?

I think I went first last week, which was four days ago. Right. I had to wait to drink until you were done. God damn it. That sucked. Am I? Should I sit on this blanket because of things? Yes.

That is a barf couch. Is it bothering you? No. I just don't want to get a hot butt. Oh, is it a warm butt? Not right now. I'm fine. I was just like, I'll pull it out if not, but it doesn't matter.

It's just embarrassing. I don't want to sit in barf. This is great. I mean, it's old barf. It is. How old? Well, how do you clean barf off? Everyone, how do you clean barf off a couch?

She's screaming at me. You heard it. You heard it. You heard it. No, I have a hot face. I'm sorry. We can take all this out. No, I don't want to.

Trace and hot butt on one show? Three fucking cats. Clearly my house is going to be disgusting. I am okay with that. Okay. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, HelloFresh has you covered. HelloFresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the

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I miss cooking so much. I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since, like, early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and HelloFresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca

slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Mike Corey, the host of Wondery's podcast Against the Odds. In our next season, three masked men hijack a school bus full of children in the sleepy farm town of Chautchilla, California. They bury the children and their bus driver deep underground, planning to hold them for ransom. Local police and the FBI marshal a search effort, but the trail quickly runs dry. As the air supply for the trapped children dwindles, a pair of unlikely heroes emerges.

Follow Against the Odds wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. What was I going to say? Okay. All right. So as you are a nice survived retailer this week, I'm going to be a Confessions tapes retailer. Whoa. People write to us about you have to watch that all the time.

Yeah. It's really good. I started watching it when it first came out. It's like, this is exciting, but I, but it turns out that people falsely confessing and people being wrongly commit, you know, wrongly accused and wrongly all this shit really upsets me in a way that I can't handle it. So I stopped watching them. Like I started watching like half of them and they're really fucking troubling.

Yes. It's horrifying. Yeah. It's like this man spent 25 years in hell. Yeah. For no reason. Yeah. And the person, yeah.

It's really, really troubling, but it's a really well done show. It's on Netflix, the confession tapes. If you can handle that shit, go for it. So the other night I was bored and I was like, all right, there's one of these. I've never tried to watch. I'm going to try to watch it. And I ended up being like blown the fuck away by the story. Okay.

Cool. And it's in Michigan. So I was like, Vince, do you remember this? And he's like, yeah, this, because this was a huge fucking story in Michigan. Okay. I had never even heard of. All right. So this is the case of Lawrence or Larry Delisle.

Hmm. Yeah. This is one of those cases. It's really reminiscent of Susan Smith and Aunt Diane. And it also kind of reminds me of those stories of like people who leave their kids in cars and like, did they, or didn't they do it on purpose? Those crazy stories. Yeah.

All right. So here we go on the evening. It's also sad, but here we go on the evening of August 3rd, 1989. I was stopped to like get my bearings. Yeah. Right. Cause you have to picture it. Yeah.

1989. I was, I was living in Sacramento. Yeah. It was nine. It was nine. Right. You were nine. And like, you know, everything's this and that.

You're in the eighties. Here we are. Late eighties. Past the MTV era. Now we're into some, we're into more of everyone's trying to be more New York-y. Oh yeah. High brown. Mac makeup, brown lipstick.

Yeah. It might be a bit early for that, but. Yeah. I think it's a little more Duran Duran kind of thing going on. Yeah. But that's, the sun is setting on Duran Duran. Okay. So it's the evening of August 3rd, 1989.

Lawrence, I'm going to call him Larry. Larry Delisle, D-E-L-I-S-L-E of Lincoln Park, which is a suburb outside of Detroit. And your favorite band. That's fucking right. Long live Lincoln Park. Took his family out on a drive. So they're in the station wagon. Larry's 28 years old.

He has a steady job as a mechanic. He mainly works on brakes and for the front end. I don't know what that means. You know, the front part of the car. The front end of a car. Sure. Right. And just as his father had done before him.

So the car that the Delisle family is driving that night is a Ford LTD station wagon. And it had belonged to Larry's dad, but two, about two years, less than two years earlier, his dad had killed himself in the car, shot himself in the fucking head in the car. And they kept the car and they even had like still had blood stains in the car that they couldn't wash out. No. No. So yeah, they kept the car.

Horrifying. But you know, they're, he makes like 450 an hour and they have four kids. It's not like they have the money to then go buy a car. True. Yeah. You know what I mean? But the emotional. Yes.

I get like it's a necessity and yet the emotional toll of that is. Right. Awful. I don't know if they're there in the story. It's just this crazy. Maybe it is. Who knows? Right.

So that night, the family, it's wife. The wife is Suzanne, eight year old Brian, four year old Catherine, two year old Melissa and eight month old Emily. I know. Went to town. Then went to town of Wyandotte, which is a word, which is part of the area known as Downriver. Okay.

And they go into shop for bedroom furniture for the girls and they get ice cream and local frozen custard shop, which I know from Vince is a thing. Good. And fucking Michigan. Yeah. For like a little while, there was a frozen custard shop at the Beverly Center. Oh. It was down by Macy's.

Yeah. Kind of in a corner. No, I never went. Oh, it's. How is it different? It's thicker. Yeah. Cause it's frozen yogurt.

It's like the diet version. Yeah. Frozen custard is like the fatty, fatty, fatty version. Yeah. And it is good. Man. Any kind of fucking soft serve. I'm on board.

This is like soft if they, if they put butter and soft serve, I mean, there's something to it where you're just like, this is the best thing. Walking somewhere with a soft serve cone is like my fucking dream. Did you guys have fosters freeze in Orange County? No, but they have them here and Vince makes me go to them sometimes. There's like one left in like Glendale or Burbank. Right. It's in Glendale.

Yeah. Cause that's, that was kind of the main, you could, you know, after school, we just walk around downtown Petaluma and there was a fosters freeze. I don't know what it is now. It was a, like a walk up window with a little screen and you go up and be like half and a half dipped and then walk around with this ice cream. No, we were, we were fucking shishi waspy neighborhood. So we had Heidi's frozen yogurt.

No, it was called Heidi's, what was it called? Hold on. Heidi's rich lady frozen yogurt. Yeah. Do you remember? I just remember golden spoon. Golden spoon we had. Yeah.

There was like a penguin. That's pretty on the nose. Yeah. I know penguins. Okay. It was just shishi. Yeah. It was just shishi stuff.

Okay. Well, everyone thought it was diet. So not diet. Yeah. It's so not. Okay. The cluster chop. So according to Larry, they, uh, as they left the ice cream shop, one of the daughters

said, left, can we go see the boats again? Daddy. And, uh, they had done so the night before as well. So what she meant by that was that she wanted to drive, they would drive down to the end of Eureka road, which was a dead end street. And right when you got to the dead end street, um, there was a, like a wood and metal little barricade and then a couple feet of grass and then it went right into the Troy River. Okay.

So there was like really nothing keeping you from just walking right into the Troy River. Okay. But they would pull up to the end, to that spot in the car. And because the Detroit River is one of the busiest border crossings in the world for cargo boats. Wow. Um, yeah. I know.

Uh, you normally can see boats go by and it was at night and all the boats were lit up and so the little kids would be like, we're the boats or whatever, right? Which is like, that makes sense. And when I was a kid, we used to do a thing called, we, we would, when we would leave my aunt's house, which was in like a palace where it is, we'd go over a hill and you could see the city light up and we'd go, the lights of the city was like our favorite thing. Oh, yeah.

Like stupid shit. They're real dumb. Yeah. The good stuff. Yeah. And I remember one day though, who's eight months old, she's teething though and starts to cry. So they're like, let's get the fuck out of here.

So they head out, but first they stop in at a drugstore that was around the corner and when they leave, according to Larry, he misjudged his turn and instead goes back in the direction of the dead end. Hmm. I don't like that. Larry says he'd been having leg cramps and pain all day in his calf and he had taken off his shoes while he drove because of it. And he said he suddenly had a very painful leg cramp and it caused his foot to stomp down

on the gas and he had to reach in and manually, like almost like a Charlie horse where you can't move your leg, had to manually pull his leg off the gas, but he said that even when he had done, he had done so the car didn't slow down, that the accelerator had stuck for some reason. Okay. So those two things, this is what happened. Now I will say this, uh, one time I was driving my sister's 1968 Mustang up D street in Petaloma and the accelerator pedal dropped to the ground and suddenly I was going 70 miles an hour

down. I feel like that's happened to me before. Yeah. On older cars, like that, it was the craziest thing and as I was driving, like, uh, increasingly I was right on the train tracks and then, um, no, but I basically was accelerating to the point where I was like, I'm going to run this stop sign like it was crazy. And then I got my train was coming, I got my foot under and kicked it back up. Holy shit.

You're like, flip it. Yes. And I don't, I think I've always been a little bit stuck up because of that moment where instead of panicking, I was like, you have to fix this because I was in a racing car toward death. Isn't it crazy to think about like what you would have done? I mean, my brother once was in a car with his friend who started having a seizure on the freeway while he was driving.

No. And I'm over him and like get on, like get pulled the car over. Fuck. I know. And I'm like, Asher, you are a fucking like you're a superman because you know, that's my, that is like why I used to have panic attacks. My first panic attack was driving 70 miles an hour down up the one, the one on one. And all of a sudden it hit me.

You could have a seizure at any moment. I could have a seizure at any moment and kill myself and everybody around me. And I, I mean, I had a panic attack that like I didn't drive on the freeway for four years. It was crazy. I've always, I've always, or lately there, or once I theorize that the reason I always move in with boyfriends immediately is because the one seizure I've ever had was in my sleep. Oh, yeah. So I don't want to fucking sleep alone, you know.

That was after my seizures. Thank God my boyfriend Kevin at the time was so good. He, I slept with him every night and he had to talk me to sleep every night because I would, the second I laid down, I would start having panic attacks. That's terrifying. It's so fucked up. That sucks dude. But I want to introduce this.

So I believe that story as much as I do not believe that story because how fucking can be me? That's this whole story. I mean, you and I are going to have, like, we have to decide. Okay, great. Because it's, yeah, that right now it's like, yeah, I see that story happening. Yeah. All right.

This is a bummer. Here we go. And it happened to me once. I know. But not the cramped part. I don't like the cramped part. It doesn't jib. But if you get the, I feel like an older car, if you push the accelerator all the way to

the ground, that's a place where it could get stuck. So the leg cramp pushing it to the ground might be a good, like, makes sense because it's not like you just tapped on it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Although I was just, not that it's all exactly the same every time. Do it. But when I was, when I was going 30 miles an hour, so only lightly tapped my foot, that

thing dropped as if a piece of metal had broken and didn't come back up. So it was, it wasn't about force. Yeah. It was like a thing down there, a spring broke, whatever it was. So I have a lot of opinions, but I don't know where to put them. It's on this podcast. It's the answer. You're telling me where to put them.

No, the opinions go on this podcast. Okay. So then then, hold on, the accelerator was stuck. Meanwhile, on the top, okay. So meanwhile, let's cut to the top floor of a high rise apartment building that was directly next to the dead end street and also looked over the Detroit River. It's like this pretty brick old apartment building. So their self-confessed nosy neighbor, Beverly Lake, was out on her balcony that night where

she had mounted a high-powered binoculars on a tripod. I love this moment. Beverly is a fucking nosy Nellie. Yes, I am too. About her nosiness, Beverly's husband once said to her, you know, if you keep doing this, someday you're going to witness a murder. And she's like, that's exactly what we're trying to do. Right.

So she's on the 11th floor, top floor. She has a bird's eye view of both Eureka Street and the dead end and the lake. The night before, she had witnessed and commented to her father who was with her about the Delisle family car, the station wagon had pulled up there and was idling in front of the river. As he said, they had done it the night before to look at the boats. And when the car first came to the river that night, she noticed it again. So when they first came and then they were like, fuck this shit, let's get out of here. So by her account, about 20 minutes after first seeing the car that night, at about

9.20 PM, she hears a quote, terrible roar and saw the station wagon head straight towards the barrier, full speed followed by here seeing the Delisle station wagon crack through the barrier. It becomes airborne and crashes like 30 to 50 feet into the water. Fuck. Yeah. And she says she never heard it slow down once. She heard the accelerator as it was flying through the air.

And she hears Suzanne, the mom scream as the car goes into the river. Oh, God. It's really terrible. The car ends up about 90 feet down south of the river because of the current and it's 30 fucking feet deep. Shit. Isn't that crazy? Yeah.

I did not expect to be that deep. So when the search and rescue arrived and there's video of this, I mean, watch the confession tapes, it's troubling. They see the taillights are still visible of the car, I know. And they find Lauren, Larry and Susan had escaped the car through the blown out front window. So when they hit the water, the front windshield blew out, they swam out, but all four children were trapped in their seats, still in the car at the bottom of the river.

And they were pulled out, you know, hours of CPR were done. But sadly, none of the four children survived. Oh, God. And, okay, police questioned Larry that night. He tells the investigators about, says something was stuck in the gas pedal. He was thinking that maybe his shoe had come loose and hit it, but police didn't buy his leg cramp story, especially when the doctors at the hospital couldn't find anything wrong with his leg at all.

Also for some reason, they were like, this is insane. Like we just want to leave and go to Florida on vacation and get out of here. Like, yeah. No. Bad move. Yeah. But she supports, Suzanne supports him 100% and is like, that's exactly what happened. He didn't do it on purpose.

This was an accident. You know. Okay, that's good. Yeah. So she stands by him. But of course the fucking media goes bananas. It's a small town, everyone knows each other and the media eats it up. It's super sensational.

They even show the dead children being carried out of the Detroit River. No. I saw it. It's horrible. And that's like when people see that they go bananas. It's an emotional reaction. And the police who were there that night helping also have this anger and emotional reaction to these dead children.

Yes. Kind of as someone needs to be blamed for this kind of way. Of course. It's really fucking awful. There's one guy who's like, is being passed one of the children on a boat and his eyes just looked insane in this way of like, this isn't really happening. He's clearly going to have PTSD after. It's really fucking awful.

I mean, that's the also that's the part of this first job of first responders that never gets talked about where like they see horrible things. They see horrible things every goddamn day. They had my mom told me once and I won't tell the specifics of it because it's it's truly horrible and I wish she hadn't told me. But my dad saw something early on and she said he had nightmares about it. He would wake up with nightmares about it as a fireman as a fireman because they do a lot of resuscitations.

They don't just do fires. It's like, you know, when you call 911 the fire department is the one that comes. Yeah. And he just saw some pretty awful things in like in in that happened to children. And that he just had nightmares about it for years and years and it kind of didn't go away. So it yeah, the impact is terrible. It also makes me think of the community meeting that we talk about all the time in the Golden State killer when the guy stand up stands up and says, there's no way that if a man's

in the house, he's going to let an intruder attack his wife. Yeah. It's that thing. I'm sure people said I don't want to step on this if this is what's about to happen. How can you escape a car that your children are still in? Yeah. How can you swim away from that car? Yes.

And so I'm still on the fence about his guilt or innocence. So there is that argument, which I don't we you and I both have talked this many times is like, you can understand how people are going to react to things, right? You know, they both swim to the surface, but apparently he doesn't know how to swim either. Oh, let me get it. Yeah. But yeah, you're right. I jumped it.

I jumped it. No, no, no, no, it's true. I mean, it's it's it's when I first watched the confession tapes, I was like, he's so fucking innocent. This is all bullshit. He did an accident. But the more researched it in the past 10 hours, the more I'm like, I don't know. Okay.

All right. So, um, okay, the media goes crazy and they show the video also of the station wagon. It's this dramatic video of the station wagon being plucked out of the river. And the media starts stalking, staking out the Delisle house until five days after the crash, when Larry and Susan agree, Suzanne are ready to do an interview. So so he looks like a not as intelligent, kind of puggier Ted Bundy. Oh, okay. He looks like a working man's Ted Bundy.

Okay. And she looks like every, I think Midwestern mom, you know, so so they're sitting on their little porch in front of their little house on lawn chairs and surrounded by reporters and cameras, they seem super dazed, but there's no emotion. They're just, you know, not reacting at all in the fact that their kids, it just, or kids had just been killed. Yeah. Especially him.

Probably in shock. Well, later, Larry says that he had taken to Valium before the interview, which is why he seems so calm. And he's like, I fucking shouldn't have done that. But it's also how we say, like, you never know how you can't ever know how you're going to react in situations. And sometimes it's not how people want you to react. Well, and that's why, yeah, it's like how people are slowly learning that and how the

press, the press wants the story and the press wants the thing that's going to sell magazines or these days get clicks, which is emotions. Yes. Raw emotions. Exactly. So it's like, get in here and suddenly it's, do you see the blue dress or the gold dress? Is this guy innocent or guilty? It's up to you.

But then they'll be like, she's too emotional. Those emotions are fake. They don't seem right. They seem forced. So there's no fucking way to win. No, there's no, I mean, I think the way to win is like, why are these people speaking to the press days after four of their children died? Yeah.

That's, you don't have to do that. Why are the press hounding them after their children just died? Well, it's, yeah, I mean, Jesus. Because I think a lot of people in the community are like, how could they let, yeah, how could they let their kids drown there? I would never let that happen. So everyone was like fired up about it. So they talked casually about the crash, saying they didn't know what had happened.

They didn't express any emotion or feeling, of course, makes the public even more pissed off about them. On August 10th, 1989, a couple days, so a couple days after the crash, was that an earthquake? No, there's someone on the tennis court. Oh, it's an earthquake of people playing good tennis really well. That's stupid. Okay. So Larry's brought in for questioning and a polygraph test by Sergeant John Paul Maider

of Michigan State Police. All right. So Paul Maider is known in law enforcement community for extracting confessions from people, which is a good, they're all like, that's a great thing. Okay. He's like, I can pull a rabbit out of a hat, right? In their minds, he's super good at it. Okay.

So this dude, and he's interviewed in the confession tapes, listen, I'm not judging, I'm not putting any judgment on whether or not the guy is guilty or innocent, that a fake confession or not, or if he's a good cop or not, I'm not saying any of that. He is a fucking douche, like, not judgment on anything, but that fact that he is a fucking cocky douche. Okay. I really don't like him. Okay.

But at one point he says to Larry, I've just been given a gift to look deeper into people than anyone ever thought possible to do. Like he's just really into himself. And he, in saying that he believes that when he's saying that? Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. And that's odd.

He's a grand master in how he can pass a lie detector test himself. So he starts, so this is just one of those confession tapes that are really problematic. He starts to make Larry believe that he's crazy and maybe he did do it on purpose but just didn't realize it. One of those like, you know, your subconscious mind took over and he was overwhelmed by the stress of, you know, your baby was crying as a hot night and maybe you're, you're not a monster. I know you're not a monster.

You know? Yeah. And maybe you did it subconsciously then we'll know that, you know, and he has so much sway because this is the man who's lost his four children, lost his four children. He also has a 10th grade education. So he's, you know, at one point, at one point, you know, he says like Larry's like, I must have been a monster if I had done it. And this guy goes, that's very astute of you to realize that.

And he goes, what's astute? Like he doesn't know what's going on. And he lies to him. He says like, when we say something is done on purpose, does that mean there's pre-planning? Like did you do it on purpose? Was it an accident? But it was, you know, telling him, oh, he was like, it really took courage to do what you did.

Like even making him feel like he empathizes with him or is on his side. Yeah. Okay. And so during the interrogation, it starts to look like Larry's nodding off. And like he's hypnotized almost in this like, trance-like state. And I think the videotape is eight hours, but they interrogate him for 12 hours. Jesus Christ. No lawyer.

And during the interrogation, Larry cooperates. He seems to be getting along amably with Sergeant Paul Mater. While Paul Mater talks to Larry, Larry seems to be in this trance hypnotized. He does the whole thing of Paul Mater does like, I can totally understand why you did this and you're a victim too, just trying to get him to like. Agree. Yeah. And the whole time Larry's like, I can't, this can't be true.

Like questioning it himself. Like maybe it is. He seems to have no effect or personality just kind of closes his eyes to the ordeal. He seems to start parroting back the suggestions that this guy, that Paul Mater had said to him, which is a big thing about forced confession, confessions is parroting back what that person told, you know, said might have happened, like word for word. Yeah. Yeah.

So it turns, it leads the police to say that they got a confession from him, even though there's no real confession happening. After that night, that same night after 12 hours of interrogation, Delisle is charged with four counts of first degree murder and the deaths of his children and one count of attempting to murder his wife. Police release a statement to the media right away saying that Larry confessed to the intentionally driving his car into the river and killing his children, even though he really didn't say that.

They also say that he attempted to, he also during his interrogation, I guess, says that he had attempted to blow up his house once eight years earlier by leaving a candle burning near a gas leak in the basement while his wife and son were asleep, which I don't fucking, that makes no sense to me. Like why would you confess that unless it's like that is so specific? Well, unless it's planted somehow or there's some. He did it on accident once or he's just putting, if he's in a weird trance, like stay, I mean, who knows what got suggested or what got, what got floated that then kind of popped up

in his mind. I mean, this is a fascinating, that idea of like a coerced confession or false confession. It's such a fascinating thing what the brain can will do and what you start agreeing to when you're under duress and all that stuff. It really does look like he's in a trance or hypnotized. It's really creepy. So weird. So both of these ways of having people die, even if you're a psychopath or sociopath

are so awful. Like having people blow up where you're not guaranteed that everyone's going to die. People get just terribly injured and you have to take care of them for your life. Like you're putting your car with yourself in it. Yeah. That's the part. And you don't know how to swim. You don't know how to swim.

You're fucking in the car. Yeah. Your wife's in the car. Exactly. Yeah. It doesn't make it. It's not easy. It's not the cleanest way to do something.

No. And like if he was intending to do it, did he know it was 30 feet deep and how long it would take for someone to come get the kid? Like they could have all survived for all he knew. They could have hit the thing and floated. Exactly. Yeah. Right.

Or they're, you know, all right. All right. So did he. So quotes from the confession, they take quotes from the confession to give to the media but without the content. So when he's almost like asking, what if I did do, you know, like they take those quotes and put them out there without any context or subtext and context, the public is outraged and can't understand how an average Joe, you know, a store manager at a mechanic place with

no criminal record could do something like this and they are fucking pissed about it. Since the accident, Suzanne is stuck by Larry's side and through the trial she does as well. She leads the public to wonder if she is in on the murder plot, maybe for the fucking insurance money and she can't go out in public without people yelling obscenities at her and her, she's called night and day with threatening phone calls. Fuck. She just lost her four fucking children. That's why they went out of town.

Yeah. That's why they went out of town. Yeah. Now it makes sense. Yeah. You want to get away from all these fucking like. Also, do you want to go back home right now to those bedrooms where your four children are sleeping and see all their toys and shit and know they're never coming home?

Like I don't, I wouldn't want to go home. No way. I don't want to go to a hotel or something and not have to. But then I will devil's advocate and say they got into that death station wagon. I mean. Good point. Just to do that. Good point.

But still. Yeah. Then with the house part, it has to be two people agreeing. Like it has to be. Yeah. I don't know. Oh, anyway. I don't either.

So for months leading up to the trial, the story is regularly in the paper and the news and new details are constantly released, such as the suggestions that the family was in debt there that they argued all the time. And of course, how creepy it is that the family kept the car that Larry's dad shot himself in and had blood stains and so. Yeah. Eventually the confession and interrogation video is thrown out by the trial judge whose name is Robert Colombo, Jr., which is like the best fucking coolest name I've ever heard.

Robert Colombo, Jr. Colombo. He makes goods like pasta sauce. Yeah. We're calling him Colombo now. Okay. Who ruled that the video, which is great, the video was an involuntary statement. So the video's thrown the fuck out.

So he's seeing the same thing you're seeing. Yeah. It's like this. He's just talking. This isn't. This is not a confession. But Colombo rejects the idea of moving the case out of town. So it's been this crazy huge news story.

People are emotionally fucking attached to this story too, right? And five of the people who eventually got picked to be on the jury admitted that they had heard all about the confessions and had been following the case, which how can you not? Yeah. It's like your town. It's your town. It's the biggest story in your town.

But they, pinkies or whatever, that they wouldn't let it affect their decision. Come on. And I'm like Colombo, you just wanted the fucking notoriety. You didn't want it to be moved. Yeah. You wanted to stay in the middle of it. Yeah. It's hard because on one hand you're like, great.

He's like making a fair ruling about the confession tape, but that's fucking insane. That's the whole point of why we move trials is so that you can get a jury that's as unbiased as possible. They're going home that night and the fucking on the news is the trial story. Well, and also these are all the same people who real time watch dead children be pulled from the river. Exactly. They're traumatized themselves.

That affects you. So they need some, you just need someone to be held responsible. Yes. And you have a wound now that you need healed that kind of is, yeah. And that's so many people in that town or even that area. And all their friends who come over for dinner or that they see in the grocery store all want the same thing. So when the case went to trial in June, Wayne County prosecutor Kevin Simo, Simo ski, also

not talking about his fucking career or him at all, except that he seems like a fucking douche. Again, he seems like he's from animal house. Like he's a Dan Ackroyd character, even with the fucking Dan Ackroyd accent thing. It's just so it's just rates on my nerves. I'm not saying anything about him. Can we say, can I just say that Dan Ackroyd was not at an animal house because I don't know.

Yeah, I figured I got that wrong. But he reminds me of one of those. How about a Belushi? Yes. Okay. He reminds me of, he's like a Belushi Ackroyd style, you know, come on guys, I everyone's guilt. You know, he looked like, he just looks so 80s back then it's 80s and Chicago accent

or like that Midwestern accent. Yeah. A lot of flat A's. Yeah. Like, shall we and flashy and pinkie ring? Probably. Okay. I'm going to guess.

I'm going to say yes, the pinkie ring. Okay. He argued that Larry was a troubled man, drowning in debt, feeling burdened by life and his by his wife and kids. Actually in confession tapes, there's a funny Larry's interviewed in it and you can, it's just his voice, you know, from prison, oops, gave that one away. And he says, you know, the, when he was trying to course the confession, he was like, you know, your daughter's crying in the back seat and you just snapped and Larry's like,

I had four children who cried constantly. Yeah. If I were going to kill a snap at a crying kid, I would have, you know, done it. Three kids ago. Exactly. Yeah. You know, that's true. Which was like a good point.

Um, he, the Samoski argued that Larry delivery plan the crash and fully intended to die along with the rest of his family that night. So his thing was that it was like a murder suicide attempt. Oh, wow. Okay. So defense attorney Frank, um, E-man, E-man, E-man, he-man, claimed, he had a blonde page boy, right? It was weird.

Yeah. Um, E-man, I bet, claimed the car was defective, that Delisle was not guilty. He told reporters that the only reason Larry quote confessed to the crime was because police wore him down during the interrogation was again, no attorneys present and basically brainwashed him and gave him a kind of nervous breakdown and which would be very easy to do for a man who's just lost his four fucking children, just lost his children, not as intelligent as the person who's doing the questioning. Yeah.

You know, he says they erased Larry's real memory and planted a new idea into his head, one that held him responsible because also in the question tapes, he's like, yes, I'm a piece of shit. I hate myself for the rest of my life. I killed my children, but not saying he did it on purpose. Like he was blaming himself too. Right. Like he, you know, he was like wanting to take on the responsibility.

Of course he was. Yeah. If it, if, if he didn't do it and it was as he said, he's still, it's still as bad because he's fucked for life. He's fucked for life. Yeah. And his poor wife and everything, you know. Um, okay.

The trial lasted, I just wrote eight. I'm going to think eight days. Eight long minutes. Eight. The trial lasted eight days with more than two dozen witnesses called defective. Testify, including nosy neighbor Beverly Lake, who said that the crash quote, we saw something that was carefully planned. She described the cash, the crash as the most deliberate act she's ever seen and that the

car proceeded in a straight path between the barricades without swerving or deviating and that there were no apparent signs of breaking, which is like, yes, that's what he said. Yes. She thinks she's cooperating what he says and she thinks it proves that he's guilty. Well, she's just, she's just juicing it up and pretending that her vantage point from a building, an 11 story building, however many yards away means that she knows the intention of what's happening. I mean, that's crazy that they let her even say it.

She's like the main witness too. They were like so happy when they got her, which is like, did the defense ripper? I mean, like, I don't think so. I don't know. I know. It's really like, it's really problematic. I'd be like, she's interviewed during this show too. I mean, you want to be like yell at her, but she thinks she did something good.

She thinks she did a good thing. If I would work for the defense, I would have been like, uh, rebut your honor, Beverly, how many pairs of binoculars do you have? 11 pairs of binoculars. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and an expert in accident reconstruction. So there's a whole problem with the way they tested the car too.

Sergeant Weldon Greek Griger testified that the car travel had to travel about 40 feet, uh, at about 40 to 47 miles per hour. So that's how fast it went. Okay. A man named Brian Ross. He was in a boat on the river that night. Oh, sure. So he saw the car go underwater and he testifies that the car went under in a matter of seconds

and that Larry surfaced quickly right above where the car had gone under and that Larry didn't say anything when he got out there. He never went under the water again and he was just sitting there treading water. And Suzanne popped up downriver. So she, you know, panicked or tried to get one of the kids, maybe who knows, popped up downriver and was hysterical when she got up there and said that she was spitting out water and screaming, my babies. And then she tried to go back under water.

So she did what I think most of us would have done. Yes. And he didn't. And that is problematic. He also didn't know how to swim and he, you know, he didn't know how to swim, but he could tread water. Yeah. I don't know.

That's, that's weird. Yeah. That is weird. But also he could also have been in full shock and like he could have been like his hearing was out. Right. He could have just like not known where he was and been completely. Who knows what happened when that, when that car hits the water, he could have slammed

his head on the exterior. I mean, it hit it with enough force to break out the windshield. Yeah. The expert car witness for the prosecution said that nothing had been wrong with the car despite the fact that the choke stuck once in 21 tests on the car. So they tested it 21 times and then one time the, like something happened where it stuck or it was revving up in neutral. Yeah.

Accelerator was still going in neutral. Accelerator that one time in 21, they tested it one more time and then stopped the tests. So that happened like at try 20 and they were like, no, it's fine. Like they wouldn't keep testing it because they didn't want, you know, the outcome of something's wrong with the car. Right. And that doesn't seem fair. No, it doesn't.

And also the arresting officer, he was on the stand, the jury, or the jury stand. He was on the stand, witness stand because on the top of his notepad during a test ride with police, he wrote, quote, accelerator sticking. And then during the trial, he swore under oath that he had no idea why he wrote that. It was just happened to be there. Come on. I know. So Suzanne testified that the car's engine had raced in the past, including sometimes

while they were in the car. One defense witness, mechanic James Coke, well testified that the car's accelerator cable was bent. Its engine mounts were cracked, which pulls the accelerator cable and causes the accelerator to stick. And that happens when that, when, I guess, engine mounts are cracked. Okay. I'm not a car person.

We should become car people. We should. Let's make this into a car park. Let's call it car talk. Perfect. Become men. Yeah. And one of its throttle plates appeared to stick.

So I'm sure that means something to someone. The jury deliberated almost nine hours over two and a half days, which is like three hours a day. You know, it's not the thing we deal. Juries were brought into court, like into the courthouse and outside to stand guard in case of a fucking riot when the, when the verdict got read. Oh my God. Cause that's how crazy the fucking town was about this case.

I bet. You know, um, and the jury found Larry guilty on all counts at sentencing. Colombo said that he had serious questions about whether the proceedings had been fair. So even he was like, I call bullshit on this and probably if it had been a, what is it called the bench trial, which means the judge is the judge, then he probably would have been let off. Wow. When they did try to get one and it was denied.

Right. Because he fucking left it in at the center of the crime. Right. Wait, what? Like he left it in town. Right. So of course they're, I mean, that's the whole point of leaving in town, right? Then all the people in town come and give their opinion.

That's right. Um, and he, so Larry's sentenced to five current terms in life prison. Shit. About five years after a sentencing, Suzanne and Larry divorced. He says it's because he looked so much like their children. It was just too hard for her. She was heartbroken clearly and she's fallen off the radar. Let's not try to find her.

Never. Please. Um, defensive. This is a defensive Frank. Even now wishes that the confession tape had gone into trial and they had been able to see it because it wouldn't, it would have shown how much Larry had been broken down and coerced. So if only they could have seen it, you know, um, and Larry's case has taken to the Supreme

Court, but they denied to hear it and he's exhausted all his appeals. So the only change would have to come if the governor, uh, said so. Really? Michigan. Yeah. And that's the case of Larry Delisle and his poor family. Wow. Yeah.

I mean, that is why I don't watch shows like confession. Yeah. I'm going to fucking think about Larry Delisle and the, did he or didn't he for the rest of my life? Yeah. And it won't matter because his fucking poor children are still dead. They're dead either way. Yeah.

And it won't matter because yeah, it, it, I'm sure there's part of him sit, let's just say best case, Nio. He's the best case. Nio is that he's innocent, but that he was put away. Yeah. And that's the worst. But he still wanted to be put away. Yeah.

Because this horrible thing happened, like it's troubling. I, I love, did they or didn't they cases? But it's when someone didn't get a fair trial or have false confessions or were like fucking, you know, railroaded somehow that those, the ones I can't stand. Yeah. Well, when it's not clear in a place where like you would want, and this is, you know, but what is, why this is such a topic of conversation these days is because we've all kind of like blindly assumed this is done correctly.

This is the place where things are done correctly. Right. It's a court system. You're going to get what you deserve. Yeah. It's all very look, you got a lawyer. This is how it, you know, it's all that shit where it's like, oh no, no, this is one of the most fucked up systems.

There's fucked up shit happens all the time. And we only know now we're, or we're, you know, slowly learning of like that the way police do things and how things can't be allowed and you have to have your lawyer there. That's the reason it's the law. It doesn't make you guilty if you ask her a lawyer immediately. It doesn't make you guilty if you don't cry on camera. Right. Or, you know, but who knows, maybe he is guilty.

Also just the idea that they showed dead children on the news is just like, that should never be allowed. No. It's so terrible. No, never. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. Okay. Well, so my, my case this week is one that I actually started when we were on the European tour and was going to do on that, didn't we have a day off in Stockholm? Wasn't there? Yeah. A little extra time there. Yes.

Yes. So I started it and then had enough time to second guess myself and was like, this is too new. Yeah. And this might actually be a bummer. I think I was particularly worried about the, the shows in Norway and Stockholm. That's right. You were.

Because I was like, they're not going to speak English. I made up all these things of what they were going to do. And then they were like the best audiences who spoke better English than us and were hilarious. Yes. Okay. So anyway, but it turned everything was as it was supposed to be, but I really, really want to tell the story.

We talked about it when it happened real time last year. Oh, I know what you're doing. It's the murder of Swedish journalist, freelance journalist, Kim Wall. Oh my God. And because it's so new and because it's when cases are this new, it's just a series of newspaper articles that everybody's getting their information from. So most of these, most of what I have here are quotes and polls from articles from the BBC News because BBC News was all over this and seemed like they were covering it.

Yeah. They're so British. They're smart, but they're calm. Yeah. They know how to line up. Yeah. And you know. Tea.

Don't ask any questions about tea. Yeah, exactly. So we'll just talk about Kim Wall for a second. So her name was Kim Isabel Frederika Wall and she was born March 23rd, 1987 to her parents Ingrid and Joachim Wall in a close knit community in the small town of Treloborg in southern Sweden. And she graduated from high school. She was obviously super brilliant because listen to this college career that I was like,

God, that's a lot of homework. She studied international relations at the London School of Economics. I bet they're smart. It's hard to get in there. I don't understand numbers. You have to have so many. What do they call those? Numbers.

So many numbers in your pocket. You have to do a lot of what? You have to do a lot of pounds. Yeah. You have your parents have to have pounds and you have to have numbers in your head. She got a bachelor's degree there and then she went to New York and she got into Columbia in the journalism department, which apparently is very, very competitive and really hard to get into.

She graduated top of her class with honors and she had a dual master's degree in journalism. And international relations from Columbia. So this is a very, very intelligent woman who's also obviously very ambitious, knows exactly what she's into. And then they have just a ton of great quotes from her friends, like her classmate Anna Kodria Rado was interviewed by the BBC and said that Kim was very bubbly and warm. She's a kind of person with fantastic stories about all the things, stories that she was working on and you could jump straight past the small top, which like right, that's, that's

what we're all about. She was intellectual, so well traveled, had all these varied interests and she liked quirky and eccentric stories. So if you were at a party, you'd end up passing hours chatting with her. That's so like, yeah, it's just like, oh, I like her. Yeah. She's my friend. She also won an award called the Hansel Meitz Prize, awarded by a German newspaper that

I cannot pronounce. I apologize. It looks like Suddeutsch Zeitung. That's exactly right. Perhaps. I was testing you. Yeah, exactly. Now I can move to Germany.

In March 2016, they gave her an award for the best digital reportage of a series called Exodus, which was her report on climate change and nuclear weapons testing in the Marshall Islands. Wow. That's such smart stuff. Smart stuff that was like, that's not, you know, the Circleville Pumpkin Festival every year, which is my report that I like to give. But this is clearly a woman.

She was about, she was, she reported on like the, the resurgence or the uprising of feminism in China. She would do all these stories that were about like people who are underrepresented, about subculture is a word they use a lot. She was a woman of substance. She really was. And she hauled her ass around the world getting these stories. So she went everywhere.

She seemed very brave. And her friend, Victoria Grieve, told Sweden's Express in newspaper about life in a, oh, she wrote about life in a huge shopping center in Kampala's Chinatown, about Cuba's underground internet providers who download and disseminate new episodes of keeping up with the Kardashians to people in Havana. We made a report together about the wealthy women in New York who voted for Donald Trump. So she was political and she was, but she was also, she did like personality profiles and kind of those pieces of like, meet your fellow humans in the world.

But there are dangers to being a freelance journalist. Everybody names Shruti Gattipati, I think, G-O-T-T-I-P-A-T-I, Gattipati, who wrote in the Guardian. As news organizations grapple with shrinking budgets, they increasingly rely on freelancers who cost less and are willing to take on the attendant risks reporting in places they wouldn't send their staff to. Oh, what? That's scary. Yeah.

Because the competition's fierce and, you know, female freelancers get out there and work really hard to prove that they're the same kind of reporters as anybody else. And they'll go get the stories and that they're willing to do all that, obviously. And they don't talk about the dangers themselves because they want to prove that they can do the job. Yeah. Just sounds like they're complaining or something. Right, exactly.

They don't want to do that. Yeah. They want to keep getting the jobs and then hopefully have that get them, you know, some kind of editorial job or whatever. Sure. So, we'll go to this inventor, Peter Madsen. He's a Danish inventor who became famous around 2008 because he had built what he claimed to be the first privately built, largest privately built submarine in the world.

And it was 56 feet long. It was called the UC-3 Nautilus and, or sorry, he did a series of submarines, the UC-1 Traya, the UC-2 Krakka and the UC-3 Nautilus. Is this like a thing that people do, like make fucking submarines? No, it's not at all. This guy is like, it's, he sounds to me in the way they describe him to be like a low-rent Elon Musk. Okay.

So, basically... Because when they say he made the biggest one, I'm like, well, are there a bunch of smaller ones? I know. That one? He says, was submarine-wise, wouldn't you want to go a little smaller if you're making it yourself? Sure.

Like, if you forget one, you know, like a one screw somewhere and then it's this big old thing because you had to have like a dining room. Yeah. You run out of gorilla glue. Yeah. So, I feel like length is, you should be super concerned with it when it's a submarine. Yeah. You know how men are.

Who am I saying? It is all about size. Okay. So, he, so that's how he kind of bursts onto the scene. He becomes famous, you know, in Denmark for basically being this kind of eccentric inventor. And he, and he does all this stuff with either being fronted, shit, what's that called? Oh, being like, when they pay the money. Venture capitalists.

So, it's venture capitalism. So, he's like, he goes, he's a, you know, like a mover and shaker where he's out there and he's like, I'm this inventor and I can make this and the new waiver, personal submarines or whatever, however he did it. And he gets people to kind of stake. They're like, great. Here's this money. Yeah.

Here's 10 grand. I'm a venture capitalist. And here's my blazer. We are too. Give us fucking 10 grand. Which people? Yeah. We have all kinds of submarine ideas.

But then he has that kind of personality where he's getting out there and he's about, he keeps getting himself in the paper. He's like, he becomes renowned as this eccentric inventor. And after the success of when he first came out with like, I made a submarine and I'm a self-taught engineer. That's crazy. Yeah. Then he partners with architect and former NASA contractor, Christian von Bensten.

And they form a collective called Gopenhagen subordinals. That's all sounds like suborbital, suborbital villains from fucking Austin Powers movies. Yes. It's very much shave your head and put your fingers like up to your lips in a prayer position. They're actually a group of amateur rocket makers and they're working to the aim of launching a manned rocket into space. Oh yeah, me too. They're self-made NASA astronaut like rocketeers.

Calm down, Dex. It's pretty bold when you're like, I didn't go to college for this. But how about you give me $25,000 and I'm going to have a rocket go up. I would rather have a not self-taught engineer make my rocket. Same. I would rather have someone who went to years and years of very hard school. Yeah. I would like an engineer that's gone crazy like because he's so specific and he checks

things 19 times. But because he learned it from people who are smarter than him. I want the guy that's got a bunch of books that he has actually read. I want a guy who's in fucking has student loan debt because he went to so much fucking schooling. That's right. I want a guy that just asked me about me. Oh wait, what are we doing?

Oh, Elvis is right here. Okay, so that collective Copenhagen suborbital, it falls apart in 2014 and the word, it comes out that it's basically because Peter Madsen is not so. He was, they say he was kind of a loner, really fighty. He's the kind of person that would throw a tool at you. Some men said they didn't find him to be intimidating in any way. And then some people said, and usually it was women said that he was. So they, it was, yeah, he was, he was one of those kind of people, like a little monster.

He after the suborbital's group fell apart. He went on to create Rocket Madsen's space laboratory, which sounds like a show on the cartoon network. Totally. And he set that up to come directly compete with his ex partners because he's a dick. He is wrote on the organization's website. My passion is finding ways to travel to worlds beyond the well-known. Well, submarines are pretty well-known dick.

Yeah. I mean, that's just a bay. You've been there. Okay. So in 2015, there's another dispute and this for his new group, the volunteers, because he's doing everything by like crowdfunding and getting people to volunteer to come help them build these things. And these volunteers were like, they were the ones maintaining the Nautilus and they

were like by, we're out of here and everybody walked. And he said in a statement on his website, quote, you may think that a curse is lying on the Nautilus. That curse is me. He wrote that. And then he added, there will not be peace on Nautilus for as long as I exist. So he seems crazy. Kim Wall had reached out to Peter Madsen in 2016 to get an interview with him.

Because obviously at that time is like, who is this crazy submarine and rocket maker? This is like a good story. Yeah. Like, what's your deal? He never got back to her. A year later, she and her boyfriend who was a designer is named Ole, or OLE, they've decided to move to Beijing. So it's the night, August 10th, it's the night of their farewell party.

And she gets a phone call and it's Peter Madsen and he's saying, I want to show you my newest personal submarine, the Nautilus, and he's like, I'll grant you an interview and I'll show you how my submarine works. So she leaves, she goes and meets him at... Leads her party? Yeah. I don't know if the party had started. I don't know what time she got the call.

This is the story part of this story because none of the newspapers really specify that, except that at some point they were, somebody said, they made it sound like it was the same night. Okay. So she was basically like, I'll be right back. Yeah. This will take me three hours. Huge story.

Totally. And it's, and I have to do it. Yeah. Because it's like, she's waited a year. Totally. So she meets him at the harbor and there's a picture and this is the kind of famous on the internet, a person going by on a boat who saw the submarine sitting above the water in the harbor and Peter and Kim were both on it, took a picture of them from the side

of the boat. And that's essentially the last time anyone sees her alive is that moment. So eight hours later, she's not returned. She's not contacted anyone. So her boyfriend calls the police and at 2.30 in the morning reporting her missing saying she went on the submarine with Peter Madsen. They left from here, the same morning, later that morning, authorities are called out to rescue a man whose personal submarine was sinking and of course it's Peter Madsen.

And so the police question the 46-year-old inventor. He liked to describe himself, I should have put this up higher, as an inventor. Me too. Oh my God, I like to describe him as an asshole. I mean, if you call yourself anything, don't let it be, what is that? There's a word for words that are word combos like that. I'm an inventor. I'm gonna make up a new word.

Okay, Willy Wonka, take it easy. He also said that his work was to quote, to challenge the ordinary. So he's just... The ordinary's like, we're good. Yeah, it's fine. You know what? How about just be a normal person? He just sounds like a bullshit artist to me.

Like one of those people that's good at raising money because he can say like buzz phrases that people like. Like a fucking head of a startup. Exactly. And Pete... No offense to heads of startups. Steven just looked up a picture. Will you just tell Georgia what you describe him as?

Oh, I just said he looks like an ugly Daniel Craig. Oh man. Yeah. I could see that easily morphing into ugly. Yes. He had, because he was in the press so much for all his inventions and being this eccentric inventor, he had actually had a biography written about him by a journalist named Thomas Jerseying.

I know you paid for it, right? Well, I don't know. So that guy said that he was angry with God and everyone and that he had a hard time getting along with other people and his lofty ambitions caused him to want to do everything his way. So basically Dick. And also clearly that's what other people that worked with him said, people who are having to walk off the job or like breaking up entire, you form this huge collective and then everyone's like a year later, like not working with you anymore.

Not like us. That's right. Steven's been here the whole time. He's been here most of the time, half the time. Yeah. Okay. So they, when they're questioning him, he says he doesn't know where she is. The last time he saw her, she was alive that he, before his submarine sank, he'd actually

dropped her off very close to where he had, they had originally met and that she was fine last time that he saw her. So everyone, it was, he said she went to a restaurant at 1030 and that was the last time that he saw her and he drove away in his little submarine and then terrible things happened to him. So they end up pulling up the sunken submarine and they test, they go over it, the forensics people find blood smears and they match it to Kim Wall's DNA. Just like that.

Yeah. And so there suddenly they're like, here's the thing, Peter, her wires, her blood on the inside of your, if you, if she walked off fine, then what happened? So then he changes his stories, his story singular and he says that actually what happened was that she was coming out of the hatch and he was holding it open for her and it slipped and it cracked on her head and it killed her because it fractured her skull. And so he panicked and buried her at sea. And they're like, yeah, this doesn't, this doesn't track either.

Then on August 21st, a passing cyclist spots a washed up torso on an island southwest of Amager. I'm not, I'm not, right? A poor cyclist. That poor person. And the DNA test identifies that it is, it belongs to Kim Wall. A post-mortem examination finds 15 stab wounds, mostly on the lower part of this torso. Oh my God.

Yeah. So then, like 10 days later, Copahican police investigator Jens Mohler Jensen announces the police have found a bag that was submerged in the bay with Kim Wall's clothing. So it's a shirt, skirt, socks and shoes, along with a knife weighed down by pieces of lead. And then around noon that day, they find her legs and her head also in a bag, also weighted down. So then he changes his story. And he says, because they say, so there's the skull, there's no skull fracture.

So your whole thing, if she died because you dropped the hatch on her head is a lie. And he goes, no, no, no, you're right. Here's what happened. I was, we were up above the water, but she was down in the submarine. I was up on deck and there was a carbon monoxide leak and she died of poison of that. And I panicked. Which is so stupid because like, that's a better story than you hitting her head. Like that makes you seem like, so why would you start with hitting her head?

Because he didn't think through the fact that saying hitting her head and then when they, he doesn't think they're going to find the body parts. And he's not questioning any of that. He's just like, they're going to believe whatever I say, she's gone, which they're never gone. So it's kind of like, yeah, they don't believe it, there's no way to prove it unless they find the body. Right.

And why would you think they wouldn't when this is like, then it's their job and they're going to want it? Idiotic. So, so then the test comes back and of course there's no, there's no sign of carbon monoxide in her lungs and they're like, it's not happening. So he, he denies that he intentionally killed her, but he does admit to dismembering her and throwing her into the ocean. He calls it burying her at sea.

Jesus. Psychopath. Insane. So on January 16th, 2018, Peter Madsen is charged with murder, indecent, indecent handling of a corpse and quote, sexual relations other than intercourse of a particularly dangerous nature, because when they, they got tests, tests back and there were stab wounds inside the genital area as well as outside. So his trial begins on March 8th, 2017.

I feel so bad for the boyfriend. Oh, it's horrible. That he like is probably blaming himself for not going with her. That's not what she was like, though. That's what she did stuff like that all the time. That was standard fare and you're like, I'm in business mode. Of course I'm going to go by myself to this place and he's an eccentric, he's an eccentric engineer.

He's just a regular person that's been in the news. He's well known around Denmark and totally would not expect that. Yeah, he's not some like, it's not some weirdo that she picked from under a rock. This is the guy that's been in the news for like almost 10 years. Seriously. So she probably, yeah, she felt safe. Like maybe he's weird, but she's, that's part of the story is that he's weird. So when the trial begins, prosecution claims that Peter Madsen tortured Kim Wall before

killing her by cutting either cutting her throat or strangling her. And they said that he believed, they believed that he had psychopathic tendencies. One reason is because they found snuff films on his computer. So he was watching really violent horrible porn. And also their people came and testified at his trial that said they had seen him watch videos of decapitation and choking to the point of his fixation. So he, they knew that he was like a violent creep. Like the people around him like showed up and were like, yep, I've got a story.

Also what kind of lunatic do you have to be to watch things like that where people can see you watching them? That's what it like. You think it's so fucking normal that you are finding people knowing about it. It's kind of like you see that every once in a while, people just looking at porn on a plane where it's like, oh, you're. So did you think this is normal? You're desensitized and you're, you're so addicted that you're just like, fine, I just,

it's what I need. And also it's like, what are you going to do? Watch porn on a plane. And then watching porn did not masturbate. Just just watch it is so creepy. I mean, is it's there's so many angles to like watch porn and I'm fine with it, but. Okay. So anyway, when they questioned him about the dismemberment aspect of the murder, he stated

on the stand, I don't see how that mattered at the time as she was dead. He said that in court. I can do whatever I want to her dead body because she's dead. Like why are people upset? The body is essentially the message she was sending. So of course on April 25th, Peter Madsen was this year. Uh, yeah, it just happened. It just happened.

Holy shit. I mean, like the murder happened at the end of last year and then the case, that's why I didn't want to do it. Yeah. Is because the case was like. No, I think it's smart. I mean, people really wanted you to do this story. So I think it's better that you say it over the podcast.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, cause it would have been dead fucking silent. I mean, it's the worst. It's sad. It's sad because it's this amazing young woman who was genius, right? Yeah.

It's like super brilliant. Had this great career, like kind of person with friends and yeah. And had. Yeah. It was just like a lover of life. Yeah. I think I who just clearly like thought he could just kind of do whatever he wanted and make shit up.

Like clearly thinks he's smarter than everybody else. Yeah. Um, but the cool thing is, so when he's convicted on April 25th on all three charges, he sentenced to life in prison, which we know in Scandinavia is very extreme. Yeah. But they also placed him in this thing called for barring, which is a type of preventative custody with a no time limit for prisoners believed to pose a significant danger to others. So it's more than, it's, it's more than the average.

Um, they're the, in fact, that's the harshest penalty in Danish law. They're saying like, even if you only get 20 years, we're keeping you in this place to make sure that even if 20, if 20 years comes up and you're better, you're not better, you get, you have to stay in there longer. Yeah. I think that's makes total sense. Well, it's, it's the thing of there's their life sentences 20 years and they're saying no time limit.

Right. Yeah. It's the harshest thing you can get. And usually the only time anyone gets it is if there's multiple deaths, but they gave it to him on the, in this case. So he is said that it said he's going to appeal this sentence in Copenhagen High Court in September. Well, fuck him. Uh, let's all go to Sweden.

Let's see. I don't want to go. Right. But let's all go to Sweden. Why not? Yeah. No, I'm kidding. I'm making it seem like I.

Oh, I see. You're using his excuse. After Kimwall's death, her family and friends started something called the Kimwall Memorial Fund. This is amazing, uh, to fund and support freelance female reporters, especially ones that are doing stories about subculture, like trying to give voice to the voiceless. Um, and in October, 2017, uh, she was posthumously nominated for pre Europe is outstanding achievement award for journalist of the year.

And on November 26th, a Swedish public television aired a documentary about her life entitled the woman who wanted to tell. Um, I hope that, I hope we can see that over here at some point. Um, this was one of the most gruesome and closely watched cases in Scandinavian history. Holy shit. And that is the murder of Kimwall. Oh, Kim. Yeah.

Sorry. Kind of intense. Very short though. Like there's not as much of that, the detail that usually happens, but it's just, it's just so, it was so crazy to see that unfolding to have like, then they found this and then they found that in the news and I remember seeing that picture of her face in your old apartment when we first, oh, because we talked about it when this story broke. That's right.

Everyone was sending it to us. Yeah. And it was kind of like, wait, wait, wait, it was so, you know, it's like a good story Unexpected, so sinister, disgusting, we don't believe or trust this guy. Yeah. Well, that's really sucky. Yeah. Also, I can't remember if I said that or not, but the cops did find that he sunk his

own submarine. Oh, sure. So he was trying to hide all the, they found a saw on the submarine, they found a screwdriver on the submarine. He had no explanation as to why he needed either of those on the submarine. I mean, like, you think someone bought that submarine is now like, well, I don't care what happened. I'm going to, I'm going to drive it.

Like how people buy houses or people have died in them or station wagons. Yeah. Just keep it. Just keep it. Yeah. Just keep it. We don't have the money to buy a new submarine. Here's, we get the family into the submarine.

This is a thing I wanted to say during yours, but I didn't want to be so insanely disrespectful, but there was also the element of like, what if it's now the haunted station wagon? Well, that's what they say in the confession tapes is fucking Beverly Lake, who's just the miss know it all says, I just asked, there was this movie out of the time called where the car killed everyone called Christine, you know, and it was like, well, that doesn't really fit this. Also go to bed. Also, don't talk about that shit.

I get to talk about on my dumb murder podcast, but like if you're, she says like, and I was joking and I know this isn't funny and it's just like, well, then why are you saying it? We're the last people that are allowed to say that. Fair enough. Do you want to go first? Sure. I started watching it.

So everyone knows and I can't, I don't think we talked about it, but very tragically, Anthony Bourdain committed suicide a couple of weeks ago, right around the same time that Kate Spade committed suicide, which, you know, the thing that I kept reading on social media that I think is really interesting is that everyone assumes that if you are rich or if you are successful, that means you're happy and that is absolutely not the case. As someone who's lived in Los Angeles for a long time and met lots of famous slash, you know, successful people, I can assure you it has no bearing and sometimes it's the opposite.

It's what makes people really unhappy. Or they're like, I have this and I'm still not happy and it makes you even more unhappy because you realize that that isn't going to solve your problems. And they interpret that there's something inherently wrong with that one, it's super tragic. So I had never, I always heard of Anthony Bourdain. I always assumed that was an area I wasn't interested in because it was cooking, like I kind of took myself out of like, cooking, not interested. I mean, but I love chef's table, but I always assumed is because the way they made it was

so filmic and like, he doesn't really do cooking. No, I just assumed I knew what it was. I do that all the time, like, oh, here's the show. So I started watching parts unknown and it is, it's parts unknown is on Netflix. And I highly recommend it. And this also kind of does actually tie in a little bit with Kimwell. I think it's so important if you just try to travel, try to like go outside of your normal town or state or area where you grew up, try to be around people that are different than

you, try to eat food that is weird to you, try to be less comfortable, live less comfortably and experience the world more. I think it's so important and it seemed to me that's kind of what Anthony Bourdain was all about. That's exactly right. It's so cool because he would just be in these places. Like the first episode is Myanmar, Myanmar, which used to be Burma. And I had no idea about any of it.

Every single word he said in that episode was an education to me. And the fact that they went and shot it was like, yay, no, I don't have to go there and I don't have to eat fish. But second hand, it's such an incredible experience to kind of open your eyes to like how other people live. And I don't know, I recommend it so highly. It feels like legitimately enriching and then it also makes his death really, really sad because he doesn't understand.

And this is the truth of it. We don't understand what we're bringing to the table. We don't understand what people take away from us. Or we feel overburdened by what people, expectations people have of us too. Yeah, but that's made up too. Like that you make up expectations. You don't know what people really fucking think. But you don't know what they think good and you don't know what they think bad.

But I think there's a certain personality type that always assumes it's bad when actually it's amazing. And like just sitting there watching it going, now I love this guy and I love this, I love his life philosophy. He's amazing. He definitely introduced, he definitely brought cultures to people who had never had an experience from that culture through the best possible way, which is their food. Yeah, that's great.

Well, and he like, he talks to all these real people. It's not, he's just so cool. He's just a really cool person, obviously to hang out with and eat with. He wasn't, because I think the foodie people can be a bit distancing because it's like a big race to name the cheese or whatever, and you're just like, I don't fucking know. And it didn't seem like that was his deal. He was more appreciative and kind of like, look at this. Well, what I loved about what he always did in every episode would like, you know, lots

of episodes. One of the things he would do, he'd go to the nicest restaurant in this city. He would go to the farmer's market. He would go to this cafe or whatever, but he would also always go to someone's home and have like their grandmother make him a meal that they always ate. Like, you know, this is what the peasants ate, or this is the, you know, that everyone here grew up eating this food. And so that was always really eye-opening, going to someone's home, meet the family,

and not just from a like restaurant point of view or... Yeah. He went to a place in Quebec, in Montreal, where they make this sandwich that's so crazy looking because it's like a pile. It looks like it was like spam with a pile of bologna, and then they fry it. Oh my God. And there's mustard and then maybe a cheese on there or something, and you're looking at it, it's one of those places where you can't order, you can't go like no mustard

for me or whatever. Sure, yeah, yeah. You have it as they make it. And he bites into it and he's just like, that's delicious. Yeah. And then you're just kind of like, it's that thing. It's the appreciation of, I sent you guys on Twitter, or I added you guys on Twitter when he goes to Waffle House with the cook, with a chef who's explained to him why Waffle

House is so great. Totally. I think that's a great video if you can find it. Yeah. It's super good. I love that. Yeah. Well, actually it's funny because one of my loves is going to lunch by myself.

I really love, I did it yesterday after one of our meetings, there was a place that I had been, I'll get into these fucking hour long like scroll sessions of a hashtag of a restaurant on Instagram and just look at all their food, I'll go look at their menu, I pick out what I would order. And I did that and realized the night before I realized on our way home the other day that I was right by there. And so I went in and had lunch alone and read about my murder for this week and just kind of enjoyed myself.

And that's just like this lovely little pleasure I have. I don't like going to see movies alone. I don't like any of that shit. I just want to go sit and eat a really cool order, whatever I want and have this nice lunch alone. It's kind of one of my favorite things. Awesome. And I also wrote a movie with my dad because my dad spent the night last night and he and

I actually got drunk and we watched, so my uncle Michael Hardstark was an actor way back in the like 70s and he is in a horror fucking campy as shit horror movie. It was Brook Shield's first movie called Alice Sweet Alice. Yes. Wait, is Betty Davis in it? Is she? Oh, you would know. If you watched it, you would know.

Okay. Well, maybe. Well, it's really campy. I feel like it has, it should be one of those campy horror movies that everyone watches, but it's not for some reason. But you can get it, I don't know, online somewhere or like Amazon or one of those places. He's in that movie. Well, he, so what happened was he was going to be like the assistant detective.

There was like a main guy, was like this famous actor who was going to be the detective. And that guy got a fucking role on Broadway. So he latered off the fucking show and my uncle Michael Hardstark, who looks like a cross between what's the guy from Zodiac who's so cute? Jake Gyllenhaal. No, the other one. Oh, Ruffalo. Ruffalo.

Yes. He looks like a more pockmarked, like Colombo style Ruffalo. Yes. He's in it and it's great. So everyone go watch Alice Sweet Alice, also get drunk with your dad on Rosé. It's so much fun. My dad is so hilarious and sweet. I love it.

Yeah. That's really good. That's a nice father's day. Yeah. It's Marty. Did you see his tweet? About Starbucks? No.

What did he say? He wrote a tweet saying, I'm going to start using the name Marty at Starbucks instead of Martin to see if there's any marinos working at Starbucks. Oh, no. He's like on board with this. That means that makes sense. Yeah. Come on.

Yeah. That's so hilarious. Yeah. So happy Father's Day, Marty. Oh, my dad's not on board with anything like you. They're going to meet one day. It's going to be so fun. Oh, they'll have some beers.

Yeah. Thanks for listening, you guys. You're fucking sweet angel babies. Yeah. Thanks for everything. And, you know, stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.

Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Oh. Want two cookies? Yeah. What else?