My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 207 - Not Enough Ednas

Episode Date: January 30, 2020

Karen and Georgia cover the Fairbanks Four and the Dixmoor Five cases and the Pillowcase Rapist.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. It's podcast. Where'd Karen go? Did you hear that? Did you hear it? Did you hear your teeth on the microphone? No, I did a weird inhale forward slash suck in some kind of a it's not like there's snot in there was a sucking noise saliva sound I keep step up there saline solutions tucked up from the sea cotton balls you never know nail polish remover and a and an

emery board just shoved up into my navel nasal navel cavity Jesus that's definitely Karen Kilgara and we are having a hell of a time here in Southern California here in Southern California. We can blame it on the Santa Ana winds that came today. That's right. There were crazy winds last night and it makes everything a little spooky and a little one hour and 15 minutes late. Oh guys, I just pulled one. No, everything is good. We're here. We have our sparkling waters. Stephen is to our right and left. Yeah, which is great for us. Yeah, Stephen is all around. Stephen kind of yeah, he's on an omnipresent right left all all around. You keep dipping out this episode. Something's happening with my what I like to call my instrument. I'm like the

instrument. I'm like a trumpet that a seventh grade boy plays where there's so much spit. Oh, the smell. You did you not do your podcasting warm ups? I didn't do my podcast, neti pot. I didn't I didn't rinse well or my fault. Yeah, you got to do them them podcast warm ups that everyone knows so well. Me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me is actually the perfect podcast warm up. I think because I me me me me with you. Oh, I'm almost done with dry January. Yes, I have two days of non dry January. Okay, you dipped out a jet dry January. Yeah, two days two different days not two days in a row. Great. You know, dealing with that, but it's fine. Now, was it a binge like did you end up down by the LA River? No, unfortunately,

nothing's on and I had two glasses of wine with you last night. Yeah, that was pretty great. And your dad we party. Yeah, was there. Jim was there. And then one other night that I had an event it was both around like things. Yeah, and it just feels better to be drinking at them because I hate it's so hard to talk to people 100%. But you know, I didn't feel great about it. And I felt like shit the next day. So it's, you know, teaching me that it's not something I really want in my life. Well, good. And I would say it also brings that, you know, what I found when I was drinking is that my tolerance for my hangover was out of I could, I could destroy my body and be like, it's fine. I'll have a bag. I'll be fine later. And I think once then you cut it out. And

then when you come back, it's like two glasses of wine and you feel it. I told you exactly. And I feel like I've been ignoring it. And I've been thinking that's my normal every day. Like I just am tired all the time and have like a low level flu. And really, it's like, no, you've just been drinking all the time. Yeah, it's ruining your body. Right. Yeah, I feel so much better. Awesome. So you're going to you're going to round out dry January. I'm just gonna keep going good as I was going, you know, drinks here and there when it when it calls for it. Right. Yeah. But for most, but mostly, I mean, I think that's the way to do it too is like, it's whatever you're trying to do, it's your business, first of all, it's like how you want to do it

is your journey. Yeah, if I may. Thank you. I've been waiting all month for you to tell me that this is a journey. It's a journey and it's your journey. So me, me, me, me, me. It's a difficult thing as we everyone knows, with anything that you, we all have our things and that we use. Yeah. And to just put them down. Yeah. Very difficult. I mean, it's taken me five years to take a month minus two days off. So it's, you know, so you're actually numbers wise. That's, I think that's a solid A. Thank you. Numbers wise. Okay. I'm a numbers person. I'm a math person. A minus. Yeah. I never got those grades in high school. Right. So this is great. So welcome to the fucking honor society. Did I get $5? Is it $5 for every A? Yes. So I'll give you $10. Okay.

And that's incentive. Thank you. And that goes to my next drink. That goes to just gave me money for alcohol. And then you're buying super cheap alcohol so you can get more for it. It's only five dollars. Fireball. Fireball. Just get a thing of fireball. Fireball. Okay. Moving on to news portion. Oh, I have some news about it's a stay sexy event. So this tattoo parlor called which of the woods tattoo they're in Missoula, Montana. Thank you. That's where Chris Fairbanks is. Oh, right. It's the only reason I know. So they're doing a tattooing event where there's going to be a bunch of my favorite murder flash tattoo by a bunch of different tattoo artists. It does flash tattoo mean they do it as fast as they

can. No, it means you're like, I want you to pick off the wall. Oh, great. It's not like you have this is my mother's signature type of shit. No, no, no. I think that's right. I'm not a tattoo artist anymore. So I wouldn't know. But please come back to the fold. So which of the woods tattoo on February 5th is doing a tattooing nails tarot card like event and the money that they make is going to go to make your move Missoula, which and make your move is a nonprofit that does stuff like consent education and sexual violence prevention. So I think that's really awesome. Beautiful. Love it. That's very cool. Thanks, you guys. Thanks. It's which of the woods is the name of the tattoo parlor. That's right. And you can find them on Instagram. I feel

like excited to be associated with any business called the which of the woods. Yeah, that's right. Absolutely down. One of us. I'm also a witch in the woods. That's right. Use your hashtag MFM tattoo, everyone, because that's how we see your tattoos. Oh, and then we can see we can see the results. Yeah, the events. Yeah, we can post them. That's very cool. Well, the thing I was going to mention is we we talked last week about how fascinating snow is. Yeah, all that. It's so made fun of for people in the Midwest and other snowy areas. There was somebody that wrote, and I can't find it right now, but somebody just wrote, I don't even I've never been seen an ice pick. What are you talking about? I live in the snow and I've never even looked at a nice picture.

It's so funny. And then apparently in Newfoundland, there was or St. John's, there was a blizzard where I saw this sped up footage that was like from a nest cam and you just watch the snow go all the way up to the to the like overhang roof. No, it looked like they had 10 feet of snow. It was crazy. And so apparently this blizzard, people were like a snowboarding and skiing in the street and like it turned into like fun times because no one could do anything. Yeah, we got a lot of pictures sent about that. Thanks, guys. It was really nice. You know, educated us about snow because we need to dumb Southern California girls. I'm kind of heartbroken that they killed off Mr. Peanut. That's sad, but that's my personal. I told you that story.

You're doing this week. I'm covering it. Everyone's saying that the advertising company did it like for a promotion. It was a murder. Oh, and I'm here to tell you about it. Tell me. Okay. So this person with a peanut allergy. No, sorry. In crossover news. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We are going to be on Murder Squad next week. Yeah. February 3rd. Yeah. Talking about what did we talk about? The staircase. That's right. That was good. That was really fun. Paul Holes talks a lot in it and he's great. You know, the thing about Paul Holes is he knows what he's talking about and being around that is really nice. Yeah. It's really, that was not passive aggression toward you, but no. Oh, fuck you. Yes, it was. No, I think it was. No. But what I, but at one point,

he says a thing that I think is like an Easter egg worth listening to. So you can just hear it for yourself. I don't want to spoiler it. Yeah. That has the ability to reignite the hot for Holes movement because he is the real deal. He is. It was really cool just to be able to be like, speculation, speculation, speculation. What do you think Paul Holes and then get the answer to it? Yes. Not more speculation. Not more speculation. It's like here's science and, and experience. And how the law works. Goodbye. Yeah. And goodbye. Look, nothing against Billy Jensen. He's a gem as well. Billy Jensen's holding it all down. Billy Jensen is, provides the stage for which Paul Holes can then come in and hold it down on his own. No, no, no, no. Yeah. It was really fun.

It was great. It's a good episode. If you should check it out. Murder Squad. Murder Squad. They know what they're doing over there. That's the tagline. Murder Squad. They know what they're doing. They know what they're doing over there on Mondays. Gestures randomly points to the wall. Are we, are we first or are they first? I think it's we. Do you mean you as we? No. When you say they, do you mean you? No. I think it's you this week. Is it me? Okay, Stephen says yes. It's me this week. That goes first. So it is we. It is. So it is they. It's the royal eye. Are we okay? Is there a gas leak in this office? Is the question. Guys, it's been quite a day. It sure has. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning,

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everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Aresha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wanderer's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series,

Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. Tell me a story, Georgia. Let me tell you a story. Let me tell you two stories. Okay, I mean, I guess I have the time. It's short, but I mean, it's two stories of wrongful conviction. Nice. Okay. Yes. And high time. And about fucking time. Yeah. This first one is the story of the Fairbanks 4. Oh, Alaska. Uh-huh. No, Chris Fairbanks. So this one's kind of still ongoing and wrapping up right now. And I've been seeing a lot of news about it. So I thought like, let's get into it.

Yes. And I got information from the National Registry of Exonerations, the Pacific Standard Website article by Elizabeth Fairfield Stokes, a Newsweek article by Josh Sal and a Daily Beast article by Kate Brickolette. At 2.15 in the morning on October 11, 1997, in Fairbanks, Alaska, a passerby notices a body that's lying half on the sidewalk, half in the street unconscious, and he calls 911. Brutally beaten and unconscious. As I just said, a local news station shows the victims badly beaten face on a broadcast because they don't know who it is and they need to identify him. Okay. And two of this person's closest friends freak out when they recognize that it's their friend. It's 15-year-old John Hartman, a well-liked high school

student from Fairbanks. John dies later that day at the Fairbanks Memorial Hospital. Horrible. Yeah. So the night of John Hartman's fatal attack, a wedding is happening in town, 17-year-old Eugene Vent, who had been partying at their wedding reception earlier that night, is the first suspect to be picked up. And it's because the wedding after party was broken up by police and he's brought in for questioning after a witness at the party said that he saw Vent with a gun, which is a fact that he later tried and acquitted for. So it's not even true. Okay. When he's brought in for questioning, Vent's blood alcohol level is 0.158 percent, which is twice Alaska's legal limit. Yeah. And he waives his right to speak to an attorney or

his mother because he's drunk. How drunk is that? So what's our legal limit here? .08. So how many drinks is that about, do you know? I would say he maybe had a six-pack. That's my own professional, but yet alcoholic guess. Okay. I think one five-something is pretty high. Yeah. That's high. It's high. Yeah. Utilizing the read technique, which is a now discredited interrogation approach, that has been proven to lead to false confessions, especially when it's used on minors, Detective Aaron Ring aggressively interrogates the young man for hours before he finally caves and names his high school basketball teammates from before and school friends as his accomplices.

So it's Eugene Vent, who's admitting to it yet, as well as Kevin Pease, who's 19, George Fries, who's 21, and 19-year-old Marvin Roberts. Okay. And they become known as the Fairbanks Four. Okay. So George Fries had visited the emergency room for foot pain the day after the murder, telling the doctor that he had drunkenly kicked someone the night before but can't remember much else. That's the problem with when you party and then something bad happens and people go, oh, you may have done it. Yeah. Or just like, yeah, you could have. Well, you can understand why those dots would be connected. Sure. You know? So investigators take Fries's boot, which authorities later present as evidence. Meanwhile, authorities tell Marvin Roberts

that his car's tires match skid marks left near the scene, and they play a recording event statement implicating him in the crime. So they're like, someone already admitted that you did this. Roberts is the high school valedictorian, and he insists on his innocence and repeats over and over again that he wasn't even there. Still, police had their motive. It was a group of friends on a joyride, and it was a robbery gone wrong. The murder of Hartman and the resulting investigation and trial totally divides the town of Fairbanks. Hartman was white, and the Fairbanks Four are indigenous peoples identifying culturally as Athabaskan. Fairbanks already has racial tensions due to the Alaskan native peoples being forced to adjust and assimilate during decades

of an influx of white people. Yeah. Having no actual physical evidence against the Fairbanks Four, police and prosecutors, they fabricate a boot impression and show that it matches the marks on Hartman's bruised body. Sorry, what year is this? 91. Jesus. Nope. Sorry. 97. Oh, my God. Like too recent. Yeah, I really wanted you to say 70. Oh, I know. Sorry. That sucks. So it happens a lot. Yeah. So in an affidavit, a forensic expert calls the state's exhibit extremely misleading and a misrepresentation. But the second key piece of evidence is a supposed eyewitness who, despite having been drinking for hours that day, smoking pot, snorting coke, the night of the murders, he testifies that he saw the four defendants attack the victim.

And in court, he admits he couldn't see the suspect's faces since he was 550 feet away. Oh, my God. Right. That's very far. It's quite far. How many beers is that far away? That's like 16 beers away. Yeah. But he identifies them through their profiles and haircuts. Yeah, dude, no. Meanwhile, Marvin Roberts has an airtight alibi. Several people who are credible witnesses testified that they saw him at that wedding on the dance floor or giving people rides home around the time of Hartman's attack. Instead, the prosecutor claims that the Alaskan natives are lying for each other and that he compares them to the slaves conspiring against their owners in the film Spartacus. Oh, my God. Can you fucking believe that? Your honor, I object to this intense

disrespect. Wow. It's just insulting to those witnesses who are coming forward to defend. Well, and also this is all going on record. Yeah. Like this, I feel like that's a thing maybe that's coming that's becoming more real now because the digital age, everything is permanent and everything's public and everything's online or whatever. But it just like you can and they have done this in little towns where it's like we control reality. Yeah. But that ain't it. No. You can't just say everyone's a liar. Right. So that you can get your stuff done on time. Totally. Totally. Horrifying. In 1999, they're all found guilty. George Fries is sentenced to 40 years in prison. Eugene Vendt is sentenced to 38 years. Marvin Roberts is sentenced to 33 years and Kevin

Pease is sentenced to 60 years in prison. Unbelievable. In 2008, after more than seven years of investigating the case, Brian O'Donoghue, he's a former reporter for the Fairbanks Daily News Minor who was a journalist professor at the University of Alaska Fairbanks. He publishes a series of articles in the newspaper that strongly suggests that the Fairbanks for are innocent. The series draws on years of reporting by O'Donoghue's students, which like what a f***ing incredible case. He's like, guess what? You're actually going to learn something? Right. You're really going to do something here. Takes a f***ing textbook and tears it in half. It's like, everyone, this s***, get rid of it. Everyone tear your book in half. You guys, you guys figure

out reality. That's right. The students had looked into the case during a journalism class, which is like, oh my God. Based on the articles, the Alaska Innocence Project starts reinvestigating the case. And in 2013, so in 1999 is when they were convicted. And 2013, after contacting dozens of witnesses, attorneys for the project filed a post-conviction motion on behalf of the defendants seeking a new trial. They claimed that someone named William Holmes, he's a former drug dealer serving a life sentence in California for murder. And four of his friends are actually responsible for Hartman's murder. This guy, William Holmes, according to the motion, admits that he was the driver of a car containing the men who killed Hartman. Oh my God. So they got that guy actually

saying it. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. So state authorities said they remained confident that peas, vent, Roberts and freeze were guilty, but agreed to reinvestigate the case based on the new evidence. Oh, thank you. Wow. So on December 18, 2015, the prosecution reaches an agreement with the attorneys for the defendants under which they have to. So here's what's f***ing crazy. They're like, okay, we admit that this doesn't look good for us. The only way they can get out of prison is that they sign something that says they waive any claims to compensation, meaning they can't sue in the future. They all have to sign it. One of them is already out on parole. And he has, if he doesn't sign it, none of them get out. So he's like, I'm f***ed. Yeah. So they all sign this thing

saying, yes, we promise we won't sue you, which just shows you how much the city knows that they f***ed up. Right. They know this thing's coming. So they're just trying to protect themselves. It's like admitting that. So they all sign this claim and all the convictions are vacated and the charges are dismissed. So freeze, vent and peace are then released. Roberts had already been released on parole. And in 2018, of course, all four men file a federal lawsuit challenging the agreement to waive compensation so they can rightfully sue for a wrongful conviction. Beautiful. That lawsuit is dismissed on October 22nd, 2018. The one that when they're like, they're trying to get rid of that and it gets f***ing dismissed. But wait, and here's what's going on right now. Okay. The

Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals reinstates the lawsuit in January of 2020 this f***ing month. Yes. That's why I've been reading so much about it. Okay. So they're like, sorry, dude, you can totally f***ing... Yes. You can take it to court to potentially sue for that. Right. So after 18 years behind bars, Kevin Pease says that at least their case has opened a lot of eyes to violations, civil, criminal, police misconduct, and that hopefully this story will help prevent a future exoneree or future wrongfully convicted person from having to take the deal that they took. Yes. Which is a f***ing dirty deal. Right. While the four Fairbanks men are now free, the pursuit of justice for John Hartman has totally fallen by the wayside. John's father has died,

his siblings have tried to move on with their lives, and the state can't really pursue it because as far as they're concerned, they had the right people all along. Which is kind of... There's so many shitty and horrifying elements to wrongful convictions in that way. Yeah. But that part is especially evil because what they're saying is we don't have to actually find the killer. Right. Because we've pinned it on these people and no, and shut up because we're done. Right. And we still think it's them. So if we're not going to, you know, with any meaningful way, investigate this all over again, because we don't think it's anyone else. So of course you're not going to like pay attention to the details. But we don't think that because we've decided not to think it,

not because of what the evidence is telling us. Right. That's what I hate. Yeah. Okay. Here's another one. Okay. Right. So we're so basically, we're waiting to see if they are hopefully going to get compensated for being wrongfully convicted. And we also want to see the people who actually killed John Hartman get justice served. Yeah. Against them. Yeah. That's what I mean. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Wow. That's a huge kind of like... Because mostly we hear about, you know, missing and murdered indigenous women and what a humongous and totally barely looked into issue that is. Right. But this like, that it's just like, yeah, marginalized people. Yeah. This happens them all the time. Yeah. Here's another story of that. This is the Dixmore Five. So we had four and now

we have five. Now we have five. I got info from the National Registry for Exonerations, a Chicago Tribune article by Steve Mills and Todd Lighty and the Chicago Suntimes. Dixmore, Illinois. Okay. It's a suburb about 30 minutes outside of Chicago. And it's completely shaken when on November 19th, 1991, a 14 year old girl named Catrisa Matthews vanishes from a bus stop while on her way home from her grandmother's house. And she's just this young middle school girl. Catrisa is missing for 20 days when her body is found on December 8th, 1991, in a field running along the I-57 in Dixmore. She had been raped and she had been killed by a single gunshot from a 24 caliber gun to her in her mouth. It's awful. State and local police had no significant

leads in the case until 10 months later when someone tells police that he had seen Catrisa getting into a car with some local boys. So Jonathan Barr, Robert Taylor and Robert Lee Veal, they're all 14 at the time. Shane Sharp and Jason Harden were 16. So some 14 year olds and 16 year olds are brought in. On October 29, 1992, police bring in 14 year old Robert Lee Veal for questioning. After more than five hours of interrogation without his parents or council, Veal signs a handwritten statement implicating himself, Harden, Taylor, Sharp and Barr in the rape and murder. So it's very much parallel to the Fairbanks. It's these fucking confessions, these false confessions that I feel like people are finally realizing are very easy to course,

especially out of minors. And after a long period of time. Yeah. The pattern is the same. Right, exactly. So later that same day, Robert Taylor also signs a statement also outside the presence of his parents or council implicating himself and all four others in the crime. So it's not just one, it's two so far. Two days later, after more than 21 hours in custody, Sharp also signs a handwritten statement implicating himself and the others. Like if out of five people, three of them confess to it falsely, you've got some big issues inside of your department. Well, and also just for that case, you have there's so much work to do to go backwards out of that. Right. I mean, like stressing me out. A wrongful conviction, man, it is so upsetting. It's so

stressful. I think it's everyone's fear. Totally. I mean, it really is when, when, when no one is with you, when no one is advising you, you have no, there's no one to help you. Yeah. And then the authorities that are there are hell bent on. They have their beliefs and they are not going to rest and they are, you know, they're smart people who, who've been doing this for a long time. And they, if they, yeah, they're, something's telling them that it's you, they're not going to accept any other answer. In June 1994, while the 50-way to trial, the state police crime lab tests the DNA from semen recovered from the scene. They find that the profile identifies zero of the five teens, but actually comes from a lone male, a totally different

lone male. The police in Cook County State's attorney office are like, let's not worry about that right now and proceed with the prosecution based on the three confessions, even though the confessions contradicted each other regarding facts about the case. So they don't even have to fucking line up, you know? Yeah. No one has their story, story straight, which is a problem. Right. So Vile and Sharp plead guilty to first degree murder and receive 20 year sentences with parole available after seven years because they pled guilty in exchange. And they do that in exchange for agreeing to testify against Hardin, Taylor and Barr. So basically they got the deal. Right. They were the first ones to accept this deal, you know, which is, I hate that too. Or

it's like, if you rat this other person out first, you get a better deal than they do for no fucking reason. It's, it's dirty business. It is very dirty. Hardin and like, it's like, don't take someone, don't take someone to trial unless you have enough to prosecute them against a side from one of the admitted, you know, other participants saying they're involved. Does that make any sense? It does. I know it's not always like that. It's not always perfect. And this has probably been a way to get some people behind bars who totally deserve to be there. But you can't cheat. You can't cheat if you're the cops. You can't cheat if you're the authority. You can't do it that way. And that's the way the ideal version of the justice system was set up, is that you,

it's innocent until proven guilty. And that's the upsetting thing to me is it feels like being a fan of true crime and reading these stories. There's so many stories we hear where there's psycho white serial killers. When they get brought to court, there's one piece of evidence that's like a little janky. And so suddenly the case is dismissed or whatever. We've heard those stories where it's like, there wasn't enough evidence. We couldn't prosecute him. And then suddenly it's like, we've got the one piece of evidence that basically we had control over. And that's going to get us through because these are people of color. Right. So Hardin and Taylor are tried together and they receive 80 years in prison.

Bars tried separately. He's convicted and sentenced to 85 years in prison. All of their appeals are denied, including a post-conviction request for additional DNA testing. In August 2009, Hardin, Taylor and Bars pro bono attorneys, Tara Thompson of the University of Chicago Exoneration Project and the Center on Wrongful Convictions of Youth and a Chicago attorney, Jennifer Blagg, together with a New York based innocence project renewed the effort to obtain new DNA testing. Innocence project. Cook County Circuit Court Judge Michelle Simmons ordered the testing. She's like, great, let's get some more DNA testing. But for more than a year, the Dixmore police claimed that they were unable to locate the evidence. They're like,

we can't find it. We don't know where it is. So they claim they can't find the evidence and then Judge Simmons orders them to allow the defendant's attorney to inspect the department's evidence storage areas. They're like, then here we fucking come. And they're like, oh, abracadabra, the police are like, we found the evidence. What a coincidence. So now these law enforcement people that were involved in this kind of cover up he feels are getting muscled the way they muscled the children that they had in custody. One of my most, one of the most infuriating things to me is when evidence gets lost, whether it's not, whether or not it's like purposeful, like this seems to be allegedly allegedly or when there's like a, you know, the fire that destroys it. I mean,

it drives me fucking crazy. Right. Because it's so much work to collect it. It's so much work. And there's answers there. It matters. It matters so much. Yeah. So on in March 2011, the new testing fails again to link any of the teens to the crime. And instead, after the DNA profiles run through CODIS, it matches a sex offender named Willie Randolph. Wow. Who at the time of the crime, he's a he's a 33 year old sex offender. He lived in the victim's neighborhood and was on parole after serving a 20 year sentence for armed robbery. Jesus. I feel like when there's a sex crime, they look for the sex, they look into the sex offenders in the area first, right? That's kind of a thing. Not if you can pull in five teenagers

that have no probably no money or like juice to get defended. Totally. On November 3, 2011, the state's attorney's office dismissed all charges against the defendants after they served. It was like 10 to 19 years each. They had already all served in prison respectively for a crime they hadn't committed. In 2014, the Illinois state police agrees to pay 40 million. Holy shit. The largest group settlement in the state at the time to the Dixmore five. Yeah. Peter Newfield, the attorney representing one of the wrongfully convicted men said, quote, what you have here in Cook County is an epidemic, an epidemic of false confessions of juveniles, primarily people of color. So in August, 2016, more than five years after the DNA tests were completed, which is

insane. Very frustrating. Randolph is finally charged with murder, kidnapping, and the predatory sexual assault of Catrisa Matthews, Cook County state's attorney. This is insane. Anita Alvarez. So she had been forced under public pressure to lift the convictions initially and to create a conviction integrity unit to save face suggested that it was possible that someone had raped the victim after the exonerated boys had killed killed her to account for the DNA. Let it fucking go. Can't let it go. That this fucking sexual predator stumbled along after the Dixmore five had killed her. And then he was also a necrophilia. Yeah. That was her excuse. They all did it. Come on, guys. Yeah, she would not let it go. But she did offer, quote, sincere apologies to the men

and their families. She says that the system did not protect them and victimize them in a way that can never possibly be repaired. No shit. But she argued that reforms have been implemented, quote, to ensure that no person is wrongfully convicted. Let's hope. Let's hope. Also, there's a chance. Let's just try to be fair sometimes that she was told to say that in like that basically you need to simultaneously defend law enforcement while still giving right or for legal reasons too. Yeah, for whatever. Just kind of like you have to throw something out there that justifies the fact that we, you know, we did our best to destroy children's lives. Totally. At Randolph's trial, Catrice's mother, Teresa Matthews, this poor fucking woman, she's went

through all of their trials in the Dixmore five and now has to go through another trial. No. Yeah, and sit through this entire thing. Teresa Matthews, she sat up front saying, quote, I want to see his face. I thank God it's happening because I just want justice for my child. She had dreams. She wanted to be somebody in life. And that is the story of the Dixmore five and the murder of Catrice Matthews. Wow. I know. Teresa must be an incredibly strong person. Absolutely. Because that also she has to be there to witness what's happening to these boys. Right. So she already has the complete life destroying heartbreak of losing her daughter. And then because of that loss, these boys have this loss. And she thinks for years that they did it. They're behind bars

and then suddenly has to get this. I'm sure life altering news that that it's possible the wrong people are there when she probably believed firmly in her heart that they had done it and have to come having to come terms with that and all the trust. Yeah. Jesus. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Amazing. Thank you. Those are I'm so glad to know about both of those stories. Crazy. I've been reading about it. I mean, it's just bananas. Yeah. It's interesting that you did basically a topical because mine's topical too. Is it? Yes, it is. And that's why I had Jay call and ask you what yours was because I was afraid it would overlap. Wait, does this have to do with lions? Okay. Never mind. No. You mean the live action Lion King that came out last year? Yes. I'm basically

doing a live reading of the script and I'm singing all the songs. Okay. No, I'm going to cover the very recently reemerging case of the pillowcase rapist of Southern Florida. Oh, this is a good one DNA DNA. It's all DNA. And it was suggested by Vanessa. Her Twitter handle is at Vanessa underline Kelly and she was like, are you seeing this? Do you see what I see? Right? We love those. Vanessa's are very, what are they? Humble. I don't know. They're humble and they're usually Scorpios. Yeah. So thanks Vanessa. What's cool about this also kind of like parallel, the majority of the information in what I'm about to read you, but also in everything I looked up, the source was always always came back to this Miami Herald reporter of the time in the 80s named

Edna Buchanan. She was the crime beat reporter for the Miami Herald in the 80s and she got on this case and was all about it and she eventually won a Pulitzer for her reporting for the crime beat at the Miami Herald. Not enough Edna's anymore. Not enough Edna's and also because I was thinking I had her in my mind like she was from the 40s. I'm like, but that's the 80s. Well, the 80s had the 40s come back thing. I guess it did. So shoulder pads and stuff. Edna, she did like that grandma drag that I love so much in the 80s where you just get like an old vintage house dress and some big clumpy shoes. Hi, it's me. Yeah. Hi. This is my style. I'm Edna. I'm your grandma. So anyway, Edna kick ass reporter. Essentially, I was trying to make this go chronologically,

but every quote I had and every piece of information, it was like it would all come back to the same article. Okay. So I will. So the majority of this is Edna Buchanan's reporting. Edna Buchanan's reporting. But there's also information from the New York Times, Washington Post, AP News and CNN because it is a what we might call breaking news story. Reanimated. Yes, that's right. Okay. So sometime in 1978, maybe 1979, it's still vague. But a woman named Jill Trent, who's in her mid twenties, she lives in a duplex in West Palm, Florida. And she wakes up one night, there's an intruder in her apartment. And he wraps her head in a pillowcase. He threatens her with a sharp object that she can't see. He very calmly and

quietly tells her to shut up, which I find very disturbing. Totally. He rapes her and then he leaves. And she of course reports the crime to the police. They start an investigation. But of course, she can't tell them what he looked like. And he barely spoke. And he was very fastidious about not leaving any trace behind. So they had nothing. And meanwhile, every time Jill goes back home to her apartment, she relives it. And of course, it's just so much trauma. So she decides to move in with her sister for a while. God bless sisters. And eventually she starts to get back on her feet. But of course, every time the investigators call with like an update or a question, she's right back in. She eventually decides to move to Washington state.

And she basically just avoids any criminal news reports that come out of Florida. Sure. And no arrests is ever made in her case. And she basically all but gives up hope that anything that anything will until last week. Am I right? Jill told the Miami Herald. I felt like somebody punched me in right in the chest. I couldn't breathe. I couldn't talk. My husband thought I was having a heart attack. I finally got the words out. I think that's him. Oh my God. And it brought it all back. You'd think after 40 years, it'd be gone. But it's not. Of course it's not. I have chills. So Jill's attack would end up being the first in a series of horrifying rapes that would continue through the 80s and into the 90s by an attacker who

was so mysterious and there was so little information about him that everyone just called him the pillowcase rapist. Okay. That's such a long period of time to be active. There's a lot of parallels in the story to Golden State Killer. It's the same feeling and you can all go see his, there's video of him in his first like the preliminary trial. And he's just an old, he looks a lot like Joseph D'Angelo, but he's not playing the old feeble man card. He is wearing a boltproof vest though. Oh, is he scared? I think they have to put it on people like that because it's high profile and people are fucking pissed. Like people pay attention. Okay, so we're back in the 80s. It's May 1st, 1981. An intruder breaks into the home of a 24-year-old

secretary at the, I'm guessing it's pronounced a lesion or a lesion. But who knows what an apartment complex is pronounced like in 1981? That's true. I couldn't find the database. They had some wild apartment names back then. In Florida. Are you kidding me? So she lives at this apartment complex in Doral. I didn't look the name of the pronunciation. That sounds right. That one up either. It's just west of Miami. Okay. Gotta be Doral. It must be. Okay, so this attacker covers this woman's face with a pillowcase and rapes her. She can't give the police a clear description of him. There's almost no evidence from the scene. And there will be four more rapes in the same apartment building over the next year. No. All with the same MO.

That's the free, like that is some targeted, terrifying shit. Yes. This man is close by and he is stalking and planning and it's horrifying. You just hope that like after one of these incidents, there'd be more security at this apartment building. Yeah. Or after the third one. Right. Yeah. Okay. So, but it does go to this man was incredibly, he planned. The predator later say they think he's spending 10 to 12 hours a day like surveilling and stalking these women. Holy shit. It's like his full time job. Yeah. So, okay. Then a few days before Christmas, a year later, a woman is wrapping gifts in her Fort Lauderdale home when an intruder appears. He holds a knife to her back. He wraps her head in a pillowcase and he rapes her.

In the middle of this attack, her roommate comes home, sees what's happening, grabs a pair of scissors and chases him off. Yay. Yes. But of course, they report the incident to the police, but neither are able to give a good description of the man. They couldn't see him. All these stories are very similar in July. And that woman chooses to the first two choose to remain anonymous. In July of 1983, a 20 year old art student named Marianne Ritter is attacked in her coconut grove apartment. An intruder breaks in through an opening underneath a window. He grabs her, forces her into the bathroom, rapes her at knife point, and this time his face is wrapped in the pillowcase. No. Horrifying. She has a roommate. Marianne has

a roommate, but her roommate slept through the entire attack, which is horrible for everybody. Totally. Horrible. And like the victims before her, she's unable to provide a description. On December of his face, I should say. On December 28, 1983, a 25 year old woman identified as just Evie, the initials Evie. She's in her Miami day department when the pillowcase rapist breaks in. When she screams, he puts a hand over her mouth, knocks her to the ground, he then stabs her in the abdomen with what they believe was an ice pick. Oh, yeah. And he threatens to kill her if she doesn't stop screaming. So she does. He forces her into the bedroom. He covers her face with a blanket and then a pillow and rapes her. When she tells him she can't breathe,

he quietly tells her to shut up. It's one of the only things he says to his victims. Creepy. Okay. So by February of 1985, authorities realized they have a serial rapist and a very dangerous one on their hands. They're nowhere close to catching him. He doesn't leave evidence. They can't, you know, no one can describe him. So they set up a task force of 50 investigators. And it's headed by a man named detective Dave Simmons. So, and at the time, Dave Simmons is 35. So Simmons and his team hold a press conference to go public with everything that they know. And basically they say this intruder, this rapist is targeting young professional women in their 20s or 30s who usually are single. Most of them have lived alone and in condos,

townhouses, and apartments. He stalks them beforehand as the behavior reflects of him knowing about them and that they will be alone if they do have roommates. And he finds their way in usually through an unlocked door or window, usually ties them, covers either their face, his face or both with a pillowcase or a piece of material and then threatens them with a sharp object. So scary. No, that's going on in your town. It's so violent. It's so, yeah. It's so horrifying. Okay. So now we, Miami Herald reporter Edna Buchanan, she covers this hunt for the rapist with what is referred to as a quote, a particular tenacity. Yeah, girl. She's good at what she does. And then she's like, yeah, this is, I'm assuming. She's like, this is what I'm in this

for. Yeah. So she writes an article covering this press conference that the police hold on February 24th, 1985 about this case, because basically the police were, you know, basically said, we have to go to the public and ask for their help because this just keeps happening. We can't let it continue this way. So they hold a very comprehensive press conference. And so I'm going to read you the article that Edna wrote at like basically from attending that press conference. It's a police ask for help in finding pillowcase rapist. After nearly four years of investigation, Metro Dade police went public Saturday with their most frustrating case, the pillowcase rapist. Since 1981, the pillowcase rapist, a young athletic white American has stuck career woman in upper

middle class apartment complexes from South Miami to Deerfield Beach. He's raped at least 39 women. Holy fucking shit. So by the time police go public, because clearly they're just pressed, this is how many women have been raped, at least, but probably more. Edna wrote that. The latest one was Tuesday, yet police can find no one who has seen his face after 39 incidences. It's methodical. It's methodical. It is. It's psychotic. Police can find no one who's seen his face. It's always covered, often with a towel, a hood, or even his own t-shirt. He's not invisible, Detective Sergeant Christine Acrow said, but he might as well be. Among his victims are school teachers, nurses, airline attendants, an artist, model, an engineer,

a health spawn instructor, insurance executive, publicist, and student. They all range from age 17 to 43. All are slender and attractive. Only one lives in a single family house. All others live in apartments, townhouses, or condos. On several occasions, the rapist has returned to the home of the victim weeks later. Almost always, he enters the victim's apartment through an unlocked sliding glass door or open window. As many as 100 detectives at a time have been assigned to the case, the investigation has cost taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars and police thousands of hours. The crimes has sparked, and this is an indication of the year that we're in, an index card list of nearly 300 suspects, all of whom, this is pre-computers,

all of whom have been eliminated as possibility. So they had to investigate, you know, interview, and then dismiss 300 suspects. Wow. None of that is in the article. Elaborate surveillance in which police moved victims out of their apartments, replacing them with police women who physically resemble the rapist targets. Wow. Hundreds of strategy sessions among law enforcement agencies in Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties. Civic condo and crime watch meetings with warnings to thousands of tenants in large apartment complexes. Half a dozen civil lawsuits by outraged victims suing their landlords for lack of security. The use of state and FBI resources to no avail. Police have established certain physical facts about the rapist. His shoe size

is 10 and a half. His blood type is common. It's O, but has rare and identifiable subgrouping characteristic found only in 1% of the population. He's a screeter. He's a screeter. And also, that's like, this is the pre-DNA thing where they're like, oh, wait, we found a subgroup, right? That's, that's all they have. That's all you got. Sexually, he frequently is unable to maintain an erection. He is probably somewhere between his mid 20s and early 30s, white American with no accent. He is five foot eight to 11 inches tall, about 170 pounds with a slim muscular build and fair skin. He often is well tanned. His hair is dirty blonde or medium brown. He's clean and neat and wears jeans, a t-shirt and sneakers. His hands are not rough or calloused. I feel as though

I know him Metro Sergeant David Simmons, chief investigator in the case says he is the cleverest rapist I've ever investigated and definitely the most prolific in Dade County history. Wow. Police have revisited the 39 victims they know about and they have encouraged them to move. Yeah. Quote, we're telling them there's a possibility he'll be back. Simmons says five weeks after one rape, he returned to the victim's apartment. She was not there. He masturbated on her lingerie. Laboratory tests established the identification as have tests for the 38 other victims. When the same victim took a hot shower one day, three weeks later, the steam made visible and obscene message. No. The rapist had scrawled with his fingertip on her bathroom mirror. Oh, nightmare. Uh-huh.

On Edgewater Drive in Coral Gables, he raped a woman in a fashionable high-rise apartment. He returned four weeks later and raped her neighbor one door away. What the fuck? A newly hired security guard saw the second victim park her car and walk into the building. From a distance, he saw the rapist follow her walking about 50 feet behind. The man looked ordinary. Oh, like he saw his face. He saw his face, but from 50 feet. The first reported rape occurred May 1st, 1981, and at the Elysian Lakes Apartments. And so this is clearly before they knew about the real first one. Right. At 4920 Northwest 79th Avenue. So was the second, the third, the fourth, and the fifth. The next summer, the crimes began to occur in Coconut Grove, then Broward County, and then back

to Dade. There have also been cases in North Miami, Miami Lakes, Fountain Blue Park, Davey, Taramac, Plantation, Popano Beach, Deerfield Beach, and Oakland Park. The most recent took place last Tuesday, February 19th at a South Miami apartment complex near Southwest 75th Street and 59th Avenue. The victim stepped across the hall to visit briefly with a woman neighbor. She did not lock her door. She returned 10 minutes later to watch Hollywood Wives on TV at 9 p.m. Details. The rapist was waiting, hiding inside a walk-in closet in her apartment. If that right there is not the fucking specific nightmare everybody has, especially young women who live alone, I mean. It's also because like there was a 10-minute window and he knew how did he know her door was

unlocked in that 10-minute window. He is stalking the people he's already victimized. So this is next level monster shit. Oh, how terrifying. And going back, not getting caught and going back is such a nuts-o thing. Totally. He was waiting inside the walk-in apartment closet. Quote, all she saw was a dark shadow rush toward her from behind and something pink over her head, Simmons said. He'd covered her face with a blush-colored towel. Please describe his general pattern. A few years ago, he would awaken his victim before dawn by placing a pillow over her face. Now he arrives earlier in the evening assaulting women who are still awake. Oh, God. Quote, he's taking more chances, Simmons says. He's becoming bolder, of course, as we know.

Yeah. That's how it always goes. He carries an ice pick or a knife and cuts telephone cords. Oh, God. Once he left the victim's telephone in her refrigerator, he often presses his knife to the throats or bodies of the victim, sometimes inflicting minor wounds, sometimes he slashes off undergarments. He says little to his victims and warns them constantly speaking softly in low tones to shut up. Sometimes he moves the victim from room to room and spends her around to disorient her. Not only is he careful to hide his own face, he always covers the victim's faces with pillowcases, pillows, blankets, bed linens, or other items. He constantly warns victims not to look at him. Simmons has a theory about that. Quote, I have a feeling that maybe something

about his face is unusual, a scar, a physical deformity of some kind, something highly distinctive. Okay, so sorry to read you an entire article, but as I was trying to write this, I started realizing once I read this article that all the other articles I was reading and trying to make this chronological, it was all just Edna's article. So I was like, let's just read Edna's article and get it all said because she nailed it. I mean, it's so comprehensive. And then, can you imagine being a woman in the 80s in the Miami area and picking up your newspaper in the morning and reading what I just read? That's horrifying. And I mean, there's so many women, you must know someone who, you know, know someone who knows someone who was a victim.

Right. Yeah, it's crazy. Okay, so after this press conference, after these, you know, obviously the articles start getting written, people start finding out about it, thousands of tips start pouring in. So many, in fact, that in May of the same year, IBM donates computer equipment to help the investigators cross-reference thousands of quotes. Oh, good on you, IBM. So this is like, I think I said 1985, which is like- The computer is humongous. They were like, we're donating it, but you have to come down to our facility to use it. You need an extra room. Yeah. Okay, so in January of 1986, the pillowcase rapist changes his MO. And I think it's probably because the coverage and the story getting out.

Right, so specific, too. Yeah. And clearly, he's smart in paying attention to everything. So he usually targets younger women, but this time he breaks into the home of a 69-year-old woman and makes her his next victim. Not only that, but the usually meticulous criminal also fails to clean up properly and police recover a semen sample from the crime scene. An analysis of the semen sample shows that the attacker's blood type is unique, the typo with a subgrouping found in just 1% of the population, which is not enough to identify them outright, but it's something that they will have. See, that was just a little piece of Edna's article that got repurposed into the rest of the story.

Totally. Okay, so then on February 11th, 1986, a 36-year-old woman encounters the intruder in her home. He's got a pillowcase over his head as he attacks her. It reminds me of that fucking movie, The Strangers. Yeah, totally. It's a pillowcase on the head. Maybe, I don't know what that is. How do you even see, though? I don't know. No, he must have good eyes. I don't know. That's horrible. But this time, again, he's less careful. It's escalating and he's getting out of control. Yeah. And this 36-year-old woman is genius because she tells him and insists to him that she's blind as a bat, that she can't see anything without her glasses that are sitting on her bedside table. So he believes her and takes the pillowcase off his own head and holds a knife

to her throat. He does rape her, but she was lying. She can see him perfectly. How in a moment of terror and panic she was able to be so clear-headed is incredible. Because I think the thing that maybe we don't talk about and maybe a lot of true crime journalists don't talk about because maybe not everybody has been in this horrifying situation is there is a bolt, a lightning bolt of strength that must come out of you in these situations. I bet things get super clear and you are looking for ways to survive. Well, I was going to say that it's out of all of those cases and there are so many. There aren't any women who were able to escape him. It means that this is a very scary, intimidating person that they didn't feel safe trying to

escape. So that says so much about him and how terrifying he is. And it's so incredible that she was able to do that. It's genius. And to do it convincingly. Because it's hard to lie at 7-11. Totally. You know what I mean? And she did it. She nailed it. So armed with the most detailed description of the attacker ever, this woman describes his face to police. They quickly issue a police sketch. The task force distributes one million flyers of this sketch. They even commissioned a sculptor named Tony Lopez to create a clay bust of his head. Tony Lopez is like, I got this. This will be free. It's my pleasure to sculpt this piece of shit's head on the house. And yeah, there's good pictures of both the head sculpture and the flyer that went around.

He basically looks like anybody. Yeah. Yeah, but if you knew him, you would be like, that looks like so-and-so. Right. Local and national news outlets broadcast the sketch and the sculpture. Nothing comes of it. So frustrating. That must have been heartbreaking for all those, that entire task force. Everybody involved is just like, we're so close. Yeah. Yeah. A month later on March 14th, 1986, an 82-year-old woman awakes at roughly 5.30 in the morning to a man standing over her bed with a pillowcase covering his face. Man, you get through all the shit in life and you fucking serve your time to wake up at 82 to that. It's all the worst, but this is kind of depravity, victim depravity stuff that is just like,

it's off the charts. His eyes are showing in this situation after the attack. This is fucking rad. She tears the metal dish towel rack off the kitchen wall and chases him out through the back door. Girl. She is fucking pissed in that probably that very same way of, I didn't fucking live 82 years from this bullshit. Oh my God. She is the 45th and final recorded victim in this rape crime spree. Wow. He makes off with her wedding band, but leaves a bizarre set of clothes behind. A pair of women's red bikini-style underwear, a pair of little girls ruffled red nylon panties. What? Disgusting. A cream-colored woman's sleeveless undershirt, navy blue leather purse with two crumpled department store bags inside of it, and an

unidentified item of men's clothing. He leaves all of that behind. Brought that all with him? Yes, and leaves it behind when he barely ever left anything. She chased him out. She chased him out. He didn't have time to get his creepy trinkets. Weird bullshit, but the police actually consult a Miami psychologist, a man named William R. Samick. He theorizes that he left them behind because he's, quote, setting himself up to be caught. Oh. So it might be that that he's like, can't do it anymore. Subconsciously, like, yeah. Yeah. So after the February 1986 rape of the 45th reported victim who ripped the fucking paper towel shit off the wall, it's like, I will kill you. The attacks suddenly stop.

On April 3rd, 1987, the task force is officially disbanded, and this shocking serial rape case goes cold. Until, oh my God, 32 years later, September 2019, the police respond to a domestic disturbance call where a woman has reported that her boyfriend, 29-year-old Robert J. Kohler, threatened her, broke her flower pots outside of her home, and tried to break into her house through a window. He's arrested. He's charged with attempted burglary, criminal mischief, and domestic violence. And he's 29. He's 29. Yeah. Okay. Because the charges brought against him are felonies, police are required to take a DNA sample and enter it into CODIS. Prosecutors end up dismissing the case. But a little over two weeks ago, on January 13th, 2020.

Holy shit. That DNA sample of Robert Kohler's reveals a familial match to a cold case, the rape of Evie from December 28th, 1983. Oh my God. So investigators, there's a cold case squad, I will call them, but I don't know how many people are on it. But there are cold case investigators that immediately get it, pick it up, start looking into it. They learned that Kohler's 60-year-old father, Robert Kohler Sr., is a registered sex offender who pled guilty to rape charges in Palm Beach County in 1991. So it turns out, so I looked it up, Palm Beach County is just about two hours away from Miami. So it's far enough away that they didn't pick it up on their, it wasn't on their register. Exactly. Okay. That the police there weren't as familiar as like

Miami Metro area or Miami Dade, I don't know, I don't want to act like I know. Okay. Turns out Robert Kohler Sr. was arrested for breaking into Owens home in the middle of the night, covering up her face and raping her. No. Convicts were not required to give DNA samples in the 90s like they are today. Robert Kohler Sr. walked away from that rape charge with probation and with no DNA left behind. No, no, no, no. Apparently, none of the investigators in Palm Beach County in the 90s recognized the pillowcase rapist MO. Right. Now, I will say this, when I googled the pillowcase rapist, more than one came up. Okay. So we do have to remember that this is a thing that happens horrifyingly a lot. Yeah. So we can't be like, what, why didn't they memorize that when

it's like, I bet you they had their own version. And there was no like database where you could be like put in the MO and you can just type in like uses a pillowcase covers the like hopefully today there are stuff like that. Yes, totally. Got it. So and a lot of times when we talk about cases like this are like from the 80s where it's like, it's the detective that what was that one was it the man from the man in the window where I can't remember which detective one of the early Golden State Killer original detectives one of them just walked around and asked people, hey, do you have a like would basically make conversation with other detectives. Right. Just to see what they had just compare just to kind of keep the conversation going about it. I mean, it takes a lot of extra

does work. I think and stuff like this. Anyway, not to be overly defensive. Do it. Sometimes we must sometimes the way I wrote this was apparently none of these investigators in Palm Beach County recognized the MO or made the connection to the pillowcase rapist series. But this cold case team sure did. So they place Robert Kohler senior under surveillance. Investigators follow him to a grocery store, manage to pull his DNA off the shopping cart he used and a door handle he pulled. It's amazing these days like that out of just fingerprints you can get DNA. Yes. Incredible. Yeah, just touch DNA. I love when I when a guy smokes a cigarette flicks the butt and they like walk up three minutes later and with some tweezers. When police run those DNA samples, they get a

preliminary match to the 1983 rape of the victim identified as EV. They now have enough solid evidence for an arrest warrant. So on Saturday, January 18, what, what's that 11 days ago? 10 days. Yeah, 11 days ago, police arrive at Robert Kohler seniors home in Palm Bay, Florida and arrest him. They also secure a search warrant to look through his house. Oh my God. They find several safes that contain jewelry and trinkets that police believe are souvenirs from the rape series in the 80s. Yeah, they are. But more disturbing than that. They find an excavated area underneath Kohler's house, which they have reason to suspect was being built as a dungeon for future victims. Shut up. Holy shit. It's, it's like, it's, it's, you can say it took too long. It's too late,

but then in this case, it's just fucking in time. Right. So now police are able to take better DNA sample because Kohler is in custody. And so they take that sample and they entered into CODIS and results come back linking him to 24 more unsolved rape cases from the 80s. Holy shit. So Thursday, January 23rd, he appeared in court for his initial hearing. He's only been charged with the first rape he was tied to with DNA evidence, which is the one of EVs that occurred on December 28th. But more charges could be added as this evidence is being gathered because this literally is like breaking right now. And in fairness, we need to say that Robert Kohler told the judge at this hearing that he is not guilty, but it's not his official plea because it wasn't

the, it wasn't that trial. It wasn't the time. And so his official plea has not yet been entered. He was denied bond. Yeah. And Detective Dave Simmons, who is now retired, has kept in touch with some of the victims since his days on the task force. The Miami Herald, of course, interviewed him to ask how he felt when he heard the news of this DNA match and the arrest. And he said, quote, I felt absolutely thrilled for the victims that we could finally tell them the man was caught, that the cold case squad continued working after I retired, gets me. The case has haunted me over the years and a lot of them gave up hope. Of course, they went and talked to Edna Buchanan about it. She was elated to hear there was an

arrest and she wondered if it would prompt more victims to come forward. Quote, I just wish it was years and years earlier. Back then, so many women would not report a rape because of the way they were treated. So that's a very important part of this because they don't know how many victims the pillowcase rapist had. And they're just basically starting to dig into the size and breadth of this case. And so there's a woman named Shera Kazovic, I think there's a couple Z's in there. It's very intimidating last name, but she's a licensed clinical social worker at Jackson Memorial Hospital's Roxy Bolton Rape Treatment Center. And she told the Miami Herald, quote, one of the ways people avoid is not reading the news or social media, like Jill that I talked about

at the very beginning. And that can bring back a lot of feelings and a lot of people don't get help until years later. They avoid it and then something will trigger them and all the feelings come back. So she stressed that the rape treatment center that she works for, which is the Roxy Bolton Rape Treatment Center in Miami, it offers free counseling and support groups for victims, even ones from decades ago. And she said, she told the newspaper, it's never too late to get support. And so at the end of one of their articles, the Miami Herald wrote, quote, as victims grapple with decades old memories, Miami Dade prosecutors have now set up a hotline for them to call. What's this an eight? I just love that they're all you're crying. They still

get to fucking report a fucking rape from 40 years. And God, man, fuck statute limitations for sexual assaults. Everyone's getting hip to the fact that these crimes matter. They're real, they're awful. There's no statute limitations on your trauma. No, it's forever. It's always valid. It needs to be worked through. So here's the hotline for Miami Dade prosecutors. It's 305-547-0441. Why is reading numbers getting me so weird? 305-547-0441. State Attorney Catherine Fernandez Rundle said prosecutors will try to file charges in cases in which there is DNA evidence and the victims still available to testify. The Roxy and just for people because there may be people listening to this who realize that this

horrible event that happened in their life is connected to this case. That's possibility. Yeah. So just so you know, the Roxy Bolton Rape Treatment Center is the only comprehensive rape treatment center in Miami Dade County. And one of the few rape treatment centers nationwide to provide an all inclusive approach to the care, to the care and treatment of victims of sexual assault over the age of 12. So there's really good resources for the women of Southern Florida, which is a very heartening thing to know because as this case is breaking and as this case kind of really gets delved into, just like Golden State Killer, I think that, you know, lots of things are going to be discovered and lots of people are going to, I don't know, who knows what's

going to happen. But it's very nice to know these, there's resources there that are great. And that's the breaking cold case story of the fucking pillowcase rapist. That is incredible. Great job. Thank you. That's why I understand why you made Jay ask me. How annoying would that be? We can't, you're like, and now I go first pillowcase rapist. Wow. I know. Oh, you know, I love cold cases being solved so much. It's so, it's one of the good things that's happening. It's really good. It's happening.

Guys, and remember, old trauma deserves to be heard and taken care of and, you know, treated as well. So no matter how you think, like, oh, I should be over this by now, and it's been too long. And, you know, trauma doesn't have a time limit and trauma lives in places and buries itself until years and years later and, you know, comes out in weird manifestations and, you know, you can't do it wrong. Right. It's going to be hard and messy. Yeah. But you can't do it wrong. And there are people who know how to help you. Right.

And, you know, just from what the, the, what I read, it's not like I know so much about it, but it's just so cool that that rape treatment center really seems they're, they're all about the full comprehensive care. Yeah. So it's not just like, let's get this evidence and let's get your report. It's really, it really seems like there's such good support systems in place. Yeah. Which is, you know, it's really nice to be able to say that every once in a while. Totally.

In one of these fucking stories. Totally. Yeah. Great job. Thank you. Emotional episode. Journey. What's, it's the weirdest thing, reading a phone number. Yeah.

But I think it was just like, that just that idea that it's an, it's like a offering to, to victims. Yeah. And they're respecting it. They're just, they're basically saying, we want to hear from you. We want to know what this really is as opposed to some of the stories we read where it's just like, uh, yeah, that's not convenient or not. Yeah. Or in 1991 when he gets parole for a sexual assault. Wow. Okay. Well, I feel like my fucking array isn't good enough. I mean, I think we always feel that way.

It's hard to, it's hard to take a left turn and go like, here's a valid thing. My fucking array is that I just took the news app off my phone. That's good. Oh my God. I was going down this constant rabbit hole. And I want to stay informed. And so I do find other ways of reading the news and everything and staying up on current events. But that news app that I would constantly refresh and get so many articles that had nothing to do with either news or me taking that off has been a huge anxiety reducer for me.

I bet. That's very smart. It's like, there's, we've all, it's a very recent thing that we all suddenly started believing that we have to know what's going on all the time. Right. Right. It's not true. Yeah. For years, millennia, most people had no fucking clue what was going on. Right. You know, it's going on your family and your town. And that was it. And if someone came up to you and punched you in the arm at the grocery store,

that would be a thing. But it's so good. That's very nice. Yeah. That's worse. I think mine needs to be, my dad is, it came down to visit. Jim. Big Jim. We had a real fun dinner last night, Nia, you and Vince and Jim. But I was just kind of in my house with him today.

And we, I mean, I love my dad. My dad's the greatest. But I couldn't stop thinking about how fun he is to talk to. He loves to tell stories. He's fucking hilarious. His references are like of the moment. He's interested in other people. He's interested in like learning about what's going on. I love hanging out with him. He was on a, on our drive to dinner.

We had to take a, like a conference call and I was like, sorry, you just have to listen to this. And he, I, when we got, when I, we got off the phone, I was like, sorry, I know that's kind of irritating. And he was like, are you kidding me? I love this is fascinating. You guys are so, you're doing big business and you're so smart. He was stoked about it. And it was just like, I had a wave of deep gratitude that I think I rarely have

because I'm very spoiled. You know, I thought everyone's parents were like that growing up. Where it's like a dad that, my dad, when my sister and I were obsessed with the outsiders when we read it, when we were 12, the Essie Hinton book, he took it and read it after us. And then called me Pony Boy and my sister, Soda Pop. Like he wants, he wants to be in the world. He's involved in your lives.

Yeah. And as like an 80 year old white man these days, he's kind of alone. He's a lone wolf a little bit. Liberal and everything. Liberal and more like, you know, he's really mad about what's happening, what's happening around him, what's happening to people his age, the way he's seeing people kind of fall for bullshit. Anyway, hooray for Jim, I guess is my thing. I feel like I kind of finally understand how much I lucked out in the dad lottery.

That's awesome. I love that. I like hanging out with him a lot. You guys are so, I always loop you and Vince and run like, I don't want to get dinner because my dad, he could hang out with Vince forever. It's like they're long lost best friends. Totally. It's hilarious. Totally. Oh, it's so great. Yay.

Also, he really supported you stopping dry January. Why'd you do that? Georgia goes, Georgia goes, I stopped drinking for the month of January. He goes, why the hell would you do that? Yeah, that's how it is in my family. Mine too. I love it. Rad, what's your fucking rate? Let us know. Yeah.

Let us know what yours is. That's a great idea. On Instagram. Let's start doing a comment on what your fucking hooray is. I'd love to hear other people's fucking hooray. And we can read a couple other people's and then do our own. That's a good idea. And we can steal other people's hooray and then be like, I don't know what you mean.

This has been mine the whole time. This is mine. Mine puppy. What? You don't have a puppy. What? And my favorite murder on Instagram and what is it? My favorite murder on Twitter and myfavoritmurder.com. I couldn't get my favorite murder when I set up the Twitter account.

Well, we didn't think it'd be a big deal. I honestly didn't think it would ever come up. I was just like, yeah, you want me to start a social media. Remember when I was doing shirts and I got my favorite murder shirts.com? Because I just didn't think it'd be more than shirts. Right. We'd just do some shirts. Why would it be? Thanks for listening.

You guys are the best. Thanks for letting us do more than shirts. That's right. Shirts with merch. That's right. And of course you can find all of our official merch on my favorite murder.org. No. .edu.

No. What is it? Calm.calm and stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Bye. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Bye. Bye.