My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 155 - You Don’t Know What You Don’t Know

Episode Date: January 10, 2019

Karen and Georgia cover the murders of Su Taraskiewicz and Abraham Shakespeare.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. This is your comedy true crime podcast that you check in with weekly. Yeah, just to see how, how are you doing? Just see how we doing. Hey, hey, how are we doing? Here's, here's one way we're doing. Right now I have an imported Australian cookie in my hand. Fuck yeah, you do. A good friend of ours, name, insert name here later, sent us a box of Australian candy and cookies and to that person named to be inserted later.

It's the gal who made us those candy hearts. Even with her name. Jess. Jess, what's her something by vintage shit. Shit. Fuck. No way. She sent us a bunch of Australian candies and cookies and we're eating guys from in America. I didn't know this till we went to Australia. There's this thing that they fucking have called hundreds and thousands. It's just sprinkles on everything. It actually, you know, it's kind of like a cookie, an Australian cookie version of a pop tart. Yeah. It's a pop tart feel. No jam. No, no, nothing in the middle. It's just kind of like dry and flaky with pink and sprinkles on top. But then for some reason, it's the best cookie. Yeah. For the love of vintage. Yes, we did an unboxing and she sent us a bunch of cute of her.

What is it called? Crafts. And then a bunch of candy too, which is just the way to get our attention for sure. Yeah. So we've been eating. We're here in the office. We're at the exactly right offices right now. That's right. We unboxed that that unboxed box was sitting in the office kitchen. So we've just been slowly all day long eating Tim Tams and hundreds and thousands. You can see that unboxing video. Hey, we never plug the fan cult. Are we embarrassed to plug the fan? Are we embarrassing? Yes, ourselves. We have a fan cult. If you go to my favorite murder.com, you can join. You get a fucking exclusive t-shirt and pen. We're about to we're now going to do it for every live show. We're going to do a two ticket giveaway. Yes.

Now, but we put very exciting unboxing videos of like gifts, people fucking send us once a week too. Yeah. And those that ticket giveaway starts at the San Diego shows for this weekend. So if you're in the San Diego area, you belong to the fan cult or you want to join this that you didn't get tickets. Get on there and you can enter to win two tickets to one of the two shows that we're doing in San Diego. And we come out of this offstage and hug you right in the audience. I didn't tell you that, but that's part of it. That's written in the fine print. Karen has to hug. Yeah. I'll find and dive right into that. Remember that live show? It was very it's the first tour when I left the stage and went in to went and yelled at the girl in the audience. Yes. Waguely.

Was I drinking at shows then still? I don't know. All I know is that once I was out there, I was like, oh, I should not have just walked away and left her alone. That's right. I was like, we're always because we were giving someone shit for going to the bathroom. Like not being there when we called them. Oh, you were going to go sit in her seat. Yeah. And only when I got to her seat did I realize what a bad plan and how I didn't really think it through. Let's do it at every show this tour. That's what we're saying is these live shows are unpredictable. It'll be this. They'll be that. We're out there with you. We're up here with ourselves. We're here. We're there. We're everywhere. Oh, do you have my thing? Thanks for asking. I have a pressing correction

quarter that here's what's cool about this part. Let's not paint ourselves into intellectual corners where we start doubting every goddamn fucking word we say. Never. Especially since we have listeners and friends out there. This person we met when we were at the Vancouver show. Her name is Yukari. And she told us when we met her in the meet and greet that she translates this podcast for Japanese listeners and people who only speak Japanese, which we were like, what? How? Why? Are there enough people? Is this a thing? Really? It was really fun, exciting. She was super cool to talk to. And luckily, with all the kindness in her heart, I'm assuming, she checked in the morning after the last episode we did to let me know that I had

mistermed something. It was her and a bunch of anime dudes that were stoked. That's a correct word. I was talking about the thing that there's a Japanese term for when your iris doesn't touch the bottom lid. And I said it was called seppuku. And you know what? And I went, yeah, because you said it, this just shows me what a follower I am. Not that I would have known either way, but you said it was such confidence. I was like, wow, I can't believe Karen knows that. That's so impressive. And you just like, you had it. You didn't even like pause. Yeah. That was amazing. And this is thanks for pointing that out. This is the problem area. Because when I see moment, my brain collects information like that and files it away. You should see me play Jeopardy

at home. Oh my God, I bet you're amazing. Mind blowing. But when we record our conversations and every single thing needs to be right, it's absolutely not. Does it? Well, so seppuku, the thing that I called the whites of the eyes is actually another word for harakiri, which is the way when you have an honor suicide in Japan and you run a sword through your own stomach while on your knees. And then I believe twisting it. No. I think that's where that twisting the knife saying comes from. But that absolutely. And Yukari, please let me know how wrong I am. That could be wrong. Now we're just talking. We can't stop. We're saying that we shouldn't do it. And then we just won't fucking stop. I won't stop. The real term I should have

used was Sampaku. This is the message, the very lovely message. Hi, Karakiri, just listened to the latest MFM. Sampuku is Japanese suicide ritual. What you meant was Sampuku, but she actually spelled that Sampuku gun, which literally means three white eye, because that means there's three spaces around your iris to the right, to the left, and on the bottom. And there should only be the two. This is the new five head. Exactly. Because we're my two head. I have a teeny tiny two head. She also said it's not good in fizzenomogy. Fizzenomy. Fizzenomy. Okay. Anyway, Yukari, thank you so much for kindly pointing that out. And everybody, could we just please all start using correct Japanese terms all the time? Let's please. We're offending the

Japanese public that are listening to this in Japanese. Oh, can I? It seems like I should probably ritually commit suicide because I have shamed my ancestors by being so wrong. Speaking of shame, can we have what will probably is the first and will probably be the only? I was fucking right. Georgia told you so. Sure. Moment. When we were at last week and we had recorded, we had recorded, we had recorded, what are they called? And ads and ads. And I turned to you and Stephen and I said, Karen, I think you said penis instead of products. Was that it? I don't remember. Do you remember? Pieces, pieces of furniture. I swear you said penis is a furniture. And you're both like, no, I don't think you hear that. Well, Stephen and I were like,

yeah, we don't know what you're talking about. But now I've said the word penis more times than anyone on this podcast. Required for the story. Not your problem. But then we got tweets from people and then Georgia was like, I fucking told you. But I honestly, of course I didn't hear it because I'm the misspeaker. I think I know what I said. And then Stephen was just like, no. If you both agreed, I was like, well, then I'm wrong. You're outnumbered. There's nothing you can do. I thought it was like a Laurel and Yanny situation. Oh, yeah. I heard pieces of furniture. Laurel and big talks. What? Well, now we've said penis more times than necessary. So that's the last. Well, I hope you've all learned your lesson. Georgia shouldn't do that.

What else? Do you want to hear a cool email? This is rad. We went on at length last week talking about Lucky Luciano, the gangster, and of course, the beautiful actor that played him on Boardwalk Empire. Then we got this email. Subject line, Lucky Luciano was brought down by a rad as fuck black female prosecutor. Yes. Did you ever know or hear anything about this? No. Of course not. Guys. They don't teach this in public fucking school. This is the shit that goes unspoken and then everyone's maddening to me. Okay. Love your podcast, you, the cats, dogs, the vents, etc. I was listening to your recent app that talked about Lucky Luciano and thought you'd love to know that three that the three piece suit motherfucker was brought down exclusively because of a rad as

fuck woman. Eunice Carter was the granddaughter of slaves, a cum laude graduate of Smith College and Fordham University. And she is intensely not here for any bullshit. She was one of New York's first female African American lawyers and one of the first prosecutors of color in the United States. She worked for Thomas Dewey, a special prosecutor in the 1930s to take on the mob in New York City. He hired 20 lawyers, 19 white men and Eunice Carter. Okay. As a team, they mostly focus on loan sharking and kidnapping and murder, but they toss Eunice the sex work stuff to cover because you know, woman Eunice being sharp, the sharp tack she is. Notice that women arrested for prostitution from all over New York City were represented by the same lawyers and bail

bondsman. Those agents had relationships with Lucky. She established that the sex workers were required to kick back half their earnings to crime bosses in exchange for legal representation. And Lucky was profiting from the prostitution. Holy shit. She was the only assistant on Dewey's team who ever connected him with any crime and is the reason he was sent to prison. Holy shit. Her grandson wrote a book about her called Invisible and I highly recommend it to every living person. Yes. That's our new fucking book club, right? Yeah. Let's all read Invisible. That's cool. Stay sexy and don't mess with women because they are smart as hell, Julia in Seattle. Julia, thank you for fucking sending that. That is, I'm so happy to know that and I love that.

I love knowing that. Such a good little piece of info. Let's all get the book Invisible and give ourselves a couple weeks. Can I listen to it? I have to listen to it. Okay, great. I, yeah. And then let's have a convo and you guys join us in buying the book Invisible. What that means is like with Sweet Audrina, we'll never talk about it again. No, we absolutely. Well, we bailed on Sweet Audrina because we were like, it was creeping us out. Remember? Yeah. We're like, oh, I was a kid and this turned me on. Yes. We should get out of here. I think we were having shame spiral things around that book and we didn't want to like shit on, you know, the author. It was like a whole thing was reopening. Yeah. You're like, oh, that's why I'm into that porn. Yeah.

That's why I'm into attic porn. That explains everything. Yeah. That's why you trip over the word attic. That's it. That's it for me. Business wise. I don't think I have anything. No business whatsoever. We're about to start our fucking tour tomorrow in San Diego. Did you say San Diego? Yeah, my mom used to call it that. Did you say San Pinas? It's unbelievable because it honestly feels like the winter tour just ended two days ago. It does. And what they're calling the spring tour, which is like, it's fucking January 10th, friends. We had like our merch company draw us up the poster or like whatever and we approved it because we were like, it looks great and it was all snowy and shit. Yeah. And then we're like,

wait a second, the people who get this in May are gonna be like, what the fuck? They're gonna be like, thanks for this snow, the snow drift pines. Yeah. Hold on to it till winter. What's happening with your spring tour guys? Right. Way to go. But we're very excited to be out visiting you and seeing you again. It's very, it is exciting. We complain so much. Oh, we're great at it. And at the end of the tour, our fucking book comes out. Yeah. Of all things. Yes. It's very exciting. I'm really nervous. I've been giving, we've gotten some like advanced partial copies and I've been giving them to trusted, a couple trusted friends and saying, just tell me the truth, everything. And then one of them like

did, Crystal didn't, I thought she read it right away and just didn't text me about it. You know that thing of, well, I'm just going to say nothing. It was like, oh, shit. Yeah. Turns out she's busy and has a life and I'm ready yet when she did. Yeah. She probably didn't like take it and sit home immediately. Well, that's what I was hoping for. I know. I know. It's very, listen, this is that thing. This is that thing of like, this is why unless somebody, I don't listen to criticism from anyone unless they have put their own ass on the line and put their actual creativity out there because it is the hardest thing to do to make something that is of your own. It's a really good rule. And put it out. Yeah. And that's why like, people can tell you,

I hate this. I think whatever. But it's your vulnerability that they're reading about, which is so easy to like, to criticize it. Well, and also if they've never done the same, I mean, this is straight out of Darren Greatley by Brene Brown. But if they've never done the same, their opinion can't count because they don't know what it means. That's right. So like, we wrote a double memoir where we dredge up every stupid fucking thing we've ever done and try to make it entertaining. And then we, like, I didn't even think about it until people started telling us, oh, I got the advance. I like it or whatever, where I was like, oh, fuck, I forgot that's public. Yeah. And so now we're just stuck in that feeling. Well, that's a good point. And I gave my, you

know, Kat Solin, who's designed some of our awesome merch, and she also has a TV show on Adult Swim called The Shivering Truth. So she fucking puts herself out all the time. Yeah. And she read it and said she started crying three times already. So I'm like, Oh, great. God bless her. Yes. God bless. That's all we want is for you to fucking whimper and ball and into the book. Yeah. Exactly. It's, um, yeah, it's creepy. I think when we did it, we just, I certainly was not thinking about the actual end result deadlines. Yeah. So you poured it all out. Here's your homework, motherfucker. And then you think you're going to walk away and never look, never see it again. And then you're like, Oh, this again. Yeah. Great. Right. Here we go. Um, that was

vulnerability. Corner, corner, corner, corner, corner. Um, I'm first. You're first. Thank God, I've only had a half a can of wine. I'm going to buck it, uh, bust right into another hundreds and thousands. Get in there girl. Because the big tour's coming up. Yeah. Because you know how much people love eating on microphone. Um, this is the murder of Susan Taraskowitz. Okay. Great. She goes by Sue. That's what we're going to call her. Okay. Great. Here she is. It's 1992. Sue is, uh, 27 years old. She works for the Northwest Airlines, Boston Logan international airport. So Northwest Airlines used to be an airline. I'm assuming it was. I used to fly on it. Also, I believe Boston Logan airport is pronounced

Worcester. If I'm not incorrect with that. Thank you very much. So, um, Sue is this lovely all American gal. She graduates high school in Saugus, Massachusetts, fucking down home, Massachusetts gal. She becomes a reserve firefighter. Uh, and then she gets a job at the airlines. And within five years, she works her way up from cleaning airplane cabins to becoming the first woman in the history of the company to hold the position of ramp supervisor. Wow. Yeah. Uh, and like, like me or like what the fuck is a ramp supervisor? It sounds great. Is it those ramps? Like she connects the plane to the walkway? I wrote it down. Okay. I wrote, what is that job? Supervise and coordinate the activities of ground crew in the loading. So she's fucking supervising everyone in the

loading, unloading, securing and staging of aircraft cargo or baggage. Whoa. And she, um, it also like has to do with like gravity. Like you, I didn't know this. You don't just fucking throw suitcases on. It's like the heavy ones go here, this goes here or else the plane's gonna fucking crash. So she's the supervisor of all the people doing that. Yeah. She must be great at Tetris. Oh, she's just like, Oh, hold that one there. Oh, right. Get that L shaped one over here. Right. The one full of chickens, put it in the back. That's just a plane square. That's mine. That can go anywhere. So she's the, she is the first fucking woman to hold this job. So awesome. Amazing. And she's also the only, the second ever female ground service employee working

for the airline ever. So she's already fucking breaking glass. It's so funny because it's also recent. It's, we're not talking about the seventies. Yeah. So Sue obviously is super hard working. She's like 27 when she fucking accomplishes this. She's super hard working. She's intelligent. She has a big heart. She's got a ton of Ritzba. She's a pretty brunette, tall and slim, but feisty. She once jumped in to break up a fight between two male colleagues. So she's like, love it. Not fucking around. No, she's fine. So one of the perks of her job is just a little bit about her was meeting famous people because they were getting on the plane and she had an autograph book who she would have the famous people sign, which is like the most pure hearted thing I've

ever heard of in my life. Right. I used to do that have autograph books. Yes. Cause it's usually you had one as a kid. I totally had one. Yeah. Um, nobody signed it ever. Yeah. Look, it's the mayor of Irvine. Hey, everybody. Then you just start getting your friends to sign up. You're like, can we just fill this thing up? Yeah. Yes. And my dreams were crushed. Um, so Sue's dream was to be a cartoonist, but everyone was like, it's really hard to do that. But she was obsessed with peanuts and had even met Charles Schultz once. All American women, tons of ambition. And by 27 years old, already paying off. Uh, but this is called the murder of Sue Terrell Schultz. So it doesn't go well. So, uh, on September 12th, 1992, Sue's working her graveyard

shift, 11pm to seven fucking AM, you know, in the freezing cold Boston air. Um, around 1am, um, she leaves the airport to pick up sandwiches at a nearby sandwich shop for the crew. This is an unsolved mysteries, by the way. Oh, wow. Yeah. Uh, she never comes back to work after she goes to get sandwiches and no one ever reports her missing. And in fact, the really weird thing is her timecard reflects that she clocked out at the end of her shift that night and clocked in the next morning. Okay. So there's an inside element to this. Yep. But the reality is Sue was missing as of her sandwich run. So because of this timecard forging, she's not officially reported missing for 36 hours. When her parents finally realized

that she's missing, they go to the police station on the morning of September 14th, it's Monday morning, only to be told that their daughter's body had just been found. I know. And her parents were like, her mom's amazing. Sue's blue Toyota Tracelle had been found early that morning, Monday morning, parked at an auto body shop in Revere, which is about four miles from the airport. And the shop had been closed on Sunday the day before. So when they got to work that morning, someone noticed that blood was dripping from the trunk of a car. I know. And call the police. It's so awful. When police arrived, they opened Sue's truck and found her body inside.

In her own car. In her own car. She had been badly beaten and then stabbed multiple times. Oh, awful. Obviously. Okay, so obviously you're fucking one of her coworkers or someone had fudged your timecard. But why? Like, I'm sure you did that before, right? Your friend's like, I'm running late. I mean, can you can you blur or bleep the bleep that accusation bleep the place I just mentioned you worked at? Oh, yeah, like people covering for you or going like, yeah, I don't can you make sure I it doesn't look like I'm 10 minutes late, right? Or I'm leaving three hours early. You clock me out when you leave. Right. But that's like for people like working menial jobs that you don't care about, not for people who work their way up.

And certainly not for the boss. I mean, she's in charge of everybody. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not doesn't seem like a request she would make or request, you know, whatever. So but it wasn't her, her, her mother, her parents, her mother's name is Marlene. They weren't even thinking about that question because there was no sign of robbery or rape. So the family was just led to believe that Sue was the victim of a random crime. So they didn't consider the time card. And her mother Marlene, lovely fucking woman, she believes all that until late 1993. So a year later. So Sue's mother is going through her daughter's old room and discovers Sue's diary. Oh, oh, shit. Marlene is fucking surprised to read Sue's detailed accounts of the rampant sexual

harassment that she had been enduring at work leading up to her murder. Oh, no. Marlene reads House and of course, Marlene, I mean, of course, Sue didn't want to worry her family and worry her parents about it. So she just wrote it in her diary. Her mom had no fucking clue about any of this. Right. Marlene reads how Sue's male co workers and underlings had held a campaign of harassment against her. They spray painted obscene graffiti about her on cold cargo holds and employee bathrooms. And they had vandalized her car. She frequently complained with the manager and or like filed complaints with the management at Northwest Airlines and her union. But of course, it's fucking 92. And even now, very little is done. When Sue continues to launch

camp complaints, she started getting anonymous threatening phone calls in the middle of the night. Yeah. And this is before she's promoted to ramp supervisor. The job originally went to another male employee. And it turned out that he had illegally bid on the position. So when she filed a grievance to her union about it, and one, and so this guy got fucking fired from the job, the harassment, of course, got worse. Yeah. And to the point where Sue discovered a drawing of a coffin with her name on it, scrolled inside her locker. Wow. Isn't this awful? Yeah. But also, I think it's just goes to show people like to dismiss sexual harassment as like, oh, well, you can't hang with the boys or you can't this or that. But oftentimes, and I've said this to

people, I read this, it was worded really well in an article I read once, but it's basically like trying to say to regular guys, you need to notice the dudes that insight this shit, because those aren't normal brains. If there's a person who's like, let's go get her. Yeah. There needs to be actioned by the dudes that are in the group, but don't feel that way. Right. Because they're under their own kind of peer pressure to go along and get even if it's not like let's get her if a guy, you know, he remarks on her ass or something. It's like even without her hearing, it's that I don't talk like that. And I don't, you know, that's not how you live. Or just shut the fuck up. Yeah. Every once in a while. Right. But sometimes if those pressures or those groups are too intense,

then then people start going along. It's making me think about that. Charlize, they're on a coal mining movie. Oh, yeah. It's unbelievable. It's basically it's similar, but it's not murder. But yeah, it's just that idea of like boys when you're in a boys club, how those boys clubs can go insane if there's a woman in the mix, they go insane. They, yeah, it's really horrible. And it just, you know, another example of how being a woman is a threat to your life and to your livelihood. It's just being a woman, nothing more than that. And and also having ambition. And God forbid. Totally. Yeah. Fucking breaking up the boys club. Yeah. And so in her diary, soon names names of who her harassers were. Okay. Thank God. I know. Yeah. So changing

the fucking changing gears, switching gears. It turns out that the month before Sue's murder, several Northwest baggage handlers had been subpoenaed to testify before the federal grand jury, because they were investing the theft of hundreds of credit cards that had been shipped on Northwest Airlines flights to Boston, and then fucking stolen. So someone at Boston, when the when the credit cards got in there on the plane had stolen those credit cards. And the credit cards were being used to buy jewelry and get cash advances in casinos and racetracks in Las Vegas, Atlantic City. Was it Donald Trump? Those are all his spots. Probably. Well, it says this is I didn't notice this before it says Las Vegas, Atlantic City, and Fox Woods in Connecticut. I don't know what that is.

Fox Woods is a casino and a lot of comics do shows there. So if you live near 30 dancing, you know, I have no idea. All I know is that I hear comics going like, oh, I'm going to play Fox doing Fox Woods. And it's apparently a cool gig. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's where I'm vacationing this summer. Get up there. They ended up netting whoever stole it ended up netting over $7 million. Jesus. Wow. And that's 90s money. That's 90s money, which now we know is worth $31 million. So the Secret Service, the FBI, and of course, you know, the fucking superheroes of the world, the U.S. Postal Inspection Service. Yes. We're involved in the investigation. And it turns out that some of the fucking very baggage handlers that Sue

named as harassers in her diary are indicted on those stolen credit card charges. Okay, how does that connect? Let's find out right now, right now. The ringleader, he's described in court as the initiator at Northwest was a dude named Joseph. In 1989, before her murder, obviously, Sue had filed a complaint and got him fired for six months, which doesn't seem like a punishment. Well, that's not being fired. If he came back to the job after six months, he was suspended. That's exactly right. Just like your mug says. So he retaliated with some of the worst harassment against her. He's fired again when the subpoenas are handed down in the credit card theft cases in August 1992. And reportedly told people he thought, listen, all of this is alleged. Can I

just blanket that now? Oh, I thought you were saying that's what he said. Guys, this is alleged. No, everything I'm saying about him, he hasn't been charged with any crimes. Okay. Well, the credit card. That's important. Yeah, that's important. But he was the credit card stuff was real. Yes. Okay. That's all real. But the here we go. Okay. He told people he thought Sue was a snitch who ratted them out to the authorities. So he thought she was the snitch for the credit card shit. Oh, in reality, she actually had no involvement in this whole thing and had never been asked to assist the investigation. But of course, they didn't know that or didn't believe that. So over the next few years, 30, well, 37 people, including 10 Northwest baggage

handlers are convicted on federal charges of participating in the stolen credit card ring. So 10 of those people that Sue was being harassed by are fucking part of this credit card ring that they think she's fucking snitching on and then gets murdered. Okay. Another baggage handler mentioned in Sue's diary is Robert who she had a brief affair with. And after that affair ended, Robert started getting super hostile towards Sue and threatening her new boyfriend and Sue. And when the subpoenas are handed down for the credit card theft, he gets the fuck out of there and transfers to an airport out of state. And then he just gets probation because he testifies he got a three year prison sentence for that credit card bullshit. Okay. So as for the night of Sue's

murder, they're like, maybe this is connected, the authorities think. So this dude, Robert is questioned about his whereabouts that night. And he's like, yo, I was at that out of state airport that I work at working at the airport. And I had no contact, didn't talk to him at all. But years later, he's indicted on three counts of perjury and two counts of obstruction of justice after they found out that they find his time cards and proof and phone records and prove that he's not working that night. And another point is before she left for the sandwich run around 1am, Sue had received a telephone call at work from an unidentified person who wanted to meet her supposedly. So like someone luring her out. Right. So Robert is convicted of obstruction of justice

for lying to a federal grand jury that was investigating Sue's death. He admitted he lied to his whereabouts the weekend of her death, and he was sentenced to 18 months in prison. And then of course, a federal appeals court ruling in Rob's case reveals that in 1998, the investigators had named Joe as a possible suspect in Sue's murder. And evidence cited showing that he had blamed Sue for the disciplinary action against him years earlier. He had vandalized her car. All of this is allegedly vowed to get revenge against her and accused her of being a snitch in the credit card investigation. So all these fucking things. But since then, there has been no further action in Sue's case. Oh, yeah, it's fucking cold still and still open.

Sue's mother, Marlene is tenacious as fuck, just like her daughter. And she's never back down in the fight. She's like up at front and center fighting for her daughter's justice. And she says she definitely thinks somebody set her daughter up and thinks that the anonymous call the night of her murder was from someone her daughter trusted, who lured her from the airport to kill her. And since Sue's murder, Marlene, every single year on the anniversary of Sue's murder, Marlene holds a vigil at Logan Airport. And you see her, she's carrying a sign with Sue's photo on it reminding people that this woman who worked here and was last seen here, was murdered and advertising a $250,000 reward for information leading to the killer's arrest.

Wow. And I watched a video about it and she says, quote, I'm very, she says I'm very, I'm a very healthy woman. She's getting older. She says I'm a very healthy woman and I'm not going away. You're going to look over your shoulder until the day that I go, but I will get you and I will get justice for my Susan. And then so here's a footnote. If you want to cry. Remember, Sue would want it to be a cartoonist and had it been a huge fan of Charles Schultz. Charles Schultz. He drew a Snoopy, especially for her, that adorns her gravestone. No. He drew it for her to get on her gravestone. So if you look it up, you can see it because she was such a huge fan of his. That's awful. Sorry. No, I mean, but that's that. I mean,

like it was an unsolved murder, unsolved mysteries because people want information still to this day. It's still fucking unsolved. It's one of those ones in the back of my mind that ever, you know, for the past three years that we've done this, I've always thought of it, like I need to do that one someday. So it's not okay. And that's, it's kind of nice that we have this podcast where we can like call attention to these insane cases. Like the one we did last week of calling Pitchfork where it's like, how is this person spending less time in jail than the person's life who he killed, you know, he killed a 15 year old and he's getting less than that time that she was alive in jail. So it's nice to call attention to these fucking

insane cases where the suspects are still alive. There's still time to fucking prosecute them. There's got to be more info on them. There's got to be people now willing to talk. It's a, it's a new fucking, it's a different era. And so that video of the mom with the sign and talking about the reward, that's still current. Yeah. As of the past like year or two. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. So that's the murder of Sue Taraskowitz. Wow. Yeah. I got this story from friend of the podcast, true crime reporter, Billy Jensen. Like, yeah. And he reminded me of it. And then I remembered, and also we talk about Wikipedia a lot on this podcast. Please don't forget about Murderpedia. Oh my God. Because Murderpedia is more dedicated

and they also need money, five, one, five and $10 at a time. Please support Murderpedia. I feel like I use them just as much. I use them a lot. And they do that thing where it'll just be like seven articles in a row. Yeah. I love it. There's not a ton of like this, this, this, this fact. It's just article after article. Articles and chronological timelines, which helped me a lot. So anyway, I looked this up on Murderpedia to get the details. And one of the first things it listed on there was that this case was featured on the E series, Curse of the Lottery. And then I remembered seeing it. Holy shit. And then with my eyeballs. And then I was like, oh, this is such a sad, fucked up story. I gotta tell Georgia. I didn't know that was a show.

And I don't know this story. And I'm here for it. Okay. Thank you. Your presence is required. Is basically the whole point of this podcast. It's the podcast. We talk to each other. You have to pay attention to me. Yeah, this, I think this show, E, Curse of the Lottery is from a little while ago. I bet. But the story is crazy. So, so basically, on November 15, 2006, 41 year old Abraham Shakespeare was a food delivery driver. Like a truck driver. So I think it was more like for the grocery store type of food. He was making $8 an hour and he had $5 in his wallet. Oh my God. He and his co-worker Michael Ford were headed toward Miami. They stopped at a town star convenience store in Frostproof,

Florida. Sure, where we all go for vacate for summer. For summer. And after we go to the Fox Globe, a Fox Globe casino, we then we head down to Florida to Frostproof to Frostproof. And we get some popsicles that don't have ice on them. So the two truck, they're the, they stopped the truck, they go into the town star convenience to buy drinks and cigarettes. Sure. And when Michael Ford gets out of the truck, I said they get out. But Ford gets out and he asked Shakespeare if he wants a soda. And Shakespeare says, and don't buy me that, get me two lottery tickets. Hell yeah. Hands him that last $5 on his wallet. So I just can picture him saying it and like the Shakespeare

similar queen. Forsooth. There's something like that. The look of the something, you know, that's all I got. The look of the really wide pants. So that week, the Florida Lotto jackpot was $30 million and Abraham Shakespeare fucking won it. All of it? He won $30 million dollars. We said $300 million. No, I said $30 million. I heard $300 million. Did I say penis or did I say $30 million? Holy shit. He fucking wins in Frostproof, Florida. Can you imagine? $30 million. You know, Vincent, I play regularly. You can't win if you don't play. That's exactly right. It's almost like they should use that as their quote. It's almost like

we play regularly. My mom has played every week since I was a kid. My whole family plays. My sisters every time? Yes, because there's, well, she does a couple different systems, but she's always got them stuck on her refrigerator. And it's like, there's one where it's everybody's birthday. My mom is like, yeah, sweet. She'll be like, this number, this number, the year that ended up and all three of your birthday. I mean, because also it's going to be so sweet if that pays off that one time where it's like, so yes, I think that's, I mean, that's the fun of the lottery. Now, the other way to look at it, which is my favorite cray-gants on joke is the lottery is like a tax for stupid people.

But it does go actually in California. I don't know if it goes to fixing the roads. Schools, I meant. Fixing the road on the way to school. That school road that's so bumpy. You know that the kids all learn on, right? They learn math on. Okay. So now he's a lottery winner. Everybody thinks that that's the dream come true. Yeah. But as we learn in the E-Series, the curse of the lottery, it's rarely fucking true. See, this big fucking HGTV show where this fucking dude takes these new lotto winners to their new home, like shows them homes to buy. I'm not explaining this well. Is this real? I swear to God. Stephen, will you look up at the fucking, there's a new show called like you won the lottery. Now here's your new mansion. Yeah.

Buy a mansion with all that fucking lottery winnings. It's called how aspirational and satisfying would it be to watch that show? It's great. This is this. Yep. My lottery dream home. Look at this guy. Say the name of the house. He's fabulous. Oh my gosh. He should be one of this. Is that jacket made of gold? It probably is. He looks like one. He should be one of the fab five of a Queer Eye. Queer Eye. David Bromstad. Love you, David. And so he's just like, this staircase leads to another save. He's fabulous. Wow. But every house is in Las Vegas. And it's like they won and it's a number that you couldn't buy a house for in LA. All still too low. Sorry. No, no. Because see, that's the thing is that everybody's like,

there's been a couple series I think about winning the lottery because then there's some people who they do fine with it. There are probably people who have a little bit of experience with money or at least have learned some lessons. The smart people, you can be anonymous too. Exactly. But when you don't have anything your whole life and then suddenly you get $30 million, it's very easy to mismanage yourself. And to like I did the first time I had a large sum of money paid to me when I first moved to Los Angeles. I got a holding deal. Your first entertainment industry job. That was like stupid money jobs. To me, it was stupid money. Now it was zero money. Wow. When I was like, the rent's on me, everybody. Let's do this

thing. It's cartons of cigarettes for all my friends and fake cigarettes for my other friends. Okay. For your fake friends. So Abraham Shakespeare, the thing about him is he's a really good person. Great. So he immediately is like a party at my house. He buys a new house. Okay. So he does the thing. He has the choice between the one time lump sum cash payment of $17 million. Take that. Or 30 annual payments of 30 million. So a million dollars a year. Take that one. Two or one. Oh, I would pick. Let's see. He clearly fucks up. So I'm going to say what I would pick. I'm going to do the lump sum. Yep. That's exactly right. Okay. Yes. He does it. Now that I, now that we've named our podcast network that I hear myself saying it. I didn't realize they say

it that much. We do. Okay. So he goes lump sum 17 mil. And then here's what he buys. He moves out of his working class neighborhood in Lakeland, Florida, and he buys a $1.1 million house in a gated community in North Lakeland. See, a Florida 1.1 million and there's the income tax thing they don't have, which is why all these professional wrestlers live there. Is that right? Yeah. That's an insane amount of money for a house there, right? I'm sure. Yes. 1.1. Yeah. For sure. The only other things he buys are a Rolex from a pawn shop and a Nissan Altima. Oh my God, I love him. And then he starts lending his friends. He pays for everything. He has people at his house. He lets people stay at his house. He lends money hand over fist. He pays for people's funerals.

He, he, there's one guy just like people are dying around him. He's just like, I got this. I got this, you guys. Yeah. It's not a round of drinks at a bar. Holy shit. There's one guy you were going to say. But one guy owed him a million dollars. What? Like he lent somebody a million dollars. Uh-uh. Yeah. So it was the kind of thing where I'm sure he had a lot of guilt about winning or like having that money. Or didn't want to become a monster to be cut off. Right. So he has this house where basically it's a non-stop party and there's these people all over the place. Well, and after a while, of course, he starts confiding to like his close friends and family members that he is miserable. He was happier before, before he won the lottery and then he

just wants to get away. Um, yeah. So basically April of 2000, of 2007. It's like a year later. Well, yeah, it's, it happened at the end of 2006, November. Oh, so money in it. Holy shit. So it's like, yeah, it's basically five months later. That's a lot of money to spend in a very short amount of time. Yes. Um, he in four months later, Michael Ford, the guy that was with him the day he bought that winning a lot of your ticket, tells him he wants at least a million dollars. But of course, Abraham Shakespeare is like, yeah, no, I'm not giving you a million dollars because you were there. And he goes, fine, I'll sue you. And he takes him to court claiming that Abraham actually stole those two tickets out of Ford's wallet and that they were his tickets

that were stolen. Yeah. So on October 19th, 2007, they go to court. No. And it takes the jury a little over an hour to rule that Abraham Shakespeare did not steal that winning ticket and that he doesn't owe Michael Ford any money. Sure. But the money at this point is starting to run out as it will paying for funerals. It tends to do that. All that stuff. Yeah. It goes. You spend it and it's gone. Oh, the guy that he's he gave a million dollars to was a known only as big man. There's no. When I meet a guy named big man, I just want to give him money. But I want to bankroll you as a human being. Okay. So in October of 2008, a 40 year old woman named Dee Dee Moore reaches out to Abraham Shakespeare. Now, Abraham Shakespeare is basically like locked himself

in his mansion. He like he's had to kick out all these people. His generosity has gotten him nothing but more problems. Well, then this woman named Dee Dee Moore shows up says that she's writing a book about how people have been taking advantage of him as a lottery winner. So he starts telling his story. And she must have been an amazing psychopath because within she convinces him to let her be his financial advisor. No. And within three months, she the ownership of Abraham Shakespeare's home had been transferred to a company called American Medical Professionals. Fake. Right. And that turns out that's Dee Dee Moore's company. Shit. So she basically convinces him that he won't have to pay taxes if he puts his money into an LLC. And it's called Abraham

Shakespeare LLC. So it's like it's basically she starts a corporation for him. Okay. But it's under her name. Well, no, it's it'd be in the beginning. It's under his name. She says put your money here. You won't have to pay taxes. You won't have to pay child support. You won't have to do she's basically everyone don't try to get out of paying child support, please or taxes. I'm sorry. I meant I meant taxes or child. Well, you're like the government. Sorry. You're you're about kids first. But all of the it's like especially when you're up in this amount of money, they're paying attention to every dime you spend. And eventually she moves into his house. The title of his house is signed over to her. Nope. So yeah. So we're having a problem. Well, it's not signed over to her though.

It's signed over to American Medical Professionals. They're professionals. Doctors everywhere. Okay. So Abraham Shakespeare is last seen in the Lakeland area in April of 2009. And later, the police find that he last used his cell phone on April 6, 2009. But even though no one knows where he is and he disappeared and he's not at home, his family is getting texts from him saying that he's just laying low. Don't worry about me. Well, they think that's weird, because Abraham never learned to read or write. He dropped out of school like in junior high. And so they're like, maybe he's getting someone to do like they're just like he'd never text before. So then suddenly they're like, yeah, they're, they're just kind of like something's off because he just is gone.

I was thinking about how you should go out more because if people get, if someone kills you and starts writing, Hey, I'm just going to stay home tonight texts to people. They'll believe it. Oh, yeah. They won't be like, thanks for laying that out in black and white. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. No, I've actually made that joke before that in every true crime show they go, I knew something was wrong because that night she didn't call me back. Or I can tell she was home and she didn't answer the door. It's so unlike her where I'm like, Oh my God, I can just picture my dad going, yeah, I simply don't hear from her for weeks at a time. I text her, she doesn't respond. I'm super funny, but she won't say anything to me. She can't explain her whereabouts.

So we didn't know anything was amiss. And I'm laying in a ditch like, God damn it, if I was only I should have been an extrovert. Why am I a hermit? I deserve what I'm getting. Okay, so that November, Abraham's cousin files a missing person's report because he's like, okay, it's been long enough. He would have either come back connected, made an actual phone call or whatever. He explained to the police, they were hoping that he had gone to the Caribbean. Because he had been saying he wanted to do that basically since he won the money. Yeah, he's like, fuck, he wanted to fuck off. Yeah. And because they were getting those texts, it was almost that thing of like, well, this is weird, but at the same time, at least we're

hearing from him. Yeah. So best case scenario. But then his cousin said they were just like, no, something's right. So on November 12, 2009, detectives go interview DD Moore because they find that she's right in the center of all of his business. She's everything signed over to her. She's living in his house. They're like, All right, we're going to have a chat with you. She explains to them that she started the corporate account for him, and that she was paying him in cash out of that account basically, because she was better at business and she was going to be the one she was this financial manager. Look, I have a company that has a name professional in it.

That's how you can tell. It's me, the one who should be in charge of your money because of the name of the thing I made up. She denies having anything to do with his disappearance, but she explains she took over his assets, which at the time were like $3.5 million plus the mansion, plus all the money people owed him, which counted, because it was their plan of getting people away from him, asking him for money. Right. He's like, I don't even have control over it. Yeah. I put DD in charge. I met her three months ago. She also claimed that she set things up the way she did because Shakespeare didn't want to pay child support, and because he had a drug problem and he would just use the money for drugs. That's why she took all of his stuff and

didn't pay him. All the money goes into her, that account, and then doesn't go back out. She sets up Abraham, Shakespeare, LLC, and then takes his name off, and it's her account now. And then when the cops are like, so anyway, let's walk this day. And then she's like, yeah, no, he wanted, that's what he wanted. He wanted me to have everything. That leopard print couch I bought, that's over there. He supported me in all of my choices. So this is where around this time is where our friends over at Websluths come in to the mix. You guys. And this is the Billy Jensen element because he's all about that. It's all the twists and turns. I forgot about Billy Jensen. Oh my God. So on the Websluths board, somebody posts a news article about a missing

Florida man who named Abraham Shakespeare, who had won $30 million in the lottery, blew through most of the money and now had disappeared. So the citizen detectives, of course, dig in. And they see that he's hired DD Moore as the financial advisor, so then they start going into her financial and property records and posting them on the site, noting that her bank account reflects that she has come into a lot of money recently. How do you find that? It's that shit they do that they're so good at. Like this is their jam. I hopefully only use our powers for good and not evil. Just want to put that out there. Yeah, please. Let's everybody stay above board. Stay off the dark web. Come on. Nothing good that can come out of it. Please. You don't need

to buy that arm. You don't need more photos of feet. You can get those anywhere. Go to wikifeat.com. Google my name in there. Okay, so February 21, 2009, they find DD Moore has bought a 2008 corvette for her boyfriend for $70,000. Jesus. She paid with a cashier's check from her American medical professionals business account. It's a month off. Yeah, right. A month later. It's a tax break. A month later, she buys a 2009 Hummer for $90,000. Holy, a Hummer is more than a corvette? Yeah, girl. Yeah. I don't know anything about cars. $20,000 more. Once you get over $2,000, that's the most I've ever paid for a car at once is $1,600. I think because Hummers are like, you can shoot an AK-47 into the side of them and be fine. They're talking to endazers who are like,

yeah, we need to keep safe. Mad Max shit. Whereas in a corvette, you're like, oh, the sun roofs off. I've been killed. Okay. So this is amazing. And she buys a house. It's all the stuff and they're just like, well, this is interesting because here she is and here's all her shit and his money's gone. So once all these posts start going up, somebody logs onto Webslus and begins to defend Didi Moore, offering up even more incriminating evidence against her as they're trying to defend her. No. So of course, our citizen detectives track the IP address of the defender down. Of course they do. And lo and behold, it's Didi Moore. It's so stupid what people think that people can't get away. Like, you can't get away with this shit, dude. No. Don't fucking

try. Don't try it. So dumb. And also it's that thing of, which I think especially in the internet age, we find more and more is people, you don't know what you don't know. Yeah. So you're going on to Webslus like, I got this. I changed my IP address. Well, they can see who bought that IP address and it still leads back to you. Didi, unless you work at MIT in the computer lab, I wouldn't go up against the website. Let's not. Let's not. Okay. So the citizen detectives send all of this to the police, obviously, a couple days after Christmas of this year. This year? No, sorry, of that year. Great. Of this year, I was talking about 10 minutes ago. Remember when you told the whole story,

that current story? Yes, that was 12 years old. I'll never forget it. The bags of leaves in the living room. I was like, yeah, we were both in the city, but I'm the one that found this brand new breaking story. They're like, Karen, we hate to inform you. You fucking idiot. Okay. A couple days after Christmas, 2009. Got it. Didi Moore takes Abraham Shakespeare's mother, Elizabeth Walker, out to eat. This is fucking devious shit. His mommy? Yes, his mommy. And during the meal, she receives a phone call from someone who says, it's me, Abraham Shakespeare just calling to say I'm fine. So then she's like, oh, he called me. Everything's okay. The next day, the detectives interview Abraham Shakespeare's friend Gregory Smith,

who it turned out was already an informant. Yeah. I mean, he had a record and he was already kind of there. And he, they basically get out of him that he was paid by Didi Moore to impersonate Abraham and call his mother to say he's fine. So since he's already an informant, they're like, all right, you did that. You won't, you won't get in trouble if you now wear a wire and we need to get this woman and we need to get some good information from her. He's like, I want to help. He was my friend. He loaned, he loaned. Was this guy a big man? Gregory Smith. He wasn't big man, but he did loan him 60 grand. Holy shit. So he said, like, I've been a part of it, but I realized I needed to do the right thing and help. So,

so basically, they say you need to get close to her and get good information. And thank god, they did because a month later, Didi Moore asks Gregory Smith, if he knows anyone who'd admit to law enforcement, they were responsible for killing Abraham Shakespeare for money. And Gregory Smith's like, yeah, I do. Let me get back to you. Hundreds and hundreds of people, hundreds and thousands of hundreds of thousands. Because she was like, is there somebody that's like a prisoner that'll just do this? Right. It'll take the fall. I'll pay that. I'll give their family money. Yeah. You know, right. So on January 21, 2010, an officer named Mike Smith goes undercover as a guy who will admit to the murder for money. Fun. AKA the dumbest man in

the world. Not the actual officer. That's someone who would do that. Exactly. You're not calling Mike. I'm not calling officer Mike Smith of the Lake Wales, Florida police department, the dumbest man in the world. Never would I do that. You're calling someone who would, whatever. Yes. We get it. Do we get it? Don't we? So Didi agrees to pay him 50 grand to confess to law enforcement that he is responsible. And Mike Smith undercover tells Didi, I'll do this if you just tell me where you put his body. Yeah. At that moment that she didn't go, huh. Yeah. Why do you need to know that as a prisoner? I wonder. Well, it's that it's the um, it's the cocky confidence of I'll never get caught. So I never, I'm never suspicious. Yeah.

Because I'm so fucking cocky. I'm masterminding this. Yeah. I'm a true psychopath. I'm not gonna get caught for this shit. I'm a mastermind. I'm the smartest person on the planet. Look. So January 25th, Didi meets back up with Gregory Smith, who's working with undercover cop Mike Smith. And she shows him the concrete slab in the backyard of her ex-boyfriend's house, and she says he's buried underneath there. Oh, shit. She also gives Gregory Smith the 38 Smith and Wesson, which she used to kill him. She did it. Yeah. I guess spoiler alert. So immediately the cops go to that location. They excavate that concrete slab and they find underneath they find Abraham Shakespeare. The body of Abraham Shakespeare is buried underneath his concrete slab.

He's been shot twice. Fucking concrete slabs, man. It's such a dumb idea. So what happens is they get her, Didi Moore's ex-boyfriend. Yeah. They interview him and he says that Didi called him during the first two weeks of April, asking to dig a hole in the yard. As you do. As one would. Because she needs to bury concrete and trash in it. Uh-huh. He digs the hole and he leaves. Oh, he had no idea. He had no idea. I thought it was gonna be a body in it. She calls him back two hours later to fill the hole back in. And he tells police because it was nighttime. He didn't see what was in it. So he just filled it in and walked away to the end. Sounds about right. Yeah. Sounds on the level. So on February 2nd, 2010, Didi Moore is arrested

and the judge sets her bond at a million dollars. And then she's charged with first degree murder. She pleads not guilty. And December 10th, 2012 is when the trial starts. And at the beginning of the trial, the judge Emmett battles. Oh, my God. Amazing. Can you see him? To me, he looks like Colonel Sanders. To me, he's a Civil War reenactor. Yes. For sure. So we got mutton chops on all sides of the head. During the week, it's like having a mullet. It's like, and you're in a business suit. Yeah. But you have mutton chops and you're, I don't know where I'm going with this. It's just something. You were seeing a vision in your head of Emmett battles and you were talking through it. I like it. He tells the jury, you can't convict her on a lesser charge.

Don't do it. Don't do it. So they start the trial. Didi's attorney tells the jury that she was just trying to help protect Abraham Shakespeare and his assets from a pending child support case when in the middle of all that, he was killed by drug dealers who no one's looking for because they're attacking her. Unfortunately, detectives had found CCTV footage of her buying plastic sheeting and duct tape. I don't care what you're actually doing that's on the level. Don't ever buy that shit. No, you know, leave your duffel bags at home. Yeah. Yeah. Like all of it. Duck, you certainly can't do it in combination. No. Zip ties, duct tape. Don't. You know, we have zip ties all over the house and it's making me

really uncomfortable because we use them for the live show banner. Oh, I'm probably going to have to call the cops. I wish you would. I don't know why anyone hasn't yet. Quickly. Okay. So that's a bunch of bullshit. Everyone knows it immediately. Then they're just like, here's her doing all this crazy shit. And also, here's a detailed record of the finances and where it went and how it went there. And are you stupid? And thanks, Websluths. And thanks, Websluths. At one point, this is just a side fun fact. At one point, Dee Dee Moore is briefly banned from the courtroom over concerns that she may have threatened jurors. Oh, dear. Dee Dee. Dee Dee, don't double down at this point, please. She didn't give a shit. But she came back a short time later for closing her. She's

like, sorry, sorry, sorry, guys, I won't kill your family. Pinky swear. The jury deliberates for three hours before Dee Dee Moore is found guilty of first degree murder. She's sentenced to mandatory mandatory life without parole. Yes. That that's that verdict you're always looking for. And following the verdict, the judge calls Dee Dee quote, the most manipulative person he's ever seen. And he describes her as quote, cold, calculating and cruel. That is the story of the murder of Abraham Shakespeare. And watch that curse of the lottery because it's really, it actually goes into much more about how giving and kind he was and how except for to his kids for child support. Well, we don't know. Do we? We don't know the details of it because actually, $5,000 was paid to Abraham's

ex-wife in the name of his child. Okay, so we don't know. We don't know. We don't know. I'm not judging. You're about to spill coffee on Steven's. Let's not take what Dee Dee tried to say. I actually also just love the name Dee Dee as a as a villain from Florida. Well, it's fucking Dee Dee Blanchard, too. That's right. Dee Dee's are bad news, which is one of Dottie's nicknames. Yeah, she's a good girl. She does her best. She does. Tries very hard. Twist and turns, right? That goes to show you take the month, take the yearly payouts. Take that yearly payout and make your own corporation disappear. I love also the idea of just naming your corporation like Karen Kilgarov LLC. And it was like, you can make up anything. Yeah. Or like, just put the word professional

in it. Just how about professional? Professional professionals. Inc. Oh, that's good. Why don't we name our podcast network professional professionals? We'll call some people. Shit, man. Twist and turns, right? That's a good one. What's your fucking hooray for this week? Hundreds and thousands. Australian cookies of all kinds. Let me think. Actually, let me think. You have one? Yeah, you want me to do mine? I would love you to do yours. Well, I have two, but they're both the media ones that we like. First of all, my friend told me to listen to a podcast. It's from Wondery and it's called Gladiator. Oh, why is it listening to that? Are you listening to it? I am. Is it because I told you to? No. God damn it. It is, it's called Gladiator and it's about Aaron

Hernandez who was one of the New England Patriots and he ended up going to jail for murder. Well, just listen to it because I was just going to spoil the hell out of it. But it's a really, really beautifully done podcast at Wondery by a team of people and here's the thing and maybe newspapers are onto this already, but if they're not, please tell them. This is the way that newspapers can come back because like all those like from the Australian, the Teacher's Pet series, now you've got this one that's out of the Boston Globe. There's the Bear Brook podcast that I love that is from a newspaper too. Is it? Yeah, this one is the Boston Globe, the Spotlight Department, which is the one that did the big expose on The Molesting Priest. Oh, I listened. There's a

podcast about that. No, no, that's something different. Okay. So, so basically, it's the Spotlight Department where it's the investigative department, but now they're fucking making podcasts. Can we get Skip Hollinsworth on this fucking beat, ma'am? Or Skip Hollinsworth from Texas Monthly? Maybe, but my thing is that kind of investigative journalism, it transfers directly to podcasting. Totally. That's, it's beautiful. And the person that hosted, I'm sorry, I don't know his name off hand, but he is a reporter from the Boston Globe that is basically hosting his own research. So good. And it's a beautifully done thing. There's a whole team of people. It's great. Listen, there are think pieces everywhere, right? And then the other one is just,

it was recommended to me on Twitter about two weeks ago. It's a Netflix series called Dairy Girls. Oh, yeah. And it's about a group of high school girls in Belfast in the 90s, and it's fucking hilarious and beautifully done. And I love it so much. And please watch it if you're in the mood for something fun. Okay. I'm gonna do it. Do it. Let's see. Oh, so you know I told you back when we recorded in December about the hashtag that I had gotten from Jen Gotch that I stole her idea of showing your meds in your hand. And then hashtag it, someone had suggested my favorite meds. And I was like, this is great. And then people started that stolen actually from us. You're like, no, you're taking Jen Gosh's thing. I'm like, now

it's my thing. Well, my favorite meds. She put the meds in and I was like, that's a great idea. And I did it. And I said, I got it from her. And then let's hashtag it and show her fucking meds off. And so people have been doing that. And I've been reading all these beautiful like stories of becoming, you know, realizing you need help and all this stuff. And it made me realize that my meds aren't working the way like reading all these people, like their accounts of how much it's helped them makes me realize my shit's not helping me. So I went back to my psychiatrist and I'm changing medications. It's going to take months. It's like a fucking long process. But I'm doing that. And it's, it's so funny that I was like, I copied Jen and was like,

this is a thing. And then I'm like, Oh, I like, I got something out of it too. Yeah. And that's a big thing to get out of it. Yeah. That's huge. Yeah. Everyone was like, my life has changed. I do this, I do that. And I'm like, I still feel pretty fucking shitty. Yeah. And I thought it was just like, that's what I get. And it's not. Well, and also, I think so much has been going on in your life that this it's normal to feel stressed. It's normal to feel scared. It's normal to be overwhelmed. Right. That then you can't there you don't you're you don't have a normal stasis or whatever they would call that anymore. How can you tell the thing of like, well, my, my baseline of everything is fine is not other people's baselines of everything is good. So it's like, yes, you're

doing much better and you feel better than you wouldn't if you wouldn't be on meds. But that doesn't mean that that's where you need to settle. Yes. You know, it's like you can you can strive for more than that. So I'm striving for Zoloft to make better than effects or that's awesome. Yeah. Are you going to get the zaps if you go off effects? That's why it's taking a very long time to do it. You have to slowly so slowly. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, well, good though. Yeah, great. Fuck it. Great. And also great that that's something like that. You don't have to feel weird about any of this shit anymore. Never. There's no there's no need. It's so funny that you don't I didn't realize how many people were ashamed of it or didn't talk about it or it's like so natural to

me that I didn't even think to talk about it. Right. Because it's normal. Yeah, because who cares? It gives a shit. Make a fucking strive for your best. And also I remember one time saying something out loud about my therapist at it at my dad's house and my cousin who was there was like, what? I mean, the reaction you had was so weird. And instead of like being offended or ashamed or anything, I just remember sitting there going, oh, no, poor thing. Well, like it's not 1945. No. Like you don't as scary as the idea of it might be to you. Don't negate people or like totally don't try to make people feel bad who are trying to make themselves feel better. Showing you're I just in the beginning felt weird about being like, oh, well,

mine and Vince's therapist because it to me, you know, in the beginning, it was like, oh, I'm telling people that we have a bad relationship, which is the opposite. We're going so that we have a better relationship. Right. And starting from a good point, instead of starting from the fucking bottom, everybody has to learn how to communicate. Yeah, that's just how it is. We've it's looking back at how we communicated, which was just to not make the other person feel bad. So we never said what we wanted. We just don't want to hurt each other. Ew. It just didn't work. So that's, that's horrible. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, when I, when I, now I don't give a shit, I say it all the time, like our therapist just didn't normalize it. Well, and also, I think those the standards

by which people judge things are so stupid, like what people post on Facebook about their family, which is like, yeah, that there's no bigger red flag than when people are consistently like, we're having the best and we love each other. And where it's like, why, why are you doing that? Where it's like, it doesn't, that doesn't make it happen. We know your baby just had an explosive diarrhea out of its diaper. That's the fucking reality. The reality is half the time you hate the person that you're married to. Oh no. Sorry. I mean, like the reality is life is hard. Yeah. You fuck up, they fuck up, and then you fix it. It's all about fixing it and moving on and getting stronger because of the fix. Totally. Totally. I didn't make that up. That's why you and I go to

therapy together. Exactly. No, seriously, because we, we, as much as we get along, we are absolutely opposite people. Our therapist says we are the perfect triggers for each other. Yeah, we absolutely are. Yeah. And there are things that like, if we didn't have a person, it's not even like learning to go like, you need to be nice or you need to do this. It's like, the bigger lesson of your intent is not the same thing as the impact what you do has. And that lesson is humongous. And your reaction is coming from a place of fight or flight, not from conversation or from working shit out because it or the present because it's triggering. Yes. If you're triggered, you're in like, you're in like 20 years ago, you're doing a totally different thing.

And you need help. We all need help with relationships. Yeah. Yeah. They're fucking hard, man. I mean, I'm the extra because I'm divorced. So please listen to everything I said. Did you guys go to therapy ever? Together? I can't talk about it. Great. She signed the non-disclosure agreement. She got child, $5,000 in child support and peace the fuck out of it. And he buried in my backyard. Stop it. I always wondered what that concrete slab was. No, that's decorative. You told me you're putting your trash in there and I came over one night and filled it with concrete. This is my concrete slab that I have concrete buried under me. I couldn't see anything. Yeah. Because I only invite people in the dark. Damn it. Damn it. I feel had. Listen, I understand.

We'll talk about it in therapy. So I feel really angry at Georgia because she feels sad. I'm very a body and I just feel like it's triggering. But was it a body or was it concrete? I'll never know. Dump your concrete under this concrete slab is what Didi tried to tell. Honey, please. This is where I dump my concrete. Lady. Thanks for listening. Thanks to Stephen Ray Morris for so many edits at fucking 11 o'clock at night, the night before we're posting. Stephen. Thank you. Stephen, do you know we love you? We love you, Stephen. I think we need to start thanking Stephen. I think because people do that at the end of podcasts. This has been brought to you like edited by so and so and brought to you by the music by Karen Kilgera.

Okay, do it. Do it. I just did it. Music by Karen Kilgera special thanks to Stephen Ray Morris for the editing and shit for the amount of editing that doesn't even make sense or like can you please put that back together and we've just had to do some fixes. Look, listen, stay sexy and don't get murdered. Elvis, you want a cookie? Hey, I'm Arisha and I'm Brooke and we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent

remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app.