My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 171 - Live at the Bellco Theatre in Denver

Episode Date: May 2, 2019

Karen and Georgia cover the murder of Adolph Coors III and the Colorado Cannibal.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. What's up Denver? Is this on?

Is this on? Is this on? Is this on? Is this on? I'm on. You're on. This is on, girl. It's on.

Isn't it? Is this the fucking Super Bowl? What's happening? What's happening? Shit, take us off camera three and four, please. Truly. No, wait. Is this fucking WrestleMania or what?

That's right. Repeat or cross promoting to other interests. That's right. There's other interests in the world. That's where my husband is right now, WrestleMania. That's right. Yeah. He fucking ditched us.

No, it's fine. He's got to live his life. Yeah. For one weekend a year. You're so generous that way. I am. I am. It's nice.

Wait, we should say. Oh my God. Look at these. It's a giant Elvis head and a giant Frank George head. Oh my God. It's all right. But she's really disappointed in you. I have to live with a pet who stares at me like, why can't you just feed me?

Why can't you walk me again? Why can't I get under the covers in your bed? These were delivered to us backstage. We didn't make them ourselves. That would be really weird. That would be so awesome. Have you finished your head? We are leaving tomorrow.

Georgia, I'm not telling you again. You can't check in on the plane. You'll have to get there an hour early so you can. So if we bought these seats on the plane, they wore seat belts. Yeah. If you can bring your emotional support puppy, I'm allowed to bring my emotional support giant cardboard cut out of my cat's head. My pet is the least emotionally supported animal or being on this planet.

There's been times when you're like, oh, I bet you my pet knows how I feel. Knows my feelings. There's been times when things have happened, I'd be in the kitchen crying, leaning against the counter. In Georgia, literally, rocks, treats, treats, you're standing by the treat thing. If you're there and crying, you might as well grab me a treat. I want to defend her for a minute. Maybe she's like, you know what?

You should try treats. It always makes me feel better. You know what? If you're sad right now, I see you bawling in the, right by the treats, try it. I think it's very clear that I enjoy my fucking treats. That's just the truth. Oh, thank you. I thank you and my spanks, thank you.

So these say on the back, we made these for the show, but giant animal heads aren't allowed. I guess you know the rules. Can have them. Oh, thanks. Oh, thanks. Oh, this is kind of debris that you brought in, and it was going to get thrown in a dumpster, and they're like, maybe they'll like them. Mine says, security took these from us, and then there's like a weird drawing of what

kind of looks like a Pac-Man ghost, and a talking bubble, and then there's an arrow and it says, that's a broken heart, but I'm drunk. That's why they took those from you, not because you're not allowed to have animal heads, because they can tell you're a shitface. Because you're a standard lobby, like, I don't give a shit. Yeah. Hold on. Let me tell you.

Let me tell you. Oh, this is by Ben Nyers, by the way. Thank you, Ben, for making us sad. Salidee, I can't read your name. Salidee? Sweetie? Oh, yeah. Thank you.

I'm sorry. I can't read you. The loge is being represented. Is that what that area is called? We wouldn't have been able to see it anyways. Section double F-25. Yes. Thanks, guys.

Now what the fuck do we do with these? I mean, I don't know. Okay. I'll hold on. Okay. Okay, yeah. That's pretty much it. You're not drunk, are you?

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. We want these back. Thank you. Speaking of drunk secrets, I just remembered last night when we were getting back to the hotel, we fucking literally ran into a person that was drunk Karen. It was.

It was amazing. Her name was Kate. Yeah. But here's the thing, she was repping, it wasn't sloppy, it was very pulled together. Her outfit looked, stop it. I'm saying on the slop scale, including the fact that she, we walked by there because we were just walking in the lobby and she looks and goes, you two, that's how the conversation started.

And she was like this, like adorable 23 year old and she was, there was a bachelorette party. It was a bachelorette fucking party. Her outfit, her outfit like covered her vagina and her nipples and like that was it. And I was like, it was actually the fact that she was drunk and you couldn't see anything obscene. It was like, great. Is what I'm saying.

Yeah, you're right. She had it pulled drunkenly together, which is the kind I like where she's having a conversation with you. Like we had a fun, active conversation and then we were like, bye, laders. And then she walked away, I was like, I dig it, like she was able to hold it for us. And then when she turned to her insanely shit-faced, drunken bachelorette party friends who were holding the elevator so they could take pictures of themselves inside an elevator. And we were about to go in the other room, like, you know, we'll wait a minute and noped

out of there. We were like, circle up, we need a team meeting so we don't have to go into that elevator with those drunk girls. Kate literally goes, I have a secret to tell you. I swear to God, I have a secret and the secret was that her friends at work had been bragging that they were going to my favorite murder show that night. She took a photo of it and she's like, I'm going to show those fuckers. And I bet you this morning she looked at her phone and was like, what the fuck?

How did that happen? I bet she didn't remember. She's like, who is walking around Phoenix with cardboard cutouts of those two? Those two. Those two. I like it when, here's my favorite thing, you don't have to abide by these rules in any way, but if you want to, I like it if you talk to me like we just were talking two minutes ago and now we're talking a little bit more, that's the most natural way to talk

to a stranger that isn't like, you don't go like, or go like, okay, check, check your wallet, make sure everything's fine. It's just someone that's like, oh my God, you're already in the party. I always like, do we have to go to this bachelorette party now? Did we just make permanent friends with Kate in that way where now we're in this till the bitter end? She was like, they're going to be mad that we're missing this bachelorette party and I think I wonder if they're going to get divorced anywhere.

I mean, this girl was so young, you guys, wait till you're 49 to get married, at least. Oh, then, is that what you said? I don't know. Oh. Or were you trying to do a Steven call out? Oh. I don't know. He's not here.

Oh. What about this? We have another giant thing, Denver, you're all about giant shit, Denver, there's a theme and we like it. Here we go. Hold on. One and two. I pull in.

You pull off. Three and four. We've got it. Shimmy, shimmy, shimmy. Okay. We unroll. Is this the top? Yes.

Look, it's a great thing but we've also always wanted to be able to hold one of these. Ready? A giant check. It's a giant check. We do. So many murderinos. Look what you guys do. Amazing.

38 $100 you guys collected for Safe House Denver. Actually $4,000. Actually $4,000 you guys? That's incredible. Amazing. It's made out to the bank of SSDGM and it says, stay saved and do God's mission. Amen. Amen. And then the memo. The memo says, hi, Mimi. Hi, Mimi. Oh, no, what if this is really their check number? What if they put their check number on accident? Everyone's already

taking a picture of it and they're withdrawing from that checking account. Good job, Denver murdering us. Thank you, Denver murdering us. Way to go. You're also really good at making giant checks and we're good at holding them. We're going to walk into Chase Bank tomorrow with that and demand they cash it. We saw that when we unrolled that. I got a little, it made me choke up a little bit, but all things considered, I also choked up because I read an article about Loretta Lynn's 40th or 50th anniversary in show business. I was like, God damn, she's been doing it for so long. And she was telling me about it as I was putting my makeup on and I looked up and I went, you're crying. Like telling me about it and she was crying. And then you

unraveled the check and started crying again. It was kind of a disaster backstage. Look. And I was like, I'm on drugs. I was going to say you should try a treat, but you already got those. No. That's the last thing I fucking need right now. I was just very moved because Amanda Shires, this is very side barry, but Amanda Shires and Brandy Carlisle and two other women, they did for Loretta Lynn, they got together like kind of a super group and did a bunch of her covers in front of her for her. And it was the first time they'd ever performed as a band. And they fucking apparently knocked it out of the park. None of this is relevant or interesting to you, but it made me cry and everything is therapy to me. So shut up.

Speaking of, this is my favorite murder, the podcast. Hi. This is Karen Kilgaran. This is Georgia Hartstark. Thank you. Do you want to talk about your outfit at all or tell us stuff? Let us hear that. This whole thing. What did you call them shoes last night? These are my old nun shoes. Full nun shoes. My evil nun shoes. These are the kind of shoes in the 90s I would wear them and my Aunt Ping would say, oh, are those your orthopedic shoes? You got something wrong with your feet? I'm like, no, I'm cool. Shut up. I don't know what to say except for that I got this because I have to wear things other than pajamas all day in public because of trout face. I was like, just every piece of clothing I find is the worst. And

my friend is like, just let me recommend some stylists because it was what she did for a living. And I got a Dell stylist. Not a stylist from a Dell computer. A Dell. Because it kind of sounded like that. She designed a silver box laptop that weighed like 22 pounds in 1997. So she got me all these dresses and this one is from a brand called Eloqui who gave it to me for free. Yes. How about your beautiful dress? My dress and shoes and my toe bandage. Can we get a close up on the toe bandage? I'm going to get in so much trouble from like, you know I just took the bandage off myself and I'm this close to taking the stitches out myself. What is wrong with me? You love sepsis. That's what it is. You want

a good infection. I really do. Right in that bone. Do not do it. Okay. Like the third day she had, she texted me a picture of the bandage off. Can I tell this? Absolutely. And then she goes, I'm rebandaging it with a panty liner. I thought I was a genius. I had had wine. And I was like, yeah, it's like, you know, in the field. You're like mash. It's like triage. Yeah. I felt like such a feminist. You know, it is clean. It's clean and it wasn't scented so it's not like it has all these chemicals. Good guess. Great. Promo code murder. The darn things got wings. Somebody, because of that reference, somebody fucking sent us, yeah, well it was a reel of basically tampon commercials from the 80s and it's one

of the funniest things of all time. We should start playing that before our show. Just on video. Yes. Of just hand after hand pouring blue liquid onto a maxi pad. Just over. Why? Women being told they can play fucking tennis in a giant pad. Ride a horse. Ride a horse. Bleed all over. A horse is back. It's what they say in the commercial because it wasn't my idea. I wish they would do a commercial, like a real commercial where it's like, you can play around all you fucking want in this giant pad. There's no blue liquid involved but you might cry about Loretta Lynn. Get ready. Get ready. The truth about periods. We're bringing it across the nation. We got to come out with our own tampons that are

just like flop around. Wear this on the outside type of shit. No. Stop it. We would never do that. Please think of the men in the audience tonight. Please. For once in your life, ladies. For once will you, this podcast, please consider how disgusting you are. Should we sit down? Is it time? I guess. Okay. Oh. Yes. Look at that. Yeah. How about these bad boys? Minds me, my day is up in the bar. The usual. Which is anything. Doesn't matter. Pour it all into one glass. It tastes the same to me. It's called a long island ice tea. It's called I started at three. Try to beat me. You're the bartender. What are we doing? Karen. Okay. We also, I mean, not to tell you every single private thing about us, but

we also did split a four hour energy shot. I've never, five hours. Is it a seven hour energy shot? I can't handle it. Two and a half. Anyway, it's five. Just a five hour. Yeah. Okay. We should start an off brand one called four hour. We're like, it's a little bit chiller, but it'll get you through that test. I've never had it before. Oh, get ready. And it was like, I feel like I am. And that's the problem is that I have, there is this kind of feeling of like, it's like the roller coaster starting. We're not moving, right? We're not. Well, we're in high altitude. So maybe that was a mistake. Oh, yeah. I said that right after I took a sip of it. We were in the backseat on the way over here and I

was like, look what I have in my purse. And I was like, let's do it before. And it sounded like I was trying to get Karen to do math. She goes, let's do it before the show. And I was like, I've never done it before. It's great. It's the best. I'm sure I tried. It's my energy. I just didn't want to try. We're talking about math. We're old and boring. Yeah. Anyway, meth is making a comeback, everybody. It's for fun and young people. It went away for a while. Remember? No, you don't because it hasn't. Do you want to tell everyone about what I can't? Sorry. I don't want to see it. Guys, this is a true crime comedy podcast. Thank you. We agree. Thank you. We feel the need to explain at the beginning

because everybody that listens to this podcast comes to our live shows. Thank you so much for doing that. It's so fun and exciting. But many of you insist upon bringing people who do not listen to this podcast and don't necessarily like the idea of this podcast. I don't know why. It seems rude. It seems like you need to go to therapy. But on your own time, to those people, we call you drag-alongs and we just want to tell you that if you are offended by the idea of true crime and comedy going together, we understand because those two things, the worst thing that could happen to somebody in comedy do not belong together. It's not appropriate and we don't think it's appropriate. We don't think murder is funny.

We just think we're funny. And we like to have fun. And the way we process the thing that we're obsessed with because we've both been obsessed with true crime since we were like 12 years old and we like to look at the worst things in the world and try to see if we can cope with them. But a lot of the ways we cope with them is through comedy and humor. And so if that offends you, we invite you cordially to get the fuck out right now. Be our guest. Your friend will meet you in the lobby by the merch table afterwards. If you could go get us four more five-hour energy tanks. Four of the five. I feel very hot right now. Did you, uh-oh.

Feel right, feel my neck. Am I really hot? Oh shit, you're having an iron rush. This is stage one, man. Just when I stopped wearing- Did you see that dragon? I just stopped wearing anti-perspirant. That was a bad time to do that. You're going straight deodorant or none at all? Straight deodorant. I would never offend anyone that way by doing none. Is it pretty bad? I love it, but- Wait, your own body odor or the deodorant? My own body odor. Okay. Yeah. No, that makes sense. You made it. I made it. Be proud. It's beautiful. It's me.

I just happen to smell like fucking lavender all the time. Okay, sorry. I'm sorry all the girls in school hate me. It's not my fault. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, HelloFresh has you covered. HelloFresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. HelloFresh meals are convenient, seasonal, and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly.

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at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Aresha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories

about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path.

Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. I think you're first tonight. Woo! Yes! Thank you. Denver. Denver, you guys are so good to us.

You're number one, truly. We like it here a lot. Not just because weed is very legal. I'm going to do the kidnapping of Adolf Cours de Ferre. Oh, yeah! This is one of those things that you're like, I heard about something about a beer and a kidnapping and you didn't really know if you're not from here.

But now I know. You do too, but I'm going to tell you anyways. That's what it's all about on this show. I'm going to retell you the story you know worse than you heard it the first time. Let's see what happens. Catch the mistakes. And don't tell me, though.

I don't want to hear the mistakes. No, of course not. Okay. Oh, I got a lot of information from a forensic files episode. And there's a Denver post article by Kevin Vaughn that's really great too. So, oh, man, I took some notes. I forgot to write them down. Okay.

The name of the book, the fucking. Do you want to enter your memory palace right now? I don't have one. Okay. It's been desegrated. Why? By years and years of invaders. Yeah.

Okay. The Cours family. I've heard of them. Okay. Enjoyed their products. Really a fan. Truly. Is it Cours that your dad likes?

No. But wiser. Okay. I know. I did the... Look. Listen. Let him listen and drink your fucking beer.

Can I just do an impression of my dad's if my dad had to be here to defend themselves right now? He go, hey, this ain't happy birthday. It doesn't mean anything. He's been saying it to me all my life. It's scary and weird and intimidating. It makes you stop talking and then it makes you think for like four days where it's like it's not his birthday or my birthday.

like what's the threat here? What's happening? Yeah. And say, but it worked. It calmed you down. It worked. That's a takeaway for all of you. Take that home and use it at will. Okay. Well, so here's what happened. We talked about Coors and Bud and the other thing. And Vince's favorite beer is Coors. Yeah. He always gets Coors backstage, right? Because Lore Calguera's favorite beer is Coors, as is Adrian Colasingham's, who's here tonight. My other sister, what's up? They're Coors light people. I am a terrible wife and can never remember if it's Coors or Budweiser. So the other night, I was ordering a bottle of wine. I was like, I'm going to surprise him with a thing. I said, Budweiser or is it Coors?

And I was like, I should text Karen and ask her. No, I know it's Budweiser. And I brought it home and he's like, no, I'll drink anything. He's so sweet. How long have you guys been together? Long time. Very long time. Very long time. Just keep it fresh. I think you're keeping it fresh. Nobody should make any assumptions in a relationship. Well, now I'll just think kidnapping, Coors. Vince loves kidnapping. Vince loves Coors. Great. Now I know. Okay. The Coors family has been making beer in their Golden Colorado breweries since 1873. Good job. Golden Colorado. They were Prussian immigrants and they have since turned into the fifth largest brewery in the world. But back in 1960, it was kind

of still a mom and pot. Like a family owned local big time brewery. And that was like what everyone loved. You know. She doesn't have to tell you. Your dad drank it. Your grandpa. You remember. Okay. By 1960. Your mom. Let's just say it. By 1960, 44-year-old Adolf who went by ad. Good. I think that's a great call. Anybody in this room named Adolf, don't be afraid to call yourself ad and walk away from that full name. Yeah. Because he was Adolf Coors the third. So they were like, nope, we're going to keep using that name. We don't care. We had it before. We're going to do it after. You're not the boss of us. Sorry. We make beer. We don't like the name Stewart. You can fucking keep it. Right?

Yes. Okay. So he's the grandson of the founder and he's the CEO of the company now in 1960. He's a father of four and he's one of the state's best known and most influential citizens. That's not him. What the hell is that? That's mine. What did you do? This is, well, they just gave it away. Oh, shit. Jane fucked up. I think he thought I meant, no, that was me. What? Stephen. You didn't do anything. Stephen, you're fired. Stephen, you're fired. Shit. Did we just give away your story? Yeah. I don't know what it is. No, good. That's all that matters in this podcast world. What do we do now? What happened? Are they all yours? Let's check it out. Look. Okay. Stop. Was that him? Okay. He thought I meant as a bit at the top. Okay. Do

you want to explain it now or wait till later? It's not a bit at the top. It's for my story. I used the wrong language. I was crying about country music. I don't know. Why do I have to keep justifying what I do to you? Well, I don't know what that is and I'm excited to find out. Okay. But in the meantime, just know that we're never going to look at it again because I would have to go back through all your pictures to get to it. Right. So should we study it now? No. Okay. Well, yours ain't off course. Look at this guy. Yours ain't off course. Pretty hot. Remember last night when I put up a lineup of, I put up a lineup of like three convicts and Karen was like, I guess I'd pick that one. You don't have to pick one. I'm permanently in sixth grade.

I can't, I don't, you line up three guy pictures and you have to marry one. I call that one. That's eight off. Add. Let's call him add. I wish that tie was a little wider but other than that he's great. You're good with it. All right. So on the morning of February 9th, 1960, eight off course gets into the station wagon and starts his normal drive from his home west of Denver to the brewery 12 miles away in Golden Colorado. Sorry, really quick. He's the heir to the course fortune and he drives a station wagon. I just want to say keeping it real, add the third, keeping it real. That's right. Later that day, a milkman finds, he never makes it to work and later that day a milkman finds Coors abandoned station wagon on the dilapidated one lane

turkey creek bridge. That bridge is so scary. So dilapidated. It's just like one car so you have to wait for other cars. Every monsoon season they have to reweave it as a village. Sorry I've been watching a lot of national geographic lately. So they find the car and the engine is still running and the radio is on. When investigators arrive they find a large blood stain in the dirt and in the creek below they find a lens from eight off course glasses and two hats. One is his baseball cap. He's also wearing a baseball cap but so down to earth. I know. And a pipe? I don't know. And whistling? Okay. And they also find a brown fedora, a mysterious brown fedora. I mean when are brown fedoras not mysterious? True. Could he have been

wearing the baseball hat over the fedora? Like I'm going to go to work today and change it up at lunch and freak everybody out. Was he a fun loving Coors? Maybe he was like I'm going to show them that I wear a lot of different hats in this business. And he has to hold his finger exactly like this. I'm going to show him. Get ready for this guys. It's a play on words about the thing I put on intentionally. The worst kind of comedy. Okay. So the sheriff's department issued all points bulletin for eight off course but no one reports seeing him and the next morning his wife received a typed letter in the mail and it's a ransom note that reads Mrs. Coors, your husband has been kidnapped. His car is by Turkey Creek. We know. Call the

police or FBI. He dies. Cooperate. He lives. Doesn't this sound like the John Bonet Ramsey? Yeah, it does. It's creepy. We have no desire to commit murder. All that we want is, here's my emphasis, that Monday. Yeah, all we want is that Monday. Deliver immediately after receiving call. Any delay will be regarded as a stall to set up a stake out. If you follow the instructions, he will be released unharmed within 48 hours after the money is received. So the letter is unsigned. The kidnapper's demand is half a million dollars for Coors safe return and it instructs Mrs. Coors to take out a classified ad for a tractor in the Denver Post and that's how he'll know that she received it and she's like, let's do it.

For like to sell a tractor? Yeah, like a trickeroo. You know. Sure. Does that make sense? Yes. Sorry, that was the kidnapper's idea. The kidnapper was like, so I know you get this, put an ad for a tractor and don't put ‑‑ I'm like, hey, kidnapper. Picture of a tractor, please return my husband. Don't do that. No, it's like be cool, be cool, be cool. Be cool like tractors are cool. Okay, great. Got it. Be cool. Yes. After the kidnapping and murder of the Lindbergh baby back in 1932. Oh, you don't tell me. I know that. I mean. Did I get you wet? No. Okay, that's what these are for. Oh, we each have our own towel. I know, I took yours. I'm sorry. It's like Rocky. When we finish up, who? Just put one under. That actually helped. Okay.

Just in case, just in case. Can you spill your soup? Crumbs. Oh, man, I slept with so many tortilla chip crumbs in my bed last night. I got out of bed this morning and it was like, oh, I'm gross. That's the beauty of hotel living. It's the beauty of your husband can't come to this one weekend. Chip bed. It's pretty great. You actually put chips in the bed or like, you guys go to sleep. I already told you. Five more minutes. I'm turning out that light. Then she eats some real fast. I thought everyone had the same eating disorder as me. We do. Anthropomorphize your Tostitos with me. That's your new book. Sorry. I'm not talking anymore and you are talking. I love 17-hour energy drinks. Promo code murder. Call us five-hour energy. Okay. Here's what

happened. After the baby in kidnaping in 1932 when we all know we listened to Karen's story, the baby got killed or was murdered. Kidnapping had become a federal offense. Great. That's a great idea. That is a good plan. So 8-of-course, 8-of-course, junior, 8-of-the-3's father. So junior called 3's father. Two. Oops. Okay. He calls up his best buddy because remember the rich white man, Jay Edgar Hoover, personally, and he's like, yo, can you help me out, bro? He's like, hold on, let me take my slip off really quick. I'm not kink shaming. I wish he had done it more and then he would have been less of a weird creep. So the FBI, of course, sweeps right in. They take over the investigation. The course family tells the investigators that they'll do anything to get

their husband and father home safely. The family is worth millions, so money's not an issue. Let's fucking do this. They get the ransom money together and they buy the weird tractor ad that we don't really understand. And they wipe by the telephone for instructions on where to deliver it, but the kidnapper never contacts them again. So that's not fair. No. I wonder, yeah, that's not cool. The FBI's document and analysis study, the type ransom note. Okay. They study the type ransom note and they dust it for fingerprints, they don't find any, and they, you know, they do the whole thing that we all know they do now, which is like, look for weird type thingies and be like, what manufacturer of typewriter is this? Let's go back and see who bought those in the

past two months and stuff. Stuff we know, but like in 1960, I think that wasn't so common. So they find, and they also know that there's no typos or messed up keystrokes, so like this person is smart. Or a secretary. Right. So they figure out the typewriter is from a manufacturer called Royalite Printable Typewriters. It sold widely in department stores and other outlets throughout the U.S. They start looking for the typewriter to match with this description. And meanwhile, they have a couple other leads to pursue. The most promising is one from a man who had seen a car parked near the kidnapping site on the day of the kidnapping. This dude had been near your favorite bridge, Turkey Creek Bridge.

Oh, I just can't even think about it. Don't cry. She's prolapidated one way. So here's what he was doing out there. He was guarding his mines. Yeah. Guarding his mines. He was a minor and he was guarding his mines. This is really obscure photo I found of him. Wait, that's the ransom note. He's really thin. I was able to find this really obscure photo of him. Remember when I started... Remember in the airport this morning when I started cracking up and hitting my laptop from you and going, don't look, don't look, don't look. And you're like, what's wrong with you? And I'm like, nothing. This guy? I try to tell Georgia over and over, like when I don't have my glasses on, you could hold up the entire story and I

wouldn't be able to read it. And still any time she's got something like this going, she's like, don't look. I don't want to ruin it. They don't work. You're safe. So he's guarding his mine as you do. You want to talk about him some more? Is that from a sugar corn pops box or something? Like a shutter stock. Help the miner to find Alfred Kors, the third. I'm sure it's illegal for me to have this and use it. And make shirts of it. You mean our new merch? Our new merch. That's how they went broke. They got sued. They got sued by that little fucking miner. But sorry, can I just ask? Who was protecting his mines? He was. Who's he? The miner. Wait, what? Oh, no. But where did the miner come from in

the story? He's under the bridge? Yeah, he's like near the bridge. He's around. He's in and of the bridge. Okay. Area surrounding the bridge. Okay. There's probably a mine right there and he's there that day. Maybe there was a threat going on. I don't know. Maybe it was coyotes. I don't know. Somebody coyote typed up a letter to the miner. You better watch that fucking mine. Yeah. I want to add it for a tractor. Okay. So this dude had been hanging out there protecting his mines. With a big smile on his face. And he saw a car there. It was an early 1950s model of a mercury sedan that was like bright yellow. And he had remembered part of the license plate because he was paranoid and fucking

thought it was someone coming to disturb his mines. Sorry. But it's 1960 something, right? Yeah. 60. I mean, like, I'm sorry. Isn't being a minor kind of old fashioned? Is he like a time traveler? He would get angry when people would come to disturb his mines. Picture comedy. Best feeling I've ever had is when I found these photos. Somebody was all over getty images. Just cartoon miner, angry miner. Do we have more? No. Sorry. I just, that's it. Because there hasn't been a miner around here in 25 years. It's getting hacky. We need fresh ones. No, it's not. That's it. That's just it. So he had the partial license plate and the police find four mercury sedans with that same license plate. The FBI checks all of them

out and one catches their attention. It's registered to a man named Walter Osborne who bought the car just a month earlier. When they go to Osborne's apartment in downtown Denver, it's empty. He moved out the day after the kidnapping and left no forwarding address. Guilty. So a maid who cleaned his room said she had seen guns in his room and a paperback copy of Robert Travers book anatomy of a murder is inconspicuously laying in the room. What's interesting coincidentally is that the cover of anatomy of a murder is that angry miner. It's not weird and unnerving. Sorry. The dumpster behind the apartment, they investigate and find empty boxes for a pair of handcuffs and leg restraints. Agents dust

the room for prints and when they find prints and run them, 1960s style, so I don't know how and where. They had eight other prints to check them against. They match not a dude named Osborne but a guy named Joseph Corbett. He's a 31-year-old man. He's a convicted killer and he escaped from fucking prison. Oh, shit. The cops are like, well, time to go to the bar, right? I mean, that's it. Free course. Let's go get our free course that we're going to get. So this dude, Joseph Corbett, he's actually a Fulbright scholar with a genius level IQ. It's like 150 or something. He attended University of Oregon. He had been on track for... That's right. He was on track for medical school. But then he got into a

fight with... He had picked up a hitchhiking Air Force Sergeant and shot him in 1951. He claims it was self-defense but the man had been shot in the back of the head. But you can always... Wait. The man had been shot in the back. What do you mean? Yeah. But that guy pulled the gun real fast over his shoulder. Self-defense. Got it. I'm just trying to explore all the options that are possible in criminology. We're basically detectives. Yeah. So he says it was self-defense. He's convicted for second degree murder. He's incarcerated at San Quentin for a bunch of years. And during a prison transfer to a minimum security facility, he fucking escaped. That's right. And he makes his way to Colorado

under that alias, William Osborne. And he, like, he had been planning the kidnapping for like two and a half years. He was so angry at wealthy people and he wanted to be wealthy so bad he picked someone he could kidnap and get money and that was like his only fucking thing for two and a half years. But he didn't do a great job of it because he had, like, a yellow car that he left the license plate on and he did all... And, like, the typewriter... He did all of these things that were, like, not a Fulbright scholar level criminal. Hey, just because you get the Fulbright scholarship doesn't mean you have good taste in car colors. That's right. Those Fools always, they'll fall for the yellow car. That's true.

Can I get that convertible Mustang in bright yellow? Yeah. Always, always spring for the, what, navy blue? Yeah, you gotta go. Navy blue with pinstripes. So the landlord at the apartment identifies Corbett through his mugshot and the man, as the man who rented the apartment and a resident at Corbett's rooming house tells the FBI he often heard Corbett typing late into the night, which was like I bet a lot of people did back then. But also, like, I had a, like a neighbor who typed all the time and I bet, and it was the most fucking annoying thing in the world. You're like, stop being a fucking hipster and get a laptop and stop clonking away on your fucking typewriter, you fucking hipster douchebag.

Yeah. Yeah. You know. Oh, sorry if you type right. Listen, if you type right, not past 10 o'clock, please. All right. Yeah. Control your passions. You know what I mean? It's like, that's why the movie Atonement bugged me so much because like 11 minutes in, I was just like, someone cut the typing right now. And that was like the theme throughout the whole thing. It's not good. It's not pleasant. No. Okay. So, and then so they, oh, they find the typewriter that, you know, they find the person who bought it and he's like, yep, that's him. He bought it with cash. He gets fingered for it. It's totally him. So, the FBI puts at an all points bulletin for Joseph Corbett's 1951 Mercury sedan, bright fucking yellow.

Eight days later, 1700 typewriter air spray painted on the top. Shit, that could have been great. It's a Mercury Cougar. And then someone has taken paint of some kind, whether it's spray or air, it's none of my business. And painted a typewriter on the hood of a car is my joke. No, don't. I just so, no. Getty images number five. Yes. And so, 1700 miles away, eight days later in New Jersey, in Atlantic City, police find the yellow car burning in a dump. Oh, yeah. And the interior is pretty destroyed and there aren't any license plates on it. He finally figured out to take off the fucking license plate. But the serial number, of course, identifies the car as belonging to Walter Osborne, aka Joseph Corbett.

So investigators, now it's 1960, remember. And so they find four layers of soil on the car's undercarriage. And they, because he's rich and white, they investigate further. Hold on. No, you deserve a swig of that water for that comment. So they test the fucking soil in 1960, which seems like such a modern thing to do. And the most recent soil samples is obviously from New Jersey, the second layer is from a drive across the country. The oldest one, number four, or number one, I guess. That sample is obviously from the turkey creek bridge near Corbett's ranch. They can tell it's all like the same. But then they take a soil sample from the third one and it's ‑‑ okay, listen, I'm going to read. Soil sample

on top of the shale is from the area where Corbett took eight off Corbett's after the abduction. That's what they are hypothesizing. And there's all this granite flecked with pink feldspar. You know what I mean? Yes, I do. That's a great indicator. The feldspar is there. We know. We're from Denver. We've got the feldspar, everybody. It's there. The FBI agents take 612 samples of dirt and soil from the Denver and surrounding areas hoping to find a match. And they find it similar to Pike's Peak granite. You guys love granite. No, but that Pike's Peak is amazing granite. Well, fuck you up. You know that's the name of a strain, right? Pike's Peak granite, it better be. So it's ‑‑ on the front range

of the Rocky Mountains, about 10 miles west of Colorado Springs. But the ‑‑ you love those springs. But the area is fucking huge. And so they search everywhere from mines to houses and empty buildings, but they come up empty. During the spring and summer of 1960, there's still no answers. Corbett's 14‑year‑old son, eight off number four. They will not let it go. They are determined to change the ‑‑ they're indignant. He recalls crying himself to sleep every night. Eight months after the kidnapping, a man target shooting at a Douglas County dump discovers clothing. Dumps. No, they are fun. Sorry. Dumps are great. The Douglas County dump is amazing. And you're right to cheer for it. You're

right. It's got all those seagulls. Where did they come from? Inland? So he's there target shooting, which sounds actually really fun. I love the dumps. I'm sorry. I'm yelling. We also had coffee backstage, too. I'm sweating. Growing up in the country, we had to go to the dumps to get rid of our garbage. There was no, like, civic services or what do they call those. So we just, like, had a trailer and you just kept throwing garbage bags into it. And then my dad would be like, you want to go to the dumps with me? And the answer had to be yes. Sit with the trash. Yeah. And so you just ‑‑ I would sit there and just scan when I would be sitting in the truck at hand to be sweeping out or just look out

and scanning to see if I could see anything good. A body. You were looking for a body. I want to say I was, but I would have gone for anything. A cabbage catch doll or something. Just a point of interest. A cabbage catch doll. It's definitely the altitude. Yeah. That's what's great about this place is you can blame everything on weed or altitude. So this dude is fucking shoot and shit. He finds clothes that match what Adolf Kors was wearing when he disappeared, I know. And an engraved pen knife that belongs to Kors as well. Can you imagine out of all the shit, he's like, oh, fuck. That's really amazing. We always look new. It probably looks like that's ‑‑ just got left here. And a group of hunters find

a human skull and bone scattered in the forest. There are two holes in the shoulder blades caused by a high speed projectile that corresponds with two holes that are found in the jacket that belonged to Kors. And the projectile had gone through the lungs and that has what made it fatal. So the bones and skull are in pretty good condition so they identify the reins with dental records and confirm the body belongs to Adolf Kors III. Isn't that fucking bananas? How did I ‑‑ how did we ‑‑ it's crazy. Okay. So basically the FBI surmises that what happened was that Corba drove out to the secluded Cherokee Creek bridge. You love it. To wait for Adolf Kors and of course like blocked, it was one lane so they just

stopped, I guess. Yeah, that's why that bridge is so fucking scary. Anyone can stop you. Yeah. And he made it look like he had broken down, of course, the old fucking ruse. And then at some point it seems like that Corba was going to try to kidnap him and not ‑‑ and like hold him for ransom for real but he was really bad at crime, as we said. And so he didn't expect Adolf Kors to put up a fight. He fucking did and it seems like he was running back towards his car when he got shot twice in the back. Yeah. Also, why would you ‑‑ it's like I want to kidnap someone and someone that won't put up a fight. How about a captain of industry? How about someone that's like ‑‑

What a grown fucking man. So many vitamins in his life. He's just going to fight me. I mean, this isn't an argument for kidnapping smaller people. It is, though. No, it is. It is. Be smart about the people you grab. People who have iron blood. People who have bad bone density. People on Boniva. I'm just saying help yourself. We can't do it for you. You have to do it yourself. It's a real DIY industry out there. It really is. Kidnapping. Cut that, Steven. Please. Please. We'll not be held culpable. We refuse. So where was I? Okay. So they think he panicked and shot eight off course. The geological evidence shows that Corbett drove to the Rocky Mountains

45 minutes away to dump the body. And it was an area that that guy was familiar with as a hunter. He left town the next day, drove to New Jersey, set his fucking car on fire, and latered out of there. So he becomes like the most wanted man, obviously. I don't know what photos I have. Let's take a look. Is that the bridge? Holy shit. Look at it. No, look away. No, look back at it. Look at those old cars. Those poor horses. Those horses are like, we've been waiting here for 45 minutes. It's like, we got to get this bridge two way. I think that's his car. What did I call it? Station wagon? The Maverick? No, that's pretty second sweet. God, that car looks a million miles long. How do you parallel park that thing? You don't. You're a man. You just leave it in the middle of the street.

It's the 1960s. You don't give a fuck. And then you just throw your keys to whoever's walking by. Take care of that, will you? All right. And this is the site where the body was found. It's just a pointless crime. It is a pointless death. Not to say that if you got the money, it would be pointless. No, no, no. But I mean... No, it's really awful. It's like they took this father of four and from all accounts he was this lovely man, like a wonderful husband and father, and this fucking asshole just did this because he was angry at society for his place in life, which was that he was a genius and fucked up. It wasn't even like he was poor and couldn't do shit. He was like in college. God, get it together. I couldn't even do that. He was such a great typist.

The world was his oyster. That's true. So, yes, totally. So, J. Edgar Hoover calls Corbett the most wanted man in America. And for seven fucking months, Joseph Corbett successfully evades capture in one of the largest manhunts in American criminal history since John Dillinger. And yet I hadn't heard of it. History, okay. Finally, a woman in Vancouver, Canada, sees the U.S. press reports and calls the FBI saying that a man matching his description is living in her apartment building. And she's like, I'm going to stay in a hotel for a while. I don't know, probably. I would.

Either that or she'd be like, don't worry, I'll watch his door for you. She's one of two kind of people. She just has a gun pointed at it. I got it covered. Yeah, yeah. I love her. When the arrest is made in Vancouver, Corbett says, I'm your man. I'm not armed. I surrender. And they shoot him twice in the back. That's wrong. During the trial, 23 FBI agents, five lab examiners and a fingerprint expert testify for the prosecution. I mean, you're fucked. Joseph Corbett, of course, pleads not guilty. But on March 1961, he's convicted of kidnapping and murder and sentenced to life in prison. No. You guys are learning, finally.

There's barely even one. I know. There's two hoots at the most. No. I just yelled at you. So here's what you guys do. In Colorado law, I don't know if it's still happening or what, but there's a death penalty case unless there's an eyewitness or a confession. So this case doesn't have either, so he doesn't receive the death penalty. And he just gets life. There's a bunch of lawyers start talking very loudly right now about how that lost it. Actually, the way it is now is... Tell us after. Tell us after. Yeah, or don't. I'm kidding. So he gets life in prison, which we know means 19 years in prison.

He's paroled in July of 1979 after serving 19 years. I know. He finds work in a manufacturing plant in Denver and then as a truck driver for the Salvation Army and he just becomes a fucking recluse and doesn't talk to people. He might have been that way already. There might have been something going on that he was this weird person who couldn't exist in society. Kidnapping, say that. As evidence of that. So reporters try to get him to tell a side of the story. They're fucking so hungry for his story, he refuses. Until 1996, he finally talks to a pair of Denver post-reporters and he tells them all about his childhood fascination with the Lindbergh baby kidnapping.

He was a kid and he couldn't stop reading about it. He was obsessed with it. That's weird. God, that's wrong and weird. He shouldn't do that. What a freak. And then he denies his involvement in the Cores murder. He continues to say he didn't do it. Then don't talk about the Lindbergh baby dude. Come on, you just don't sound. He claims he's innocent. On August 24, 2009, what's that, ten years ago, the manager at the Royal Chateau Apartments, which is college, I wrote this all on an e-mail that I meant to fucking write down. College Village? No.

It's right in College Village. You know where that Piquito Moss is? Do you have that here? Chipotle? What's national? Not Chipotle. At the Royal Chateau Apartments, where the now 80-year-old reclusive Joseph Corbett lived for more than 25 years, his body is discovered in his bed. He had shot himself in the head. He's 80 years old. I know. And he didn't leave a note and no one came to claim his body. Isn't that crazy? So the murder of Adolf Cores, do I have one? Oh, I think I have a photo of him that I forgot. There he is. Okay. What do you think? Thoughts, feelings?

There we go. More? No, no. I can't think of anything. It's a bad sign for me. The murder of Adolf Cores is one of the first high-profile cases in this country where soil evidence was critical to the prosecution of the case, and the kidnapping and murder is one of the most notorious crimes in Colorado history, and that is the kidnapping of Adolf Cores. Wow. That's great. Thank you. That was great. I love that.

Hear the people that are clapping. Do you want to take in the visual aspect and not just the audio? It's more like, look who isn't clapping, clap your hands. It's shaming, non-clappers. I see you. I'm pretty sure I saw a guy sleeping in the front row yesterday at the show. I hope so. I swear, I kind of looked at him, and then I look back and he's out, but I think his wife had fucking elbowed him. It's really rough when you can see well. It sucks. The thing is that sometimes you can only sleep at a 4,000-seat venue. It's something about the acoustics. Yeah.

It's like a melatonin. Those dulcet tones of people screaming shit from the audience. Okay, what are you doing? Well, so many of you probably already know this, but I'm about to do the story of the Colorado Cannibal Alfred Packer. I don't know this. That's what, it's not worth it to go all the way back, but the ravenous movie poster that I showed you featuring the wonderful guy Pierce and Robert Carlisle from Trainspotting.

And then out of left field. Oh, we got ourselves a fucking guy visual person who's on point. Oh, my God. Good job. Highly professional. It's almost like you guys have had shows here before. Yeah. All right.

And that's, you wouldn't believe it, but it's David Arquette over on the left-hand side. Oh. It's 1999. Okay. And this was a, this was a dramatized version basically of the story I'm about to tell you. Okay. But that's, this is the reason I know about this story is cause I saw this movie. Oh really?

In 1999. And every year since then. I know. They were favorite. And then the ritual began. When I would eat human flesh and watch ravenous laughing. It is good. He was right.

Oh no. You made me say it. I didn't want to tell him. Oh, but so I would sort, I would cite ravenous as the one, I would say the initial source, but then obviously our best friend wikipedia. And there's a podcast called colored red by someone who only refers to herself as Laura. So there's no one else, nothing else I can say. That's bold.

But it's a podcast about the lesser known crimes and murders that have shaped the history of Colorado. Oh. Yeah. So you should listen to that. Cause there's good information. So, okay. So let's talk about Alfred Packer's early life.

This is the funny piece of information that I did get from that podcast. Alfred Packer had, makes him probably my favorite person of all time including every family member I have. Alfred Packer apparently had a tattoo of his own name that was misspelled. No. Yes. Oh, my heart. My heart.

No. Yes. How did it, how was it spelled? Alfred. L-F-E-R-D. Shit. So oftentimes in articles, he's called Alfred Packer. Oh, wow.

But they're like, his name was Alfred Packer, but then people are like, you know. That's not what that says, you idiot. He's the one that said it. We got to go buy what two drunk minors. This is also a minor piece. No way. Holy shit. I knew a dude in my 20s, of course, who was in a band and got the name of the tattooed

name of the band on his wrist and they spelled it wrong. So he changed the name of his band. Oh, smart. Yeah. That's good. He should have done that. Just changed his name. And then started a band.

Yeah. Okay, so Alfred and Fred Packer was born on January 21st, 1842 in Pennsylvania to James and Esther Packer. He's one of three children. In the early 1850s, they moved to LaGrange County, Indiana, so that the dad can become a cabinet maker. And then as a teenager, Alfred fought with his parents and ended up moving out on his own to Minnesota, which is such an act of rebellion.

Like, fuck you. You don't understand me. I'm going to move to Minnesota alone. I'm 15. Go fuck yourself. He did it. Our boy Alfred did it. So he gets, he goes out there, he gets a job as a shoemaker, your favorite.

Let's take a look at who we're talking about here. Okay. Ah. That guy is not fucking around with the facial hair and the cheekbones. That guy's like, it'd be really cool if you come see my band this Thursday. I mean, I wouldn't not wear that outfit is all I'm saying. He's got a quality about him. It's like, I'm sorry, did you move out to Minnesota when you were like 15?

Because you're amazing. And is this one of those after death photos, because you're also kind of creepy. Because you're kind of chill to the point of. Creeping me out. Well, you know what it is? His eyes. Dead eyes. Yes.

His eyes look like that thing you get at like a Halloween store where like you walk by and it's normal and then you look again and it has like demon eyes. But he just has demon eyes, I think. Great. Love him. Great bow tie. Alfred. Alfred.

Doing it. So here's what he does, April 22, 1862, enlists in the Union Army to be in the Civil War. But he gets honorably discharged eight months later because he has epilepsy. Oh, man, he's your buddy. He's my best friend. He has the kind that is, I feel very bad, because he basically had uncontrolled epilepsy. Obviously, times have changed. Well, I mean, control the epilepsy if you can control it.

Yeah, and I can. Power. Thank you. Also just an FYI, if anybody ever has an epileptic seizure around you, don't put anything in their mouth. Oh, yeah. Don't put anything in their fucking mouth. Stay away from their mouth.

And if your friend goes, I think you're supposed to put a wallet in her mouth. Don't fucking put a wallet in my mouth. I should be saying this to you. So if someone says, put a handful of pennies in her mouth and make a wish, do not let them do that. Don't put that in my head. Stop, don't. Now that's my only one dream in life, is to cramp pennies in your mouth while you're

... Don't also don't put in a cob of corn and watch me chew it off like a cartoon crow. Oh, stop enticing me with a good time. Sorry. This is, I read this off an epilepsy pamphlet and it's always been my rules. Oh, damn it. You have, you can put anything in my mouth when I'm having a seizure. I did not mean for that to sound gross.

It's in your own head. You're 50. You guys, it's not that kind of podcast. We talk about cannibalism, mess. We're trying to talk about cannibalism, not blow jobs, so come on. People's parents are here. Tighten it up. Okay.

So. Okay. Epilepsy, once again, comes into our lives. So his thing is he won't not be in the Army. So he moves to Atomua, Iowa, and on June 25th, 1863, sure. He tries to enlist again, and this time he actually ends up serving for almost a year, but then he has a seizure every two days, so they're like, buddy, and he gets discharged again.

So now he's unemployed, he moves out west. He finds various odd jobs working as a wagon teamster, a ranch hand, a field worker, and a hunter. I think that's a, isn't that a nursery rhyme? All four of them are in a boat going down a river. Okay. His seizures begin to continue to hamper his work performance, but his coworkers also say he has a bad attitude, he's rude, he's known as a thief and a liar, and he's highly

argumentative. I mean, the seizures we can deal with, don't be a dick. Just, yeah. You know? Now we're going to stick all kinds of shit in your mouth when you're having a seizure, because you deserve it. That's why you got to zip the lip. All right.

So part of that, the reason he moved from job to job is because people were just like, get this asshole out of here, and then they would. Okay, wait. And for example of that, here's another look he has. You're working with this, and he's just like, that's not how you do it, and you're like, we need to get rid of this guy, I'm not kidding. This fucking hat, I can't look at it one more day. Okay.

Okay, enough. So I wish you wouldn't. I wish you'd stop. Thank you. It is a wilderness guide, but he isn't good at it. That's not one you want to be bad at. I don't know where we are now. I'm sorry, I'm not that good at this job.

Yeah, that's the only part of the job. You have to know where to go, and he doesn't ever, and he wears that fucking hat. So people are just like, take it off, I'm not kidding. You don't deserve that. He ends up working as a minor in Colorado under a bridge. Bridge? That's haunted. Really?

Was that bridge haunted? It's probably. Okay. Definitely. Okay. So he's a minor in Colorado, then also in Utah, and then in November of 1873, a group of about 20 men who are working at that mine, they decide they're going to leave the Bingham Canyon mines near Salt Lake City, and trek to Great Mines there, trek to Breckenridge,

Colorado. Yeah. Breckenridge, you guys are a big part of this story, so get ready to hoot and holler for yourselves. It's all you. It's all you tonight. Okay. This team is led by a man named Bob McGrew, and he had gotten word that Breckenridge was

teaming with Gold. So obviously, Gold Rushtime, gossip would get around, and they'd be like, did you hear? Breckenridge. Oh my God. You don't even believe that. They are shitting Gold in Breckenridge. Get out there. You don't even know.

And then it takes them seven months to find out that it was a prank, or you're like, shit. It was a ruse the whole time. The whole time. So they, it's the group of people. They don't know each other that well, but they're all like, but let's go get that money. But I trust you implicitly with my life. Yes. Let's do this.

I'm more greedy than trusting. Okay, so they decide they're going to go. So 25 miles into that journey, they run into Alfred Packer near Provo, Utah. And when they tell him where they're headed, he asks if he can go, because he says he knows the San Juan mountain region very well, and they're like, well, this is perfect. We got a little guy in a little hat, and he's going to tell us exactly how to get to Gold City, USA. They're fucking, that's where the high five was invented, it all happens in that moment.

Lies, lies, lies. But they are hesitant to let him join as Alfred has no money, no food. He's not bringing anything to the table in terms of like, we're going to pool all our stuff and get there. He's like, yeah, I'm going to eat your stuff. And then take up a lot of space. And his supposed knowledge of the region, giving him this big leg up, he actually didn't know the territory at all, so that was just a bold face lie.

He's so bad at leading people places, when will they learn? And why does he want to keep going to that area? It's like somebody that's like, I just want to do theater, and it's like, don't do it. You're bad at it. Don't. There he is. I think he would be played by Ben Kingsley. Don't you think?

Oh, very much. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Goodbye. So, do, do, but I think that my better energy is shutting my eyes down, these words. Are you sure? I've got bionics vision now. Uh-oh.

I can see everything. Did you take my vision? Okay. Uh, okay, they let him join the party, they head down the Mormon trail towards Colorado. So it isn't long before they begin to regret that decision, of course. He's, uh, Alfred spends much of his time complaining and arguing with the other guys. They're on a fucking, like, like, what, 200-day hike, and they, and then asshole that no one actually knows and isn't helping comes along.

You guys, this is so boring. It's a pill. My shoes got dirty. Are we there yet? All right. Probably. That's exactly probably what happened. He also hugs the food and water rations for himself.

Come on. He also doesn't seem to know the area, as we said, and of course, every so often, he has a seizure and freaks everybody out. Fuck. I mean, that's not his fault, but, like, again, don't be a dick about it. Maybe if you're going to have seizures, bring your own, like, donkey, or something, you know what I mean? Like, bring...

Something to the table. Make up for the last. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're going to hang, make, drive everybody down. How about some fresh oranges? You know, something like that. Eat one less can of beans than everyone else. And stop arguing me about every single fucking thing around the campfire.

Right. Okay, so he slows down their progress, and then to make matters worse, weather conditions are growing more severe. Snow starts to pile on the trail. They can't... Their wagons can't go a steady pace, and soon the trail is almost completely snowed over. They lose their way. They run out of food, of course, forcing them to resort to eating horse feed to stay alive.

I've done it. It's not the worst thing that can happen to you. What is it like? Is it like bird seed? Oh, no, bird seed. I don't know any horses. Well, it's not. With the food we fed lady, my aunt Jean's horse, it's just like, it's oats.

It's different versions of oats. Your sister forced you to eat it? You were a kid? Probably. I bet. Or I was just walking around by myself like... I wonder what this tastes like. No one can do anything.

I can eat it. Anything I want. A whole egg. Oh, oh. Whatever, fine. My sister, when she was like a toddler, once my mom watched her pluck a snail off a plant and put it into her mouth. No.

How old? Like a toddler. Like a baby. Fifteen. I'm not going to out my sister on this one, stockingly. She had great taste. She liked Escargot a young age. Okay.

So, out of food. And as that even starts to run out, the group considers... Is it okay? No. Want me to read it to you? Oh, you know what it is? It's that shadow. Wow.

Focus on the problem and solve it. Don't adjust to the problem and let it stay. So, we're going to have to add five hour energy to our writer, right? And to our every fucking show. It's crappening. Because this is the best show we've ever done. You're sweet. There's a couple of people out there.

There's a couple of people out in the audience that are like, yeah, no, it's not. It's not. Okay. Okay. The group does eventually consider killing and eating our horses to survive. That's how bad it gets. Oh, but they don't. That's so nice, though.

Well... I'm surprised to hear that. I can't guarantee they didn't. Let's go with it. Let's say they didn't. Let's say they didn't. Let's say they actually took their own jackets off and put them on the horses. There's nothing like sadder than a horse standing in snow.

That's so sweet of them. Yeah. Okay. We can just write a whole fan fiction about this story. And never get to the cannibalism. Okay. Miraculously. Oh, man.

I'm going to need some pronunciation help on this. I should have taken care of this before the show, but I was straightening my hair. Okay. Miraculously on January 21st, 1874, they stumble upon a Native American encampment near Montrose, led by Chief... Led by Chief Ourey. Yurey. Yurey.

Then why does it say hour? Literally O-U-R-A-Y. Spell it like you say it, Chief Yurey. Okay. So, Chief Yurey. Well, I have not heard of both. He was known as the white man's friend. So, apparently he was a friendly, helpful, here's another group of dumb ass white people.

Let me... Let's take them for all we can because they're so stupid. Get them out of the snow, help them out once again. So, he welcomes the group into his camp, giving them food and much needed hospitality. He tells them conditions are far too harsh for them to continue on and offers to let them stay in his encampment until spring. They're like, great. And then, like, a few weeks into their stay, they're like, we got to get out of here.

We got to go get that gold. Right. And they believe that everyone else is heading to Breckenridge and that they're going to miss out. Everyone else is going to get the gold before them. That's that hair missing out. Yeah. There's massive FOMO about Breckenridge.

11 men decide to brave the winter conditions and push on toward Breckenridge anyway. So, Chief Ure is like, no, no, don't go. And they're like, it was basically like when you're trying to get keys away from a drunk person and they're fucking fighting you and then being really shitty and then you're like, just fucking keys. Good luck tonight. You know, you can only fight for so long. Because the men wouldn't be swayed.

He gave them food and he gave them directions. He said, follow the Gunnison River toward the destination instead of going through the mountains. That's the best way. Alfred, however, because he got to be Alfred, he insists that they travel through the mountains arguing that, yes, the weather is bad, but it's still the most direct route to Breckenridge. They listen to this asshole instead of fucking their chief over here. Yeah.

They're like, oh, this guy has given us everything and has lived here since it started. So he kind of knows all about it. Oh, and then there's this asshole we all hate. I got to go with this guy. I'm sorry. So that's what they do. So Alfred convinces five of the 11 men to come with him. On February 9th, they set out through the mountains.

So they're journeying through, this team consists of Shannon Wilson-Bell, James Humphrey, Frank Butcher Miller, George, California New. No. Yes. He was shaped like the state of California. Weird bend in the middle. And Israel Swan, who I believe was in his 60s. So they estimate it's going to take them 14 days to complete this 75-mile journey.

Unfortunately, they're ill-equipped. They have no heavy winter clothing. Yeah. They're just like, let's just kind of do this blizzard thing and see what happens. They have no flint to start fires. They have no snowshoes. So all they have between them is two rifles, a pistol, some knives, a hatchet, and a little bit of ammunition.

And chutzpah. Everyone knows that's the most important thing when you're walking through a fucking blizzard. They're like, we're going to stab and shoot the snow. Okay. Do what you want. Sounds good. The remaining six men who don't listen to Alfred follow the river, but then they wind up running out of food, too.

It's just a bad time to travel. As Chief Urey fucking said about 50 times. Okay, so they are rescued by cowhands at the government cattle camp near Gunnison. And those guys, we love your cattle camp. It's like homey, but fancy. And they have the best oats. So those guys who didn't listen to Alfred stay at the cattle camp until April, until the storms have passed.

So cut to less than two months later, so the guys that they go down the river, they starve and then the cowhands find them and then they go off and they're rescued. And then there's Alfred and the five idiots that listen to him, they're like, we'll just go straight. We'll just power through it. We're fine. We'll turn the radio up loud and smoke and we'll get through it. So a little less than two months later on April 16, 1874, Alfred Packard comes stumbling

out of the forest across a frozen lake and over to the Los Pinos Indian Agency near Seguash. Seguash. I think you got it. Seguash. Squash. Squash. Squash. Squash.

Near Squash, Colorado. Squash gourds. Well, one person just say it. Seguash. Seguash. Seguash. Seguash. Seguash.

Seguash. Sorry. I'm sorry. You're saying this is pronounced Seguash. S-A-G-U-A-C-F-O-N-H-E. Oh. The whole world, it's all silent. The whole last half is silent of it.

You know what I'm going to do? I'm never saying that city name again. I'm so fucking mad. Seguash. You fucking idiot. Okay. So this guy shows up, right? Alone.

Our boy, Alfred. I'm sure the hat's gone by now. He's bloodied. He's alone and he has a big story to tell. He burst through the doors of the agency mess hall, disheveled. He has rags wrapped around his feet, his rifle, a knife, a steel coffee pot, and his satchel. That's it. The men in the mess hall, they run to him, they tend to him, they feed him, they put

on dry clothes on him, and he drinks some whiskey and tells them what happened. So he tells them that he'd gotten snow blindness along the trail as they were going on and he was starting to lag behind. And since they didn't want to get slowed down anymore, Israel gave them a shot then to protect himself and then the rest of the men went on their way, basically abandoning him. So he says he slowly made his way through the mountains for just over two months, miraculously managing to survive on tree roots and rose buds. Oh.

Liar. Liar. Yeah. Those winter roses that are so common, coming up from the ground through this snow like a fucking seal video, okay, I guess we have to believe you. So the men at the agency find this story odd, of course, and as Alfred did not appear ravaged or skinny as someone in that position would be, his cheeks are actually kind of puffy and he seems...

Oh, are they fat shaming him? They're like, we think you might have some liver issues because this, his body seemed far from starved, even still they let him stay there for 10 days. They bought his rifle off him for $10, which is the equivalent of 900 to 21. That's right. Today's money, $221, so that he could afford to get back home to Pennsylvania. He was just saying, like, I just need to get out of here or whatever. So they're like, we'll help you because we fucking hate you like everyone else does.

So at the end of his stay there, Alfred sets out for a squash proper to purchase supplies and then he's going to leave for Pennsylvania. He stays at Dolan Saloon, which is run by, of course, owner Larry Dolan. Larry Dolan, that could be a more 2019 name, we're like in the middle of all that like, Jeremiah, you know, Alfred, and of course there's Larry Dolan with his Bolo tie. He's from Boston, he doesn't fuck around. Okay, so Dolan notices that despite Alfred's story about falling on hard times, he is spending a lot of money, about $100 total during his stay there.

He's stoked to be alive and he's just like spending it up. Okay, I mean, you could say that, but he, during his stay, he spent $100, which is the equivalent of $2214, so he was wasting money. Much of it was spent on booze and drinking, he was drinking heavily throughout his stay. And as he drinks, of course, he starts getting loose-lipped, so he's telling and retelling the story of him coming out of the wilderness, but it's changing, of course. And then the story becomes that he became, quote, unquote, detached from the other men rather than them abandoning him, so now it's some more of his idea.

Yeah, I got to get away, I'm a lone wolf, you know, I can't be around a lot of people. Several other of the saloon goers noticed that Alfred is, not only does he have a bunch of money, he uses a bunch of different wallets. I think men love that, though, like in one night, if you use four different wallets at the bar. You look cool. Eelskin. Yeah.

I mean, just stupid criminals tonight, that's what the fucking theme of the show is. Not thinking things through. So he's a sloppy drunk and a big dimer, so he at one point offers to lend Larry Dolan the saloon owner, hotel and saloon owner, $300, which is the equivalent of $6,000. And Larry's like, I'm just going to write your name and number down here, because you're a huge red flag. So a day or two into Alfred's stay there, a member of the original team that had stayed at Chief Eury's encampment, named Preston Nutter.

That, no. Yes. Preston Nutter. Poor guy. He would be played by like a Patrick Wilson type, where he'd be like, all his uniform is perfectly clean, where it's like, what, it's the gold rush, how are you clean? It's me, Preston Nutter, here to straighten things out for everybody. So Preston Nutter arrives at Dolan's, and when he asks Alfred what happened to the rest

of the crew, Alfred changes the story once more, telling him that he was warming his feet over the fire, when the rest of the group went off in search of food, and he says Israel left him with the rifle in case anything were to happen, but then the group never came back. And he thought they had banded him, so he set off without them. But of course, Preston Nutter is no fool. He doesn't buy the story, and he knows that those men are not the type that were just going to leave their own guide in the mountains by himself. They always say you can't fool a Nutter, fool a Nutter once, fluff a Nutter twice.

That's just sound matching, that's not good comedy. Okay, the problem is I can't, my eyes won't go back to the place they were. What kind of drug addiction is that? Okay, so he doesn't buy it. He also questions where Alfred is getting all the money from, but it's when he notices that Alfred has Frank Butcher Miller's pocket knife that Preston confronts him. He's just like this is all wrong and something happened. The two men get into a heated argument, Nutter threatens to hang Alfred, they're finally

separated before a full-on fight breaks out. During this time, two of the men who had taken the Gunnison River path suggested by Chief Furey arrive at the Las Peñas Indian Agency where Alfred had stayed a couple days before. Those remaining three men from that group join them a few days later, and when they get there, all the agency men tell them what happened to Alfred and how he was abandoned. All of them are like, no, no, no, that's not true. Knowing Alfred is a liar and an epileptic and an asshole in that order. They know that the guys they knew wouldn't abandon anybody and that Alfred was a liar.

So they convinced the head of the agency, General Charles Adams, that Alfred must be brought in for questioning. So Adam sends one of his men to go to Sewash to retrieve Alfred through trickery. So Alfred's told that this guy shows up and he's like, you have to come and join this search party. We have to go find these guys. Do you want the lottery, come back here? Yes.

A free cruise. Come back to Sewash for a cruise. So he goes, and then once he's there, they all question him. And they basically are like, we need to get this story straight from you. So all the men he traveled with, plus General Adams, question him and pick a story apart. Alfred sticks with the story that the money came from the man in Sewash who had given it to him as a loan. So to confirm this, one of the agency members rides back to Sewash to find that man.

They're like, fine, we'll track it down. There's no man, that guy doesn't exist. And then that guy who went there hears from witnesses that Alfred was there also using different wallets. So he was really flossing with those wallets in every town that he visited. So the agency officer rides back and confronts Alfred about the lie and they set up a kind of a trial with the officers and General Adams serving as the judge and the jury. And then in the middle of the trial, which is great for storytelling, but I highly doubt

happened chronologically, but still leave it alone because it's better for the story, two tribesmen arrive at the agency with a shocking discovery. They have strips of white man's meat that they found nearby. Oh, no. Yes. So now Alfred breaks down crying and confesses that he was forced to eat his companions for survival. Oh, man.

Right. Okay. So Alfred explains that he and the group ran out of food rations very quickly and they subsisted on roots and rose buds. Stickin' with that one, huh? That's like a Disney fairy princess, like, we'll eat rose buds for breakfast. But it still wasn't enough and then one day Alfred goes out to find Firewood, comes back to find the other four men standing around the body of Israel Swain, who is the oldest

man, and Alfred, who's just as desperate for a meal as the other ones were, agreed to eat Israel because they were all, they were like, are we going to do this, it's back. He says they also found several thousand dollars on swan and agreed to split it between themselves. So that's where the money came from. And then once they ran out of food from swan, the rest of the men decided together that they would eat whoever died next. Right. Now this is, I also did the Donner party when we were in, I think, Salt Lake City.

It's very, yeah, there's a lot of parallels obviously. Donner party was 27 years before. So they were the original. They did it first. This guy's a rip off artist. But that was one of the things in that, it was people that were so desperate and they were like, most people were sick and dying. So like the eating of human flesh was just like one last final attempt.

It wasn't like, we're going to eat some human flesh and then I'm close enough to stumble out of the forest and be at, at a camp. Like, so he basically says that they just kept eating whoever would die. And then at the end, it was him and Shannon Wilson Bell and that Bell tried to kill him so he had to kill Bell first and then eat him and then walk about a mile to total civilization. So some of the men still don't believe Alfred and General Adams for some reason trusts him. So to settle everyone's minds, Adams asks Alfred to lead them all out to the spot where the killings happened.

And he does it, but he gets lost. Now this is the part, right? If anything else happened, we would be surprised. It's right over here, and it might have been over there. You ate people. Why don't you remember where it happened? But in the movie, ravenous, this scene is incredibly intense because the looking for the bodies turns into the lookers being hunted by Alfred.

And it's super, it's a good movie, but it's not totally factual, but it's so good and there's like death caves with bones. I've got to wrap this up. Okay. Now I have to find my goddamn place again. Why? Okay. So he's like, I don't know where to go, this doesn't look right, or whatever, and I lost

it again. One of the men from the original team gets angry, calls Alfred a liar, and so they just have to go back. They're like, oh, we can't find it. We have to go back. On the way back to the agency, Alfred attacks that man with a knife, and it is about to murder him when the other people catch him. So it basically indicates that maybe it wasn't a desperate measure, maybe there's other stuff

going on with him. So he's arrested, and while in custody, he changes his story about what happened several more times. No one believes anything he says anymore. He's jailed by the sheriff just outside of town. So then in August of the same year, a man named John Randolph is walking through the mountains, like a fool, two miles southeast of Lake City, Colorado, where he happens upon a horrifying sight.

Because waiting under the now melted snow were the bodies of the five missing men from Alfred's party. They had been dumped in a gulch beneath the pines, and they were all brutally mutilated, flayed, scammed in certain areas, with the meat parts gone from the body. And here, are you ready? No. It's like a happy minor this time. No, they sent out an illustrator to go draw it because it kept eyes down, children, eyes

down, children. Oops, that's a map. That is a horrifying scene. Is anyone barfing yet? Are you freaking out? Alfred, you spelled it Alfred. Alfred. Uh-huh.

Oh, beautiful. Gorgeous. So much land back then. Yeah. Oh, no. That's what it looks like. Oh, man. For the people in the back, it's fucked up.

That sucks, and that sucks, and that shit. Okay. So, meanwhile, this whole time Alfred's been in jail, without any formal charges, brought against, and they're just holding him. So most people thought he had done something nefarious, but there were other taxpayers in Swash County, who were frustrated that their tax dollars were being wasted on a man who hadn't even been charged with anything. So somebody goes and brings him a key to the jail, and he escapes.

Which is such intense activism, even back then, where it's just like, not in my backyard, not with my tax dollar, okay, Aunt Marie, Jesus. So he escapes before the bodies are found, so when the authorities go to officially charge him, that's when they discover he's gone, because they haven't been there for so long, they kind of stop paying attention to him. So then they have to put up this reward. Oh, yeah. Yes, sir.

Cannibal. The skulls really bring it home. Yeah. Does that skull have an eye patch? Because why would you need it? Yeah. Or is it a little cute hat that's on the side? It's hard to say.

It is difficult to say. I said all that. Reward poster. Okay. On March 11th, 1883, a man named Jean Frenchy Cabazon, this is the one I was waiting for. Frankly, it comes into the scene. One of the original members of the expedition group to Breckenridge, and he is coming through Cheyenne, Wyoming, and, oh my God, is that everybody from Wyoming?

The whole state came to the show. Thank you. One horseback, you say. Bearback? With your periods the whole time? Yes. Callback. Callback.

So this guy, Frenchy, Jean Frenchy Cabazon, he comes into Cheyenne and he's like, there's somebody's like, oh yeah, you should talk to Bob over there. And he's like, that's fucking Alfred. He knows it immediately. So he grabs Alfred and brings him back to Denver where he gives yet another confession. This one he signs on March 16th, 1883 in this new account, Alfred says that Belle told him to go find food and while he was gone, Belle killed all the other men. And then when Alfred comes back, he finds Belle eating one of the men and a fight between

them breaks out and Alfred winds up killing Belle in self-defense. I bet that's what happened. I bet that is what happened, but the places are reversed because you know, that's the best lies. Just say what actually happened, but just switch like two people, then you can retell it a thousand times. Again, criminal coaching from this podcast. Okay.

On April 6th. On April 6th, 1883. That's tonight? Tonight. It was a night much like tonight, but it was a long time ago, but this is just the anniversary of the trial. Damn it. That's boring.

That's not haunted at all. On April 6th, 1883, Alfred Packer is tried in Lake City for five counts of murder. Here's a drawing of that trial. Okay. Looks fun. There's like, you can come watch the trial, but you have to be bald. You have to have a beard, and you need your tall boots on. And crash your legs.

And leave the wife at home. Would you please? God help me. Almost there. The trial last seven days, Alfred's found guilty of the crime, sentenced to hang on May 19th, 1883. His lawyers, however, find a legal loophole that allows him to dodge his death sentence. They say that because Colorado was a territory and not a state at the time of the murders,

Alfred could not be legally sentenced to death, though he escapes the death penalty he is still sent to jail. But then the Colorado Supreme Court grants a second trial in Gunnison, believing that the general opinion of Alfred in Lake City was too negative. So they're going to take you to choose super positive people out in Gunnison. Or they're like, you know what, eat what you want, man. During the trial, having it in Lake City made it unfair. So Alfred, at this time, pleads not guilty in the second trial, but is very quickly found

guilty. And on June 8, 1886, Alfred's convicted on five counts of voluntary manslaughter and sentenced to 40 years in Cannon City Penitentiary. There's his mug shot. Oh. I'm like, eat you. And he also looked like he could be on either Chicago Fire, Chicago Police, Chicago 911, Chicago Sewer Systems.

All the civic duties are represented on ABC or whatever the fuck it is. Oh, that's creepy as shit. So done. So almost done. He tries filing five separate appeals. They're all denied. On February 8, 1901, after a campaign led by an old friend of Alfred's, he apparently had one.

He is granted parole. When? What? In 1901. No. Mm-hmm. So like, it's 14 years. So he lives out the rest of his days working as a guard and then a ranch hand until he finally

passes away from, quote, dementia, trouble, and worry. Oh. I don't know. Should I have eaten all of them? I don't know. He is, it's April 23, 1907, when he dies, he's 65 years old. So the good news, we'll just do a quick silver lining at the end of this. The good news is that now there is an Albert Packer day in Lake City.

What? No. This is the flyer from 2016, but I went on the website, yeah. And that's, everybody needs to start training because there's, what's happening? Can I just say, what's so tasteless? Yeah. I feel, I'm sorry. No, no.

Apologize to me, if anyone, not them. There's a 5K called the run for your life on May 25th, Colorado. You guys have like a month to train for this 5K, get in there, wear an outfit, represent, and then after the 5K is followed up, I'm not lying to you by a mystery meat cookoff. No. Yes, it is. Fuck yes. Please visit LakeCity.com for more information.

That's the nauseating story of the cannibal of Colorado, Albert Packer. Sorry. We're going to need to see some murderinos out there. If you run the 5K or participate in the mystery meat cookoff, please send us every picture you can. We want to be there with you. It's important. You got the answer.

Yeah. He can go. Wow. That was fucked up. Yeah, it was, right? Yeah. Do we have time for a murder town? Do we have time for a hometown?

It's home for a murder town. Murder town, not yet. Hold on. Karen has rules. Yeah, you guys know the rules, but I'll just do it super quick for the people who are new. If you don't make it local, I will pull your hair. I just don't understand the people who are just like, yeah, yeah, I get it. I get it local.

So I'm from Florida. Anyway. It has to be from Colorado, period. Right. The state, please. But nearby is good too. Tell it quick. We probably just did a two hour show, so they want us out of here right about now, I would

say. And I have to pee. And George has to pee. So brevity is the key, and tell it good and be good at it. And if you don't think you're going to be great at it, go ahead and just take a rest for the next 15 minutes. And if you're pointing at a person who has their hand up, but you don't know what the story is, you're worse than the person who tells the story from out of state.

And now, George will choose the hometown. I'm choosing. And you're going to go, let's see. I don't know, I hate this so much. Yeah, the pointing thing, yeah, the one, yes, that you're pointing at. Yes. Go over there. Thank you.

Thank you. Give us those faces, will you? Can we have those back? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Oh my God.

Thank you. Hi. You did it properly. Hi everybody. Hi. Nice to meet you. I'm a Craigler, so I haven't drank too much. Yeah, I should not drink because she's pregnant.

Oh yeah. Are you sure? Margaret, where are you from? Okay, well I'm from Florida, but this is a Colorado hometown promise. Are you really from Florida? Are you really? Holy shit. You have to admit I'm psychic.

You're psychic. Okay. So 2006, I worked with a psychopath named Travis Forbes for about one or two years, worked with him. So let's fast forward to 2011. Wait, where did you work with him? Can't say. Well, let's just say it was a local natural food store.

Okay. Okay. And... And Denver. Yeah. Okay. So... Whole Foods?

No. That's alright. No, we get warmer though. Okay. So then let's fast forward to 2011. There's this 19-year-old girl named Kenya Monet, and she went out in downtown. She was out in Lodo. She was going to go to one club.

I guess she couldn't get in, probably because she was 19. So then she goes to another, like she didn't tell her friends I'm not coming to that club, whatever. So she meets, she goes with these girls that she met in the cab. She's like, alright, let's go to this other club. So whenever she gets really wasted, I guess, I think she left her phone and wallet in the club with these new girlfriends or hers. So then she's stumbling the streets of Denver.

She's all wasted. And a guy pulls up and is like, do you need a ride home? I don't know why she got in the car with him, et cetera, but she did. And she's never, she's not seen again the next day. I guess the friends got her phone and wallet back to her parents. They're going through her phone. There's like all these worried text messages. This and that.

One catches her dad's attention that says, hi, this is Travis. I hope you made it home okay last night. So then, you know, he's kind of the number one suspect at this point. The dad calls the cops. They're getting on this Travis Forbes guy. He has, I think, like some criminal drug, maybe theft, whatever, but nothing major. So they're following him around. He says, okay, well, I just dropped her off at a gas station.

She wanted some cigarettes. I think she got a ride with another guy and I never saw her again and I really hope she made it home safe, whatever. So yeah, so time goes on and they're trying to follow him. I think he like stole a car, fled to Texas all of a sudden. They were tracking his cell phone records that night and they pinged his cell phone out in the plains of Colorado, like northeast of here, whatever. So that happens and so what happens next, sorry.

So then his white van, he has a white van, okay, hopefully she didn't get in that because then that's like a really red flag. The worst red flag of all time. So the cops get in his white van and it's just like reeks of bleach, there's new carpet. He makes his own gluten-free granola at this point. He's like owning his own company. So they have video footage of him going to his bakery space that he's renting out from another lady with a huge cooler, dragging this huge cooler into a walk-in freezer.

And they're like, that's weird. You don't usually have to freeze granola. Like what's he doing? Then he like turns off the camera so they're like, okay, this guy's sketchy. So they just don't quite have enough on him yet. So then three months later, it's July 4th, he's in Fort Collins. So there's like fireworks, Fort Collins, 4th of July, whatever. So he finds another girl, he wants to attack, I guess, and gets back to her apartment, rapes,

thinks he beats her to death, covers her body of bleach and sets her apartment on fire. Well, that girl turns out she's a badass, right? So she wakes up, jumps out of her second floor, she's like in a coma, so she's in the hospital in a coma. They get underneath her fingernails and find DNA and it's Travis Forbes' DNA. Holy shit. So then they have him in jail for the attempted murder and arson of this second girl and that's when he, under pressure of the detectives, confesses that he, that Kenya Monet, the night

of her disappearance, passed out. He raped her once, decided he could do it one more time. She woke up the second time and he killed her, buried her in a shallow grave in the plains of Colorado and now he is going to be serving life in prison without parole. For the first girl and another 48 years for the second attempt. Perfectly done. Yes. That was great.

Yes. You knew him? Yeah. I invited him to my keg party once, like when we worked together, like we kind of, there was some crew that went out for happy hours and it like haunts, it haunts me later, like I invited him, he calls me, he's like, hey, Margaret, I'm not going to make it to your party. I haven't been drinking lately, I stopped drinking, I'm worried about what I might do if I get

drunk tonight. He said something super creepy like that. Did he seem creepy? Just never think about that again. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah.

Margaret, amazing job. Margaret? Amazing. So good. Great job. So good. Great job. That's for you.

Yeah. Yeah. Great job. Wow. Oh, that's awful. Oh my God. You know what that story made me think, though, is that I love, now we know like this community of murderinos, like we see a girl who's alone or she's our friend or she's someone we meet

in a cab and we don't let her walk off alone. No. Never. We don't do that now. Even if it's someone we don't fucking know, we go up and say, honey, let me take care of you. Yes. Why not?

Because, yeah. Because come on. Good job, guys. That made me start crying. Just the idea of it. I think people know to do that already, but I think there's something about this wave of like true crime popularity, people being able to say, yeah, I like it. I'm interested.

I follow this. I already know about all this stuff. I've seen this story four times. That now is emboldening people to be like, yeah, I'm going to be the person that walks them and goes, are you okay? Okay, great. I don't want to get in your face, but I do want to be here if you need me. And that enables other people to reach out and say, I do need you.

Like, that's a thing that you guys are doing. We're just up here talking about our fucking, my gray roots that are growing in constantly. But this community is, as we always say, but it's really true. It's this beautiful thing that has grown up out of something so regular and casual to us that's now just, we just get to watch it grow and it's so impressive and you are giving us, you're making all our dreams come true. We get to do all the stuff that we love to do. And it's because you like it and you support it and you come out and we'll never be able

to thank you enough. So thank you so, so much. And thanks for another amazing show, Denver. We fucking love it here. This was perfection. This was perfection. I was worried. They said, they said this show is sold out and it's 5,000 seats and I'm like, it's going

to be fucking mayhem. It's going to be, I'm going to have to yell at every single individual person. How can I control this? And you guys were a beautiful, perfect audience. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening.

We adore you guys. Stay saved. Do God's mission. Yes. Always. Please. I always want to send that message. But more than that, stay sexy.

And don't get mad. Stay sexy. And don't get mad. Stay sexy. Stay sexy. Stay sexy. Stay sexy. Stay sexy.

Stay sexy. Stay sexy.