My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 127 - Our Beautiful Rat King

Episode Date: June 28, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover the murder of Angela Samota and Finland’s Lake Bodom murders.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. Hello. Hi, friends.

Hey. Welcome. To my favorite murder. This is a podcast that asks and answers the questions. There's like four questions. Yes. You don't need to know what they are right now. Just know that within this next, what will probably be a one hour and a three minutes.

Oh, I was going to say 32 minutes. No, it's going to be four and a half hours. And each hour will answer one question. One question. It's going to be, it's going to be a lot like the Sphinx's Riddle. What walks on four legs in the morning, Bleedoo blue, whatever, but more interesting than that. Less ancient. It is so dull.

There's no video games back then. There's no gossip. Everyone just built pyramids. Boring. Pyramids. Boring. Boring. Boring.

Until we find out there are spaceships that are going to take us off this hell's planet. Right. Or brought us here because we all did something bad on a different planet. And now we're really. This is jail planet? Are you kidding me? That's a fucking burning trash heap of a fucking, what did I call it on Instagram really, or a trash fire top of Rat King.

Oh. That would smell so bad. You know what a Rat King is. Yeah. Hey everyone, if you don't know what a Rat King is. Google that shit. Go Google it and look at a photo. Google image that shit.

Yeah. And don't try to be intellectual about it and read about Rat Kings. You just get that picture right in your head. And then use your imagination. Also find out for us if they're, go on to Snopes and find out if they're real or fake. It's real. Is it real? There's photos of it.

But you know how these days we live in a time where every single thing has now been proven false by Buzzfeed in some way? Not our beautiful, beautiful Rat King. That's the only real thing left in this world. The truth, the Rat King will rise up and save us all. That's right. Hurry the fuck up Rat King. Rat King, my God.

Pick one direction to go please. Everyone together. Together, they're facing the wrong direction. Together. Okay. We, okay. So we have breaking news. We don't often have breaking news on the show, but this is about as breaking as the news

can get for us. And it's the insane, incredible, actual survival story of a murdery now. That's right. And I mean, it blew me away. I started crying. Of course. It was, so you guys, I'm sure you know at this point and there's, and it's, you can find it on Twitter and if you go to Billy Johnson's Twitter or our Twitter, my favorite

murder, my favorite murder, the story is on there of this woman who fucking stayed sexy and she fucking Cincinnati right in Cincinnati. She was so aware of her surroundings, it's 11 o'clock in the morning. It's not, and she's walking her dog and she's nine months pregnant and she notices some fucking strangely acting dude and keeps a fucking eye on him. And he fucking comes at her and she, she fights him off and screams and she, to me, the smartest thing she did was when she knew he was following her, there was no mistake. She headed toward where there were people.

She headed toward a pool, a public pool. And that's when he started chasing her. What I love about it too is that she wasn't even sure he was following her yet, but she was like, I'm not going that way. I'm going towards where there's people because like he wasn't even creeping her out yet. Yeah, it was just like head toward people and when he started following her, like chasing her, she said, I don't know you, like stay away from us. She has to started yelling at him before she was even aware that he was attacking her,

which I think is another pepper spray for us to apologize later. It's like this person is making you uncomfortable when you're by yourself and you're a woman and you're not liking what's going on. You can start fucking screaming. It's okay. You get to say whatever you want to get that person away from you and also that establishes it's like that thing instead of saying help or whatever people when they say yell fire. I think what she did was so brilliant of going like, I don't know you get away from me so

that the people that were nearby could hear that this was not, oh, could it be boyfriend and girlfriend? Like, you know, that thing that keeps people from taking actions. They're like, I don't want to get involved. Who knows what those two are doing? It's like she declared what was going on and then tried to fight him. He punched her and then people were there to pull him off and she took a fucking beating and we've all seen the pictures.

It's amazing. And she, and she, the baby's fine. She's fine. She's fine. The dog ran home. I love that they let, and also the dog is fine and it's like, you get that boy. Don't go home. I mean, I guess I get it, but we're so, she said in the, you know, she was interviewed

by the news and she gave this podcast credit for what she had in her mind of fighting him off and whatever. I mean, it was a really lovely thing that she said that, you know, somehow this podcast has something to do with her survival, which even just the mere suggestion of that is amazing to us. And it's so, it's like, no, you're the reason and we're fucking like, it is, this is wild. When I was reading it, I was like, this is surreal that this little podcast that we just started for fun has become, you know, and this happens on a fucking daily basis, but

being amazed at what it's become and how many people it's inspired to go back to therapy or to go back to school for forensics or to, you know, to connect with their sisters and stuff like it's just like and meet new friends and do these beautiful people in their community. That's right. And fight fucking assholes off. And it's what, it's what you guys are making it with yourselves. It's like, fine to give us credit.

Of course, we love it and want it, but it's what you're bringing out of yourselves. It's what you're seeing in yourself and then keeping in your own mind. There are people who hear it and they don't, you know what I mean? It's what you're doing for yourselves. And I think that's the coolest part of it is like, you know, that it's bringing something out of you that is, that is about you. Right, we are so happy to be part of this community, but that's just all we are as part of it and to talk at you for two and a half hours a week.

And so since this woman, she didn't want her name mentioned in this, the press release that we read. Yeah. And so let's please respect her privacy. But as many people know, and she has posted, she has an Etsy store called Spoons and Such. Right. So cute. Spoons and Such.

But then I looked at it and it's like the most gorgeous homemade jewelry, not homemade. That sounds like macaroni on a fucking string. No, no, no, no. It's not homemade in that way. No, no. It's like handcrafted. Yes. Gorgeous fucking pieces of jewelry.

It's incredible. Um, friend of the show, Billy Jensen, the true crime reporter, he sent me the link because he wanted to make sure we knew it existed and then sent a picture of a bookmark that he bought that said, I fell asleep here and it's a spoon that folds over the book page. I love it. It's so cool looking. It's so cool. Yeah.

The jewelry is gorgeous. I'm going like, I don't buy myself nice things and I'm going to buy myself a nice thing. And she actually made a note. You'll see the note on there, but on that Etsy shop, she was like, please give me a break because I make all this myself. She was like, thank you, but the, I love the idea that you could get some, do some early Christmas shopping and then support a fellow Merino and help her pay some of those medical bills.

Right. Or you know what? If you want to go wider, go to rain and you can donate there or AINN and, you know, to survivors of domestic abuse and violence and kind of makes you feel great. Last week, I donated money to the ACLU in my mom's name. Yes, I did. Because she was Republican, did I tell you this? And I was in the worst because before that, I was so depressed.

Really? I was so depressed. And I was like, this, I just feel hopeless and this is horrible. And then I just kept thinking about my mom and how angry I am at her, you know, because it's a personal thing because everything's her fault. She voted and she's the one vote that made him win. So I just donated money and put it like it as a gift and gave her email address. So she's definitely going to get an email that says, thank you for this donation and

Janet to the ACLU, but she, I mean, the ACLU is she must like that. But they're for good. They're for the best, but people, but they don't understand. She doesn't understand. Yeah. You know what? Though good. It's not for us to make anybody understand.

Let's protect ourselves. Let's make ourselves feel better. Let's take that's brilliant, small step action. It felt like a really positive vindictive thing that I could do. And I was really, it definitely made me feel better after a hundred percent. And just a little, with a tiny jab, why not jab, jab around if you feel like it instead of screaming in her face about why she's killing the world. Which people can't hear at this point, but that it really is a thing.

If you are upset, if you're depressed, if you're freaking out, help someone out. If you're, if you're broke and you can't donate money, phone calls, um, letter writing, just take action, make a little list, do three things, make sure they're for other people and do them anonymously and you can build the good feeling back. And then, you know, they, everyone loves to quote that Mr. Rogers, you know, look for the helpers quote, be a helper, take it a step further, because I think, I think in this like social media, Twitter world, we live in, we're like, I'm the queen of retweet it.

Now you go do it. You know, that's how I mean, I am, um, but I think it's even better. It feels even better when you can be the person that's doing it and not just the person going, oh good, I'm comforted because there's a helper, like, yeah, taking action in even the smallest way makes a huge difference. I love that. And stay fucking sane. Stay sane.

Keep your feet on the ground. Don't burn out energy with rage or any of those things. Just focus, you know, protect yourself. Yeah. Mental health. We're gonna, we're gonna need our mental health because it's going to be a long fucking fight. Yeah.

That's right. Um, speaking of justice, did we speak of justice? We did. We all speak of justice. So all these fucking cold cases now, after a fucking golden state killer, now all these genealogy websites, there's, there's three in the news recently in like the past month that have been fucking solved because of, uh, ancestral DNA. Yes.

So it's fucking incredible. Christie, uh, Mirac, who was a teacher who got murdered in 1992, um, the 1986 rape and murder in Tacoma of Michela Welch, who was 12 years old. And then in British Columbia, Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cullenberg in 1987 were murdered. And those have all been solved by fucking familial DNA. Yeah. So everyone, we all need to go to the site, which is GED match. That's the site where all of these have been sent to because it's public.

Oh yeah. So you can't do it at 23andMe. Yeah. Right. So now I'm like, let's off. How many of you now sends their fucking DNA to GED match? Like how, maybe this some second or third cousin, you'll never even know that if they're not going to call you.

You've never even met that third cousin and they're probably an asshole. Maybe he's a murderer and you fucking helped just by putting your DNA in there and you'll, you'll never even know. Yeah. I'm a company. It's the company's called, uh, Parabon Nano Labs, which is the company that's been taking that DNA and testing it and like handing it over to the, um, police. Great.

Do the invest. It's like, it's so. How much money did they give you to say that? Like, they gave you a lot of things. No, that's amazing. It's, it really does feel like the wall is crumbling. It has that early 2000s, you know, DNA, like ding, ding, ding. How exciting.

I mean, not exciting. How terrified are a bunch of murderers right now? Yeah. Well, it's like, yeah, the net is finally closing in on some people. I can't wait till some guy just goes to, and is like, I did this thing you're going to find out because I'm freaking out about this DNA. Like I just did it. That would be amazing.

That would be. I'm just really excited. And it's, and that guy is the Zodiac killer. Ladies and gentlemen. Oh my God. He's only 97 years old. Well, there's this other fucking case. The Doodler?

No. Oh yeah. That's right. The Doodler. They're close on that one. The last I read. Okay. Well, no, this is the fucking dude.

This is the fucking. This is the fucking dude. This is the guy, the old, older man killed himself. I had no clue who he was when they ran his name through, it was like 2002 when they ran his name through the database to find out who he was because they couldn't get any prints or anything. It came up. His name, Joseph Newton Chandler, the third came up as a boy who had died in 1945 at eight

years old. Yes. So he stole this fucking guy's identity and they're trying to figure out why and who he was and why he was on the lam. And everyone of course is like, he's the Zodiac because he was in fucking Napa at the time. Right. Right. Yeah.

He's the bear. Yeah. But we don't know yet. I love that. That's the fun part that it's going backwards like that. Yeah. Where it's like, we got the guy. Now we have to figure out where, like match everything up.

Totally. It's fascinating. No, it's a, it's such an exciting time. Not only because of that and all of those things, but also because somebody tweeted a picture. A picture. Oh no. What?

On Twitter. Oh God. What is it? It is. Okay. I'm going to say the people. It's a, it's a podcast called boundary issues. Okay.

Never heard of them. Sorry guys. Um, and it doesn't really, sure, shoot. It doesn't describe. Did you just accidentally say sharp? I did say sharp, but that's not what I was trying to say. They're out of Boston. The description on their Twitter handle is like brunch with your gal pals mixed with

the worst anime you've ever loved. So whatever that, that, that means boundary cast. Okay. They were apparently looking for visual representation of my voice. And so they were looking on Google images and they found a stock photo of me. What? Um, and this is from. You a stock photo model?

No. For some reason this is a stock photo. Maybe somebody at this company was like, yeah, we got to get on this. We're going to make a million dollars off this picture. This is from when I was 25 and I did the Bob Hope Young comedian special. He was one of my first TV sets ever. Oh my God. She's handing it to me.

Wow. You are everything I've ever hoped you would be. Okay. Look at those speed eyebrows. Those eyebrows. Yeah. Those are, I've been sitting in front of the mirror plucking for fucking days. Those are, they're straight up Myrna Loy style.

I have OCD and I can't handle myself. The hair is Midwestern soccer mom. Well, but. It's like you're a goth mid set, mid, mid, I'm going to stop you there. Yeah. It was 1995. Okay. So the hair rules.

I know. I had the time. I had the hair. I had the hair. And then you put it up in little clips and you twist them and shit. If I can put a headband in short hair to make sense, people are like, who is she? Pomade. Why are you using pomade?

But here's what I love the most about this. You look beautiful. A stock photo. Thank you. Here's, it's the, the key to my beauty is in that picture. I have, my lip liner is so far outside my natural lip line. I'm going close up right now because I have a cold store that I'm trying to cover. I see it.

Can you see it? So all of the, my lips, I have like implant lips in a way that I've never had before or since. Well, now we know. Oh yeah. You don't. Well, now we know you need. I need implant.

You know, guess what though? It's too late. No, dude. We can make you look like this again. But everyone's like, but wait, I don't get it. Like it's like a weird this because you look, isn't that weird how different that makes my face looks? Such a little baby.

I was a real baby. So cute. Can I tell you something else that people found? Listen. Uh-oh. Is it bad? No. Well, I don't know.

You tell me. Oh, someone in the Facebook group, which I totally secretly stock, found a clip of you on like Jenny. What was her name? Jenny McCarthy? Show. Her sitcom. And a tattoo parlor.

That's right. That's, that's probably. Oh no, I think I'd say that's like two years after this stock photo. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's like a friendship. Yeah. And you're screwing the piercer.

Yeah. You say it. I watched it and I didn't tell you. I was like, yeah, there's a hand because I already found the wings clip. Right. They'd always do something with my hair and the hair people would get their hands in my hair and be like, I can actually do something with this. So the wings clip, I have really big country Western hair and everyone's like, look at

this wig. And I'm like, that's my hair. It's just hairspray in my hair. You can do anything. I love it. I'm like, Karthi, one, I, they, it's like, um, it's kind of the Bjork 90s look where it's not naughty knots all over my head. That's right.

And if you look good on anyone but Bjork, no, I mean, you just have a bald head. Yes. You're bald. And I think they did it because it looked funny because I really, you know, punk, you know, punk, but also I'd like, when you have a round face, it's like, clearly she shouldn't have, she shouldn't have that. Um, whatever. I mean, that's, this is one of the many reasons why I hate television.

Yeah. I mean, our new sitcom, I mean, our new podcast, our new podcast called, let's talk about my hair in the nineties and the drugs that I was on. There's something about that picture though. The idea that someone dug that up, there's something so delightfully terrible. It's like somebody getting your old yearbook, but like, why is it a stock photo now? Why are they using it for stock? I know that I cannot explain to you.

It's good. It's pretty amazing. Um, what else? Do we have any other business? I don't. Uh, we have a fan cult. So are we posting this week on it finally on the fan cult? I don't mean finally as in you, I mean, Steven, I mean, finally as in us, we're getting together.

So we're posting the PO box unboxing video on the fan cult and a live episode. Which one is it? Milwaukee. Minneapolis. Minneapolis. Night one. Oh shit. Remember.

Remember. Or if you don't go to my favorite murder.com, join the fan cult, you get a t-shirt and an enamel pin and you can join all the forums and you get a bunch of stuff like that. You get to join another little club. It's the club inside the club. Right. Um, and as soon as I figure out how to join it, I'm going to start posting on the forum. But my dad is doing it in the meantime for me.

Marty is standing in for you. We'll try to get all the families, families involved. My sister would probably lurk. Yeah. Um, for sure, but she wouldn't want anyone to know she was there. Um, and yeah, those live shows I think are, people are going to be excited because we've been, been asked for a long time. So we're going to start putting those up, you know, on the reg.

And then of course, all kinds of wonderful content, uh, for you recipes and, um, videos, songs, yeah, poems, Steven's going to write a poem every week. Oh, we haven't actually, you know, it needs to go up ASAP, Steven, a picture of your new haircut. Oh yeah. And it is a look that actually is not that different than me and the stock photo in 1995. And it is a look as in like LEWK, like it's got, it's got fucking attitude. Talk to us about the haircut, Steven.

You know, I mean, it was, I feel like he's going to, no, I know it's a very, I was very self-conscious thing where I think I've seen a lot of photographs of myself with the huge beard and the, and the long hair and I was like, you know what, it's time to, it's time to freshen up. So yes. I'm back to the mustache and, uh, yeah, just a nice little, it's getting hot in LA, so. You deserve it. You deserve a nice, you know, take care of yourself.

It looks really good. It makes you feel good. It looks really good with the headphones on. Yes. We're going to get the same haircut. All the time. Yeah. It's podcasting here.

Mustache too. It's more realistic. Mustache. Absolutely. I'll just stop shaving. Yeah. I can do mustache. I'd say in four days.

Well, you look great. Uh, yeah. We support you. We support your look, but also you need to start putting some content on the fucking fan cult. Stephen. Now that we got the compliments out of the way, what the fuck, get your shit together. Come on.

Get, put your personal shit on there. Sam. Um, are we right? Yeah. You're raising your hand. Uh, Ms. Hartzart. Yes. Karen.

Yes. Ms. Kilgara. Just this one thing. And this is local news. Okay. This is, um, the local news segment of the show. Los Angeles. Los Angeles.

Hold on. Are we going to talk about the very first episode? We ever did. It's called episode number one. Oh yeah. We talk about, like the first thing we talk about is a fucking dude who gets in a car accident on a freeway right near us and it severs half of his body and lands on a fucking, what's it called?

Uh, Bill, what do they call it? The freeway sign and exit sign. It's the freeway and exit sign. So that's like, it's like a head of the theme. And now episode 100 and what is this, 20, 27, 127, we're getting back to that same thing that we started in episode one. Because, um, the 110 freeway in Los Angeles during rush hour, okay, asshole. This is like closing down the sidewalk in New York City.

Yeah. Like, I can't even explain how much this is not okay. It's like shutting down an entire airport. Yeah. Because this city sucks. And this city is sucks. It's planned terribly. There's never not traffic.

It's crazy. And the 110 is basically how everybody gets downtown, everybody. So and to get to work, if you're on the west side, if you're on the east side, if you worked on who nobody cares, it's main artery. This guy this morning during drive time gets up onto one of those freeway signs. Now, I like what he and a couple of people wrote this too. He was, he's basically saying pollution is killing, let's stop killing each other and get rid of pollution.

Definitely. Great message. 100%. And he was at least entertaining and funny. Yeah. He was doing funny stuff. Uh, he was shirtless with some jean shorts. Of course, all the cops and firemen had to go up there and be like, dude, you have to

get down. He's a protester. He's not doing it. They put those big crazy stuntman air pillow things underneath the sign so that when he gets off, he has to just jump off and or like if he, if he does jump, then he can't hurt himself. Yeah. Like if he's crazy and he's going to, uh, it's going to be a bad suicide situation.

But instead what he does is he kind of scuttles away from the cops that have climbed up onto this fucking sign. Which also like, A, they're fucking risking their own lives and they have so many other real emergencies to be tending to at that fucking moment. Yeah. So fuck this guy. Especially in downtown. Yeah.

And it's 8 30 in the fucking morning. All these poor people have to go to fucking work. Oh, I mean, I love, I think pollution is a terrible thing too, but you're, you're not, it's the stories about you being a dick now, not about pollution. Well, because yeah, it's a good attention getter, but it, the shockwaves also, if you do something like that and you shut down a freeway in LA, I, I'm surprised people didn't try to kill him. I mean, that's the kind of shit where like road rage is a real thing here and people,

they, they were, it wasn't just like, Oh, some cars can go by on the side, entirely shut down the one, poor people that live on those streets, like near USC, but here's what's genius. Like scuttles away from the cops when they're like, you have to get down and then he goes over to the side and does a fucking backflip off of the street sign as if he's at the public pool. Yep. And you know, he's like, I'm going to prison for a while.

So I'm going to make this fun. And maybe I'm still on some mushrooms from my mushroom party last night, whatever. But then the very end, and someone wrote this, it made me laugh really hard. The, she wrote the, it's so funny at the end, cause he kind of stays in the middle where he lands and the cops are trying to grab him to get him off and he has his hands in the air, but he's not getting off. So they can't, they're trying to get on to get him off and it turns into a little bit of like the physical comedy bit.

And it's like, and the girl that wrote it goes, those things are so fucking hard to get off. Put an asshole. It's so true. I hate him. The cops are all, you can tell they're livid and they're fucking just trying to arrest him. They're sweating.

Bro, don't taze me dude. Oh my God. You know that some fucking poor girl named Stacy's ex-boyfriend and she's like so embarrassed right now, or has someone like, I've gone on a tinder date with that guy, you know. He left his shirt in my car. That was so weird. Oh, the shirtless guy that brought me to the, to the restaurant. I just hate shirts and pollution.

I love it. Those are his two of the least favorite things. Okay. Damn it. Shirtless shirt. Time for a better cooking routine with meal planning, shopping and prepping handled. Hello Fresh has you covered. Hello Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in

the new year. Hello Fresh meals are convenient, seasonal and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly. Why stop with just dinner? Now you can enjoy Hello Fresh's expanded menu of quick lunch solutions, weekend brunch, simple side dishes and amazing desserts. Here in January is going to be my month for Hello Fresh. I am so sick of takeout.

I miss cooking so much I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since like early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and Hello Fresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20.

Goodbye. Hey, I'm Aresha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast Even The Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston, Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched, but her incredible

success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva will tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even The Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Who goes first this week? That was breaking.

Um, Steve, new hair Steve. What was last week? Oh, I think I went first. Did you? Wait. Consulting the notes. Who went first? Uh, wait.

Uh, oh, um, you go first. I go first. Yes. Okay. This is Karen Kilgarra. Good night. I'm going to take a nap. I'm going to flip implant Kilgarra reporting.

You close your eyes, put your feet up above your head like I did. Georgia just turned into the letter L. Um, okay, so with all the, with the very bad feelings that are in a cloud around us, like pollution, like this terrible pollution. I will say this coming home from Petaluma, having visited my family and then driving back down this city is, it's disgusting, it's shockingly brown. It's sober. I didn't even, you don't even notice. You think that this guy is blue and then you're like, well, that's actually not blue.

And it's like driving down the five when you get behind Burbank, you know, you're kind of like on that spot. So you get almost all the, you get the pollution that's kind of in general, but then you get it all the way downtown to it. It's, it's so, it's like the air is tan. Yeah. It's very disturbing. It is.

So backflip, you were right, but why did I say that? Oh, because. So with all the bad things that are happening, it's very good for us. Like I'm so happy I went and saw my family, got to see Nora, uh, got to hang out with the fam, um, got to have a nice drive home and listened to about 40 episodes of the legendary podcast criminal, which we've all listened to. So good, so many amazing stories and of course my favorite thing is when people are telling their own story firsthand in some way.

And so this one I wanted to tell because I've, I think we've all heard this story on Dateline and on all of, all of the shows, but in this episode of criminal, um, it's told firsthand from, um, from this woman's point of view who is in, in it and involved in it. And the whole thing is kind of as awful as the story is, it's also feel good, which we fucking need right now. Yeah. Well, we're not going to have that by the end of the episode because mine's not.

No. And I don't think people are coming here for the direct feel good, but I just want, as I sat down, yeah, because I was going to do Georgia Lee Moses this week because I was in Petaluma and she's the girl, the 12 year old girl who's still a cold case. She was murdered and left by the side of the road at the same time Polly class was, but Polly class got way more attention because Polly class's family was there. There are people who didn't, they didn't know Georgia Moses was gone for a couple days. Like it's the, the difference in everything in those two stories is so stark and awful,

but Georgia Moses still has friends who knew her from junior high. They have a Facebook page. They still talk about it. And they moved, there was a memorial next to the one on one freeway, which was near where her body was dumped. And when they did, they just did a ton of reconstruction on that part of freeway. They had to move, move the memorial and people were really, really upset. It's like, you can't just move.

This is meaningful. They moved it in front of the Petaluma city hall, which I think is so beautiful and important and like just even doing that slight research made me happy. But maybe that can be one of those cases that are finally solved by ancestral DNA. The thing is, it had, I think all in all these cases or, you know, like a major part of it is that there's someone somewhere that's just fighting for it, still waiting and bugging people and saying, please test this, please test this. Which we all know and every time we do, you, you do them way more than me of the cold cases.

So anyway, that's what I was going to do. And then I, when I sat down after all the news this morning and everything that's tough, I was like, ah, maybe something less tough. So this, this was a cool story to hear on criminal. And also I got, there's a really good article in the Dallas news that was reprinted from August 3rd, 2012. So this starts October 12th, 1984 and we're in Dallas, Texas. It's a woman named Angie Simota is, she's a student at Southern Methodist University,

which is right there in Dallas. And she is, you know, she's described by her friend and in every article or whatever. And this is a thing that we come up against a lot because of course the majority of stories that we hear are about blonde, beautiful women. It's like that's the, that's a news get if a blonde, beautiful mother is killed, you know, that's, that's a, that's a story that they all, everybody sinks their teeth into. And so this is another one of those stories. She was in a sorority, she was a sorority girl.

She was really fun and vivacious and lovely and beautiful, but she also was super smart. She was a double major in computer science and electrical engineering, so she clearly wanted to be like a computer person or knew that that was going to be the future. And so she, you know, that's why her friends called her a triple threat. And so basically the, the majority of this episode of criminal, they're interviewing a woman named Sheila Gibbons Weisaki. And she, Sheila was Angela's roommate of freshman year at Southern SMU, we'll call it. Okay.

I feel so uncomfortable using shortened terms for colleges as if I fucking went there or anywhere. But SMU. You know, good old SMU. And then like go see snakes, her key, her key snake, see snakes. She did call them the sea snakes. Is that what they, maybe that's what they are. That is what they are.

The sea snakes. The fact that it's sea snakes, all that like alliteration, it really trips people up and then they lose the game. And then they have to see snakes. Okay. So Sheila and Angela are paired, they're roommates freshman year of college. And as, you know, a vivacious and an outgoing as Angela is Sheila, she's a psych major. She's a little bit more introverted, a little more cautious, really not the same type.

She doesn't drink. And when they first lived together, Angela had a boyfriend that she hated, that Sheila hated and was like, so, but then Angela broke up with that guy. And then the two of them started hanging out all the time. And so she, Sheila tells a lovely story of how they used to go drive down a place called forest lane, where basically you just drive around. That's how you met guys in like in that area, which is so cute and so country like it remind me of.

We had in the eighties in high school, there was cruising, you just drove up and down the boulevard. Let's see who's out right now. Yeah. And like yelling to other people's cars and then just drive away. That's how I was did it. You'll think of me later by, so, so anyway, that's what they did. And that, you know, Sheila has all these fond memories of how fun they were in that when

they would like when the their groups of friends would party, she was just the designated driver. So she's still hung out and had fun, but just was kind of more on the more conservative side. Yeah. Then when it's when the next year, Angie decides she wants to be in a sorority. She doesn't want to live in a sorority house because she started dating a new guy. His name is Ben. He's older.

She wants to be able to like kind of live a more independent life. So she moves into a condo off campus, but she and Sheila still stay in touch and are still friends. So in the weekend of October 12, 1984, it's the big game between again, you can say they're full saying your full name, the sea snakes versus the sea. No, this is now, well, you know, the mascot for the University of Texas, of course, the famous cowboy boot, the fighting cowboy boot going up against the University of Oklahoma on their fighting tumbleweed, the cowboy boot, just kicking the tumbleweed's ass.

The tumbleweed coming in and putting little spikes down the boot. Yeah. Or just like making everyone kind of depressed just by blowing by and being like, oh fuck that sucks. Just quitting the football game because they're bummed out. Good job, tumbleweed. Did you see it really quickly? There's like this town that got overran by tumbleweed.

Yes. Was it like Vegas or Nevada somewhere? Yes. It was somewhere like Arizona. Somewhere where it has tumbleweeds. Okay. It's like the creepiest fucking thing. Look it up.

There's video. And it's like two story houses and the tumbleweeds reach the second fucking story and it kind of just makes you think of like, it looks like spiders. It's crazy. Anyways. It's such a good video. It's just like someone driving in a car and then these humongous, not like one tumbleweed that crosses the road in a western, huge tumbleweeds that are just piling up that they're like

since someone come and get these out of our yard. It sucks. It's a good stuff. Okay. So of course the boots are kicking the tumbleweeds asses. No, I don't know. This was like a famous game. It was called the Red River Showdown.

And it was also the same weekend as the, it was the opening weekend of the Texas State Fair. Okay. So there's a shit ton of people out and about. And so Angie wants to go out and she gets her friend Anita Kadala and she goes bar hopping and they call a guy that Angie had met previously, also at a bar and his name is Russell Buchanan. Now Russell Buchanan is older than them. They're sophomores.

He's graduated. He's 23. He's getting ready to go to graduate school. He's an architect. He's studying or he's gotten his degree in architecture and that's what he's going to become. So he's not, I think she, I mean the frat boy, no, exactly. He's kind of like a cool older guy that they met and it's like, come drink with us.

And then Angie's boyfriend, Ben, he didn't go out that night because he had to get up. He was a construction, construction company manager, so he had to get up really early in the morning. So he's like, no, you, you go have your fun. So they went bar hopping that night and everywhere they went, people said, she knows everybody everywhere. She is this, she became the social chair of the sorority she joined. So she was just kind of like one of those people.

And so around 1 a.m., they go home. So Angie drops off, first she drops off Russell at his house, which is a five minute walk from her apartment. Then she drops off her friend Anita. Then she drives over to her boyfriend Ben's house that's about a half an hour away just to say good night. And basically it sounded like she said, like, you're a nerd for not coming out with us. Whatever.

She's like, you cuteness. Then she drives home at about 1 45 in the morning, Ben gets a call and Angie is saying, talk to me. I'm, I'm freaked out right now. There's a guy in my house and he's, he's just waking up. He doesn't get what's going on and she's trying to talk to him and code at first. And he doesn't understand what she's saying. And then finally she says, I'm freaking out because there's a stranger in my house and

she basically says some guy knocked on the door and asked if he could use the bathroom and use the phone. And so I'm really scared. And she let him in and she's like, let's just pretend we're on the phone while he's here until he leaves. Stay on the phone with me. Exactly. Oh no.

Yeah. Exactly. So as he started to catch on and going, wait, what, right, right as he's asking her like, how did you meet this guy or whatever, the phone goes dead. So he calls her back. There's no answer. He starts freaking out, drives over to the apartment and because of his job, even though it's 1984 and four, and this is pre 911, pre DNA, pre cell phones, he has got a cell phone

in his truck because he's this construction site manager. So in the episode of criminal, they say the cell phone took up like the almost the entire like front dash of this truck, but he did have a phone in his car. So he just kept on calling her on his drive over and of course no one answered. So he gets there, the door's locked, no one's opening the door. He's knocking, no one's responding. So he goes back, calls the police, he has to call information to call the police and the police show up.

And there's a in the Dallas news article I read, there's a police officer who says she was on the case and she was 20 years old. She was like a rookie herself. And she they had had this crazy weekend because there's so many more people in town than they normally are. And then they get this call and she says the second they pulled into the apartment complex, she had a bad feeling and it just kept getting worse. And she was like, it was the worst feeling.

So they open the, they get the manager's key. They open Angela's apartment door and her partner, as she's walking around the front, she's seeing Angela's shoes in the kitchen and looking around there. And she hears her part, her partner in the back bedroom saying she's back here. And Angela's murdered body is laying nude on her bed. She's been stabbed 18 times. Oh my God. This is really graphic.

She was stabbed so violently that her heart was outside of her chest. Oh my God. Just horrible. And this, and that woman who is the, who is the officer says, yeah, she says she's never forgotten. No. No. And you wouldn't.

And yeah, it's just worst case scenario. So, so the police collect the blood and semen samples from this crime scene. They scrape her fingernails and they keep all that evidence. But it's again, 1984. Right. And immediately, of course, there are three, three very obvious suspects that the police identify. Ben McCall, Angie's current boyfriend, Russell Buchanan, the guy that was out with them at

the bar that night. And then an ex, that ex-boyfriend of Angie that Sheila did not like, who actually threatened Angie with a knife when they broke up. Oh my God. So, you know, Sheila's instincts were right. But they find that the blood on the scene was, was the blood type of non-secreter, right? Which was the way they typed it back then. And Angie's boyfriend, Ben, and the bad ex were both immediately cleared because they

were secretors, but Russell Buchanan is a non-secretary. So the cops are immediately like, this is our guy. A secreter is defined as a person who secretes their blood type antigens into body fluids and secretions like the saliva in your mouth and you can see your digestive tract and respiratory cavities. Basically, what this means is that a secreter puts their blood type into these body fluids. Okay. Okay.

So a non-secreter, someone who doesn't have their blood type in their body. So you can't type it through fluid. Right. They couldn't at the time. Yeah. Cool. And they still can't because they don't secrete it. We haven't evolved.

All right. Okay. So it's all about Russell Buchanan now and his story is a little weird because when the cops show up at his apartment Monday morning to say that Angela Samada is dead and has been murdered, Russell Buchanan acts like he has no idea and doesn't, and the cops are like, so you haven't watched the news and you haven't read the newspaper. And he's like, no, actually, the morning after I got dropped off, I woke up really early, I went to my friend's wedding, I left from my friend's wedding for a trip to visit my

family in Houston that I've had planned for a while. And I just got back, when I got back Sunday night, I immediately started working because I had a bunch of work to do. And yeah, I haven't, I don't know anything. That doesn't seem that weird, right? I mean. From his point of view, but the cops see it as you got dropped off and then you left town. That's all they are seeing.

And so they're like, and you're a non-secretar. So they bring him in and they give him a lie detector test and he passes it. And that of course, they're like, how did this happen? This is the guy clearly. And so they put him under surveillance and they're watching him and over the next six months, they bring him in repeatedly to question him and to test his story and to talk about that trip to visit his family and over and over. And as that happens, and he doesn't call a lawyer because he's trying to be, he's trying

to work with the police and he's trying to help the case. But finally, his family says, you have to call, they're just going to pin this on you so you, you have to get a lawyer. He does finally decides to do that when the, when the police say, actually, we don't think your lie, your lie detector test, and we don't think you passed it. We looked at it again and it's inconclusive. And that's when he knew like, this is going to get bad for me. So he lawyers up and the lawyer basically calls the detective and says, release my client

or charge him. And so they have to release him. Then the cops find out that Russell's about to leave the country because he's going to get his, he's going to graduate school for architecture in London. So now they're like, we've got to get this guy with the fuck. So they start talking to Angela's friends and, and they meet Sheila. And Sheila tells them, Sheila knows all about Angie's other friends and about her life. And they start talking to Sheila more and more and finally convince her to go out to dinner

with Russell and ask him about all the details of that to see if his story is the same. She wears a wire. Dang operation. Yes. That sounds fucking awesome. They put a wire on her and she, in the criminal episode goes, the one thing I did wrong was that I drew, I wrote in his car to the restaurant where I was like, holy shit. So she, and she goes, I realized as I was doing that, that that was a bad idea.

But she basically had dinner with the person she thought murdered. She thought he did it. Yes, she did. And she was basically asking all the questions they told her to ask and his story was consistent. It was the same thing. I don't think it's him. He said, he said all the same stuff. And so they basically, when it came time for him to go to London to go to graduate school,

he left. Okay. And the case goes cold. Okay. I really don't, I might keep waiting to remember this story and I don't know it. And I don't, and I'm excited and I also don't think he did it. Okay. But that's my guess right now.

Okay. I like a mid-story guess just to be like, because you know, in these things, anything can happen. That's right. So, sorry. I have to catch up to myself. What the fuck does that say? Anything can happen.

There's a moth flying around. I apologize. Oh, that's right. Oh, also, I forgot to mention the police told Sheila before she wore the wire and had dinner with Russell that he had failed his lie detector test and that he had fled the city after the murder. They basically told her the story and really hit the narrative of like, this guy's, this is our guy.

Yeah. And we need to get this guy before he leaves for London. So when they can't get any evidence and there's, there's nothing to prove and he is able to leave for London and go to graduate school, you know, they all kind of just go, that was the guy. Yeah. He was investigated and Sheila doesn't, Sheila can't go back to college. She like, can't deal with it and she, she drops out of college.

Two years later, she meets the man who will be her future husband and they end up moving to Tennessee together, to Nashville, I believe, or Tennessee, I should say. How would I fucking know where they moved? They moved to Tennessee and they have two sons and her new husband did it. What about the sons? So she's living there and she's, she's got, she's, you know, got her life there, but it's always bothered her that a, her friends never gotten justice. She's the one who solves it.

I know this. I don't know what happens. I just remember reading about her, but I don't know what happened. This is the good feel good. I love her. Okay. So it really bothers her that Russell Buchanan is in London now he's, I think at some point when he comes back, he becomes a very successful architect and she's really pissed about it.

And she's like, my friend who could have been a genius computer, whatever she wanted is dead. No one's paying for it and this guy's living his life and he's the guy. So she then, at one point she joins a Bible study group and the way she tells the story is that one night in bed, she was trying to get her reading done for this group and out of the corner of her eye, boring, can you imagine just trying to read the Bible in bed? Oh, hello. That was all my entire childhood theology, like that shit in high school.

That sounds so boring. I don't know any of the presidents, but I, we could talk about fucking Samuel 535 all day. I don't know if that's an actual chapter or was that a beer and that's a kind of beer. Samuel, the great is and low, the dark brew washed them on your hair and conditioned it and the fishes and loaves and it conditioned the world and it and low, amen. My only begotten son. So she's sitting now trying to get her reading done.

And she says she doesn't know if she fell asleep or if it was a vision or what, but she knows for a fact that suddenly Angela is standing next to her bed. And that's when she knew it's, it's time to stop thinking about this and do something. She write that moment, picks up the phone and calls the Dallas police and says, my friend Angela was murdered in 1984. Nothing's ever come of it. What is somebody going to do something? And she from there begins to call the police in a one year period.

She called the Dallas police 750 times. Holy shit. She just kept calling and she knew she said it wasn't like she was demanding or angry. And she basically was begging and just saying, please, please open the case. Please look at the evidence. Can someone please do something and you hear those stories about the long time ones you just hear that like, yeah, they don't call and yell they like the dad will just call and like just reminding you, I'm still here.

Yeah. Hey, hi. How are you? Send Christmas cards. Right. Just want to let you know, like just not letting it get out of your mind. Right. Because and as everyone knows, the police have current cases solved on top of these cold

cases and this was back. So now it's the, you know, the nineties, the 2000s, 2000s, sorry, it's the 2000s. And they, they still didn't have a cold case unit. No, that's like a pretty new thing for a lot of places. Yeah. So she's basically calling to say, hey, can, hey, this old thing that like you don't even have time for, can you please make time for it? So every time she would talk to a different detective, every time she'd get bounced around,

she was known as the, as the PETA, the pain in the ass that was, the pain in the ass is trying to get her friend's brutal murder, murder song. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. No, but I mean, you're right. Okay. At one point, one of the policemen that she's ends up talking to on the phone tells her,

you know, some cases just aren't meant to be solved. And she, yeah, she thinks to herself, this one is going to be. And that's when she, so she, because of the murder and the way it affected her life when that when she, where she lived with her family was in a gated community because she was felt so unsafe all the time. And she would, when she was calling these cops in Dallas and talking, she would talk to the guy that was the head of the security of this, of the, where they live, their neighborhood where they lived.

And at one point, and she was complaining, she couldn't get any movement that she would ask them, you know, or tell them about stuff and they didn't seem to care. And the man who was the head of the security at this gated community said to her, I can sponsor you and you can become a private investigator and you can start looking into this yourself. Because back then you needed to sponsor and then you had to take a test. And so she was like, that's what I'm going to do love him, love him, love her. And he, yeah, how cool of him to realize this is a woman on a mission that needs help. And he's like, I'll sponsor you do this thing.

So she said, she's, she talks about it on criminal that she studied like it was a Harvard entrance exam, she had her sons quoting like civil law to her. They were still remember it to this day as adults. And she basically took this test and became a private investigator herself. Wow. Because then you can get the case files, right? Yeah. And yeah, it has, she has all this access and there's much more respectability with

the police. Right. When she's calling, she's not just some lady. Totally. Suddenly she's an investigator that's there. And she also had to work on, you know, when she first started as a private investigator, she was doing like cheating cases and all those kinds of things. But the only reason she got her license was for him to solve Angela's murder.

Okay. So, but she's actually working as a real private investigator simultaneously. That's so cool. She actually, her quote, there's amazing quote in one of the articles I read where she said, the FBI has nothing on a worried mother. I'm a better investigator. So in 2006, after years and years of calling and she made a war room in her house where she like had all the evidence and she had finally got, gotten a hold of a detective

named Linda Crumb. And she, she said in her first conversation with Linda, she knew it was going to be different because suddenly somebody was listening and they were talking and there was, you know, this was now a world where cold cases were a thing you, you went into. And that was becoming a department and all that stuff. So she talks to Linda, Linda finds out that they do have, they have blood samples, they have fingernail scrapings, they have semen and Linda's like, we're going to send it to the lab.

Hell yes, you are. Yeah. And in 2008, they get a hit and they find out that the DNA at the crime scene belongs not to Russell Buchanan and not to anybody that they investigated, but to a man named Donald Andrew Bess who was when they, in 2008, when they found out serving a life sentence in Huntsville for rape. Oh my God. He had been out on parole for rape in 1984.

He saw Angie the night that they, everybody was out in Dallas for the, the big weekend and became fixated on her. He followed her home and knocked on her door and asked if he could use her bathroom and use her phone, gained access to her apartment, which at the time, and this was a product of the day, but he, I'm sure he was very polite and very friendly and probably acted worried. The man was six feet tall and weighed 350 pounds. Holy shit. There's no need to, you don't open a door for somebody like that.

Yeah. Now we know like you don't even open your door. It's not even, you don't say no, you can't come in. You just don't open the fucking door. You don't open the door and you, there's no reason that a man like that needs your help personally. Yeah. He could, he'd go to a gas station and there's lots of other places.

So anyway, but, but at the time she's just back in from the club. It could have even been that thing where she gets in, turns around, shuts the door and then there's a knob. Yeah. She thinks it's someone like her neighbor. Yeah. Or yeah. Somebody that just passed her in the, you know, there's, there's the way your mind goes

or like, this is fine. Yeah. But once he's in the apartment, she immediately gets the bad feeling and like, what did I fucking do? Yeah. So she calls her boyfriend. And again, pre-9-1-1. Yeah.

You can't, if there's no emergency things set up to help you and support you, you don't know what else to do. It's also that thing of like, I'm like, well, she should have just walked out of the house, you know, and like left, but it's like, yeah, you, you don't go where though to knock on the neighbor's door. I don't know. Yeah. But I like that knock on the neighbor's door or just grab your keys and get into your

car. And like the thing of like, I don't want to leave a stranger alone in my house. It's like, at this point, if you've got some worry going on, just get the fuck out of there. Just shut up. Be fine. Grab your cat and get out of there. Yeah.

Yeah. So what the police theorize is that he gained access to her apartment, you know, surely by being charming and nice. And then once he got in there, he attacked her. And when Ben got to the apartment and knocked on the door, he was still in there. They think the heat, that's when he stabbed her to keep her quiet. Yeah. Oh my God.

So in June of 2010, Russell, they, they tried Donald Bess for a cap for capital murder. The jury deliberates for one hour. And this is after the defense. It's very upsetting. Sheila talks about this in, in episode of criminal, the defense brought out her outfit and talked about how she was dressed provocatively and that basically she was asking for it. Are you in 2008? Yeah.

They, they completely tried to destroy her reputation. They tried to talk about her. They tried to, they tried to act like she was getting around town type of stuff. Can you imagine being on that jury and just being like, what the fuck is going on? Like it's almost like the convicting in an hour is telling the defense, fuck you. Yes, it is. Like that's, that was not a fucking defense. That's exactly right.

Some of this DNA match was almost a hundred percent. It was like, it was this astronomical. It's almost like they weren't even, they weren't even saying he raped and murdered her. They were saying. She deserved it. Right. Well, how he couldn't help himself. Exactly right.

Because of her. Exactly right. And that jury came back and was like, no, no, no, no, no. How about, go fuck yourself. How about he gets the death sentence? Yeah. Yeah. He's found guilty.

He's given the death sentence. Sheila drove 650 miles from Nashville to Dallas to be there for the trial with her older son. Yes. And then Donald Best is still on death row and he just lost his most recent appeal. Two years after he was convicted in February of 2012, Russell Buchanan met Sheila Gibbons Wysocki and because they both went to Dallas to film the episode of Dateline about Angela's murder.

And when Sheila met Russell, she said to him, I need your forgiveness. And then she explained everything that she did to help the police try to convict him. And she explained how, you know, they told her he'd fail. He'd, that basically the storyline was that he was guilty and they needed help getting it. Yeah. And she always thought he was guilty. And Russell Buchanan said to her, you are just doing what you thought was right for

your friend. And then when Russell Buchanan's name was cleared entirely, the Dallas police apologized to him. The current investigator pulled out his file and said, you've really been through something. And he was quoted as saying in the Dallas news that quote, it wasn't their fault. If that was your daughter that had been killed, wouldn't you want the police department to use whatever means necessary to find the truth? I would.

As far as I'm concerned, the Dallas police department does not owe me an apology. They never did. I'm grateful for the work and the service they did. That's it. Period. Oh, how fucking rad is that guy? God, yeah. And the part that I love the most, Sheila Weisaki, I hope I'm pronouncing her last name right,

but I think I am. She now has her own private investigation firm in Nashville called Without Warning. And she started out only, she was only doing it for her friend, Angela, so that she could solve that murder. She said that she gets thousands of calls from families with cold case murder cases that they need help with. And she does, she works on about five a year. Oh my God.

And yeah, when it is the kind of final moment at the end of the episode of Criminal, Phoebe, what's her last name? Phoebe Judge. Yes. Love her so much. Phoebe Judge with the greatest. I'm Phoebe Judge. I'm a Phoebe Judge.

And this. She's so human. Yeah. Warm. Good at it. So good at that. Good radio stuff. Phoebe Judge says, why did you think you could do this?

And Sheila goes, I didn't, but I had to try. She deserved it. And that is a fucking horrible story that is also so beautiful of a person here just like did something. That is incredible. Let's end this episode now. I won't do it this week. Or can we edit this so that yours is the end?

No, just tell yours. Tell it. That was beautiful. Thank you. Yeah. Good job. And good job, Phoebe Judge. Good job, Phoebe Judge.

Sheila and Phoebe really gave me the book. I mean, that was, I was driving down the five just being like, this is the best story of that time. Yeah. This is it. This is beautiful. Okay. I'm going to pee.

Oh, what? When you were in the bathroom, you texted Daniel. I'm always working. Are we recording? Yeah. Oh. Georgia did it. Georgia did it again.

We took a break. We took a break and then Georgia did some, that's got some work done in the bathroom. I'm just sitting there peeing. What else am I supposed to do? I just love it because she goes downstairs and then I get a notification on my phone as I'm sitting up here. Georgia texted so and so. I love it.

You can't, also it's just, it think it's making me laugh because we cannot get away from each other. We can't get away from each other. We can't, I can't turn it off. It's just a constant thought of everything. It's constant. Busy busy. Yeah.

Good stuff. Okay. Fun stuff. Fun stuff. All right. I am doing the Lake Bodum murders. Lake what? Bodum.

Oh. Do you know them? I don't. Not by title. All right. Here we go. Lake, so Lake Bodum is in Finland. Okay.

Okay. There. So the capital of Helsinki, just outside of that is a town called Espo and then in right right outside on the outskirts of that is this like beautiful lake called Lake Bodum. People go camping and fishing and hiking and it's just like a beautiful safe area. Okay. Yeah. So the Lake Bodum murders is the most famous unsolved homicide in Finnish criminal history.

Wow. Unsolved as I like to do. As you like to do. Okay. It's June 4th, 1960. Here we are. And an oldie. Okay.

There's two couples, two teenage couples that decide to go camping. One is 15 year old Myla Ramelli Bjorkland and her, so she's 15, her 18 year old boyfriend is named Nils Wilhelm Gustafsson, Gustafsson, no Gustafsson, Gustafsson, they've been dating for about a month. And then their friends, Anya, Tuliki, Maki, she's 15 also and she's with her boyfriend about a year, his name's Seppo Boyceman, he's 18. So two 15 year old girls, they're 18 year old boyfriends. They set up camp, they hang out, they fish, they drink some booze, you know, did fucking

like teenage camping shit. Totally. And then they go to bed that night in the tent. And before I realized what the real name is of this kind of tent style, I just wrote Snoopy style tent. But it's a pup tent. Yes. You know what I mean?

We're like, you just like hang a rope and you put it over it and you, and so it's like that kind of Wes Anderson movie kind of a style more like a tent, like you're not like today's camping. It's not high ceilings, it's very like it's basically just an upside down V on the ground. Exactly with some like string hanging there and here and whatever the fuck. Got it. So all right, they go to sleep. The next morning at about 11 a.m., a hiker comes upon the teen's campsite.

Oh, this poor hiker. I know. Well, actually there's, I of course looked in the, my favorite murder email to see if anyone had sent us anything about it. And one woman sent us an email and murder, you know, and she was like, the truth about this is my fucking aunt, my two aunts actually found the bodies, but it's like all this shit happens and this guy gets credit for it. So.

Oh no. But it's like, they don't, she was like, they don't really need the credit. Yeah. That's an odd word. Right. Yeah. So this guy comes across the tent and he sees that it's collapsed, it's bloody and ripped up and upon closer investigation, he realizes that all four teens are tangled in the tent

and one of the teens is laying on top of it, bloody. He fucking takes off, calls the police, they come and they, there they find that tangled in the tent, the dead and bloodied bodies of Myla, Anja and Seppo. Those are the two girls and one of the boys. And on top of the tent is the badly injured body of Nils. He's unconscious. So he's still alive. Wow.

Investigators surmise that while the teens were sleeping in the tent, the two boys on the outside, the girls on the inside, they had that's sweet and innocent. I know, it sounds innocent to me like, yeah, they had been attacked by someone outside of the tent with a knife and a blunt object. So the killer had apparently like first cut the ties so the tent collapsed so the kids are probably like confused and then just starts fucking blindly hitting and stabbing at the people in the tent. So who knows if he even knew who was inside of those tents.

Wow. So then through the fabric Nils, who's the only survivor somehow managed to like kind of start to come out of it, but he sustained, he survives sustained, but he'd seen a concussion fractures to the jaw and facial bones and bruises to the face, but he lived, but he was unconscious that whole time. So it must have been kind of bad, right? Yes. So he, his girlfriend had received the worst of the attack, Mila.

She was found undressed from the waist down, but they don't know if like she had gone to bed that way or if that had happened later, they could never figure that out. And she had been stabbed multiple times after her death. So it's kind of overkill for her, although the other two who were dead had only received, you know, what they needed to be killed, which like, who the fuck knows for sure. Right. But it's just, it's obvious to the police that one person got attacked more. Right.

Yeah. Right. But then again, it's like, well, maybe she was on like closer to the person who was doing the hitting and stabbing. Yeah. And she had to add in the, but her boyfriend is survived even though he's injured. That's bad. And her pants are gone.

Yeah. That's bad too. Bad, bad, bad. Okay. So before the teens had been found that morning at 11, at 6am, there were some boys and they were out bird watching. They went towards the tent because they saw the motorcycles that the boys, the teenage boys had driven up in and they saw the collapsed tent and they saw a blonde man walking away

from it. But I don't think they realized anything was wrong. So they just kept moving, but later told people, the police about that. And they gave a description of the killer. So while Nils is transported to the hospital for treatment, investigators call upon the fucking town to come help find the murder weapons and other items that have been taken from the scene. Oh no, crowdsourcing.

Yeah. Oh. So this fucking crime scene and surrounding area gets motherfucking trampled, of course. That's how they used to like to do it. Yeah. They say, can we get more boots over here, please? Yeah. Can we get the Texas Coway boots in here?

It's the funny argument of like when people are like, what is this true crime trend or whatever. It's like, are you kidding me? Read any of these stories. The town always shows up and tries to grab shit. Totally. And take it home. Like since the 1500s, it's like a human instinct to go to the work place.

This is a break from the fucking hovel that the fucking so-and-so was murdered in. Jesus. The oldest murder. He was. Yeah. Shit. Okay. So.

Jesus was murdered by your sins. We can talk about it after this. Let's edit that out. Okay, wait, hold on. So hundreds of people scouring the area, but they can't find the murder weapon. And murder weapons are never found, and they just fucking contaminate the whole crime scene. The killer had taken several items from the campsite, which detectives like couldn't really put together and figure out like why.

So they took the keys to the victim's motorcycles, but they left the motorcycles behind. And then they were tracks of blood that show that the killer was wearing, had, was wearing Nils shoes, the kid who survived, was wearing his shoes when he committed and left the murder scene. But the shoes were discovered partially hidden a little over 500 yards from the murder site along with some of the other stolen clothes. But some stuff was completely gone, like Seppo's leather jacket. So to me, it almost sounds like the killer grabbed a fucking bunch of shit and like wandered

off, tried some stuff on later, left some stuff behind, you know, kept what he wanted. Or if we're still playing in the realm of like Nils might be, then he set it up. He did it, then realized all that would be recognizable, like shoe prints and stuff. And then tried to go hide his shoes. Yeah. Or like, yeah, there's all these possibilities. And it's also hard because a lot of these articles are written in Finnish, so the story is like there's...

You don't speak? No. What? Yeah. I know. I'm embarrassed. I think people, when we were in Scandinavia, tell us that Finnish is like the hardest language.

Yes, that they don't even understand it sometimes. Yes. So cool. I know. So based on the description of the boys who were birdwatching, as well as so Nils then gets put... He can't remember anything, so he gets put under hypnosis. And he tells the detectives all this information and a creepy sketch is drawn of the potential

killer. Okay, so here's some creepy sketches, and you can see them on our Instagram account or our Twitter account. No. Yeah. No. He just looks... What does he look like?

Well, the eyes are too big. That looks like... Okay, but just... It looks like someone has... It looks like when people mess around with their selfies and give themselves oversized eyes. And like a weird kind of pug nose, big lips. Yes.

It's weird. And also the face is all scrunched in the middle of the head. Yes. I know it's big features, but then the face itself is small and the head is big. Yeah. So he's this blonde man. Okay, so they give him this sketch. Then the funeral for the teens happens, right?

And police later look at the photos of the crowds at the funeral, because there were hundreds of people there because it was this small town and everyone came to the funeral. And they notice an unidentified man in the crowd who looks almost exactly like the sketch. Are you going to show me a picture of it? Are you ready to be more creeped out than you've ever been in your life? Yes. Okay, hold on. More than Beast of Jersey mask?

Yes. So remember... Shit. Just remember that sketch you just described and how it doesn't look like a real person. Yeah. Okay. Look at that. Oh, it looks like a razor head.

Yeah. A razor head in the middle of the crowd. It looks like they took that horrible drawing and then made it into a person's face. Yes. It doesn't look like it's a person's face and it just doesn't look real. I'm like reaching for the phone from Steven like, give it back because it is... It looks like something's wrong with this person's face. It looks like, you know, oh, you know what it looks like?

You know when that woman did that painting over the antique scrolls and it just didn't look like it looked like a cartoon face all of a sudden? Yes. That's what it looks like. Yes. And it's in a sea of normal faces too, so that's weird also. But it also looks like, I mean, we could just keep on doing this, but there's an aspect to it that has a kind of like, what's that fucking guy?

What's the director? What's Edward Scissorhands director? Oh, Tim Burton. Oh, Tim Burton cartoon character feel like real dark circles under the eyes and the eyes are big and the cheekbones are big. Like a really white blonde hair, but I guess it's fucking Finland, so it's not that weird. Okay, we'll get back to this. I just want to keep talking about it because you know what it kind of looks like?

It looks like he's wearing a mask. Yeah. It's very fucking creepy. It looks like a mask. So then, but nobody knows who that person is. They couldn't identify him and let's see. All right. So here are the suspects.

What's their list? The owner of the mask shop. I'd put him way up at the top. My nightmares. Okay. So Carl Vladimir Gilstrom, known by the nickname is kiosk man because he owns a kiosk at the camp site, which I think just means you buy shit there. Oh, right.

Food, maybe. Sure. But he's like a notoriously fucking asshole, hates campers where it's like, get another job then, dude. People like to be unhappy. That's true. He even sometimes will throw rocks at passing children. He's just a fucking grumpy asshole.

You can't do that. I know. 1960. You can do anything you want. You can hook in Finland. You can hook a rock at a child. Shithead camper. Yeah.

Relatives. So relatives tell authorities that Carl, a few days after the murder, filled in the well on his property. Uh-oh. And so police are like, maybe the murder weapons are there and like the shit that he stole. So police search his property. Um, but they're like, we didn't find anything incriminating, but they didn't dig up the well.

Oh, that's the one place that we'd be in. I think that they must have been like, well, let's go see what we can find. And then based on that, we don't think we need to dig up the well because also his wife gave him an alibi and said I was with him all night, which we all, we were down on that well. She was gave the alibi to the well, not to him. I was with that well all night. She's like, don't you go, don't you look at that well?

Don't you talk to that well? But here's the thing. There's no reason to fill in a well, to fill in a well. That's like saying, we'll never need water again. People build, you put it like a sister and lid on the top of a well so people don't fall in. But you don't fucking fill it in like, sorry, we're not interested in water from the ground anymore.

Right. And like, yeah. All right. So his wife's like, nope, totally with me, which we all know, like, fucking don't trust alibis from like, moms and girlfriends and fucking boyfriends and people, yeah, people who have a reason to lie or been threatened personally by the person who they're lying for. So years later, he supposedly is shitfaced and tells his neighbor, quote, I killed them,

which could mean anything. True. And then while on her deathbed, his wife was like, FYI, fucking totally lied for him because he threatened to kill me. If I said, if I didn't give him an alibi, he said he would kill me, of course, of course. But like, then it couldn't be completely verified. She had sent it to a friend. He said that to the neighbor while he was drunk.

And then in 1969, he kills himself reportedly by drowning in Lake Bodum, which is like fucking creepy. Yeah. And thematic and weird. Yeah. Also, FYI, we don't say committing suicide anymore. I read about that. Yeah.

It's interesting. Yeah. So I just want to make sure I say the right term. Yes. So the morning, okay, then here's another dude in this dude, I fucking think did it. But everyone in fucking Finland thinks someone else did it. Okay. So this dude, the more like this person, oh, I'll let you tell me more than well guy,

but well, I mean, well, yeah, he's a good one. They're all good. It's a problem. Yeah. So the morning after the murders, this fucking dude named Hans Asmann, one ass or two, a s s m a n n. Oh, come on. I swear to God.

Asmann. Your language isn't that hard to learn after all. He's German. So he, this dude, Hans, he's really into legs. He's an ass man. He's an ass man. He goes in. Stephen, don't laugh.

Don't be immature. Oh no. Stephen's whole head is red. Stephen's just bright red. Stephen. Stephen, don't be immature. This is a serious subject. It's tension.

We're laughing from the tension. He goes to the Helsinki Surgical Hospital and he's fucking disheveled. He has black under his fingernails and his clothes are covered in red stains. And his behavior is super fucking sketchy and weird. The doctors and nurses all say he lies to them about why he looks the way he looks. And when they're like, question him further, he fucking pretends to be unconscious. What? Goodbye.

Like just close to the side, it's like, where were you last night? Good night. Yeah. I'm unconscious. Oh. Asmann, wake up. I'm an ass man. And he's aggressive and nervous other times.

So he's fucking sketch balls. And it turns out. So he's from Germany. It was said to he's, he maybe started the rumor or it's true. It's hard to tell. He served as a guard in none other than Auschwitz. No. So he's a fucking.

We hate this guy. Yeah. Serves a good. Serves. None other than Auschwitz. I'm sorry, but that might need to be the title. Well, it's like, it's like the one, you know what I mean? Exactly.

It's not like, you know, fucking Birken Birkenau, it's like the fucking top of the line. It's not to say that one is worse, you know, Jesus, not Jesus, cut all of this out. If, no, no, no, if, if you're going to name a concentration camp Auschwitz is the one everybody's heard of. None other than. None other than. And yeah. All the other ones, there were so fucking many.

Yeah. So he is a guarded Auschwitz, but supposedly he became romantic. He fell in love with a Jewish girl, which is like, honey, that's not how it works. I mean, yeah. And you, you, okay, go ahead. It's really problematic. I was going to, I was going to give ass man some advice, but that's, I think we're past that.

So he is, they're like, fuck you and send him to the front lines. Oh. Where he gets captured by Soviets and recruited to be a KGB spy. Whoa. So this guy's like just topping the fucking top of the line piece of shit. And just having tons of bad experience. Yeah. Also.

Yeah. And from, well, he was okay, probably as a Nazi, they were in power and then it's like suddenly he's in, he's in a bad place. Yeah. So, so his clothing matches the description of the Lake Foda murderer and he, like, like a couple days after the, after watching the news about what happened cuts his blonde hair short. Oh.

Uh-oh. He lived just a short distance from the lake and at the time of the, at the time, but he claimed to have a solid alibi also. So the police only had a brief meeting with ass man and found little since they didn't want to cross examine the doctors. So like, they kind of didn't look into him and a lot of people think it's because of the KGB connection that they didn't go after him to. Too scary.

Yeah. That makes sense. So they didn't cross examine the doctors. They didn't take his stained clothing in for examination to even see if it was fucking paint or whatever. You know, maybe it was just red stained clothing and that's all they know. And in spite of the fact that the doctors in attendance were certain that it was blood. And in fact, a doctor, Jorma Paolo at the hospital, he was one of the doctors to initially

examine ass man. He goes on to write three books about ass man. He became obsessed with ass man. I bet. And he, a former detective. Can I say one joke? Yeah. Can we just put up, just square out a little time so that I can say he also went on to

write the famous song, baby got back. That was not worth it. Are you funny? Are you proud of yourself? No, it feels so bad. It feels terrible. So former detective Maddie, Stephen liked it, Stephen, uh, okay, former detective Maddie Palaro, who even went so far as to connect him with five other unsolved murders, Fox,

including Kailiki Sarri's murder and is so jokie, got that wrong. And the Tula, Tula Hitti double murders in Hainavasi, I don't know, a couple other murders. We're going to find out from, from our friends over in Scandinavia. They're going to say, this is how you say it and it's going to be illegible. It's going to be unreadable. So it's not going to help. No, that's not true because they A, B grade English and then B, they can do a phonetic spell where they're like, it's, we've gotten a couple of good ones of those.

That's true. Right. I'm sorry. Appalachia baby. That's right. So, um, and one of those murders took place 10 months prior to the Lake Boda murders. So he thinks this guy's like a fucking serial killer. Also, if he was a naughty guard, he has experienced and participated in things that are so beyond

yeah, monstrous and amelistic that he, there's a chance that either it's a kind of a PTSD like this is a thing I need to keep doing. Yeah. I mean, like he had a taste for it and he was one of those people like there's, it makes so much sense. Yeah. You don't just like participate in the, the complete destruction and annihilation of these people and then walk away and be like, power over all of them too.

So you can do whatever the fuck you want. Yes. And then get over it. Yeah. And then just go like, oh, I'm going to live by Lake now and everything's cool. Yeah. Um, and he also had, okay. And now let me show you his photo.

Uh-oh. Keep in mind those two other ones I just showed you. I'll never fucking forget them. Well, get ready for fucking exhibit C. Okay. Because here we go. Ready? Yeah. No.

What? It's identical. He looks like a, it looks like him. Yes, it certainly does. Right. It's almost like the human version of that face and then the guy at the funeral was like a crazy Halloween version of that. Totally.

Show Stephen. Or don't. It's him. I mean, it looks like him. I think he did it. Those eyes. Those eyes. Wow.

That's such a disturbing face. Yeah. He almost looks like Udo Kier, you know, that actor, the character actor that always plays like, he has light blue eyes and silver hair and he always kind of just plays the creepy foreign guy that's judging something. Like a, like a talent contest? He could be. Um, okay.

So. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Okay. There's another guy who can pass us. Like people just keep confessing, whatever. I don't think this guy's gonna do with it.

Cut to late March 2004, 44 years after the murder, the cases reopened and the bloodstains are analyzed again, which leads finished police to declare that the case has been solved based on new evidence. been camping nearby that day, but it's like new. She's like, oh, yeah, I forgot to tell you guys, I was there that day. Come on, where was she? Yeah.

Why didn't she speak up? That's when they arrest none other than Nils Gustafson for the murder of his friends and girlfriend. No. Yes. He had gone on to live a relatively normal life. He raised a family, retired from a long career as a school bus driver, and he's fucking arrested.

No. According to the official statement, Nils, they think Nils erupted in jealous anger over his feelings over his girlfriend at the time, Bjorkland. They believe that he had gotten into a scuffle with his friend, the other dude, and that's how he sustained his injuries.

So it wasn't even like he did them to himself to make it look like he was also attacked. Right, like they got into a fight, then he did that. So yeah, their proof was that Milo was the main target, so that was his girlfriend. Yeah. And they say that Nils' injuries were superficial and self-inflicted also.

So like a little of both, I guess. Yeah. Which, okay, so I have a hard time with, because then why would he lay there until 11 o'clock? If it happened at 6 a.m., and he would, why would he lay there until, pretending to be unconscious until 11? Wouldn't he get up and go find someone and be like,

oh, we were attacked, and I'm... I mean, that would make more sense, but maybe he, I mean, who knows? He's crazy enough to do it in the first place, but maybe he just laid there and was just like, okay, this is gonna be the best, most realistic way for me to get away with this. Yeah, but what if it happened when the people saw

a man walking away at 6 a.m.? That's fucking five hours. But maybe he wasn't laying there the entire time. Maybe he was like, he went and hit his shoes, and he did this, and he fucked around or whatever, and then maybe hurt a car, hurt someone, and then ran over and acted like he'd been laying there. Okay.

So the trial starts on August, in August of 2005, the new witness who had only come forward a year prior for a documentary interview, which is like, oh honey. Where were you? You were nowhere. She claims that the two teen boys had entered her tent and that Nils had been behaving aggressively with her that night.

Huh. Which I don't believe. The defense argued that the murders were a work of one or more outsiders, and that Nils would have been capable of killing three people given the extent of his injuries, because you've got a fucking fractured jaw. You're not like, you know what I mean? Yes.

Unless you're in a full rage, and you're in shock, and you can't feel your injuries, which a lot of people have talked about having happened. Well, guess what? Nils gets fucking convicted. Oh. But after serving one year, it was granted. In October 2005, the district court found Nils Gustafson

not guilty of all charges against him. They were like, no, no, that shouldn't have happened. Wow. Yeah. And he's. He's circumstantial. I think, yeah. OK.

So on his acquittal, the state of Finland pays him 44,000 euro for mental suffering caused by the long time in jail that he spent. But people still think he's guilty there, of course. And so here's what I think fucking happened. Remember that, remember in Oregon on our live show, I did the case. Yes, of those people camping, and the man

that looked like a cowboy. Yeah. And the girl wrote the book. OK, so it's the story of Terry Gents, J-E-N-Z. The book's called Strange Piece of Paradise. It's fucking great. But so she was camping with a girlfriend of hers. And this fucking, what she thinks happened,

she has to solve the case on her own, is fucking some dude in a crazy, you know, had just got dumped by his girlfriend somewhere else, had seen earlier, and knew that there were two girls camping alone, and just went and took it out on them, fucking attacked them. And this is kind of the same manner, like, while they were in the tent, and he was in the outside.

And so it's some fucking crazy person who maybe they, like, cut him off earlier on the road, or maybe they, like, yelled something at him. They're these teenagers, you know? Yes. And Nils doesn't remember because he got a fucking concussion. And this guy just went crazy. I feel like attacking from the outside of the tent

while you can't even see where the people are inside is just not about anything but rage. Yeah. It's not personal. It's not about one person in the tent. It's just you just start swinging. Yeah, you're just trying to inflict pain and war on people. And then the thing about, like, there's missing shoes.

He tries to steal these shoes. He steals a jacket. It's like, is this person on the run already? And he's trying to get fucking clothing that looks, you know, that he can use as a disguise? Yeah. Or is he, or is he just kind of out on his own and doesn't have a lot of money?

And he's like, I need this and I think. But then why would he, oh, if you took that motorcycle, yeah, you'd get caught with a motorcycle and I'd be like, open and shut. Right. Maybe he doesn't know how to drive a motorcycle. Maybe he's too small. It's a baby.

He's a tiny baby. Oh, what? So they, when they tested the blood on the shirt, it was Nils's blood and that's what made them go he didn't. When they tested the shoe, they tested his shoes. I can tell exactly, but they did test his shoes and all three of the murder victims' blood were on his shoes except for his.

Oh. Which could be explained in a number of different ways. Right. But there was also supposedly no other blood type at the scene. But I mean, there's a, you know, if that's all you have is circumstantial evidence, that's not enough. Right. Well, yeah, and this, especially in this situation

where it's, there seem to be a million possibilities. Right. And you have fucking evidence that I think it was maybe even another person saw someone, a blonde person leaving the fucking scene. So there's, they put another person there. Yeah. And those, the face of the guy at the funeral.

I mean, dude, if I was caught by just be like, we just need to figure out a way to get this guy off the street. Yeah. I don't even know who he is. It looks like the thing has a cousin who's a surfer. And he's an ass man. And he is an ass man from Finland. Yeah.

From Germany. From Germany living in Finland. Visiting Finland. From Russia. Spent some time in Russia after college. Via Russia. In the case of the KGB. Putin.

Karen solved it. It's Putin. Oh, Jesus. And that's the Lake Boda murders. So they'll probably never be solved. To this day. God. And can you believe they took him after all that time,

he, you know, after going through that, and they took him to fucking court and convicted him. And then recanted. Yeah. I want to know more about the woman who got interviewed for the documentary and what her deal is. I'm sure she's super normal. I bet she's regular.

She just thinks things through. Yeah. God, that's fascinating. Yeah. Also, it does, I, as awful as that story is, that you did the, the, sorry, the, the, the, Terry Gens, yeah. Yeah.

That story is incredible. It's, the book, it's incredible. It's like this woman is a fucking fighter and she goes to try to solve her own case, you know, 20 fucking years after it happened. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a really great book. I listened to it on tape and I, or,

Her name's Terry Gens. J-E-N-T-Z and it's Strange Piece of Paradise. I highly recommend the audiobook. Yeah. Yeah. That was a great story. Yeah. Well, amazing.

Yeah. Thank you. Crazy, right? Yeah. Cool. Wow. Guys, we did it. We did it.

We got through this. It's only been 45 minutes. Yeah. It's a record for us. It really is. We learned. We loved. We levitated.

We, we've been levitating this whole time. We have been levitating and you can't too if you just joined the fan cult. Magical power. Magical power. Yay. Do you have a fucking hooray for this week? I do.

Let us hear it. So it turns out and, and murderinos do more good shit in the world of that. Murderinos doing good stuff. They keep doing it. They just keep doing it. So this woman named Charlotte emailed us to let us know that they, that, so there was a fundraiser started

for RACES, R-A-I-C-E-S. And so RACES, R-A-I-C-E-S, I hope I'm fucking saying that, right, is the largest immigration legal services provider in Texas. And so this woman named Charlotte and this guy named Dave started a fundraiser on Facebook called Reunite an Immigrant Parent with their Child. Yes.

And it's raising money to do just that, which is fucking incredible. And I mean, this is, this is these stories were why I donated money in my mother's name is because it was just making me heartbroken. And it still is. They were going to try to raise 10 million, but they've raised 20 million.

Well, they're first, are you talking about RACES? Are you talking about the murderinos? This is a fundraiser. It's not murderino specific, but it turns out that Charlotte emailed us to let us know that they're murderinos. Oh, right. But I'm saying you don't mean RACES, you mean these individuals.

Yes. OK. Because RACES, when they put their thing up, their goal as a, as that nonprofit, the day that that story broke, when they put it up, they were like, we hope to raise $5,000. And they raised like several million. Yeah.

Like they're, they're getting so many donations that they're, they had just like set up a whole other system of like how they're going to like actually put this money out. And it's such an amazing, beautiful response to such a disgusting fucking frightening thing that's happening where they're actually interesting that we're talking about concentration camps. That's what these fucking are.

Yeah. That's what the government is setting up. 100%. Yeah. And so these are the helpers, you know, and. They're taking action. And they, I mean, how much have they raised? I think that, so I think it's $20 million in 12 days.

And so you can go to reunite an immigrant parent with their child fundraiser for RACES by Charlotte and Dave. It's on Facebook. I will donate as well. Or, you know, donate to wherever you can that makes you feel good and makes you feel like, you know, your money's going to a good place. Yep.

Even if it's $5 fucking dollars, it's, it's a good thing to do. Yeah. Do that. And then my fucking hurry for this week will be, I just, I went to therapy this morning. And it was an especially good sesh with my therapist because I had been out of town for a week. That's always good.

But it was making me, I get, these days I'm very philosophical in therapy because I've been in it for so long. And I will say this, you know, there's lots of people who tell us I started therapy because you guys talk about it. And I want to say this to people who start and maybe they're feeling like plateau type of feelings. Like, oh, I've been in therapy for X number of years.

And I'm not getting what I thought I would get or something. Don't put some kind of weird expectation time limit on your therapy. Go to therapy and show up every week trying to learn something about yourself. I swear to God, if you can just stay in it. Like when I first went to therapy, I said to my therapist, I just need

to know how to not say things that I don't want to say out loud at work so that people don't hate me and I don't hate everybody. It was real basic and I thought she was just going to give me some tips and tricks and I'll be how it is there. I'll work that you don't do. Yes, exactly.

Just give me what do normal people do and teach me that. And I'm going to be out of here. Is there, do I put a jelly button in a jar every time I fucking rub my hand on the wrist? Did I say jelly button? You said a jelly button. But I don't see a can of wine anywhere near you. I am not drinking today.

Oh, this is all me. I could never blame it on the fucking boo. Jelly button. Jelly, it's jelly button. Yeah, no, it's, I guess my point is, like something, she was saying something about that we're trying to take off the armor of ego. That's what we were talking about today.

And how hard it is because it's about vulnerability. But it's taken me 13 years to be in a discussion where we're talking about taking off the armor of ego. Because for a long time, I wanted to talk about how I don't have any problems. But what's everybody else going to do? And how are we going to trick everybody else into doing what I want?

And I just will say, and there were times where, like, when I went through, when I left my ex and moved to New York, I stopped calling my therapist. And she would call me, like, every two to three weeks and be like, can we talk about why you don't want to talk to me? And I was just like, I can't talk to anybody. You're allowed to do that and still go back to therapy. The same therapist, too.

Yeah. They're not mad at you. If you want to switch, if you want to say they're mad at you, whatever. But I went back and she was like, I want to talk about why you didn't trust me to even. And I said, can we just not talk about that now? And then we sidelined it for three years.

And then we went back to it later. But I'm so thankful that I have this person that keeps me honest, that through, like, kind of dark times is the one that goes, yeah, but can I remind you? And that basically is like, that's all well and good, you know, your complaints and your whatever you want to do. You're trying to get away with.

But yeah, but how about we talk about disarming the ego? The real reason. That we all have problems is because we're so scared to be vulnerable or so scared to be ourselves and we're so scared to be in the moment. Or we become these people because of trauma, past trauma, or the way we were raised and all this crazy shit. Which is valid.

And our reactions about our trauma from the past are valid. It's the way our brains get trained to work because of what happened to us. But it doesn't mean that we have to live in it. It doesn't mean that we have to, like, continue to do it. Totally. We can retrain ourselves. And we can just try something new.

And I don't know. It just seemed for so long. I just didn't have any hope for myself for so long. Because it was like, nah, I'm just this way. And I'm kind of like this. And let's just have it be that way. It's never going to change. It's too much work to change.

I don't want to unpack this fucking painful shit. Right. And that's all fine. But that's the fear, telling you don't leave the house. It's not worth trying, you know, whatever. So I don't know. I love it. It's not easy, but it's so good for you.

Yeah. Let's say, again, it's psychology today on their website. It has a really great therapist and psychologist and psychiatrist directory. Just put your zip code in. A lot of them have photos. You're kind of like that woman has a kind face. I sure was in my elementary school too.

Like, that's kind of how I found mine. Same here? Yeah. Exactly the same. I found a couple therapists on psychology today. Yeah. And you get to shop until you find the one that you want to tell the worst possible thing you could

tell to. That's right. Shop around. Make it work for you. But keep on putting in the work. Yeah. Good job. We're proud of you.

And we're very proud of you. Very happy to be in this fucking community. This podcast has changed our lives in so many ways. But more than anything, it just makes us feel armed with so many incredible people and so many badasses and so many, I don't know. No, you're right. It's like a circuit.

It's whatever we're doing for you, you're also doing for us. It really, it's pretty amazing. And we feel lucky and reach out to people if you're feeling stressed out. And if you need help lately, it makes sense that you need help lately. We all do.

Yeah. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Thanks for listening. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, you want a cookie?

Good boy. Good boy.