My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 2 - My Second Best Murder

Episode Date: January 23, 2016

In this episode, Karen & Georgia discuss Paul Bernardo the Scarborough Rapist/Schoolgirl Killer, the assassination of Robert Kennedy and Alie Ward shares a hometown high school murder story.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hey, welcome to my favorite murder. Hey, I'm Karen. I'm Georgia. And we love murder. We love murder. We don't want to get murdered. We love true crime. We love true crime. We love to talk about bad things that have happened to good people. Yep. Hopefully they won't happen to us if we talk about it enough. It's as if we could ward it off with just our with our positive verbal energies and our anxiety over getting murdered. Because sometimes when you share an anxiety,

it alleviates it a little bit. Yeah, I think it also lessens the chance of it happening. That's right. We're really we're changing the future with our words or diffusing the possibility of getting stabbed multiple times. We're diffusing the stab bomb. You know what I have a problem with though? Whenever I talk about like murder, how I could die or like on a recording, I just think about them using it when it actually happens in in my like 48 hours. Yes. Yeah. And you're 2020. For example, there's a video, our new favorite show that I wouldn't let you talk about with me. There's a video. Let me just tell people who are listening. Start from the very beginning. Georgia was very harsh with me when I arrived at her apartment. She said, have you been watching

that? And I said, don't talk about it. Have you been watching? I barely had the word watching out and she screamed, don't talk about it. But didn't explain that she wanted to save it for the podcast was as if this was a forbidden. Like I literally was like, never talk about it. Like how I am with Sex in the City. Don't talk about it in front of me. Oh, you don't want to spoiler. Is that why? Right. Ever in my life. I want to keep that pure for the rest of my days. You've never seen one. You've never done one episode. I saw part of once when they went to LA and it was it really depressed me. Fair enough. Okay, let's talk about it. Okay, I meant I meant we'll save it for the show. Okay, this is the show. Okay, there's I just started watching it yesterday. Same with me.

What episode are you on? Two. Okay, this is fun. Because I'm on like, it just we just finished three. Oh, okay. The show we're talking about is making of a murder, making a murder, making a murderer on Netflix. It's like, think the jinx, but fucking better. Yeah. Do you love it? It's amazing. What I think is amazing is we are truly now in this era where everyone's life has been recorded in some way, because there is so much footage of that guy so much so much footage. And you realize it's because that's how everything works these days. Yeah, but he was also in the news, like for the past 18 years. Yes. So the story is that and it's really funny because this story there's two separate stories here, one of which the murder I already knew about. So as

soon and I didn't realize that that's what was going on until they started talking about the murder. So the first episode, which I thought was a standalone thing, I thought they were just going to talk about like, people who got exonerated. Oh, the first episode is the story of the guy Steven Avery getting spoilers. Yeah, but you're going to see the first episode. It's fine. He gets exonerated for rape after 18 years in prison. And kind of finding out that he's been railroaded by his own cousin and the people that right in his community. It's one of those like it's like the West Memphis three words like how the fuck did this get as far as it did. Yeah. One of those like these guys clearly a huge miscarriage of justice. This is terrifying. We could go to

prison at any moment for anything. Yeah. Well, yes, because the the you pull back, you realize it's that freaky thing of like, as you pull back and realize this is happening all over the country, all over the world, where people in power, it's an abuse of power and people just doing whatever they want to do. There's these amazing interviews because all the depositions, there's like hundreds of hours of depositions. And it's these people that I swear to God, if it was a sketch show, you'd be like that guy's too broad. Totally. Like the the mealy mouthed district attorney guy with the little glasses and the kind of perfectly balding head that was like, they are so depressing. Like this they are the reasons I point to all of them that I never want to work in an office job

again. If I can save myself because those are the people you work with and you fucking hate them. And more more so for me is watching people lie. It's so fascinating because you can smell a lie. It doesn't matter how you think you might be good at it or how do you know you're who do you think you are? Everyone knows you're lying. And there that one sheriff who is kind of big with the mustache that yes, who did a drawing and got them framed like a fucking disgusting like he's the guy who goes hunting and gets like, and like kills an animal with like a shot to the head and then frames it on as well. Crazy. I mean, like just the the level of smugness and the way that guy would talk what I made me love that he talks like I'm you're stupid.

I am so much smarter than you. I'm gonna act like it when we're really talking to a lawyer that's deposing totally at a lawyer who gets paid to argue. So the guy's like, let me finish. Like the lawyer ends up feeling like a teacher and this guy's like, I don't remember such a smug piece of lies. What do you think? Yeah, he's just all of it. It's so gross. And then it turns into and I think we could talk about the crime because this is a murder that we probably would have eventually gotten to because it's stuck with me for so it's stuck with me because of what this woman went through the torture that she went through. Oh, no. Did you ever hear about it before? I don't know because I'm I'm like right in the part where they're looking for her. I mean,

I obviously know she do you remember there was one where she gets kidnapped and tied up and the nephew and the sky raped and tortured her. I remembered it from the because of the nephew part. Okay. So when that started happening and they start talking about it around the third episode, I was like, oh, shit. And then his nephew comes in. So I'm like, well, this is then he did it because I remember this murder. But they get to it's crazy. So wait, basically, you're remembering a thing that you saw on like a 2020 style thing. But it was wrong. I don't. Well, that's what we're that's what we're examining. Okay, is did he commit this murder or did they set him up because this guide Steven Avery is now suing the shit out of the county that put him in jail wrongfully?

And are they setting him up because this woman disappeared? Right? Are they setting him up for the murder? Yeah, that's like the question they're going to answer. I'm positive they are and I'm only halfway through the second episode. It's great. And it's wonderful because it's one of those things with serial serial where episode to episode, we're like, he's guilty. He's not guilty. He's guilty. And they the reason they found out about it is because the nephew confessed. And you're like, Well, then he did it. And then they show you they have footage of the nephew confessing. And it is. It is troubling. Oh, no. Like when you say I can tell people are lying. He's lying. This kid is making this shit up. And it's a false confession. But is it I don't know. I'm sorry.

Is it? I'm sorry. But it's that weird thing. We're also it's so much easier when you're watching a documentary and going like, look at this guy. So it's been laid out for me. Right. Like if they were manipulating me to not like people are like people or I fall for that stuff. Everything totally, totally, every time. And everyone now, including us, thinks we're like fucking we're like sleuths and we're like professional and good at this and can sense things and really like we're just we just like have a podcast and like talking about it. Well, but I'll tell you this. Here's one thing I can sense is when a big fat smug guy with a mustache is lying for sure. I know for sure. I can tell or when they get real like their cadence is very

condescending like I don't remember. And it's all like, how would I know? Well, how would I know that? Yeah, how would I remember this from years ago? Right? Fuck you. It's so funny. Well, it can also tell when there's a 16 year old in a police room being deposed by or being questioned without parental like guardians or lawyers and being fed information. It's fucking great. Wow. It's chilling. So my my hope is that episode 10. Don't watch it without me. I'm like, well, watch this together. Oh, good idea. We'll get everyone together who's watching it. Because you are live. We could be recording. Watch it together. I don't know. That's great. Something will happen. So we just scream the entire time. Just a lot of screaming. You can't even hear it.

Yeah. Yeah. Let's watch 10 together. You know, what's really funny, too, is I mean, this will come out later. But people I bet a lot of people will have watched it by the time this actually comes out. What's fun is it's not episodic. You can go binge the fuck out of it right now. Yeah, it's all on there. That's the best. But it seems like a bunch of people did that because it was like a wildfire totally on Twitter being like making a murder like all of a sudden in a five hour block everyone was tweeting that they were watching it. It was weird. Smart. Like I feel like episodic makes people more into something. Makes you smarter. No, makes people more into something. Oh, oh, like, yes, because you just sit in your house and watch it all day. And it like

becomes your life. Totally. Like now that Fargo's over, what am I going to watch? For real. God bless Fargo. Right. Gorgeous. If Kirsten Dunst doesn't win all the awards, even like the ones that don't make any sense. I'm going to be bummed. Did I already brag to you that I know the casting director? No, she goes to my dog park. No. Yeah, she became dog park friends. And then after chatting and she's just a total like one of us kind of gal. Oh my God, turns up that. And so I we have each other's phone numbers like to text because everyone's want to be like, Oh, text me if you're going to go. Yeah. So we'll be at the dog park at the same time. Holy shit. And if you're going to go bring Kirsten Dunst. The first episode I watched I text her,

I'm like, this show is amazing because I was, I loved the first season and I was like, there's no way the second season is going to be as good. And it was like so good. So good. So good. So yeah, everyone go watch. What is it? Making of a murder. Making of a murderer. Making of a murderer. Tell us about it. Oh, I made us a Facebook fan page, not fan. I made a my favorite murder, a Facebook page. Nice. So everyone go on there and talk about that and tell us your your your town murder, all this stuff. Yes, we want to know what's happened. What happened in your town that you've been talking about? Yeah, since you were 10. We want to know your Facebook murder, your favorite murder. What could be the Facebook murder? What if there was a Facebook

murderer? Oh, there's a Craigslist murderer. Yeah, not a face. It's so low rent. So should we get to what our favorite murders are? Yes, for this episode. Yeah. Do you want to go first? You want me to go to first? You want me to go first? You want me to go first? Yeah. This is one of the ones where I've done less research on it. But I know it. I know the story in my heart. Totally. These are these are more fun. It's a murder of my heart. But it's the Paul Bernardo Carla Hamulca husband and wife murder team, where it was in, I believe it was Toronto. Yes. Yes. And in the early 90s, and it was a weird power dynamic abusive relationship. And he basically he basically got his wife to help him lure teenage girls into their home so that he could

rape them and and ultimately murder them. And they started off with her younger sister. I remember I love this one. It's so crazy. They drugged her younger sister who was like 14. Yeah. They put drugs in her drink. And then like they roofied her and then he raped her and she videotaped it. Yeah, this is her younger, her younger sister. You thought Canada was all made to syrup and politeness. Totally. And there's one exception to that rule. And it's Paul Bernardo. But the reason I like this, aside from the insanity of that part, where they would drive around looking for teen girls, it's so scary because you think like you see a woman and you're like, I'm safe. Like if something is like, let's say for some reason, I was hitchhiking,

which I would fucking never do because I'm terrified of murder. But it had happened that I was and a couple stopped. I'd be like, this is okay because the woman's here. Yes. So he's not going to murder me with his like wife or whatever, which is that's how you know the story of the woman. Yep. In the box. Oh my God. It's so crazy. Yep. Georgia, the way you just did that, I wish you guys could have seen. You practically winked at me or like, yep, say no more. This is a day where Georgia knows everything I'm going to say to her. I do. But that girl, the woman got into the car because it was a couple in the front seat. And then they put her head in a carpeted box. How terrifying. So awful. And then they ended up keeping her in a box under the bed for seven

years. And then they tied her up. Did you see the photo of her tied up from her trial? No. They don't show her face, but she's like splay naked. And you know what the most fucked up thing about that story is, is that they brought her home to her house to be like, look, she's fine, everyone. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And that in and of itself was this big, a huge thing for him because he had the trial. And that idea that like, there's a syndicate that's out to get you so you can't go anywhere. You can't tell anybody. He made her, he told her that he made her sign a thing. Yeah. That said the company, I think he called it the company. I mean, would you, you wouldn't be like, I would never believe that as soon as I, I've actually, I thought about these

like, I would just start screaming the minute I got in the door of my family's house because he was like, look, we're dating. Everything is normal. So you can stop looking for her. But he broke her. He broke her. He broke her in the on the deepest psychological level. So it can't be that hard when you're putting someone in boxes to break them. It actually isn't. I don't think you if you, if you feed people like only sugar, don't let them sleep, make them jump around. That's how cults do it. Sugar really? That's like a, yeah. That's all like the moonies would do it. Why? Just because your, your brain is, if you don't have enough protein and you only, you only eat sugar, then you have these weird energy bursts and you do like a lot of crazy stuff and then you

are exhausted, but then they wake you up at three in the morning. Yeah. Do a weird. I'm, I'm putting myself in a cult then because I was just constantly, I mean, cookies, am I right? It is crazy. I need to eat more protein. Yes. So anyway, but here's the, here's my Twisteroo. That's kind of a hometown story. So Paul Bernardo was the husband of this hideous. They, of course, eventually caught him, but when they caught him, they, in taking his DNA, they linked him to a long standing set of unsolved rapes. They were calling them, they're calling him the Scarborough Rapist. And it was from a certain neighborhood in, it's Toronto, right? I keep thinking it might be Montreal. It's Canada. It's, I'm pretty sure it's Toronto, but let us know if I'm wrong. Yeah. Always. On the

Facebook page. Give me a thumbs up if I'm wrong. But so the Scarborough Rapist was, was people were terrified. It went on for years. Scarborough, New York? No, no, no. In Canada. Sorry. This is the one that I didn't look at. I'm pretty sure it's, it's a neighborhood of Toronto. Okay. Got it. But so my friend Paul Greenberg, who you might know him from that one year that Neil Patrick Harris hosted the Emmys and he walked out behind him and just stood and stared. Why did he do that? It was a bit. Oh, okay. He's a writer and he's a comic. He's really funny. So anyway, he told me this story and this is my favorite. So the years before Paul Bernardo and his wife started killing young girls for his pleasure. There was a Scarborough Rapist and so Paul's mother was at the time, I guess,

in her seventies probably. And she lived in an apartment building that had a swimming pool at the top. And she's a really good artist. And so she would go up and swim laps every day and, you know, she's retired and I think she lived by herself. Anyway, one day she's up there, swimming laps, and a young man comes out onto the roof. And she doesn't really think much of it, you know, she's swimming laps. And then she notices that he's walking along the pool as she's swimming laps. Oh my god, like lapping. Like lapping with her walking back and forth. And so she like looks up and sees it and there's no one else up there. That's threatening. So she just keeps swimming laps and he's like tracking her and staring at her. And she's like, you know, an elderly woman

swimming. Jesus. And he's just like, she said it was the scariest thing ever. And then she didn't know what to do. At one point she was just treading water and like staring and didn't know what to do. And then the door burst open and like three families came out and, you know, came to use the pool and all the kids jumped in the pool and he left. Okay. So she got out of the pool, put on put on a towel. That's really important. I was scared she was just flipped on some flip flops. And she went down to her apartment and drew a picture of his face. She had to do it while she remembered it. So then she put the picture, she called the cops, they said, you know, it's like a complaint or whatever. And then however many years it was later, let's say three or five,

when they showed Paul, Paul Bernardo on the news for this husband and wife killing thing, the mom walks over and pulls the picture out of the drawer and it's him. It was Paul Bernardo that was doing that. And then later on with DNA, they linked him. Did she call and was like, listen dudes? Well, at that point, they had, I think they'd already figured out that he was also the Scarborough rapist. Holy shit. So he was just raping all over the place. And like, and doing stuff like that, like, like was the name essentially, you know, it sucks about being a woman is you never know. Like if something is nothing or not, you know, that's right. Like you might just see this guy pacing and you never see him again, or you might go in your house and he's standing

in your living room. That's right. Like what is nothing or like a boyfriend is stalking you or due to stalking you. Is it nothing or this guy going to murder me? You just don't know. I mean, not the stalking isn't awful too. But like, is he just like obsessed for the next couple weeks until I find someone else or is he a murderer? Right. That's like the day that I was at the dog park alone at like seven in the morning. And I looked up and there was a guy, I thought at first that he was chipping balls on one side of the dog park. And then I looked and he had a sword. And he was just swinging a sword around and I was just like, well, this is either my last downer. Yeah. Or maybe my dog will attack him, but probably not. Yeah. It's not really her style.

And I just waited and he eventually left. Was he like, practicing in an open space or just being a fucking weirdo? He was by the bushes. So there was a weird element to it. Yeah, it wasn't cool. It's another thing aside from a woman being present that you're like, your guard is down, but like daytime. Yes, morning. Guard is down when it's light out. Yeah, you don't expect anything to happen. Which is why it's the perfect time. And dog park, the most innocent person. Dog park. Yeah. We're only good things happen. All right. It smells like why would you want to go there if you didn't have to? Out of there. Yeah. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my new podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, I share a

quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal master minds, psychopaths, and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton serial killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia, and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. What's yours? I feel like

mine's cut. Okay, I'm not going to belittle myself. All right. Because this is my favorite. I'm not going to belittle myself of all places, not on our murder podcast, Georgia. Because this isn't an interesting, oh, I meant to add a thing to your thing. The woman, what's her name? Carla Hamoka. Cut out of jail a while ago. Oh, yeah, that's right. She's out. That was a big part of it is she tried to say that he was controlling her mind, which some people say is very possible, because she was a victim of his abuse as well. But at the same time, you're still a responsible though for what you do. You can't kill your younger sister and think that that's just going to go, you know, did they accidentally kill her or was it on purpose? Did they drug her and she had an

overdose? I don't remember. That could be part of the story. I don't remember, but she's out. Isn't that weird that like she's just out? Yeah. That's so let's talk about some of the benefits of being a woman. Shorter murder sentences. Yeah. More benefit of the doubt. Yeah. You take some shit. You get some shit. Yeah. In your sister's death and you killed her. And then you kill your sister. No, you have to buy one less Christmas present every year. Yeah, right. Maybe that sister was a real pain in the ass. Do you think her parents just talk to her or no, still? I'd say probably no. I know. If they killed the teen sister. Parents are so forgiving though. I guess that they're like one line you can cross and it's like killing her.

I mean, who knows? It really puts them in a bad position. Okay, my favorite murder. Okay, this is it's like a it's not as interesting, but it's my favorite because I feel like it changed the course of history so drastically that everything would be different today. Lincoln's assassination. No, but not far from that. Okay, all right. I think our world would be it's such a better place if this person hadn't been killed. Robert F. Kennedy. Oh, because he was a good person and a darling JFK was just a fucking flashy playboy. But RFK hot take Georgia. Yeah, I just it makes me so sad that he was killed and and I don't think there was a conspiracy even though there's they're trying to make a million conspiracies of it.

There's the girl in the polka dot dress. Do you remember that that thing where they say there's a girl in a polka dot dress who was mind controlling him? What's the mind control thing that they call MK ultra MK ultra and she she mind controlled Sirhan Sirhan to shoot Robert F. Kennedy. Yes, and ran out. They saw someone said they she ran out of the Ambassador Hotel where he was killed screaming. We shot him, you know, whenever found her. Um, yeah. And if you were if you were some kind of a super deep agent, yeah, in the MK ultra program, would you be would you yell that? You can get a little more controller. I think you'd be better at your job than that. That was a really good point. Like you could do all of these things. But yet you start screaming.

You snap. I mean, that's an interesting. I mean, I I don't put it past anything that the kind of things that have gone on governmentally. Sure. I believe in all of those. I believe in the idea that they were trying to train people to be like sleeper murderers. Do you just like would wake up and shoot somebody? Do you believe it? Yeah. Like Manchurian candidate style. Because they like, do you hear? Do you fucking hear my? Is that your cat? That's my fucking cat screaming in the other room. And this is why I can't sleep at night. Maybe your cat's in pain. She's not. I've taken her to the doctor multiple times. She's fine. Okay. She's fucking fine. She's an idiot. Is she screaming? We shot him. Is she the sleeper agent that we've been fearing all along?

Probably. She's already ruining my life. You know what? If they could control cats, that would be it. I mean, it would be over. Cutest army. The other thing is she probably if you're going to think about it, she wouldn't have worn a polka dot. Like, why would you wear something so like easily explainable? Right? You'd wear a black dress. You'd wear pants and like you would look normal. There's so many ways to blend in. That's polka dots. Polka dots always says, Hey, look at Minnie Mouse over here. Polka dots, white gloves. I'm here to have fun. It's me. The town slut. I'm here for the shooting. So you really think who do they pick and why? Just like maybe criminals that no one will believe anyways.

Could be that. Could be like, you know, Jason Bourne style. You were already in the army and then you got pulled into some kind of special program. And they just be on so much LSD for so long that your brain is as mush. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck, that would suck. I know. It would be crazy. But also it's weird that like, I don't know, all of that stuff is so crazy because it's like who is it the government or is it the mafia or is it, you know, the, the Kennedys have not had a good time of it in terms of being murdered. Yeah. But I think, I don't know. Are they, are they all just like, I think everyone in a public place in government is just a fucking puppet. Sure. So it's the bit, the rich, big business people behind the scenes. Right. You

know, the Dow Chemical family, the guy from Fox catching. Oh my God, totally him. Did you watch the movie board the shit out of me? But then I watched the 30 for 30. Yeah, about it. And you're like, Oh, he this was so perfect and correct and right. And it's fucked up. It's better than the movie. Oh, I have to see that. I loved that movie. I was bored. It may be because I went by myself. And when I go see movies by myself, it makes me feel like I'm French or something. I get real stuck up about myself and like doing something. You're going to see a film. That's not a movie. It's not a movie. It's a film. Well, I had no idea what to expect. Vince was like, there's something about wrestling. And I was like, okay. And like, I went and I was like, this is the most

sport I didn't know. I think the half the audience in the theater when I went, we're watching a Correll comedy. So they only laughed when it was like when he when he brings the trophy. And he's like, I have a trophy now, mother or whatever. He did some weird speech and everyone's like kind of laughed, but they were just confused the whole time. Oh my God, they were watching a movie. You were watching a film. I was there for the film in my red polka dot. It's good. You should watch the 30 for 30 of it. Um, yeah, am I allowed to do boring murders like that? No, yes, because it's it's more the concept of it. Like, what was he up to that they needed to take him out? Well, here's the thing is the reason. But see, the problem with me is that I have is that the reason

Sirhan Sirhan who was arrested and is in prison for life for it was killed him makes complete sense. Whereas like, what's his little squirrely name who killed Lee Harvey, Lee Harvey, it's like, well, it doesn't really sound like. So Sirhan, the RFK was a supporter of Israel. Sirhan Sirhan was a Palestinian Jordan, Jordanian immigrant. And the day the day that RFK was killed was on the anniversary of the start of the six days war. So he killed RFK for his support of Israel, which makes sense through the six days war real fast. Israel kicked the kicked ass for like six days. Oh, it was a bad. I have a whole book on it. If you want, it's real boring. It's real boring. Is that how they, they set up the strip or whatever? Oh, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Is that how

they got their walls? Yeah. I don't know. I know nothing about anything. But so he, yeah, so that makes sense of the why this crazy person, there wasn't a lot of bodyguards going on at the ambassador hotel. RFK had just won the democratic or was about to win the preliminaries in California. So he's at, he's in a room full of people who are supporting him. So he doesn't have that much, you know, reason to fear things. Right. Yeah. Right. Well, but, but there's got to be the weird thing is what didn't that guy work at the hotel? No. Oh, he didn't. Was it really the bus boy? I thought he was like, at least dressed up like a bus boy. Oh, maybe. There are people who have dedicated their lives to studying this. So much. Didn't that happen at a hotel? Listen,

we, here at my favorite murder, we're fucking talking mad shit. And if you want something more than that, then you need to go watch the documentary. Then read your books. Yeah. Like, we're not prevent pretending to be good talkers. No. So yeah. And then there's also a theory that if you listen to the recording, there are more than eight shots fired, which Sir Han, Sir Han only had a gun, a 22 caliber with eight rounds in it. Wow. But you can hear like up to 13 maybe. So maybe there's a second shooter. Well, it sounds like there would have to be unless there was echoing. But I just feel like if you watch documentaries about RFK, his like, his stance on on racism and what he was doing for the poor and for minorities was so

extreme from anything we've any way we've ever treated people before, I think our world would have been a fucking much better place. I think that honestly, like, I think that there was a break in the space time continuum and everyone else when he didn't die, got to live in a great fucking world and we're stuck in this bullshit where he got killed. Wow. I really do think there was like a, what do they call them? Alternate reality. Alternate reality. A sliding doors starting going. Yes. And Gwyneth Paltrow, we got stuck with her in this one. And then the other one, there's no Gwyneth Paltrow. The other one at Sandy Bullock the whole time. Yeah. All Sandy Bullock all the time. Good times. Life is better. And here we are. Well,

that's dark, but I kind of thank you. I like, I like the concept of it, like imagine a world where somebody, a leader who actually really did have the people's best intentions of heart got through because that's almost seems impossible these days. I think he had, I think he had that. And I think we didn't deserve it. And he couldn't, he couldn't live because we didn't fucking deserve it. I'm such a good person. Not you. And I'm clearly you and I are like the best, right? I'm, I'm super nice to everybody all the time. I'm really understanding. I'm so patient. I'm so patient and kind. I don't care when people drive like shit. I won't scream at them. I don't scream terrible things out the window of my car. People or

we don't sit at a diner and talk shit on every single person. Oh my God. Is it time? It's our second podcast diner time where we talk public mad shit where we don't know where Mike's and we just talk shit on every single person. That would be, I feel like I can't believe that hasn't happened yet. Just truth. Just like a, well, I mean, I think there are some people that do podcasts mistakenly, but the idea of that a gossip podcast where people just suck shit. You listen to it every, if they put out five a week, you'd listen to everyone. Yeah. But can we be anonymous and no one knows who we really are? Well, we can. I was too late for us. Well, maybe two other random girls haven't

podcasted on Feral Audio. Isn't that weird? And it's just these two anonymous girls and they talk mad shit. They sound a lot like Karen and those girls from Ohio. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those girls, they're bitches. Let's talk shit about this girl. Let's talk shit. Mad shit. Okay. Yes. So those, those are two good ones. Those are, those are pretty good ones. Here's the first thing I thought of when you said Robert Kennedy. You know how he had a hand in shutting down that. I shouldn't get into this one because it's a whole other topic. Say it quick. It's a, I think it was called Westbrook or Brookhaven or Sunnybrook or whatever, but it's that mental hospital that's on Long Island or Staten Island, I mean, that got shut down in the 60s because

they were basically just taking developmentally disabled children and throwing them into big dark rooms and hosing them off every day. And like it was, I think it was one of Geraldo's first exposés. She went in there. I remember that. And they like on the single light on the camera, it looks like a horror movie from today where it's just kids huddled up. And when Robert Kennedy saw that, he went and shut that place down himself. That's the first thing I thought of. But that's where they think there's a serial killer that, that lives on the grounds of that hospital. That there's an, there's a, what's it called? Something C. Yes. There's a Clancy Clancy or something like that. That's a gold. I know. Watch the movie. There's a Netflix. It's so good.

It's really good. Um, it's called Stoxy. No, Crop C. Crop C. That's it. Crop C. It's really good and creepy. Remember a word with Karen in Georgia. Sounded out and work it out. It's a Banksy. Oh my God, we just saw two Banksy is Banksy's Crop C. Banksy's killing developmentally disabled children on Staten Island. Yeah, that's some fucked up shit. And unfortunately they also then like Reagan and Nixon just opened the fucking asylums and let everyone go. And which is why we have this homeless problem and mental illness issue. My mom was a psychiatric nurse and she in the, in the late seventies and early eighties when that proposition came up and it was Reagan. It was Reagan. Sorry. Sorry, Nixon. Nixon was long gone, but she used to rant about it every

single night and she called exactly what's happening today. She's like, these people will have nowhere to go. They will be wandering on the streets. They'll be assaulting people. They'll be like, these people need to be taken care of. And this is the coldest, like the idea that a leader would be like that you don't take care of the people that need help the most. And you just shut off all funding for that and say it's not our problem creates such huge problems. Listen, I'm going to say it right now. I would rather pay more taxes to get people mental fucking help and not have as much money myself than live in a world where we don't fucking take care of people. And there are just rampant mental illness and homeless and

starving people. Yeah. And that idea of it's too bad for you. Like I got mine. Yeah. When how did you even get yours? Right. People helped you. Right. Totally. Horrible. Everything is horrible. And if RFK hadn't died, that would have never fucking happened. That could have changed. What if he went and fist fought Reagan? And that was like, it was an actual battle. I did not hear fist fought. I heard something totally else and I just can't give it to myself. That's what I just heard when you said I was like, why'd she say that? But it's when you thought what I said. You said fist fought past tense of fist fight is what I said. That's not what I heard. Oh, yeah, they should have fought. They should have fist fought. They should have

fist fought. Or where am I? Um, yeah. And in alternative universe, though, there is just the most beautiful asylums and we go there sometimes when we just need a break. Yeah. They're all garden. Yeah. And everyone knows how to properly prescribe medication. And the medication is free. Flowing overflowing just bowls of medication everywhere. Like fountains. Fountains of Prozac. I'll take it. Open my mouth. Just like stick my head under the. I get some. Sure. Just relax. Yeah. There's the Adderall fountain. It's never abused. I'm not great. Everyone graduates from college. Oh, drugs.

Let's. Okay. So now is the time in our lives when we have a guest tell us their, their, our favorite thing in the world, their town crime. Yes. We love it. Like, what's the crime that happened in your town that like you remember when you were a kid and you're like, Holy shit, this thing happened. It's amazing. Tell us on Facebook page. We're just calling it Facebook page now. Facebook page, the Facebook page. Tell us on Facebook page, your town. Don't message us because we don't care. Put it on the page. Like so everyone can bask in it. Yeah. Don't put a link. Like tell it in your fucking words. Put a link too because that's cool. But it's almost like a creepypasta that you're writing. Totally. But it's your,

it's true. Yeah. Like what's the truth? Tell us. Don't make it up. We'll know. Oh yeah. We can fact check this. We won't fact check it. We can fact check it. We won't. All right. So our story this week comes from our friend Allie Ward. She is a friend of mine. We're on shit together. She's also on Innovation Nation on Saturday mornings. Allie Ward. You can find her by that name on everything. Okay. So let's listen to her message. Hey, what's up? This is Allie. So okay. You asked me to call and tell you about this murder that happened in my high school. And I went to school in Arenda, California, which is like very wealthy, nice suburb near Berkeley. I went to the Maramonte and they had a really good college prep program. They had like a Latin

program. So my family lived in the area until we graduated. But Arenda was known for being this very Tony suburb where this horrendous, like so such a stupid murder that it seems fake. But what happened was this girl named Kirsten Costas was a popular girl. She was from a very affluent family as well. She was like a cheerleader and she was part of the sorority program at my high school, which sounds like like, well, I'm sorry, it's high school. But yeah, there was like, there was sorority in my high school. That's how, that's how much extra money people had. So there were these two competing sororities. Anyway, there was a girl named Bernadette Clottie who was in the lesser sorority, I think, and she was really jealous of Kirsten. And she

was trying to befriend her, but she told her at one point that she was going to take her to this dinner for new pledges or whatever. And according to police records or whatever, they went to this dinner. Kirsten was like annoyed because there wasn't food being served. I don't know because that part sounds weird because I went cheerleader in the 1980s, like none of them. Anyway, Bernadette apparently got weird, according to Kirsten. And then Kirsten fled to a neighbor's house and said, my friend's acting weird. They're like, okay, I'll drive you home. So they, this like neighbor drove her home. And then there was a pinto following them the whole way in the pinto with Bernadette Clottie with an 18 inch knife, knife

in her car, in her pinto. So the neighbor dropped off Kirsten. Bernadette runs up the door. The neighbor thought he saw this fight, but no, it was a knife fight, a one person knife fight. And Bernadette just stabbed the shit out of Kirsten Kostas. Totally killed her. Um, she died before she got to hospital and Bernadette got sentenced, but she, she got out by the time she was like 23, but she, she wasn't even implicated for months. She passed a lie detector test and like, I guess no one saw that it was her doing the stabbing. I don't know why they weren't like, who drives the pinto? You know, like, Oh, it's Bernadette. She killed her. I don't know that I, I don't know, but they made a movie called death of a cheerleader starting Tory spelling

as Kirsten who gets stabbed. And there's lore that Heather's is based on the high school I went to, which is why I was gone when I went there. Cause I was like, I'm not having any part of this, you guys. Nobody wants to be friends with me anyway. Anyway, sorry, murder. Oh, that's such a big blade. Oh, don't join shorty. They're full of bad people. Okay. Wow. Holy mackerel. She really hit it out of the park on that one. That's a good story. Cheerleader stabbing each other. Yeah. I can't believe she's out. She got out. Why do people get out of prison? Well, cause they were start young and then it's like insanity, maybe. Fuck man. It'd be good to know about that one. Yeah. Cause that's a, that gives you a lot of

hope. Definitely changed your name. I'm really fascinated with like child murderers. Like there's this Mary bell. There's those two boys in England who took that kidnap that little kid out of them all. Yeah. So they all got out by the time they were, you know, not even a, they got out of 18 or whatever the fuck, changed her name and left. And I just want to talk to them so that well, because if you're a child murder or something hideous is happening to you, you, that's the fascinating thing about the Mary bell case. Her mother was selling her to men when she was a child. I mean, they're the rage that was in her. It doesn't come from nowhere. It's not just like, Oh, I'm, I, it was impulsive or whatever. This is someone acting out and it's

like a weird cry for help. Totally. There's a really good, like a British made for TV movie about Mary bell. Really? Yeah. That kind of goes into that fucking vintage murders, man. Come on. They're so interesting because you take it on face value and it's just like, Oh, that's crazy. Like a six year old that murdered a little boy. Yeah. But that's not, yeah. There's more to it. Always. Fuck. What was the, I'm sorry. I have a message from Ally Ward. Oh, hold on. Ally Ward called Dustin. She forgot to mention that the murderers sister said she kept an 18 inch knife in her pinto to slice vegetables while she drove. As one does, you know what? I smell a rat. I smell. Listen, man, if I know one of my

siblings are guilty of murder, I'm going to fucking tell on you. Yeah. You know why? Because the siblings of the murdered person matter more. I'm also, you know, as a creative person, I would take pride in the lie that I'm telling and slicing vegetables while I drive is a poor, it's a poor lie. I mean, we, and we all know you, all you do is use a fucking exacto knife. What are those blades called that are? Yeah, like a box cutter. Yeah. Right. When you cut your vegetables in the car while you're driving, she's a fucking box cutter or just some kitchen scissors. Yeah. Chop up. Yeah. Nothing about that even makes sense. It's what are you? Let's get her on the podcast. What are we? What the fuck were you thinking? Like let's piss her off on the podcast and see

what happens. Also, think of an 18 inch blade is six inches longer than a 12 inch blade. Yeah. It's more, it's like a kitchen knife. Two feet long. A kitchen knife is like a 12 inch. Yeah. So that's even like think of a kitchen knife. Now think of an extra blade on top of it, double blade. We're going into Katana Sword area. Yeah. With the length of this knife. Let's put the knife show on. Let's see. Cutlery corner going. Cutlery corner is the best. If you don't watch, if you don't get high and watch the knife show, I don't smoke pot. I'm not condoning it. Something is wrong with you. Sometimes it's on perfectly like right after our comedy shows over. That's what happened when I was in San Francisco. We came back and it was like two 15 and I couldn't go to sleep.

And then I was like, well, look who's here. All the assorted knives. That's the one. Should we wrap it up? Wrap it up. Yeah. Go to Facebook page. Facebook page. Go to any Facebook page. Anyone. And talk about us. And visit people and just live your life. Yeah. Digitally. Yeah. Don't leave your house. You're going to get murdered if you leave your house. And definitely talk about us on Facebook page. Yeah. Talk about us on Facebook page and tell everyone on Reddit to listen. I feel like Reddit people would like this podcast a lot, but I'm not on Reddit. I thought it might be frustrating to some Reddit types who like facts and like a fluidly chronologically told story. Please. Again, go watch the documentary. This is not what we're

here for. We're like, we like, we're like a puree. We're like a Jamba juice of facts. Yeah. Yeah. That we're like, um, we were like, uh, what are those two guys in, uh, in Vegas who play with tigers? Yep. Were those guys like, we're not going to find out the history of tigers and like what they're, you know, what they're about. You're going to see the best part of the tiger and our tans and our tans. Yeah. Yeah. Our teeth, our tans and the best part of the tiger. And hopefully we don't get molded by our tiger, which is the murders that that's, can I just say this and then we'll stop the day that there was the story in the paper of how the, um, it was either Siegfried or Rory. I can't remember which one got attacked, but the day that was in the paper

about him being mauled by the tiger was the same day that they caught the green river killer. And I remember going from, I was reading the LA times and it went from like one small story, turn the page, the other small story where I was like, both of these stories are the hugest thing to happen in the last 20 years. And they're both like four column, like tiny, tiny stories. People don't know what's important anymore. No, they really don't, you know, it's like our media man is like telling us how to live. Yeah. Well, that's a good, I like that. It's a little tie, a little bow tie on the tied it up. Good job. Listen to us on other stuff and go to us on other places. We have other things. We live other lives sometimes. Um, but we're slowly

building so that this takes over everything. Yeah. Make sure this takes over everything for your life too. Yeah. Get obsessed with this. Yep. There you go. We're Karen and Georgia. Thanks for listening. Thanks.