My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 134 - Live at the Connor Palace in Cleveland

Episode Date: August 16, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover Ed Edwards and the Kirtland cult killings.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hey, what's up Cleveland? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Spotlight. It's the brightest spotlight in the world. We truly can't see anyone but the people with their teeth against the stage. Are you guys, sorry, I'm going to talk to the people that work here. I think we can get like two more rows here in the front, don't you? At least. Layered up a little bit. Come on, punk rock.

Don't piss us off. We're a punk rock podcast. Yeah. Right? Oh my god, we're finally in Cleveland. Hey. This was, this was not the city Georgia was talking about. It was not. Why did I ever say that there was a state I think it was that I didn't want to go to? We were young. We were young podcasters. We were real stupid. We thought. We didn't think anyone was listening. And we're just chit and chatting away. We went to, we had been to like, we had done like a 300 room place before we're like, why would anyone come? I'm not going to this place. And it's like, yes, you are. Yeah. Shut up. Stephen. Yes. Let's hear it. He's not here. He's not here. But yes, exactly. There he is. See that up there? Look at Stephen's cookie face. Explain it. Explain this to,

it's Stephen. Well, it's, it's perfectly Stephen. Georgia, we looked at it. I said, it has his grabbing eyes. Let him see. Look at those. Stephen's eyes are always like, do you need anything? And Georgia sent him a picture of it and he responded, I wish my lips were that full. That's our Steve. That's our Stevie. Thank you, Danielle at MK Sweets. She made an incredible box of like all those cookies and one of them. I've never seen this before. It was like a pink cute little like beauty shop thing and it said fingers and faces. Fuckin' fingers and faces. Love it. We love a good inside joke. She isn't some phony cookie making pseudo listener. She knows the deep live show references like fingers and faces.

Yeah. Speaking of the ones you just painted. Oh my God. I literally did this two minutes ago and then I was like, we are standing outside of the door and I go, Georgia, can you fluff, fluff my hair up for me? I can't get in there right now with my fingers and my faces. Can't do it. I thought you were really going to bust out with something right there. That felt good. Do you want to sing, um, Little Mermaid again? No. Okay. I do want to tell you guys that I forgot my meds on this trip. It's not my fault. Full transparency. Sharing always. One, have birth control. We have no boundaries. I really did that. Here's what happened. I have like so good at packing and I put all my stuff in my little thing and that I hang up and then

it's like everything is there. And then, uh, the electricity went out of my apartment before we like right as we were leaving the house. We paid the bill. It's fine. That's Elvis unplugging something. I guess you can't go because he loves you so much, much more than Steven. And as I was leaving and then Vince is like, Vince is Mr. Like we have to leave right now for the airport. Sure. In a good way because I'm like, we can get there 20 minutes before. So the thing fell. Everything fell out of it. I picked it all up in the dark. Didn't pick up my pill. Now just birth or all pills. Oh, everyone. Every pill. Honey. No, no, no, it's fine. So I call like fucking shout out to CVS who are fucking on it. I mean, promo code murder.

Oh, that's right. At live shows. Now we're doing a ads too. It's, um, there, these are high integration ads where we totally pretend like we're talking about something. Yeah. And this, none of this happened because I can't live without my well butron. Let's get that fucking. Oh my God. That's the, that's the shit right there. And we start naming Zell Jans or whatever. I was just fucking, that's my beach house. That's my mountain house. That's my beach and mountain house. I can live without well butron, but you can't fucking live without effects or what's effects or for anxiety. And it does this thing that everyone who's not taking it for a day knows. It gives you this thing that they call the zaps. Oh,

so you just like you, you just, your brain kind of like get to like a little catch up, catch. It's fucking creepy. Okay. This is going to be a separate, a separate topic. Okay. And this is, uh, just because, uh, if you have an effects or pill, I would love to just look at it for one second. I just want to see what color it is. Not now after we'll talk about it, but just, I don't know, palm me an effects or the zaps. No, you're asking for me. I'm jokingly asking for you without involving you. So the cops don't arrest us. Well, I did, I called CVS and I was like, hi, I did this thing and like in a half an hour, they gave me like two pills for today and tomorrow. Oh, they covered you fucking CVS, but then your family lives in a pharmacy. I was like, I can

just ask, I could have asked the crowd for it. But I don't want to take your pills. Someone rolls up, look, one of those little black suitcases. I'm actually in effects or rep. You're doing great business for our company. However, if in nine months from now I'm pregnant, this is the reason. Oh my God. That child would immediately become a nun. You know how like your pain, you always do the opposite thing that your parents want you to do. I ain't calling you a slut. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I am. Put on you slut. All right. I meant, I was trying to think opposite of murder. Oh, they get it. Same dip. It's all sins or yeah.

An EMT. Yes. Or a murderer. Right. I guess. This is a gorgeous rug. I wish you could, you guys can see it, right? That's why you paid top dollar for those seats up there. We'll be selling replications at the merch table after the show. Oh, little mouse pads that are just this rug. It really is lovely. Oh, by the by, this is my favorite murder. A true crime comedy rug podcast. That's Karen Kilgara. And that's Georgia Hardstar. And we're all here to talk about tragedy within a gazebo of comedy. Let's say it that way.

The tragedy is not funny, but we have a great time in this gazebo around it. Yeah. Doesn't have to be a sad gazebo or a happy gazebo. We're just there. We contain multitudes. Yeah. And so does the gazebo. And really bottom line is if you don't like it, get the fuck out. People just start storming at the aisle. Everyone who works here quits and just fucking leaves. No, no, no, no. We need you. We need you. No. Let's see. It's real fucking cold here. Just so I don't know. I'm sure you know, but you guys know now, right? I feel when we left LA it was 82. Oh my God, they turned on us. Listen, we don't use aerosol. We're not responsible for

the. We didn't create this particular hole in the ozone. Sorry. I feel like that the reason they're giving us a spotlight is to recreate how it is in LA. It's a balmy 78 up here right now. It really is. We don't know how I, well, I don't know how to dress in cold. I don't understand when someone's like, it's 20 whatever. I'm like, well, I don't know what that means. I'm gonna wear this cute trench coat. I'm just gonna just keep on keeping on with what I got going. That's all I got. And we, it was again, that thing where we step out of the body of the airplane and that little gap between the airplane and the walkway. It's like, oh, Alaska. It was snowball time. I was like, this is super uncool. Yeah. Um, but what we're doing it, we did it and cute coats bar to bar to

coat to do it. No, we love it. So I mean, yeah, if there's any place to come and discuss tragic murders, Cleveland's got it going on. You guys, I think Ohio as a whole, like we could just do Ohio over and over this state drive. It doesn't always happen because sometimes, you know, there's a lot of things that the qualifiers for a live show story that you need, you know, a couple things going on, a couple elements in it, you know, not just a straightforward, horrible thing that happened and, uh, man, just Ohio keeps on giving it just like hand over fist. How about this? Do you like clowns? What about rivers catching on fire? What about fuck? That's right. What about clowns catching rivers on fire? Could you imagine? What about a balloon drop that kills people? That's real. Fuck.

Fuck. Superman. He saves people. What about Superman? But you guys made him up anyway. In the airport, there's, as you know, in your beautiful airport, there's a Superman station where there, where Superman is, hold, he's, he's holding really still. And then there's a story of Superman being broadcast, allowed to everybody waiting for their bag, which is nice. They should do that in every city. Not with Superman. No, no, no, that would be a ripoff. Yeah. What would LA do? But there was a little like probably two year old boy that was so stoked that Superman was in the airport. But I thought he was saying souvenirs. And I was like, that is the cutest thing in the world that he wants to buy souvenirs. Meanwhile, Superman was five feet away from me, just, just

eight feet tall and like a man's voice blasting like Superman was invented in one table. And I'm like, oh, he said souvenirs. It's a toddler that loves keepsakes. Key chains. He's got a collection of key chains. He's got little license plates for his bicycle. But he kept screaming Superman. And his dad would take, take him away from it, put him down and the kid would fuck and rip back over to Superman. And he was yelling it in a way that like made me kind of sad because I can make anything sad. Especially when you don't have your cell jams. Exactly. Whatever it is. Where it was just like he was screaming Superman and like not understanding why the rest of us who are like sad and old and like understand what life is, like he was letting everyone know. And why isn't

anyone like Superman, you guys? He's like, why are you facing that fucking luggage rotunda that just keeps spinning, staring at it like moths to a flame. Superman is right fucking there. Right. So tragic to be a child. Oh, God, so stupid, right? You just don't know anything. Fucking stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Should have. Do you wait a second? Is this a new 70s dress from the last one? This is not the last 70s dress I had that has cat hair on it. It's the other 70s. It's new here on it. Oh shit, look at that. What happened? I mean, it's just everywhere. I was excited about it. Oh, I mean the cat hair. Oh, no, this is I've had this before, but this is sticking to my rule of only wearing

comfortable 70s and 80s dresses from now on. Walk it down. Walk it down the rug. Thank you. Look at her. Oh, yeah. Oh, and let's start up here. Cut my own bangs. Yeah, girl. Got to do it when you're out of your pills and you got nothing to do. Yeah. Teeny tiny scissors. That's right. Let's talk about your, you have a revelation or an exclamation. Um, yep, couple. When we, I bought a new dress, uh, from, of course, the fashion retailer target and right, I'm always like, 29, 99. Hell yes. Then I'm surprised when you, uh, it says you can wash it, but you can't wash it. You can't. So I, on the, where were we last? Uh, the, uh, New Orleans. Nolans. Yeah. Uh, the first night I went out in that dress having had washed it, then afterwards

people are so kind to post pictures of my middle aged ass on stage and it looked like I had thrown on a child's romper and been like, watch this. This will be fucking hilarious. And then gone out on stage mortified. So of course I do my backup outfit, which is, I keep ending up in my backup outfits. You can't call them that anymore. I can't. This is the front up outfit. I just want to, I, like many of you just want to wear pajamas in public. So, oh, we had a new idea of a come as you listen. Yes. The show thing. Right. Just come the way you listen. Do you, do you work out when you listen to podcasts? Do you, are you a, a doctor? Come in your scrubs. Are you a clinic, uh, helper? Bring us clinic. Where you're, bring us clinic in

your white clinic, fake doctors outfit. You fake clinic. That's how I, that's how you find out I'm Lancome hardcore, hardcore Lancome till I die. Product placement, product placement, product placement. Just a dollar bills falling from the ceiling. Also, this is your farewell tour of this outfit. You said that's right. I'm going to burn this when I get home. I also just can't find the time to make myself look nice. So I overcompensate with the hair and then I see what happens. I dig it. It's fun. The hair is great. It's fun. I mean, you think like you're, you're at a historic theater, uh, for the huge show with a ton of people. A lot of light. Wear your sweats. Wear your sweats. Why even have this opportunity and power if you can't abuse it terribly?

Well, if you show that you care, then they won't respect you. That's exactly right. That's when they start using you. Well, like how they say, I've heard like on improv, it's like, don't dress cute because they don't be mad at you. So they won't laugh at your shit. Well, it's like, well, I just want to dress cute all the time. Yeah, or be good at improv. There's always that. Yeah. Sorry, one girl on the team that we had to put on. You can't, you can't dress like you like yourself. Exactly. Fuck you. Fuck you and your rules. Wait, what do we know? What's this about now? There's an improv team in the center of this audience. Like they're finally saying what I've always wanted to say. Um, here you sit down. Should we sit down? Yeah.

Thank you. Oh, thank you. I like a mid height kind of high low chair. It'll be interesting. Usually the seats up here and there's a lot of danger for me and getting into it. Boom. Done and done. Does anyone have a phone book? Do they still make phone books or phone books? They make them only for you to throw them away. Oh good. I just want to, yeah, this is going to go to the hometown murder person. I'm sorry we're giving your cookies away, but we can't eat all of them. Okay, let's get real. Let's get reality. Okay. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping and prepping handled, Hello Fresh has you covered. Hello Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can

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first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder 20 with code murder 20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder 20 and use code murder 20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Arisha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series Whitney Houston Destiny of a diva will tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around

her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. Am I first or you first? It's me. Okay. And I'm excited because we don't always have control. Yes. Over our own images. But tonight tonight. Tonight we have control. We can go back and forth in our image. The last I believe it was Nashville was not the one we were like. And so they got married. And there's a picture of them as a couple. And then it was like two, three, four, five, six. It made for great comedy just to be like, it's still up there. It's still up there. Yeah, photo assault. But this time that's not happening unless we do it to ourselves, which we absolutely will.

Okay. Guys, there's again, we said it so many people to choose from so many, so many classics. But when I looked up this story, I couldn't not do it. And I don't know if you know it. But it's the unbelievable story of serial killer Ed Edwards. Oh my God. Do you know that? Of course, dude. There he is now. Oh, no. Ed Edwards, Edward Edwards, not his real name, if you can believe that. Okay, so today in looking this up, Steven, Steven sends us all of our links. He does a lot of like round Steven does a lot of research for us, which is great. But then I stumbled there's a show and a lot of you probably have heard of it or watched it, but I never have because I'm almost 50. It's on YouTube and it's called brain scratch. Have you watched it? Guys. Okay.

It's so good. It's a guy. Okay, this is these are the guys. It's a guy named John Lorden. And he basically takes you through these cases. Like he started this one by reading the Wikipedia page, which I'm like, that's my thing. But he basically is like pulls you through all the research, all that like amazing stuff. Or I'm like, Oh, these are the people that hate our show. We're like, Oh, they care about facts and dates. But it's you have to watch it because it's not just this case. He's got shows about all the all the true crime stories that interest you and they're really cool. So and because of that show, I had a nervous breakdown around 2pm because this story changed quite violently near the middle end. So let me just we'll just walk you through

it. So did you think like, I got this story, everything's fine. It's straightforward as a serial killer. Here we go. Yes. And then found out some secret shit about him. I think I know one of the secret things and I'm excited. I'm excited. Oh, no, our first fight. It's blank. It's blank. No, no, no. There's a nine on it. Page nine. I did you a favor. Okay. Yeah, we didn't need that anyway. Should we raffle this off? Guys, come on. Also, there's just so you know, there's not eight pages. Okay, look at page eight is that was a mistake. Okay. Edward Edwards, who was born Charles Murray, one of his name, one of his born Charles Charles Murray Murray. Don't worry, Edward Edwards is not Edward Edwards born Bill Murray. What? I knew that guy was suspicious

when he kept dropping in on everyone's wedding. Okay. He was born in Akron. That's right, Akron. On June 14, 1933, he was illegitimate. And this is fucking horrible and really heavy. When he was around five, he witnessed his mother's suicide. Oh, horrifying. So a couple years later, he goes there. They send him to an orphanage in Parma. I'm too for due with these city pronouncements. I can't. I'm so stoked. I love it. It's good. Fuck, we didn't ask anybody about that. It's no, no. Yes. Yes. With a C? No, that's not right. Well, hold on. I just need the people out there to know. All of a sudden. Willowith. That's not the one we need to know. But just so you know,

everyone in the front just started naming cities they think we can't pronounce. Just whatever came to mind. Kyahoga. What is it? Kyahoga. Kyahoga. It's not spelled like that. Anyone. Wait, the Kyahoga River. Oh, I know that one. That's not the same as the city you're talking about. I might have made up a word. No, you didn't. That city's in mind too. We're going to pick one person. You're not helping. You said you just said Kyahoga was the city we're trying to talk about. That's fucking insanity. I bet you're not even from here. Oh, she's giving me the eye. No, she's crying. Oh. Oh, sorry. Don't my glasses on. I thought you wanted to fight me. Sorry. When the time comes, I'm going to ask you what the city name is.

Stop crying so that you don't, like you're, let the swelling go down. It's later on. It's around page five. Okay. Okay. So he gets sent to this orphanage later on in life. He claims that the nuns there beat him physically and emotionally abused him, which is very easy to believe. But then he blames his later life of criminal insanity on that. We call bullshit always on that. So no, Ed. So he, he also claimed that when a nun asked him when he was little, what he wanted to be when he grew up, he said, quote, sister, I'm going to be a crook and I'm going to be a good one. So in 1948, when he was 15, he was sent to a reform, a reform school in Pennsylvania. And two years later, I think you pronounced that right. No. I don't think so. Two years later,

he returned to Akron and he started committing burglaries. Then he, he basically got, he got to switch out. He was in juvenile detention. They said, if you join the Marines, you can leave here. And he was like, sounds great. Almost immediately goes a wall from camp Lejeune in North Carolina. Just people from everywhere in Cleveland. How about Paris, France? Really? I've heard of Paris, France. Okay. You guys are fun. So in April of 1952, um, oh shit, it's on page one. Okay. Show her. You guys are going to say, say that city. Chillicothe.

Oh. Nothing like Coyahoga. Chillicothe. Chillicothe. You guys thought that that was the one we could pronounce? Nobody fucking yelled that? Oh, you did. Okay. I'm sorry. She did. Stop talking to them. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Even though I just had a full conversation with her. Okay. But she raised her hand. That's true. Yes. We need a system in place. Okay. So, uh, the reason he went to chillicothe is if I've always known it, uh, for two years was because he was impersonating a Marine and, um, he stole a car and went across state lines. So he ends up getting dishonorably discharged from the Marines. Um, according to him, because later on you'll see he wrote an autobiography. So

he, yes, my least favorite thing. Um, he described himself as being ruggedly handsome and equally cunning, which doesn't make sense. Was he either? So he's, he's saying he's ruggedly cunning. Oh, yeah. He's cunning like a mountain. Or is he equally handsome? He was equally handsome to a rugged thing. Cunning. Cunning. He claimed to have spent his 20s hitchhiking, forging checks, and having sex all across the country. Me too. Oh my God. In your 20s, when you, when you forged that first check and you're like, I myself finally, I know who I am. Okay. Let's take a look. You may have seen this guy before. Wonderful. Oh, I think that, which goes that way. Yeah. Oh, right up those nostrils. Was he in sublime? Now that I look at it this way, fake beauty mark. They used to always

do that in the sixties. Probably his shots started as a zit and they just painted it black with mascara. He wishes he had full lips too. He's starting a little Steven mustache, but or maybe he just has large upper lips surface. Anyway, remember that face. So it's gonna come up later. Picture it right now wearing glasses. Okay, then we're gonna stop talking about it. Yeah. Okay. So he claims that after being held on burglary charges and after in 1955, he broke out of prison by pushing past a guard. Just being rude. Watch it. Well, excuse me. That's how lots of prisons work. It was a honor based into his honor system prison. It's like you promised you promised to

stay here and not push. Yeah. So then he fled across the country holding up gas stations for money as he went and he said that during that time he never wore a mask because he wanted to be famous. You're right. He would have been a YouTuber today, I bet. He would have been a YouTuber. So after a series of armed robberies in 1956, he was arrested in Montana and he was sentenced to the penitentiary in Dear Lodge. Okay, so he's released from there. Thanks. Clear the cookie area. Thank you. He was released from there in July of 1959. But then he was taken to Portland to stand trial for two armed robberies in 1956. So they were like, oh, that's the guy from our thing. Bring him over there. He gets there. He's sentenced to five years probation. But while he's there,

oh no, sorry, this is a different time. Wait, while he's there or another time, this guy literally did so many fucking crimes. The idea that he just kept getting paroled and getting out really is a reflection of the time and the color of his fucking skin. I'll tell you that because it's so nuts. It's just like, oh, you held up another gas station. You know what? We're going to go ahead and give you a slap on the wrist. Get out of here, you nut. So he used to trial in Portland for two armed robberies in 1956. Then he broke out of jail in 1960 in Portland where he, this could be a serious Wikipedia mistake I made, but it says here, where he'd been arrested for pulling a false fire alarm.

It was a big deal back then. I mean, it wasn't like a fucking prank that nerds did. No, that was like, you know why? Because back then you couldn't just reset a fire alarm once you pulled it. It was broken forever. It's not true. Okay. But while they had him there for the false fire alarm, he was questioned in connection with the double murder of a young couple from Portland named Beverly Allen and Larry Payton, but no charges were filed. They could only question him or they only question him. So then, so he's broken out of jail in Portland. They're looking for him. He's traced to Colorado where he, oh, just you don't seem like you mean it. So I don't know how to feel there. They're here now.

So they're like, I'm okay childhood, but I'm happy to be here now. I'm happy to be here. The air's a little thick for me. Okay. Here's how they traced him to Colorado. He had been cashing checks from the Portland bowling club, which he was a member of in Portland. They had their own checks. Yeah. I guess he was the treasurer of the Portland bowling club or friends with the treasurer. And apparently they had tens of thousands of dollars. What are they doing? No, I'm just kidding. I was like, I gotta join a bowling league. A bowling league. I'm gonna join a boiling league. Think how funny that would have been if I could have said it correctly. Or if you would just start a boiling league where you make hard boiled eggs and spaghetti.

Mm-hmm. I could join that. Top ramen. Easy. Okay. Just can someone write down the boiling league for a TV pitch that we're going to do for Food Network? No, yeah, Steven will get it. You don't have to worry about it. Okay. So because of all this, and they can't find him, the bowling league and all that shit, in November of 1961, the FBI places him on the 10 most wanted list, which is what he wanted. It's all about crossing state lines when he was confined. After a robbery conviction, they've got him on all this stuff. So he's captured two months later in Atlanta with his wife. Now he's a wife all of a sudden. How did he find time to date with all the robberies and pushing of prison guards that he'd been doing? Still, there was time for love.

And Ed Edwards made it. You think he met her on the bowling league? He was like, that throw is hot. I'm going to buy her a corn dog and see where this thing goes. You've, uh, yeah. You know, I do love bowling, though. You know, I love corn dogs. Oh, hello. I love bowling too. Why are we podcasting right now? We could be bowling. There's got to be a bowling league. We can join around here. Okay. Oh my God. Everybody's got something to yell about tonight. I could love that there's a bowling league. My God, our whole bowling league came tonight. The true crime loving bowling league in Cleveland. Hell yes. Okay. So they sent him when they

finally capture him when he's on the 10 most wanted list. They sent him to Leavenworth for 16 years. He's paroled five years later, of course. They just don't want him to stay. So this is where Ed the con man takes over. So he gets out of Leavenworth and he claims that a benevolent guard that he met in Leavenworth. I didn't, that's a cut and paste word. I would never use it. But a kindly guard had helped him reform while he was in jail. And now he wrote a book on his life of being a lifelong criminal called the metamorphosis of a criminal colon, the true life story of Ed Edwards, fake name. True life story of a fake name. So that he releases that in 1972. And he base and he starts, he goes on the circuit and becomes an inspirational speaker.

Yes. Hold the phone. Oh, that's the fam. Oh, he has children. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He ends up him. That's him up there. Yeah. He gained some weight. Let's not be critical. That's it happens when you settle down. Look, she has my bangs a little girl. Maybe she cut those herself too. She cut those herself after a couple white wine. You know me. You know it. They, they end up having five kids. Hopefully all together. Yeah. And this is him as a family man. All right. Oh, and then we're gonna, and then we're just going to show you this is this was a, it's a recording of his inspirational speech called, it says there, Ed Edwards says, build a fire in the person, not under them. Build a fire in the person, not under them.

I feel like that was the first draft and he should have kept going with that. A lot of times when you're trying to pick a title, it's good to like spitball three, four, 10 ideas. Yeah. Also that smile is so creepy. Anyone who looks that happy is a fucking monster. Yes. It looks like he, like he takes the bottom half of his face off at night. It's a weird thought. Karen, that's a weird thought. It's like all he knows about smiling as you just have to scrunch your entire face into the middle. Yes. You know, move this part down, keep these very still. Yeah. We did it. We did. We really have. So everybody gets real inspired by his inspirational, motivational speaking. And he ends up going on

two television shows in 1972. The, to tell the truth program, which I'm sure you loved back then, and a show called, what's my line? He was, this is to tell the truth where, so a panel would have to figure out if you were lying about your life story. I'm a serial killer. They a liar. Oh my God. Okay. I'm sorry, but I feel like that to tell the truth, font needs to come back. And then also those, whatever those robot things are back there. They're like penis robots. Just, what are they? Penis robots. I didn't want to say it the first time. She said penis robots. Out loud to my face. I just like shows, things looked like this when I was very small. So when I see it again, it just like makes you happy. It does a little bit, but then it also is like, oh,

also I'm alone. Right. Like someone put me in a room alone. It takes you back to a time when you loved souvenirs. Right. God, I remember when I loved souvenirs. All right. So he's basically a kind of a pseudo celebrity. Everybody loves the idea that a man who was a lifelong criminal went into prison and a benevolent prison guard helped him see, you know, his way to living the life of lighting fires inside of people. Very inspired by that. Is that really where how the story ended it'd be a beautiful story. You know, and then he lit several people on fire. Oh, not that. Just be like legitimately if you were reformed. Oh, yeah. It would be a great story. The fire part would be fun too. It's, it's the idea that I feel like a lot of times when we talk about

things like this, when you're like, how did this person get away with this for so long? Yeah. It's because other people want it to be true. So then when it starts to flake away of this is in no way true. You're like, no, but it is true. He what he what he lit a fire inside me. So the fame dries up, of course, as it always does. And I hope you remember that. This is all we're all on a clock here. So he goes back to the skill that he learned in prison, which is carpentry. I mean, I'm a handyman. He buys a house in 1974. He buys a house in Doyleston and Ohio. And everyone hates it. No one fucking cheer or I'm saying it wrong. Doyleston sucks. Doylestown. There's no W in this. Oh, it feels good not to be the one for fucking ones. Oh my God. Where's the

W? I mean, silent. It's a silent invisible W. Thank you. Finally, someone being helpful. Okay, in Doylestown, he builds a house for his or he remodels house for himself and his wife and five kids. And then around town, he becomes this family man. And of course, he does the thing that all great psychopaths do. He begins to try to ingratiate himself with the police. So he hangs out, although he's a big talker, not a not a big drinker, but he hangs out in bars, listens, gets people to talk to him, and then basically becomes a snitch. So he starts telling the police about local crimes that he's heard about. And and he hangs out with the police. They hang they hang out at their house. Basically, he they come home one night, and their house is burning

down. And the police and the fire department find evidence of arson. And so Edward tells his family that some a criminal he informed on found out that he was the snitch. And so that now we have to go on the run. And so he starts moving his family to a new state like every six months or so. Because it turns out that Ed Edwards is going to shock you. He was not reformed in Leavenworth. Yeah, his record was bullshit, even though the cover was beautiful. So real quick, we're going to skip ahead to 1980 to this cold case. So in the August of 1980, in Jefferson County, Wisconsin, a young couple. Oh, sorry, my cab's here. I have to go. Why? That's the Jefferson County birdcaller. And he's here tonight. Or she.

Women can whistle too, Karen. Okay. So August of 1980, a young couple named Tim Hack and Kelly Drew, they go to a wedding reception at a place called the Concord House, which is this big place where they held there was like two wedding receptions being held there that night. They're both 19 years old. They were high school sweethearts. They left the party together, the reception together, and they were never seen again. The next day, Tim's dad goes to the Concord House, finds Tim's car still in the parking lot. Then five days later, they start finding pieces of Kelly Drew's clothing like out in the country. Well, the whole thing's out in the country, but around. So then the police have to go in and interview everybody that was at the Concord

House that night, all the guests from both weddings. And they have they end up with no leads. There's no clues. And the case goes cold. Two months later, their bodies were found. Tim Hack had been stabbed to death. Kelly Drew had been strangled. And that's when this case became known in Wisconsin as the sweetheart murders. And it was called for decades. So almost 29 years later, this is in 2009, the state of Wisconsin gets a cold case grant, and they get to reopen five cold cases. And the sweetheart murders are one of them. So what they do is they go in, they get Kelly's clothing, and they find DNA on it, and they send it to the lab to get tested to see if they can match it. And they they do find DNA from Seaman on her pants.

And so once they know that they might be able to match it, they the police make this announcement to the public if anybody has any information about these two young people's murders, anybody if that was at the Concord House that night, any anything we want to hear from you. Well, at the same time, a 48 year old mother of two named April Bellasio had been reading, reading up on cold cases. She read this article. And when she sees the picture of the Concord House, she stops cold. Because she remembers when her family lived in Jefferson County. And she remembered that her father had been the handyman at the Concord House. And she remembered that two days after the cut, that's right, I'm building up to it slowly. Two days after the couple disappeared,

her father woke the family up in the middle of the night, put them all in a car and moved to Pennsylvania. Her father was Ed Edwards. That's right. She had my bangs. She had her that's right. I think that was the mom. That was the mom. This is the daughter. So that's one of those babies. Yeah, the daughter had my back. Oh, they didn't. I thought you meant the mom. I don't know the daughter. Okay, forget it. I was looking at that mom's calic going like, oh, take me forever to blow the dry that out, make that work. Oh, my God. Okay, anyway, this is very exciting. So here's how here's went down. And she basically is this is like, I feel like it's kind of what we're all in it for where you read an article and suddenly you

get cold chills. And you're like, I know that face. I'm the witness that you need or whatever. Well, did you see some girl did it today about the bachelor? What? Did you see the bachelor? Some fucking girl. There's like a missing photo in a fucking humble humble times of like, look at all these missing people and some girl like some fucking girl is in a true climb. Clearly looking at it like that girl's looking tested on the bathroom right now. She's on the bachelor. It's really her. Holy shit. Yeah. She told her mom she was going to work at a marijuana farm instead of telling her she was going to be on the bachelor because her mom would be too ashamed. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm thinking that maybe the bachelor is a front for a marijuana farm.

They all work. That would explain a lot of stuff on that show. I would. What if the the rose that the guy gives is just paint red, red painted pot? Yeah. That's how they traffic the stuff out of there. Well, you take this across state lines and be my bride. That's right. Okay. Off topic. Anyhow, we're back. So a couple years after they moved to Pennsylvania in 1982, she then remembers that one night, her mom was had been in the hospital for an injury. Her dad took all the kids camping and spent the night when they went home the next day. Their house had been burned down. Because also who the fuck wants. Hey kids, your mom's in the hospital really sick. Well,

let's go camping. The woods. This had been the third time that their house had been burned down. Now, it supported this theory that or this storyline that he was giving his family of bad guys are after us and they're trying to get me because I was a snitch. Well, to April's surprise, her three brothers went to the police and said, we're the ones that burn the house down because our dad made us do it. So in 1982 at Edwards was arrested for arson and he was sentenced to two years in prison in Pennsylvania. I guess when you burn your own house down, they don't care that much. It's your fucking house. Don't light stuff on fire, but whatever you did it. He got out in 1987 and then now he decides he's going to be the family man. He's going to rededicate himself to

this family. So he comes back and one of the sons went off to college, but he still has the four kids at home. Plus a boy named Danny Glockner who had is one of his son's friends. They all went to high school. Danny came from a really troubled family here in Cleveland. More troubled than your dad. He thought he was going to the perfect family. So he starts hanging out. He becomes like a member of the family and he stays with them for years actually. Ed tried to adopt him and the judge was like, no, he's 19. But the judge did allow Danny to change his name from Danny Glockner to Danny boy Edwards. Yeah. So I don't like it either. So then Danny joined after high school. Ed encouraged Danny to join the military. And so he hurt his ankle. Have this fucking story

go. He hurt his ankle and he was going to get discharged. And so he was telling Ed about that problem. And Ed was like, he basically was like, that's it's such a disgrace if you get discharged from the army, whatever. So that guy was dishonorably discharged. So he would know. So Danny ends up going AWOL two days before he was supposed to be medically discharged from the army. And he remains missing for a year. And apparently Ed Edwards was obsessed with the fact that he was missing. And he told the police he was going to do everything he could to try to find Danny. A year later, hunters find a shallow grave in the woods behind the cemetery in a city. It's Danny boy Edwards. And he'd been shot to death in the back of the head. Oh my God. So Ed

Edwards is distraught. He's going crazy about it at Danny's funeral. He is asking people, what do you think happened to Danny? Very appropriate. So that case ends up going cold. The police can't find any leads about that. So years pass. And all five of the Edwards kids are sitting, they're all grown up now. April has her own last name. They're all talking about Danny's murder and what they think could have happened. And one of the older kids brings up the fact, you know, mom in 1982, mom was in the hospital. But you remember why she was in the hospital? Dad stabbed her. So they didn't not all the kids knew this. So they all start like sharing this information. Apparently, oh man, when kids when fucking siblings get high together,

shit comes out. Yeah, that's right. Right. It's like, it takes like one Thanksgiving party where everyone has a little too much Bailey's and it's like, well, guess what? That didn't happen that way. Yeah. You don't remember it. Oh, you think? And Carol's so great. Well, this is even more horrifying. Apparently, at Edwards came home one day, and he want there was a bag of potato chips he wanted to eat. And he found it half eaten, because there's fucking 97 kids in their family. And that's all that happens when you have more than two children in the family. It's an eating contest. He finds out that the bags been half eaten, and he stabs his wife over it. But I still have left. I mean, also don't stab your wife. But like, no, you're right. There's tons of problems.

Tons of problems. I just picked one with that reaction. Yeah. He really went, he really went straight to 60. He didn't even, there was no discussion. There's no who did this sit down, respecting people's potato chips. Okay. But so it's the older kids going, this is this, and this is that. And then we came home and then our house was burned down for the one millionth time. So April starts to realize her father is not the person she remembers him to be. And she was only 11 years old when the sweetheart murders happened in Wisconsin. But she did remember that her father was the handyman at the Concord House. And she also remembers that he came home that night, the night that they disappeared with a cut on his nose and a black

eye. And he told his wife he'd been in a fight. But then later, when the police came to question him because he was the handyman, he told the police that it was from a hunting accident. So he changed his story. And April remembered that. She said, as she saw that picture, and like as the city name and the place where he worked, it was all coming together. And she started having like these weird recovered memories of the information. Yeah. So he tells the cops hunting accident. And then two days later, they move away in the middle of the night, which is the it is a good time to move because there's not traffic is better hot out. Yeah, you're not like boxes back and forth to the car sweating, right sunburns. That's a problem. I'm not sure what's next here. Oh,

the hand I wanted you to see that jacket that he wore on to tell the truth. I don't know if his wife sewed it for him off the couch or what the fuck happened. But he looks like, you know, an evangelical preacher or something. He does actually. He does an all American person. He looks like a different another kind of person that could light a fire inside you, right? Not under you with the Lord. Oh shit from paradise. Don't look. What is that? Oh, this is where it gets good. Oh my God. Okay. Not where I thought it was. I know. I know. And I have to hurry up because it's taking too long. But essentially. So April calls Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. She talks to Detective Chad Garcia. And she's basically like my dad fucking killed. It

was responsible with sweetheart murders. So this detective who I'm love with, of course, he he goes and looks at the case. He rereads the interview. He sees where Edward said that his injuries were from a hunting accident, which is insane, like clearly fight injuries. And he's like, oh, I hit myself in the face with the gun twice. Then he reads Edward's book, The Metamorphosis of a Criminal, and sees that this guy is basically fucking nuts out of his mind. So three weeks later, he calls April, lets her know that the DNA that they took from Kelly Drew's pant that sample that they sent it into the lab. And they also got DNA from Ed Edwards. And it was a match. So they extradited him back to Wisconsin to charge him with a double murder. So at this point,

old Ed Edwards is 77. He's got like permanent oxygen tank. He's got diabetes. He's very overweight in very poor health. He knows they have him for the sweetheart murders. But when he's in custody, he finds out that Wisconsin does not have the death penalty. So he writes a letter to the Ohio authorities and says, you're going to want to come talk to me because I got some shit to say to you. And so the cops from Ohio come up and then he starts confessing to the 1977 unsolved murder case of 18 year old Judith Stroud and 21 year old Bill Lovacco, who had both been shot in the neck while they were in a car. It was another lovers lane situation. Their bodies had been left in a public park. Then he confesses to the 1996 murder of his own foster son, Danny Boy.

That's right. So what really had happened was Ed had convinced Danny to go AWOL from the army, said, come out into the woods. I'm going to show you how you get out of military duty. And Danny's thinking he's going to show him some shoot yourself in the pan or whatever it is. And that's when Ed Edwards shot him point blank. And it turns out that Edwards was planning to cash in Danny's $250,000 life insurance policy, which he never got to do. So in the end, after all of that, Edwards pled guilty to five murders. He asked for the death penalty. They said, nobody. Instead he got four life sentences. But don't get too excited because he was only in jail a month and then he died of natural causes. Stupid bastard. Okay. Now, Detective Chad Garcia

of the Jefferson County Sheriff's office says he is, quote, pretty confident that there are at least five to seven more murders Ed Edwards committed. And he gave a list of 15 confirmed and suspected victims. So they have all these murders that that hook into the timeline of Ed Edwards, which brings me to the mental breakdown part of the story. Because as I'm watching brain scratch, this is your mental breakdown. I thought you meant his. Oh, no. Okay. No, he's gone now. So remember in the show, I think you did Nathan bar Jonah on this show. So we've often recommended the TV show real detectives where real detectives tell you the story of cases that they had to work on and ended up closing. And so on that show on the episode about Nathan bar Jonah, the most hideous

child killer of all time. I mean, that's a fucking contest to win. Yeah, I mean, you really, there's a lot of competition. But that one bummed me out incredibly badly. Nothing else bothers me on this show. It's all so fun. But on that show, former police detective, John Cameron is the detective that's explaining that story. And he's the one that closed that case. Okay. So a John Cameron has written a book called it's me. Edward Wayne Edwards, the serial killer you've never heard of. And in the book, he details the murders that Edwards has been convicted of, then he provides analysis and argument for a bunch of other murders that he thinks that Edwards is could be responsible for, including the murder of Adam Walsh in 1981. The murder of Jean Benet Ramsey in 1996. But he was

in Boulder. He was in Boulder. He was in Boulder. And he looked like Santa Claus. He looked like Santa Claus. I'm okay. I buy it. Okay. Thank you. You just have to say it twice. And then you're convinced. Say it really like Santa Claus. Okay. And then the Robin Hood Hills murders of Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers and Michael Moore. Now this is, of course, all of this is like, it's, it's theory, it's conjecture. But so you know how an April says this in, in her, there's an interview of hers where she talks about remembering how her father, as we said, ingratiated himself with the police. He was obsessed with police procedure of going in and basically watching the crimes that he committed that other people were getting sent to jail for. He liked

to go in and kind of stand around and be like, interesting. So in the documentary that we've all seen of the West Memphis tree, there's this very famous scene where these parents are at their son's grave. I believe this is Christopher Byers parents. It's the saddest thing in the world at this at the grave. And then in the background, no, no, no. Yeah. Is that him? That's they say it's him. Now a lot of dudes look like that. So it's like, it does look like Santa on vacation. For sure. Does he have money in his hand? I don't know. Oh, what the fuck. If you watch, you can see it in the clip and it's just the documentary just cuts away like there's other people at the cemetery. They will, they believe that this is him at the cemetery. Holy shit.

Well, guess what else? In making a murderer. That's him in the hallway behind the lawyers. Are they sure it's him? They know it's him. That is him because you'll see there's, oh, shit. I don't think I have pictures of him later. But basically, yeah, I've seen him. Yeah, he's like this big dude has a real pointy kind of downward facing nose. And anyway, that John Cameron theorizes that he set up Stephen Avery because he holds on. He lived an hour away at the time of Teresa Hallback's murder. And she disappeared on Halloween night. And he killed people on Halloween night. That's a bunch of they they traced. I feel like now people are yelling at me. I don't like it at all. It's not my fucking theory. It's stressed me out more than you don't like it.

Imagine me at three o'clock thinking I was done with my homework and then this shit pops up. And it's the most interesting theory I've ever heard in my life. You got him back. They're back. They're back and they love it. They love it. Okay. Okay. Okay. He's basically the zealig of modern murder. This man. But there's one more. Oh, yes, that's right. John Cameron says that Ed Edwards is the Zodiac killer. Sorry, Ted Cruz. That's what I only got to this part of the story. I got to this part at like, what, six o'clock? And I was that was past the pictures point. I can't get Stephen pictures past like 530 or whatever. Right. So this is where you would see a side by side of early Ed Edwards

and that drawing of this of the Zodiac where he has glasses on. Oh my god, I'm seeing it in my brain and I can totally see it. Because he has a fucking plain white guy face and a pointy nose. And if he just had some glasses on, I like kind of been lipped. Right. Is it him? Did you think he did? Yeah, it's him. It's definitely him. Well, here's the here's the thing. He lived in Northern California in the 60s. He at the same time as each of the Zodiacs murders. And some claim that he closely matches that original description. Others say fuck no. But April at Edwards Daughter says that he used to make the kids watch videos about the Zodiac killer. And while they watched it, he would scream, that's not how it happened.

I want her hometown murder fucking told dude. She just gets up and walks on stage. Give me that at done. So essentially, to learn more about this case, there's some I mean, like I was going totally insane. So basically, if you want to see April talk about how her father is a serial killer, it two weeks ago on investigation discovery, there's a show called People Magazine Investigates. And right, we all love People Magazine. It's the true crime Bible murders are just like us. My, the show is called My Father the serial killer. Oh, my God. It's April telling this whole story. It's super awesome. But also on Spike TV, they produce a six part documentary call documentary series based on John Cameron's theories called it was him with Edward's grandson,

a guy named Wayne Wolf, and they both go in and explore all John Cameron's theories about where he was and how he possibly could be involved in pretty much every famous murder of modern time. Yeah, basically, that's the story of Edward. There's lots more. Sorry, that took so long. There might be one more picture on there, but I don't know what it is. I don't want to show mine. Roller fucking coaster ride. That was that was that was insanity. Oh, my God. Go on to brain scratchers.com because it has like all the research. It has all this stuff, like raw research that this guy has collected and it's so crazy. That was bananas. Yeah. Now that I am peeled up and ready to go. Yeah. Okay. Are you guys ready?

For a fucked up story. I had never fucking heard of this. Oh, it's bananas, the Kirtland cult killings. Oh, shit. Holy shit. Do you know these? I do not. All right. And God damn it, I love a cult. I know you do. Yeah, I know you do. This is the worst mass murder in the history of Lake County. That's murders. Yeah, really quick. I feel like we should have explained this before to the people who are brought here tonight against their will. Don't know about the podcast, all the people who work here are partners of people who are like, I don't want you, but you did the thing with me. So I'll go to this with you. Yeah. When you hear this cheering, it is not cheering for death. Nobody's cheering for that. It's more of like,

we've all been sitting alone with this information for so long. And now we get to do it together. All right, that helps. So Kirtland cult killings. Okay. So let's talk about the cult leader first. Okay, fucking this dick, Jeffrey Lundgren. He was born in, in May of 1915, Independence, Missouri. He's the child of super no one cheers. Nope. Okay. No Mormons here. Okay. He's the child of strict super religious parents. They're members of the reorganized church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It's a small offshoot of Mormonism. Okay. Unlike most religions, they're open to the idea of modern day prophets, right? So yeah. So according to sources, he, Jeffrey was severely abused as a child and he was a loner throughout high school. But as he grew into adulthood,

he became a religious fanatic. He was excellent memorizing verses in the Bible and the church of Mormon book. Yep. The book of Mormon. You know, from the church, you wanted to know, which he studied endlessly. So he's obsessed with religion. He goes to central, central Missouri State University and he spends, but you don't like the city. Okay. He, he hangs out at a house for RLDS youth and he meets another student, their name Alice Keeler. She had been told by a church elder that she was destined to marry a great church leader. So when she finds Jeffrey Lundgren, who's like, Hey, what's up? I'm a modern day prophet. Here's, here, listen to me spout all this fucking Bible shit I memorized. You know, college stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah. I

know the book from Mormon. What's up? She's like, Oh shit. This is him. It's him. This is him. It's him. So, but they start fooling around out of wedlock, which they're not supposed to do. No, unacceptable. Right. And so Alice gets pregnant and then Jeffrey flunks out of college, whatever. They get married. Oh, I forgot that that's the college that we cheer for is people who flunked out of it. Oh, yeah. Flunk out. Yeah. It can work too. They, they get married and by 1980, they have four children. They're all still super religious. And by this time he starts telling Jeffrey starts telling his wife that he had visions that he was at the crucifixion and that he was with Christ when he died and he can see, and he can also see the future. Just really quick,

just to point out, people never have visions were like, I was at the crucifixion, but I was way in the back and there's like a, there's a tall guy in front of me that talked really loud the whole time. I didn't get it. Or is that the crucifixion that was for one of the other guys? It was that those other criminals. It wasn't for the one guy. It was the upside down guys. It was not, it was nothing to write home about. That never happens. Everybody's Cleopatra. And Alice was like, great. She believes him. She better. She has four of his kids. Yeah. Okay. He then told her that God had told him that, that they needed to move to Kirtland, Ohio. It must be nice. If God's like, hey, then it must be a nice place. God's like,

there's this amazing four bedroom house. Really good square footage. There's a great room. So that's where the first church of the Mormon faith was and it's a mecca for Mormons. So they're like move there and like get more religious. If you can try it. Give it a whirl. So in April 1984, the Lundgren family and moves from Missouri to Kirtland and Jeffrey volunteers as a tour guide for the historic Kirtland temple. And he also worked as a Bible study teacher, but the church like what like the main dude, what do they call him? Priest? I don't know. Not in the LDS. I don't think they do. Okay. Well, let's main dude. Not God. He's the one below God. Yeah. He's walking. He's the elder. The elder. I knew it first. One of the chuchel. One of the church elders is like

walking by his Bible study thing. And he, and he hears Jeffrey be like, forget everything that they just said at the church today. Listen to me. And he's like spouting all this negative shit about like hell and stuff, which I guess they're not stoked on. Well, yeah, you know, to children? No, to like elder people. Okay. And so the elders are like, bro, you can't do that. And, um, so they also suspected them stealing $25,000 to $40,000 from temple, temple store. And so the temple bowling league. So they kick his ass out of the church. You said the temple store. Yeah. They had like a souvenir store. A souvenir. You know what I mean? Got it. Souvenirs like the Book of Mormon or big Superman, right? What about a foam finger? It's just like,

hey, God pointing up. Yes. Okay. So this by this time around 1987, though, he had already won over a small flock of his study group, but a dozen people flock. And he by claiming that he was a prophet following God's orders and promising that they would see the face of God if they followed his teachings. So they believed him. So they left the church with him. And, uh, he began to prophesize that Kirk Kirtland would be the site of the second coming of Christ. Wow. Kirtland, Ohio. Why not? Do you have a picture? Oh, I have a picture of the second coming of Christ picture of God's face. Y'all ready for this? Uh, so this is the Lundgren family. That's Alice and that's asshole over here. He looks like a real fun guy. I just, they look happy and that's what's

important. All right. Um, so the Lundgren family and their four children and around eight of their followers all move into a house together. What a bummer. 15-acre rental property in Kirkland. It's, uh, got a central old house that they all live in and also a barn. And they, and the followers all call Jeffrey and Alice mom and dad red flag. No, no, no. Yeah. Unless, unless you're on mama's family, don't every night they have intense scripture classes taught by Jeffrey. Of course, he can do it for hours and hours on end and they just fucking sit there and listen and preach his craziness, his negative bullshit. He tells his followers that everything they knew was wrong. They had to erase their memories and

start over with what he told them and they weren't allowed to pray without him. And, yeah, they can't tell. I'm praying right now. You don't know. Can't tell me. Stop it. Amen. They turn over their paychecks. Click. They turn over their paychecks to him and all their possessions to him. Fucking classic cult shit right here. He would ease drop on the cult members and that made them believe that he could read their minds. Oh no. You know what I mean? He's like got the glass up to the wall. Cult members were forbidden to talk amongst themselves. I couldn't talk to each other.

What's the upside of this cult? Just not having to think that much. They get a high five. God. One day. If they talked amongst each other, it was a sin and he called it murmuring. Just like, oh my God. And he made them all fast and he would like fucking eat all this food around them and shit and like threaten them. He was a psychotic person. And he was really charismatic and I think really good at speaking. I think he was definitely, I hope so. Psychopath. So one of the families that become devoted followers of Jeffrey Lundgren was the Averys. In 1987, Dennis Avery, who was an assistant in a bank in Missouri, moved to Kirtland with his wife, Cheryl, and their three daughters, Trina, who was 15,

Rebecca was 13, and Karen was seven. They were family of bookworms. They were really passive people and Jeffrey would complain about the Averys because Dennis let Cheryl quote wear the pants in the family, which he thought was fucking sacrilegious. It's a sin that you're letting your wife tell you to pick up your fucking socks off the floor. Because she's talking and that's not allowed. No. She's not being subservient. So it's a sin. Dennis gave him $10,000 from the sale of their Missouri home, but he kept some of the money for himself and his family, and he also wouldn't live in the house with them. And so Jeffrey was pissed off about that too. Here's a picture of the Averys. Oh, they're nice. We can, oh, okay. Okay. Whoa. So, Lundgren began preaching about

the end of days and planned a raid on the temple that fucking fired his ass. You mean the main Mormon temple? Uh-huh. Okay. He was like, we're going to raid it. And that this time they had started practicing military maneuvers and stockpiling weapons and dressing in military garb. A bad sign at church. Yeah. Not what it's about. No. And all the neighbors were like, this isn't good. Yeah. I'm like told on him. Sure. And also one of the cult members at this point, Kevin Curry, who had 1988 was like, I'm out of here. This is not what I fucking signed up for. He goes to the FBI and tells them about his plan to use lethal force to seize the Kirtland temple. It was planned for May 3rd, 1988, which was Lundgren's 38th birthday, which is like,

happy fucking birthday to me. Yeah. He's one of those like, it's my birthday all month. Yeah. And at the end, we're going to go out for margaritas. And then we're going to raid the temple. Right. So the FBI passes the info along to Kirtland police chief, Dennis Yarbrough. And the day before the attack, they're like, Jeffrey, can you come talk to us for a minute at the police station? And he's like, no, no, no, I'm not going to do that. I swear. But the, when he gets back home to his cult, he doesn't tell them about that. He was like, I had a conversation with God who told me we're not going to raid the church. Okay. You know, in there, because then he was, but then he was like nervous that they weren't going to believe in him anymore, because he didn't follow through

with it. But he's like, but don't worry, we're still going to fucking do something violent. And they're like, great. That's all we want as followers of this religion. Yeah. So instead of focusing on the church, he turns his attention to his own flock, which he says has evil in it. And they need to quote cleanse sin from the group. He says that that sin is the Avery's. It gets worse. Yeah. Always. You know, every time I look over here to tell you guys something and then look back, I can't see the words because my retinas are burned. So take some minute. He tells his followers at the end of days are approaching something that I love to fucking say all the time, but I don't kill people. And he promised other followers would

get salvation if they sacrificed the Avery family. That's insanity. Yes. So they had been at this point is his whole flock, which are all normal people. They're like husbands and wives and people who have normal jobs and were just really into their faith had been so whipped up into a religious frenzy that they were ready to do whatever he told them to do because of the return of Jesus Christ. So on April 17th, 1989, the Avery's are called the Lengren residents. And when they get there in the evening, one of the members of the cult, Debbie Alivarez, said she thought it must be God's will that this was going to happen. She walked the fan. So basically they go, what? I know this one. You do now that we're almost done. Yes, I just, I just remembered you. I never

heard of it before. Are they going to walk them to the barn? Okay. Did you see an episode of something about an American justice about it? Yeah. Listen, you guys here. What's his name? Bill Curtis. Bill Curtis's voice in your head. That's right. But they were not going to go to the leather jacket leather jacket for no reason. Okay, so they bring the family to the house and Dennis Avery is asked to go into the barn for whatever reason. He's walked there. He's rendered unconscious with the stun gun. He's gagged and this is the father and dragged to a pre dug pit where he shot. Jeffrey shoots him in the back of the head twice and he dies. Next, Cheryl, the wife is lured when she told that was that her husband needed help. She's bound and

lowered in the pit and she shot three times and dies. And after that, the three daughters, Trina, 15, Becky, 13 and Karen seven are also shot and killed in place next to their parents in the pit. It's and all these fucking members are there and they knew it was going to happen and they all go along with it. In fact, some of one of the members stood outside the barn while this happened and ran a chainsaw so the neighbors wouldn't hear the gun man off. Well, they're in deep like they're all of their humanity was stripped away. That's the whole thing of cults where you lose yourself entirely and it all becomes about this person you're following and you just don't you're just doing what they say. And that's the craziest. That's why they're so fascinating is how does

that happen to a person that's manages a bank or does anything that you think, oh, you would know not to do this. But it's that it's it's how cultural there was one woman who was Jeffrey's cousin who like joined the culture was like a single mom. And later in interviews, she's just like, I wanted someone to make all the decisions for me. I was scared and didn't, you know, didn't want to live my own life. And so it was nice to have someone make decisions for me. So at what point are you then you like, no, I mean, you'd hope it would be this point, but they don't. But but also it is that thing to the idea of the promise of say like it whatever the promise ends up being like Jesus is returning that becomes so real. And that ideas is your salvation. So you're

going to do anything it takes to make sure that that happens. Right. Yeah. I was going to say something real sacrilegious, but I'm not. I mean, what if what if what if it's not that great? When you go to heaven and you did all of that first, I'm like, I guess it's cool. Yeah. What if it's just like a shitty diner and you're like, oh, I was really looking forward to this for this for this. Sorry, Jesus, I'm sorry. I'm Jewish. I don't have to apologize. I just have to call my aunt who's a nun and tell her everything that we did tonight and then I'll be fine. Cool. During the flood, okay. Then the neighbors did say they had only heard chainsaws running that night. God, which is a horrible horrible thing to hear at night. Yeah, you're

not cutting wood at night. Not safe. The bodies of the Avery family are covered in lime and buried in the pit. They scatter trash all over it and then they go back to the farmhouse and hold a prayer meeting. The very fucking next morning, the FBI and cops show up to the house to kind of do a welfare check because of the complaints from the neighbors who were sick of nighttime chainsaws. Yeah. So imagine this fucking flock is like, oh, shit, like the next morning. Yeah. But they don't even know what's going on yet. So the FBI interviews everyone, make sure they all want to be there, you know, by choice. And one of the police members is like, well, what about, there's a family called the Avery's. Do we need to interview them? And they

said no because they weren't deemed important because they weren't as active in the cult. So they never sought to find them. Sought to find them? Maybe. Sought them out? It's good. Sought them out. Okay. Stephen. Okay. So later that day, they're like, that was a close call. Let's get the fuck out of here. So they, uh, they get the fuck out of there. Oh, and they go to a remote campsite in West Virginia, where they lived in the guys, where they live in the fucking wilderness, wilderness for boo, exactly. There is a strong booing section that I'm into right here. They go live in the wilderness for seven months. What a fucking bummer, man. And the whole time they were like, dude, you told us that he was going to come to Kirtland. And so why are we here?

Quick change of plans. It is still my birthday. I want to camp. And after all these months, the fucking Lundgren family are like, just kidding, it's going, it's going to happen in Southern California. And they fucking take off and leave everyone behind the family. Really? Yeah. So everyone is suddenly like, oh, shit. Fuck. We might have made a huge mistake. So by December 31st in 1989, this cult member, Larry Johnson, whose wife had left him to take up with the Lundgrens too in Southern, sunny Southern California, was like, oh shit, this was a bad idea. And he contacts ATF agents in Kansas City. He spills the beans, tells them fucking everything, including details of his own involvement in the murders and gives the agents a hand-drawn map of the barrier,

of the barn where the pit is, where they can find the bombing is. So on January 3rd, I guess they wait till after New Year's. They were just trying to arrange schedules and stuff. You know, they couldn't get hold of the judge from the signage, a fucking search warrant, because the judge is just plastered out of his... No, this is not. I mean, you never know. We make and shit up. That could be true. So they search the burial pit based on the drawings. And after clearing away large amounts of garbage and debris, they begin digging. And by the time it's dark out, they find the first set of human remains, they find Dennis, then they find the rest of the bodies. And they're all horrified. This is like a nice suburban town with a lot of religious people in

it. And so restaurants are issued for Lundgren and 12 of his followers, including Alice, his wife, and their 19-year-old son Damon. You named your kid Damon? It's close to Damien, which is Satanic. Or Damon. Richard Brand is one of the cult members. Richard Branson at Virgin Airlines? Sharon Bluntchilly, Katherine Johnson, Daniel Kraft, Ronald Lough. Sharon Vaughnchilly? Sharon Bluntchly. Ronald Lough, Susan Lough, Deborah Oliveira's, Dennis Patrick, Tonya Patrick, and Gregory Winship. So here's... I think I have a photo of all of them. I mean, at once, don't worry. Here we go. So these are the people that fled to L.A.? No, these are all of them. Oh, it's everybody? Fucking cult members. Check it in, see? Look at their dead eyes. This was... Was this a Lenscrafter's cult?

Rough stuff. Yeah. So the charges against the 12 accomplices ranged from conspiracy to commit aggravated murder, complicity to aggravated murder and kidnapping. And by... Inside of one week, all the suspects are in police custody. Some of the members had charges dropped, not many, due to non-involvement or only given obstruction of justice charges. But the rest of them get some fucking hard ass time. Richard Brand... One of them, Richard Brand, is 26 years old when he was arrested in connection with the murders of the Averys. He's a... Let's just explain it. He's a fucking college graduate with a degree in civil engineering, and he participated to avoid a life sentence. He agrees to plead guilty to five counts of complicity to aggravated murder in exchange for testimony

against Jeffrey Lundgren and other cult members. He was in the barn in the night when the Averys were murdered. And he... So Jeffrey Lundgren is the triggerman, but he says they were all willing accomplices, though. His job was to help bind and gag the victims before they were shot. It's insane. So Ronald Leff, he's a key in planning and facilitating the murders with Jeffrey, is sentenced to 170 years to life. Alice Lundgren, who was trying to say that she wasn't really part of it. She was just a subservient wife and that he was abusive. The jury was like, hell fucking no. She sentenced to 150 years to life in prison. Two months later, their son Damon is sentenced to four consecutive life terms without parole for 120 years. And then... So Jeffrey Lundgren's trial

starts in 1990, and it only takes two hours for the jury to find him guilty of five counts each of aggravated murder and kidnapping. But then on his... At his sentencing, he's allowed to give like a talk, whatever. What? Five fucking hours. He preaches his insane fucking shit for five hours. He like stands at this pulpit, like he's giving a fucking sermon and goes on and on. And everyone in the courtroom is like, we could see how fucking insane he was by now. He just seems so crazy. Attack one more life sentence on there. Right. Here's a photo of him after when he was arrested. Yeah, he's like a low rent Fabio. Oh. Ouch. Youch. Yeah. I don't know if he wore that jacket. I'd listen to what he had to say.

Shit. I know. White track suit. Who are you? So... Blah, blah, blah. Hold on. Two hours. Then he gets sentenced to die in the electric chair. Oh, shit. Plea deals are reached with six... Because of that sermon. All right. Sorry. All right. Cancel that. Cancel that order. Plea deals are reached with six defendants who agree to provide testimony in exchange for reduced sentences. All those defendants have been paroled. Six of them. Five of those people spent about 20 years behind bars before going free. Five are now in prison after having served... Wait, five are now out of prison. Four are still serving time, including Alice Lundgren. And she's not eligible for parole

until... And then there's a period at the end of that sentence. Like what, Georgia? I think it was like 2098. Okay. Okay. That's a great number. Okay. All right. So then on October 24th, 2006, with this... Last of the appeals are exhausted, Jeffrey Lundgren is executed by lethal injection at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility 16 years after he murdered the Avery family. Shit. Yeah. A smattering of polite applause for lethal injection. He died with no family or friends among the witnesses and no one claimed his body and he was buried in a prison grave. Shit. Shit. However, a Missouri church community raised thousands of dollars. No, no, no, no, no. Come on. No. To pay for the burial

of the Avery family in Missouri. See. Of course they did. That's what real church does. That's what real church does. And they launched a children's charity in memory of Trina, Rebecca, and Karen Avery. Yay. And that is the fucking Kirtland cult feeling. Fuck you guys. God. This was a heavy episode. It's heavy. I would have had a breakdown if Stephen's beautiful face wasn't here this whole time. Thank you, Stephen's cookie face for getting us through that. It's just like having him in the loft. It's just like brushing your hair with his mustache. Stuff that gets you through the hard times. Do we have... We always have time for a hometown. Okay. Rules. If your hand is up right now, you're not getting gorgeous lights. Look at this. Oh,

beautiful. Hi. You have to listen to rules because they're crucial, crucial rules. Crucial rules. Here we go. balcony. It's not happening. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. This is a union theater. We have to leave at a certain time. We can't wait for you to haul your ass down here. Okay. Here's the rules. We want it to be a local story. Don't come up here and tell some fucking Florida story. Ohio. Ohio. Cleveland. Anywhere. Nearby. Also, as you know, you can't be so drunk that you can't tell your own story. Buzz is fine, but you have to keep it moving. This is the crucial rule that we realized in the last couple of shows. Please remember as the storyteller and as the hometown teller tonight, everyone else in the audience hates your guts. So I wouldn't shout out a friend

when you got up here. I wouldn't be kissing fingers and pointing to people. I would tell your story quickly, factually, make sure you know the names. You know, make sure that you've got it in hand. But not, but you can't. All right. Here we go. Yeah. So was there any other was what rules? Oh, obviously you can't read off a piece of paper. People know how to do it at this point. Someone just said my name. Of course they're saying your name. Don't be a sap. Now she's crying. There's also the other rules. There's no crying or there's only crying. Look, that's the man who got us here tonight. Hi. What's your name? My name is Carly. You have to come over here. You have to let them look at you. Carly. Hi. Carly with a C? Yes, with a C. Where are you from? No, your eye.

Your hip buzz. Where are you from? I am from, thank you. Get up there. Get up on that. I'm from Cleveland. Yes. That's what we're talking about. So all your friends with the matching shirts, they were pointing. That's adorable. What does it say? It says SSDGM. With some murdery scenes. Beautiful. The forest. Yeah. They were pointing at you furiously. Why is it because you have a great hometown? It's pretty good. It's pretty good. Okay. I like it. Humble. I'm going to pick all of you out. I'm very concerned about being respectful towards the people involved. I'm not going to directly name names. Okay. Okay. So in about 2011, I guess, I was working as a substitute English teacher at my old high school, which is strange in itself, where I met some pretty awesome

new English teachers. And one was this young woman. Oh, sorry. Can we just take a moment to clap for English teachers? Yes. Thank you. God bless them. They're all also Uber drivers. Okay. I've been paying half of my sister's mortgage for years. So anyways, I met this young woman who was fresh out of college, you know, still living at home, really passionate about her job. And anyways, I met her and I'm sitting in the office and the head of the department walks in and she's like, oh, young badass teacher. I'm not naming your name. Let's call her, what are we going to call her? Let's call her Annie. Great. Okay. She's like, Annie, have you heard anything about your mom? Like, where, you know, I heard she was gone. Like, did you

heard from her? Where is she? Do you know anything? And I was like, ooh. Anyways, and Annie was all like, oh, yeah. You know, she left a few weeks ago and, you know, we're not that concerned. My dad said she just like, you know, met up with this group and, you know, we'll see her eventually. And basically was kind of like, oh, we're okay. Anyways, a few weeks later, I get an email from the school saying Annie's mom did not join a cult. She was murdered by her husband. Annie's dad. Anyways, as the story goes, why are you laughing? It's nervousness. Out of nervousness. So anyways, Annie's, Annie apparently got suspicious of what was going on in our house.

Apparently there was a foul stench coming from her garage and, you know, kept asking her dad, what is that? What is that? Apparently they kept chickens in their backyard and he was claiming that one of the chickens had died and he just hadn't cleaned up the body or whatever. So clearly Annie was smarter than that and eventually was very disturbed by it and called the police and the police showed up. Turns out her mom's body was in the garage. Apparently she was stuffed in a sleeping bag with a plastic bag over her head. There was like, panties stuck in her mouth and a tarp over her body that was duct taped. Bag of lime, bleach, everything, all right there. Apparently when the police showed up, the dad was trying to like block,

oh, I'm sorry, side note, the dad was an ex cop. Uh-oh. Here we go. Living in the town that he worked for. So when the police showed up, I'm assuming he was not happy to see his old colleagues trying to break into their garage and he had to be tased in order to get in where they found this terrible scene. Oh my God. Anyways, I guess. Did you ever see Annie again? She did not come back to work as I know and then, but now she is back at the school and apparently living an awesome life and, you know, I'm not friends with her anymore. I was more of an acquaintance type thing, but it was one of those things that was like, oh my God, I know this person that this happened to and so be it. It's insane. Oh my God. Carly, you're Carly. Oh yeah. Look at she gets. Yeah, that's

right. Great job, honey. Thank you. Give Vince the mic or Karen. Oh, you can give it to him. Okay. Fun. Fun. Now she has a job. Great job, Carly. Great job, Carly. Oh, awesome. Wow, that went really fast, you guys. I'm so sweaty. Thank you so much for everything, you guys. It's so crazy that we say this every show. Yeah, but we're so thrilled that we get to do this. We have the best fucking time. We love coming out and actually meeting the people that listen to our insane podcast and the fact that you guys turn up the way you do, the way you sell out theaters this size for us. It's great. Thank you so much. It's so amazing. We're so thrilled and we're so happy and feel so lucky. We get to be a part of this. So thank you guys for supporting

us and we love you. We love you and stay sexy. Bye Cleveland. Thank you.