My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 17 - Episode SE7ENteen

Episode Date: May 19, 2016

This week's favorite murders include the killing of 13 year old Jennifer Moore in Novato, CA, and the murder-suicide of pro-wrestler Chris Benoit and his family. Plus tons of personal stories, shit talking, staying sexy, and not getting murdered.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I guess I was just trying to clear a channel for this episode. Get ready for what was to come, the right of your life. Get ready for a roller coaster of emotion. Are you ready? I'm ready. Let's do episode 17 of my favorite murder, starring George Hartstark and Karen Kilgara. Hi everybody. Hi, here we are.

Hi. Hi. Welcome if you've just started. Hi, what's going on? Hey, how are you? How are you guys? Why do you like murder so much? What's up with you?

Did you see something weird as an eight-year-old? Or have you always had a weird feeling inside? Can you talk to anyone else in your life about it? Is this why you're here? Is that nobody else is interested and you're a freak? Yeah, because that's why we're here. Hey. So good.

Good. So here we are. Good on you. That was the intro. Yeah. These are getting better, I think. I feel like. I think they're getting very strong.

I think we're professionals now. People are like, I just started, I hit play on this podcast, but now I don't know what's happening. Yeah. I'm not sure if it actually started. People are just talking at each other. Are you, I feel a little pressure, do you? Yeah.

Oh yeah, because guys, our ratings went through the roof. Our ratings just blew. I mean, let's just say it. Let's just say it. We think that there is a computer hacker that's gone onto iTunes and hacked us into number one. And clearly they love us for some reason, this hacker. If Andrew Salmson, if this is you, thank you, my friend.

You're a good person. It's insane. We're number one on the iTunes comedy podcast list. Yeah. Like our, not our picture, but our logo. It's so exciting. Yeah. It's super cool.

And we do want to thank Jack O'Brien, who is the host of the Cracked podcast that can't be a coincidence that that thing got posted and then suddenly all kinds of people were like, Hey, I just discovered your podcast. So thanks, Jack. You're the best. Yeah. And easy on the eyes. Pretty cute.

But he's married. Dimples. Calm down. Everybody's married. Yeah. Everyone. Chill. But that, yeah.

It was super fun to be on the podcast. It was so much fun. He was great. Yeah. This is all like, this is all insane. I feel like. It's weird that we had an idea to party. You had the gumption to actually make me do it and then something like that would happen.

I do that. I make people do stuff a lot. It's good. It's good. Otherwise I'll just fall into a deep, dark depression. Yeah. Same here. I'll go into my TV room, close the curtains like Morticia Adams and then watch British

procedurals until I die of old age. This is why my, my blinds that you see right here, my drapes are, are sheer because otherwise it's just depression though. Yeah. Oh, that's true. I mean, because when you can't be in the complete dark, you can't be in the complete dark. Are you telling me we need to go to Ikea and get some new curtains for my TV room?

We are absolutely saying that I'm going to burn those curtains. I have straight up hotel blackout curtains in my TV room. I have that in my bedroom, but not, but in here it's like, I, I'll get depressed. Yeah. Although I think you cured my depression. I know it's very helpful. All at the same time, I don't, I have this thing where dusk makes me really fucking depressed.

Dust? Dusk. Oh yes. Yeah. It's just reminds me of being a kid. Sucks. That's what everyone knows. Being home alone and being like, do I make my own dinner?

I'm only nine. I don't, I'm not going to eat anything cause it's too depressing to eat alone. Oh, I have the opposite reaction. That's funny. I was like, I can make toast. I'll make a whole loaf of toast. Cheese toast, man. Comforts you.

Comforts you. It's like a, yeah, kid recipes, like crackers with butter on them. How gross is that? What about, did you ever melt, melt butter mixed in brown sugar and vanilla and just eat that out of a cup? Never done that. It's, let me just tell you, it's fucking. It's called a poor man's chocolate chip cookie.

It's fucking delicious. You're basically taking everything good in chocolate chip cookies and none of the bullshit. Nope. Fuck baking soda. Totally. Eggs. Who needs you? Go away chickens.

I'm just going to eat the good stuff. I love that. Wait, did you include, incorporate any chocolate chips in there? No. I don't think we ever had. We had very little food when I was a kid in my house at all times. So it was like, what do I have on hand? I'm going to wrap a slice of turkey around a pickle spear and that's dinner.

Totally. I do have a very early memory of drinking cough syrup one time just and jumping on the bed. I was doing that afternoon by myself. It's cool that you knew that cough syrup drinking would be fun. Yeah. I don't think, if I had known that, I would have been. I mean, if there's ever a sign that a child is going to be an alcoholic for sure.

That was it. That was like the Tom Hanks episode of family, was it not family matters? Family ties. Yeah. Family ties. All right. When he drinks maraschino cherry liquid shit. Right.

What's happening? He wants to open, cut open a tea leaf, a tea bag, pour the tea leafs, wow, into a little bit of paper towel, rolled it up like a joint because I wanted to see what it was like to smoke cigarettes. I think it was like 10. And I smoked that in front of a mirror to see how cool I looked. Did you look so cool? I know.

Did you barf from that? Basically lit on fire. Yeah. You know. Yeah. I would imagine that would go up pretty easily. My point is, don't let your kids be latchkey kids. Well, one time my mom was home, she was just on the phone and when she got on the horn,

she would be on it for like an hour and a half. And I just lit the bed on fire in the back. I was playing with matches and I was just like, it was like strike a match, watch the flame go up, hold it until it got down to my fingers. Done it a million times. Drop it on the bed. Because I was like five. So I was just like, well, I'm done with that.

Drop it on the bed. And this is the 80s. So they're the most flammable. Everything is so polyester. They like spray extra flammable on everything. This is when they were trying to light children on fire any way possible. Yeah. I'm pretty sure what the top layer was an electric blanket, which is also the most flammable

thing of all time. And so basically I started a fire and it got into a like, say a one foot ring of fire in the middle of the bed. And I went out to tell my mom, there's a fire on the bed and she, I was like, walked up to her and she waived me. Oh my God. I'll never forget, she's on the phone with the crazy long cord. It was mustard yellow.

She was walking around the kitchen doing stuff. And I would literally was like, imagine a five year old me with my finger up. Pardon me, ma'am. And she was like out of here. And then so I went back and checked it and that was a three foot ring. Are you serious? Yeah. And then that time I was like, mom, and she's like, honey, I told you I did it.

And then I was like, the bed's on fire. Oh my God. That is so cool. And then suddenly I had a bad reputation in my family. Oh, I'm the asshole. Well, who has a number one fucking murder podcast now? This is the ultimate revenge. Oh, that's hilarious.

Also our numbers are skyrocketing in Britain, the UK. Australia loves us. Those are going Latvia. I hear. Really? No, I made them. That's from my family. Is it for really?

So maybe maybe a bunch of hardstarks are listening. I'll be amazing. Yeah, Longford and Galway, Ireland heads up. That's where my people are from represent. Well, they ran us ran us out because we're Jews. So fuck off a lot. Oh, wait. They ran us out because we're Catholics.

I feel like we were made to have a podcast together. Yeah. Our ancestors wanted this for us. Our ancestors and our shitty little kid selves. I just want to mention someone on the Facebook page. If you are new to this podcast, we're all about that Facebook page. Join it and join in wonderful and sometimes quite frightening conversations that go on there.

Someone brought up the fact that we pitched out a very interesting and exciting 911 phone call identifier game that we also mentioned on the crack podcast, but we still haven't done. And there's some people who are pretty pissed. I explained that I'm very scared of 911 calls. They want us to do it anyway. So that might be that might be a good mini. I really want to.

Yeah, for sure. I really want to know if we can tell like it's just like the other the other yesterday I watched some videos of Ted Bundy being interviewed only to tell like see if I could tell if like if I hadn't met him, if I would have known, you know, and it's like the same thing that I don't want calls. I want to know if we want to play three calls by husbands reporting their wives dead. Two of them are legit. One of them, the husband killed her and we want to know if we can tell which one is the

one who killed her. So we have to listen to two real 911 calls of a man whose wife has just been killed. You know, when you say it like that through it, no, no, no, no, no, no, I guess everyone's been real playing very fast and loose about the idea of this game, quote unquote, called nightmare fuel. What about two? What about one is fake and one is real? That I can handle.

If we play at once because I have listened to these calls, I've watched plenty of forensic files or whatever, but they're just horrifying. I know. Even when they're fake, I think they might even be more horrifying when they're fake because it's embarrassing. How about we don't do it? Let's pitch a ton of great games that people love the idea of and never do. Why doesn't someone play the game with the Facebook followers and that can be on them?

That's a good idea. And then report back how scarred you are once you're done. How scarred you are and what percentage of people know. It's interesting that you bring up that Ted Bundy interview, though, because I, as well as a couple of people who are listening and have been talking about it and rereading The Stranger Beside Me, the Ann Rule Classic, who is a crime writer who worked with Ted Bundy on what was basically a suicide hotline in Seattle in the 70s. Like, can you get more classic than that?

I mean, talk about she was meant to write that book and meant to do that. But they, the part I'm on right now, he went to this park in, I believe it wasn't like the outer part of Seattle and this really awesome like lake park. I can't remember what it was called. Sorry. And he approached six different women that day to help him with his boat that wasn't actually there. Holy shit.

Can you help me with my boat? Then he gets into the car and then he says, oh, actually the boat's at home. Sorry. I didn't explain that. And he got, that's where he got at least one girl now I'm thinking he may have gotten two that day. Shit. I can't remember.

I just read this yesterday, but I keep reading it and then falling asleep out of, I think like I need to leave this, these facts and go into a dream world. But it just makes me think he must have been so low-key because he looked like he would wear a tennis outfit and he was really good looking and he was kind of tall, you know. Yeah, but here's the thing in the, in the interviews, he see, he won't make eye contact with the interviewer. He like, he'll go from long stretches of time, like looking down in a way and not looking up.

Yeah. He also has like some kind of weird jerky movements a little bit. So I'm wondering if he like, did he get those after he went to prison and after he killed a bunch of people? Or was he like that then? And would I even have cared? You know? Right.

Yeah. I mean, that's, that's interesting. Did he have like, it was like a tick almost or something? Yeah. And I'm like, that's creepy. But is it only because I know that's Ted Bundy? Right. He looks like someone my mom would have dated.

Yeah. He looks like, he looks like a guy that would be in like a Lipton tea commercial in the late 70s. Yeah. With like his pretty young wife. Yeah. They're, they're toasting the tea. They're rolling it up and smoking it in a.

They're smoking some tea together and having a good time. But it is, I, I bet you he was, I think the girls that paid attention were like, got, you know, like at first started talking to him and then kept on paying attention and like got into it, got, got that weird feeling. And of course, once they got to the car and like no boat, see later, I've got to get back to my friends. But as we've. Oh, sorry.

No, I think you're going to say what I was going to say. As we've said so many times, you couldn't be a fucking bitch back then. Like you were taught to be nice and friendly and he fucking prayed upon that. And he probably also was really good at like turning on the charm of a hundred percent. So he didn't have a twitch and he was seemed very nice. I bet the twitch came after he was incarcerated and he was just like, I'm going crazy. I bet that's what happened. I want to kill.

Would you, how badly would you have? Would you have wanted to interview him? Hmm. I don't know. I'm not sure about that because I like this story of what they do. I don't want to know that person or be near that person because ultimately they're, you know, a little bit of the devil. Yeah.

There's that, um, the Iceman interviews. Oh yeah. Documentary. And that guy just seems normal and likable. He's the guy who was at mobster hit man, but he was also like a family man. And he's just hundreds of people casually talking about doing it. Yeah. And he seemed, he had more charm to me and like likability, like, like, than Ted Bundy

did. I know. Well, I mean, he, but he's got to be a sociopath or he would have been eaten alive by guilt and remorse and shame and all that stuff. Right. But I don't think he ever killed women and children. So maybe it wasn't like, Ted Bundy enjoyed, yes, he sure did, like, got off on it. This guy was like, it was his job and he probably felt a little self-righteous in it of like,

well, they owe money or, you know, they wronged someone. Well, I mean, I support that. No, I don't. That's why mafia hits don't interest me because it's almost like a business transaction. Like you don't, don't deal with people who will kill you because they'll kill you. They tell you they're going to kill you. You borrow money from them. You don't pay it back.

They kill you. That's very, a history of killing you. Yeah. They're good with killing. It's somehow we still date men. Come on. Let's not do, let's not be those people. Let's fucking get in there.

No, we won't, I'm kidding. All the hit the ratings drop to, to zero. Oh, I see what this whole pocket. Oh, there. Feminists. Oh, Ghostbusters too. Here, here. Let's really quickly do some, what's the word, like, housekeeping, housekeeping.

Housekeeping. Thank you. Thank you. Housekeeping. If you're new at listening to this, I, Georgia, forget words regularly and Karen. And I Karen do as well. No, you remembered them for me. Oh, is that how you, I think that's how I see, okay.

So my favorite murder shirts, the first official shirts are up the shirts. We have them. They're so cute. It's the, it's the adorable drawing, the adorable murder drawing Karen and I are surrounded by a bunch of murder weapons says my favorite murder on it's done by Michael Ramstead who's like this fucking awesome artist. Yeah. I love that picture.

He let us buy it and it's so you can go to my favorite murder shirts.com slash collections. So my, just go to my favorite murder shirts.com and buy a shirt. It's only open. The shops can be open for like two weeks. So get on it. We'll probably sell more later, but I probably shouldn't say that. I should like, oh my God, a limited time only. Yeah, of course.

You have four hours. How was that? And you guys, all right, I'm just going to say one word. Patreon. Oh, yes. Yeah. How do we, I feel weird. No, we're doing it.

Okay. I mean, there's, it's a thing that people get to have. It's not our thing. It's people have the option of paying money for a podcast they like. Yeah. That's just something everybody does. Okay. Everyone I know does it.

Okay. Everyone with the podcast that has a bunch of listeners does it. Okay. It's patreon.com slash my favorite murder. Georgia set went up. We don't know what we're doing. We're still finding out. Yeah.

Um, but something's there. Yeah. If you want to be like, you know what? I like this. I'll get it. Here's a buck. Yeah. We figure if there's like a bunch of people listening, we might as well be like, oh, we're

a real podcast that does things real podcasts do. Yeah. And like I pay for music and movies and books on tape. Yeah. So if you feel like it, no pressure. Yeah. Let's, we don't have to feel guilty. Okay.

I won't. Okay. Bye. So anyways, that was the podcast. Thanks for listening. Bye. Bye, Steph. Bye.

Now it's become all housekeeping. Uh, in my, in my end of housekeeping, I just want to commit, I want to improve every episode. I want to be a better podcaster every time we do this. Okay. I really want to stop saying literally, I don't know why I say it so much. Don't make me say, I, you literally want to, I literally want to kill myself. It's that thing where when I hear other people do it, I roll my eyes internally of like,

how dumb are you? Then I listen back to those podcasts and I'm like, I am the girl I hate. No, but when you say it, I know you're talking, I hear you saying it. I don't think it's too much, but I hear it's with so, so much conviction. I think the same when I say, fuck, it's like, I mean it. You know, it's literally is my fuck. Yeah. It's like a way to express how passionate I feel about something.

I'm just going to work on my vocabulary. Okay. I don't want to say like as much anymore. Oh, good luck with that. Good luck with that. Good. Don't laugh at that. It was funny.

It was fast and funny. That's how I like it. Okay. Um, should we get to the, oh, sorry. One other thing. Go for it. I was really shitty about the cops that worked the Chandra Lee, Chandra Levy case last week. I was so, I did the thing I hate when I hear on other podcasts, which people, and it happens

a lot. I think it's just a natural effect of going through a case and being bummed out. I was so like armchair quarterback about like, and they didn't even find a clue at whatever. It was like easy for me to say I've never been a cop. The funniest part about it is half of my family are in the San Francisco police department. It's not like I am against cops or judge them or anything like that. It's something that a lot of people in my family do. Good men.

Smart men. So, um, yeah, when I listened back to that, I was like, Oh no, don't do that. It's for as someone who studies a lot as people, you and I study a lot of true crime. It's frustrating to see how slow a lot of the stuff is, but I think that we're not noticing. We're not understanding or paying attention to how much, um, how much is put into place so that innocent people, you know, don't, how many rules and regulations and restrictions and all these like, all this red tape, like even getting when, when they can't get a fucking search warrant and it's like, they, you should have been able to get a search warrant.

It's frustrating, but it's put into place for people like you and I so far in our lives who haven't committed murder. And also, yeah. So cops can't just come into your house whenever you want and be like, we kind of suspect you. Here's the paperwork. So it's frustrating when there's a lot of evidence that the person did it and or that there's something's going on and there needs to be like immediate action taken. Yeah.

But there's, you know. And also the more these stories you read, you know, which is, I know a hundred percent of the cops know this is every second count. So like the fact that things got delayed by weeks or months is like, makes you want to pull your hair out. But I think that's also a thing that's steadily been improving since that time. I mean, the more things like this happen, we need more renegade cops, like in the fucking, like the horrible cop in the show, the, the family that got canceled.

Oh, do you believe our ringing endorsement of that show that immediately gets canceled? That was hilarious. Poison. Yeah. Us? No. We're fucking, we're changing the system. Should we do my favorite murders?

Oh, one more thing. Sorry. Housekeeping. This is how the whole show goes. I asked if we should do it. Karen mentions another, I just want to say, I just, we just found this out. We get to go to the LA podcast fest this year, which will be September 23rd to 25th at the Sofitel in Los Angeles across from the Beverly center, one of the greatest malls in this

town. I think it's, yeah, it's a prison. The Beverly center prison. I think Ally was just saying that on the other podcast that it looks, she thought it was a prison when she first moved to LA. That's hilarious. Yeah. Cause all those crazy levels of parking.

And it's just concrete. Cause so many prisons have Sephora's. But that's in September. We figure we tell you now, if you, you want to come cause they have a ton of great podcasts live, it's all live shows, all live. So you basically stay in the hotel. If you go to LApodfest.com that you can register and get a cheap hotel room now. And then everything takes place in the hotel.

I'm really excited. I've always wanted to do the LA podcast festival. I just didn't know how and you just made a call. Yeah. That's what I do. And I'm willing to use it for this podcast. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill?

I'm Candice DeLong and on my new podcast, killer psyche daily, I share a quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent and criminal profiler. On killer psyche daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton serial killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia and even

host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. All right, I swear to God I'm done this time. Literally done now. Literally, like, totally done. So the point of this podcast, if you're new, is that the title is My Favorite Murder and

Karen and I tell each other our favorite murders. Sometimes there's a theme, sometimes there's not. Today, absolutely no theme. No, thank you. No, thank you. I think it's your time to go first. Is it? Okay.

I think so. This is an interesting one that I'm really excited about. Okay. So, and I've been, okay, so a lot of people have found the podcast through my husband Vince's podcast, We Watch Wrestling, which is also on Ferrell. And a lot of ladies on the podcast or men have said, I listen to My Favorite Murder and you listen to We Watch Wrestling and sometimes I'm on, there's like an overlap and they get excited and it's silly.

Are you talking about cute couples that listen to the cute couples Georgia and Vince's different podcasts? Thank you. I mean, it's like you're the Prince William and Queen Vicki of, what's her name? Queen Vicki. I think it's Queen Vicki. Is it Queen Vicki and Prince William of England? Definitely Queen Vicki.

Hey, England, let us know if that's right. We just lost so many lists. We just lost Queen Vicki listening. She's like, like that bitch. All right. So there's this murder that he told me about when we started dating that I didn't know about because it's in the wrestling world and it's the murder suicide of and by Chris Benoit.

Wow. Have you heard of that? His name? Chris Benoit. How old is it? It happened in 2007. I think I did hear about it, but I know nothing about wrestling at all. Yeah.

And I didn't when I first met him. And now I know all this stuff. So it kind of makes sense to me. So I wanted to explain it because it's actually really fucking interesting and crazy and murder suicides are like, they're really interesting to me because it's like encapsulated in this home usually the horrors that go on in this little home where people have lived and been happy and feel safe. And it somehow degrades into this insanity.

Yeah. The only thing about this one is it the murder, it was the murder of his wife and his young son and it happened over the whole weekend. So he kills his wife Friday night, like lives in his house being like, what the fuck am I going to do? He let's start from the beginning. Sorry. But when we talk about that sometimes that anxiety, I feel like I've had that anxiety

of like after you kill somebody when you don't know, you're in a panic, but mine is about different stuff, like not when you murder, but it's almost like when you say like, when you talk about that and then I'm immediately like, Oh, I know how that feels. Or it's like, no, Karen, you have no idea how that feels. I guess you can, you can sympathize with being like, I had this one little freak out and did something that's unchangeable. And I wish, and if I could go back and take it back, I could and time isn't a flat circle. So why is a flat circle?

So why can't I go back and change it? Yeah. It's not hard enough or whatever. Nope. Yeah. And meanwhile you're just walking from room to room in a house that no longer looks familiar right. And you're, yeah, you're experiencing freakouts on the whole new level.

Yeah. And life doesn't feel real sometimes. So you would, one would think that you can change it and go back, but you can't. But just like when you send a bad text, sorry, that is permanently sent. Just like when you accidentally CC everyone in an email, it's the same thing, right? Exactly. That's why we always put a 48 hour hold on our social media exchanges, get, let the emotions pass.

Oh, that's smart. And then respond. Another good thing to do is write the response and send it to a friend. Oh yeah. Hold onto this for me. What does this look like to you? Total insanity? Yeah.

Good to know. Yeah. But then when you're in the moment, you're like, I don't want to know. I'm right. Oh my God. I know. Or just immediately like, go fuck yourself immediately. That was the right thing to do.

Yep. Then just stand by it, never drop that stance. Even if you know you're wrong. Yeah. Okay. So Chris Benoit was a Canadian professional wrestler. He had a 22 year career. He held 22 titles and he had the victory of the World Heavyweight Championship main event

match in WrestleMania. What are two X's next to each other? That's 20. Thank you. Or that's almost super dirty. Yeah. The third grade was a hard year for me. Couldn't concentrate?

No. Okay. That was just smoking too many. So many T-cigarettes. T-cigarettes. So I didn't even know about this guy, but he was huge. Like the rock. I don't think he was as big as the rock, which is a wrestler everyone knows, but he was pretty

big up there. He was widely respected by viewers and peers and people really liked this guy. He was a little weird and a little quiet and intense. Some people said he was intense, but that he was a nice guy, he had a lot of friends. But so it suggests that depression and brain damage accrued from numerous concussions that was contributed to him committing these awful crimes. The concussion thing is big. Well, we're going to get into that.

Okay. Yeah, it really is. And then you just hit play on the movie concussion. And we're just going to sit and listen to the whole thing. Listen to Will Smith do this accent and explain to you why concussions are bad. Is that a good movie? I've never seen it. Okay.

I don't want to watch that. I don't watch it if it wasn't Will Smith, because that guy is actually really fascinating. That doctor? Yeah. I watched it documentary with him and he's like, I bet it's actually a great movie. I just of all the things I have to do in my day sitting down to realize how basically they've subsidized subsidized damaging people's brains. It'll never stop happening.

There's too much money and it's a machine where people care more about making money than human beings. I just get really depressed. There's a period at the end. That's all true. Yeah. Well, here's the thing. One of his moves was the diving headbutt.

Oh, no. So he'd stand at the top of the turnbuckle when they climb up high and he would spread his arms out and just do a fucking fall headbutting the other guy on the canvas either in the back or elsewhere. So using his head basically as a weapon. Yep. But like free fall head. Jesus Christ.

So he had another signature move which will come back called the crippler cross face. And this is a submission hold where he would lock the opponent's arms behind him with his legs while pulling back on his neck. It's almost like a hardcore headlock but like on the face. And sometimes the move would even knock people unconscious. So we'll get back to that. Real unconscious. Not wrestling unconscious.

Real unconscious. So on June 25th, 2007, the police were called to Benoit's like incredible gated security hardcore mansion and they couldn't get in because of all the gating and stuff which they could have climbed over but there were two crazy doberman pinchers sorry German shepherds roaming the front lawn. Like this guy was hardcore security showing that he had a lot of paranoia but also was rich and famous. So yeah, but I bet a lot of people don't have like Nazi dogs totally you know on the property.

Yes. My home was in Fayetteville, Georgia but it was like an unincorporated part. So they had to get the next door neighbor Holly Schreifer who was a good friend of Nancy Benoit the wife and would sometimes take care of the dog. So she clopped on over the fence. She was part horse. She clipped and he clapped. She did it.

What's a horse maneuver? You know some dressage. She did a dressage right over the fence. It's a general part of making fun of her. No making light of murder. That's what we are just making a light of mistakes in our mouths. That's it. Yeah.

This Holly person sounds like a good person. So she got over she and then then she went into the house which are like civilian. Don't do that. Wait. Well the cops are waiting outside. She goes over the fence to open all the shit but she goes into the house so she sees everything first. Well she goes over the fence locks the dogs in the house in like a little spot.

And then is like I'm just going to do it once around because she can't get a hold of her friend Nancy. Holly let the cops do the once around do it once around. She finds the kid Daniel. So should I basically he did that crippler cross face on the kid. This little I think he was seven. There's reports that he had something called where did it go. He had a genetic syndrome called fragile X meaning he was met the criteria for autism.

It's inherited. It's a kind of it's like an intellectual disability but there's conflicting evidence of that. So I don't know if that's true. So what happened was this is all over the place isn't it. No no no. Oh you were just nodded your head and I thought you know I have I nod on my head so I don't picture Holly walking through the house and what she's seeing because that's the bummer.

So here's how it took place on Friday night. Ben Waugh kills his wife and he leaves her bound at the ankles and wrists. He covers her in a sheet and he leaves a Bible by her body is not going to work. I know died of asphyxiation had bruises on her back and stomach and he had been physically violent with her in the past. He had been abusive. Well because I also want to sorry but on top of concussions he's probably taking a bunch of steroids right.

Well yeah so they're both taking a ton of steroids. There's a ton of. The wife too? Yeah. There's a ton of marital discord. It's on again off again. They had just she had filed for divorce and then didn't go through with it. She leaves all the time.

He's possibly having an affair. There's like all these text messages between the two of them. I should say the book that I was reading about it is called Chris and Nancy by Irvin Muchnick. Muchnick? Muchnick. Mr. Muchnick. It's really good if you want to learn more about it in detail. Was she a wrestler too?

Yeah. No. She was like the hype man girl. You know the hot girls that come into the ring. Hold a big card over their head. That's no. That's boxing I think. She'd be his like his sidekick kind of like the woman and you know and actually hurt.

She was so interesting and gorgeous that her name at the time was just woman was her like handle. Yeah. That's how gorgeous she was. Yeah. That she was reduced. Yeah. To a one worthy.

All right. So she they got set up by her husband at the time in as like a you know to be like oh he's cheating with Benoit and then they ended up getting married. So it worked. Oh. So anyways. So. But it was a story.

It was a wrestling storyline that came true. Yeah. Okay. So their lives are a bit surreal anyway. Definitely. Okay. Definitely. So she let's see there was a pillow leaning against her head.

It sounds like what happened was they probably got in a big fight and it escalated and he killed her. The weird part to me is that he tied her up because that shows like premeditation to me. He didn't just like hit her so hard or get angry and strangle her. He tied her up and then killed her. I wonder because steroids it's like I took speed for a little while in the 90s to lose weight. Sure we all did.

And right. And it made me insane like just angry from the second I woke up in the morning. And if you're on steroids, which is it they're basically rage pills. Yeah. So it's two people on steroids. I'm sure that everything was intensified times a million. Yeah. Like and they're and they're reacting off each other.

But it's not there. There's not. It seems to me I would assume there's not one person going, Hey, let's relax for one second. Yeah. It's just everybody's going through the revolution and he was supposed to leave that weekend for another match and she just was so pissed that he was leaving all the time. They found the amount of pills that they ended up finding in the house is just incredible.

It's they found soma and hydro coating, which is a fucking heroin, right? Xanax and all these, you know, Ambien and and of course steroids. And he was actually exempt from the rule that you can't take steroids in the in in WWE because he had ruined his body so badly with steroids that he had couldn't make testosterone on his on his own anymore, so he had to take steroids to get testosterone. Oh, okay. So even though there's no, no, no steroid rule, he was, he was taking him medically. Yeah.

But that's so shady. Right. Like that's the, that's your solution for being fucked up on steroids is I'm such a bad coke addict that I need to take code. Right. Yeah. I've ruined my ability to just whatever anyways, all of the above. Yes.

So, so between the two killings about 3.30 p.m. on Saturday, it looks like he might have killed Daniel on Saturday, the next day. So he's hanging out in his house with his fucking wife in the office dead, not knowing what to do, calls his coworkers and is like, I can't make it. My wife and kid have food poisoning and they're really sick kind of tells everyone that so they won't call. Yeah. So Daniel, the kid was then suffocated in his own bedroom, a children's Bible was left

by his body and he had become kind of a religious fanatic at that point by reading. He was reading. In that weekend. Yeah. I mean, up until that's, you know, leading up to the murders, he killed a son with the chokehold. No bruises. And yeah, so he had needle marks in his arm suggesting he had been given growth hormones.

The son or the son, because he had, he was undersized because of this fragile X syndrome that he supposedly had, but I don't understand that completely. And I'm wondering if he gave him sedatives. Oh, so he could. So he could. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes.

That would almost be a tiny bit of a relief as hideous as that. I agree. And he think he, and I think in his mind, people have surmised that he was thinking, thought he was doing a mercy killing. Of course. He had killed the mom. Let's just fucking end this. And the same way that I think a lot of men who do the murder suicide shenanigans to their

family are like, I've lost all our money. I'm not going to make you live this way and kill the family. Right. Just fucking insane. We're good. We want to live as someone who could be your wife and kid. It sounds, it's twisted as some sort of noble move. It's total narcissism.

It's complete narcissism to think that they're an extension of you. And you get to make that call. Right. It's nuts. Right. And also everybody's in debt. Yeah. Relax about it.

Yeah. It's, it's complete. It's, it's them. It's him. It's the person not wanting them to find out what a fucking that he wasn't who they, he said he was. Right. Well, also this is classic drug brain too.

Like it's like, yeah. Let me get to it. So yeah. So it's fun. Okay. So he dies. This is how he kills himself. He dies of asphyxiation.

He was found hanging by the cord of a weight machine. So he goes down to the weight, the weight room. And he, um, he's sitting upright on a bench on like a weight, a weight bench facing the weight machine. So you can imagine like doing pull downs. What do they call them? I work out a lot. I, as you can see, he did like six reps of pull downs.

Right. Okay. He was shirtless. Um, his leg was extended. His right. But he blah. The black nylon weight machine cable was around his neck, a strip of white towel was underneath to keep the cable from cutting into the skin, which is like, you don't deserve that dude.

And he was, what's the point? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And he was being held in a sitting position by the cable. So I think what he does just like, let go of the weight and strangled himself. And it appears that he, he actually tried to maximize his own pain, which is so sad. It sounds like he, he knew he did something wrong.

Yeah. It doesn't sound like he was like, I'm going to murder suicide everyone. It was like, here's a mistake compounded with a mistake compounded with a mistake. God, it's terrible. Yeah. He's trapped. He's trapped in this horror. Yeah.

Show. Somalia's would like to note, I'd like to note that there was a bottle of dynamite vineyards 2000 Merlot next to the body. Why? I probably drank it. What's some, what's sick fuck Somalia's need to make that note? You asshole. Me?

No. I didn't really ask that. They didn't really request that Karen. This is the episode I turn on you for liking murder. You dick. Georgia. This is disgusting. Dare you.

Um, so let's talk about his brain damage. So after, after the murders and such, um, they, they was no pre pre-existing mental or physical ailments. He did have some depression, obviously, um, and where did my other notes go? Oh, they're at the printer. I left my fucking notes. Let's sing a little song about the printer. The printer notes.

Luckily, it's just right there. Printer. That's good. Um, we should kind of walk it off a little bit. Yeah. All right. So, uh, they've been searching for answers, the family, because it does not add up that this is the same man, this lovely man, right?

This family man, seven year old son, of course, down an an anabolic steroids. They thought that it was Royd rage, but it turns out that, um, my theory's wrong. It wasn't Royd rage. I mean, I'm sure there was some added to that. He Ben Ben was brain was that of an 86 year old Alzheimer's patient. Yeah. In the same way with football players who are constantly getting concussion after concussion. And I mean, there, there's a story in this book about how in one fight, he and this other

guy just banged each other's fucking heads into each other until they bled. That hurts so bad when you hit heads with another person. Yeah. Have you ever done that accidentally? No. Like you've both been down fast at the same time. Stephen knows what I'm talking about and you smack your head, it is loud and it hurts for like 20 minutes after.

And the idea that that's what he basically did for a living is, have you ever had a concussion? No, I did get flipped out of the back of a truck when I was in seventh grade. Remember when we could light fires in our room alone and sit in the back of trucks? Yes. This is the country life that I led. No, this is the 80s. Yeah. We already put them on notice.

Yes. That's for good fucking reason. Me and my friend, my dad was so livid because he told us don't drive that truck too far away. The brakes aren't great. We drove up into the national park, uphill, uphill, uphill, and as we're driving we can smell the brakes in the back, but it was our next-door neighbor, Andy, me, my sister, her friend Maureen, her friend Christine, and Andy's friend, I can't remember Andy's

friend's name, poor kid who was the one driving the truck. We start going down a hill through a campsite. Brakes go out. He literally is driving a truck with four girls in it with him and the brakes go out. He hits the back of Andy's car. Andy pulls forward. He tries to go over onto the side of the dirt embankment. He instead, he drives up onto the dirt embankment, flips the car.

Holy shit. Me and Holly, my best friend Holly Gardner was with me. We go flying out of the back of the truck. In midair, I remember very clearly thinking when I hit the ground, my skirt's going to fly up over onto my back and my underwear will be showing, so I have to make sure the second I hit the ground I have to stand up, and I literally hit and stood up immediately. Do you think that saved you? Yes.

For sure. Well, Holly fell too, but my mom was a nurse. She woke us up five times that night to check our eyes for concussion eyes. I just imagine a concussion, and maybe I've had one and I just don't remember it, but the wobbly brain, it's just, nothing feels right, and you don't even understand that you have a concussion. I don't think so. How did you get a concussion?

Maybe I didn't. Are you totally full of shit right now? No, maybe I've had a concussion, and that's why I don't remember anything. I think I was in a car accident when I was a kid and had one. Yeah, hit your head. Yeah. I don't know. But I was with a girl once who had one because she got clunked in the head with a softball.

We were like hanging out at night, and she starts crying and has to go to the hospital. It looks terrible. It seems terrible, but can you imagine having dozens over a 10-year span? Yeah. Yeah, and that just sidebar totally makes me want to point to OJ right now, because that's that thing of like, yes, in the beginning he was the American hero, but when you have a full career where that happens to you every day, practice, and in games, 50 times a week or whatever, your brain cannot, you don't remain the person that you started as.

It's still been an interesting thing recently that hockey players, like in the 70s, they put in, or maybe even like the 80s or 90s, like at some point they were like helmets have to be used. Yes. But if you've been playing before that, it was your choice if you wanted to wear a helmet. So everyone from then on had to wear a helmet if you got hired. But you might have been just too far gone where it's like, fuck it, you don't have to. If you own a motorcycle before 19, you know, you don't have to wear a helmet.

It's like, that was a lot. I really love hockey players so much because hockey is so graceful and beautiful and yet insanely violent and male, which I think is very sexy, but I don't like fights, they scare me. What, Georgia? Really? It's just stuff of life. I hate fights.

Two guys punching each other. Oh, I hate it. It makes me so, especially. I think it's hilarious. In ice, in ice skating. Ice skating. Ice fight. Yeah.

That's what this is. Ice fighting. Ice fighting at the same amount. Oh my God. No, but in Michelle Kwan, just punching somebody in the face, there's something about in in hockey that because they're so bulked up and have so much padding on that the punches and the whole fight is slow mo. Yes.

And so you can see their face and I'm like, is he going to cry? I just, it stresses me. I don't like it. I bet they'd never cry. I bet they don't. You know, when you, you know, when you're really angry and you're like trying not to cry. Yes.

I always wonder if they're feeling that. It is just funny that they, it's that that is a sport where fighting is completely allowed accepted and the refs pretend they're going to do something and they just let them fight it out. Totally. It's very violent. Yeah. So, and one would think with wrestling, it being like almost like an acrobatic feat.

It's not like, it's not, you're not really hurting the person that you wouldn't get hurt then. But I mean, there's so many accidents that happen and so many bad wrestlers that, that don't know how, that don't know how to interact with other wrestlers when they're fighting. They also do that stuff. I remember seeing that documentary. I just saw part of it about mankind. He's amazing when he fell through the chain link fence, but there was a part where he

just gets clocked in the head with a folding chair and it's a real folding chair. It's not, they don't use like, they don't mock anything up, they pick up a real metal fucking high school auditorium folding chair and hit each other in the head with them. They don't do that anymore. You're not allowed to hit in the head anymore. Because the mankind rule? I think because of the Chris Benoit rule. Really?

Yeah. Because they realized how bad it is. Yeah. They're allowed to, to make that and not allowed anymore. So yeah, so let's see, wait, so the repeat concussions can lead to dementia, which can contribute to severe behavioral problems, blah, blah, blah, blah, wait, there's one other part of, yeah, sorry, it took us down a knee flying out of the truck. And we've talked about it also, 85 year old Alzheimer's patient.

That's crazy. Lifetime chronic concussions, head trauma. I kind of didn't even know what he was doing. Maybe. I think it's just such a severe personality change, like, like, you know, you and I when we're 85 are going to act in similar ways that we do now. We're not going to kill people. We're not going to like.

You promise? I'll try my best to live to be 85. Yeah, let's get that done first and then achieve that at that point. We might just start killing people because no one would suspect us. I mean, you might as well, right? Yeah. So, yeah, but the, but he just was a different, a different person with different emotions and different moods than the person he was raised to be and was for years and years

probably. So sad. It's so sad. So Chris Benoit, that's my favorite murder this week. That's a good one. Thank you. What's your favorite murder, Karen? Georgia, my favorite murder is, I got the idea from my friend Carol Kraft, who is listens.

Hi. She and my sister have worked together, did work together at Luce Sutton Grammar School in Nevada, California for years. She was the school secretary. She's one of the funniest people on the planet. Carol Kraft is the greatest and she, my sister, when she told my sister, she's listening to podcasts, my sister said, uh, what's your hometown murder? And Carol immediately said, duh, it's Jennifer Moore.

And then I remembered and Laura remembered and, uh, the reason I, so I started looking it up because I was like, Oh, is that that thing? And the memory, um, the kind of like central memory I have around it is my mother. Okay. So my hometown is Petaluma, which is the first city in Sonoma County and Nevada was the last city in Marin County and they, they are right against each other. Okay. So, uh, like in my high school, a bunch of people who lived in Nevada drove up to Petaluma

to go to my high school because there wasn't a Catholic high school in Nevada, Catholic high school. Yeah. Wow. A really small one. Um, so I had a ton of friends that lived in Nevada, um, they're, you know, they're kind of like those two cities you're, you're going back and forth a lot up there. And Nevada is kind of like a bedroom community for people who work in San Francisco, commuters

and stuff. Right. Um, cause it's really nice and close to the city, but still outside enough so that you are in a nice kind of country suburb. Yeah. And, uh, and it's basically, it's tons of tract homes and beautiful little like shopping areas and oak trees and rolling fields and stuff. It's a, it's a really lovely little city sounds really charming.

It is charming. So my mom used to work at the Kaiser in San Rafael, which is the next big city down below in Nevada. And so when the one-on-one got backed up, which it always did because it narrowed between Nevada and Petaluma. So all of the traffic would just get all condensed. What everyone would do was get off the freeway and take the back roads. And so you go down Nevada Boulevard and Nevada Boulevard takes you out to like Stony Point

Road, which is where the, um, the cheese factory is and like that's where you take relatives that are visiting. And it's basically a cheese factory that's way out in the country next to a lake. I used to have to drive by this whole area when I went to court reporting school in like not San Jose, but like court reporting school. Yeah. You never told me when to court reporting school. I never finished.

But excuse me. That's episode one information. God damn it. Yeah. I worked to the, I went to court reporting school and machine Georgia because I worked at a court reporting office and these women made like so much money and it was fascinating to just sit in depositions, which is like, I would just sit there and read depositions all day.

That's amazing. Probably illegal. Um, so I decided to go to court reporting school, but it's, I'm jealous. I'm angry. I have all these feelings running through me right now. I'm sorry. It's okay. Go ahead.

Sorry. Um, no, I just, we'll talk later. Um, so my mom was driving home on the big, we call it the back roads. So basically it's just, it's like you're cutting around through the country to get up to pedal limit out of Nevada. And um, on the way out of Nevada, there's Indian Valley golf course, there's Stafford Lake and then, you know, on, so it gets very country very quickly out right outside the city.

That's cool. Um, so my mom was driving home one night and it was dusk and, uh, she saw cops on the side of the road and she saw them pulling garbage bags out of a ditch. And when she got home, she saw on the news and I, I'm almost positive we were there with her because I can remember, but, uh, but I do this all the time where I can write memories very easily. But, um, I feel like I remember my mom having a freak out because she saw on the news. They had finally discovered the body of the little girl who had gone missing four days

earlier. And that was this girl, Jennifer Moore. So she, my mom actually saw them find the body, which is when my sister reminded me of it in this text, I was like, this is epic. I'm, I couldn't be more proud. Where that your brain can just lose these, like we talk about this every week, murder. And I never thought about it. Lost.

Yeah. It's just kind of not, it's so filed so far back. So essentially this is what happened. Um, Jennifer Moore was 13 years old, uh, and on Thursday, April 13th, 1989, she called her mom at work crying cause she had gotten three C's on her report card. So her mom said, you go walk down and buy some ice cream. And so, um, and this is another thing where I didn't, I didn't look into it, but it pretty much sounded like she was being raised by a single mother and she was latch keying just

like we all did. Um, so she goes to walk down to the basket, Robins on Nevada Boulevard, which as I was reading this is like, I knew exactly where all of this was as I was reading it. Um, and so when the mom comes home from work that night, Jennifer's not there. And she knows from the last time she talked to her, when she told her to go get ice cream, it was way, way, way too long for her not to be there. Yeah. Um, she knew she wasn't a runway.

I, I read in this article, interestingly enough, the age 12 to 14 are prime runaway years. And so anytime someone is that age and they call to report the missing, the cops have the habit of assuming this is what it is because that's usually, um, the, or it's commonly the case, but, um, of course the mother assured them this is, this is very wrong. She didn't run away. All of her stuff is in a room. Her purse is in a room.

Like all she did was take the money for the ice cream. I was a runner. Did you ever run away? No. I think I, when I was like five, cause I was going to show my mom and I basically took a suitcase out to the road and then came back inside immediately. Yeah. Packed a suitcase, put it under the bed.

I did stay out during my, when I was like 13, my drug years, stay out all like overnight and they straight up called the cops and yeah, I was, I was a runaway. Well, they should have though. Yeah. That's good though. I know. I feel so bad about that. Yeah.

You didn't know you were on drugs. I was, yeah. Um, so the cops checker school records, they see that she's had perfect attendance and that she's, you know, that's not the person that we're talking about. So, um, so they, they start looking into it two days pass and they say, you know, they start handing out the, have you seen me flyers, which of course, again, seems a little late for me. Very late.

I don't like it. But, um, uh, I think that this is 1989. So back then they were like, we just want to see probably is the, is the, is the idea. So on day three, a person driving, um, down, uh, Nevada Boulevard, uh, sees garbage bags in a ditch on the side of the road and goes and looks in them and finds Jennifer's nude body. Um, that poor person who found them, do you think he knew what it was going on? Like what was looking for?

Well, he, uh, there's a very good chance he saw on the news because this was all over the news. This little girl's face. Have you seen me? This girl's missing. So, uh, it had, it did hit the news like the next night. Okay. Um, so maybe that flyer thing was just the cops like on the street doing it because I remember

that, well, I shouldn't say that cause I don't know the exact chronology, but do you remember like the, the big light? Is it the small enough town where it's like, this is what everyone's talking about a hundred percent? Cause this doesn't happen a hundred percent. This is, this, this is a town, uh, just like Petaluma where people did not lock their doors. Right.

And when you see this picture, it's such a 1989 picture. She's got braces. She's got these bangs. She's got the big hoop earrings. She's so cute and she just looks like a girl from your junior high. Those kill me. These sweet kids. Yeah.

I always, when I see them, I always say, I'm so sorry. I know. I know. So yeah, this poor motorist, that is my theory, I should say. I think that that person saw that a girl was missing on the news and then when they saw the garbage bags pulled over and checked and then their worst nightmare was confirmed. So, um, uh, everyone's in the, in the, in between time, of course, no one let their children leave the house.

No one knew. There were no latchkey kids. Right. Once it was announced that she was missing. Um, so the cops look at the plastic bags and inside, uh, I should, I should say plastic bag. I think it was just the one big garbage bag at the bottom. There were a Sunday school like leaflets and one of the policemen recognized it as the,

oh, my kids use those at their Sunday school. So this is like probably a local church Sunday school leaflet. So they decide to start checking all the churches nearby and, um, they, they map out from her house to the ice cream parlor, what churches are in between. And so, uh, they go to Bethel Baptist church on Nevada Boulevard and, um, they notice when the cops show up there, they notice there's four big garbage cans outside. Two of them have garbage, garbage liners, garbage bags, garbage bags inside of them and two don't.

So they go over and check. It's the same type of garbage. So this probably had happened in the last day. Yes. Yeah. And they, they immediately are like, okay, this is, you know, like this is can't be a coincidence or like would be a very, uh, uh, the probability of that being a coincidence. I love when puzzle pieces fit together.

Yeah. And that they're, you know, this might be a little makeup work, but I, everything I read in this, it was like the cops were like eagle eyed. And I think that is that thing of a tiny town where it's everybody's daughter. Totally. So they see that they match, they see that it's a match of the same type of garbage bag and they, they go and immediately get bloodhounds and they have the bloodhounds. Um, they, they have them sent on Jennifer's clothing and then the bloodhounds take them

directly back to the Jennifer's house. So they know that this is the, this is where she ended up. This is the church. Um, so she basically took a shortcut from her house through a creek area. No, that was in the back of the church and then up through the church. So, um, they go into the church to look for evidence and they talked to the pastor there who, um, shows them something weird that he had noticed. There was a coffee cup that had been like the coffee had been spilled in the library,

but no one, um, had picked the coffee cup back up off the floor. So it was just this coffee stain and it was weird to him because beverages were not allowed in the, in the church library. So, um, you know, it's weird enough that someone made that spill, but then they didn't even clean up half of it. Yeah. Basically. Um, so the crime lab comes, pulls up the carpet, tests it, there's blood and bleach.

So in the same spot? Yeah. Oh, so he spilled the coffee over it to fight it. Yes. Yes. There was a big blood stain, but so he was like, Nope, it's a coffee stain. Here's a coffee cup. Oh, yeah.

Don't worry about this coffee stain. Oh my goodness. So they get onto that immediately. Um, and then when tech just searched the rest of the church, they find a brown bomber jacket at the bottom of their clothing donation bin. And it was the jacket, the Jennifer war when she left the house to go get ice cream. Whoa. So now they know, and, and they check the pockets.

She had the rubber bands for her braces were in the pocket so they know it was hers. Um, so now they know this is the, we've got a location. So, uh, the pastor remembers that he'd gotten to work early Friday morning. She had disappeared Thursday. And when he got there, the door was not only unlocked, it was a jar. So basically there were three people on Thursday night that were at the church that could have been involved. One was the janitor.

One was, uh, the youth pastor and one was the teenager that was helping the youth pastor with gardening. Can I guess? Yes. Uh, the, um, youth, hell yeah, it's the youth pastor. Oh, wait. No, I was guessing the kid. Oh, shit.

Um, you know, it's really funny that you just said that, and maybe this is the way it's going. The, I read a bunch of articles about this, but it's such a small town and it was so long ago. I could only get these little short ones from the LA times and then, and of course, Wikipedia. But then I found the transcript for a TV show called I detective. Have you ever seen that show? So it's, I don't think it's on anymore.

It was on, um, it was on like court TV, it's that old. But basically they would lay out a true crime story and then they would, they would tell you the evidence that the cops found and then go, is it a youth, remember that and you would make a guess. Then they would tell you what the right answer is and why. So you were kind of basically learning how cops do their procedural shit as you watch. Oh, that sounds fucking awesome. So I stumble upon a transcript for the episode about the Jennifer Moore murder.

Holy shit. Um, so you just, you just intuited something. I think you should be very proud of yourself, but at the same time, I felt, I thought that the youth pastor and the janitor were too obvious. I did. I just cheered because it was the youth pastor, uh, there's always going to be victims in this show. Um, so it turns out that the kid that was helping the youth pastor garden had a record

and was a bad kid, but his grandma had come and picked him up at six 30 that night. And so he had a, um, an alibi, um, and then the janitor wasn't at home when they went to go question him. So he was really high up on the list. And, um, then they go visit the youth pastor and he's a 29 year old ex marine named Scott Williams. Um, he owns a, uh, gas station nearby. He's a Sunday school teacher, um, whatever.

He works at the church all the time. So he ever, every, he's well liked by the community, all the stuff we always hear. Um, uh, so they go talk to him and he admits that he was the last person to leave on Thursday night. Um, and he can't account for his whereabouts that night. He's kind of saying there was a meeting at the gas station. Oh, but I did miss it because I was, uh, do, you know, the gardening or whatever and he's real evasive, so they're, they're like, you know, like this guy and then he's not.

Yeah. Exactly. And then he suggests that he take a polygraph. So they're like, well, that's a good way to dissuade anybody here. You're insisting you're innocent. Uh, well, he fails the polygraph test and at the end of it, the polygraph examiner who I believe was from the FBI, because they brought the FBI in really early. That's so smart.

It's so smart. I wish more, I wish more of that would have happened in a lot of cases. I know. Like just get the big boys in, it's not an insult. Uh, so they bring, so at the end of the polygraph, the examiner says you killed Jennifer Moore and he cracks and cops to the whole thing, which I think is so brilliant because usually in movies and stuff, the polygraph examiner is just all dry and like, did you, did you not and making little checks and doesn't care.

He was like, looking at this evidence, here's the conclusion and basically played a poker game of like, wow, you did it. And then he was just like, you're right, I did it. I just think that's so interesting. Had he ever killed anyone or hurt any record? No, no priors. No priors. That's so interesting to me because I feel like the people who crack and break down are

almost like the people who insist and just fucking lie about it are more sociopathic to me than the people who like feel their field remorse. And so they break down and cry because they can't even fucking deal with it themselves. And usually I would say, I would wager that those people are the ones that it's the one off a kind of a passion or the moment or the, you know, whatever it is, opportunity, exactly. And that's what this was because he shows them the rope burn on his hand where he strangled her with a piece of rope. So he's just like, he said, he, the quote is I murdered her, I raped her, I strangled

her and I bludgeoned her. So then they know, they know they have them. It's not just like coincidental or that he's been manipulated. He was very specific and basically totally barfed it out. What a piece of shit. So then the cops go to his house and they start talking to his wife, who of course is freaking out. The wife.

The wife always. Oh honey. And then she tells the cops that they had recently gotten into a fight because of the huge bills he was racking up on those nine, seven, six numbers from the 80s. Do you remember? Is that like sex talk numbers? Sex talk numbers that were, now they're illegal. Are they illegal?

They're like, there, there's all kinds of FCC regulations. So they're not like, it used to be there's nine, seven, six commercials. I don't remember. Second, it was past 10 o'clock at night. That's all TV was. Yeah. Um, and when they look into it, um, he had huge bills and his were for a child porn. There's it.

Phone sex. There was. Oh. I mean, he found, I don't know. I did. That's all the line says. It seems like a fucking FBI setup right there. I mean, yeah, I mean, I don't think this needs to be said, but I bet they weren't real

children. Sorry. I agree, but I do want to clarify. These would be actresses. Yeah. Phone actress. Anyway. Uh, so basically he tells the story.

He's working outside, um, of the church and Jennifer is cutting through from the creek through the parking lot and he sees her and he gets this idea and he had in his head and so that he's going to like seduce her. So he says, Hey, do you want to coke? Come in. It's hot outside or whatever. And lures her into the library, makes a move on her. She freaks out, tries to run.

He grabs her, rapes her. And as he said, strangles her and hits her in the head all in the church library. Oh honey. Church. Let's just remember these things that this is when people have any kind of religious thing that they're just, it does sometimes let's be suspicious of that even on the outset. Yeah. That a lot of people use religion to hide behind.

Yeah. Humans are humans. And just because you're of a specific group of humans doesn't mean that they're, you're exempt from being a terrible person. Exactly. Anyone good can go to that place on Sunday and sit there in silence and act. Anyone can. Yeah.

And believe that they're, they're right and they're a good person, not like you even are like, I'm hiding this secret. I'm a bad person. I'm just like, oh, I haven't exempted from this because, because God and the Bible. So he got first degree murder, got a life sentence, no possibility of parole. Thank God. Every ounce of this research, I was like, yay cops, yay judge, it rarely happens. We can celebrate it.

And that's it. That's Jennifer Moore murder of Nevada. That is, that is exhausting and sad and horrible. Yeah. Do they, is latchkey kids still a thing? I don't think so. Well, I was starting my sister and I told her, this is the story that I'm doing. And she goes, yeah, and that's why we never let kids go anywhere ever by themselves ever.

Right. Like my, our friend, Adrian has a daughter who's 18 and she was going to the dentist to get, but she was going to be sedated and Adrian called my sister and goes, can you go with her? Yeah. She was sedated. I've heard that about dentist's office though, like there was, you know, one who would insist that the kid came alone back there and the mom was like, we'll go fuck yourself and wouldn't

take the kid to the dentist. Yeah. Um, because the, again, doctors, priests, whatever it is, we don't know. We don't know. It doesn't mean automatically that that's a good moral, upstanding person. Well, I'm trying to think if I had like a 12 year old son or daughter, would I be comfortable with them going home from school after, after school and being alone and like, yeah, kind of, would you be comfortable with them?

Not these days. Yeah. I mean, not with, I'm surprised I'm being, I'm saying that and being so naive, which I don't know if it is, but 12 is, is pretty, I guess once I see a 12 year old, they go, no, never mind. But I mean, it's weird because it, we did it from when we were like eight. Oh, totally. I think it's just that cultural thing where like when everyone does it, it's not that

big of a deal. Yeah. And also when you have siblings, it's, it's better because you have other people around when it's an early child. It's a little. Yeah. If you have people to escape the house with when the murder comes in the front door. Or just someone, you guys have to be responsible for each other.

So you're just a little more careful. And a little more bitter, like my sister was all of our lives that I had to constantly take me to the bathroom, just so angry for 20 years. My sister has had to pick my napkin up off the floor when I threw it on the ground when I was in a high chair, fuck it, she hates me to this day, like you were making her dance like a monkey for you. Yeah, my neck. Yeah.

Lee, go pick that up. Hates me. Thanks, mom and dad. It's a thing. It's, it sucks to be the older sister. That's for sure. That's true. Being in the baby is the best.

Yeah. Well, that was. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, that's what we do if you don't like it. We understand. Yeah. Yeah, my favorite murder shirts.com page were like, give us money now that we've ruined

your day. Now that you'll have nightmares, I think the psychology of that actually holds up though. Thank you for ruining my day. Yeah. At least we're doing something. You know what I mean? At least it's something. It makes me feel alive.

I feel like there's little bits and pieces of this podcast that make, that'll either make people safer, more aware, um, less grateful, yeah, and maybe somewhere like grateful, yeah. Maybe somewhere change something for the, for good, for the good. Maybe someone will be on a jury someday and be like, oh, you can't let this guy totally did it. And he did do it. Maybe we'll win a Peabody award. That was the next thing I was going to say.

Maybe we'll be crowned Queen Victoria, Queen Vicki. Well, I mean, you know, it's, it's, uh, yeah, finally, I'm Queen Vicki because of a podcast. When do we get to be Queen Vicki for once and on a lot? It's always those British people that get to be the Queen. Why can't I? But we are, we're Queen of second murder podcast, well, we're going to put out a, um, send us your hometown murders, please. Don't give up.

Don't give up. You know, we're about to record a mini episode with a few of those, so that's why you should tell us. We're also just be patient because we're getting them from every direction. We get them on the Twitter, which is my fave murder. I'm sorry, at my fave murder and, uh, there's tons and people, we love it. People post them on the Facebook page. It's great.

Here's the thing, the more clever and funny they are and well written, the more likely we'll read them because the less work for us, we just, yeah, we read them all, create that content. Yeah. Um, thank you guys for listening and thank you again for rate reviewing and subscribing and getting us fucking up on that. Those charts are incredible. That's crazy.

Thank you so much for your support. We honestly are very touched and, um, slightly freaked out. Totally. I feel like we're beating a bunch of people at their own game and it's freaking me out. I'm going to say it. Male podcasters, male, comedian, podcasters, click, click, click, click, click, goodbye. Oh, bye. You got it.

Oh, dudes. Bye dudes. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Well, it's just fun to, um, represent the ladies.

It is. Whatever. You know what? Stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Bye. Thanks for watching.