My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 175 - Live at the Civic Center Music Hall in Oklahoma City

Episode Date: May 30, 2019

Karen and Georgia cover the High Hat Club Killer and the Oklahoma City Butcher.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. What's up Oklahoma City? Wow, wow, wow, wow.

Hey, wait a second. Is that from a lawn? It does not look like what they stick out. Like, don't walk over here on this lawn. We just planted tulips. Holy shit, you guys. Wow. Truly, wow.

Dude. Next level. Yeah. Next level. Clapping. Yeah. Eardrums. Who needs them?

Boom. That's the goal, right? Blow out all eardrums. Jesus. First of all, are we in space? That's my first question. Is this normally a basketball arena? They put chairs in.

It's quite large. Yeah. How are you guys? We didn't have anything prepared. We didn't know you guys. We didn't think it was going to be this intense between us. We just thought, I thought it was cash. I thought it was cash.

I thought it was cash. I thought it was cash. I thought it was cash. My boots. Thank you. Oh, yeah. Get into it. Why not get right into it then if she wants you to?

Here was the risk. Here was the risk. When we went and did the grand old offering two weekends ago, right beforehand, I was reading some emails in our account. And one of them was like, here's my hometown. I'm going to get my boots because we make fun of all the tourists and bachelorette parties who do that. So I was like, great, and I wore heels.

But then I was like, well, what about Closetal Missinni? He's okay with it. And I really want to wear them. Yeah. Thank you. They don't have rules here. They're not trying to get up in our business about don't do this and we'll laugh at you if that.

They're just like, come and listen to us scream, please. And to be fair, in LA, we make fun of this too. So I don't know what I was thinking. I feel like these days, everybody's a target and they should be. Buck up. That's right. Deal with it. I love that outfit though.

It's really good. Thank you. This was made by a murderer for specifically us. Sarah Duke from Toronto. When we were there, she gave us dresses. Georgia tried to remind me of this moment. And I was just like, give me something else. I don't know.

She boxes. She's like, she gave us dresses in line. I'm like, no, nothing's coming back. Nothing at all. Maybe you didn't like yours. No. Ooh, don't say that. Pockets.

Yeah. Pockets. Two pockets. What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was able to get this fucking A cup to get cleavage of all things. Yes. I've never, this is like, everyone look. Yeah. They want to.

It's great. They're great. It feels like, I feel like a grownup. Like I, like, you know, when you try in your mom's shoes and I try to my mom's boobs and walk down. Janet, what's up, Janet? Does Janet have tiny boobs? Janet has store bought.

Stephen marked this already. Janet has store bought boobs. Oklahoma city. That is the secret for you to keep in this room. That is, that goes straight into the vault. I don't know if she cares. I think she's proud of it. Yeah.

Lookie. She fucking breastfed three. Why am I telling everyone this? Yeah. I am. But my dad recently, we were hanging out and he, he was smart. I've had a lot of coffee and I'm just dominating. No, I hope you do.

He said to me, you know, when I'm in the audience and you start talking bad about your mom, I just want you to know, I don't care. Cause he's, it's fine. Cause I'm always like, I'm sorry dad. He's like, I don't care. Marty. Guess a lot of shit went down between them. Guess so.

I mean, look, what is it? And the mock says, listen, sorry. Sorry to interrupt the now call and response show that we're doing everywhere we go. Everybody, everybody does it. Um, I was just going to say Anne Lamont, the great writer has an amazing quote, right? Uh, where she talked to his people. She teaches writing classes and people want to do autobiographical stuff. But then they're like, I feel bad writing about my family and the stuff that they did.

And she says, well, if they didn't want to get written about, they shouldn't have acted like that, which is the best. That's right. So you get to say what you want. Yeah. May 28th. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered.

The book, we did that. Talk about saying what we want and then only realizing afterwards that a whole bunch of people are going to read it. That's a weird thing about writing a book. It's for others. Right. Odd. It's very odd.

Too much lotion. I'm sweating. No, it's sweat. This is a dress by Simply B. Thanks. But I almost don't want to play along because it does not have pockets. I know. I'm sorry. It's store bought.

Those are little kitten heels. I love them. We got these for free from some clothing place at some point. I don't remember that. And I remember when I got them, I'm like, I don't look like a goat if I wear those. But I feel like it's spring and the goat look suits me. You know what I mean? I like it.

I think it's good. What a goat. These are my hooves. Do you want to live deliciously? Anybody? Can we get some grass out here for Karen? Oh, no. I wanted to apologize.

When we pulled into the theater tonight, we got out of the car and some bags. Some best friends of ours pulled up in their car and then just screamed at the top of their lungs at us. And I turned and looked. I don't know what you did because you're on the other side of the car. I just stared at them because the screaming was so intense. I thought they were looking for the emergency room or they were being chased. I was just kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

And then they just were like, visit us. I was like, I got to get out of here. What if they were doing that? And the other girl that they were yelling, where is the emergency room, was going, hi, that was me. Hi. They ended up they were just, come in. But they were like, we need to know who the fuck are you?

We're bleeding so much blood in this car. Okay. Nice to see you. So anyway, sorry gals. I'll scream back at you next time. Louder. Yeah. And longer.

Yeah. I'm just sometimes screaming like at six o'clock is jarring. In the afternoon or in the morning? When it's still light outside and someone screams at you from a car, it's scary. Uh-huh. That's fair. Thank you. I know they meant well.

I just feel like I know my face can get pretty serious and scary sometimes. And I hadn't blow-dried my hair yet. So I'm sure there is a real. You look like one of the witches from Macbeth turned around. Stared at him. I didn't mean it like that. I didn't mean it. Speaking of, this is my favorite murder.

This is my favorite murder. This is my favorite murder, guys. This is Karen Kilgaran. This is Georgia Hardstark. Thank you. Thank you so much. Steven is home. That's right.

That's right. We're sad too. He's not allowed here. His mustache would get in a fight with someone else's mustache. Then we'd have to bail him out again. The thing about having a performative mustache like many men do in LA is that when you come to the Midwest and the center of the nation, you often get into gunfights that you aren't prepared for.

You bring your mustache to a gunfight. It doesn't end well. Steven has a... I'm going to talk some shit. No, I'm not. He has like a... Steven, mark this about yourself. Take this out. He's like a chia pet.

He just like... He'll have this perfect cloth to everything. Then you see in like two months, everything kind of expands. Yeah. Then he goes and buys another chia pet. He's just like, it's not... It's just like you can see how he's doing by his hair growth. I hope he's selling that hair to wig makers and cancer centers all across the nation. He could make so much money. Truly.

I was trying to think, there's a couple of corrections corners I have. It's fun to do them live. If something just gets posted, then you just do it live. The word I was trying to think of was Victorian. That means anything to anyone from the other day. I kept talking about a rough and then I dove into the Renaissance, something I know almost nothing about and got real scared and froze. Then whoever... Some friend of ours walked up and goes, Victorian.

I was like, yes. Yes. Still no next to nothing about it. I couldn't have helped you, even if you had gotten it right. Yeah. There's a lot of areas we should not go into. Truly. As you know.

Yeah. Here we go. Yeah. Here we are. Sit down time. Yeah. Someone stole these from the bar at the residence in. Hey, are you in town on business?

I feel like I'm at a cafe in the 90s. Let's see, I'll have a Cosmo with a gold schlager back. Put your napkin on your lap. Oh, thank you. Excuse me, could we get service? We haven't even seen anybody. Can we get service? Looking for a better cooking routine?

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You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Trying so hard to eat healthy. Don't yell chicken nuggets, please. Oh, so don't yell. Who goes first tonight? It's me. Okay. Someone recently and I...

Can you see with... Don't show me. Is that mine or yours? Do you recognize it? Nope. No, I know yours. Shit. Well, you're good.

I know. I'm going to be second jump in time. Oh, but first we have to say to all the people who are brought here against their will by people who listen. Yes, you're everywhere. So many of you wasting tickets. So sometimes when people hear that this is a true crime comedy podcast and they haven't heard it and they don't know as they get offended because they believe

that comedy and true crime, which is basically comedy and murder, don't belong together and they think that's wrong and bad. And so we just like to start the show by explaining that George and I have loved true crime. We've been fascinated by it ever since we were really young. But we also, since we were really, really young have processed anxiety, fear and pain through humor. And so those things...

Right? Those things go together for us and conversationally make sense for us to talk about the worst things and then relieve ourselves. I was going to say. Anywhere we please. Verbally relieve ourselves. Right in the corner. That's right.

In front of each other. And blah, blah, blah. You've heard this million times. Essentially, if you're offended, get the fuck out is what we're saying. Okay. They know. They know. Tonight I'm going to do the hi-hat club murder.

I got this information from TulsaWorld.com. My God. You guys love the internet. Yeah. The internet is huge, first of all. Oh my God. Because it actually contains a Tulsa world. Can you imagine?

Oh my God. How expansive must it be? Truly. Can you imagine doing this? Never mind. Say it. That was real dumb. You've got to say it now.

Without the internet. But then there wouldn't be a buck. Knocking on doors. Would you listen to this cassette of me and my friend talking? It's a ton of inside jokes. Oh, your boyfriend won't like it. He won't like it. You're going to have to go into a different room.

Thank you. Great. I'll be back in two months to hear if you like it or not. Get ready with a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Yeah. We might, maybe we should start doing it that way. Tapes? More, yeah.

Or door knocking. Door knocking, grass roots, you know, home to home. I think that's what we're doing. Oh, yeah. We'll put more flyers in record stores. Yeah, we should. Cafes. Okay.

Tulsa world is where I went to get some of this information. Great. You remember. Absolutely. Also, there's a website called malifactorsregister.com, which, yeah, has a lot of great information. And then there's an author named Jason Lucky Morrow who does an amazing website called historicalcrimedetective.com. And he wrote a book about this case called Deadly Hero, the high society murder that

created hysteria in the heartland. Are you ready? Are they mad? No. What'd you say? Are they mad? No. We don't call it the heartland anymore.

It's going to be one of those. Okay. She threw her napkin down and walked off. She's livid. Waiter, we need to check. You got to snap. You got to snap at him. That's right.

That's the only way. Snap and grab at their apron as they walk by. They love it. They love it. Okay. Let's begin. November, 1934. Yeah.

I like the old ones. The old ones for live shows are awesome because all the references are there of your local shit, but then it's not super recent. You don't have to be like tense or super bummed. And then we can make all the hideous jokes we want to. That's my, that's what I'm bringing to the table. That's what I enjoy. Okay.

So, in 1934, 21-year-old John Goral Jr. has just returned home to Tulsa spending Thanksgiving with his father, John Goral, Sr. That's right. You got him. Oh. I get so scared when you point at me that I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. I understand.

I just, right as I was going to do that, someone screamed something like a chicken and now I want to know what it is, but I don't want to encourage it. They said senior, like a chicken. But they said like, yeah. Because they also have tension when someone's pointed at, just not when it's pointed at someone else. They want to be a hero. Yeah.

And I appreciate it. Hey, we all do. Listen. We all do. Okay. So, John and John eating Thanksgiving dinner together. John Sr. is a wealthy and prominent doctor. Jr. has been living in Kansas City where he's been attending dental school to become a dentist.

That's right. Yes. Yes. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. There he is. Oh, that's.

Hey. What? No. That's not allowed. Oh my God. Don't mean shame them. This isn't a hot or not test for fuck's sake. What are you?

Sorry. Aren't we not about that guys? Tighten it up. I think he's cute. Seriously, my worst fucking fear. Oh, no. Let's see what this next hundred. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Yo. Okay. But in their defense, would you want that guy to be your dentist? Yes or no? Yes. You know why? Why? Because he has one big tooth and that shows priorities.

That's what he's about. Yeah. Now I'm offended. I have to say though, there are other pictures of him. Yeah. Jay picked this. After I picked it, like it approved everything because he's like, here's this picture. Here's this picture.

I picked it and then I looked for a different picture and another one of him came up and it was a real before or after. It was like a Mori Povich episode of like, I used to be ugly, but now I'm fly or whatever. It looks like whoever got cast in the made for TV movie is actually himself. Yeah. But he's hot. Yeah. Got it.

It might just be that the sun was at a certain point in the sky. Sure. You know how it was back then. Yeah. The sun was always in different places. Fucking. You were like a human sundial sometimes. God.

All right. All right. Let's. Yeah. That's him. Great. Can you tell me if my brush, I'm not used to this. Yeah.

Just like let me know. Yeah. It sucks, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. Yeah. Flopping all over the place. It'd be like, hey slut, pull your dress up. That sucks.

I'm sorry. You went through that. I won't. I won't do that to you. No, no, no. I mean, it sucks that you've experienced. No one's ever called me a slut in my life. God.

That's the dream. That's what we're trying to get to. I know. God. I'll get there. I'm going to get there one day. Yeah, you will. Don't worry.

Thank you. It's going to be hard without liquor, but I think I can do it. I think I can. Hey, man, we're on tour. Like, let's go wild. Hey, fucking. Residence in. It's up.

Pull the dress half off the shoulder. Karen, put your clothes on. Karen, stop it. Karen, it's 730. Okay. Where's my spot? We're back in. And the Johns are eating dinner.

Okay. Beautifully with beautiful souls and spirits. Okay. And then afterwards, John Jr. goes out to meet up with a friend named Charles Bard. Bard is a student at the Oklahoma Agricultural and Mechanical College. Oh, sure. Oh, someone's mad at them. Yeah.

That, you know what it is? That's the rival animal husbandry college that they're like, no, no, no. Don't bring that agricultural mechanical bullshit over here. Then there's an FFA section in the back. We'll kick all your asses. John and Charles, pick up some girls. Okay. And they all go out for a drive, which is the only thing to do in 1934.

You better drive around. So around 1030, John drops off Bard and the girls and he tells them he's got, quote, an important appointment that he has to get to and then he drives away. Okay. Right. It's not a red flag yet. It's not. He kicked them all out of the car with his cowboy boot or whatever.

That's right. Then they get a red flag. Get out. Yeah. Around midnight that night, a man named Wesley Cunningham. Oh, come on. Right. Made up.

I picture Wesley Cunningham to look like, like, alfalfa from our gang. Like, his hair is parted down the middle and then greased to the sides. Yeah. His hands are in his pocket and he's whistling. Yep. I'm sorry. I'm thinking of Jughead from the Archie comics. That's a different, that's a different person.

Didn't know the difference. Okay. So, Wesley Cunningham, he's walking through an affluent neighborhood near the Philbrook Museum. Look at it. Look at this fucking rich people's museum they have in Tulsa. Damn, guys. We'll play there tomorrow night.

We'll play there tomorrow night. Yeah. We're going to be playing on this lawn tomorrow night. So, as I was pulling the picture for that, I did this one and I looked, I just looked up real quick to see what the, what the Philbrook was all about. And they have Andrew Wyeth paintings there who's my favorite painter. So, let's really quick. Just look.

Oh, look at my dog. That's George. That's my dog. That's beautiful. Now, I don't know if that's the real name or if I just told Jay that the name of the painting was dog and barn. But then there's this one. Win from the sea.

Have you ever seen this? Have you seen this shit where someone paints a painting and then paints lace curtains over it? No. How did he do that? Karen, can I tell you how impressed and kind of intimidated I am that you have a favorite painter? Oh.

Am I flexing on you right now? All right. I'm impressed. It's working. You like art? No, I do. Wait. I'm going to sell you on this one.

Okay. No, I'm in. I'm in. Oh, okay. He's my favorite painter now too. Okay. Well, no, no, you have to pick a different one. There's 10.

Okay. He's famous for the painting Christina's world. Okay. Which of course, so I find this one right now to show Christina's books. That's what he's famous for. I literally know this from Google's images. It's not like I go to the museum or anything like that. Okay.

Yeah. I'll be like, look at that painting of a feather. Oh, that one's Andrew Wyeth. And then I've done that enough time. So then I'm like, he's my favorite painter. There's no book learning involved. Sorry, art school graduates. Yes.

Sorry, Olive Tulsa and the Phil Brook Foundation. This is a very, this painting is parodied a lot. Okay. Do you remember? That sucks. It was like 10 years ago, there was a sit-in at UC Davis. Yeah. And this guy just walked by and straight up fucking pepper sprayed like just a sitting

group of 19 year olds just walked by and right in their face. Goodbye. And then someone is genius enough to fucking do this, which is why I love modern life so much. The internet. They think of everything. Then of course not to be partisan, but there's this one which I fucking love. Come on.

You have to admit it's funny. Oh my God. Amazing. There was also one of Lisa Simpson and the house on the hill is pink. But whoever drew it, I was like, I don't know about the stability of whoever drew this. It was clearly not like official, official merch. Okay.

Art Corner is over. Back to the story. Okay. Wesley Cunningham. So he's walking near that museum. Painting. Okay. Painting.

Got it. Museum. He is. Wesley Cunningham is Andrew Wyeth's fake name. So he's walking in the neighborhood, fancy neighborhood, high end neighborhood. He sees one lone car parked by itself on the corner and then he notices all the surrounding street lights are out. So he walks over to the car.

Don't do that. Right. He walks away from the car to see what's going on. He finds the body of John Goral Jr. slumped over in the front seat with two bullet holes in his temple and a.22 caliber gun laying at his side. So obviously the police are called and then they begin to investigate the scene and they discover that the.22 belongs to John Goral Jr. But judging by the body's position, it's not, suicide is not possible.

So hey, he shot himself twice in the head. You can't do that. Very good point. I feel like I've repeated that point so many times. Really nice thinking. Thank you. I went to art school. I went to college.

He could have shot himself and I'm like, quick, quick, quick, quick. Who knows? Oh, you do. Yeah, that's right. I just told you. Yeah, you told me. Then as they investigate, they realize all the street lights have been shot out. What?

Yeah. I don't like that. That is a red flag. That is a red flag. Put the red flag on your lawn of suspicion because some tulips of murder about to grow up out of it. Am I right? Okay.

Good one. It's the suicide thing, but got that one perfectly. All right. So basically the entire scene is very unnerving and suspicious, much like Andrew Wyeth's Christina's world. All right. So the investigators have no immediate leads. John Girl Jr. has no known enemies, police record.

They don't know who could have killed him, why anyone would want him dead. But then, luckily, a local airplane pilot named Floyd Huff comes forward with an interesting story. He's every man. Yeah. Literally. Look at that smirk. He of course knows something.

He knows something. You know what he knows? What? How to fly. Oh, that's pretty good. That's the smug smirk of a man who can fly in the air, unlike many of us. So Floyd comes forward and he's like, I think you guys are going to want to hear this story. He was in Kansas City shortly before Thanksgiving and while he was there, he was approached

by a young man who wanted to hire him to fly him to Tulsa because the weather conditions were bad. Floyd Huff said, no, thank you. But he told the young man he was planning on driving there himself and he offered him a ride. So the man accepted and during the ride, the young man told Huff outright that he planned to kill John Girl Jr. You got to keep your mouth shut sometimes, people.

Yeah, but you know on a road trip when like a good song comes on and you've been on the road for like half an hour, you're just, you're feeling a real kinship in that car. Yeah. Shared a bag of Cheetos or whatever, 1934 Cheetos, which was just seeds. It was just four seeds in someone's, the palm of someone's hand. So in Huff's own words, he said the man, quote, said that Goral was plotting to extort $20,000 from Homer Wilcox, the millionaire oilman under the threat of kidnapping Wilcox's daughter, Virginia or her brother, Homer Jr.

And here's Virginia Wilcox. Nope. Shit. No, but who's that? That's not her either. Okay. Spoiler alert. Wait, wait, wait, so these rich people, we're going to get kidnapped by the guy who found

dead. Yes. And so this dude was going to kill that guy. This dude was basically ratting out the dead guy. Boarding the kidnapping. And saying he was going to kidnap these people and I'm going to go kill him. Okay. Yeah, essentially.

We're there with you. Are we here? Yes. We're here with Virginia Wilcox. So the young man tells Floyd the entire fucking plan. He explains that he first considered renting a plane and shoving Goral out of it while they were in the air. That was plan one.

That's ambitious. Yeah. And then he was like, you know what, I'm going to go back to the drawing board on this one. Hard to convince someone to get onto a plane so you can then push them off the plane. Absolutely. So then the young man told Floyd he said he thought it might be easier just to stab Goral instead. And at that point he pulls out a huge hunting knife and a pair of rubber gloves and shows

them. And the guy just kicks him out of the car. And the guy takes him to a plane and then shoves him out of it. No. I guess he just does that thing that everybody always does when they're uncomfortable, which is, oh, and then continues to drive for another however many hours. So when authorities ask Floyd Huff to identify who this man is, he names 19-year-old Philip Kenimer, who is, as you can very obviously tell, the son of a very highly respected Oklahoma

federal judge named Franklin E. Kenimer. You'd never suspect from that level of smarm that he's a federal judge's son, would you? No. No. Never. Okay. Is that a Diane von Furzeberg wraparound blazer that he's wearing? I don't get how that jacket buttons.

It's a devil-breasted suit. Am I making that up? I could never. Yeah, but I mean, it's way over. That's true. Because people had, no, people's had waist this size back then. Everyone. They fucking sure did.

Men, women, children, animals. I think there's really something to eating seeds as Cheetos. That might really be the key. You were on to something. Okay. Let's write that one down, Stephen. Put it on the list. Put it on the list.

That's going to be our new diet plan. No more Cheetos. Seeds. And just all different types of bird seed. I'd rather just drink water, honestly, than eat seeds. You can. Water's on the diet. Okay.

Yeah. It's seeds and water and now and later's. And then, of course, chicken McNuggets. Okay. Which I tried to order last night. We did the whole, sorry, we did the whole thing of like getting into the hotel late so there was nothing open and then we found on the app Vincent and I that McDonald's was open and they'll deliver and we were like green and like put our order in and shit.

And then it was like, sorry, it's closed. Like we have picked our sauces. It's not that big of a deal. But there is a kind of a, the hunger builds as you're on that app. Yeah. Tell me before. Also, because you know, when you're on the app, that's, that's what's bad about those apps is instead of talking to somebody on the phone and being like, and that's all I'll

have. Oh, wait. Oh, sorry. Also a green salad. If you do any of that, you're on an app. So then you're like, two apple pies. Yeah. What kind of ice cream items do you have?

Do they travel? Yeah. Do they travel well? Well, they're not made of real ice or cream, so they travel great. They stay exactly the way they come out of that machine. They stay that way for four hours. You shouldn't eat it. But do it anyway.

But you gotta love it. Okay. So, the police notified Judge Kettimer of the accusation, and he actually, of course, very begrudgingly, but he turns his son in. Yeah. Imagine. No. So on December 1st, 1934, which is only two days after John Garell Jr.'s body was found.

So the police questioned Phil Kettimer, the son. He admits that he did the shooting, but he explains that it was in self-defense. So he says that the extortion plot that Floyd Hough described that he was talking about was real, but that it was John Garell Jr.'s idea, and that he wanted to call it off. Phil wanted to call it off because he had feelings for Virginia Wilcox. Let's see if she's here now. It's not going to... I was thinking of her as a child, so let's make sure she's not.

A child? I thought it was a child the whole time. Oh, because she was going to get kidnapped? Yeah. Is that weird? She's going to get... Is that ageism? Ladynapped.

All right. Let's see. Not that one. There she is. Oh, shit. I've got feelings for her, too. Yeah. Look at the eyebrows.

They're even... Okay. Also, she has that look, and just like, the 30s. It's not great. Still good. I'm this pretty, and I still have to do the dishes by hand with bleach. Okay, we have to go back one. All right.

So, it's all over her, right? He says, he basically, that John Girl had this extortion plot. They were going to kidnap her, but that because Phil had feelings for her, he wanted to protect her. So, okay. So, he was supposed to mail the letter, but he wouldn't do it because he suddenly realized this could put Virginia in peril. And so, he went to that night, Thanksgiving night.

He went to Garell to tell them that he had not mailed the ransom note, and he begged him, according to Phil, he begged him not to go through with the plot, but John Garell Jr. refused, and they start arguing, and that's when Kenner threatens to go to the police with that ransom note he never sent. And that's when John Garell pulls out that 22, goes to shoot Kenner. They get into like a scuffle, and Phil Kenner says that in the chaos, he's not sure how it happened, but one of them pulled the trigger, and John Garell Jr. got shot twice in the head.

You know how sometimes when you're scuffling and you win, you double. You win, and then you celebrate, which is wrong. Okay. Got it. And then you shoot all the fucking lights out of him. Yeah, then you're like, pooh, you saw motherfucker, I'm back. So of course for minimum two, if not more reasons, the cops are not buying this story. So they question the people closest to Phil Kenner to get a better sense of his character.

They find out that he's known for being an arrogant, rich kid, shocking. He's smart, but he doesn't apply himself at school or work. He's known to be an attention seeker who loves being in the spotlight, but only if he's being praised. I don't see the problem with any of these things, actually, not retracting my judgment of this person. He rejects any sort of negative criticism about himself. What?

That's stupid. Waiter, we need that check. This is getting, it's bad now. Okay. So they also say that Phil Kenner had gone out with Virginia Wilcox, he had taken her out on her first date, but she almost immediately lost interest in him. If she ever had it in the first place, and the spoiler later on in the trial, she goes on the stand and basically goes, I don't know that guy.

Oh, yeah. Ouch. You try to save someone by shooting someone else, and this is the way. And this is how they repay you, by shaming you. And unfortunately, Phil was in love, and he was angry that she did not share his feelings. So then the cops go to talk to the friends of John Gorell, and that's when they discover a little thing that was a secret in Tulsa among the wealthiest young men. They had started a gang of thrill seekers, that's in quotes, a gang of thrill seekers

called the High Hat Club. Oh. Right. And there's a bunch of, there's lots of oil money that you guys know, but Georgia might not know. There's a lot of oil money around these parts, and I guess up in Tulsa, and there are lots and lots of what they may have called back then the Nouveau Riche. And so it was people who had basically been busting their ass on these oil wells, and

then they hit it big, and suddenly they're like millionaires in 1934. And so then their children are the worst, right? It's almost always how it happens, pretty much. That's the equation. Yeah. But it's very new, like the money, the parents aren't used to the money, so then the kids, they don't know how to kind of amoderate it, I guess, so is what they were talking about. So here's the initiation to get into the High Hat Club.

You drink 10 glasses of beer, then you have to drive 60 miles an hour around a corner on a street. Come on. That's dangerous and nerdy. It's so fucking dorky. So dorky. And you know those cars didn't go 60 miles an hour back, didn't they? They can't.

They have to like wind up the old fucking Jalopy. Oh, we're doing it together. Wind it up. Yep. Then you have to let it idle for 45 minutes, so the engine warms up. Do you know my fucking father? It's 2019 and he still tells you you have to wait for the engine to warm up in his car. Don't just drive it.

I'm like, dad, whatever thing you're thinking of literally doesn't exist anymore. Like this car engine is a computer and you're 100. Love you, dad. I owe it all to you. My dad doesn't mind when you talk shit about your dad on stage. Marty's fine with it. He's totally fine. Oh, also at the end of that initiation, you have to smoke pot and have sex.

So yeah. What you know is swag back then to sex, I mean, just weird bits of sex that no one wants, seeds and stems of sex. Are you going to put that on my shoulder? What? It doesn't go like that. Please don't blow that in my face. Thank you.

Oh my God. Sorry. I was reading. I was reading. I was reading. I was reading. I'm sorry because this always happens. I'll write a dumb joke underneath the thing, but now we're too far away.

I'm going to say it anyway. Okay. Say it. They call it an initiation. I call it a standard Wednesday night. Thank you. Oklahoma. Thank you, balconies.

The balconies are the ones I love the most. I didn't mean it. Okay. God. I'm just terrible, terrible comedy. Okay. So once they're in the gang, the hi-hat members are free to then engage in activities like smuggling drugs.

What kind? Was anything illegal back then? I don't think it was. I feel like all of it was really encouraged. Yeah, yeah. I think, well, no, this was past the old, put some cocaine on it when you had to cut time. I think so. 34?

34? We got to get a drug dealer in here to answer some of these questions. Vince? No. I just fucking threw my husband under the bus. See? See? That's what bad comedy does to us.

Oh, shit. Waiter. Will you get that eight ball ready for us? Vince has it. Vince has it in his pocket. We're going to split the tap. God. I would be literally dead if I still did that.

Okay, so what I love is that the cops had no idea that this was going on, or they did. And of course, they just simply didn't do anything about it because all the kids in the hi-hat club were the richest of the rich and all their parents were super connected. So they probably came around that corner going 60, shit-faced on 10 glasses of bad beer, killed four families, and then they're like, just let him go, he's a nice white boy. So, okay, so they discovered that not only are both John Groll Jr. and Phil Kenimer members of the hi-hat gang, but so is Homer Wilcox, one of the intended victims of the would-be kidnapping and extortion.

So basically, when the rest of Tulsa finds out about the hi-hat gang, they fucking lose their shit. Everybody freaks out because, of course, today's standards, those things aren't that big of a deal. But back in 1934, it was a conservative town. It was traditional, and they believed all of this was pure, Satan-induced insanity. The best kind. So they start to fear for the welfare of their own kids.

They're scared that no one, not even the good little rich boys, are safe from the pitfalls of evil influence, which is like super backwards. So the police also find that on the night of the killing, a small crew of the hi-hat members had taken Kenimer to, like, driven him around town. The president of the hi-hat club. It was a president, see, they're just fucking nerds, they're nerds with drugs. Nineteen-year-old son of the director of petroleum research at the local college, his name was Sidney Bourne.

Let's see if we will get to, no, it's that fucking picture again. There's she, okay, her, we know it's about her. There he is. Okay. I'm the president. I can do anything I want. I call president, I call president. Fine, I'll be sergeant at arms.

So Sidney had driven Phil Kenimer to the spot where Kenimer killed John Goral Jr. on Thanksgiving night. And then on December 9th, just a week after Phil Kenimer is apprehended, a random driver passes by Sidney Bourne's car, finds him inside dead from a bullet wound. No way. Yes. And in his lap was his father's revolver. And the location of the car was not far from where John Goral Jr.'s body was found.

Just some revel without a car shit. Yeah, it's nuts, it's connected, and it goes, okay, but unlike John Goral Jr., Sidney Bourne's death is ruled a suicide, although the hype and hysteria surrounding the case makes many people believe that it could be another gang-related murder, maybe because it was exactly like the first one. I don't know. Maybe it's hysteria. Right, and then to further complicate things, the police then arrest Homer Wilcox Jr., Virginia

Wilcox's brother. For his own kidnapping? For, they figure out and are able to prove he's the one that shot the lights out. Oh. Yeah. Why? Well, they say when they're arrested for it, of course they get released with a fine because the whole thing's chalked up to, quote, malicious mischief, fucking assholes.

They say that they were just out shooting out lights for fun. You know, those mean and old lights. We shoot, we like to shoot out lights and then see if the glass will go in our eyes. Because we're the hi-hat club. We have a song, ready? Ready, fellas? Ready? Na na na na.

Put that glass right in our eyes, we're the hi-hat club. What's happening? This is too long. It's taking too long. This is taking too long. They decide that they're shooting out the lights on the street where John Girl Jr. was murdered is just a coincidence, even though the decreased visibility would have helped Kenmer carry out the murder in secret.

Anyway, after he hears about Sidney Bourne's death, Phil Kenmer starts to spill it. And he reveals that he was also involved in the extortion scheme. He admits that he was a part of it. He then explains to the cops that he was only involved so he could project Virginia Wilcox because he was in love with her and had been for years. He had taken her out on our first date that I said, and he had apparently, quote, penned odes to her beauty. So I guess poetry was a big part of that gang.

According to Kenmer, John Girl Jr. was, he was big into petty theft, but then he now wanted to move on to, quote, the big stuff. And so in the fall of 1934, when he's away at dental school, he comes up with this plot to kidnap Virginia and extort her father for money is what is the story he's telling the cops. The petty theft in dental school don't really flow together. I mean, he manages his time so well, though. He must.

He must. And we're just going to put a little bit more novocaine on that. Sorry, really quick. I'm going to steal $500 out of your purse. Don't panic. It's petty. It's not a big deal. So he, they write the extortion letter together for the kidnapping plot and then Goral gives

it to Kenmer to mail. Kenmer, of course, changes his mind, as I said. So Kenmer says that he went, he found John Goral Thanksgiving night, showed him the note, said, I didn't send it. I changed my mind. Please don't do this. Please don't do it for the sake of Virginia. And then, of course, the whole story about them fighting and accidentally shooting him

twice. So this is the picture that keeps coming up, but this, God damn it. Oh, well, that's, that's Sidney Bourne's car, the guy that they say committed suicide who was also in this gang. I guess we won't go back to that picture. It's not that important. So, oh, this, there is a good picture of him outside the courthouse, though. Let's see what we do.

Oh, this is him reading about himself in the newspaper. All right, buddy. And he's wearing an amazing Eileen Fisher jacket. It's ivory and dope. Are they letting him get a haircut or something? Looks like it. I don't know where that is. Okay, outside the courthouse when he goes to court, all these people are there.

So this is, this little factoid is absolutely my favorite and kind of the reason I picked this. The people of Tulsa are so gripped by this story. Well, first of all, they have to move the trial to Pawnee to accommodate all the spectators. Even with the move, the frenzied interest in the case is still so high that attendees literally rip the doors off the courthouse to get in. Nice. Yeah.

How bored do you have to be? I mean, this isn't. We have to see this. How dare you? Wow. Don't you love that? I just picture one kid hulking out and fucking pulling the door. You need a ton of corn.

That kid. Out of my way. Oh, this guy? Yeah, yeah. That little guy. He has, he's like, I have a secret. I can rip doors off of courthouses. Don't believe me?

Maybe I could be in the high hat gang. You little shit. Get out of here. It just makes me think of all the times people like ask us, you know, like, what do you think this thing is with this new trend and true crime interest? We're like, you're fucking ripping the doors off of courthouses in 1934. This is not new. Yeah.

The trial lasts 11 days. The prosecution claims that this concept of self-defense played no role in Kennermer's actions. They paint a picture of a highly dangerous killer who intended to kill John Groll Jr. They say that whole story and situation was just a ruse to win the affections of Virginia Wilcox and favor her family by positioning himself as a hero. And they, the prosecution asked for him to be sentenced to death in the electric chair. Yay.

They were just super fucking specific about it. And they're like, and we'll pick his last meal, birdseed and water. Okay. But Kennermer's defense team enters a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. And this pisses Phil Kennermer off. He doesn't like that because he sees himself as very intelligent, sane, and he's insulted. So despite his protests, they bring in psychiatrist, friends, family, even his own father to testify that he is actually insane.

And Judge Kennermer testifies that his son had enrolled, had been enrolled in and quit four different boarding and military schools. He was very emotional and at times very unreasonable. It might be the drugs. He testifies that he'd gotten Phil several jobs that he'd worked for a few weeks and then quit. And that his son talked of joining the French foreign legion saying it would be a good way to banish himself from decent society.

Sounds like half the people in LA that I know. It sounds like any 19 year old is like, I'm going to fucking join the French foreign legion. Good. Yeah, dad. Go. Do it. Let him. Okay.

So, so this is all supported by the testimony of the other high hatters who were out with Phil that night at the, they were hanging out at the old, the Owl Tavern. No, no, no, it must be a total shit hole. So apparently Phil Kennermer came in at nine o'clock around 930. He told everyone within Earshot that he was looking for John Goral Jr. because he wanted to kill him. Okay. And then he pulled out his large hunting knife that he loved to brandish.

And a high hatter named Randall BB Morton recalled the exchange he had where he said, quote, I said, Phil, maybe I better, I had better take that knife. I may want to use it going hunting. And I just reached over and got it and put it in my overcoat pocket. And he said, BB, are you going to send me out with these bare hands to kill Goral? And I said, yes, if that's the way you want to go, Phil. And he just walked out and left the tavern. I love that he's like a drunk driving friend who's like, taking your keys, buddy, get home

how you can, but you can't drive. Taking the knife, murder how you can. How about I hold onto this for you, friend? So essentially when it all gets sussed out, the jury deliberates for eight hours. And then on February 22, 1935, they find Philip Kennermer guilty of manslaughter. And he's sentenced to 25 years in prison. So, oh, that's him in court. All right.

What's up, Finger Waves? It feels like nothing existed in 1934. There's like nothing on the walls and it's just men in suits in a room. Not a single. Did you pull the door off or was it you? There's that. That's the newspaper. So, here's what's interesting.

So in the wake of Kennermer's trial, the High Hat Club has disbanded once and for all. As far as we know. There could be a shit ton of secret high hats in here right now. So while in prison, Kennermer files for several appeals, they're all denied. And it isn't until April 23, 1943, so he serves eight years in prison for manslaughter. And then Oklahoma Governor Robert S. Kerr grants him parole. When he's released, he immediately joins the army and becomes a paratrooper and in World War II.

Oh, wait, that's him. Shit. That's his first night in the army. He didn't like it. He said the bed was hard and the pillow wasn't very big. That's him going into the Oklahoma State Pen. Okay. Here's him going into the army eight years later.

Wow. This guy, on June 6, 1944, he parachutes into France on D-Day and remains in battle overseas until he's gunned down by a Nazi on August 15, 1944, and he dies at age 49. So before his death, he told a reporter, something just seems to tell me that I won't come back because they interviewed him when he was leaving for the war. Something tells me I won't come back. I hope that if I die under the flag of my country, those who have condemned me will hold me differently in their memories.

I will. Okay. One anonymous high-hatter, oh, and this is kind of what I said before, but one anonymous high-hatter explained the youthful ennui this way to the International News Service reporter. This whole trouble and Tulsa society is this. 40 years ago, these millionaires did not have a dime. They were workers in the oil fields, and their wives were just ordinary girls.

Some of them waitresses and the like, waitress. Then comes the golden flood of oil and gold. They had millions all of a sudden. They showered money, money, money on their children. Too many expensive automobiles, too much time to do nothing. And that is the rich and privileged story of the high-hatter's murder. Wow. Good job.

Thank you. Fucking fascinating. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Good. Here we go, everyone, I'm doing the Oklahoma City Butcher.

Get ready for some fucked up shit. Okay. Your favorite kind of shit. Yeah. All right. I got a lot of info. I like my shit straight, like right angle shit. Okay.

Okay. We can do it that way if you want. I got a bunch of information from, of course, Wikipedia and Reddit, our best friends. And also, 405magazine.com, but there was a great article called Lost OKC by MJ Alexander. She's this incredible writer and photographer. So and there's not like a ton of info about this one because it's a real bummer. Okay. So let's start right after World War II.

Great. In your boom. Let's start after mine ends. Perfect. We are. Okay. The post World War II era saw Oklahoma City become a major hub in the national interstate highway system.

So congratulations. Highways. Wait, that's not the 405 that goes all the way to us, is it? That's the magazine. Oh, that's a magazine called 405. It could have been a magazine about highways, shut up. And they would call it I-45, remember? We call it the 405.

Oh my God, this whole country is so different. So different. And big. Yeah, we're all together. And what I, okay, I love about, one of the few things I love about traveling is that you get to learn so much about the city you're in just by writing about some horrific thing that happened. So I was like, I need to add some stuff to this story because it'll make it make more

sense in when it happened, which is the late 70s and 80s. So the civil rights era dawned after World War II and downtown Oklahoma City became the site of the start of a new civil rights tactics when history teacher Clara Looper, who, guys, she's here tonight. Are you ready? Waiter. Bring out Clara Looper. Bring out Clara Looper.

She was the, she had been the first, she was a history teacher. She had been the first African-American student in the graduate history program at the University of Oklahoma. The fighting. The fighting I-405. That's right. Shit. Fighting freeways.

The fighting. Thank you. Sorry. I fucking really threw you a phone. I don't know. We used to have so much fun with the fighting. And now all of a sudden it's become a real point of stress for us. It's not doing anymore.

You know what I like better is, and in today's money, let's do that one instead. That's way better. Okay. We're going with that one. So, in 1950s when that happened, and then she led some of her students and her like young children from Douglas High School, which in today's high school is. Junior High. And the very first sit-in in American history to segregate the lunch counter at the downtown

cat's drug store on August 19th, 1956. Fuck yeah. That's her fucking kids. Two days later, the cat's corporate management desegregated its lunch counters in three states, and the sit-in was adopted throughout the country as a peaceful protest tactic. Hell yeah. Amazing. Two days.

Pretty cool. So, great job guys. Good job you guys. You did it. Way to go. All you. As the 1960s continued, however, Oklahoma City, when it used to be all rich fucking oil people and shit.

I remember. You remember that? Yeah. Beautiful buildings. Gorgeous city. Oklahoma City began to decline, and of course, a white flight and suburbanization began to empty out the central business district and the surrounding areas. It's a similar story at the time all throughout the U.S.

By 1961, the city limits of Oklahoma City had expanded from 80 square miles to 475 square miles. As people were like, I'm going to go out over there, right? And the oil beneath the city had begun to dry up. Property values declined, and the new city leaders then engaged in a disastrous program of urban renewal. It went really bad. Sorry guys.

The plan was to save Oklahoma City and turn it into one of the most beautiful cities in the Western Hemisphere. That was their plan. And they're like, ferns, ferns, ferns. That's right. Cover the city in ferns. Unfortunately, someone else was like, knock everything down. And everyone was like, okay, see.

Basically what they ended up doing was essentially a 12-year demolishing rave or party where 40% of downtown was demolished, and it was 530 buildings. So there were all these beautiful buildings that were like the first, the founders of Oklahoma City had built to look like this from Europe and that from there. And they were gorgeous. And these dudes were like, fuck this shit. Progress, everyone. You know how they do it.

And they were trying to build this city of tomorrow. So this is what it looked like back then. See that building right there? The tall one? No. The one in front of it. Okay, yes. Then they did this to it.

Oh, Jesus. Yeah. It sucks, right? And they're like, look, it's your new water park. Bring your own slide. Yeah. So. I would have liked to see that building go down though, I'm sorry.

There were some photos of it, and I guess at a lot of the demolitions, people would just stare and cry because everyone was like, don't do that. And they're like, we're rich white men, we can do whatever we want. So where was I? By the 70s, with a population of over 350,000, that's correct, urban renewal had lost the support of many Oklahoma City residents. They were pissed off that they demolished the majority of the old theater district, and they tore down historical, historic structures.

And the program was also blamed for forcing retailers and department stores elsewhere. They were like, we're going to give you a new beautiful building, and then they tore everything down and then didn't have the money to build anything back up. So they tore down a bunch of stores to make way for a new thing, a shopping mall, and then that area stood as a parking lot for 35 years. Oh. But a great parking lot, everybody. It wasn't one of the cool ones where you park your car and then they bring it up on

a ladder, and it's not even that, you know, it sucks. Pretty standard. Yeah. Oklahoma City's urban renewal program was the most extensive in the state, and by the early 80s, the city had cleared hundreds of structures in the area. These were downtown at the 200-acre Oklahoma Health Center on the John F. Kennedy neighborhood, which is around where our story takes place. So of course, they're like, we're going to build not the I-405, the interstate through

here. So we're taking all of your houses, goodbye, you know, to, of course, the majority of the poor people. Right. So the 1970s to 80s were a period of stagnation for Oklahoma City, and let's see, hold on, with the exception of the myriad gardens, there was little done to, love that place, little was done to improve the inner city or central business district. And so between 1976 and 1986, a killer struck at least three times in Oklahoma City using

the sparsely populated neighborhoods that had emptied to make way for highway construction. It was like free-for-all. Yeah. Sorry. Excuse me. Are you emptying the garbage? Oh. I bet someone barfed.

Oh. They did? Oh, we're getting nods of yes. Oh, honey. I'm so sorry. Not you. I'm sorry for the people sitting around. I shouldn't have called it out.

I'm sorry. It's just that when someone snaps out a garbage bag three times, I'm like, what did I not put the garbage out, mom? What happened? Am I in trouble? Oh, God. All of you. So sorry.

You know it's now happening at every single show. We get messages the next day where it's like, I had a great time except for a girl barfed on my shoulder. Yeah. You guys all get free milk duds in the lobby on the theater. Free clam chowder for everybody in that. Stop it. That's not funny, Karen.

That's not funny. I don't like barf unlike other people, and therefore that offends me. Oh, do you think people barf at lame is a rob part two or whatever? I bet they do. Do you think barf gets more barf, lame is a rob or us? I hope it's us. I feel like we're number one. I feel like that, too.

Yeah. I mean, no one will ever be, nobody feel bad, first of all, I can't tell you the places I've barfed. It was a real passion of mine in the 90s, but I remember doing it in onto my own lap in my friend's convertible car, and she was just like, you got to be fucking kidding me. It's a convertible. You could have turned your head any direction, and it would have been taken care of. At least you were being polite.

You know, and my dad would be on road trips, and we'd get food, and he'd say, eat over your clothes. You were kind of following that, eat those. I was just trying to keep it contained. All I had to do is that. It didn't have to be contained at all. So we feel you over here. We're feeling it, and smelling it a little bit.

Okay. Here we are. And we're back. We're back to the horror of life. Two, you have now described one of the creepiest concepts, which is a serial killer who was operating in abandoned neighborhood. That's right. How have they not made a horror movie out of this?

Because that's... I think... Did they? I don't know. I don't know. You're like, have you never heard of... Oh, have you never heard of Mrs. Doubtfire? I don't know.

I couldn't... I couldn't come up with a good one. Yes, they loved it. Okay. It was perfect. It started there, it's like it was the... Okay. 1976, April Fool's Day.

On April 1st, 1976, at around 3 p.m., three oil industry workers are in between shifts and waiting for a friend to show up, and they're bored. And so as you do, they say to themselves, let's go check out that abandoned house. I would. I would too. Yeah. That's fun, but their fun turns terrible. They break into this vacant house, it's Northeast 8th Street.

One of the interesting things, and now this makes sense to me, because I was doing all this reading about, all this stuff I just talked about, and one of the things is they paid a fair price for the people who got kicked out of their houses, but they only gave them like a month to get out, so there was tons of furniture and like expensive shit left behind. Oh, you love to... They're gonna go through that. I mean, it sucks.

It sucks. It sucks. It's a lot of legislation, it's bullshit, but... But... Drawers, baby. All I wanna do is look through other people's drawers. It's all I want. I don't want there to be an apocalypse, but if there is, I hope everyone leaves everything

behind for me to go through. Yes. So... It's a slice of life. That's right. Okay, so they're in this house at Northeast 8th by Stiles Park. You guys know it. It's about...

It's about one and a half miles from here, so that's fun. The front door is boarded shut, but the back door is unlocked, so one of the dudes enters through a hole in the side of the house. I guess he didn't know the back door was unlocked. I guess he didn't know it was abandoned. Yeah, it didn't proofread that. It's dark inside, someone trips over something, and then the room has the smell of something rancid, one of the...

They see a popcorn bucket in the corner, and one of them knocks it over, and inside the popcorn box is a severed head. Head. Head. Head. Sorry. Sorry. Like a popcorn...

Like a bucket from the movie theater? I think so. That's what it sounds like. Jesus. That's gonna ruin your movie-going experience into the future. That's right. Shit. They quickly realize it's at the head of a woman, and so they call the police.

The police think it's a joke because it's April Fool's Day. They come out anyways and realize it's fucking... It would be a terrible joke, and it's not a fucking joke. They find other parts of the body, it's true about the house, including what the dude had tripped over, and realize it's the body of a female. So the police aren't able to identify the woman, and they try to compare her teeth to dental records of several missing women, but nothing matches, and she's classified as a Jane Doe.

A sculptor works with police to produce a clay reconstruction, but it doesn't come up with any leads, so that goes cold. Three years later, on April 19th, 1979, a couple kids are playing basketball. When a dog runs up, no, with a severed head and it's now, that one person's clapping like this, ma'am. Ma'am, stop it. That's what everyone... That's what everyone...

That's why we're here. She's a therapist, and she's like, get those children into therapy. And one of those children was LeBron James, because that's how you are inspired. We have to overcome things to get to good places. He's never stopped playing basketball. He drives him. He sees it at night during the day. Jesus.

A dog runs up. If that wasn't a horror movie, everyone in the audience would be like, this is corny. I had to get out of here. Stupid. That would never happen. And you could just imagine what it's like, it's probably the neighborhood of abandoned places. Oh, you've...

Okay. The cops come and they are like, oh, shit. And they canvass the area. They don't find anything else. They come back the next morning, just be like, let's just double check that. And they find more body parts in places that they weren't there the day before. As if someone had crept in the night before and fucking left them for them to find. They're called back repeatedly through the next two weeks as body parts keep turning

up and they're found wrapped in newspaper and in brown wrapping paper, like as if it's a butcher, hence the Oklahoma City butcher. And they realize it's the body of a woman and the body parts keep turning up until May 1st, 1979, when the rest of the body is found in the area. A week later, fingerprints positively identify the woman as 22-year-old Arlie Bell Killian. Family members tell police that they'd seen Arlie just hours before she had been found. Even though she is involved in sex work, police immediately suspect that it's not someone on the street.

It's one of her male relatives who, there were newspaper accounts that he had escaped from a mental hospital the same day of Arlie's murder. He had a history of violent behavior, including attacking things with a hatchet, including his grandmother. He didn't kill her. Sorry. Isn't this just Friday the 13th? Oh shit, is it?

Or is that Halloween? This might be Halloween. Halloween. They're kind of all the same. Women would argue. That's horrifying. Police records, they look into him because they're like, this has got to be the dude, right?

But it turns out that he had been arrested and brought back to the hospital a week before the last of the remains were found, so he couldn't have dumped the pieces himself. They were like, not him. Goodbye. Seven years, goodbye. Wow. On March 6, 1986, a mile from where the last body was found, so it's all in this really small little area.

Seven years later, a leg and a torso from a female are found in an alley behind a house, and a week later, a homeless person finds the head of the next victim behind a house just down the street from there. The victim is identified by the two tattoos on her shoulder as 22-year-old Tina Sanders, and she had been at last seen the day before she died. A month later, police publicly link these two deaths and the Jane Doe from 1976, so they're like, everyone, you should freak out, something's going on here. It's big.

It's big and horrible. The Jane Doe and Killian have distinctive incisions in their face that the killer had done, so they're similar, and the body parts of both these latest two victims had intentionally been scattered in different parts, and two were known to be sex workers, and they're all young Native American women with a similar physical appearance. Each death happened in the spring, and there was evidence that the killer took his time with each of the victims. Early reports say that the killer's a medical student or physician because they're like,

the cuts were perfect, and then the detective Eastridge, who's became a cold case detective of this, is like, no, they're not. They're crude and sloppy, so it's not that. That was just like a theory that came out, basically. Yeah, you know how that shit goes, rumor mill. It's suspected that the killer, now named the Oklahoma City Butcher, might have been in the military or even in jail during those periods between when he killed people, but the linked murders don't receive a lot of media attention because of the marginalized

victims, and all the cases, it runs cold. Let's see, okay, bup, bup, bup, bup, bup, sorry, okay, so enter Andra Medina in 1993. She comes forward to report her cousin missing. She had been missing for the past 17 years. Her cousin, Kathy Lynn Shackleford, had been 18 years old and a member of the Sac and Fox Tribe, and Andra's mother had always told her that it wasn't her business to inquire about her cousin's disappearance. She would leave it to the mom and dad and the family, but as soon as Andra's mom died,

she's like, fuck this shit, and goes to the police. Nice. She's like, I'm gonna find my cousin. And so she, in 1993, she calls the police to report her cousin missing, and they sergeant Norma Adams from Oklahoma City remembers a photo she had seen hanging in the police station, and it matched Andra's description of her cousin. So police can't find dental information for the cousin. They soon learned that her dental charts had been destroyed in a fire at her dentist's

clinic. But her medical records from the Sac and Fox Tribe, they are not able to provide a dental match either. So they send DNA to Cal State Berkeley to, with the sisters, the cousin's sisters, it matches. Okay. The test provides a perfect match, and the woman in the abandoned house is positively identified 17 years later as Kathy Lynn Shackleford.

Kathy had run away in June of 1975 when she was 17, less than a year before her body was found. That was the first body that we saw in the abandoned house. And she's heard from two months before her death, and Kathy's loved ones do start searching for her right away, but they get, they don't know why she didn't contact them, but people tell them that they had seen her around the country, so they don't think anything is wrong, they just think she's not contacting them. And her family members talk about her as someone who always had a smile on her face, and it

was very caring and always initiated hugs. And now that she's identified, her family is able to bury her among her relatives in Sac and Fox tradition in a Native American ceremony in Shawnee. In 1988, City Council members, okay, so that's, that's, that's story. And we're going, okay, I'm a bad, okay. In 1988, back to this urban renewal bullshit, City Council members admitted that the urban renewal plan had made Oklahoma City, that was supposed to make Oklahoma City a city of tomorrow, had not worked out as they hoped, and a councilman declared, downtown is dead

and we helped kill it. That's how you fucking take responsibility. You take it all. And it wasn't until the MAPS initiative in 1993, good job guys, that the city began to rebuild itself. So many of the North Sea streets and neighborhoods that the Oklahoma City butcher had stocked are long gone and they've been raised and turned into gentrified lofts and upscale eateries. Probably I saw three breweries today with one block radius.

So I'm guessing. Yeah, not talking shit, I went to one. And it's all brightly lit, regularly patrolled areas now. The Oklahoma City butcher has never been caught. Really? Or identified. Sorry guys. Well, and now this is where we turn to you.

We're going to walk you all home tonight. To your computers where you're going to solve this crime. Please. And the murders of Kathy Shackleford, Arlie Bell Killian and Tina Sanders remain unsolved to this day. Detective Kyle Eastridge, who was now the cold case detective, he's retired now. He said that it's interesting that the first two murders are almost exactly three years apart and then the last known victim is seven years later.

So he wonders if there's a victim in between those two that hasn't been identified as part of this spree yet. He also says that despite the two of the women being known sex workers, they were just doing what they had to do to get by. And Kathy's cousin, Andra Medina, who helped get her identified, says that her family tries to think she's in a better place now. But sometimes she wonders who this person is and is he still alive and they just want to know his identity.

And that is the fucking Kansas City butcher story. Oklahoma City. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. Shit. You're right. You're right at the finish line. You're right there. Shit.

Steven. And that was the Oklahoma City butcher. I'm so sorry. I can't believe, well, I can believe I've never heard it, but I have never heard that. It's so fucking disturbing. I feel like it's so disturbing. We always like try to avoid doing stories like that, which I didn't do tonight because it's just so horrible and it's marginalized women and it's, you know, unsolved and unsolved.

But it just seems, it's crazy that we haven't heard about that all the fucking time. And now that this insane DNA bullshit's going on, maybe he can be found and taken, taken in. Yeah. Let's hope. Let's hope. Should we do a quick hometown? Do we have time for a hometown?

Should we do it real fast? Now we have, um, before you start pointing, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Yeah. I'm all hopped up from the eight ball I did backstage. He does listen to us, he does listen, whoa, holy shit, wow, oh my God, it goes up there. Oh, you guys climb up there. I'm going to be right down there under that exit sign.

So no one who has puked or been puked on, please. Okay. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good role. You really do. Not yet. Here's the thing too, when everyone's pointing at someone and that someone is cowering in their chair, they don't, she doesn't want to be. I do want to tell you one rule.

One rule, one rule. I'd, I'd stop yelling, um, just so I can tell you this one rule, which is, you know all the rules. We say it every single time. This one seems to be coming up over and over and I feel, and I'm starting to feel bad for the people. Yeah. We want it to be local.

We want it to be local. It can be in the state or it could be nearby Oklahoma city, but we'd love it to be in Oklahoma city. But I swear to fucking God, if you roll up here with some Kansas city bullshit. Okay. We should start kicking people off if they do that. Yeah, that's right, I hate this so much. I hate it.

I hate it. Karen, do you want to do with the sign that says Stephen on it with the wheat, yeah, yeah. Go to Vince right there. That way, that way. Oh, they're coming up. Oh no. It's two. I don't know.

Okay. Turn the lights down. This is so crazy. It's terrifying. It's truly terrifying. So crazy. Are you mad at these two people? Yeah.

I'll give them a chance. I'll give them a chance. I saw her mouth something about my mom, so I feel like it's okay. Okay. Hi, Kelsey. Hi. What's your name? Hi.

It's Deedee and Kelsey, everybody. Mother and daughter. Mother and daughter. Come here. Yeah, I got the wheat, wait, I have to be on the phone. Wee-hoo. Got it. And this says...

That's my graduation cap. Doing it so far. This is my graduation cap. My last day of school ever was today. Where'd you go? What'd you do? I can't either. I'm dental hygiene.

Dental hygiene. We can't hear. She's graduating from college. She graduated from dental hygiene school today. Nice. It's a dental theme. We should stand over here so we can hear. Okay, yeah, yeah.

This is hard. Okay. Hi, guys. Hello. Where are you from? We're from Southwest Oklahoma right outside Lawton. Nice. Take it.

And my name is Not Every Deedee is Crazy. Okay. You say that. You always say all the deedee's are crazy. Don't start defensive. It's a bad look. Okay. So this story is very hometown for us.

We live in Southwest Oklahoma right outside Lawton. In 1999, Kelsey's dad and I bought 160 acres to build our home. So we closed on it, started building our house, and people started, it's about 30 minutes from where we had been living, and people started saying, hey, you know about the mass murder on your land, right? I forgive you. I forgive you. I'm not mad.

There's two people on stage right now. I couldn't be happier. Everything is great. Okay. Go ahead. So on March the 5th, 1916, there was a family that lived on our 160 acres named the O'Caines that were all murdered. And what happened was on a Monday morning, the farm hand came to go to work, knocked

on the door. It was roused and went inside, and inside he found everyone dead. There was, except the dad. So there were, there was a grandpa, the mom, the dad, and five children. One of them was four months old. Oh. Four month old baby that the mother was holding. And I will tell you that these newspaper articles that we found spared no detail.

Yeah. They get into it. It's very gruesome. Very gruesome. So basically the mother and baby were dead in the bed. She was clutching the baby. The baby throat was slit. No more baby talk.

It was horrible. Let Dee Dee tell her story. Let me tell my damn story. It's on my land. Sorry. Are you surprised that her button says, I'm a Karen? I am a Karen. And you're a Georgia.

That's right. So there were two boys and two girls. The two boys both were murdered in their beds. They had bullet wounds in their heads. The two girls were murdered, but they didn't get bullets. They just got bludgeoned and the like, and the mother and the baby were dead. But the dad, when the grandpa was also dead, but the dad, because they're all O'Caines and it's senior and junior and, you know, he was dead.

I mean, he wasn't quite dead. He was bleeding, but he still had a heartbeat. He still had a little bit of breathing. And of course they, this is out in the country, you know, and they had to get, were their phones dead? No. No, no. You're all looking up on your phone if there are phones or not.

There was no signal. There was no signal. Yeah. There was, the wifi was really bad back then. Kelsey says, Siri. So basically they, we had heard that initially the farm hand had been accused and had been cleared through forensics, but we actually couldn't find that in the newspapers. So everybody immediately thought it was the dad.

They had all been playing cards with some families the day before, all day Sunday. They were a well-respected family, but they just really couldn't decide anything else. But then there was also part of the story was that the grandpa was a real Frankenstein and that is a grumpy monster. Yeah. And so they actually thought that maybe, yeah, moms, how are you doing, Kelsey? She loves me a lot. She loves you so much.

25 years of this. So they, there was speculation that the grandpa killed all of them because they were actually wanting to send the grandpa to the home and that the dad came in, found everybody dead and he committed suicide, but, and then also they had a big problem with everybody wanting to see the bodies. Y'all talk about that all the time and they took all of these bodies to the mortuary and they had to like lock the doors because there was such a crowd of people just wanting to get in and see the bodies.

And so they were all buried together except for the grandpa and all of their coffins were white except for the grandpa, right? And I'm, I'm, thanks Kelsey for coming with me and I'm nearly done. And anyway, so the, they eventually said the father did it and that is the story of the okane mass murder on my lands, but, and you can still see in our pasture where the home was. Yes. But it is on the other side of the creek.

Don't come over. Do they know? In the address. Do they know? They know for sure that the dad did it. Probably. Maybe. It had.

Okay. So there was like a wash basin with blood and fingerprints on a towel and his hands were clean. So that's all we have to go off. We say yes. Yeah. So the dad, the dad did it. Yeah.

Okay. And the ghosts, there's no ghosts. We don't go over there real often. I don't play with my Ouija board anymore. The cows like it. I bet they do. The cows are fine with it. Yeah.

Oh my God. Guys, Dee Dee and Kelsey everybody, they killed it. They killed it. Oh, wow. Congratulations. Thank you. Nice to meet you. Bye.

Yes. Yeah. Great job, Oklahoma City. Dee Dee and Kelsey really changed my mind about two people coming up at once. I'm converted. I thought it was going to be a thing where it's like, anyway, we ran a thing. I like to snap judge. Fuck.

It was a perfect show, I feel like, for me, for my enjoyment of it. Stephen edits out me saying the wrong city. Oh, I'm sorry. And this part too, that was a perfect show. Do you know that we make lots of jokes about it, but it does break our hearts when you fuck things up because we really do want to give you the presentation that we know you would be able to give if you were the one doing it. We understand that the scrutiny is very high because these are things you've poured over

and that you know by heart. And that alone gives us the shits when we do these things. It's more pressure than we act like it is. Please focus on that girl puking and not me. I would love that. When you remember tonight, mistakes that were made tonight. Not me. It was all her.

No, this is amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you guys for welcoming us in the biggest fucking theater. Thank you to all the people who very actively and angrily complained that we hadn't come here, that we weren't in the Midwest enough. It works. We love it. It works.

We love it. It's a freaking hashtag bless that you guys support us so much. It's great. I mean, this whole ride is crazy and we can't believe that we get to do this, that we have a freaking book coming out that you guys, it's really bananas and we're so, so appreciative for everything you guys have done for us. Yeah, it's very, I feel like right now we're coming into a time where we can actually start feeling what's happening to us without being so freaked out all the time.

We'll see what happens to you. It's so crazy when your podcast explodes, but the coolest part I think is that every time we know, no matter what else is going on, we come out on this stage that we're talking to a bunch of our friends and that feeling that we get to be up here and doing the thing that we like the best and that you guys are here for it is so fucking satisfying for us and it really makes it like, this is kind of the cherry on top of the rest of the Sunday is when we get to be out here with you guys. So thank you so much for having us and of course, of course, stay saved and do God's

missions always, please. But then also stay sexy and by Oklahoma City. Thank you. Thank you.