My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 131 - Live at the Chinateatern in Stockholm

Episode Date: July 26, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover Nikita Bergenström and Sture Bergwall aka Thomas Quick.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you.

Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you. These four girls get out, you guys didn't know the song at all. Where are you from, New Jersey or something? What? No. Don't just start naming cities in California. We're trying to be cool in front of Stockholm people. And they named the worst possible city, which is my hometown.

Okay, now Irvine, happy birthday only. No, they don't know it, they don't even know it. That's what they're like. Oh my God, my head already hurts from laughing so much. Wow, this is so cool. Oh yeah, this is so cool. We are on a European concert tour. Sorry, guys.

Yeah, this is all a little surreal. It's quite strange, every night we're in a different European city that we've usually never been to before. And we keep expecting people to be like, we don't know what you're saying and we don't care. And instead, everyone speaks better English than we do. Sing's better happy birthday than we do. That's way better happy birthday song.

And it's super nice and just keeps bringing us chocolate. Wow, what a great, the chocolate industry is booming over here. I don't know if you guys know that. How was your birthday today, Karen? Oh, what was my ideal birthday? I'm 48 today, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

In my early 40s, I tried to hide my age and then once it kicked over 45, I was like, fuck it, who cares? Seriously, we're all going to be dead so soon. It's shocking. We're all on such a serious clock here. You guys don't know how the show goes? Yeah, we all die at the end. This is a Jonestown specialty.

Get ready. Yeah, that's why the ticket was so expensive. We kill you. Everyone reach under your seat. There's a chocolate. It's hot chocolate with a little bit of bad Kool-Aid at the bottom of it. No, but I really did spend my birthday the best way, dad, the best way that I possibly could have today.

I stayed in the hotel room and got room service twice. That's really, I'm sorry. I meant to go to the Nobel museum. I meant to do important things here in Stockholm. No? Okay, well, I didn't go there so stop telling me what to do. I already did it on my own accord. Yeah, I got a gorgeous breakfast with about seven beverages

and then a three o'clock rolled around and I was like, I'm not going to just go eat lunch somewhere like a rando tourist. So then I just got some stuff sent up. The lady was like, hi again. You're not supposed to do that. I've never seen this face before. Send someone else up. So at least like you're like their shift has changed.

That's right. So that they don't see you again. So much time has passed since the last time you ordered a ton of food from us, Miss Kilgarib. And we know that Trey is still in your room with ketchup crusting on the fucking plate. I always get like you, Georgia turned me on to getting the cheese plate or the charcuterie plate. I know those things stink up a room when you don't let the maid come in.

I never let the maid in. In fact, while I was sitting there, the maid tried to come in and I just kept going, no, no, no. And she still came in anyway. Very pushy. She was like, I know what's better for you than you know what's... She's like, I can smell that cheese plate from out here in the hallway. Your neighbors are complaining.

I'm your neighbor. She's just like, get Karen's cheese plate out of there. I can smell blue cheese from my bed. What did you do today? I... For my birthday. I basically got room service twice, but I did it in the restaurant in the lobby. So I did what you did.

I just had to put pants on for it. You just... You did it several stories below me. Yeah, but like, so basically I did the same thing you did. I just had to like put makeup on for it, which is not fun. I had really good intentions about... Normally when we go on tour, we truly stay in our rooms almost the whole time. Not on purpose.

It goes fast. Yeah. And we never do our homework beforehand. No. So we had to just sit there and be doing it. Yeah, but now we're in fucking Sweden. I mean... And fucking odds and shit.

It is... So a monumental waste of lots of things to not be outside. I might keep looking out the window like, you know, I have a sad disease or something. Look at... look at him walking and having relationships. So lucky. We did have fine time yesterday to go get a legit fucking massage, a Swedish massage. Have you guys heard of this? Oh my God.

I was like... It didn't even hit me. And I was like, oh yeah, you have to get a Swedish massage. Yeah. The lady... Here's how you know you have a good massage therapist. The woman looked at me and goes, you're supposed to get the relaxation massage. I think we should do lymphatic.

And I was like, let's do it. She could have been like, I'm going to sell you this series of medicinal vinegars. And I would have been like, yes, I'll buy all of them. Anything that Swedish massage therapist did I was going to do. It was awesome. There's all kinds of light pinchings and my arms were up for a while. She just made up a massage because she was like, I don't feel like rubbing anyone today. Let's just do this woman.

She looks like she doesn't really care. I'm going to just pinch her and she's an American. She's going to think it's a fucking thing. She's going to fall for it. I might charge her more than a Swedish massage. A Swedish massage. Yeah. She doesn't see anything I say.

I met my... They come out to collect you and bring you to your massage room and the woman came out and I swear to God 100 years ago I would have been her servant. She was like... It just didn't... It wasn't fair. She shook my hand and she had the softest skin, beautiful blonde, tiny features. Her skin was just gorgeous.

So just all her features are right here in her face. Real small. Yeah. Big head, small features. It's not a good combination. Like a balloon that someone had drawn a face on but then blown up. Yes, that's very regal and royal. But I definitely would have been kept in the kitchen in the maid's quarters.

For sure. For her. Like she was a princess. And then she was rubbing you. And I was like, let's get this happening. In your face, in your face, queen bitch. Poor thing. She did touch my nipple at one point.

Hold on. Hold on. Someone call the police. It was a slight graze. Probably accidental. I didn't care. I mean, maybe that's included. What if that was like one of the points where it's like relaxation, nipple graze.

Slight, awkward graze of your nipple. Awkward graze of your nipples that you're left to figure out what it might mean. Which is kind of romantic in a way. Like. I mean, it's not like, I don't, they're not, it's not like they get in the way. So you got to kind of work for it. Like this is all padding. You've really got to reach.

Yeah. Over. It's not like, oh, they're just everywhere. It's like. As opposed to these numbers. Oh, that's the thing, by the way. And I announced this on our first show in Dublin, but there's something that I've never been like this before. But because of this dress, I've normally worn a slip with this dress because it is so plunging.

But I forgot my slip. And then I was like, who gives a fuck? It's Europe. So now. Thank you. You have to. You lead with your strengths. You know what I mean?

You draw the eye to what's best about you. Just focus up here. Everybody. That's what I'm doing for age 48. Thank you. I have the. 48 is tits out year for you. Tits out.

Some have said I have the breasts of a 39 year old woman. So I'm just going to show them off. Speaking of, this is my favorite murder, the podcast. Oh, yes. Hi. That's. This birthday girl is Karen Kilgaran. And this servant girl is Georgia Hardstar.

I finally, I, speaking of clothes, finally replaced the black bra that I. But I took off under my clothes on the airplane and was like, I'll get that later and then didn't get that later. Never in my life have I, when that maid knocked on the door today, I jumped up to put my bra on so fast. Like I can't, I can't ever, that's never an option. Really? No God, these things loose.

Do you know? No. I think a long time ago it stopped being appropriate for me and I just haven't caught up to it yet. You're just pretending. Okay, I just don't want to know if I'm offending anyone with them. Like, I just don't, I can't. Right. Right.

No, thank you. They're like, they're like, yeah, we've been doing that over here for quite some time. Kind of what we do. Also. Yeah. You know, I just realized we've both, we've both held no to the shoes we brought. Yeah. To wear three shows in and we're like, I can't fucking wear these anymore.

I can't. These are my, I wasn't planning on wearing these on stage. I had these like fucking heels, you know, but Jesus Christ. I'm wearing clogs A as respect to you guys and then B because I know it will infuriate my sister when she sees pictures of it. She's fucking, why can't you just get a decent heel? I don't know. I don't have to, I guess that's the thing.

I'm out of the phase where I have to do stuff like that. I packed with so much enthusiasm and like the girl who packed my suitcase, the me who packed it was just like, had so many plans to do so many things. Every city we went to like, I brought four dresses, not even for the show, like to wear out and like the world and like vintage and like, this is a vintage tulip when I have to wear it in back in here. You know, like, she hasn't been doing that. It's like a clutch, a little purse.

In case we go out. Just to take down to the restaurant downstairs at the hotel and then you open it up. Here's my room key. Yeah. That's all that's in here. It's not, it's not happening, but I did. I have managed to go to a pharmacy in like every place we've been to buy all the weird shit you can't get in the US.

The beauty treatments that are like too chemically advanced. Yes. For American women. Give it to me. They will not allow us to have them. Give me all the over the counter shit that you can't get. Just be careful. You don't burn your eyes out because there could be some serious European shit in there.

Right. I might not be ready for that shit. I bought you a big tub. It's like diaper cream, but all the ladies are like, no, but you have to put it on your face. It's fucking amazing. Someone might be fucking lying to me. It's a prank.

It's totally a prank. 100%. Some troll, like 13 year old boy at home is like, you should totally try the diaper cream on your face. The diaper cream on your face, lady. I'm doing it. I did it. It works.

Every night in the mirror, George is like 100, 200, 300. Finally beautiful. I should get a manicure. I should. But we're halfway through at this point. I know. It's just going to be. Start chipping anyway.

Yeah. I, as the opposite of Georgia, of course, Georgia packed all her beautiful dresses and made plans and schemes. I think now that I look in my suitcase, I think I brought two pairs of sweats and like two pairs of underwear. All of the key ingredients for things you need to feel like a decent human being are not in my suitcase. It's so weird.

It's like the same black thermal shirt over and over and then like two pairs where I'm like, am I going to have to start rinsing and repeating these underwear? That's disgusting. Yeah. You might. I should buy some. I hear they have them here. I know, right?

Yeah. They have bras, for sure. Maybe if they have them, if God, if they had underwear on the room service menu, I would be set. Why don't they do that? Never look back. Oh my God. Someone write, Stephen, write that down.

Stephen. Stephen. He's under this gorgeous, hey, look, the price tag is still on it. You think they're going to return it? How many Kroner is it? 89. 89 million? Oh, sorry.

I really do think this is the most beautiful rug we've ever. It's gorgeous. Happened on. Stop it. You didn't make it. Too bad. We're going to ruin it tonight. Who brought their pens?

I don't know. Look. Listen. Should I tell them what my mom said? Please do. Because I think Oslo, when I told them, was a little offended. So tell me if this is offensive and I'll stop. I won't say it's a London tomorrow.

Let's really get this settled tonight. Yeah. Yeah. Before I tell anyone else, you guys will let me know, right? If I have something in my teeth, you know, you have to tell me. My mom, before I left, we don't ever talk, and then before I'm going to leave for somewhere, she has to talk to me because in case I die, then she's like, I'm a good mother. I said goodbye to her.

I said, I love you. So she called me and she was like, are you going to France? And I'm like, no, we're not going to France. And then she's like, OK, good. If you do go to France, because she was already going to tell me this. Yeah, she can change that story. Don't wear your Jewish star out. And I was like, what are you fucking talking about?

Hey, I don't wear a Jewish star ever in my life. I haven't since my fucking bat mitzvah. And B, like, I shouldn't, if that's the case, you shouldn't wear it in America. I think France is your fucking... That's exactly right. And, you know, they don't like Jews over there. What are you talking about? Oh, wait, she means World War II.

That's what it is, isn't it? She never... That's all she learned is up to World War II. So it's kind of like hanging around in the back of her mind, like, there's something I remember about it. It's a bad thing that happened in Europe. Jews were involved. Yeah.

Georgia still wears a Jewish star. I love that you just be rocking that star, like, hey, look, we're on tour. I'm highly religious. I'm super Jewish. And I'm here to represent. That's right. And then I'll get my, the blood of Christ crucifix that I love to wear on the weekends and...

You do love wearing that. You know, privately. You like that. I like the one where, like, his face looks like... My grandma had that painting where the thorns are piercing his skin, and so there's blood coming down his face, and it would be in her bedroom. So when I was little, I would have to go in there to take a nap, and I'd just be like, hey, man, that's a, gotta be a big boner killer to see that, like, in your bedroom, like,

your grandpa. Although my grandparents did have nine children, so I think it was funny, it might have been just the opposite. Yeah. Maybe they were into some weird shit. What a thing. I'm so sorry. Grandma, listen.

She can see and hear us. You talking to Steven or your grandma? Steven, I'm sorry about my grandparents. Steven. Steven doesn't like to think of that. Steven's at home with my cats. I know. They love him more than me, and I'm kind of okay with it at this point.

They look happy, you know, and... In the 1,000 Instagram story videos that he posts. Yes. Yeah. They, you know, they like to be photographed a hundred times an hour. Just all day long. That's what cats are for. Yeah, you know how cats love interaction, and they love things near their face?

They love millennials with asymmetrical hair and weird mustaches. Cats love that. Talking to them in a baby voice. You don't do that. I don't fucking ever talk to them in a baby voice. Yes, I fucking do. My God. I'm the most annoying.

I realize that Vince might not like it that I do that all day. You just realize that right now? No. Like recently, I was like, there's this, of some woman I follow on Instagram, and she had a baby, and the way she talks to her baby is like so irritating, and like, I don't mind most baby talk, the way you talk to her, but the way she does it is really good and annoying. And then I was like, oh my God, what if I, that's how I sound of Vince when I talk to

the cats. So I'm going to talk normally. I'm just going to have conversations with my cats from now on like this. Yes. We're going to have a nice chat. That's going to be fine. Shake hands. Walk away.

The business as usual. Clipboards. Yeah. Ties. That is actually how I talk to my dogs only because I'm by myself and I think it's funny. So I'll walk through and they just follow me around the house constantly thinking I'm going to drop food at some point. You do a lot.

I do a lot. It's kind of your thing. I do shed food constantly out of my huge pockets. Yeah. You always know where Karen is or just a trail of dog treats, triskets and shit. But I will turn around at them one point and go, oh my God, what kind of dog are you? It's my favorite thing. I think in their lifetime, I've asked them that 50,000 times.

I love it. Oh my God, what kind of dog are you? And then George's tails wagging like, is she going to give me food now? This is my favorite question when she asks this, it gets fucking crazy, man. Well, I wonder what my cats think that I keep asking them if they're a baby. Are you a baby? Are you a baby? But in a fucking annoying voice.

Like are you a human baby? Who's a baby? Are you a baby? Who's my baby? Who's a baby? Who's a little baby? Oh, just variations on the theme of babyness. Baby.

Yeah. Yeah. They got to be wondering who the fuck a baby is. They're like, I really think she wants a baby. That's what I think it's on the bottom of all of this. It's got to be it. Look at the little, uh, foot. Oh, it's gorgeously wrapped at the bottom so we don't have to look at some filthy Swedish

bottom of a table. I hear they're terrible over here. It's really jaunty. It's gorgeous. You shouldn't have like a, um, a table cloth, but now we just have a foot cloth. No, it's, this is, you know, this is going to be all the rage in America in like four years. We're seeing it first here.

Table cloths, how day class A over on the continent. They're using table, table shoes, socks, table socks, table socks, would have been better. Um, cool. Anything else we need to tell them about our trip so far? I think that's everything. Oh, should I really quick? Should I tell you about the cheese sandwich they gave me? Oh yeah.

Fuck. I actually tweeted a picture of it because it was so good. How, what, they were so cute. I think probably part of it was that we had to get up at three after our two Dublin shows, we had to get up at three 30 in the morning to go get a flight because we had to do a connection from Dublin, Dublin, Amsterdam to Oslo. And then when we landed at Oslo, our bags weren't there. So then we were just like hot and greasy and like, it's okay and like went to the hotel.

It was kind of exciting because it was the idea that we might not have to get dressed up to come on stage. And we have an excuse not to, but didn't happen. Yeah. Then we didn't get dressed up to go on stage. Yeah. Just like back at, but on the way to Amsterdam, they can't, they swung by and like in American almost every airline, they don't serve, serve food at all anymore.

So you have to like in the airport, you're like, I guess I'll get beef jerky and some gummy bears. Yeah. Exactly. And they're like, why don't I buy airport sushi? Why did I get a big yogurt that just exploded in my purse? It's always some problem banana. So why I'm just sitting on this flight all like, good, what time is it?

What day is it? And the lady comes by and just hands me this little box that looks like it's a China pattern. And then when you open it up, it's just a cheese sandwich. And I was like, cheese sandwich, what are they did? I like turned and cried out the window. It was the most delicious cheese sandwich. And then I look over at Georgia's, Georgia's in the same aisle, but on the other side, we don't like to sit next to each other, she's taking pictures of her cheese sandwich.

All these different, I think you were holding it up like this and then doing selfie, but oh, I was with your eyes on like that. Yeah, I was. And then I realized that I had not had enough water because this was just all crinkles. So I didn't post it. I made a Botox appointment for when I get home anyway. More Botox. Yeah.

All right. I'm just as a 48 year old, let me just say the wrinkles keep coming. You can Botox all you want. I think that's the saddest thing about like in the 90s, there's a lot of American actresses got a shit ton of filler because someone told them like, it's okay if you smoke. We'll just fill in the lines around your lips with filler, which they did and look great for like nine months. But then there are lines in between the filler lines.

Is that what happens? And then there's some stories of the filler floating around their face. So the filler leaves the lip area and just goes wherever the fuck it wants. Wait, am I making a huge mistake by injecting shit into my face? Well, have you done filler? Yes. Have you really? Yes.

You look great. Oh, thank you. It's so natural. Well, it's gone now. Oh, it's just dissolved. It's bloated behind your ears. The back of my head has never been perkier. That's how you get small features in a big head.

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And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true

self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Should we? Yeah. On that and on that. No.

On that. Yes. So weird. Gorgeous. It is. Yes. All the weird things about this podcast, which there are many, the fact that we get applauded when we sit down might be the weirdest fucking one this far.

I love it. And oh, this is a true crime comedy podcast. That's right. You know, while you, you know, and like it, but did you hear not everyone applauded? Because some people just wandered in off the street. Some people got brought here by a really pushy spouse or partner or best friend who is like, I don't care. Right?

Okay. This is for this parts for you guys. You were like the person that you're here with was like, I don't care what you like or don't like. We're coming to this show because it's my passion. Remember that time that, you know, I, I picked you up at the airport and then bought you gas or something like that. And then so now it's the big get back.

So sometimes it's a little bit sensitive because we're going to be talking about horrible crimes that happen to real people and it's terrible. But then also because it's a personal conversation between two friends that's now public, incredibly public and recorded because we're, we have anxiety and the best way to deal with that is not to be normal and kind. It's through humor. It's through to laugh about things. So, so right.

It's just the way it turned out, but we're not, you know what I mean? We're not in the, well, look, and the bottom line is if that situation makes you comfortable, get the fuck out right now. That's right. No, it can get any better. Everyone's like, oh no, they want me to leave. Don't go, please. No.

We have anxiety. I already told you. Don't hurt her feelings. It's my birthday. It's not my birthday. But if suddenly I think it's my birthday, that doesn't make any sense. I love it though. It's my birthday too.

Okay. Well, I'm going to go first because mine is particularly sensitive. Thank you. You got this. Just do it. All right. You ready? We don't usually get Evian water.

I know. We just say that. We really don't. We usually get water from a company you've never heard of. It's like the local water from the tap. Yeah. It's like mount tap water. Drink up suckers.

I love that we both, you can tell we're both fancy because we both like labeled it out. You can be like, look at this, you guys, oh my God. Although whenever they post on Instagram, everyone on Instagram is like, oh, they must have made it. They made it. They have Evian. Evian. That's like their shitty tap water here.

I know. Nobody fucking drinks Evian, but they're like, it tastes like nickels to us. That's prison water. Everyone knows that. Prison water. Prison water. Is that a big name? Okay.

Oh, here is the fucked up story of Nikita Bergenstrom. Oh, we have to find a translator. Oh, that's right. First, I thought you were still saying the last name. That'd be a long name. We are in countries where now, normally in America, we can't pronounce things. That's where we're from. Now we're in places you should have fucking seen us in Oslo.

You should have seen what was happening. There were things where like, we'd be like, is it Rolf Stalter? And they'd be like, it's okay, but what the fuck? And they were so nice, like they didn't even correct us half the time. So we're like, we got it right. And they're like, no, you didn't, but we don't want to be rude. Actually the first girls that we met in the meet and greet afterwards, this girl walks up and goes, just so you know, we don't care how you pronounce it.

I was like, God, I wish we'd met you beforehand. Yeah. Oh, so anyway, we're going to ask one of you to help us. So this guy's really into it. Do you speak, do you speak Swedish? Okay. Stay there. No, no, no.

Nope. You're out. So basically what happens is when we say something wrong, everyone's, Karen loves him. Oh no. Karen's new best friend. What's your name? Miyaku.

Oh my God. Miyaku? Is that a common name? It's actually Irish. Irish? I don't think so. She loves him. That's how you know.

Okay. We're going to go to you for help. Okay. Okay. So you can't say like, I don't know, or this is weird or anything like that. You have to give us answers. Just raise your hand though. Yeah.

All right. Yeah, especially if we say something and everyone in the crowd is like, oh, that's not true. We really need you to be like, it's okay, it's not true. Just we need you. All right, man. He's so sad he doesn't get to come on stage, just like, I don't want to do it anymore. All right.

So a lot of this was translated in a translator on Google and it does it because there's not a ton of English articles about this. Why did I pick it? That's a great question. There's a lot of questions. Can I just say one really quick? Yeah. I think it's on my favorite Twitter this morning.

Somebody wrote in Swedish to us this morning and a message about the show tonight. And when Google translate, when the translation came up, it said, I'm so pepper to come to your show tonight. Is that a thing? That's the cutest thing I've ever heard. So like saying I'm so pepper, but in Swedish is like a thing you guys say. Pepper. Peppered?

Or pepper? Pepper. Yes, I'm doing that from now on. It seems like a mistake. Like Google, you don't know how to translate, but it's actually like cutest. That's it. Okay. Okay.

Right off the bat, here's an impossible to pronounce name. So Nikita Bergenström. He was known originally as Juha Vieco Valjecala. Really? Are you guys just being supportive? I appreciate it. He's born on June 13th. You didn't say that last name.

I know because they were applauding over it, so I just really quickly got it out. In Pory Finland. I love you guys. We might not need you. We might already be great at this. Do I speak Swedish? Oh my God. He was the only child.

His mother was said to be a nervous woman and his father is described as absent and conflicted. How do they know if he's absent? Early on, it was apparent that their son had some mental issues when he was hyperactive and he suffered from infantile rage eruptions. I have those. Can you imagine a baby just like super pissed off? Oh, cute.

I don't want to fucking do that, which is like, oh shit, we made a mistake. When he was six years old, his mother took him to a counselor and that began his long cycle of school homes and youth prisons. He was shorter than his peers at school, so he was beaten and bullied and in turn he beat up and bullied the kids who were younger and less, whatever, strong than he was. When he would fight them and beat them up, he would order them to kneel and force them to pray for mercy. So he was like immediately a bad dude as a kid, like problem child immediately.

You're not interpreting that as he's very religious. I mean, Google translate, that's on you. By the age of 15, he had already been arrested by the police 65 times. That's too many. By the age of 18, you said? 15. I wish I could do fast math and be like, you mean twice a month or whatever. I mean, like, yeah, even if it never happened again, that's too many at a lifetime.

That's when you know it's time to. That's 63 more than I've been arrested. That's for sure. Stop it. I love it. This is where you find out that I'm like a hardened criminal. That's why they always pull you aside and customs and grill you. I decided to wait till Stockholm to tell you by the, by then in August 16th, 1982, he sent

to us for the first time in Sweden and he's arrested for theft, snattering. What? What? What? What is snattering? Hold on. Hold on. Snattering.

It's shoplifting. Oh, snattering is a way better word cooler. I'm so peppered because the guy got arrested for snattering. This is awesome. Also for damage and unlawful driving damage. Is that when you're like dry like, yeah, with your palm? That's your damage. Then he met Marita, Ruta, Rudolami, Rudolami, then he met Marita, Marita, Rudolami sounds

like an Italian name, Marita, Ria, Rudolami. She was the total opposite of him. She was laid back and chill and kind of a meek girl. They met while Marita was sitting on a park bench, then he drives by in a stolen car fucking pulls up to him, her, which every girl who's like, I'm born in my hometown is now just like, I'm in love with this dude. And he says, hey, this is what I took from it and it's probably not how it went, but he goes, hey, I'm a rock musician and they fall in love based on this story I translated.

Great. What if the real story is he's a geologist? Either way, so she basically becomes his little subject, he's like this fucking rocker dude and she's just, he got what he always dreamed of, which someone had hypnotic power over her, they said. And she had a twin sister that relationship goes downhill. The two, Marita and Juha have a terrible relationship, sisters like fuck this dude, she, yeah, didn't like him, which is like, what sister likes her sister's sister for?

My sister's always like, becomes too chummy with the dudes I'm with. And I'm like, get away from him. Leave him alone. After you break up, they still hang out. Yes. It's true. Really? It's not good.

Not hang out, but are like Facebook friends. My sister is never interested in anything I'm doing ever. And the one time she, like the best thing she ever did for me was when I was in my 20s and I became obsessed with this guy. Like I was obsessed. I was also on speed, so that was affecting the love that I was feeling and I couldn't stop. I would talk about this guy all the time and I was like, whatever.

Your eyes were just huge. The whole time. So much talking and smoking, but she was so skinny. I was the skinniest I've ever been. And then it gave me epilepsy. What? There's a lesson. There's a lesson.

I know I shouldn't crack up at that. It's true though. I know. But as I was obsessing over this guy and talking to my sister about it, I was like, and he showed up at a party and he was asking people where I was. And my sister and I are on the phone on the other end, she just goes, he sounds like a dork. And then I couldn't like him anymore after that.

I was just like, yeah, that is actually kind of dorky and it's pretty lame. I love it. Crush killer. Your sister, Laura, is a real talker. She doesn't give a fuck. Yep. Okay. So they fall in love.

At some point, Nikita is the name he eventually changes his name to, which is way easier to pronounce. At 22 years old, he's released from prison for being there for certain reasons. I don't know. Snattering. Snattering, probably. And damage. And damage.

Um, he's released from prison in Turku, Turku. Puckin, you're like five for five right now. This is the only place I've ever been where you actually spell it like it's pronounced or you're really nice. Yeah. Are they just being nice? Yeah. Are they just being nice?

Oh, it's Finnish. Okay. Oh, the Finnish are here representing. Great. The Finnish are here to say, it's our language that's easy. Okay. Yeah. Got it.

And also we have good chocolate too, probably. I would imagine. Okay. So May 1st, 1988, he's released and he and Merida start wandering through Sweden and Finland. Merida's 21 at this point and on, and they're just kind of like assholes. They like steal cars. They're just like living this life of, uh, they, they think they're fucking Bonnie and

Clyde or Sid and Nancy, which is like, Oh God, that's so tired and like fucking figure your shit out. You know what I mean? So it's so 20s. Yeah. It's the 1920s. Uh, but it's the 80s. Is that what you mean?

No. Cause wasn't that one gone? Oh no, no. That was the, yeah. It was the 1920s. Well, Bonnie and Clyde. Yes. That's what I meant.

Like when you're in your 20s, you think that's cool. You know the human age, 20. Well, both work technically, but you're right and that way definitely works too. No, you don't have to be nice. I'm trying to be nice. I appreciate it. Wait. Sorry.

Can I just do a quick sidebar? I'm always in forever. You guys. Abba reunited. What? I thought, you guys don't care that much. You saw it coming. You saw it coming.

Okay. Just remember it. They're like, we know we're from here. It was our idea. They made that dinner that they were going to do that. Okay. But then they are there, Bonnie and Clyde, stupid 1920s solid. So they were with, they had a car that they had stolen and they are in, this isn't going

to be right because there's a weird, there's a, there's a thing over this letter that isn't a new law. Oh. Oh. Oh. Okay. Oh. Oh.

Got it. So they, they're there, they're at a church and you really should be up here. Actually do you want to just do this? They had been drinking liquor and eating chips and they're kind of just fucking around in this car in the small town on being assholes. Then Nikita wants to steal a bicycle that he'd seen before. So he, they're walking by this like, what greedy. I know.

Well, okay. So that's, it gets fucked up. Here we go. Okay. All right. That was all fun. Now. So they're walking by this house.

It's a beautiful neighborhood, I guess, with like high end houses and stuff. They see this bike. He wants to steal it. He grabs it and starts, puts it on his shoulder and just walks away with it. And the family, I spit, the family, I'm just wondering why I didn't ride away. It's faster. It's lighter, smoother. Isn't it less conspicuous instead of lifting a bike above your head anyway?

So the owners of the bike and the house are Sten Nielsen and his 15 year old son Frederick and they get in their car and follow them, you know, the chase ends at the cemetery where Sten and Frederick are both like, give us back our fucking bike and Nikita pulls out a shotgun. Yeah. And he makes them get on their knees and he executes both of them. This 15 year old kid and his father. It's horrifying.

And then it gets even worse when their mother heard the, heard the gun blast. Her name's Ewa, E-W-A. Ewa? Oh, cool. Okay. Ewa. Oh, okay. Ewa, she comes to the cemetery to see what's going on and he stabs her to death.

Oh. This dude is an absolute piece of shit. So their friend found them later and the bodies later and at this point Nikita and Marita had fled and they had fled for seven days through Sweden and the newspapers, of course, call them the 80s Bonnie and Clyde, which is like so tired, as I keep saying. 60 years old, right. But the police managed to trace them because their car tires, they had kept the car that they had stolen originally and they tracked them down in Pajala.

Paya. See, this is why we picked Palaia. They're arguing with you. They're you than us. Hold a sec. Are you from Irvine too? Pajala. Pajala.

Okay. Thank you. Isn't that a rice dish? That's why I knew I was saying it wrong. It sounded way too much like that. So then one of the most extensive manhats in Swedish history ensues, they find them there and they're arrested, wait, okay, and then they're arrested in Odense, Denmark. Odense.

Thank you. Denmark. Okay. Thank you. Sorry. The same morning that they're caught is that the memorial service for the Nielsen family is held and after the service, the mourners get to find out that they finally got caught. So at the trial, Merida and Nikita blame each other for the crimes.

Of course. So it wasn't Trula. No, it wasn't Bonnie and Clyde. No. They didn't go out like that. It also, it was more Sid and Nancy, basically, she don't want. A psychiatric evaluation for both found them to be mentally competent, but they find that Nikita suffered from a psychopathic personality.

He had antisocial and narcissistic personality disorder with uncontrolled aggression and lack of empathy. Remember when he was a baby and he was fucking raging? Turns out you don't grow out of that, I guess. That sticks around. Yeah. There's no way to... Yeah.

I mean, maybe. You can probably try. Not for you guys. We all got this. Maybe if you did yoga or something. Baby yoga is a thing. Lymphatic massage. I guess you might help.

Yes. And then the court believes Merida's version events, which is that Nikita was responsible for the murders completely. She was yelling at him to stop, which we're like, do we believe you? So this was his 12th criminal conviction and it resulted in a life sentence and deportation on three counts of murder. And then Merida got two years for complicity in assault and battery, but they released her after serving half her time.

And then Nikita's transferred to Finland to serve the rest of his sentence. He escapes from prison four times. Oh, shit. In 1991, he tried to escape, was arrested immediately. Then his first real escape was in April 94 from Rihimaki prison in Finland. Rihimaki? They're like, yeah. They're going to give it to us.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He took... He took the prison's English teacher as hostage. What? Yeah.

I mean, for me, I need better books than Bonnie and Clyde to read about. I want some of that Da Vinci code too. And he flees with a car. The teacher escapes with no harm done to him, thankfully, and Nikita's apprehended. He's not very good at escaping. He's kind of escaping. He's just not a good... The follow-through of staying escaped.

Exactly. Look, any idiot can escape. You got to stay escaped to have it matter. And for what it sounds like, the prisons are not like they are in the U.S., which are horrible. So you can just kind of, they're like, please don't leave. And then Nikita's like, dude, I swear to God, I'm not going to leave. I am not. It's not happening.

I respect you, and I respect this whole system. The English teacher guy, I dig him. Love him. Love books. Love to learn. Yeah. I love to stay where you want me to stay. In 1997, he tries to escape again.

On May 13, 2002, he escapes from a prison, and no, no. Oh. You know that town, Nono? It's right outside of... Here we go. Payaselka. Nope. They don't even know it.

It's finished. It's finished. He's blaming you guys. It's finished with his arms crossed. You should be able to do this. It's finished. Then he... Okay.

So, meanwhile, all these women are writing in fucking love letters in prison. He gets married when he's in prison. He escapes with his wife, and then he goes back to prison because it doesn't work again. Like she springs him out of jail somehow? I don't. It didn't. There's no articles in English. I just want to make this clear.

I'm doing my best. And then he comes back and tries to commit suicide by hanging. That doesn't fucking work either. April 19, 2004, with a 24-year-old person in the prisoner, he escapes again. It says fellow, which is what it translated to, which I think is adorable. Fellow. Just a guy with a bowler hat. Yeah.

Like one of these mustaches. Seaman! I'd love to escape with you. Right this way. He said, I'll be the Bonnie Deer Clyde. I love that film. And then the guards, but the guards are like, hey dude, after a few hundred meters, the guards are like, no.

And like turn him around and point him in the direction of the jail, and he goes back. You know? They're like, stop it. Yeah. Stop it. Then he escapes again in 2006 for the fourth time, this time from the labor prison in Hamina. Hominah. Hominah, hominah, hominah.

They're like, ha, ha, fuck you. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, get one right. Yeah. On November, then in 2006, okay, so he escapes this time for like a week, but they swarmed the apartment that was suspected to be his hideout, and I think he hides in like a bathroom and then they raid the place and he goes back to prison. So they'll always check the bathhouse. That's not the one place they won't look.

That's the closet in like the rafters. You gotta get under that house if you want to not get caught. Someone wrote that he must have had good reason to keep escaping because being in prison in Finland is almost like not being in prison at all. He got to, sorry, I can't credit any, I didn't write down who wrote this, but he got to have pride that visits with the wife during weekends or special occasions, like the weekend. They're allowed to, prisoners are granted permission of leave after they've served half their sentence if there's an, especially if there's an important reason, AKA they can

go on fucking vacay. And it's paid for by the government. Is this true? I mean, you guys are amazing. I'm not leaving here. Also, when you're in prison, wouldn't you get so good of thinking up special occasions? Oh yeah. You're just like, my dad loves turkey.

So anyhow, we're going to have a feast. I've got to take off Sunday to the following Thursday. And if I could get a ride from one of you guards, that would be awesome. I could try it. I can escape, but I'm just sick of walking. I'm so tired of climbing. So it's okay, they're allowed to leave all the time, but, but here's one of the rules. The cheapest way of travel must be used.

Oh, good. You cannot have first class. Did you kill a family? Well then, no limousine service for you. The thing about it that I love is that this is what actually happens in the US, even though we're like, don't let that happen. But you guys are like, no, no, that's going to happen. Like we let people have way too early, but we don't, but it's bad.

But while they're there, it's very bad. That's true. Yeah. So then when they get out, they're just happy and great. Yeah. Everything's fine. They're like, I'm different now. And they can't leave the Nordic countries.

Okay. They're like, but I have to go to Ibiza. It's a special occasion. It's special to me. Then on October in 2006, the Finnish Supreme Court, they, the option of pardoning Nikita comes up in the summer of 2008. Clearly I did. This is confusing.

And Sweden's like, fuck that shit. They get like really pissed off about it. Swedish justice minister Beatrice, it's not ask, but I, is it? That's an awesome name. Don't doubt yourself ever again. Okay. Never, ever again. It's me.

Beatrice ask. What does she do? She's the justice minister. That's right. They do not step to Beatrice ask. She was like, that's interesting because he had escaped so many times and committed further crimes and tried to escape again, it says. But everyone was like expecting it to happen.

He'll have spent 20 years behind bars, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, okay. So in 2008, he changes the name Nikita and he's released on conditional terms in 2008. You guys, I just don't know. Did anything happen in 2008? But yes, he's arrested again for breaking his terms. He admitted to endangering the traffic, stealing a vehicle and driving a vehicle without a license and driving an unlicensed taxi. What?

That's some serious snattering right there. You fucking, he car jacked a cab driver. I guess so. Jesus. He doesn't give a fuck. There are zero fucks to give and like, yeah. So his conditional release is made permanent in 2008. Oh, what a year.

After the Helsinki court granted him a pardon after 19 years of serving a sentence and this dude, Dan Axel Carlson was one of those who witnessed the bodies being found at the cemetery and he said, it's not good that he was pardoned, but what can one do? I'm like, amen. Shit. Yeah. Then he said, he's kind of right. Then he said that people don't talk about it in the town.

People want to forget it, which is like, oh, yeah. So then, okay, I think he was in prison as of 2012 and writing his autobiography and then he was in prison again for, among other things, sabotage and ill treatment. What of whom? Don't know. I hope not of that gentleman. The fellow? The good fellow.

According to the Helsinki district court, he had burned and beaten two people about a year earlier. What the fuck? Wait, what? And then there's just no more updates about him. So he might be here. Oh my God. So keep your eyes peeled, you guys.

This is the fucking monster who murdered Sten Nielsen, Frederick Nielsen, and Eva Nielsen. That's that. All right. All right. That was great. Whoo. It's good. Sweating.

Yeah. These, oh, these, it's hard enough to do these stories than to do them in front of people who are so much smarter than you. Very frustrating. And some people who you, like, and also it's mattering of people that you know aren't into it and you're saying things wrong and you forget your deodorant so you had to buy some at the pharmacy and it's like not working the way you're hardcore deodorant. A lot of issues.

That you get in the U.S. works because the deodorant there is hardcore because they don't give a shit that it's killing you. Right. Here they're like, we don't want to kill you. So you should smell. It's fine. It's fine. I know.

I mean, I like it. We have aluminum in ours. Okay. No, that was great. That was really good. Thank you. Thank you. All right.

I am going to do Sweden's, I guess you would say, most infamous serial killer, Thomas Quick. You know this one? You don't? Not at the top of my head. This is, this is the best. Like every time we do a show, this is what you go like, I'm going to do this thing. And it's just like, yeah, that's great.

Okay. Tell me everything. So this story is so fucking not so like it's so dark and awful and details are horrible. And then there's like a left turn and then there's like a right turn and then you're like, what is happening? Is this whole thing? Like I watched, there's a documentary on it. That's really great.

But as I was watching it, I'm like, is this whole thing fake? Like it just goes into the realm of like so beyond surreal. All right. So we'll just start it out. Okay. The documentary is called the Confessions of Thomas Quick. And there's also, there's a bunch of books. I'm sure you all know.

One I was reading from was the making of a serial killer by Hannes Rostem. Wow. All right. So we're going to be talking about a man named Stuart Bergwall at first. Okay. So stay with me. I'm there. I'm here.

Stuart. She, she pronounced that I do my best and then she fucking corrects me. Yeah. We have never heard these vowels before. Our language is easy to do. It's flat and right out your nose and just talk like this and everything you do with the there's 17 extra things circles above letters, dots, circles. Last night in Oslo, every person that came to the VIP, I'd go, what's your name?

And they'd go, he's the good, but the bit. And then I'd go, it's a book at that. And they'd go, Kristen. Yeah. Like they just, everyone just has a name for stupid Americans. Yes. The stupid American translation is what Kimberly, just call me Kimberly. Just, I don't even care if you know my name.

Just let's get it over with. Okay. Student boo. That now we're on the verge of me being sarcastic at you and that's rude and I'm sure there's some people are like, fuck you, lady. How about you learn one other language besides your own fair, which is fair. We agree. I'm going to get Rosetta Stone.

I swear. Okay. He's born April 26, 1950 in Fallon. Are you from Fallon? Do you know that a lot of this takes place in Fallon? Are you so excited about Fallon right now? Her friend is holding her back. I know.

Okay. I'm sorry, but I'm going to go to the Fallon expert. Okay. You've been great. You've been amazing. You got my back. Appreciate it. For the great Irishman, Michael O'Flanterie, who helped us out for that whole last story.

Thank you so much. What's your name? Maria. Oh, I can say that. Okay, Maria. I'm going to go right to you and I'm going to make Maria carry jokes. We're going to have the best time. Okay.

All right. So Stura is born. He has, there's seven kids in his family. He has a twin sister. The father is depressive and absentee. How do they know he's depressive and he's an absentee? His mother basically has to do everything by herself. So the kids, of course, when you're in a family with that many kids, you know, get the individual

attention that all these asshole children these days seem to all get. Yeah. Oh. A turnout fine. Oh. Oh, someone's home when you get home from school. Oh. Oh, you get a cheese sandwich made for you.

People like you. This is a Pentecostal Christian family. He is the black sheep of the family. He can never do anything right. And he has some problems in school when he's 14. He realizes he's gay, which back in this time, which is like, you know, 1964 was actually a psychological diagnosis, like it was not allowed. It was a serious problem.

So, you know, he had that discomfort with him all the time. Then he starts getting in trouble for touching classmates in school. And he basically just gets labeled the problem child. He, come on, Mariah, Mariah, Mariah, don't. He also writes some fucked up poetry. If you watch the documentary, there's a poem that they read and they put like the text over like a snowy pathway and it's like, I pluck out your feathers. I bite off your tongue and it's like, what, oh, oh, okay.

So as we all do in our teens, he soon begins experimenting with drugs to escape his feelings. Oh, sure. Escape those feelings. Quick reminder that feelings are still there when you sober up. Yeah. That's the thing about drugs. That's the thing about feelings. Drugs and feelings.

Do not cancel each other out. And he was specifically super into amphetamines. Oh, fine. Me too. Me too. So he is super skinny. Okay. He's 19.

He gets a job at a rest home and there he meets the manager of the rest home who's 20 years a senior, a man named Tom, and they fall in love. It's his first real relationship and he like really falls in love for the first time. He finally feels like he's okay with himself and he's connected to another person and kind of like everything's going good. Tom was also struggling with his sexuality because again, it wasn't an okay thing in any way back then. So several months into the relationship, he gets to work and finds out that Tom has killed

himself. Oh no. It's horrible. So after kind of getting his life together and having things be on track, he just goes right back to the drugs. Goodbye. It's a mess of drinking, right? Oh, hey.

Bye. So he ends up getting a job at, how did I say it? Fallen hospital? Fallen. Fallen. Like someone fell down earlier. They were, they've fallen. And they keep falling.

And they keep falling. They keep falling and falling and falling. And I'm falling in and out. That'll be my reminder. Okay. Okay. So soon after he gets a job in a hospital, which I always hate these stories of people that are fucked up and then get jobs in hospitals because you're never more like, you're all

sick in the hospital with an IV and then there's some creeper coming into your room. Like, yeah, I'm trying to work some shit out. And you probably like, you probably don't like, if you work in an office and you're crazy, everyone's like, that's a crazy guy in the office, but you're in a hospital where all the shit's going on all the time. And then there's like, you're not going to be like, that guy is like particularly crazy. No. They're just fucking like not sleeping and losing their mind.

Yeah, exactly. Everything's always in emergency mode. So you can just kind of be like, it would be if you were super calm, that people would be like, something's wrong with that guy. So the problem is that he starts molesting children in the hospital. So he gets actually caught. He does it four times. And the last time it's a nine year old boy is sleeping.

He starts to sexually assault him. The boy wakes up and starts screaming, so then he tries to cover his mouth, tries to make him be quiet and starts to strangle him. The boy, his nose starts bleeding. So then Stuart runs away and thinks he killed him because of the blood. The kid survives and Stuart is convicted for this attack and the three other attacks. And he is sent to a mental hospital. So much like in your story, as his treatment progresses, he's, you know, starts to tell

us therapists. I have thoughts of, I have sadistic thoughts. I have thoughts of pedophilia and he's very honest about like what's going on with him. So then he starts being seen on an outpatient basis because he is so honest with everybody that they were like, this is great. Thank you for your true feelings. That's all we want. That's all we ask.

We just hate lying so much. So why don't you take a hike? All right. So then in 1974, he moves to Uppsala. Wow. Wow. Good job. Shit.

Love it. I'm going to come on vacation here and pronounce things all the time. He's 23. He's thinking he wants to become a doctor. He's interested in psychiatric analysis. I bet he fucking is. They always are. They always are.

But really his life starts to seriously revolve around drugs. He drinks excessively. He takes a lot of Valium and... He pointed me like that. Sorry. You know, Georgia. Valium. You can't.

Constantly on it. You've never talked to me about Valium in any way. Don't think I've ever taken it. But I've done meth. You never did a line of meth and then immediately took a Valium. They call that the Uppsala Surprise. Sorry. Here's the other thing that he likes to do.

This is so insane. He sniffs trichloroethylene, which is an industrial solvent. Oh, man. So he pours some basically, you know, some stuff that gets up like industrial strength glue. But if you want to get rid of that glue, just pour some of this stuff on there. Rub it around. Take a big huff of it.

Oh, I've done that. Now you're... Oh, I've never done Valium, but I've done that. No, that's not true. They were all like, oh, fuck. Oh, no. Okay. So he starts to go to...

There's a gay bar called Agda that he goes to and he meets another student named Leonard Hugglund. H-G-L-U-N-D. Hugglund. Oh, I've got this. You two are going to have to fight later, by the way, and we'll see who ends the fight to the death. Yeah.

Okay. So he meets this guy. They go back to Leonard's apartment and while that guy's in the bathroom, Studa sniffs some of his special solvent that he loves so much. So when the guy comes out of his bathroom, Studa thinks that he's a monster and he picks up a butter knife and starts stabbing him. A butter knife. A butter fucking knife.

So he leaves in there, he stabs him 12 times, leaves him there bleeding out. He's never arrested for this crime. He actually, when he's caught for it, the authorities are like, well, he was already in a mental hospital, so we're just going to send him back to the mental hospital. So they just send him back. So he basically and essentially faces no consequences for this stabbing attack. So then he's basically out again in a matter of months. So then after this, some of the articles, it was like, he had such a terrible time,

he never did that drug again, which is like, oh, that's good. And so that instance made him get his life together. So he spent all of the 80s sober, which is a huge accomplishment, actually. My mom couldn't even do that, I mean, very few people could. But then he, at the end of the decade, he starts, he gets back on drugs in 1990, and this is nuts, like he clearly went for it. He's 40. He and an 18-year-old accomplice decide they want to rob a bank, but they're not, they

don't want to go to the bank and rob it. So what they did is they put on Santa Claus masks and they went to the bank manager's house and basically did a home invasion. They knock on the door of the bank manager, answers it, they rush in, they have knives and a gun, and while the 18-year-old takes the bank manager back to the bank to steal money, Sura stays with the mother and the boy who's in the house, and for like two hours like threatens them and is crazy and on drugs and super scary, saying horrible things like he is going to die of AIDS so he doesn't care what happens, like just horrible

psychological trauma. They're caught later that day because they're drug-adult idiots, and so he ends up getting sent to, I believe it's pronounced, Sotter Mental Hospital? Sat there? I'm like a monkey that you train, it's just like, I can talk, I can talk. She'll do anything for applause. Sat there! Okay, so this is like once the family who up until this point had been like you had

a hard time, you have mental illness, whatever, they'd tried to be supportive of him as he had gone through these things, but this was the final straw where they were like everyone stopped talking to him, you're on your own. So after two years, he's in this, he's at this place, and this is basically a prison, it's like a mental hospital prison kind of thing, but he's lonely, he feels disconnected, he also thinks that he's uninteresting in his therapy sessions, he feels bad about not having good stories to tell. I feel that sometimes too.

I mean, you just want to jizz it up for your therapist. So one day he's out, his therapist took him to, there's a lake near the mental hospital, they were there to go swimming, and he turns to his therapist and said, what would you say if I told you that I'd done something really bad? And she's like, what you talking about? And then he's like, why did she swim? Okay. Well, this, it goes into this whole thing, but this, say it again, Sotter?

Sotter. Well, I mean like Sotter, okay, that was it. Can you help me remember Sotter? Sotter, yeah, yeah, because I'm already trying to remember four other fucking names. Basically they were trying to do an innovative thing where they thought if they took these criminals and they put them through enough therapy and got them to remember their own bad, terrible childhood memories, they believed that all of this criminal behavior was based on bad childhoods and traumatic experiences as children.

So they thought if they could be in therapy long enough and like basically bring up these repressed memories of usually sexual assault or abuse, whatever bad thing happened to them as kids, that they would basically see the error of their ways, they would see why they're doing these criminal acts and they wouldn't do them anymore. That was the theory. And so everything it seems like was, it was all about being very humanizing and stuff. So they're, you know, they're just at the lake, like people like to be. And he basically tells her, what if, what if I tell you that I murdered someone?

And of course, you know, she gets out of the lake. No. She's like, now I hate swimming. No, he has her full attention and she's like, well, what are you talking about? And he basically kind of is mysterious and walks away. So now he's, he's like, gets this idea that this is a, this is a good way to get people's full attention. So for sure, he, he tells the therapist that he wants to now be called Thomas Quick, okay,

in a therapy session. And that was based on his mother's maiden name was quick. And Thomas was the first name of a boy that he says he murdered when he was 14 years old. And so everyone's like, what is happening? We didn't realize that we had a murderer here. And so, and it didn't matter because the statute of limitations was up. So it wasn't like they could, they weren't going to prosecute him for it, but this begins his confessions of these people, these children that he's murdered.

So the first confession that he gives in, in therapy, he says that he murdered a boy named Johann Asplund, and this was a boy that he was in 1980, he was 11 years old and he went missing on his way to school. So these are real? They're true? The, the, the cold cases are real. Yes. Okay.

So this boy went missing on the way to school in 1980. Okay. It was a huge story at the time. There was like the night that they discovered he was missing, hundreds of people were searching for him. And but no, he was never found, nobody was ever found. And it was just a cold case. It was a famous cold case.

So Thomas, the new Thomas Quick tells his therapist, he lured Johann into his car, driven him to the forest, killed him, raped him, stuck a knife through his heart. So the, of course, the therapist is like, that sounds great. I'll be back in one second and then fucking books it up the hallway. Is she, yeah, is she still in her bathing suit? It's a different day. Towel around her face? No, she's trying to get the water out of her ear.

Sorry. I did not hear you right. I have all this lake water in my ear. Well, of course, the whole staff is on high alert because they're like, holy shit, this guy's actually a murderer. And so he becomes the most important patient at this hospital now. And so they, they were like, this is perfect for our new aggressive treatment where this is how we're going to treat mentally insane criminals.

And this, this guy is going to be like, it's going to work on him. So he begins to go to 90 minute therapy sessions three times a week with a psychotherapist named Brigitte Stahl. She's a brilliant doctor. She is a devotee of this new therapy treatment that they, that they are promoting. And it's during one of the sessions with her that he, that, that all comes to light. That's the therapist we were talking about earlier. Okay.

So the police are called and they basically tell Thomas, you have to come and take us and show us where you buried his body. And so it's the therapists, the police, doctors, they all get into a van and they drive up to Sundsvall Sundsvall. I just think if it's Sundsvall, it should be S-U-N-D-E-S-V-A-L-O. Okay. Then I said it right. What I realized now is there's a bunch of people that are saying other stuff and telling

us we're wrong. Now I don't care how I pronounce anything. This is, we're going back to Oslo rules. Listen, it's your fucking birthday, look at that. It's my birthday and it's pronounced Sundsvall. Okay. So they're walking around out in the woods there. They don't find anything.

There's police video footage in this document. Oh my God. You have to see it. There's video footage where they're following around and he's walking and there's a therapist with his hand right on his back that's like right next to him and they would like walk and kind of point randomly and then he would cry really loud and it's very embarrassing where you're just like, this would be such an uncomfortable day trip to have to be on. They don't find anything of course.

Then he says, well, that's because I cut his body up and put it in different pieces in different places. So then they do more walking and more pointing and more crying and groups and it's super weird. You see these, the therapists are just like right next to him and then they're just like comforting him and it, you really see the positive like affirmation that he's getting from all of this behavior from them. So they do it for hours and they don't find anything, but they still consider it a great

success that they did it. So on the way home, they go out to dinner and everybody gets a cigar, including Thomas quick. They all get to go to McDonald's and get fucking happy meals. In the documentary, it looked like it was a pretty nice restaurant. So he basically now is kind of, he's feeling that positive reinforcement for what this confession is bringing up. So he also wasn't just getting positive, nice attention and people comforting him and liking

him. He was also getting all the drugs he wanted because part of this therapy was, it's this idea that you're bringing up these incredibly painful, repressed, horrible memories and therefore those feeling you need to be able to take drugs to make them go away. Even in the mental hospital, they thought that. I feel some flaws might be happening. Well, here's the drugs he was on. His daily intake and he could get extra when he requested it.

If it wasn't a special occasion, Turkey day, right? Six, five milligram milligrams of Valium, four, one milligram Xanax pointing at me again. You're just the person I'm talking to. I do take Xanax. One 10 milligram pre fill Valium, I know it's up better, 1.5 milligram Halcyon. That's some fucking serious shit. Jesus. I never heard of it.

Two Rohypnel, which is the date rape drug, it's fucking date rape drugging himself. It's roofing himself. Six trio comp, which I don't, that's, you, is that the good shit? Should I get that at the pharmacy? Aspirin. Are you serious? Oh, they're like, yes, you can get it at the pharmacy. It's fucking aspirin to bear some birth control and, you know, if I was writing that article,

I wouldn't have put aspirin on the list, but okay, so essentially he in therapy starts to discover that he committed all these crimes because of the terrible things, which is, you know, what he's supposed to discover that happened during his childhood, namely the extreme physical and sexual abuse done to him by his parents. And he says, quote, it is my belief that every detail of my killings contained in exact, exact counterpart in what my parents subjected me to, every detail in each shade. So he tells this insane fucking story that I won't even give you all the details. I'm sure you've seen this documentary or you can see it.

It's so awful. He basically, it's a story where he tells a therapist, his father was raping him when he's like four years old. His mother walks into the room. She's seven months pregnant. She sees what's happening. She immediately miscarries and he, Simon sees the baby fall out dead on the ground. And then the father stabs the baby and the father tries to feed him the baby's flesh.

So if I'm the therapist, I would have been like, sorry, we need to go back three steps. This is a bit extreme. I don't want to doubt you. I know that you were in pain, but you're basically describing like a 10 year old boy's horror movie. If you could like, it's so crazy. He also claims his mother tried to drown him in a lake, a lot of lake action and tried to push him in front of a bus.

There is no proof of any of these things happening. And the Burgwell family denies all of it says that's not what their parents were like. It wasn't ideal child. They're like, except for going to the lake, this is all not true. Maybe she pushed me near a bus, but okay, so, so basically these confessions continue for six years. He keeps confessing to different crimes, cold cases that have happened in the country or in Norway.

He confessed, by 1999 he had confessed to 25 unsolved murders and he had been convicted of five of them. So they're basically taking his confession and then using it in court and he's getting convicted. The media dub some Sweden's own Hannibal Lecter. He's also called the boy killer and he also, of course, by confessing, they're clearing these famous cold cases that have been hanging over, you know, the country for so long. And of course, selling a shit ton of newspapers because when it first hits, it's all anyone's

talking about. But as the years pass, doubts start to grow, especially among crime reporters who have to be there in every detail of it, right? And of course, the victim's families, which is just like, yeah, this case is not closed because this isn't the guy that did it. But everybody is, when they bring up the inconsistencies in Thomas Quicks stories, the police, they start calling them team quick, which are the psychoanalysts, the doctors, and the police. The people who really want to believe him.

Who really want to believe him. And they always say, well, of course, he's not going to get the exact weapon, right? He's very upset. Right. They keep saying, he's not going to get the exact location. He doesn't remember where he buried. He's on a ton of aspirin. 25 bodies.

He's on a ton of aspirin. He's taken minimum two aspirin a day. That'll really screw you up on that fucking good shit. He just keeps roofing himself. Every time we ask him to tell us the details, he's like, I'm roofing. He's fucking out like a light. So in spring of 1996, he confesses to murdering. It's a very famous cold case in Norway, a nine year old girl named Therese Johansson.

And she had disappeared in 1988. And it spurred one of the largest police searches to date, which yours I want to, I know. This was second largest. He tells police that he had cut up her body and put it into a nearby lake to where near where she had disappeared. The authorities drain the lake twice. They say they brought it down to a level that had it been in in 10,000 years. They start to process the silt and water at the bottom of the lake.

They do that twice and they don't even find like a single shard of bone. There is nothing in that fucking old ass lake at all. So he also claims that there was the disappearance of two Somali asylum seekers from an Oslo refugee center in 1989, he claims that he murdered those two people as well. Which also now, this is fucking up his MO because up until that point, he had killed boys, boys that had disappeared, then it was a slightly older man. Now we're getting into, now it's a little girl, now it's adults. So now they're like, wait a minute.

But it's the crime reporters and the families are going, usually that's not how it works. And then his team is basically like, no, but he's such a monster. They basically, they're like, well, if you think he's bad enough to do these murders, why wouldn't you think he would do these murders? Because he's a monster. He's omnivorous when it comes to human beings. He doesn't care. He's not picky.

So essentially, okay, so then he confesses to murdering two women, a 17-year-old named Trina Jensen. She, her dead body was found in August of 1981, as well as 23-year-old Gry Storovic. She was found in June of 1985. And with those two, he claims that he raped them, or he killed them, and he claims that because in the police reports, the semen had been found on their bodies. How did he, did he get access to all these reports? Well, okay.

I see. That's where it starts to come together. Someone, when he makes this confession, everyone's like, but you're gay, and you've been out for like, oh, everyone knows that, and like, suddenly you're just changing that, too. Yeah. Like, you can be a murderer, but you can't not be gay. Well, I guess that's not what I'm saying. I'm just reading what's on this paper.

Well, basically, it was just, it defied the logic of the MO. So still, his confession held up, and he was convicted for both of those murders. So everyone's going, how does he know all these details? If he, because people keep saying, well, how can he not be responsible because he's confessing and he knows details that you would only know if you were there? Turns out. You get a day pass when you're at Fallen Mental Hospital, so you can fuck on off to the library and look up any old crime you want to.

And that's what he had been doing. Holy shit. Yes. So he had been looking up cold cases, getting all the information at the National Library in Stockholm. He would, right, let's hear it for that library. And why don't you donate some money to the National Library? You greedy fuckers.

He'd go there, read old press reports, read whatever he could. He would take notes. And he also, then there was also a lot of, this was before that people discovered that thing of how leading police could be in confession. So there was a murder of a husband and wife. They were Dutch tourists named Marinus and Janne Steggehoes, and they had both been murdered while they were sleeping in a tent near a lake in 1984. So the police recreate the scene, but they don't say to him where was the tent, where

was the car. He walks up and it's all set up for him. So they're like, now just go do the thing you did back then. So he's like, okay, cameras are rolling. He goes and does it. It's completely inaccurate. It's wrong. It is not how it happened.

So then they go, we need to take a break, turn that camera off. They go over and the police talk to him for a little while. And then when they turn the camera back on, he does it again and he does it right. Uh-uh. Yeah. Do they have that footage in the documentary? Yes. Well, they have the tent.

They have the first wrong one and it's so, it's like, I hate bad acting anyway so much. But he's like, goes into this tent and he's like, it's like, they didn't ask you to act like a bear, you fucking idiot. It's so bad. Oh my God. But basically that's what every, they start putting it together that they are making it as easy as possible for him to know this information and the library of course. So in total, Thomas Quick confesses to 39 murders in Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland

taking place between 1964 and 1993. And he has tried and convicted for eight of these murders. So of course the debate is raging about whether or not it's real and by 2001 there's people that are writing books or is that, I don't want to find this book. The first guy that wrote a book, it was called, I'm not going to be able to remember it off the top of my head, yeah, where is it? The Da Vinci Code. Why didn't I?

I should have italicized it. It's a book called, it doesn't matter. It was basically like Thomas Quick, a mythomaniac essentially. But it's basically a person that put it all down on paper of like, there's no fucking way that all of these are real. And so as the debate rages and the press is no longer interested, it's been years and years of this guy being like, I did it too. And so at first everyone's like, they got him, they got him.

And after a while everyone's like, it's not a story as much anymore and it's not as interesting. It's not selling papers at all. And so in 2001, Thomas Quick makes a statement that these public doubts that he keeps hearing are hurting his family and also hurting the families of the victims because it's seeding all this doubt and it's making it worse. So he says, I'm no longer talking to the police. I'm no longer talking to anybody. And he then proceeds not to talk for seven years.

Right. Now in the meantime, in 2006, Johann Aspelin's parents, who was the first boy that he claimed that he killed, they got a lawyer together. They got a lawyer and this lawyer got a document together. It's 53 page document on the weaknesses of Thomas Quick's stories because they were like, it is not him and all this shit is bullshit. And this document actually proves the two Somali refugees that had gone missing were still alive.

What? Yeah. Holy shit. It all, of course, quickly begins to fall apart. And then in 2008, the Swedish filmmaker, Hannes Rastam, visits Thomas Quick, oh no, he's Stur, again, he's back. And Hannes basically says, I've watched these videos of you doing these reenactments and you in court and you're so clearly on drugs.

I mean like your fucking eyes are kite. And Stur is like, I was high as a kite. You're exactly right. Oh my God. Literally it's his, Rastam said to him, I see in the reenactment videos that you're high as a kite. Whoa. That's not me.

And so basically the next day, Stur went to his psychotherapist and said, quote, I haven't committed any of these murders I've been convicted of and none of the murders I've confessed to either. That's just the way it is. Oh, that psychotherapist was like, yes, you did. Yes, you did. No, but remember, you cried. You cried so loud.

They end up making two one hour documentaries that were broadcast on Swedish TV. And basically the pup that exposed that and the public immediately was like, oh yeah, now they're kind of on his side because it was so insane. And then when they went to retry the cases, basically all the charges got dropped, right? Because they went, its lack of evidence was cited as the reason. Then Rastam wrote a bestselling book called Thomas Quick, The Making of a Serial Killer. And it basically convinced most people of Thomas Quick, his innocence, unfortunately Rastam died in 2012.

So he wasn't there to get to see. The benefit of his work on July 30th, 2013, Studo was acquitted of the last eight of his murder convictions and it was called, the entire thing was called the judicial scandal of the century. He has since been released from Sotter and he no longer takes medication of any kind. Oh no. The one interesting thing is that I think is Leonard Huggland, who is the man that Studo attacked in 1974, doesn't buy any of it.

And he was quoted as saying, every time I think of Studo, my heart starts pounding. He destroyed my life and he keeps on ruining my life. It makes me sick to see him on TV when he sits there in a cell and blames the hospital for drugging him. It's just a big act. He started one show by saying, Thomas Quick is dead, I am Studo Bergwall. When he attacked me, he was Studo Bergwall. So he like, yeah.

Yeah. That was the long one, sorry. No, that was. That crazy? Crazy. Crazy. I had never heard of it. I want to watch the documentary now.

So nuts. Also, it's funny because they do show him a lot in that prison mental hospital and it looks like a really nice apartment. He's just like kicking back. He's got a cab. Yep. Posters on the wall. A fern.

A fern. So nice. Great job. Thanks. Do you want to do a. Yeah. We have time for a quick hometown. Yeah.

It's time. All right. A quick hometown. A quickie. There's some, not yet. There's some rules. Hold on. These are important.

You've heard them before. You can't be so drunk that you can't follow your own story. That's key because it gets really boring for sober people that are just like, what? What year did it happen? We can do it. You can't do it. We want it to be local. It's not any fun when it's like, oh my God, this crazy thing happened in Russia.

We're like, no one cares. So we want it to be local. It's great when it's personal. It really needs to have an ending. That's just basic storytelling, beginning, middle, end. It's really not fun when you're like, and then they just don't know what happened. And we're all like, all right. Cool.

And. Oh, you have to remember that if you get picked, everyone else hates you. You've got to move it along. Just pace it up nice and quick and who wants to tell us their hometown story? All right. Yes. Behind, no, behind Mariah. Yeah.

Yes. Guys, it's Vince, everybody. Oh, over here, honey. There he is. Yeah. Oh man. I'm sorry. Vince got made into a skinhead today.

They shaved his entire head. Did you do that yourself? There's a little miscommunication with the barber. Oh. Some of the terms are different here related to. He texts me. I went to the mall, he got his hair done, and he texts me, and he's like, it'll grow back in two weeks.

I know how you like it longer. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Hi. Hi. Hi. Come here. Hi. Come here.

Hi, come here. You get in the center. You get in the center. You get in the center. I'm here. Okay. Hi. It's Johanna, everybody.

Love your outfit. Very cute. So where are you from? I'm originally from a town like two hours north of here called Jävle. Jävle? So are they. Everyone. What is Jävle known for?

Well, coffee mostly. Oh, coffee. Yeah. Okay. Nice. So what I'm going to tell you about is actually, it's a personal story. Okay. It's about...

I'm going to start from the beginning. Do it. When I was a very young child, I was maybe 10 or something. I became friends with this girl in a house, a few houses away, and she was like two years older than me. She was really cool. We like played with the VJ board. Yeah.

Yeah. Scary stuff. And I used to go over to her house. She was in foster care and she had a lot of cats. So I was overjoyed. I got it. I got it. And she had like a really cool room and everything.

So we hung out there a lot. And later my mom told me like, yeah, you don't remember that correctly. The whole house smelled of cat pee. And everything was dirty. I had to bathe her when she came over. Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

She helped her like take a shower because no one told her to. Her name was Anna. And later on we lost touch because she grew up a bit faster than me, started smoking, started drinking, and we lost touch. And then a few years ago, when I was over 20 at least, I saw her picture in the paper. And she had been killed. She had been killed what they had arrested her boyfriend. She just had a son and he left her in the apartment alone, went downstairs to his dad's

apartment with the boy. And his story is that when he came back, she was stabbed. And so he got arrested because it's always the boyfriend. And he was in jail for like several weeks, didn't get to see his son, didn't get to see his family or anything. And the story could have ended there when they actually started zoning in on someone else. And that was the son of the family where she was in foster care that I have met.

Oh, yeah. And like, here's a new, we're going to call this Johanna's rule. Add a twist to rule. Yeah. So, and if they would have arrested him right away, that would have been great. But they were still really sewn in at this boyfriend guy. So he managed to kill another girl. Another girl that she was a little bit older and she was also in that same foster home

when she was a kid. And like, and then they finally figured out it's not the boyfriend. For once. One time. Right. Not this time. Not the boyfriend. They're like, look, usually we're right.

Give us a break. This time it was not. It was this brother in this foster home and he, he had some ideas about like satanic ideas and he wanted to drink their blood and he was like all around creepy guy. And he was still living with his parents in this foster home in a little cabin in the yard. Oh, no. Yeah.

And his entire room was like filled with notes and photos about his foster sisters. And so it was pretty clear case from there and he went to prison for life. Wow. Wow. That's what we want. That's exactly how it's done. Great job. I would give you this, but we can't.

We know. I meant as a gift. God, that went so fast. I know. At least for us. We could keep going, but I got a pee. Look at it. I drank all of this Evian.

Listen, this is fucking insane. Our lives have just gone crazy because of this podcast and I, my friend today I was texting with her and she was like, stop saying you're lucky. It's not luck. And it's like, well, yeah, we're lucky that we have the coolest fucking listeners that are so supportive. Like didn't have to be this way and we appreciate it and we're in fucking stock home because of you guys.

So thank you so much. It's very, it's very cool to travel all the way across the world to a place where you can't pronounce any of the words and people there have heard of your podcast, listen to it and want to come and watch you do it live. That's an amazing feeling. We're so grateful. What a great birthday. What's that?

What a great birthday. Oh, what a great birthday. It really has been. Thank you guys so much for being here with us and for getting tickets and for listening and for writing us emails. We love you. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered.

Goodbye.