My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 150 - How Dare You Kelli

Episode Date: December 6, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover the hanging of Alice Riley and the murder of Reyna Marroquín.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. And hello. I was going to say, and welcome.

Oh, well, you got, you got to clue me in on that. You're right. I should have written a cue card. Let's do it again. And welcome. Oh, that was great. That's fun. This is my favorite murder.

We're a true crime comedy podcast coming to you live. That's right. From Los Angeles, California, what? That's Karen Kilgarov. And that's Georgia Hardstark. And we've got Stephen Ray Morris on the ones and twos. That's right. He's holding it down for us.

That's right. We're in the pod loft again. We, I got some feedback that if we, you know, we got to record Elvis doing his cookie meow, if we're going to be recording in the office, I totally forgot about that. Oh, was there no, there was none. Cause of the minute we didn't tag anything on. Yeah. I just didn't think about it.

Stephen, you're fired. There's a real twist. A rude sentence. I didn't see the ending. It started with an I and it ended with a U. It did. It did. But we are in the pod loft right now and it's a fucking lovely rainy night in LA.

Oh my God. It actually is beautiful. It started raining this afternoon and usually in LA it starts stops. It rains just long enough for your car to look dirtier than it did in the morning. But not now. We're a straight, we're in straight up Portland, Oregon style rain. Love it so much. I love it except for, and sorry, this is the hackiest thing to go into, but people can't

drive in the rain here. They're just like, they, they drive the, I think I realized that they drive the way they drive in the not rain. And that's the problem. Yes. No one can adjust. Slow down. You fucking idiots.

Things have, your atmosphere has changed. Look and listen. And listen to your car. At the fucking rain. You stupid. You fucking. God. It's very, this is the kind of town though where it's, it's a town filled with people

who will not adjust to reality. Right. It's part of living here is living here and being like, I'm the greatest actor ever. And it's like, okay, you better dig all the way into that because you're going to need to hold on to it for 28 years. I was the prettiest girl at my high school and I still am single tier, single tier. Yeah. So there's a lot of like driving through the rain.

I'm not in the rain. I'm not in the rain. I'm the prettiest girl from my high school. I'm like, all right. All right. Get out of here. Kelly. Kelly.

God damn it. How dare you Kelly. Kelly, you're still pretty, but it's raining. Yeah. Kelly with an eye. Quit it. Kelly. It's, you know what?

You can put the eye, but we know your mother named you with a Y. That's right. So do what you want. We're not buying it, but we're, when we don't have to buy it or any of your acting. That's right. Guess what? What? Just act like you talk normally.

Try to convince people that you're not acting. That's the, you know what? Is that acting? That's the acting class that I'm in its charge $1,000 a week for. Just talking. Just talking. And then be like, there, you're acting there. I say you're acting.

What is it about getting in front of a camera that makes you, including me? I'm not an actor. Insane. Well, you know, it brings out all your insecurity words. Like the second you're there, you're like, Oh, I shouldn't be here. I mean, I'm the worst. I am anybody that gives me a part. I'm the worst.

I immediately forget all my lines and all I, all my brain will say is I shouldn't be here. I'm a fraud. They're going to figure me out. This, I'm not good enough. And can you see this strange hatchet like mine in my forehead? And is that what you're really focusing on is, don't do that with your mouth. Don't do that thing with your mouth.

You do this weird thing with your mouth, stop doing that thing with your mouth. What do you do with your mouth? Uh, I just, I have this, I don't know. My mouth is just complicated because I, you know what I do when I'm nervous, I hold my lips together like I'm just trying to keep my mouth shut, which is so symbolic. That's really what, if I'm truly nervous, it's, I'm holding my lips together like lips go on camera. Don't say it.

She's trying not to have an outburst. Okay. So it's like, it looks like I'm like, but really I'm just like, don't say anything. Please don't say anything. Don't say something stupid. I've been begging my mouth not to say something stupid all my life. It won't listen. I haven't tried to look normal and not like a weird person my whole life.

So I used to have to go to speech therapy because I would sit there when I was a kid. I like, I have my lips parted all the time. And so I'd have to be reminded to close my lips and sometimes my tongue would just kind of hang. Oh, that's embarrassing. Like that Instagram dog? Like this. Like the, I sent you a photo of me with a cello and it was like that face.

So I've been reminding myself not to fucking do that, Georgia. That's just a lack of self-consciousness though. That's what kids are like, where you're just kind of like hanging out and you don't, you don't aren't aware of yourself. And then suddenly a teacher's like, you got, you got to not do that anymore. Go to speech therapy. It's really embarrassing. We're going to stop you in class once a week and make you go see fucking speech therapist.

But so that was just kind of like, keep your tongue where you're supposed to keep it. Yeah. But I also have a lisp. So I think try to change that. That didn't go away. That's fine. This is not, either near nor, here, either near nor there. I'm trying to think of what I, yeah, mine was always just, just be, please be quiet.

Just be quiet. Please be quiet. Here's speech therapy. Shut the fuck. Seriously. No one needs to hear it. And then I'd be like, look, I don't want to be saying it either. You're not the teacher.

I understand. I don't want to be talking. It's my mouth that's doing it. It's not me. And what I realized much, much later, like when I was in my late thirties is that was anxiety. That was social anxiety. And the way I dealt with it, well, I never knew that that's what it was.

I thought, I have the worst personality. I better start drinking. That'll make me quiet. Yeah. And it worked. It worked for so many years. Because only because you don't remember what you said. And I'd be like, and it made more sense.

Yeah. Helpers. Or whatever. That was great when she did it. Hey, speaking of merch. There she is. Merchandise Jones. That's right.

If you go to my favorite murder.com, there's our store. There's a holiday. We have holiday items. You have to order by December 14th. What's today's date? It'll be the sixth mark today. You can get your Christmas and Hanukkah and holiday shit. Now some of that stuff sold out.

It's they have it back in stock. And I just want to say to all of the Jews, you guys, I'm so proud of us. Le Chaim. I'm Le Chaim to us. I'm so proud of us. We sold the fucking Hanukkah shirt out. Yeah. The Le Chaim bitches.

Of course. I didn't know. I just wanted to throw it up there and then it was the best idea. You're very merch savvy. But then also it was the kind of thing of like, yeah, you don't you should get some fun. It's like ugly Christmas sweaters. Yeah. And then it's like, and how about just a sassy Passover sweater?

Well, it reminds me, it reminds me of, you know, as, as a Georgia, you'd go as a kid, you'd go to the souvenir store and there wouldn't be a license, a tiny license plate with my name on it. And then what, you know, I never had that stuff. It's the same thing with being Jewish is you got, there's never Hanukkah stuff. Right. It's always Christmas stuff. And except for the one time that Urban Outfitters did that, remember they did like, I love being

a Jew, but they put like money symbols around. No, they didn't. Or they have like Kiss Me I'm Irish and there was like a Jewish one too. And they had to pull it because it was like stars of David's and like, and like dreidels and shit. But there were also money symbols. I swear to God, I will have Stephen fucking posted on the Instagram. Jesus Christ.

Stephen posts photos from the episode on the Instagram, they had to pull it. You stupid fucking idiots. Jesus. We'll see. That's that, you know, it's, that's, so I realized we're serving and say that doesn't exist. Yeah. That's right.

You know, well, and it's, I think probably most Jewish people have just gotten used to it. It's like, don't want that because it isn't there. So then finally you're like, Hey, but it is, how about it is there? And then it's like, what? Yeah. I'm just really proud of us. It's great.

Yeah. Is it this? Everyone loves a Jewish girl. Yes. They had a whole line of everyone loves an Irish girl. Everyone loves a whatever the fuck girl. Oh my God. Right.

Is that a purse? Oh, that's a dreidel. Sorry. Dreidel. I didn't realize dreidel's had the thing on the top that there. It's like a spinning. It's like a top. That's for the spinny part.

Okay. So they have the dreidel upside down because the spin they do. Well, that's stupid. That's why I thought it was a purse. I thought that was the handle. No. It does look like a purse. This is a little bump on the top.

That's not a dreidel. So it's purses and money. There's literally money symbols on this. It's so crazy. That looks like a dice with a handle. That's not a dreidel. Now, as everyone loves an Irish girl, it's that's surrounded by beers and potatoes and fucking cellulite and flowers on ours.

Yeah. It's just a, yeah, a coldness, yelling. It's hard to draw that shit. Yeah. They had to recall that shirt, which I think is pretty fucking fabulous. Yeah. Because now it's all just hearts. They changed it to all hearts.

Yeah. Like you can leave the Jewish stars, dude. It's so... There aren't even Jewish stars, though. As a poor Jew, I was also offended by that, too. As a Jewish girl who grew up poor, it's like, that's not... It's a stereotype. Right.

Well, but as a Jewish girl that grew up poor, why don't you admit that you want wanted money? Who the fuck doesn't want money? I wish I was a rich Jew. Well, that's a... I wish I was a rich Jew. I mean, but here's, that's the other thing, too, is who doesn't want money. Totally.

Any Lithuanians want money. Any... That's a nationality as opposed to a religion, but... Speaking of... Anyway, buy our merch because there's the very little... My favorite murder.com, there's your store. Have fun with it. There's also a ton of other shit.

I've been wearing the fuck out of my fuck you, I'm married sweatpants. Yeah, you have. And I realized it's not fair. We should get a fuck you, I'm divorced for you because it's the same thing. I'd rather not. Why? Because I think it's perfect. Well, the fuck you, I'm married came out of joke.

Yes. So I don't need... I can wear whatever I want because I'm married. You can wear whatever you want because you're fucking divorced. Yeah, but see, that's not a funny joke because that's tragic. Where it's like, fuck you, I'm divorced and in a deep depression and I've been wearing sweats for seven years. Okay.

It's too real. I get it. We have to... If we're gonna do divorced merch, it's gonna... We have to do something where it's lighter and it doesn't feel... Like a positive spin. Yeah. Okay.

But see, then we're just going into the I'm 50 area where it's just like, celebrate my... Moniculture. Whatever the fuck. Moniculture. Yeah, that's... Basically, it's been covered by like, it's wine o'clock, that's basically your divorce merch.

Right. I want to... I'm alone and in my addiction. Join me. That's good merch, right? And then the little lighthouse. Oh, yeah. I love that.

Okay. Let's do it. How about something along the lines of like, hey, leave me alone, I'm isolating. There is a shirt that says, sorry, I'm late, I didn't want to come. Yeah. There's no time to see it. I think of you so much that I just want to get you. You might as well.

I know. But yeah, I don't need the shirt because it'll come right out of my mouth. Yeah. Hey, I hate being here, so I'm going to go ahead and go. I saw a cartoon, oh my God, I figure out who it was by that said, there's two girls walking into a party and one girl's going, I can't wait to leave this party later. I'm so excited to leave this party. Yeah.

Oh God. Hold on one second, let me... I actually know who that person is. Oh, who is it? It's them. It's my friend, Hilary Campbell. Cartoons and what's her Instagram? Cartoons by Hilary.

That's great. I love that. She went to the, I think she went to the New York show. Yeah, she's good. I followed her Instagram. Oh, so cool. I can't wait to leave this party later. I'm so excited to leave this party later.

That's, God damn it, that's my life. I'm sure I'm misquoting it. Can I have a thing real quick? On a down or no? No, it's actually a positive. I mean, it's positive. So last week I, at the end of the show, talked about my incredible therapist, Kim, who passed away suddenly and unexpectedly, and then I, this fucking podcast man, like the levels

of amazement that happens, that has happened and has been happening for the past three fucking years is insane. I get an email, it's from a family member of hers who was like, I was listening to the podcast and I had a fucking pullover because I, the minute you said Kim, I realized you're talking about my family. I don't want to output. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My family member and it meant so much to us.

She played it for Kim's parents who, who said thank you for, you know, cause I wasn't able to tell Kim how much she meant to me, but her parents don't know. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah. And it's just this, it's such a huge, this podcast, like the connections it's making with other people getting together with us and other people, it's just incredible. And it's just, I didn't think that would happen. And it, you know, it wouldn't have happened without this podcast and it just kind of,

it gave me this little, little light of, you know, hope in this kind of depression. Yeah. Because it matters, you know, it matters and expressing how you feel about people and how people matter to you and that, that people that you value people. It's super important to express that. And I guess we're getting this weird version of it where it's like, oh my God, someone heard it and cared, but it's in your day to day life. It's, you might as well just do it.

It's an important thing to do because you may feel like, oh, this makes me so vulnerable or I'm at this risk or whatever. But if you can figure out a way to express how you feel to people real time while they're aware of it, they might really need it. It could really matter. Yeah. It's a good idea. And also it's just like, it's a good practice to, to practice kind of being brave about

just going like, well, that's just how I feel. Oh, it's vulnerability. That's the key with, you know, of course, please read Brunet Brown's Darren Greatley as, I don't think Karen and I would, this wouldn't exist without her. No, it wouldn't. Yeah. This podcast, we wouldn't be friends without her, I feel like, because we bonded over the fact that we were both in the middle of it and the thing was be vulnerable.

So like, Yes. Which is, we, which is one of our, I think that bonded us so fast because it was that thing of like, it's so hard just to be at a party filled with people that we're all friends with and we're still so uncomfortable and it's like, but let's be Georgia going, okay, let's go around the room and say, what was it? Things that were vulnerable? Let's say one thing, it was Thanksgiving and I said, let's say one thing we're vulnerable

about in a room full of fucking male comedians. Comics. And that's the only reason I did that is because I can't eat in silence. That's like one of my old fucking eating things. That's the only thing that's stuck around is I can't just quietly masticate. Yes. So it was like, okay, can we all fucking talk please and stop chewing and let's all say one thing we're vulnerable about and you were like, are you reading Darren Greatley?

Yeah. Yes, I am. It was the best. It's the kind of thing of I love stuff like that. I love really talking about stuff and I think, let's not have small talk. Yes. Let's not have small talk. Let's not riff.

It's like, I've been in a culture, a comedy culture for so long where sincerity was the worst thing you could do. It made you, it put a target on your back. It made you weak. It made you stupid, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, and that's just so old. It's very 90s mentality where it's just like, actually it's very cool. It's too cool.

It's being too cool. Right? Like the less you give a shit, the more cool you are. Which is just a mask. It's so obvious now. And I also think that's a part of being young. But now that I'm middle aged, I'm just like, oh yeah, I don't care anymore. I don't give a fuck if you think I'm cool or not.

I don't give a fuck if you like the music. I'm like, I'm not here for that anymore. I did that already and I suffered through that already. And now I'm just kind of like, what's cool? What could happen if I actually am my real self and don't hold my lips together? And let those lips fly. I've been letting these lips fly on this podcast for three years. It's been pretty nice.

It's proven your point wrong that you should keep your mouth shut. Yeah. Probably. Now we just have to teach my lips. All right. Okay. Do you have anything else? I don't think so.

Although I apologize because I'm not sure. I'm now at the end of my full time job. So I'm a little out of my mind. Your other full time job. Yeah. The other, the additional one that I chose to take on as some sort of way of proving to the world that you're not a failure. Yes, exactly.

I can do things. No one believes that yet. So I still have to continue to prove I can do things. Good job. Yeah. We believe you now. Do you? Or should I get another job?

Because I was going to work Macy's Christmas shifts just to meet the wrapping paper station. I would actually fucking love that. You got a wrapping paper wrapping gifts. Oh my God. Are you? Well, this could have been a trick of my mom's because she would go, you're so good at wrapping. So smart. And then I would, I'd be like, I'm really good at wrapping and I'd wrap everything.

And it took me to like a year after she died where I was like, she tricked me into wrapping everything. She did. And what a great trick. Such a good site. So yeah. If you have children that need encouragement. You're so good at the dishes.

You're, oh my God, why are you so good at that? Like here's, here's what that bread, and this was my favorite thing. I used to do this thing at my parents' house. I would take down all the pictures on the walls and wrap them like presents and hang them back up. And that was part of our Christmas decoration. That's darling. It's not good.

Don't look at your family's stupid faces anymore, but that's just lovely. So it would be like instead of, because my everything in my parents' house is like a picture of a huge fire my dad fought. That's like part of. Bought? Thought. There was a fire in like a South Market in San Francisco in the 80s, 90s where it burned down like seven blocks of this neighborhood and he fought it and they fought it all night.

And so there's a picture of him just standing in front of it. It's a panoramic. Karen, picture. How did this not, this fucked you up. How did I not know this? You had fires. Pictures of fires. Yes.

That had to just give you a level of anxiety, all like a con. That is crazy. You see that that's bananas. Right? It's like having a fucking huge painting of a fucking shark. Like eating a person and then being like, Hey, here's a thing. Yeah. It's like, it's almost like it was just this subconscious.

That's why I'm always like, let's make sure we've always got two exits. Yeah. Like right now. Well, we could go out this window, but if there was a fire downstairs, we could get trapped up here. No, no, we can go out this window. We can go out this window. Yeah.

Yeah. Landing. It's a walkable. Yeah. Honey. Honey. I'm very, I'm very aware of exits at all time and how I would get out or how people can come in them.

Yes. More so probably. Yep. But not for the same reason. Right. We had a giant picture of a burglar as a kid sneaking into the house. It was someone Janet arrested at close time. Yeah.

I don't think it fucked me up or anything. I think I'm fine. I'm fine. That's so hilarious. I've never thought of this at all. Yeah. That's like red flag. Just city.

Don't expose your children to horror scenes. Look at this. A huge girl. And also this thing of my mother, I remember my mom telling me at a young age, she's like, I think your father and I, the marriage lasted for so long because every time he left the house, he could have died. So every time he came back, she was so grateful and like, it was like, oh yeah. Yeah.

Nothing bad happened to him. That's sweet. I have that too. But only because I have bad anxiety that every time Ben sleeps in the house, I'm like, be careful. Like even just when he was leading the night tonight, I was like, where's the belt? Be careful. Be careful.

Of course. Yeah. But that is, you have to, part of that might be anxiety. And then part of it is you get to express like, I want you to stick around. That's good. Yeah. That's a good, you guys have a healthy relationship in that way. I think so too.

I think it's nice. Our therapist thinks so too. Do they? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're not being sarcastic. No.

Okay. I mean, I'm pretty certain we're his favorite. I really do. And sometimes he'll say, do you ever want to leave this guy? I'll marry him. He's not gay. But he loves Vince. Well, Vince has that thing.

And I know it can be irritating because he is kind of like the homecoming king. Everyone loves that fucking guy. I know. But everyone loves me too. No, no, no. Everyone loves you. So we're great together. But he has that thing where like suddenly he's running the bar.

He's that guy. I know. And he's like, who needs a drink? He's that. He's like the consummate. Like he makes it so that people love him. Whereas you're a subtle. You're a subtle.

Tie that shit down as soon as possible. Yeah. You were like, first date. You're with me. It's crappening. Love it. Yeah. All right.

Bye you guys. Bye. What? What? Wow. 45 minutes of just pure not with this podcast. It's about. But you know, we haven't had that much time to like just get into what's really going

on with us because we were like, announce this and announce that I was just going to announce something. Now I feel weird. Do it. Fucking. One of the most downloaded podcasts of 2018 on fucking iTunes. Do you see that is us? Oh, sorry.

Joe Rogan. Congratulations. Congratulations to Joe Rogan. You've done. You've done great. No, no. I thought for a second. I thought you meant this podcast will kill you because oh, we got to give a shout out

to all the exactly right people real quick. Yes. Oh my God. Everyone's killing it. Yes. Exactly right. I mean, that's our podcast network. We just came out with a bunch.

The, this podcast will kill you has an episode about rabies that I was listening to last night. That's so fucking good. And they are killing it. You're killing it. The following is incredible. The new season is amazing about all these, these babies that were fucking kidnapped in Atlanta.

Of course. The percast. Every, but we got the official numbers and like the business side and everyone's like went so far beyond the, what they projected and everyone charted and it was such a beautiful debut. Thank you guys so much for listening, for downloading. That's the way just so you know, if you want to like make that hit is when you download podcasts, that's, that's, those are the numbers that people pay attention to.

I didn't know that. Yeah. Also, when you review, when you write a little like, love it, five stars, like that really helps too. Yeah. So if you want to do that, that's awesome. And thank you all for, there was so much support and you guys went to all those new episodes.

Oh, also season, season one, episode two, do you need to run? That's right. You're charting the shit out of that, dominating the comedy chart. It's so exciting because Chris and I have been so low key, like we were like, should we do another episode? We've been so like trying to, trying to focus on it, but trying to do a bunch, obviously a bunch of other stuff too, Chris is like on the road doing tons of performing or whatever. So we're just like, should we do one?

And the idea that when we finally get it together and put it out, all these people are just like, I've been waiting, God damn you guys, put these out consistently and like, oh, we, we spent years and years thinking no one really cares and who cares. And so it's, it's so lovely and thank you guys so much for all of that support. That's what I thought you were talking about. No, itunes just came out with the best of 2018 and you click on that fucking most downloaded and we're on that with a bunch of other fucking incredible people, probably Joe Rogan, including definitely Joe Rogan.

Dr. Death is on there too, which is like, I just have a real connection because that, that podcast got under my skin in so many ways. It's such a good podcast. Let's see who else, but they don't need shout outs. They're all, they're all, they're downloaded. They're great. We're all fine. Our friend.

Yeah. Oh, yes. That's right. Stuff you should know. Stuff you should know. I was going to say how did this get made, which is another great podcast, but it's Stuff You Should Know. Yeah.

Chuck, of course. Chuck. You should know our friend. They did great. Congratulations guys. NPR, Serial. It's all those ones. You know, so thank you.

Obvious and then some of the fun ones that you're like, oh, that's so cool that we're part of that. The Pods of America, obviously, but then to just be on that with them. It's a huge honor and it's a, it's you guys, you know, it's you guys making it happen. And downloading that shit. That's right. So thank you. Thanks guys.

And we have more, we're so excited for the new podcast that we're going to be adding to the slate. So it's like, we're going to be adding and adding. So just get ready because we've got a bunch more coming that we're so excited and that you are going to be very excited about. Yeah. We promise and we're teasing you. Yeah.

All right. I can't talk about it. We can't talk about it. I think you're first. Really? Yeah. Right. Is it true, Steven?

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every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton Serial Killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions.

Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast Killer Psyche Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Luckily, so I opened my file, I actually started a file called Unread Murders that I have. Nice. I should have done that a long fucking time ago. And it's a lot of them as I said before because there was the Todd Allen Read that I did, the force part killer that I did last time was a leftover from a Portland where I was

like, oh right, I got to do that. So I'd been doing a couple of those where I'm like, just move that over into this area and you'll use it later when you have seven full-time jobs and you can't actually do the show that you should be actually paying attention to. So this is one of those from when we were in Atlanta on tour and I had this one already but it was just kind of short and pretty basic and it's really old so there's not a ton of information. But right.

So today at four o'clock when I was at baskets in the writer's room where we're in like serious rewrites and then I just went, oh my God, I don't know if I have a story for tonight. And then I looked that one up and then had to text Steven and go, have I done this already? Yeah, I've done that multiple times. Because I was like, I was looking at the words and going, I absolutely can see. This is familiar. Yeah, it's familiar but it's because I'm the one that put it on paper. Anyway, I'm right on the edge of mental collapse and here we go.

This is the first murder to happen in the state of Georgia back in the 1700s. And this is the story of Alice Riley. It's so old and weird and random in all these different ways that yeah, it's so crazy. So I just tell you some things. Let's see what happens. Let's do it. Alice Riley was born around 1718 in Ireland. You've been there.

Yep. In 1733, she was 15 years old. This is when everybody's trying to leave Ireland because of disease and the famine that the British actually forced. People love to talk about, oh, the potato famine when no one could grow potatoes. Ha, ha, ha. They grew potatoes. They grew them.

They grew potatoes again. The British came in, shipped all that food out, starved everybody out, colonization. But the only way to get out of Ireland if you didn't have money yourself was you had your fare paid by someone who would then employ you when you got to America or the New World or whatever it was back in the 1700s. You know. You've been there. You know.

You historians know what I'm talking about and no one else does. So a man named William Wise paid her $5 boat fare. How much was it back then? $5 in today's money. The amount of a Carnival cruise, $3,000. But without that beautiful buffet. Yeah. There's no buffet on her boat.

She just got to throw up under deck. No zip lining. There was no. There wasn't one of those weird, small, but deep pools. Yeah. Have you ever seen a cruise ship? I've never been on a cruise ship. No, girl.

Are they horrible? No, no. There's, but, but you can only have, I mean, I'm not talking about the zipline Carnival Cruises where now they're making them like cities, floating cities. But like the last time I was on a cruise there in the pool area, it's the pool is like 10 feet long, but then it's like 35 feet deep. It's like, we can't fit them all in here. Go down there.

Just go down low. So anyway, she, a man named William Wise paid for her $5 boat fare and that meant that she would be his indentured servant for seven years. What could go wrong? Right? I mean, it's like, oh, that's okay. So I have a chance to, at least I'm leaving this, this place where the British are trying to colonize us, I'll go to America and just be an indentured servant and that'll be great.

So on the boat, she's either already traveling with her common law husband, Richard White, which is the boring and unlikely version since she was 15 and your common law by living together for seven years. So unless she shacked up with Richard when she was eight, it seems like the better option, the more romantic and cinematic option is that she met Richard White on the boat. Let's go with that. Right? So she throws up over the side, comes up, wipes her mouth off on her shawl, turns and

there's this beautiful Irishman standing next to her and she's like, I'm going over there. Somebody paid my $5. Yeah. I'm going to be an indentured servant. He's like, me too. Oh my God. What's your guy's name? He's also there to work for William Watts.

No way. Yes. So that's also an indicator that it makes more sense that they would have been a couple and then going to work for the same person, but I don't like that version of the story. Yeah. It's not as fun. No. Anyway, it's all vague and we can fill on our own.

In the rewrite, can we, oh, I have, I have rewrites. Well, let's hear one. Well, can we go with like, they were, they weren't working for the same guy. They were like neighbor, going to be like working for neighbors because like, it's too much if it's like they were working for the same guy. Yeah, true. So it's like what if the estates are on the same wooded path and then she's walking, yes, she's got her bucket of berries and then here comes, I don't know, a Killian Murphy

type. Okay. And then she's just like, what's up? What's up on your estate? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. And he's like, God, you look so much better off the boat. I love that. You're not barfing anymore. You're not seasick and gray-faced. All right. So here's the amazing part and this is true and real and still very cinematic. Okay.

The ship that they are both on crashes into Savannah. So remember when we were in Georgia, like Atlanta, Savannah's right on the coast. And so basically this ship where they're like, oh, this has been the worst and I have the worst seasickness and then it just crashes. They forget to put the brakes on and they're like, land how? Like everybody wants to sleep. I just do one of those like cartoons that are like, that show like the boat crashing, you know, like from the map.

They show the map. Yes. And it goes along. There's a sea monster. They crash right into Savannah. Great. And as the cold went her night, most of the passengers on board drowned. Shit.

And Alice Riley and her new hot boyfriend, what's his name, Richard White, they both survived. They swim to shore and they make it. So they bond over that. Sure. And so if they weren't in love before, god damn it, wouldn't you love that man? Absolutely. That also survived.

That's a sign about his jeans. Anyway, so they drag themselves from the wreckage. They're brought to William Wise's cattle farm on Hutchinson Island, which is across from the city of Savannah. And they're, so William Wise, they meet, they meet William Wise. Okay. There. How's it going?

Not great. He's known as a scallywag. Who is it? In the 1700s. In the 1700s. It's anybody, anybody with his, uh, Yeah. Chops.

Yeah. Like, look at that fucking scallywag. Um, but he, this guy's a crete. Okay. So she's dreading being a maid anyway, she's like, oh, I'm going to be a maid for seven years. Not, you know, that's like half your fucking expected life expectancy back then. Yeah.

She's like, well, I can get, I, okay, fine. I'm an old lady of 22. Yes. I'm an old maid of 22. Um, I just met this great guy. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm going to be a maid for seven years.

Then she finds out that she also has to attend to him by picking lice out of his matted hair. No. Uh-huh. This, that's how they did it back then. They didn't have combs. They just had girls. Do you know what? I think that's above my pay grade.

That's what I would say. I'm sorry. That's above my pay grade. I didn't sign up for this shit. She was the first person to ever say that phrase in 17, 18, 19, um, 100. So this one's already gone way off, way off. Real fun. She also had to clean crumbs out of his long greasy beard and while fending off his lecherous

advances because there was no sexual harassment seminars back then. She just started that job and was off to the races. Oh, you're right. He was abusive and cruel to Alice and her boyfriend, Richard. I'm calling her, him her boyfriend. So by 1734, this old guy falls ill and that's when Alice and Richard have to start bathing him daily, right? So we go from bad to worse.

But I mean, is it bad to worse? It's like, at least he's taking a bath every day because I bet, yeah, he wasn't doing that before. Yeah. Made. He's taking a daily fucking ritual right in his life. No, exactly. We're certainly not combing his hair and putting it back into a, into like a guitar center

ponytail where it's like, I'm not rocking on the stage right now. I'm here to sell some right guitar strings. So I'll put it back into a clean and, and shiny ponytail so it doesn't get in the food. Not this guy. Look, you know how guitars that are now serves food, that lovely buffet, that gorgeous buffet down front. So, so they have to wash it, bathe him. Great.

Not the greatest. It's uncertain whether Richard and Alice plotted the murder beforehand or if it was just a lark. Is that's a cut and paste if I've ever seen one? Because you normally would not use that word when it comes. That's not the word that's correct in the sentence. Nope. Unless I was just being weird, which is very possible.

Yeah. Thank you. I love that. I love which things I've unplagiarized and which I actually have plagiarized. Oh, I guess I'll make this, I'll personalize this to myself. Yeah. Thank you Wikipedia. Well, that doesn't sound like me though.

Yeah, I know. Oh, I just donated money to Wikipedia by the way. I was like, good. They were like, we need money. And I was like, I owe them so much money. Someone on Twitter. Sorry, I didn't write it down. Just tweeted.

I just donated $20 to Twitter like and thought of you guys. It's like, thank you so much. Twitter and Wikipedia. Sorry, they donated. Don't donate money to, listen, do not give your money to Twitter. No. No, nothing. No.

She's sorry. She tweeted that she donated $20 to Wikipedia. Yeah, it was nice. And she shall remain nameless even though I bet she doesn't want to. Thanks. Her name's Georgia. Yeah. So, okay.

So on March 16th, 1734, while Richard was bathing William, he took his necrochiff and strangled the gross old man in the bathtub. That's me for sure. That's awful. Alice held his head underwater to make sure he was dead. So they're not sure, obviously, if it was pre-planned and like that or if it was just in that moment of like, I can't take this anymore and he's gross and old anyway. Yeah.

You take your necrochiff off. It sounds like a spur of the moment kind of thing. Yeah, it does. And just like that, what the final straw where he was like, look at the bubbles I'm making or whatever. I hate your necrochiff and he's like, oh, you do? Do you really? Want to get a close-up look of it?

Do you really? Because you're a withered old man sitting in a thing of like not even hot water. They're bathing him and there's no running water indoors. They have to bring the water in to bathe the old creep. A bath is a four hour ordeal, I said. And there's so many liver spots that you can barely see any of the bubbles. There was a bubble bath back there. That he was farting.

Oh, I thought you meant he was farting in the bath tub. No. All right. Okay. So you're doing great. You're almost there. I'm there. I'm so there.

Here's my eyes. Alice held us. I said that already. Then they fled to South Carolina where locals were fired up about servants killing their masters. So they all helped with the manhunt. So basically they were just like, oh, we can't have this if you're an indentured servant. You don't get to kill anybody.

Yeah. Now we get to kill you. You're going to have fun like everyone else does. Yeah, exactly. You can't have any rights, much less you don't get to exact justice on anybody. So Alice and Richard are easily found because everyone's out and after them and brought back to Georgia for trial. So a magistrate named Thomas Costin promptly sentenced them both to hang.

So their trial was basically like, what's this? You say? Guilty. It lasted that long. So now there's two stories about as to how things has to how I didn't write that. As to how things transpired. One is that Richard was hung first in the gallows. And then when Alice saw that he got hung, she freaked out, started screaming and saying

she was pregnant. And then they halted her execution until they could determine if this was true. And but Alice Riley is known as the first person to be hanged in the colony of Georgia. And so that means he couldn't have gone first because why he would be the first person hung in Georgia. Sure. So get your facts straight. Everyone.

I mean, get your facts straight. The oldest possible murder I could be talking about. That's very difficult. Yeah. They didn't have Wikipedia back then. No, they sure didn't. It was all rumor and gossip. What if he didn't even have lice and we're just besmirching the name of a lice free

estate holder 100 percent talking about another version has heard just telling magistrate straight out I'm pregnant. So that both executions are postponed. Either way, the doctors confirmed she's pregnant and her execution is postponed for eight months. So that did happen. And she was pregnant. Most people assume that the baby was wise William Wise's the old creeps. Because he was raping her daily.

Holy shit. But Alice wore the babies was Richard's. Yeah. So they allow her to give birth to the child. It's a boy and he's adopted two weeks later. Wow. So then on January 19th, 1735, Alice Riley is taken to Percival Square, which is now called Wright Square, which was also known as Hanging Square.

I wonder why. And then she was hanged. Oh. Oh, there you go. As she was being hung, Alice has said to have screamed at the crowd gathered to watch her execution that she had cursed the area. Right? That'd be exciting.

Yeah, yeah. And then the legend has it that it took three days for her to die. And that her body was left hanging in the gallows, but then disappeared during the night. So Alice Riley was the first person executed in the new colony of Georgia. So that first version couldn't have been the truth. And I sussed it out. I'm the one that figured it out. You're smart.

Thank you. Her lover, Richard White, was hung the next day. The newborn child put up for adoption died soon after. Tragedy all around, right? So now we get to the haunting part. There's a haunting part? There's a haunting part. And it is really cool because it wasn't enough for a live show, but this is a haunting where

they have tons of people who witness it and see it often. Is it a ghost, baby? It's a ghost adult. So to this day, this Sipfana police get calls from tourists about a woman who's wandering in right square looking for a baby and asking them for help. No. Yes. The police know it's Alice, so they always send out the rookies to go check on it.

And the ghost often appears as a real person and she consistently appears to mothers with infants and strollers. So it's a lady walking up with period costume, but the tourists don't recognize it. They don't see it as anything weird. Because there's so much in that area, it's there's reenactors and there's tours and stuff of like, this is this historical hanging square. So they just turn around and there's a lady in period clothes going, I lost my baby. And then they go, oh my God, what happened?

And they try to help her and she disappears. Does she disappear or does she walk away? Because what if it's actually a woman in a reenactment woman who's just, who's like, I'm just out here to fuck with some people. Absolutely. So here's the witnesses describe the woman as being dressed in period clothing. I just told you that part, but there's a picture. Somebody took a picture of her running away from the camera.

Could be fake, fun to talk about, and you can look it up online. And it's like this weird, you can see it's a move, like it's a, I think from what I remember, it was nighttime and she's running. So there's like, it's a flashy looking thing of like a body moving away, but it was like someone going, this is so weird. Steven's got it. Of course he's got it. Thank you, Steven.

Oh, because I pulled, we pulled this for the show, right? Oh, let me see, let me see. Steven's pointing at me like we're playing charades right now. On the nose. You talk on this podcast, Steven. Let me see, let me see. Look at that. I want a painting of that.

Hand it over. Wait. Oh, that's creepy as fuck. Right? Yeah. Cause it's almost like she got up to close to the person, helped me find my baby and then, and then ran away and the lady's like, hold on, that's weird. And then took the picture.

I know. Creepy. We'll put it up on our Instagram. I really love this picture. Yeah. Then there's some, then there's some fake ghost pictures underneath. Stop looking at pictures, Karen. There's some fake ghost pictures under the real ghost picture.

Yes. That's how you know. The first ghost picture is so real. It's, it's weird. Those other ones are fake. Fake. Fake. Here's a thing I like.

To this day, Spanish moss does not grow on the side of the trees, the north side of the trees that face the gallows. I don't get it. I don't. Is that a riddle? So all these trees have moss on them, but they, it won't grow on the side that face the gallows. That doesn't taste the sun.

So good. They don't get any sun. The easily explainable biological reason. I'm such a skeptic, I'm so sorry. But don't you see that moss, which is the most sensitive of all lichens? It's like they're protesting. It's, they're facing bad vibes and you're like, it's been 300 years, you can stop protesting. They're like, no, we can't, we saw what happened.

Okay. Well, that's creepy. And then I wrote, her curse worked on the moss and then I wrote, here's a final line. And that's the fast and poorly told story of the hanging of Alice Riley. But there's picture, like there's art of her. It was just basically the, a murder, the first murder happened in Georgia, like the first hanging because of the murder. I love it.

So, you know, what I'm saying is I love Irish girls, whatever that shirt is, Irish girls getting it done. And then there's like a little gallows. Great job. Not really. I feel like the show has a theme. Wait, that was low hanging moss. That was stupid.

Wonderful. Good job. You did it though. You know what? And it was fun. Here's what I did. I did it. You did the thing.

I did do it. It was fun. We had some fun with it. I bet you, here's the thing. People, people, please send us if you know personal Alice Riley stories or you ever had Alice Riley come up and ask you where her baby was. I just think that that, could you imagine, that idea alone of just a woman that's like please help me find my baby would be the scariest thing ever.

Truly. Especially when you have a baby. Yes. I'd be like, don't touch mine. Yeah. Bitch. But then you're like, oh, now I'm cold. Yeah.

Now the moss is gone. And now I'm trying to take a selfie with her because she's a period person and she's running. Why would she run that scary? Don't take a selfie with me. I have an Instagram post. Bitch. I have a baby.

I have a mommy Instagram. It's five o'clock somewhere. I'm a mommy. I'm a mommy. I love wine. I'm a mommy. Give me that one. Mommy culture.

Wine me. Wine me, baby. Less whining and more whining. Yes. Right. Okay. I'm going to do mine. Okay.

Great. But I'm going to pee first. Okay. Sorry. Before you start. Can I just, because Steven found that tweet. Yeah. Thank you, Steven.

It was from Alexis H. I don't, do we say people's full names if they tweet to us? Just their Twitter handle. Well, they're, it is. So Alexis holds her on Twitter. She wrote to us, I just donated $21 to Wikipedia. Support free knowledge, but mainly keep Karen Kulgarov and Georgia Hearthstark supplied with information for my favorite murder. Say sexy and keep Wikipedia running.

And then she put the link for donation. That's so nice. Thank you, Alexis. That was very cool. Thanks, Alexis. Truly, this podcast with end would end if Wikipedia ended. I just don't, I don't rely on it. And there's not a ton of shit at all, at all times.

It's kind of just like a base. You need to check the basic facts and then you have to read a ton of articles. I mean, Reddit's better for information than Wikipedia. But you also have to be very trusting on Reddit. I guess the same as Wikipedia, but Wikipedia has a little bit of a Reddit's more like, I heard in my high school classroom that where that's the shit I love. But who knows what you're, who knows what you're getting. It's all true.

How have we not talked about fucking Kristos and getting arrested? Oh my God. We forgot to talk about, in the beginning of this true crime show, we forgot to talk about the true crime fucking news of the week. If you haven't listened to the podcast Teacher's Pet, you have to listen to it. It is so good. It's so well done. It's Australian.

It's, it's the, oh shit. The Australian. The Australian. Oh, that's right. The newspaper, The Australians Podcast. And it's about a woman, a mother of two who was married to this rugby star who went fucking randomly missing in like 1980 something. And they're, they're investigating it clearly the fucking, like my t-shirt says, the husband

did it. Yes. And finally fucking got arrested like this week. And the details of it and the, the pain of the people telling the story, obviously because they talked to family members, but they also talked to these friends and neighbors. And it's that thing of, you know, it might be Australian culture. It might be whatever it is, but people back then didn't get into each other's business. So when they heard these things and they heard the, oh, she's gone and she went away.

She joined a cult. She joined a cult, all these things. They weren't going to be like fighting with people on the street of like, no, she didn't because they didn't know. Especially when there's no, yeah. There's no, and when it's that kind of thing with a lot of these cult cases, it's once you put, you know, eight, eight people have one little fact, each one a different one. And you don't realize how you put them all together that tells a story, which is so interesting.

But it was so well done in it. So clearly was done in this way. That reporter, Stephen, do you mind? Would you please be my brain? But the reporter who put this podcast together, who narrates it was so good at it, clearly is an investigative reporter for the Australian and, and just was like, this has to change in this case. And they, it would interview these people, all those people, the neighbors and the friends

were so well-spoken and made me go, is there Australian public school system amazing because no, because he was working at them and fucking was screwing all the 16 year old girls and treating the one that he moved in as like the day after Lynn went fucking missing, which is a child molestation. I mean, absolutely. That fucking creep. Yes. There was a terrible culture of, of silence and kind of like, we get to do what we want

because we're rugby stars or because we're cops or because we're whatever. And they wouldn't, they wouldn't fucking prosecute him even though to, I mean, it's just an amazing story of like, of like letting, letting her down. Yes. And but the people who, there are people who are so pained over it because they were like, I should have done something. They're so well-spoken. They're so emotionally intelligent.

It's just a very satisfying podcast to listen to. It's very gripping. And then there's actually, there's a, there's something comes of it. Amazing. The teacher's pet is headed by a gold, Waukely winning investigative reporter, Headley Thomas. Headley Thomas. Thank you. Headley Thomas.

That's right. What a great job he does. And then it, I mean, he got the job done. That's right. It must be so satisfying. I'm sure it's like, he'd be like, there's so many people involved who helped me and blah, blah, blah of it. I'd like to thank my publicist.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, Headley. Headley. Take it. Go for it. It's a great podcast. My story kind of, I found it kind of because of one. Okay.

Hold on, Steven. So did I. The Alice Riley podcast. It's coming out of Galway, Ireland. That'd be amazing. Yes. So Karen, I text you over the weekend how obsessed I am with this podcast, Bear Brook. Yes.

I'm put up by New Hampshire, New Hampshire Public Radio, the story starts with, I'm sure you guys have heard that if you're in a true crime, there's bodies found in barrels in the New Hampshire woods and goes on to tell one of the most amazing fucking truth. Like if you're, if you need to get someone into true crime, this is the perfect fucking story because it goes into so many different directions. It's really incredible. Yes. Like honestly, there's so many parts where you're just screaming.

Yeah. And featuring friend of the show, Billy Johnson, true crime reporter, Billy Johnson, who this, the bodies in the barrels has been a cold case that he's been obsessed with for years. Yeah. And it, and it just keeps getting crazier and crazier. It does. It's an incredible fucking story. Like I want to make Vince listen to it so he gets why I'm so obsessed with this shit.

Yeah. So bodies and barrels made me think of one of the forensic files and like cold case files that stuck with me forever, yes, of a body in a barrel. This is the murder of Raina Mariquin. Okay. Do you know this one? I'm sure you know this one. I don't know.

Tell me. Well, I'm going to tell you. Okay. Tell me please. So on September 2nd, 1999, here we are fucking dawn of the internet age. You really put me there. There you go. Uh, you know, the dial up and shit, whatever a dude named Ron is moving out of his family.

They're moving the family out of the home in their upper middle class neighborhood of Jericho, Long Island. So like lovely little probably bedroom community, whatever the fuck. During the final walk through, uh, with the new, with the buyer, uh, they go, they go into the crawl space that's under the den. And the new buyer is like, Hey, that, that fucking 55 gallon rusted drum that's been stashed in the fucking 36 inch crawl space under the rear den since Ron's family and moved in 10 years earlier, you need to get that fucking thing out of here before I buy

this house. That's the last thing that you need to do. Yeah. And Ron says, I was annoyed, but I'll do it. Um, it weighs 345 pounds. Uh, they had seen, he remember seeing it when they moved in too heavy to move. Forgot about it 10 years later. Um, now he needs to dispose of it.

So he has the movers help him bring it to the curb, uh, to have the trash men or women garbage sanitation workers, um, to take it away. But the next day after the fucking garbage man, women, uh, sanitation workers come, it's still there. And they left a note that was like, yo dude, a, this could be toxic waste. We don't know what's in it. B is too fucking heavy. You need to like empty it out before we'll take it, or you need to do something else

with it. But like we're not, we're not taking it. Yeah. You have to get rid of this responsibly. Exactly. So he's like, all right, fuck this shit. He gets a neighbor, they pry the lid off with a screwdriver and are immediately when the fucking top comes off are hit with this insane smell that's, they're gagging.

It's the worst smell they've ever smelled in their lives. Yeah. Mm hmm. Guess what's in it? There's a green liquid sludge inside and floating at the top of that sludge. They see a hand and a shoe that's still on the person, uh, at the top of the liquid. No. Yeah.

So they call the police and minutes later at Nassau County police arrive and confirm there's a body in the barrel, which is like, duh, we knew that dudes. The barrels taken to the medical examiner, they begin the process of extracting the remains, which takes hours and there's like photos and video, the whole fucking thing. No. Of course I looked at all of them. Don't do it. Why it's fun.

It's not. It's fascinating. They drain the green industrial liquid and they don't know what the liquid is and they also find thousands of small plastic pellets, like little, it looks like the inside of a bean bag. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And they're able to remove the body eventually, which had inadvertently become mummified. Because it's in there so long. Yeah. And the items, other items, they had all been like really well preserved because the barrel had that airtight seal. Right. So everything was mummified. They determine that the body is of a young female between the ages of 20 and 30, probably

white or Hispanic. When they X-ray the body, they find that the victim was nine months pregnant. Oh no. Yeah. The victim's cause of death is blunt force trauma to the skull. It looks like she's been hit maybe 10 times in the back of the head. It's crazy. They aren't able to get fingerprints because she'd been mummified, but they get a clue

to her identity because first of all, her unusual dental work and the autopsy dude was from South America and identified her dental work as being from South America. Oh. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. He was good at his job. Right.

Would that be the medical examiner? Thank you. Yes. Autopsy dude? Cause I was like, is that the corner? But that's a different, that's not necessarily the same thing. No. Medical examiner is completely right.

Okay. Thank you, law and order. And then they noticed that the victim, they were like, how long has this body been here? They noticed that she's wearing a style of dress that's like indicative of the 1960s. Whoa. So they're like, this is, this looks way older than, you know, a decade. She's wearing, she's still totally dressed in a skirt, button down sweater, high socks and shoes and a coat, a leopard print coat.

And so they think that maybe this could have happened decades earlier. Whoa. This 1999 member dialogue. They were able to estimate that she's been dead from 25 to 30 years. Whoa. Yeah. So she still has on some jewelry and in the fucking barrel along with the body is her purse.

Jesus Christ. Yeah. So they, the medical examiner looks in the purse, they find like everything that she would have thrown in there, compact, her fucking comb, an eyelash curler. And they also find a small little paper address book that of course is so deteriorated from the body fluids and whatever this green sledge is that they can't read anything that's in it. They said that it was like so delicate, you could have just pushed your finger through

it. Yeah. But they're hopeful that maybe if they can get this fucking thing dried out and shit that it can give them a clue as to who this woman is because they don't know who she is still. Okay. So detective, her name is Joan Fiertner. She's a forensic document examiner and she is think she could remove some of the writing

even though it's deteriorated. She places a book. It's like this is fucking newfangled forensic thing. It's a drawing cabinet and hopes the victim's handwriting would appear as the moisture evaporated. And it took, it was so painstaking. It was like one piece of paper every four hours would dry off enough and she had to use this crazy ruler to like to turn the pages otherwise they would have just disintegrated

but she's able to kind of piece some stuff out. Wow. I bet that part of a job like that is so satisfying. So rewarding. Because it really is like, it's a puzzle that actually matters. Yeah. It's like, it's not fucking Garfield leading on lasagna. It's like you put these pieces together and you can actually solve a cold case.

You can like find a missing person. You need a murder of a nine month pregnant fucking woman. Yes. That's someone's daughter, sister, somebody. It sounds amazing. Yeah. So meanwhile, while Dr. Fertner is trying to figure out this address book, hey, let's go over to the detectives in the meantime.

They are like, how do we find out where this barrel came from? Let's dig into the history of the house. First they're like, no one's stupid enough to put a fucking barrel with a dead body that they killed in their own fucking house. That is stupid. So and no one and like sneaking by is going to just like be like, I'm going to stash this body here. So they're like, well, what about the people?

So the crawl space had been an add on. So they're like, what about maybe the construction workers who had made this crawl space? Right. So they look up the details. They find out it was made in 1980. And so they go find the dude who owned the home in 1980 and he's like, no, I remember the crawl space wasn't built then. It was built before we moved in.

I remember seeing that barrel too. My kids played hide and seek behind it and shit. Like it was there before that. And then they realized that the that the crawl space permit was misdated and actually built way before. Oh. So they look into the owners of the home throughout the years and they find that there are four different owners for the past 30 years.

And when they question about the owners, they all mention like, we saw it. We couldn't move it. We ignored it. Can I just say one thing? Yeah. Yeah. The person who misdated that permit. Yeah.

I want to talk to them. I want to talk to this entire thing up. Well, also, did you have something to do with it? Like that's very convenient. Oh. Just putting it out there. So maybe the person who, who filed the, yeah, that's a good point, the murderous government worker.

That's right. Of some kind. Or the person who was asking for the permit purposely misdated it. Yeah. Because that was back when you could probably like lick your thumb and rub it on there and then just do it. You make a six and do an eight pretty easily, right? You're like, look mom and eight plus.

Exactly. I'm not going to reject. I'm terrible at. Right. That's slightly smudged. Spit. Don't worry about it. Anyway.

Anyway, give me a cupcake. I got A's. Okay. But one owner in particular fucking red flag city over here, his name's Howard Elkins. The guy who, the detective who got this case, his name is Detective Robert Edwards. He's like a badass legend. Everyone's like in awe of him. At the time he's one of the longest serving homicide detectives ever.

So he doesn't get the like fucking jaywalking cases like this guy is, he's like bring me the real stuff. Yeah. They're like, great. Here's this insane thing. Yeah. So he says about this guy. Howard Elkins.

He was very tall, good looking, distinguished businessman. He had owned the house from 1959 through 1972 and he had also owned in town a plastics factory called Melrose Plastics. Did they specialize in tiny, tiny pellets? Let's keep going. I'm sorry. I just want to guess. Okay.

They specialize in beanbag filling. I just want to show I am good at this even though my story, I told does not reflect that. Karen is the longest serving amateur detective in history. That's right. I've grown my mustache out. In podcast history. So they are, these fucking smart people are able to trace the numbers. They trace the numbers that are printed on the barrel to the fucking barrel company.

Yeah. I guess that's just fucking, who would have thought like I'm going to open a barrel company. You know what the thing I've never told you about myself is I'm actually a barrel heiress. I don't want people to. Are you a barrel baron? Yeah. I'm inheriting a barrel fortune. You always need them.

We've got the oil people. And no one thinks to make them because everyone's like making a shit that goes in them. Just my genius grandfather. So smart. I was like, what if I'm, you can fill the barrel with whatever you want. I'm making the barrel. You have to buy it. Yeah.

Yeah. Start it. Fuck it. Start it. Start it up. I love it. Container. Container store.

That's not a plug. Okay. So this fucking barrel company is like, yeah, dude, we, I know that barrel number. We used to sell barrels to Merrill, to Melrose plastics in the 70s for sure. What's up? Connected. Connected. The green pigment from the drum was used to dye the concrete and plaster.

Okay. So here's the thing. Here's what Melrose plastics did. Melrose plastic makes fake flowers. Oh. One of the things that was found in the barrel besides those pellets in the green sledge was the, and then you can see a photo of it, the fucking, uh, like leaves from fake flowers. Creepy.

Creepy as fuck. They found that the green pigment from the, that was in the drum, that industrial shit, was the dye that they used to dye the concrete and plaster bases that held the plastic flowers and trees produced at the Elkins workshop. Ew. So that plastic, I think that that, those pellets for the plastic that they melted down and turned into the plastic flowers. Got it.

So that's like the pre-flower. Yep. You know what I mean? Yes. I think so. Um, in a telephone interview with the New York Times, uh, Mr. Elkins acknowledged that he had bought the house new in 1957, had lived in it for 15 years before selling and moving to Florida in 1972.

And uh, yes, he had built the den off the kitchen that created the crawl space. And had he ever gone in the crawl space, he said, what for? Never been in there. I never went in the crawl space. Mm. Liar. Well, for lots of things, like say, uh, you got a raccoon got in there. Right.

You want a store, your basic shit that you, you murder somebody and you want to hide a body. Right. But for all reasons, and those are the only ones, uh, days later. So detectives are like, great. They make a trip to Howlandale Beach, Florida, where they tracked down, this says 80 year old, but I heard 70 year old and other things, but who knows. Oh, no, no, no, I'm sorry.

They tracked down 80 year old Melvin Gantman. He's a retired businessman and Elkins former partner. Uh-oh. They show him a picture of the barrel and he's like, yeah, that was definitely one of our fucking barrels. We use those for sure. Fucking barrels are the best. I know those barrels.

Right. Um, they ask him if they had, and if he had any idea about a dead pregnant woman found inside one of them that was found under, uh, the Elkins former Long Island home. And he's like, yeah, we used to, we used to, uh, make, manufacture plastic flowers using young immigrant women as line workers. Uh-oh. Mm-hmm. He said, I remember that, uh, Elkins had become involved with one of them and had an

affair with her way back then. We go. Here it is. He described the girl as exotic and beautiful with long dark hair and her two front teeth had been gold or shed gold fillings, but he couldn't remember her name, but all of that fit with the body. And that's the interesting dental work. That's right.

The Emmy. Oh man. But they still don't know who she is. And there's no missing persons report from back then either, like of someone fitting that description. Right. So let's go back to fucking Nassau County Crime Lab where Dr. Fertner is fucking working with paper and shit.

Yes. Yeah. She detects faint markings on the dry pages, but they're still unreadable. So she uses a video spectral comparator. Right. Right. You know, I have one. It's, it, they're so convenient.

Yeah. Yeah. They just have to have one. Yeah. When you need to compare one thing to the other. Every house needs one. Get a spectral version of it. Well, back then it was a new cutting age machine that allowed her to look through, now we use

these every day in our everyday lives now, but back in 1999. Wait, are you being sarcastic? Yes. I was like, really? How? Oh, you really do want one now? No, we don't know what they are and it's probably dated as fuck already. Right.

Yes. Exactly. She looks through the infrared and ultraviolet ranges of the spectrum outside of the range of the eye that, that, that, that sure. So she scans the, it's the part on forensic files and everything turns blue. Right. I think it's part on forensic files where everything is dated because it's, because it's 1997.

Exactly. So she scans the address book pages and is able to detect under this ultraviolet thing the victim's handwriting. And on one page she found the phrase social security number and on another she finds the word Residencia Nombre, which she's like, this must be her fucking, her, what's it called? Immigration number. Thank you. Is that a thing?

Yes. That's what it is. Okay. That's correct. So she had to go to immigration and they're able to use her fucking number from 1967 to track down who this person was. Her name is Reina Merquin. She's 25 years old in 1966 when she immigrated to New York from El Salvador.

And she had been 27 when she disappeared and, and no one had heard from her again in 1969. She had worked as a nanny and at Melrose Plastics in Manhattan. Whoa. Yeah. So later detective Fertner found, let's see, I'll read that to you in a minute. Okay. So Dr. Fertner also finds they're able to pick up a bunch of phone numbers from the book and they're like, these, it's been 30 years and these phones are all going to be

disconnected. They're all disconnected, all disconnected. And then they call one number, a woman named Kathy picks up, she's asked if she knew Reina and she starts fucking crying and she's like, my angel, I thought I'd never hear about her again. Oh no. I knew something had happened to her. Oh no.

Yeah. I met Reina in an English class and said that Reina had come to the US to study fashion. She was obsessed with fashion industry. She took citizenship classes. She loved New York and was full of life and eager to learn and make a life in, in the US. Over time, Kathy noticed a change in her friend. She asked Reina about it and her friend said that she was pregnant but refused to tell Kathy the father's identity but just said that he was married.

He had gotten her a private doctor, she said, and an apartment in New Jersey to be closer to him. She told Kathy that he said he was going to marry her and leave his wife and three children and once she had the baby, but she was, Reina was worried he would never keep his promise. And finally, when she's fucking nine months pregnant, he's like, I'm not going to marry you. He calls Kathy one day and is like, I'm freaking out, I panicked and I called his wife and told her.

Oh no. Yeah. And the next day, Reina calls Kathy in hysterics saying that this mysterious boyfriend had threatened to kill her, he called and said, he's coming over. She said, come over right away. When Kathy gets to Reina's apartment, no one answers the door. She goes in the door as a jar. There's like food left on the stove warming as if she had just been there.

And her winter coat and boots have been left behind. And Kathy waited for hours and hours and eventually just calls the police. But of course they just miss her story and like Reina's just run off with her boyfriend, get over it. And she doesn't know who the boyfriend is, so she doesn't know who to call. Right. Kathy never saw her friend again. Oh my God.

I know. That's so, I don't know. There's something very satisfying about the fact that Reina's story ends like that dramatically and then picks up that, that years and years later where there is, it's that thing. Like there are people sitting there waiting. Totally. To like hear something. Yeah.

To be like, oh, part of you probably is like, I don't want to know because I, you know, if they haven't called me in 30 years, it's not because they just moved on. Yes. It's because something bad happened. Right. Her friend would have contacted her. Right. She was like, that's so creepy and awful.

And it's like, you know, they were both, they were both El Salvadorians. So it's like, of course the police back then and maybe even now aren't going to take you seriously or care that much about your case. Right. It's really sad. Yes. So investigators believe that this dude Elkins went to Reina's, New Jersey, either went to her house and apartment and took her away or lured her to the factory and killed her

there. And then they think that he took her body to, that he, so he, they probably, he probably took her body to his house where the barrel had been found along with the barrel. His intention was to dump it in the ocean where he, from his boat. But when he filled the, the drum under the underneath and, and sealed it up and shit, it was too heavy for him to move to his boat, so we just fucking left it there. You know what's funny is that I was about to say, it's too heavy to put it. And then I'm like, because now it's coming, like the forensic files that I've seen on

this is coming back to me, right? As you say each thing and it was 375 pounds, right? But I want credit for knowing things even where it's like, you saw TV episode on this. It's not, you don't know any, no, no, no, no, you remember the TV episode. That's fucking, you should get props for that. Girl. Listen, our brains are deteriorating. It's for real.

It was like, it was too heavy, right? Yeah. Yes. Karen, cause you saw it on TV already. But it is like, like what a fucking, like it sounds like a Coen Brothers movie that he was like, I'm filling it up and I'm going to bring it to the boat. It's too fucking heavy. Yes.

What do I do? I live for the next, you know, fucking 15 years he lives with it under his fucking house where his children live and where his wife is sleeping. Yes. So it's like, clearly you just have no human emotion because you are able to do that. Not crack, not, no one catches on. But here's what I want to know is I want to hear from his children who were like, he changed after like, like we remember a change in dad or his wife being like, that's when

he started being weird. There was a change. We wanted to move out of that house and he wouldn't move and we didn't understand why he wanted to stay in the house so bad. It's been. Wait, are those all theories? Yes. You're saying that's real.

That's what I'm thinking. Oh yeah. Like they stayed in the house for longer than anyone else and maybe it's because he's like, I can't let anyone else move in here. Right. So he knows that people, the next people are going to find it. He's probably just waiting for someone to fucking find this barrel and move to Florida. Here's my, and not to give ideas, but you build this crawl space, right?

Basically to hide this, this unmovable, crazy heavy, badly planned barrel with a body in it. Why wouldn't you just throw up a fake wall? I mean, why? Fill it in with concrete. Yes. Do those things that like the mob does and stuff so it's just not overt. And it's something that gets discovered years and years later as opposed to like, oh I played

hide and seek near this barrel or it's like, could take the extra step, pay the extra $200 and have them throw up some paneling. I mean, it's either like a cockiness that he never thought he'd get caught or wanting to get caught. Maybe. Yes. Maybe. Or just being, just shutting down that part of his brain and being a blit like just,

you know, not, not dealing with it. I know. I'm not really even sure what I'm arguing. I get it. It's just don't be, be a better criminal. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.

If you're going to go all the way, then why not it go all the way leaving things behind like that is so insane. It's almost like he wanted to get caught. Yeah. But that's giving this fucking asshole too much credit. True. So, the department, et cetera. On the afternoon of September 9th, 1999, just a week after discovery of the body, detectives

knock on Howard Elkins home in an F scale retirement community in Boca Raton, Florida. And they're like, what's up, dude? Here's a photo of this. Here's a photo of that. This is who this is. What the fucking fuck? And he denied he'd ever seen the barrel when they asked him about his relationship with the victim.

He's like, yeah, I did have an affair back then, but I, when my wife and I were having issues, but I don't remember her name and I don't remember what she looks like, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, bullshit. Bullshit. I know. You remember people. Yeah.

Even if you hated the person, you remember. Yeah. If you had an affair with them. Totally. You remember what they look like. Yeah. They press him further and asking if he ever put her up somewhere or if he knew she was pregnant, but he claimed he hadn't.

So he was, but then they're like, can we get a fucking DNA swab of your cheek? We brought it all with us. And he's like, nope, I want a lawyer, get the fuck out of my house. Yeah. I'm getting this fucking badass, a hundred forever detective. The first hundred year detective in New York, in New York state, the Crip Keeper detective, Robert Edwards. He's like, I'm a fucking redwood tree, you can't escape my justice.

Count my rings, motherfucker. That's his, uh, he's like saying, he pulls the gun on someone, count my rings and they're like, sorry. What? It doesn't make any sense. And they're, he's like, no, I don't, you can't take a sample, but before leaving, he's like, he turns to him, looks him straight in the fucking face and goes, I'm going to come back here tomorrow with a warrant for your DNA.

We're going to check it against that, uh, dead baby. He says, yeah. And we're going to prove that you're the father of that baby and that you killed Reina. Yes. And he, he says that, uh, this guy, uh, he doesn't fucking, Howard Elkins doesn't react. Course not. At all. He's cold.

He's a cold hearted snake. He can do his eyes. That's right. He's been telling lies. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Okay. The next day, they're still in Florida, the detectives, they're processing their paperwork.

They get a call from the Nassau County back home, homicide squad, and they're like, what's going on with Elkins? We just got a call from the police department in Florida saying that his wife is filing a missing persons report on her husband. What? Howard Elkins. Uh-oh. She doesn't know where he is.

He ran. The time long Island cops arrive at the Palm Beach County Sheriff's office. Elkins had been found earlier in the day and this is so fucked up. Uh-oh. So he's 70 years old at this point. Okay. Uh, he said, he walked into a Walmart, purchased a 12 gauge shotgun and a box of shells. And cause there's no such thing as fucking background checks or fucking waiting period.

He walks the fuck out with both those things. He got in the back seat of a neighbor's SUV, which is such a dick, very rude. And fired one shot into his fucking skull. Whoa. Yeah. His son discovered his body with the gun between his legs. Awful. And the Florida neighbors are of course shocked that the big bearded Jovial man could have

been involved in this crime. Postmortem DNA testing confirms that he was the father of Reina's unborn child. Wow. And they're also, they also found with all this paperwork, another, like a little piece of paper tucked into the address book of, you know, her address book that they were able to like fucking, it's so crazy and creepy. They were able to spectrometer. They spectrometer that this thing, the UV situation.

So another thing they're able to find as a little post script in that piece of paper is a piece of paper that when they figure it out, when they post script it says, don't be mad, I told the truth. So she probably told, called the wife, told the wife what was going on. He found out she left him a note somewhere, maybe at work, maybe in his car, what, no, maybe, oh wait, she didn't leave it anywhere. She had it still. Yeah.

So she was going to leave it for him. She was going to leave it for him. Don't be mad. I told the truth. Ugh. That poor thing. Like she did. She told the truth.

That's right. So a month after the case is finally closed, they figure everything out. Writer and journalist Oscar Corral, he's determined to find the family that must be fucking looking for her or must have wondered what happened to their sister, their daughter, their cousin back in El Salvador over 30 fucking years before when they stopped hearing from her. So he goes to fucking El Salvador and has to like, it takes some days and days searching to finally find Reina's family. And after a couple of days, he locates Reina's 95 year old mother Celia.

Oh no. You ready to cry? Yep. Oscar goes and shows the woman a 30 year old photo of Reina and the mother Celia starts to weep and falls to the fucking ground. Her sister told him that Reina had left El Salvador in August 1966. She wanted a new start after a failed marriage quote. She'd tell my mom, I'm going to be somebody.

I'm going to be somebody someday. And for three years, Reina, Mary Quinn wrote her family regularly. She called and then with no explanation in 1969, the letters and calls suddenly stopped and they'd been heartbroken ever since. Her family had put up announcements in the paper in El Salvador trying to track her down. But over the over the years, the family had accepted that they might never ever know what happened to Reina. I know.

Her mother had been having reoccurring nightmares about her daughter being trapped inside a barrel. No. Oh. Her mother, Reina was flown back to her hometown of San Martin and her mother said, now I know she's with me. She came flying like a dove back to her home and Celia died a month later and was buried next to her daughter.

Oh God. You're trying to kill me. She was fucking held out until she found out what happened to her baby. She got her baby back. And that is the fucking murder of Reina, Mary Quinn. Wow. Amazing. How fucked up is that?

Also, what a beautiful thing for that. It was a reporter? Yeah. He's really incredible. He's in a lot of the videos that I think he's a writer and I'm pretty sure he wrote a book about the case. But he did. Yeah.

And he's in a lot of these, the videos that you see of like, you know, forensic files and shit, all the stories about him, and he just has this like empathy where you can tell, you know, he cared about, he was emotionally attached to this case. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think is what happens. I mean, how could you, especially that everything about the story is amazing. Yeah.

It's like, first you want to, you want to put a name to this poor girl who nobody had missed for 30 years, who was pregnant with a baby and then she found out she's pregnant and then, you know, it's so many fucking layers. I think there's something too about that, like, there's a weird, that apathy and that inhumanity of just like, this isn't convenient. This is a thing I chose to do. There's something that came of it that's not convenient for my real life. So I'm going to remove this and therefore everything's fine.

Because there's part when you were like, oh, I can't believe the jovial neighbor where I had a moment of, oh, that's so sad for him. And it's like, no, no, no, you don't get to go through life and just like, remove inconvenient mistakes that you made. Choices that you made. That led to obvious fucking places. Yes. And you, and basically that you, you did something inconsiderate, you did something selfish.

And then that thing kicked back on you, which they always do. Well, that's the thing about why the note is so tragic of don't, she didn't do it like, you know, I don't be mad. But I told the truth. Yes. And then he, you know, in a lot of ways lied and one of those lies is murdering the problem. Yes. And also he told her, he basically made a promise to her of like, okay, like, I love you.

I love you. I want to have this baby with you. I'm going to leave my wife. I'm going to leave my wife. So he's fucking everybody over. Yeah. Everybody. His children, everything.

And then this assumption you make is like, oh, there's a body, there's a body in a barrel. And therefore that in and of itself means that that person doesn't matter because they've just been sitting there where it's like, no, unpack it all, investigate it all and find out how much this person actually means. Yeah. I mean, that's, there's, it's so good in that way. Because like, it's, it was so sad too that, you know, this fucking, he killed himself. So there was no bringing him to justice.

Right. And so at least, you know, this journalist, probably part of it was that he wanted to go find her family. There has to be someone who's missing her or who's missed her and he does it and it's like incredible. He does it. It's like, yeah, that's such an amazing story. Great job.

Thank you. So good. Wow. Fucked up. So fucked up. I mean, they all are. It's like, I think that's, that's what's so much of this. People who like true crime just like justice and they like to hear these stories of like,

it's basically the stories of everybody matters. Yeah. Everybody matters no matter what the actual official quote unquote story is. Exactly. And they matter to cops. They matter to these detectives that dedicate their lives, these reporters that dedicate their lives. Right.

There's all these scientists. The community, you know. The woman with her beautiful radial spectrometer who's just like piecing together. This is important. Yes. Yes. This matters so much. Yeah.

It's really lovely actually. It is. It is. And it's horror. It is. That's part of like, I think being into true crime is like when things get solved, you're, you know, you're there for it. You want to like, you don't just want to know about these horrible things that happen.

You want to know how there are good people out there, you know, trying their best to at least put a period on a horrible sentence that's somehow positive or, you know, human. Yes. Humane. Yes. And I think that's what's being like, everyone thinks we're just like into serial killers or like into murder. But it's like, no, we're into these insane human fucking stories of crazy adversity that

happens all the fucking time to people all around us. It's, it's an incredible story. I want to know the story, not just, you know, the bad parts. Not just yet. Not just the gruesome details, but like the, the human stories and who gets pulled into those stories. And you know, there's people whose jobs it are, what? There's people whose jobs it is to just, you catch the case.

And so then that's your, this is your case, this is your thing. Like the idea that, you know, the redwood tree detective goes down and is just like, guess what friend? It's over. Yeah. And I don't care that it's 30, 70, whatever years, I don't care that you're old. You, the buck stops here with you. Time to fucking, time to face your fucking lies.

Yep. And you don't get to just lie your way through life. You don't get to be the jovial fucking neighbor because, you know, Raina never had a chance to be a mother to her unborn child. No. No. It's not how that fucking works. It's not how it works.

There is justice. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes. Hopefully. Wow.

Fucking hooray. Fucking hooray. I mean, I could do mine easily because I will say this, I complain and you know, whatever, use it as an excuse. So I have this job and so it makes this job harder or whatever, but this, this season writing on this season of best is going to end, I think it's this week or next week, I'm so not sure. Just going on forever.

Pretty soon. It's never going to end. It's, but it's such an amazing, the group of people that work on the show are so amazing. It's been such a fun year. It's been such a joy. Everything about it has been the best, the best experience. So there, you know, it really has been worth it in so many ways. And then, and also it's been killing me slowly and, and just basically kind of peeling away

my mental stability, but I do adore it so much. And it's, I mean, it's so great. It's worth it. Yeah. That to be even involved in it is such an honor. So I will say this week's fucking hooray is the fact that I get to be a writer on baskets. It's very cool to me. Amazing.

Yeah. I'm so happy for you. Thank you. Mine is okay. My fucking hooray. Okay, so there's this gal I follow on Instagram called, uh, named Jen Gotch, G-O-T-C-H. She has a podcast called Jen is okay. Jen Gotch is okay sometimes.

Um, and she talks a lot about her own mental health struggles as well. She put out those really cute script necklaces that say anxiety and depression that sold out immediately so I can get one, but, uh, she posted a photo like this week of her hand with, you know, her, uh, her new, uh, med, her new, like, uh, what's it called? Pill. Her new pill for her anxiety. Right. And talked about it.

And I was like, that's really cool. So I posted, you know, gave her credit and posted one, two of my, the pills I take to make me not fucking stay in bed all day depressed and anxious. And then a bunch of fucking people have started doing it with the hashtag, uh, that was created. Someone made it up called my favorite meds. And so now there's like 200 plus photos and posts that people are putting up on their Instagram of what pharmaceutical they fucking take so that they can function in life, which I know is a really weird topic for a lot of people to talk about.

So the fact that there's all these people doing it is really incredible. So I go to my favorite meds hashtag. And if you feel so inclined post what, what you're taking, and I know it's like a secret for a lot of people that they're on fucking Prozac or they're, they need a Xanax every now and then, but I feel like people posting it and making it public says to everyone else on their feed that they know in real life or on the internet or whatever, or it went to high school with like, this isn't, this shouldn't, there doesn't need to be a stigma behind this.

Right. And it's okay. It's very normal. Yeah. And we all, we all need help sometimes. Yes. So I think it's helping in a little way to end the stigma of taking, taking fucking pharmaceuticals for everyone's depression and everyone's shit.

And Jen gotch did it first. Yeah. She's like, she's groundbreaking. That's right. I definitely gave her credit. Yeah. She's really cool. I'm a big fan of hers.

That's great. Yeah. That's really awesome. Yeah. That's that. You know what that makes me think of is Chrissy Teigen did the same thing as her new baby needs to wear a helmet to shape his skull. I saw that.

I fucking love her. What did she say? It was so cute. Don't worry. He's fine. Yes. Exactly. Just like, it's just to shape his skull.

It's going to make him even cuter. It's just like, and then it's all these people being like, yep, Maluk, how cute my baby looks with this on where it's, there's something very cool happening with it. There's obviously social media brings a lot of horror. It can harm. It can influence us in ways and make us think very strange things about ourselves. It also has that power, a very healing power and a unifying power. That's right.

And I think there's a big move of like anti, an anti-shaming thing going on right now where it's like body positivity and like, you know, I see these incredible, these incredible gals who don't have the fucking typical bodies posting these incredible bikini photos of themselves that you're like, this needs to be normal. And the more, the more you post them, the more you feel normal about yourself, whether it's because you need meds or because you don't have a fucking, you don't weigh 105 pounds because- Which is not normal at all.

Right. It's not normal because your kid needs a helmet. And those people, like the people that look like that in the presentation of it is like, it's because I eat, I'm vegan and I'm this and I'm that. It's like, if those people are actually honest about how they stay that skinny, it would be a very different story. And that happens sometimes when people like all those women who were so emaciated in the 90s, Courtney Thornton Smith came out with like that whole story of she was like, we

on Allie McBeal, we all worked out four hours a day. They were never not working out. They were never not starving themselves. It's like, that's the story you never hear on that side of like just to really, I'm just this really healthy actors that love spinning. I love a burger. Definitely have all the time. There's people who are like blessed with that, but it's not that common.

As an ex-anterexic, I can say that it's not, you make, you say this and you say that, but it's not fucking true. You just are not eating and you're not enjoying life and- You're hurting yourself. Yeah. I know. It's, you know what, the whole movement is very cool thing of just like being yourself is good right now, like right now and just give yourself a break, whatever direction

you are and however, whatever area you're in, give yourself a break. Yeah. That's a good message. Yeah. And you're not alone. There's other people either going through it that have gone through it. It's not- Reach out and be vulnerable and you might get that back from someone else.

You will get that back from someone else out there. It might not be everyone. Some people might reject it. But the people you- Don't look for it from everyone. Right, but the people you do find that from, you're going to make connections with them that are lifelong, life-changing, life-affirming, like for example, you and I. Yeah.

It's perfect. We did it. We did it. We're working on it. Yeah. Life's a struggle, but it's real fun. You know what it is? It's just like the goal should be that you are comfortable and happy instead of perfect

because perfect doesn't exist. It's just- And perfect is boring. It's just- It's not real though. It's not real because the people we think are perfect are suffering in some way or something else is happening. Well, you wouldn't want- You really wouldn't want their lie.

Right. It's just that's a weird oasis lie that keeps you on that hook where it's like, no, no, no, no. No. Come on, everybody. Yeah. I'm saying this absolutely to myself. Come on.

What about right now is fine. Thanks for listening, you guys. We, as always, appreciate you and are so happy to be part of this community. We're so happy to be allowed to barf all this dumb shit at you. Truly. It's really nice. Thank you for holding our hair back. Yeah.

While we barf all this. That's what you guys are doing. You really do hold our hair every week and we really appreciate that. Just listening to us retch. So guess what? Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Good bye.

Hey, Elvis, you want cookie?