My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 152 - Live at the O2 Academy in Glasgow

Episode Date: December 20, 2018

Karen and Georgia cover the Burke & Hare murders and the Bible John murders. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. What's up, let's go. Holy shit. Hell yes. You guys been waiting long? Sorry.

This is bananas. This is the last show of our European tour and we're really happy it's here. Exact for that reason exactly. Yeah, we left Los Angeles 17 years ago. We were very young and naive. We smelled good. These dresses. We figured out what this dress smells like now because I tried to wash it halfway through and it

actually brought up more smells that I didn't smell before. Panicked raccoon is actually what I think if I came out with my own line of fragrance. Panicked raccoon is what I would sell to all of you. If you wanted to say thank you to keep others away, it's like a reverse perfume. Let them know that what's going on on the outside is not what's going on in your nose. I don't know. No, that was a good one. No, that was.

Don't stout yourself. Terrible. We are going to have a bonfire after this and burn these fucking dresses. A weekend ceremony if anyone wants to join us. That's right. A dress burning, tights burning ceremony. Really nice sound system in here though. We just did a show in Manchester.

I just realized it was still light outside which is terrifying. There were windows all around so you could see it was like fucking daytime. It's like when people who are sober go to daytime raves and you're like that's not fun. Sorry, one second. I need to have a private conversation with Georgia. A daytime? Yeah, totally. What are you fucking talking about?

They're called day breakers and they're like fucking people who I mean they must be insane because they're like before work I just want to go dance it out at a rave. I swear. I know. Not for me. That's unsafe. That's a lot of energy. Yeah, yeah.

A rave before work. During the day. But it turns out it's only for people whose job is being a drug dealer so it's actually perfect. Oh, we were going to write out our top memories, our top beautiful memories from this tour. Yeah, I kept mine in my head. Oh, you did? Where memories belong. Mine doesn't work that way.

Did you want it listed? Listed out? No, but I just can't imagine remembering anything at this point in my life. It has been a bit of a blur. Backstage VIN said something about like, you remember that first dressing room we were in? I was like, are you fucking kidding me? I can't remember the room I'm in right now. That's true.

And my family keeps texting me and they're just like, oh my God, did you go to the Hague? Where I'm like, what are you talking about? We see hotel rooms. We fucking see this rug in all different kinds of cities. That's pretty much it. Rough on the road, you guys. Oh my God, it's so hard. Okay, what's your first beautiful memory you've written down?

Let's see. It just says Elvis barfed. What a gorgeous time that was. Here's what I think yesterday. Our fucking pets started revolting against us being away, which is really sweet. Or they're just assholes because Elvis, I got a text from Steven like before we went on a show. That's right. But she didn't cheer for Elvis, so...

It's too late. That was basically a cheer that was also saying no at the same time. Well, good, because Elvis barfed on Steven's laptop. And it's not fucking working anymore. And guess who has to buy Steven a new fucking laptop? Beautiful memories from the tour. What's yours? That's literally your first beautiful memory from the tour.

You said what you write down first. And that's what I wrote down first. Maybe I should have committed this to memory. My first beautiful memory from the tour was Dublin was the first city we were in. And yeah, it's pretty good. And of course, I think we both had jet lag really bad. I was like wide awake at four in the morning. And then I looked in the room service menu, said it was 24 hours.

So I was like, well, let's fucking see if you mean it. And I think I got some weird like cobbler. I don't know what it was, blood sausage, something weird. But the guy brings it in and he kind of looks like Simon Pegg a little bit. It was fun to experience to have someone in your room late at night. And he puts the thing down. He puts the like tray down and then I'm standing there ready to sign a thing. And he just goes to walk away.

And I was like, oh, don't I have to sign something and he goes, that's okay. And walks out. And I was just like, I actually kind of feel famous right now because when at a fucking hotel, do they ever let you have one thing for like even a normal price, much less for free? Oh, the generosity of strangers. Of Simon Pegg. Of fake Simon Pegg. Okay, well for real though, I met so many fucking incredible cats in Amsterdam.

Sorry, are we only doing cat based memories? Oh, I thought that you knew that that's all. Oh, that's implied. I see. That's all I remember. Got it. Shit that is involved with cats. Right.

We, yeah, we, they just kept coming to me. Like we rock the streets and they'd be like, let's go in this pot shop and it'd be like, there's a kitten here. It was the best. That's it. You can't judge mine. I thought there'd be crying during this segment, but apparently. Don't judge my, my memories.

No, no, I'm not. I'm trying to access the files. Well, we did have, it's, I just realized as we started talking about this, it's super rude where we just got to Glasgow and we're like, guess what about all the other cities we've been in? No, listen, listen. I had a hotel where we both did. I never saw yours, but I'm sure they were matchy matchy.

Our hotel rooms, my hotel room in Stockholm was something, it was like, I was a Disney princess. It was fucking nuts. And it like, the windows opened out onto the water where like boats, like fairies were coming in and people were like under umbrellas having cobbler, whatever. I don't know. Cobbler features heavily in your stories, I think. It's just, that's the one food I can now think of.

I'm sobered. I'm sure I should have said lingonberries. That would have been way better. Everything in Stockholm was lingonberries and fish, which was a living nightmare for me. I was just like, could I get no herring in that, please, and hold those lingonberries for the rest of your life? So hotel memories and cat memories is what we're theme here. And we got Swedish massages in Sweden, which was pretty cool.

Yeah. I mean, this isn't... No, this is bad. I've never... Let's start over. We meant to do a slideshow to bore the fuck out of you, but we just thought we'd do it verbally instead. Well, there is one really exciting memory that just happened this morning.

Oh, you guys, you tell it. Well, international incident is what almost happened this morning. We... I never want to say it out loud because we're always pretty LUCKY when it comes to traveling. But this morning, when we went through security in Amsterdam, Vince turned to both of us and... Right? Vince? That's Vince's one fan.

He's been following us all around Europe. Should maybe we get Vince in to tell the story? Yes. Okay. I just remembered, he might just be hanging out in the dressing room right now. Oh, yeah, come here. He's just laying on the floor. There he is.

Our tour manager and George's has been Vince Averill, everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Could you just recount for the good people what happened to us at the airport this morning? I'm happy to do that. But I can't always come out and save you guys from tanking when the front of the show is...

It can't always be me that has to... I was mulling the drugs for the crew that we had smoked very efficiently in Amsterdam. And I had said to my wife, I had fought to myself many times, get this shit out of your pocket before you get to customs. There I was loading the tray, I go into my pocket and I was like, fuck. So I'm looking around, I'm going, the only trash can is like four feet behind me on the other side of the entry. And I go to the guy behind it, is there a trash can?

He's like, yeah, just give it to me, whatever. And at that point it was either, I didn't know what to do. So I just handed it to him. And it was... I thought interest a full disclosure, right? It can't be, you know, it's Amsterdam. This has to happen every ten minutes. People forget that they smoked weed in Amsterdam, probably.

Occasionally. It was a pipe. A pipe lighter and about that much weed. An eight ball of coke. Okay. That was in my ass. They'll never find it. He opened his hand and they dropped a net over the top of me.

Everybody, a siren went off. They fucking... No. No. I almost had a fucking panic attack. It got serious. And then I just, essentially what you had to do was sweat for about 20 minutes while they acted like you had done something that might land you in a prison colony.

And instead, after the very military looking guy came down and took out his scale and looked at me and did some paperwork, just turned and goes, be more careful next time. Then they chased me because they wanted to give me back the fucking pipe in the goddamn... They gave him the pipe and... Just the pipe or the pipe in the pipe? The pipe in the lighter. Sir. Sir.

Don't forget your paraphernalia. That's very polite of them. That's how it went down. It's April. Did you see how he subtly blamed me just a little bit? Yeah, I heard that loud and clear. Oh, that's Doug. Our therapist is going to fucking hear about that next week.

Couldn't get home. You know what? Put it on the list. I'm going to put it on the list. A beautiful memory. I knew it was bad because Georgia's just purse got randomly pulled also. So Vince was standing over here and he did the thing where he was talking to me without looking at me or moving his mouth.

And he goes, I'll meet you guys at the gate. It'll be fine. And immediately I was just like, this is not fine at all. And then you and I were not looking at each other because I think we were afraid. We were like, we're going to... If we need to pretend we're not with him, we need to be able to break free. I went over to like, to talk to him and put my arm around him. He goes, pretend you're not with me.

I was like, oh my God, you're right. So then we just, when Georgia gets her stuff from the security guy, we just like kind of walk like, this is how people walk at the airport. And it's the thing too where it's like, I don't want to ask Karen about it because I need Karen to be strong for me right now. So if I turn to her and go, is it going to be okay? And she goes, I don't know. I'll fucking lose my shit.

So just don't say anything at all. So what she said was we got like, I'd say 80 steps away from that area. And then this is when I got really scared because Georgia, who is fully free and welcome, but also doesn't really give a shit and will tell me anytime she's any kind of nervousness or anxiety or passing thought at all, she goes, you are not in a bad way. She just goes like this, I'm kind of nervous. And I was like, oh my God, like literally I was like, I'm going to shit. It was so, it was so clear how much you were trying to like keep the lid on where I was

like, oh, we're in a place where we're trying to keep the lid on. That's the worst place. And then like five minutes later, get a text from Vince being like, I'll be, I'll meet you at the gate. Oh my God, we made it. So that was amazing. Guys, that goes to the top of the memory list for sure. But now that you know that you guys know that we smoke drugs in Amsterdam, I can tell

you the best memory I have from that thing. Don't do drugs, et cetera. Stay in school. Yep. So we just had just smoked this pot that we got at the store and it's, you know, we don't know what's going on and it's scary. And I think we're both get like a little panicky when we smoke pot sometimes for like waiting for it to kick in.

And then we're walking down the street and then this guy on a bike is like fucking this totally Dutch dude who's like this Nordic looking guy with his shirt off and tiny shorts rides his bike by and he just as he's riding by, he's listening to his headphones and he starts to sing along to what he's listening to. And so he rides by and he, and you hear this poke, poke, poke, poke her face. Poke her face. Poke, poke, poke her face. And in his like accent and I just fucking was like, this is going to be a good day.

That's my shit. Poke, poke, poke, poke. Now I don't know if I was like downwind of you or like I was in a different like the sound wave hit me different, but it just to me it sounded like a guy rode by on his bike going fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. It was like, I don't know if this is going to be a very good day. I might have some weird chicken attack where I fucking freak the fuck out and everyone turns into a chicken.

Everyone knows I'm high and they're fucking with me. Yeah, I get that. But then George, I go, that guy's making a noise. George goes, it was poke her face. And I was like, all right, it's on. We're doing this. It's all good. We're singing Lady Gaga.

That's amazing. That's got to be a good song. It's so funny too because it's like we all know that especially in California the pot is so fucking strong because everything's hyperponically grown. So it's like, I mean, you cheer. Yeah, but. But dude. Sometimes you just want to get a little high.

You don't want to be out of your fucking mind like yelling at the TV like I do. Yeah. I think we were all smoking or sitting at these little tables at the like cafes or whatever and we would just take a hit and kind of be like making small talk. But you could tell that we were all just waiting to like step off the ledge and be like, now I'm crying in public. Now I'm clawing at my own face. What's happening?

It didn't happen. Never happened. No. We had a great day. It was super fun and it was our first day off in like eight days or ten days or something. We just lived it up. We had meatball sandwiches. No Lincoln berries.

No Lincoln berries. We, yeah. You start reading off the page and then. What did I buy? I bought a vase. You know why I bought a fucking vase? Here's why I bought a fucking vase. So I text my mom because it was Mother's Day and I was like, what do you, what can I get

from here thinking like a, like a thing, a perfume or an oil? And she said, just a little vase, a fucking vase that I'm going to have to pack in my suitcase. It's going to smash the fucking bits and I have to be careful with. Of course my high maintenance mom wants me to bring her a fucking vase. It's almost like that thing we used to have in high school where when you're a senior in one of those like classes, they make you carry a bag of beans around for a week and pretend it's your baby. And this is what it's going to be like if you have a baby, so you better carry this bag

of beans around. It's like that's what she made you do around. Just give me a little highly delicate, incredibly expensive vase to carry around by hand. This was what it was like to fucking raise you. Now you know. But you were louder than a vase and you did more drugs than vases too. You took a Tylenol with Cody and every night when you were pregnant with me, no she didn't. But I did buy one at the Manchester train station.

Here's a vase. And I'm going to tell her I bought it at a flea market in Amsterdam. You should tell her the best vases in Europe are actually at this Manchester train station. Everyone knows it's the best. Everyone knows over there. Good. Great. I had an experience today.

We went and got some lunch when we got to the hotel. So you know yesterday you were talking about how in Amsterdam you had to use the McDonald's order screen and you used it in Dutch so you didn't understand any of it. I had the same exchange today in a pub, but it was with the waiter. Because, oh my God, I just was nodding. I think we were talking about beer and he was lovely and wonderful, but I could not understand a fucking word he was saying. And I loved it.

I was like, keep talking to me, but I don't know what you're saying. It's fun. It's like you understand every ninth word and it's like they're singing you a little song. Yes. It's the best accent. Every time we'd meet someone and I would love their accent, you'd be like, that's the accent that we're going to be here for. So we just want you guys to talk to us tonight.

Not really. Not really. Not really. No. Don't do it. Goodbye. Oh, this is my favorite murder, by the way. Thank you.

This is Karen Pilgeras. This is Georgia Heart Start. Thanks. Couldn't be happier to be here. No, seriously. Damn it. It's very exciting. Yeah.

Steven's not here. We apologize. But listen, my cats aren't going to barf on their own laptops. Little cat laptops. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You have to invent that. They can still cost like $1,500.

Sure. They work. They're for cats. There's just like four keys. Just a fish, a string, a fucking laser light. And then you pick the fourth one. I won't do every single key. You can have your say in the cat laptop if you want.

Thank you. Finally, it's up to me what cats say. Oh, I just want to say, for those of you who thought you knew me until I walked out on the stage and saw so much cleavage coming from me, and you're like, that's not Karen's style at all. Thank you so much. Thank you for supporting us. And you're bra.

This is the dress I wore at our LA show, but at the LA show I wore a slip. I got here and then realized I didn't bring my slip, and then on that first night I was just like, eh, fuck it. I mean, like, who gives a shit? That's right. Who gives a shit anymore? That was your birthday. That was your birthday?

That feels like a year ago. I know. It really does. And like traveling, I could just, every picture, God bless everyone who comes and sees us afterwards, pays for a meet and greet, and then they post those fucking pictures like, I want to see that shit. I know. Wow.

It was so great to meet you. It was great to meet you until you posted that fucking picture of me looking like a carved potato. Let me just say it. Let me get it off my chest. This chest. Let me get it off so the girls can be free to breathe. Well, my dress, I'm pretty excited.

I'm pretty sure that it's going to be real easy to rip. Do it. Put the microphone back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hate this dress so much. I'm going to burn it when the minute we walk off stage. It's one of those things where I've been wearing it and being like, then I see a photo and I'm like, what?

That's not what it looked like in the mirror. And it smells, and it was cheap. Let us hold our space in our outfits because it started strong. When I washed this dress halfway through, I was like, yeah, that's getting a little, I think I forgot to wear deodorant last night. When I washed it, not only did other smells come out, but then there was like a kind of a ring. Like I was turning into a fucking tree.

I was just like, I don't, I don't need any of this. Hey, should we sit down? Yeah. Look at this is all matchy, matchy. It's very mid-century modern. Thank you. You know that's what we're all about. This is our square table tour.

That's what we're calling it. It's our sticky table tour. Great. Do you go first or? Tonight's show sponsored by Life Water Life. It's no Evion. Drink it up. Drink it the fuck up life.

Drink it up. Time for a better cooking routine. Hello Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. Hello Fresh meals are convenient, seasonal and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly. Why stop with just dinner? Now you can enjoy Hello Fresh's expanded menu of quick lunch solutions, weekend brunch,

simple side dishes, and amazing desserts. The current January is going to be my month for Hello Fresh. I am so sick of takeout. I miss cooking so much I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and Hello Fresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca

slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong and on my new podcast Killer Psyche Daily I share a quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths,

and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton serial killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia, and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast Killer Psyche Daily in the

Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Do you go first or do I go first? Me? Okay, let's do it. Don't you remember last night? Last night I do. It was only last night.

Oy vey. All right. Friends in Scotland, I'm going to do Birkin Hair. That's right. What a couple assholes. Listen. Look. Look and listen.

Do you know this one? Of course you know this one. I have heard of it, yes. Okay. Well, I'm going to tell you. I think there's a movie that I tried to watch and I fell asleep, but that's not a judgment. I always fall asleep within 20 minutes of any movie. All right.

Let's go to 1823. Great. The Judgment of Death Act. It's an act of parliament of the United Kingdom. This isn't going to be like last night where my story was two pages long, so I filled it in with a bunch of fucking history of Amsterdam, and I told it to a bunch of fucking people from Amsterdam. They were like, we know.

So she'd start to tell me something, and then she'd be like, eh, you know, it doesn't matter. And I'd be like, wait, what? She'd be like, you know, there's shipping, there's canals, anyway, let's just move on. The word like, the flourishing of science and art, it was not me. Okay. So there's an act in parliament, so it says that the number of crimes punishable by death in Britain drops dramatically. So there's less dead bodies, and that the medical and anatomical schools were only legally

allowed to dissect the cadavers of those who had been condemned to death. So there was a, became a shortage of dead bodies to fucking take apart, you know, for science and shit. But because of the advancements in modern medicine in the 19th century, fresh corpses, I already told you that, okay, we're off to a good start. So they could only use corpses of executed criminals and abandoned dead children and orphans. Super fucking chill. Because, because they wanted those young doctors and training to cry as much as possible.

It was essentially if you didn't have a family to claim you that the doctors and people could take you. So that went away, so this led to the resurrectionist movement where resurrection men or fucking body snatchers would go and dig up freshly buried cadavers or unburied corpses from cemeteries and sell them on the black market. Like there would be cemeteries who had just gotten behind in their work, and they're like, just pile them up over there, we'll get to those tomorrow. And of course, grave robbing is a crime, so doctors wouldn't ask questions and shit because

they just really wanted those corpses. Grave robbing became so commonplace that relatives would just fucking chill at the grave until the bodies were like unusable. Oh, I'm thinking like picnic and shit. How long? Weeks? I don't know, yeah. I think they would like take shifts and just hang out there, serious.

And then they'd build like crazy walls and watch showers and what a time to be alive. And dead. Okay, so enter Burke and Hare, they're both named William, so this is easy. Great. Burke and Hare, what's weird about them is before this whole fucking thing started, they had neither of them had a criminal record or a history of criminal behavior, and I think they were in their 30s when this started happening, so they were both born in 1792 from the province of Ulster and then north of Ireland, fuck, did I say it?

We need to pick someone to tell us. Don't worry about them, they're way back there. They moved to Scotland to work in the Union Canal and Burke moved around 1817. He abandoned his wife and two children, came over here and was like, I'm going to move in with this chick. Her name was Helen McDougall, but that, yeah. And then in 1828, they had lived together about 10 years, they were married, basically, and Burke was a shoemaker, he could read and write and he was charming and kind of hot.

I think he was like, you know, Ted Bundy-ish. You know what I mean? Charming. Just the shoemaker type, I know. I've been there. Okay, so the pair met because they both lived in the Westport District of the Old Town, they became close friends, and so Burke and his wife Helen, they move into lodgings in Tanners Close in the Westport area at Edinburgh.

That's right. Thank you. So Hare lived the same street and Hare and his wife Margaret are running a boarding house and that's just when fucking people need cheap lodgings, they go there for super cheap. And so the first occurrence of selling a body is kind of innocent. In December 1827, as it always is, it's always the first one. It was more happenstance, really, than anything else. In December of 1827, one of the boarding house tenants is an old man, he's an Army pensioner,

his name is Old Donald. That's right. He dies of natural causes, but he still owes four pounds in rent. So they're like, oh shit, we need this money still. What we should try to do is sell this body for fucking... He's about a four-pounder, that guy. So Burke and Hare devises a thing where they do the old switcheroo with the morgue and they put like, you know, I don't know, newspaper in the casket.

Sure. They put stuff, a bunch of haggis into a bag and stick it on now, pandering. So then they take the body to the medical school at Edinburgh University to try to sell it, but a student there is like, no, no, no, no, the guy you got to go to, you need to go to Surgeon Square, which sounds like it's like the red light district for fucking doctors and anatomy. It's like where everyone's... You're like, stethoscopes?

Stethoscopes. Yeah. And speak to Dr. Robert Knox. He's a popular anatomy lecturer and he fucking, he's stoked because bodies are so hard to come by, he happily pays them seven to ten pounds for Old Donald's body, no questions asked. Shit. No question, dude.

Ask one question. Now, how old is Old Donald? And then they'd be like, you should be able to find that out yourself if you're such a good doctor. Said to your doctor. So they're like, oh shit, this is easy and cool, quote. It's not just easy. It's cool.

And then they like gun it on their motorcycle and get the fuck out of there. Yes. Yes. And really, this is more money than they would have made in months of just regular old work. So they're like, fuck. Gotta love that. Yeah. So in early 1828, an elderly man named Joseph, who's staying at the boarding house, gets

super sick. He's older, Joseph? Sorry. Sorry. It wasn't worth it. He becomes sick and he's probably gonna die from his illness and they're like, let's not wait around though. Yeah.

They're like, let's help this along. So this becomes their signature move. They get him fucking shit-faced on whiskey and then they wait and then I don't think you're gonna like this. Although they may be into it. You don't know. They get them shit-faced so they're like passed out and then they do, but comes to be known as Birking because of Birk.

Because of the Birk part. Let me explain this to you. So they basically compress the chest and cover the nose and the mouth at the same time so the person suffocates, but because they're drunk, they're not fighting. There's no bruising. There's no ligature marks. It's fucking sinister. And so he dies and he dies of Birking.

So they again easily sell, no questions asked, this body to Dr. Knox. And then again, now they're like, well, we're in it. You know what I mean? But then if somebody comes along and they're like, hey, I need to rent a room. My name is incredibly healthy, Joe. They're like, no, sorry. No room's available. Can't do it.

Well, no, at this point they're like, how about let's just kill people? Like there's no pretense. Oh, the renting part is out. The what? Renting a room? Renting the room? No, the like sick and dying part is out. Right.

And eventually the renting the room part is out. Got it. So then another dude comes along, an old man from Cheshire, Cheshire, I'm from Southern California. Sorry, but you should have seen us in fucking Oslo. You should have seen Sweden, holy shit, poor, poor, poor Sweden. Oh, angels. We were just destroying their language in a way that like, at the meet and greet, people

would come up and we'd be like, I hide what your name. And they'd be like, and I'd be like, and so I just try to mimic them. Just like, oh, is it and they'd be like, it's Kristen. Just immediately. They all have American names because they're like, just shut up. Yeah. You know, you can't extend yourself to any other part of the world here. Here's my American name.

I feel like this was our apologies for being American tour over so sorry. We know and we're sorry we didn't vote for him. There's just not that much. I mean, we're, we're not all like that. Most of us. Them. My mom. Okay.

I mean, the shit that's been going on in news these days, I'm like, we don't have to get a plane back immediately, right? That's right. Okay. So this dude comes in, he's ill with jaundice and in the lodging house, they smother him again, they get another 10 pounds, no more, not another question is thought about. So then there's no more ill tenants. And so they're like, they killed every sick person in town.

And then I don't know, maybe they were like, they'll be ill someday. We're basically just helping them along. So they, they decided to start enticing people to Margaret's lodging house and like making them come there. So Bergen here go out into the streets for search, to search for more bodies and they prey on the poorest communities and let people who are not likely to be missed or recognized. So on the morning of April 9th, 1828, two local sex workers, Janet Brown and Mary Patterson, they run into charming Ted Bundy Burke and he invites them over to drink during the day.

A nice morning drink. Sure. Been there, been there. Right. And they're like, absolutely will be there. So they eat and drink and party and Mary eventually passes out and Janet takes off for a hot second and then when she comes back, her friend's gone and she's like, what the fuck's going on?

She's suspicious of it. And MacDougall claims that she and Burke had left without them. They didn't say where they were going. She's like, they totally left. And so she, she leaves and but she had no idea that Mary Patterson was lying dead in the next room waiting to be taken to Knox, Dr. Knox. And some of the students that are work under Dr. Knox are like, we know her, like she's this beautiful young woman that everyone kind of knows in town.

One of them said they had just seen her that morning and they, they start to get a little suspicious first. That's kind of uncomfortable when you have to do, you know, like an autopsy on someone you know. Yeah. Like your friend. Oh, the girl from town. Yeah.

She's shut her eyes, but they were also super suspicious because the body was so fresh that they were like, this doesn't seem like you went and snatched this. Should she be twitching? I don't like this at all. One of them said that he thought that if he had bloodlet her, which was like the thing they did back then, great. She would have like felt like she would have woken up. Like she wasn't warm, but she also hadn't gotten rigor mortis yet.

So that was like creepy and weird. I mean, listen, her name was actually very alive Janet. In late spring, they killed her next victim. He's an acquaintance of Burke. She's a beggar called named Effie. They were paid 10 pounds for her body. Then they start to get reckless in the summer of 1828. This is all within one year, by the way.

Whoa. Yeah. They spot a drunk woman being dragged by the Westport policemen and they, and Burke's like, Hey, you should just let her go back to her house and the police are like, we don't know where her house is. And Burke's like, you know what? I'll take care of this and I won't kill her. I swear.

Yeah. I am in no way going to hold her nose closed and sit on her chest. So they hand her over to him and they murdered her as well. And hours later, I took her to the school to fucking get dissected. Okay. Yes. That's appropriate. In June that year, there's two more victims, an old woman and her grandson who are lodgers

there. I know it's really awful. Burke said that this was the murder of the grandson is the murder that disturbed him the most, which is like great. Well, that's good. Yeah. That's a good sign. And the bodies are again taking Dr. Knox, they each get eight pounds.

Let's see. The next two victims are Burke's acquaintance, Mrs. Osler, a washerwoman who came to do laundry, which is like, fucking let her do the laundry and leave. You know what I mean? I hate him. They got her drunk and killed her. And then a week or two later, one of McDougal's relatives and Dougal visited and they killed her.

And they're just like the laziest serial killers of all time. It's like, at least leave your home and try to find people, just whoever buzzes by. That's right. It's not smart. No. So, let's see, two more people, Elizabeth Holden and her daughter Peggy. And then, so this is where it all goes to shit for them. In October, they brought in a well-known children's entertainer.

His name is James Wilson, but he's known around the city as Daft Jamie. She's like, oh, my God. Is he, is he, he entertains children or he's a child that's like, hello, my baby. Both. He's only 18 years old. He has a limp because his feet, he has feet abnormalities. But it seems like he's, he's like known around town and everyone seems to like him. He supported himself by begging.

He resists, they don't get him drunk enough because he doesn't like whiskey. And so he resists them and he was strong and so they had to kill him together and like actually struggled against his, his mother is what starts looking for him. And the next morning when Dr. Knox uncovers the body of James Wilson, several students are like, dude, we know him. And they're like, you know what? I don't want to be a doctor anymore. Just fuck this shit.

And see at the end of the story, Dr. Knox is never, you're never really sure if he knows or not, but this little piece of evidence that he's like, no, it's not. And he dissects the feet and gets rid of them and dissects the head and gets rid of it first. So he like is covering, not covering shit up. He's in. Yeah. And then on Halloween, 1828, okay, their last victim. Her name is Marjorie Campbell Dority.

She's lured to stay with Berke McDougal on the pretense that she's a distant relative. They're like, come stay with us. Never stay with your fucking second cousin or whatever. It's like weird. And then so there's this other couple there, Mr. and Mrs. Gray, and they are the heroes of this story. They got suspicious about this old lady that was staying in the lodging place with them as well.

And they picked out that night because they were like, we need some alone time with this old lady. Not a good sign. And when they get back in the morning, they're like, where did she go? And they're like, nowhere. And you can't go into that room. And Mrs. Gray is like, my shit's in there and they're like, sorry, you can't go in there. So my toothbrush.

So when she had a moment, Mrs. Gray like forced her way in and found Marjorie's body under the bed. Yeah. Yes. And they were, they were like, well, we'll give you $10 a week if you don't tell anyone about it. And the guys are like, go fuck yourself. So yeah.

And they reported to the police, in the meantime, of course, the body is taken away. But it turns out that when everyone gets questioned, everyone gives conflicting accounts and Burke and Hare end up blaming each other for the whole thing. So the whole thing is fucking busted, wide open. So of course, it leads them to Dr. Knox. And then Janet Brown, the sex worker, identifies her friend's clothes that had been given to Mrs. Hare. Oh.

Yeah. And so they didn't have a lot of hard evidence, but they eventually offered Hare, Willingham Hare immunity in return for testifying against Burke and McDougal. So they're like, well, the death move is named after Burke. So we want him. But if it was called Haring, this would be a different story altogether. So Burke and his wife are charged with Marjorie's murder, but McDougal's eventually set free and not proven under Scottish law.

But Burke is sentenced to death by hanging. So in total, Burke and Hare murdered 16 people within the span of a year. Some people think it was higher than that. And of course, there's no body is to fucking autopsy because they'd already been autopsy. Yeah, that happened already. So pretty much everyone agrees that Margaret Hare knew about the murders, although it's never been proven. But she did get a dollar a week off of them for basically letting them kill people in

her house. So she probably knew about it. And then it's assumed that Helen McDougal maybe didn't know about it, but probably she did. That common law wife that was there the whole time? Yeah. She fucking knew. So on January 28, 1829, in front of a fucking really excited, stoked crowd of over 25,000

people, possibly, I know, William Burke is hanged at Lawn Market and put on public display in Lynn later that day. Here's fucking some fun irony for you. His body is donated to medical science. Shit. That's that Scott or sense of humor that everyone talks about. That's right. The next day, his body is publicly dissected in the same anatomy theater that he had helped

supply with fresh corpses. Fuck. So many. Fuck yeah. I mean gross, but yeah. So many people tried to attend the dissection that a riot ensued. And eventually the university arranged to admit spectators in a group of 50 at a time. They were like, calm down, you'll all get in.

Some people are like, I want to be there for the eyes. As part of the dissection, Professor Murnrow, who he had possibly escaped his death by the hands of Burke and Hare. Okay, here's this is fucking gross. He dips his quill pen into Burke's blood and writes, this is written in the blood of William Burke who was hanged at Edinburgh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like writes a whole thing out with his blood where it's like, dude, can you chill out a little bit? You guys love vengeance, don't you?

Shit. And like all these anatomy students, it was like it was Hala. They all took a piece of him and kept it as souvenirs even using part of his skin to bind books and as card holders. It's like, okay, you guys, who's the fuck up like weirdo now? Yeah, it's... We're all... Step too far, you've gone now full circle.

Yeah. Burke Skeleton and a pocketbook made from the skin is still on display at Surgeon's Hall in Edinburgh. Is it the cutest pocketbook? I saw his death mask and the life mask of Hare's face. Hare was released in 1829. He escaped into England. No one knows what happened to him for sure, but it was rumored he was thrown into a lime

quarry by an angry mob. I think everyone else and the husbands and wives and everyone didn't have a great life after this. I bet. Which is like what we'd hoped for. Let's see. And Dr. Knox is cleared of his involvement completely. Of course.

I know. But he didn't have a great life. His reputation was ruined, blah, blah, blah. In the aftermath of their killing spree, the practice of murdering by suffocation is now known as Birking. And the Birkin Hair Murders led to the Anatomy Act of 1832, which allowed doctors, anatomy lecturers, and medical students greater access to cadavers. Phew.

Don't make them work for it, because then they will. Let them have them and allowed for legal donation of bodies to medical science, effectively ending illegal body snatching. And that's Birkin Hair. Wow. Fuck. That's dark. I know.

It's so dark. It just makes me think of all those times after going to a bar and someone's like, come back to our house. We'll keep drinking. And then you're just like, okay, it sounds great. You're just like, just like a half an inch away from being birked somewhere. Yeah. Yeah.

Right? Yes. Thank you. I'm going to do mine, and I'm going to do Peter Tobin. Listen, in my Uber on the way over here, I was talking to the driver, and he knew this story better than me. And then I was like, this is a terrible mistake I'm making right now. Just like to remind you all, we're in a foreign country, just fucking using Wikipedia like

any other good American would to tell you about your own city's history. We should have him come on stage in sign language, what it really is going on. Exactly. What's actually happening. But what I loved was, as we drove through the city, as we talked about the case, and he goes, oh, yeah, that's right over there, and it was like everything was within three minutes of the street we were driving on every time. Does he have his own true crime podcast we can shout out?

He should, from his Uber. Yeah. That's actually a good idea. Don't steal that. Copyright. Copyright. Say that. Make a note.

Stephen, send it to the government. Okay. Not our government. They're busy. This is such a fascinating and yet insanely horrible. This guy is fucking awful. And then it has this really awesome kind of, or fascinating twist-a-roo that I could not believe.

And Stephen found this one for me. So Stephen. Poor Stephen on his little barf-covered keyboard. Just trying to post one more picture of the cats. I think that's, it's like the only thing that could keep him from posting pictures of your cats. No, he has a phone. Oh, that's right.

The laptop doesn't even come into it. No. You got to call Mimi and be like, barf on his phone. Oh, no. Mimi uses a phone from the 60s. Oh my God. Totally. Hello, Mimi.

Put your Bluetooth headset on. Okay. Hoi, hoi. This is Mimi. This is Mimi. Who's speaking? Dottie's her secretary. Ah.

Stop it. Oh, I got a call just as if we're going to do a pet sidebar. I got a call. It's always bad when you have an unknown caller who calls twice in a row on your phone. That's bad news always. And last night it was 1.30 in the morning, our time in Amsterdam. I get two calls from Burbank and I'm like, fuck, this is one of my neighbors. So I've talked about this a little bit before, but my dog, George, is like a mix.

And she's basically like a lab. Please don't cheer for her. She's fiercely private. But no, she's good except she, I don't know if something bad happened to her. And also she was, when she was a puppy, she lived at like one of those wall climbing places or something because this fucking dog can climb fences. So the fence on the side of my yard is six feet tall. And when she, so she had gotten out of my house a couple of times and I kept thinking,

I was just making up what was happening because my whole yard was totally secure. So I was like, okay, this fence is a little rickety. So I had like two fences replaced because I was like, she got out three times. I live in a, sorry, but I swear this will be over in one second. All my neighbors are assholes and they're old and retired and racist and I hate them. Oh, I'm finally free to say that, I hate them. They love hate. They do.

This city is hard. But when she got out like the third time, so it was like the dog gets out and they immediately all put it on that fucking next door app. I don't know if you guys have that over here, but it's just this app where like retired racist people can like post. I saw a person that was darker than pale walking down the street, lock your doors. It's that shit constantly. And then of course, as I said once on the podcast, daytime raccoon warning, which was

hilarious. I saw daytime raccoon, then we make jokes about it on the podcast, then one raccoon expert tweets at us and is like, actually, if you see a daytime raccoon, that might mean they have rabies. They probably have rabies. So I was like, okay, sorry, sorry about that, I'll correct it. Then somebody else comes in, daytime raccoons are fine. So it's just like, get your fucking raccoon story straight before you start adding me,

telling me what to do. Anyhow, two calls. It's the Burbank dog pound. George fucking scaled that fence again. The same day that Elvis barfed on Steven's laptop, it's like they called each other. We're making a break for it, right? They've been gone too long. Both of our pets were like two weeks is too long.

We're not doing this anymore. Because they love us so much. It's not true. No. Elvis had a stomach ache and this one was like getting out of here. Bored. Yeah. George, I think it's because my dog sitter brings her dogs over and George is like, who

is laying in my spot on the couch? Get away. So anyway, I guess that has no ending. No. Then the dog sitter got her at the pound. Oh, Georgia posted the picture on Instagram and immediately murdering those from across the nation start going, we have to find George and doing all this shit. It's like, no, no.

She was caught. She got out of the yard and immediately picked up by animal control. She didn't make it to the end of our street. She immediately got picked up like, don't organize anything. She was actually never missing. While she was there, I made them give her shots though, so she wouldn't want to go back. The murdering has already recorded an album to sell if I can't bring George home. Please George.

They start making please on television. George, you're a good girl. We love you. We're not mad. What kind of dog are you? You're not in trouble. Focus. I'm trying to talk about something.

So Peter Tobin is born August 27th, 1946 in Johnstone, Renfusher, Scotland. It's probably near a lake, I would imagine. He's the youngest of eight siblings in a big Catholic family. He has four older sisters and three older brothers. And he has immediately labeled a difficult child. When he's seven years old, he's sent to what's called over here an approved school, which sounds to me like in the description, a residential institution where young people are sent by the court for committing offenses deemed beyond parental control.

So it's juvie essentially. So then later he serves time in a young offender institution. There's this line that just says, at some point he joins the French foreign legion but doesn't stay. I'm like, what was that like? That's like somebody high on Wikipedia being like, guess what, I'm going to add. So I have to pass it on because I'm all about misinformation. Okay, so in 1969, he meets his first wife.

He has gone out to a Barrowland ballroom, which is... So in the 60s, there was this, it was like a dance hall. And now I hear it's a gorgeous market. But that's a time it's like where people would go and hang out. I looked it up on Wikipedia, they said it has a sprung floor. So you know that those kind of, when you go to see a rock show and the floor is like bouncy? Oh yeah. Because they used to do that when people were like super into dancing.

And so it was like a place a lot of people went in Glasgow in the 60s. And so he meets a 17-year-old there named Margaret Mountney and they get married and they move to... Jesus. What? Nothing. What happened? That went quick.

They got married. Yeah. They met there and they got married. They met, they danced twice and they're like, let's do this, time's a waste in. So they moved to Brighton over in England, apparently. One year later they get divorced. No judgments. I've been there.

In 1970 he goes to prison in England for burglary and forgery. In 1973 he marries again. This time a 30-year-old nurse named Sylvia Jeffries. They have a son and then they have a daughter. The daughter dies pretty soon after childbirth. And then after three years of marriage Sylvia leaves, takes the son with her. Then 11 years after that, it's December of 1987. And Peter has a new girlfriend, her name's Kathy Wilson.

She gives birth to a son. She's 15 years old. Oh, no. Don't do that. He's much older than, I think he's twice, he's over twice her age. They married two years after their son is born and then at the ripe old age of 18 she leaves him. Goodbye, because all of these wives, all three of his wives later say that they fell for

a man who was very charming and very well-dressed and suave and soon after marriage it's revealed that he's fucking sadistic, violent asshole. And they had all been raped by him, imprisoned by him, beaten by him, and basically he's a psychopath. So in 1993 Peter Tobin moves to Haven, Hampshire to be near his youngest son. And on August 4th, 1993, two 14-year-old girls go to the apartment complex where he lives in Lee Park and they're there to visit one of Peter Tobin's neighbors, but the neighbor isn't home.

So they buzz his apartment and ask if they can come in and wait in his apartment until their friend gets back, because it's fucking, I mean, please don't do that. So as they're there, he starts, he's like, do you want to drink? Let's all drink. Let's drink cider and vodka. And they're like, yeah, no, thanks. He fucking pulls out a knife and holds them at knife point, makes them drink. He then rapes both of them, stabs one of them.

And he fucking turns on the gas to kill them both. His son is there the whole time. But they both end up surviving and so Peter goes on the run. He hides under a false name with Jesus Fellowship in Coventry, the perfect hiding place. But police in Coventry spot his blue Austin Metro and he is captured in Brighton. So he goes on trial on May 18th, 1994 and he pleads guilty and he receives a 14-year prison sentence and he's released 10 years later and he returns to Paisley. I said Paisley wrong.

I think that it's just a great place. Oh, it's the best place in the world. It's where all bad things happen. Paisley! Let's go there on the way to the airport tomorrow. You guys, let's all go right now. You guys, let's rent a bus. Okay.

Well, he moves away from Paisley because he gets it. In November of 2005, but he doesn't tell the cops that he's moving away, which he's not allowed to do, so an award is issued for his arrest. Less than a year later, he shows up back in Glasgow and he is going by the alias Pat McLaughlin. And, right? So he starts showing up at St. Patrick's Catholic Church twice a week because they have a soup kitchen there that's open twice a week, so he's going to the soup kitchen.

And then he basically starts telling the people at the church, priests or whatever, that he will be the handyman there, like he's trying to get a job. And so they employ him as their handyman, and one of the priests calls Frank a godsend. So he's not going to be, because this is, it's at St. Patrick's Church where he crosses paths with a young woman named Angelica Club. So she's a 23-year-old student from Poland, and she's living at the church, she's a cleaner at the church, and she also is getting free room and board. She's trying to make money and save it so she can go to college back in Poland.

But on September 24th, 2006, Angelica disappears. And she's last seen at 2.30 that day by Father Gerard Nugent, and he had, he's the one that hired Angelica, and he had passed by the garage in the chapel house, and he sees Angelica and the handyman, Pat McLaughlin, painting his shed together. And he's like, isn't that nice that we all love the Lord? And that's the last time Angelica is seen alive. So she goes missing, and they report it to the police, and the police start looking into it.

Five days later, they find Angelica's body hidden beneath the floorboards inside the church near the confessional. Oh no, inside the fucking church! So she's been raped, beaten, gagged, bound, and she was stabbed 16 times in the chest. And the worst part of it is, it's all fucking horrible, and the worst part is the evidence showed that she was alive when she was put under those floorboards. And in a church, it's just horrifying. So then...

Have I never heard this one? What's that? Have I never heard this before? Yeah, it's got a lot. So soon after, they put it all together, and Pat McLaughlin, the handyman, who is actually Peter Tobin, is arrested in London. So he goes to trial for Angelica's murder, and begins in Edinburgh on March 23rd, 2007. And when Father Gerard testifies on the stand about having seen Angelica last with the handyman,

he ends up, he's a 63-year-old Catholic priest, he ends up confessing that he'd been having a sexual relationship with Angelica. Is there a Catholic priest here? He's like, I didn't! I just can't... Like, the idea of the people that were at this trial where it's just, sorry, like, wait, sorry, what do you... This is his thing.

What are you doing? This is a fucking episode of Law and Order, like, shit, like, that doesn't happen in real life. It's a total twist-a-roo. He also admits on the stand to being an alcoholic, even though he had gotten sober 10 years earlier, so it really shouldn't be coming into play anymore. But it basically, all of this, it was starting to kind of turn... They were using that as his defense, or like, that Peter Tobin wasn't the only suspect or

whatever. But still, Peter's found guilty because the evidence is overwhelming. Peter Tobin's DNA was found on the kitchen cloth that was in Angelica's mouth. And then his fingerprints were on items that were buried with her body. He's found guilty. He's sentenced to life imprisonment, to serve a minimum of 21 years, and, of course, Father Gerard has to step down as the parish priest. Seems fair.

So then, when he is arrested for Angelica's murder, authorities noticed that when Peter Tobin, he was living in Bathgate at the same time as... It's good and bad? Good and bad is what I'm... I know. I don't know how you guys feel about these places. Or somebody in the middle of the room is on a roller coaster. That's what it actually sounds like.

I'm just like, I mean, I like it, there are my families there, but then also I get beaten up a lot. A lot of feelings. Oh, there's a twistaroo. There's several. It's so fucking crazy. So basically, the cops, there is a cold case. So there's a 15-year-old girl named Vicki Hamilton who had disappeared.

She was last seen February 10th, 1991. She had spent the weekend with her sister Sharon. She was trying to take the bus back home to her mother's house near Fallkirk. Whoa. Fallkirk sounds amazing. Overwhelmingly. Okay. This was the first time that she was taking the bus alone.

So she was super worried because she had to transfer at some point and switch buses. So she kept asking people for help and which bus she should take. And so she's last seen waiting for her second bus in Bathgate. Her purse is found in San Andrew Square in Edinburgh on February 21st, 1991. So they file a missing persons report. Police are thinking that she's a runaway because they end up finding, because her purse is found and they're like, it seems like she went to London and she was basically going the opposite direction, like trying to get out of her hometown.

They spend two months looking for her in London and they can't find her and the case goes cold. So in the spring of 2006, they reopened that file and take it out of cold case and then they're looking at all the statements and all the evidence and basically the new investigators like this girl was murdered. This isn't just a, this isn't a runaway and this is a normal disappearance. So they submit Vicki's purse for DNA testing and they find the DNA on the purse of Peter Tobin's three-year-old son.

Oh, shit. And then what they, they start looking at the purse and so Tobin's son was staying with him three days after Vicki went missing. And what they, when they actually examined the purse, they see that it suggests the boy had bitten it, like his father gave it to him as a toy to like distract him with. Oh my God. Yeah. So they believe they're putting it together because he lived in Bathgate at the time that

he was one of the eight people that Vicki had asked for help when she was trying to figure out what bus to take. So on November 14th, 2007, the police get a warrant and they dig a fucking six-foot pit in Peter Tobin's backyard and they find a slab of concrete underneath, underneath the dirt and the grass. They find a slab of concrete, which is always bad. Underneath it, Vicki Hamilton's remains are wrapped in plastic and they find four of Peter Tobin's fingerprints on her body and they find evidence of bruising on her arms and

her neck and traces of the sedative amitriptyline in her liver. She's been cut up, essentially. It's so crazy that like, I mean, I'm always like, how many bodies are buried in the woods? But it's like, what about the fucking backyards of people? The backyards. That's terrible. That's right. It's horrifying.

Well, and just hold on to that table because meters away from where Vicki's body is, they find a second body under the slab and it's 18-year-old dynamic nickel who had been missing since August 5th, 1991. Holy shit. So, Dina was hitchhiking home from a music festival with a guy that she met at the music festival named David Trumlet and they get a ride from a guy at a petrol station, that's a gas station. Petrol.

And they make a move that is like, why? They drop David off first. She is four foot, like 11, I think it said. She's a tiny little girl, gets left alone in the car with this fucking random dude and she's never seen again. And after her disappearance, there's regular withdrawals of 250 pounds from her bank account and her friends and family keep telling the police she wouldn't do that because she was trying to save up her money to go to college and for traveling.

So she wouldn't just be fucking randomly spending a bunch of money. But it would be 18 years before her family would ever know what happened to her. And until basically they dig up this backyard. So Peter Tobin's second trial on December 2, 2008, he's convicted of Vicki Hamilton's murder after a month long trial and he's sentenced to life in prison. And the judge said, quote, yet again, you have shown yourself to be unfit to live in a decent society. It's hard for me to convey the loathing and revulsion that ordinary people will feel for

what you have done. I fixed the minimum period, which you must spend in custody to be 30 years. Yeah. So then Dynastrial is set for June of 2009, but then Peter Tobin gets ill. He has to get surgery. So then they resume it. It starts on December 14. Two days later, he is convicted of her murder.

Not that month long shit. They're just like, yep, it's a yes. This results in his third fucking life sentence. And they said that he sat in the courtroom with no emotion while two members of the jury wept during the proceedings because the details of everything were so terrible. Now of course, this was huge, huge news here. And so as the news breaks, people are seeing it on their TVs. And so then here comes this, we'd have to skip to a page now, ready?

Yeah. When the Barrowland, so there's a, there's a cop who has been retired. He was a cop during the 60s and he worked on a thing called the Bible, John Barrow. Barrowland ballroom murders. Oh. Yes. And when he sees the picture of Peter Tobin on television, he says, quote, this is as near to Bible John as you're going to get.

Shit. That's Bible John. And then two women come forward and say, I saw Peter Tobin on the news. And one woman said she had been raped by Peter Tobin when she met him at the Barrowland ballroom in Glasgow in 1968 around the time of the Bible John killings. And when she saw the picture of him on TV, 40 years later, she said her legs gave way. And the same thing happened. Another woman came forward in 2010 when she saw his picture and said that she had had

a threatening experience with this, who she thought was Peter Tobin at the Barrowland ballroom. She said, I, it was the man who came up to me so many years ago in Barrowlands. I am 100% certain Tobin is Bible John. Okay. So now we go back. Oh my God. This is like the most exciting fucking story I've ever heard in my life. It's fucking not so bizarre.

And it's very similar. It reminds me that parallel of East area rape is totally just like this thing. If you keep letting these people out and they're the certain style of psychopath, they just keep escalating and they just keep fucking killing. So basically it started on February 23, 1968, the naked body of a 25-year-old nurse and mother named Patricia Docker is found by a man who's on his way to work in a lane behind Carmack, Michael Place, and Glasgow. She's been raped and strangled yards away from her home.

Then the night before, she told her parents that she was going out dancing at the majestic ballroom on Hope Street, but then she switched it up and she ended up going to Barrowland ballroom for the 25 and older night. Get those fucking kids out of here. No, we're not doing the twist. Her clothes and the handbag are never found. And then on Friday, August 15, 1969, 32-year-old mother of three, Jemima McDonald, goes out for a night at the Barrowland ballroom.

She does not return. And then that weekend, this is super fucked up, her sister knows that she hasn't come back. She's super worried and she starts to hear rumors in the neighborhood of the little kids talking about how they've seen a dead body in an old tenement building on McKeith Street. Oh, no. So she's, of course, more and more worried, so finally she goes to the old tenement building

to check and she finds her own sister's dead body there. She's been strangled, raped, and beaten to death. She was fully clothed. So witnesses say that they had seen her, Jemima, leaving the Barrowland ballroom at midnight with a tall, slim, young man with red hair. And another witness said that they heard screams coming from that building on McKeith Street. A month later, on October 31, 1969, 29-year-old Helen Puddock is found murdered in her own

back in the backyard of her flat. She had also been to the Barrowland ballroom the night she was murdered. She and her sister, Jean, had met two men, both named John there. They hung out for an hour, they decided to head home. The first guy named John left, this was like, good night, I'm going to go take the bus. And so Helen, Jean, and the second John, they got a taxi headed toward Knightswood, which is where Jean lived. And the second John, who shared the cab with them, was very well-spoken, very well-dressed,

and he quoted from the Bible a lot. And this is where they got the name Bible, John. Oh my God, that's so creepy. It's so fucking creepy. Like you're chatting with a guy at a club, and then he's like, Ecclesiastes, 39735. Fuck. It's like the thing of like, he was charming and well-spoken, that doesn't fit with, and he kept quoting the fucking Bible.

Like, that's bananas, and this is not. Right. I think that Bible quotes were big in the late 60s. Not really. Bible John is like such a creepy name. It's so creepy. This whole thing. So Jean was dropped off, and Helen and John, so basically her sister's like, oh, you like

this guy? Yeah. And he's really well-dressed and loves the fucking Bible, so I'm going to let you go with him. And they were going to go to Helen's house. She's found raped and strangled. Her purse is missing. The contents of it are strewn all about in the backyard, and there's grass stains on

the bottom of her feet, which indicate that she probably tried to get away from him at some point, and she had a deep bite mark on her leg. And a man who matched Jean's description of Bible John was seen in a disheveled state getting on a bus at 1.30 in the morning on Gray Street with scratches on his fucking face. Oh, yeah. This is the weird detail that's super creepy. These three women, these victims of Bible John, all of them had been on their period, and all of their bodies were found with either a sanitary napkin or a tampon on or next to

their body. What the fuck? Yeah. It's gross anyway. It's gross by itself. So here's some of the similarities between Peter Tobin and Bible John. So Peter's former wives alleged that he was driven to violence by the menstrual cycle, which was something that was a Bible John motive as well.

Peter Tobin was Roman Catholic with strong religious views. He had moved away from Glasgow in 1969, which is when the murders stopped in Glasgow. So what basically the timeline completely lines up to fucking creepo Peter Tobin. I think he did it. Do you? Yeah. I think it's him. I get a really strong feeling that he did it too.

But because the evidence was old and it's, you know, from the late 60s, they can never connect him like with anything that's like sufficient, and Peter Tobin is currently serving his life sentence at the prison in Edinburgh, and he is reported to have bragged about killing up to 48 victims in prison. Holy shit. Let's go get him right now. Well he has had a stroke. He had a stroke two years ago, so, so at least we have that.

And that's the fucking super fucked up story of Peter Tobin, who could also be Bible John. Oh, my God, so awful. That's fucking insane. So crazy. Goodbye. I know tonight in that I'm just going to be fucking scrolling all night reading about it. I know.

And like, yeah. Yeah. Good job. Thanks so much. That's really nice of you. Hey, hey, all of our homework is done for this tour. Yay. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Our homework. I mean, just ripping this dress open. Do we have time for our hometown? Let's do hometown. Yeah. Let's make you do some of the work now. Yeah.

You do the work for us. All right. Hands down. Karen's going to tell you some stuff. Oh, here's the rules. You've probably heard these before, but if you haven't. So this is the part where we want one of you to come up here and tell us your hometown murder, the thing that got you into true crime or that affected you or that, you know, whatever

fascinated you as a kid or whenever, whenever you wanted to. Now it's fine. Oh, my God. Whoa. It's hard, isn't it? It's hard to be in the spotlight. So here's just some recommendations for us. We would love it if it this, if you have a Glasgow story, we would love to hear it.

That's the dream. We certainly don't want to hear a story if you're from Arizona. We just don't give a shit. We're fucking here. Let's celebrate it. It's great when your story has a beginning, a middle and an end. And that's not only for tonight for the hometown, but in life. Don't be one of those people that just fucking talks about dumb shit and then walks away.

You can be as drunk as you want as long as you can follow your own train of thought. And that's up to you. You're the only person who knows when you get boring. And if you get picked, just remember everyone else hates you. So I would keep it snappy. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.

Do you want to try it tonight? Do you want me to? Do you want to do it this time? I think this is your city. Or it's, you guys, I lived here for three months in 2000, in the year 2000. So I'm like, it's yours. So I really, yeah, I'd call this my city. Do you want to do it or should we have?

Should we have Vince do it? We're thinking we have Vince do it now. Let's give Vince a little something since he almost got arrested in Amsterdam this morning. For us. Oh, there he is right here. Vince, you want to do it? All right. Vince?

Are you scared because you're very close to them? Yeah, do it. All right, Vince, be discerning. Put your hand up if you have a story and you can play by all those rules. Our marriage is on the line. I'm going to talk to Doug about this. Uh-oh. Red hair, red hair.

Oh, yeah. She's cute. While she's coming up here, our friend from the strange and unusual podcast is here tonight. Oh. Right? Where is she? She's way back there. Are you serious?

We would have put you up here. Do you guys listen to that? It's a fucking great podcast. Strange and unusual. Listen to that podcast. Oh, yes. Here we go. I love it.

Here we go. Hi. Oh, Vince might get bumped up to first class and this is a good one today. This is how he earns dinner. Hi. Okay, you can turn the lights down because she'll fucking freak out if she sees you in these faces. It's really scary.

Please. How are you? Hey. Great job. You've done great this whole tour. Thank you so much. Hi. Thanks, Kate.

Jake. Hi. Hi, honey. You two here. Come over here. Hi, hi, hi. Center out. This is Kate, everybody.

Is that that beer that has iron in it? Iron, yeah. Is it beer? No, it's just an energy. No, no. Just a drink that's great for hangovers. Yes. Where are you from?

I'm from just a little satellite town called East Kilbride. We're a parliament city in the house. Okay. You ready to host your hometown? Yeah. You got this. So when I was about 14, we had these neighbors move in and their sons were a dicks. Wait, wait.

Translate. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks.

Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks.

Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks.

Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks. Dicks mit der mile2021 eyebrinier 2004. Okeen.

Dicks boy, which was the same age as me, after, you know, Glasgow, you know, about Ranger Celtic. Ranger. An old firm match, a Ranger Celtic football match. Ranger Celtic match. Yeah, I was my favourite. I used to do this for watching all the time. This guy was at the pub and a guy in a Rangers football top bumped into him and they wanted to question me because a guy came up the street with a baseball bat. So they were like, do you know him? Have you ever hung about with him? And I was like, no.

Yeah, it's smart. And basically, he murdered this guy with a baseball bat. Because he bumped into him? Yeah. And he had the wrong football jersey on? Yeah, he was on Buckfast. But violent. It's okay.

There's a term in Glasgow that Buckfast makes you fuck fast. It's a horrible, horrible drink made by monks. Like, oh, it's horrible, disgusting. Like, is it, what is it, like a Yeagermeister type of situation? It's like this, I've only drank it once in a can. I was 14 and I woke up in somebody's house and I was like, where am I? We could have been reading about you tonight. So it's really quick. What does it taste like? Like, when it's really like, if you stick it in the fridge, it's really thick and syrupy. I can't even describe it.

It's like, no. I don't know what you're saying, but I'll try it later. Yeah. So anyway, this guy turns out, and I still, I still know his mum has still talked to her because she likes my wee doggies. And she was the one that, when he came home and took the baseball bat, she knew for some reason when she heard about the murder, it was him. And she's such a lovely woman. She was the one that called the police. And it says, my son done this.

Oh. She's amazing women. That's hard. So anyway, it got like, it got a really shitty sentence. I think it got like 15 years. His name was Andrew Day-Dane or something. Dick. Andrew. Andrew, yeah, we dick.

Yeah, so, yeah. Kate, this is Kate. That was awesome. Thank you so much. Perfect. You're not great. Nailed it. Yes.

Kate. Yes. Oh. You always want the last hometown to be fucking good. Yes. And that was, that was it. They were, they were decks. They were decks. I thought you said something because I wasn't going to say anything.

You're like, what? Gorgeous redwood decks. Oh, I heard. Hey. Good job. You're number one. Who are you covering your boobs? It's too late now. We song.

Well, shit. You guys. That's been our European fucking tour, everybody. Wow. Good job. Good job to you. Thanks. What the fuck?

I know. We cannot believe this is our life. It's so insane. It's just incredible. It's been really like, we've been working hard and it's been stressful. I'm doing homework and suddenly when you said that, I'm like, holy shit, we've been in Europe with a fucking podcast that we started two years ago in my living room. It's incredible.

We're as weirded out as all the people who are brought here tonight who don't listen to this podcast. Yeah. But we fucking owe this to you guys so much and we really appreciate it. We're so blessed to have this insane thing going on. We love you. I wish we could stand here and scream and clap for you guys as much as we get it from you because it really is, it's a dream fucking job that we now get to do full time.

We get to come out and we get to talk about the thing that we like the best that I think you guys like the best and have like a fun, cool conversation about true crime and laugh and we get the benefit of the doubt and everyone's fucking rad and it's just, it's such a fucking honor. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. Are you going to cry? No.

I'm going to cry. I want to cry. Thank you. Thank you Glasgow. Thank you guys. Did you do it? Are you doing it? Hey.

Shit. You know what? Thank you. Thank you. That really means something because we know you guys don't like anything so that's very touching. Well, stay sexy. And jump.

Thank you Glasgow.