My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 192 - Sticking Together & Helping Out

Episode Date: October 17, 2019

Karen and Georgia cover the disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi, and story of the Oversteegen Sisters and Hannie Schaft.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. This is a true crime comedy podcast.

That's what it is. It's what we do. We make it for you. Uh huh. And for ourselves. That's right. It's a hard start. And we are ourselves.

Look, there's nothing we can do about ourselves. Yeah. It's just how it is. We're doing our best. We're tightening up our game. That's right. But the game can always be tightened. Sure.

That's what life is. Why not strive for something a little bit more? It's like a righty tightsy. Lesty-loesty. Don't do that one. You got it right. You got it right in that shit. Right in it up.

Right on up. You don't need to loosen it down. And that's where we're here for. Hello and welcome. Oh, we did that part already. Tighten it up. Tighten it up. Right in that shit.

We're here for a good time, not a long time. Yes. Oh, that's true. Is that from your yearbook? It's good. It's real good. Send your buns. Goodbye.

Good luck. Get laid. Get fucked. Stay real. You don't know that one? No. Oh, shit. Irvine must have been crying.

Goodbye. Good luck. Get laid. Get fucked. Hell yes. It's dirty. What's up Irvine 92? Or whenever.

That's not right. Yeah. You know, people who listen to this podcast were born in 98. Isn't that weird? You guys. That they have ear holes that work and we don't have to censor them. Well, yeah, there's nothing we can do about their ear holes. Because they're 20.

They're underdeveloped. Your hammers and your shoe horns. You know, the things inside your ear holes. Okay. Your baby teeth. Your little baby teeth that are all up in your face. Come down. We're going to come down during this podcast.

We're drinking coffee. We're doing it. We're proud of you. Anything we can think of. Oh, you're talking about the 98ers. The 98 percenters. No. How do you guys do it?

They've never not known the internet. Guys, keep going. They've never not known cell phones. It gets worse and then it gets better. Oh. It gets a little shitty again in late 30s. It's basically like the stock market. It's going to go down, up, down, up, up, up, down, down, down, up.

So, right in that shit and tighten that shit. And bear market, bull market. I don't know the difference. Amen. Let's hear it this way. Oh, there's elephants. There's donkeys. The elephant and donkey market.

And then there's a bull. Okay. We did it. That was the plot of succession. I love succession. I like to pretend that succession and the righteous gemstones work in, that they live in the same world because in the last episode I watched the righteous gemstones, they went through that theme park.

Yeah. And I was like, what if this is the theme park? The succession family owns. And then it's this thing. It's like Sunday night. Are you in the mood for fucking weird shit like gemstones or weird shit like succession? Yeah. They're the same show going in different directions.

That's right. This must have been written about on like Buzzfeed already. Yeah. It's got to have been like a snappy article in a snappy world. Send us the snappy article you wrote about the succession. You're 20-year-old. You know you sit at a fucking, what's it called? Aggregator.

And you just type all day. Yeah. And you write an article about this. You're the one that's working the, what's it called? Aggregator. That's the other computer word that we always like to use. Stigator. It's not instigator.

Oh. Oh. Stephen. Algorithm. Thank you. Our millennial. Fuckers. Millennial Ray Morris is here.

I'll be here all day. I stole that. You better be here all night, motherfucker. You will be here all night editing this part of the show. No one's ever going to hear any of this, right? No. Absolutely not. Okay, good.

We sound old. And we're back, not being able to think of the word. Algorithm. Aggregator. Yes. Algorithm. Anyway. What do you have?

A little news, news, news and reviews. News and reviews. Oh, well let's do the business first. Okay. So business people, tune in. Business in the front. Here we go. And then we'll party in the back.

That's right. My favorite weekend. Guys, you're sick of hearing us talk about this. We're still excited about it though. That's right. We're fucking taking over Santa Barbara. There's going to be so many old white people that don't understand what's happening. Yeah.

Kind of sorry. But not really. Yeah. So the packages are sold out. So you can't get like a whole weekend package, but individual tickets are still on sale. Yeah. And there's going to be a bunch of shows. So you can come to all of them.

Yeah. And also we're having a fucking art show. Yes. For the murdering us that are attending the weekend. So you can submit your artwork for the art exhibit at my favorite weekend. The info is in the news section of the website. And for people who are coming or not coming. Yeah.

If you want to come and you're a murdering maker and you just want to fucking sell your wares that are a little cute. What's it called? Like a pop-up store. A pop-up shop. Bizarre. You can do that. It's going to be a bizarre.

Bizarre. It's going to be snakes. I don't know. Tents and snakes. Yeah. You can do it. Also info and link to submission forms is in the news section of the website. Beautifully read, Georgia.

There are so many people who make such incredible art. If you're in Los Angeles, come fucking drive up for the day. Please. Sell your shit. We'd like, we'd love to see it. Let's see your knife earrings. Let's see your. Your cross stitch eat a dick.

Anything like that. If you feel like doing it and you want to come up and do it, we really would love to host you and see it. Yeah. The deadline's our October 20th, so it's like in a couple days. Yeah. You have to actually submit and people need to know you're coming. So that's important.

You know you're saying to your friends, like, I don't know if I should do it. Am I, I don't know if I'm good enough and there's going to be so many talented people there. Should I do it? Should I not do it? Just do it. Don't fucking, everyone sucks. Just do it.

Just do it. What if you're the best one? Yeah, exactly. What if you don't realize that you don't have imposter syndrome? What you have is secret superstar syndrome. Thank you. I was waiting for some kind of reaction to that. What other business?

Oh, are we going to do the TV guide of my, of exactly right media? Yes. Let's see. The Murder Squad has a bonus episode up right now. Yes. Where Billy Jensen does something. He, okay. So what he did, and this is in conjunction with Billy Jensen's book, Chase Darkness

with me is being, they're doing these book events at Barnes and Nobles across the land. And essentially Billy went and found a very old murder case, and so he, they're going to be releasing clues. And then you get, you get to basically work on this murder case and try to solve it with the clues that are released. That's fucking brilliant. It's really, really cool. So they have this bonus episode coming out.

So listen to this week's Murder Squad, and you'll, it'll make sense more than the way I'm explaining it right now. It's really interesting and cool, and Billy did it all. On the percast is Channing Apidaka. He's a comedian, and he has a fucking adorable cat that I've seen. That's amazing. Great. What does Do You Need a Ride have, Karen?

Do You Need a Ride, we're, we're recording it tomorrow, and the rumor is that Billy Wayne Davis is going to make it onto this episode. I've heard that like six fucking times. No, I know. It's very true. He's the, the Matt Damon of Do You Need a Ride. That's right. Um, yo, yeah.

So, so as far as we know right now, that's what's happening tomorrow. Um, he has the most lovely southern accent. It's just worth it to hear. Also, his standup is brilliant, like he's just good at what he does. He's one of those, he's one of those comics that like puts in the work. He's on the road all the time. He has the best internet posters that he makes. One of them is just a picture of a wolf on a bathroom sink, a public bathroom sink.

Like clearly someone went in and took a picture before they caught it for animal control. You know, he's that guy. Very cool. Thank you. He's a cool guy. Um, and of course there's the Fall Line, and this podcast will kill you. They're coming out with new episodes soon, but you can catch up on everything. They're so fucking good.

They're so great. Speaking of, I don't know, whatever. Things? Um, we want to plug something that we just found out about from Millennial Ray Morris. Oh, yeah, that's right. The UCB Theater, which is like a big theater here in LA for sketch comedy, for improv, for just fucking weird shit, fun shit comedy shows. It turns out, we just found out that they're doing, someone's doing a My Favorite Murder,

The Unauthorized Musical. It's going to be on... And we're here to authorize it. We are going to authorize it. Whatever it is, we don't know. We put our stamp of approval on it. There's no way it's not critical in me. We hope they don't hate us.

There's no way they don't hate us. It's October 29th at UCB Interstangtum at 10 p.m., Oprah Winfreckle, and Michael O'Connis are the comedians who are putting it together, and I'm here for it. I mean, I'm not going to be there for it. So those both sound like fake names, which means they don't want their names to be going on to this, which means it's going to be a scorcher. Oh, no. Well, go let us know, guys.

No, it'll be good. I'm sure it'll be fun. Who cares if they're critical? This thing, this is exactly what we're supposed to be doing at this point. Art is art. We support art. We support anybody getting an idea for any reason about anything. I'm doing it.

Except Nazis. Okay. I have to... So I was just on vacation, a wonderful vacation. I was so happy for you. No, I really am. It didn't happen. I know I really am, though.

You deserve it. Thank you. I mean that. No, I get that one. It seemed real. But while I was there, I met a truck driver named Andrea, who if I had 1,000 guesses of what Andrea did for a living, truck driving would be way near the end. But she came up in a...

Of course, we were in a bar because that's all we did was spend all of our time in bars. It was hilarious. And she came up and just said, like everybody does, I'm so sorry, I'm sorry in a rub. They're always slightly crouching down. I'm sorry. I just want to say hi and I love your podcast. And she was on her honeymoon. I'm sorry.

I don't remember her brand new husband's name. I'm very sorry. It was Chuck. Chuck or Chad. Or Brian. Truck or Chad. It was a truck or Chad. They met on the road.

But anyway, hi to Andrea. You know, we're glad we could be there with you through your long hauls. She had the most perfect manicure. I kept wanting to go, how do you drive truck with the most perfect manicure I've ever seen? I have a fully bandaged finger right now and I don't do jack shit all day and an unmanicured finger. So I am impressed. Yeah.

It was very cool. Yeah. I just wanted to give that shout. Oh. Are you watching the politician? No. Oh my God. I have not.

You have to watch the politician. Okay. It's so good. There's like an underlying gypsy rose, blanchard, like kind of storyline. Oh my. That's so good. And it's played by Audrey Deutsch. That is, I just want to watch her.

Oh. I just want to watch the show. Well, that sounds, I'm sold. It's a really good show. I've been looking at their, they have a series of billboards on Sunset that I always look at as I go to the dentist and they're beautifully done. They are gorgeous. And kind of like compelling or it's like, are those even real people?

It's not like that. Okay. It looks super fancy, but it's not. I mean, it is. And it's like indulgent and like a Gwyneth Paltrow because she's in it kind of way. Okay. But then, oh my God. And then fucking, hold on.

Oh. Jessica Lange plays the mom or the grandma with Munch House and Syndrome or Croxy. Yes. She is fucking incredible. Yeah. She's so good. I love that show. Wow.

I didn't know Jessica Lange was on it. Oh my God. Shit. Is this a Ryan Murphy joint? Of course it is. It totally is. That's part of his contract. He's like, and where will Jessica Lange be participating in all of this?

Jessica Lange, Zoe Deutsch, like characters, the grandma and daughter with, you know, I could just watch them all day. It's incredible. Awesome. Whatever. Okay. That's good to know. Yeah.

Wait, is it on Netflix? Yeah. Okay. You'll love it. Okay. Great. It's like so your show. Thank you.

I need it because now I'm done with both succession, with the combo shows, the spin off succession, and the righteous gemstone. Get it girl. They're done. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, Hello Fresh has you covered. Hello Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year.

Hello Fresh meals are convenient, seasonal, and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly. While I stop with just dinner, now you can enjoy Hello Fresh's expanded menu of quick lunch solutions, weekend brunch, simple side dishes, and amazing desserts. Karen January is going to be my month for Hello Fresh. I am so sick of takeout. I miss cooking so much. I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since like early fall.

So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and Hello Fresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye.

Hey, I'm Arisha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched, but her incredible success hit a deeply private pain.

In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Who goes first this week? Me? Yeah.

Okay, good. This is a story that I discovered over the summer while I did my usual cold caves googling. And it turns out this is this huge story in Italy and in Europe. And it's just like everyone knows about it, but I had never heard about it. Okay. This is the cold case disappearance of Emanuella or Landy. Okay. All right.

I got so much information from this from the Toronto Star article by Sandra Contenta. By an all that's interesting article by Marco Margaritoff and an article at The Guardian by Harriet Sherwood and Angela Goffrida. And of course, Wikipedia and Reddit, our best friends. I have to. Oh, I was going to say really quick because I keep seeing this every time I use Wikipedia lately. Please, if you can, go donate $5 to Wikipedia.

Yes. They need it. They talk about it often. It's important. If you could do it, it would help us a lot because we need to make sure that we can always use Wikipedia. The only way we know how. And I swear I've done it.

I have to. I promise. Yeah. You do it too. I do. I'm a good person. Okay. I promise.

Sorry. Trust me. Okay. So this is the only, this case is the only Vatican citizen ever to be kidnapped. Oh, shit. So I'm going to need your help with this Catholic shit. Crack, crack, crack, crack, crack. I'm Jewish and I don't get it.

Of course, young people go missing all the time all over the fucking world. This tragic cold case is one of many. Yes. I want to make that clear. But it's become one of Italy's most enduring mysteries and has yielded tons of conspiracy theories over the years with some involving ties to the Pope, the mafia, of course, and then fucking masons. That's right, Karen.

It goes all the way to the Lord. It all goes all the way to the Lord. That's right. Our Lord and Savior. Jesus Christ. Oh, oh. For whoever your Lord and Savior might be. It's your decision.

It's your life. That's right. So in June of 1983, 15-year-old Emanuella Orlandy had just completed her second year of high school. She's this beautiful, you know, normal kid. She had grown up in Vatican City with her three sisters and brother, her mother, and her father, who was a clerk in the office that scheduled meetings for Pope John Paul II.

Did you say beatings for Pope John Paul II? No. I wish I had. Meetings. Okay, meetings. Great. Many things would work there. I'd like to film him now.

So the children there have this safe, happy life in Vatican City. They have free-run of the Vatican gardens. And according to Emanuella's older brother, Pietro, they sometimes the Pope would fucking swing by and be like, yo, what's up? God is good, whatever, whatever. Basically, it was a happy childhood. Zion? Yeah.

To Christ. Yeah. That's right. And Emanuella was a smart, kind girl. So normal childhood as normal as it can be living in the Vatican City. I mean, just the idea of it, I know that there is a Vatican City and I know it's its own totally separate thing and all those things. But the idea that people actually live there with children and stuff, I thought it was

just the clergymen that's fascinating. I'll tell you. Okay. So I didn't know a lot of this. Vatican City is a sovereign state of about a thousand people. So people actually live there like it's a state. And it's ruled by the Pope, obviously. It was declared a sovereign state in 1929 as part of the late Trent Treaty between the

Holy See and Italy. And that's C-E-E-S-E. S-E. That's S-E-E for all you Jews out there because I had never heard of it. The Holy See is the Pope, right? Yeah. The Holy See is the universal government of the Catholic Church in the Vatican City state is a sovereign independent territory inside of Italy where it operates from.

Oh, it's like the Pope's whole government. Yes. But it operates from there and he fucking, oh, he runs this shit. He's a king. He's a president. He's like, he's in charge. Jay-Z to New York City. Got it.

Runs this shit. Yeah. Yeah. The Orlando family is part of a small group of lay Vatican citizens living within the walls of the city state because people have to do like lay stuff like Butler and Gardner and... Answer the phone. And schedule beatings for the Pope.

Answer that red phone. Yes. Get noon. Hang that phone out. That's right. So there are some lay people there. Okay. Okay.

On June 27th, 1983, 15-year-old Emanuella, who was a pretty and musically talented girl, is in her second year of high school. I already fucking said that. School year recently ended, but she continues to take flute and piano lessons three times a week at a school connected with the Pontifical Institute of Sacred Music. So she's good and she's dedicated to music. She better be good. That's right.

The Pontifical Institute. The Pontifical Institute of Sacred Music. She's also part of the church choir in the Vatican. Whoa. No joke. She's just like talented. I wrote highfalutin before I realized what a great pun it was because she plays the flute. Oh.

Highfalutin. Highfalutin. Let me explain this. I feel like your puns come from God because they're so highfalutin as an example. Thank you. You're welcome. That's it. Emanuella is headed to a flute class.

She asked her older brother, Pietro, to drive her the mile-long bus, no, to drive her. He's like, nope, I can't do it. They get in a fight and of course he regrets it every fucking day of his life and it's so sad. I hate those parts of these stories. That's right. Sheen said, takes the bus to class, a traffic cop and a constable later come forward and say that they saw her in front of the Italian Senate talking to a young man in a green BMW.

But the Senate security cameras weren't working that day so they didn't catch anything. Wow. After class around 7 p.m., Emanuella calls home and talks to one of her sisters. She tells her that a man had offered to pay her almost $200 to distribute pamphlets for Avon. Yeah. At a fashion show that weekend. What?

I don't know. People used to just come up to you and be like, do you want a job? Do you need a job? Do you need a job? A cash job? Yeah. Kind of an 83. Maybe, but...

Pretty girl. I just need teen interest to do this cheap job for me. How about you apply for a job like at where? At the warehouse and then you don't have to worry about getting a job through a car window from someone you don't know. I feel like an 83. That was just like a thing. Absolutely.

I mean, yes. Total possibility. And who knows? There's so many red herrings in this and so many clues that you don't know if they lead anywhere or not. So this could just be a normal thing. Here's the other thing. I'd like to call it into suspicion.

Not a lot of dudes working for Avon in my experience, my aunt, some neighbor ladies, but it's pretty much a woman-based industry. And $200 is a lot of fucking money. In 83? Yeah. Just to do a cheap job, you'd talk about 50 bucks here. Yeah. That's like...

Yes. I think... It seems sketchy. It seems super... Because wouldn't it be like $1,500 in today's money? Probably. Roughly? I don't know if it's Vatican money.

Well, Italian money, yeah. I know. Lira? Really? I don't know. I believe it. Yeah, she was given... she told him she would answer that evening after asking her parents, but her sister said they weren't home.

That was the last anyone ever heard from Emanuella. When she doesn't return home by the next day, she's officially declared a missing person. And over the next two days, announcements of the disappearance are published and like missing posters grow up with the Orlando Home phone number written on them. Oh, no. Yeah, like a call with any clues. So a few days later, a 16-year-old boy calls to say he and his fiance had run into her the day she disappeared.

He reports... It's all this crazy shit. He said that they met her at a local square. They described her correctly, but like her glasses and her flute and told them that she had run away from... She told them that she had run away from home and was selling Avon products. So it kind of like matched up a couple days after that, a man who owns a bar between the Vatican City and the music school named Mario calls and says that a girl matching Emanuella's

description had confided in him about being a runaway and said that she would return home for her sister's wedding, which was truthful, and that she was supposed to play the flute in the sister's wedding, which was also true. So it kind of made them think like maybe she's just a runaway. By July, Rome has over 3,000 posters with Emanuella's photograph and her disappearance becomes a national story. And it's a face that I think anyone in Italy would know as the missing girl. It's like a huge story to them.

And it becomes a national story, especially when on Sunday, July 3rd, during his weekly public Sunday prayer at St. Peter's Square, Pope John Paul II makes a public appeal about Emanuella's disappearance and says that she basically applies that she was kidnapped and prays for her speedy return. And this is the first time that Emanuella's family had even considered kidnapping. They thought she was a runaway. But for some reason, the Pope was like, does he have more information than we know? Oh, right?

Yeah. Or maybe he's just hoping, like many, many families do when people go missing. Fucking Pope. I'd like this big fucking... I don't know. Maybe he was trying to turn us like it's not, I don't know, I don't know. But that's also, it's so heavy that the Pope said something about it, it's such a big deal. It's also the fact that there was a first person to be kidnapped in the Vatican, a citizen.

Right. But I'm saying usually in situations like that, those kinds of institutions brush it under the rug. It's like, no, nothing bad's ever happened. Right. Like Disneyland won't let anybody die on their property. Right. Type of thing.

Yes, exactly. It's... The Vatican is very similar to Disneyland. That's right. It's good to know that they have better laws there. Disneyland City, as we know, is a sovereign state and that the independent territory inside of Anaheim where it operates from. Established in 1923.

That's right. Got it. Okay. So now months before the kidnapping, a friend of Emanuel is named Refiella. These names probably sound so beautiful when said by an Italian person. Yes, absolutely. So this gal is the daughter of the Pope's butler and he told her father that she was being followed by a man who had tailed her on six separate days as she rode the bus to

school. And this was a few months before Emanuel had gone missing. Okay. Her father had warned her that there was a rumor of a possible kidnapping being planned and because of this, that this girl, Refiella, was transferred to a different school and wasn't allowed to leave Vatican City alone. So like this might be a pattern. Okay.

When the claim is investigated by an Italian intelligence officer, when the detective comes to fucking check it out, he's taken off the case and given a desk job. Oh. So it might go all the way. All the way to the top. Two days after the Pope's appeal, the Orlandi family receives the first of a number of anonymous phone calls. One call reports Emanuel is supposedly the prisoner of a terrorist group.

Okay. Now in Italy at this time, Italy is the largest Communist Party in the West at the time and this is a time of fucking crazy violence and political unrest and like mafia stuff. It's almost like a cold war inside the country, you know, like fighting foreign factions. As well as by extremist national groups. Wow. So like not a good time to be there and be. Be walking around as a teenager.

Yeah. Exactly. Two days after the Pope's appeal, the Orlandi family receives the first of a number of anonymous phone calls. Okay. Okay. The caller in this one says that in exchange for Emanuel's release, they demand the release of Mehmet Ali Agha, Mehmet is a Turkish man who, did you know that the fucking that Pope

John Paul II had was shot? Yes. And attempted assassination? Yes. And then he forgave his assassin. Okay. That's crazy. It's super crazy.

And also that's why when he, when the Pope came and toured America, he was in the Pope Mobile that was like, yeah, he was basically in what looks like one of those old trouble where the dice pops back up, but he put a pope in there. Yeah. Yes. Because of that. Okay. Because, oh, because this guy that actually shot him.

So the person who's calling is demanding the release of the dude who shot him, who shot him four fucking times and hit him and he fucking survived. He survived. In 1981. So they're saying that they kidnapped Emanuel to trade her for this prisoner. Okay. Because he's in prison now. Yeah.

Well, don't you think he should be though? Yeah. Why are you on the Turk side? I'm not. I'm saying a fact. You're right. Right. Defend it.

He's also the responsible for the murder of a left-wing journalist and human rights advocate named Abdi Pecky. No other information is given, but Pietro the brother says, when they asked to exchange Emanuela to us, it meant she was alive. So this is like the first time that they are being asked to trade. That means she's like, it gave them kind of hope like held somewhere. Even though the request was absurd. They were like, it's not going to fucking happen, but at least she's alive.

Yeah. In the following days, other calls are received, including one from a man who becomes and he calls himself the American because he's American or has an American accent. I don't know. He plays a recording allegedly of Emanuela's voice over the phone. He also wants to arrange a deal for Emanuela's return in exchange for Mohammed, all August release, the guy who shot at the Pope. He says that the calls from the two men, remember the two guys from the day of that

were like, oh, she was in my bar and said she was a runaway and we met her in the square. Those were like his men and they were calling to try to slow down the investigation by insinuating that she was a runaway. Yeah. I was going to say that part of it is like then the family is finding out like she was going to run away. We didn't think she was going to run away. Right.

So they stop looking as hard and they're waiting and they have information about her that was like kind of correct. So they could possibly be true. I think it is. But if they were following the other girl that was then not allowed to go anywhere by herself for days and days, it's easy to find out stuff like that if they're just walking behind and eavesdropping. That's true.

I'm like seeing where she goes and her flute shit. Yeah. Yeah. So he says the calls from the two men who claimed to see her that day are members of his organization, which is a Turkish extremist nationalist group called the Grey Wolves. And like these guys are fucking in the mix at this time too, like fighting with Italy. Okay. Another call from the American dude led to a bag in a garbage bin with a photocopy of

sheet music by a composer that Emanuela had been studying. So these are all the all the like clues that they give and like there's one that's like she has six moles on her back. She has all her friends have dark hair. Like nothing conclusively leads like points to her. She's with them. It doesn't seem like it. Right.

So a copy of her music school registration card was found inside a public garbage bin, but it was a copy. So like who knows where that came from. Right. So in an interview in prison, this guy, Aghghad declares that Emanuela was kidnapped by Bulgarian agents of the Grey Wolves. He himself, Mohammed, he claims that the KGB had put him up to the shooting of the Pope all along.

So the fucking KGB is in here now. Whoa, God. And that the other another 15 year old girl actually had gone missing at the same time as Emanuela did Mariela Gregori. She was abducted at the same time as Emanuela and he says it's part of a plan to secure his release from prison. So like these two young 15 year old girls had been kidnapped for this reason. He claims that the girls were taken to a royal palace in Liechtenstein where they're living

in a convent. Over the years, there's been an insane amount of theories circulated in the Italian press and with Italians like they go crazy over this. I'm not getting into all of them. I would highly recommend if you want to know more to read the article in the Toronto Star about this. It goes fucking deep. But in 2005, another anonymous call comes to a Italian TV show saying that the tomb of

the gangster Enrico de Padillas has evidence that would help in the disappearance of Emanuela. Oh, OK. So this guy said they're like, look, check out the tomb. Enrico de Padillas had been a leader of the Vanda della Magliani gang, which was at the top of Rome's criminal world, so they were like the criminal fucking overlords and this guy was like part of it. In February 1990, de Padillas was shot and killed by rival members of his gang and buried at St. Apollinaire's crypt at one of Rome's most prestigious churches.

OK. And I was like, why the fuck is this guy who is in the mafia buried in this prestigious crypt? Buried there are numerous cardinals and senior members of the Vatican and burials hadn't occurred for over a century there. OK. So suddenly they're opening it back up. Right.

That's fucking weird. OK. And it also just happened to be attached to the building where Emanuela had studied music. Oh, yeah. OK. But it isn't not to, but just sitting back in the house. This is the whole case. Let's go ahead and, yeah.

OK. Because it's such a tiny place that everything is going to be a Vatican city and like a Vatican house. But what about outside of it? I mean, I don't know. I'm just saying if it's close by, right, you would just, it's all kind of connected. Yeah. And it might not mean anything.

But the fact that a notorious gangster was buried at this sacred place made everyone go, what the fuck? And so was that not like known until this came out? It wasn't known until it came out. Oh, OK. Maybe it had been years and people were like, hang on a second. Yeah. There's something's going on here.

Jesus, say what? There were all kinds of gang ties and this like fucking crazy, crazy evil messianic groups like that I'm not getting into. The Illuminati? Yeah, probably. OK. That deal. Like I think they laugh at the Illuminati because they're like, that's bullshit.

And everyone knows about them. That's right. That's not a secret group. This is like some crazy Masonic group that like killed their fucking like banker and shit. Oh. And banana stuff. Sure.

They deal with money laundering through the Vatican. So all this money is being laundered through the Vatican with this fucking gang like mafia team. OK. I don't know what they call themselves. It's a team. Like soccer. Yeah.

And all kinds of suspicious deaths happen. But basically it's theorized that Emanuella was kidnapped to blackmail the Vatican into giving back the money it owed this gang that this guy belonged to. And it said that they did get the money back thanks to a deal cut by this guy in Rico de Padillas. And part of that deal that he cut was I want to be buried in one of these fucking crypts. Whoa. Right?

OK. It's like adding on it. I know they're going to give me whatever I want. I also want this. OK. It's kind of a large ask. I'd like to be buried with saints and cardinals. Yeah.

But it's like you got us back two hundred million dollars. Oh, true. OK. You can. Yeah. OK. And we need you to get this money back for us or we look really bad or whatever the fuck.

OK. De Padillas is former lover named Sabrina. She said that she had seen Emanuella after her kidnapping and that she had been held by the De Padillas gang for several months. She also claims she saw Emanuella's lifeless body in a sack before it was dumped in a cement mixer. I know on a construction site in a seaside town in Rome, but she might be a little crazy and also the construction site, it turns out, had been built after, you know, before Emanuella.

It had already been built? Yes. Yeah. So it wasn't credible, but there's some weird credible shit that she has information of. Yeah. But she also might be like, I don't know. Well, they always say that, right?

Yeah. That's like the ultimate disqualifier. She's crazy. She's so crazy, and then it's a person that's going, I actually witnessed this entire thing and owned, then no one believes you. Right. That's very true. Yeah.

Anyway, the Orlando family lobbies the Vatican to open De Padillas' tomb, because remember they had said that look in there and you'll find some information. The Vatican actually agrees to open the tomb, which is crazy. When it's opened on May 13th, 2012, only Padillas' remains are inside. Oh. I know. Bummer. You can see the links there, I find very interesting.

Yes. Yeah. Very. The most deserving theory revolves around a concerted effort on behalf of the Vatican, local police, and regional lawmakers to kidnap young girls like Emanuela Orlandi and Muriela Grigori and force them to be sex slaves. Mm-hmm. What's that TV show we watched a long time ago that had similar undertones?

Top of the Lake? Top of the Lake. Top of the Lake. Good job. It goes all the way to the top of the lake. Okay, on May, in May 2012, also an 85-year-old exorcist named Gabrielle Amorth claims that Orlandi was kidnapped by a member of the Vatican police for sex parties and then murdered. Oh.

That's what he says, but this guy is fucking like the kind of guy who's like Harry Potter is Satan and shit. Oh. You know what I mean? Sure. He claims that an official of an unnamed foreign embassy was involved as well, but he's a little cuckoo, but like maybe like a little bit of what he says is true. Well, I feel like these days when we are actively watching all conspiracy theories come to life

in front of our eyes, it's getting easier and easier to believe every theory of everything because you're just like, yeah, those exist. Yes, this has been proven to be real. And the cuckoo people are the ones who actually come forward and don't mind seeming cuckoo by fucking saying these things. Right. All right. Yeah.

Well, we're saying it. We're saying it. We're the craziest of all. The theory says that Emanuella was kidnapped by spies acting for the former Soviet Union and used to blackmail Pope John Paul II and to ending support for Poland's dissident solidarity union movement. Like Wallessa? That was a big thing in the 80s.

Really? Yeah. It's a big deal. It was just that Poland was basically getting liberated. And I think it was through like it got, it became international news. Like Wallessa was the leader of that party that basically was basically everyone's just like, oh yeah, people need to have freedom. Okay.

It's the kind of thing. It might have also had something to do with communist Russia, but I shouldn't talk about any of this. I'm just basically saying this is like me talking about old Scooby-Doo episodes, except for it was the politics that I absorbed as like a seven year old, essentially. Yeah. Put the news on at all. All times.

Yeah. Okay. I know this was back when the news only came on from six to seven. Oh, right. And your parents left it on. Yeah. So last year, the family's lawyer received an ominous note which contained a photograph of a tomb and an angel who was like watching over the tomb, like a concrete, I don't know,

angel. A statue. Thank you. And it said then the angel was pointing down at the tombs and the photograph said, seek where the angel indicates. That's straight out of the Da Vinci code. That's right. I mean, this is like Da Vinci code business.

It really is. Okay. In reference to the marble angel guarding the crypt in question. This clue leads to the Pontifical Tetonic Cemetery in the Vatican where there's an angel statue that's pointing at some tombs. So plans are made to open the fucking tombs. Really? This is when I, this is where I came in with my late night cold case.

Yes. Okay. The cemetery normally houses the remains of German speaking Catholic members, but like fucking 1800s we're talking. Okay. So this, so this past July, it's what, October right now? This past July, 2019, the Vatican opens the tombs. In them are supposed to be the remains of Princess Sophie of Hohlenlo and the Duchess

Charlotte Frederica. Okay. In it is the remains of no one. No bodies. No one. Oh. Not the princess or the Duchess or Emanuella. It's an empty tomb, which means people have been taken out, taken out of the tomb.

Right. Right. After it had been opened, they find an underground space inside the Pontifical Tatanic College, which had been covered by a manhole. Inside of that is thousands of bones that appear to be from dozens of individuals, both quote, adult and non-adult. But they look ancient, but they're DNA testing them now. They're currently conducting an investigation into the whereabouts of the princesses as

well. Oh my God. So they basically open the tomb in a new mystery started. That's right. It's a simultaneous mystery. That's right, which people think just goes to show you there's some fucking crazy Vatican mystery. Yes, because they don't have to explain anything to anybody.

There is a rumor that there's a Vatican, like a secret museum under the Vatican that has like old dinosaurs, Steven, you'll be interested in this, like old rare dinosaurs and things that like, you know, they're like, it's the Loch Ness Monster and blah, blah, blah. There's things there that they've never released out because the Vatican doesn't want the general public to know about it and it doesn't fit into their norm of like, this is what happened and this is what's going on and here's the narrative and that's the narrative you believe. Like if you shake people's faith, thinking that their faith is smaller than, than what actually is lose their fucking shit.

That's right. That's right. Not us. No. We consider all options. That's right. Not murderinos. We want to know the truth.

We want to know what's in that basement. Um, there's no basement at the Vatican, excuse me, excuse me, there are podcasts out there that try so hard to do this for real and we don't, God damn it, please go listen to one of those after this. That's right. There's rumors that Emanuel is not only alive and her brother knows about it and her brother is like the advocate that's trying to fucking get the Vatican to fess up. Yeah.

I'm spreading a rumor that she's, Emanuel is masquerading as his, her brother's wife. No. So, so bad that one reporter starts stalking his family for months trying to prove the theory. She wraps tape around her finger and stumbles into, um, like his mother, Emanuel's mother to get a sample of, uh, her hair for DNA testing and rummages through the garbage at his house and takes his wife's used tampons. Oh no. It's like, this is their fucking Jambane.

Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like it. Uh, he, uh, he, Pitra says nothing surprises in it, him anymore. So the disappearance has been linked to the KGB, the attempted murder of the Pope, the Vatican connection to the mobs, satanic orgies and money laundering at the Vatican bank among other things. But ultimately there's no tangible proof of what actually happened to Emanuella over

three decades ago. And although a lot of red herrings and conspiracies may have clouded over the facts. So there's, that's one of those things where there's so much fucking things to trace in places that lead nowhere that who knows what's real at this point. Right. Like who even knows who saw her that day and who's telling the truth. Right. Who was misleading people on purpose.

Right. What was real. Also, you know, 1983 is basically like saying 1883 in terms of police, uh, you know, forensic anything or all the, you know, people have to go back to the original police file and start there because it's the most simple and that's usually where the answer is. True. True. But it's also, I, it's so sad to me because it is that thing of like whatever the answer

is, it's that the victimization of like a teenage girl because it's like, we'll use you for whatever the plot is, whatever the crime is, it's, there's an innocent girl and her family. Totally. And it could just be some fucking sicko who kidnapped her, you know, and he's never gonna get his fucking justice. Right. Cause everyone's like, oh, it's a satanic, whatever.

We're just like, no, no, what about if there's just a, like a serial killer or serial predator that's just doesn't get caught. Exactly. Um, Emanuella's mother, Maria, who's now in her 80s, she set a plate for her missing daughter at Christmas for years after she went missing. Oh. Emanuella's father passed away in 2004. In March of 2013, the first Sunday mass of his pontificatation, his first fucking Sunday

mass, Pope Francis gave a sermon and after the mass, he greeted every person who left the sermon. He shook Maria, the mother's hand and said, Emanuella is in heaven. To which the brother, um, Pietro responded until there's proof to the contrary, I live and hope that she's alive and I hope you will help me find the truth. Yeah. To which the Pope responded, she's in heaven. What?

Petri himself thinks that the, um, the Muhammad Ali Agka angle was a red herring, the guy who shot at the Pope. Yeah. He says, I believe Pope John Paul had to weigh the truth about Emanuella against the image of the church and he made a choice. I believe he knows what happened. So a lot of people think that they could have gotten her back and it could have, there could have been some kind of trade, but it would have just ousted so many fucking stories

and so many like secrets that to them it wasn't worth it. And do it. Yeah. There's also the possibility because the Catholic church has a very bad habit and reputation of covering up for priests and clergymen that just, it's just some local pedophile clergymen that did it and they found out about it and they're covering for him. I mean, it's a proven fact that they do that. It's not, it's not a fucking, uh, no, we're not just saying it.

Yeah. We all know. We, everybody saw spotlight. We know how things go. Well, Pietro is undeterred. He refuses to stop searching for answers as to what happened to his little sister. And that is the story of the disappearance of Emanuella or Landy. Oh, like cold cases are the saddest.

I know. It's really awful and it's like, yeah, that family that they don't have an answer. So it doesn't help that the Pope says she's in heaven because that doesn't prove anything and they need proof so that they can at least be in a different space than not knowing. Totally. I mean, that's just, it's heartbreaking. It is for sure. Well, so what's funny is, can I tell the story of, so Georgia told me last week that she

wanted to do the story. She just did, but she said it's all about the Vatican and I don't understand you people like you're doing with your, your big weird church city state. Yeah. Holy sea. I learned a lot by the way. Thank you so much. Thank you.

I did too. As a lapsed Catholic. So she said, what if I do this and then she, and then you basically gave me my murder for this week. Yeah. I wanted to trade you this for this. Yes. But instead we're doing.

Oh, you wanted to trade. So you could do this. Yeah. But I'm just getting the credit. Speak as if. Yeah. You get the credit for the switch. No, no.

It's fine. Oh yeah. Oh, okay. So, so with your just suggestion this week, I'm doing the overstagan sisters and honey shoved teenage Nazi assassins. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

This story is so excited. Very cool. So I don't even know it that much about it. So I'm really excited for this. Oh, really? Yeah. I just like have read little basic articles. I can't believe that there hasn't been, there's one movie made about it just about

honey shoved, but I can't believe there hasn't been a movie and hopefully there will be because it's really incredible. Well, I feel like Quentin Tarantino's movie, what was it called? Inglorious Bastards. Kind of like has some hints of that. It absolutely does. Yeah. And it's kind of like the idea of like a fascist to the degree of Adolf Hitler and the insanity

and the speed freakiness of Adolf Hitler taking over almost all of Europe. I think it's cool that he made that movie because it basically shows how the people, how many people had to rise up against the Nazis and fight in their own versions of the resistance and be spies. And before that, they just owned a shoe store. They just were someone's wife or daughter. It was imperative. It was life or death.

It was life or death. And it is the kind of thing where people slowly watch this takeover happen, but everybody thought not in my country, there's no way it could happen here. There's a lot of that. And they were like, yes, in my country, I want this to happen. Right. And that's the scary thing is that there became this dividing line. So it's cool to hear these stories because we see lots of movies about the brave soldiers

and all the people that fought against like the Axis Powers and that's all cool. But like teenage girl resistance fighters, I think is a story that's so timely and perfect. So I got information from Smithsonian Magazine, The Washington Post, Wikipedia, again, please donate $5, History.com, The New York Times, and then a woman named Sophie Poldermans. I think that's how you pronounce her name. She wrote a book. I found out about Sophie Poldermans book because I stumbled upon in trying to look up podcasts that could kind of succinctly tell me the story.

I found this podcast called Inspiring Women, hosted by a woman named Kate Daniels. That is the loveliest. It's like your favorite high school teacher hosting a podcast to talk about these women that we don't get to hear about as much as we should. I love it. Okay. So I'll give you a, and I do apologize. I am not a World War II scholar.

Wait, what? No. This is, a lot of people are going to be disappointed after this. This is the mispronunciation episode, like Karen and Georgia. This is the, let's tread into areas we do not belong. Let's trade religions. Yeah. And just see what we have to say.

But stories that are so worth telling. So, okay, let's first talk about the, this is how she pronounces it on the podcast. So I'm just imitating a Dutch woman who's clearly, this is how you're supposed to say it. Okay. So, Pruis Overstegen is born on August 29th, 1923, and her younger sister, Freddie, Freddie, very easy to pronounce. You said that wrong.

Right. Oh, Freddie. Yeah. She is born two years later on September 6th, 1925, in Scotland, Netherlands, which is a small Dutch village that sits in what is now known as the city of Harlem. So the family lives, the Overstegen family lives all together on a large ship, fun. And the sisters are raised by very socially aware communist parents. So their mother makes a point of instilling a keen sense of justice in her daughters from

a very early age. So they spent their childhoods doing stuff like making dolls for the child victims of the Spanish Civil War. Yeah. So there's a lot of awareness about like, you know, what's going on with other people and helping out. And both of her parents, both of their parents are members of the International Red Aid, which is a social service group organized by the Communist International.

I've never heard of that before. Great job. The Communist International. This is research that I'm reading. Okay. But their parents get divorced when their mom gets fed up because the father doesn't work that much and doesn't make enough money. It's an amicable split, but after she takes her daughters off the ship, they don't see

much of their father after that. The family, the now smaller family moves to a flat where they sleep on straw mattresses that their mother makes by hand. Freddie was later quoted as saying that they didn't have much, but her mother always was able to figure something out. And the family was always singing. Oh, shut up. Yeah, come on.

Fuck you. Stick it together and helping out. Okay. Eventually their mother remarries and then gives birth to a third child, a boy. And so now Freddie and Kluis have a little half-brother. So now I'm just going to very lightly and very badly explain to you World War II. Just let me do it my way. Oh no.

If only you could take a shot of Paul Holtz's whiskey right now. I could do imagine. Essentially, I just tried to boil it. Everybody knows. We've all watched the History Channel one million times. But essentially. Read the book, Mouse or read, look at the book, M-A-U-S. The graphic novel, Mouse M-A-U-S is from the point of view of a survivor of a Nazi concentration

camp. It's one of the most incredible people I've ever read. And his son. It's so incredible and horrifying. And what a terrible time. So essentially Germany lost World War I and so did everybody else because there was such incredible loss of human life unlike anything anyone had ever seen before. Obviously, it was called World War I.

But it was horrifying and there's, you know, go see any movie about that because people didn't even know how badly it was going to impact soldiers and the human beings. There was just so much, so much loss of life, unlike anything anyone's seen before. And Germany afterwards, it was, you know, there's the whole story of the Deutsche Mark. It basically became useless. They got humiliated. They were humiliated. They were all poor.

Their money was worth nothing. It was like, it was terrible. And the problem with that is, and when people are oppressed with poverty, with all those things, then people rise to power who like to convince them that they're misfortune. There's a certain group that's responsible. What a great feeling that there's just one group that's responsible for all the things that's happened to a country and makes it easy. It makes it very easy and you can, you can, you know, focus all your hate in one direction.

It's simplistic. It's, and it, and it catches because it's the basest human reaction is, oh, it's not my fault. It's your fault. And oh, if I get rid of you, all of my suffering will end. Not true, obviously, most people hopefully either know that by now or will learn it. So let's now skip to 1933 when Adolf Hitler is appointed Chancellor of Germany. And he immediately organizes a campaign of violence and intimidation against Jewish people

throughout Germany carried out by the Nazi party. So according to Hitler, who I, as I said before, was on tons of speed. And that should never be discounted because white drugs are very bad for the brain. White drugs with megalomaniac, you're just gonna, and with a little art school heartbreak in there. Oh, it's, oh, it's not, it's not good. Yeah. Okay.

So, so according to Hitler, the Jews were to blame for everything that happened to the motherland since World War One. And even before that, because Jewish people had throughout history have become scapegoats for any time there was anything happening in a community. And this is, this is something like from other stories that you hear where it's like, oh, if young boys are being killed in a town, it's the Jews that just traveled through, they did it. Instead of, no, it's actually a thing called a serial killer that you won't know about

for a hundred more years. And it's, it's, I don't have to tell you, it's been going on for a while. But the problem here was this, his vicious campaign of propaganda, scapegoating and racism, it starts with Jewish business owners, but soon it spreads to all Jewish people. And the downtrodden Germans wanted to blame their poverty and their failure and their heartache on anyone else. And they now had a government sanctioned target. And this combined with the comforting yet psychotic fantasy that Aryan blood made them

the most superior beings on earth became this intoxicating drug that the nation began shooting up with abandon, thanks to Adolf Hitler. So with these most based hatreds justified and their worst insecurities erased, the violence of Nazism quickly spread beyond its German borders. And Freddie and Truess, who were eight and I think 12, grew up witnessing the inhumanity of the Nazi party firsthand. They see the propaganda, they see the cruelty, they see the intimidation and it solidifies their drive to fight for justice.

So Freddie and Truess and their mother, or they're all very vocal about their resistance, they hand out anti Nazi leaflets in their town and they defaced German propaganda posters that called on Dutch men to come and work in Germany. So they were, they were in it before World War Two was even declared. Yeah, throw a tag up on that, right? No way, say no way, as early as you can. Freddie's mother begins routinely hiding Jewish refugees who are from Amsterdam and Germany in their home before the war even started in 1934.

The girls gave up their bedroom to start housing Jewish families who needed to go into hiding. So in early 1940, when Freddie is 14 and Truess is 16, the sisters get a visit from France of Wonderville. I'm, I'm nailing these names and he is the commander for the Harlem Council of Resistance and he formally invites the family to join in the fight and he explains that it'll involve military training and the girls are like, we're in, entirely, of course. They're very excited about the idea of quote starting a kind of secret army to fight the Nazis and the sisters become the first two women to join the then seven person resistance

group. Yes. So it's a tiny little group and these girls are all in. Fuck yeah. And just in time, because in May of 1940, the Nazis invade the Netherlands and with a Nazi occupation now a reality, the work of the resistance becomes crucial. So there isn't enough time for Freddie and Truess to get the military training that they were promised, but they are taught how to march and shoot in the seclusion of the woods.

So they get, they, they learn some stuff. And once our training is complete, the teen sisters begin their daring acts of resistance. So one of the main things that they were doing was transporting Jewish families and refugees to designated hiding spots. And they were very involved with doing that. And in fact, early on Truess was in a boat filled with Jewish children that they were trying to ship out of the area and the Nazis bombed the boat and all of the children drowned. So these young girls, and I mean, we're talking about teenage girls saw some horrific, horrific

acts of war firsthand that, that would then go on to propel them to basically match the horror because they knew they had to. So they did things like they blew up railways with dynamite. They planted once a communist flag at the Nazi headquarters and they rode around on their bikes and it just seemed like they were two young girls, pretty girls were riding around on bikes. And the Nazis never suspected that they were actually two resistance fighters. And if they had and stopped them, they would have found that the girls were riding around

with handguns in their baskets because they weren't out for joy rides. They were tracking Nazi targets. So basically the resistance would name the ranking, usually a high ranking Nazi officer. And then the girls would go out and find them and track them and corner them and basically ambush them, shoot and kill them and then ride away unsuspected. Oh my God. And just, I will make the point that Sophie makes on the inspiring women podcast. There was no operating judicial system in the Nazi occupied Netherlands.

So there was, it was only, it was a Nazi government now. They were there, they took over and there was, they had to fight them and they had to do something. Yeah. There was nobody looking out for them. And meanwhile, you know, they built Dockow, I think in the early 30s. Yeah. So concentration camps were going there.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I mean, they were sending almost everybody there unless you were deemed pure white and all that shit. But in the beginning it was communists and resistance fighters and all that shit. Anybody that was developmentally disabled, anybody that was blind handicapped, if you were somehow discovered to be gay, they were sending people there, you know, I think we all know this in all the different ways.

But I mean, it was, it was, I mean, it's ridiculous to say it was, it was a nightmare or something like that. But I mean, the world had turned upside down in Europe. Okay. So, so Freddie becomes very adept at this idea of being able to ride around because she looks younger than every, all of them, obviously. So she was actually the first member of this resistance to kill a Nazi. And later truists would say about this work that she paid the price that they all did

because it wasn't, it wasn't something that they were cocky about. She said, quote, it was tragic, very difficult, and we cried about it every time afterwards. We did not feel it suited us. It never suits anybody unless they are real criminals, but one loses everything. It poisons the beautiful things in life. Yeah. If you're someone who's fighting for your freedom and for your, and for citizens' freedom, you don't want to murder someone.

No. But that's, but you have no choice. Right. You have no choice. And you're seeing, I mean, you know, we, we know what the Nazis did and just in the day to day, these are people who came and had, had absolutely no humanity to them, you know. But then, then the next phase of the plan started as they got a little bit older, which

is the sisters began to frequent bars where German officers hung out and they would get all dressed up and look really beautiful and go and flirt with the Nazis. And then they would lure them out into the woods where either they would shoot them or the members of the resistance would be hiding and they would get ambushed and shot. Oh my God. That's what you get for being a Nazi. That's right. And so then in the spring, between spring and summer of 1943, another young woman by

the name of Hanny Schaft joins the Harlem Council of Resistance. So she'd actively been fighting against the Nazis in the Netherlands herself. She was stealing ID cards for Jewish residents so that they could be protected and escaping and so that they could be protected, sorry. The Council of Resistance approached Hanny because they heard that she had left school after refusing to sign a pledge of loyalty to the Nazi soldiers. Her university was forcing all of the students to sign. So she was like, fuck all y'all and leave school.

And the resistance like resistance is like, hey, come and join our team. We need this. So together, Frédéric and Hanny successfully assassinate many high ranking Nazi officials. But on March 20, and it goes on for a while so that then the Nazis start to catch on that people are being murdered and how is this happening? And Hanny had red hair. So eventually the story starts to come out that you have to be careful of the girl with the red hair.

So on March 21, 1945, Hanny is riding her bike, transporting underground papers and a pistol when she's stopped by Nazis at a checkpoint. And because they all know and have been warned about the girl with the red hair, they search her bike and they find the papers and the pistol and they realize this is the member of the resistance that's been killing high ranking officers. They interrogate her and they find out that she is the person they think she is. So she is Hanny Schaft. So Hanny Schaft is tortured and executed by firing squad on April 17, 1945.

She was only 24 years old. Holy shit. 18 days later, the Netherlands is liberated from the Nazis. Yeah. Hanny has, of course, since become a national hero in the Netherlands. She was reinterred in the honorary cemetery, Urbegov Plats Blumendal, in the presence of Princess Juliana and Prince Bernard. Her legacy is remembered throughout the country and actually in 1981, a movie called The Girl

with the Red Hair was made about her life. Truis would go on to speak publicly about all of the work that she, her sister and Hanny did during the war. Truis becomes known for her public speaking and for her artwork, those paintings and sculptures that she did to kind of process what they went through fighting in the resistance. And she also writes a memoir called Not Then, Not Now, Not Ever. Yeah. Yeah, girl.

None of the three women ever reveal the exact number of Nazi officers that they assassinated saying that their soldiers and soldiers never reveal the number of people they've killed. So it was a very difficult after the war. The sisters had a really hard time. Obviously, they had very bad PTSD. Yeah. They didn't know it at the time. They had nightmares.

They had depression. They went through a lot of stuff. And actually, Freddie, she preferred to stay out of the spotlight. She got married to a man named Jan Decker and she had three children with him, which she says is what helped her cope with the trauma of her past. In 1996, Truis found the National Hanny Schaft Foundation in the Netherlands in Hanny's memory and the foundation works to inform people, particularly young people, about the perils of extremism and fascism to encourage them to actively fight for justice in their daily

lives. In 2014, Freddie and Truis are awarded the Mobilization War Cross, which is a very high Dutch military honor for their resistance work by Prime Minister Mark Rutte. And in 2016, Truis passes away from natural causes at the age of 92. And then Freddie also passed away from natural causes and it was a day before her 93rd birthday. And she survived by her three children, her four grandchildren and their half-brother. And if you want more information about these three amazing women, please read Sophie Polderman's book, Seducing and Killing Nazis.

That's incredible. Yeah. The full title, Seducing and Killing Nazis, Hanny, Truis and Freddie, Dutch Resistance Heroines of World War II. It could not be a longer title. And that is the incredibly inspiring story of three young Dutch resistance fighters, Truis and Freddie Overstegen and Hanny Schaft. Karen.

That was amazing. Did I explain it all to you correctly? You did it great. The World War II explanation was amazing. I loved it. I'm serious. I really have watched actually a lot of history channel stuff about it because it's that kind of thing of how did this happen?

How did this happen? I think it's the same thing with true crime where it's this crossover of like, what's life been like for other people? I have to know more about it. Yes. I know it's not been what my life is and I just want to learn whatever I can. And thinking about people who have been everybody, every side of victims of war. And seeing how the even like multitude of pain it creates.

There aren't any winners really, you know what I mean? It's like there's things get maybe rebalanced in a better way, but there's so much, there's so much human cost. And I think that's kind of the like, you want that to be like, yeah, I shot a bunch of people. But of course they're just like, no, it was absolutely not like that at all because they didn't want to be in that position in the first place. Right. Right.

They were doing what they felt they had to do. Yeah. For humanity. Yeah. And thank God they did because they saved. They saved a ton of people. That's incredible. Yeah.

Good idea, Georgia. Thank you. I'm so glad I didn't do that. That worked very hard. I definitely am sweating a lot. But yeah. Great job. Thank you.

What's your fucking hooray? What's a positive thing? So okay. This one I actually sent to you, I believe in a text, but it's our friend, Brené Brown. And if you go on to brenéadebrown.com, there is a video on there. It's Super Soul Sessions, so it's called the Anatomy of Trust. It's up Oprah. And right, Oprah's still doing it for us all.

And the Anatomy of Trust is this incredible Brené Brown video that everyone needs to watch about if you have trust issues, if you have relationship issues, whatever it might be. It's everybody. Yeah. Everyone, and it's kind of, it very much reminds me of how mind blown I was after the vulnerability video, the first one I saw of hers, it's so huge and viral. But this one is really amazing about how to have better relationships, how to build trust

and how to be trustworthy. And how that is just as important for you to be able to trust other people as, it's like we always want to go like, oh, but this person did this to me or whatever. But it's like, but actually if you can build your own sense of trustworthiness in yourself, which is about, which is basically about knowing yourself and having kind of a centered moral view, it's just such an, why am I trying to synopsize it? And I want to, and I haven't watched it. Like you send me stuff sometimes where I'm just like, I can't with this, right?

Like it's just like too big for me right now. I always like to do heavy shit. Yeah. And sometimes like you gave me a really nice like grieving pamphlet recently and I have it out on my desk and I'm just like, I'll get there when I can get there. You'll get there when you need it. And then I think this is one of those things too, where I'm just reminding me that I need, this is exactly what I want to talk to my therapist about this week.

Yeah. It's big feelings. You definitely need like a half an hour privately so you can cry as much as you want and as hard as you want or not at all. But there's just things in it. You just go, oh yeah, like it's just, it's very, very helpful. And it actually is very kind of like, it's just kind of centering and calming in that way where if you have trust issues or if you're worried about the kind of relationships you

have and the way you have them, you don't have to worry about it. You just have to do work. That's all. It's, and it's baby steps. It's just like, you just have to kind of become aware and do your best because, and that's like, that's why Brene Brown's so awesome because she just goes, here's the science. Here's what works. Here's what we, when we do our studies, here's what we see.

And it's really, it's not like any kind of finger pointing. It's more like, ooh, what about a four step plan to feel better in this way? It's really cool. It's like, you're talking to me, but you are. I'm talking right in your face. Yeah. There's nobody else. But it's the same thing with like, you know, you recommend, I mean, this is dumb, but

you recommend books to me and I just don't pay attention to you and then I come back and go, have you read this book? Yeah. I told you to read that book. It's this, I think we all take it in when we're supposed to. So it's just like, put that in your, put that, you know, put that in your filing cabinet and see what happens. But to anybody else that's, that kind of like is looking for this thing, you can't go wrong

on brenébrown.com anyway. But that video especially, because my therapist has been telling me to watch it for literally three years. Oh, wow. And then I finally was like, fine, fine. You're going to have like a daily, the daily Brené website where you just post a daily Brené quote for real on her Instagram. There's a lot of daily Brené, but she's doing it on Instagram.

That's great. I mean, I'll watch it finally. Yeah. Do it when you feel like it. I feel like that I finally cooked a meal for literally the first time in like a year. Oh, shit. You know, I love cooking, but I just don't have time to do it and I, it just takes so long.

It's overwhelming. It was going to be that I cut my finger real bad. What did you make? I just made a little chicken and vegetables meal. Oh, okay. I then tapped the knife on accident and sliced, I guess I have nice knives. You do. That was going to be my fucking hooray.

But then just coming here tonight, I saw a corgi puppy in the parking lot named Schmutz. And then I think I need a puppy now. So that's my fucking hooray is Schmutz. This teeny corgi puppy that just changed my life. I can't imagine anything would be cuter than a corgi puppy. It's, I just stood there and the sweet woman was like, Rika, do you want to, do you want to say hi to me? Like a little kid was like, I do.

I really need to say hi to Schmutz. Yes. I do need to talk to Schmutz real bad. She's very sweet. And then you're like, she tried to bite my shoelaces, the puppy, not the woman. Right. It was very sweet. Ma'am, please, I'm trying to talk to your dog.

It was, it kind of was life changing. Yeah. You really were lit up when you came in. Oh my God. Screaming. You're just pointing toward the door like, do you know it? There was a puppy outside. I made everyone go out there.

I mean, it was okay. Um, guys, thanks for listening. We appreciate you guys so much. This is fucking incredible. And we're so lucky. We still love our job. That's right. It's so nice.

Yeah. Thanks for listening. Yeah. Thanks for making it happen for us and stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Yeah.