My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 132 - Awful Peanut

Episode Date: August 2, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover the cult of Synanon and the death of Azaria Chamberlain.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. The true crime podcast you were waiting for while it uploaded. While it uploaded and you were waiting for it to upload. Can you believe technology? It's so crazy how long it takes but also how fast it is. I mean within a minute. Georgia, what year would you say is your favorite part of technology? Oh, my first thought was alarm clocks. That can't be right. That's not right. I'm not going to go

with that. I think you should. I think it's first of all that makes it sound like you love getting up. I love alarms. I love alarms. I love to be alarmed. I'd love to be scared. I love to be woken up when I don't want to be like deep REM sleep. Boom. I'm sitting up. I'm upset. That's my favorite thing. Yeah, that's it. What's yours? My favorite part of technology. That has to be Twitter, right? I was going to say email. Can we check your phone and it'll tell us how long you've spent on Twitter? Sure. Okay. Is it like gigabytes? It'll also tell you time, like the amount of time. Really? Okay, go to Steven. You might have to. She actually put her hand out like I was going to give her my phone. I know. She would not pass it to me. There's no

way you can access my phone. Okay, here's how you do it. With all of my dick pics that I'm sending everywhere. Um, um, general. General Steven, you're old, young. Steven, how do you do the battery? Oh yeah, if you go to battery settings, battery. Oh, okay. And you can look at last 24 hours or last seven days, what you've been using the most. Okay, so you go to settings and battery and then let's do last seven days. What's the number one thing you've spent? Twitter, 56%. Wow. And then, then I come in with your favorite, my home and lock screen, which is 25%. Oh my God, texts only 6%. You need to start texting more. That makes me, actually, that just made me cry a little bit. You're on Twitter more than you're on, than you're texting your good, good

friends. Then actual interaction with people that care about me. Instead, I'm on Twitter going like, like, now I don't want to do a pun, but, but I do have this idea. This is really funny. Oh, yeah. Sorry. What's yours? Mine's 23. The first one's, don't fucking reach around out to me like I'm going to hand you my, checking out my alarm clock. What if I just handed you an alarm clock? Most precious alarm clock. This is what I use the phone. Yeah. What if I called my phone my alarm clock and I just, that's all I use it for. This is, you've been, the facade has gone on for three years and now I realize you're fucking crazy. I'm insane. Oh, really? Here's my phone. Stupid. Like, way more stupid than you initially thought, you know? It never seemed like she was

stupid on the road. Yeah. But I never saw her around the alarm clocks on the road. I never, you never went in my hotel room with me. I've never been in Europe. Well, that's not true in Australia. We had a nice, we snuggled up. We did. That was fun. I've trashed hotel rooms because I didn't like their alarm clocks before. What if that were true? And also I'm picturing. I don't know what kind of alarm clock you're picturing. The first one I pictured was like a grandma, the kind you wind up to go up. Oh, I'm thinking of the ones like from the 70s that had like the flaps. The numbers were like flip. Oh yeah. Those are the best ones. Yeah. Right. The flip over. Yeah. Because then the one I had, I was given an alarm clock when I was like eight and it was my

most precious possession. I won one when I was like eight in a bingo and it was like the first thing I had ever won. Red digital letters? I remember? Yes. Yes. No, it had letters. Karen. Yes. It was just like wake up, bitch. Georgia. It's a 803. Yeah. I was like really excited about it. Did you put stickers on it? No. I put stickers online. What kind of stickers? Satan symbols. Don't forget to worship Satan and then I'd set the alarm. For 20 minutes of Satan worshipping, you got to get that. It's like meditation app, but it's 20 minutes of Satan worshipping. I'm so old. I'm so old that like we used to listen to FM radio, like leave the radio, clock radio, and you could put a timer on. No. And listen to the

radio and it would turn itself off in like 20 minutes or whatever. That's so advanced. Well, I mean, that's what Santa brings to the Kilgariff household. Maybe because I'm Jewish and can only win good shit in bingo. That's right. But I fucking, I mean, that's the only time I've ever won bingo before. And I still remember walking up to the stage and just being like, oh my God. And I like pick any prize. And I was just like, this is the most amazing moment of my life. Yes. I remember it exactly. Of course. A pick. Okay. For all adults that are planning things for children. Yeah. If you can set up a pick any prize. If you win, raffle or bingo, like you're saying whatever. We love black elephant. What's the one where you can be like, whatever color

elephant you I'm trying to be inclusive. I'm thinking I'm the black sheep. That's what I was thinking. Right. That's fun. Yeah. No, but I remember my sister, there was like a fireman's daughter's luncheon that we went to when I was probably eight or 10. That sounds amazing. And they had a pick any prize raffle and the shit was like 10 speed bikes and crazy. I mean like some poor kids ended up like has to get the last like a corkboard the last prize like they did. Yeah. Or even sadder. The ones that get nothing. No, you stop. Can't kill Gara shut your face when my sister got an electric motherfucking brother typewriter that was blue. She got an electric typewriter. She walked up picked her prize shopped like she was like a $200 thing. Yes.

There was really good prizes. And you got nothing. No, I'm sorry. Firefighters. You've done great up until this point. We love 9 11. Thank you for everything yet. That's your biggest. Everyone knows your biggest hits. Thank you. Right now they're fighting insane wildfires in California all over California and Arizona. Learn how to play a bingo game. We're gonna get so much hate mail for this. No, no, because my father being a fireman, our favorite thing to do in the past, I'd say 15 years is anytime my dad is in any way an asshole. We go America's hero, ladies and gentlemen in restaurants. If he's mad that like parking is good or something. Look at the American hero. That's so mean and I love it. That's that's how we are. What do you

have today? Oh, for our audience. Yeah, by the way, go right now. Let's I like how when we started this, we used to be worried about how much people didn't like it that we started the podcast this way. And now it's as if we're going off into a tangent and just pushing away anyone who might try to approach this purposefully out. Get out here. Great movie. Okay. Not a great tactic for podcasting. No, for for trying to be popular. But that's just it. Like we're not trying to be popular. You can't try to be popular. Like you just are you aren't it's as simple as it's the natural born saying the drunk though while you're doing that. What do you drunk though while you're doing that voice? You say you know how to be popular. That's what you're like. But just come here. Come here.

Come here. It's your secret. You can't try to be popular. Fuck. Yes. Drunk Karen drunk Karen love to whisper. Okay. This is perhaps one of the more exciting pieces of email that we have gotten in my experience on this show. Oh my god. I like to overstate things. You know that I like to over react. So let's do it. So perfect. So let's make podcast. So this is why we work together. This reads as such on July 12th while driving home from a long day at work and listening to episode 129. Karen mentioned her good thing for the episode. Lo and behold, your favorite thing was the show I work on. I screamed and pull over and texted all my fellow fellow endeavor crew murderinos. Remember I said I love that show endeavor. Yeah. And went on and on about how

much I love it. Yeah. This is an email from like on the television show endeavor and she had a freak out like I'm having a freak out right now hearing that I said that. And she said so I texted all my fellow endeavor crew murderinos of which there are so many. Holy shit. I've been a long time listener of the podcast and I've been recommending it to everyone I meet. Thank you. But on the other but on no other job have I found so many murderinos. Of course the ones in my department were known to me that the assistant producer dropped dropping a stay out of the forest on a particularly wooded location day changed everything. Holy shit. Now I'm just in my mind. First of all, I would just like to say this season of endeavor I've watched them all twice already. So and now

I'm think just trying to think back of like which one where would you have that. Holy shit. I'm so excited. It's like you're basically the star of the show. I think I've been cast. You're the most popular person on the show. Attaches a photo of just a few of us outside the wonderful handsome and fabulous Sean Evans trailer who is in plays endeavor Morse the detective the long standing famous British detective Morse. And the second photo is a local endeavor Rino's stocky photo of me and Molly with Sean whilst filming on location in Oxford. Your podcast has given us endless conversation starters on what are some of the longest days at work. Yeah, it can be long mostly at night in forests down dark alleyways filming murders and crime scenes. Our t shirts

and pin badges are the talk of the set and we speak about it so often that most of the cast including Sean himself I want to start crying are involved now too and you can you can hear by is ringing. That's so cute. Which is we have taken a saying from Alaska on RuPaul's drag race and transitioned it all the way over across the pond to endeavor in order to seek out other more shy murdering knows we occasionally ask if anyone would like a cookie and wait for me. We are so ridiculously excited to hear that you are endeavor Rino's like and if you guys find yourself in London again anytime soon we'd love to have you come visit us and take part take part in our own 1960s murder world that we call work toodle pip and ta ta for now.

Yolanda, Molly, Lauren, Caroline, Amy and all the endeavor murdering knows stay sexy and endeavor to not get murdered by Wow. That is so exciting. That's incredible. Sorry that's just a straight up nerd out fan email. That's incredible for me for me also because I'm these world like there's so many it's so hard for me to find a show that serves all the things I need. Yeah, which is oftentimes in being in the past procedural British, you know, a lead man that is like more interested in doing the crossword fatherly ish. Yes. I mean, threatening. I'm very easily threatened. I scare easy when I watch TV and just starts pepper spraying the TV sometimes when it's too aggressive. It's just so exciting. Great. I love it. I love it. Congratulations. Thank you.

I wanted to say that I have a letter to. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's called Steven's mustache lost a roller derby bout to Elvis. Oh, shit. I owe somebody $50. Damn it. Steven and all last week, thousands of skaters traveled to Las Vegas for roller con the annual roller derby convention. And I have to say like I fucking love roller derby. My good friend of my Megan. Her name was Judy Gloom. She was like incredible skater. Nice to go watch her all the time. It's like the most if you have a chance to go watch roller derby go. It's the most roller con is the coolest thing. I never even knew that existed. And they're like such badass women, the roller derby gals. Yeah. So touted as the bastard daughter of dozens of leagues. Roller roller con brings

together skaters from all across the world for challenges, workshops, blah, blah, blah, blah. So this year, this someone named Nat organized a challenge about against a team called Stevens mustache and the team called Elvis wants a cookie. Yeah. Long story short, Stevens mustache got their beautiful derby butts handed to them. But it was one of the funnest games. Final score 128 to 61. So much love from MFM derby Reno, derby Reno sisters, Franny panties number 210 rage city roller girls acreage Alaska. That's awesome. Nice from Alaska. Yeah. That's so cool. Go see roller derby and support support the gals. That is. Yeah. I saw that on Twitter. I didn't realize it was roller con. Yeah. Because I skim, you know, man, the skimming with the reading, but they just

said that these two roller teams or derby teams are about to go up against each other and they named the two and you were serious. You were like $50 back 50 bucks on Stevens mustache. And I only picked that team because it sounded funnier than 50 bucks on Elvis. What do you want to cook here? Whatever. Essentially, you owe me 50 bucks. It's turning into me now you because it's your cat. That's my cat. All right. Oh, I'm sorry. I'll let you down. Yeah. Steven, put your skates on right now. Stevens mustache. Be quiet. Someone tweeted us. Sorry, but someone tweeted us the other day. Why don't you let Steven laugh? What does that even mean? I'm not sure. Somebody is interpreting things that we've said on here as

like that it's somehow our rule that we have a team meeting before the show starts that Stevens not allowed. Sounds like a 1980s like made for TV movie. Like why won't you let Steven laugh? Steve, we won't let something, you know, open on an alarm clock with the flippy numbers. Click eight AM letters. Isn't that weird? It's so weird. So weird. Very weird. Okay. We have some summer camp. We have a line of merch. It's special. It's temporary for the summer. It's summer camp themed. So cute. So cute. It's got those like those like mugs that look like tin campy mugs. Yes. So cute hats, all kinds of clothing, a fucking duffel bag that like I kind of need to get. Yeah. There's some good stuff. Good shit. Check it out. Lots of different styles of shirts because we know

everyone likes a different kind. So check that out. My favorite murder.com. Go to the shop. Yeah. It's in there. It's in there. Yeah. Um, I don't have anything else to you. I don't. Steven, was that a fast? I saw Steven move quickly out of the corner of my eye. No, he flips his page around a lot. Oh, I see. Steven, don't laugh and don't move too quickly. Don't move. Yeah. Go smooth slowly or we're going to have a, actually, can you sit in the closet? The thing that I like about that comment too is Steven is the consummate podcast producing professional. Like he does this for a lot of people. If you could hear him laugh, he'd be doing a bad job. Everyone would fire his ass. Can you imagine if you're trying to record your podcast

and like have a conversation and someone's like, oh, well, someone besides me and you, we don't count. I can laugh like I can go fall all I want. Yeah, we get to. Well, and also the goal is that you make Steven break and actually make a noise. Right. He laughs, but he doesn't know. Yeah. He knows. He knows. He's good. Trust Steven, I say, to whoever made that comment for 400 episodes. Yeah. He knows what he's doing. And we don't even have 400 episodes. That's how long he's been here. He's popular in all the land. Who goes first this week? Karen goes first. Is it me? Because last week was a little lie. Was Stuart Bergwahl? Oh, okay. Okay. Looking for a better cooking routine with meal planning, shopping and prepping handled.

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Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton Serial Killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast Killer Psyche Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. This, I am so excited to do this one and I was glad to have the extra time because I needed to, you know, I need to actually work on it. Right. It helps sometimes. Yeah. And I love it because it is from near my hometown. Oh my God. And it is a creepy cult, which is one of my favorite

things. It is. And I had, so I'll tell you the inciting incident, as they call it in writing. So I have this memory. If you don't know anything about my hometown of Petaloma, which you probably don't. No one knows. If you don't know about it. We all know. So basically every picture you see of the Golden Gate Bridge is the stance is or the view of it is you standing on Alcatraz in the bay looking basically what would be westward toward the Golden Gate Bridge. So above that to the right is Northern, above Northern California 30 miles north of the Golden Gate Bridge is my hometown Petaloma. And that's the first city in Sonoma County. And up there, that's all dairy ranches. That's where he used to be the chicken. Petaloma

used to be the chicken capital of the world or the egg capital of the world in the 30s. Where's the chicken capital in the world of the world? Do you guys fight them? We couldn't hit the number of chickens, but we fucking churned out those eggs. Yeah. Get those eggs. Yeah. I don't know how they decide which of those products you're going to choose. Yeah. But because it was called the egg basket of the world anyway. And then, but right outside of my town. So I that's the town itself. I grew up five miles outside of that town in the where there was like basically cattle ranches and then further out 10 miles to 15 miles out of town. It's completely undeveloped dairy ranches. So they're big huge ranches with thousands

of acres because the cows need to graze and they need to eat grass all day long. And they make real good milk, not homogenized because they're happy cows make happy milk. That's right. That's right. So and you've seen this part of the country. They're they shoot car commercials out there all the time. It's very picturesque. It's like they shot they shot the shoot cow commercials out there all the time. They shoot cows out there all the time commercials for cows. A lot of shooting. Lots of shooting. So it's just incredibly picturesque. And it's also if you go a little bit south of that area, it's it's Marin County, it's West Marin, but still this exact same thing and the exact same kind of farmland and it's awesome. So in when I was eight years old, I was driving. My parents

used to when people would come and visit us, they the big thing that they would do is drive people to essentially Bodega Bay, which is the ocean. And we would drive out these windy roads with these beautiful rolling hills. And we would end up at the bay oysters. Yeah, all kinds of lobsters. There was a place I think it's I want to say it's it's something landing. It was a place that we would always go and end up they had a restaurant and they had a fresh fish market where literally those are my favorite fucking places, not just the restaurant, but like they're always in cool like vacationy spots, right? Where they're like a guy just pulled up on his boat and brought these four lobsters. Now they're on ice. Yeah. And then here's some fish with their eyes in still on ice,

like all that shit. And when you're eight, my sister and I used to be get carsick really easily. So we were always in the backseat of these cars that were like winding, winding, winding. And then you get to the Dega Bay and it would be like probably low tide or noon. And so we'd have to get out of the car and then go into the fresh fish market and then go into the restaurant and have our choice of what clam chowder or some soul or fish sticks. And so that's why I cannot eat fish. That's right. So you would you associate the smell of fish and fish and eating fish with being nauseous. Yeah. With being carsick. And the smell of it. Oh my God. So you won't eat fish. Can't eat fish. That's so funny. And they made it. They made it that way. They made both of

us that way. My sisters were on you in special little ways. They really do. And those are the kind of things you can't really anticipate. So anyway, all of that is to say on one of those trips one time, we were driving and I saw and everyone in the car saw there was like four people on the side of the road and they were dressed in all white in these weird, crappy things. It was weird. They were dressed. They were dressed very odd for the times and flowing things. Well, it was like, yeah, I can't really remember. That might be an exaggeration in my head. They're just wearing white. But they all had shaved heads and it was women and men. And I remember hearing my mother say to my father, be careful. And like go basically go

around, make sure you don't go anywhere near them. Which gives them supernatural power. Like if you can't even drive near them. Right. And my mom who was Mrs. Oh, please, not never scared of anything, never like intimidated. And she was like, keep away. And I of course, as we drove by, I stared at all of them and they were just these weird people that were like staring straight ahead, riding these bikes. And then of course I'm like, why, why can't we go near them in my mom's like, we'll tell you my mom would always say we'll tell you later. Yeah, she made it sound like we're going to tell you when we get home. Yeah. But she meant like 25 years. So it turned out that they were members of a cult called Synanon. Oh my God. And Synanon was this

cult that I'm about to tell you all about right now. But it is so they're known for a bunch of stuff. They're synonymous with a bunch of stuff. Come on. They started as a rehab center, essentially. That's a good like, oh yeah. Yeah. That's how you get people. Yeah. Yeah. And also the guy that started it, the tenants of the of the beginnings of this organization. Actually, it's like he went off and went cult direction. And then most of what modern rehab facilities, what their the systems and the way they do things are based on is based on Synanon. Wow. Like it started there, but then they took it one went science and the other went I am, you know, a golden god or whatever. And the interesting thing is if you've ever seen the

George George Lucas's first movie, which was called THX 1138, which is all shot in a white negative space. It's Robert Duvall. He has a shaved head and they're wearing all white and they have these weird things around their neck. Remember that? Yeah. Very vaguely. It's like this creepy dystopian future where people aren't allowed to have relationships, have children, everyone's they take drugs to repress their emotions. And there's it's very like Orwellian horrible future. And there are the extras in that movie because it was the early 70s. And when George Lucas went to shoot that movie, no actors wanted to shave their heads because it was the 70s. And it's like, who are you, Steven Spielberg? Yeah, exactly. You're no one. We don't know you.

You're like a local making a movie. So he went and got Synanon cult members to come and be in his movies. So if you ever rent or watch that movie, and there's ever like a group or kind of city, they're trying to make it seem like they're in a city area, a lot of the people in the background are cult members. Wow. That's a cool. And there and Synanon, the cult is actually thanked in the thank yous of the movie. So it's really it's such a crazy story. All right, so let's do it. I've just I've painted as much of the personal picture as I can. You know, I love talking about myself. I would continue. But we have to get into the actual fact about your car sickness. Well, what's weird about this is when this cult moved in, the people in the Dairy Ranchers

and the people that I grew up around, they're very modest people. They're very keep to yourself good fences, make good neighbors. A lot of them are crazy wealthy. Yeah, you would never fucking know. Right. Because they work on their own ranch all day long. Yeah. And they save and they don't they just drive. They don't want flashy shit. No, that's not their style. And so this cult moves in and buys this ranch. It sounds like wild wild country. That's what I was going to say. Oh, my God. It's basically a very small version of that same thing. But in white and not maroon. In white and we they didn't try to make a whole fucking city or whatever. But it's the same thing where it was just like everyone's looking around going, OK, sorry, what's this now? What are we

doing? Okay, so here's the beginning. Okay. This Synanon was founded by a man named Charles E. Diedrich. Oh, by the way, I should say that I got a lot of information. There's really good, like YouTube short films and interview type things that I got a lot of this from. But there's a 2014 article for Paleo Future blog on Gizmodo written by a guy named Matt Novak that's that has tons of great information. And it's really good. So I got a lot of it from there. And also from an attorney named Paul Morantz. He has a website, Paul Morantz.com. And he's an attorney that got ended up getting involved in basically taking down this cult. And so he knows a lot of great information. Cool. Okay. So the founder of Synanon was a man named Charles E. Diedrich.

He was born in Toledo, Ohio in 1913 to upper middle class parents. Oh, also again, Wikipedia. Thank you so much for everything you do. Oh, shit. His no shit. No shit. His father dies in a car crash when he's four. When he's eight, his younger brother dies of the flu. Very common back then. And then his his mother kind of in her grief, makes him he's he's really young, but he can't she relies on him like he's the head of the household, which is a bad setup because four years later, she gets remarried. And then he's out doesn't he doesn't take it. Well, he doesn't like the man she's marrying anyway. And then he's basically out. And all that he becomes a serious drinker before he's even in high school. Yeah. So he manages to graduate from

high school, he gets into Notre Dame, he flunks out of Notre Dame 18 months later. Still, he's part of our club. Yeah. And then he spends the next 20 or so years getting and losing jobs, getting married, getting divorced. He moves to Santa Monica decides he's going to be a beach bum. He gets remarried. Something you decide to do or you just do. I mean, the word decide was in the sentence. But yeah, sometimes you just end up in Santa Monica asking for coffee money. He gets remarried again. And his second wife begs him to go to AA. And he finally does she ends up leaving him anyway. But but he does get to AA from her recommendation in 1956. And it works. He totally gets sober. He gets really into it. He's a devotee. And he's like a natural salesman type,

be gregarious and outgoing. So everybody loves him. And he becomes, you know, like this is his community, until they don't love him anymore. Because he's one of those, as my friend Bradford calls them, a dominant psycho. So the kind of person that can't sit back and let other people do things and always has to be, you know, controlling, just a typical addictive personality. Yeah. And he also starts doing the thing, which happens a lot in program where you get in, your life is fucked up, you're insane, you get healthy, you get a little sobriety, and then you start going, this program doesn't work. And here's why suddenly no better than everybody. Very typical. So he did started doing that. But he was actually kind of right, because the problem he had was that

AA would not let drug addicts come to AA meetings. They'd already established narcotics anonymous, but they weren't consistent. They didn't have consistent meetings. It wasn't like as strong of a program as AA. So people that were drug addicts trying to get sober kind of had nowhere to go. Yeah. And Charles Dietrich was like, that sucks. And that should, you know, those people need help too. I know he couldn't read anywhere where it said he in particular was a drug addict. But it seemed like he had a lot of compassion for people that were like hooked on heroin. Yeah. So around this time, it's that there's a doctor named Dr. Keith Ditman, and he does an experiment, he's taking volunteers for an experiment to see if LSD can cure alcoholism.

He has this theory that like, if you break from reality, and you can kind of like reset your brain and then not be a drunk anymore, that sounds fun, right? Some people believe in it. No, totally. Yeah, that kind of makes sense. I think ecstasy or as well or in the MD, run DMC, what is it called? Run DMC is very helped me get clean. You know. My, uh, Ditas walk on dead floors and walk all over coliseum floors. Stephen cut that. Um, okay. So while he, so he signs up for this experiment. And while he's tripping, he has this epiphany where he decides, if AA is not going to do it, I'm going to do it. I'm going

to start my own rehab. And it's going to take people that are on addicted to drugs. And it's going to be called the tender loving care club. TLC. Yeah, baby. He's clearly on drugs. Wow. Um, that's only, that's something that only someone on LSD would think of and be like, that's a great idea. You know what the best name is. Everyone needs it. Um, and it's just the truth. Let's say it. Yeah. Um, so, so that's what he actually does. He, um, he starts meeting with people that are kind of, you know, there are people that are drawn to him. He has a very plain speaking way of, you know, he's a truth teller and he's like one of those kind of people and he encourages other people to be that way. So he has people start meeting at his ocean park

apartment and he makes up this thing that becomes one of the hugest parts of this cult. And it's, uh, it's what, what do they call it? Um, it's, it's called the game. He calls it the game. Okay. But, um, but basically it's a version of talk therapy where, um, you sit in a circle. It's usually like 10 people or so and it starts off with quite really like normally upsetting questions like who's the most boring person in this group or what's the, what, what thing happened today with someone in this group that made you really mad talk about it or whatever. And basically someone gets picked out of the group and then everyone starts attacking that person. Uh-huh. Everyone starts telling that person what's wrong with them, what, why they suck, why they're a bad

person, what, what they do that's irritating and they just rail the person and they can even say things that aren't true. But it's just basically this, a barrage of shittiness and insults to break the ego down. I think this is a bad idea. I just want to go ahead and give my medical, uh, expertise thoughts on this. Well, I was thinking about how that would feel. Like I told you that story of how one time I thought my therapist tricked me into going to group therapy and I got really mad because she's, she recommended like a meditation group. But when I got there, they were all talking in a circle and I had this panic where I was like, I'm firing her. She tricked me because it's so frightening. The idea of having to sit there and be in therapy in front of like eight

strangers or 10 strangers. So this idea really does, it's almost like an emotional bungee jumping. But I have to say for people, group therapy can be great for people. Group therapy isn't like that. No, no, no. So that specifically sounds, I mean, I don't know if it works, but it sounds insane. Well, I think what happens is, and they, and they talk about it in a lot of these articles and stuff is what it is, is you get broken down and then, and much in the way that like the theory of like the LSD would break you from reality or whatever, you get, the theory is you're going to get broken out of your little world and, and have to kind of face the possibility of the other, you know, like what other people think of you or just that the world is much different than you think.

Or like maybe the worst is happening. Like the movies for some people, the worst is like getting yelled at by a bunch of fucking strangers about how much they suck. Right. Because if you are, I mean, that is a thing of like being, when you're, you know, having been in a program a little bit, the thing that is very true is addicts have a, this, it's a combination of a sense of grandiosity about themselves and incredibly low self-esteem, which is a terrible combination. Yeah. So it's like you hate yourself and then. But don't let anyone fucking see that. No. And, and at the same time, you also think you're the best thing ever and you can't be told anything. Yeah.

And you know better than everybody. And yeah, the same things that happened to all the other addicts isn't going to happen to you. That's right. Because you're different. You're the exception to the rule. Right. Yeah. All these things. So I think the game maybe was structured in the beginning just set up to kind of break that, but in this very public, very forced and very kind of awful way that most people fear. I mean, like, you don't have to be an addict to be like, yeah, I don't want people yelling at me. No, I don't want that at all. Ever. So here's the weird thing. People love it. So the people that are in this and also he calls

it the haircut when you're you're getting a haircut. Weird. Yeah. Basically, these sessions, the way he did them, they could go on for up to 72 hours. What the fuck? Yes. That doesn't sound okay. No, no, no. It's well, that's where the extreme part comes. So when, when he first starts setting up this rehab thing, he's like, Oh, you have to do like three to four hour sessions three times a week. But then the more you sit in it, because did you see that movie about what's his name? Elron Hubbard? That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah. It's that except for it's much more aggressive. Yeah. Where that was more of like, you kind of don't know what's happening. Yeah. You're like, how are they doing this? Because I don't know what this is about. Yeah.

This was more like, we attack you, you don't defend yourself. And that's the game. Yeah. Can you can you deal with not defending yourself and being broken down? So, but when they start going into like 72 hour sessions is when he starts getting the sense of how sleep deprivation opens you up to being controlled. Yeah. And sleep deprivation, you know, there's, I should have printed it up. There's like the seven or 10 brainwashing steps that you can take where you can brainwash people of like, you remove the protein from their diet, you don't let them sleep, you repeat the same things over and over, you separate them from their family, all these things. So basically, this is what he was doing. But in the beginning,

it was with the best intentions. But as he sat there and was able to kind of like commandeer people, he's probably not sleeping either. So he's going a little bananas as well. Um, yeah, exactly. And kind of loving these results, because the results are all coming back and being to his credit. And everyone's starting to hear about it. And people in the word around town is this is actually working for people, people are actually getting clean. So like, it starts to get popular in Hollywood, of course, because like, like this town is of course filled with addicts and people who love things like that, the attention. So they used to have like a night where everyone would people would show up that weren't in rehab,

but they would just go to play the game, just to be in there like Leonard Nimoy used to do it and yeah, like, yeah, that's the one name that stands out. But anyway, but then but also so it was popular because a lot of jazz musicians who were really popular at the time were addicted to heroin and went there to get off. And so they started having these music nights. So people were just there and it became this community where people were like, this is a cool place to be and you don't have to drink and you don't have to do drugs, but all this cool stuff is happening and people are being real and people are telling it like it is. So people get really into it. So it starts getting all this good press. The D-Drick is claiming

that there's an 80 to 100% success rate. That's not a thing you should say. Yeah, it's that seems a little extreme. Yeah. But that's what he's saying. They start to get really good press life magazine does a 14 page spread on Synanon and the title of the article is a miracle at the beach. Wow. And they start and eventually they made a movie about it a couple years after that. It becomes like the talk of the town. And so once all of that kind of positive press and some politicians talked about it on the Senate floor, like there was finally a cure for addiction. And so they start getting crazy amounts of donations and huge donations to the point where they go from they had a house in Venice Beach that was kind of shitty and they make so

much money that they buy, you know, right on the one when you write in Santa Monica when you get onto the one and you start driving up PCH. And there's that big like hotel on the beach that's kind of old fashioned looking. I think so. Yeah. So that place, hold on, let me turn the page. It was called Club Casa del Mar. And they moved Synanon into that place. They were at one point making $10 million a year. Holy shit. With this rehab facility. It's like us in this podcast. Eartha Kitt hangs out with us. Yeah. All the great jazz nights. We make Stephen play all the instruments. Now the problem is there are no licensed therapists. It's all based on Dietrich's theories and the game. And there's no no governmental or like health departments overseer

of any kind. And of course, that plus $10 million people go nuts. So more money, more crazy people. Yeah, that's what they say. That's that's the how that'll run the MCs. So the first 10 years of Synanon can be called a success because they really he really did set up this program for people to go to. But then the next 10 years start. And of course, everything goes apeshit. So in 1968, two things happened that changed everything. They had started a what they call a club for the non addicts that wanted to come and play the game. And there was at one point, 3400 members of this club, holy of the non of non addicts. But they would go down to that crazy place on the beach, and they would go do these sessions and get real with

everybody and yell and be told things about themselves. And so Charles decides to open up the community. Because you were when you were there, you had to when you signed up, you got there, you immediately quit whatever drug or drink cold turkey. So you just had to get through the your withdrawals withdrawals and everything by yourself, or like, you know, just wrapped up in a towel or whatever. And then you had to stay at the facility for two years. And that's and that's how you that's how you rehab. So there was so that's in when they started the house in Venice, he really was giving people who are like, you know, heronics that were literally on the street, a place to live, jobs, things to do. Yeah, they moved to the Venice. Sorry, they moved to the San Monica beach.

The crazy hotel, like if you saw a place, it's so crazy that there was a rehab center there. Yeah. An un unqualified rehab center. And so everyone starts working at the rehab center. So so they decide that the people who have joined the club are now allowed to with hundreds of dollars a month donation, they're allowed to live in the facility and experience the lifestyle. So you just don't do drugs. Yeah, but it's the, you know, you learn to play an instrument, or you like whatever chop vegetables or whatever you do, you do whatever and participate in the cult. Well, in the organization without having to be an addict. And so that was that brought in a whole other revenue stream. And it's so weird. But then also Charles made a new rule, which was instead

of the two years, because what was really happening in reality, which went against his 80 to 100 percent success rate, the fact was that when people would leave after two years, they would immediately go back to doing drugs. And so he decides, he tells everybody, instead of two years, you now have to live for the rest of your life here. And that's how you're not you get clean. And then you take all of that health and well being and you put it back into the organization and you stay. That's bananas. It's crazy. But that's what people started doing. So it becomes this like, it's like a commune. It's like he's trying to build a utopian society. There's he, you know, that's his whole line of thinking. And the pitch is like, we're we're remaking how you

live. Yeah. And that's why those lifestylers would come to live because they're like, I'm not on drugs, but I love this idea. That's when it sounds like a cult to me. As soon as this that happened, that sounds like a cult that you live here forever now. Yeah. And it's like, okay, this is a fucking cult. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's the number one rule is giving your entire life over to someone else's made up belief system that they they were not qualified to make up in the first place. And and then they have no autonomy anymore. Right. Yeah. That the idea is no autonomy. They like that. Yeah. And that's crazy. Yeah. And but but all these people do it and smart people and talented people and people who are have lawyers and doctors and shit like that. So they're

they really are starting to build this community. And it's making a ton of money and it's branching out everywhere. There's people everywhere, even if they're not addicts, that are kind of devotees to the Synanon organization. So he he starts calling it when he says now you're going to stay here for life. He starts calling it. It's not a rehab facility anymore. It's a human progressive program. Be me. Do you want to progress? Then you better stay in this hotel on the beach. Sounds like a human progressive program that just sounds like a way to mask. Like if you were to be like, it's you're not eating human flesh, you're eating the protein of a, you know, of your fellow man. Right. This is like rewording something really awful. Well, and also I think it speaks to

how much the game instead of being this like, I had a breakthrough. It was actually breaking people down because it is detrimental to your ego and to your self-esteem and everything to have people just being like, you know, I hate about you or it's like then also like the people who are yelling all these things that you like that they're getting this fucking complex to probably where they're getting total boners by screaming at people and telling them how fucked up they are. Of course. And everyone and you know, if you're whatever it is that's going on there, if you're not sleeping, whatever kind of if you're on a restrictive diet. Yeah. If you don't have enough like protein in your system or too much. And you're an addict who fucking already drugs

and shit. Yes. So you you already have tendencies like for me, if I'm not drinking or if I'm not doing drugs, then I'm just doing something else to the extreme. I'll shop all day long like weird shit. And that's the personality because it's about like it's about consuming consuming and quantity and all this. It's so crazy and you don't trust your own brain. Yeah. So so essentially, he breaks people down brain washes them to believe that they need to live there. And then they're like, you're right, I do want to be in rehab for the rest of my life. Okay, I can't because I can't I tried it and I can't function in society. So yeah, I'm gonna stay here. It's so much easier to be here. Be sober and just do whatever this guy says. Man, I was in rehab for

14 days and I was like, get me the fuck out of here. You know, I know if that was 14 and I knew better. Yeah. Okay. So so they take they're taking the whole time they're taking this money and buying big amounts of property with this money. So they buy in Oakland, they bought things called the Athens Athletic Club, which was this big, gorgeous old building cost $10 million. Oh my God. Yeah. And they're and they're basically, you know, putting these rehab centers in places where they're really needed. Yeah, you know, there might be a bunch of drug addicts or whatever. And then it's just basically they're like absorbing up all of the people of society that like a doesn't gonna deal with them, the cops don't want to deal with them or whatever. So they

just are like, yeah, you know, you'll live in this big house. Yeah, we've solved your we've solved your problem. You're not gonna do drugs and you have a place to live and work for the rest of your life. Yeah. Now do every single thing we say. Right. So so they're doing that all around. And basically, when the authorities start hearing about the lifelong rehab facility thing, they smell a rat. But before they can investigate and they had so many lawyers and they had so much money, it reminds me so much of the bad blood thing I went on and on about last week, but or last time. It's that thing where when you have so much money that you don't have to do what the normal law says. Yeah. And that people can't fight you and you know it. So you just break people.

Yeah. Like that's it's that's what happened here. So before anyone can do anything about you're not allowed to have a lifelong rehab center, they move out of Southern California. And they move up to Marshall, which is basically the town, which is tiny, tiny. That's in that area that I was talking about outside of Petaluma. That's on fucking Carr Sickness Road. It's basically halfway between my hometown and Bodega Bay Center of Carr Sickness. Right. So they first first landed Tamales, which was our rival high school. Okay. We used to play Tamales and hate them. And it's hilarious. But there was nothing else around like both schools had 300 kids. Yeah. But then that was that they bought like an old radio station in Tamales, but then they ended up buying Walker Creek Ranch,

which was a 1700 acre ranch that was I mean, like right, it's so funny. It's just right where I grew up. And they begin this utopian society like on this ranch. So they build these hexagonal yurt type of things, these buildings that are in hexagon shape, so they don't need heating. You know, they don't need like they're they're doing all these things kind of to be the cheapest. It's like the cheapest way they can live because they they have to house like thousands of people. They all start wearing overalls. Oh, you lost me. Yeah. In my child's memory, they were not wearing overalls on those bikes. They were wearing like almost like Hari Krishna white maybe they were higher ups or something. Oh, yeah. Maybe they have bike privileges.

You don't have to buy you don't you know one can bike in overalls. Everyone knows that. No, it's flowing cloth. You got to white claw near folks. At some point to show solidarity with the men, all the women shaved their heads. And I swear, I mean, I know it's a cool look, especially if you like have a nose ring or you know, you're a punk or whatever. But seeing just like a bunch of 37 year old women wearing like glasses that of the day, those weird round secretary glasses, but with shaved heads is so unnerving. Yeah, it's really crazy. There's something about a group of people with perfectly shaved heads, like more than one essentially, like with the same length there that you're like,

they're up to some that's a gang, they're up to something no good. It's a gang or a concentration camp like nothing good. Yeah, nothing good is that visual. Totally. It's upsetting. Yeah. So they also they declare Charles declares Synanon is now a church and so he gets tax free status because because they can't be they're not a nonprofit anymore, right, which is what they were when they were centered in Santa Monica. Right. So he has to make that change. So now they're a church, they're tax free, and all the money that they're starting to make is just go straight into his pocket. And they had started getting people to base. This is something the Mooneys did too. They basically got the the members who were in like full like cult mode

to go out and get donations from businesses and from like individuals. And that the donations made up a huge, huge amount of the income of the of the organization, because there would just be these like shaved heads, like like zealots that were like getting or religion or religion and we're we're curing people of addiction. Okay. So they were really selling that that point. At this point, Charles has married his third wife, Betty, and he sets up something called the wire where it's essentially a PA system that goes to every building they own. And then he hangs a microphone. The one article I read, it said they hung it right above his seat at the dinner table. And he would just sit there and talk all day and all night. It sounds like Jim Jones. Yes,

it's totally Jim Jones. It's the same time period too, isn't it? In fact, a month when they went down. Oh, we'll get to that later. Will you remind me? Yes, I actually there's part of that in my story too. So I can. Is there really? Okay. So it's totally Jim Jones where he's it's just droning on about what they are versus the outside never like have thoughts. Nope. And it's always him. It's what he's telling you it is. So he's telling you, the outside world is, you know, we need to keep together this society is the best way to live. The outside world is trying to make us addicts again. We can't let that happen. And he's just brainwashing constantly brainwashing everybody. In October of 1972, the San Francisco examiner runs two articles about Synanon one

describing it as quote, the racket of the century. And Synanon sues the Hearst Corporation for $40 million. Shit, that's ballsy. It's super ballsy. They what's crazy is the Hearst, Hearst settles out of court with them for $600,000. Hearst gives them fucking gives them almost a million dollars just to go away. And they see that as this huge victory. Yeah. Not only do they have way more money, but then they also are keeping people from from exposing them essentially. Yeah. And so then it then it kicks up a notch in 1974. Synanon starts contacting parole officers around the Bay Area asking if they have any juvenile offenders because they'll take them in. Yeah. And so the the the court system starts sending juvenile offenders to Synanon. And it's like, yeah, it's such a bummer.

It's kind of like the what later on is like those outward bound kind of like, are you a bad kid? We'll make you hike it off. Except for Synanon was just this ranch. And these these it was mostly boys. They would show up and they were just like, what the fuck is this? And they were of course made to do the game. And they were made to but they none of them wanted to do it. They weren't there voluntarily and they weren't addicts. So they were rebellious. Yeah. And so they were like, yeah, fuck this game. And I'm not doing this and fuck you if you're telling me I'm a piece of shit. And like, they fought everything. Yeah, they were made to march like day and night. Oh my god, they got woken up in the middle of the night made to march. And when they rebelled when they were

trying to do the game. And Charles Dietrich realized they weren't going to be willing participants. He removed the one tenant of the organization that the organization was founded on, which was no violence. Yeah. And he starts this thing called the Imperial Marines, which is basically his muscle security within the cult Imperial Marines, the Imperial Marines. So when these punks are up doing the game, and they're not playing, three guys walk up and just beat the living shit out of a kid. And with all the other kids sitting there watching. So the kids start running away from this ranch. Yeah. But you're out. This is okay. I'm telling you. Now I've complained that like, oh, we couldn't get pizza delivered. And we never had cable and all that shit. Yeah. Out where

these people are, there's no street lights. You are out in the middle of nowhere and it's pitch black at night. You see it's like the stars in the moon or your light. And that's fucking it and cars driving down the street and one car would drive by maybe once every four hours, like you're out in the middle of nowhere. So these kids would get up in the middle of the night and run away. And they would go to the neighbors ranch and the neighbors were two people named Alvin and Doris Campanini. Now the Campanini's ranch was really well known in Petaluma because they used to have these big barn dances out there. So if you lived in Petaluma, you would go out, you pay like 10 bucks and they had like live music and people would dance and they had a bar and it was like a

whole thing that they used to do. It's very country of like, well, we'll have our own bar. We'll make our own fun. So and the Campanini family, you know, they were cattle ranchers. I can't remember if they were dairy men or if they actually bred cattle, but they had a humongous ranch of their own. So they were like when the, you know, when they moved in, it was just like, oh no, who are these weirdos? But for the most part, people kept to themselves. It was not that big of a deal. Well, suddenly in the middle of the night, you know, teenagers, they have teenagers knocking on the door who are beaten senseless. There was one kid, there was a really amazing obituary when Doris died. When she died, they talked about all of this involvement that they had, you know, against their

will. But kids would knock on the door, they'd bring them in, she would comfort them, she would give them something to eat, and then Alvin would pay for their bus ticket home. Holy shit. And they would be the ones that were like getting these kids out of this cult. And they said in this obituary that she kept all the thank you letters from the parents when the kids finally got back home. And we're like, these are the people that helped us get there. Oh my god. So the Gambaninis were like huge in helping these poor trapped children and these poor people who were just like out in the middle of nowhere. But they so the rumor starts going around town that like that these people are getting violent and they're getting militaristic and they're starting to buy guns. And so they're

starting to get worried. And they're like, there's a there's a they own a they have a common fence line. There's an easement on it from the Walker Ranch side. And they're like starting to get worried about who owns what and like, it's starting to get worrisome. And they start finding out that the kids are running away and the Gambaninis are helping them escape. And one night Alvin and Doris are driving up their driveway to go home and their truck gets surrounded by all these shaved head overall people with hammers. And they attack the truck, they bust out the driver's side window, they grab Alvin and Doris has to hold him and keep him in the truck because they're going to pull him out to beat the shit out of him. And they get away, they get home, they get safe,

they actually knocked out Alvin's front teeth. What the fuck? Yeah. And so like it's fucking like it's on it's like war with them and everybody around them. And it's really violent. It's like they're they're they're letting people around the area know there's another story about somebody in a purple truck hit a Synanon member who was on a bicycle. And oh, that's why your mom was like give them a wide fucking birth. That's what it is. Because then they went into the town of Tamales found a purple truck, waited for the guy to get into his truck and then beat the living shit out of the guy that was in the truck. Holy shit. So they're going crazy. And it's all being fed by Charles D. Drake on the wire, telling everybody that everyone's trying to get them.

And they need to get get before they get got type of shit. Yeah. So in 1977. Oh, and by the way, just just because it's like you then you hear that story about the gammoninis and you're like, so call the cops have been arrested. But these people had illegal teams, they had so much money and they had so many lawyers, they knew that if they called the cops on them, they get arrested, they get out and then the revenge would come. So they didn't do anything. And they found out that over 20,000 businesses and organizations were giving to or interacting with Synanon by the late 70s. So it's one out of five corporations in the Fortune 500 were donating or doing business with the organization. Like they were they had infiltrated all these places under the guys of

we're helping addicts get clean. We're the new we're a rehab center. Yeah. Okay. So in 1977, Charles wife Betty dies of cancer. Okay. And this is when it all goes crazy. Because up until this point, it's crazy enough. But they said that his weirdest, craziest tendencies, she was keeping under control. And when she dies, he now decides he's going to have he's going to pick a new mate, he picks up he's in his late 60s, he picks a 31 year old, then he decides no one should be married. If he can fall in love with a stranger, so can anybody else. So all the married couples have to they're switching partners. No. And the and the cult decides who their new partners are, they put out, they make a big spreadsheet. Oh my God. And reassign everybody's partners

wedding dining seating. Yeah. Yes. But so that year that he decided to do that 600 couples got divorced. What? So they could be reorganized into different couples. That's true love. It's so crazy. And then he never liked kids being around. So he'd always kept them separate. And that would always be like you can see your kid once a week. And in the early days, for a lot of people, they're like, you're insane. But then of course, later on, it was how it should be. So all the kids were kept at the school, what they called the school. And they basically listened to his teachings, were taught to worship him. The little kids did the game. Like there's a picture, you can look it up. There's a picture online of a little boy sitting in a chair yelling, like he's

doing it to somebody else. Put it on Instagram guys. It's fucking nuts. Okay, so, so everybody, everybody gets a new husband or wife. He tells all the men they have to get vasectomies. Any woman who's pregnant has to get an abortion. They're shamed into getting abortions. Yes. Because he doesn't want kids there. Holy shit. Yes. So the health department, there's been complaints everywhere. But nobody can take action. The health department contacts in and on to say they're going to come and inspect the ranch because they have gotten reports of child abuse there. And synonyms, Charles basically tells them, if you show up, you're going to get a beat down. Holy shit. Yeah. And they think that when he won the lawsuit against Hearst Publishing,

they think that's what made him start to believe he had all the power and that like basically his money was going to buy him out of everything. So but these but hearing that he's getting more and more paranoid. Yeah. And his and his what he's saying on the wire across the wire is getting more and more paranoid and all about basically it's turning into a militaristic thing. He then decides he has to cut out the uncommitted members of the organization and he brings the membership down to a thousand people. So sounds like it was pretty huge at one point. But he basically is so paranoid that even the people that are there that are shaved heads, the sectomies dedicate their whole life. He's like, not enough. You're out. Damn. Look, they got lucky. I know. We're real.

So then August 1978, the NBC Nightly News airs a segment about Synanon and how it's a cult. And after the broadcast, several executives, NBC executives and corporate chairman get hundreds of death threats, hundreds of death threats, because there's so many Synanon members kind of like all around and supporters of it. And then soon after this, two members of the Imperial Marines put a deradled four and a half foot diamondback rattlesnake into the mailbox of attorney Paul Morantz. He reaches in to get his mail. He gets bitten by a four and a half foot rattlesnake. No humongous. And he is hospitalized for six days. So his shit. What happened was Paul Morantz brought a lawsuit against Synanon because and they'll try to tell us the quickest

way possible. But essentially what happened in 1977, this woman was kind of having a nervous breakdown. Her husband was really worried about her. He was like, they were trying to make a plan of where they could bring her what to do. And he had her drop him off at work. And she went to the family planning clinic in our neighborhood to ask if she could have a tranquilizer because she was like, she was having, she was having like all these thoughts and she couldn't calm down. She couldn't stop crying and she was losing her shit. And the woman who worked at this family planning center was in Synanon. And so she was she sent her to Synanon. They take her in. They don't let her leave. She's like, no, no, no, I don't want to be here. And they're like, no, you need to be here.

And she's like, I need to call my husband. And they're like, no, he wants you to be here. He doesn't want you. Holy shit. And he they're like, we're your family now. They keep her for two days in that Santa Monica crazy hotel on the beach. And then they ship her. They bust her up to Walker Creek Ranch, where they do the game on her. They do all the shit. And she has a psychotic break. Oh, my God, because she's like kidnapped. She's been kidnapped. She's been told her husband doesn't want to be married to her anymore. And that this is her new life. Oh, my God. So when they finally so the husband, of course, is frantic. He calls the police. They say there's nothing they can do. She's a grown woman. If she wants to join that, she can like all that shit. He can't

get anybody to help. And he finally gets referred to Paul Morance, the attorney who had had a little bit of experience of getting people who had been put into nursing homes against their will. Oh, wow. He that's how he had kind of started. And so he was like, and he, he, he heard the story and was like, I absolutely have to do this. This is fucking crazy. Because he finds out when he calls like the health department and all that, the people are like talking and whispers like, yeah, we really can't do anything and whatever. And he's like, who are these people? So he devises this plan. He has the husband call the wife. He, like they demand to talk on the phone. And then he basically says, keep asking her if she wants to come home until you get her to say

she wants to come home so that we have the verbal, you know, thing that she's being held against her will. And then he went in and was like, now we're taking her. And they're like, fine, you can take her. She's like, cause she wasn't contributing in any way that was meaningful. She couldn't go out and get donations. She's psychotic. And so they said, you just have to sign this waiver saying that we're not responsible for anything that happened to her while she was at Walker Creek Ranch. And he was like, sounds great. I'll sign that waiver, signs the waiver as the attorney. They leave and he slaps out the lawsuit for what happened to her in San Monica when she first got taken. Cause he was like, are you crazy? Like we're taking you down. So he sues them for damages

and they, and he wins and they have to pay him $300,000. And so that's when Charles D. Drake is like, we have to take care of this guy and sends out two members of the Imperial Guard to put a fucking rattlesnake in his mailbox, which absolutely would have killed him. Like a snake that size. So insane. Okay. So that basically is the beginning of the end. When that story breaks that they have done this thing, they get caught like it's all immediate on top of the news reports that had started to trickle out. They go and they arrest Charles D. Drake. He's drunk when they arrest him. So this didn't work. No, this whole time he's been running this fucking cult. He's been drinking and apparently at one point he reintroduced acid where he was like, yeah,

and you guys can't drink or do drugs, but you, but we should all be doing acid because it's going to help us open up. It's probably so bored having to stay in that fucking ranch all day. It's like, you know what, acid's fine now. Acid's fine too. But he was completely a drunk. He agrees to a plea bargain to avoid jail time because his lawyers say that his health is so bad that he wouldn't, he would die if he went to jail. He, in that plea agreement, he, it stipulates he has to discontinue serving as an officer and the director of Synanon. And the other two cult members plead no contest and they end up going to jail, even though they were brainwashed into fucking doing it by him for him. So in 1980, and this is the coolest part, and this is the part where

like the movie will be based all around these people, in my opinion. There's a tiny, so Point Raise is a tiny town that's good cheese. That's right. Right north of the Golden Gate Bridge. If you basically went left instead of up the freeway and you went stick to the coast, Point Raise is right there. There's a very famous lighthouse and it's like, it's gorgeous. They have a newspaper there called The Point, The Point Raise Light. And in 1975, it was bought by husband and wife, Dave and Kathy Mitchell. And so they've owned it for five years. They keep hearing these stories about Synanon. So in 1980, they, along with Professor Richard Offshie, who taught at Berkeley, they write an expose of Synanon and the articles that come out in this

paper break nationwide, basically crack the story open like as this, what it is. And they end up winning the Pulitzer for it. This tiny newspaper in a town that probably has 800 people in it. Yeah. So basically the IRS gets rid of Synanon's tax exempt status and orders them to pay $17 million in back taxes for all those years that they pretended to be a religion. So they go bankrupt and by 1991, they're disbanded. Although there is a branch of Synanon that was founded in Germany in 1971 that still exists to this day. Oh my God. And Richard Diedrich died in 1997, which means he completely could have gone to jail and should have because really he made those two guys were just brainwashed. Cult members do it,

but he didn't. And oh, and then Richard Offshie, that professor, says that of the six to 10,000 residents of Synanon between 1958 and 1968, only 65 people were ever rehabilitated and lived normal lives in society afterwards. What the fuck? The entire thing was a fucking lie. Well, no shit. And that is the cult of Synanon. Dude, that's the craziest story I've never heard of in my life. Isn't it the best? Yeah. Shave your head. Okay. Okay, I'll do whatever. I'm not wearing overalls. That's where that's where I drop. I'll join a cult. I'll shave my head. Oh, fucking handle snakes. Not wearing overalls. You'll put a snake in a mailbox if need be. Anywhere. But not. You won't go so far as to wear overalls. No. Well, that was amazing. Great. Great job. Thank you. I have to be.

All right. Well, I just get I sometimes get these like, you know, that nervous, fluttery feeling in your heart. Yeah. Like when I got to start my story. Yeah. Sometimes I get those and I'm just like, you know, nervous. Well, you are about to tell me something terrible. Yeah. But just like suddenly I have to give a presentation. Oh, right. It doesn't happen when we go on stage. But for some reason, like right now, it's like, it's all you did. Don't forget your gestures. Don't fuck this up. Yeah. Okay. So. Webster's dictionary defined. No, sorry. Go ahead. No, I wrote a wrap about the murder to the song of the mom's spaghetti. No. Okay. Okay. So I'm really obsessed with this podcast right now called Teachers Pet that I

can't stop listening to. That's this investigative journalist podcast about this probable murder in Australia in the 80s. So that's where my fucking brain is right now. I was listening to it. Well, I was in Hawaii. Me too. And did you really? That's what my Hawaii was about though. No. That's funny. Yeah. And I was I kept doing the thing where I fell asleep listening to it. So I would listen consciously to two episodes and then subconsciously to eight. Yeah. And it was weird because then I would re listen to like, Oh, now I'm on the third one. But I'm like, I know what's going to happen. That's weird. Yeah, I do that too. It's such a good, it's such a good podcast. It's so good. And it's like, it's like, it's going to break as it's happening right now.

Like there's no, it's great. And so creepy. So creepy. Okay. I love it. So my brain is there right now. And so I'm doing a story in Australia, same time period. I am doing the death of a Zaria Chamberlain, aka I didn't grow up in my baby. Oh my God. I know. This is no wonder you have butterflies. Yeah. This is this is an epic story. It's an epic story. It's fucking horrible. It's I didn't know. And like, this is a I used to hear that we used to say this joke, it didn't go ate my baby at an elementary school here in the States as kids. And I didn't fucking know what it meant. Right. And up until I really did all this research, I didn't completely know. But it's bananas. So I hate just have I hate to say that I didn't go eat my baby like a joke because it's not a joke.

It's horrible. But that's just what everyone knows it as. Right. Was it very, it was almost like completely separated from the movie. And it was more of people like to do that accent. It was a yeah, it was a playground version of throw another shrimp on the bar. Yeah, it sounds funny and silly. Nobody knows what a fucking dingo. I didn't know what a dingo was until like, you know, an adult. So it's not like little kids were saying a dog ate my baby. And people are like, haha lion ate a bait. No, that's not with that. Right. All right. I think it was even a dingo took my baby stole my baby eight. Okay, it's eight. All right. So the Chamberlain family consisted of 38 year old Michael. He was this family's all set a seventh day Adventists. And he's

a pastor for seven day Adventists, his wife of 10, 10 years, Lindy, she's 34. And they live in the northern in northern Queensland, mining town of Mount Issa, with their three children of a six year old boy named Aiden, a four year old boy named Regan, and their infant little girl, Azaria, who's 10 weeks old. The couple's like super attractive. They're like, cool, whatever. She has a Dorothy Hamill haircut and wears the 80s dresses that I fucking am obsessed with with no bra, like that stylish kind of thing. Yeah, the day. Yes. And in the eventual made for TV movie, a crime, the dark she's played by Meryl fucking Streep. So you can imagine she was very beautiful. No, was that a made for TV movie or was it a full on movie? You're right. Full on movie.

Thank you for corrections, Coroner. Just because Meryl Streep. No, you're correct. I think it I think I see a movie from the 80s and it looks so corny that I'm like, there's no way this had this had to be. Well, and also it had that thing of like a family torn apart, you know, it has all those. Right, right. But you're right. And the father's played by Sam Neal. Yes. Who's the great Sam Neal? You know him from Jurassic Park. And Twitter. He is the best Twitter. He is the best on Twitter. He just shows pictures of all the animals on his farm. And like, and basically it'll be like him with a duck leaning in and he'll be like, the life or whatever. He's doing Twitter, right? Yeah. If he's on Twitter for 68 hours a week, then. Wait, can I just say one

more thing? Yeah, Sam Neal is also on Peaky Blinders. Okay. Moment of silence for Peaky Blinders. Okay. All right. Season five coming coming to you, Sam. Email Karen, tell her that Peaky Blind Areanos. I can't please don't do that. I'll have a nervous breakdown. I can't handle it. Okay, so we're in August 1980. We're fucking picking up where you left off, basically. The family goes on a camping trip to Central Australia's most famous natural feature, Ayers Rock. It fucking basically looks like a desert version of the mashed potato sculpture that they make in close encounters with the third kind, you know? I just saw, I just started watching Zachary Quinto's new version of In Search Of. Do you remember In Search Of from Leonard Nimoy? That's so amazing

that it's Leonard Nimoy and Zachary Quinto plays him because he played in Leonard Nimoy. Yes. And he also is interested in all the weird stuff. And I love Zachary Quinto. And at the very beginning of that saying they had this beautiful time-lapse shot of Ayers Rock. And yes, because I watched it last night and went, that's so weird. All I could think of was what a great shot it was because they did this thing where like the star, it shows the stars, how many stars you can see because you're in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. And it's gorgeous. And it's like you see the entire like swooping across the sky the way they do it. I love that. Like when you can see the Milky Way in the sky. I have to watch. That's, I love it. That's amazing. Okay. It's in the northern territory

of Australia. You gotta, you gotta be like, why would you bring it? The thought of fucking camping with a 10-week-old baby sounds horrible. But so I am, I thought of camping with myself sounds horrible. So I'm not the person to talk to about that. Not your style. No. They pitch a tent next to their car at a campsite. There's other campers there. It's, you know, it's a populated place. It's not like they were all by themselves or anything. Right. That day they did normal camping people stuff like the boys all went hiking and the mom, you know, kind of just wandered around, looked around the ship. And Lindy later said that she had seen a dingo cave. Sorry, a dingo near a cave. And she felt uneasy at it's found it's staring at her. And she said she had a feeling

that the dog was casing the baby. And I'm like, okay, so then I write, so what's a dingo? Webster's dictionary defines a dingo. So weird that you knew I was going to do that. So what the fuck is a dingo? Right. It's basically a fucking wild feral dog. You know, and it, it that makes you think it's really cute. So you're like, Oh, it's not that harm. It's like harmless, but it's not. It's like a coyote. It's like a coyote. Yeah. The dingo, it's a medium size canine, lean, arty body, blah, blah, blah, blah. Some of its prey includes kangaroos, cattle, water buffaloes and horses. And it's a dog size. So imagine like to have to take a dog attacking a horse. So they're fucking serious. They're serious. Their jaws like apparently open wider than

like regular dogs and stuff. They're like fucking scary. And they're like scavengers. You're not going to fucking tame this dog. No. So, so that night on August 17, 1980, I was just maybe two months old at that point. Two months old baby. Oh my God, I was the same age as her. Okay. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. Shit. No, it's not. It's actually not that interesting. I mean, but it's personal, which is fun. Yeah. 8pm. So it's well after dark. The stars are up in the sky. Lindy finishes breastfeeding Azaria takes her to the tent. The tent's about 30 feet from the picnic table where everyone's kind of congregating and hanging out places the baby in the bassinet on the ground, though, like makes a little makeshift bed covers her with blankets.

Then she takes one of the boys who wanted something to eat over to the back to the picnic table who and that boy for the rest of his fucking life is probably traumatized and has to have so much therapy. You have to feel so bad for these kids. At 815pm, the Chamberlains and the other campers hear sharp cries from Azaria in the tent. They hear the baby cry out. Lindy fucking books it for the tent just as she sees the dingo run out of the tent with something in its mouth. She goes to the tent. She's fucking looking in the, you know, blankets for the baby and can't find her runs out of the tent, runs in the direction of the fleeing dingo and yells, help a dingo's got my baby there. The adjacent, the other campers form a search party. They are,

there's authorities and local residents eventually totaling over 300 volunteers, including aborigine expert trackers with their dogs come and people are fucking trying to find this fucking dingo layer where this dingo took the baby. Dingo paw prints were noted in the sand outside the tent. The trail and the trail is followed, which shows marks indicating a dingo was partly dragging an object periodically setting it down, maybe to rest or to readjust its grip. And where the, where the object was put down, the depressions contain the imprint of a knitted garment. So it's pretty clear what had happened. The trail indicated the destination towards known dingo dens, but they lose, they lose the track and couldn't, they couldn't follow it any

further. So initially at this point, everyone's like clearly this exactly what happened. There's no doubting their stories by authorities or anyone. And a dingo was seen in the campground before dark by campers that same night. And one of the other campers said that a dingo had, and she ended up testifying, had tried to grab her older daughter by the arm, like, and they were feeding the dingo, like throwing food at it. Kind of, they were like, you know, not scared of them. Right. Sorry, but it, the way you just said that I've tried and grabbed her daughter by the arm, it seemed like the dingo hooked his arm with her arm, like, get over here. Get over here. Come to my cave. Let's skip. But no, no, with its mouth. Aggressive dog shit.

Yeah, dog stuff. Yes. And other campers heard a dog growl minutes before the baby, they heard the babies cry. So everyone was backing them up. Also, a park, the park ranger had recently warned that the dingo population was increasing and becoming very aggressive and had wanted to make, you know, do extra things to make sure people knew that. In the following days, dingoes in the area are fucking shot and killed. And their stomach contents gone through to see if there's any human bone or human protein. But there's no sign of his area and the chamberlands return home, which is so awful, so horrible. Okay, then a week later, August 24th, 1980, a photographer is shooting in the area, his name is Wally Goodwin, and he notices some baby clothes

in the brush. And found are a bloody jumpsuit, booties, diaper, and an undershirt all belonging to his area. Zarya, sorry. And he is like, I know what this is, he doesn't touch anything, he doesn't want to disturb it, he doesn't even take photographs of it, he fucking calls the authorities, they come, and he's really fucking surprised when one of the cops reaches down with his bare hand and just grabs one of the clothing before he even takes a photograph of where everything is laying. Oh, no. Yeah. He quickly examines the clothes, maybe to look for bones, I don't know why. And then attempts to place the clothing back in the way it was, but he lays it, it looks placed because it is placed, which makes, leads to people thinking that it was placed there by the parents,

the clothes, and it was staged. So they also failed to properly examine and photograph the tense interior. So there's no proper photos of those things. Blood, vegetation, and hair samples found on Azaria's clothing are examined and the tears and the fibers are studied to see if it's, you know, what a fucking dog or dingo attack would look like. And then at a wildlife reserve, dingoes are tossed meat wrapped in a baby's diapers so that the marks on the diapers could be studied and compared to Azaria's. Right. The media and the public go fucking bat shit, like this is their OJ Simpson trial, and like they go crazy for this story. Everyone is like torn on whether a dingo did it or not. People are like, there's no way a dingo would do that.

Dingoes did do shit like that, but it was usually the aboriginal people. So they didn't, so, you know, why people didn't care, didn't give a shit, didn't like hear about it. Yeah. Okay. So of course, as always, the case with this type of things, the Chamberlains, their demeanor is scrutinized by the media and the public. They, they don't observe what they would expect from a couple that had just tragically lost their child. And I kind of fucking get it because it, I mean, it's totally, it's creepy. So Lynn is asked in this one interview if she was surprised that the clothing that was found was hardly torn because there was just one tear by the neck and one little tear in the arm, not a ton of blood. And she calmly describes, and

there's video of it, of how a dingo, how a dingo attacks its prey and that it pause at the prey, you know, say like a fucking kangaroo to rip the skin off. And she says, peel it like an orange like an orange. So that's probably what happened with the clothes and why there wasn't a lot of like bite marks and shit on the clothes that just peeled it off. But she's talking about her fucking baby and she's like so stony faced and not fucking reacting at all. And it's weird, but we all know that, you know, you can't, we all know now that you can't judge someone's grieving process, but it's fucking weird. Well, and also, could she be on like Xanax or some kind of intense medicine that's, well, here's what she is, is a seventh day Adventist. And their,

their, their belief is that whatever happens is God will and they trust it in it. So they weren't in mourning. That's what some people say. Oh, they were like, yeah, she, God wanted her this to happen. They're not like, they're not devastated. And a seventh day event is fucking tell me about email me if I'm well, I mean, you're in mourning because you still have lost your child, but you, there's something, it's not that thing of like clawing at your hair going, why, why, why, right? Or like, you know, yeah, but still, like, yeah, but either way, like it is so crazy that there's only 30 years ago or whatever, but yeah, that it's such a different thing now, because it's like, you don't, who knows who slips people pills when they're like, oh, you're in the worst grief of

your life. They'll just take this for next two weeks or whatever. Well, of course, in an interview, she has a point where she's like, if I had been crying and bawling, they would have said that I was faking and acting if, and then when I, if I had a stony face, they would have said I was heartless, which is what they ended up doing. Also, she's really beautiful, which of course, just turns people against her immediately as well. Yeah, that's right. So newspapers, like the media, this is on the front of every, it sells so many fucking newspapers that any little thing they could get, and they were being fed a lot of secret information from the police, they would print it. So newspapers feel suspicion that they had killed their baby, because also seven day adventures

at this time in Australia is really misunderstood. No one really knows much about it. They report that rumors that the Chamberlains killed their baby possibly as religious sacrifice to atone for the sins of their church, or they were somehow linked to the Jonestown mass suicide that happened two years earlier. So they think it's either culty or they think like their witches and they had sacrificed her. Yeah. We didn't talk about your Jonestown. It was just that Jonestown, when the rattlesnake thing happened, Jonestown had happened the month before. Holy shit. So it basically, people were like, they shut it down. Yeah. Okay, so even Azaria's name, which is Hebrew, and it means blessed of God or whom God aids, they mistranslate it and they say it means sacrifice

to the wilderness, which is I think the translation in like a different language. So that they're like fucking C, but like, imagine if you really believe that it was true that they sacrificed her on Ayers Rock, and they're like, Oh my God, we just found out that the name means sacrifice, like that's fucking spooky. Yes. And it's the, it's the thing people love. And it's the, it's how, you know, like the tabloid press works in that way, where it's kind of like a beautiful person. Yeah. That's the worst thing we can say. Like we're unmasking a devil. Right. Everyone loves that story. And it's like, you know, I was watching all these shows and shit about it. And it's like the worst, the more unfathomable, unfathomable the event is, which is a baby getting murdered.

Yes. The more insane and like crazy the theories are going to be because people can't fucking handle it just being an accident or just being something else. You know, it has to have these connotations and shit. Which kind of explains like the thing that bothers me so much, which is that the sandy hook truth or people, which is Alex Jones telling people that this is a conspiracy. What the fucking fuck. But if you are the kind of person that has either mental issues or a face extreme loss or whatever, somebody coming in and telling you, Hey, guess what? That's not real. Thank God. I didn't want to believe in it. Thank God. 22 kindergarteners did not get shot. Like it didn't happen. You don't want it to. So you grab at what he's saying. And then you hold on

really tight. That's right. And that sounds like what this is. It's like, we can't have the idea. We can't have random chaos. We need it to be, we can't, yeah, we can't have that camping isn't safe. Even though there's a ton of people around and that something as simple as a dingo, snatching your baby, like that wouldn't happen because that's, you know, last week when I was having a bad week and I talked to my therapist about it, she was like, the reason you're having a hard week of all these things that are happening, like the shooting at Trader Joe's and shit, is because it's chaotic. Yes. And it's unexpected. And that makes it so much harder than if it's like someone you know dies of cancer or something. It's, you know, it's horrible and awful, but it's expected.

And yeah, it doesn't make you feel like a complete lack of control. Right. And it's that issue of you, I'm such a good parent. This could never happen to me. Yeah. And if the story is that it just happened to two great parents, not just good parents, but like religious, you know, good people, responsible parents, that opens a reality pocket that like there are people who can't have it. Well, that makes total sense because the shit they grabbed onto like once uh, Lynn or Lindy dressed Azaria in all black and a cute little black nighty and or like, and that's fucking against people can't handle a baby wearing black God forbid. It's not weird. So it must be Satanist or whatever. I'm just trying to picture and I also

can't picture. It is weird and hard to picture, but I mean, it was like a baby's dress, but it was also someone gave her the dress. Yeah. I don't know. Whatever. You can dress your baby in whatever fucking color you want. I mean, there's people who have babies who like have shit in the fund. This is like all shit on your hand or whatever. And people think it's great or like daddy's fucking I love to spend daddy's money or whatever. And they're like, what the fuck is this? I'm the daddy in this situation. What? You're six months old. Get out of here. The daddy in this situation is our new shirt immediately. Stephen, please write that down. And actually, the fan cult in the fan cult, we're going to be having contests to see

who can design our next piece of merch or whatever. And so I've joined the fan cult because I feel like that has to be the first one. I'm the daddy in this situation. I'm the daddy in this situation. But here are the rules. Please don't involve any babies in that picture. We can't have a dingo or a baby in that picture. Go to my favorite word. I'm joined the fan cult. Put your what's it called? Put your name in the in the fishbowl. Put your business card in the fishbowl. Count the marble. How many marbles are in the jar? Fucking 500. That's always say 500. This has gone off the rails. Yes, entirely. Okay. There are rumors. Okay. There's all these rumors about what really happened and why like they needed to give her a reason as to why she did it. So there's all

these bullshit stories. It's boring. And then of course, there's like a TV crew invites the TV crew is invited to film an experiment that the police do with a dummy baby pulled through the desert brush to see if like a dingo will get it or like what like so they're they're wanting the media to come see all this sensational bullshit. Another another to film a search of a sewer of a motel room where the Chamberlain said slept the night of the disappearance. So they're like fueling this shit. So none of these rumors fucking matter because on February 20th 1981 after an inquest magistrate in corner of Alice Springs Dennis Barrett gives his conclusion on live TV. You're like why would you do that? You're just fueling it. But he's like this has

gotten so fucking insane. I like let's just get this over with. And earlier in that day, there had been a bomb threat called in the fucking courthouse and they cleared out like because people are so incensed by this whole story like everyone is fucking losing their fucking shit. And he states that Azaria had died by a dingo attack. And that the he the coroner also chastised the police for shitty police work and said that he had felt some of the police may have been against the idea of a dingo being bought from the start and had like tried to find, you know, bullshit stories. Right. And that their evidence against the Chamberlains did not stand up and also note said that the clothes were tampered with after the fact all this shit.

Yeah. And the police are like, fuck this dude. Fuck this shit. We'll show you. Uh-huh. That's not good. No. And he they refuse to accept the coroner's findings. What? And this is the coroner's inquest. And as we listen to in the teacher's pet, like that's a really big deal in Australia. I feel like we don't do that as much here. Right. Don't lean on that as much here. But it seems like in Australia, it's like what the coroner's inquest says goes. Yeah. Right. Um, so the authorities theory is that Lindy took Azaria from the tent to the car, took her into the car, slit her throat, the baby's throat, then stuffed her body in a camera bag, the family's camera bag, because they found like clothing fibers in there or something. And then with Michael's

help. And after the searchers had gone home, they fucking run out to the desert and leave the body, bury her body, plant the clothes as a decoy because they had been folded and shit. And yeah, but they have no motive. They just, they just did it because they're seven. They had been us right because they're different. Yes. Um, and then so authorities get a second opinion. They're like, well, fuck you coroner. Our second opinion is from a British forensics expert named James Cameron. I love his films. Yeah. Do you? No. That's what I thought. Uh, he, this fucking pile of shit, dude, he sucks. He, uh, he later, later, like all of these cases that he had, uh, expertly testified in, of course, and gone, people prosecuted and charged for,

turns out he, he was full of shit and a lot of them. Oh no. But in the meantime, like that blood spatter expert. Exactly. No. Um, he examines the clothing and comes to the conclusion that Azari's throat had been cut and that he puts ultraviolet, uh, photos, shows up a handprint on the, in blood on the jumpsuit. And you're like, and he's like, here's the handprint. And then you're like, can't see a handprint. I have a question really quick. All of these, um, conclusions or whatever, there's no body. They're just doing it based on the clothing. There's no bones. All they have is the body. And you said all the, all the bones from the body are, Oh God, that sounds awful. It's not funny. Okay. All they was close. Yes. Right. Okay. That's

all they have. Um, so, but okay. We can do this. Okay. But I mean, he's saying these things of like a throat cut and stuff. Yeah. He's like, look at the fibers here. Look at the way the blood is. Look at the, you know, and then he's like, there's no dingo saliva on the, um, on the clothes, you know, all this crazy shit. And Lynn, and Lynn, uh, Lindy's like, the reason that what might be, because Azari actually had a coat over that was never found. So she had a, what they called a matinee coat, um, over all the clothes that they found and the matinee coats never found. So that probably would have taken the brunt of the blood and the dragging and the ripping because that's what she was wearing initially. Right. So she's saying that that's why it's there. But they're

like, well, what this bullshit missing matinee coat doesn't exist. They're saying, okay. Um, the Chamberlain's home and car is searched. Huge quantities of items are taken by police. And the vehicle is forensically grid searched by a laboratory technician with a biology background. They, she finds suspected blood stains, um, on the council and the floor and under the dashboard, which, uh, was described as our arterial arterial spray patterns, meaning like from your fucking neck spraying blood out your neck, which fits the theory that her throat was cut. Investigators can have positively identified the blood as fetal blood too. So it's a baby's blood. Okay. This is real, really happening. Like they see blood spatter in the car.

That's what they're saying they find. Okay. I don't like that. No. Okay. Despite all the eyewitness, all the eyewitnesses, all the people at the fucking campsite are like backing up the fucking Chamberlain's. They're like, this is exact, this is not what happened, blah, blah, blah. Uh, they, they police go back to, uh, question them again. All that they all have consistent stories once again, but the police told them they didn't want to hear anything about a dingo. They're like, tell me a story again. Don't fucking say a thing about a dingo. Like without a dingo in it. Very odd. November 1981, the Supreme Court in the, the Northern Territory quashes the findings of the first inquest. And in February of 82, the second corners in quest finds caused to

commit Lindy to trial on charges of murder. And Michael Chamberlain is charged as an accessory after the fact. So they go to fucking trial. They go to fucking trial. And it's of course, the mother. Right. The mother did. The mother did it. Um, an all white jury, nine men and three women, which of course the women would have been more sympathetic. So of course, nine men makes more sense for the prosecution. Right. Um, they hear over 150 witnesses. Many of them are expert forensic experts. Some of considerable note and evidence that Lindy, who's now by the way, seven months pregnant with another, another baby, they hear evidence that she had slit her throat, Azaria's throat with scissors in the family car and, uh, yeah, and tried to simulate a dingo

attack and like planted all this evidence to make it look like a dingo attack. Craziest. Yeah. It's crazy. It's go to a plate, go out and then around get around 30 people. Yeah. And then stage yeah. A multi-tiered dog based kidnapping. Totally. Insanity. But for no reason. For no reason. They also were like, we don't have to prove. We don't need to give you a motive. Like they were just not going to because she just because they just want to kill their brand new. Yeah. Also, you know how they say like the way babies are, the way their faces are, the way they look, it's all, um, what are they, it's made for our like base reptilian brain to love it because that's how we, that's why we take care of babies and care about them. No, it's, it's not, there's no, it

makes no sense. It makes no sense. It goes against everything. Oh, evolution. That's the word. Okay. Ultimately, she's found guilty. What? And despite the judge being like to the jury, yo dudes, this fucking evidence, like you guys know what reasonable doubt is like basically telling them, don't fucking do this. They do it. And you kind of understand it in a way like with the OJ Simpson trial. It's like these jury, the jury members are fucking probably terrified for their life if they vote the wrong way and piss off the police. So there's a poll that shows 52% of the nation's residents believe that she's guilty. So she, Lindy is sentenced to life imprisonment with hard labor. Fuck. And Michael's given a three year suspended sentence. Right. So he was,

of course. Right. One month after beginning her sentence, Lindy gives birth to a daughter. I know who she immediately after an hour has to give away. Well, over 100,000 of Australia, Australians signed petitions calling for her release. And everyone's super divided on this, like people are fucking fighting over this. It's insane. But then something fucking bananas happens. I mean, something even more bananas happens. I just got chills. Yeah. To hope it because I'm like, this is so hopeless. You know, this is crazy. No, I don't know. Okay, this is fucking crazy. So three years later, 1986, English, an English tourist in Hiker named David Brett was hiking at Ayers Rock. Yes. And he lost his footing and falls to his death in a little heat

to a little frequented side of that area. Oh, no, the rock sucks. He dies. Fuck. RIP David Brett. While they're looking for him, they find the matinee jacket. Oh, fuck. Oh, what a sad. I know. And yet thank God. I know that it's this whole story is worst case scenario in every way. I know. I know. So they find it eight days later. Okay, they find the jacket in an area full of dingo layers, like it's an area that's fucking crazy. They also Okay, so it's her jacket. And it's covered in blood and fucked up and crazy and shit. The chief and it also confirms her story of what happened. So the chief minister ordered Lindy's release from prison immediately. So on February 7 1986, so that's fucking six years after this after Azaria got fucking stolen, she's freed. And

they go and back and test that fetal blood in the car. And it turns out not to be blood at all, Karen. It turns out the drops are spilled chocolate milkshake and some copper or dust. And the arterial arterial spray was over spray from injected sound deadener applied at the car's factory. So they just sprayed foam on the car and they're like, Nope, that's fetal blood. What the fuck? Forensic fucking science. I hope at least two people got fired for that shit. I hope that shit. I hope so too. On September 15 1988, both convictions were quashed. They're pardoned, but they're not exonerated. Oh, man. And Lindy's fucking pissed. And she's like, Well, fuck you. You need to apologize to me like she wants an apology. And people still kind of fucking hate

her for this shit. Of course, that shit doesn't go away. So this day, people still don't totally believe her like ask half Australians. I don't know how many, but they still don't believe her. Well, can I just say one thing? Because then when things like get like this, then the rumors start. Everybody knows somebody who went to school with her, who did this with her, who has a seventh day Adventist relative who's this weird and that. Well, do you know that in one of our minisodes, we read a minisode by a girl whose father was the lead detective on this case. Oh, shit. And people got mad at us because I was, you know, looking up on our email and in Facebook group just to see if anyone had anything to say.

People were like, because she was like, Well, we have to say it's it was a dingo, but we all know the truth when he faced and people were like pissed at us because we just kind of glossed over and didn't know. But we didn't know. We were just reading an email. So like people are still fucking. And then I was reading like the Facebook, you know, threads about it. And some people are like, Oh, no, no. Wow. It's still divided. I remember reading that email because it was kind of like, it just seemed like that. But that's the thing. If you have somebody that's like the inside information, I'm the lead detective. I know things. I'm privy to information. I can't tell you. I tend to trust the lead detective. Yes. And that's enough. So of course, of course, she's

everybody's in their own cult. Yeah. Everybody's in their own cult, whether you're the cult of I believe whatever the police say, your fucking weird family, or I hate anybody that has a religion different than mine. Therefore, their their other and other has to be gotten rid of. I'm a fucking Sandy Hook, truth or bastard. We have to figure out these human issues before the world ends. That's right. Quickly, quickly, because there's so many stupid people out there, you guys. We fucking smart and popular ones need to fix this. Now, please, smart, popular people. Usually smart and popular don't go together. We're changing all that. We're changing that. And then we mispronounce every city in Australia.

Shit. Okay. May, 1992, Northern Territory government announced a payment of 1.3 million to the Chamberlain's compensation. But that's even less than their fucking that's far less than their bills, their legal bills, where it said, of course. And also later, people from that government were like, well, we didn't think we thought she was guilty. Still, we just had to let her go. So even they still thought she was what more do they need? I don't know. In February of 2012, a fourth coroner's inquest finally into the death of Azaria Chamberlain was opened by Territory Coroner Elizabeth Morris, finally a fucking sane person here. Elizabeth Morris considered new evidence concerning dingo attacks on humans, including three fatal attacks on children since

the third inquest. Oh, there was a dude, there was like a fucking expert forensic witness on this trial on the stand who said that dingo's mouth can't open big enough to like grab a baby by the head. And then the the fucking defense attorney just holds up a photo of a dingo with a doll's head in its mouth. And guys just like silent. It's just like all of these people being like, this can't happen. And then it's like, well, you're wrong. God, that's weird. Like this is a true witch hunt. Yeah. Yes. It's it's in a lot of articles. It's Salem-y bullshit. Yeah. So including three fatal attacks on children since since they started the third since they started the fourth inquest, there's been three fatal attacks on oh shit. And so it's like happens. Yeah. And then she

concludes that after 32 years, eight legal proceedings and tens of millions spent on the investigation that a dingo did indeed kill Azaria. And Azaria's death certificate finally has changed from unknown to dingo attack. Wow. And that's the death of Azaria Chamberlain. Shit, dude. Yeah, that's AKA a dingo ate my baby. God, that's it's just mind blowing. I know how I like I see these ones and I'm like, how have we never done this? Yeah, there's got to be so many other ones like that. I'll be honest when you first started, I was like, we've definitely done this. I texted Stephen, but I bet you it's because of that. I think it is. I texted Stephen when I thought of it and I told Vince was like, I'm gonna do it. And he was like, I'm pretty sure one of you did

that in Australia. I was like, shit, I texted Stephen, please tell me we did it. I mean, I'm so glad. Here's the thing too is like, it's, you know, we get it. It's like when you're divided and there's we there's lots of details we don't know and to actually be there and be involved. Yeah. Also this day and age, we're also used to the tabloid, you know, the crazy shit. We're all in that process. We get it. Yeah. But back then it's like the 80s when it really was first. You thought there was a bad baby, bad boy, if you saw it on the fucking cover of a magazine. Yeah. There's also a thing too where I think especially in Australia and like places like where this it took place is that unless you understand what it's like and out there in the

middle of the aboriginals could have been like, yeah, that totally makes sense that a dingo would have done that. But people who are from fucking Sydney or major cities are like, that's insane. A dingo wouldn't do that. Right. Dingo's, you know, keep to themselves or, you know, they're polite. I don't know. Right. But unless you're from that place, you don't understand what it's really like there. And I think it's the same goes for places like Petaluma or like with your story. It's like unless you're fucking living out there, you don't understand how secluded it is or how whatever the fuck and what the culture is. Right. It also makes me think of and this is a little bit of a weird left turn. But I don't know if you saw this on social media. It was at

a Cubs game and a player threw the ball to the little boy in the front row. Yeah. And it dropped and the guy picked it up and handed it to his wife. Right. And that clip got played and all these people went batship bananas and hated this guy. Now this guy looked he was like blonde shaved head with his Oakley blades. The little boy was really little and really cute or whatever. And it just looked like this weird sit to me, I will say the first time I saw it, it looked like this symbol of what we've turned into in America where people are just grabbing to get their own. They don't care who they knock over. And you know, it just I was thinking I was like the only reason I didn't immediately retweet it and be like this guy is because I was trying to think of like something

different to say than all the other people that were doing it. And the next day there was this article that was like everybody got this wrong. And it was all the people that were sitting around that guy and around that little kid that guy had already he had caught a ball himself and already given it to that little kid. So yeah, the little kid already had a ball from that guy. Yeah. And when they when the wife took this picture of the second ball, she then handed it to the little kid on her right. So as opposed to being total monster assholes, these actually were kind of the coolest people in the section. Yeah. And all the people around were like, yeah, I don't know what you're doing on Twitter, but like, they just didn't show that part. They only showed the second half.

We all have this like, what's the word like trigger, a hair trigger of being incensed and angry right now, which because there's a lot of shit that we should be incensed and angry about. So much that we are, that's all we do now is figure out who we hate. And I just think like, yeah, it's a human, it's a human thing to do is to get indignant and this is wrong and this guy needs to be called out because we've now we trust any picture we see. Yeah. The first thing that comes up headline headline headline, you don't read the article, you're just like, I hate that too. I know this this about that. Yeah. And it feels good to be self righteous. It makes us we feel so bad about everything else that it feels great to be self righteous and to call out an enemy

and be like that guy's the worst. And I anyway, after just reading that article, I just kind of went like, I have to at least put a pause on it. Yeah. And and at least acknowledge that's my instinct and I need to I need to start with the man in the mirror. And like, stop looking, listen to what is going on inside of you, what my feelings are, what is this triggering in you, and what this might be about? Is this about you? Or is this about baseball? Why do I need to visit? Am I am I jealous of baseball? Do you love baseball? Do I want to be at a baseball game? Vince has had a baseball game right this fucking moment. Dollar Dodger dogs tonight. I told him to sneak one home for me and I bet he won't. I know I am to sneak one home. Do you know how

terrible a ballpark dog would be three hours later in a pocket? Would I eat it still? Does he do that for you? Does he bring you Dodger dogs? No. Oh my god, that would be hilarious. If he does, I'll let you know. He's like onions, mustard. Yeah. I'll put it in my pocket. That's right. No, he doesn't. He does nice stuff, but that's not one of them. Thank God. Yeah, I think that's pocket Dodger dog. A pocket dog. Oh, hey, hey, Georgia. Brought you a hot dog. Oh man. But it's from this afternoon. I said yes. It's from this afternoon. I've been sweating. You open up the hot dog and there's another engagement. Another engagement. This is the most romantic thing a husband could do for an already married wife. Second time. We should go to a baseball

game. What is your fucking hooray? I will tell you and it's, no, I'm going to be a little bit riot girl about this and say I'm slightly embarrassed to tell you this and I've actually told you this already, but I'm going to say it for the show and of course for Stephen, who I want to know all my personal thoughts. I started, my therapist told me I was, I had a certain series of complaints where she went, I think you need to listen to Shonda Rhimes, the year of yes. Did you roll your eyes so hard that your head hurt? I was like, I certainly will and then I walked out angry. Like how dare you? It's so weird. It is really specific when your therapist suggests an actual thing like a book or an app or a, you know, person to listen to.

Cause that's, the mind doesn't do that a lot. So you have to take them seriously. Yes, exactly. Um, yeah. Also since she's been my therapist for like 14 years and she, I know how rarely she does it, but she had just listened to it and she's like, a lot of this reminds me of, she talks about a lot of this stuff. And so essentially it's so fucking good. Now I already have who, I feel like many of us, but I definitely have intense respect for Shonda Rhimes, who has an entire night of television, um, has had, I don't know if currently it's like this, if it's still, if this is still the lineup, but for years she basically owned Thursday night, which is fucking crazy. She's the showrunner of three massive hit shows. Yeah. And she's had,

but she's had probably six, but like three have been juggernauts. So, and yeah, there's no question she's a fucking badass. Insane badass, but then I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. And so in this story, she's talking about how she realizes her older sister tells her that she never says yes to anything. And, um, it's related to, she was invited to some party and she was telling her sister, oh, is this cool party? And their sister's like, but did you go? And she's like, well, no, I didn't go. And which of course, from that moment one, I was like, oh, this is me in a nutshell. And then it's like, you're going to make me go out on you. You're going to make me do things. So her sister, the way her sister said you never, you, you never say yes to anything

bothered her so much. And it's her older sister. She's the youngest. Yeah. That she decided for one year, she was going to say yes to everything she possibly could. But the way she breaks it down, I just listened to it. If you feel stuck, or if you feel like your life is smaller than you want it to be, or if it's big in some ways and tiny in other ways, and like you're trying to find balance, but you don't know how to do it. Kerry, stop talking about me. Talking about me always. Not only talking about myself. No, that sounds like me right now. It's amazing. And it's also this thing of when you just, she just talks about why she would

make these decisions. And one of the things that blew my mind the most is she talks about how she was, she was not even invited. She was just told that she would be going to the, the, those Kennedy center honors and she was sitting with the Obamas. And she says, the only reason I went is because it wasn't an invitation. So I couldn't say no. They just told me show up on this night. And that was the beginning of it where she, of course, because she said, I would have said no, I would have figured out a way to get out of it. And it's this thing that I think working people do, if you're a bit of a workaholic like me, you use the work and the busyness as an excuse to not do the things you love because you go, that's not important. I'm

doing the important shit. And then your life gets filled up with work and no play. And you become like a dried up old, one of those awful peanuts that's sour in the middle that you bite right fucking into and it's sour. And that it's like the way she talks. There's times where I was just fucking balling because you think of it like knowing me as the person you think it'll help me. Yes. Okay. It's just because also she's crazy smart. Yeah. And she talks about like the reason she's a writer is because she spent a lot of her childhood alone, keeping people away and just writing that the reality she wanted to be in. And it's really hard to stop doing that, especially if you then go on to be a professional writer. It's working for you in a lot of ways. So like

we are the kind of people like, you know, when you call your own shots, then you're just like, well, I'm I know best because I've gotten myself this far. Being a workaholic and having a fucking shit ton of anxiety has worked right now is like working right now for me. Yeah. So why would I stop doing that? That's why would I? Why would I like stop and have fucking self care? Yeah. And she starts talking about like some of the things are like, she plays with her kids like when her kid says, mommy, do you want to play? She sits down and says yes, even though she's on her way out the door to go to a party or whatever. And how that the way she judges what has value and what doesn't has have value changes because suddenly she goes, this is my children's lives. Of course,

I should be there for it. It's just that kind of stuff. And then I don't know everything about it struck so many one million chords for me in that way. Oh, I told you this part, which was my favorite. She calls laying on the couch eating and watching TV veal practice. And it's my favorite thing I've ever fucking heard. I have been in such deep veal practice pretending like I don't care. Yeah. And that's been a big mistake. So anyway, if you have any of those feelings, I highly recommend. I love it. She's very smart. And she also gave a speech. One of her there's a couple speeches included that she is given. Like one was a commencement speech at Dartmouth where she went to school. But one was at like the Hollywood Women's Association

of Superstar Women. And there's tons of crazy women, but she gives this fucking speech because it's like, they're saying she broke this glass ceiling. And she starts talking about all the women who tried to break the glass ceiling and didn't but slammed up against it and created the tiny cracks. And it I was like fucking sobbing. So she was like, thank you to all the women are here. And and thank you to all the women who didn't make it here. Are you kidding me? It's such a good it's such a good book. And it's such a it's like self-help that actually works while you're listening to it. I listen because I listen to it right immediately. That's great. Thank you. Oh, yeah. Mine, I just decided I'm changing a rule. My fucking hurry is going to be a thing that I

want to do in the next week. Okay. And I'm fucking naming it right here because I feel like it's the only way I'm going to get myself to do it. I like this. I also can can I pitch something? Yeah. That we this I really like this idea of like future goals. Yeah. And we can make up a fun name for it later. But like this maybe should be another thing. I like it too. I'm just going to go to a yoga class or go to the gym because I feel so shitty right now. I'm bad about myself. And I'm not fucking sleeping well. And I know that and I just don't feel healthy. And, you know, my back it's all these fucking things that I know will I will feel better if I start going back to yoga or go to the fucking gym for even a half an hour. But I just can't get myself to do it. Right. So

when next week when we're back here during fucking hooray, I'll tell you if I've done it or not. What can I say this? What if this is week one yoga challenge? We both go to a yoga class at some point in the next week so that when we come back, we have to tell each other about it. I love it. And this is my problem is I'm like, well, one's not enough. It's not going to do anything. I need to go three times. Like I'm just like crazy like that. So let's just say we need to go one time. Let's start small. Okay. Let's high five over it. Yeah. But not with your foot. Okay, great. I love it. Loud with your foot. Everyone let us know if you're fucking joining us for the one one time in a week yoga challenge. And also, I know it's hard to go alone. There's all these

reasons I I always say I'm going to go and then I go, I can't show up with this body at yoga. I know. Don't do that. Just don't do it to yourself. So I have to work out first because I'm not in shape enough to go to you. That's perfectionism ruining your good time. You don't feel perfect. Just fucking do things. Please don't have to be perfect. Because then that means I don't have to be perfect. And I would really appreciate that right now. We also speaking of if you just want to exercise and feel good, we have we want to give a shout out to the hashtag I'd look for you and all the incredible murdering us who are part of this movement in honor of our one of our listeners, Maggie Dykeshorn, who passed away recently while hiking. And there's going on August 5th,

that's the Sunday there's going to be around the country now all these fucking hikes dedicated to her. And I'd look the hashtag I'd look for you if you go if you there's Facebook groups, if you don't have Facebook, just look for look up the hashtag and you should be able to find, you know, a hike near you or start one if there's not. Yeah. And there's but there is a map of all the places where hikes are planned around the country. And I cannot believe this map. Incredible. I can't believe it. There's one right here in Griffith Park this weekend. Yeah. So really lovely. We just want to again, I mean, that's such a beautiful thing. And shout out to Maggie and, you know, and shout out to you guys for I mean, there's the idea that people are creating real friendships

and communities around a podcast is and and kind of being there for each other and do it's not like anybody, you know, people informed us you were doing it, but you're all doing it yourselves. It's such an inspirational thing to us. Yeah, that you guys get you get this shit together. And it's just so nice every day or I'm like just blown away. We're blown away that this this is our lives and this has happened and we're just so appreciative of it. And so thank you guys. We're so blown away that we have to stay on the couch. No, no, no yoga. We said we would and especially like, you know, with that in mind, with that in mind, like, go, go outside, move around, take in some other scenery. Yeah. Do it with a buddy. Yeah. And thanks for listening. You

guys are the fucking best. Yeah. Thank you for everything. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye. Yeah. He's right there. Oh, you want a cookie? Yeah, set it right into the mic.