My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 204 - Periodical Time Tables

Episode Date: January 9, 2020

Karen and Georgia cover The Butcher Baker Robert Hansen and the mysterious murder of Dorothy Jane Scott.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hello. Welcome to my favorite murder. We're back. We're back. Are you ready? Are you ready for 2020? Are you ready for Georgia Heart Star? Are you ready for Karen Kilgara? Pointing. Pointing. Pointing at each other? You can't hear it, but we're pointing at each other. It's the loudest pointing. Oh, dear. No, what was that? My arm just cracked. Oh, good. I reached my arm at to dramatically point. Oh, no. Do we have Boniva as a sponsor? I might need it. You're breaking.

You're breaking. I'm breaking all apart. It's 2020, the year of breaking. It's 2020, things are falling apart and so am I. Hey. Hey. Welcome back, Karen and everyone. Thank you. We're like a week away. Do you know this from it being four years since we started? Shit, really? Yeah. So like we're almost in our fifth year, essentially, which is like, is that right? No, we're in our fourth year. We're going into our fourth year. Going into the fourth year. Okay. That's so much. That's like a relationship. That's what? Oh, no. That means I have to break up before in year five. I'm sorry. Those are my personal rules. We get married or break up. Either we double down and adopt seven kids. Yeah. Or I get out of town. Let's do it.

Okay. Yeah. Let's get a big house. Okay. We kind of have in a way. Yeah, this is a huge house. And there's our child right over there. He's seven children in one. He's all the children. Okay. What do you have this week to talk about? Just a blank slate ready to be filled with the 2020-ness of impending doom, but also in extreme potential. Who knows what this year will bring? I feel like I haven't ever podcasted before right now for some reason. It feels fresh and new and clanky. And clanky and wild. Yeah. It feels like uncut jungle. Right. Well, let's talk about someone else's podcast then. Perfect. And how about Jensen and Hull's Murder Squad? Love it. And how they have... Is this going to be a spoiler alert? Oh, Stephen. No, I mean,

it's in the description for the episode. A listener uploaded her DNA and they used genealogical DNA to find the killer. Also, I believe Stephen and I were talking about this earlier because it's so exciting. When Billy and Paul first thought of Murder Squad, like that whole idea of really having a podcast that actively asked for the internet sleuths to come together and really start working and like, you know, focus thing. The fact that it's been a year basically, that's a very quick turnaround for something to actually happen for them. I mean, there's professionals involved, but it's just so exciting. It's a really lovely thing because it's like something's actually happening. Well, and what was great about the

end of the first season was they gave as many updates as they could on all the cases because that was like me even working on the show. I'm like wanting to hear updates. And some stuff they can't obviously because some of these cold cases are actually coming back and being active again. Amazing. So the fact that they, the last two episodes of the season, they actually updated a bunch of stuff and talked to Charles Manson's acid dealer, which was insane, was really cool. Wow. Murder Squad, it gives and it gives. It gives you. What do you want out of a true crime podcast? They have it. They have it. We're just here fucking talking shit and cracking our knuckles. That's right. That's what we do. Yeah. We're holding the couch down while those guys go and get

stuff done and we really appreciate it. Yeah. So listen to Murder Squad on Monday. Yeah. What would that be? January 7th, 11th, 13th. Perfect. And another thing about podcasting is this week. Oh, and then I'm going to say something about podcasts. Okay, great. Our episode of In Bed with Nick and Megan came out with Nick Offerman and Megan Mullally. It came out when we're, we literally recorded it in their bed with them. There's a lot of people in the bed. It's literally in bed. And for some reason, I was incredibly uncomfortable, not with them as people. I really adore them. And of course you. But for some reason, I couldn't take my foot off the ground. It was really odd. Like it was very, I know the whole concept was we all get in bed and

talk and in, you know, whatever. And I was, there's something about it. I was like, hmm, I want to participate uncomfortable as well. But mine is that I have a really big problem with daytime clothes in, or outside clothes in a bed. And so I'm sitting there in my jeans just, and I know they're going to change the sheets before they get in, but I just felt so disgusting. Like I was making their entire bedroom gross. And I have the thing of, I don't, I've lost the ability in my aging and all of my body issues kind of lost the ability to be super loose and goosey. To sit casually. No, there was, and also you have to think about it in a, if it's your bed and you can shove the pills around exactly how you want, that's one thing. But if you're the fourth person

in a bed, that's really someone else's bed. You can't put a pillow between your legs and be like, now I'm comfortable. Yeah, there was no way to be comfortable. But I don't think you hear that in our voices. No, I hold on. We're giving you behind the scenes right now. Because it was very fun and I love that podcast and the idea of it. Those guys are the best. They're the best. So listen to that. And then that's all I got. I think that's all I have too. I can't really think of we have merch and a fan cult. Go to myfavoritmurder.com. Check it out. It looks like a lot of people got each other fan cult memberships for the holidays. Love that. Which is very sweet. Oh yeah. And then we're going to have some big ideas for the stuff we post in that fan cult that

we give you that's exclusive. We're really working on making those things exciting. Did you watch the video? The bloopers end of the year? No, I can't watch it. I know it was really funny. There's one where you look like you have a joint and you're like you're lighting a joint because it's that smudge stick. Oh yeah. It looks like you're lighting a big fatty. Perfect. And I didn't correct anyone who said that you're doing that. I was like, let him think that. Be amazing. In the middle of shooting a fan cult video, I'm like, sorry, can I just spark up this J really quickly? I don't know if we did a joint rolling tutorial video. I can't do it. So maybe someone could teach us how to roll a joint. I could do it. I just feel like it's not our area. You know what

I mean? That's true. There are people who have been pot branded performers and content producers for years. We can't just step in. Well, Stephen did find my vape pen here in the office. That was the best. It was mine. So we kind of are. That was actually a hilarious day when we looked down at Stephen. Why weren't you here? Had you left already? Yeah. And Stephen looked down and goes, who's vape is that? And then I was like, oh, I don't know. It's not yours. I was like, no, why? It's not. And you thought I was being sarcastic. And I was like, it's actually mine. And I needed that because I need my CBD and just a touch of THC. Just a hint. Just a little. Oh, I saw cats. Oh, yeah. Speaking of all the things I've just been talking about. Someone had to

take it on for the team. Oh, my God. Well, the best part was I went with my friend Rob Trubosky, who's hilarious. Speaking of being really high, speaking of THC. Yeah, basically. And just like hallucinogenic kind of like surreal experiences. My friend Rob and I went, we went to the first showing at the Arclight. So it was like 1130 in the morning, because I was like, this will be hilarious. We had the entire theater to ourselves so we could just scream and talk at the screen. It was so funny. The feeling of getting to talk out loud in a movie theater is so freeing. Yeah. It's really wonderful to immediately get to loudly say the joke you're thinking. It's almost like being at home. It is. But not sitting in a disgusting seat. That's right. It's not disgusting

though. I really believe in the Arclight. I guess the Arclight's nice. Yeah, that's true. They basically take all that, like all those experiences, not to do a commercial for them, but they basically are like, what do you hate about those other movie theaters? Sticky floors, chatty people. No alcohol. Great. We've got this. Hardly any salad. Arclight's like, we're there for you. Oh, my God. I hate going to the movies. But if I do go, that place is where I go. All right. Yeah. I mean, I think movies stories are the only things I have because that's pretty much all I do. Movies and then I'll go to CVS and buy 17 lipsticks, which I just showed you. I just saw that I have one of them on my hand that I might have to steal from you.

They have this announcement for people who get mad that we don't talk enough about true crime stuff. I'm going to move into a beige lipstick era here in 2020. Look, we're basically, we're pot and beauty bloggers. Yeah. Or podcasters. And maybe movie. And we blog about it. Yeah. We blog about it and only I go to the movies. Right. But we're going, we're going to go into every other. How about we also do historical stuff? Great. We're just going to go into every podcast area. I literally can't think of it. I was going to try to say something about the, what's that chart with all the letters on it? Periodical time tables. It's not the period. We're math. We're math fucking bloggers. We're newspapers. We're math. We do it all.

Periodical time stables. Somehow this is a successful. Okay. Is it? I mean, I turned around and I guess it is. All right. Who's first this year? Who's first this year? KK. KK. Well, me and my beige lips are about to tell you. I'm almost more interested in what you have to say because your lips are such a great color. Because they're muted. They're also bringing out my eyes. Yeah. The rosacea and your cheeks. Oh dear. You don't have rosacea. I will though. I will soon. Sure. We all will. Oh, I do have a story. I knew it. I knew there was stuff in there. What is it? In this big, wide brain of yours. Empty, rangy brain of mine. Went home for Christmas, obviously, to Petaluma. Had a great time,

got to see the family. Nora is a teen. It's very disturbing. I will tell you this now. If you have nieces and nephews that you love and live vicariously through who are, say, five or six, you better drink it in. You better go to the park with them every time they ask you to go to the park. You better do every single possible thing that you can do because it goes so fast. And I sound like every aunt of mine. Sound like every parent. Yeah. It's so weird though. But like, looking at her, I'm like, well, that's, oh, the baby's gone. Where the hell did the baby go? It's such a bummer. So you have to wait till she gets teen pregnant. I'm sorry I said that. I'm sorry. Well, you're going to have to deal with Laura Kilgariff. Look, the phone's ringing already.

How dare you? No, so we went out to dinner on the last night in town and it was the restaurant we always go to that we love and we meet my dad in the back bar and then we all get sit at the table. We have a lovely fun dinner. Nora's got a friend there. We all have a great time. At the end, my dad asked for the check. The waiter says it's already been taken care of. I can't believe it. And we're like, and I tell you, if you ever tried to want to impress Jim Kilgariff, pick up a check. It blows his mind. He can't believe it. It's kind of classy as fuck. It is. It's very classy to not even to let it be a discussion to have it already been taken care of type of thing. So we're like, wait, what? How is this possible? And my sister

gives me this look like you, like it was my plant where I'm like, I'm not, I didn't do anything. I was sitting here the whole time. So then I was like, who did it? And he's like, I think her name was Caitlyn. Oh my God. So then he's just kind of like the waiter kind of didn't know what was going on. So then I'm like, let's just leave. Let's just go. And my dad's like, no, you have to go back into the bar and figure out who it is. And I was like, dad, how, how am I, what am I, should I just go back there and yell? Does anyone listen to my podcast? Caitlyn here. So and he's like, yes, you have to. So I get up to go back there. And this woman stops me and I'm like, oh, are you Caitlyn? And she goes, no, I'm Anna. And I just want to say,

and then gives a very lovely compliment about representing people from Petaluma and making her proud to be from Petaluma, which was lovely. But then no one's ever said that about me and Irvine because they're not, they don't even want to admit that I'm from there. And neither do I. No one does. No one does. But then a woman comes out and I'm like, are you Caitlyn? And she goes, no, I'm Caitlyn's mother. And she's like, I saw you in the bar, I texted her, you were here, she came down, paid your bill and left. And I go, why wouldn't she say anything? And she goes, because she didn't want to interrupt you while you were eating. I feel like buying everyone's dinner was a free ticket to interrupt dinner. Oh, yes. But Caitlyn was, did the classiest thing

I've ever heard of in my life, which is like pay and go. Amazing. That's badass. That's so amazing. So thank you, Caitlyn. God damn it, I better be getting this name. I know I got the name right because I wrote it down. But, but then the mom goes, and I know you from when you were little, because I used to be friends with your cousin, Lisa. Oh my God. And then it turns out it's like old time Petaluma hangout time. It was really lovely and like it felt really good. It was very, um, you know, I felt very, I was, I felt like this year, I was the butter queen, whatever the name, the Petaluma Butter Queen, the Butter Next Day Princess. I bet you are. I am in my mind. And you're going to sit on a float and you're going to wave at

the people. I'm going to wave my ass off at those people. Slipping around, the float's just a big thing of butter. I'm just slipping around on it. It's like, yeah, like just a big melted thing of butter, like a hot tub. But your skin is so soft after. Oh my God, soft and salty. That's what I had. That was my recovered memory. Caitlin, congratulations to you. Caitlin, you're the classiest MF-er of all time. That's right. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, HelloFresh has you covered. HelloFresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. HelloFresh meals are convenient, seasonal, and delicious.

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with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Arisha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva will tell you how she hid her true self to

make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. This week and this first show of 2020, I'm going to do the story of Robert Hansen, the butcher baker. Do you know this guy? No, I didn't know they're a butcher bakers. Yes. Well, you do know this guy because you know the story of the guy that hunted women in Alaska. Yeah. It's him. I hate him. I hate him so much. That's why I haven't done the story. Yeah. We're actually I'm going to find in it. Someone suggested it like over the holidays. Great. I want to find the name. Okay. Okay, so let's do the story. I

feel like I feel like it was hard for me to find a story for this week and it's going to be hard for the for 2020. So please suggest stories for us. Yes, we love suggestions. We love it. We really do. DM us fucking at us. There's a fan cult forum where you could just suggest murders. We love it. And also when people get this on Twitter every once in a while, people will be like, it has all the things. Yes. Ding ding and you know, a hidden wall and this and that. There's been some great ones. Yes. So give it to me on Instagram, not Karen on Twitter, please, because I need them. Oh, well, I can give you this hint that I just found. Okay. Because in looking this up, Jay did research for me. And so it's of course, Wikipedia, Murderpedia and all things interesting.

Gotta love all things interesting. That website's amazing. But I watched the an episode of Remember the Old FBI Files. Yes, I forgot all about that one. Well, there's a Wikipedia page with every single episode, which has literally has the linked descriptions of the crimes. I'm writing it down. Boom. Also, and you know what sex really bad is that I can't find the old cold case files anywhere. There's like a new season of cold case where Danny Glover is the fucking narrator, which is really cool. That is very cool. But I can't find the old episodes. Oh, so I'm like, I need it. So yeah, I'm going to go. Was that the one that was on HBO? No, it was on A&E, but it was what's his awesome name, Curtis. Bill Curtis was the narrator. Oh, old one.

Right. Yeah. Okay. Okay, sorry. Go. No, no, no, that's okay. I wonder if they took the old other ones off because they're going to try to modern monetize them somehow. I'll fucking pay. I will pay. Okay, so this was from season two, episode six, which was called Hunting for Humans on the FBI files. Okay. And of course, it's got everybody's best friend, FBI profiler, and mind hunter, John Douglas on it. I can't believe it. Featured prominently. I watched that when I was really young. So we knew all about that guy and shit before. I didn't know that I knew who he was. I know. Yes, I feel like that's why so much of this true crime tsunami that's not ending seemingly anytime soon. And then in two months, it just drops out from under us. Listen, but

that's the thing is it's, it's, we've, we all have this in our subconscious. It's almost like nostalgia. Yeah. But it's, it's like a nostalgia for this horrible thing that we've all been kind of keeping inside of like, remember this story or that thing? Oh yeah, I've been carrying that in my nightmares for fucking 15 years. I've been trying to prevent this happening. I've been, I've been thinking about what if this, you know, whatever, but then there's also these people that come along with it that are your John Douglas's that go, well, we know this and here's the science and here's what we're trying to, here's how we fight it. We're trying to earn you with information. Yeah. And then they start talking about DNA, like it's, you know, black magic and it's the greatest.

Anyway, I'll stop. No, no, no. That's the fun of like all that. So the FBI files get in there. Also they're on YouTube, but there's no name because I think that's how they, oh, I hope I don't bust anybody secretly put it up. Yeah. So because I was watching it, I'm like, what is this? This all seems so familiar. And then by, I basically went backwards and went, oh, I get it. Yeah. Anyway, sneaky. You didn't hear it from me. This was suggested to me by someone on Twitter called VRB. Her at is burgers well done. And she actually sent the all things interesting article about it. And it was kind of like, have you ever, I love one people just because we haven't done it. They assume we've never heard of it before. It's like, I have heard of it.

But then I was like, no, actually, that is a really good suggestion. So thank you VRB. Burgers well done. I agree. Burgers should be well done. No pink. We begin on June 13th, 1983, in Anchorage, Alaska. And this also, this story, because they start this FBI files talking about how, because Alaska is so wild and open and isolated, that a lot of people go there to get lost. And then a lot of people do get lost there or just leave there, like go there, try to, you know, escape or whatever, and then just leave. So missing, missing persons is a weird thing up there because it's not like Los Angeles where people see you every fucking day. And suddenly they haven't seen you in a day or two, right? Or that you, if you tried to go up there, make your way

stuffed and work out, you just get on a plane and leave and come back to the lower 48 or whatever. So that it was interesting because I'd never really thought about that part before. And it made me think of in college when things were really shitting the bed or when I had failed terribly in many ways. A thing that was very popular in the 90s was this idea that you were going to, you were going to go work on a fishing boat in Alaska or even canning at a canning place. You didn't even have to go on the cannery. Yes. I remember like some fucking total burnouts that I knew were like, yeah man, you can make this amount of money. That was like their fucking plan A. Trying to go to the cannery because if you can get there, you can make $18 an hour. Right.

Nobody talking about the fact that you'd be elbows deep in raw fish. Right. And like that it sucks and it's manual labor that like you better be making $18. Right. And it's seasonal. So it's like you can only make a certain amount and you might die on a fishing boat in the meantime. Yeah. How about just tighten up your game a little, Karen, and go down to the goddamn blockbuster. I didn't mean you. No. Listen, it's, it was my thing of, my solution and it's very alcoholic, but it's always like way in the, I'm going to go way over there and start over. Yeah. I'll fix it. I'll fix it there. You can't start over when it's still you. Just hang out and try to start in the inside. You can't start over when it's still you. You can't. I mean like

you can, you know, you can like effect change slowly, but surely, but you, moving away and getting a weird job. Yeah. Just your, that's just circumstances. That's just you having a weird job and having moved away. You got to work on yourself if you want to succeed in that weird job. Or just, yeah, if you want to start making $18 an hour, learn things that will get you the skills to get you a job that gets you that instead of like, I'm going to make it at the cannery. Here I go on the fishing boat. Like when those fishing boat shows started like a deadliest catch or whatever those shows, I would watch them going, that could be me. I was not qualified in any way to work on that fishing boat with my weird purple hair. Okay. So here we are. 1983,

June 13th, Anchorage, Alaska. So a 17 year old sex worker named Cindy Paulson is, is working and she is approached by a skinny, nervous looking man with acne scars and a stutter. He offers her 200 bucks for oral sex. She looks at him, sizes him up. She doesn't think he looks, he seems nice. He doesn't seem very strong. So she agrees and gets into his car. Almost immediately, he pulls a gun on her and handcuffs her hands. He then drives her to his home on the east side of town, takes her inside and brings her into his den where there's a chain hanging from the ceiling. He chains her there. He tortures and rapes her repeatedly. Then he takes her down to the basement, chains her to a post by her neck, takes a nap. When he gets up, he puts the handcuffs

back on her hands, puts her into the backseat of his car and drives her to the Merrill Field Airport, which is about a mile east of downtown Anchorage. He tells her not to make any noise or try to get anyone's attention while they go there or he'll kill her and whoever it is she's trying to get the attention off, which is actually such an effective threat because it's basically like you'll kill an innocent person if you try to save yourself. So he tells her he's going to take her out to his cabin in the very remote Canick River area of the Matanuska Valley. God, I wonder if I pronounced Matanuska right. I was going to say nice pronunciation on those. I was really worried about Canick, but then I didn't look twice at Matanuska. But it came right out. Matanuska.

That's what it feels like to me. Well, it's remote. So no one's going to be like, that's my hometown and you said it wrong. Well, but you know, it's going to be three very angry people as opposed to 500 that kind of don't care. But still, even if that's you, I still want to hear from you. Okay. So this valley is only accessible by boat or a plane. So when we're talking remote, this is Alaska remote. He also says that he's taken, quote, lots of girls there for, quote, fun. He tells her he has friends who are willing to lie for him and saying that he was somewhere else so that if she does go to the police, no one will believe her. So they get to the airport and he gets out and starts to load up this airplane. So she is realizing like this is,

this is real. Yeah. And then she notices his, she's in the back seat, but the front seat, driver's side door is unlocked. Oh my God. So she slips over the front seat, still handcuffed. Holy shit. And slides out the driver's side door. And you know, in the middle of all that, even after hours of being tortured and raped, she still has the fucking genius idea to leave her shoes in the back seat. So there's evidence that she was in the car. Holy shit. Genius. Genius. Way to go. 17 and 17 years old, traumatized, nailing it. So here goes Cindy, shoeless, half naked, handcuffed, running the fuck out of the airport and toward the busy street, which is a sixth avenue apparently. So he, she's, she's on her way and the man notices

that she's out. So he starts to run after her. But before he can catch up to her, she manages to flag down a truck driver named Robert Yount, who sees her naked shoeless, half naked, I should say, shoeless, running in handcuffs and he stops and picks her up. Hell yeah. Three cheers for Robert Yount. Yes. Let's all be like Robert Yount when we see scary things and get involved because holy shit. So he saves her life. Ain't no Yount about it. Like no doubt about it? No. No. I'm gonna say no on that one in 2020. No Yount about it. That's what I meant. There it is. She asked him to drop her off at this motel where she also lives. He does and then immediately calls the police and tells them about the whole thing. When they get there,

she's still handcuffed. She went and called her boyfriend. I'm sure she thought the police would never help her and how easy it would be to buy into the story this guy told her. Totally. So the police arrive, she's still handcuffed barefoot and she's alone. So they uncuff her handcuffs and they listen as she tells this horrible story of hours of torture. They don't doubt her. They think she's very credible. She's giving tons of detail about the inside of his house, has all these hunting trophies and stuffed heads of animals all around. And she describes the revolver he pulled on her as having a wooden handle. They ask her if she'll come down to the station and give an actual statement. She agrees to do that. And then on the way, she insists that they

stop at the airport so that she can show them the airplane he was about to put her into, which is genius. It's like, and so brave. So when they do that, then the security guard at the airport gives them the license plate number of the car that was at that airport hangar spot, I don't know, parking space. So then they check and the name on the car registration matches the name on file for the owner of the airplane, 40-year-old Robert Hansen, who is a local baker. What? The owner of the local bakery where all the cops get their doughnuts. No joke. They all know him. And he has a wife and kids. He's a local family man that everyone knows. Oh, it's always those guys. Well, it's the perfect cover, right? Yeah. So this all automatically puts a little bit

of a dent in her story because they're like, that guy is the baker. So she picks his photo out of a lineup. Two hours later, the police bring him in for questioning and he admits that he did pay Cindy for sex, but he denies ever harming her. He's very calm. He's not, doesn't seem worried in any way. He explains his wife and kids are away on a trip to Europe and he was hanging out with his two friends. We'll call them both John at the time that Cindy claims to have been raped and tortured by him. He explains that Cindy was trying to extort him for more money. And when he didn't give in to that, she concocted the story about him. So police go and question the two Johns and they both say yes, he was with us. What the fuck? And so basically, Cindy's story kind of falls

apart because of course, this is now local small business owner versus young sex worker who has a verified alibi by two probably, you know, verifiable people. Right. Exactly. Everybody, if they're all on the up and up, so then suddenly she did her word is no good. Right. Which is why you should never give someone an alibi if they ask you for it. That's right. What the fuck? Even if they were with you, deny it. This is how we solve things. Okay, so so basically it's what he threatened her with comes true, which sucks. So then when Cindy's asked to take a lie detector test, she declines because she's basically like, you don't believe me anymore anyway. And that now you're just going to prove I'm lying. And so she just like takes off.

But officer Greg Baker, who was the original officer who went to take her statement in her hotel, motel room, he believes her. He knows she's telling the truth. And he believes he doesn't believe that Robert Hansen is innocent just because he owns a fucking bakery. God bless him. He's a baker. He doesn't trust bakers. That's weird, right? He's a what? He's a he's last name is Baker. Oh, yes, that's true. And he's like, we're inherently evil people. And because of this, I'm on your side. So basically, he's like, I know this is real, and this is I'm not letting this go. Meanwhile, there's no hard evidence. There's really nothing the police can go with. So they close the case. And and they, of course, it's that thing where

well, she won't give a lie. You won't take a lie detector test. So I guess she's not pushing it. So we're gonna let it go. Yeah. So the Greg Baker keeps working on it anyway. The Good Baker, three cheers for Greg Baker. Believe women like Greg Baker did. So what's more disturbing about this case being closed so quickly is that the police in Anchorage had suspected that there had been a serial killer operating in the area. Because in the past three years, they'd found three sets of human remains in the remote wilderness outside of town. So this is how it went. In July of 1980, construction workers are working, they're putting in a road in a very remote part of the Kinnick River region, when they discover a very decomposed body buried in a shallow grave.

Authorities publicly release a facial reconstruction to try and identify her, but no one comes forward to to claim that they knew her. This discovery kicks off an investigation that's led by Detective Glenn Floth of the Alaska State Troopers. And they named the body Eklatna Annie. Later that same year, 1980, another body's found in a gravel pit in the same area where Eklatna Annie was found. She's identified as 24 year old Joanna Messina. She had been working as a dancer at a strip club in Anchorage before she went missing. And they find a showcasing from a 223 caliber rifle near near the remains. And then two years later on September 12, 1982, hunters find the body of yet another dancer, 23 year old Sherry Morrow. And this is the bodies in

a shallow grave on the banks of the Kinnick River. So it's all the same area. There are three gunshot wounds from 223 caliber bullets and ace bandages among her remains, leading investigators to believe that she had been blindfolded at the time of her death. So the team does digging and finds out Sherry worked at the Wild Cherry Bar in downtown Anchorage. And according to witnesses, she was last seen on November 17, 1981. She had told her friends that a man had approached her and asked if he could pay her to take pictures of her because he was a photographer. And she was supposed to meet him at a fast food restaurant. And that was the last that day that she went to meet him. That was the last time she was ever seen. So state troopers now believe that there's a

serial killer. They just don't believe that it could be somebody as friendly and who makes such delicious cakes and pies as Robert says. So which is what happens, right? It's like someone is familiar. Someone's not familiar. Someone does quote unquote trustworthy things performatively in their life. Someone lives, you know, a different style of life that is legally risky. But that shouldn't matter. I know it shouldn't. Okay, so because also when you think about it, just that thing that drives me crazy about sociopaths, they know how to perfectly mask themselves. They're not going to. Of course, they're going to be successful low key, right? Have family. They have all the cover that they need to then hate it. Okay. So Greg Baker is still working on the

case though. And he starts to delve into Robert Hansen's background. So he finds Hansen was born in Estreville, Iowa in 1939. He was raised the son of a Danish immigrant baker. He was super shy. He had a stutter and terrible acne. Kids would make fun of him. Girls wanted nothing to do with him. And of course, this is the early time where he's developing his hatred of women and and being rejected and, you know, all the pain of childhood that is not a justification for killing anybody at any time. He's a loner. He spends his free time teaching himself how to hunt with guns and bows and arrows because that'll get the ladies loving you. Cool, Jay. In 1957, he enlists in the U.S. Army Reserve. He's discharged after a year. Then he works as an assistant drill instructor at the

police academy in Pocahontas, Iowa. There he meets his first girlfriend and gets married in the summer of 1960. But that December, he's arrested for burning down the high school bus garage. He's 21. Oh, my God. But he burns down the bus garage of the high school he had gone to. So, Arson. We're starting with Arson. Arson, right? Which is like four red flags by itself. And then also you're 21 and you're still that pissed about high school. Totally. He's sentenced to three years in prison. He appeals and gets his sentence shortened to 20 months while he's there. And no one, of course, no one knows that Arson is a huge indicator bad things are happening in that person. He's not a one and done crime. No, no. People don't just dabble in Arson. No. No. He's

diagnosed with bipolar disorder and is having periodic schizophrenic episodes when he goes to jail. His wife at that time divorces him after less than a year of marriage. He's released from prison. He gets married again in 1963. I don't know. How do they do it? He has a couple run-ins with the law for petty theft and he does jail time, but there's no long-term sentences. And then in 1967, he and his new wife moved to Anchorage. They settled down, have two kids, and he follows in his father's footsteps and opens this bakery. But he again starts to have run-ins with the law and they are now escalate. In 1972, he's convicted of rape and assault. It serves six months in prison because it's 1972. I hate it. I think that was before, I was listening to The Man in the

Window, which is an unbelievable Golden State Killer podcast by the LA Times. And they're talking about this, and I don't know if it was in California, in Sacramento, or nationally, but when those rapes first began, rape was not a felony crime. Right. I just can't get over it. That's what she told us at the show at what... Oh, Carol Daly. Carol Daly told us about it. That's right. That's right. It's just mind boggling though. It's just insane. Well, the fact that there's still a statute of limitations on sexual assault to me is like so archaic and... Yeah. Yeah. It's just, I think we all assume that people give a shit if someone gets sexually assaulted and thinks people should be punished. Well, people do give a shit. I think

that we all assume like these laws are just like the way it is as opposed to this is because there's people who would never be in danger of being raped, making decisions about how these things, how important or threatening these things actually are. It's nuts. So he serves his six months in prison. He gets placed on a work release program. And then in 76, he pleads guilty to larceny for stealing a chainsaw from an Anchorage department store. He's sentenced to five years for stealing a chainsaw. Are you fucking kidding me? Uh-huh. But then that gets reduced and he is released. You know, values, standards. You got to wonder what like the wife is going through her mind at that time where she's just like, oh fuck. Yeah. You know. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So now

Officer Greg Baker is like, hey, can we, this is not a person that's this upstanding member of our community. Can we actually, if we're going to be like, you know, getting rid of Cindy Paulson's word because she has a record, this guy has a record himself. Right. Okay. So then on September 2nd, 1983, basically right when he's trying to say, hey, let's actually look at this guy, the body of a fourth woman, 17-year-old dancer Paula Golding is found. She was reported missing five months earlier and like the others, her remains are found in a shallow grave along the Canick River and her autopsy reveals she had been shot with a 223 caliber bullet. Okay. So now the Anchorage authorities reach out to the FBI and they're

like, you have to help us with this and we have to, we have to get on this. And this is when our friend special agent, John Douglas joins the investigation. The mind hunter is here. Yay. So John Douglas profiles the killer based on the crime evidence that they do have. So he says, this killer will be a business owner because of the distance and range of where these bodies are being found, this is a person that would be able to set his own schedule. It isn't answering to a boss or weekly anything. Right. He'd be an experienced hunter because he would be out in that elastin wilderness, obviously, where there's bears and he would have low self-esteem brought on by history of rejection from women and probably due to a speech defect of some kind.

Yeah. And he did all this not knowing the background of our guy. Yeah, exactly. Obviously, all of those, that whole profile points directly to Robert Hanson. So the investigators get a search warrant to search Hanson's bakery, his airplane and his home. But the DA tells the police, you have to execute this. You can't touch anything that's not on the search warrant. You have to do this perfectly because we can't just keep going after this guy. So this is basically your last chance. So John Douglas is like, so make sure then that you put on there that you're looking for women's jewelry because he's going to have trophies of these women. He's, John Douglas is bringing all that serial killer information that nobody in Ingrid knew

and law enforcement knew in the early 80s. And he's like, you're going to want to be looking for trophies, whatever. So I think they said it was a 48 page search warrant that got served. That's what I find so fascinating at search warrants. You can't just go in and take whatever you want. You have to be, you can only take what you're looking for specifically written on the search warrant. Yeah, you have to explain to the judge what you're looking for and why that is the evidence and, you know, whatever, like it all has to be justified. So, so basically they show up the, the bakeries a bus, the airplanes a bus. They don't find anything in either of those places. And while they're, so while they're searching his house, they bring him back into the station.

But this time John Douglas is like, this time let's set up the interrogation room a little different. And they put up the pictures of all the women who've been found all the victims. And then they put up the area map, they put up pictures of the shell casing, they basically just throw up all the hard evidence and make him sit in that room and look at everything that they have. And the fact that they're, you know, basically onto him. And then meanwhile, the cops that are searching his house, they go up into the attic and underneath the insulation, they find 223 caliber high powered rifle hidden under there and the revolver with the wooden handle that Cindy Paulson described when he attacked her. So they find those guns, boom, they've got that. Then they

have, there's a secret panel they find in that den. And behind that is a bunch of jewelry and all, like the victims, like there's one necklace that one of the victims wore that she wore every single day. And that along with a bunch of other personal effects were found behind like a false panel in the wall. Hidden panels. Hidden panel. Then in his bedroom behind his, the headboard of his bed, they find an aviation map with a bunch of X's on it. And as they, it's of the Kinnick River area, and they look and see three of the spots where they've already found remains are marked on this map. So they're like, well, here's some fucking hard evidence. They basically call the station and they're like, we've got everything we need. And then as they're standing there, the neighbor lady

comes over to say, what is going on? And the cop explains, like this guy's getting investigated for murder. And he goes, and the neighbor lady says, this is straight out of the FBI files episode. The neighbor lady's like, my husband, John gave him an alibi and it's totally fake. And they're like, what? And she's like, they thought it was for something small and it's fake. And so both of the Johns go in and recant their alibis. So all of it is taken away. They have all the hard evidence they need. And basically they bring all that evidence into the room and Robert Hansen realizes there's no denying anymore. So he confesses to attacking Cindy Paulson, as well as to 17 total murders and 30 rapes beginning as early as 1971.

Police believe he has more victims than he's admitting to, but that's the most that they can get out of him. He explains to police that he would capture the women and force them to do what he wanted. And he said, if the women complied and if they could convince him that they weren't going to go to the police after he would let them go. But if he thought they were trouble in any way, he would strip them and then he would bring them up to the Alaskan wilderness near this cabin that he owned in the Kinnick River area and he would hunt them down like prey and kill them. Oh, it's so awful. It's so awful. It's so awful. So on February 27th, 1984, he pleads guilty to four counts of first degree murder and to the rape and assault of Cindy Paulson. And even though he

admitted to 13 additional murders, he's only formally charged for four of them, which is for Sherry Morrow, for Joanna Messina, for Paula Golding and for Eklatna Annie. So for the bodies, they can find. Exactly. For the bodies. But be not afraid, because he is sentenced to 460 years plus life in prison. Yay. Yes. Finally, one of those. In May of 1984, police take Robert Hansen on a plane ride so that he can point out the remaining gravesites. Wow. And he actually points out most of them. There's four he refuses to admit to or acknowledge for reasons the police can't figure out. Authorities are able to recover 11 bodies over the course of the next eight months. Holy shit. 11. On August 21st, 2014, Robert Hansen dies in prison at the age of 75

due to undisclosed health problems. And so here's the list of the known or suspected victims. Lisa Futrell, 41, body found with his Hansen's help. Malai Larson, 28, her body was found. Sue Luna, 23, her body was found. Tammy Pedersen, 20, her body was found. Angela Federn, 24, also found. Teresa Watson, body found. Dylan Sugarfrey, her body was actually found with a pilot flying over the Canik River, found, saw her remains on a sandbar and she was found on August 20th, 1985. Paula Golding was found. Andrea Altieri, her body was not found, but he admitted that he killed her. Sherry Morrow, 23, Eklaka Annie, her true identity has still not been identified to this day. Joanna Messina, her body was found. There was another set of remains that had that they couldn't

find the identity of. So they call her horseshoe Harriet and they estimate her age to be about 18 years old. Roxanne Eastland, who is 24, but her body was not found, but he admitted to killing her. Cecilia Beth Vanzantin, who was 17, he denied killing her, but the police suspect that he did because of the X on the aviation map and that her body was found there. Megan Emmerich, 17 years old, same situation, and Mary Thill, 22. And he also denied killing, he denied killing Megan, Annie denied killing Mary, but same the place where there was an X on the map. And those are the victims of the butcher baker Robert Hansen. Wow. Yeah. It's so crazy how many other victims that survived there are that just had to to deal with the trauma because they didn't want to come forward,

the women he sexually assaulted. Right. And he threatened them in such a convincing and like, yeah, a horrible way. It's the it's the further exploitation of people that are living in those marginal those marginal lifestyles where it's just like basically a person attacking you and then saying no one cares about you anyway. Yeah. And then of course they would why wouldn't they believe him? Right. Right. Wow, that is fucked up. Great job. Because Cindy Paulson was so amazing. So present of mind, she helped all those women be identified. She helped like, like all those all those families have closure. She has no idea that how much she did and just that those brave moments of also just being like, you know, go to the airplane, like, like, I need to I need you

to see this now. I need to go look at this airplane. Of course, the airplane would be gone if they went right like later on, like, do it now. Go with you. It's so great. So courageous. Yeah. Yeah. She she helped catch a serial killer. Yeah, she did. It's amazing. Yeah. Wow. Great job. She she's just like John Douglas in that way. Essentially, she's John Douglas. She yeah, it wasn't for her. They wouldn't have anything to talk about. That's right. Yeah. Okay, this is one that is one of those stories that I've been if you're like me and you're a late night fucking deep dive unsolved murder obsessive. This is one that you see on every message board on every list of like this crazy story that's unsolved. And so I thought,

let's just cover it. And and I'll tell you what I know about it. This is the unsolved murder of Dorothy Jane Scott. And I got a lot of information from Reddit and unsolved mysteries forum and websites and true crime society. And then there's a person called crime blogger 1983.com that I got info from. But there's also a true crime diary post about this that was done in 2012 by the first guest blogger Paul Haynes. No way. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Oh my God. Of course, we know him from Michelle McNamara's book, All the Gone in the Dark. And that's right. And he was her researcher and how to finish the book and everything. Amazing. So yeah, it goes all the way back. So in 1980, 32 year old Dorothy Jane Scott, she's this attractive, dark-eyed single mother of a

four year old boy named Sean. She lives in her aunt's house in Stanton, California, which is a small city in Orange County between Anaheim and Garden Grove. I've never heard of that city. I honestly haven't really either. Really? Even though it's 20 minutes from my house. Stephen, have you heard of it? You're from Orange County. No, I was like, I grew up in Anaheim. I've never heard of that. I haven't heard of that city. So it's tiny. I wonder, yeah, tiny and maybe like unincorporated or something weird. Yeah. Especially in the 80s, there was so, it was so much like brush and grassland and orange groves. Like there wasn't as built up as it is now. Yeah. So Dorothy works as a secretary for a place called Swinger's Psych Shop in Anaheim. And it's a store

her father used to own and then there's a store next door and they're kind of like owned by the same people now and they're like kind of, you know, a duo of stores. It's called Custom John's Head Shop. Oh, okay. Oh, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So they service the small hippie culture in Orange County. They sell psychedelic stuff like like black light posters and lava lamps and that and at the other store, they, they sell quote water pipes. Sure. You know what I mean? Rolling papers. Right. So for when you want to roll up your tobacco or smoke your tobacco out of a big weird hookah. Right. And I like roach clips just for my hair. You know, it's fun to put them in your hair and then sometimes you can pick up small items on the floor with them. That's right.

So it's that kind of place. But Dorothy was actually a devout Christian and she wasn't part of the scene at all. She just worked in the back offices. So she didn't even have interaction with the customers or anything. And she preferred staying home. She didn't go out a lot. She didn't party. She didn't do drugs. She didn't drink. One of her friends described her life as quote, doll as a phone book, which is really mean, I think. But also a really good. Yeah. That's a really good metaphor. Yeah. I think she just means that it's like she wasn't a party or, you know, even though she worked in this environment. So her parents, they live near the stores in Anaheim. They babysat their grandson, Dorothy's son while she worked. And Dorothy's

father, Jacob said that his daughter may have dated a little, but they should know steady boyfriend at the time. Her life revolved around her son and work where she was known as a dependable worker and by all accounts, she was just kind of a lovely person. Yeah. So unfortunately for months, though, Dorothy had been receiving anonymous phone calls at work from an unidentified male who sometimes it was like, I'm in love with you and express all this love for her. And sometimes would express like hatred and violence towards her and say things like, when I get you alone, I will cut you up into bits so no one will ever find you. Oh my God. Her mom said that he said that to her one time. And she told her mom that she recognized the voice, but she just couldn't

place it, which is so creepy and frustrated. That's great. That would drive me insane. Yeah, like you have met this person before and you can't be like, in my mind, I'd be like, I'd recognize anyone's voice. But if you've met someone one time, let's say, and it was like a passerby or a friend or a friend, or it's like, it's a gas station you've been to twice, right type of thing. Yeah, exactly. And according to Dorothy's mom, the stalker once called Dorothy at work and told her to go outside because he had left something for her. And on the hood of her car, there's a single dead rose. So it's just like bad fucking news. Yeah, this creepy stalking. But sorry, you said this was when? 1982. Yeah, I'm sorry, 1980. Okay, yeah. So like, so it's kind of when

people are like, peeping, Tom's are hilarious. Aren't you flattered that you have an admirer? Oh, it's nice. Yeah, exactly. So he told her that he was following her and knew all her whereabouts and knew her work schedule. He totally like knew when to call when she was there. He described details of her activities, like daily activities to prove it. And because of the calls, Dorothy was so terrified that she started taking karate lessons and was considering buying a handgun. But on Wednesday, May 27, 1980, Dorothy dropped her son off at her parents' house in the evening to go to a work meeting at 9pm. So she's at this work meeting, all the coworkers are there. And one of her coworkers named Conrad is looking ill. He looks weird. He's fidgeting. There's

something not right about him. So she goes over to him and he turns out he has this red mark on his arm. And she's like, we got to get to the hospital. So she along with another coworker named Pam leaves the meeting they get in her car and they all take Conrad to the emergency room at the UC Irvine Medical Center. And there the doctors are like, bro, you've been bitten by a black widow. Oh, no. Yeah. Okay. So he's treated and Pam and Dorothy stay in the emergency room, waiting room together, like just making sure he's okay. He's finally discharged around 11 o'clock. And so him and Pam, the two coworkers go get in line to get his prescription filled. And meanwhile, Dorothy's like, I'll go grab the car to the parking lot and bring it around so that you

don't have to walk all the way to the car because you're sick still. Parking lots are for two people. Yeah. But parking lots are for lovers. Can't you understand like a hospital parking lot? You're like, there's no safer place in your mind. I could totally understand that. Oh, I mean, yes, because it's probably well lit. It's right there by the building. There's people coming and going. It feels official. Yes. There feels like it's official people are nearby. Exactly. Yes, but totally still. So Pam and Conrad get the prescription. They go wait for the exit for by their exit for Dorothy to pull up and she doesn't. So they're like, what's going on? They go out into the parking lot to see where the hell she is. And suddenly out of the darkness,

they see Dorothy's car comes speeding like careening towards them. The flashlights, what are they called? Headlights. Yes, but the brights are on so they can't see who's in the car. You know, they can't tell if there's more than one person in the car or whatever. So they start waiting their arms to try to get Dorothy's attention to be like, what are you doing? You should stop. But the car speeds past them. They go to run after the car. Its headlights suddenly go out and the car takes off out of the parking lot and speeds away. Conrad and Pam think like, maybe Dorothy had an emergency come up with her son, like maybe something crazy happened. So they wait two hours in the waiting area to see if she's going to come back and get them.

Oh, sorry. But there is something kind of ironic where they're like, she's sped away for the emergency away from the emergency room. But it's right. She has a kid. I'm not I'm not saying it's illogical. I'm just saying. I didn't think about that crazy. It's also like you question the two hours of why they just didn't why they didn't do anything before that. I mean, I guess because it's so easy to fill in blanks. It's so easy to go like we know her what she's like. She's got a son. She's so dependable. So she'll probably come back. And I think it's a human instinct. And maybe this is what happens in a lot of these cases we talk about. People don't want the bad thing to be real. And it is like you sit there going, she just

went to get her son and she's going to be back really soon. And also, I don't think they knew about the crazy calls. It doesn't say whether or not they did. But I'm assuming they didn't. Because I feel like if they did know about it, they would have put two and two together. Exactly. Yeah. So they wait for two hours. She doesn't return. So they contact the police who aren't very concerned. They're like, she probably just went home or whatever. But her parents, of course, are understandably worried about it, especially they knew about Dorothy's recent stalking and harassment. So worry turns to dread just a few hours later at about 4.30 in the morning when Dorothy's car, it's a white 1973 Toyota station wagon, is found burning in an alley about 10 miles

from the hospital. Oh my God. Yeah. There's no trace of Dorothy nor her supposed kidnapper. The police investigate the disappearance and they tell Jacob Scott, Dorothy's dad, not to share any information with the media just yet. They wanted to kind of keep it under wraps. But about a week after Dorothy's disappearance, her parents receive a phone call from an unidentified man who, when Dorothy's mom answers the phone, mom's name is Vera, the person says, are you related to Dorothy Scott? And when Vera replies that she was, the man replies, I've got her and then hangs up. Oh my God. So when Dorothy's father finally gets fed up with the investigation, not really going anywhere, and they're like losing hope, and there's no

progress, he contacts the Santa Ana Register, and they ran a story about Dorothy's disappearance. And on the day that the story ran, June 12, 1980, a call came in to the editor at the Santa Ana Register and an unidentified man said, quote, I killed her. I killed Dorothy Scott. She was my love. I caught her cheating with another man. She denied having someone else. I killed her. And then the caller knew things that hadn't been in the story. Yeah. So he said that he knew Conrad had suffered from a spider bite and that hadn't been put in the story and that's why he was at the hospital. And he also said that he knew that Dorothy had been wearing a red scarf that night. And the last part was significant. That part, the red scarf, significant because

Dorothy had only changed into the red scarf when the trio had stopped by her parents' house on the way to the hospital. And she had seemed really insistent on changing from her black scarf into her red scarf. But no one knows why she did that. And but it just seemed important to her at the time. So neither of these details have been published in the article. And the caller also claimed that Dorothy had called him from the hospital that night. But Pam, who was there with her the entire time, was like, fuck no. I was with her the whole time. The only time we parted before she went to the parking lot was when she went to the bathroom. I would have seen her if she'd made a call. Yeah. So investigators believe that the anonymous caller is responsible for

Dorothy's death. Wow. Yeah. And Andy's calling, he's calling in newspapers like, like he wants the attention. Yeah. Isn't that creepy? Dorothy's the son, her son, Sean, his father is checked out, of course. He hadn't airtight alibi. He's in fucking, lives in Missouri. He wasn't, he wasn't in California. Yeah. So they question everyone at the psych shop. They look at area sex offenders. They try to find any potential enemies of Dorothy, of course, even like questionable characters of life. They find nothing. And Dorothy's parents consulted psychics, of course. And even the police talk to psychics, but there's no leads at all. It's just this huge mystery. But those phone calls keep coming to Dorothy's parents' house almost every Wednesday for four years. No. What?

And they don't set up a... Yes. Well, the calls are really short. So usually they occurred when Vera was home alone. Like they specifically wanted her to answer. The caller would ask, is Dorothy there or tell her mother that he had killed her? Or he would say, I've got her. And of course, the lines were tapped, but the calls were too short to be traced, unfortunately. I feel like, I mean, I wonder what technology there is now. I'm sure it's a lot better, but... I bet it is. Well, I bet no one has... You do know it's the year 2020, right? Can you edit that out, please? Like, no, you keep it in. I just was going to say, do people have home lines anymore?

I don't know, but I think, I mean, I agree with you where it's hard to even fathom how little technology there was. And those were the phones I grew up with where I was like, boop, boop, boop. I remember getting a push button phone and it being like, what's up the future? I feel like any killer or any fucking crank calling crazy person knows to don't call for very long or they're going to trace it or call from a pay phone. They had to have known that. So I wonder if nowadays in the year 2020... Here in the year 2020? Like, you know, yeah, it's better. Yeah, that you could... I think that the... They can trace things better because of all like satellite stuff where they're just like, oh, here's... This is exactly where the call came.

Here's the tower ping. Here's the cell phone. Here's where it was bought from. Yeah, maybe. I'm embarrassed that I said that. Look, I didn't mean to embarrass you here in 2020. The year 2020 is my year of embarrassment. Feel it. Just do it. All I do. It's just frustrating too because it's like, it feels like if they're making... If they're reaching out and being that direct, something should be able to be done. Especially that often and that regularly. Every fucking Wednesday. Yeah. I think this is why the unsolved cases make me insane because I start to feel like, I have to figure out what is going on. I need to make up the solution right now.

They make me insane because I feel like the answer is in the story. And we just haven't figured it out yet. And if we read it enough times or we go over enough of the little details, we'll find it. It's just right there. But it doesn't happen. And sometimes those details are what drive you crazy. Again, going back to the man in the window, going back to the golden stick killer case where how many times was it like, do he know something about construction because of the map and this, this and the calves and whatever. And all of it was, all of it was red herring. Totally. Totally. But I, I love them because I can't stop doing that. It just kind of feeds this part of me that wants to figure, you know,

solve this puzzle. Yes, for sure. Okay. So the caller would never stay on it long enough. In April of 1984, the man called in the evening. And this time, Dorothy's father, Jacob, answers the call and the call stop. He doesn't say anything. He hangs up the call stop. Wow. Weird, right? Yes. But three and a half months after that last call and four years after her disappearance on August 6th, 1984, a construction worker, of course, who was laying pipe for phone lines, discovers skeletal remains and some brush off Santa Anna Canyon Road in Anaheim. I think Stephen's house was built on top of that. Oh, has that worked? I lived off Santa Anna Canyon Road. Yes. I just got chills right now. That's crazy. Do you know the story?

No, I don't. And because where I grew up, like the actual neighborhood I grew up was being built in like the late 80s or mid 80s or something. They have specific areas of where it is. You should look it up and see how far it is. I just got chills right now. That's creepy. Okay. Here's what's crazy. The remains that they found on top were of the bones of a dog. Okay. But lightly covered with soil underneath them due to erosion, they think, were the human bones. So there's a theory that somewhere like this is a cult thing that they put a burn dog on or like they put the dog of a body on top of human. But most people, people also say that a really good way to hide the scent of decomposition is put an animal on top. It throws the scent off for any dogs that

are looking for it or, you know, any search and rescue, wait, any cadaver dogs would just smell the dead dog. Right. And then they would find that dog stop. Right. Jesus, that's sinister. That kind of thought process being put into that. Totally. Is crazy. Totally. But can we just go back for one second? What's the cult thing? Well, that like, you know, a sacrificed animal was put on top of a dead body. Got you. You know what I mean? Yes, totally. Okay. The bones are partially charred. And because of that, authorities believe that they had been there for two years. And that's because a brush fire had swept across the site in 1982. So they think that the body was put there, and then either the brush fire happened on its own, or maybe someone lit it to conceal the bodies.

Because I was going to say, what about the burning car? That wouldn't actually make sense, because well, this person clearly liked fire, I guess, and like to burn their evidence. Yeah, that's right. It doesn't say anywhere about whether or not the fire happened on its own or the fire was set intentionally. Right. But there had been a fire in 1982. Okay. So along with the bones, there's a turquoise ring and a watch. And the watch had stopped at 1230 a.m. May 29th, 1980, about an hour after Pam and Conrad last saw Dorothy's car in the ER parking lot. Wow. And Vera, her mother identified the turquoise ring as belonging to her daughter. A week later, the remains are positively identified by dental records as those of Dorothy Scott. I know.

But at least there's a final answer to that. Yeah. And they had set in some newspaper clippings, like we just want to find her. They had a like $2,500 reward for the whereabouts of her body, like they didn't think she was alive anymore. Right. And they just wanted her body. After the announcement ran in the newspaper, the Scott family received two more calls from the same person asking, is Dorothy home? And then the call stopped. So this person, CrimeBlogger1983.com, who I got a lot of this info from, actually got in contact with Sean Scott, Dorothy's son, now adult son, which is crazy. And he gave this CrimeBlogger 1983 some photos of his mother to post because there was only like newspaper clippings. And he told this CrimeBlogger that

there's actually a suspect in Dorothy's case that Sean knew of, that some of Sean's mother's friends had told her about. Oh. So according to Sean, the suspect's name was Mike Butler. And apparently, he was a person who lived in the Santiago Mountains, which is like a close by mountain range, and was an involved in cult activity, allegedly. So perhaps that's the dog connection, which I think is flimsy. Yeah. Apparently, he sometimes came into the head shop, and he was obsessed with Dorothy. And as it turns out, his sister worked with Dorothy at Swinger's psych shop. So maybe that's how he knew her schedule and where she was and how she was always at work. Maybe his sister gave her info, like unknowingly gave him and her brother information about her life.

And it's just like, that's such a close fucking, you know. I mean, it makes sense that he's a suspect. Right. But that's it. He was just, the son was just telling him that there was someone they were looking at. Yeah. So Dorothy's dad used to own the head shop, right? And so they had, he had met this brother before, which maybe is why the caller would hang up if Jake have answered, because maybe he would have recognized his voice. Okay. An issue was like, I know the voice from somewhere, but I can't place it. Oh. Maybe it's his fucking brother. Right. Okay. And maybe not. And maybe not allegedly. I'm saying what Sean has told Crime Blogger 1983. I'm not saying just in fairness. Yes. In all fairness. In all fairness.

And also not. Yes. Yeah. Apparently, law enforcement was aware of Butler at the time, but they never had enough evidence to consider him a suspect or person of interest. He died in 2014. Okay. So we, we don't know. We don't know and can't know. Nope. Her older brother, Jim, told mourners at Dorothy's Memorial. Sure. They found the body. And even though she had no material wealth, she was very rich. He said, quote, we all have suffered a great loss, but I'm sure Dorothy would want this to be a time of giving. He said, to me, she exemplified the word give. She just give and give and give no matter what it cost her. So both Dorothy Scott's parents, Vera and Jacob, passed away, never knowing who killed their daughter. And that is the mysterious murder

of Dorothy Jane Scott. Wow. And it's like, it's kind of a hometown of yours. Yeah. Yeah. But I didn't even realize. Yeah. So creepy. That's so frustrating. It's just one of those. Whenever you see like Ranker doing like the most like mysterious disappearances of all time. Sure. Mysterious cases. That's always on there. And I'm just fascinated by it. It's so sad. And there's all those like so many close calls and that, that person who ever did it took so many risks. Yeah. I mean, yeah, to kidnap her in the hospital parking lot is insanity in her own car. Totally. And like drove by people who knew her and like, it just seems, it's so crazy. I just keep thinking of how would you, like at that time, I'm sure she just felt really helpless

and that it's such a strange situation to be in. It's just strange. And so you'd kind of just treat it as a weird thing. Yeah. But like, how would you try to catch that person? Like you'd have to follow her. Yeah. But far enough away so that you could also be following someone who would potentially also be following her. Like I'm just immediately was going into like, how would you do that? How would you find that person? Right. Like just physically walking around? How would you Well, you want to, you want to hope that like, you know, yeah, that like nowadays the interview, they would have interviewed people a little bit harder. They would have like put connections together maybe and figured that person out. Yeah. But you never know. And there's, if there's no

other evidence aside from, you know, phone calls that you can't trace, then there's nothing you can really do about it. It's just so creepy. A lot of people think that that the co-workers, you know, Conrad and Pam are involved, but I just, I'm sure they were checked out more than anyone. Yeah. Right. For sure. You gotta hope. Well, and also you'd have to think what would the, what would their motive be? Right. That just, that's just weird unless you're going to start going, everything's a cult in the mountains. Right. And probably there were witnesses at the hospital who saw them waiting and who they talked to and stuff. Yeah. It doesn't. I don't know. That doesn't feel right to me, but who knows. I mean, like that's again, that's the thing of,

yeah, who knows? I bet the answer's in there somewhere. Yeah. Creepy. Some weirdo at that head shop. God damn Charles Manson. I also can't hear a story about a head shop and not think that it's happening in the 60s instead of 1980. Oh yeah. I remember going to the SWAT meet in the 80s in Orange County and there'd be those like little head shop booths and stuff. Sure. You buy Beaties. Remember those little cigarettes? They would sell them to us so we'd smoke. We'd walk around smoking those. How about the incense that were like just little cones that you'd just light the top of the cone? Oh, I loved those. My next or our next or neighbor in the 70s had a blacklight poster that was just this weird little furry guy that was

just double birding the person looking at the poster. Double middle fingers. Yeah. So it was like, I just remember walking into a room and looking at it and just being like, sorry, what's this for? Like, that's not a fun poster. That's not like a horse running on the beach or like the outsiders. Like you're just flipping me off. It's so rebellious. No, fuck you little hairy character that is not of a company. I love little Karen being like, this has no meaning. This is an art. You're just being crass cut to me 40 years later, just saying the F word as many times as I can on my podcast. My best friend had a poster of a hot dog in her that driven. It was my absolute favorite thing in the entire world. Just a plain hot dog or a cartoon hot dog in the

face. No, it was a photo, a giant poster, the photo of someone holding a hot dog. And I just fucking coveted it. I love it. Did you steal it from like the concession stand at the roller rink? Probably. That's awesome. It was great. Was it like, I have so many questions. Can you get ahold of this person to ask some questions? I probably could. Just ask, where did you buy it or did you steal it from somewhere? Hey, can we talk about, because it was like a topic of discussion all the time between these two little five-year-olds. We just loved it. She was five and had a poster of a hot dog. I wonder if she had a relative that had a really good sense of humor, because if you're five, it doesn't make any sense. You're just given

things. You don't like go shop for shit. At least you did it back then. No, I don't think. It was more of like, oh, someone's going to give me a thing and I'll like that for a while. I want to put stuff on my wall. Oh, we have this poster of a hot dog that Uncle Dan gave you. Hey, Uncle Dan, your food photographer, Uncle, that has a lot of hopes and dreams. Yeah. He's got some stuff you can throw up if you want to. I just like hot dogs as a concept too. Sure. That's just fun. Sure. Visually great. Tastes great. Takes care of... Absolutely. Remember that hot dog we had at the football game in London? The football match? Yeah. The bun went all the way around. Yeah. And we just stood there eating it. It was super fast. And we didn't have anything on it? No.

Because there was nothing left or there was no room for people to move around. So we just ate the hot dog and it was great. Yeah. It was really self-contained, delicious. We could have a whole podcast about hot dogs we've eaten. Let's do it. Let's do it. I feel like the last time I ate a hot dog was on the beach in Hawaii. Nice. And there's a specific kind of hot dog that my friend Janet Ramazzi, what's up? She's a listener, Janet. She buys these hot dogs that her husband used to love that are bright red. Oh. And when you look at them, you're like, I can't eat that. I know that's so bad for me. Red hot. Then you eat it and it's the most delicious hot dog you've ever had. Girl, the next time we're in Detroit, we got to get a county dog. Oh, yeah. I've never had. It's been

to open my eyes to them and I'm like obsessed. It's just fucking this great chili and then mustard and onions on it and it's fucking legit. Wait. So you have a hot dog, you put chili on it and you also put mustard on it? Uh-huh. Hell yeah. It's so good. That's it. And it's a fucking mess and it's the best. I love it. I feel like I don't realize how much I like hot dogs. I don't let myself go. Let's do a hot dog of the episode. Steven wants to say something. I have a hot dog toaster. Should I bring it into the studio? Oh, you can make a whole. You can put the buns and the hot dogs in. I will bring it into the studio. We will make hot dogs. There's only one vegan here. That's fine, right? Oh my God. Danielle, sorry. We're having a hot dog toaster now. Danielle,

you don't run our hot dog lives. Steven, yes. Yes. You bring that fucking thing in. Next, we're going to end the next episode eating hot dogs. That's right. Oh my God. That's hilarious. That could be our fucking hooray, but I have a real one. Do you have a real one? I can have one, yes. It could be hot dogs. It's hot dog posters. I pretend like I've liked them all along. No, no. I already liked them. I liked them before your five-year-old friend did. Cartoon hot dogs are cool to socks with like cartoon hot dogs all over them. What is better than that? I had a saved picture of a cartoon hot dog that was doing something for a long time on my phone, but now I can't remember what it was. Was he putting another one hot dog statue that's putting

mustard and ketchup on itself? It's like really troubling. That's not good. It's like outside of like a Venice Beach hot dog place, and he's just like, here we go. Can you find that? We're running it on the Instagram this week. I have to find it. No, that's not good. It's troubling. Okay. That's like when it's a butcher shop and it's a picture of a smiling pig, and you're like, no, you wouldn't be. This is a lie. Everyone's lying. Legans hate us. Okay, so I am what's today the seventh? I am now seven days into dry January. Oh, how's it going? Successfully. I should say I'm successfully seven days. You're doing it. I'm doing it, and I'm shocked and I'm shocked at how kind of easy it's been and how many revelations I'm having and how much I've been

I'm enjoying it. Oh, good. I was so surprised by that part. So part of that is because I posted about it on like New Year's Day about dry January and a bunch of Instagram comments came up suggesting this person named Annie Grace, who's like an author and podcaster who talks about sobriety and how to do it. And you know, she does it in a different way. And so I downloaded her book called This Naked Mind. That's her like brand, This Naked Mind. And it's been eye-opening. Really? And I'm almost like, I might keep fucking doing this. Interesting. It's been really, really eye-opening and I and it's made this easy and fun. So I'm like really happy and weirdly proud of myself, but also realizing how much of an issue I've had the past 10 years. Yes. And it's been emotional. Well, congratulations.

That's very good. Yeah, this is, I mean, one or two days every once in a while is the most I've gone between drinks in the past like long time. Yeah. I hear that. Well, because it's easy. Yeah. It's casual. Yeah. It's automatic. Yes. It's an automatic thing for me. I mean, it's just a very effective tool for de-stressing, for kind of escaping, right, for all this stuff. So it's no wonder we rely on it. And of course. But then it like. And this goddamn Danny. Right. But then the way she's explaining it is like, it actually doesn't work. And here's why. Here's why it makes it worse. And here's why it's been interesting. Yes. And it's been nice waking up in the morning and I still try to remind myself like, you're not hungover. You can get up. It's, it's so nice.

That difference is kind of nice. Yeah. And that 3 a.m. wake up of like, not feeling shame and anger at myself for what I did the night before and guaranteeing I won't do it the next night and doing it again. And it's a depressant. Yeah. It's a depressant. Yeah. It works in the moment, but the long term effect, which is why so many things like that suck, whatever the substance is that that and and everyone's addicted to something in some way. But those things that you wrote that actually erode, you're going to them for good times and they actually erode your overall time. Man, that sucks. Totally. Because because you need something. Yeah. You know, I'm actually looking forward to seeing like what changes this month. So

and you don't have to be doing dry January or be sober or any of that shit to to listen to this book. Yeah. This naked mind. It's really helpful. I love it. It's also, it's nice to have some kind of guidepost when you're doing a new thing. Yeah. This is very weird for me and I'm enjoying it. Yeah, great. Yeah. That's good. That's a perfect attitude. It's like you're being an adventurer. Yeah. Adventurer about it as opposed like, I have to do this thing now. Right. That's good. Yeah. My what? No, I can't. Hot dogs. I sort of got her hot dogs. I will fucking high five you over this table. I've never, my thing is hot dog day from grammar school was my favorite. Did you have a hot dog day at your school? Not like specifically, but we'd have

hot dogs on the menu. Oh, right. Yeah. I went to school that didn't have a cafeteria. I mean, every day is hot dog day. If you try hard enough, you go to the right school. Okay, Richie Rich, I didn't realize. How about your fucking raise as hot dogs? I have cheese down them at all. Those are so gross. They're so good. They're gross. They're the best. This is where the hot dog debate begins in earnest. Here's my fucking hooray that I generally said that my Christmas trip was great, which it was, but I will say this specifically. And I know I talk about this shit so much, but it's just how it is. We had a Christmas Eve out at the beach, which was great with my cousin Stevie and his family, and which is basically our family.

And it was so fun and hilarious. And they made this great dinner. And it was just kind of in this beautiful area. And it and my aunt Jean was there who is used to be my mom's best friend. And it was very like, there was a time that honestly, and my sister and I even got to talk about it, which we normally don't get into deep shit. We just try not to. We've had so much deep shit that we're sick of it. But we had this great conversation because it was like, when you lose a loved one and in a bad way, it feels like life is never going to go back to normal, which it doesn't because that's because life never goes back to anything. You're a changed person. Right. And but but actually, all of life is progress and change.

And so there's no no one gets to experience a thing and then go back to a different time that it doesn't work that way. So don't hold that against yourself. And and but I think we just assumed it would always be this lower level, depressive kind of loss state. And this year especially, it was such a lovely, fun, light Christmas. Christmas Eve was that one. But the whole holiday was great that way. And we just we just kept talking about how how nice it is now. And that really is this new it just feels like a new time. Yeah. I don't know. It like a new time that that feeling we were just so convinced it would never happen. I feel like I've even said this exact thing before. But to it's so I think it's important to me to mark time to myself that

way. Because I can feel it's almost like coming up out of the grief well or whatever. Yeah. I can feel it kind of like, oh, yeah, that was so much better than it used to be. That was so much better than it used to be. Acknowledge the steps that you're taking. Yeah. And how how nice it's like life is really nice. Even when things are shitty, you can still and it's so cliche that there's no point in saying it, except that it's fucking true. You can find these things if you somehow develop the eye to be able to find them where it's like, it's the people that are gone will never come back. But there is a present moment that you can work on actively. So like my sister, like I tweeted this thing, my sister bought everybody chicken leg socks. Oh, yeah. I have a pair for you. There

and it's the dumbest thing and she found online. She's like, I saw it. I just thought it was funny. It was as if it was like the best thing that's ever happened in our family when Laura busted out these chicken leg socks. It was fucking hilarious. Everyone had them on. Everyone was posing with them on. Yeah. No one could stop laughing for like 15 minutes. It was just so fun. And it was, I would just remember sitting there and going, this is like be in this now because these are these moments that you thought were just gone forever, which nothing works that way. And you can find these spots of lovely joy in things and then grow them and basically kind of make them start taking over. I love that. Yeah. How's that? How's that? Beautiful and hot dogs and hot dog pictures.

Hot dog pictures. Cartoon hot dogs. Condimenting themselves. Sorry. I think the picture I was thinking of was it was actually a banana that was hugging a banana. That's not the same thing. That's a vegan hot dog. I'm just talking about all phallic foods and the cartoons I've seen in them in the past. We love it all. We love it. We love you guys. Thank you for listening for your 2020. Coming up on four years. Four years. We appreciate you. We like you. We like you so much. Your friends. Thanks for being quiet during all of our conversations. Right. We know you're listening. We appreciate you're not interrupting. That's right. And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. 2020. Elvis, do you want a cookie?