My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 16 - Blood Murder Sixteen Magik

Episode Date: May 14, 2016

The ladies discuss their new crime show obsession, The Family, along with the murder of Chandra Levy and the sad story of Sylvia Likens. Plus a hometown murder from comedian Kara Klenk.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Oh, we're recording. Oh, my God.

Jesus Christ. Hey. Hi. Hi, Karen. Hi, Georgia. How are you? Don't worry about it. Ladies and gentlemen, it's my favorite murder.

I'm Karen Kilgarath. I'm Georgia Hartstark. And we're here to talk to you about murders. Hey, you guys. Do you like to talk about murder? We're murder nerds. Yeah, we're murder nerds. Turns out a lot of you like to talk about murder.

Turns out it's not that rare or weird. No. I think it's just that other people don't live in big cities where everyone talks about, you know, there's more people that you can talk about murder with. I think a lot of people are like the only person they know that likes murder. Yeah, you can't go to your mom with this shit. No. She's going to shake her finger at you no matter what.

Yeah, and your husband's going to get scared of you. Yeah, he's going to be like, holy shit, I married that. Yeah, your coworkers are going to be like something wrong with her. She's going to kill me in the bathroom. I feel like, like, why are you that into it? Co-workers are always that girl. Oh, fuck yeah. Um, did you take my yogurt?

I'll murder you. I don't think it's interesting because my brother's best friend got murdered when he wasn't. I think that's actually really mean to like death. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's perfect then. That means I never have to talk to you again.

Yay. That's how I've negotiated my life personally. I test it out. Scaring away. Do your eyes go wide? Oh, then I've now weeded out the week. Goodbye. Okay, do you throw your brow or jump up and down and clap and say, I love murder.

That's how you pick your team. Totally. Yep. That's how we found each other. Did you already know that Kara Klink loves murder? I think she told me recently. She loves it too. Oh yeah, she texted me and was like, I have a murder story I want to tell.

I have hers. You have her. And it's amazing. Do you know that there's like, I've had a, the best compliment is when someone you know kind of from like your world writes to you and is like, I love your podcast. Yes. I didn't even know you listened to it. Yes.

I have a few friends who are like acquaintances who've done that and they're like, I have a story I want to tell you. And I'm like, I will, it should be on the podcast. Yes. I love it. It's yeah, because there's, I have, I've had the same experience and I kind of want to go like, it's so nice that you would even, the second I see somebody talking about their podcast, I'm like, turn off brain.

Like I never paid attention. Yeah. Meanwhile, I have the gall to have two. Right. Look at us. I mean, we're just, are we allowed? Cause there's so many other things that I'm interested in. Can we let's do one more together about something totally different.

A different podcast? Would it have the same passion though? Like what? Do we have another thing in common? No. I'll see myself out. You know what it is? What?

We could talk about vintage clothes. Do you like vintage clothes? Mm-hmm. In two months, we can talk about it a lot. Does anyone want to hear about fucking shopping and clothes? Nope. There's a reason. What are you going to do?

Describe them. Yeah. And then have pockets and buttons. I kind of looked like that one scene from Grease where they were at the dance. Yeah. That's why, because there's only so many vintage clothes, but there's just an infinite amount of murders. Yeah.

Because everyone's murdering. God. Guys, we just did the Cracked.com podcast, which was so awesome. So much fun. When does that come out? Shit. He told me and I don't remember. Jack, do you remember Jack's last name?

Nope. God, we're the worst. We're so self centered. Today's a little bit of a lazy Wednesday. Yeah. Uh, we hung out last night and went to a drag show. Oh my God. Jackie B.

That was a great show. It was so hilarious. Yeah. And, uh, we told your friends about, why did we start telling them that we had a murder podcast? Who? Your two friends that were sitting next to us. I don't know because when people are like, what are you up to?

Like, I don't know what to say. Yes. Because everything sounds like bragging. Well, what am I up to? I don't know. Like this thing, that's not that great, but sounds great. Yeah. So I just don't know how to answer that question.

Yeah, saying you have a podcast is good because it definitely does not sound like a brag. No. Cause it's just like outing yourself as a fucking self indulgent. Yeah. Weirdo. So yeah. And that's also a nice way to test the waters. Like, are you interested in this or no?

Yeah. And I think everyone is. I think so. Well, because that's the, what we were talking about last night is everyone watches 2020 and 48 hours. Like that's the reason they're popular shows and even people who don't like Vince wouldn't put it on, but when it's on, he's like dialed in. Yeah.

Cause it's good. Some good young storytelling. It is. So this was from, we had someone talk on the Twitter feed, which made me really happy and of course made me laugh. Again, anytime people are tweet, tweet in Yakuza, tweet in any of the stuff that we can't remember when we're, while we're talking, we love it. We loved it.

We would drive you crazy with not knowing. Sorry. Um, it's just who we are, but, um, it was, if I can't find this, it'll be the worst. Sorry. Now I'm going to be doing a reading talking where it sounds like I'm not paying attention. It's okay. I'll talk over you. Go to my fav murder on Twitter.

That's our Twitter account. Follow us there. Of course you guys already know about the Facebook page. We have almost 5,000 people in that brick and page and it's like, when I'm can't sleep at night, I just scroll through it and read all the articles where people are putting up. It's so good. I do the exact same thing.

And pretty soon we're going to have t-shirts. Like in the next week, you're going to be able to pre-order your shirt. So good. Which is so exciting. Did you find it? Yep. Oh, good. Uh, no, no, I didn't, but it's, I know I'm close because I remember these, um, it was

just a woman who said that she had to look up when I was talking about the, uh, oh, suppressive persons, uh, that we could not think of that phrase when we were talking about psychology. But lots of people could think of it and told us, which we love, um, that there was a woman who looked up, uh, the thing that I called like ground hypnosis, I completely made up the title for it. It's so great. It's for when people, when pilots are in the sky, they can't look at the ground cause it'll just instinctually just drive the plane into the ground.

Yeah. And she said what it was called. Yep. I can't find it. God damn it. I can't edit this part out. Um, can we really? Sorry.

If you want, unless you can find it. Um, this is my challenge to find it in five seconds. Five. Four. Three. I mean, it's like, all right, uh, I just retweeted it. I thought, but maybe, but maybe I've been secretly going in and deleting tweets that you just were fun.

This is a quote from us. I love when people quote us because I'm self centered. It's a powerful feeling. Uh, here's the thing that I know about skateboarders. They're massively chill. They don't murder families. Said Karen, oh, someone said quote worst case scenario. He eats the baby.

I don't know. Oh, that was you. That was me. That was you. That you'd never let Albert fish babies at your kid. Right. Um, by the time you're old, you're either completely evil or an American hero. Oh, no, wait, impressive persons.

Um, someone said, you said you're in a cult, call your dad. That's when I was just letting Scientologists know how it is. Oh my gosh. It's the best. Fuck it. I can't. I can't find this. I'm sorry.

That's okay. Um, let me see another quote. How about Shelly Miskovich is missing as fuck, missing as fuck, girl. Pretty great. That is a good one. I love that. I talk like that. My mom would hate it.

All right. Oh my God. I'm so sorry. I've got a lot of these series and S's, that I say on this podcast, my father would be lipid. Um, oh, do you want to talk about our new favorite show? Sure. The affair.

No, you mean the family. That's what I meant. I hate the affair. The affair is a bore, right? It's a trash heap. It's not even a bore. It's like, it makes me angry how just vapid and stupid every single person is on it. And I don't care about you guys and I you fucking deserve each other you have to go on

I think they're from a while back, but John Levenstein on Twitter was doing like basically live tweeting the affair and it was literally like Will he finish his book? We just don't know like he was pretending that this those plot lines were exciting and it was really hilarious Oh, I just want to kick that and all on the vaginas. Yeah, I did I didn't watch it because I don't care People have affairs or not. It's I feel it's none of my business. But yes, the family. Oh my gosh Someone on the Facebook group was like in a comment was like has anyone watched the family and I need a new binge watch So I was like, I'll check this out. Joan Allen. Yeah, the guy from Friday Night Lights. It's super cute. Yeah And like Sorenson Who's the cute? Oh, that's oh, that's what he's from the big brother. Yes, it's from Friday Night Lights

Yes, I was wondering I couldn't play Sam. Gosh, he's cute. He's a super cute guy that dated the coach's daughter Yeah, and he like ran away and yes, he's very cute. He's beautiful. He's so weirdly beautiful He's like plain and beautiful at the same time and he's got that like Skater like bad boy look to him. Yeah, like you want to fix him. Yes In this but that's how good of an actor is because in Friday Night Lights He was like the little abandoned boy that was being raised by his grandma and trying to be a good football player Which was like heartbreaking. You want to take care of this fuck? Yeah, cuz he's got those big eyes Oh my god. So here's the plot which is like my dream plot of anything ever is the kid goes missing at eight

Fuck and I love kidnappings come ten years later comes home Steven Stainer Who's what's he from Steven Stain? That's the real life thing that that really happened, right? I'm pause. These are my theories. I'll just shout out what I think they're basing it on Okay, there cuz there's it's a lot of like true-to-life shit. Yeah, the kid comes back. Is it really the kid or is it not the kid? Where has he been? That's the documentary The Imposter. There. Yes, exactly. Yeah Does someone know something does someone not know something there's like suspicions. That's the podcast. Does someone know something? The the the is the cop fucking the dad. Yes. Yes, that's not a spoiler work She found that out immediately. Yeah, my it's so great and what I love about it

Is that it the the biggest bombshell in the show doesn't happen until like you episodes in Oh My god, no, they keep they just keep I think they did a great job of like Understanding that these days people need more than just one like storyline like that right and folding in things that are fascinating and Possibilities like they basically made it the most dramatic possible show because then you want to go back and be like I watched it from an angle of thinking this was happening and and the whole time I didn't know this other thing was happening. So I want to go back. You'll you'll understand when you watch I want to go back and see everyone's reaction now that I know

They know what's going on and that the flashbacks are great They're all these like present day ten years ago like who got kidnapped. Oh my god, Andrew McCarthy. Oh my god He it plays like the town rapist creep who gets exonerated when the kid comes home because he got tried and convicted for the murder of this Kid, yeah, who and he is the one to try it went to jail as a child molester murderer Hey, I mean bad news, but he isn't a kid. Yeah He's got some problems. Yeah, he is Such a good creep. Yeah, he really is. He's got kooky eyes. Yeah, I'm happy to see him back in the acting world He directed an episode. Yeah, the flashbacks are incredible

And there's nothing I love more than a secret Buried room. Oh, yeah in the woods. How how what would you do in there? How would you get out? Yeah, and how crazy would you go and how terrible? Okay? Here's my problem with it. The police officer Doesn't know how to police the never lady. Yeah She is the worst. She should have been immediately fired after he gets exonerated. Hey, yes Everyone finds out he would have been looking the dad immediately taken off the case You're and you're still on the kid like so much of the cop shit is such bullshit I can't she like shoot someone who's unarmed. She had nothing happens. Yeah, I but that actress played daughter Maitland in

Boardwalk Empire and she was so incredible a year kill like I'm always like I know that face from somewhere Yeah, that's what she is. Oh, I had to look her up because I was like I know who that is And it's she has she had credit with me and I didn't know why and then I looked it up and I was like It's fucking daughter. I was like this must be her first role. I've never seen you know shit I just hate it's I love it all. It's great, but I have the same problem with this that I did with the killing I don't give a fuck if people are running for office. I don't want to know about their stresses I think it's the most boring thing possible. It's it makes me crazy. So it's like we've got the big speech

Yeah, there's nothing more boring than running for office and my thing is to like you guys are wealthy Just stay home and chill like in my life Yeah, don't power through it by Continuing to run for like state Senate stay home with you Like if I would if I were the mom and my kid came home ten years later I'd be like we are fucking staying home together for at least a week at least a week and bonding Yeah, also. We're already rich who wants to be fucking mayor. I mean Ridiculous don't you know about like cooking and hanging out at home and like being good parent and like or that if you go

Through a major life trauma You are allowed to stop doing the thing that you're doing for an indeterminate amount of time Totally don't have a nervous breakdown. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I get it. There's a couple flaws But overall it's very entertaining. The cop part is so huge for me that I almost can't I almost can't But the sisters played by Allison Hill who is one of the greatest actress What is she from she? Well, it's got pilgrim. She was the the The girl who was the drummer and Scott. Yeah, she's great in that but she was on an episode. What was that? In in in treatment. Oh, yeah, I never got past the first episode. I know it was supposed to be great

Luke Gabriel burn her episode of it is so good that I was like, oh my god This actress is so good and then I just started seeing her in a bunch of stuff I need to go back and watch it and the little girl who plays her in the flashbacks the two of them I mean, you know when you see flashbacks me like come on or there you're like they hired her because she looks like her But she's a terrible actress. It's like one of the two. This girl is great She's great like her. Well, and also I feel like because Joan Allen plays the mother And I feel like Joan Allen is probably in a position where she got to call at least a couple of the shots in this situation Yeah, how the show was set up you get Matt sorensen you get Allison pill

You get that British actor who's in everything in England and is now on this show. Which one is he? He was on I don't know what which one is he in the show. Oh the dad. I knew he had an accent Yes, that was bothering me because it was coming out a little bit and I'm like, well fine He cannot he can be from England when he was a kid, but for some reason it's like Bothers me. Well, you know, they always give British actors credit because there's so much better than American actors on the whole But right off in time it you have to have a good ear to be able to do a convincing American accent Yeah, and we I think most people are like, of course he can do it And then they're just like well every once in a while they'll drop an R do a weird thing

Exactly and then you get pulled out of it I do but then I'm like he can have been from Germany or from fucking England or from like Australia And it does like I know I need to just get out of my head. Yeah, but it does take you out of it Yeah, I just love that guy because he has been working consistently for easily 30 years He's in everything in England. So that's awesome for all my BBC obsessive television watching He's just like oh, he's in every other thing go to Hulu. You can binge watch the first like 11 episodes Also, there was a really good 2020. I just recorded that's about David Miss Kavage's father and that book that guy wrote about him And how that guy himself is crooked and it's I started watching last night

I don't know how but I fell asleep in the middle of the 2020 But it was good and David Miss Kavage when you see him talk. He is so goddamn crazy Oh my god It makes so much sense He's the head of a cult like Scientology because he just looks like a goddamn lunatic lunatic narcissist fucking You know, he looks like one of those like the kid in your class who was such a little shit and the teachers all loved him And he worked fucking vests. Yeah all the time. He look he's the kind of person that smiles without including his eyes So it's a lot of teeth, but then the eyes are like look like they want to murder you

Hey, I'm Arisha, and I'm Brooke and we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast even the rich where we bring you absolutely true and Absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen our newest series is all about the incomparable diva Whitney Houston Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death her talent remains unmatched, but her incredible success hit a deeply private pain In our series Whitney Houston destiny of a diva will tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and How the pressure to be all things to all people let her down a dark path Follow even a rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon music or Wondery app Yeah, speaking of murder

Speaking of which what's your favorite this week? Is it me first? I think so. What's our theme this week? Karen we the theme is let's not do themes anymore because they paint us into a corner and and make us do it all wrong I think when we don't have an idea of what we want to do like let's for the next couple ones Not do a theme. Let's play fast and loose and then like if I have one that I want to talk about and you don't have one I can be like, okay. Well, here's the theme that will work with this but we could also go We could also go into a realm at some point where we assign each other I like that I like an assignment. I wish you guys could have seen her face She would genuinely liked that idea

I lit up those you already have very big eyes and they just want like three times bigger Where was London is that your murder? Yeah those London werewolf martyrs No, mine is and interestingly enough happened in the year Every single murder from now on for you was gonna have happened in the year Yeah, Shipman didn't really didn't really serve the purpose it was supposed to so now it's all gonna be makeup work That's actually how my whole life is I fuck up something and then I'm constantly making up for it long past The time when anyone's interested putting more putting more effort into it

Then you would have had to if you had just done it the first correctly the first time I get that Always guys. Hi this week. My favorite murder is the murder of a young woman named Shondra Levy This was crazy I also and turns crazy And this is a I find this is a fascinating I just talked total shit about no one cares about when you're running for office And this is all about like politics totally, but it's the part that I actually believe I want you can cut straight to if you think a congressman has murdered somebody because I'll believe you Oh, always. Yeah, so I don't want to know I think everyone will yeah, right because talk about power hungry sociopaths

Well, that's the thing is like that's the thing of they want it to be Someone crazy and huge. They don't want it to be some fucking dipshit. Yeah doesn't just whose life isn't worth Half of this girl's life, right? They want it to be some powerful. Maybe there's like the government behind it dark Right something dark. She found out a government secret then they had to kick. Yeah, it could just go super crazy And I remembered because I had a lot, you know a lot of big ideas and judgments and what I actually thought and even in remembering it before I did The looked anything up was like, oh, yeah, I think he really did it and they just couldn't pin it on him And then I remembered there's a movie called

Absolute Power. It's a Clint Eastwood movie from 1997 with Gene Hackman. Do you remember this where he is a cat burglar? He's like a jewelry thief and he goes To rob this apartment and he get he finds a safe room and That has like a one-way mirror and he's in there stealing diamonds and then the people come back So he has to shut the door and hide and he witnesses the president murdering his mistress Oh, that's cool. Then yeah, then he while he is trying to figure out a way to expose it the President's whole team including Judy Davis and and the guy that that always plays that played the president on 24 Dennis Yeah, it doesn't matter. You're the one who remembers this. You don't remember it. You're so well

Basically, they they go about covering it all up and it's it just makes it so believable when they they start pulling people that could be Accused of it, you know the way that they will do it to clean up a massive Thing like that. So my problem with that though if you have a safe room in your house We probably also have an alarm system. Yes set up. So how do you even get it in the first place? Oh, I think there's a scene where he's like undoing the alarm system And then it's Clint Eastwood whispering to himself and a gravelly towing So that's what was in my mind and that was this that was three years before this even happened. Okay So in October of 2000

Sean der Levy who was originally from Modesto, California who went to San Francisco State. She was a Bay Area girl She means you're gonna get fucking murder. That's right. That's how we do it She had a degree in journalism from San Francisco State and she went to USC to get her master's in public administration So she be so in October of 2000. She went to DC to become a paid intern For the Federal Bureau of Prisons a thing. I didn't know existed until just today I immediately assumed it was the FBI and kept moving until later on they brought it up again Then I was like, oh shit. That changes it Federal Bureau of Prisons. How much money do you people make?

So Her internship was abruptly terminated in April of 2001 because her academic eligibility Was expired in December 2000. So since she'd already completed her master's degree Requirements, so she was planning on going back to California in May 2001 for her graduation at USC So on May 6th of 2001 Sean der Levy's parents call the DC police and say we can't get a hold of our daughter She hasn't called us and we can't contact her for five days and that's completely like not normal And we need your help. So

They flew out to DC. Yeah, and You know, they start talking to the police And in interviews with the police her father tells them that she's been having an affair with a congressman How does he know that? I guess she told her parents So which I think is kind of good. It made me happy that they knew about her life At least she told her best friend and the best friend was like when she was missing or something Yeah, maybe said this is what I think you guys never keep secrets because then they can't find out who murdered you Yeah, that's right

But but then again, don't keep a diary. There's a lot of conflicting messages on this podcast. Yeah, you have to stay with us Keep a word document. The truth will be revealed Eventually eventually we get you know, we have a plan. Yeah, there's a long-term five-year plan for this podcast. So So Chandra Levy's mother. I mean father tells the cops You need to look at congressman Gary Condon because they've been having an affair. So on May 10th the police get a warrant to search her apartment and They find her purse with her ID or credit cards all our good stuff to suitcase that are half suitcases that are half-packed Her answering machines full. There were two messages from carry Gary Condon on the answering machine

and When a police sergeant tried to examine her laptop He inadvertently corrupted the internet search data As he was not a trained technician you Fucking idiot. I bet he got in trouble like she should have on the family Yeah, that's I hope you got in trouble because it took them a month to fix it. It was the year 2000 so They finally are able to access what her last searches were on that computer and it was

On on May 1st and it was for Amtrak Southwest Airlines Baskin Robbins Gary Condon a weather report and then the very last one was at 1224 for the Pierce Klingel mansion, which is the park office building for Rock Creek Park so and And basically another month Goes by so this is two and a half months now from when she's reported missing. They finally searched this park Wow And it's by her house. Yeah, I think it was they said within four miles 30 cops search the park and they don't find anything and then they search it again

Like a couple weeks later and they don't find anything again. They go to talk to Gary Condon. He denies any knowledge of knowing what happened to her and The Levy family is now talking to the press themselves. This is how it always goes remember when this shit broke and it was like Fucking heavy. It was crazy and the Levy family tells the press They think that Gary Condon has something to do with her disappearance So now it's on like Donkey Kong because we've got a conger a seat of congressman Is that what you say? They're seated sure like an in-place Work-in congressman who's having an affair. He's married. This girl is

In her early 20s And and an unpaid intern or of no paid intern. Sorry a paid intern that he's having an affair with Not the only woman he's having an affair with wow as as is later revealed powerful hungry men So this is the kind of story that at the time this was pre 9-11 obviously. This is pre 24-hour news cycle. So this was back when You know CNN was its own cable channel, but they would be like Horse rescued out of a ravine You know this plane crash only to be it was a biplane only to be it was like that kind of stuff

And then one big stuff like this hit it would go all day at night Yeah, yeah, so it was different than it is now that people are used to So it would just be like here. We are the are all the alarm bells are ringing So the DC police chief announced on May 22nd 2002 so this is oh, sorry, I was just gonna say in July 2001 Fox News opinion poll of 900 people 44% said they believed that Gary Condon had something to do with Shonda Levy's disappearance based on no evidence based on nothing and 51% of people said that they thought he acted guilty And I think this also had something to do with the fact that you know the story broke probably at the end of May beginning of

June this is a whole month and nothing's happened So now you're just letting people stew and simmer and speculate and watch the same fucking news over and over and over The same coverage the same these beautiful photos of her and this you know this fucked up Senator. Yeah, and like what and just the people want answers. They want something So on May 22nd 2002 The police chief announces that skeletal remains matching Levy's dental records have been discovered by a man walking his dog and looking for turtles in Rock Creek Park to two years later Yes, two years later to the month

I want to see a picture of the man. I was looking for turtles. I mean immediately guilty Is he guilty or is he a big man child that had his whole life ruined because he stumbled upon a dead body? Great question And it was down a hill down a hillside in like a ravine so Detectives found bones and personal items scattered but not buried in a forested area along a steep incline Including sports bra sweatshirt leggings tennis shoes Bitch was going for not bitch. She was going for a run jog in the afternoon. Yep daylight. Yeah, so On June 6th after the police completed their search

Private investigators hired by the Levy's found her shin bone with some twisted wire About 25 yards from the other remains so There's a fucking major evidence that is right nearby that these cops do not find Wow and after two sweeps of the park Yes, I want to see the spot like off of the trail where she was found, you know, I mean like yeah Is that a busy trail? Is it not? I mean and then? Logic of when people get rid of bodies is they throw them downhill. They're not going to carry them uphill, right? So you need to look down every hill. Yes. Well, there's all kind

I mean and also you nowadays they do it and you see it all the time where if there is a body They have then like taped off, you know, 500 yards around the outside. Yeah, you don't You the idea that it's 25 yards away and that's just like oh, oh well well that just shows that a person isn't you know because someone who is Experienced in finding human remains would know that animals would have scattered the bones Yes, you look after two years and those those bones do matter It's not like it's like well It's a shin bone it doesn't matter because it had wire around it

You can find out where the wire came from Oh, no, it's totally it totally mattered because the police chief was quoted as saying it's Unacceptable that these items were not located. Wow, which is like well, that's all well and good But now we're after the fact where those PIs weren't hired Which is another thing that points to that thing of like you got to be rich to get any justice in this country Because if there weren't hired private investigators, that would have never been found. Yeah So the deep DC police claimed that they would have discovered Levy's body earlier if not for a miscommunication Regarding the scope of the search commanders had ordered the search within a hundred yards of each road and trail, but searcher

Searches were focused within a hundred yards of roads only Resulting in the body remaining undiscovered for a long period of time makes no fucking sense. No, you're searching a park You clearly check trails. That's what people walk on in parks. Totally. It's stuff doesn't even make sense And also the fact I mean this clearly is just totally Mishandled because at this point Like you're you've you you let somebody touch a computer that clearly will have vital information on it that puts you behind a month and Then you do a search where you basically kick some leaves around the park and go home

And you're like, nope. Sorry. And in the meantime this dude's entire career is over and like Ruined. Yep. Did he sue? Okay. Tell me more about it. Um, well the other thing too is that there are theories that the body got dumped after the police Searched so she may not have been there the first time around but It seems doubtful if they didn't even search Off rails, right, you know, it didn't seem thorough or like they even kind of knew what to do Anyway, so in the autopsy the coroner found damage to her hyoid bone Which is the u-shaped bone in the back of your neck that supports your tongue. I never even heard of that before Which suggests strangulation, okay, I didn't know yet. I know there's a that little bone. Yeah, if that's damaged

It's like you right squeezed But there's no conclusive evidence because the body was outside for two years so Of course then in September 2001 DC police and federal prosecutors contacted by the lawyer of an informant in a jail saying that they know who Levy's killer is and He says a man named a 20 year old illegal immigrant from El Salvador named Ingmar Guantique, I'll just say that's how you pronounce his last name

Who he shared a cell a cell with told him Condit paid him $25,000 to kill Levy So The investigators ruled the story out Because Guantique was in jail because he'd admitted to assaulting two women in Rock Creek Park Uh-huh. So, um, they ruled him out. Okay. They know they ruled out Gary Condit Paying this guy, okay, because they'd already had Guantique in jail because he'd already Attacked two women with knives and raped them in that park. That sounds like a pattern. It seems patterny to me

So It turned out that Guantique had showed had failed to show up for work on the day of Levy's disappearance and his former landlady Recalled his face appeared scratched and bruised. Whoa at the time. So he Guantique took a polygraph failed, but he didn't speak English and the polygraph administrator person Administrating administering the polygraph didn't speak Spanish. Okay, so yeah question mark and This was the only story in the news and then 9-11 happened and Gary Condit was like, thank you Jesus Everything's going my way finally wouldn't have been great if they had if I mean if a 9-11 hadn't happened

Yeah, that you know what now that you bring it up. It would have been great Yeah, but then also if Gary Conn had had a chance for the big story to be that he didn't do it He would be a fucking while he would still have been fucking 20 year old girls true, but you know You don't go to jail for that. No, but you're still a sleaze ball. I mean, he's a fucking politician Yeah, so basically this the it came it became a cold case for years Of course Gary Connett lost his reelection and loft left office at the end of his term on January 3rd 2003 So in 2005 our buddy investigative journalist Dominic Dunn was on Larry King and And he said he believed Gary Connett knew more information about the case than he'd been disclosing

Dun dun dun So Gary Connett filed two lawsuits against Dominic Dunn Dominic Dunn forcing him into an is in undisclosed financial settlement for one and the other one which was a slander case was eventually Dismissed because quote the context in which Dunn statements were made Demonstrates that they were part of a discussion about speculation in the media and inaccurate media coverage So they were actually talking about the case itself and how you know how that happens where like how things become witch hunts that makes sense The media were criticized for their rush to judgment in on this case And sometimes blatantly suggesting that Condit was guilty of murder

There were reporters that were camped out in front of his Washington apartment who were quoted as saying that they would stay there until he resigned So that it was a legit with witch hunt against him that politicians They like the fact that people like I hope for both of us and never in our lives Do we have the experience of having reporters camped outside of our fucking house, dude negative or positive? Well, also because they can just take any little seed of anything or one person walking by and going oh, I knew her Yeah, I mean anything could spin in any direction They could go through your trash and find like a thing that points to this thing as evidence. Sure

Yeah, it's crazy there and there was um in the summer of 2008 the Washington Post ran a 13 part series I didn't read it. I Can't read of It's an unlucky amount of parts Which was quote a tale of tabloid and mainstream press pack journalism that helped derail this investigation So it was basically all about that how it just was a totally tried in the media and meanwhile the cops were kind of like Didn't know necessarily what to do or what was going on and didn't have a lot to go on Well, they probably followed along the media as well. And so it misled them for sure. They got a suede

Newsweek magazine stated that the media may have become more skeptical of herd mentality and open to alternative suspects After the levy case happened that basically that changed the way people reported and reacted like the journalism reacted to cases and I wait in a positive way or about I think in a positive way of just being aware that that's what they Would do that they if for the story you're affecting the actual outcome and yeah person gonna get that they basically were like Oh, they were having an affair and in implying that he killed her, right? So anyway, it was a cold case until 2006 And then there was a new DC police chief a woman named Kathy Laney or I'm assuming is how you pronounce it And she replaced the lead detective on the case with three veteran investigators who had homicide experience. Yeah

So who did you assign? Who did that original guy assign the first place? What? Yeah, are you doing? Also, it made me reading that made me go did Gary Condon have some kind of power over that first Group of guys to be like, how about you don't? How about you're not very accurate in your investigation of this? I mean, it's just a possibility Well, this is I want to hear who you think did it because that if he didn't and that's then why would he do that? Go ahead. So here we go. I'll try to plow through this So in 2007 the editors of the Washington Post assigned a new team of reporters to re-examine the case and There was a series of articles put up published in the summer of 2008 that focused on the failure the police to fully investigate

Guadaniq's connection to the attacks in Rock Creek Park. So they had basically just seen that that guy had done that When that when it turned out that that guy's story was this guy did it and Gary Condon paid him to do it and that turned out to be a lie They were like, all right. Well, I guess we have no one. Yeah, instead of all the guy that's attacking women and raping women in Rock Creek Park They don't look at him. That's insane. So into in September 2008 Which I love this because the investigators, it's like so journalists are the one pushing this forward. They're fucking up They're also making good. Yeah at the same time to different people Investigators searched

Guadaniq's federal prison cell in California and they found a photo of Shonda Levy that he had saved from a magazine So They finally arrested him Uh, they finally arrested him in March of 2009 and Uh, he was indicted by a grand jury for kidnapping first-degree murder committed during a kidnapping Attempted first-degree sexual abuse first-degree murder committed during sexual offense attempted robbery first-degree murder committed during a robbery And he pled not guilty to everything

um In the trial Shonda Levy's father testified that he intentionally pointed the investigators to gary condit He said that he told authorities during the early years of the investigation His daughter would have been too cautious to jog in the woods alone But he said that no that he no longer believed that to be true. So the father like Sick him. He like fucking pointed the finger and kind of

By his own admission, but see here's the thing so It's his own admission that he kind of saying he misled the cops But at the same so here's the whole paragraph on it He said he also said told police that his daughter and condit had a five-year plan between them to get married In retrospect Robert Levy admitted. I just said whatever came to mind just to point to him as the villain Levy added that he had been convinced the condit was guilty until we learned about this character here Yeah referring to Guadaniq. I mean that makes sense because like if you're

Like if you know that your best friend's boyfriend was a fucking abusive Whatever and she now turns up dead You can say something like well once she told me she was afraid that he was gonna get that he was gonna kill her Right, you slip that little thing in there and it makes the case for him. Yep But this that wasn't true. Yeah, that wasn't the case right, but it wasn't him. That's why you don't do that Obviously, I mean, yeah, but it but it makes sense why you would yeah it's totally um So gary condit when he testified in this trial would not answer the question

Were you having an affair with shawnder levy wouldn't answer the question said it would it would um, it would violate Shawnder's privacy and his privacy. Well, then the defense of course comes back with a pair of underwear With gary condit's dna on it and says Pretty much have proof because they collected him from her apartment when the cops in its evidence Um, and basically say hey, yeah, you did so you don't have to say it because I think you should just be fucking honest He absolutely should but he's you know, I don't I think he Whatever um, so then the prosecution calls the two women wad meek raped while they were jogging in rock creek creek park

And one testified that he grabbed her from behind dragged her down a ravine Held the knife against her face and raped her Um, which is you know shawnder's remains were found down early. So anyway, this guy's gets found guilty um And this made me think of you because they said that god meek said to leave his family during the sentencing I'm sorry for what happened to your daughter, but insisted he was innocent and susan levy the mother Said to him Do did you really take her life? Look me in my eyes and tell me which is your thing of like just admit it just admit it

um He was found guilty sentenced to 60 years in prison. Wow. So at that point condit's lawyer burt fields remarked It's a complete vindication But that comes a little late who gives him his career back and condit retired from politics Moved with his wife to phoenix the wife stayed with him If you're a fucking wife of a senator, you've got to be a little bit Yeah ahead, you know, yeah, you got it. You're you're playing the big game You're not gonna just run at the first dead paid intern

This is it. I'm sorry This is bigger picture stuff. So they moved to phoenix. This is the most depressing paragraph. I've ever read off of wikipedia They moved to phoenix to manage real estate and open two baskin robbins franchises, which have since closed Okay, but then remember that baskin robbins was one of the things that she searched on her computer uh-huh um Well, guess what now they've asked for a retrial for this guy because they're saying everything

All the evidence against this guy It does not match up to her murderer Which I know I normally I'm sure this is just me being tabloid-y myself, but uh He was attacking people and robbing them and one woman he raped But he wasn't yet a murderer. So it's not like she was the sixth Body that they found, you know, yeah, but you know one person fights a little harder True you get you're already was he already caught for the two rapes

When he attacked her. Yeah, like just a standard escalation. So yeah, so don't the the way to not get Uh tried for rape when someone can ID you is to murder them to murder them That's right. Well on june 3rd 2015 the defense said a new witness a neighbor called 911 at 4 37 am on the last day Levy was reported to be alive to report that she heard a blood curdling scream Possibly coming from levy's apartment. Oh, and why didn't that come into the fucking play, right? And because that's it's a 911 call you can just go look it up. Yeah, but they never the cops didn't find that person They didn't look that hard. So for the person Reported it and it got blown off. So they were like must not they must have more information than me. Yeah

well, and the thing is That kind of maybe leads to the direction of that she wasn't attacked while she was jogging and murdered in that ravine She was murdered in her apartment and her body was dumped in that ravine after the cops look sure Uh, which would kind of make a little bit more sense. I mean, who knows who knows? I just this is another case of the most obvious answer is usually the correct answer There's a rapist in that park. Yes It's most likely him. Yeah, but they are uh

The defense attorneys have requested um Gary Condits bank telephone and credit card records as well as any records from mr. Condits gym from around the time of the disappearance um And they're looking for the gym. I don't know but they must know something specific. Yeah, which is why I was like, huh So they're basically Going way harder into Searching content as a suspect, which I bet you they didn't do they were

They were trying not to before right as being good dc cops. They're just like it's the actual Yeah, congressman. Is it is he congressman or senator congressman? Um, did I say senator throughout this? I did I? Accuracy we're not known for it Looking for turtles ladies and gentlemen. So anyway, this guy's going to get a new trial In on in october of this year. Yeah, that poor family. Yeah, it's it's pretty terrible. Oh and also they they have um Um, uh, they're asking for notes from law enforcement interviews from former congressman Richard army of texas and john do little of california Because they are individuals condit said he was meeting with on one of the important days

In question So they're basically going back over and picking his shit apart To make sure I think to make sure you know what the best fucking who the best witnesses are Our fucking ex-girlfriends That's right. So he's probably got a few of those. Oh, there was definitely there was one in that article that was like a Basically a air hostess a stewardess or whatever that he told not to talk to the cops Yeah, I mean, I guess he would do that. I he had a lot of stuff to be exposed. I think but Uh, that's like that's a good one. That's a cold case. I would really really like to know that the real

Story, that's a deeper one. Then it seems at first Because they're opening it back up like something actually may come of it. That's crazy that they're opening it back up I mean that makes me sad because what if it really was him? And he gets he gets off Yeah, and then condit doesn't get Tried because they don't have enough evidence and so nobody So this guy spent, you know Six years in prison. Yeah, and that's it. I know it's it's crazy. I know also

It's that thing of like they're they're this is also one of the ways affairs can end It's not just like, oh, you could blow up your whole life. Yeah, you could also get Like shashank redemption style Railroaded into going to jail Because I remember shawndra levy is just any time she would come on the news. I'd just be like Oh, there it's that like it's the dirty girl in the and the case of the affair Like you don't think about oh, she's a victim or whatever It's just like I mean take away that one little piece that that she's boning a dude who's married

And it's just this really tragic. I mean she's this um ambitious intelligent woman Who's starting to make a career for herself? She makes a bad decision by sleeping with this married man as people fucking do in dc It seems like sure she goes for a jog before she goes home to graduate and gets murdered. It's as simple as that Yeah, it's a bummer dude or is it? Or or was she there when somewhere she heard something?

She wasn't supposed to hear because he is a congressman Wasn't there a while where they were like she might have been pregnant and he killed her because she was pregnant But I don't think she didn't well, maybe they couldn't tell she was pregnant But I think they can tell that didn't come up here But there was a there there's a very similar story and I can't remember the woman's name But it was like a super it was on forensic files and like a couple of those other ones And it was basically the same story, but the girl was I think she was Irish Catholic Do you remember that one and her and she got they found her body wrapped up in a rug

And then it turned out to be her boyfriend who was this really powerful businessman in um I can't remember if it was dc or boston or something So they do a dna test on the fetus and it matched him. I think so that sounds I mean that sounds correct What are you even doing right now? No, it's just like any murder at any any murder I've ever seen We are getting deep remember that girl that had curly hair Anyway, that's mine. That's a good one. Good job. Thank you That was fun. That was fun. That was a wild ride. Yeah Um, all right my favorite murder. Yes a seamless favorite murder

Sylvia Marie Likens Hmm This one I hadn't heard about until we started the podcast and I fucking went on a rabbit hole I'll click click click bait on the facebook group. Nice And it's fucking tragic get ready because it's depressing. Okay um, so Syl Sylvia Marie Likens was born January 3rd 1949 vintage murders love them. Love it. She and she's from indianapolis

And essentially she was tortured to death by Gertrude bannasuski bannas bannasuski bannasuski bannasuski And and her children and other people from the neighborhood. I know this one. Fuck horrible So this is this took place. She got the girl Sylvia died in October 26 1965. So she was 16 years old um, so Likens Family moved frequently because her parents were carnival workers. The parents had financial difficulties So in 1965 no teeth probably. Yeah, so in 1965 the father lester likens arranged for his daughters

His two daughters to board with to board with Gertrude to live with her Gertrude was 37 um, and she was the mother of the a new friend of the two girls named paula who was 17 um, and she moved in with with Gertrude and paula and paula's six siblings Um lester said he didn't pry quote. He didn't want to pry into the conditions of the house He reported at the trial. Well done lester. I don't want to pry. That's how carnies are They're not going to put stick their nose in your business You're sending your kids and he encouraged Gertrude to quote straighten out his daughters great Even from all accounts. They seemed like nice girls even if they weren't

Um, and they were paying Gertrude 20 a week to care for her which I think the equivalent of like 150 now She's like cheap. Yeah So Gertrude described Gertrude was described as quote haggard underweight Asomatic suffering from depression and the stress of several failed marriages You got to see this woman this photo of her man. She is a fucking salty bitch Like there's definitely a shank in her purse kind of a person and she's a single lady

Uh single at this point with like I think there was six or seven six seven kids. Wow aging from Like 17 down to like 18 months Jesus. Yeah, so she could still get it seven children. Okay. I mean it's 37. That's two years older than I am And she was a fucking salty old woman and like the photos man these eyebrows or something else Uh pre waxing days. Oh just she she just shaved them off and drew them on. Oh, those are the scary ones. Yeah, this chick is I would not want to meet her in an anywhere Even a light alley. Yeah um

So She began so when they moved in um Gertrude started taking her anger out which apparently there was a lot of it on the lichens girls and they soon focused exclusively on sylvia So accusing her of petty crimes. Um the daughter paula who was pregnant at the time Kicked lichens in the genitals and accused her of being pregnant and a slut which she wasn't wow and

The some of okay, I have to fucking warn everyone that some of this I'm not going to say all of it that this torture is like intense And awful and there's a photo of this girl and she just looks sweet and normal and it's awful So, um The lichens was accused by the family that she was spreading rumors about paula And so this provoked Stephanie's boyfriend coy hubbard, which like man, if that's not a fucking petty thief's name I don't know what is um to physically attack lichens. So this girl is getting tortured by

the mother Her daughter all the kids the local teens like boyfriends It's like a hobby for them at this point She incurred the Gertrude encouraged the kids and the neighborhood kids to torment lichens Some of her stuff I don't want to talk about but they said that by the time of her death She had over a hundred cigarette cigarettes on her body Um, it's really fucking brutal And it's in creepy sexual stuff

Sadists, I mean, it's fucking sadists have sexual stuff for humiliation not for Legitimate sexual reasons, right, you know to break this poor girl's spirit And just because they can right like just basically They're all a little bit fucked up and clearly, you know, and it escalates and It's becomes I feel like it comes fun for them. Yeah Yeah, it's not like Stanford Prison Experiment where you have one person that's your Prisoner and suddenly it brings out all the like you don't see them as a human anymore. Yeah, it feels like The kid Paula once hit her so hard in the face that she broke her own wrist

Fuck this is like it breaks my heart and it makes me want to become a foster parent so much more because man These some of these some people's fucking living situations are just insane insane So the sister little sister attempted to contact the family um Even the sister who older sister and she visited the home and learned of the abuse but Learned of the abuse but did not call the police or remove her sister from the phone There was a couple people who were like, yeah, I saw some weird shit

But I never called, you know, I never called the cops. I never called anyone I didn't want to pry Also, that was back when you could like open hand slap other people's kids Right like it wasn't that big of a deal to get punched if you were being bad Yeah, and if an adult said a kid was bad that was the end of the story. Yeah, that's very true. Yeah, so the parents didn't didn't interfere Let's see. She's the girl so she stopped going to school and Um, she was locked in the cellar. Fuck so shortly before her death. Okay. This is

So Shortly before her death Gertrude carved the words I am prostitute and proud of it on lichens abdomen with a heated kneel Whoa And a couple other things happened. It's fucking so tragic. I'm sorry if I'm bumming everyone out. It's so bad right now That's that's what we're here for so on october 25th 1965 the day before she died lichens tried to escape After overhearing Gertrude's plan to blindfold her and dump her body in the forest Um, but she got caught so on the 26th after multiple beatings burnings and scalding baths like it's died of a brain hemorrhage Shock and malnutrition. Holy shit at 16 years old

And then when she realized she was dead Gertrude Like they they did this crazy thing where they called the police and Gertrude had forced Had forced Sylvia to write a letter saying, you know She had had sex with a bunch of boys and exchange for money and that they had dragged her away And basically they had beaten her and it was there if they had like she made her write a letter saying that this is what happened to her So before the police officers left the house like, okay, that's what happened You know Jenny the little sister approached them and said get me out of here and I'll tell you everything Oh, thank god. She finally got some balls. Yeah the whole time it makes you wonder like

Why didn't someone tell someone a teacher or yeah But if it's if you have to think if she's the salty old broad that's like there with all those kids They were probably like the bad family of the town. Yeah I bet you there wasn't a lot of interaction or people coming in and out of that house and it's this thing of like you You listen to authority back then. Yeah Someone who was an older an older person who was in charge was the authority and you didn't question that And you didn't none these things didn't happen like this would just if you someone told you this was happening You'd be like that's disgusting. Yeah, don't ever say that again

It's not happening and you probably deserve to get slapped in the face because you were being bad. Yep, whatever Okay, so during the trial Gertrude denied being responsible for the death. She pled not guilty by reason of insanity um And for the minors who took part in the abuse were also put on trial So Paula the older daughter John the younger son Richard Hobbs who was like a family friend and good old Coy Hubbard It was 15 and doing some insane stuff to her that I don't want to talk about um In his closing statement Gertrude's lawyer said

I condemn her for being a murderous But I say she's not responsible because she's not all here tapping himself on the tapping on the head She's not all here. She's not responsible. That was supposed to be a better voice, but I liked it. It was old-fashioned. I was trying Yeah, so on May in May 1966 Gertrude was convicted of first-degree murder She was spared the death penalty and was sentenced to life in prison, but of course She didn't get life in prison because she was free on parole by 1985 having been a model prisoner And she said the lord has forgiven me and I have peace inside. That's nice. You fucking yeah That's the priority is how you feel. Yeah, the lord monster totally forgave you and you have peace. That's great

Jesus loved what you did to that girl. You get a move on with your fucking life, but you know who doesn't the girl you killed But she's haunting your basement. Yeah five years later. She died of what I can only hope was painful lung cancer Everyone else totally got out of prison and they became teachers and no, yeah, and uh, yeah The boys were sentenced to two to 21 years and were released in three You guys should everyone should go if you feel like murdering you should because you're just fucking not gonna get punished for it at all I it bothers me so much. I hope that someday in this podcast we can either a solve a murder or b change

Change sentencing laws Can we do that Karen? Yes. I think this podcast has just enough influence and span To really get out there. Well, I mean that is so crazy to think that one of those people that tortured a young girl became a teacher Yeah To be in charge of young girls and boys that doesn't even make sense It doesn't it boggles the mind and it the thing about all of this shit is that you can't keep convincing yourself that The world is a fair and just place

And who's trying to convince themselves people who aren't into true crime? Oh, well, that's their problem and they're not listening anyway. Yeah, they don't want to know Whereas like people like us are so aware and so incensed by How fucked up this world is how what city did that happen in? Indianapolis, which is like do people still live there?

And the midwest. Yeah, I also I wonder if it's that thing of like the midwestern thing of people keeping to themselves Being private and not being nosy is a big thing. I mean the dad didn't want to pry into the where his I want to know the stories of like where they on drugs or where they totals like Gutter drunk alcoholics. You don't just give your children away. I'm sure they were alcoholics Yeah, if they're worked at a carnival for god's sake, I think it said that he had alcohol problems And then the parents like hated each other and I think they divorced and so he was like take You know the the sons there was like three sons in the family in the lichens family and they got sent to live with grandma but the girls

Go fend for yourselves rough Oh, yeah, and were they locked up early? Like why didn't they run away? I know that's that's another thing in my mind is like It would be so much better off living on the streets Wait, isn't there a movie with ellen page about this story? I think there is I'm almost positive it came out Over five years ago, but I think there is I could see her paint playing that part But most people didn't talk about it because it's so fucking dark. It's It's so there's no

There's no silver lining. No, it goes straight it goes straight down into hell It's just one hopes that jenny lichens a little sister had an okay life, but could she have probably not I don't know unless she's one of those people that like became like a victims rights advocate That's that happens a lot to people. That's true because that's crazy. Also. It was the it was the mid 60s So this was before there was ever a way there was awareness about child abuse or anything like that Yeah, that was but it was right on the edge like what you're describing if it was 1925 I'd be like, oh, okay But it's so much later than that. Well, I mean, yeah, look at spankings It's spanking someday people are gonna be like that is abuse straight up abuse

But I mean, I feel like up until recently it was like, yeah, that's how you punish your kids Well, and also up until recently they didn't think what kind of a teacher wants to spank children Yeah, like that's that it needs to turn around where it's like it's not about these kids behavioral problems It's about an adult in this position who's signed up to be a teacher who's signed up to be around children And can't handle themselves around children and reinforcing Bad behavior in children and letting them know that the the answer to The answer to a problem is physical violence. Yeah, and the person who's supposed to be taken care of you You

Loses their mind and will will hurt you To teach you a lesson also just that cut the capacity of human beings to To be total sadists and like if you if you bring some kids around and go you can beat her up if you want to Yes, they're gonna do it. Yeah, which is disgusting. Yeah, and these are probably all children from You know bad backgrounds as well Well, so they don't have compassion and they weren't shown Compassion by their fucking alcoholic parents probably and that's there. It's a learned fucking behavior Dark so it's rough

Do you want to hear something that might lighten you up care it's it's not gonna lighten it up, but it's it's definitely gonna make you Uh It's just enjoy already listen. It's just enjoyable. Well. I was there when she recorded it. Oh cool Um, so our friend Cara clink Hilarious stand-up comic Performer. Yeah, I went and did her podcast which is called sisters with Carmen Lynn. She was another stand-up comic I know and uh At the end of that she started talking about

um How much she loves true crime and then She said but she thought she was gonna be a guest and I was like no, we don't have guests. Yeah, that's what I said too We don't want anyone. Um But I was like, but I want to hear your hometown murder. So here's Cara clink's hometown murder Okay, so this is not quite a hometown thing, but I did go to college an hour and 15 minutes from my hometown In connecticut and I went to college with a girl whose husband mysteriously disappeared from their honeymoon cruise uh, they were uh on this cruise together and the

I think the saddest part of the story usually when I tell it is that That if they hadn't gotten so blacked out balls to the wall wasted this probably never would have happened Because they got really drunk. They separated. They were rumors. They were like hanging out with these Czech teenagers or something like that I don't know what they were doing probably just partying with them uh, and they got separated and Another girl on the boat took a picture of a huge blood splatter staying on the on the deck of the ship Which is on this big date line. There's a whole date line report on this and uh and

So it was obviously something happened, but his body was never recovered They were in the middle of I believe the Caribbean or the Mediterranean like obviously he was shark bait Like they probably weren't going to find anything But um, she was you know on the talk show circuit on with like opera and like scarborough country and all these shows And I think people found that she did not appear to be a sympathetic enough wife like she wasn't Balling crying. She wasn't people thought maybe she married him for you know, it's like everybody's imagination takes him off But like uh, I don't think he had a ton of money to speak of so it wasn't like an insurance killing that

I don't really actually knowing her. I really don't think she had anything to do with um this disappearance slash murder um, but But it was pretty scandalous and I was actually on date line when they when they were investigating it I was working at mbc One of my friends worked at date line and was like does anybody here go to this college in cannecan? I was like, oh, I went there and they were like, do you know this girl who's husband disappear? I was like, yeah, we played softball the average is like, oh my god. They really want to interview you on date I was like, okay

Like do I get to be on tv? I'm in like I was all in and then I went on and I just sort of Have talked generally about her and it was so embarrassing because first of all, I thought they were gonna do my hair and makeup They don't do that and second of all, they like took a bunch of b-roll of me like walking downstairs slowly And they took an old picture of me and my softball team that this girl is in Where my eyes are closed and I'm maybe the fattest I've ever been in my entire life And I was like just don't focus on my face and date line was like, oh, we gonna focus on your face And they went right to my face after that and then went to her face So, you know, I wasn't super happy with Dayline's production, but it was a really it's a really crazy sort of unsolved case that

Is also interesting because his parents and I believe Jen the girl he was married to who I knew Were going trying to take on the cruise line because those if I don't know anyone that's been on a cruise like There's cameras everywhere and they acted like they had nothing on tape of like where this guy was or what happened or anything Like how did this blood splatter stain get like this? It was a huge stain on the deck and it's just Very scandalous that they won't Like kind of let this information out because people think they're scared about getting sued or whatever So I know that they've made a lifetime movie about it. I know there's a date line about it. You can search into it more Uh, the date line if you want to google kara clank and few clues found in honeymoon disappearance will take you right to the link

Because it's a very scary google result for myself Wow That I totally know everything I totally know everything she's talking about I've seen the blood stain Blood splatter stain. I've seen the lifetime movie Oh, and then she showed me the clip of the date line that she was on and it's hilarious because it's one of those things where it Literally does it's her softball team like her intramural softball team So they go in on close on her and literally her eyes are closed. She weighs 40 pounds heavier than she is now and she and she it's just like if you showed up to play softball

How you'd look and then it pans over to the girl and the girls completely She said the girls was decked out of makeup. No matter what sport she was playing on what full face of makeup always and curled hair Clearly the the wife has nothing to do with this But I remember I mean they got Shmammered and then separated What would she yes, how would she make him bleed that much? He got in a fight with someone. They beat him up. They threw him over. Yeah, those check teens on the date line thing I saw which I don't know if it was the same one or whatever

Uh They completely suspect them of Uh trying to get money out of him or I there was something that they did and they were like it's them basically I mean, but she wasn't around like why did they split up? That's the weird thing. Yeah, I mean one would think that on their honeymoon. They'd stick together But you just never know who knows maybe she was like fuck you. I don't want to do coke Yeah, or she could have been like I need to go get some waffles. Yeah, and then like we'll meet back up. Who knows Oh fuck fuck going on a cruise man. You couldn't you couldn't pay me enough to get Ebola on a cruise

There's a lot of minuses. I mean crazy shit happens and you're like out in International waters like nothing no one can help you. That's a huge nope. Yeah. Yeah, no thanks. Yes, I have My parents met on a cruise. My dad was a person and my mom was a nurse on That's the cutest thing I've ever cruises. Yeah, I didn't know that that is so adorable. We're cruise people I I appreciate family to cruise but like being alone with a my husband. I wouldn't do that No, we went on for my mom's I think it was her 60th birthday. We we went on a cruise and it was just really boring I mean it was gorgeous. It was to Alaska. So it was gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous

We got to see cool stuff, but you're stuck on a boat with like semi-ok like airplane food Yeah, it was fun. Everything was just fine. Yeah, you know It was weird pass. I mean Um, well if you've got a home town story, we want to know about it We do we're gonna do a mini so we keep saying that but we really are going to so please send us yours um So we can uh, so we can talk about it. It's uh, my favorite murder at gmail. That's right. Um and look out for the t-shirts they're coming soon

and rate review and subscribe please on itunes for those Ratings we're on that comedy chart, man. Yeah, we feel good. Someone said they saw us on the top 10 No way. That's what someone said to me But I didn't look it up because I was like, oh my god, and also then Whatever, I'm gonna I'm gonna hold that as fact. You know what? I think we're number one Uh, thank you guys for listening. Yeah, and thank you for your support. You're great listeners. Yeah, so much fun Let's come here. This is our tagline now, right? And are you okay with this?

Yeah, okay, so you do your part and I'll do my part All right, you guys stay sexy. Don't get murdered Elvis. Do you want a cookie? a cookie Bye