My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 145 - Live at the Microsoft Theater in Los Angeles

Episode Date: November 1, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover the satanic panic of McMartin Pre-School and the Mannequin at the Carnival. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook, and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hi, everyone. Happy Halloween.

Hi. We have a big, exciting announcement for you. That's right. We're here at the Microsoft Theater about to go do our huge live show for 7,000 people. No big deal. Nope. But first we wanted to tell you guys that we are announcing our 2019 Winter Tour. Yeah.

We're going to go to a bunch of cities we've never been to before. That's right. It's up Hawaii. Yeah. Among other places. That's the only one we can think of. Pre-sale goes on November 5th. That's right.

First tickets pre-sale go to the fan cult. So if you're not a member, go to myfavoritmurder.com, join the fan cult, there's a bunch of other bonuses. And keep your eye peeled because we want to see you in 2019. Yeah. We'll see you then. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered.

Bye. Bye. Have a nice day. What's up Los Angeles? What's up Los Angeles? Wow, we're Lady Gaga. Spooky Halloween. Oh my God, my heart is racing.

It's just racing. Listen to that shit. Wow, there's a lot of you. Cheeses. Yeah. Thank you for coming on Halloween. On Halloween of all nights. I feel like that means most of you guys aren't parents of small children.

Yeah, us too. Thank you for doing that. Good of you. So, we should explain our cost. Yes. That would be a good idea. It's not what you were expecting, maybe. Us either.

Would you say? It's not what they were expecting. I swear to God, I just heard footsteps over here. I'm not joking. An icy cold hand touched my shoulder and said, Do you want a pretzel? No, thank you. As you know, George and I met at a Halloween party.

That's right. Four years ago? Something like that. Hosted by a friend, Matt McCarthy. Matt McCarthy is in the house tonight. He loves wrestling. Of the We Watch Wrestling podcast. Yes, that's right.

And this is essentially what we were dressed as. And there were 7,000 people there. So, it was such a crazy party, you guys. You were a nurse. I was... My mic is insanely loud. I was the Ebola nurse, ladies and gentlemen. That's right.

You remember a time when Ebola was the scariest thing happening in this country? Remember? Just a wonderful, wonderful time. What I wouldn't give for Ebola. I wouldn't give it in for today's state. Just a tiny sip of Ebola to make everything else go away. Am I right?

But mostly I picked this outfit because... Or this costume because they used to sell scrubs at CVS. So, it was like the easiest costume in the world. And also, it's not a costume, really. Kind of like wearing very light cotton sweats to a party. Which is my thing. But with pockets. But with pockets.

Yeah. That's right. And rubber gloves. I put those in there. They didn't come with it. Those are my personal ones. And then, of course, Georgia. Well, listen.

Okay. I'm just dressed as Glenn Danzig. Thank you from the band Nisfits. And Vince was dressed, we were a couple's costume. He was dressed as Henry Rollins. It was this adorable, you know, whatever. It was a lot more punk rock. Because I wasn't in front of 7,000 people.

And then, when I went backstage, I was like, I don't want to look like Squiggy all night. So, I have my bangs. Listen, we did it in my favorite murder way. Which is kind of half-assed. But we're like, you'll like it. You'll like it. Who cares?

Who cares? I feel like all of Halloween is just this weird day of sweaty scramble. And then you just slowly begin to resent your friends for some reason. It's like, these fucking assholes making me do this. Yeah. I want to stay home and eat candy.

Like I do every night. But no. They make me go stand at a party. So, if you don't know the rest of the story is, I showed up to this party alone. Which is simply, I don't know how I did it. I don't know why I did it, really. I think usually someone has to say to Karen,

if you don't come, I will not be friends with you anymore. Oh, it was Matt McCarthy. That's right. It was his party. It was his party. And he threatened my life. So, I was like, fine. You matter to me.

So, I showed up. And then almost immediately told a story about watching a car mow down 30 people, which really did happen to me. But I was kind of telling the story as a brag. And to get like pity and attention, it was a weird move for the beginning of a party. Very sober move. And I watched the three people I was talking to

who had just smoked a hint of pot. All their faces dropped and turned gray. And I was like, oh no, I've done it again. And then from behind them. But like this. This little hand. Tell me everything. Because all I want to talk about is parties and horrible,

terrible things. And so I got so excited that this person was doing that. And she saved my life. And then we started a podcast. Yeah. Thank you. What we're saying is go to parties. Go to parties.

And tell terrible, terrible stories when you're there. Go to parties. Be nauseating. See what happens. Yeah. Anything can happen. Anything can happen. Should we have some photos of ourselves when we dressed up

as kids for Halloween? I have to say this. We've never played to seven fucking thousand people before. You know who else has it? Any podcast ever. The largest live podcast ever. Yeah. What the fuck?

It's on. It's on. It's bananas. And now, you know, the people from things my dad fucked are going to be like, I have to do that too. Go ahead. So we were like, what if, because we actually came here to see, I'm sure you've seen the commercials for the Chinese

dance troupe, Shen Yun, we came here to see them, to see that show. We were over there. And we, we were like, this is going to be beautiful and culturally interesting, you know. And it was a cult. It was a cult. Literally a cult.

And we, we like bailed at intermission and people tried to grab us and pull us back in. And we went to the yard house where we, that's our cult. Never, never been happier to be in the motherfucking yard house. I was like, yay, frat boys. Oh my God. What a miracle. But as we were sitting there, we knew the show was booked.

It was, but it was a really long time ago. And I, the whole time it just ended up going, how the fuck are we going to do this? We don't, we don't have a dance troupe. We don't have a, we don't have a cult, but actually we did. And that turns out. That's exactly right. So, so we've just done a lot of pre-production and we thought

we'd show you some pictures to kind of get through the top path of the show. Dazzle You, Shen Yan style. So what these are, I think is mine first. I think yours is first. We're just going to go and we're going to show you our favorite Halloween costumes of life. Can we see the first one?

What? Karen. Now, drink it in, drink her in. That's so cute. Baby Karen. That looks itchy. It is. It is.

It was the world's worst, this is proof that my parents hated my fucking guts right there. It was a torture device for a five-year-old because that netting, so it was my cousin Lisa's costume from the netcracker from eight years previous. And underneath the intensely barbed wire-ish brown netting on the outside, I'm wearing brown tights and a brown leotard, which as we all know when you're the kind of kid

that has to pee every 10 minutes is probably the worst outfit you could wear. But we went to, now I'm having recovered memories, we went to, I think I like the hat part though, it's comforting. You can tell by my smile, but I'm going, wonderful time. I've always been very photogenic. After this, we went to a 4-H Halloween party because I'm from a farm, remember?

That's right. 4-H, it's like a group for kids that walk around in fields all day long and don't have friends. So we went to this 4-H party and it was in a big barn, I mean 5-year-old me, when we walked in it was like Halloween wonderland. They had decorated it and there was like hay bales and there was candy stacked all over the place. I was just like, where have we come to?

So they had to guess how many jelly beans are in the jar contest. And when I walked up, the girl, some 15-year-old that was taking all the guesses, wrote my name down and goes, how many jelly beans do you think are in the jar? And I go, 15, and she goes, 500, OK, and writes that down and then I fucking won. Yeah.

She knew. She knew what I needed. She was like, that girl looks really uncomfortable. I'm going to make her a knight. I had her jar like this, I rode home in the car. Well, yeah. I don't even like jelly beans, but I won. And she still has it today.

It's going to be a prize at the end of the night, moldy jelly beans. All right. Let's see yours. OK. Let's see mine. That's not it. OK.

Ew. Wow. There she is. Are you baked Alaska? No, I'm like a 1950s person. But look at my shoes in the carpet. Oh. Have you seen dirtier shoes?

Oh, you had been gardening that day. Yeah. Is that what it was? No, that's just what my life was like. Just the dirtiest shoes. Always disgusting. That's really good. Yeah.

That's it. Was it a grease? Were you trying to do a grease? Sure. We were just really into like, oh, you know what we were into at the time? La Bamba. We had just seen that movie. And I just wanted to be like a grease art style.

Yes. Soche. And so I dressed like this, but I refused to get on a plane. Because I thought I was going to crash and die like in the movie La Bamba. You had a flight that night? What? Yeah. So that's that.

She looks stoked. I mean, she's probably so sugar high at that moment. Of all the movies you told me, you know my favorite movie as a kid? Fucking La Bamba. It was like, there's so much story and it really happened. It's so sad, but also a huge victory in a lot of ways. Yeah. That's that.

Oh, I have a photo to show you. I dressed someone up today. So someone on our last weekend in the Bay Area, someone makes costumes for cats. Her name is Maddie at Miss Maddie Makes at Etsy. And she gave me something for Elvis. So I put it on him and he hates my guts now, but I had to do it for you. Here we go. Let's see.

Oh, that's. Yeah. It's a cookie monster hat. This is so degrading. It's not right. They don't pets don't like this. They don't like it. He loves it.

He loves it. Look at the look on his face and that's just his face. He's about to take out one of your corneas. That's just his face. Look at how happy he looks. His ears are flat against his head. I know. Vince, when I brought him out, Vince was like, I thought there were ear holes and I'm like,

there are. His ears are just all the way. See his ears. Look at him. He does look exactly like the cookie monster though. He really does. It's uncanny. Truly.

Oh, it made me so happy. He took the hit for you. He did. Every time people are like, look, my little dog is an elephant. It's like your dog is pissed off. Right. Don't be so mystified when he shits on your new duvet next week. It's A plus B.

Right. And we have one more photo of a child in a Halloween costume. Okay. It's Steven. That's right. Let's have him explain it to us. Oh, yeah. Steven.

There he is. Oh, yeah. Get out here. Yay. Say hi. I'm free. This is who he was. This is who he was.

There we go. It really is. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free.

I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. It really is him. Take this off so we can proof that we didn't murder you. There it's Steven.

Yay. That's you. That's me. Oh, yeah. So cute. That's my sister. She's dressed as a witch. Oh, that's what it is.

Steven, do you have any memories from that day? I feel like I got really sweaty inside that costume how you doing right now on that side that costume I'm a little I'm a little parched in here. It's but you know, it's cozy It's like pajamas and show them what it has All right, thanks Stephen We're gonna have him cut that whole part out Stephen oh, this is my favorite murder the podcast This is Karen Kilgarov, this is Georgia hard start

Thank you so much. Thank you Um, yeah, this is that out of here. Yeah Please It's just it's just weird you're being so good. We were really prepared for like insane drunken screamy I'm like, I'm a pirate talk to me. Yeah, you can do it now if you want to yeah one now Get it out. We can't understand anything you say anyway when you scream I think that's the thing people don't understand when they scream at us from the audience We can't hear what you're it sounds like you're yelling about leaves and trees and it's like oh, there's an arborist here. That's rad

It's really strange, but thank you so much for being you know, we're stoked Oh, we have a surprise rug from the Microsoft Theater. Yeah, they made us a rug Can you see it you're too flat don't stand up Says look and listen It's gorgeous. There's There's all decorations on the sign. Oh Sweet shot. Is there a drone in here? How are they getting that shot? Oh That's my doggy. It's your dog and it's my cat. She's gonna be livid

Look at it, I love it. There's a telephone call your dad. You're in a cult got it It's like someone listens. It's like they pay attention to it I know we're not used to it usually we get to a venue and and the like the grizzled like people who work there are like What's a podcast and then they're like it's two women and then they're like there's so many women in the audience And we're like absolutely, yeah And then afterwards when they hear everyone's screaming and they know that we sold out they're like you guys should come back We love podcasts now We're changing everyone's mind. Yeah one long talking show at a time

It's just two women talking can why Should we sit down is it time? Yeah, look at these These are fucking high-class chairs, I mean truly never in the history of our live shows Also, this is like a backgammon table. It's a little backgammon. That's so classy like checkers or chess. I guess While we talk we could do so many get your Yeah, that shouldn't go in there. Oh This is a true crime comedy podcast everyone just so you know they know they know anyone who is you know

Invited along because they had nothing to do on Halloween Yeah, I bet I bet there's a lot of drag along tonight probably they were promised dinner Welcome Yes, my mom's boyfriend for example He's been with us since the beginning he has he's a total MFM head We always like to warn people though because it's staff or you know partners or whoever people that might not Listen to the podcast. They don't know What's happening or why and so we just like to explain at the top that this is

True crime combined with comedy Which some people actually take offense to or they think that that's inappropriate that you shouldn't talk about those two things together and we do and Want to Because that's how we talk and that's actually how most people talk about horrible things Life is equally as horrible as it is wonderful and you get to talk about it However, you fucking want so if you're offended you can get the fuck out Doesn't really apply to this show where people really busted their ass to come. Yeah to the micros pay for parking paid for parking

Thanks to all you parkers out there. Oh Big up. Thank you parking your ass off just for us every parking everywhere. It's just Oh, yeah, I mean, does anybody here come to LA live just to chill out and like season pass holder Oh, just to see the lights at night. I just love to get a bite at the yard house. It's my favorite See my friends at the yard house. Mm-hmm. I go up to the lucky strike. Yeah a few just fucking bowl with some superstars of LA And I don't know. It's just I can be myself at LA live. Yeah It's like it's like my level of parking payment is like where I like it. Yeah I know my car is safe. I you know, sometimes like, oh, yeah, you put your credit card in and paid $2 for parking

Yeah, I want to pay $98 That's right. What I it's how I feel most myself. Yeah. Yeah Do you go first or do I go first? I think you do. Is that right Steven? Steven, you're gonna have to I went first Steven's backstage strip naked out of that dinosaur costume You know through our shit I have to say to that Vince my husband slash art tour manager slash kind of Karen's husband too at this point a little bit I get a touch of it. That's pretty nice Looking into it. He's been hiding his costume from me all week

Oh, so he said that he brought us out and then he was like, I'm gonna go backstage and get my costume He gave me like a warrant. Don't go and look in my closet. Don't open packages that aren't yours. So either he's hiding a body Yeah, and or he's got a costume going on that. I don't know what it is yet Do you is he gonna come out like when he feels like it? Yeah, he'll come out when he you know like he normally does but he'll be dressed as God knows what okay nervous Okay scared. Well, I think it's perfect for Halloween Yeah, okay. Is anyone trick-or-treating in this audience tonight? Just gonna walk around and beg for candy

Someone's passing out candy. They set it up so that you can Some ladies handing out candy don't fucking eat that candy How many times do we have to tell you people? Oh? Oh a lady's giving candy or her eyes really close together. Does she have full eyebrows? What are you don't do that? This isn't a safe place. This is not a safe space. There's no safe spaces Don't you let your guard down? Just because you're amongst friends Um, you know what we'll do you can start at your first picture. We'll see who

That's fun. That's right. Okay. All right, so We decided to do interesting stories That are just about weird. It's Halloween. Listen look We're doing we didn't want to be restricted to the city We wanted to develop out into the theme of what does Halloween mean to you and to me? It means the satanic panic Specifically the daycare sex abuse mass panic of the McMartin trial

That's what you're doing. Yeah Shit girl y'all ready for this. Yeah Okay, the majority of this may all of this I got from a great article From the website box by a woman named Aja Romano. So fucking great writing I'm gonna just screw it completely up right now with my Alright, so everyone remembers the Reagan era, right Karen. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was like we're living it a lot of red Dresses dresses belted epic right at the waist. Yes Like if you had a boxy waist, you were fucked. Oh

Truly shoulder pads everywhere. Oh, just widen it out get them up there. Look like a scarecrow Well, it was also a time of population growth Urbanization and the rise of a double income family meaning your mom had to get her ass to work, right mom? Janet! She remembers that. Janet! That sucked! Okay So it necessitated a lot more daycares to be open and that was going on and everything and it freaked people who were obsessed with nuclear families fucking Fundamental religious people lost their fucking shit over this. They were like the family, you know, think of the children and all this And also at that time there was this fear of unknown the unknown

so there that's when the milk carton children on milk carton started and stranger danger became this big thing and The idea that like evil was lurking around every corner, right? It was crack aids. It was not a good time That's right. I was there for all of it. Oh nuclear annihilation anyway And through it all our good friends of the podcast the Christian fundamentalists And sponsor of tonight's show, it's right And their literal belief in angels and devils like you guys know like they fucking literally believe in the devil, right? Okay, more on that later. Excuse me. What? I totally believe in the devil. I think he is so special

What if I just got hit by a lightning bolt right now? I like her bed by the devil by the devil. He doesn't do lightning bolts. Okay. That's the j-man upstairs Yeah devil stuff would be like all of a sudden my neck would go all the way back Right I'd be you'd be like are you okay is your neck and they like Yeah, but that's also the symptoms of you having a seizure. Yes or no Well, I am a witch so Oh, that's where it's all from this whole time. We could have been having so much fun. Okay So fundamentalist preachers like good friend of the podcast Jerry Falwell hmm and his moral majority

They gained prominence across the country because they were they were preaching this literal Fire and brimstone style of Christianity fucking wobbly blah calm down everyone enter Enter the satanic panic Everyone's favorite panic. I think I like manic panic. It's more fun for the air sure But we don't have to pick favorites right now. We kind of do okay By the mid 80s a wave of though. Oh my god. Amazing. Amazing. Please go on YouTube later tonight and find the Videos that seminars tutorials and educational videos aimed at authorities and religious fanatics Teaching them like cops and therapists and preachers and born again Christians teaching them what to look for when

When dealing with Satanists, I have a photo from the law enforcement guide Legit this is oh, hello walking through the park This video is a fucking treasure and I highly recommend you watch it It's called the law enforcement guide to satanic cults. This is fucking real. Also, that is not the right way to make a fucking penegrin Yes or no Yeah, also whose side is he on I know I don't I think he's on You too side. He's like he's the first cop Satanist. I've ever seen in my life

You can trust him because he's got a fucking mullet He's Tom Petty stuntman Why does Tom Petty need a stuntman so many questions so many questions remember the video where he cut the girl up because she was cake Yes, that's gonna be my reason. I Mean truly amazing stuff. Okay, so everyone's losing their shit over Satan Well, I'll be blah. Okay, the media of course too was like let's get up on this and scare the shit out of everyone ratings jump, right, so It's it soaks the fuel and misconceptions surrounding the cult practices in 1988 our good friend Heraldo Rivera. Yes

made a made a Documentary that went on TV. It was called devil worship and I need to say in his voice Does devil worship exposing Satan's underground? It became the highest rated televised documentary To air up into that point people were like let Heralda tell me everything. I trust that mustache Yeah, if anyone knows about the devil, it's that motherfucker and Vince unprompted told me that when he was a little kid when this came on so he was like 10 He watched this documentary scared the shit of them the next morning He woke up with the flu and thought that the devil had possessed him. Oh, that's essentially what it did to everyone in America

Except for me because I was so drunk. I didn't know what was going on 88. Oh, that was my prime wine cooler time You had no time for Satan. No, I was Bartels and James only Okay, and then but but but but but okay all these accusations of satanic ritual abuse came around They were attached to a string of daycare centers throughout the 80s because people got really into I don't know. They just listen. It's complicated There's lots of reasons so for some reason daycares they thought that they were Bringing all these people who worked at daycares who were like all I want to do when I grow up is take care of children They thought that they were somehow trying to

Melissa yes, okay So thank you that brought about the daycare sex abuse mass panic and among the many Prosecutions many many prosecutions of satanic ritual abuse and daycares was the McMartin trial Which became the largest longest and at a price of 15 million in In 1983 money, which today is 2.3 million. Thank you. Oh wait, I went down Right they were having a lot of money damn it. It was a hundred million bags of cocaine In today's in that money. I got so nervous for stage math. It's scary. I panicked. I'm sorry you satanic panicked Maybe it was the devil the devil made me do bad math

That's what it is Lord Lord do it do a thingy do it. There you go That's the one that's the Catholic one that's how you know Okay So it began in 1983 when a parent of a child who attended the McMartin preschool in Manhattan Beach, California That's right tasteful. That was a tasteful yell. Yeah, you know right over there a 39 year old woman named Judy Johnson Okay, she notices that her two and a half year old son had some Issue listen, how do I say this?

He had some butt troubles Okay, he had a itchy bottom got it Her mom the mom took him to a doctor to make sure everything was okay The doctor's like he's fine and she was like well, I'm obsessed with Satanism. I think Like her Aldo Rivera, so you're wrong doctor So she insisted that he wasn't there's something wrong with him and something going on even though he also said there wasn't I mean, he was two and a half years old. How much can he say? You know, it's like he's like mom. My butt's fine. Yeah This is normal stuff

But she would she ignore the doctor and on August 12th She called the police to say that her son had been sodomized by a teacher at the McMartin preschool The daycare he had been attending for two weeks and by the way was a daycare Okay, we're later gonna find out that Judy Johnson is has some mental issues sure We knew I know yeah, so She told me investigators that her son her two and a half year old son said that a McMartin teacher named Ray Bucky Taught him to play doctor and forced him to wear women's clothes. Oh the horror And that he had like molest been molesting him and that he said that other parents had said similar abuse stories

So they listened to this woman. They believed everything she said Ray Bucky is a 25 year old He is the only male teacher at McMartin. It's this like it's been around for like 30 years It's just really well respected preschool Everyone loves them there in the age 1995 HBO made for TV movie Indictment the McMartin McMartin trial. He's played by Henry Thomas. Oh Who is as an adult? No, no, no the teachers played by him right who is the boy from ET. Yes

What did you think I meant? I thought you meant like Elliot as a little boy played the little boy Why did you say on okay? I get it cuz it's cuz it's Elliott. I don't know it's adorable I don't they make you say on when you talk about ET. I Thought you were saying all about the act but adult actor and I was like what no, you know what? It was the wrong response now that I think about it. I Need to come back into my body and start doing better math and responding more accurately To what's being said Why I

Was thinking about how fucking boxy scrubs are and like this is like You know how like made well is doing shirts right now that are like fucking 15 feet wide and you're like How am I supposed to wear that I tits like this is It's just I'll pay more attention. Oh If only if you don't mind If it wouldn't bother you may I I only type this up and print it up for you Oh, I only worked on this for 30 minutes. No, that's not true We have a photo of our friend right for a Ray Bucky. It's uh, there he is

Obviously, that's him in trial. So spoiler alert. Let's go to trial Okay, he's like this fucking soft. Yes, that's not a happy face. No so he Was the grandson of the owner of the McMartin preschool her name is Virginia McMartin She's 76 and played by Sada Thompson Sadie Sada Thompson. I don't know. Oh, oh, just she's from the theater She had founded the school in 1966 and until this accusation the school had a stellar reputation So the same could not be said of Judy Johnson the mother She was a deeply troubled woman. She was an alcoholic with a history of mental illness, which I'm like who among us isn't

But she was like Problematic, you know, I mean who among us but like when you're drunk Yeah, and a little fucked up in the head you get theories and then you're like, you know what? I'm gonna put this in my diary. Yeah, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna take this to the public right now Yeah, you know you say and said I'm going to scream this Everyone and then they're gonna believe me And she's at the time she was going through an ugly divorce and so not only did she accuse Bucky of this molesting molesting her son. She also accused her ex-husband, which didn't come to fruition and

In September investigators set out to find more evidence against Bucky They took him into prison and before any files were charged or anything They they did a really rational calm thing of sending a Letter to 200 parents of children who were and have been students at the McMartin school Oh, it's people who had graduated from anyone who's ever been there. They sent them all a letter and In it they asked among other things. They said Ray Bucky has been arrested for potentially molesting a child Don't calm down. Don't worry. Everything's fine And then they said quote, please question your child to see if he or she has been a witness to any crime

Or if she he or she has been a victim Uh-huh our investigation indicates that possible criminal acts include guys ready for a fun list All sex fondling of genitals buttocks or chest area and sodomy Possibly committed under the pretense of taking a child's temperature also Photos may have been taken of the children without their clothing and then they were like, please keep this to yourselves Please don't panic. I'm not fucking kidding. This is totally it all happened. Go ahead I kind of couldn't understand was the first thing on that list horse sex. No orl Got you

Yes, no, I know what that is. I do We have a photo of it. No Stop it. All the lights go out. Yeah Fuckin that's MFM after dark Look for us on Cinemax The letter also noted that the teacher might have forced the children to pose naked for photo for pictures I already said that the message didn't at all send the parents into a fucking panic No, I wrote it's at the end of that letter. It said and maybe anything else you've ever feared in your life

Yeah, the parents put it down and immediately started screaming in their child's faces asking if they've been molested and the children were all Reacted calmly and and you know, yeah, I'm sure it went great I said that they didn't didn't make them scream ask their children if they'd ever been molested so immediately you have these parents who are in a panic and these children that they are scaring the crap out of who don't understand what's going on And so the DA turned to Children's Institute International This is an organization that works with abused children to interview the McMartens They like they interview children who have been molested and that sort of thing

And so they hire them to talk to the McMartens students and see if there's any you know any basis behind the accusations Unfortunately But the Institute's like a head named key McFarlane is this woman And who's a little fucking crazy yourself? so Well, because she was like she got out of college and she was like what do I want to do with my life? Unfortunately, she didn't go to college. Oh, she had a welder certificate. That was the extent of her education Yeah, a welder certificate like in flash dance. That's hot. Why wouldn't she stay doing welding? Who knows? That's how crazy she is

Oh girl, I know No, even like a license 101 shit licensed psychotherapist had no psychological or medical training Okay Problematic again fucking the 80s need to go to jail. Yeah, they did they did But don't worry. She only had to examine and interview a handful of kids who would come forward after this letter Came about only four hundred children Mm-hmm. So don't worry So she and two other unqualified assistants were allowed to conduct their investigations

They famously used a native anatomically correct dolls, you know like show me on this doll Where the bad man touched you and then I think we have a photo of K. Let's convert key I mean, let's see her photo. I think yeah Yeah, that's brought that's problematic a bald eagle That's the problem. This is I'm just saying it doesn't Look at these monsters. I know and then she would do this thing where she'd be like that back there And there's nothing there There's no face there that hasn't been a doll like that even 25 years

Thank you so much. Thank you. That's my character There hasn't been a blank like that around here and now it's 25 years, which isn't that long It's not that long. I don't know. It's still my favorite one of my favorites followed followed closely by drunk Karen She's here. She'll make an appearance tonight And then I'm gonna have a ladder rolled out and do my one-woman show. It's gonna be a so good Okay, so they were this fucking chick and there's like transcripts of it where she's just like hey Billy All your friends said that Mr. Bucky touched you. Are you stupid? I literally said are you stupid? Or do you know that this happened like I'm not kidding you know, I don't think that happened and they're like

Well, I think you're lying to me or you're just dumb. I swear. She was just like Be rating them tell she got the answer. She wanted. Jesus fucking Christ. It's absolutely right And was it the kind of thing of like she's like I need to do my work No one else of like a responsible adult gets to be in the room Well, they everyone believed it everyone thought that this was really happening I mean everyone believed her and when she pulled out the bald eagle and crocodile puppets No one was like, you know what? Let's take a pause and regroup in the conference room That's how they did like childhood

Psychology and therapy back then as you act shit out But she don't like lead the witness who's a fucking three-year-old child into into being like yeah You know what now that you mention it and hey, let me read you some of the shit that came that they ended up saying You also don't lead a child into just a fucking full-on insult to their face, right? dummy These extremely coercive interview processes led to false memories among children meaning children are I mean We all know here children are liars who no one has one here, right? Because otherwise you'd be home with them

Children are liars. They love lying as much as they love Halloween candy They're both delicious So And then it led to highly fantastic claims of abuse Directed at the entire staff at McMartin. Hi, sir. Where are we preschool out of 400 children high school? the interviewers ended up Coming out and saying that 359 of them had been abused

Okay, buh-buh-buh-buh-buh. All right around around among the many outlandish claims that children made in the case It were that the daycare owners would flush them down toilets, right? into secret underground tunnels fun under this tiny little school That led them to to transport them to ritual ceremonies That teachers like richly sacrificed animals in front of the kids Clubbed a horse to death with a baseball bat. No No, don't worry. It didn't fucking happen How did the horse get down the toilet?

No, seriously Just someone asked one fucking question number one question number one How small was that horse? Can I see that horse? Can I feed that horse a carrot? Because that's the cutest fucking horse of all time. Absolutely like they Even then I don't think it would fit down a toilet like let's think rationally people Let's think about toilet. Yeah

Let's get one out here. Come on out That they sacrificed a baby in a church so like in the middle of the day in preschool They were like kids were going to a church will have you home by nap time grab your cloaks. It'll be fine Made the children drink blood and that the teachers dressed up as witches and legitimately flew through the air So these everyone's like, oh my god. I knew that fucking Jerry Falwell was telling the truth He said no one ever um and took the kids to orgies at airports and car washes Which everyone knows is the best place to go for an orgy Because you're just immediately clean walking through a car wash. That's right

I'm Is it like at the southwest gate? How do you at the airport? How do you at the airport? Has anyone ever at the airport how? You know what? I'm my horniest is that when I'm at an airport. Yeah. Oh, you're like look at it chilies, too You know what I love Satan no So after six, okay, I mean this goes on so long. I'm not gonna also I just want to say Clearly they were led because there's so many ideas here that are not preschool level children ideas

It's like what three-year-old talks about the fucking airport. Yeah Yeah, oh one kids like I love a car wash and she's like you were molested at a car wash No, what's that you say? Yeah, but can I have candy? Okay. Yeah, I'll do what you say Good job dummy It's the only part of this story I like So essentially though all these charges are dropped with with the other teachers, but they're all brought it's a six-year fucking Trial six years of this while they're in prison the whole time Including so it was only after a while. It's only Ray Bucky and his mom Peggy

Martin Bucky, let me show you a photo of this fucking Satan worshipping psychopath. I Mean I know that monsters are hiding among us, you know, they look like us They look like everyday fucking people, but I bet you anything She's not into Satan You know what she's into making you lasagna That's all she wants to do That's what she's at court. Jesus if you bring an afghan to court there should be a rule that you're innocent immediately Get out of here. You're like see I knitted it myself. Yeah, ma'am. Get me my gavel. I have to get you out of here

I'm glad I brought this stethoscope out here is a good idea. It was worth it. It was so good so After six years of investigation and litigation the case ultimee is Goes away due to a lack of utter evidence the original accusing parent member our friend Jill. I do she's eventually diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic Our investigate and then the investigation techniques used by the Children's Institute our friend key We're thoroughly discredited by the psychological community after six years and finally in 1990 The little old lady Peggy is acquitted and Ray Bucky eventually had all charges dismissed as well The jury was like what have we been doing for six fucking years?

These poor people then they found out that the Children's Institute Was just a spiral notebook that lady had in the back of her car She's like I have ideas about fucking everybody's life up and toilets And toilet horses She was like oops, this was supposed to be a novel of fiction I fucked up and I brought the wrong notebook for six years. She was actually she was supposed to write Harry Potter But she fucked it up. She fucked it up. She got selfish Then da da da da da they got lucky though because this happened all over I mean think of the fucking West Memphis 3

It's the same thing with the satanic panic And in fact there were two owners this married couple of a preschool in Oak Hill, Texas Who had similar charges brought against them, but they spent? 23 years in prison yeah before being released in 2013. Yeah, that was a couple of years ago you guys Despite no evidence ever found that they had done anything they'd been accused of I remember seeing that on I think it was a 60 minutes Maybe and it was you could tell they purely did it because they didn't like the look of them It was like you could tell the people that were in charge were like oh get them You know yeah, that guy has long hair. Yeah, is that kind of thing? Well, were they wrong? No, well kidding. They were wrong, okay?

McMartin preschool building in Manhattan Beach was raised in 1990 and The satanic ritual abuse claims relied essentially that was found to rely on overzealous law enforcement upstands Substantiated what did you say? Substantiated statements from children and false memories implanted during therapy and Above all coercive and suggestive interrogation by therapists and prosecutors again and car washes Yeah, shout out to aja romano from blocks for all her amazing information And that is the daycare sex abuse mass panic of the McMartin trial I mean that was a sweaty one. That was a sweaty one. That was rough stuff. Oh, sorry. I keep doing that Jesus Christ, okay?

Thank you I'm going to now tell you guys great job by the way. Thank you. Thank you. That was very very Very upsetting Just like we like on how low we I'm gonna tell you guys all about the mannequin at the carnival The what it's my new book of poetry the mannequin at the carnival Okay, this all takes place at an old amusement park in Long Beach called the pike

Yeah Either someone's from Long Beach or they're getting stabbed right now That was Blood curdling that scream although if you're from Long Beach, you would kind of blood curdle scream for yourself I would think you would you got to Okay And the turn of the century Long Beach, you know how I like to talk about the turn of the century Karen will not shut up about the turn of the century Long Beach

So the big thing to do Southern California obviously was go to the beach Long Beach had this big old pier I think we have a picture and they had a bath house called the plunge. Oh, yeah, look at it Look at them. So this is what people who are dressed From their neck all the way to the tips of their toes They'd love to haul their asses on down to the beach and stand in the sun for hours Nothing is more fun than just slowly strolling and uncomfortable tiny shoes. Yep Course it's and of course everyone's wearing their funeral blacks

Uh-huh important. I bet everyone smells so bad. Yeah, it's like powder and decay and BO and yeah so There was a red car line that went from Los Angeles down to Long Beach So people could get out of the city for the day and then go down here and and chill out on the beach Because they can't go to the beach in LA anyway Don't think about it So It gets so popular

They start adding there's a carnival concessions rides they string lights above the walkway Charming right they call it the walk of a thousand lights This was back when lights were a big deal. Oh, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, okay. They're like Electric line is it God himself? As It's popularity grows they build a midway That has now like a the seaside studio souvenir photography

studio The Loof carousel Magruder saltwater taffy. I mean all the things that us here would just have loved to do. Yeah all the time Saltwater taffy is Gross and Tastes bad. Oh, and then it rips all your fillings out And I bet back then they had like one flavor. Yeah, it was just say was like, yeah, I'll falfa. Yeah There was but there was your favorite pitch and skill games pony rides goat carts of fortune tellers a

Weight guesser shut up. I know what you don't know it yet And a variety of dark of thrill rides amusements and attractions Oh, here's this picture. I found that I just kind of like I Don't know if it's an attraction or if it's Oh Steven actually put Long Beach trolley there as if that's the name of it But I just called it a trolley because I didn't know what else to call it I like it

That's please don't anyone go and like write your thesis about the Long Beach trolley This is just another one of my lies Okay Oh I think there's another one this the one after this no, there's gonna be a bunch Georgia. Okay, this story is mostly pictures. All right The next picture. I think there's yeah, oh shit Look how rad that kid is that kid wants to fight me that kid is like that kid saw the photographer And he was like fucking come at me, bro

I'm filled with salt water taffy, and I'm gonna kick your ass. Oh my god Look at him. He has two jobs and he smokes Yay Look at and those are little flags, and that's where the lights are that's the way of the lights There's salty old Virginia. She's just doing her thing in her full bottle of gin in her purse totally Yeah, where you want to go the pier all right. There's a penny. Leave me alone. Yeah, get out of here kid Gary his name's Gary It's baby Gary's baby Gary

All right Then in 1930 they build the humongous roller coaster the cyclone racer. Have you ever seen this thing? No, okay? It's rad. This is the entrance. It's a hundred feet tall hard pass all made of wood You know no, I don't want to go. Are you gonna make me go on it right now? Yeah, you have to and can we do the the wide of it because it went out Essentially the next picture is the wide It goes out into the sea Is this?

No, so what is your fear heights? We got you covered the ocean. We've got you covered. Yeah Weird deaths. Yeah, we're there like early architecture that's made by like alcoholic Hobos who like Just don't give a shit and then like no licensing and checks and balances. They're like I like roller coasters So I'm gonna build one see yeah Right over the ocean. Yeah insurance. We don't need insurance. Don't be crazy It's all that little kids idea

Gary is such an entrepreneur More than a few drunken sailors who had gone down to the pier because there's lots of sailors sailors stationed down Long Beach Ignored the do not stand up sign. Why wouldn't you I mean, you're right your special day If it's your day and you want to have fun your way Stand up on this insane roller coaster with no safety features whatsoever and die die die die die So It had dual tracks hairpin turns a skeletal frame that dangled out over the ocean like myself and By World War two the pike the whole amusement area had grown to 15 acres

And then they had they added freak shows they added arcades shooting galleries dance halls bars tattoo parlors It was filled year-round with tourists and quote thousands of salty sailors stationed in Long Beach Sorry before I go any further I got all this information from an article on slate comm on a website called all that's interesting comm But it's just this story And then there's a guy named Charles Phoenix who who has a website, you know that guy It's all like retro stuff and he kind of explains like it used to be nice down here. Look at these pictures So that the salty sailors quote is from his website. That's what reminded me. All right

So in 1950 they hold a contest to rename the pike. Okay. Do you want to do a guess of like a what's a better name for the pike amusement park? Oh Drunk people everywhere. That is good. No, they were fighting the fighting wave Tonics, yes, how did how did you do that? They renamed it the new pike so Okay, that's just called it piker Right piker like more than pike. Yeah, yeah new pike

Piker piker. Well, you should have entered the fucking contest. That's the thing clearly That's the thing is they hold a contest and that's like the the fishbowl is out on the desk and there's just that one piece of Paper that says new pike inside and they're like any else any other ideas anyone seriously just say anything It could be like like wave tectonics. It could be wave tectonics So By the 70s this place turned into like this shitty rundown carnival that looked like somewhere You you you would not have a ride away from and then be like, oh, this is it for me Do we have a picture of what it ended up looking like after it was like

70s new pike is pretty sad Cool. I like this shit close your eyes and pictured in your mind You're going to did I not have the new pike? Oh, I might have skipped that one. Well, if it comes up, it comes up and Steven is fired anyway This is where our story begins I actually wrote that down because I was like you're talking about this carnival so much No one knows what's going on anymore You're supposed to be doing a Halloween show where everyone's creeped out and it's spooky Halloween and instead it's like carnival days

in Long Beach So in 1976 They're filming the six million dollar man at the new pike Right, I think that was my mom. I swear to fucking God Look at that P. Look at the hot piece right there. Mm-hmm in his whip stitch jacket That is a motherfucking button nose if I've ever seen one. He's just a precious man. That's all Okay, God that guy he was like I but when I was growing up this because this show is on from 74 to 78

I think and this is just like some of my most baseline memories is like Oh, it's my mom and my dad and fucking that guy in the background. Oh wait. He was everywhere He was humong Okay, so just if you don't know it you're you're like, I'm a millennial and I won't pay attention to anything before 1999 then I'll tell you This was a television show. This is what we watched before YouTube And it ran from 74 79 It was about a former astronaut named colonel Steve Austin who was played by Lee majors. That's him

very talented man He had been given superhuman strength because the government had given him bionic implants So fucking true story to you guys. It is. No, they just don't want you to know about it. Yeah He just wasn't super hot the guy that actually no, he was kind of plain Steve Austin could run super fast, but you knew that because he was running in slow motion And then there was like a machine sound that they laid over the top of slow motion running and they're like God He's so fast and that was CGI back then. Yes Just some just some

Layers. Yeah, and then he also had one like real weird eye Like it just a real sharp eye He's bionic. Don't worry about it one time Steve Austin met up with Bigfoot. Do we have that next picture? Yeah, he did Like 74 to 79 it's a long fucking time like that fifth season writer's room They're like we did the thing where he fought against Russian spot What about already did he ever meet up with and I remember this happening Like this was a rule that had to happen on every show the fucking Harlem Grove Globetrotters You ever team up with them? They're all inside this big suit. Yeah

Amazing I this is actually one of a very distinct memory I have because When I don't know if they were fighting or if they were just having fun in the forest But Bigfoot like was throwing huge logs. I mean we that's all we we had no choices back then in our Entertainment, we're just like no, I love this. I love this. I want a lunchbox with this on it They're fuckers so And now our story begins, okay, so So they're shooting an episode of the six million dollar man at the new Pike carnival and it's an episode where for some reason Steve Austin the six million dollar man goes on a spooky funhouse ride. Sure. That's dignified

Yeah You know how like government operatives when they're fighting crimes sometimes go on a funhouse. Yeah to do so Yeah, perhaps he was chasing a criminal that also wanted to have fun real quick sure before he got away absolutely So it was they actually went on the a real ride from the new pike and it was Who's called laugh in the dark and I think we have a picture of it. This is one the only things look at it Oh, leftover Wow, yeah, that's real. Okay, and it was really there

Okay, and it's the kind of thing. We're just like the children's Institute. You're like somebody made this up and it's not a good idea Laugh in the dark is dumb. Yeah. Yeah, it's a bad name. Yeah, and it's not spelled right It's not spelled right and it doesn't look fun funny or scary Uh-huh. It just looks like it almost looks like where the bathrooms should be Okay Picture if you will the prop man from the six million dollar man has to go into Laugh in the dark and look at all the shit that's been stuck in there and be like, okay Well, if the shot goes through here, we're gonna be looking at this this this and this is what we want

Or do we actually bring in things that are interesting looking and so as he does that Uh, it says in the ride There's a tunnel where various ghosts ghouls skeletons and demons pop out at you as your car is jerked side to side in The dark sounds fun. I mean, you know what it make you do laff laugh. That's for sure So The prop guy is fixing shit up. He sees there's a mannequin hanging from a noose in the corner So he probably was like, I don't know if the kids will love that now that we've got the big foot crowd following us Sure, we might we might want to take the noose out of the shot

Yeah, he goes up to grab the mannequin and he ends up pulling its arm off and then when he looks at the arm There's a bone inside Oh, no, not only a bone but tissue like flesh around the bone Gross, so he puts that arm down very gingerly and then he proceeds to scream for 11 days In the dark it stays there he's right right in the dark screaming 11 days Oh, where did I go? Oh, that's right at the bottom of the page. Wow scream. Oh, I put screams for 11 years days It's funnier years is too long We have to edit on the fly we have to know that everything is fixable

Who's she that's the opposite of drunk Karen. I hate her This okay prepare yourselves if you brought like a baby or something turn it away This is this is that this is what was found In the dark How why see where the arm was broken off That's how it was hanging no when the guy thought still thought it was a mannequin over there No, that looks no. No, right? The answer is yes or no. No, I don't want to go on this ride either Please you're gonna make me go on this ride. Yeah, you have to know you have to

That's horrible it also I can't tell if somebody photoshopped it read which if you did hats off to you Because it makes it that picture is awful and it looks like something that'd be like a creepypasta You're reading where you're like this isn't real. Yeah, a child wrote this and then that would be the picture underneath the article This on the other hand Well, that looks like tandoori chicken, which is Delicious, it's scary in a different way. It's scary and it's heightened Okay. Oh my god. So here's what's happening It turns out the mannequin was Elmer McCurdy an old west outlaw who died in a gunfight with police

Sixty-five years earlier. Holy shit, right in 1911 Elmer McCurdy the mist just making vagabond That's the best nickname of all time, it's super long you can't remember it He robbed a train in Oklahoma and then he took his $46 and bottle of whiskey which at that time was $17,000 And he fled to Kansas when the police found him they they he hid in a big haystack because this is a Bugs Bunny cartoon and They start a shootout he says you'll never take me alive and they're like sounds great

It's a deal and they kill him and then his body is taken to a funeral home It sits at the funeral home. No one ever claims it. So the undertaker who? Saw it's 1911. So he's like I need money. We all need money. This is the Wild West So what he does is he puts Elmer's body out in front of the funeral home still in his casket and Who set up is you can come look at him if you put a nickel in his mouth Do we have no you have a photo Go right up go right up little girl. What's wrong? He looks like Ted Bundy kind of well

No, I see how you think he's cute You try to live your life as a bank robber whatever with respect and you end up being a fucking bank for children. Yeah Not cool, that's not cool, but it doesn't end there because that goes on for a while and then In 1915 two guys from a carnival come and say they're Elmer's brothers And they're there to take him away to be buried and I believe I'm and the undertaker is like, okay, and then he Like opens up his but and all the nickels fall out. Stop it. Stop it. That's not funny It's like I don't say that combo machine How else do you get the nickels out like what's the thinking we were all what was he gonna do? Yeah, we wanted to know

How'd you get them nickels? So the two brothers aren't real brothers or other carnival owners And so Elmer then becomes an attraction at their traveling carnival and he's displayed as the bandit who wouldn't give up She's this sounds like a Scooby-Doo curtain. Yes, there should definitely be a big stacked up sandwich somewhere in this Oh one bite. Yeah, how did he do it? He was so thin and he could eat all the tall sandwiches. He wanted so jealous. I hate shaggy, okay so When the body is considered no longer in mint condition. Oh, sorry

There's always these beauty standards that we have to live up to They change the act and he then is displayed as the 1,000 year old man great. Yeah, the hits keep coming Yeah, Carl Reiner's like that was my idea Thank you Someone listens to comedy records from the 40s. I'm not alone anymore This goes on for 60 years. Yes, I'm just displaying this man willy-nilly At carnivals wax museums haunted houses and then he finally ends up at Pike's amusement park Where they applied a nice coat of paint to him great and they hung him and laugh in the dark

They thought the whatever you call authorities believe that he was hanging there for four years Before he was discovered They took his body back to Oklahoma and buried him in 1977 which we have a picture of is it gonna be his body? Oh Great. Yeah, finally. That's nice Although After they buried him they did pour an extra slab of concrete over his casket So he wouldn't get out and wander about again. I you guys That doesn't happen and also he didn't do it in the first place. They did it to him, right?

He was like, you know where I want to go next. He's like No, you stay down there. I'd love to motherfuckers. I wanted to do this 65 years ago And that's the story of Elmer McCurdy the mannequin at the carnival Oh, I found that one so long ago. I'm so happy for you No, that that was yeah, that was a good one. Thanks. Good job. Thanks so much Looking for a better cooking routine with meal planning shopping and prepping handled hello fresh has you covered? Hello fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year Hello fresh meals are convenient seasonal and delicious stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly

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Slash murder 20 with code murder 20 That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hello fresh dot CA slash murder 20 and use code murder 20 Goodbye Hey, I'm Mike Corey the host of wonder is podcast against the odds In our next season three mask men hijack a school bus full of children in the sleepy farm town of Chow Chilla, California They bury the children and their bus driver deep underground planning to hold them for ransom Local police and the FBI marshal a search effort, but the trail quickly runs dry as The air supply for the trapped children dwindles a pair of unlikely heroes emerges

Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon music or Wondery app Do we have time for a costume contest? It's a costume contest you want to see? Yeah, watch this here. We go. Oh my god. Oh I'm dressed as Elvis. Yes, you are Vince Averill everybody tour manager Vince Averill Already married you I would marry their shit out of you just for this Yes, truly

Real quick the the big foot on six million dollar man honor the giant. Oh, are you serious? Absolutely double married Double married now. It's a double wedding me and you and him Trick-or-treat ladies. I'll be right back. Thank you. Oh He's also in character as Elvis. I know he's not just wearing the outfit our cat is named Elvis guys for anyone who's new get it So Vince went around and pulled some interesting some of interest

Costumes out of the audience if you're sitting there with your perfectly put together girl from the ring and you're like mine's better It might be yeah, you know, we just we just wanted to highlight some efforts. Yeah It's just a couple of cool people. Why are we so defensive about the costume contest? You all look great by the way We do thank you so much Those of you dressed up Okay, where are they Vince? They're all backstage. Oh Just chillin out cute cuz get it out my cat's Elvis. I do it's like a it's like a play on words

Yeah Kim I'm just really happy about yeah, he's not he doesn't take big swings. He's a very low-key person Yeah, yeah, yeah, and with the gesturing. I don't know what we're waiting for right now. I'm fired. Yeah, really everyone's fired tonight at the entire Microsoft You know today When I was driving to work there was a girl wearing a really tight rogue costume She was dressed as rogue, but like in real latex I think or like it was just this thing and she had the hugest butt and so as I drove by I was like, yeah

It's like on Halloween you put it out there and if you're gonna put it out there You should be supported by other big-budded girls. I think Put it out there people like it I love it. I love it. All right, let's get our men's pick these costumes. Let's see what he's brought out What should we go? Oh My god, I love that movie It's Lelu Your name is Jessica, but I'm also the supreme Julie you say it again

I'm Jessica, but I'm also the supreme being the supreme being that's right I thought the supreme being was that lady that sang opera. No, it's Lelu. I'm going over here. I protect you It's Katie such a little peanut, I love it. I love peanut Oh, there she is. It's a notorious RBG RBG Thank you for dressing up. Yeah incredible. That's her Wednesday Just it's just my Wednesday out. Yes Cool, um, I don't know what do you guys want to do now?

I was just gonna stand here for the rest of the night. Okay, cool. It's my bedtime, but I mean Is there a contest? Well, um, I think you guys all three already won here. I have. Oh, what you got? George has got some prizes for you It's not candy relax Ruth Bader Ginsburg for Christ's sake Yeah, I'm gonna give you my Because I didn't bring the pin off your jacket. Oh, because you only have two. Here you go. Good job, everybody. Thank you Good job, everyone Give them a hand

Thank you, that's it Thank you so much. I have to give a shout out to my girlfriend Lisa. Hi Lisa. Oh, do you hang her on a little bit? I'm trying to become a murderino get out. Oh You're too late Too late Good job. Hi, what's your name? John. John, where the fuck were you? Lost. Really? I have no idea where to go Did you have to get up here by yourself?

Well, no one said my name. Oh, that's because you didn't get picked God, Halloween is tough sometimes isn't it? Do you have another pen for John? No, I John. I'm sorry. What you got? My food? Perfect. Thank you Thanks you guys. Give me my hand. Yeah, that's it. That's all Good job. We didn't really have a plan. No Yeah, yeah, good job. Thanks you guys. You can just go get lost kind of wander backstage. I think there's some there's hockey next door. Oh There's one more. Oh, oh, he's dressed as a serial killer. Is there?

Let's see. Oh Holy it's fucking Ed Kemper Oh Cameron Britain from HBO's Mindhunter is here Right We had a reason for doing that. It was a big mess. Here comes your tail with us Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, how'd you like our costume contest Cameron pretty good. Hello. Hey, it was it was great

This is my version of my own costume It's really good. Yeah, I didn't have tennis shoes on like new balance on the day But this was what I auditioned in this was the shirt. Is that true? Really? Yeah, this is it How many times did you have to audition? I auditioned? Six times really no, and they told me that no one else had to so I don't know Nobody else Jonathan Groff is like no, I did twice and Maybe they just wanted to see you act more. Yeah, did you know who Ed Kemper was when you went in? No, I had no idea. No, but I could tell by the the script that I was sent

I was on the set a few pages or something about it just didn't seem like it was Made up by a writer. It seemed like quotes So very grounded. Yeah, so I just got a feeling I tied Ed Kemper into YouTube and I went down a rabbit hole Of a long time that I can I'll never forget like we went that night you know I did I did a self-tape and then we went to a bar in North Hollywood and My friends and I were talking about like okay I just had this audition this guy really didn't I went through the list of all the things he did to his mom and like We're all just drinking like oh my god

That's the craziest thing and those you guys I got a callback for that really and then I was like you guys I got another call back. No, that's great. I was like you guys. I got another call back Over six weeks Wow, but then it ended up that you got an Emmy nomination Yeah That's a pretty good feeling right it was some It's pretty emotional actually this was my first guest star at 31 and it's led to being here This could all be yours this is all be yours and we have the Emmys there and I sat right down there That's right because they held them here. I was right next to Jane Lynch. We were the Emmys were a practice for this show

Yeah, that was what it was. Yeah, and I didn't get on stage that night, but I'm here now. So I'm on stage. That's right And we're giving you our version of an Emmy The Steady So how long did you have to because you you played at Kemper so beautifully that it made me a little terrified of you And I met you earlier. Yeah Because it was so good and real how long did you have to like practice? Being the biggest creep TV never rehearses But we rehearsed we rehearsed a lot actually

We discussed it a lot and I had a few months before the first shoot which we shot it in order and then Maybe a few months later into the next one fine. So it was nine months in character I just kind of passed up auditions and stuff. So I just focused on him for nine months Which in TV again as a guest star is impossibly rare. Yeah And that's the show, you know it if anyone there hasn't seen it. It's it goes All out and making it as authentic as possible. Yeah, you know, there's no I love Hannibal Lecter, but it's so over the top This is much more grounded. Well, because they're real people. I mean, it's that thing where we read these stories

I mean talk about the the facts of these cases that are so you just can't believe I'm you know a guy cut his own mother's head off and buried her in the backyard facing the house Oh, it's like shit where you're like what but then it's like it's a real person. It's a real person that did that Yeah, yeah, I still can't believe It's weird because you know like Stalin murdered millions of people But still like if you cut your mom's head off and you have sex with it, we're still No, you didn't And then he's six foot nine and it's IQ's like 145 and yeah guys just did you have to you're not six foot nine

I'm six five. I mean, I didn't mean that as an insult Plenty tall Did you have to wear heels? I did Yeah, yeah, it was it was boots with high heels on it and then I mean those hurt like hell Yeah, they fucking do. Yeah. Yeah, fine. Link try it at 300 pounds girls But a lot of that stuff like I took my shoes off so not to Take you out of the moment, but if you're watching the show and my feet are under a table. There's a good chance I know

Chilling back, you know hippie at Kemper Secrets of Hollywood, you know, it's really funny too is like talking to you. It's not totally dissimilar It's not like this, you know but When you were at Kemper, there was no light in your eyes. You were the most dead-eyed reptilian person Right, it's not that's crazy Really hard on that dead-eyed thing. You do turn that light out real good Christian Bale talked about he He based a lot of American psycho off of Tom Cruise because he noticed that his smile never reaches his eyes

So there is a way you can practice just killing your eyes Oh my god, we should start a Hollywood gossip podcast the three of us. Yes. Yeah, let's start Right Russell Crowe and Dakota Fanning went out. No, I doubt they did ever were you you have a hometown murder story, right? I do It's an old family secret that my grandmother didn't she didn't know that she had two uncles Until she was 18 years old. It was so secret But all the people involved are dead now, so they don't care, so I'm gonna tell you there's the best ones

You can make the most jokes on those ones. Let's talk about so let's go back to 1897 this house was built on this property. My family still has we still camp on it But at that time it was sheep herding country Where is this? This is in Cazadero, California, which you may know There's no way There are to this day 400 people living in the They're all here tonight They're all yes, even the mayor we could all become our own army and just take over

So it's this is even further up north than that this is way out in the woods of northern California And my great-grandfather grew up in this house, and he tried to mule to school So so when he okay, so his two older brothers Dawn and James James murdered Dawn spoiler alert James was He had a complicated birth, so they think he had a lack of oxygen, so he had like the mind of like an eight-year-old and he His mother Anna brought him to a mental institution and brought him in and looked around and then decided no

I did it's not right for him, which is you know unfortunate because sometime later dawn and James were down at the barn and We're really not sure on the dispute We think dawn was heading to San Francisco and that made James jealous because in that day just going to San Francisco was amazing It's a big deal. It's just like oh, you're the coolest guy I've ever met That's how it was in my town, too, and I was growing up wait. How old were the boys? They were in their 20s at this point, but my great-grandfather's the younger brother. He was like seven So I'm whispering

Gather round gather round everyone So then So they're having a dispute and James was known the children were all scared of him growing up for these violent outbursts He'd have and they got in a dispute and he grabbed the ax off the barn door and he and he murdered dawn and Anna the mother heard it and ran down to the barn and found James covered in blood and then when my mom tells it She goes and it's really upsetting for James because he was a clean freak I don't know if you need the icing on the cake

upset because the blood his brother's blood on him sticky So but Anna was kind of a baller I still can't believe that she would do this. She she said I got it handled and she she stayed with James Alone in this in this wilderness with her son. I just murdered her other son and she sent George my my grand Great-grandfather at seven years old to the nearest house to get help and that was two miles away In the dark in the woods in the dark in the dark in the woods like it's like a bad day And then it's like a really bad day, you know, it's not great and thankfully he doesn't remember much of it, but James went to a mental institution and he died there and

Yeah, my grandma never knew until she was 18 And then four more people died of you know, old-age or just that stuff that people died of all the time in the day And in that house and that house got very haunted my mother seen ghosts in there And then we would go camp and sleep in the house We'd be like we want to go to Disneyland. She's like, no, we're going you got to remember your history Oh, no, don't remember your history. Don't remember your history. I can't learn nothing and And so And and that's really it

What more do you want? Layer upon layer, that's crazy So good so good and do you think did you bring a little James into the Kemper character? I don't know. Well, maybe he's in there. Maybe he's in there right now. You know what was in there was Robert, California from the office again But it wasn't like I was like and a little Robert Sprinkling speakers happen and then James Stewart. I just felt like there is a little bit of a polite Yes, the formality, you're right and then a lot of my dad Who is Ed Kemper? Yeah, no, that's another home

What's next for Cameron Britain, yeah, oh girl on the Spires web comes out November 9th Claire foyer's the best she's everything you'd hope she'd be and then Okay, so February 15th a new Netflix show called umbrella Academy comes out. What's that about? That one is a comic book series brought to live-action Mary J. Blige and I play two assassins Give it to me now. It's me and Mary J. Blige traveling through time And assassinating the good guys They're so upset they have to leave you upset the twins from the shining

Oh, I'm not playing with you forever What are you talking about I don't And you there we can't talk about whether or not you're on the next season of mine hunter But you but you can tell us one thing about someone else who's on it. Yeah, right? I I found out that they'll have Charles Manson as an interview The same the same um the same actor is actually playing Manson again in Tarantino's once upon a time in Hollywood. So this guy is like so good at he's Australian And they got the makeup artist from the darkest hour who just won Academy Award

So this dude looks like Manson and then they'll cover the Atlanta child murderers. Wow. Yeah, so you're gonna see Holden Ford You know not just do do studies He's gonna be in the field Practicing and trying to actually catch bad guys and we're gonna see a little of that BTK, right? Because that was got got laid in real subtle Yeah, I let my favorite thing is people who don't follow true crime and they would watch Mindhunter and then go who's the guy with the mustache Really upset and I'd be like

BTK I knew it immediately, but whatever type in Wichita Kansas and then serial killer and then yeah Go down another rabbit. Just keep going down those rabbit holes When he got arrested the because he sent a floppy disk in in 2001. Did you guys cover him? BTK, I think I did. Yeah, I can't remember. So he he sent in a floppy list to the cops And he said do you do you will you guys be able to to pull up deleted files? And they said no Do that and then they pulled up deleted files and they found him and they pulled him over and the cops said

You know why I pulled you over and Dennis Raider said I have a pretty good idea I cannot wait for Mindhunter and we were so we thought of this of having you and then we're like because it was truly like Dream the dream idea and the the fact that you said yes, and that you're here with us tonight is so awesome. Thank you So Everybody yay celebrities He has a lot of ballet training We have another guest one more guest. Yes It's very exciting

It's Josh Mankiewicz We have to rehearse our cues We're not good at this. Look, it's Josh Mankiewicz or Dayline! Here come sit here let's pull our chairs back a little. If if you work for Dayline you dream about one day sitting in the chair that Ed Kemper sat I Okay, all I'm gonna tell you about the voice is that When I started in this business, which was before either of you were born I worked for a different network. I will not identify that network, but its initials are ABC

And they sent me because I had this voice they sent me to something like 50 to a hundred thousand dollars worth of voice coaching lessons to get me to get me to sound like every other announcer on the radio And I did my absolute best But I I tried but it didn't work. This is the voice I went in with this the voice I came out with We're glad it works for us. Yeah Now you guys Dayline You guys have followers that have a name for themselves, right? Um, we uh, we've you mean like murderinos. Well, yeah, don't isn't aren't there Dayline heads or something Dayline?

There's a there on Twitter. There's a there's a there's a group called Dayline Divas. Yeah There may be some of them here today. Sure Yeah, it's a it's a big community not tremendously unlike this one I devoted and and and they know all the details of the stories like people come up to me in airports And they inevitably say two things one is they say I was watching murder at the crossroads and I fell asleep. What happened? Just to tell the rest of the clearly I've put millions of Americans to sleep Yeah, it's they're out

And the other thing is they say to me something that they saw not on Dayline But where Dayline gets repurposed on the ID or one of the other channels that it runs on and they say they talk about a murder From like six or seven years ago. They go, okay What the guy who killed his wife? I'm gonna need a little more than that Yeah, and then eventually we figure it out, but I always think when you guys are interviewing Like you know how sometimes you interview the husband because he's claimed that he's innocent that whole thing Like have you ever had an experience where you're interviewing one of those people and it's like

Creeping you out or you have to take a break or like, you know, they're full of shit in some way Frequently, you know that they're full of shit Which we can't really say on Dayline but You know first of all Frequently by the time we're talking to someone who's the accused murderer They're either the accused murder or by the time we're talking to them. They're the convicted murderer But you know, we try and talk to everybody in the story and everybody

Gets their gets their say that doesn't mean that I don't get the poke holes in in whatever their defense was But usually by the time people are sitting across from me They are on their best behavior because they're trying to you know, this is all a big conspiracy My you know, my my wife's family is out to get me. I'm really not guilty So usually they're not scary now. There was a guy last year In Montana whose girlfriend disappeared and has not been fayah shout out to Montana with all those all those places to hide a body Congratulations She's never been found and we were speaking with him and he was locked up at this point and

He got very angry that I was questioning his version of events and he started yelling at me and normally they're shackled and normally like if we're on camera Like right there is some big corrections officer, but in this case they were sort of out in the hall and He wasn't actually shackled and I thought to myself This guy's gonna kick my ass because he's a lot bigger than I am and a lot younger but then he I think realized that that was Not gonna be the preferred part of the correctional experience and he

He did not and he calmed down and then he got up and laughed and then we got him to come back and you know It ended up it worked out. Okay, but no, I mean No, and right and afraid for my safety probably only that one time, but most of the time like you're talking to somebody and you Either know or believe that the story they're telling you is not true But you know, you're sort of more interested in the give-and-take of the interview Yeah, yeah, it is great when they think they're getting away with lying or like that. They really are look I'm so smart. Yeah, I'm gonna convince you. It's our case

That's either your favorite or least favorite or the one you got asked about the most The one I get asked about all the time is the murder of Tom and Jackie Hawks right here in Southern, California off the coast by Newport By I'm sure you know this many of you know this story I Wanted to steal their boat. They'd put it up for sale and he he persuaded them to take them to take him out on Essentially a test drive. He brought along a friend of his who was a gang member that he'd hired off some corner I think in Long Beach and they and they yeah again shout out to LBC

They know the LBC knows who they and And they took him to the gap To dress him in a way that made him look inoffensive. Yes The gap's not like a sponsor of yours or anything Pick up some socks this week three for five. So so they so they took this gang member to the gap and then These people let him on the boat and they ended up paying for it in a horrible way And that's the story I get asked about all the time and all the people involved

They're locked up now. Yeah, that's good. That's so creepy. I hate those ones that are the cold-case ones What was your first? Can you remember the first one that you ever reported on the first the first murder? Yeah, Brianna Denison and Reno, Nevada I'm still in touch with her mom really Yeah, well, you know you end up and if you're doing this or at least if you're doing it right you end up sort of Staying in touch with these people in your life because you spend a lot of time with them over a very short period of time And you end up becoming very close to them sort of as you talk about their story because you're talking about You know the the thing they're never gonna get over and there's this this myth that

Locking people up is somehow, you know makes everything okay for the families. It doesn't and You know so you end up getting much closer to these people then then maybe otherwise might and so yeah I'm still in touch with a lot of these people and that was that was a that was a terrible story Amazing like all of them and that was in that was in I think 2006 2007 by which time I already been at daylight in ten years But we didn't start doing true crime until then. Yeah Wow, do you want to plug anything? What's coming up next? Well, let's see I might I have like three or four things in production right now, but I don't know when they're gonna be on the air Are any of them with Mary J. Blige?

Okay, I can't say That would be inappropriate This Friday is a great story in South Carolina. It's reported by Andrea canning the story that took place. I think in 2013 Like two or three different trials And you know the stories that that I mean At DateLine we always try and sort of draw a line in between the story Which is extremely sad and the story telling which can be kind of fun and

I mean we don't say Here's the story about a guy who was accused of killing his wife But it turned out to be the next door neighbor now stick around for 59 minutes. Yeah, right? We we draw it out as you know so The hardest stories to tell are the ones in which the obvious suspect ends up being the guilty party This is not one of those stories Oh, there's a bunch of different places to go with the narrative and Andrea canning does a great job with it So that's this Friday on DateLine. Awesome. Oh Well

We've been Twitter friends with you for so long. I'm so glad we finally got you I'm so thrilled to be here Thank you so much. And you know, I I fly around the country all the time doing these stories and and now when I fly around the Country, I'm listening to the two of you Oh, come on, you guys amazing. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Josh. Thank you guys everyone. Josh Megwits from DateLine everybody. Thank you so much. Yes. Happy Halloween him off the stage. Oh my god. You guys We did it we Halloween you got I can't believe what an incredible audience you guys have been your Triple the size we're used to talking to and you were twice as quiet as any. I mean I In my mind, I was backstage telling Georgia who's just like look they're gonna be talking the entire time

You have to get ready for that. You need to be prepared. That's all I do to her all day long Shut up and we'll yell at them. I bet the bar lines were really long and everyone couldn't get shit-faced. Oh, that's right You went from us There's people in the front row going that's fucking right. You owe me four drinks They spent all their drink money on parking. Yeah, that's right We got it. We owe you one. We should have snuck you a course like that's yeah, man. I'm so sorry You can go to the yard house. All our friends are there So we really did start talking and became friends at this Halloween party and I and we had talked all night

And we were like let's meet for lunch. I want to talk to you more We were talking about true crime and we met and talked for five hours at cafe 101. You guys know that place And they let you sit there for five hours and just drinking coffee. It's a pretty chill and a little while later I think I texted you do you want to start a true crime podcast with me? Because all I wanted to do is keep talking to Karen about true crime because I hadn't met anyone who was excited to talk about theories and Favorite cases and you know all this horrible things these things that happen that are so awful But I felt like I could talk to her about it. And so we started this podcast in my old little apartment in 2016 yeah

Yeah, and little Armenia and Now in real Armenia. Yeah, it was a war-torn summer and Now we're downtown at the Microsoft Theater doing the largest fucking live podcast ever Honestly, I'm blown away We're so fucking honored and thrilled to be here and appreciate you guys so much showing up on Halloween and supporting us It's the whole thing. Yeah, we do spend a lot of time

In between trying to answer emails quickly We spend a lot of time staring each other going what the fuck is going on and you guys have basically Given us this humongous gift for some reason you it was like you were all just sitting there waiting for to have this conversation with us and you were there from day one you have turned out show after show Everything we everything we do you're so supportive and you're also Creating communities with each other and it is such a powerful thing to watch all of these people come together under the guise of true

Crime yeah, and actually raise money and make friends and deal with anxiety and do stuff That's such a hard thing to do alone and now you're not alone anymore It's the fucking coolest thing. Yeah, and you're doing it. You guys are doing it for each other Yeah, thank you guys for letting us do this. This is our dream job Thank you for being here and and we have to thank Right, we have to thank you with Microsoft Theater. They made us a fucking rug among many other things They're so supportive and excited. There's a lot of apparently we've been told murderinos that work here Which is the coolest thing? Yeah

But we also have to thank our agent Joe Swartz the first year of touring goes What if you did a live show on Halloween and we're like shut up and And then he was like how about the Microsoft 7,000 people were like shut up Why are you trying to set us up for failure all the time? But he but he did it he convinced us to do it and You guys sold it out and so thank you Joe short We're letting us sass you constantly and For setting up these tours in the lab shows and thanks you guys for buying these tickets and making it a thing

We're so thrilled. That's right. Thank you to so thrilled Steven and to Vince for supporting us. Yes We love it. Thanks you guys stay sexy and Thank you