My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 158 - Burn Day

Episode Date: January 31, 2019

Karen and Georgia cover the 3 Billboards murder of Kathy Page and the San Ysidro McDonald's massacre.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. This is all I could manage, and it was because it's going to make my life easier on the road. Yeah, but now I fucking hate the way my hair looks, and I wish I hadn't done it.

Of course, but you know why, because it's permanent and you're trapped in it, but it looks super cute. Thank you. It's an interesting, also, counter thing to your, like, when you have that cute dress on today, but you have that hair, it's cool. It's doing the job you wanted it to do. Okay. But I'm sure it's like getting a perm, or like, what the fuck?

Yeah. It doesn't, like, Vince keeps, obviously, not divorcing you. Vince keeps, obviously, not saying something, but here's the thing, yes, but that's also the thing of guys are scared, because if he knows you don't like it a little bit, he's afraid to walk that line and go off into the forest of, I said the one thing, and now she's going crazy. Or like it too much, and you're like, well, what do you mean you like it like this? Yes.

There's a lot of ways to. He just keeps saying, it's a different look. God bless him. It's a different look. Oh, God bless him. Is that recorded? Hello. Hello.

And welcome to my favorite murder. Guys, we're back in reality again. Back to life. This is reality, right? Back to reality. Back. I feel like this office could be a, like, portal. We could be dead.

Let's hope we're not. Guys, we have so much to do tomorrow morning. I feel like a businesswoman this week, and which kind of is fun. I feel like that's what, when I was a kid, I was like, Barbie's a businesswoman. Yeah. You know? And now I'm Barbie with my stupid Brazilian blowout that I hate. Describe your hair to people.

To me, it's just so basic, bitch. It's like somewhere between basic fucking bitch and like a heavy metal rocker. Hello. Remember when like the heavy metal rockers would have like, like, what's his name? Lita Ford? Yeah. But I'm talking about a dude. Oh.

Yeah. I guess Lita Ford. Or like, um, like guns and roses. Yeah. Oh, Axl Rose. Yeah. It's just so stick straight that I feel weird and I look more like Liza Minnelli than I ever have.

I feel like it's just a lot of face for me. I think I like, I need a balloon of hair around my face to frame it. And instead this is so flat that it's just like, here's your face. Yeah. Uh, that's, I empathize. I have cut my bangs in a way where people had no choice to stare my big fat fucking face. It's a terrible feeling to feel exposed to feel like you've painted yourself and do a style corner.

It does not look like that. It's super cute. It's also very different for you. Yes. Because you're usually doing like a half finger wave bob number with a this and a that. Yeah. A little bit of back comb. And every time I look over at you, it looks like you're about to go like with an electric

guitar. I fucking love it because then you're also wearing like a little cocktail dress. So it's a fun, I think if you would fold in a combat boot with those cocktail dress number, you could really get a my 20s look going that would be very satisfying. How about if I paint a fucking lightning bolt across my face? Okay. Are you with me? Just separate from the air.

Yeah. How about you start doing that? How about I get a tattoo? Oh, please. Please. Let's get into phase tats. Quickly. Please.

Immediately. I'm going to go a little mustache right over my actual mustache. What have you got? You know how finger mustaches are really popular for a while where you have like a little secret thing? What if you got a finger tattooed over where your mustache is? Some weird fat finger on your upper lip to be like, look, remember the mid 2000s? All right.

That becomes trendy. Oh, let's, let's start that. Let's start it. Let's start it. Let's get off. What do you, do you have anything? Yeah. Okay.

Great. I have pressing information from weeks ago, of course, I would say this is my headline. I said the Netflix series, Dairy Girls, takes place in Belfast. Okay. The whole reason it's called Dairy Girls is because it takes place in London Dairy, which as many very patient Irish and Northern Irish murdering us have let me know, aren't really even that close to each other. Great.

I think. How are you supposed to know that without looking at a map? Look, I've looked at these maps. Yes. I've even been to this part of Ireland, but I think Northern Ireland, I say Belfast and it's over. I didn't even really realize there were other cities to talk about. Even though I'd watched the series, saw this little sign that said, welcome to London Dairy

or whatever the hell it is. There's a bunch of identifiers. Like you know why it's called Dairy Girls. There's a contingency, I think that is after you, coming after you, and from Ireland, and we love it. As well as every, from inside of your own head even. That's where they're getting me the worst. That's a rough one there.

It's very true. So apologize. I mean, apologies to yourself. You guys go apologize, not me, to the great people over at Dairy Girls, which is, if you haven't seen that series, I watched it because someone recommended it to me on Twitter. Loved it so much. It's so funny. I just adore it.

And then it ends beautifully and I hear there's going to be a second season. So now we'll all know exactly where it's coming from and be so much more... We'll know where we are on the map. Yes. It'll be great. We'll take a pin and we'll pin it on the map. I'm going to have Steven drop a pin into London Dairy. You know what we should do with this wall of the office, this gray, it's kind of depressing.

It looks like an asylum wall. Have a map of all the places we made mistakes. Sure. Or are going to make mistakes. Yes, that's right. It'll be the solar system on one side. Speaking of Netflix, so we got a lot of like asks, like, did you guys watch the Ted Bundy documentary?

Oh, right, right. So I was like, I better watch the Ted Bundy documentary. I watched two episodes and I was like, why am I so angry and not enjoying this? And I usually am interested in Ted Bundy shit. And I realized it's because I have to hear his fucking voice. And that's the point of the show is to hear him talk to a reporter. And I fucking hate him so much. And I don't want, he's already, he's said what he's going to say by murdering a bunch

of women. That was his side of the story. That's right. He's a fucking megalomaniac. He's a fucking known liar, and it's not diabolical. He's a little pussy who got fucking intimidated by women and wanted to be famous on the only way he could do it was by killing women because he's so into it. Like, why are we listening to him and his side of the story?

I'll tell you, my theory is, because same with me, I don't want to watch it because I don't like watching killers talk about their craft and all that bullshit that elevates the, it's the actor inside the actor studios for fucking murders. Exactly right. And, but I think that was that thing at the time they went, oh my God, we don't know what this is. We have to get this off. We have to get it.

Look how pretty he is too. Right. Well, it's that thing of people fall for this so much. If you're good looking, that means you're good. Right. There, it's this, it's the most basic mistake human beings make. We all do it. You get, you give credit to good looking people.

You think they're good people. You think tall men are great leaders. If you're nice. Whatever they say. That means you're kind. Yes. You, it means that you have no agenda and you're just being cool. There's all these ways that we want things to be that simple.

So I, I understand recording Ted Bundy to go, look at this monster in this shell of the, he almost looks like a British lit professor. He's so like patches on the elbows and look, I just want to talk about this. That's stupid fucking smirk. I mean, yeah. Go on. Just for me, that's, it's for other people to look at. I don't want to hear him because he's not a truthful person.

You're not going to get anything from it, aside from being massively creeped out. And what I like is Billy Jensen kind of in the wake of that and the trailer coming out for the Zac Efron Ted Bundy movie. Billy Jensen is fucking putting his mouth where his money goes. He, he is, he has created a thread of the Ted Bundy victims talking about each one of them individually. I retweeted it on the, my favorite murder Twitter feed and you can find it. I'm sure most people follow Billy Jensen.

He also, I just, I just saw this. He also just posted that Bundy confessed to murdering eight other women in, in all these different cities. Maybe he said, maybe it's bullshit, but to be medical examiners in those states, if you have female remains from the air that you don't have funds to process, direct message me and I will help pay for the extraction and familial search to give them back their names. Yes.

Billy, we love you. Billy, what, tell us how to help you. Look, listen, you're going to have a podcast on our network and we love you. And that's why. Was that an Easter egg teaser? Easter egg teaser. It's not even a tea. It's like the whole thing.

But so, and I also wanted to say that I'm really looking forward to friend of the podcast Celine Beth Calderon. She's doing a documentary called Theodore where she just interviewed, they interview people who experienced him and survived the survivors and all this shit, which I'm really like, I like that part. It's interesting to me. Yes. Because that's what, that's where you're going to get a real story is the person, Ann

Ruhl style, the person who sat next to him, we went to dinner the other night. And my friend, Denise had just read a stranger beside me and she's so mad at Ann Ruhl. She's so mad at Ann Ruhl for falling for Ted Biden. But I was like, but that's how good he was. That's how evil it is and whatever. That's why it's so amazing. I think it's because he was able to fool Ann fucking Ruhl. Ann Ruhl, a ex-policewoman, a fucking investigator, like the whole thing.

But yes, the documentary you're talking about, that was the girl that was in the front row of our show that time, right? We picked her and she came on stage. Remember? Yes. What show is that? Well, I think it was in Texas. If I'm not mistaken.

Or Portland. Salt Lake. Or Salt Lake. Could have been Salt Lake. But the people who lived through it, the people who can sit there and go, here's what it looked like when this lunatic was coming through my window. Those are the only people I want to hear from. Totally.

Or here's, even as I call it, and this, not to fucking totally disparage this documentary, because it's actually really good and interesting. But whenever Ted starts talking, I get angry and pissed off. Like I wrote three pages of fucking scratch of me being, listen, I had some fucking road there, I'll admit it. But yeah, I wrote all this crazy, insane rambling. Go follow Theodore Documentary on Instagram or just look for the Theodore Documentary. I know there's a, it's Theodore the Documentary and I know there's a trailer for it and they're

still making it and I'm really excited for it. I can't wait. Yeah. I can't wait for that to come out. I'm going to do a weird thing real quick. I keep hearing my fucking overalls jangling, so I'm going to undo them. Two a girl. Their home is like, what the fuck is that noise?

What is that? Why are they wearing a small bell? Oh, I do have another thing. So we had the great privilege of doing a live show specifically for TNT's new limited series, I Am the Night, directed by Patty Jenkins. Which right now we're not being paid to say. That's right. This is, this is just talking about it because we lived it.

Directed by Patty Jenkins of Wonder Woman starring Chris Pine and also executive produced by Chris Pine who are ready for Chris Pine. But when, during that live show where we were, at some point in like five years we should release the unedited version of that live show. Absolutely not. No fucking way. We're burning it to the ground. Stephen's going to release it.

I think time capsule wise it could be a good one. I lost my mind personally at the top of that show. I was so stressed out. But I mean it turned out so fun and amazing but it was a little bit crazy. So at one point I said, I was talking about what was happening around the case and I referred to something and I called it espionage. I almost got away with it and then George was like, did you mean to say it's, no, no, no, no.

It was the wrong word. I want you to do that. Well, that's all I ever do. So I think probably was so excited that you did it. Yes. Have at. But I couldn't until somebody on Twitter named at Silly Celia, C-I-L-L-Y-C-I-L-I-A. She tweeted me the day after it came out or the day of it coming out and said, it's the

word you were looking for, subterfuge. And I was like, yes, yes it was. That's amazing. I would have never fucking guessed that. What a great word. Let's all use that in our daily lives. Can you tell me the meaning of it? Which just means like trickery and secrecy and kind of like, you don't know what's going

on because someone's being. Like submarine. Subterfuge. Subterfuge. Subterfuge. I think so. Someone also also wrote in and said, were you looking for the word intrigue, which probably also would have fit.

That's a good one. Why don't we use those words more? We will now. I'm intrigued by the subterfuge of the fact that we don't use those fucking words. Did I use that good or something? Yes, you did. Amazing. And quickly.

And quickly because I was so smart. Well, so thank you. Thank you all for, thank you for that. And also for all the people who came. It was raining so hard in LA that night. It was kind of like cool, romantic-y because we were looking to watch a fucking thing about the Black Dahlio, which is the shows about. It sounds like we are now integrating ads into the podcast.

We are not. But I swear to God, we're not. This is the difficulty of when you start doing stuff like this because it's what we really did, but it's also a commercial. So, you know, look, this is, listen, this is where we are. And this was brought to you by... Jefferson Maze was the actor we interviewed at the end of that live show, who was the greatest.

What? A joy. I mean, just the most interesting person to talk to. Yes. A delight. Support him in all he does. Yeah. He's also in The Ballad of Buster Scruggs.

Oh, right. On Netflix. I haven't seen it. Anyway. What else? How was your day? I spent most of it with you in meetings in an uncomfortable dress. We got to the dentist last night, even.

Well, at the night time. Yeah. You can do that. No, Jody, you can't. Was I tricked? Was it... Is it a home dentist's office? Basement.

Yeah. No. It's an attic. It's an attic's gentle office. Right up. It's in the Sodan House where Dr. Hodel used to live. That's right. Well, that's good.

You got something taken care of. Yeah. It's a new corner and we call it Aaron's. Taking care of business with Tizzy. I bought paper towels. Yes. I'm proud of you. That actually is hard.

Because you can't... You don't want to carry it. No, totally. Yes. Can I tell you what? I didn't even think about telling you this. So I met... I quit the podcast.

I put all our money in my name. And I'm going to Aruba, Jamaica. So the other day, Sunday, I met up with my dad real quick for lunch and he got to talking about the books. I gave him a copy of our book because he's special, pre-order. You can pre-order it. You don't have it. I gave him a copy.

He says, I have some notes. Oh, accuracy notes or just overall? Both. Okay. And I'm going to save the piece of paper he wrote on forever because it's so Marty. It's notes on page this, you wrote that. And it was also clarifying some shit about my life that I wrote about that I didn't know. In the book, he was like...

Because I write about my parents a lot. It was crazy. Wow. Was it a helpful thing? Was it good to hear it? Yeah. Oh my God, yeah. I had this fucking notion for years that was false.

Wow. Yeah. I think that happens a lot. Yeah. It's so hard stark that my dad had notes for my fucking book. I mean, I swear to you. It's too late. If I send my dad, well, yeah, exactly.

But if I send my dad my book, he's going to go, can I get it on the Kindle? Like my is as supportive as my dad is, I can feel it. That's kind of how we are. Yeah. Killgariffs, it's like you have to feel what we're doing. You can't really listen to what we're saying. It's like an ASP thing. Yes.

And having one? Is that right? It's like, yes. It's like, you have to be connected on a different level because there's a couple things going on because of the shame issues. We can't really do things directly. It's always a weird sidebar. So it's like, if I'm really proud of you, I need to insult your sweater.

It's that kind of shit I grew up with where I'm like, hold on. So I think I just realized as we were talking about this, like I think if I handed my dad a book that had my name on the front of it, he would lose it. But that would be, he would have to have that reaction of like, oh, I can't use this. He'd walk us to the other room and yeah, start shopping. And then he would later on, when I wasn't there, he would tell other people how proud he wasn't me. And then my sister would have to loop back third hand because God forbid.

You're dad's really proud of you. God forbid. Yeah. She's mad about it. So there's a little bit of a, there's a little tone to it. You know, dad's real proud of you. Dad's talking about your thing again. It's like, I'm a schoolteacher, but dad's real proud of this book you barfed out.

I'm the person that's doing, that's keeping America's children together for $11 a day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks so much. Thanks, Karen. Thanks. Thanks for you and your friend. My dad did text me, listen, this just sounds like I'm bragging now because my dad is a sensitive person, you know that, but he texted, he cried during the book multiple times and

he said, I think Ray Bradbury would be proud of you. And then I barfed. Oh, right onto the book. Oh, my phone, but he texted it and there was probably an emoji. That's fine. I was saying to my therapist the other day, this, this, um, you know, as much as like things feel crazy, whatever, we talk about this, maybe too much, but, but that also, it feels very vulnerable.

And so there's this kind of like tension that I feel like is getting much better now that we have like, you know, people in place. Yeah, that we've, um, we've, uh, cloned Steven multiple times. Exactly. Now that we've hired a staff, we put a Steven in here and a Steven over there. Steven's no longer the full staff and Vince does this and yeah, okay. We have more support. Yes.

But that feeling of vulnerability is something I've worked my entire life to not experience. Yeah. I may stand up comic. I do it by myself. I don't rely on other people. You're really good at that. In the beginning. When all I, when all I was like, love me and trust me and let's cry together.

Oh, I'm your best friend now. I mean, what an experience, but it's just like, then you just have to go too bad. Yeah. Like too bad. That's the, that's the exchange. We get this fun, cool experience and we have to be the most vulnerable to strip down and fucking works better when you're vulnerable. It's better.

It sucks. It sucks. It's hard. It's, um, yeah. It's like kind of flexing your bicep all day long is what it feels like to me where I'm like, it makes me want to freak out and I just can't once in a while. You can. All right.

Well, yeah. Go, go. We have a merch store at my favorite murder.com. You can buy shirts and lots of cool shit. There's a fan cult at there as well with extra special things. You can join and we're, um, building out the extra special things that the fan cult gets all the time. So, um, you know, don't be mad at us.

You can join now, just know that the future holds many wonderful surprises. Like, for example, since we have, we're, um, we've been paid to mention it twice. The TNT I'm the night live show, it was only available to the fan cult. Right. So shit like that where it's like, well, we have a show, we have to fill it. It's like tickets aren't, it's tickets are free. Let's tell the fan cult about it and so it's stuff like that. Yeah.

Insider stuff. Perks. Listen. Perks. Look. You keep appreciating it. God damn it. It's very vulnerable making.

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What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my new podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton Serial Killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into

the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Um, who's first? Do we, oh, whoa. Oh, no. Oh, Steven's not ready.

No. Oh, they stumbled. Steven. Do we count the I Am The Night order or the San Diego show? Because if we go by I Am The Night, then Georgia, you would be first. Yeah, I want to be first. Because you did George Friedle. Do it.

All right, let me go. Great. Do it. Do it. Do it. We go by that. I was going to say no and then you said that and I'm like, yes. Yeah.

So, why don't you come over here and I need to get it out of my brain or I won't listen to you. Okay, great. Your start. I understand that feeling. Also I just cracked a can of wine. Let's do this before I get shit-faced. Um, get ready.

I have a Kuzy over this can of wine. We watch wrestling. Kuzy. Yeah. So, for all, you know this could be a can of vodka because you can't see the label. That's right. And hey, Smyrnav, why aren't there cans of vodka out there for me? I need a can of vodka.

Let's make that. Great. Merchandising. Fuck. I first heard about this case recently on an episode of one of my favorite shows, Cold Justice. Yes. So fucking good.

What's cold about it? The cases and the weather because they're usually, you know, wearing coats. It's all back east. It's like a double entendre. So this is cold. It's cold cases, essentially. Cold cases and the, um, Steven Blair Nose, do you want a tissue? Oh, sure.

I don't have one. Okay. I have a user. Perfect solution. I have a user. Okay. So Cold Justice is, it's this fucking badass prosecutor named Kelly Siegler. She goes to town, small towns or big towns or whatever that have cold cases.

And they have a case that need help with, she starts it from the very beginning and they try to figure out who fucking cold case that shit. Yeah. So she does it for this one. I've never fucking heard of it, even though there's something about it that you will know. So I'm going to tell you this and then I'm going to get into it. So this is the murder of Kathy Page, but let me start with this and you'll fucking understand. Okay.

So about nearly 30 years ago, this dude is a writer from the UK. He is on a Greyhound road trip across the US to like see the sites, smell things, you know, taste stuff. While traveling through this town called Viter, Texas, it's about a hundred miles from Houston, he spots three billboards off the I-10, three of them read, one reads, Viter police botched up the case, second one reads, waiting for a confession. The third says this could happen to you. And so that writer and then director of course is Martin McDonough, who made last year three

billboards outside of Ebbing, Missouri. He said he couldn't remember where it was that he saw it. He didn't, he assumed it was a woman because it broke his heart and seemed like a mom kind of thing to do. He was incorrect, but it always stuck with him and then he kind of made the characters from there. Okay. So basically this, that was his imagined version and you're about to give us the real.

That's fucking right. Oh shit girl, nice. This is three billboards outside of Viter, Texas. So here's the real story. Very early in the morning, about 430 in the morning on May 14th, 1991, 34 year old Kathy Page was found in her car in the driver's seat and the car is stuck in a ditch. It appears to be a car accident. It's about a hundred miles, no, sorry, a hundred yards from her house that she lives

at with her now estranged husband and two young daughters. I think they're like nine and 12 or so in Viter, Texas. Her body is found at approximately 5 a.m. by, it says a paper boy, but I think it's just like a newspaper delivery service, so it's not as sad as it sounds. It is. Okay. When investigators start to look more closely though, they get there immediately and they're like, this doesn't fucking look right.

This is not a car accident. They're like, this is staged. So basically she is in the driver's seat of her car sitting stick straight up, but it's facedown in a fucking nose down in a ditch. So her feet are planted on the ground, her head is tilted back, the soda that's in the car has not spilled, her purse hasn't even toppled over, so it's clearly fucking staged. The car is barely damaged and they also find a blade of grass on the bottom of her jeans showing that at some point she had been in that grass that was in the ditch.

Oh, right. You know what I mean? And then the autopsy determines that she had been strangled and she also had a broken nose and a black eye. So someone staged this car accident. She also didn't have a seatbelt on and she was sitting up like that. So detective... So that must have been so eerie to find that.

So detective Sergeant Mosley, he becomes suspicious immediately. This is not fucking right. He walks a hundred yards up to her front door and he says that when her estranged husband Steve opens the door, he looks over at the carport and then looks down the road where this is all happening and says that his wife's not home and they told him that she was dead, that she had been strangled and he fucking goes into a fit, starts getting upset. He throws himself on the couch crying and all this shit. But then the detective is like, when I saw his face, he wasn't crying, which I want to

know, do you think it's possible to be crying without tears? Is that just... It's like one of those things where it's like, you know, now we know that your reaction just might be shock or whatever. What do we call it? How we don't judge people now based... Oh yeah, Sid, there's no grief expectation of like what yours... There's no right way to be told how your wife spends strangled to death.

Exactly. Yeah. So I wonder, this is probably fucking medical, we could ask a doctor, tears, like do they always come when you're crying? Now, I am a doctor and I should have told you this about three years ago. Everything I say medically is pretty dead on, but I would say this, as a person who because of the way my eyes are, light blue, any emotion that I feel passes through my face. Like I can't, if I get misty about, if I watch a video, my eyes will turn red and even though

I'm like fine, if I have the feeling, it gets shown. I'm in the opposite. Where you're having it and nothing is happening. And I have to be like, I would cry right now if I weren't on a ton of pharmaceuticals. Well, so I think there are people who are on natural pharmaceuticals, i.e., being sociopaths, where they know what it looks like when someone's upset, and they know to make those noises and sounds. But I think especially when they murdered their wife.

Yes, but I think if you are in shock, you don't try to fake cry. You sit there and don't have a reaction. You don't fake anything. You don't fake anything. I think those people that cry, but there's no tears, which you see a lot these days, is just mimicry and people knowing this is what I'm supposed to do. Now are there people that go, I know what I'm supposed to do and if I don't do that, I know these cops are going to think I'm guilty.

Because I'm in shock and I have no feelings yet. I mean that you should, I would hope to think that if somebody that was as close to you as your wife would be, that if you were told that they were murdered, you would either be in shock and none of that planning would be going through your head. You wouldn't be sitting there going, what does this look like to this person and all that shit. Totally, totally. You would just be having reaction.

I think that like blacking out seems like a norm. Like we were just reading because someone left in my seat back pocket that, thank you very much for the fuck that was. Yes. I mean, Alhugli, who we saw on the plane to Albuquerque recently. That's right. That's very exciting. The coolest motherfucker I've ever seen in my life.

He was the coolest motherfucker and so many people walked by his seat and said something to him. Yes. It was the cutest, coolest thing where you're like, oh yeah, he's a stand-up comic that's been busting his ass for years and years. He's gotten shows, he's been in movies, he's been in cool TV shows, like it was really cool. And then I just, I don't want to out him to TSA, but he, I noticed him first because he

had this really cool hat on like hipster, cool hat and in it was tucked a single fucking strike anywhere match and I was like, A, that's the cool, like that's just so cool. It's so good. B, anytime someone needs a fucking light, I bet you pull that motherfucker online at three, you got through TSA with a fucking strike anywhere match in your hat. But that's when the government was shut down. So I think, you know, we're lucky, we're lucky it was just a strike anywhere match. That's right.

And I just feel like you, I mean, listen, do whatever you want. Where were we? Oh yeah, I was going to say, so the People magazine where the fucking daughter of BTK is like, here's how it happened for me because just her book, her thing was like, when she was told that her dad was a serial killer and BTK, she just started, just blacked out and fainted. I bet. Yeah, that makes sense to me.

Yeah, because how do you take that in, your reality would just crack. Everything. You wouldn't even know where to like, you wouldn't know how to sit down. That's normal for someone who loses a spouse unexpectedly. And that they're actually connected to. But if you're not connected and you need to put on a show, I think that happens a lot. Okay. So we got through that, I don't know.

So the investigator got upset, no tears, but he was quote weeping. And we know a lot of the stuff because there is a trial later, although it's not what you think it is. Okay. So Kathy, let's go back. Hey, guess what? They had been married for 13 years. They had the two daughters, as I said, and Steve then tells authorities that recently

Kathy had told him that she no longer wanted to be married to him and they were planning on separating. He said she wanted to work things out. But of course, her sister, her friends are like, she's wasn't happy for a long time. Steve slept on the couch or she slept in her daughter's room. She had recently got like a job, a real job out of the home for the first time and was going back to school. And so she was 21.

She got married and she's now 34 and she's like finding herself and has friends at work and she's fucking gorgeous too, by the way, that doesn't hurt. And Steve was, according to Kathy's sister, that they wanted to stay together was bullshit. Their marriage was over. Kathy was starting to move on. So two nights before Kathy was found, Steve had moved into a condo on his own or apartment on his own. Okay.

So, but the night of her death, Kathy couldn't find a babysitter. She's calling around. Her sisters couldn't do it. So she called Steve and was like, can you come over and watch the girls? And she told Steve that she was meeting her friend Charlotte in Beaumont, which was like 10 minutes away, for drinks. And she left around 11.15 that night. But the autopsy shows that Kathy had had sex that night and then the authorities learned

shortly before her death, she had sex and then the authorities learned that she had not gone to meet Charlotte, in fact. She, Charlotte admitted that she had agreed to cover for Kathy by saying that, Charlotte, don't pick up the phone. I'm telling Steve I'm going out with you. So if you answer the phone, he'll know I'm not out with you. And the reason is because Kathy was actually going to meet a new dude that she was dating who was staying at a hotel in Beaumont.

So around 2 a.m. Charlotte, her friend, is fucking fast asleep. Her phone rings. She picks it up. And she's like, just let's remember too, it's like from a time of not having cell phones. Your phone is blaring in the middle of the night. This poor woman like in cold justice, she talks and she fucking obviously blames herself for this whole thing. Oh no.

It's so sad. Answers it immediately, here's a hang up and is like, oh fuck, I just outed my friend. It's later revealed that on the piece of paper or on the phone book where Charlotte's phone number is, right underneath that was another phone number and that was the hotel's phone number. So he calls, probably calls Charlotte. She picks up, she's not fucking out with Charlotte, calls the next number, it's a hotel, knows what's going on.

Oh, okay. Yeah. So, okay. So the autopsy report again shows that Kathy had had sex that night and they, and this is obvious, but it kind of blew my mind that they can tell that whoever she had sex with had had a vasectomy. Oh. Which is obvious because there's no sperm, right, but like I'm also like, wow.

Yes. Yeah. That's fascinating. Isn't it? Her boyfriend that she was seeing hadn't had one and he passed the polygraph with flying colors. It's definitely not him. Like we know it's not him.

So that means she had sex with another guy. Guess what? Steven had a vasectomy a few months earlier. So here's the thing about this case and about Viter is that everyone on either side who thinks Steve did it or thinks he didn't agrees that the cops, the investigators fucked this up royally. And I'll give you proof of that because the crime scene with the car and Kathy in it, and they take all these crime scene photos, later find out there's no film in the camera.

What? There's no film in the fucking camera. There's not a single crime scene photo of this case. Okay. But. Nope. No buts. You can't fix this.

How? Like even, even if you're, even if you're it's your first week, it's like a joke I make a lot. When are those, is there film in there? And also a camera like the way those, I would assume the camera I'm thinking of the kind like that they used to use a recorder that would have like film film in it makes a noise. It makes a noise. It's also like, it's sometimes you can see the yellow through the little window a hundred

percent and they're definitely lighter when there's no film in them. It's like a slightly interested photographer would be like, this is it. Right. And this goes to the other big thing, which is there's just conspiracy theory. I'm into the conspiracy theory a hundred percent. Because you don't want it to be real that someone would just forget the fucking film. Right. But there's other things too.

Like, so they go up to his door, right, like right after they find her, it's like, like between 4.30 and 5.00 in the morning, they don't bring him or the two sleeping daughters in for questioning. They don't secure the scene. They don't ask if they, I think they ask if they can come in and he says no. Because he doesn't, he says that other friends of mine have had evidence planted by these cops around here. So they don't, they don't get a search warrant.

They don't try to get a search warrant. They don't photograph his face or hands to see if he has scratches. I mean, they don't do anything. Yeah. It's, it's, it's even if there is conspiracy theories that are true, they also were fucking incompetent. Well, I also think it's that thing. Or they botched this.

They botched this investigation. If it's a small town in Texas, they've had no experience with like a murder and a murder coverup and all those things where it's like, oh no, go down to Steve. Yeah. That's that problem, that small town problem was like, oh, I know that guy. It's fine. It's not him. They both admitted later in this trial that they were acquaintances of his.

So they knew him. Yes. Which is part of the conspiracy theory. But you know, there's some. Or just the theory. Yeah. I mean. When there's no conspiracy.

Yeah. You just have theory left. Yeah. That's right. And then Steve and like two days later in question him and he's like, oh yeah, actually Kathy and I had, he volunteers that they don't even ask him. Kathy and I had had sex before she went out that night, which gives him a reason why his semen would be there.

Right. He says that he, she was getting ready to go out again. They had split, they, he had moved out two nights before. So how much do you want to fuck your ex who like you just kicked out of the house? Right. I mean, I've broken up with people and I had, who I kicked out and I hadn't had one sex with them for like a year. Right.

Right. Yes. So he sees her in a towel coming out of the shower. He says he tries to have sex with her. She agrees. They fuck in the living room on the rug. That's his story. Okay.

Where are the children? What? I guess they're, they're in bed already. Because it was late. Okay. Whatever. I mean, look, we all also know like you can think of a thousand times where you're just like, oh, I'd never fuck that person again and then suddenly are.

So I mean, you can rationalize so many things. She's going to see her new hot boyfriend too. True. In her hotel room. Right. No, I know. And maybe she's also like, you know, he'll be suspicious unless I do this. Is it true?

I mean, there's, yes. There's a million ways to, to, there's a million possibilities. Right. But okay. So when Kathy is found in the car, she doesn't have on makeup or jewelry. It had all been removed, but the dude she was meeting said she was in full makeup and had like an outfit and jewelry on when he saw her. So that suggested that she had been home after visiting the dude.

She left the hotel room around 2 30 in the morning. It suggests that she went home, took off or did her nighttime routine. I was listening to Southern fried crime and she talks, she says this really interesting thing that I totally caught onto, which is like, you know, in every lie, there's some truth. Yeah. Well, Kathy's, Kathy's habit was to come home, take off her makeup, her jewelry, get in the shot, put up her hair and get in the shower.

So Steve's saying he saw her in a towel after a shower. Could be true. It's just later. Yeah. He approaches her for sex. He fucking knows she was just at a hotel because he called the number and is blaming her for cheating on him. Right.

Essentially. Yes. Is just probably pissed in general. And so the other thing is that the blood is found blood stains are found on her underwear and skin, but not on her outer clothing, suggesting she wasn't wearing clothes when this, when the blood happened. Right. So they said Kathy Page was not killed in her vehicle.

She was killed in another location, cleaned up, redressed and placed back in her vehicle after the vehicle had been rolled down the ditch. So they think he rolled the vehicle down the ditch, carried her body back in, probably put her down in the grass, which is how the grass got on her jeans. Right. Etc. And fucking in cold justice, they redo this because they have no photos to look at. So they reenact the whole thing of how it would go.

Is that crazy? Also, I wonder if a small town would even have a staff police photographer. Right. No, they wouldn't. Is it like... There's the camera. Get the camera. Yeah.

Someone go get the camera. So that could be a part, but still it just doesn't. Yeah. Doesn't seem right. If you know enough to take pictures of a crime scene, if you know that much, however, I could see some 19 year old new recruit that like take the photos and he doesn't know jack shit and just does that. And also if the flash is going off, you're like, oh, it's not happening.

Totally. Yeah. So two days after her body is found, it's publicly announced that Steve was the prime suspect. Steve fucking obviously. This guy, man, he's a piece of work and he, there's an interview with him on Unsolved Mysteries and you're just like, oh, you're referring to yourself in the third person. And all you do is say how this, how her death has badly affected you and your career and

you're like... No. He's a creep. Yeah. That's always like the seven red flags is that kind of like this murder has impacted my life really negatively. These build boards that her dad put up have made, you know, it's like, which is probably true.

But yeah, he's a creep. So he claims he's innocent. He says that proof, part of the proof that he can show that he's innocent is that after Kathy was murdered, he started receiving phone calls and was threatened that the same thing would happen to him if he, the same thing would happen to him, threatening him. He claims that it was, he says that everyone knows around town that it was, the murderer was actually a member of a prominent Italian family in Beaumont and they're part of the Beaumont mafia.

Oh. Did you know that Beaumont has a mafia? Is that Sopranos season six? I think, I feel like I'm just getting to that season right now. I think it's a spin off of Sopranos. I mean, it's possible. No, it's not. It's like, not, it's not a thing.

It's like, that's the thing in Texas where if one Italian shows up, everyone's like, gather round everybody. We've got to get rid of this. That's right. Well, yeah. Yeah. And in Southern fried crime, she's like, I've tried to Google it. And even this story doesn't come up when you Google Beaumont mafia because it's so fucking

random. Yeah. And that also sounds like something that Beaumont high school made up to call their football team or something, you know, to be more, it's like, we're the Beaumont mafia and we're going to kick your ass, Laundale, the Goths in the trench coat. Yeah. He sees like they're responsible for death and they're there for the police are framing me.

Okay. So here's another couple of reasons why we think he did it. So it's obviously Kathy's family, her big family against Steve's big family and they contradict everything the other one said. So in the very beginning, they didn't think Steve had done it yet. They weren't suspicious of him. So the minute that the family finds out about her, the parents find out about her death, he says that it's she broke her neck and it maybe was a suicide.

He already knew that she had been murdered and he doesn't tell them. He also suggests that she was on cocaine. Oh, she's not. Oh, no. So he's fucking weird and saying some weird shit. And then also they, they noticed that there's a square carpet cut out in the living room, which he offers to police is where that's the same place where they had had sex that night.

Remember where they bone in the fucking living room? Yes, but and why? Who cut it out? Who cut it out and why? And also says that not only did we fuck there, but there was blood, Kathy's blood on it because she liked to shape her legs in the living room. So okay. Yes.

Somebody at this point, if I was at the police station, I would open the door and I'd be like, dude, fucking knock it off. Knock it off. Go to jail. Go. Just go get in jail. I, you can't find a woman in America who shaves her legs in the motherfucking living room.

Or even if she does, have you ever bled enough on the car? Like you don't, you don't, oh, was she dry shaving? What? What? You know, when you cut your leg and you just spurt blood all over the place and you just kind of stand there. But the reason he says he got rid of the rug is because that he was carrying some fucking grease from, from fucking cooking fish, fucking trips, ran over to the spot where he had sex

with his wife, spilled it there. Oh, I mean, there's just, you pick one reason and he gave them all. It was the Bermuda Triangle of their carpet. That's right. And so he got rid of it. He also never would let the cops in. He burns that fucking piece of carpet. He burns everything that he alleged, he allegedly said he tried to clean it and her family said

that they saw his family trying to clean that spot too. Good God. Yeah. And they're all, no, no, that didn't happen. Also anytime you're entering into a burn area, you're in dangerous waters because the, the usually the innocent don't need to go burn stuff in the backyard. Absolutely. Although you guys, you and some of the people that taught me I'm from Orange County, which

is suburbia, that burning trash in a backyard is a normal thing. Very much so, but you can only do it on a burn day. Yeah, I didn't know that. So please call your comptroller and find out when, when the burnings are allowed. Listen, my favorite murder is, if there's anything we're against, it's unlawful burning of trash. Yeah, please. Civics are key.

Everyone. We're running for mayor of your city. When we learn to pronounce it. That's right. So the other thing that was fucking creepy and weird is that all of Kathy's watches have disappeared, all of them. So, and that didn't happen until after it was discovered that she hadn't been wearing any jewelry that night when she was found, she had come home and taken off all her jewelry.

Steve was probably like, I don't know which fucking watch she was wearing. Let's put them all out of here. And Kathy's sister says that she's reached like right after the murder saw Steve give his creepy weird lawyer friend, which they talked to and call justice, a Manila envelope. He passes it off to him. It was bulky and it made a metallic sound and Steve said that there was candy in it. So whatever jewelry she's wearing that night, he probably put in a Manila envelope, gave it to his fucking creepy ass lawyer friend.

He's going to cover him. He's better called Saul style lawyer. Exactly. He's Joe DeRosa's character. The fucking. The vet. The vet. He gives people, does surgery on people.

That's right. So yeah, this guy is, is, seems like he's not only only lies all the time, but is terrible at it. Yeah. Can I tell you the worst thing he did? I was going to save it, but like when I saw him called, there's a video up in called justice. I'm sure there's a video that Steven can stay up till three in the morning, find me. I'm kidding.

Because you know, that's like what it's like nine o'clock right now. It's so flippant. It's like Steven's reality, we're like the worst college classes ever had to like cram for every Wednesday night. Steven, we should let you know we're working on a new website where this stuff exists so you don't have to make it. Steven. It's true.

We are working on artificial intelligence, Steven, where you won't even have to talk to us anymore. Listen, you're a brain in Elvis's head. Just think about it. Steven, why do you fight us helping you by making you do more work all the time? Here's the video. And it is one of the most. Here's the video.

Steven's going to shoot for you. He's going to reenact it tonight. I'm going to need a reenactment of this. It takes place in the daytime, but look, Steven, figure it out. We'll do it. Night shoot. Yeah. Lights.

Okay. So Kathy's family started noticing that at her gravestone, flowers were strewn, someone was fucking around with all the shit that they were leaving on their lovely daughter and sister's gravestone. So they hire a fucking private detective. He goes and hides in the fucking bushes or whatever, videotaping. And here comes Steve and he punts the flowers on her gravestone. So angrily and hard, I had to pause it.

I was. It freaked you out. It's an angry fucking person who's angry that she was fucking someone that night. But also who's so psychotic that her being dead isn't enough. It's like he still can't be like, yeah, it's crazy. They have video of it. So he claims it's because, you know, he was mad at her family or they were putting plastic flowers on it and he didn't like it.

But then they also show him scratching some shit into the fucking gravestone. He gets down on his fucking scratches. It's insane. So I just, I mean, it's so troubling. So well, and also just the consistent lying. It's when people just constantly lie and lie to your face, do one thing and then are like, I'm not doing that. Yeah, I didn't.

I never told that person. Like the person's there and they're like, I swear he told me that I'm not the liar. Right. But you can't. If you say I'm not the liar, you sound like a liar. You're such a liar. Well, I'm not. I'm not.

But I'm not the liar. I swear. It's that thing of like, if there was a clone of you and that looked exactly like you and they were like, I'm the real Georgia, you'd seem like the fake Georgia because you'd be freaking the fuck out. Yeah. In my mind. Listen, but then you know what I would do?

Here's how you'd know. I'm the, I'm not the clown. I know how. Say it. You say, I don't give a shit. Is that right? No. I mean, that's not what I was going to say, but it's, it's exactly right.

I'm right. Right. Fine. She can give me a hair. I don't even go. I don't even fucking care. I was going to say, if you show me like, you know, a duck being friends with a goat, you'll see my eyes go red and then you'll know that that's me.

Okay. All right. I'm going to do next. If that ever happens, I'm going to know to do both. It's so, it's so much better though. I don't care. She can, she talks to the clone, she'll do it better. Let her have it.

Talk to the clone. I hope give a shit. Okay. So about the conspiracy shit, Kathy's family thinks there's a conspiracy with the police and the district attorney that they've been covering for Steve and they'd let them get away with murder. It's knowledge, it's common knowledge apparently that Steve's parents are close with the chief of police in, but, but in Vidar, but at the same time, it like doesn't really explain

it completely. Another theory that I heard from Southern fried chicken. Thank you. Southern fried crime. Is that the dude that she, her boyfriend that she was looking up with might have actually been a prominent citizen from the town. And in order to not, because we don't know his name in order to not, you know, get it publicized, they just kind of shoved the whole case under the rug.

Right. No fucking film. They think that no film in the camera was a conspiracy as you do. And it also took the police three years to get to convince the district attorney to issue a search warrant for the home. What? Yes. Three years.

Okay. Well, then that is, it can even, even in the, yes, it's a conspiracy simply because there's the, what is, was it called, it's the due diligence or like you have to do things in a timely manner. Totally. Is that just court cases or like, it seems to me investigating things. Yeah. It's like all of us.

You can't just not do your job when there's a woman has been killed and it, children have been had their, had their mother taken away. Right. That's, yes, all of it. That's disgusting. And I hate to fucking spoil. I, I spoiler rather you at the end of, of fucking called justice. And the Kathy Ziegler is a fucking monster.

Like she, I would not fuck with her. She's amazing. And even she can't fucking get them to get an arrest warrant for him. And she gets so much information that he against him that it, she, okay. You got to see it. I have two more pages. And I'm like, okay. Okay.

So when this happens, it takes three years to get the search warrant. So Kathy's father, James Fulton is like, I can't fucking deal with you people anymore. He owns some land by the eye 10. And he's like, watch me bitch. Yeah. He puts up all these billboards, previous versions included quote, and this is huge and you can see it online. I believe my daughter was raped while she was being strangled to death.

Viter police botched up the case and also one that said this could happen to you. I think I already said that. Yeah. And I figured this is Orange County. It's their Texas Orange County online. City of Viter, here you get by with brutally murdering a woman. The current sign put up in like 2012 or 2014 includes a picture of both Steve and Kathy. And it says, Steve Page brutally murdered his wife in 1991.

Viter PD does not want to solve this case. I believe they took a bribe. The attorney general should investigate signed James Fulton, her father. Holy shit. And some people are like not into these signs at all. And obviously Steve took the daughters, moved out of town pretty quickly. But then they kind of grew up after that as orphans because he shacked up with a married woman and sent them to his sister.

They had to end up living with his grandparents. I mean, it's really sad. But in 2000, Kathy's family sued Steve in civil court for wrongful death. The civil jury found that there was a preponderance of evidence that Steve killed his wife. Wow. So they, that quote found Steve Page killed Kathy Page. And Steve was found financially liable for Kathy's death and the verdict was upheld on appeal, which is big.

He was ordered to pay $200,000 to her family. Wow. He was also convicted and fined and given probation for the desecration of her grave. Yeah. So he's now 61. He lives in Texas. He's yet to be charged criminally for her murder. His daughters were sent to live with family.

They became estranged from him. And sadly, the younger daughter, I don't want to say their names, but you can find it online. She died of a prescription drug overdose in 2011 at the age of 27. Oh, that's terrible. I mean, it's case remains open. And the father has spent more than $200,000 himself on billboards since the early nineties on his own land. He's now 86.

Kathy's mother, Dorothy, died in 2012 without ever having a closure on this. Kathy's father says, quote, this is my priority until my death to try and get something done. It's not over with yet. I'm fixing to do a whole lot more than what I've already done. And the surviving sister who has a blog about this, apparently she wrote about it. She hated the billboards. And she said, quote, to me, this billboard is not about my mother. It is about two stubborn selfish men with too much guilt to carry.

And that is the true story of three billboards outside of Evie, Missouri. Wow. So the daughter basically feels like the billboards aren't that that's just it's more about their fight as opposed to finding who did this. Finding who did it. Yeah. So it's I wanted to end on his quote because it's like, yeah, go get them. Like the daughter's the inmost innocent victim here and it's not doing anything for her.

Well, and also we know his point of view because we're getting the billboard say it. He's taken that action, but she's the one that is directly impacted and and her point of view is as important. And it is. I mean, what do you do though? It's like what a terrible position where that's it feels like the only recourse that you have is putting up signs on your land totally that says this hasn't gotten taken care of. Well, at the end of the school justice episode, you're just like, yeah, like that's all there

is to do because no one is fucking listening and no one will do anything about this. Right. I mean, they they brought the case to the district attorney and he refused to to take it on. Was it the same guy from when it happened? Like don't know. Oh, sorry. All right.

I don't know. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. Bananas, right? Yes. So good. Well, mine mine is one that I considered doing when we were in San Diego, but it's so awful

that I didn't want to do it for a live show because it's it's just terrible. I mean, obviously everything we talk about is terrible, but this is it's not only, you know, incredibly terrible, but I remember this, this is one of those in like baseline on TV, on the news crimes that nobody could believe like when it happened, people talked about it and freaked out about it. And it was just in the air and it happened when I was 14. So I have a very strong memory of it. When your mind is grasping onto these fucked up things, right?

And it was the San Ysidro McDonald's mass shooting. Oh, man. Yeah. Oh, man. So there's a documentary called 77 Minutes that is all about it and about the survivors experience. There's a lot of survivors that speak in it and stuff. And so if you want to know more, this mostly mostly information I have is like straight

up Wikipedia, but watch that documentary if you want to know, get the real inside scoop because there are survivors that were inside and that speak about it. And it's it's also one of those things. There was a time in this country, you know, where this never happened and people had no idea even how to respond. They didn't know what it was. I mean, it's so sad now that you think that there are people in the generation below us. I mean, barely I'm so young that think that that public shootings is a normal thing when

really it's really in the past for for me, like 10 years, right? You know, when Columbine was this fucking insane thing that happened and never, ever happened as far as we knew. Right. And now it's like the norm. Exactly. And it's we shouldn't we shouldn't let it be normal. I feel like, you know, people say that a lot like on social media that don't normalize

this and don't. And I always want to say back, it's not that it's we are this country's in crisis and there's so much terrible stuff happening every day. You can't be reacting to everything all the time. You go crazy. Yeah. And so like we don't have you see the next thing in 10 minutes. It's not like you have three days of news coverage to to absorb it.

Exactly. And sometimes that makes sense. Sometimes the next thing in 10 minutes is another shooting. Right. I think that's that thing like you heard about there's there's the guy that walked into the bank and shot five women execution style and that as you're processing that, then there's another fucking couple that killed all the cops in Houston. That's right.

Five policemen. It's insane. Or dead. Then then like immediately you'll hear about that day where, you know, then 15 people were murdered on the South Side of Chicago and no one ever talks about that. And then people are like, don't talk about it because it makes the killer want the notoriety. And so then you're making it, oh, God, it's just the it's insanity. It's insanity.

It's insanity. And we need gun control in this country. Yeah. And we've needed it since the 80s. Just some rules. We need some fucking background check. The same kind of background check you'd need if you got a fucking abortion or if you got a fucking driver's license.

Yeah. Basic shit. Just some basics. But you know, that's this is that's more of a political. That's not gridlock. Podcast. Well, no, no, no, I just I just mean it like if it were. I think change is coming because I think the children who are being directly affected by

this are taking action in ways that we aren't. It's not as we I've never had to do a shooting drill at school. So there there are people that are being affected by it who are young and angry, who aren't going to just go, oh, that's terrible because it's happening to them amazing. And those people combined with the people who are in underserved communities where gun violence is like a deroger and who are like, we're just being murdered out here and no one's helping us. I think it's like the wave of that coming together.

Yeah. The people who are who are trying to live their lives. Yeah. It's yeah. Yeah. So okay. So let's just let's just go all the way down to them to the to bad town. All right.

James Huberty was born in Canton, Ohio on October 11, 1942. He had polio when he was three years old. He had difficulty walking for the rest of his life in his early in the early 50s. His dad moved them to a Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Amish country. So the mother when when that happened, she was like, I'm not moving there. So she left the family to go preach for Southern Baptist organization, which of course affected James terribly. And he becomes withdrawn.

He gets married in 1965 to a woman named Etna. They have two daughters. He becomes a welder in his hometown, Canton, Ohio. They settle down there, but there's lots of strife in the house, domestic violence. They Etna and James don't get a divorce ever though, but but it's pretty bad. Then James gets into a motorcycle accident where he has a permanent arm injury and his arm twitches uncontrollably. So he can't he can no longer be a welder.

Yeah. So he loses his job. He becomes a security guard for a little while, the family and this is like the darkest. They relocate to Tijuana, Mexico. So obviously things are going badly, but they come back and settle in the Sanyas Darrow neighborhood is Darrow neighborhood of near San Diego. He gets a job as a security guard, but then he loses that job. As a security guard, he is depressed over that, but he also is a gun nut.

So there are stories. His daughter's had friends that would come over to the house and they said there would be guns just laying out on the kitchen table that he was often playing with a switchblade. There was just a lot of like violent overt, violent behavior going on all the time. And then on top of that, so on July 17th, 1984, James tells his daughter that he was his wife, Etna, that he thinks he has mental problems, that he thinks he needs to talk to somebody. And you have to think of it in 1984 that there was a huge social stigma, like even admitting

it, I'm sure to your wife was a huge deal. And they're from the Midwest, which is like bootstraps, central. Yeah. Nobody needs help. Don't how dare you need help. And yeah, and for somebody like this guy who clearly like he wants to problem solve by killing things. If you create a problem, if you threaten me, if you make me mad, I'm going to pull my gun

out. Yeah. So the idea that he would then say, I have mental issues and I need help is a very big deal. So he on July 17th, he calls a mental health clinic and asks for an appointment. He leaves his contact details with a receptionist and she assures him that someone is going to return his call within the next hour or two. So he sits next to the phone and waits for that return call.

And the his wife said he waited for a couple hours. The call never comes. He gets up, walks out of the house, gets on a motorcycle and drives away. So I don't want to blame people, you know, things because a lot of people have that happen to them and they don't do this stuff. Yes, exactly. But it's fucked up. I mean, it's a crazy.

It's well here. So here's what happened. The receptionist misspelled his last name is Schuberty. And because he was so polite and did not seem he was that he was in immediate crisis. She didn't put she logged the call as a non-crisis injury inquiry, sorry, and that it would be handled within 48 hours. So her timeframe, she didn't really communicate the correct timeframe. Yeah.

I mean, yeah. And in his mind, clearly he was at the end of his rope. But she interpreted the call and his behavior as basically check in on this person. So he comes home from that motorcycle ride an hour later and the wife says he seems fine. They have dinner, the whole family rides bikes to the nearby park. Later on they come home, the kids go to bed at night and James watch a movie. It's like normal life. The next morning is Wednesday, July 18th.

James Huberty takes his wife and their daughters to the San Diego Zoo and they're having just like a lovely day. And all of a sudden he turns to Etna and says, I think my life's over. And she basically gets him to say, he's so angry that the mental health clinic didn't return his phone call. And he says to her, well, society had their chance. That's not fair. Right.

So they go to a McDonald's for lunch that day after the zoo, the McDonald's in Claremont, which is where the tank rampage took place. Yeah. This is all like in the same neighborhood. And then they go home. So later that afternoon, he walks into the bedroom and he kisses his wife saying, I want to kiss you goodbye. And she asks where he's going and he says, I'm going hunting, hunting for humans.

And he walks. Fuck. Yeah. He walks out of the house on his way out the door. He says goodbye to his daughter and says like explicitly says to her, I won't be back and leave. Oh my God. So at approximately 3.56 PM, same day, James Huberty drives his black Mercury Marquis

sedan into the parking lot of the McDonald's on San Ysidro Boulevard. He's wearing camouflage pants and a black t-shirt. And he is carrying a nine millimeter Browning HP semi-automatic pistol, a nine millimeter Uzi carbine, a Winchester 1200 12 gauge pump action shotgun. And then he's got a bag, a cloth bag filled with the ammunition. There are 50 people in the restaurant, roughly. So it is a busy afternoon and that McDonald's is busy. Yeah.

Because there's customers and full employees, full staff, obviously. He walks in, he yells freeze. He aims his shotgun at 16 year old employee, John Arnold. Oh, and right before he does that, the assistant manager Guillermo Flores shouts, hey, John, that guy's going to shoot you. So John Arnold turns around and James Huberty is standing there and shoots and the gun doesn't the shotgun doesn't go off. So then John Arnold thinks it's some awful prank where he's like, what the fuck is this?

And as Huberty is looking at his gun, the manager, 22 year old Neva Kane, and this is the saddest part. It's all teenagers, of course, it's a McDonald's in the 80s, it's all teenagers working there or like very young people. So Neva Kane is the manager and she walks over like, hey, what's going on? She's walking toward the servants counter. And that's when James Huberty fires, starts firing the Uzi and he murders Neva Kane right there.

And then as he does that, then he unjams his shotgun and shoots John Arnold in the chest. He yells for everyone to get down on the ground. He starts calling everyone, he's calling them dirty swines. And he's shouting that he's killed thousands and he intends to kill thousands more. A lot of people interpret that as thinking he is a Vietnam veteran. But afterwards they find out he'd never had any military service. So what does that mean? But I think he was just trying to be scary or maybe seem like that kind of person, like

I have a bunch of experience with this. Intimidate everyone. Right. But yeah, that is not the case. 25 year old Victor Rivera, so he just begins shooting up the place. And at one point after the screaming and it's basically clear that he's basically, I hate all of the people in this building and I'm going to kill you all, a 25 year old man named Victor Rivera begins to plead with him not to harm anybody else.

And James Huberty turns around and shoots Victor Rivera 14 times and kills him. Oh my God. So this is the massacre beginning and it goes on. It's so terrible and it goes on for so long. And it's just the worst case scenario in every way. Starting with, and this is tragic and awful, because so he started roughly around almost right before four. And so maybe like a minute or two before 4pm.

By 4pm, there's all these calls coming into 911 or two emergency services. And the dispatcher mistakenly directs all the police to the wrong McDonald's that's two miles from, so there's two within two miles of each other and they just give the wrong life. Oh fuck. Yeah. So since the police aren't there to lock the scene down for a while, James Huberty is inside this McDonald's shooting and people are walking up, coming in, pulling into the

drive-thru. Okay, so a woman named Lydia Flores pulls into the drive-thru. She notices the shattered windows. She hears the sound of gunfire before looking up and she says looking up and there he was just shooting. She reverses her car out of the drive-thru, crashes into a fence with her two-year-old fucking child, her two-year-old daughter hides in the car until the shooting stops. So she basically pulls up to it and then gets away, crashes, and then just hides.

Holy shit. This is the most tragic and there was actually a picture in the newspaper. I mean this story was so huge for so long, it still gives me chills. What year was it again? 84. Okay, because I didn't know about it until I got older because I was a kid, but I'm sure my mom would remember it. Yes.

This is a picture that I bet you she remembers because three little boys rode up on their bikes and basically Omar Hernandez, Joshua Coleman, and David Delgado rode up while an intermittent shooting was taking place. So they rode their bikes up, dropped them outside, went in and were immediately shot. They actually, sorry, they weren't even in the building and he shot and Omar Hernandez and David Delgado died at the scene. Joshua Coleman somehow miraculously survived after being shot in the back, in the arm and in the leg.

Holy shit. He says he saw his friends murdered, he throws up, he's there and there is a picture, you guys can go find but like of the bikes on the ground and then there's like an EMT with that little boy. Oh my god. And it's such a miracle that he survived. But this is like just, this is just the beginning of this massacre. It's just so awful.

Again, because there's no police there, no one's locking anything down. An elderly couple is walking in, Miguel Uola and his wife Aida are walking in, Miguel 74, Aida is 69. They're walking in and right as Miguel opens the door for Aida, Huberti turns around with a shotgun and shoots her. He starts, Miguel starts screaming at him, of course, and then he gets shot too. So everybody sees that, it's just fucking like worst case scenario, people in the restaurant of course have hidden under tables, they're people that are like shot and dragged, have

dragged themselves into the bathroom, it's crazy and everyone's on the ground and it just keeps going. So the shooting just keeps going. Why isn't anyone, why aren't the cops here, why isn't anyone stopping this person, why isn't? Yes. You know? It's a nightmare.

I'm sure that's what they're thinking. I'm not, I'm not asking that. I'm sure that's what they're thinking. Exactly right. And that the people in, he's clearly you can't talk to him, you can't reason with him, you can't even be seen. So and that gets established very early on. So when the officers finally do arrive, they set up a six block lockdown perimeter, there's

175 officers that end up at the scene. They set up a command post two blocks away and of course a SWAT team quickly follows. Thank God. But the problem is there's so much gunfire, they can't, they think there's a bunch of people shooting up the inside of McDonald's and he shot out because he has an Uzi, he shot out so many windows that they can't see into the, the windows are shattered but they're like, yeah, they can't see in. So they can't get a clear view, they don't, they can't get a sense of what's going on.

It's crazy. Okay. So at one point, and he, several survivors say that they saw Huberti walk toward the service counter at one point, adjust a portable radio. He brought a radio in, he was trying to hear on the news what, what was going on, how close the cops were. Oh my God. And then he put it on a music station and returned to shooting.

I mean, let's remember real quick back to when he left the house. This is a father of two children, like suddenly now he's this military psychopath in my head but it's like the kids he just shot outside the fucking rest, like restaurant could be his kids. Yes. This isn't, this isn't some fucking, it's insane. Yes. It's insanity and he knew he was going insane.

He reached out for help and then it's almost kind of that thing of like, I think we've all been in that, you're, you're most vulnerable and you're, and you ask for help and if you get rejected, yeah, like that makes a person never ask for anything again. Yeah, but it's that thing of like, but then most of those people don't go kill a bunch of innocent people. Of course. Like, but then there'll be a little bit of a, there's other things, there's other things at play.

Let's hear it. But you're right. Is it, it's almost like culturally, it's as if like, oh, here's the solution. Are you upset? Have you been rejected? Are you mad at women? Are you mad at people that don't look exactly like you? Well, then here's what you can do about it.

Here's an Uzi, here's a fucking shotgun, whatever. That's like, there are people who, that's their belief system. And they have access to those weapons. Yeah. Finally, at 517 p.m. So it's four o'clock is when we fucking started and it's been an hour. The documentary is called 77 Minutes because it's an hour and 17. Holy cunt.

That is insane. It's horrifying. But they finally, they get up onto the post office that's across the street that has an unobstructed view into the McDonald's. And for one second, Huberti appears in this guy's scope. He can see it's basically just his head. And so he takes the shot and fires a single round and he shoots Huberti in the chest. He sends him sprawling backwards onto the floor in front of the service counter and

kills him instantly. Good. So as I said, the incident lasted 77 minutes, during which time James Huberti fired a minimum of 245 rounds of ammunition. He killed 21 people and wounded many, many others. The victims whose ages ranged from eight months to 74 years were predominantly not exclusively but predominantly Mexican or Mexican American, which is obviously the racial element behind that and clearly part of this man's either agenda or insanity, whatever it might be.

So the victims were Claudia Perez, who was nine years old, Elise Herlinda, Borboa Firo, who was 19, Jose Rubin, Lozano Perez, who was 19, Neva Denise Kane, the manager, who was 22, Michelle Deanne Karncross, who was 18, Carlos Reyes, who was eight months old, Maria Elena, Col Merino Silva, who was 19, Jacqueline Wright Reyes, who was 18, Gloria Lopez Gonzalez, who was 22, Victor Maximilian Rivera, who was 25, Aris Delci, Vargas, who was 31, Blyth Regan Herrera, who was 31, Hugo Luis Velasquez Vasquez, who was 45, Mateo Herrera was 11, Paulina Aquino Lopez, who was 21, Lawrence Herman, versus Luis was 62, Margarita Padilla was 18.

Oh my God. David Flores Delgado was 11, Omar Alonzo Hernandez was 11, Miguel Victoria Loa was 75, was 74, and Aida Loa was 69. Five of the dead were under 11 years old. In 1986, this shooting was the deadliest mass murder in the United States until 1991. And as we know, now it happens much more often. In other words, in 1986, at the Huberty, people were very upset because she got money from the victim's fund, which she was a victim too.

It's understandable that people are upset. It's so hard. There's nothing about this that isn't the worst scenario where there's no winners, there's nothing good. I know. It's all deep tragedy. It's hard to find your humanity, your own humanity, when someone has fucking just stomped all over it.

It's so hard. Yes. But we know we need to feel it and have it, or else that's the problem with people who do shit like this is they have no fucking humanity. That's right. So we need to make sure that we pay attention to ours. And keep it, yes, exactly, and hold it, and understand that that's that part of it. But it's like, but if you're super close, like a victim's fund situation, it's just,

it's not good. I totally understand. In 1986, so of course, there was a million lawsuits about this because of that amount of time that no one came. There were people running out and going, please, someone help us. It was the worst, the worst, the worst. And like all the, you know, the police were, it must have been absolutely horrifying because it's a SWAT team that they're like, we can't get a shot, we don't know what to do.

Yeah. They just, it was, it was not well handled like what could have been, what could have changed and what could have been better about this? I mean, because they, you would, you would think, or you might want to argue that they should storm into the McDonald's, but there's so much gunfire. They think there could be five people in there. They don't know what's happening and they can't see it. Even still though, it's such a long time.

It's horrifying. It's so long. There's so many lawsuits, just every direction. But interestingly, at Nahuberty, unsuccessfully tried to sue McDonald's and Babcock and Wilcox, which was her husband's longtime former employer in an Ohio State court for $5 million. The suit claimed that the massacre was triggered by both a poor diet and her husband working around highly poisonous metals, further citing that monosodium glutamate in McDonald's food combined with the high levels of lead and cadmium that were discovered in Huberti's

body at his autopsy. They were? They were. He was a welder and so he had a ton of heavy metals and bad toxic shit in his system. Basically they, they think the buildup from the fumes that he inhaled during his 14 years of welding at Babcock and Wilcox had induced delusions and uncontrollable rage. There's the thing, as we say, but what then, why aren't all the welders doing it? Cause that's, cause no.

The autopsy did reveal there were no drugs or alcohol in James, James's system. Which almost, does that freak you out sometimes? Like I want to see massive amounts of amphetamines. So I'm like, okay, great. Exactly. There's none. Right. Because they're all in his brain.

Right. Because you know what, sometimes, like this is the argument is fucking people have chemical imbalances. Right. It's not simple. No. You know? No.

And it's the thing of when, I think in that position, the tragedy of course is that he wanted to get help. He gave them basically two hours and then that was it. Yeah. Let's not give him too much credit for that though. Yeah. Not at all. But I will say this is if, it's that thing of if you have, he basically had this, whether

it was because he was a welder or because he had, you know, the sad life that he did have before, whatever the fuck it was, you can't just, that idea that, well, I made that one phone call. Now I go get to kill everybody is, is just, I don't even know why I'm saying this. It's Ted Bundy. It's the same thing with fucking Ted Bundy and all my notes about you fucking being, he, he's not a, you know, there's scared little men who has violent tantrums. It's all, he's a, he has a violent tantrum.

Right. You know? He feels little and, and you know what, what fucking helps is killing women or shooting people. Yeah. It makes me feel bigger. Right. Or just control.

This is how I teach everybody a lesson because I've been hurt or rejected or fired or whatever it is. Yes. Yes. Does something good come out of this? Any laws? One of the victims became a San Diego policeman. Amazing.

And this, and if you watch this documentary, I, I haven't watched the entire thing, but that it has all the people telling their story, the way it's affected their life, the impact it's had on their life, of course, which is very bad. But it's also that kind of thing of like, this is the more these kinds of stories get out where it's, this is what happens when you're on this side of it. Right. That it, we should prevent this not because it's a political argument or because I believe this or I wear this color hat or whatever.

100%. It's, you decimate, you decimate 50 people's lives in, in 10 minutes when you walk in somewhere with an Uzi and bad metals in your brain or a grudge or whatever the problem is. Well, it's, when my mom and I were arguing loudly at a nice pizza restaurant about gun control as you, over white wine as you do. As one does. My argument, her argument of anyone should be able to have, you know, have guns in their house and all this shit.

And that we, you know, her six year old grandson, I'm saying to her, if he went on a play date, would you really want the person he's going over to their house to have, you know, an assault rifle in their fucking house? Right. Is, are you okay with that? Would you let them do that? Cause it's their fucking right quote unquote. Right.

No. And she fucking couldn't answer that. Of course. Because it's insane. It's like, it's great and everything is fine until it's you and it's happening to your life and you need to put yourself and have, have some basic fucking empathy and put yourself in the shoes of the people who survived it and the families whose loved one didn't survive it.

This wasn't supposed to be a gun launcher. Also, you know, we're preaching to the converted so hard right now. I know. I know. But anyway, I, I just, I have a very, I mean, they were not, and that's important too. Maybe people who don't vote are listening cause they don't like to get out of their house on that day. You know?

Maybe. But it's important. Yeah. Let's have less violence. Also just this, this one, just having seen it from like it, we used to, oh, just watch the news at night. And so whatever was on the news just went straight into my brain and the night this happened, it was, it really, it had this really intense ripple effect on this country in a way that

like things didn't that much back then because there was no social media and there was no whatever. It was intense. It was crazy. And it's really sad. Definitely. Yeah. Well, that was, I mean, you told that well.

I mean, thank you. Shit girl. I'm gonna touch that shit. Shit dude. I know. But she did good. No, but you did a great job. I just wanted, it felt like one of those things.

It's a, it feels like one of those ones where you're just like, but it should get said. Right. And maybe especially because it's of a underrepresented group or the majority who got killed. Yes. It's important to tell that story. Yes. For sure.

And shit. I mean. Yeah. Good job. Thank you. Now let's never do the hi-fi murders. Oh God. I mean, Jesus.

That's one that I will never, ever do. Yeah. That was great. Okay. So what's your fucking hooray for this week? Okay. So my fucking hooray, I'm seeing a new therapist. Nice.

She's great. I was talking to her about my self-esteem and how fucking hard it is to read one negative comment on Instagram amidst a ton of the kindest, you know, murderinos overall and people who comment on my answer, like the kindest people I can't get over it. If I could cry, I would. And one will affect me so negatively and make like such a bummer. So she was like, well, you know, you should try and I was like, oh God, what is she going to tell me to meditate?

And she said, recently I started watching Cardi B's videos on Instagram. And I was like, oh, I like, I'm so bad with pop culture. I don't really, I've heard of her. I know that store kind of ideas. I don't know the music. So I was like, okay, this is weird. And I went home and fucking watched a couple of Cardi B videos. I do, what I like, I do, I do, I do, what I like, I do, I do.

That's the little noise she makes. I am so in love with Cardi B and her fucking Instagram videos. The best. And her as a person, I, I, I, she, it's incredible. She's the best. Did you see the speech she gave about how the government needs an end of it? Because like you're pussy. Yes.

Like you go to, you go to check your pussy. Check your pussy. I can remix that song, that into a song that's amazing. It's on my Twitter feed if you want to see it. And one of my favorite comedians, who's now writing on SNL, Bo and Yang, he does this thing where he does lip syncs of those kinds of speeches. So he did one from devilwarsproduct. Oh my God.

He does these, they're really good videos. And he did hers like word for word, gesture for gesture, reenacting it. It's so funny. And he gave a shout out to someone else that I know who does that, who's amazing. That does that with like a movie. So he does like a lot of, he'll do like a Parker Posey fucking monologue and shit. And he's amazing. And I've been meaning to fucking talk about him.

Hold on. It's the Johnny Smith. And he does Johnny lip sync hashtag, the hashtag is Johnny lip sync. And he'll do these, to these fucking insane old movies, like postcards from the edge and shit. And just, he's crying. I love it. Yeah, Cardi B, I'm inspired by her.

Yes. You know how many fucks she gives? Zero. Zero. I'm just so, I'm amazed and I want to, I want to channel Cardi B. She has one of my favorite lines in any song ever, any lyric. She says, the only time that I'm a ladies when I ladies hose to rest. She has, there's some, her, her rhymes, I'm not going to talk about rap.

Like I didn't fucking know anything, but clever. So good. And also, but also just like, let's go see her. Let's go see her and let's go see Lizzo. Yeah. Lizzo is going on tour in April. This is spelled her name to everyone. Eli ZZO.

She? Oh my God. She's got our, our like backstage before we go on stage in the green room anthem. Like this is our gal who we fucking listen to and sing as we're walking towards the stage. Yes. Yeah. Don't do it. I do my hair.

Check my nail. Do it as hell. Okay. The song's called good as hell. Okay. I've tweeted it a ton of times. Okay, great. Go, go, go, go.

She also has a new song called juice. That's incredible. Right. She's, and also she was, she's like hitting the big time now. Yes. She's doing Coachella. She's doing a bunch of stuff. She fucking plays the flute.

She plays the flute and hits the shoe. She's the fucking shit. I love her so much. She's the shit and also she has that thing where the, her lyrics are really like, they're empowering. They're really like, sorry, let me just remember this one because I just texted this. So here's, this will be as I try to remember that I'll say this, Stephen, we stepped up 5am editing.

Stephen. This always sounds smart. I'm so sorry. No, you can leave that part in. But my therapist gave me this assignment. I've started going to therapy twice a week now and it feels amazing because I talk so fucking much and can't, I have to monologue at her. I don't like the feeling when we're like staring at each other and she's like, yeah,

let's feel that for a second. So how does that make you feel? So it's almost like there's the download. I was going to say episode appointment. No, it's an episode. Espionage. Well, we're going to start putting Karen's therapy sessions out as the podcast. You, everyone would roll their eyes the hardest.

Yes. And listen to it. So it's like the first day I kind of barf out all the things that I'm worried about. And then we get to like workshop it for a whole nother day. Whenever I hear people who go to therapy more than once a week, I'm like, you're doing the fucking work because your therapist said to you, you need to come in more than once a week, which makes you think, oh shit, I'm fucking crazy. Yes.

Like I knew dude who went three times a week. Yeah, hell yeah. And it's like, all you're doing is the work you need to be doing. Well, and it's, I am so, as we all are, no one's, look, we all have anxiety. We're all stressed out. We're all scared. We all have these issues. And there's like basic obvious reasons that have nothing to do with being, having a chemical

imbalance. No. Like to just fucking start with. Right. It's the way we're, we're built to have anxiety that I just read this somewhere. We're all the human beings that lived because we have anxiety. We stayed away from the fucking saber two tigers cave and we fucking don't touch the fire.

You know, we ran into the forest so that we wouldn't get killed and then didn't. And then now, and then now we stay out of the forest because there are serial killers in there. Like we have to find out which way we go in the forest. That's right. In or out. But we're filled with anxiety that we now societally interpret as a negative, which it's not necessarily. You're not crazy.

It's natural. It's how our reptilian brains are built. I also think it makes me kind of like quirky and fun. Sure. You know, also you love cats. I love cats. But she gave me this exercise and she said, uh, every day you have to write down five things not that you're grateful for because that's conceptual.

Write down five things that made you feel good in the moment. It can be anything. That day. Yes. The tiny big whatever that gave you a shot of actual emotion of yay, whatever it was. Like a little, like a little moment and just start recording them because I often have that thing where I feel I can't handle shit. So I just shut it all down.

Good or bad. Yes. It's all, it's none of my business. Yeah. How I feel. Yeah. Um, it's the mistake I make. Like don't, don't just be neutral all the time or just like I can't do it right now.

So like if, if I reacted real time, it would be bad. So I just don't do anything. Got it. But the problem with that is you, then you are not feeling the good things. Then you forget what's good. You forget what you like. You forget. And then that's how I personally, that's how I get into abusing substances because I feel

like I need to replace it with like real good life experiences instead. It's like, I can't handle any of that. I'll just go home and like eat, I'll go home and get high. I'll go home and just lay there and watch TV. All those things that do not serve me. And so in trying to peel that behavior back, you have to remember what is good. Like you can't just peel back things that are giving you comfort and then stand there. You have to like make lists of things you like.

So I've been doing it daily. And she said, you have to do it with somebody else so that you do it. So I immediately thought of Lizzie. I knew it. I knew it. Lizzie Cooperman. Lizzie Cooperman is our, obviously our friend. It's almost not there because of course it's, it's easy for her.

She, I didn't even have to explain it. I go, will you do this thing? And she's like totally like, she, it was like, she was waiting to do it. I love it. So it's just these lists and they're so odd, but it's just a thing that actually made you happy real time in a real moment. And it can be just hearing this person's voice on the phone. Me.

You every time. Will you do it with me for like one day a week? A hundred percent. Okay. Absolutely. I just feel like we're in each other's business so much. So much. But yes, because I, I'm telling you, having done this now for like, I think it's a week

or two, maybe two. I am feeling real time things where I go, oh, I want more of this feeling. I'm going to do these. It's, it's like, I'm noticing myself more because you're like, oh, I have to tell Lizzie that later. It's like, oh, this thing right now feels good. That's going to be on my list today. Exactly.

So if, if I have spent, I want to say you so bad, but it's me, um, if I've spent the day in my house talking to no one, but George and Frank, there's nothing to put on that list. So I have to go like, at least go to the store and talk to one old lady because you need some shit on your good list. And I swear it is like, it's like waking up this thing inside me where I'm like, I get to feel good shit real time. I get to be vulnerable, be in the world.

And I like it. I can handle it. I like it. It's good. And that's the only way to get more good stuff. It's practices. That's, you know, yeah, it's your therapy practice. Yeah.

And then the word practice is so important because it's not do it or don't do it and do it right. No, it's like, keep practicing, keep practicing. And I think the reason she did it, because there's been tons of times where like, I will, Lizzie sends me, you know, two days in a row and I'm like, what the fuck is this? And I'm like, oh my God, I didn't do my list. Well, Lizzie does this thing. I kind of think this is it.

She's only taught me this. You know, it's, it's like Gail or someone's fucking thing. But Oprah or Gail, you're not sure which it's the Tadah list instead of the to do list. And Lizzie of course told me that so long ago and I was like, oh my God. What's that like accomplishment? A Tadah, you know, you write your fucking to do that. I need to do this. I need that.

And into the day, Tadah list. What I did. Shit, I fucking did write this week or this day, you know. Yes. Tadah, motherfucker. Yeah. Like that needs to be credited to someone because Tadah, motherfucker. No, just Tadah.

I'm going to look it up because it's nobody's I'm claiming it when Stephen and I were Googling it. Okay, great. Yeah. Like little practices, like you say, little practices or mind yourself that you're not just a total piece of shit. Well, and also it's the thing too, you know, it's to me, I always get worried when you and I talk about like our real experiences at the top of the show because I don't want

people to be mad at us or hate us for being in a great position and still complaining. Like that's my fear. But I realized in kind of making these lists and stuff, I have so much to be overjoyed about every day. I could, I could fill up 10 lists, but I focus on what's negative, what I need to fight, what I need to do, what I'm not doing. Like all I do is focus on the bad stuff and it makes the hugest difference when like, I can remind myself, all your dreams are coming true.

Is this the beginning of our mental health podcast? I feel like it is. I mean, it could be. I drink a can of wine. I just, I just worry if we, if we name it that the lawsuits will be coming down the mountain. I just said, uh, that's the first one we steal. We stole that stolen.

Who did I steal? I want to know who I stole that from because I know Lizzie. It's Lizzie's fault. Lizzie Cooperman. Let's all blame her. If we do that, we have to pull Lizzie into it. That's oh my God. She could be our therapist.

She could. And the Tarot reader. Yeah, we should read our Tarot. Um, yeah, cool. Yeah. That was like a, that was a beautiful fucking horray. Oh, it's called fucking horray. It's called fucking horray.

Yeah. Um, wow. Yeah. Good job. Thank you. I've, instead of like talking about a TV show, I was like, I should just say, I was not going to say it because I was like, Oh, that's weird and private and I shouldn't do it.

Oh my God. Show, show it off. And every time I listen to my therapist talk, I'm like, God, I wish more people could hear her talking. Yeah. She said, today she said this thing. She goes, when human beings aren't supported and they don't have anyone that we just can't. That's the way she said it.

And I was like, like, she's just deep, but in that real way of like, Yeah. This is the truth. Yeah. This is, this is how it is for people. I dig it. Me too. I dig it.

Fucking shit, man. Guys, we barfed it out this week. And I think it's, you know, flash everyone your emotion, flash everyone yourself. Why not? Like pull down, like pull down your, um, tube top. Pull down your soul. Defensive. Tube top.

That's right. And get your soul tits. Flash. Flash your soul. I promise you'll be rewarded with beads, right, with Mardi Gras beads, with life, with spiritual life beads, spiritual Mardi Gras, soul tits, life beads, that you're flashing at every other human being. Um, and then there we go.

And everyone's better. Yes. The end. Everything's cured. Did we do it? We did it. We solved. Gun control.

We solved. God, this was a great. We really did it. We solved complaining. Complaining. We solved vulnerability. Listen, vulnerability, 2020. Right.

We did it. We solved, uh, vulnerability, and vulnerability. Um, gosh. Thanks for listening, guys. Thanks, everybody. Get back to this point. Fuck, man. Wow.

You're cured. You must need something. Go find it. We support you. Good luck. Uh, let us know what you find and stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.

Holy shit. Elvis, you want a cookie?