My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 14 - You Sexy Motherfourteen

Episode Date: April 29, 2016

Karen and Georgia tackle their favorite 1990s murders, featuring serial killer Joseph Naso and the death of Sherrice Iverson in Nevada.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Okay, we're recording. Okay, good, because we should do a podcast. I mean, we've had like an hour of deep conversation before this podcast even started. Yeah, we had to really connect and put some stuff on the table. It was important. Aire some dirty laundry, not even like Aire some daren. I think every episode I'm going to terribly sing a bad song. That'll be my new thing. Do you mind? No, because every episode you sing a good song. My notebook is so far away. Georgia just

stood up and it looked like she was starting to do stand-up comedy. We're both laying on the couch and then she jumped up and like took a pose. I was like, can I make it to this dresser and get my notebook? Oops, without. And then yeah, it looked like stand-up comedy. Because those are your notes from your, you're watching your show with the famous lawyers. Hey, let's get right into it. Okay. I was trying to do a long introduction, but now I can't remember their names. By the way, this is my favorite murder. Oh, hi. Yes. Hi, guys. With Karen and Georgia. Welcome to episode 14. That's Karen. I'm Georgia. Yeah. Do you want to give a shout out real quick before you even start to the name of that? Because we have like, we started, we started naming the episodes weird

things and now we're just like on it. Now we're just trying to make each other laugh. And when we think of it, it's just a pump, basically a pun contest. The teens are hard. The teens are pretty tough. And last week, 13 going on Murdy is the episode title that my friend, Owen Ellickson, DM'd me on Twitter and basically just said it was right after the number 12 dropped. He just DM'd and it said next week should be 13 going on Murdy. That's all he said. Yeah. There's no way it's not going to be. Can we have a contest for like, so we don't have to think of them anymore? Like people writing us. Sure. Like 14. What is 14? What if we just open this whole podcast up and have other people do it? It's all moderated. It's all moderated by other people. It's moderated,

produced, and talked through, researched, and then performed by. Yeah, that'd be fun. But it's back here in Georgia. Yeah, we'll still own it. We'll own the copyright. Speaking of, I just bought the rights to Michael Ramsed's adorable drawing. Oh, yes. Of my favorite murder. The one, if you see the drawing of the two of us lying, it's a cute little cartoony drawing of us lying prone with like murder weapons around us. That's the one on the Facebook page. Yeah, Michael Ramsed, who's like this fucking incredible, like incredible artist drew it just for fun because he's a nice guy. Thanks, Michael Ramsed. And I was like, Hey, can I buy that from you so we can make t-shirts? So in the next few weeks, hopefully. Oh, yeah, because we've got some spec t-shirts, right?

Yeah, there's already a mock up of the t-shirts. It's like, it's happening. You guys, you can have a t-shirt. Pretty soon. We'll all wear t-shirts around town. Yeah. And if we see you, we'll murder you. Yeah. That's how we'll know to murder each other. That'd be amazing. What was hoping turns into a craze cult where everyone just murders each other. What's that cosplay thing where you like, there's people, like, if you're wearing a certain thing, you have to murder, you have to like tag that person, but it's pretend murder, and then you're out of the game. Have you heard of that? Um, is it Dungeons and Dragons? No, it's close. Is it LARPing? Yes. Is it live action role playing? It's LARPing. How does she even know that? Is it the Renaissance fair? I love

nerds. I research their shit all the time. I want to know what they do on the weekends. LARPing. What a grand idea. Live action role playing. Do you know that? That's so cool. Yeah. Well, we're nerds too. And you did something on the weekend. We're murder nerds. Murder nerds. I did I did do something. I went to see, uh, String and Buting. The ticket of the weekend. Everyone was talking about this show. Did I say that right? I think so. Okay. So they were the defense attorneys for Stephen Avery from Netflix, making a murderer. Um, who, of course, if you saw it, you fell in love with them and, and, uh, are obsessed with them as I am. They're good men trying to do good in it in an unjust world. Yeah. Defense attorneys as a whole, I think are good people. I hope so. You

know, I mean, I wouldn't want to park next to them in a Trader Joe's parking lot in general. Right. But that's an LA lawyer thing. I like that they're defending his right to a fair trial. They're not being like, he's innocent. They're like, he, this is, you're doing these things wrong. You're doing everything wrong. State of Wisconsin. Like they're, they're, what I've, what I took away from this, and I was like, this might be stupid. I'm so sick of my, of making a murderer. Like we, I have read about it to death, like other theories and shit. I was up on the show, like hardcore. Like, I was like this, I don't want to fucking hear audience questions about the cat getting burned for fucking two hours, you know, in an uncomfortable chair. I spilled a half a glass of wine on myself,

like right when I walked in. Oh, good. Cause that's what I red or white. Oh, red, of course. Perfect. Why would I spill white wine on myself? And you were wearing your white lace blouse? Yeah. It was, and I started screaming. I was Carrie. So you were trying to make it as difficult as possible from the outset. Yep. And then what happened? It was excellent. If you have a chance to see it, everyone go like it was a real, if you're interested to crime and, and law, law. Fascinating. A couple of things I wrote down. Guess how many, okay. So witnesses who are exonerated because of, because of, they were wrongfully convicted. Guess what out of 10, how many are overturned because of witness misidentification? So how many out of 10? I just

said, I almost just said the number. It's 11 out of 10. Well, eight. Is it some crazy high number? It's seven, which is still a lot. I shouldn't ask people that because it's like, it's like, if it's higher than I'm like, Oh, well, sorry, I always ruin our games like this by overshooting. And then it's like, well, it is still pretty high though. Yeah, that's crazy high. So seven out of 10 overturned convictions are because of witness misidentification. Yeah, they say eyewitness identification is one of the least reliable forms of what do you call it? Of testimony? Sure. Or I feel like by the clues, what's the word I'm looking for? Uh, evidence. That's right. There we go. We have a true cram podcast. We should know these

nouns. I feel like by 2050, they're going to be like, how fucking antiquated was like 2010 and before that they fucking were relying on witness testimony? Yes, for sure. Well, because at that point, there will be so much CCTV cameras in every corner of our lives. That is a fair point. That's probably what it will be. How do you feel about CCTV? I like it. I don't know. I don't. It's fine. I mean, I understand why people have a problem with it. But the idea that you think, and maybe there'll be a dystopian future where we live in some terrible government state where they watch everything you do. And it's all, you know, 1984. But for right now, that's how you fucking find the guy that walks up and hits someone on the back of the head and puts them in their car

before anyone knows what happens. I feel like if you're a true crime fan, you agree with that. And I feel like if the laws are fair in general, then CCTV is okay. You know what I mean? If laws are like, you can't smoke cigarettes and they're arresting people who are smoking cigarettes on CCTV, you know, like once the laws get a little fucking crazier, then which is like, you can't really tell. So yeah. But I just for now, anytime I watch a British, British procedural, I'm always like, well, they're going to get this on CCTV. There's no problem. Like my it's it's such a it's such a comfort to me in my old age. The fact that they rely on like bank cameras, like that they that, you know, when you see those that are like the bank camera caught the street for one second

and saw this car drive by and that's how they knew this person wasn't where they said they were. Yeah, like if you're going to rely on that, and that's going to be admissible, throw a camera up there fucking listen, I want to be safe. Who I mean, are people is it just not wanting to be monitored and not wanting to introduce the concept of a police state like that? Yeah, but like, it's already happening. It's I think keeping citizens. And it's almost like I feel like people do less horrible things outside if they know they're being watched. I know that's so naive. I think we're both, I think everyone in this whole conversation, whether they're forward against it is being naive. Because if they don't think the government is already fucking following

every single thing they say, yeah, they're stupid. Right. But if we think it's going to be okay that that closed captioning or closed captioning brought to you by I don't want deaf people to know what anyone is saying on parenthood. Speaking of, have you watched the new season of happy valley? Yes, I have. I had to put closed captioning on because it's so when the sister talks, you don't know what she's saying. What are it's a British procedural drama you guys should watch fucking great. It's so good. I think people have talked about it on the Facebook page. Yeah. But yeah, because I'm not done with the season. It's great. I won't tell you anything, but it is Northern England, I believe. My Lord, what are they fucking saying?

It's the craziest accent. And they said it's borderline Jordy, I think. What's that? It's a part Welsh or something like that. It's a crazy British accent. Let me see if there's something else from that. I wrote a couple notes, but I had had red wine by then. One out of five, so seven out of 10 of the overturned convictions are from witness misidentification. One out of five overturned convictions come from jailhouse informants, which is like, yeah, dude. Yeah. If you're giving someone a fucking lenient, what's it called? A sentencing? Lenient sentence because they're informing on someone. But you know what I do love is I love when they plant a cop as a prisoner and get that shit out. Yeah. So then nobody,

there's nobody benefiting that could possibly be lying. It's a lock. Right. And if you're stupid enough to tell your cellmate, which like so many people are stupid enough to tell their cellmate. Well, they can't help it if they're that certain personality, the psychopath and the narcissist and all that. That's what I find so fascinating is that it really is not every single killer is like that, but there is that there's a certain pattern, especially like, like murders that make no sense, like murders that aren't of like, that aren't domestic abuse, that aren't like personal, are these people are fucking crazy. When it's not out of quote, passion, which I hate saying that word because killing your fucking spouse isn't passion. It's just, it's just pure evil. It

should be called hysteria. That's really what it is. Yeah. That's that's that that is accurate. It's a man going hysterical. I read a thing recently. There's a chopper. Do you ever think that when you there's a helicopter over your house, that it's like, there's a loose criminal and they're going to park or wait, that's why I moved out of Silver Lake because there was helicopters in my like the searchlight in my backyard every night. I was like, I can't handle it. It's dumb. Crimes of passion and crimes of love, like you can't call it that. And the same way that someone I read recently that was like, you can't call, don't call it unconcentral sex, because sex is sex and rape is rape. And use the word rape. Right. They so often use sex. Yeah.

They use euphemisms like in journalistically. Yeah. When it's like when they're like, oh, they assaulted a child, you raped a child, save the words together so that people understand what happened. Right. Molesting is like such a vague term. Yeah. I remember there was that that documentary about that one priest who was like just sent from fucking church to church. Oh, that that documentary is one of them. I think about it all the time. I wish I'd never watched it. Well, there's one kid in it who's like, like he's you can tell he's like became a drug addict was so fucked up off it. And he says, that guy didn't molest me. He fucked me. Like he says that. Yeah. Yes. That's right. That's exactly like people don't talk about that. I'm so sorry for

listeners who are listening with their children. Well, there was one woman who said she was recommending it to her children. But I was assuming it was because they were all adults. Right. One would hope one would fucking hope. Um, yeah, no, it's all of that. I feel like that's there's just waves of change because so many people have voices these days that people get to talk about this enough so that it does affect change. But yeah, there's nothing that makes me angrier than it was like accused of a sexual assault of a minor where it's like, why are you rewording child rape? Yeah, so strange. Yeah, they did it. They need to get called what they did. But have you seen any of that news about Dennis Hastert going to trial? He's that Republican,

I think he was the speaker of the house and he's been molesting boys and raping boys. I why I just did it myself for years. Well, he was a wrestling coach in Illinois. It's just the craziest story, but he was one of the lead people that tried to get Clinton impeached when he had that affair. And meanwhile, fully raping boys. Somewhere in his head that makes sense to him does. It has to. Otherwise, how do you live your life? Like, I feel like if you and I killed someone, we would be, if you and I stole something from a grocery store, we would be like so rack, whatever, steal, shit, I don't care. Like, you know what I mean? Like, if I like, well, we have consciences. These are people who like are sociopathic or they're so,

they just want what they want. So that they rationalize everything that they do. That's the bullshit that these guys that are that these old guys that have been in power for so long, they're used to it. And you see these other Republicans defending him by saying there's one that said, I think it was Tom delay. Is that is that who it is? I don't know anything about politics, but he said we've all we've we all have personality flaws. Oh, that is not a personality it is not it is not it's a there's no excuse. I think it's I think it's become so normal in our culture that like there are molesters out there. And there are. Yeah, but I feel like that more and more there's like it just makes me think now we're going off on the craziest tangent, but it

makes me think of like the Franklin Credit Union scandal where for so long, the people that tried to report that they were like, you're out of your mind, you're talking about government officials. Well, now these government officials, it's in the light of day. All of these rich, white, old men who have been telling everybody how to live and what their value is for years and years are fucking the monsters of the highest order. It's crazy. It's the people who are are underrepresented and fucking striving just to make their families have a good life. You know what they say that like that are the good people is what I mean. Sometimes they're not. Anyways, they say that like if you want to get into politics, there's a part of you that's a narcissist to

begin with. Yeah, like you can't want to get into politics without having a little bit of fucking narcissism. Sure, which makes sense to me like I don't want to lead a bunch of fucking people. And bull and be a professional bullshitter and be on the take and lot basically just lie to people. Yeah. So you can get to where you want to get. Yeah. Into a place of power. Like who wants to be in a place of power? Well, and also what that power means, which it seems like the more we learn about it, it means that you go off to like Bohemian Grove and sacrifice a six year old to a big wooden owl and shit where you're just like, sorry, what? That's a rough episode. If you guys want to hear more about this, what we're talking about, listen to the last podcast in the last

episode Bohemian Grove Bohemian Grove and then what was the and the Franklin Credit Union that the way those guys did that and researched it is amazing. It's like a two or three parter. There's some shit that's hard to listen to like they get into the shit. They get into it and there's a couple because they also have one that's like Satanism in the government because they did a whole run about like all the satanic panic in the 80s and all that shit and how these things that were once considered conspiracies are actually proving to be 100% true. Well, it just sounds so ridiculous and obvious. It sounds like we're jellybee off of being like, no, the government is bad. I'm like, the government is Jerry Brown. You know, it's like, how was that?

That was dead on 1% of our listeners were like, yes, she nailed that. The other ones don't know what I'm talking about. So good. Wait, anything else from the you? It was at the Ace Hotel you tell you say? Yeah, it was there. Well, it wasn't they have this like feet up. Where are you pointing up? They have this like gorgeous theater at the Ace Hotel that they like fucking they stole. That was like a gorgeous theater to begin with and Ace Hotel was like, this is what I wrote because I love my little like crazy notes. False evidence, the most dangerous tool the cops use, said Strang. False evidence is the most dangerous. He was these dudes were like, is he the smaller one? Dean Strang. Strang is a smaller one. The other one looks like the eagle from the Muppets.

And Dean Strang is like this sensitive poetry teacher that's just trying to catch a break and can't believe like I'm just trying to teach you kids about poetry and you won't listen. And like, I mean, these guys can't make a ton of money. And I mean, they're just justified. They're so admirable that they are, you know, like what the things they were saying about how they're used to not they used to not allow like even recordings, voice recordings in a fucking interrogation. Oh, wow. Which is like, it's common fucking sense that you would if you were a cop, you would want this to be recorded at least audio. If not video, my cat is just smelling everything about you right now. I love it. Because you're not doing anything wrong. And so you

should it's the same thing with the fucking closed captioning. Yes, that's right. But I mean, I was going to say, you know, in the it immediately made me think of like LA confidential where it's like, you can't record it if you're not doing it on the books. And if cops are caught, you know, they there's always that mentality of by any means necessary, you got to get this perp. But that leaves out, you could be wrong. And that's the problem that that people I think that get into power like that, they lose the ability to question their own judgment, they lose the ability to be wrong. Right, they're just like after that, what they think is quote unquote, the truth. And it has to be their truth, because they have to win. Well, that's false confessions. And they talked

about Brennan Dassie, the nephew in making a murder who got you know, who can quote, confessed. And like, half of his testimony isn't, isn't video, you know, half of the shit that happened between them. And there's no parent there. And there's no lawyer there he should. That should should have all been stricken from the record. Like that should not have been entered into anyone's. What is the word? Entered into evidence. Evidence is the way did we miss the word evidence twice in the true crime. Wow, guys, episode 14 is a real roller coaster 14 14. We don't got it for 14 the bell tolls. Nope, dude. Yes, don't do that. Do not condescend to me. Okay, right on our Facebook page or tweet at us what number 15 should be, please. Yeah,

please. But know that, but you're now in the realm of comedy writing. And so you might get your feelings hurt. Just know that insult. We were going to we're going to read the worst ones and go with the best one. And we're going to name first, last and middle names. Oh, it's going to be a blood bath. We will not do any of that. Imagine we just turn. We never even make it to episode 20 because we turn on everyone in our cell huge bitches. What if we turn this podcast into a podcast called what if we just keep it's just a shit ton of conjecture for an hour and 10 minutes. What if we had to say it like that? Like what if no, what if like no, you don't even know you don't what if just keep going higher. Yeah, let's do that. All right. Should we do our

did we do all of our house cleaning? Do we have any corrections? I feel like for a corrections department like a murder enema like I just feel good right now. I got a true crime enema. That's good. I know that'll clean you right out. I mean, not just whoosh, you know what I'm saying? Wow. Do you want me to go first this this year? This year. So this theme, this theme is the last week we did 1980s murders, which was like easy for both of us, I feel like. Yeah. And then we were like, we're going to do 1990s murders. And then I feel like both of us today were like, what the I can't find a 90s murderer. I can't I was like, I can't find one. I don't have the will to live. What did I do to my eyebrow? I did I have a lot of eyebrow problems this weekend. I

can't I did something to my right eyebrow. It's not filled in right now. So you can see it. I just did some bottom plucking. You know, if I am about eyebrows, it's got an arch. It's got a nice arch. This over here is okay. It looks like you're like, you're being like inquisitive all the time. I constantly want to know something that I don't know my brow today to be like, Oh, I understand to someone and they're like, are you mad at me because I have Botox? I was like, maybe I need to lay off the boat. Are you mad at me? I was like, no, this is concern. You just can't tell because I have fucking, what are they called? I have just like chemical botulism in your muscles in my forehead. You know what? And you do. Girl, you you're wrinkle free. I because I can't live

another day with wrinkles. No, I don't care. Well, you're on that TV. I tell you, there's nothing worse. There's nothing worse than seeing what your how your face does on HG. Oh, HD, HDTV. Oh, man. Take a look at your face on HDTV. Tiny House Hunters Wrinkles, the worst kind. I we got, we were drinking and watching like you live in what like it's some like, and I was screaming at the TV as I do when I drink and watch TV and smoke about how everyone has a trust fund and go fuck yourself. Like I was angry at these people. Why does they were do but fucking that's what you think about as you're fucking for like they're what do they live in? Is it like we turn this fucking TV into like a six story open concept? Fuck you.

I wish I was here for that. Just screaming. Yeah. Well, there's they they think they intentionally cast kind of awful people so that you want you hate watch it because if you like the people, then you're just watching people buy shit and that's or like consider buying shit. Yeah, but I live with someone and so them here having to hear me scream at the TV about fucking about the only way you could have you could live like this is with a trust fund. Yeah, they like you need to mention that up top. Hey, I'm Mike Corey, the host of Wunderers podcast against the odds. In our next season, three mask men hijack a school bus full of children in the sleepy farm town of Chowchilla, California. They bury the children and their bus driver

deep underground planning to hold them for ransom. Local police and the FBI marshal a search effort, but the trail quickly runs dry. As the air supply for the trapped children dwindles, a pair of unlikely heroes emerges. Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcast. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wunderer app. Well, also to watch people buying like second homes on the beach. There's those ones that are like beach comers or whatever where I'm like, pardon me, I drove by, you know, six homeless people literally laying on the sidewalk on my way over here. And these motherfuckers are buying a fun second home. There's only so much everyone needs. Like you need to meet a basic maximum

of shit. And the rest of it is you being an asshole. You're not going to be any happier in the Bahamas. No, it's it won't work. You know why? I'm going to go to your fucking estate sale. And you're going to be in a home and I'm going to buy your shit. Oh my God, this is getting deep. This is going exactly where I need it to be. Finally, we're taking down the real monsters of this world, the people on HGTV. I mean, I'm happy for them. No, you know what, lots of love going out to them. Here's what we always say. Do do Lizzie's wishing them well. Oh, Lizzie is. I just you got to come from a place of love. Lizzie Cooperman. Love her. Lizzie Cooperman, legendary comedian. She's fucking amazing. Good friend.

You want to go first or me go first? I'll totally go first. Please go first. First of all, somebody tweeted this on the Twitter page at my fav murder. If you'd love to join us over there. I think I got locked out somehow on my phone and I can't figure out how to get back. You keep doing that. I do it and then I don't try to fix it. That's my thing. You try twice and you're like, fuck this. I'm like, no, you know what, fuck it. But somebody did tweet this and it made me realize because someone said something about murderpedia. I think they were just mentioning it, but they could have been saying, I am on to you how you use that of all in all your research, which I absolutely, I don't think they were,

but they could have been because I absolutely do. And murderpedia just as a recommendation, if you ever want to know about a killer, it's this amazing website where they have compiled tons of articles in one spot. So you can read like local newspaper articles about the person that you are researching. And there are links to every article. Can you tell I'm furring my brown anger right now? You cannot. But I also don't have my glasses on and I'm wearing a French sleeve t-shirt. So I'm slightly uncomfortable because I have an intense farmer's tan. There's so much going on in this apartment. We should get someone to paint it. Ali says this apartment is like a YouTube channel. And so it's really hard to pay attention to

anything in here because there's just like cats and like cute vintage things. It's so true. It's kind of aqua. It's very aqua. It's like, it's like, if you had a seizure issue, well, you do. Oh, shit. No, no, it's fine. If you were caring. I haven't in years. And I wouldn't in here. It's pleasing. Okay, good. I'm glad. So anyway, I get all my research off Murderpedia. Probably should have said that. Probably should cite research. But you know, whatever, we're doing a lot. Credit credit here credit there. So here's what I looked at. I was trying to do I literally looked up my space murder just to see if there ever was one. And there was what it didn't happen in the 90s. Somebody actually committed a MySpace murder in 2003, where I was like, you're a day late in

a dollar short, Mr. MySpace hanging onto MySpace way longer than needed necessary. I also, because somebody suggested on the Facebook page, looked very lightly looked into the Swedish black metal murders, or nor of Norway, sorry, nuts. Oh, summer in Sweden. And I thought, oh, that'd be kind of funny and interesting and whatever. It's so dark. Yeah, it's just a culture of people who are all turned out, right, like, crazy each other. I don't want to support those people. I just, it's, here's the one thing I will say about it that I do support part of the the reason they started burning churches, because they have some amazing really, really old churches. But they were burning them because they had a kind of like, really oppressive Christian culture in those countries that really

fucked up a lot of people. And so that I support. But did they think it through in that way? And like, this is what the message we're sending now is probably just a bunch of fucking, I mean, 20 year olds. It's hard to say because the stories I read around, like there was church arson, but then it went into like, stories that I don't even want to repeat, because they're just, it's just dark for darkness sake. And then they would like record it or they record, you know, it's crazy shit that it's just like, I don't enjoy any of that because it's like, we want the intricacies of fucked up things that have happened in the past. We don't really want to like highlight, highlight people doing things to get attention. It's that's a real fuck you dad feel to all

of their crimes. So I was like, eh, yeah, we did that with to ourselves. We don't need to fucking talk about it with other people. Exactly. Also, you can there's like tons of really good books about it. And you can go in down into that. But that's also the part of it. I'm not interested in the gore. Yeah, I mean, I like the story I like learning about the psychology. The gore is just, you know, whatever. I like acoustic folk rock music murders. And I'm like, when someone from Peachwood Sparks murdered someone, have you ever heard of the Austin City Limits murders? They're insane. All right, so here's what I landed on. Okay. And this this I think this guy has it all because I tried to look I was trying to look for someone that something that would spark a

memory where I'd be like, Oh, I do remember that. And I liked it. So I was looking at San Francisco murderers or San Francisco serial killers. Oh, of course, the zodiac is all over that shit. And you can't get past it. Night Stalker a little bit too. Richard Ramirez was up there for a while. But then I stumbled upon a killer named Joseph Nassau. And so this story has a little of all the things that we like. And it pulls in a murder we've already talked about that he might be responsible for. Oh, shit. There's a lot going on. But here's what basically what happened. When this guy was 76 years old, his parole or probation officers did a random visit at his house in Reno. And because he was like, it was some weapons violation or whatever. And so they got to search

the whole house because he had weapons and ammo. And they found hundreds, if not thousands of photographs of nude women who are posed in very unnatural positions, who appear dead or unconscious with mannequin parts and lingerie strewn about in every picture. So the cops like find this stash, and then they're like, holy shit, we got to really search this house. And they end up finding newspaper clippings with the identification of women, like identification that he shouldn't have. Like, clearly, it's starting to look like serial killer. What do we call them? Evidence? No. I'm just going to keep whenever we forget something. So serial killer, when they get a pride, when they get a thing. Yeah, that's what's surprise. Oh my God, why? Why is this happening?

What does it call when they walk? Oh, not a token token. Is it a token? It's a token. Let's call it a token. Everyone knows what they're looking for. Yes, it's just a little stupid. That's how you get found out, bro. Exactly. But also, and he and he also did it the best way of getting found out. He kept a rape diary. Absolutely. Don't do that. Well, here, we're glad he did though, because he had been doing it since the 50s. Holy shit. And he had these, it was every little interaction he would have with a woman, he would write down in that, in it leading up into these rapes were in his bizarre and strangely casual phrasing of like, picked up a hot redhead, she really fought me a lot of that kind of shit. Yeah. So they go through the years they're going

through, then they find they stumble on this list of 10 women, names and locations. And they start to put together these names and descriptions of these women and locations are starting to match up to missing women in the same town. Can I say that's my dream, like I'm in the wrong, that's my dream job. Is what? Matching that shit up. Being a detective to find those things. Yeah, I'm in the wrong fucking profession. Go on. You mean eating dessert on TV isn't, isn't giving you the same feeling? Shockingly. I don't feel fulfilled and that I'm contributing to society. What if you were a detective, but you still, you had to get even more Botox for some reason, you felt the pressure in your, because I was giving too much away to what are they called to criminals? And

I'm like in the room with them, I'm like, no way. Like, no, you have to get Botox. So you stop, fill your whole face. Yeah. So basically, they start lining these things up. This guy has been raping and murdering and dumping women's bodies since the 70s. So they were like, these are real. These are real. And they basically end up whatever the within the within the same country version of extraditing is they move them, they take them from Nevada into California, because some of these murders happened around San Francisco, basically. And what they come to find out is that Oh, and he referred to his hit that rape journal as his dream diary, detailing his fantasies. And he said that he used the word rape loosely, quote, like how guys talk.

So, so what they start to realize is he's lived in close proximity, like in the same city as where these women have all been taken from and dumped. He's wherever it's happening. He's, he's lived in the same place. I love when they make those connections. It's like a puzzle piece. And it takes a shit ton of legwork of like interviewing people and yes, fascinating. It's so it must be so fucking satisfying. Yeah. So it turns out the other thing that's a detail that's taking place as they as all these facts and evidence on furls is that the women have double initials, same first and last name. We talked about this initials, which is the same as the alphabet murders. So these are the the women that we're talking about here. It's in 80s and 90s.

But in the 70s, there were a series of child murders called the alphabet murders in Rochester, New York, or around there. Yeah, you talked about it. So it was little girls between the ages of 10 and 12. And they all had the same first and last initial, which I have to you. I would be totally have been at risk. So Carmen Cologne age 10 was found in November 18 1971 in Riga, New York. Wanda Walkowitz was 11. She was found April 3rd in Webster, New York. And Michelle Manza was 11. And she was found in November 28 1973 in Macedon, New York. And did they find that he was living there then? They found out that he is a New York state native. And that he was visiting the area in he was fitting visiting relatives in that area at the

same time. But they say that the two cases are not connected. Because these in the 70s, these little girls were prepubescent. And these other women are older and probably prostitutes. Yeah, he only wanted to murder, he wanted to murder women of a certain age, not what the fuck. Yeah, it's like, when you murder a child, people get more outraged about it. So he stopped doing that because people because it was like more obvious people were all over that right. So there's like, well, why don't I murder I can't murder children anymore because it gets too suspicious. Also, he's old at this point. So he was arrested when he was 77. These murders happened when he was in his mid to late 50s. So and also he probably can't get around

little kids as much. But you sure can hire a prostitute anytime you want. Like it's there's a logic problem that I have with it that's so irritating. Because there's and there the other thing was there was DNA found on the last little girl, Wanda. How is there no DNA on the other ones? It seems impossible. Well, they're there, they're, he's proven to have killed these four women that were on his list. And his DNA is on them. But they did find they don't have any DNA on these little girls from the 70s, for the alphabet murders, except for one on Wanda. And his DNA doesn't match what was found on her. Except for my thing is test it again, do something, look further into it. Because it's impossible to me that before there was DNA testing that

like every single murder, like before people thought about leaving DNA, aside from fingerprints, that there has to be a DNA on every crime scene, you know what I mean? Like, and it was just handled wrong or wasn't taken or it was lost or it was destroyed and or it's too old. Yeah, you know, like, before we thought about these things. It's just amazing that that was recently, actually, DNA DNA is as new as the OJ trial. Totally. It's crazy to think about that. Totally. But they did save some things. But it's like, yeah, if this if her body was found on in 1973, then maybe you're going to have some problems with that DNA. But like that, everything else, the cops are saying, yeah, there's those other things are just a coincidence. Well,

is it a coincidence that one of his victims in 1978 was also named Carmen Cologne? Are you kidding me? The same exact name as the first victim in the Rochester ones? Same exact name. I wonder if sometimes psychological profiles that we make, that's like, like psychologists and detectives make of these like, this is what the person is like. This is what they're into, this is what they're after, this is how they are, are like detrimental because it makes them, it makes them narrow-sighted. Yes, the word like near-sighted or far-sighted, flawed in their sight, problematic evidence with seeing evidence. Yeah, because totally that how could that these are so many coincidences you've they have now written off for coincidences. Can't write that

shit off. It's crazy. So the bodies that of the grown women, which this was only seven years later. So the last little girl or less, because the last little girl Michelle in Rochester was found in 1973. Well, in 1977, Roxanne Raghash was found in Fairfax, California, which is like 15 minutes away from Petaluma from where I grew up. You guys have all the murders. We have tons of, nor cow baby. But this girl was only 18. Yeah, that's not an adult. It's, I mean, and also they were saying she, they assumed she was a prostitute, but there was no proof of it. Her parents said she was not. And so it's just a weird police theory. This is a perfect link. This is only five years later. And this girl is like basically his bridge into older women. It's just

and the word prostitute, it's so, it's so like definitive that this person has been selling their puss on the fucking sidewalk. Like that's what that means. You know, like that's what you picture. Yes, instead of like, maybe she was on drugs and like dating a lot of people. But like maybe she was wearing hot pants because it was fucking 1977. But that doesn't make her a quote sex worker. It's a human being that got killed. Yeah. I mean, and yeah, and it's that thing of it makes very clear of like the problematic parts of the word prostitute because it immediately makes you go, doesn't matter. Yeah, doesn't count. She lived a, she lived a high, high risk lifestyle, high risk lifestyle. So that's what she gets. Right. Well, so okay, so this girl was

Roxanne Roxanne was 18. And she was dumped by the side of the road strangled and nude on January 10, 1977. Carmen Cologne, the second one, the older one in California, was found August 13, 1978 on the Carquinas Highway. And she was 22. She was 30 miles away from the first victim. So it was clearly he's in that area. Then in 1981, the body of Shirley Patton, who doesn't have the same initials, but she was also 56. And she washed ashore near the Naval Depot in Tiberon. And Nassau managed the place she used to live. And he also had a photo of her. And he was considered a prime suspect, but then gave investigators elusive answers and was never charged any time in the next 30 years. Duh, bro. Like to speak in the fucking NorCal terms. Duh, bro. Duh. And then the,

a woman named Pamela Parsons in 1993 was found in Yuba County. She was 38. And she also lived near him. And then a woman named Tracy Tafoya was found dead in 1994 in Yuba County. She was drugged, raped, strangled, and her body was left near a cemetery. So he, this guy had pictures. He had descriptions of them, like all the shit. It was just like a lock. He represented himself in court. Of course, I'm sorry, but that means you're fucking guilty of shit. It means you're guilty and it means you're crazy. And so of course, he was convicted of all four murders in 2013. He's in jail. He's, I think he's a, what do you call it, up for the death penalty, but I couldn't find whether or not he's gotten it yet. But that woman, when he was being

tried, the woman who he raped, one of the early rapes in, that was in Berkeley, she was waiting at a bus stop and he picked her up and raped her. And when she went to the police and she said this in court, which is, I just couldn't get out of my mind. When she went to the police to report it, they said, um, they told her that they thought she was just trying to make her boyfriend jealous by making up this story. Can't even. I so that's what we're coming from. That was 50, almost 60 years ago. And this is where we are now. I mean, like, that's the kind of thing we're like, we're coming from a dead stop of cops, not even listening when people are like, repeated rapes in this entire area. There's a reason people have gotten this old piece of

shit has been getting away with murdering women for years and years. But gets me in every, in every case of serial murders or multiple murders or, you know, even, I don't want to, I don't want to say that you have to be murdered to be important, like rapists, you know, because that is devastating to her entire life is when, is the people that are subsequent to them, to the rapists and murders getting paroled early, the people after this person should have been caught or was caught. That's on. That's on the state. And that's on the judge and that, you know, like, you mean like the victims afterwards? Yeah. Yeah. Like that is, those are the people that like,

fuck me up. Is it like that should have been fucking stopped. And the family of the victims that it happened to beforehand, they must feel guilty that, you know, this person didn't stay in jail or this person was never caught. And even though they were like, here's all this evidence, like, it's nightmarish. It's just ridiculous. It's just, it's, it's, because when it's so cut and dried, like this man had all the evidence in his home. Yeah. He got, he's going to jail for the rest of his, you know, very short life, hopefully. But like that it went on for years. If those parole officers hadn't done that search, nobody would have ever known. Those people would have just, it's the same thing about like child abuse cases where they're like, where they're,

the child protection agency is like, nope, they're fine and like close a case. And then the kid dies. And it's like, this is on you. And there's no, there's nothing you can say that gets you out of this. Like, I don't care if your boss was this way. I don't care if you had a huge caseload. But like, well, the problem is they don't, that kind of shit, people, human life is undervalued. Right. So they don't pay people who are supposed to be protecting those voiceless people enough. And they have, they have too many, even though you're right. No, no, I'm wrong. There's, there's no, there's no excuse. It's just like, but we have to start putting money to the things that are important services for people who need help, as opposed to just fucking like,

everything just goes to the one person, we can't get into this shit. This is just crazy. I feel like I'm going to get in trouble for saying that. And I think that social workers are trying so hard and they're working against a bureaucracy that is undervaluing them. And I fucking, I'm sorry. Well, I think, well, no, I think probably the point is that it's this, this system is to blame the system that's supporting, you know, that one person having 30 caseloads. Yeah, it doesn't even make sense. You're right. I feel like I feel like I want to edit that out because I feel like a dick for saying that. And, and teachers should be paid more. I mean, you know, let's, now we're, let's get rid of it. So that's a, that's our friend Joseph

Nassau, the great NorCal and possibly I really, I, I'm going to say it like a detective. I like him for those alphabet murders in the seventies. Oh yeah, I get it. Like you like him. Oh, I like him for it. Like cop style. I agree. I thought you'd like that too, because we've talked about that. No, I do. I like it. I like you for liking that. What's yours? Okay. So, because you're from the year 90s kid, right? Yeah. And this one happened when I was 16. So in 19, in May of 97, right before I turned 17. And so this, this thing that happened, this, the person who did it was someone that like, I would have dated. And I remember, I remember it happening. He was from Southern California, the person who did it. And the girl was from orange, the girl he killed was

from Orange County. And it was such a like, I would have hung out with this guy, you know, like this guy would have been my friend, and it made me realize that the people you think are cool because they're one of you, you don't know who they are at all. And I'll get into it. But so May 25, 1997, Jeremy Strohmeier, who was 18, and David Cash, his friend who was 17, they were at the Prima Donna Resort and Casino in Prim, Nevada, which we've all been to, it's the casino with the giant roller coaster right before you drive into Vegas. Yes. It's fucking cool because it's like, it's like going into a Denny's from the 80s. With a roller coaster that goes through the restaurant. Right. Yeah. And it's just like,

it's like Knott's Berry Farm. It's just like quaint. And it doesn't mean to be, you know. So they're there. They're from Long Beach. At 4am, Strohmeier begins to make, quote, playful contact with seven year old Cherise Iverson, who was roaming the casino alone, which is something that I did. Like my dad took us to Vegas on regular occasion, not really, but he took us a few times and was like, go play in the arcade. And you just fucking walked away. But he didn't do that at 4am. No, not at 4am. 4am is, yeah. So the dad was gambling and drinking. They told him to keep a closer eye on his daughter and he ignored them and told his son to go watch the kid, which is like, my parents were divorced. If like, I had gotten lost,

my mom would have killed my dad. Like, yeah, I get it. And like, it's, it was from the killer being my age to the kid being, you know, something in that situation is like understandable. So Strohmeier, who's being playful with Cherise, they, he leads her into the women's restroom. And while in the restroom, they begin to begin having a playful wet paper towel fight, like jokingly, like he's playing with this, this 18 year old guy is playing with the seven year old girl, like their buddies, you know, and like, when you're a little kid, you like want to make friends with the older kids. And then he leads her into a bathroom. And then his, so this is not that like, this is really troubling to me is that the friend,

last name is Cash, he walks into the restroom to look for his friend Strohmeier, and he peered over from a neighboring stall and saw Strohmeier restraining the girl and threatening to kill her if she didn't stay quiet. Cash told the police that he tried to get Strohmeier's attention by calling his name and tapping him on the head. And Strohmeier stare at him blankly. So do you know what cash did? He walked away. Yeah, he left, which is so troubling to me. Like it's more trouble. It's more troubling those murderous fucking kid whose dad was in prison and his mother was a schizophrenic. The fact that this fucking guy walked away, he ends up, he strangled, he molests and kills her. I don't want to say in a way because it's like,

he, it's so troubling. They find out who he is by putting surveillance camera surveillance video up and people from his high school and long teacher like that's this dude. They surveillance, the cops surveillance his house and identify him. He runs away and he ingests a bunch of drugs and writes a conflic, you know, a suicide note, pretty much confessing to it. Like there's no question during any of this and the trial that he did this. There's no like, maybe he didn't do it. Like he clearly did this. So let's see. So his defense attorney who represented the Menendez brothers. Yeah, weird. The woman. Yeah, Leslie Abramson. He, this, so it's Jeremiah claimed he was high on alcohol and drugs at the time. I didn't remember committing it. And, but apparently he

hoarded pornography, including pornographic images of children and admitted fantasizing about sex with young girls. And in a chat room, which God remember those, he wrote, I fantasize about having sex with five and six year old girls all the time. They couldn't prove the message came for him. But right before the trial, hours before it was going to start, he entered a plea on his behalf. So his plea that he was guilty to four charges, first degree murder, first degree kidnapping, sexual assault on a minor, on a minor with substantial with substantial bodily harm and sexual assault on a minor. That's your plea. Like if that is a first degree murder and kidnapping and is your plea, you are a fucked up individual, you know, like manslaughter isn't what you go for.

Right. Like you go for a fucking first degree and you, and you plead guilty to it. So he was sentenced to four life terms, one for each of the crime he pleaded to, he pleaded guilty to, to be served consecutively. So this motherfucker is never getting out. Do you think that he did that just to get it over with? Like he, he knows he's guilty. He's just basically he's coming in saying, this is all the shit I did. Let's just get this over with. I think it was a death penalty. It was a death penalty case. And he had confessed to it. There was like the confession was admissible in court. It was a death penalty case. I think he knows he would have gotten death for this. So this is his way of staying alive. Okay. So the post trial shit's really interesting to me too.

So Jeremy Strohmeier is just appealing the shit out of it. It really bothers me that this guy is so clearly guilty. There's no conspiracy. There's no fucking question. His friends saw it. His shitty friend saw it. There's like, there's fucking surveillance tapes, but he keeps appealing it instead of fucking. This is what I don't understand about sociopaths is like, just admit your guilt. Like, no, they can't let your, let the family heal from this. They don't care about the family. They don't care about anybody. Don't make them testify every four years. They don't care about those people. But they can't lose. They can't, it's about getting anything you want all the time. It's the sociopathic mind is so fascinating.

Because they don't, there is no mercy and there is no logic beyond how do I get what I want. There's no fault. No. Well, what's interesting is that the fucking David Cash, so Sharice Iverson's mother demanded that Cash, the friend, be charged as an accessory, which like fucking clearly, no, authority stated there was not enough evidence connecting him to the actual crime. So he never got prosecuted. And I remember like frequent news updates of like him going to Berkeley and his fellow students being like, get this fucking kid out of here. Wow. He got into Berkeley. Yeah. So he would, this wasn't some dipshit. No, these were like, these were like hacky sack college kids, both of them. These were like skater college kids

that like we would have been like, like flirting with, you know what I mean? Like, so, but here's what cash says in the weeks following Strowmire's arrest, he says quote, quote, I'm not going to get upset over someone else's life. I just worry about myself first. I'm not going to lose sleep over somebody else's problems. Like he took no responsibility for this. So like, he didn't do it, but he's clearly a sociopath as well. Either that or he's in such an insanely deep denial because it's yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. It's like, that's like saying, it's not my problem where it's like, you just, it's a 100% your problem. There's no, you can't just deny your way out of it. And I fucked up goes so far.

You know? Yeah, but that's like, I should have done something. I'm sorry. It goes so far. But that's not who you're dealing with. I know, I know. And then listen to this shit. This is the craziest shit to me. So his parents were his adoptive parents. They adopted him as an infant. This is cash or no, this is Strowmire the killer. Yeah. In 1999, they sued Los Angeles County and it's adopt adoption workers for $1 million claiming that the social workers deliberately withheld crucial information that would have stopped them from adopting him as an infant. Specifically, they claimed that they were never told that Strowmire's biological mother has severe mental problems, including that she suffered from Schizophrenia and had been hospitalized more than

60 times prior to Strowmire's birth. Shit. However, they state that they continue to support their adopted son. So basically, they were like, he's not ours anymore in the most like indirect way. Like, they're basically like, this isn't what we asked for. Except for it was totally fine up until that point. Yeah. If he had had any wins, they would have been like, it's because we raised him right. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to talk shit on adoption, because I think it's fucking amazing. And I would totally do it. And like, but this is your kid, you can't sue the fucking city for a million dollars because something went wrong when he was fucking 17. Well, also, this is just this seems I would love to know like what what kind of like a tax bracket of people were talking

about. Yeah, because it's like everybody's running to talk about how it's not their problem. It's not their fault. It's not their problem. It's not their fault. It's like, sorry, you guys are ground zero. Yeah, you touched his fucking head. You saw him raping a child. Nobody 100% your problem. Nobody wants to take any responsibility for any part of this. That's crazy. So frustrating, like like remorse is something that you we can all we can all connect with. Remorse is something we can all like understand and feel even even if it's shit that we would never do. It's like, I fucked up. I was, you know, thinking wrong. I was crazy. It wasn't right. And like, yeah, that doesn't get you out of punishment. But it goes so far for so many things. Yeah, but you're talking about you expect

something from people who are fucking child rapists and killers. These aren't these aren't noble moral people in any way. Think of the kind of parents that would sue the city because their son was a murderer like those 17 years too late. You couldn't have raised your kid right if that's your first fucking instinct. Yeah. No, it's no good. I totally remember that story. And I'm it, you know, I'm really glad that you didn't talk about details because I feel like there was a time where I knew the details of what he did to her. And I am glad I can't remember it right now. I remember the news that I remember seeing the surveillance footage on the news. I just want to like talk about this girl and how awful it was for her. And like, it's just so

like the person at the fucking center of this, while these people are fucking getting their appeals and suing the city and saying that like they walked away because they couldn't deal with what was happening. Yeah. And you know, none of it is fair to this fucking kid who didn't understand that father. That's a hugely problematic family. Anybody that's up at 4am at a casino, they didn't. So why doesn't that guy have a room or a car that those kids can be in? Like, it doesn't make sense. Why are you taking your kid to Vegas to begin with? But yeah. And then also four in the morning, no child should be awake. Like that's that should there should be a system in place where if you work at a casino and it's past 2am and you see anyone that looks

younger than 18, there's immediately there's we name names we need, you know, we need driver's licenses, we need action to be taken. Well, the I mean, the end of it is that there's a Cherise Iverson bill introduced after this that provides a fine and possibly jail time for anyone who fails to report a crime of the nature that led to the creation of the bill. So like, unless like if someone dies and you don't tell on them, basically, you could get fined, which is like, fuck you. And then there's increased security in Nevada, casinos, Nevada, and also they've increased security in their arcades and casinos, which is like, well, your security guards could be fucking perverts. So that doesn't really do anything. Don't trust anyone. Yeah, I mean, you got to tighten

up your game. There's not kids in casinos do not mix. I don't care what Circus Circus has told you. My dad took us to Circus Circus as a kid and was like, go play fucking video games. That's what it's built for. Meanwhile, what the fuck? Like it's that there's nothing about that that makes sense. In the in the thing we talk about a lot, which is like, I should have been killed mode. Yeah, I should have been kidnapped. I mean, I was a really cute kid. But like, you were pretty precious. I've seen pictures. Pretty darling. I should have been kidnapped and killed. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I would have been if I was like, we had kittens in the van. I'd be like fucking kid. And even now I'd be like, kitten. Maybe next week should be that could have been me.

Yeah. I have that's the one I wanted to do today. And I was like, I'm so excited. I got my 90s murdered. And I was like 1985. Let's do that next week. Okay, next week is like, I should have. That should have been me. This could have been me. This could have been me or should have or whatever should have been. Yeah, this will be no this. No, when I write my autobiography and lie, it's going to be me. This totally almost could have maybe happened to me. Oh, I have a I have Glennis's story, but we've gone so long now. I feel like should we save it for next week for next week? Let's let's have a let's have a memorial real quick. Yeah. So somebody wrote on the Facebook page very earnestly, which I understand the

day that Michelle McNamara died. They posted a thing kind of saying Karen, Georgia, you need to do an episode special episode about Michelle McNamara. And I understand where that was coming from. But I guess the thing I need that person to understand and everybody to understand is Michelle was a real person that I knew. And she was a friend. I've been friends with her husband for almost 30 years. It's not the kind of thing that's very easy to turn around and be and podcast about us if it's some piece of news. It's for me, it is a personal loss. I mean, in the way that I have a friend who is now a widower with a seven year old child, it's it's such a massive tragedy. And Michelle was such a brilliant woman. She was such a talented writer. She was so into

everything that we're all into. And she made such great contents. She she was an author, she wrote these really cool articles, you can find her old blog was called true crime diary, which we've talked about on the podcast before. But she also it's very easy to find her the article she wrote about the Golden State Killer, which was her terminology that she she renamed the East area rapist and the original Night Stalker the Golden State Killer. And she was writing a book on it. And it's just it's such a massive loss. And it's such a real thing that's happening in our lives that it's not something that we can just kind of turn around and and present as if it's something distant, because it's not so we I loved Michelle and and I love Pat and then it's

it's just a incomprehensible tragedy that is the kind of shit you just never want to happen. And that happens. So hug the people that you love, tell the people that you love that you love them, live the life that you want to live and and just be cool to people, I guess is what I would say. That was beautiful. Let's end it on that. And thanks for listening, guys. Thanks, guys. Well, always stay sexy. Always stay sexy. Bye.