My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 201 - Live at Revolution Hall in Portland (2017)

Episode Date: December 19, 2019

Karen and Georgia cover William Scott Smith and the murders at Crater Lake.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hi Portland, Oregon, how are you? This is, wow. I mean, this is quite something. Thanks for coming to the second show. We're gonna try to get you guys in bed at your bedtime. Yeah, we're gonna get you out of here so quick, it's gonna be like sucking in and out. You will never know what happened. Zip, zap, zop.

That was the first boo we've ever gotten. It is not. That is absolutely not the truth whatsoever. That's propaganda that George is trying to spread. No one ever hates us. Oh my god, no one ever disagrees with every single fucking thing that we say. Quite fairly. Here we are.

Yes, here we are in this high school auditorium. We're about to give you a presentation about abstaining from premarital sex. Let's run the video. Let's go to the, it's just porn. Look how gross that looks. I mean, two plumbers? Oh, so there was a state sale today, that's some murder in Ocentus, which I'm obsessed with the state sales. And it was like a retired detective's whole house being sold.

Imagine what was in that house. I would have flipped through every book, you know what I mean? And then there was one time I went to a state sale and the guy somehow told me like right before I got there. He was like, yeah, I just sold. It was a cops house and I just sold his like 50 years of crime scene photos to someone. I know when I was like, I died inside. You're like, those are my crime scene photos. Yeah.

I was supposed to have them. Right. And so it's when I went to the power books today. Yay. And I am. You can't pre-aid. I can't do that. They're gonna, yeah, you can't pre-aid.

You have to let them do it. And I was like, okay, yeah, let's move on. And they have a vintage crime scene photo book and it's fucking disgusting. So I totally bought it. Nice. And I have been thinks I'm like creep and horrible. And I was like, do you want to see this? And he was like, no.

And I was like, I was gonna say elephant titers of the nuts. It really was. But he didn't want to see it. Weird, right? What crime did the elephant titers of the nuts guy have? I mean. What's he involved in? Nothing.

That was like, we need something lighter. We know it's like heavy for you. You saw a bunch of knives in people's gums. So to change pace. Elephant titers of the nuts in gums. That's a good like, that's a really good descriptive. You know why I thought of how horrible that is. I've been eating a lot of hotel mini bar food lately.

In this weird, like I don't want to have to leave it so cold and wet outside or whatever. And I bit into a kettle chip today that I think went up into my frontal lobe. I'm pretty sure. Not positive. Oh, that. Yeah. That's a good visual because everyone understands what that feels like. It's an interstabbing.

Yeah. It's not cool. Or like a paper cut there. But gum. It's a periodontal paper cut. Thank you. Yes. There's more.

There's four more hours of this. Just light, dental riffing. Didn't you know that's what this tour is about? Glossing. You got a good shoe on. Do you want to take a quick walk? Oh. Thank you.

Yeah. It's the second time I've ever worn them. Whoops. See. I wore them to my wedding and they still have the glitter on them. Are those your wedding shoes? Oh. Oh, it's gone.

They still have a wedding glitter on the back. They did. And I guess they're gone now. So that's sad. They're from. So cute. I can't say where they're from. They're very good.

Also, George and I totally unplanned, although it absolutely looks like it, both are wearing scallop-necked dresses tonight. Not planned. And when George, so I was in the car, Max picked us up to come here tonight. I got picked up first, we went to pick up George and Vince, and when she walked out and I saw her dress, I wasn't wearing mine yet. I was like, she got in the car. I was like, oh my God.

I almost started crying. Yes. I was like, oh my God. It was very scary. It was intense. I thought you were going to be like, you missed the show. Oh my God. You completely missed the show.

The show was at 4.30. But instead, I was like, we have the same dress. I was fucking freaking out. I was so happy. She handed me a small cup, which was her lovely friendship gift of bringing me a cappuccino everywhere I go. I don't have to ask anymore. It's the greatest.

Because once you texted me, I was like, I'm at the coffee place. Do you want anything? And you wrote always and then gave me your order. So now and ever, I'm at a coffee place and I need to order. I don't want to keep asking you that. So I searched the phone for whatever, tall, whatever the fuck word is. You go back to April. I'll happily reorder every single time.

I'm the kind of person that I can drink coffee at like 10 o'clock at night. And I want to. No, no, no. Because I can't do speed anymore. Anyway. It's the poor man's, poor man's speed. She hands me this cup. I immediately start drinking it.

Don't even ask what it is. Drink it, drink it, drink it. Get here. When we went to walk out for our first show, it was as if I had done 17 rails of coke. It was out of my mind. And then I was like, what's that from Stumptown? Because those people, I don't know what they're doing, but they're doing something to that coffee.

Good. Good. It didn't work on me. I had to just fucking chug a sugar free Red Bull backstage and like time it so that when I stepped out here, I wasn't like, I wasn't wired like halfway through. I'm not going to like start fucking nodding off. Or like as you walk out, you're just belching as loud as you possibly. And I'm like, just flying.

So yeah. One time. Caffeine's good. One time. Sorry, but it just reminded me of one time at Ear Wolf Studios, which is another podcast, not more. But they have cold brew on tap at that place. And so I'd never had cold brew before.

So I took my existing venti size cup. I went ahead and filled it with some cold brew. Oh, let me finish. Sifted throughout the podcast, whatever it was I was doing. And then on my drive home burst into tears for no reason. Just fucking sobbing. And I was like, what? Why am I sad?

What's happening to my feelings? It was so fucking weird. It's not the best when you realize it's not because you're a monster. You're like coffee. Yes. Okay. Yay. Or like PMS.

Okay. That's why. Is this a big breakdown? Nope. Cold brew. Oh my God. That's insane. Or I don't know.

Whatever else. Numbers. Don't worry about it. This much cold brew. You should only have this much. And you smoke like four cigarettes. But I had this much. And then I was like, I can see the sun.

And then smoked a pack of cigarettes. Oh, the hotel I'm staying at that I hate that's like fucking kitschy as shit with no function whatsoever. No big deal. It's fucking precious. And there's like no hooks for the towels. And like, I don't know what the fuck it's like. Style. Style over substance.

It's so stylish. Like they, oh God. I hate them. They don't have, they have like, they hand you like real keys. Like snow. No. And then like, they, oh my God. Is it like an old fashioned skeleton key?

No. It's pretty. It's close. It's close enough. And like a little, a candle on a little candle holder. Good night. Exactly. Yes.

Yeah. They, I was at the bar restaurant, which is thankfully not fucking kitschy. And the bartender last night is like, Hey, this drinks on me. Can you just go say hi to the hostess on your way out? She loves you, but she's too scared to talk to you. Oh, I know. And you said no, right? No.

She was like, absolutely not. I'll pay for this. I'm not here to do your bidding. And you think I'm broke? I can't afford my fucking house wine. I can order as much house wine as I want and say hi to no one. All shit-faced. Yeah.

It's fucking you. Hostess. I did, but it was like. Oh, nice. Good, good, good. Yeah. I kind of get, hi. You know, and then ran away.

Also, like in that setup, then you, it's like you have to initiate where it's just like, hi friend. I know you want to talk to me. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I heard you and not with me. And she's like, Oh no, the other hostess is off shift at seven. I actually think what you're doing is just like, Hey, I heard you and not with me.

And she's like, Oh no, the other hostess is off shift at seven. I actually think what you're doing is wrong. I'm one of those people. I kind of, that kind of happened to me the other day where I incorrectly thought someone knew who I was. And then she just said, Oh no, you look like someone who was in here earlier. Oh, and you're, you just finished signing whatever it was in front of you. So you don't want this.

Okay. No, you don't. Okay. I'm going to go. All right. Well then get murdered. No. Never.

Never. That's wrong. Oh, Stephen's here. Oh, Stephen's here. Yes. Hi. Hi. Stephen, come up here.

Come here. You want me to? Okay. You want to show you guys something. Stephen, Stephen. So don't use the stairs. Look at Stephen. Look at it.

Look at the mustache. This is the mustache we've been talking about for so long. Hi. Here. Take center stage. Really drink it in. We got a huge. Yeah.

Hi. Oh, God. I'm so used to being in the back. What's that? I'm so used to being in the back. I know. Well, your baby, you need to grab that limelight because it's your time to shine. Oh, thank you.

So. It's uncanny. It's uncanny. Vuneer Donuts made a donut of Stephen. He already knew. Like, I don't know why I'm presenting it to him. I look really excited. I'm just like, yay, I'm a donut.

Donuts. I just realized there's jelly inside of it. It looks like Stephen has been bisected like the black doll. Yeah. Oh, God. Ooh. I don't know if I should. Should I eat myself?

Yeah. Yeah. Let's have him eat the whole thing right now. Right. Do it. Do it. Do it. Oh, God.

We don't pay him enough. He's like, fuck you. I forgot that I have a microphone in my hand in one day. Oh, God. Oh, God. We don't pay him enough. He's like, fuck you. I forgot that I have a microphone in my hand in one do it.

We'll start a full do it chant. That's probably the most addictive chant of all time is do it. And then Elvis is here. No, he's not. What if I was to. What's up, buddy? You walked all the way up here? No.

No, I miss him more. Stephen, what tonight, what are you going to be handling during the show? Oh, wait. Am I supposed to spoil the stuff? Well, I guess. The audio. People know. People know.

Don't describe the pictures or anything. You can talk about it. Oh, yeah, yeah. The audio recording the show. Right. Yes. Stephen. Yes.

You like audio? Justifying you being here. Go ahead. Recording the audio helping out with. I'm sorry. I'm kidding. I'm so glad you're here. Thank you.

Write a list of everything that you've done today. Yes. Okay. Yeah. What she said. Yeah. Don't listen to what they say. No.

It's rule number one. Yeah. Audio and. Visuals. That's right. Yeah. It'll be exciting. There is a reason you guys came here and didn't just listen on your podcast.

You're a walkman. On your ear. Earcast. Yeah. Podcast. Podcast. Yeah. Stephen, do you want to snack on this in your sound?

Yeah. Take your half body away. Good. You can actually give it to someone to eat you. Give it to someone. If anybody wants to eat Stephen, put your hand up. Okay. But it's extra gluten.

No thank you. Stephen. Ramon. Yes. Oh honey. Okay. He'll be okay. He's good.

That's who, when we record the podcast in George's apartment, we sit on the couch and Stephen, that's who we're looking at, sitting cross-legged across from us like this. I'll take. Taking notes. And you know you said something really funny when he takes his pencil and is like. And sometimes he just rubs the side of his mustache like the most evil villain of all time. Like an evil millennial.

I mean oxymoron. No. They're pretty good people. They're all right. Is that right? The right word? Yeah. What else?

I'm just going to. There's also a couple other things. Oh, I was going to tell, this is the story I told the first show, but when I arrived in Portland, I got to, I had to get my car. And when I got over to the area of the hired car area, island two, Sierra for island two. There was like a, there was a bunch of cars. Everybody was waiting. So there's a bunch of cars waiting.

And as I walk up, the guy gets out of his car and goes, Karen, Karen. And I was, I immediately got into the car that was first. I was just like, I'm not fucking riding with the guy. You try to steal a fucking Uber. I tried to steal the person that you don't want to see an Uber driver out of the car. No, no, no, no, no. That doesn't, that's unnatural. And it's, it's not, it means that he doesn't know what he's supposed to be doing on top

of the fact that he screamed my name like I was lost in a grocery store and six years old. Oh, we never tell you this. Tell me. Go ahead. When I was little and right as my mom and I would walk into a grocery store, because I was such a lunatic that until I was probably 12 and had to ask her to stop as we walk into the grocery store.

Every time she'd go like this. So you're me and I'm my mom. She'd go, let's see what we're going to get today and grab me by the neck and then steer me around the store just so you know where I'm coming from doing that to you whenever we're anywhere. It might not work out. No. I might get a black eye.

It might go badly. My mom, when she picked me up, she would like, it's like she wanted me to fucking be embarrassed all the time and like get, you know, be funny because I hated everything and got made fun of so much. So, well, that was weird. No, you got to say it. You got to say it. Whenever she'd pick you up anywhere, like in front of the school with all the cool kids

watching and like you see her and you make eye contact, she'd still go, beep, beep, beep. It was so embarrassing. What a dick. Like she knew what she was doing. You kind of did have a dick, mom. And I now one-up you with my father who was dedicated to humiliating me everywhere I went. One time we pulled into a, this like vacation place we used to go to in Calistoga. It was like just cabins in the hills or whatever in the mountains.

We pulled in one time and there was like a bunch of kids just playing in like the play area. And as we drove by, my dad goes, hey kids, will you be friends with Karen and Laura? We were just like, oh, no. Oh yeah. Oh. There was one time where he'd used to drive this old white truck and he drove carpool so he drove like, felt like 19 kids in the front cab of a truck, throw some in the back.

Right as we pulled into school, because it was like from the 70s, the horn on the trucks just got stuck. So we pulled into school, born a blazing, as if to say like, we're here, everybody. Look at that. And my sister, who was super shy anyway, was like practically crying to you, like, dad, turn it off. And he was laughing so hard, he's like, honey, I can't turn it off. You just got to go to school.

Parents, it's like, you know they hate you so much. Yeah, they hate your guts. You've ruined their life for so long. This is not what they were expecting. It's so delicious that they get, they're just like, oh, I get to do back to you, like, what you've been doing to me for 12 years. Right. I kind of forget my, like, come on, you're embarrassing me.

And she'd always go, what, I'm having fun. Or you're drunk, mom. I'm not drunk. I'm happy. Mom, great. Way to go. Did your best. Late show.

Late show. Everybody, we're going to get it. It's on the table. Red Bull. We're saying it all tonight. Shall we sit? Let's sit down. I made a terrible mistake of looking on Twitter in between shows.

No. And I shouldn't wear a dress that bisects me. Oh, fuck dude. Seriously. No, let me just say it's my show. Wait, what? My mom was right about one thing, that I need to sit up straight. Yeah.

Like, yeah, I looked at it too. It's either that or we should. Why can't I just relax and be who I am? Am I pretty now, mom? I'm already wearing high heels. Am I pretty enough? I mean, you're lucky you can't see my fucking Spanx right now, which I still haven't bought new ones.

These are Spanx tights by the by. That's a thing. Not to give them. I like these because don't they look like they're ripped? But they're not ripped. They're designed to be ripped. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, HelloFresh has you covered.

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slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Aresha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston.

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Okay. You guys missed the whole thing. I forgot a tissue. Oh, do you need to run offstage? There. Okay. Suck the bag in. Georgia's having some Portland allergies, everybody.

Okay, Oregon, you guys have a lot of fucking murders, so thank you. It's the only way. It's like the only city we could do three shows in because there's just so many to choose from. Well, and also, can I just say this before we start? You guys have been so fucking fired up about this show from day one. Thank you. The podcast.

Not just the show. Yeah. Yeah. It's real. It's a podcast show. Yeah. Also, the reason I know this for a fact is the very first piece of stay sexy, don't get murdered graffiti graffiti that was ever posted to our Twitter account was from Portland,

Oregon. Yeah. You guys love that vandalism. Never forget it. I will never forget it because that's it kind of gave me that feeling like, uh-oh, this might be something. Yeah. Like, oh, wait, they wrote it on the wall in the bathroom for the first time I saw one

in person in the wild yesterday. Oh, yeah. We went to dinner and I went to the bathroom and I'm peeing and I look and I fucking went, oh my God, which I'm sure the girl online was like, what the hell? It's a stay sexy murder at the Huber's bathroom. Oh my God. Someone else loves Turkey as much as we do at Huber's. That was really awesome.

Thank you, Portland. Thank you. All right. Oregon. On February 19th, 1984, 21 year old Rebecca Darling, which is like the best name, was working the graveyard shift at an all night convenience store. I know it. A customer reported seeing her working around 3.20 am, but 30 minutes later another shopper

came in and she's gone. About a month later, Rebecca's body is found concealed in some brush along Little Pudding River. Is that right? They just found it. There's a river made of pudding here. That's what we've always wanted. That's what we've always wanted.

As long as it's not tapioca. Yeah. As long as it's Splatter Sky to get super specific. Jell-O or Pudding River, which would you rather have, Ian? Jell-O or Pudding River, my choices? Yeah. Could I... I can't...

Rice pudding can't be a choice. Sure. You don't decide. I'm going to wipe my nose on the fuck. Everything is your Kleenex. The world is your Kleenex, Georgia. You've made it. Oh my God.

That's so sweet. That's so not rock and roll. I just blew my nose. The last bit of shame she had was gone that night. Gone away that day. You'd think it would be gone when you gave the girl your autograph who didn't ask for it. But no.

No. Turns out... No. No. No. There was none left. No, no, no, no. Pudding River.

Back to the pudding. Let me... It gets bummed out now. Yeah. Long little pudding river, six miles from town, Rebecca's body is found. She's nude from the waist up and she's been strangled with a piece of rope, hands bound behind her back. A few weeks after she's found, on April 7th, 1984, police find an abandoned car and trace

it back to 18-year-old co-ed, Catherine Redmond, who's been... who was last seen at a campus frat party around 2.15 in the morning. Already bad news. Yeah. So, Catherine's nude body is found just four miles from where Rebecca's body had been found. The cause of her death is traumatic asphyxiation, which is like, isn't it always traumatic? Not if you choke on a Cheez-It. Oh, that's good.

I mean, it just came to me fast. It was a resin. That's... That's me. That's who I am. Or wait, what was the thing that you got stuck in your teeth from the hotel? Not if you stroke on a... Oh, a kettle chip.

Kettle chip. It fucking jammed right into my gums. That's traumatic. That hurt me. And she had been sexually assaulted. There's no way to add that. No, I mean, there's no good way to add that sentence. Witnesses say that they saw a late 1960s Pontiac station wagon in the area where Redmond's abandoned

car had been found around the time she disappeared. And another Salem resident comes forward and reports that her car had been bumped by a similar car a few days earlier and that the hulking driver had invited her to leave her car and come check on the damage, which we all know, but they didn't know in the 80s, don't fucking do that. So, sorry. You're saying like at an intersection or something, someone bumps her behind and then the humongous man, I'm assuming, that was inside was like, oh, you should see this dent

in your bumper. Yeah. We're on this quiet road. Yeah. Come check this. She was like, well... No, I'm going to speed away. Well, she did say, no, let's go to this gas station down the road.

And he was like, forget it and took off, which is like clear sign that he's on the level. Imagine how scary that is where you're like instinctual, however, whatever reason made her do that. She does it and immediately is proven that that guy was a fucking psycho. She made the best decision ever. Yeah. So she's like, this thing just happened to me with a similar car. This guy was huge in a creep and then he took off.

So police discovered that a man had called a tow truck company to rescue him from a ditch on April 7th, the night that Catherine disappeared. And it's near the place where her car had been found and his car fits the profile and he had been previously convicted of sexual assault. So let's talk about this dick. William Scott Smith is born in 1960. He's six, three and 300 pounds. Not when he's born, but he's spent his first six years in the circus and he had been convicted

of charges of menacing when he was 18 in Silverton, Oregon. Oh, wait, they just don't like Silverton at all, all right, noted, I guess our tour there tomorrow is canceled, then in 1979, he and another man were accused of secondary sexual assault on a woman. But Smith was acquitted of the charge, but his accomplice goes to jail. Then he gets convicted of indecent exposure in 81 in Boise, Idaho. Then a year later, Boise, but not Silverton, I mean, they're fickle, they're fickle. Then a year later, he's questioned, from Boise, an unsolved murder of a 14-year-old girl

named Lisa Chambers, but I looked it up and someone else got convicted of it, so it wasn't him. Things were getting hot in Idaho, all right, so he goes back to Salem. He feels more at home there. April 26, 1984, after the evidence against him is crazy, he's arraigned on two counts of first-degree murder in Salem. The police saw no links between him and five other unsolved homicides that had plagued Salem since 81, which is like, get the fuck out of Salem, man.

That's a lot. He waives his right to a jury trial, it's convicted on all counts, and given two consecutive life terms, although he only has to complete a minimum of 40 years before he's considered for parole. Then in 2007, a cold case is reopened. On July 4, 1982, in Salem, while delivering pizzas, 18-year-old Sherry Adderly vanishes after going on a call to a fake address to deliver pizzas. I know.

That sounded sarcastic, huh? I know. What year was this? This is 84. That hair is so 1984, it is. You just pull one comb through the top of that and you are off to school. Maybe a little bit, Aquanet, Aquanet, you're out the door. Spritz on some sweet honesty and you're on your fucking way.

That's right. That's right, girl. The bottle's all dusty. Your dusty old sweet honesty bottle. Dust it on, dusty. So Sherry vanishes and they later trace the fake call to the fake address to a Salem motel. Her car is found with the engine running near the address of the order less than an hour after she left.

So, like, car. Sitting there with the engine running. And three pizzas on the ground near her car. That must be bad. Her body is never found and the case goes cold for 25 years, aside from, I thought this was fucking horrible, a psychic naming a suspect that investigators, investigators already had on their list named Daryl and he was an acquaintance of Sherry and he claims that his vision showed Daryl's house and the detective interviewed him while the psychic was in the

car, which seems not up to code. And that same day, Daryl kills himself. Oh, shit. Which everyone's like, that's an indication of guilt. And he also had painted his truck a different color a month after she disappeared and he drove a similar truck that people said was in the area. But guess what? I don't know about him.

In a cold case for examination, they confront William Scott Smith in prison and he confesses and enters a guilty plea, Jesus. I know. Can you fucking deal with this fucking face? The beard is distracting, too, because it's like Balden beard is a strange combination. Or not, no offense, I mean, I don't mean it that way, but it's just like, has a lot to look at. I'm like, is this picture upside down?

What am I looking at? I'm trying to focus. What are we looking at? Okay. So that's him, dude. Okay. So he enters a guilty plea and they say he has an accomplice named Roger Nosif. I can't find anything about him online, which is crazy.

And he says that they were planning to abduct a different female delivery driver, hold her for ransom, but it really came instead and says, and one of the facts that never came out publicly is the next day after the abduction, there was a ransom call to the pizza place. What fucking janky shit is that? You ransom rich people, not fucking dominoes. It's literally dominoes. Is it really? Yes.

Yes. This is psychic now, motherfuckers. I didn't see this. That was amazing. It's pretty popular pizza place though. Yeah, but they killed her anyways. He says that they dumped her body near the Pudding River, but they searched the area. Nothing turned up, but it was 25 years later and there had been a bunch of flooding and

her body's never been found. A third life sentence is added to the two he already has, but some people say, oh, some people don't think he actually committed it and he just said he did so he could get better privileges in prison. Sorry, is that the way it works? I think sometimes. And also, what are better privileges? Fucking top ramen instead of fucking safe ways, Roman.

Instead of toilet wine, you get to sink wine, drink a... I mean, I've never been in prison, so I wouldn't know. I have. It's hilarious. Laugh riot? What do you call it? Oh, that'd be funny if there was a laugh riot instead of a riot riot in prison. That'd be funny.

I mean, we've got to shoot that for YouTube. We've got Red Bull kicking in right about now. I can see the sun. Okay. So then in 2012, while serving his time, another cold case is reopened. February 12, 1981, 20-year-old Terry Cox Monroe is out dancing with friends at the Oregon Museum Tavern where we're having an after party. I know.

Top feather. Yeah. Is that a different... What's the difference there? That's 81. So earlier when... In the late 70s, it was full feather. My cousins, Lisa and Cheryl, had these huge feathers.

The feather just went all the way to the back of your head. It was super intense. And then a little bit later on, it was just feather those bangs. So she goes outside to get some fresh air. Don't ever do that. Don't get fresh air. But this is when they smoked indoors, too, so it's probably fucking disgusting in there. That's true.

Oh, my God. And they gave out asbestos all the time. It's free asbestos everywhere. Can I get an asbestos and sodas? Two asbestos and then a Virginia slim. No, that was good. She doesn't show up for work the next day and her parents report her missing and her clothes and identification were found near the Williamette River, which is behind the...

No, you're wrong. No. Oh, now I know how to pronounce it. I know. I mean, the word William, I get it. I see it now. I see it now. Well, Williamette.

Just go past it. No. Why would you say it again? And don't ever say what. Are you high? Jesus Christ. Four more times. Is the coffee working for you?

No, I need it, actually. What if someone threw a coffee cup on stage and I'm like, just a coffee. But it lands perfectly like one of those YouTube videos or the thing. So Trace of her body is found until March 15th, 1981, about a mile down the river. And an autopsy concludes that she died of homicidal asphyxiation, which is like they just want to call it something other than asphyxiation. They love to specify. No suspects arrested.

The case goes cold. And then they reopen the case on January 2012 and Detective Jim Miller notices that Monroe was murdered the same way as Smith's other three victims. He uses his signature method of operation. He briefly stalks his victim before kidnapping, beating, raping, and strangling them to death with a piece of rope, a piece of clothing, or some other device. So after killing them, he places his victims in a body of water usually at river stream. So he had done that, too.

So William Scott Smith, 53 now, he's guilty to her murder saying that he strangled Monroe outside the tavern. He's sentenced to life in prison, which will be his fourth life sentence. He's still fucking in prison. And the man that police suspect to be his accomplice, Roger Nocev, died in 2004. And they think he killed a lot more people. So it was this beard guy? Yeah.

Oh, good. Okay. It was all him. Well, that's good. And he's in jail. Oh, yeah. Stephen. Stephen, do you think you could grow a beard like that?

When I lived in New Zealand, I didn't shave for seven months. And did it look like that? Yeah, it was all neck beard. It was bad. Oh. Never again. What? Never again.

No. It's required for the job now. No. Too late. Too late. It's a requirement. Yeah. It's going into the contract.

The contract's like on a napkin and cray on. Yeah. Stephen has to. And George has blown her nose on four times. I'm trying not to be wasteful. All right. Should we move on to mine? Do it.

Let's get rid of that guy. Permanently. Yeah. Yes, great job. Oh, thank you. Great job. What are you going to do? I don't know.

Tell me. Well, I started when I was looking into this because we actually have done so many Portland, either murders or murderers. There have been a ton, obviously. Yep. You guys love it. Yep. Your murder cup runneth over people feel free to stab and maim up here.

Yep. So I started looking into it just to just twist it around and make it a little bit interesting. I just looked into if there were ever any murders at Crater Lake. Oh, you don't know what Crater Lake is? Okay. I'll tell you. It's right behind you. Oh, this is my lake, Crater Lake.

Oh. Oh my God. It's creepy. I'm going to send you that postcard later. That's some straight up fucking prehistoric like bullshit. Yeah, girl, it is like moon rocks flew into the, is it true? Yes. Oh, yeah.

Do you want to know? Yeah, always. Crater Lake. This is Crater, I guess the mix. Oh, yeah. You did kind of, that was a context clue that you put together for yourself. Crater Lake located in Klamath County within the cascade range is over almost 20 miles wide and almost 2000 feet deep, which makes it the deepest lake in America.

Yeah. You did it. And you did it. You did it. Thank you. At one point it was rumored to be bottomless, but that's not a thing. It's not true. And we all know how hurtful rumors can be.

You do have a big, beautiful bottom Crater Lake. You look good in it. It is a caldera lake. It sits atop Dormant Volcano Mount Mazama, which last erupted in 50, 500, 50, 5700 BC. It is the clearest, cleanest, deepest body of water in the United States. It's filled with rainwater and it is so pristine and wavelengths of sunlight are able to penetrate so deep that the colors reflected back to our retinas are blues and purples of an unreal intensity.

Yeah. Yeah, baby. Ayahuasca. To the climate, it was a site too sacred for human eyes and they believed just looking at the lake was to risk death and lasting sorrow, which you think those would be flipped because once you're dead, the sorrow wouldn't really come into play. But that sounds like a big bummer. A minor named John Hillman in 1853 was the first white man to see that lake.

And just before he reached the crater's rim, he saw a snow white deer with pink eyes. Pink eye? With a very bad eye infection. Very bad and a little neosporin on both eyes so it looked kind of glossy and it looked like he was crying and it made John sad. Oh, wait. I lost my spot. Snow white deer with pink eyes and vampire fangs.

Really? No, I'm just, that part's not real. That's cool. Wouldn't that be amazing though? Yeah. Because you're like, oh my God, that's a bear. Attack deer. Just had a dead bunny and it's John's.

It has a dead other deer in its jaws. Oh, not white deer. Cannibal. It's a vampire cannibal deer. Oh my God. Can you focus please? There is a stump of a hemlock tree that floats in Crater Lake called the old man. Let's hear it for the old man.

Look at it. Okay. Look at it. Over 30 feet long. This hemlock stump floats perfectly upright and it is carbon dated to be over 435 years old. What the shit? This is the best book report I've ever given.

We are in a school. I know. I know. I'm feeling it. That's the old man. Oh, so there was a submarine team that was in the lake. They saw the old man. This was like sometime in the 60s and they tied it up to their stuff because they wanted

to look at it, to their equipment because they wanted to investigate it. And right when they tied it up, a huge storm kicked up on the lake. White caps started on the lake and it didn't end until they untied it and everything went right back down. So the old man controls the weather. Man. And white man is going to be like, let's see about this and take it apart because they need to know.

So I'm just like looking at it and I'm like, that's beautiful. Okay. Moving on. Yeah. Well, but it is very unusual that it floats straight up because any normal log floats like this. This goes like this. It's not a thing.

I'm doing this. Civics. I got to do this. Okay. All right. Also, several people have claimed to see Bigfoot near Crater Lake. Really? Yeah.

They've spotted him. Two park rangers said they saw him and then they smelled him and then he threw a pine cone at them. I had to say it again, but ayahuasca. That's a fucking fucked up drug. That was just a third park ranger. Actually there's some people claim that they accidentally hit Bigfoot with their car at Crater Lake, but before they could show anybody, a government team came in and swept the body

away. Yeah. But definitely happened. What I think is funny is that that is also the beginning scene of Harry and the Henderson. It's like if Harry and the Henderson were like a sad government movie, science fiction. That's true. Not a fun comedy. They have lake monsters, UFOs, mysterious campfires.

That's my favorite one. Mysterious campfire. If there's a campfire, then it's just a fire, a mysterious fire. Explain to me what you think campfires are. Am I wrong? Do I not know? I don't know. A campfire is a fire.

A camp. A camp. You do it and it's still there when you get there. Well, these ones aren't there. Oh, I get it. You walk up and there's nothing there. There's not just like a mysterious campfire. It's just like, there's a campfire.

No, there isn't. It's just an orange jacket on the ground. Crazy shit's happening up there is what we're saying. Crazy fucking shit. But mostly Crater Lake has a lot of death. And so I'm just going to read you a couple of my favorites. Search 24th, 1994, an Aeropostyle AS350 helicopter from Seattle heading to Las Vegas crashes and sinks between Wizard Island and the Lodge.

Don't you want to go to Wizard Island so fucking bad? What's on Wizard Island? Fucking wizards. Several dozen park visitors watched the helicopter as it skimmed over the smooth surface and then suddenly plunged into the water. The speculation is that the pilot became confused by the near perfect, near image of the sky that was in the surface of the lake and thought he was going up. Oh, no.

Yeah. Can you imagine that you're just a little fishing on the side of Crater Lake like doot-doot-doot. What a great vacation with my, oh my God. Oh, no. Straight to the bottom. Do we stay or do we go home? Is it rude? Is it disrespectful?

Do we like finish our vacation? Yeah. Everybody just look away. Yeah. Look away and don't look back. I took three days off work. Should I? I mean, we spent a lot of money.

Yeah. Like, you know, poured some beer out for those guys at that mysterious campfire that night. That night, 25 campfires lit along the, all right, July 27th, 1990, this one's fucked up. Uh-uh. We've been having a great time so far. That's going to stop right now. At 3, 20 p.m., Della Marie Zelinski of Meade, Washington falls 700 feet to her death at

discovery point. Oh. The only eyewitnesses were her three children, Jeremy, 16, uh-huh, John 7, and Brittany 5. Oh, no. And a former, oh, and a former, the way you look down, and a former ranger named Bruce Black who saw the fall from Wizard Island. Oh, we know Bruce Black's on Wizard Island. Okay.

I didn't put that together. So here's what happened. The family had walked out to a narrow, rocky, spine-like ridge to get a better view of Wizard Island because they were as fascinated as I am about Wizard Island. But here's the thing. The mother loses her footing and she's holding the five-year-old as she falls. She fucking throws the five-year-old to the teenager and then goes, oh, my, that's just horrifying.

It is not cool. Oh, no. But also kind of fucking amazing. And like, what an incredible, insane mother move. Yeah. I just like, when I read that, I was like, that's so fucking amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

Silver lining. Okay, on August 29th, 1984, patrol ranger Alice Sybecker, this one's fucking crazy, attempts to stop a slightly speeding 1982 Volvo on the south entrance road, but the driver refuses to stop, so Alice gives chase. And as her patrol car comes up from behind, the Volvo suddenly explodes, runs off the road, flies through the air, and hits an embankment. What in the fuck? Yes.

Boats. Yes. It just fucking explodes. No. So the driver was named Andres Merzegucas, and he was a German national, and he's, of course, instantly killed. His body remained in the wrecked car for four hours while the Jackson County Sheriff bomb squad and the FBI checked the car over for hidden explosives.

Wow. But it turned out the explosion was caused by a hand grenade that Merzegucas was holding at the time of the explosion, and they know this because his left hand and face were blown. Oh, dude. So as they search the car, they find a knife, a pistol, which are both stored in the driver's door and a rifle that's in the trunk. And they also find several sets of ID, all false, two California license plates. The Volvo had been stolen from a rental company in San Diego, and this man was wanted in Texas

for drug smuggling charges, and he had served time in federal prison. He planned to either use the grenade against Alice, the park ranger, and it accidentally dropped it, which is like, then it's all like snowy road, like, I gotta get up, shit. It's a Volvo. Everything's all Swedish and safe. Oh, God. This final line is kind of my, maybe one of my favorites ever. Alice then left the park service and returned to her former career of violin making.

Oh. Yeah. Oh. Sorry, Alice. I didn't realize you were the most fascinating person in the world. Yeah. I mean, she's back there in her violin shop, like, I've seen a lot of heavy shit, so just fucking, let me, let me pull this cat-gut across this wood.

Oh, my God, honey. Okay. November 27th, 1960, 19-year-old son of Ralph and Catherine Payton, who owned the Crater Lake Lodge, their son is found stabbed to death in his car in Forest Park. Larry Payton had been stabbed 23 times, and the interior of the car showed the evidence of a terrific struggle, the cop said, missing and presumed kidnapped or slain was Payton's girlfriend, Beverly Ann Allen, also 19 from Washington State. They had met the previous summer while they both worked at Crater Lake Lodge, and Miss

Allen had been visiting the Paytons during the Thanksgiving weekend. So they had Thanksgiving dinner with the parents, and then they had left for an evening drive to park. It was an evening drive, following dinner. So Beverly Ann Allen's body was discovered two months later, lying in roadside brush alongside a highway west of Portland, and this then said, the murders were eventually solved 10 or so years later, but not conclusively. So that means it's not solved.

The actual definition of... Who am I to criticize when I've just simply cut and pasted? Who did it? That sounds like a Zodiac killer type of thing, don't it? But he didn't take the victims with him, right? I don't think he would go places with the victims, but he did. He was one of those people that liked to have a man there. Oh, that's an interesting theory.

Early fucking Zodiac. Yeah, that's right. That's my... I'm just like randomly pulling that out of my ass. I like it, though. Okay, I'm gonna go with it. That's good. Okay, this one is the most famous.

You may have heard of it already. In July 1952, Albert Jones of Concord, California, and Charles Culhane of Detroit, Michigan, were executives with the United Motor Service, which is a subsidiary of General Motors, and they were found murdered on South Road 3.5 miles north of the South boundary. They had driven... They were there on vacation with their wives. They had gone in a car separate and driven ahead, agreeing to meet at their summer cabin at Union Creek.

When the wives came up upon the car, they found the car, which was a green 1951 Pontiac parked on the turnout overlooking Annie Creek Canyon. The right passenger side door was standing open, but they couldn't find their husbands, so they called the rangers. The men's bodies were found a short time later, a quarter mile off the road in an open stand of Ponderosa Pine. Both men were found with their shoes removed, powder burns on the side of their heads indicating an execution style murder.

They had been gagged with their own ties, but they were not bound, and their stockings were clean, which indicated that they didn't walk anywhere. They just took their shoes off and then were murdered there. In the excitement of the discovery of the bodies, tons of people walked all over the crime scene just during much of the evidence. Since the entrance rangers during these years recorded the license number of every car that entered the park, the FBI began a massive investigation, taking years to trace each tag number, and some people were even tracked to Europe.

Several local suspects were identified, but lacking hard evidence, no arrests were ever made. Even though $300 was taken from their wallets and their watches were taken, the men's luggage was left in the car, so they don't really think it was for robbery purposes. In a letter that he wrote to his daughter a month before he was murdered, Jones said to her, things are worse than they have ever been. She thinks his daughter believes, because at the time in working for GM, they were having trouble with the union, so her theory is that it was a mob hit murder for business reasons.

There's also some locals who had their own theory, but it made this go from six pages to 42 pages, just talking, and there were just conversations back and forth with the cops, and it was like, I don't know, and then it got this thing, so then we're just like, ah, and they listened to me, I told the FBI, but they never came back, there was a lot of that shit. You guys don't have accents like that, but the feel of the article was like an old guy standing outside of a gas station with a lot of theories, like jeans and jeans and theories. You know, I told them, I saw the guy, I told them, they didn't listen to me.

This one, I kind of love so much in the sickest way, and this is from July 4th, 1947. A park visitor named Mr. Cornelius suddenly stops hiking, calmly hands his wife, his wallet, sits down on a snowshoot near the old lake trail, and without a word, slives over the edge of the snow bank, and falls to the water's edge. He didn't die, he only broke his leg, so then he climbs into the lake and drowns himself. With everybody watching, his wife is just like, what the fuck? Why do I need your wallet, motherfucker?

Oh my God. His wife later claimed that he had been in some sort of days or trance during the incident. How fucking creepy. Creepy. Can you hold my water while I go over here? Well, I go for the... Well, I go fucking... Sledding, today?

So in that, I kind of like, I like the idea that, say it's the albino deer that came back and hypnotized him, and it was like, come over the edge with me, come over, Mr. Cornelius. Oh no. Hand your wife your wife, you won't need it, but we're going. Abigail, I must follow the vampire deer. Oh, it only broke your leg. Fucked up, you're gonna only broke his leg. Do.

The worst of all suicide situations. Yeah. All right. But the last one is from someone from here in Portland, Tara, who sent us this as a hometown murder. Ooh. Yeah. Love it.

Love it. Love it. Hi, Georgie and Karen. They all start like that. It's weird. They all know. I started listening to your awesome podcast this week, and I am absolutely sucked in no escape.

I wanted to tell you guys about my hometown murder, because it is now our own family mystery that I think is so creepy, and I just wanted to share it with you guys. So in the summer of 2016, my family went up to Crater Lake, Oregon, to our cabin for a few weeks. My brother brought along a friend of his, and they brought their motorbikes so they could go to the bluff, which is just a forest where a lot of tourists go hiking. So the first week we were there, my brother and his friend went to the bluff on their bikes and noticed a station wagon with Washington plates parked behind some trees with a sun

visor up, which I think she means one of the sunshades. I was confused when I first read it, and I was like, what? The car's wearing a visor? What's that? Is it one of the ones that says, if you can see this, I had call 911, number those from like this one. Oh yeah. Then you put it up, even though you're at Target, and you're like, oh shit, I didn't

realize it was on that side, nobody called 911. And everyone's like, am I supposed to call 911, or is that weird? I mean, I'll assume other people called 911, or is that a bad? People need 911 all that time when they were parked back in the 70s. Constant calling of 911. My brother thought nothing of it, thinking it was just some hikers. However, they went back the next week, and the car was still there. So my brother decided to go check it out and see what was up.

He got closer to the car, and noticed a massive swarm of flies around the car. Oh. No. They're out in nature. A silhouette of a person in the passenger seat and blood splatter on the windshield. Needless to say, my brother and his friend booked at the fuck out of there. He told my dad about the whole thing, and they called the county police and waited in the parking lot for the detectives to show up.

It took the detectives two fucking hours to finally show up, and when they finished asking them questions, my dad asked one of the detectives, so does this happen very often? And the detective just shrugged his shoulders and said, it's Klamov County. Oh, no. And he had Jean and Jean and theories. It was the same guy. It was the same guy with the theories. There's just one guy who lives there.

I don't know. I told him. Apparently, there had already been four other murder suicides that year alone. Holy fuck. There was never anything in the news about it or who the person was or how he died. So my mom and I like to conspire all the time, which I think she means theorize or sun visor. I mean, maybe they're conspiring to do it themselves. Anyway, thank you very much.

Tara B. So that's Crater Lake. Please be careful. Don't go to the edge and take pictures. You're not above science. I don't care what the white deer with the fangs and pink I tell you, don't listen to a magical deer. No. Hey, that was great.

Hey, good job. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Should we? Thank you. That's okay. We crave your applause.

Can we should we do a hometown? I think we should do a home town. Yeah. Yeah. You want to pick someone? Yeah. Can we do it? Can we have the lights up just a tiny bit?

Yeah, that's a thing you'd be able to do. Karen's good at this. I'm going to let her. I'm a psychic. So, right there. Yeah. Come on down. Oh, hi.

Oh, hi. Hi, I'm Elisa. What's your name? Ana Lisa. Ana Lisa. I'm going to hear. Look, you get your mic. Come here.

Center stage. Center stage. I know. It's super nerve wracking. It's really bright. I know, right? I can't say anything. Look, just stare straight into it and it kind of dulls out your retinas when you get used

to it. Okay. Hi. Where are you from? Salem. I grew up in Salem, but I live in Hooper River now. They hate Salem. I know.

Oh, okay. Got it. So what's here? Okay, so this is pretty crazy. It's it's in Santa Wilson Turner. If anyone's from Turner, they love Turner. It's pretty crazy. So I actually sent you guys an email about it. So if you read it later, just ignore it. We'll delete it. Just delete it. Never read it. Delete it. Yeah. So okay, so this is a crazy story and I know about it because my cousin found the body. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Cousin connection is a hot connection. Yep. Definitely. So my cousin was duck hunting with his friends like 16, I think. Fucking lucky. Yeah. So that he found a body or that he was duck hunting? Both. He's clearly very privileged in every way. Yes. So he's duck hunting with his friend

and they saw in the distance kind of by a creek, this jacket that's like camo jacket and they're like, oh, hey, someone with their jacket here went up to it. There was a rotting body inside. Always a possibility. Yeah. So they call the police, police came out and then all this stuff came out and the news later that the body was actually this fugitive who had like kidnapped girls and done all these terrible things. So this dude's name was Paul Winkleblack and he had a bad name, bad guy. Yeah. And he had done some terrible things like molested kids and had been in jail and had gotten out and violated his pearl. And so they were going to go arrest him and he disappeared. So he was on the lamb and

then this is crazy. He was in Portland. There was a Snoop Dogg concert. Yeah. Pretty insane. So there's a Snoop Dogg concert and these two girls are leaving. They've been drinking a little. They're underage. They get to their car and he comes up to them and says, I'm undercover police car. We're doing raids. You're going to get arrested for drunk driving unless I can drive you out of here. Okay, that's never true. The girls were like, but then by some stupid chance a police car drove by and he's like, those are my guys. And they're like, Oh, okay, okay. So they all get in. They're like, see, and they like wave at him. Oh, no. Bad happy accident. Wait, I'm, I don't know why, but I'm confused right now.

So they were, they were hesitant. They didn't want to do it. But then a police car happened to drive by at that moment. And the dude Paul Winkleblack was like, see, they're out, we're out patrolling. These are my guys. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was the opposite shit. Okay. Yeah. So they all get in and then he like kind of tricks them into giving him his phone. They're like, Hey, let's take photos. He's like, well, let me see your phone, blah, blah. So he gets the phones and then it becomes clear. This is a kidnapping. He brings out a giant knife and he like makes them take some pills and stuff. He's like really creepy. And so they're on the freeway. They're on i5. They're headed south. Sorry, I'm going to

stop you. This is the best story I've ever heard. I'm not kidding. This is the best. This is insane. Okay. That's a good ending. That's a good ending. Okay, good. So they're heading south and then at some point, like off of Turner, like they get on the freeway, the highway toward Detroit, he gets out and he's like going to start, he tries to pull one out. And so then the other one comes and starts fighting him. And then he starts focusing on her and then the other one wants to find him too. But her friend says, run, run, run. So she just starts booking it through a field. Yeah. And she sees a farmhouse in the distance. She gets to the farmhouse, screams, my friend's being attacked. They go back. The other friends

still there alive. Yes. They fought him off. And he's gone. He's gone. The car's gone. So they call the cops, but they don't find him. And they don't find him for five years until my cousin finds him. They don't know how he died. They just think he died of like exposure and drowning, but they don't know how. So it's kind of a mystery like if he tried it with someone else and something happened, or if he just where's he been for a year? I don't know. They thought he was like on America's most wanted and all this stuff. He was living in that forest. He was dead. He died. Well, they think he died that that. That's how old his body was. Yeah. They found the same outfit that he was wearing. Dude. Yeah. What if those

two girls went back and they're like, you should not have talked with us? I hope they were like, they're like, we swept, we slept off those pills and we fucking jammed out to Snoop Dogg. And now you're getting two to the dome. I have chills. That is crazy. Huh? The best. Oh my God. Thanks. Where is your, where's your cousin now? He's still at home. I think he's 18 now. So he's just hanging out at home in Salem. He's so surprised I was telling the story. What, uh, uh, uh, what did he, did he have like, I just want to hear about that sensation of actually finding a dead body. Is he like super bummed out? Did he have to go to therapy? He was super chill about it. He was just like, Oh yeah,

you know, it was cool, whatever. They like looked in the jacket. Yeah, he found his wallet. I think you're not allowed to touch it. I know. Wait, what's his name? Nathaniel. Uh, you can't get on the stage. That's not cool at all. Oh, that's my sister. She's part of it. She's not a weirdo. Okay. Get over there. Get over there. Jesus fucking Christ. Okay. But seriously, nobody else get on a stage. This thing was very upsetting. Well, there was a drunk girl. I thought it must have been her. Okay. You should have come the first time. That was awful. This is a murder show. You guys looked over behind my shoulder and looked and you had horror in your face. I was ready to fall. Also you're

you're wearing kind of an army jacket. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I apologize. Tell us. Okay. You might know more. So as I was saying this, I was dying cause I'm like, tell her this part. Tell her this part. Okay. This better be good. And then, and then this lovely lady said, just go up there. Mom. Okay. So this may be kind of a buildup. It may not be that it may not be that good. Only said to do the job of telling the story. No, the part that I love the most though is the way that when Nathaniel tells the story, the way he describes what you were saying, like, I know what it's like to find a dead body. He said, he walks over to it and he sees this coat and he's like, huh, what's the coat doing here? And

he picks it up and then he goes, Oh my gosh, there's an arm inside. And he's kind of like Nathaniel is a little morbid. He's a little morbid. He, um, what did he do for his high school internship? Like he texted me. Yes. Yes. He was like 16. I wish he were here. He's great. So yeah, he like said this over our Christmas, we have like this annual family Christmas dinner and over the Christmas dinner, he was describing what the body felt like, like the actual like description of like, it was, it wasn't like hard like you would think it was. It was, there's some give to it. So basically you stuck on stage because you had the information that was definitively asking for. Exactly. I'm sorry. I was rough

with you, but I mean, I was definitely scared. That's, that's what I look like when I'm scared. Karen, you, Karen, you, um, I trust you, you fucking took care of that. Thank you. I was, thank you. I was pretty sure I could take her. Um, I figured she was just shit-faced. Karen was raised by first responders so that we go toward the danger. Karen, I'm the girl who we were like run and I'm like, Oh, I'll go get help. Nathaniel. Wait, sorry. What was your name again? Rebecca, Rebecca, Rebecca, you should come visit us. Okay. Now you have to get off this day. Thank you guys. Rebecca, Annalisa and everybody. Oh my God, you nailed it. You nailed it. Annalisa nailed that hometown. Very well done.

Thank you guys. So awesome. Thank you so much. That was a real fucking roller coaster of emotions. This is why you pick the hometowns, man. You're always fucking. I got it. I got a sixth sense about them. I just have to say, we really, really love you guys. It really means the world to us. How much you guys have supported us from the beginning. It really, it's so awesome. We love you. We love you. We're the word. This is the city where we have three shows. You guys bought those tickets. So thank you so much. It was so much fun to be here with you tonight. Do me a favor. Stay sexy and don't get mad. Bye, you guys. Thank you.