My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 133 - Made of Crystals

Episode Date: August 9, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover the Gainesville Ripper and the Lady of the Dunes.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. Even though it looks like it's got a gene cover, I got it from Nordstrom Rack and it's like a denim cover.

There's no better place to talk about a denim iPhone charger cover, cord cover than a murder podcast. You're just bragging that she not only has a really long iPhone charger cord, but that it's covered in denim. It's got like a denim sleeve. So it's like a really long light blue snake? Yes. Like a garden snake.

Gross. We've talked about snakes like three times in the past. They're very sexual. Gross. Mom. Welcome. Hey, welcome. To my favorite murder.

The podcast where we talk about denim. And snakes. Welcome. Right up. Let's fucking. We have so many things to discuss, announce, and talk about that we can't even get into our usual zip, zap, zap bullshit that we do at the top. Because this is one of the ones that we've been saying to you guys.

We can't wait to tell you this thing. When we tell you, we promise it'll be worth it. This is the reason we're always tired. This is the reason we're always complaining vaguely about something. And putting up a live episode. And you know, maybe fighting. Maybe there's been light fighting. I think I've, this is one of the main reasons I started going gray this past year.

Is because we wrote a book, everybody. We wrote a book. And we wrote it for you. Oh my God. And it's coming out June of 2019. May of 2019. I said May of 2019, a May 11th of my birthday. Oh, I don't know.

Probably not. But it's called, it's called, you're not going to believe this title. It's called. This is nuts. Listen, it's called. Write this down. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. That's right.

That's what it's called. And here's my advice to people who want to write a book. Write half of the book and have someone else write the other half. It's a lot easier. We did this book like we do the podcast. And it was great. And also it's not, I don't think it's people, it's what people might think it is. It kind of, it's kind of what we didn't, it's not what we thought it was going to be.

It turned into its own beast, which is actually kind of cool. It's essentially like a memoir of all the fucked up stories we've lightly told you about on the podcast before where like, hey, remember that one time you lit the bed on fire and that one time I went to rehab and like, you know, all these like really, really personal fucking stories in our splice with true crime things that are related to it that we're interested in. Yeah. And it's just really, really personal and we both had to have a lot of emergency therapy

sessions. Yeah. There was crying for sure. I have to revisit all these awful like, what are they called stories of experiences? We have it like warning other people, cautionary tales that we are trying to impart on like 20-somethings with listening to the podcast. It dredges some shit up inside. When you're an amazing editor, Allie is like, hey, but what does it smell like and sound

and taste like? And you're just like, oh, I don't want to go back there. Yeah, I don't, you start to realize, oh, the reason that I procrastinate is not because I'm a bad person or all those things that I like to tell myself. It's like, oh, you don't want to sit there and think about your dead mom that much. Right. But you do it. But you gotta.

You do it for the book. You gotta. I mean, we wrote a fucking book about it. And honestly, I did get through some like crazy shit. I know. We really, we put it on the page people. So, you know, you guys, you know, there was a pre announcement and you guys, the reaction and response, of course, was amazing because you guys are amazing and that sounds so funny.

But we were very blown away yesterday is for us chronologically is when it happened yesterday. I was thinking about how this is just another in the series of the past two and a half years. That's like, it's like a montage set to eye the tiger of our lives where we just keep tripping upwards. It's very odd. It's just another one of those like seriously that this is fucking happening. Like it's insane. So it's on pre-sale all over the place where you buy books, Amazon, Stevens handing a thing

to you. Oh, the release date. Oh, the release date. Thank you so much. May 28th. I wasn't totally wrong. It's between our two birthdays. That's right.

They actually decided May 28th, 2019 is when this book is available. But you can pre-order it now and that actually really helps us out if you're going to buy it anyways and pre-order it because it makes it a big splash or whatever the fuck. Which it's already done. I mean, yeah. It's just an incredible, I just have always wanted to write a book and I didn't ever think I was going to. Yes, same here.

And I'm thrilled. We're both genuinely excited, which is very scary. So thank you for being there for us. We are very excited and God bless fucking America. Now, almost maybe more important, it's the yoga bulletin. Yes. It's this week's yoga bulletin. To say at this count of three, the answer of whether or not you and I, as we promised

last week, would go to one yoga class on the count of three, one, two, three. Yes. Yes. We both did. Yes. In fact, Georgia, did you do it the very fucking next day? Yeah. And it seems like I was showing off.

I know it's like a show offy thing. It was all coincidence. I didn't go to you. I was even, because I sent you a photo after the class. I took a photo in front of the sign and I was like, I went and I was like, maybe I should save this for a couple of days so it doesn't seem like I went the next day and I seem like I'm showing her that I did it first. No, I loved it because it meant you were fucking serious.

We've done a lot of things, let's say, you know, the My Sweet Adrina book club. Right. Where we start things and then we're just like, but now we can actually say the reason we couldn't do the My Sweet Adrina book club is we were fucking writing that book. So it's not like we can sit around and be like, here I'm going to type up my thoughts on this. It's like we always had. When we were in the fucking European tour, we weren't done with the book yet.

And we had just found out before we left the European that we had an extra week, which was like we were both ready to fucking jump off bridges. It was so stressful. When we were on the Australian tour, we were supposed to be getting the book done and we were not. And it was very difficult. You guys. It's been, we've birthed a baby of paper and words.

And I'm not, yeah, it's scary. It's big and scary and there's a lot of, there's a lot of blood and sweat on the paper. You can't guilt them into liking it. And also we're in the yoga ball and let's not go backwards. So it was, it was an accident. The next day on a Thursday, I had therapy at one and I was like, I'm just going to check that my favorite yoga studio down the street from my therapist, and it was like, 45 minutes after my therapy was over, this class was going to start by this teacher I

really like. And my favorite, it just all lined up because also, like I have so many parameters of like whether or not I'm going to go, like what time is it because the parking lot is going to be busy. And so I'm just not going to go, you know? Yeah. So we went. Parameters also excuses.

Excuses. There's all different ways to define that. I had 45 minutes. I fucking went into my favorite vintage shop down the street real quick, bought a cute 80s blouse, then went to fucking yoga, killed, like had a great class, this teacher is amazing. And it was like, and I, it was great. Yeah. It was fucking what I needed.

So I get that message from Georgia. I'm like, really impressed, genuinely. Very impressed. Oh, good. It was great because I know we both wanted to do it, but I want to do things all the time and I don't honor my, my own wants. Yeah. I'll be like, well, that's dumb and doesn't matter or you're to this and that and the

other thing. You tell ambitious Karen that she's being stupid. Oh, I mean, stop trying to make me cry. So I saw yours and I was like, yep, this is something it's important to do. And then the more we started getting, you know, you guys started tweeting us and being like, I'm a yoga instructor and I do this, I didn't want to go today, but I knew Karen and Georgia would be mad at me. Yes.

It's great. Use our anger at you. Please do. Cause it is real. We will be mad at you. And of course we constantly talk about our friend Lizzie Kuperman who, uh, Lizzie is a definitely a yoga person. So I sent her a message and I was basically to say, I gotta go to one of these and I know

I'm not going to. So can you please be my Sherpa? And she starts sending me texts of different yoga classes around town. But of course Lizzie is kind of not of this hemisphere of this even galaxy. She's like made of crystals. She's magical. Yeah. So she starts sending me, I sent you one that I thought I was signed up to go to and

then I didn't go to cause I freaked out and it was basically, she was like, all you do is lay there and they do gongs and chimes. This is not my style at all. I was like, I don't want to go with Lizzie because I know we're just going to put a bolster on our hips and lay there for eight hours. Yes. Can't do that. And do the gong.

I need to fucking sweat and stretch and like it. Lizzie was like, they're going to put peppermint oil in your hands and we're going to regress back to when we used to live on the savannah. There'll be a tarot card on your forehead to guess which one of the tarot card is. You win in membership. So I said I would do that and then at the last second I basically was like, I'm still laying down. This is weird.

Yeah. And I had to call in some phony excuse. She was like, don't even worry about it. Oh, you know what I did? I went, this is place of air conditioning. Again, requirements. Right. You're like, oh, it's not good enough.

And then it came, I can't remember what day it was. I think it may have been Monday. And then I was like, fucking do this, like stop it. And then I realized just go to one that's not in Hollywood. Yes. Get out of fucking. I don't even live in Hollywood. So like go somewhere small, cool, low key.

And I went back to a yoga studio I used to go to like it was easily like 11 years ago. And when I walked in, so I was like, I'm doing this. I signed up online so that I would go. Yeah. I paid the money already. Never do that. Did all those pre things. Was all like, I'm good.

And I went 15 minutes early in case they made you feel something out. If you get there early, if you don't have to walk into a room full of people, it makes you makes me like I get set up. I'm there. You know, it's not overwhelming. Yeah. And it's not, you're not tiptoeing and whispering, being weird. But as I hit the door, what did I forget tragically?

Your yoga mat. That's right. Oh, you can rent them there. Yeah. Have you ever smelled the yoga mats? They rent. It is like the sweat of what I'm yelling at you 1000. I was like, as I hit the door, I was like, well, that's just your payment for like being

so freaked out. And I rented this yoga mat. It was a great class. It was a gentle class. Yeah. It couldn't have been easier. The entire time I was thinking, there was a couple of things where we had to do like a downward dog into a leg lift.

And I was like, this isn't a grandma move. Like this was supposed to be a grandma class, but it was basically starting you grandma and then moving you into like, can you lift your leg off the ground? You might as well try. Yeah. Go on your tiptoes. And if not, move into child's pose. Yeah.

I also realize I can't do child's pose because you can't like sit back on your honches and I can't sit like my legs and of the way my body is shaped. Child's pose is essentially looks like I'm hunched over something trying to take it apart. Like you've passed out face first while you were sitting up on your knees. Yeah. It's just like I'm getting back up from having passed out. It's super weird. And I just sat there going like, oh, this is so embarrassing to not be able to do child's

pose. And then by that time I was like, who gives a shit about anything. I don't know what he's looking at you. Yeah. So it and then what I loved was the teacher of the class and normally this would freak me out. When I walked in, she was like, there's a lady behind the desk, but then the teacher was like, hi, what's your name?

And I was like, normally I would turn around and walk out. I'm so not a joiner. Yeah. Yeah. That stuff like that. I'm just like, I don't want to be friends with you. But she's like, what's your name? And I'm like, Karen.

She's like, have you taken this class before? And I'm like, I mean, I've been here, but it was probably and then I lie and shave five years off. And I was like, maybe six years ago. And she goes, six years. And then I was like, oh my God, I love this woman. She's not going like whispering gentle, you know, asanas in my hair. She was like, six years.

Well, and then she's like, well, she was here six years ago and was like kind of giving me shit. Oh, and you love that. I love it. I was like shamed into leaving. No. Because you know what happened? I went into mine and I was like, I think I have like, I had bought like a 10 pass class.

And she was like, yeah, um, you haven't used it in a year. So it expired. And I was like, oh, that's so embarrassing. I'm like, I'll just, I'll just pay. It's fine. I'll just pay. Even though it was like fucking $22 for a yoga class like on its own. And then when I came out, she was like, I just, I renewed your the classes you have

left over. Like, thank you. She's, that's truly a yoga move. Yeah. That's a yogic move. It was generous. That's, she's, I feel like her solar plexus chakra is all the way open. That's not all the way open.

It's all the way live. Basically, do you know what a yoni egg is? Do you? Yeah. Okay. Well, she has. Do you? That was the most sixth grade voice I've ever heard.

Do you? Do you know it? The thing of proven. Tell me what it is. Yeah. Tell me. Uh, draw a picture of it. Well, Gwyneth Paltrow.

Show me. Show them on her website. I bet she fucking does. Gwyneth and I just, I'm always, why did they have a baby? Horrified. No. She's just, she's also made of crystals. Okay.

Okay. Uh, I have a correction corner. Okay. Should I do? Oh, but also let's keep doing yoga, yoga, the yoga bulletin. Once a day. I mean, once a day. Just once a day, guys.

No big deal. Once a week. Once a week. Let's all go to yoga. If you can do more great, if you can't do one, do two next week, whatever. But like, and your speed, you can do an online one. There's a lot of great apps and shit that have yoga. Yes.

You don't want to go anywhere. So many. And also we got a lot of recommendations of online ones. Yes. So if you're looking for recommendations, look at other people talking about this on our feed. What about a fucking murdering me at yoga class? I bet there's so many murdering yoga teachers who can do like a murdering class.

Must be. Must be. Must be. Yeah. Let's do it. Strengths. Um, corrections. Spirituality.

Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. Did you want to keep going? With your yoni egg? Please. Here's an email. It's titled, well, here, I'll just say, hey guys, love the podcast, et cetera.

Just thought you should know. I just thought I'd shoot you an email to let you know that here in Australia, our majestic landmark is referred to Uluru, not Ayers Rock, Ayers Rock. So last week I did the Dingo Eat My Baby story and I called it Ayers Rock, but it's actually Uluru. And then this person says, using its traditional name shows respect to the traditional custodians, the Arna new people. And thank you for the fucking, she spelled it out or...

Panetically. Yeah. Panetically. Um, so I, yeah, a lot of people told me that and it's respectful and I appreciate that. On a completely different note, I've just started a weekly yoga class and it's making me very happy, fucking hooray. And then she, I guess there's a little yoga emoji, uh, stay sexy, Hannah. So thanks, Hannah.

And thanks for everyone letting me know, uh, to be honest, I, it just said in the, on the Wikipedia that it's called what either one and the one that looked hard to pronounce, I didn't say. Yeah. So now I know. Yeah. This is how we learn and grow. Right.

Right. Um, speaking of, I'm really quickly want to plug the summer camp line, limited time summer camp run. It's people are sending us photos and it looks so fucking cool on everyone. And we also want to let you guys know, uh, one that 5% of all sales for the summer camp line go to camp hope, which is a summer camp for kids who have experienced trauma and, um, and, uh, violence, like domestic violence and, oh, we are replacing the, uh, tent design that's the TP design with a new tent.

So keep an eye out for that. We're getting rid of it. We heard you. Keep an eye out. Yeah. That's it. Go to my favorite room at the store. At the top.

There should be like a summer camp clicky thing. Click on that. Sweet. Okay. Anything else for you? I'm sorry. I yelled at you. Um, that's okay.

I mean, I'm going to get back at you later on this week. Maybe I'll trick you into coming to my yoga class and then I'll readjust you in a bad way. Don't put peppermint oil in my hand. Looking for a better cooking routine with meal planning, shopping and prepping handled hello fresh has you covered. Hello fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year.

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Goodbye. Hey, I'm Mike Corey, the host of wonder is podcast against the odds. In our next season, three mask men hijack a school bus full of children in the sleepy farm town of Chowchilla, California. They bury the children and their bus driver deep underground planning to hold them for ransom. Local police and the FBI marshal a search effort, but the trail quickly runs dry. As the air supply for the trapped children dwindles, a pair of unlikely heroes emerges.

Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. All right, who's first? Yeah, Georgia first. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Stephen is.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. This is a really fucked up story that I'm fascinated by even though I didn't know a ton about it as always. Get ready for the horrible story of the Gainesville Ripper. Oh, Jesus. I went there, but don't worry, I'm, it's not. Did you check with Stephen?

Did you do it? We've never done it. Have we? I don't think we have. Okay. Do you think you did it in Florida? I feel like I looked it up in Florida and then bummed me out so bad I didn't do it for a live show.

I don't think you would have done this for a live show. Yeah. So it's like such a classic serial killer horror show and he's a fucking bastard who just wanted attention. Right. So I don't actually talk about his life really at all because fuck him and I'm not going to go into too much of the gruesome details because it's unnecessary to say anything too deep in there.

Go for it. Okay. August 1990, here we are in the beautiful university town of Gainesville, Florida. It's ranked as the 13th best place to live in the United States by Money Magazine and you know Money Magazine. Sorry, what year? 1990. Okay.

So it's like, it was a weird time. Yeah. 90s, like end of the 80s, you know, it's like this, this, there's that, it's still kind of an innocent time. There's no like big, there was this and that, I remember, end of the 80s, start of the 90s, there's this, there's that, it's like still a little like antiquated as far as like technology is concerned. There's no technology.

There's none. There was, we were still in full pay phone mode in 1990. Yeah. If someone had a car phone, they were a drug dealer. Or a doctor. And they were like the biggest car phone you've ever, it was like one of the seats had to be removed for your car phone. Yeah.

It actually was the seat you leaned over and stuck your ear on this passenger seat. You removed one door and held it up to your ear of your Ferrari. Like a DeLorean. Like a DeLorean. The door had to be open. And that was your phone. That just reminded me of my next door neighbor, Andy Winnington, who is a legendary human being.

And when we were growing up, was one of the funniest people and one of the oddest people. He, when car phones became popular, this was back in the late 80s when it was like preppy time and people, everyone pretended they were rich, which I actually talk about in one of my chapters of the book, how the 80s made everyone think that they were supposed to pretend to be rich and which is why we have this weird cult of Donald Trump because it's all those aspirational people are like, someday I'll have a gold department and it's like, why? But just aspire to not be a piece of shit and like have a little bit of savings so you don't go broke.

If you get sick because you don't have health insurance, it will cover anything. Yes. Anyway, my next door neighbor bought a fake car phone that he used to, yes. And if we could see, I wish it was called like bull something. So there was a picture. Basically saying it was bullshit and it had a, one of those real tight wrapped cords. Yes. But it was a corded car phone.

So it was like, he would pretend to talk on the phone in because he had bought himself a used Porsche. Oh my God. He was all about that life and it was one of the funniest things could he would just pretend to have fake conversations. Because he wanted to be seen as someone who had one or because he was thinking it was funny. Oh, because he actually wanted people to be like, holy shit, he's got a phone.

I think both. I think he thought it was larious, but he also did want to look like a doctor status or a rich person. Yeah. Just pop those fucking eyes, odd double eyes, odd colors. He also had, he bought, he had a litigra and he had his grandma so an eyes on alligator on over because he like somebody, he had a ripped eyes on. And I remember him showing me the final product, which was Frankenstein eyes on alligator, which

was really raised up because there was a little tip, whatever the, the tiger one was underneath it. And I was just like, sorry, where are you going to wear this? Yeah. You're going to get beaten into. Nobody cares. Submission. Yeah.

It was hilarious. But we all cared back then. Self-help, work on yourself. Well, there you go. You got all the solutions tonight. That's right. I just had Karen run down with the 90, 1990 was like, you got it. Money magazine, of course, was like a big, like the best place.

One of the best places live by money magazine where it's like, God, money magazine. Yeah. You think they have anything we want to read about in there? And this was the era of like greed is good. That whole thing where it has never gone away and it's done real damage to this culture. Okay. So August, 1990, it's the beginning of a new school semester at Florida State University in Gainesville.

Gainesville is like a, a big college town. So like the population doubles during the school year. Wow. It's like one of those kinds of places, but it's also like cute and like a nice little town, um, about 36,000 students came to campus and we're moving in excited to start the new school year, which I'm sure happens when you're in college. I wouldn't know. Uh, but little do they know that their town is about to turn into the inspiration for

the 1996 hit horror film, Scream. Did you know that? I didn't. Um, so on the Sunday before class was about to begin, August 26th at 4pm, a police officer arrives at the Williamsburg village apartments because of complaints about loud music and, which is not unusual, obviously, for a college town when the cop arrived, he finds the building maintenance van waiting along with the parents of the girl who lives in the apartment where the complaint is happening, 17 year old Christina Powell of Jacksonville, Florida.

And um, her parents are worried because they hadn't heard from her all weekend, which of course, again, police are like, that's totally normal. But when he found out that her car was still there and she knew they were supposed to be showing up that day and still haven't answered her phone or her door, they were worried. So he starts to worry, um, and she hadn't been seen since Friday. The parents of Christina, her parents are also worried about her roommate, Sonia Larson, who's 18 of Deerfield, Deerfield Beach also hasn't called home as scheduled, uh, that day.

So there, neither of them have been heard from the parents are told to wait outside as the maintenance man and the officer go to the apartment's door on the second floor. They bang on the door. There's no answer. The maintenance man tries the key and for some reason, the key won't work. So they break the window of the, um, of the, what's it called, door, the door, sliding glass door. No, they break a window on the door frame.

They can't reach the lock, but they can immediately smell a strong foul odor coming out of the house as soon as they break the window. Being scary. So together they break down the door and, um, as soon as they enter the apartment, they find the bloodied naked body of Sonia on her bed. She had been stabbed over 20 times in the back and raped and then, uh, posed in a sexually explicit way and, um, she had been mutilated. The body of Christina is found downstairs to stab repeatedly mutilated and also posts

in a shocking way, like on purpose, which we know a lot of f*****g psychopaths do. So police are shocked at the f*****g savagery of this, uh, attack. One local reporter says it was the first time he had not been allowed directly in to see the crime scene, which freaked him out. And also he said that, uh, he knew something was wrong after he saw one of the seasoned officers rush out of the house and barf in the bushes, which is like that, that's not what you want to see. Because whoever, who would, you're never so seasoned that something like that wouldn't

if it's completely traumatized you as a person. Totally, totally. But then you, you know, as someone, as like a bystander, like that's, I don't want to see the police officer not being able to handle what he just saw. That's the absolute worst. So, um, a neighbor had reported that they had heard someone showering and playing loud music on the Friday night. By the way, it's George Michael's faith.

For some reason, I don't know why that was an interesting fucking tidbit as well as banging sound that he thought was just the girl's hanging paintings. So it was determined that they probably had been killed on Friday night, um, detectives worked the scene late into the night, the news and gruesome details spread through the college town, including that the killer had removed and taken one of the girls nipples with a sharp blade and of course fear and panic totally ensue all these like fucking young college kids who had just arrived for the new semester. And they were right to be fucking terrified because, uh, before they had even packed up

at the first crime scene, detectives are called to the second. Oh, can you fucking imagine the, I feel like I read about this while it was happening, but I was 10 years old, so that can't be right. Uh, Christa Hoyt is 18 of Archer and she had not arrived to her midnight shift as a records clerk at the sheriff's department and she wasn't answering her phone. So at 1230 in the morning, two officers arrived at her front door and knocked. They got no answer. They saw her car was parked, of course, close by the building manager shows up and brings

the officers around to the back of the house. But immediately the building manager notices that something's wrong with the gate. It had been knocked over like this is damaged. This is a problem. So the officers make sure no one's in the backyard and then they try the sliding glass door, the back door, which is locked, but they noticed that the blinds didn't go all the way to the bottom of the door. So they crouch down on their hands and knees, look through the fucking little space that

they can see. And to their horror, they're able to see the body of a naked woman sitting on the edge of the bed and she's like folded over, kind of just sitting there with a pool of blood at her feet. She still has her shoes and socks on and they realize that the body doesn't have a head. Oh, I know. The officers hear the water running inside the house and so they wait for backup in case the killer's still inside.

I think it was that they heard a shower running and once backup arrives, they enter the house. It had been ransacked for valuables and they find water dripping in the shower and blood pooling, but no one was there. So like was the killer there when they were, when they first spotted her body. They also find Krista's head and it's placed in a shocking manner just to like get the attention and her body is also mutilated. So news fucking spreads like crazy through the community. This is within like two days this is happening.

Students were terrified and they knew that anyone could be next. The Gainesville phone lines are jammed and like not working because so many students were trying to call home and so many parents were trying to call in. This is why I don't want kids is the thought of like your kid being there and how fucking terrifying that would be. I just couldn't handle it. I honestly feel like I would have just left and gone home. Yeah.

I think that's what's interesting too about it is like you think about what I have done. Yeah. And so many left with so many didn't too, you know, because there's a lot of people they just don't have that option or like it's that thing where, you know, like how much joy I need to panic right now. Yes. And there are some people who don't kind of either maybe know that much about stuff like this like we have spent a lot of time in our life going this is a thing that can

happen. It's going to happen again. Right. But there's some people who I think dissociate a little bit or just go like that's not about me. That couldn't happen to me. Yeah. Totally.

Yeah. That's very true. Students but also students like stay together overnight. Some of them say as many as like a dozen to 20 people per apartment like they're just all camping out together. Okay. Just complete sidebar separation. Let's do it.

This is horrible. Great. That's a break. Would be so fun. I'm sorry. I mean any excuse not that scenario obviously is in no way fun. No. No.

I get what you're saying. Separately if like for me. Yeah. When like I lived in New York very briefly and one time there was a blizzard that hit and we we literally had to walk to the closest person's apartment and I'll stay the night there. Yeah. I live for that shit.

Well that reminds me. Like overall like you have to jam everybody in and everyone's like oh my god and then you play games and get drunk and that reminds me and I think this is a better this is what you this is what you're talking about but it's not it's awful but not as awful as I know. I knew someone who when the when the riots happened the Rodney King riots happened. They were like in Hollywood at a friend's party and they all went to the roof and like saw the city burning and like no one would leave so they all stayed in the apartment

for like a couple days yeah and I'm sure they got highest fuck the whole time yes. So no one wants to sleep alone also like lounge area in residence halls turns into like sleeping areas for students who live off campus sorority houses hire full-time security guards but like what if the security guard is the murderer you know they sleep with baseball bats and mace in there under their pillows extra locks are installed on their doors and windows gun sales soar helicopters all over town at night etc you know people are freaking the fuck out as they should be students are told that they would not be penalized for missing class or going home which a lot of them did but try to penalize me yeah yeah good great yeah I'm

going to Europe for the summer yeah school year then on Tuesday so that was Sunday the first the first victims were found the next night the second the third one's found then Tuesday so coming up on August 27th just two days after the Hoyt murder two more victims are found Manny Taboda and Tracy Paulists they're both 23 years old their roommates Manny's a guy Tracy's a female Manny is like six three fucking you know had been in high school athlete he's like Bill and everyone loves him he's over 200 pounds and Manny and Tracy had been friends since high school so her parents were stoked when she was like I'm in a roommate with my friend Manny and they're like great she's fucking safe which

100% you would think so and so a friend of their of the two of them had asked another friend that lived in town to check on them when he hadn't heard from them since Sunday the maintenance man unlocked the door and they immediately spotted Tracy's naked bloody body in the hallway and the maintenance man they immediately like leet that he does what he should he leaves and fucking locks the door on the way out and calls the police like you know making sure the scene is safe and no one's gonna go in there but the police are five minutes later they find the door is now unlocked from the inside and the maintenance man was like when we came in I saw a fucking black like duffel bag near Tracy's body and

it's gone now dude oh can you fucking imagine so the only reason probably that that may have been the maintenance man lived was because he was so smart to go do not contaminate this crime scene him and the friend who had come over they were together oh he wasn't like oh no what's going on let's go search for Manny right because he saw that body they were like let's step back and let's get out of here unbelievable isn't that insane and the fact that he remembered like you see something as horrible as that and the fact that he remembered that there was a bag there still you know because you're like having the shock moment is insane so Manny's body is found in his bed and he was dead of a vicious struggle

with someone who had a knife and so basically it looked like someone had come in to subdue Manny so that they could attack Tracy and it's probably because of the interruption that there's no mutilations this time but who knows what would have happened if he had been found out later Gainesville fucking blows up you know the media goes crazy there's comparisons with the Ted Bundy killing spree in the college town of Tallahassee Florida in 1978 and Ted Bundy had been sent to the electric chair just a year before these murders started happening everyone's like this is fresh yeah and we're the ones that killed Ted Bundy and now this is going on the comparisons also quickly made to Jack the Ripper because of the mutilations

and that's when the media picks up on the moniker at the Gainesville Ripper and that's like plastered on the fucking front cover of every magazine all over the country this point by this point the bizarre murders had attracted widespread media attention there's all these fucking news outlets and it does kind of remind you of the movie scream you can see where they got a lot of this stuff because I mean it makes sense well I'm sure there were you know every once in a while you drive through LA and you'll look over and they'll be like a KTLA news fan with the antenna all the way up totally and someone standing on a sidewalk doing a man on the street yeah like of course that was happening

all over that city right because that is what is what is a huge your story then there is an active like berserking serial killer on the loose and what's so crazy about it is all these women these like it was like small brunette women that were being killed and suddenly a fucking man who like a big athletic man is attacked and killed too and so everyone's like well now nobody's safe this isn't just like women who live alone right it's like you're not even safe with your fucking best friend who's a dude who's like gonna protect you right it's like scaring everyone now and they're like all you know the media are trying to get fucking interviews with all these college students who are freaking out I'm sure there's

a ton of good fucking footage online that's so 1990 you can't even handle it just tons of scrunchies and crying and then in the background you want to call me baby is that when that was okay I don't know of course there's enormous pressure on the games of police to find the killer duh there's a lengthy investigation ensues with over 6500 leads and over 1500 pieces of evidence 6500 fucking leads initially though the police had very few credible leads to go on and they did like there's a couple people that got a fingered for it and got like in the media spotlight and kind of like their lives ruined on yeah I don't want to get into cuz we don't you know suck is it ruin their lives ruin their lives yeah yeah

so they're not connected immediately let's so this is like all right let's start somewhere else here we go 10 days after the last murder on September 7th in Ocala Florida about 40 miles from Gainesville police arrest a dude named Danny Harold rolling he's 36 years old he fucking looks like a young Al Bundy like he looks like Al Bundy to me and Al Bundy yes yes okay you know what's his name the actor who I now think of is just from modern family like it would and well I'm not the opposite but it's just such a refined version of Al Bundy I love that guy give me a second I'll remember his Ed grimly yeah damn it nor no Ed Vince's I mean Vince oh my god Steven or me Ed don't say it Ed Harris no Ed say

it Ed O'Neill damn that we would never get there I would have gotten it you wait really quick yeah my dad we were watching modern family one day my sister loves that show I love it too it's yeah good very consistently well written for years and the people on it are amazing my dad walks through the room Ed O'Neill is on this screen and my dad walks through the room this he's an amazing handball player what and keeps walking that's such a dad thing to say handball I'm like even not from Brooklyn like what are you talking about like oh my god it's like hitting smacking things against a wall in Queens that's when dad would have been like oh yeah we used to play at the why yes exactly he just had that tidbit of information

yes and he read an article I bet he read like a what's the old timey people AARP even AARP article with Ed O'Neill that talked about how much he loved fucking handball it sounded to me like he had a friend who also was good at handball and maybe Bragg that he knew the guy like modern family 25 years ago probably or 70 years ago I mean like it's such an old sport yeah it was hilarious and of course we start laughing then we're like wait we have to follow questions he was already like out in the driveway dad dad's dad okay so this fucking dude this Ed O'Neill 36 year old Ed O'Neill dude which like you see these photos of people you shouldn't call me Ed O'Neill you're right you're right you see these people

and you're and you're like that's an that's guys a gross old serial killer and then you're like wait that guy's younger than me in that photo yeah it's bananas hard life hard living proceeding hairline but if you hadn't seen that eat I don't know there's just something about him that's like aged hard life for sure okay aged shark dead shark eyes no absolute piece of shit yeah biggest piece of shit so September 7th so this shit all happens and started on August 28th and now we're on September 7th and 40 miles from Gainesville the stewed 36 year old Dan Danny Rowling is he's a drifter who was born in Shreveport Louisiana he'd been arrested on the state after an armed robbery of a Winn Dixie should we go to Winn

Dixie no I've never been me neither but I wore a piggly wiggly no me neither neither shit I think are they closed I don't know everyone let us know they'll all let us know any rhetorical question we ask gets answered and you should see how I spelled this because I was in a hurry okay I know there's an there's a K next to an X all right so police at this time when he gets arrested for this armed robbery police are focused on this mentally ill student who had been evicted from the apartment complex where where Tracy Paulus and Manny had lived so there's this dude who lived there he's their prime suspect because he had his roommates were like you're fucking bananas because he was not taking his medication

at the time yeah and some issues and he was like a little fucking I mean he was an okay suspect because he was a little bananas but like quickly he didn't turn out and he was their prime suspect this is the media being like this is the guy with his face on the fucking cover it's not him so well in custody Rowling he's a super chatty like he wants to talk about himself a lot he admitted to the robbery he also admitted to shooting his father which he's wanted for okay his dad's a retired police lieutenant wow you know and then there's the like story of fucking this dude's life that's like horrible and his dad is piece of shit and all this stuff but it's like well that's no excuse to kill people

is it the standard kind of abuse cycle and alcoholism and standard all that stuff yeah okay standard okay so he had shot his father in the stomach and the head during an argument but the dad lived and just had like his eye got shot out and like one of his ears and like some crazy shit and so it was a real awkward Thanksgiving that year you'd think so during the argument four months earlier and he had taken the fuck off as a teen he had been caught peeking in windows to watch girls shower and undress it sounds like a lot like similar to the Golden State Killer kind of the way it ramped up yeah he then had become a drifter he had committed armed robberies in Alabama Louisiana and Georgia

like he had been in prison and that sort of thing so but he wouldn't even be suspected like as the Gainesville Ripper until about three months later so for three fucking months everyone it was so when this dude that they arrested the mentally ill guy who's in prison now for like some other thing the murder stopped so we got our guy but so but but for three months they hadn't for sure caught someone you know which sounds there was no link evidence linking this guy right except for that he lived in the apartment right I mean yeah yeah so three months later when after he's arrested when the game this rolling is arrested when the Gainesville murder task force they start looking at inmates in central Florida jails

prisoners who had been arrested after the last murder attributed to the Ripper so I think they finally find out that this at this kid is not the culprit and they're like let's we need to do some fucking work right now so they also do the let's see so in in they call all these different counties including Shreveport which is Rowan's hometown and they request Gainesville requests similar crimes like that sound the same and they noted that the similarities to the five murders in Gainesville matched a triple homicide that had happened in Shreveport in November of 1989 Julie Grissom she's a 24 year old girl her nephew Sean Grissom who was eight and Julie's father Tom Grissom who was 55 had been discovered stabbed to death

in Tom Grissom's home in November of 89 Julie's body had been mutilated clean and then posed in a really similar manner her hair had been like spread out and it was just like a very similar horrific thing when that you don't forget and when someone calls you and says this this is how the bodies were found you fucking immediate or like yeah this the happened here too yeah so the task force task force in Gainesville reexamines every crime that had happened in the Gainesville area at the time of the Ripper murders which I think is so cool like anything including a bank robbery oh so they noted that on August 27th 1990 the day Hoyt was discovered Danny Rowling's hobo camp had been found by police in a wooded

area located near the apartment complex where some of the victims had lived so in some like fucking light woods there's this fucking drifter sets up camp and has all his shit there and like the cops had seen him he ran they followed him and they found his campsite but he had gotten away so the police had found at his campsite a bag of money with pink dye from the bank robbery so like when the fucking money the dye explodes and shit which is such a bummer right all that money ruined I mean pink yeah like at least have a nice cool color so he had left everything behind they they fucking packed up his whole campsite and put in storage like just in case they could find him at one point but like without going through everything

and seeing the connection between the Gainesville Rippers unfortunate Ripper murders unfortunately but how would they have known right so at this point they pull that fucking shit out of storage right they send it out for testing and so when Danny Rowling had gone into jail for the Winn-Dixie fucking thing he had like a bum tooth and so the dentists had yanked the tooth they had kept the tooth they got a fucking warrant for the fucking tooth to DNA test that motherfucking thing no do you think that that jail dentist just had the tooth in his pocket or do you think it was like in a little test tube somewhere I think he strings them all around his neck whenever he pulls a fucking tooth I love that because

it's like it's your rotten tooth no one's gonna think to be like I need that back I want that yeah and they got a warrant like they got a warrant still had it even though it was in their custody and happened at the jail you I would think that they wouldn't need a warrant for it because it was done there right but nope they need a fucking warrant for it which is so cool we have a lot of protections right so there's a DNA test and the results reveal that 1990 like that's pretty new right the DNA is consistent with the killer left at the murder scene and they're like oh this is our dude also a screwdriver that was in that storage unit had been found in his hobo camp and it found 17 matches between

the screwdriver and the pry marks at the murder scene so he even when the doors were locked he was able to pry them in which I mean sliding glass doors you guys get those dowels that you put so you can't you know like the dowels that you put there let's just all do that please I'm so scared of them they also do this fucking this fucking idiot so he's like he has a guitar and he writes fucking country songs Danny Rowling uh-huh and he records and he's like a tape recorder oh and he I mean some yeah you're saying they're good they're Amy no they're like I just hate this guy he records like Matt he had recorded at the hobo camp like messages to his parents of like he basically is like the night that

he goes to kill people he's recording like a cryptic like I have to do this thing don't hate me for this and then also recorded all these country songs that he wrote and they're just like so terrible and embarrassing and like horrible he just sucks so bad and then like I listen to a podcast and like play one of the country songs with like horror music in the background and it's like you can't you still this is still a terrible song yeah it's not horrors like right it's not scary it's horrible lots of people do this it's bad music he just fucking sucks it's not creepier because he's a fucking serial killer but it is crazy that he is making those choices to record himself like to basically make make

evidence against himself yeah well okay well let's get to this stuff because it's the same thing with like when people when like fuck and John Wayne Gacy's like I'm a painter by my shit and it's like well it's not that good but it's John Wayne Gacy so you'll buy it I think it's the same kind of thing or it's like but I'm fucking Danny Rowling so it's you know it's a serial killer's music because he wanted to be famous all right I wrote he sucks so bad he's charged with several counts of murder in November of 91 in 94 nearly four years after the murders Rowling was finally brought to trial he claimed that his motive was to become a quote superstar much in the same way as Ted Bundy so he wanted to be famous

he wanted these like recordings to be like you know studied and shit he unexpectedly pleads guilty to all charges and the reason he does that is because he doesn't want to see the crime scene photos at the trial oh like he just doesn't want to go through it yeah okay it's like I can't even look at the crime scene photos wow yeah dude you were there for it you were there dude you created these crime scene photos Jesus he's diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder and borderline personality disorder after his not that anyone with these fucking conditions would do something like this just get that out of the way and after his trial he sentenced to the the death he sentenced to death for the murders in Gainesville

good which was one of the things that if you plead guilty it's more likely that you can be charged the sentence to murder which is interesting sentence to death yes well in prison okay here's this fucked up shit you're ready for this well in prison it's been pretty fucked up already here's some more fucked up shit okay which I didn't know about before I studied this while in prison he approaches a controversial American true crime author named Sandra London have you heard of her no she is like a she's a true crime author like and rule but without scruples so he tells her he wants to tell his story through her eyes because he wanted to write a book about everything and he needs her help with it okay

so they collaborate in writing a psychological memoir which includes his rolling confessions to the five murders along with other capital crimes for which he had not been charged just like once everyone to know everything because he's a fucking show off and so Sandra London and fucking rolling are sued by the state of Florida under the son of Sam law which means that you can't make money off your crimes right also though Danny rolling and Sandra London fall in love and get engaged can I read okay about their first meeting in person she says I approached my meeting with Danny thinking I was prepared for anything but there was one thing I was not prepared for I had no idea what a fine looking man he is today

instead of the broken and dejected loser I'd seen on TV standing before my hungry eyes is one gorgeous hunk of a man no honey honey because also that's just bad writing it's also bad writing it's terrible yeah well she went on to write 50 shades of gray here's the thing about people that fall in love with serial killer especially serial killers who just who've just told you everything they've ever done yeah they're not even like lying that they didn't do it no you sit there I mean you've told me what he's done and I'm not look I don't know what the pictures look like I don't know anything and there's a couple of things I wish I didn't have had to have heard the idea that she would then be like

I need to be with this person there's something like that thing I think it's like you might be lady you might be confusing like trauma stress shock like all those feelings are like I have butterflies no you're fucking scared for your life it's fucking idiot your fight or flight response yeah you're basically kind of like you're trying to get get small and be like tick pity on me and then he did he does of like well I'm I like you little lady and it's also the thing of like well I know him like he wanted to open up to me of all people and I'm special and she's like he's totally psychopath but like she says like psychopaths are like crystals where they have these multifaceted layers and it's not just

one thing and blah blah blah blah blah blah I was like well the one thing that's really important is that he's a fucking murderer that's the top layer top one and don't go underneath that because it doesn't matter yeah I mean lots of people have lots of layers sure okay okay almost done on October 25 2006 the Florida State Prison in Stark I just copied and paste this wrong Danny Rowling was executed by lethal injection at the time of his death he was 52 years old like a while so this month August marks the 28th anniversary of the murders in Gainesville and there's a 11 there's a 1120 foot long retaining wall along Southwest 34th Street and there is a tribute to the victims it was first painted in 1990 with

black red and white paint by Adam Byron Tritt so he thought it would just be this like temporary you know tribute to the victims that we you know that everyone could go and mourn at but through the years people have been regularly repainting it and touching it up and so it's still fucking there for 28 years yeah and I saw photos of it and it's just simple and sad and has their names really large at the memorials 20 year anniversary a plaque was placed below the graffiti memorial reading in memory of Sonia Larson Christina Powell Krista Hoyt Tracy Paul is Manuel and Manuel Taboda and that's the fucking Gainesville Ripper murders dude rough stuff yeah man and and you're right it is like a horror movie

because also scream has like those kind of campy elements this is like this is like the Texas Chainsaw Mask or version of scream yeah you know what I mean it's worse it's the worst of most of the stories we've done also just because it is that thing of the building fear in the city yeah and the bill where it's the no one to be a police person yeah where you're at one crime going holy shit what I just saw and then they're like LA Mary 3 and 4 I'll just do the what I know the radio call signs are from chips oh shit do it again LA Mary 3 and 4 that was their those were their radios 34 what does that mean I don't know it's like well LA is they were Los Angeles and I don't I think m3 and m4 oh sure oh god I don't know

I'm a punch and John I don't know what they what they're it just that's what the lady said every time they had a call and then they had to go you know talk to somebody on the side of the highway but my point is to be a person to be basically a homicide detective they're not it's not like there's a ton of them yeah same ones have to go to all of them yeah and in five days yeah they've seen horrors that like most people never see totally especially when you go to a town like Gainesville where you're expecting it to be like drunken parties and you know brawl like bar brawls they have to break up and domestic you know violence which is horrible but like shit that you know what to expect when you get there right and

then this kind of thing happens and you're helpless and you have you know you don't have suspects you don't have tip you have a million tips and you have to follow all of them up and none of them are leading anywhere and it's just I mean got really lucky by catching him as quickly as they did and then figure putting the fucking pieces together because he absolutely would have kept killing people well and I would just like to say bravo to the those games they'll police officers because of reaching out to other you know it's that thing where a lot of the times the stories we tell is when they will not go outside of their area and everybody is clicky where clearly this is the beginnings of that changing where

they're like we've got to do it and we've got to do that footwork to figure out is anything similar and then what like what other little crimes happen that day like those days even a fucking stolen bike could have been like you know a getaway vehicle whatever you know it's just somebody was a really good investigator because also if this is a town it's a college town and it's also a town that's listed in money magazine is like one of the nicest places to live homicide is is not common there right so yeah and I wonder if they it was like they if they called the FBI and and there was like they did they did call the FBI in and I mean that they think they always do right but what's that with they with like murder of this level

what's the it's like V I like took it out for some reason it's like they're they're database back by cap yes they they checked by cap and I think that's another way they were to like pinpoint similar murders and that sort of thing right so FBI was involved so crazy yeah I like the idea that there's FBI in every city yeah I think that's really fascinating yeah we should go knock on some doors I'm gonna find the Burbank FBI we should busk outside of the the local FBI agency do they're like what are you doing you're arrested immediately you guys are suspects in everything they're like we found that that apartment where you didn't pay rent that last month and then you just did you do that I think we may have

done that only once and it was this it was once is all it takes it right goodbye it was an apartment where it I think after we left I think the whole place got like shut down it was truly like at a slant it was really in a shitty part of San Francisco it was bad it was really bad and I think of that I remember them coming up just to tell us don't step out on the back porch it was that bad oh my god so it's not like we didn't have a time then you were in the right I also put my hand through the front window one time when I was trying to open it and I was super drunk I was like four pitchers of beer and I was home and I was like I am a little and I couldn't pull it up straight it was going up straight and

I thought oh bang no and I just it was really old obviously thin glass that had never been replaced because I just I went like once to kind of tap it my entire hand went through the window did you cut yourself I cannot remember don't you hate that it's like you were drunk and if you cut yourself your friends are like Karen's drunk and it's like no this like this would have happened even our sober because his glasses shit I mean you can say that okay fine when do you put your hand through a window unless you're fucking so drunk that you're like I'll sit here but I love in the window you on the street are you okay come on to drunk Karen can't bear do you have any beers um okay so we will we will downshift slightly

here good Jesus yeah this one is older less intense and has an it has some interesting um layers to it pre 1990 yes okay um but I liked it because lately I haven't there have been times obviously all my life where I will sit there and watch like if it's like real detective I just watch every single episode and then sometimes I'll make notes and then later go back and be like oh that's a good case yeah but lately I haven't I I think it's just I think it's the heat I think it's like cultural political stuff that's happening where I just want less of everything and so when I go to do those things the things that used to relieve my anxiety they cause more so now I've been going doing watching things

where it's like slow and easy and low key and like far away so like the Japanese TV show that we watched last night together let's talk about it fucking hooray okay you'll hear it Georgia busted out a show last night I had no idea you didn't know let's yeah we'll talk about it okay so anyway I love that people constantly suggest uh cases to us like have you covered this why haven't you covered this and it's funny because I you know there's too many questions to answer on Twitter but sometimes the answer is we did in a live show you just haven't heard it yet or it hasn't been posted yet or we can't post it for whatever reason or like like for example I read the research of Danny Rawling that Steven put

together for me when we went to Florida but when you're doing a live show and you have consist you have a 30 minute story of people going oh yeah it's like it's like not as fun for us and that's an in the not even just a live show but an actual recording too like it's really hard to do stories like what I just did like the eyeball killer or like any kind of fucking child murder you're like why don't you do this one it's like because we don't want to fucking talk about it yeah and there's no way to do it like that was the cleanest I could have done it without talking about his fucking past and getting really descriptive about the mutilation yeah we still we still have to do it so that we

walk away here not bummed out yeah as much as anybody else so which is fine this is like it's a version of how to talk about which is why we love when people like have you done this one I have so many screen grab and saved that people having suggested things like I've never fucking heard of that one before same and I am always looking for I just like the weirdness so even like especially lately I've been like has anyone ever been killed by a random cyclone I'm doing stuff like that where I'm like you're making this way too hard for yourself yeah and then this one came up the other day because there was this article in the Washington Post a bunch of people sent to us okay so I would like to thank listeners

Natalia and Amanda and the first one to have posted this article and say hey what about this have you ever heard of this theory but you're giving fucking first person credit this is right first is like come on first is the best first is first fruity troll roll got this to us first of course for a good old fruity troll roll FTR FTR yeah you know I was like can you please find because I really want to give credit this yeah this is something that came to me and uh and sometimes I rely so heavily on those suggestions and fruity troll roll was like hey you guys and I was like thank you so this is the story I get so excited Karen just want Karen just one second in me and now I'm like on the edge

of my fucking couch I just want to double my article couch check wait oh Karen has a pen in her mouth which actually disgusts me don't ever put your pen and pencils in your mouth people it's just germ city it's like licking a fucking doorknob especially in this house you've seen my cat sit butthole first on a pen Karen god damn it Georgia that thing was in my mouth also this I don't know I'm feeling feeling the silence one and we could really just have to and cut it out that's right because I like it it's like I saw I've somehow fallen and you have to cover and I'm covering with a couple glasses of wine that I've had and I'm just gonna fill the time Elvis how do you feel about it great thank

you for your troll roll for sending the story of the lady of the dunes yes but I but I don't yes okay this is a cold case from 1974 and oh I know yes do you know yes and did you read this article yeah but I was like I've heard this before like I didn't like pay attention to it okay so great so this was just in the Washington Post and which is why it's kind of come back around and in this article and sorry it was the article was written by a guy named Isaac Stanley Becker for the Washington Post and it's really a fact it's it's so fascinating and it's cool and it's about somebody but then it's also about this cold case and there's a movie involved which of course I you know I love so it was all very interesting but

it's very pop-cultury it is and kind of timely it crosses lots of interest lines or makes a lot of connections but also there's a book written by a writer named Debra Halber she wrote it in 19 in 2014 called the skeleton crew which is about online sleuth solving crimes fucking fun and so they refer to this cold case as the whole the holy grail of a case to be solved so I think that's why it comes up a lot and I also think it comes up a lot because the police in this area in Provincetown Massachusetts kind of haven't let it go they just keep they just keep bringing it back to the news like it seems like they really want to solve and camp but it's also got a really cool name that's like creepy the lady

in the dunes that's like so it's like the Talmud shoot kind of case where it's like that sounds what is that it's intriguing that's right also I just said the lady in the dunes which is what I wrote in this document it's the lady of the dunes I keep saying as if it's the lady in the water the M Night Shyamalan film that I don't think that many people saw it's the lady of the dunes okay so essentially here's how it goes on Friday July 26 1974 a 13 year old girl is walking her beagle along the race point dunes in Provincetown and her parents are there they're visiting their friend who lives in one of what they called the artist studio or it was an artist studio they were called the dune shacks so they were these

these old shacks that basically people went and lived in and kind of refurbished and it was like because it was away from everything and like everything's like like like sea salt worn and shit exactly I'm thinking of the lost boys right now like you know like that kind of when they pull into town and shit that's Santa Cruz you know oh right yes yes well that I'm thinking of the wrong city weird thing in the wrong coast but it's that feel because it's beachy but it's very remote yeah and so she's walking her dog right because her parents are back it's 1974 it's an artist shack yeah so you know what she's like bye I'm I'm gonna walk around the dunes and when she gets to this basically a patch of pine

trees her dog smells something runs off beagles look at those fucking beagles and she finds in a clearing the body of a woman is lying face down on a green beach blanket naked and the woman has been there long enough and she's in the state of decomposition that she's kind of a bluish green color so of course the little girl runs back to her parents and they call the park ranger station and head ranger Jim Hankins is the first person to arrive on the scene so he finds the body of this woman she's five six she's somewhere between the ages of 20 and 49 they can't really tell though because she has so much damage and decomposition around her face and head oh my god she has an athletic build she has long arbor hair

and it's tied back in a ponytail with a gold flecked hairband and her toenails are painted pink and her hands are they look like they're dug into the sand like she was doing a push up yeah like trying to get up yeah yeah but actually when he looks closer her hands have been removed oh my god isn't it insane that someone couldn't lay there that long without being distracted yeah they think it was between it could have between been between one to three weeks holy shit so that's kind of how remote this area is yeah and at the time what the park rangers were trying to figure out is like they knew who drove in and out of that part right because you had to go by the park ranger sure and that's the old sign up here and we

bugged on your license and they know everything yeah so they don't know who she is she didn't have a car they don't know how she got to such a remote location it's also so creepy that she's on a beach like she's not no one like tried to hide her it's like the place where she last it's almost like she lay down on this beach blanket and died but right but no yeah and because she's so basically because she's naked yeah and there's no overt sign of assault or struggle they are thinking that she could have been she was laying in this patch and it was she went into the patch of trees so that nobody could see her from the beach right because this is like in the dunes area so it's away from the water and she went

to basically not have tan lines so she's nude sunbathing maybe falls asleep in the sun and that's when some she gets hit in the head blunt force trauma that cracks her skull and that was the cause of death the angle when they do the autopsy or figure out the angles they realize the person who hit her was probably laying next to her yes because that's the angle of the blow hit her while they were laying next to her right so either she knew the person and that's why there's no struggle and she was asleep or just laying there calmly sure or she was asleep and the person came and like laid down I mean like they it's just like you can run just 17 she didn't she didn't jump up in fear in any way so yeah

she either was asleep or she knew the person right is the theory right or wasn't threatened in some way by this person right and the in the reason that they are there they don't believe there's not evidence of sexual assaults because she's yes she's nude but her her jeans are folded up underneath her head okay and so it got like laid out in that position in that scenario and that with a pillow right naked and her the towel she's laying on is not disturbed right the sand around her is not which is very strange so strange so all of that is you know that's that takes a while for them to put all that together but basically once a head ranger Jim Hankins basically sees what's honest you know what they have there

he calls police police chief Jimmy Meads at home and so when the police further investigate they find that she had dental work that they call they classify it as New York style because it costs between five and ten thousand dollars so she had what year was it again seventy four that's crazy and she had seven gold crowns holy shit so there it's the idea that this is not a you know in their minds yeah it's not a runaway she hasn't been living on the street this is a person who's been taken care of who's had a good life or at least access to good dental care yeah that means you're not probably not in a rural setting yeah or like yeah the best insurance or whatever it's just it's a my god you know it's not someone

who's like I've been drug addict living off the street and I'm trying to sleep and they're like there's this is something else some of her teeth have been removed and they don't know when and they like not they don't know if it's prior or didn't specify but I mean I think it was I think it was they believe in the act yeah her teeth were removed because later on they suspect whitey boulder boulder he they actually question him okay keep going this is okay I'm so I I only know the basics of this and I'm so fucking deep into this and sad it's very cool but also I will say this I there's I'm sure so much more online because so many people have done the internet work about this right if if you want the deep

dive to know all these details and I would highly recommend that it you know first of all this I already bought and started Deborah Halber's book the skeleton crew happening great I'm doing it then immediately it's great but also this is just this is something that you know it's one of those things that if I right now went online and then saw where people are like the whitey boulder theory is so immature or whatever where I'm always like afterwards I was going like why don't I check reddit first they know every reddit knows everything they know everything I know um so let me get back to my paragraph go ahead do it then I'm going to wait here and just talk until you find it they find two

sets of footprints leading to her body is when Jesus that's terrible that is it's what we do and then 50 yards away there's a set of tire tracks but all the park rangers all the vehicles were accounted for yeah so that doesn't like that never helps anybody it's one of the park rangers I mean could be that's reddit they're like god damn it Georgia like we already fucking we already did it in 1997 okay they think her body could have been there for up to three weeks but because they're the dunes so there's lots of insects the decomposition makes it makes it hard and she's laying in the sun yeah she's laying in a patch where right and there's lots of grass around her also the picture photo mm-hmm there's pictures

actually do you mind just clicking on that article so that I can show Georgia I'm gonna do it at some point tonight whether it's when you guys are here when you're gone and I can't sleep stop confronting me about your picture no what I'm saying is I'm a monster just show it to me now okay but but don't look but Steven don't look at it I should just not let me see even look at this I want Steven to sue us for traumatic stress at some point no it's a Washington Post article so essentially her face and head are unidentifiable because of because of the wound because the decomposition even though the head trauma because her skull was cracked and that's the was determined to be the cause of death she's also strangled

so severely that she was almost decapitated which was also a whitey boulder thing of you know garotting people I think I don't really know anything about whitey bulgar juror bulger I think every time I say it I think I should be saying yeah but whatever I don't know anything about it hit man I know it's a hitman but I didn't know like oh then you do know something about it okay hold on you got me back earlier yeah that sounded like you feel the sting of it third grader and it hurt and it really hurt a product of third grade I need a fucking write any chapter for the book about that third grade good that will be for the that's bonus content yeah oh I see it it's like a far away yep can't

really tell you can't really see but you can like yeah see that oh I see her foot I see that there's something oh poor baby the only clothes that were found there were a blue bandana and that pair of jeans that were folded under her head so the she also had a hamburger and french fries in her stomach which meant that she had been in town recently cuz she hadn't metabolized those yet so there's nowhere to get any of that stuff where she was so of course they begin searching and questioning as many people as they can and they look through missing person reports and the list of vehicles that were in the entire area at the time they're getting nothing back then when the police chief first sees the scene the first person

he thinks of is they had just had he had just prosecuted and sent to jail a serial killer named Tony Costa and for a second he thinks this could be his work and then but that would be impossible because Tony Costa had hung himself in jail two months before but it would be right it had been right before crazy bummer there was another lead that they had which I think is interesting it was an escaped female prisoner named Rory Kessinger and who was around 25 at the time and she had disappeared and so they were like maybe it's why don't we know more about this woman I know I mean you can Google it I'm sure there's plenty to know and read it's like will fucking tell you but when they went into DNA from Kessinger's

mother obviously later on when DNA was modern and developed it wasn't a match so then there's the whitey boulder theory because he removed his victims teeth so you couldn't identify them as easily and hands and hands no fingerprints but I don't know if that was his thing right he had also been seen with a woman resembling the victim around the same time that's where he was like located in shit yeah yeah he was a I think he was Boston everyone can now go watch the Johnny Depp movie about him okay and then learn I don't like Johnny Depp and I refuse to watch this movie I just don't like hit men I just don't I don't like men who hit no of any kind so the police question him but they they can't ever link him to anything

there's no evidence linking him except for the MO yeah then there's a serial killer named Haddon Clark who I've never heard of he was also a paranoid schizophrenic and he was in jail at the time he tells an inmate quote I could have given the cops her name because I killed her but not after they beat the shit out of me so he also told the other inmate that what the cops are looking for was buried in his grandfather's garden and then finally he sent a letter to his friend from jail saying he killed a woman in Cape Cod and then he did drawings of a handless woman on her stomach naked he did it and along with a map where her body was found he did it I think it's him he also led police

where he claimed to have buried two women 20 years ago but none of these clues or leads or anything lead to actual evidence who is he I want to know this Haddon Clark I've never heard of him and didn't have time to do a separate book report on him so that's a future thing for you okay great but basically with all these leads this case goes cold so the police end up over time exhuming her body twice so in 1980 basically the case goes cold for six years then in 1980 authorities exhumed her body so that they can test it for more leads they're like we have to do something then they they rebury the body but they keep the skull because they know that the there's evidence there they that

maybe they just don't know it now that's so awful I know and eventually the police chief James Meads he puts the skull on his desk and won't and leaves it there what because he says he vows to find the name of this woman that the lady of the dunes will be identified before he retires so then again they exhumed her in 2000 to now because dna dna developments and so they gather more dna that for testing that they didn't have in 1980 in 2010 the forensic reconstruction of the lady of the dunes face appears in the Boston Globe and that's when Deborah Halber the author of the skeleton crew she sees it in the globe and inspires her to write a book about all these unsolved cases that people are working on

on the internet and that's that's basically what got her the full name of the book sorry is the skeleton crew how amateur sleuths are solving America's coldest cases amazing very cool so so this is the modern layer okay that's fun and exciting and weird okay that made me go crazy okay in 2015 there's a writer named Joe Hill and he's watching an episode of haunting evidence it was the episode was from 2006 it was season one episode six he's watching it they and they bring up the lady on of the dunes they show that reconstruct the facial reconstruction of her and they show and they describe the clothes that were found with her the jeans and the blue bandana that she wore around her head the blue bandana

yes like it was her chief exactly we call it a schmata and yet that's right so basically he watches that and is fascinated by it and then soon after he goes to the 50th anniversary screening of Jaws it's his favorite movie and he takes his three sons to go see it and as they're watching it's 54 minutes and two seconds into the movie you know the part where they reopen the beach so everyone can go to the beach for the 4th of July so they have all these big crowd scenes of people going to the beach and wait is that filmed in Cape Cod yes it's filmed like right there it was it was filmed 100 miles it was filmed in two different beach locations 100 miles from where her body was found okay but basically in the

same you know state general area okay but not right there okay but nearby and when he's watching he spots this woman in the crowd I've seen this oh my god she has a blue schmata her chief on her head long auburn hair long brown hair loose white t-shirt blue jeans she looks mid-20s just like a random woman in the back athletic build probably five six yeah and when you see her the the woman in his pictures knows is a bit bigger than the one in the facial reconstruction it's creepy but it's he basically spotted it and then he talks about in this article thank you in the Boston in the Washington Post article he talks about how there's no rewind when you're at the movie right there's no pausing

at the movies so then he was just like freaking out and going could it be and he says he knows it's because he's a writer and he writes like ghost stories and creepy stories yeah so he's like of course my brain wants to fill that in and wants to make that connection but what if what if what if and so then he goes home and so wait the jaws and that scene everything was filmed like right before she got murdered or like she was found that's right so they were filming jaws in 1974 in that area if I knew more about Cape Cod I would be able to explain it but I kind of can't but it's basically the explanation is within a hundred miles yeah which I realize a lot of miles wide except they had to get people so those

right scenes they had to get a shit fucking ton of people to show up because they it had to be the thing of look at all these people here so it was hundreds and hundreds of extras small town but that's also a that's also a typical outfit for the mid seventies to right and the hair and the you know it's not that out of character for a woman to be wearing that at the beach no no no but I think it's just him seeing it's basically the story that gets looped in his mind that is very it's just like the kind of lead where you go it's possible is because if you everybody knew that Spielberg was making a movie on Cape that summer where everyone nearby knew it yeah and everybody knew that they needed people

for crowd scenes like that was they said that that was the thing that like went all around everywhere so so it wasn't like if it was like okay we live here but up in Bakersfield they're making a movie sure and we might be able to be in it let's drive up there like and maybe let's hitchhike up there because it's 1970 for and maybe I rich and I live in this town with my parents but I want to go up there and take my gold fillings up and fucking have a weekend well that makes sense and then it makes sense to whoever she is her parents had passed away and she was just like on her own because someone would have connected her with a missing person by now you know what I mean yes so that makes

me think that like there weren't a lot of people who knew her or she was escaping a fucking you know a mess and no one reported her missing because they didn't think she was they thought she just fucking skipped town now this is making me long lost sister pet podcast where a woman who had tons of family friends a brother who was a cop yeah and the exact same fucking thing happened because nobody back in the day and people kept going I thought they were gonna take care of it I thought the police were taking care right and if you have one person giving a cover story she's not here because she went to Europe yeah she finally wants to join a panel or something she told us to say fuck you and

everyone goes oh that's awful yeah and then this is what happened yeah that's a good point I mean it's just something but I think it's kind of an interesting thing of the that they shot that scene in July of 1974 yeah and her body is found at the end of July of 1974 wait okay I don't think I realize it was that close yes and they've never been able to fucking to find if this extra woman was like oh no that was me I'm alive what's up no because the casting director and I don't know if it's the casting director or Jaws or if they had it hired an extras casting director yeah could be a different person but whoever that person what would be that would have known any names or I guess I mean how would you know you don't

get names names you get release forms yeah I've been an extra and they'd give zero to none shit about you yeah but even that person died in 2009 yeah so any they they can't figure out the way to trace hundreds of people that way dude hundreds of potentially locals yeah and it's like a thing that a ton of people did but he still goes in and pulls the thing and talks about his theory and brings it to the police and they're like we've heard this theory yes you know like thank you and they're he said they're receptive but it didn't it didn't thrill them it wasn't something they hadn't heard before and no link is found but here is the quote from Joe Hill in the wash in the Washington Post article that I liked

two astonishing things happened on cake God in the summer of 1974 one is that Steven Spielberg film Jaws and the others that someone murdered this woman in the dunes outside Provincetown and got away with it anything that stirs people's memories could potentially be productive and this is still an unsolved cold case and Joe Hill now has a podcast called inside Jaws and that's how this story I think got brought to light wow is because he loves that movie so much and then the thing I will say now at the very end because in every article it's what they start with but Joe Hill is his pen name and he actually is Stephen King's son oh my god yeah and that's the lady of the dunes dude the cold case that everyone's still working

on and uh hopefully we'll get solved someday Sam Steven solve it that's banana right oh my god I know what do they get solved soon also let's just I love that movie Jaws so much the best it's truly a perfect movie yeah it is it's a perfectly perfectly done movie and the idea that it was Steven Spielberg's like basically like aside from dual it was his first big like blockbuster is crazy and that now it could be possibly tied to a fucking cold case murder of the woman that's like that's the creepiest thing I've ever that's it's so you know what it's like it's like the guy in the exorcist that was the x-ray technician that was a serial killer yes that thing I love that so much where there some things you know it's not

common at all that it's a movie but there are things where like people get captured on film because and back then it did happen sometimes it's much more common today yeah but like back then it happened but it's just also those weird back stories of like in like the Wizard of Oz you could see the legs of someone who hanged themselves from a tree or like and three men and you know that was a stork right yeah I know that what yeah and then the three men and a baby you can see a ghost in the background from a person who killed them so it's like none of it's true it's all explained away but it just like adds this level of like um like lure uh this like lore to this you know and it's just as fun at least for me obviously the way I just said that to you because

it clearly it's the third grade episode but at least for smart people like me is that what you know at least for people that read half an article like me but it's just as fun to get caught up in the in the lore yeah and then debunk the lore yeah you get to be all the people you have to be the innocent because there's no answer and then yeah and then you get to read the article that says that was actually a cardboard cutout of a little boy that they hid behind the curtain thinking get rid of this and then everybody thinks it's a ghost yeah which is just as fun as there's a ghost to me totally um because what if we're all wrong yeah and we and guess what we are cardboard cutouts are ghosts what if ghosts are cardboard cutouts what yeah every time it's just somebody

floating a cardboard cutout by you it's a ghost with a cardboard cutout paranormal cardboard cutout experiences my new series someone please make the our new series someone I'm ep that's right we just think of an idea and I'm like well did you hear about my new series someone please make of your idea yeah someone please make the fucking um like logo up like on the you know it's already done you don't have to I know I know it's Wednesday night and by tomorrow morning it's done again thank you fruity troll roll for being a part of our lives oh that was that was a wild ride I I I mean I feel like this could have also been it was a shorty for me but this could have been 12 pages long with all of the players so much to learn and grow from in these who truly who is

the next eight episodes are going to be based off of this story who is had in Clark whitey bulger whitey bulger then also bulger is that like cracked wheat that they serve bulger whitey bulger bulger like ray bulger who played the scarecrow in the wizard of good while away the hours we're going crazy sorry Elvis he's pissed all right do you have a fucking right for this week kind of listen hanging out from hanging out with you last night with cheese oh we like hung out like normal people you started out with the same tone as I don't have one forget it you just reached out to me and what if I broke your fucking finger out of love I can't handle like sincerity so much that I can give you a compliment have to break your fucking finger talk about it more talk about

last night okay so I text Karen and I was like we have like we have so much fucking work today there's another announcement coming in the next couple weeks we have so much work and it's big and like we and it's like there we have emails to answer it's more than we can just do over text like do you want to come over and then I also wrote or do you just want to come over and watch the new Golden State Killer documentary and get and I'll drink because that's I know we're not complaining obviously yeah so much oh my god to the lord and Jesus and Yahweh tripping upwards during a montage is our life right now but to the point where we can't watch the Golden State Killer the new episode Paul holds central trick because we're that busy that's just to give you yeah scope and space so

feel bad for us we don't even have children okay so I was like let's do all this work being like a boring fucking matron Lee like we have to work or just fucking come over let's hang out Vince when was that another oh Vince was at a baseball game last night again and he texts me he posted about it on Instagram and then was like why do your fans keep asking me if I have a hot dog in my pocket for you I was like I'll explain when you get home in person in real life what do you mean no no on on this photo that he posted they were like did you put a hot dog in your pocket for Georgia he's like what the fuck are you because he doesn't listen and I don't tell him and then I was like I swear it sounds sexual but it was not a sexual joke it's not even a joke I mean just talking so

much talking Karen fucking booked it to gelsons and like got a charcuterie and cheese spread that was like next level and just cut pulling shit out of the bag and oh I have a photo it'll post the photo I'll give steam in the photo yes on the new uh on Instagram and was there uh was there pair gel spread yes there was was there fig spread was there grapes fresh fucking grapes were there parmesan crisps oh those were incredible yeah we and we just sat and like we watched 20 minutes of the golden state killer documentary wonderful wonderful it's really good golden state killer next steps with paul holes is that what it is here's the thing maybe the reason we couldn't watch it we couldn't continue watching it is because they showed two early photos of paul holes

and I was like oh whoa whoa I need a I need a warning before you show me 90s paul holes so it was golden state killer main suspect on oxygen it's great I can't wait to finish it we didn't finish it great yeah because we were just talking and talking and then I and then I remembered something my friend crystalline and this is like fucking amazing girl I'm just a big fan of hers she uh she had told me the other night before about some japanese it was like it's a japanese version of um the real world the real world but everyone's so polite to each other and there's no drama and I was like let's watch it so we started watching and got four episodes in and suddenly it was like one o'clock and Vince was home in the morning and Vince was home from the game

with hot dogs in his pocket it's called uh terrace house terrace house and it's so the pace of it everything about it is so soothing and so calming and also like at first we were like wait is this boring do we want to watch it and then suddenly I'm like next one next one and it's a little like problematic in the man versus woman and like they're they're like exploring gender issues in Japan and and like you know what you're supposed to be doing with your life by 20 fucking three or whatever yes but it's really subtle and really polite and there's a lot of food shots which I appreciate it's also really awkward because they clearly have nothing to talk about because nobody is scandalous like a couple a man and a woman went for a run and they were like you know that's

the scandal yeah that they went for a run together but but still I find the most fat like the most magnetic fascinating thing that I want to watch in the world is the moment where two people who might like each other are trying to make small talk oh Jesus even what even in this show where they were not being exploitive they were not being like dirty or raunchy at all never it's just that moment where like everyone else gets up and goes well we're going to bed because we're not just going to sit here watching the two of you try to make small talk around and the producers are like leave them alone but you can't but they won't leave them alone in like a closed room like no one is known together in any like compromising situations no you have to be alone with these

really large sectional couches yeah but and also there's always this thing you know someone like someone else or when they're not talking to each other someone has to do a weird arm stretch yeah yeah weird physical stretching while making small talk and work like to fill silence or show someone a photo on their phone like really close to their face yeah so they have you have to lean in yeah it's awkward as I love it it that kind of shit I'm like well does the baseball player like the yeah the model the model or the other girl right but it was really fun watching with you you got to see the side of me that screams at the tv you laugh through half of it a half the shit I said which I appreciate other stuff I was like oh stupid no there was we were well I have to say sorry

but on both of those shows we were riffing oh but see if we'd recorded it it wouldn't have been it wouldn't have worked we were crying laughing at some points it was really fucking funny but also was just like we rarely get to just have fun and snacks have fun and that was part of it is last night we it was the celebration of um the book announced it was like the celebration of like we have actually hit a milestone of yeah done with me finally I don't tell people about it yeah and so it was it was really fun thank you for making that you're fine thanks for coming um mine is the show the tunnel the channel no there's I was gonna do this but I mean that it that was mine too it was no I found it so relaxing no you get you get to have it no it's okay if it's not I mean

whatever and now we're in a fight now we're in seventh grade I was just gonna say mine that had been written before it's fine I had nothing so it's just these two really good shows okay great one of them is on I think my DVR is recording it right now so let's fucking wrap this up it's the second season of Jessica Biel executive producing The Sinner and I tell you when I tell you so my friend Molly um who's east coast and so she watches things first and then lets me know if I should watch them which is one of the greatest if you can set that up in your life don't waste your time it's the best your east coast friend tell you and here's the we all know that when you have first season like the first season The Sinner where I couldn't stop watching it and Jessica Biel was so

good in it and she was nominated for an Emmy and god bless so exciting but now she's the EP and I love that they just like it's the same show with the same detective but Jessica Biel it's like a new story it's a new story and it's so first of all hellray for Bill Pullman he's had a 40 year career he's so great bless his heart so great to watch so real to watch but that was Elvis sneezing about this story because I was like they can't do what they did last time what they did last time was so special and different and creepy and had me so uncomfortable from the second it starts I don't know if it's the directing whatever they're doing it's so great so Carrie Coons is there whatever it's on the show it's gonna be weird and fucking creepy and like and like slow moving in a beautiful

way and then she's there and you're like oh is this a cult thing yes and I love Carrie Coons so she's so good when she shows up it's gonna get fun and again a little creepy little kid is always you have to take all my money a creepy little kid who looks younger than he is he's 13 but he looks like an eight year old yes and it's like oh then you're okay whatever yeah it's great it's just great so please watch the center and if you haven't seen season one watch season one and then watch season two but also the tunnel which is this British show they just did the third and final season and it has a French actress named Clementine Posey I believe I hope that's her first name great name not and then a British actor who I love so much named Steven

Steven Steven Ray Morris Steven will you please find Steven Calhane I think I mean he's gonna crack me but anyway there's three seasons they're all great each one better than the last it's just real good is on channel it was on public TV here it's Clements Posey and Steven Delaney so close so close so close that's like the time that I called Dan White the man who murdered Harvey Milk in San Francisco I called him Dan Brown who is the author of the Da Vinci code listen Jack White and Jack Black I will never get those two fuckers straight I just can't I will I'm too dyslexic color I'm yeah all right great that's it um you guys will see you in yoga class this week I mean right thank you guys for listening and fucking supporting us and being so fucking cool

and on our side and we can't wait for you to read this book because you know yeah we're we're scared excited uh thanks for thanks I thought I'd add I'm done stay sexy don't get murdered goodbye Elvis you want a cookie oh my cookie good boy