My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 176 - The LA Book Tour Event at the Wilshire Ebell Theatre

Episode Date: June 6, 2019

Comedian Lizzy Cooperman hosts the last night of the Stay Sexy & Don't Get Murdered book tour. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. Hello. Hi.

And welcome. It's my favorite murder. The introduction to the podcast. The introduction podcast. The introduction of the live show that you're about to listen to. That's right. We wanted to do a quick intro before we put up the live show. It's a Q&A to our book tour.

It's one of the book tour shows. We thought you'd like to hear it. That's right. And if you haven't read our book yet, hi. What's up? We wrote a book. And guess what? We just found out today.

It's number one on the New York Times bestseller list. God, that feels weird to say. It does feel weird to hear. And kind of shaming. There's a lot to hold in that. Is it too braggy? It's pretty braggy to say. But it's not our fault.

It's a fact. It's not our fault. We did it. Thank you so much. You guys turned out, Indra supported us the way you always do in ways that we can't believe and to the point where both on the book scan list, which is where they take an aggregate of all book sales across bookstores across the country, we were number one on that list as well.

But New York Times has that gravitas of things you've heard of before. You can throw that in so many people's faces. Oh my God. I'm going to, when I go back to junior high this weekend, show them what I've done. Thanks for supporting us, guys. This is just unbelievable. We appreciate it so much. Thanks for driving us to all these places and dropping us off there, because that's

where we are. What? Cut it, Steven. Cut my feelings out of me and make them go away permanently. As a favorite, me, Steven. Don't cut it. Leave it on. We want to do quick announcements before we put the live episode up with our mutual bestie,

Lizzie Cooperman. Yes. One announcement is that this month, June, on the 23rd, we're doing our last live show like until the fall. It's at the Clusterfest in San Francisco, which looks freaking awesome. I want to go up early and go to a bunch of shows. It's such an amazing festival, comedy, music. It has everything, and we get to be right there in the middle of it, and we're doing

a show with our friend and yours, Mr. Patton Oswald. He will be the special guest. I love it. So Sunday, June 23rd at 7.15, at the Bill Graham stage, go to clusterfest.com. Nice in San Francisco. Did we say that? Yeah. To get tickets.

We sure did. And then we also want to talk about our Santa Barbara weekend that we're so excited about. That's in November, first and second. There's all kinds of shows, including our show, fucking Perkast is going to be there. Murder Squad. Murder Squad. You got to look at Paul Holes with your own eyeballs. And Billy, Jensen, if that's your style, maybe that's your style.

Maybe you're a different type. Maybe you're not the Holes type. Maybe you go off the beaten path and you're like a sensitive, bookish, yet roguish type of man. A tall goth. A tall goth with feelings. That's right. Yeah.

So go to myfavoriteweekend.com to look at the packages. And come hang out with us. Right. And we're going to have more special stuff coming up with that show. And also, as you know, a summer time is coming up. And so we're about to start posting, we're about to take a summer vacation, and we're going to post, it'll be all new shows for you guys, live shows that you've never heard before, some best of stuff, some special one-offs, but we're taking a break.

So we love you for helping us to the point where we're so exhausted and tired from all the work that we've been doing, that we have to take a break. We're excited to do it, but we also won't really be leaving you because there's all kinds of shows that you haven't heard that you'll be hearing. That's right. Also, in the fan cult, there is another Q&A video that we made and a bunch of other fun videos. We post stuff all the time, freebies and giveaways and forums and shit.

And with that, please enjoy our last night of our three-night book tour, hosted by Lizzie Cooperman. Goodbye! Goodbye! Our host tonight is a writer and comedian who's appeared on HBO and Comedy Central. So please welcome, Lizzie Cooperman. Thank you so much! Hello!

Come on guys, I learned how to read for this! I read 295 pages for this! This is so exciting, I'm so happy to be here, so it's good to be out. What are we doing in the balcony? Is there a balcony? Are you guys practicing self-care in the balcony? Please say you are. I love this so much.

Yes, my name is Lizzie Cooperman. I'm a writer and comedian and longtime friend of Karen and Georgia's. And it's so exciting to be here. When Karen told me I was moderating this event, I was like, are you serious? And she was like, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. I'm going to make her say it minimum 10 times tonight. We're going to get minimum of 10, that's exactly right, out of Ms. Karen Kilgarev.

Yeah, I'm a longtime friend of them. I can't even believe that, sometimes I can't even believe, I mean Karen Kilgarev, sometimes I'm like, I never dreamed I would even be friends with this woman. It's really incredible, she's so revered in the comedy community that a few years ago, if she came to your show, people would be like, Karen Kilgarev is coming, Karen Kilgarev is coming. It would be like if someone was like, David Bowie is coming to your clarinet practice tonight.

She is Karen Bowie, seriously, she's so incredible. She's also an incredible friend. She's actually my emergency contact. She doesn't know that. Karen, if anything happens tonight, if any chandeliers fall on me, Phantom of the Opera style, Karen will be taking me straight to Hollywood Presbyterian, and Stephen will record it. I love Stephen, Karen's not listening, she's in the back watching a Deadwood marathon

right now. She's like super into Deadwood right now, but yeah, she's a dear friend of mine. She did the intro on my comedy album, she accidentally sends me text messages that were meant for her dad, and I just feel so lucky and humbled to be her friend and to get to hang out with her and her gorgeous dogs, Frank and George, fiercely private, so you all know, and Georgia Hardstark. I can't even quantify my love for this individual. She's helped me so much.

A few years ago, I was going through a breakup, and I'd only met Karen twice, or Georgia twice, and she was like, you should just stay at my place, and I was like, how do you know I'm not a murderer? I still do wonder that, actually, but she had me stay on her place, I slept on her couch, now I sleep on her driveway, but I was there for the whole experience of her and Vince getting together. I was on the couch, which I'm sure they loved. That's what you want right at the beginning of a relationship to spice things up.

She's like, Vince, don't be alarmed, there's a depressed woman living on my sofa. When we walk in, she might be frantically figuring out her finances. I love her so much, I've seen every variation of her bob haircut, and literally she's the person who truly appreciates my seven-layer bean dip, and that means the world to me. No one appreciates all the cans I open for people, so it's been really exciting watching us unfold because I've known them since before they had this podcast, and they've just remained the most loving, supportive, humble people, except now they give me all the promo codes. I have seven mattress toppers from my pillow, I'll be selling them after the show if anyone

needs a mattress topper, but truly they both inspire me and motivate me if there's anything that I'm struggling with or that I feel like I'm nervous to do, George is like, do it, post it, dance it, sing it, go for it, you know, and Karen's like, and this is why you need to send the application to Chuck E. Cheese, and you need to do it. So I love this book, I have to admit I'm a slow reader, and I tore through this book, so I'm so happy to be moderating this discussion on Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered, the definitive how to guide, I can't even believe it, I love the book so much, look it has grease from my home fries all over it, without further ado please welcome my dear friends, you know

them, you love them, Karen Kilgarev and Georgia Heartstar. Lizzie just did a tight five about us, that was like a spoke stand-up comedy for us. Like a eulogy, it was basically a eulogy, oh my god that's so funny, well for those of you I don't want to spoil the book, but Karen dies halfway through, she's been a ghost all along, thank you so much for having me do this you guys, sometimes I think about the journey that you guys have taken, and I'm just from the door to these seats, I've been thinking about the journey, but it's really like amazing, and can you guys talk a little bit about what that has been like to go all the way from starting the podcast

to be sitting here with this gorgeous book, I mean the thing that, it means so much to me because I've kept the same farmer's tan this whole time, and I feel like that's, this is how we stay grounded, this is how we stay humble, it's so fucking hot, I can't wear long sleeve polyester anymore, I don't give a fuck, fuck you, look at my farmer's tan, what's the question, what's the question, sorry, what was the question? Your journey, my journey, I mean how does it feel to have a book out, I guess is what I'm asking, for it to have all culminated in this tangible thing, that's incredibly written, and knowing that, yeah, I've just tried to do it.

Well you can hit someone with it, that you could hit someone. No, it's really weird, and you've known us for a long time, and you know that writing a book has been a secret desire of mine, it's totally bananas, I mean I still can't come to terms with the fact that this has all happened, that we wrote a book and finished it and did we? Yeah, it's incredible, I just remember having dinner with you guys and being like, how's it going? And you're like, we're still writing the book, and it was just this constant, it seemed

very measured. Do the real voice of when we'd answer that question. What do you mean? I was like, I'm just writing this fucking book, I was never not screen-crying about this book, never going to end, I hate everybody, including this book, if it were a person I'd kick it, oh my god. It's really, and I have to say, knowing both of you and reading this book, there were things that surprised me, that I was like, oh maybe I'm a bad friend and I wasn't listening.

I'm like, I didn't know it was that bad, that I'm like, get over it Georgia. I have. And that's what the book's all about. It was really, but it was really amazing reading this and being like, wow, you're going to learn things about these two that you haven't heard on the podcast. And I say that as a devout murderer now. You will learn things, I'm wondering, I was like, I wonder if they learned things about each other, when you read each other's stories, was there anything that you were like, I had

no idea? I have not read this book in any way. I'm so sorry, I realize that's rude, I'm not interested at all, I'm so sick of us, I can't even tell you. Our amazing editor, Allie Fisher, kept saying, read each other's chapters, read each other's chapters, and I read Karen's and I'm like, I better be good, I have to deliver, and it kind of made me work a little harder, and then so I just stopped reading yours. And I know you stopped reading mine too because the other night when we were reading on stage,

I said something about Mr. Belvedere, and we're very surprised. See, I have to keep it fresh. You don't want to read every book that your business partner writes. No, I think it was a very, very stressful process because we did it, and I also always wanted to write a book, but in my mind I was like, and that's when I'll rent the cottage on the Irish coastline, and I'll wear this big old sweater and type it on an old-fashioned typewriter, and instead it was like, we're in Australia, we're supposed to be doing other shows, and then we're like, we're three months behind on this fucking book, sit down!

What are your fucking ideas? It was insanity. We were always like three to eight months late on everything. The excuses I made up, I have the lies I told. Like, look, I broke another tooth, I don't know how it's happening. They might just be falling out of my mouth, but I will definitely get this to you on Monday. Just fucking jury-duty and broken teeth. Your dog kept getting out, George kept getting out.

My dog's only ever gotten out once, but according to my friends, it happens every day. Around six. I love it. So yeah, it was great. Why a book? Why not body-painting? That's nice. Well, yeah.

I love it. But did you feel like it was time for a book, or was it something that you were like, this is, why did you write the book? Yeah, eight months into a podcast, and you're like, it's time to write a book. Yeah. This is it. That's a question we asked ourselves many times as we were writing it, and we felt honored that someone wanted us to do that, and it was the chance that we both had with our

secret want to write a book, and you can't back down in the middle of it. You can't just be like, that was a really bad idea. What was I thinking, even though I kept thinking that? Right. Well, and originally, and this really is the truth, between us, we were like, yeah, we know what we want to do. It's going to be like a coffee table book, and there'll be really big pictures and very small paragraphs written in a very modern font that takes up a lot of room.

So essentially, each only have to write about six to eight paragraphs, and then we're out. And nothing personal. No, no, no. But instead, we were like, here's everything inside of me that I'm ashamed of. Look at it. The dirtiest of dirty underpants. It's like the time when we were selling my house and our family home when I was like 12 or 13, and the real estate agent apparently opened the lock box one day, and our dog had

gone in and pulled out all of me and my sister's dirty underpants, and they were just lined down the hallway. And so the real estate agent is like, and this is a four-bedroom, what the... Or when you take a bunch of what you think is really nice clothing to exchange it for clothes because you're broke at the crossroads and we're bubble change, and then they don't take anything. Yeah. That happens to me every time.

I'm like, this is vintage Diane von Furstenberg. I'm like, switch, yeah, it flips my bitch switch immediately, and I'm like, yeah. Do you know who I'm not? I'll tell you. I feel like crossroads was invented for rich drug addicts whose parents cut them off, and then it's like, start selling those shoes, bitch. You need to get that eight ball tonight. Oh, thank you.

There's tons of singing in the book. So what has it been like for you? So guys, seriously, I have a question, though. Did you know what the format was when you set out to write the book? I guess is what I'm asking. The format was supposed to be big pictures, no words. Oh, right. And Georgia mean that so truly.

Maybe a children's book I offered. Right. No takers. And it was one point where Georgia's like, what if our dad's write the book? That is so funny. What would your dad write? Oh, my dad would be like, get the hell out of here. I'm not doing your homework.

Okay. No, I did have a thing. What was the question? I know. Oh, my God. Oh, about the format. Oh, yeah. Like, what the format?

No, the true crime part kept, Allie Fisher kept being like, put some true crime in this. People who are buying this because of true crime and so we had to kind of add it in. But then it like naturally, you know, entered in and you realize that throughout these stories and throughout your life, people like us have been kind of following and comparing our lives to these stories of horrible things happening and, you know, that's where my anxiety comes from. So kind of naturally wove in, wove in to the podcast. That was really interesting, an interesting part of the book.

Which leads me to a passage. What was the process though, like for you, when you were writing was bad? Was it? Yes. I love that you say it was all supposed to be pictures. No, really, I think because we thought, we, okay, this is the kind of thing it's, it's um, to me, it's like, oh, what a sign of success. If somebody asks you to do a book, that means you've hit a certain level.

So fuck yeah, we have to do it. But then it's just like one more thing in the pile where, of course, then I just hate the things in the pile always. It doesn't, it could be the loveliest things in the world, but it's like, God damn, it's just more homework. Right. So yeah, if it wasn't for Allie Fisher, kind of hand holding us and receiving all of, especially my tantrums and bad behavior, because I would, of course, procrastinate and put it off.

And then it sent her a very salty text about how I don't think this entire system works at like, you know, it's three a.m. her time or whatever. I feel like you work well under pressure, though, as I've known you, I feel like there are nights where you're just like, and then I realized I had three hours left and I wrote the constitution. Yes. And then it's perfect. That's so true.

I think things fall out of you. Well, I think she's walking a lot. Lizzie, I told you not to bring up the falling out thing. I think what it is is, and we were talking about this last night is writing is not typing. Writing is not sitting in front of a computer. It's just thinking about the shit and marinating and stuff. So this is at least the excuse I use. So basically, then I just think for several months and then it's like, Allie sends a text.

It's like, for real this time, the dead line, like the machines are waiting to put the letters on the paper. And then you're like, yes, it came out of me. But you're, you're, you're marinating on it the whole time. Right. Kind of. Is that how you feel about it, Georgia? I put things off a lot, too, and I'm the kind of person who says yes to everything.

And then when the thing comes, it comes time, can I have $3 million when it comes time to do it. I'm like, why did I say yes to that? And so the book was part of that and it's this thing in your mind where like, you can't do this. What are you talking about? Like you were going to write a book. No one wants to read your book.

You don't know how to write a book. And it's kind of this like, it was this slog through not just like sitting down and writing, which is really boring, but also like getting past your own negativity and your own brain saying that you can't do something. And yeah. How many cats did you have on your body while you were at this time? There was at least one cat with me at every step of the way. I love it.

I love it. My dogs were loose in the neighborhood. No support. Very, very alone. Very isolated, I would say. No matter how many pets I get on the subject of reading, Georgia, you are like a voracious reader. It's one of my favorite things about you.

And there's a passage on page 84. If you could open it, Lizzie want me to get my show us how passionate you are about reading by reading the words. I finally get to make Jewish jokes with someone. Oh my God. Yes. Turn to page 84. Everyone rise.

We should read this call and response. We read it. Call and response. Yeah. My God. Why does this? You're Hanukkah party. So this is problematic, if not actionable.

Right now. Oh, sorry. You can't, you can't leave Catholics out like this. You just can't. We won't have it, but have fun. We've offended you and George who I discovered is Irish. It says, the note says, start reading at reading. And I will.

This is from the chapter, sweet baby angel. Reading has always been important to me. I bet we have that in common reader. Yeah. Kiss up. Good plan. You know, it's a, what's it called when you go like a meme, but like a, you know, pointing what?

Pointing meme? No. Meta. Meta. It's so meta. Thank you. Thanks to my mom and her own lifelong love of reading. So I've been an avid reader since I was a tiny person.

I'd sit in the closet underneath the staircase of my childhood home, like Harry Potter, but before there was Harry Potter, a top of pile of Afghans needed by my grandma with my cat whiskers curled up in my lap. That was my favorite place to get the fuck out of Orange County and live somewhere else. Even if it only was in my head, sometimes I was convinced that when I opened the door back up to leave the closet, that's not right. Sometimes I was convinced that when I opened the door, no, that was right, back up to leave the closet.

We can get it fixed on the second printing. The real world would be gone and instead I'd find myself crawling into a fantasy world. I mean, shit. For all I know, maybe I did walk out into a parallel universe a couple of times on one of the days I actually showed up for class. My eighth grade English teacher, who'd either been scared of me or more likely for me, slipped me a copy of the Martian Chronicles. It was an older worn copy that she must have brought from home.

On the cover were two sleek Martians sitting amid an alien world and gazing at a star streaming across the horizon. I just love the image of two sleek Martians. I'm just imagining these Martians just got blowouts. They're holding like metal briefcases. They're just like ready to do business. I mean, when you're a Martian, you got to be ready for anything. You got to be sleek, girl.

That's right. Okay. My mind, my mind took me there. To that place on the cover, when she handed me the book, she said, I think you'll like this. I started reading it under the stairs that afternoon. She was right. I loved it.

It's creepy and funny and scary and thrilling and the prose is poetic and beautiful. My old copy is falling apart and its pages are worn from reading and rereading and you can still see the faint highlights from when I found a line or passage, especially significant. Those are the quotes throughout this chapter. Reading one of Bradbury's books feels like watching an episode of the Twilight Zone except instead of just inactively fluffed on the couch, he makes you feel like you're living in it. Like he'd written about basement and Martians and rocket ships specifically to drag me

out of my dark closet into the sky. In the sky there is a metaphor for what of the ocean. I love this passage so much. I was really moved by it and it brought back memories of you shoving books in my face and telling me to read them. I was like, read this, read this, you'll love this, you'll love this. It's always like a woman shivering in a coat on the cover. I remember being like, I don't really like historical fiction in your face just dropping.

But this is like really stuck with you. Why do you think reading has stuck with you for all this time? May I rephrase that question? No. Why do you think reading is fundamental, Georgia? Oh. A literary word. It just is so comforting to me.

It feels so much more real than sometimes life is so mundane and boring. You read a book and you get lost in this world that's been created. I just love being there. I love expanding my imagination by these words that these amazing authors have written. I just, it's just, it's like I love being alone, but I'm not alone when I'm reading. I'm with, you know, I'm in a different world. You're with sleek aliens. Yeah.

I mean, read the book if you want to know. What was the teacher's name? Do you remember? Mrs. Taylor. Are you here tonight? Mrs. Taylor. Holy shit. Show your face.

Barbara Taylor. Come on down. I hope she reads this book. I bet she won't remember me. I bet every year. Oh yeah. She doesn't remember me. You don't think so?

Every year she gives a bat, the worst kid in her class who never comes to school a copy note. That's so funny. Karen, were you a big reader when you were young? I can't read. I'm, I'm a verbal, I'm more of a verbal visual. You're here on a scholarship. Right.

Karen, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. On your scholarship. Yeah. I just love that so much. There's another passage on being a teenager that I loved. Karen, it was something you wrote.

Oh really? Something you wrote at your ledger. It's on page 241 actually. Please turn your Torah. And this is really audience. What is I even referring to? You'll never know. Yeah.

I love this passage. This is kind of about, Karen in this passage is talking up about what it's like to be a teenager and this passage, I mean, I had to grab a tissue, Karen. It was really beautiful. Would you read it please? Yes, I will. One time in Chicago, I went to a lecture series with my friend Kristen where they had a bunch of people give five minute talks on something they loved and or wanted other people to know

about. One presenter did a talk on lightning photography. Another talked about volunteering for Habitat for Humanity. And then near the end, this lady got up and said she was going to give a speech in defense of 13 year olds. The second she said that, I started crying. It's true. But I was also working on, so there was a lot to cry about.

It's not a good time. It was a very, very dark, terrible time in the bleakest winter of Chicago. That's the next book. When has anyone in this world defended 13 year olds? They're the absolute worst and everyone agrees. They're rude and sullen and bitchy and no fun. They think they know everything, but they actually don't know anything at all, which is very embarrassing and painful to be near.

This lady was explaining why being that age is the hardest age you ever have to be because of all the chemicals and hormones constantly raging through your body at the same time. It's like you're being drugged and then woken up with speed on a daily basis. I've done that. Plus, your skin and hair and privates are all changing and you start to smell and you're suddenly aware of every pore on your face. Meanwhile, all social structure implodes and resets in a totally unfamiliar way. She pointed out how you're simultaneously the oldest version of a child and the youngest

version of an adult, so you don't belong anywhere. The only people who truly understand you are going through the same thing. As much as they empathize, they can't connect with you because they're dealing with all the same horror that you're going through plus whatever personal curveballs adolescents might be throwing them. It's very lonely. You're not cute anymore. Everyone criticizes you.

You don't get babied and you don't get respect. I wish I could show you a video of the level of ugly crying I was doing by the end of this speech. Her explanation forced me to face how the pain and trauma I felt being 13 injured me fundamentally and in a way that I'd never acknowledged. So it was like a fractured feelings bone that's set wrong, causing me to have a severe emotional limp and constant interpersonal relationship arthritis for the rest of my day. Wow.

I mean, and that woman, and that woman was Gail King, right? And then Gail King scooped me up in her arms. That's beautiful. I think so too. Is that how you felt as a teenager? 100%. Yeah. I know.

No one treats you with respect when you're a kid. But they also like grow up. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Unless you're like King Joffrey. Yes. You have to be like, or the parents were like, my child is the next Picasso.

Yes. And then that child grows up with crazy expectations of themselves. Right. Like you. Like me. I was supposed to be the next. That wasn't me. But I also think too, there is the part of it where you actually are smarter than everybody.

There is a piece of it where you are the hippest person in your household probably. Like you know how to use the computer the best. You actually know the latest meme or whatever. So you are working with total dipshits who won't listen to you when you're like, actually we shouldn't do that. They're like, blah, blah, blah. That's true. And like you, you're not jaded yet.

Yeah. Right. So you're seeing everything clearly. I remember my mom got a publisher's clearing house envelope in the mail one time. And I came in and I was like, oh my God, mom, we have to fill this out. You could win a million dollars. And she goes, throw it away. And I was like, you're going to give up before we even try.

Oh, I had a phone conversation at 12 or 13 with someone who said that we want to cruise. And we only had to pay like 50 bucks to get it. And I ran into my mom's room and like, I've been talking to this guy for like a half an hour. You're not going to believe this. Oh my God. We want to cruise. And he's here tonight with Miss Taylor.

Captain Stubing. They're both here. Yeah. I would love it. I just, yeah. I love that so much. There's that feeling of like, you can't sit at the kids table anymore. And then the adults like, don't talk to you.

And they're boring too. And they're boring. They're so boring. Yeah. They're so boring. Every rally against adults. We're so against adults. Yeah.

We need everyone. I loved that passage so much. Are you going to say that every time though? No. Okay. Well, I chose these because I loved them. That's true. Are you doing any least favorites?

I mean, there are a couple. What were you thinking here? What the hell? This was clearly a fabrication. This chapter was a lie. Prove that it wasn't. Georgia. Uh-oh.

Your tall mood. Ask me. Ask me. Ask Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Ask you. Ask Ruth Bader Ginsburg. She's so good at this. You guys watch.

I'm here to ask why, why are there so many that know how to read? I ask nothing of my favorite murder. All I ask is that they buy the book, stay sexy, don't get moody. That's what we used to read at Harvard Law with Sandra Day and I read the whole thing together. I can't believe it. I love it. Wonderful.

She came out. That's amazing. And she's here tonight. And she's here tonight with Miss Taylor and the Cruise Guy. We've got to keep her. They're all here tonight. Georgia, page 131. Okay, okay.

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Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. 131. Yeah. Just cold. Okay. Yeah. This is from the chapter send them back.

I didn't, and I'm talking about being into true crime. I didn't know it was something I was supposed to be embarrassed about until I got a little older and realized that people thought I was a creep for wanting to talk about murder all the time. Apparently, it's creepy to obsess about the weapons most commonly used in familiar side. The analysis of blood stain patterns and the psychological profiles of people with much housing by proxy. And to want, no, have to know all the tragic, horrible details and yes, even the crime scene photos and read autopsy reports.

And did I mention my walking nightmares of being kidnapped, but I couldn't quit. Much in the same way, I loved being terrified by Stephen King. I loved how Anne rule made me feel that my constant anxiety about death was legitimate. Look, there was on the right. Let's go back to one. Everybody back to one. Reset. Reset.

Look. Oh, listen. There. Thank you. Never have the mic in resting mode. My doing. Look, there it was right on the page. George Ann Hawkins had been worried about a Spanish test instead of the very real threat

of someone lurking in the shadows. And then that someone manifested into Ted Bundy and snatched her off the street. It was real. I wasn't crazy. Anxiety had been a very real, very problematic part of my life long before I stumbled upon true crime. I was already lying awake in bed at night, paralyzed with fear, wearing that something awful would happen to my parents or siblings or my cat, worried about the future, about being

made fun of at school, about car accidents and what ifs. Those things kept me up at night already, true crime or not. There was something so satisfying about getting confirmation that the world wasn't as great as happy days or Mr. Belvedere made it out to be. Karen lights up. Every time. This is my part. It didn't take the anxiety away, but it still felt like a fucking triumph.

I was a child and I wanted to know every bad thing that's out there so I could prepare myself for the worst. And what the hell? Okay, here's the thing. Here's the thing. My nine-year-old nephew is here tonight. Yeah. Just want to prep it up.

He understands all of this. He gets it. You shouldn't. What the hell is worse than a child murderer? Literally nothing, not one thing. At least I'm against. Yeah, that's right. I didn't stay positive.

I didn't just want to feel the thrill of fear or the satisfaction of validation. My survival depended on my knowing about crime. Boop. Yeah. It's taking me everything in my power to not say that I loved that passage. So I'll let you guys guess whether or not the verdict is out on whether or not. You don't like it? I can't say.

I truly can't say. Do you think that's a big part of your obsession with true crime? Is that feeling of like you want to be able to validate it and get confirmation? It's comforting, kind of, to be like, I told you, all these people who are like, I don't want to talk about that every one of my life. But it's real and it exists and it's a human experience and we can empathize with it and know what other people go through and it just feels important to me. I think I have the thing where my parents always, I was always walking into the kitchen

right as something really juicy was being talked about and then they'd all shut up. And I'd be like, come on, what, what, what? And my mom would go, we'll tell you a little bit later. And I didn't, I never asked what the time frame of that was. She made it sound like it was like at 9.30. But she meant like when I was 25. And so I think when like the first true crime book that I stumbled upon, it was like, oh, this is what they're talking about.

It was that thing of like, this is what adults know that they keep from us. And now I know it too. And I wanted, I just wanted to know everything. Oh my God. I've, yeah, that's, I've never thought of it that way. Do you think that that desire to like confirm things or find out like the truth about things plays out in your life in other ways? Hmm.

I'm always going through Vince's emails. I got to know. So far it's just, just the Fred Perry ads. Wait, what is it? T-shirt, like ads for T-shirts and sneakers and stuff. He's dating a T-shirt company. Oh my God. Who is this T-shirt bitch that I read about in your emails?

Oh, she wants you to have 50% off. What a slut. Like leave it on. That's so funny. Did your parents ever follow you when you were little to find out what you were up to? Trying to. No, they didn't give a shit. No, they didn't care.

I came home. Sorry. I came home from school one day and my dad, it was one of the days my dad was home from the firehouse. And so, um, he wasn't in the front room when I walked in the garage door. So I was like, oh, this is going to be amazing. And I hid under the table that was in the corner and had a big, um, you know, tablecloth on it that went all the way to the ground.

So I was like, this has been amazing. I'm going to hear what they say when I'm not here. I'm going to hear the way my family gossips about me. This is going to be, this is the day where I learned everything. I was under that table for fucking two hours. Like, I would say in, in, you know, hour, one, at the 145 mark, I hear my dad kind of very distractedly say to my sister, hey, do you know where Karen is? And I don't even think she answered him the end.

I finally had to just come up and I'm like, I hear the whole time. Thank you. Karen on page 50. 50. Yes. I actually, I'm going to say I love this. It was, uh, and then I'll withhold it next time. Okay.

That's what I like. You talk really eloquently about your experience with your mom and dealing with her Alzheimer's in this passage and you're describing talking to a friend who's asked you how you are at a party. Oh, I should probably tell the anecdote that goes along with this chapter, which is that this was the first, you know, it was chapter one for both of us. And I chose to write about, um, my mother's, uh, you know, early onset Alzheimer's. Uh, that was the first big chunk of writing I was going to dive into.

So I think that also played into the eight month procrastination process that I, because I just could not write. I couldn't write it. I couldn't write it. And then when I finally sat there and I was like, just write something bad and then do the past, like the old, uh, I think that's the Anne Lamont, um, system, right? You're intentionally write a bad pass and then go from there. So I sat down to do that.

And it was like two paragraphs and I was a total disaster. And I sent a salty text to Ally that said, uh, can I please start at chapter two? She's like, oh yeah, I start any chapter you want. I'd like been holding myself back, being so horrified to dive into this. And here's why about five years into my mom's diagnosis, a friend at a party asked me how I was doing my standard reply was something like, I'm fine. It's harder on my dad and my sister since they're home with her. But as I went to say it, a truer thought hit me.

I told my friend this, having a parent with Alzheimer's is like living inside a horror movie that's playing out in real time. It's as horrifying and awful as it is tedious and mundane. It'd be like if you lived in the movie Jaws, you're happily swimming in the ocean and then everyone starts screaming shark. You start to panic, but then someone else yells that the shark is 20 miles away. So you calm down a little, but then a third person gets on the bullhorn and says, you're not allowed to get out of the water ever again.

So you start panicking and flailing and fighting and yelling for help. You scream about how unfair it is. You having to be out in the ocean with this killer shark alone when all these other people get to be on the beach. You scream until your voice is hoarse. No one responds. You finally start to accept that it's your fate. But then you start thinking everything that touches you is the shark.

You can't calm down because you can't stop reacting to things that aren't there. You grab wildly at anything that looks like a weapon, but every time it turns out to be seaweed. Boats go by filled with happy families enjoying the sun. You hate them all so much it makes you feel sick. And then you get really tired and you cry so hard that you think your head will burst. And then finally you gather all your strength and turn to look at the shark. Now it's 19.8 miles away.

It's the slowest shark in history, but you know it's coming right for you. After five years in the water, you start rooting for the fucking shark. When my little speech was done, we stood in silence. I'm the most selfish person of all time. This is like a fucking barbecue, by the way. Daytime. Daytime. West Hollywood.

See it with me. A lot of people had just gotten high. My friend didn't know what to say. What I just came out with was heavy and sad, not something you could smile and walk away from. He looked horribly uncomfortable. I felt a wave of embarrassment. I'd overshared a very dark revelation at a low-key summertime backyard party. But then my friend Adam, whose father also had Alzheimer's, pushed past my silent friend

and grabbed me by the shoulder. Oh my god, yes. That's exactly what it's like. We both started laughing and couldn't stop. It felt so good to pin it down and let it out. Aw. Feeling. Yes, nothing more than feeling.

How did you feel after you wrote this? Bad. You didn't feel... Didn't feel good. No. No catharsis. Oh no, I mean, I think for me, this writing process was very much like dig as deep as you can, get as specific and real as possible, touch the nerve real hard because that's what good writing is.

Like why else fucking do it? Leave it all on the field and then run away. So, you know, there was definitely lots of crying, especially when I had to like... We did a pass and then Allie did the thing where she always goes like, put me there, describe it. I want to know what your kitchen in the early 90s looked like. I don't know. I think that there was tons of big feelings. There was tons of crying.

There was lots of like, do we have to have this conference call today? Yeah. I just barfed all my feelings onto my computer. Yeah. So, and then it was just kind of like that's... I know, I think the best advice I ever got about writing and about kind of output for anything really is I don't know. I have to do it and then get away from it because if it's up to me, I will pick it apart until it doesn't exist anymore. And I never like it and I always think it's bad.

So, with this, it was this real exercise of like trusting Allie, trusting Georgia, knowing that they're not going to let it be shitty and then kind of just taking my hands off the wheel, essentially. Yeah. Do you think your mom had the same fear? Did she talk about that at all? Yeah, she did because my mom was an only child and she had two alcoholic parents. So, she was kind of like free range from day one and I think she had to raise herself. She had to adapt to this really awful kind of environment and situation and like many people in that situation,

she just went right into the mental health industry because I think that was one of her ways. It was just like her way of figuring out why people are the way they are. I don't think she spent a lot of time in fear, though, because she was so, I think, by herself. She had to be much more like, I'm driving this bus, get the fuck out of my way. So, she was real like force of nature because of that, I think. Thank you. That was really beautiful. Georgia, on page 183 in your Talmud. Sorry.

Sorry, non-Jews. There's a small section. You're talking about the lessons you learned in therapy. Oh, yeah. By the way, you guys, these chapters, you're going to love this book. They're all like, there's a chapter called Fuck Politeness. There's Sweet Baby Angel and everything is kind of like formatted in this way that it just, it's crazy that these are things that you guys have said over and over and that are kind of like

catchphrases at this point, but that they really do in this book reflect that they come from a place of truth because the stories that you have about each of them are just phenomenal, if I may. You may have. Yeah, okay. You want me to read that? Yeah. Probably. Number four.

So, this is in a list of things you learned in therapy. Yeah. Number four, and this is from the chapter, don't be a fucking lunatic. Beware of the altars at which you worship. My current therapist, Kim, who specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy is a sweet, soft-spoken, and generally very chill. Our sessions are discussions more than hardcore psychoanalysis, which means she doesn't often give me her opinion unless I specifically ask for it.

She just leads the conversation to a point where I understand what's truly going on. So, it was really surprising recently when after doing her signature staring off while mulling over my response, she looked over at me and said, Georgia, which is always jarring when your therapist directly says your name. That's so creepy. It's so creepy. That's the beginning of a horror movie. Karen, what? Georgia.

You're broken and you can't be pissed. Okay. $150. Thanks. See you next week. Keep chipping away. Georgia, you worship at the altar of doubt. It felt like I'd been hit by an emotion truck.

That one little phrase encapsulated so much of what I had been showing up with for the year and a half that I'd been seeing her. I subconsciously made sure to never believe in anything, like a forced nihilism, because doubt feels so much safer and reliable than faith and optimism. Stupid people are optimistic. Sorry. Positivities. Positivities for cheerleaders and youth group leaders and various other leaders. Thanks.

I'm negative and cynical, man. It's part of who I am. It's punk relic and Gen X and it's someone who can't be fucked with. But it turns out it's a defense mechanism, so I'm never disappointed. Just pleasantly surprised when good things happen. We all have our core beliefs that protect us from that which we're too scared to admit we want, like love or money or happiness, as if we'll somehow jinx our lives by thinking about it. It's fine to not want to scream it to the sky,

but make sure you aren't cursing your own happiness by believing more in something never manifesting, by worshiping at the altar of doubt or negativity or obliviousness, than actually trying to attain that thing. I mean... Yeah. I mean, what more do you want? Can I say, about six months ago, my therapist that I write about, Kim, took her own life, which is really hard, and that as I was reading this book in the final form,

I thought how sad I am that she doesn't get to hear how much I talk about her and how much she's helped me, and it makes me really sad. But also, I know her husband, and he once said to me that one time she ran upstairs and said, you're never going to believe what I just said. It's so smart. You worship at the altar of doubt. Oh, my God. So, like, I think for her, that was a moment, too, of, like, a epiphany of, you know,

that, yeah, it was exactly what I needed to hear, I think. Yeah, that really struck me, too. I was like, I feel like I do that also. Yeah. It's comforting. It really is. Safe. Anyone else feel like, okay.

Do you have anything from therapy here that stuck with you, like any phrases like that, that have stuck with you? I think the one that I say the most, I mean, I love the things my therapist says to me to the point where I tweet them often, where I'm like, this is good content, and if she's not going to use it, I absolutely am. I'm fucking paying hundreds of dollars. Truly. The one that she says the most in all different ways is your brain is very good at telling

you scary stories, because I come in with these theories where I'm just like, well, here's the thing. Right. So, I know this, actually, because, and I'm adding up this weird, crazy logic where she goes, sorry, where's the proof of this? No, no, no, no. I know it. It's right.

So, there's that one. She also, my favorite, and this was early on where I was like, oh, I might not come back. I was basically saying, my mom has early onset Alzheimer's. My job is so hard that I panic attacks on the freeway, on the way to work. You know, I'm in a loveless marriage. It was just on and on, and then she looked at me and she said, she made a sad face, but she wasn't being sarcastic like every comedian that I know and spend all my time with. She meant it, and she made a sad face, and she goes, that's a lot to hold.

And I was like, you're either a genius or I'm fucking out of here, I haven't decided. I need a new therapist. That's why I have my most memorable thing is you have mustard on your shirt. Maybe it's time to shop around, but maybe she meant like your soul, your shirt. It's a metaphor. Oh, you hadn't gotten the mustard metaphor before? Georgia, tell us another thing that you, from therapy. Be kind to little you, and this is something she taught me that I learned from her on the

two and a half years we were together that I kind of didn't understand before. Number five. Be kind to little you. This Instagram famous girl that I've met a few times who's gorgeous and kind and has really pretty hair, who would post a hashtag TVT pic of herself through back Thursday. Thank you. Oh. Oh.

For the one person who's not on Instagram right now. Too bad tomorrow, I was like, what? Too bad tomorrow's Friday, what? Sorry. No, I love it. Don't ever. Who would post a TVT pic of herself every Thursday, throwing back to when she was a chubby little girl with some kind of cruel caption making fun of herself for how fat she was, and it

broke my heart. The little girl in the photo looked so innocent, and there was something about the look in her eye that reminded me of my own low self-esteem as a child. And the thought of that little girl, who probably got made fun of a lot, finding out that her gorgeous grown-up self with really pretty hair would also be making fun of her someday, just didn't seem right. And I do it to myself too, but in a different way. At some point in my childhood, I learned to be very mean to myself.

I regularly call myself a stupid fucking idiot in my head when I do something as simple as take a wrong turn, forget my sunglasses, or can't think of a third example in the book on Friday. Yep. That's right. You know? Meada, meada, meada. Okay.

We pull out, we go in, we pull out, it's all over the place. But then my therapist helped me understand that the impatience and exasperation I felt toward myself was a learned behavior that I picked up from a childhood of being treated with impatience and exasperation by outside forces, but I didn't need to continue that cycle. She told me to picture little Georgia at five years old or so when this behavior was learned and imagine calling her a stupid fucking idiot for making a mistake. It made me want to cry.

Five year old Georgia doesn't deserve that. She deserves understanding and patience and to know that mistakes can be made without them making her a broken person. And so when I derated myself for that wrong turn, I was perpetuating the narrative that Georgia doesn't deserve to be treated with kindness. Even though I didn't start it, the only person who could stop that cycle was myself. And a great way to do that was to picture myself as a little kid when I was being cruel to myself.

It's taken some time, but I've definitely been kinder to myself since I learned that. And I commented on internet famous girl's Instagram account that it made me so sad that she was so mean to her little self. And you know what? She stopped posting mean comments with her TBT pics. I'm really glad. Little her and big her didn't deserve it. I love that.

I thought, I thought you're going to say you posted on that girl's Instagram. You're still fat. I'm saying there's a way to fight this. We can let's attack the attackers with even more viciousness. That's the way we're going to get to a solution. Listen, Instagram is not Twitter. Leave us alone. We're supportive.

You wouldn't survive a day on Twitter. Too supportive. This is so funny. It is weird when people are like, look how gross I was. It's like, Janko jeans were popular. No choice. It was the style. Like then they were gorgeous.

Your mom sent you to a barber. It's not your fault. You wouldn't have chosen it. You know what's so funny in the beginning of therapy? My therapist said that to me and I was like, she was like, would you say that to your little your young self or whatever? And I'd be like, yeah, she deserves it. And what are you talking about?

I was baffled and then she was like, would you say it to Nora, my niece, Nora, who was like six at the time. And then I was like, it depends on what she's in the audience tonight, hearing us something to say. You're so fucking stupid. Oh no, I can't believe I invited my nephew. He loves it. Sorry, Micah, I will pay for therapy when you're older.

Yeah. Oh my gosh, I love that. Your dad is part of the reason I'm like this, so you maybe deserve it. This is what you wanted it to become. This is some weird Mori Povich thing that George is just like, someone gets security. She's going to go out her brother with a chair. That would have been better on Mori Povich if they all sat in directors chairs and then had director chair fights.

Yeah. She'd be like a weird piece of material slaps you and the wood just hits you. You're like, that didn't hurt at all. I bet these are easy to smash. Let's try it. They're easy and fun. Speaking of Hollywood, Karen, perfect segue, page 247, please. This is an amazing section.

I have to say, there was a lot in this section that I wanted to draw from, there's a part before the part Karen's about to read, where you were talking about how in LA people pick your brain, say, can I just pick your brain? Everyone here, I feel like this is an LA audience. Everyone's had that happen. We've done that too. That happened to me and the person was more successful than me. She's like, so I've been on The New Girl four times and I was just like, uh, like, no.

Okay. Like, what do you want from me? Karen was at a job and you'd been there four years, right? She's working as a writer on a TV show. One day she comes home and there's a silver BMW with a giant red bow on it. So this was like her new life and she was, I'm like, so this was her new life. Just transformed her. But that sets up this passage.

And also the whole chapter is about, it starts with when I was 13, that's when the preppy trend hit, that weird early 80s, suddenly everyone's supposed to pretend that their dad owned a yacht and like, I lived in a town that had its own dairy. Like there were no boats fucking nearby. No one needed spary top-siders for any reason in my town. They actually didn't work in a lot of ways. And so there was the pressure to pretend to be rich in like a farm community. And then it brings me to this.

Suddenly I was pulling up to valets and feeling kind of proud. I felt rich. I felt like I belonged. I felt like a preppy. See, that's me wrapping things up in a metaphorical bow for your reading pleasure. I told you I would and then I did. I could not believe that the impossible had finally happened. I looked like one of those people whose parents had boat money and then got divorced and then

bought them an apology pony. I was now of the LA elite. But the car was subtly changing me. I started turning left on yellow lights even though I was the third car. Can I say, you read this part in New York and they didn't laugh and I was like, LA will get this. You know. The jokes get local work, everybody.

That's on me entirely. I went 110 on the freeway when I had nowhere to be. I developed a disdain for slow cars, shitty looking cars. Cars with more than one bumper sticker. I blasted my German stereo and I gunned my Nazi engine. It wasn't my problem. It had been given to me. I had no choice but to become a douche.

I was killing it in the business. That was the Hollywood way. This car meant I was better than other people. A year later, that job ended abruptly. I was totally disillusioned about who I'd become and what I thought I knew. I'd spent five years of my life at that show giving up performing comedy, abandoned friendships, and missed family functions. And here I was at the end wondering if it had been worth it.

Of course, it feels good to be successful, especially if you've never felt anything like it before and having money rules. But we all believe money and status, I mean, I don't have to write that. That's just the truth. But we all believe money and status will change us for the better. You lose yourself in the trappings of success, luxury cars, designer shoes, cashmere sweaters in every color. They're all just props and costumes that our inner 13-year-old thinks we need to survive

on the slanted, gravel-covered playground of adulthood. I had to go... Where? Where'd you go, Karen? Let me tell you. Through this huge life trauma to realize that I never cared about being a preppy when I was 13, I just wanted to stop suffering so fucking much. I sold the BMW a week after I left that job.

I didn't like the way it made me feel. I'll say it. I love that. I love that. Thank you. I said it, so Lizzy didn't ask too. Yes. Tell me more about why you like that.

Oh, I was listening. I support it. What happened to the Honda Fit? Where does the Honda Fit come into play? Oh, let me fucking tell you. I traded in a brand-new BMW, fancy pants, coupe for a Honda Fit. The people at the place were just like, okay, and then I was like, I'll get an automatic one.

You know what? Put a CD player in it. Then they gave me a check for like eight grand. And then like, I would say four months into the podcast, I was leaving Georgia's house. It was like 11 o'clock at night. I may have had two full-time riding jobs at the time. I'm not sure. We could cross-check the calendars.

I think you were drinking, what's the coffee that's crazy called? You know. Cocaine. We thought we weren't going to talk about that. Coffee. What's the coffee called? Bullet. Oh, cold brew.

Thank you. Oh, right. Cold brew coffee. Wow. I need some right now. Okay. Cold brew coffee that, please, if you've never had it, don't drink more than like, say, four fluid ounces.

Because one time at the Ear Wolf office, they have it on tap, and I went and took my Venti Starbucks cup, and I was like, want this coffee on tap, drank the entire thing during a podcast, and on my drive home, I was crying, but I had no feelings. It was really scary. I was just like, you crashed your car. I crashed, so. Sorry. No, I needed it.

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. It's all I wanted. So I was leaving Georgia's house, and it was when she lived on Alexandria. Franklin. Yeah. And I took a left onto Franklin. I looked this way. There was no cars.

I looked this way. There was no cars. I looked this way. There was a lady waiting to turn left onto the street, and I thought she was letting me go. So I was like, oh my God, someone's finally being nice, and boom, and it just fucking drove right out, and this guy T-boned me. The airbags went off.

It was the weirdest thing in accidents like that. It was like, I was looking at like, oh, that was nice of her. And then suddenly, the car was in a different direction and filled with smoke, because the airbags went off, and it's all the powder from the airbags. It was nuts. It was like the lady got out of the car. It was like it was the most erotic moment of my life. And now I have to have it every time.

You've seen the original crash. It's a wonderful film about erotic car crash fetishes. Okay. Wow. Where were we? I guess, I also am curious, how do you not go back into that BMW mindset? Because now you have a lot of success. How do you do it, Karen?

How do I stay humble? It's this farmer's tan. It's a way of self-flagellation. I'm like, show it to them. No, I would say this. That whole thing was built. It's like, I love that job in so many ways. It was complex.

There was amazing parts about it. It literally was like boot camp for television production. It gave me a very strong work ethic. Gave me all these things. But I also, the little pieces of myself, I was required to shed, to belong, and to fit in and to be what they required were essential parts of myself. So my comedic voice, my doing stand-up, the relationships I had that weren't in that weird cult, all those things, I just slowly were just like, oh, I can't have this anymore.

I shouldn't have this anymore. And so then by the time we got to the car area, they could have been like fucking, here's your own fire engine. Karen, right? I'd be like, yes, I love fire engine, ding, ding. Like I would have done whatever. Please start driving your fire engine. I'm going to buy Jelena's old antique fire engine, drive it around Burbank.

So it was more of the symbol of the things that I had, it made the mistake of thinking like my own voice and comedy wasn't important that succeeding in this business or making money or having some kind of job status was more important than sorry, but the art. And so it was a shitty way to learn a lesson, but obviously it was exactly what was supposed to happen. It was, I'm glad, I'm grateful it happened. Have you ever felt that way? No.

Okay. Which way? That's why the chapters are separate. Have you ever felt, have you ever felt that way? Successful? No. No, yeah, it's weird. Because, you know, I don't think I understand what's really going on because I moved into

kind of a nicer apartment that had air conditioning. Yeah. That's about it. And I got a Toyota Corolla because I didn't know what other, you know, what's a nice car, I don't know. So it's, it's kind of all, and I got a third cat and that's about it. The third cat, you exchange it for a lizard. You're like, I didn't like the way it made me feel.

Yeah. I love it. Georgia. Okay. Page 289. More? There's more. Oh, dear.

Guys, we're only one third of the way through. We're reading this whole book. Stay in your seats. No bathroom breaks. We at the Lizzie Cooperman Ledger require a three-hour interview. Okay. Page 289. This kind of shot me back in time because this was kind of about when you guys first

started to form the podcast. You were there. I know. I know. It's crazy. Are you mad? I'd ask that we didn't ask you to join. It should have been me.

That's how this ends. I could feel them slowly edging me out. I wrote my own book about it. I was excited. I remember you being like, it was like, you guys always did it on Monday, right? And I remember being like, Hey, who wants to hang out on Monday and then never receiving a response. I'm like, guess it's just me and my seven-layer bean dip.

I mean, nothing's wrong with that though. Yeah. Nothing wrong with that. Exactly. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So this is the conclusion called fucking hooray.

But also when we came up with the idea for my favorite murder during the last month of 2015, we were both in pretty bad places in our lives, which isn't something we really talk about when asked about the podcast. We'll both vaguely reference how much it's changed our lives or how grateful we are for the success, which would be true even if we had both been living it up like Rihanna. I feel like I dated the book by referencing Rihanna. No, no, she's timeless. Don't be crazy.

That's Borado. I accidentally took our editor and PR person to a strip club last night in Portland. And the first song that came on was your favorite Cardi B song, and I was like, Karen should be here. I do. I do. I do. I do.

I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do.

I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do.

I do. I do. I think you guys were in the midst of going up in. Number? Number? Yeah. Karen, do you cosa sign on that? I keep being like, please read the conclusion because I don't want to put words in your

mind. I'm like, do it. You're like the literal smoke from high car. Do you think about that and reflect on it? Or is it something that you're like, I just don't want to think about it anymore? Constantly. Really? I can't believe it.

There's so many moments where we just look at each other and say this is the life and it's just like little things like we know. And I watch them do it. It's I don't know. It's fun to be a third wheel in a way because... Sorry. Karen and I do it too. No, but we do do it.

We do it all the time. I know. Yeah. And it's funny because there's kind of no one else we can do that with. Sorry, Lizzie. Everyone's getting hurt tonight. I mean, I'm just... Just wait.

I'm just taking a fire thing. It's crazy. And we're constantly like, you know, right before we walk on stage at every show we go to where we look at each other and our flabbergasted, this is all happening. And I keep... You know, every time I take a nap, I think to myself of... I think of myself at 29 years old working in an office downtown, taking a nap under the desk because I was so tired and thinking, if I ever don't have to have a job, I'm taking

a nap every day. Oh, my God. It's the best. It's just... I hope it never goes away. I'm so grateful. I just can't believe it. Well, we hope the same.

There's one part of this book that I feel like is really actually the heart of this whole thing and it's the part about me. I knew it. Yes. Will you read it, Karen? Yes. It's on page 70 to 72. I would love to.

I'm so mad. I'm so mad. Karen, will you read it? It's the whole book. Okay. I'm going to read it. Read it slowly for Lizzie. Okay.

Here's a good example of how a clutch five friend works. The other night, I had dinner with my friend, Lizzie Marie Cooperman, who I love and who is very deep and wise. Beautiful. So pretty. I am wise. The first Christmas after the first year of us having this crazy, wonderful, successful year, we all, we were like, let's do fancy dinner at the other one, not the pizza one.

We're both comedians, writers and spiritual seekers and we like to get together every couple of weeks and sit in a restaurant talking and laughing until it closes around us. I've literally made friends with the valets at this restaurant because they always have my keys way past everybody else and they come in there just like, it's okay, it's okay. We discuss every single thing we can think of that's interesting or juicy and we give each other feedback about our current worries and sadnesses. Sadnesses, sadnesses is too a word. I don't care what you say, Spellcheck, fighting with my laptop in this.

So this one particular night, we were having one of our talk down dinners, but I could feel the flow was off. She'd asked me about things she knew were going on in my life, but when I'd update her on them, she looked kind of worried, say something, Pat, and change the subject. At first it was confusing. Only I would say the most insane thing and she'd unconditionally support and explore it. Once while I was loudly recounting a text exchange, I just had with a guy I liked, I

caught something out of the corner of my eye. I stopped talking and froze in a panic. She saw my face drop and asked what was wrong. As quietly as I could, I whispered, oh my God, Lizzie, I think he's sitting at the next table. Without another word, she casually reached over for her purse and snuck a look at every person sitting next to us. She turned back and said quietly, unless he's a bald man in his late 60s, it's not him.

It was. No. Daddy, I almost cried with relief, not just because I didn't get caught, but because she immediately had my back without question or judgment. My shame lifted. We ordered dessert and I told the story again even louder. That's why on this night, her lack of acceptance was hitting me so hard. I assumed I was being too negative, but she was the one asking and I was just giving her

the facts. But I went with every subject change, trying to be honest, but ultimately positive. Still her reaction was the same. I started to get frustrated. This isn't how we did things. Something was going on. Now, pre-therapy me would have been so hurt and shamed that I would have sunk into a pouty silence and waited until she spoke so I could do the same thing back to her.

But because I'm old and wise and therapized, yes, that is a word spelled chacky. Fucking narc. It's right there. I didn't let it slide. Me dropping my French fry for dramatic effect. I'm sorry. I have to tell you. It feels like you don't want to hear anything I'm saying.

Her suddenly thrilled, thank you for being honest to sew you. I could tell something was bucking you. Me upset, friless. I just feel like I'm bumming you out. Her pushing her blue corn waffle aside. To be honest, I'm going through some hard things right now and I feel like I need to keep myself up and happy. When the vibrations get low, I think I panic and want to run away.

And look. Listen. She's right. I'm right. It's much easier for me, for all of us, to complain and gossip because it holds the listener's interest. But it does have a negative residual effect. I thought I was making fun dinner conversation, but it was actually just a release for me.

My friend had no choice but to open up those low vibrational topics because that's what I'd been talking about the most. Things people have done or said that are fucked up, ways people have let me down, failures, bad behavior, rudeness, lies. The shortcut to human connection is meeting on the common ground of hating a third person. But that shit is low vibrational and leaves a fart fog of shittiness in the air. Wow. That's going to be in the Library of Congress, everybody.

But sometimes people already have so much shittiness going on in their lives, they just can't take another moment of it. Remember that. Save the shit storm for every fifth visit. Practice bringing something else to the table. If people ask you about a problem, try out the phrase, it's so crazy, I don't want to get into it. What's good with you?

Then if they have to know something, they'll insist you tell them, but usually people are relieved. I love that. And how did the French fries feel about it? I know that was all Allie Fisher. What were you eating? Tell me about the place. Don't just tell me this like...

What did she order? What did she order? What did you eat? The blue corn waffle. What color were the waffles? What color were the waffles? Blue. It is interesting though, and I feel like there is something to kind of like intentionally

switching the lens of where you are. It can just make you enjoy things, enjoy someone else's company on another level to just take a minute to kind of check in beforehand. But sometimes it is like we're hot potatoing a problem to someone else, like, I can't take this anymore, you take it, you know? Yes. But I also did not feel that way that night. That, thank you, that chapter though was one of those ones where I started writing it thinking

I was going to be saying something else entirely, and I found myself, I love, I'm so self-righteous, I love to tell people how it is and how it's going to be, and they're going to listen to this whole day, I've been around the black and it's so much smoking, but as I was writing that I was like, actually, let's say the embarrassing truth about this, which is like, I'm not a self-help author. I don't fucking know what people are supposed to... Wait, what? I'm sorry, what?

Oh, sorry, bad news. Like the only, it's more interesting to me or became more interesting to me to write a chapter about a kind of, what do you bring to the table that sucks? Instead of like, here's, I'm going to tell you how it is and how it works best, I clearly do not know at all, and it's just that moment-to-moment thing of like hoping, hoping you like wake up a little bit, you know, as you fuck up. I loved it. Me too.

Me too. Me too. Guys, we're running out of time. Of course. In the giant sense of being alive. Wow. Guys, we are running out of time, but I want to read a couple more passages if that's okay with you guys.

Yeah. Okay. Great. Georgia, I love, no, I'm not going to say it. Page 231. Okay. Okay, okay. Oh, God, I just, okay.

Oh, yeah. Page 231, you're talking about this relationship you had with this guy, I don't believe his real name was Aiden. It's not, but it's very close. I kind of just didn't change it. I'm like Aiden. It's like a dream guy name. So funny.

That's not real. Page 231. What would I call him? Aiden. Aiden with the leather jacket. I barely changed his name, and I'm bet he's pissed, but I did have an ex message me and say, hey, should I worry about this book? Like are my coworkers going to look down on me?

And I said, I fucking swear to God I said this, is it going to bum you out that you're not in the book at all? Yeah. Oh my God. I don't even know your name anymore. I don't give a shit about you anymore. Take a walk loser. Not my best work.

Where does this up this up? So this guy was like lying to you. That's right. During your relationship. Well, we don't have to spoil the whole thing, but he was shy. Don't mistake quietness. This guy was shy, and Georgia was doing that thing where like, I wonder, you know, I'm just trying to see into this guy's soul.

Yeah. I'm sure he's fascinating. This is from the chapter by your own shit. Don't mistake someone's quietness, lack of participation in a conversation, or worse, air of disinterest as intriguing. If someone holds their cards close to their chest, it doesn't necessarily mean their cards are worth fighting to see. The people who are open with their cards, who wear their cards on their sleeves and

offer them to you in a take it or leave it manner, those are the people worth playing cards with. I don't know why this is a metaphor. I don't know why this metaphor has become a card game. Maybe it's been too long since I've been to Vegas, but you get the gist. And hey, if you're shy and hold your cards close to your chest, I get it. It's hard to open up to people, especially when you've been hurt before and you were raised in a house where your caretakers were emotionally unreliable or used your emotions

against you because of their own untreated psychological issues. Wait, what, mom? Or because someone in your past didn't adhere to the leave it like, leave them like you found them breakup model. On my second date with Vince, with my husband, Vince, I was so irritated that he was being quiet that I told him I couldn't keep hanging out with him unless he started talking. The night we had met, we had talked animatedly all night. So I knew we had a good connection, but as soon as we started dating, he clammed up.

After a date that I cut short because I was just so sick of hearing myself talk and ask him questions to try to get him to talk, he asked me if everything was okay via text. Can I call? I texted back. I wanted to level with him and it didn't seem fair to stop seeing him without giving him a reason and a chance to fix it. So in the back of the bar where I had been drinking and commiserating with a friend, I called him and decided to be vulnerable.

I need you to talk, I bluntly told him. I have a really hard time with silence and quiet people. It makes me talk too much and I hate having one-sided conversations and I know you're probably just nervous, but talking too much makes me hate myself. Also eating in silence gives me a panic attack. Still. He's laughed and apologized and promised he'd start opening up, blaming his quietness on nervousness because he liked me and didn't want to screw it up.

I'm one of the goofiest people you've ever met once you get to know me. He told me playfully, prove it, I flirted back and he did and he is. I even included my love for his goofiness in my wedding vows. I love that. Which? I truly and deeply. Can I say, I wrote my wedding vows in a bed at the Madonna Inn between the two of you. Yeah.

That's right. That's true. I was like two comedy writers and they don't have to pay. Let's do this. That's amazing. That's right. We were in the merry-go-round horse room. There was literally a merry-go-round horse hanging above us as Georgia wrote her vows.

The day of the wedding. So that's incredible. That's me procrastinating. Yeah. That is so funny. I love this passage because I feel the exact same way that sometimes I'm like, yeah, if you like, you can't just say, I'm shy and have that be like the excuse. It's like we all have anxiety, but you have to like push through it.

I'm having a panic attack right now. You're doing great. Thank you. Which leads me to Page. Karen, will you read a passage on page 274, please? We've said this many times, but I'm going to repeat it here for anyone who might find it unclear. None of the advice we give in this book or have given on our podcast is qualified.

We're only experts in our own experiences. We don't have college educations or training of any kind. And if either of us has ever outsmarted a serial killer, we don't know about it. What we definitely have are big old fashioned blind spots, which is why we've learned to be grateful when our listeners point out our mistakes and allow us to adjust. I truly hate nothing more than finding out. I have no idea how much I don't know. I find it shameful to have been ignorant in the first place and that shame makes me resistant

to learning, but too bad for me and anyone like me. The only way we can evolve and grow is by accepting our flaws and doing our best to grow out of them. This podcast has been a lot like life in that way. One big semi involuntary learning experience. So when multiple people pointed out that some of our safety advice could be taken as victim blaming, I was shocked and honestly slightly offended. I thought, don't you know us?

We're the noblest of all creatures. We're women trying to help women stay out of trouble. We only strive to create a sisterhood of security, freedom and confidence. Of course we're on the victim's side. Of course we don't think anyone deserves it. We're just street wise city girls trying to lend a helping hand. I have newt. Why did I write that?

I have newt? Oh my God. I love it. I have newt. I have newt. There's really nothing like the self righteousness of the partially informed. Everybody is clapping for their own political reasons right now. Don't use me.

When we were asked to listen to our own advice from the point of view of an assault survivor, we suddenly saw how our offhanded fixes like never get into a car with someone you just met were tinged with the invisible final clause. And since you did, you're to blame for whatever happens. Whoops. I feel like that's me sitting in the audience because that is such a me thing to do. We never thought of it that way and the idea that anyone thought we did really sucked. We're going to close out with page 171.

I want you to get, this is for both of you. Oh, Lizzie. Surprise. It's both of you. Pop quiz. I love the section. It's called the top three swears and how to use them. Karen wrote this and I don't want to take any credit for that.

Oh, okay. Classie. Classie, I was panicking. I was like, how do I jokingly mention this is mine? I'm a fucking monster. Nothing is ever enough for me. Like I pay attention. Oh, sorry.

My nephew. No. The top three swears. The top three swears and how to use them. Number one. Shit. A classic utilitarian swear that lies on the mild end of the cursing spectrum. Best one muttered under one's breath as a form of self soothing.

Worst one yelled at the top of the lungs inside a Starbucks. That means someone who can't self regulate is sharing a confined space with you and that is scary. This swear word is most fun when spoken by the character Senator Clay Davis in the television series, The Wire. Go look up a compilation of him saying it on that show and learn swear based self expression from the master. Okay.

And I told my brother and sister-in-law that there'd be a lot of cursing. So this is their fault. Number two. Fuck. A straight up red zone swear. This is the word you use when you want to be heard and or upset at your dad at Thanksgiving. Although the force of impact varies from family to family. If you're throwing F bombs, you're kicking communications into high gear.

Very effective with and on children. There's something innately sinister about the sound of the F word where shit is a quick light hit. Fuck is a low gut punch. I think it's that you sound in the beginning. It's guttural and threatening, bringing to mind the deep muffler rumblings of a Hell's Angel rally. Dukes up the F words in town.

Now you did the last one. Number three. Cunt. Well, well, well, look who we have here. The word that dare not speak its name. The Voldemort of swears. It's the C word. This swear pushes the cursing needle all the way over into crisis mode.

It's a fork dropper. It's a fight-ender and a silent treatment starter. Saying the C word in anger constitutes a verbal scorching of the earth. There's no coming back. And yet in the UK, I hear they're required to say it three times a day to three different people as they're each having three of their daily teas. I'm kidding. Don't write in.

That means you daft cunt. Swears. Incredible. I feel like James Lipton. I'm like, what's your least favorite swear word? Do you have a least favorite swear word or no? I mean, that doesn't exist. Right.

I do. What is it? Twat. Oh. Oh, yes. It's so gross. And it's always like gross, weird men near 7-Eleven that say it. You know what I mean?

Where you overhear it, you're like, oh, I bet you either just got out of jail or just going into jail. That's so funny. It does have like a passiveness to it. It's not as like strong as the other words. Like commit to something. Commit to it. Well, speaking of bitches, cunts, I'm like, it's been an amazing night.

This has been incredible, and for anyone who doesn't have the book yet, I can't even tell you. It's so powerfully insightful, and I so appreciate you guys having me here to moderate. I guess I want to ask, like, what do you think is next for my favorite murder? I know you just did this, but what's next? Do you have any? Are there any plans or anything that you guys? I'm going to join the Army, I think.

I love it. It would be so hard. Yeah. Wouldn't that? A canned wine line, maybe. Oh, that's good too. Yeah, that's good too. A line of naps.

A line of naps. A line of naps. A napping service. That's right. Where you can come into a storefront. Yeah. Cats or cats. Tick and nap.

That's about it. I think those are great plans. I think we can all agree those are great plans. You guys, thank you so much for coming out tonight. Thank you, Lizzie. That was awesome. This is incredible. We have one more time for Karen Kilgera and George on Heart Start.

Thank you. Can we just say one thing to you before we go? Stay sexy. And... Don't be sexy! Thank you guys. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.