My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 208 - Live at the Orpheum Theater in Omaha (2019)

Episode Date: February 6, 2020

Karen and Georgia cover the murders of John Sheedy and Cari Farver.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook, and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Georgia? Yeah.

It's Karen. Hi, Karen. And all of our listeners, that today is a very special episode supported by the Amazon original docuseries, Ted Bundy, Falling for a Killer. That's right. The five-part series reframes Bundy's crimes from a female perspective, which is so cool, featuring interviews with Bundy's longtime girlfriend and her daughter, as well as family members of the victims, survivors, law enforcement, and more.

Learn how one man's pathological hatred of women collided with the culture wars and feminist movement to culminate in what is perhaps the most infamous true crime saga of our time. So check out Ted Bundy, Falling for a Killer on Amazon Prime Video. And stick around until the end of the episode, because you're going to hear a special interview with the show's producer and director, Trish Wood. She was incredible. She's a genius.

It was a really, really cool conversation that was much longer than what you're going to hear. That's right. We had to edit it down, and we were really honored to talk to her. She's such a cool woman, and this project is really amazing. So definitely listen to that at the end of this amazing live show we're about to play for you. Have fun, guys.

Goodbye. Bye-bye. What's up, Omaha? Okay, let's try that one more time. Let's try it again. How are you all? Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for coming.

I know it's been hard for some of you, so I know people are showing up in the shits, and we appreciate the fact that you got here very much to thank you guys. My mic's not on, yes it is. Thank you. There it is. Try it out. Hi, everyone. Here's my mic.

This is the mic. Here's my mic, et cetera. There we go. Yeah, she did. I have pockets. That's about all I can say. Thank you. Oh, I have a safety pin in my pocket for you.

That was for me for last night, because I got this dress yesterday in Kansas City, Missouri. Donna's dress shop, shout out. Yes, Donna's dress shop, amazing. Vintage and modern apparel, got this dress, brought it to the show wearing sweats without a backup dress, and didn't realize until I put it on that the cleavage went down to around here. It was a Jenny from the Block special that I didn't realize was happening. It was a good topic of conversation, though, so we got that.

That's true, and so actually it was so insane. At one point, Georgia just went, your boobs are out. It was nuts. I whispered your bras showing, but into a microphone, so that isn't right. It's different. Yeah, that's different. It's different kind of whispering. That's a stage whisper.

It's what they call it in the theater, a stage whisper. So then in the meet and greet, I can't remember her name, but somebody just walked up and goes, this is for you, and Georgia had the pocket, so she kept it for me. She kept it right there. But instead you fucking went Martha Stewart on that dress. I fucking went to the come and go or whatever your dirty names of your gas stations are. You guys. Come on.

The fuck. What the? They knew. Filthy. They knew. That's a long con to get people to just keep talking about their store. I mean, I don't think that their little logo had to be like a gas pump with this gas coming on it.

It seems wrong, but look, sex sells. We know that. Of anybody. Clearly. Clearly we know that. Obviously. And we went in. We ran in and I bought a sewing kit at a gas station and then sewed, sewed like Martha

Stewart in the backseat of the rental car as we drove here. Just like our ancestors did. Yeah. So, I mean, seriously, you see the amount of cleavage I have tonight. It was double last night. Who knows what? Thank you, but that's not really what it was like. Donna was like, Donna was like, let's show everyone, Donna from Donna's Dress Shop.

Donna? Like, let's show these off tonight. She's very pro, pro chest and breast. I mean, who am I guess? Truly. Omaha, I've been wanting to come here since I saw Dirty Rotten Scoundrels as a kid, which is weird. Oh, you mean Lady Fanny from Omaha.

God, I fucking say that all the time, but it doesn't make any sense. And it still doesn't, even though I'm in Omaha. They're young people. That's true. They're very young. Can I show you my favorite headline? Oh, yes. Recently, my dad sent this to me, texted it to me today.

You guys probably have all seen this, but it's pretty amazing. What? Did you know about the Magic Ridge? What? I'll tell Georgia. I'll tell Georgia because you already know about it. Whisper it to me. This what?

Whisper it to me. Stay with me. Okay. Georgia. Yeah. There's these guys. So my dad loves Budweiser, like in a way where it seems like he's getting paid. Like if you walk into his house at any time of day or night, he'll go, you want a bud?

Want a cold one? You want a bud? Wow. He's very troubled. Jitching every time he says. Jitching. If only. So he was very proud about this article.

It's a magic bridge, men find ice cold beers in a field after long hours of cleaning up Nebraska flood wreckage. So yeah, that sounds amazing. It was Gaylord Stover and Kyle Simpson, and they were cleaning up debris on Kyle Simpson's property all fucking day, and near the end of the day, they see like shit and like a pile of shit and they go over to grab it. And it's a little like a, you know, that size refrigerator. And they're like, look, it's a refrigerator, and then they open it and it's full of ice

cold beer. It's awesome. Ice cold. Yes. That is amazing. If only we were a kegerator, but still. But still. So they could just go straight into there.

Yeah. That's incredible. I mean, finally men get a fucking break. I know. Isn't it nice? It's nice to finally. But there's a, there's a note, there's a B side to the story. Oh, someone's beer.

Yeah. They had to give it all back. It's our podcast. So everybody got killed at the end of this. No. Not at all. Quite the opposite. Uh-huh.

So it goes a little bit viral, right? Not enough so that I had heard of it, but like probably definitely in the state of Nebraska and surrounding. Lots of dads. Dads, beer lovers, small refrigerator lovers, college students. You know the types. So this guy, Brian Healy, sees the story and goes, that's my fucking refrigerator. This refrigerator survived his parents house burning down in 2007.

What? Yes. And so after that, they took this charred refrigerator, they said the reason that he recognized it is because of the char marks on it from the family house fire. And so he basically gets a whole, he goes on there and says, that's my refrigerator. And that's my beer, probably too. Yeah. And that's my beer.

Oh, he said he also knew it was his because of the ratio of Bud Light to Bush Light. Oh. In there. Wow. Yeah. And so are they best friends now? So yeah, so Brian Healy calls, no, sorry, Kyle Simpson gets Brian Healy's phone number and calls them and says, when they repair my road, I'll drive it back to you.

And it turns out that they had actually after the house burned down, they took the refrigerator up to the family cabin, like their whole family shares a cabin and the cabin was destroyed in the flood. And so the refrigerator is the only thing left from the fucking cabin. And it floats four miles downstream to Kyle Simpson's, stays closed, stays closed, stays ice cold. We're going to need the name, the manufacturer, the make the model. I need all this information, promo code murder, right?

Promo code murder. Wow. Yeah. It's a pretty good story. That's gorgeous. You guys, good fun. So Brian Healy is also in the article and she says, cause they were like, Oh, this is what a terrible story.

And Aunt Judy pops up and it's like, we just lost a cabin and a refrigerator. There's people whose lives have been impacted who are in terrible trouble. And those are the people we need, we need to help. So we want to use this story to bring awareness to the fact is our refrigerators are refrigerators. We don't care. Aunt Judy. Aunt Judy. Aunt Judy.

Aunt Judy. Oh, bless her heart. But I mean it. Not in the Southern way. Bless her heart. You mean it in the Midwestern way. I mean it in the real way. Yeah.

And this, and then atheists, but in a good way. I get it. You just dismantle the whole concept. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, we agree with Aunt Judy. Yeah. So we're donating $10,000 to the Red Cross. Yeah, oh my God, don't do that, don't do that, you don't gotta.

And we're doing it. We're doing it in the name of the Omaha Murderinos. Yeah. So there you go. You're all Aunt Judy's tonight. You. You. You.

We're all Aunt Judy. We're all Aunt Judy. You're poor thighs from standing up and sitting down and standing up. There's only five more instances where we're gonna make you stand up tonight. Oh, just wait till we give you all cars. Oh, speaking of, this is my favorite murder the podcast. Oh, that's right. This is Aunt Karen Pilgera.

And this is, this is Aunt Georgia Hardstar. Right there. Thanks guys. Stephen is at home. Play it up. Yeah, he's listening. He's been banned from your state. And if you knew why, you'd be glad.

Never trust a mustache. Don't be a fool. Beard sign. These days. Great. Mustache. Never not been a red flag. Never trust a hipster in a mustache.

That's what my grandma told me. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Back when you were a little kid. Grandma, tell me about mustaches. She's like, I know what you mean by that, Georgia. When a man and a woman love each other very much. Oh, should we sit down?

Sure. Okay. Oh. Bye guys. Bye. You're the best. Thanks for everything. Look at these red leather booth seats.

There we go. Are these from Red Lobster? What if that was on our writer? Yeah. We just demand Red Lobster. Just smell like Cheddar Bay biscuits. Yes. We should make Cheddar Bay biscuit candles.

I think we'll get sued. Okay. Let's do that. This is a true crime comedy podcast for all of you drag alongers. Oh, is it My Line? So, we often have to explain this at the top of the show. The people who listen to this podcast, obviously passionately, and we thank you for that. Yeah, but except that you bring people here who don't listen, and that's why.

Like, it doesn't make sense. You're like, I feel like you're my best friends, but like, if you brought your friend to a party, you'd know that we don't, they need to. That we don't want them there. Yeah, I was going in that direction and I was like, shut up, Georgia. Stop it. Well, it's just that. We're a special group, and we have a special interest.

We're a special interest group. A lot of people get offended who don't listen to the podcast. They're like, true crime and comedy, that's a bad combination. And, you know, true crime, you talk about murder, murder is the worst thing that could happen to a person. And that comedy shouldn't be involved in it. And therefore, we hate you. Don't come by our church again. I don't know. These things, they come up in my mind.

But we just like to take this opportunity to say, actually, Georgia and I have both been obsessed with true crime since we were kids. And because we are fascinated and horrified and scared, but also very interested in the real world and the way we deal with the real world and the problems and the oppression of the real world is through comedy and laughter and humor. Or we would go fucking bat shit, berserk. So, we insist upon our right to combine true crime and comedy. And if you don't like it, you can get the fuck out. And listen, just so you don't feel bad in Kansas City, we made the drag-along stand up while she gave that speech. So, consider yourself lucky.

And they did it, too. They did it. That's the weird part. I was so proud. It was kind of offensive. But we get it. I go first. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, Hello Fresh has you covered.

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I did one of those things where I read about this and then found an article at the 11th hour that was so fucking interesting that folded all this extra shit in where I was just like, A, I should have stayed in college, and B, I should do this more than four hours before the show. It seems like it would be a better idea. So this is a historical one, and this is the murder of John Sheedy. Let's not start doing call-and-response shit at these shows. It's weird. Okay, so this, most of the information, so there's a website I discovered this weekend doing stories from other cities, and it's called MurderByGaslite.com, and it has all these amazing stories from turn of the century and 19th century, right? When there was Gaslight, you guys went to college. So yeah, so there's a ton of really amazing and kind of stories you've never heard before, but they're as fucked up and insane as all the ones that we hear from today.

Murder's always been the same throughout the years, everybody. Really makes you think. But then at the 11th hour, as I was saying, I found a website called gildedage.unl, which is the University of Nebraska at Lincoln. Good job, guys. .edu. How you guys like to do it? And so it was an online, I cut and paste what it was because I didn't understand why there was a whole website, but it was from a school and based on a paper, where I was like, it's just a website. But apparently it was an online version of an award-winning article by Timothy Armajoni, professor of history at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln, and the article is called The Great Sheedy Murder Case and the Booster Ethos of the Gilded Age in Lincoln, Nebraska.

Which is where this takes place. That sounds smart. I mean, even reading that just now was really intimidating. I feel like we deserve a degree now in college. I think we might get an honorary doctorate after this show, for sure. So here's the first thing I learned in this article. There's a thing in Nebraska in the Gilded Age, which is apparently the 19th century. 1800s.

Something's wrong with Karen's mic. And that was basically that it may have happened all over the Midwest, but this is specific to Lincoln. Before Lincoln's development, men from different sectors of society came together to further their town's growth. So in an effort to attain maximum economic growth, they were often willing to restrain their personal values and opinions and work with others who did not share their lifestyle. Wait, so I don't get it. So like, what I'm assuming is the two Jews that were in the entire state were welcomed into the Presbyterian Church. So generous.

And there was a couple of Methodists over there. They were like, fine. They were like, hard labor, hard labor, great. Let's do this. And so it was basically, we need to make this city strong, whatever they wanted to persevere. Because then eventually, when the train started running through, there was this huge, it was like economic boom growth. I'm using Fraser. I don't know what I'm talking about.

And you know it, and I know it. The men who forged the booster ethos came from a variety of occupations, the bulk being attorneys, politicians, farmers, and businessmen. So it was like greatest people across all the lines, race, creed. Probably not color, I can't imagine. It was the 1800s, let's not pretend. But basically they just agreed they were going to put their shit aside and actually care about where they lived. What an interesting concept, America. I'm so glad we live in a world where, oh.

That's tonight. Okay. Now, an interesting twist, in the 1880s, the attorneys, businessmen, and other middle class men attempting to expand Lincoln's economy became increasingly divided as to what qualified as legitimate business. Because us, the traditional boosters believed in any form of business, be it alcohol, sales, or prostitution, or gambling, they basically were just like, if it's money, it's green, get it going, let's do this thing. Yes, let's make money off the thing that people really like to spend money on. But of course, a bunch of people didn't feel that way because temperance was a huge thing at the time.

So there was all these temperance leagues, of course churchgoers and church leaders, conservative people, a.k.a. the buzz kills. So there were some issues with it. But that's just, no, I'm setting the tone ignorantly. And yet, Timothy Armajone sure knows what he's talking about. So here we go. 56 minutes southwest of Omaha. Lincoln, Nebraska is the capital of Nebraska.

And in 1891, according to something called Hoy's Directory, I pictured it as a big old-fashioned phone book. Hoy Hoy is that way? Hoy Hoy, Hoy's Directory. What if it is? That makes sense. It could be. It is. Put it in Wikipedia, it's true.

Yes. Steven, when you hear this, will you always just sit into Wikipedia, please? We got Steven like 50 different accounts for Wikipedia under different names. So it looks like we're just putting facts in. Haven't anyone seen it yet? I saw Steven. It's all Steven. Steven runs Wikipedia.

He wears a black turtleneck. He's got a weird beard. And he's very vegan. So according to the Hoy Hoy Directory, Lincoln was in the midst of a phenomenal population boob's bone. I said boob. It's going to be such a great show tonight, everybody. In 1880, the population was less than 15,000. And by 1890, 10 years later, that figure was over 55,000.

So more than tripled in 10 years. Shit. So things were happening in Lincoln. It was a place to be. It was the place to be. And in most American cities in the Guilton age, they had what was called an entertainment district. So basically, when they put the railroads in and the train depot was there, then within, you know, say five to 10 walking blocks of the train depot,

they would have the entertainment district, which was houses of prostitution, as well as casinos and saloons. Shit ton of saloons. It's a fun part of town. Yeah, exactly. Right? So that district in Lincoln was basically P Street between the passenger depot and 12th Street. You know.

Real hotspot. Today, it's like four Chipotle's. It's Chipotle. Chipotle senior. Chipotle West. Chipotle night. Chipotle we serve beer. Come on in.

So, okay. So this is where a man, John Sheedy, comes into play. He was an Irish immigrant and he moved to Lincoln from Council Bluffs, Iowa in 1869. Yeah. Oh, thank you. What for women? We don't get it. We're from Los Angeles and we don't care about anyone else.

So when we go to a town and they're like, we hate them. We're like, why? You should be friends. Why? And we don't like football, so we don't get it. Yeah. Do we have football? I don't know.

Oh, yes. The Super Bowl. Yes. We did great, didn't we? We sure beat them. Fighting Los Angeles agents. Yeah. They kicked us.

The old Super Bowl of stars. That's right. Okay. I show you John Sheedy now. John Sheedy. There he is. John Sheedy has rosacea and a lot of odd black hairs. A little colic.

Kind of a grid system of black hairs on John Sheedy's very flat face. It's not a cool postcard, though. It is. That's John Sheedy right there. Hey, get that mole checked out. I thought, okay, nothing. Wouldn't it be fun if he shaved that beard, if his chin ended right below his lower lip? He was one of those guys that just goes straight fucking back.

Or what if it ended at the bottom of the goatee right before the end? Yeah, it was so big. There's so many options. The opposite bad option. Exactly. Pick one. There's always two horrible options that are opposites. He has that mole just to distract you.

What his chin may look like. Over here. Over here. If we could zoom in on the mole, it would have also a white swirl, so it hypnotized you and did not looking at the chin. Over here. Sheedy. Sheedy.

Got it. In the early 1870s, he's running his own casino, so he got right to it. Illegally, of course. The casino is located on the second floor of Gus Sandler's Saloon, your favorite place to go on the weekends, which was at the corner of 10th and Pete. No one cares. No one cares. Corner of 10th and Pete, I meant to say.

Corner of 10th and Pete. In the uptown district of Lincoln, despite being illegal, the casino's existence is well known and frequented by Lincoln's, of course, wealthiest and most prominent citizens, including the mayor, Carlos C. Burr. Good for him. Great. John Sheedy and his casino are not popular with two groups of people in Lincoln that competing casino owners, of course, illegal casino owners.

This is like a kind of a scar face with dice. They're jealous of Sheedy's success because he came in and just immediately was doing great, and then there's angry conservatives who they see Sheedy's open promotion of gambling and basically the sinful life, and so they don't think it's good or fair or good for the town. So, boom, still, he runs his operation without much trouble. He gets arrested a couple of times. One time they try to come and arrest him.

Basically, they know he's the operator. He gets arrested for gambling somewhere, and he has to stay in jail until he can pay his, what do you call it, bail? Thank you. Tie. But he's rich, so it doesn't matter. He gets out immediately. There's one time they come to try to arrest him for gambling, but then he's at home because

he's been stabbed by one of the patrons of his casino, and so he's like, yeah, can't get me on that one. I've got a knife in my gut. Thank God for him. That's, you know, small blessings of John Sheedy's life. Okay, so he basically maintains a stronghold on the underground gambling industry in Lincoln, and he, of course, starts paying off the police so they don't bother him, so now we find Mary Sheedy.

All right. This is my new headshot. I'm going to get a real short haircut, but it's going to go up high for some reason. Okay. Okay, so now we're talking about Mary Sheedy, who's originally named Molly Merrill, and totally different name. Moved to Lincoln from Illinois with her second husband, George Merrill, in 1879, and she gets a job as a maid at the Arlington Hotel, which is where John Sheedy lives, and John

and Mary either could have met there or they could have met at his casino because Mary, let's call her Mary, even though her name is Molly, but she switches it at some point, at that point, which I don't know, because Timothy Mahoney didn't specify in his article, and therefore, if Timothy doesn't know, neither do I. Mary and her second husband, George, like to drink. They like to go to the casinos. They like to gamble, so they could have met there. She could have been his maid in the hotel, but essentially, it isn't long before Mary

starts cheating on George, and in 1880, George finds out about Mary's infidelities, and they get into a fight. He locks her out of their apartment, yelling that he, quote, refuses to live with such a damned Hoover. Oh! It's interpretation. I don't know if you pronounced it that way. She's a Hoover.

And then he sells all their furniture and moves back to Illinois and leaves her in Lincoln by herself. Okay. So this is another thing that was in that article. They talk about, because there is an index of all these definitions, and when I come upon this, which isn't directly related, but I had to read it anyway, because this subject is true womanhood, and then it says, historians develop the concept of, quote, true womanhood to help understand gender in the 19th century United States, dear.

The concept encompasses the range of values associated with respectable women that emerged during that time period, including domesticity, purity, and piety. We were going to call our podcast that, but we thought it would be too long. Bragging. Bragging a little. I don't think the shirts would be cute at all. Then right underneath, true womanhood is unruly women. And it says, to the dismay of its advocates, both male and female, many women in Lincoln

and throughout the United States did not conform to true womanhood. You're fucking right about that. Instead, many women chose not to marry and sought to survive through other means. And given the limited choices granted to women in the 19th century, many decided that a life of prostitution would be their best option. Right? This comes up so much in these old stories that we do, where it's basically, it's the 19th century, and someone, oh, I don't know, walks outside their motherfucking house.

And whether it's that they're in love with someone who convinces them they're going to marry them and then gets knocked up, has sex with them because they think they're going to get knocked up. The guy bails, she is the fucking harlot with a scarlet A and he runs for mayor and has the best life ever. It's that or you get raped and the same thing happens. Or any number of ways to step in shit and you're fucking done for. And so that's really what they're talking about here is how unruly women, it was forced

on you most of the time. If you didn't stay pretty or get married when you were 22, you were pretty fucked. God forbid you don't want to get beaten by a husband. Right, if you don't like getting punched in the face, you're an unruly woman. There is that. And we're not even addressing how it was ten times worse for women of color. There was unruly women everywhere. Clearly, I think Mary probably was just like, yeah, I don't want to, I'm going to fucking

get with this guy. He's got money in a casino and that guy took all my furniture. So yes, I got boyfriend number three. Fuck you. Sounds great. This is why they wouldn't let us have pockets, all those unruly women with their knives and their guns pissed off. If we have pockets.

Mary moves in with John Sheedy and their relationship progresses, John takes Mary on her trip to New Orleans and on that trip, she says, you either marry me or I stay here and you never see me again. Shit. Because she knows she's on the fucking bubble. This fucking chick. Yeah. I'm sure she was super funny and had a great personality and was fun to drink with.

She proposes on the spot and they return to Lincoln as husband and wife. Meet you. Right? That's what you call it? So his casino business continues to grow and he starts using his money to acquire and build real estate. So in the 1880s, he actually built the Sheedy building in downtown Lincoln. So this is the block.

The Sheedy building was a 1211 P Street and this is the north side of P Street between 9th and 11th. It said it was a large three-story building. So it's either this one, that one, that one or that one. Well, it's adorable no matter what. Cute. Okay. Does it still look like that, you think?

Yes. It's exactly like that, right? There's so many. It's all those horses. Just fucking horses everywhere. Wild, free. So he builds this building. They move into an apartment in the building and then there's businesses in the building.

Obviously that's how buildings work. Okay. So in January 1885, Harrison Littlefield files the first series of complaints of the Order League in the county court charging the John Sheedy and other men are operating a gambling hall. So they're trying to like, we're trying to clean up the town or whatever. And he evades, Sheedy evades arrest that time. Then in 1890, John and Mary take another trip this time to Buffalo, New York.

But this time, while they're Mary Falls ill and is treated for a, quote, disease peculiar to women. John and Mary get into a fight and John leaves her in Buffalo and goes back to Lincoln without her. He couldn't have done that in New Orleans or at least should have some fun. No offense to the one person who woohooed for Buffalo. So she's now by herself in Buffalo. So she meets a man named Harry Waldstrom who's a machinist and a traveling salesman.

Oh, they're so charming. That specific combination. They fall in love. It doesn't last, of course. Cause she's basically trying to keep her roof over her head is what I'm imagining. She eventually returns to Lincoln to work things out with John. But Harry Waldstrom follows her to Lincoln. Okay.

So now we're back in Lincoln. Mary, she's back in 1890, early 1891. And she and John make up and everything seems normal until the night of January 11th, 1891. Okay. It's eight o'clock at night and John leaves the house to go to work at the casino when a strange man suddenly jumps out of the shadows and bashes him in the head of a leather covered cane. What?

Oh, sorry. A leather covered steel cane. It still doesn't make. I still don't. Okay. It was like his cane was wearing chaps. Really tight ones. You got it.

Yeah, I can't. I don't know. It's just a fucking super dapper guy that also attacks people. He struck three times on the side of the head before finally managing to pull out his pistol, but he shoots and misses. So the attacker drops the cane and runs away. I mean, dances away. So Mary goes out here as the commotion goes out, helps John back into the house, tends

to his wounds, sends for a doctor, calls the police. So there's also neighbors there that are helping as well. The doctors bandaged John's head. They give him painkillers, cocaine. It was all cocaine back then. And his injuries are really bad, but as far as the doctors can tell, they're not fatal. So later that same night, just as John's about to go to bed, Mary fixes him a cup of coffee with some sleeping powder in it to help him rest.

And in the middle of the night, John suddenly becomes paralyzed and then falls into a coma. And he remains comatose for a full day. And then by 10 o'clock the next night, John Sheedy is dead. So this death, which is really a murder, sends the town of Lincoln into a frenzy. It's of course all over the press. It's all anyone can talk about. He was a very well-known person in town. And people, of course, feel less safe in a place they felt very safe.

But they also start doubting that the prominent figures, the mayor and the cops and everything, can actually control the city. They're starting to feel like if they can't make it safe for someone like John Sheedy, how can it be safe for me, the farmer that drives in every once in a while to cash in some corn or whatever? So everyone gets real uncomfortable. So there's an inquest. At 9 a.m. on January 13, 1891, it's a judge, a jury, lawyers, and police officers that

all gather to hold this inquest regarding John's death. But of course, a shit ton of townspeople show up as well because they want to know what's going on and, of course, all the reporters. And the coroner has to ask all non-essential individuals to leave, which must be very hurtful. Yeah. Define essential. I feel essential. Yeah.

I feel like I care. That makes me essential to this inquest. You're like, ma'am, get out. You go back to the Hoover house. They had to yell that over and over. So the fact that all the non-essentials got dismissed raises alarm bells because now they're thinking there's a cover-up and something's going on that they don't want to tell the press or the people.

So they determined that Shidi's cause of death is from internal bleeding caused by the blows to the head and it's ruled a murder. But the people aren't buying it because they think if the head injuries are because of Shidi's death, he would have died immediately or much sooner. But despite the ruling and investigation into the whereabouts of the man who attacked John Shidi begins. So police chief Samuel Mellick and detective James Malone. Let's see these fuckers.

Oh. Okay. Why are his eyes bleeding? You've seen this horror movie, right, where the guy whose eye beard comes to ask you questions? No. It's like someone, like in Big Lebowski, when they shade it over something someone else had drawn on the top and then it also is scary. Yes.

It's from a scary person. Yeah. I get it. I mean, I know it was from, this whole thing was from a long time ago, but couldn't we get someone who knew what they were fucking doing? Yeah. To draw it? Yeah.

These were the only pictures available. This is what they got. That can't be right. Where did I go? Where did I go? Okay. So they're questioning Mary and other witnesses to try to figure out who this attacker is and Mary and a few of the witnesses say they saw a black man running down 12th Street and

they believe that he must be the culprit. And a local pawn shop owner comes forward and corroborates that story saying that he recently sold a leather-bound steel cane to a man who was actually a local named William Monday McFarland, which is the best fucking nickname of all time. So Monday McFarland is found two days later, just hanging out in a bar in Uptown, Lincoln, and he's arrested. And it's the turn of the century, so you can imagine that he was treated wonderfully by the police.

In custody, he's subjected to long bouts of questioning and then he's held in a sweat box, which is a windowless, airless, tiny room. And despite this brutal treatment, he maintains his innocence until police chief Mellick, I think he was that one, and Detective Malone threatened to release McFarland to the angry mob that's outside the jail, and then Monday McFarland confesses that he's the one who attacked John Sheedy. But he says, twist a roux, he was hired to do it. Not by rival casino owners, not by the Temperance League, some really old ladies with Bibles

are like, could you just kill him, we're so sick of this, drinking, gambling, hit him in the head a bunch of times. He was actually hired by Molly, Mary, Meryl, Sheedy, Mae, Marlene, shit. So when Monday McFarland, oh, so this is how they know each other, Monday McFarland is a barber at Beverly Crampton's barber shop, which is in the Sheedy building. Business. That's right. One of the businesses.

That's why I was making sure to tell you that businesses are put into buildings after they are built. Oh man, foreshadowing. I fucking, I led you right to the door. We didn't know. We had no idea. I didn't want this moment to be unsatisfying if you were one of those people that didn't know where businesses go.

So he's downstairs in Beverly Crampton's barber shop, which is where I want to go get my hair done. And he gets hired by John Sheedy to be Mary's hairdresser. And so he would go up to their apartment and every week and cut Mary's hair real high and tight is how she liked it, just never let it down at all. And of course, over time, Mary and Monday became close, because you tell your hairdresser everything. Oh my God.

Girl. Did you hear that burp? Was it mine? No. It was mine. It wasn't mine. Because I've been holding one this whole time. Letter rep.

I already did, but I put the microphone not far enough away from my mouth, and it's like, oh, they heard that. No, I was doing that thing where I'm now in the place where I spend so much time by myself. I don't know if I'm doing things out loud or not. I didn't hear one. You didn't? A little pause, but I would not have classified it as a burp. Maybe I'll start doing this.

Like an old-fashioned, like, handicapped drunk. I wish nothing more than that I had to say I didn't could do it right now, but I'll let you know when I can. Okay, just put it. You don't even have to let me know. Just surprise me. Okay. I'm not throwing a sad part.

Okay. Okay. Agreed. Agreed. Okay. What was that thing we were saying yesterday, oh, I said, Georgia burped, but right before she burped yesterday, I said, here's me, but I was talking about something else, and so I was like, here's me, and then we're like, that's what you should say before every burp.

Here's me. I think, yeah, I love it, and that's just who I am, and I won't apologize for it, except when I say excuse me. Okay. So over time, Mary confesses to Monday that her marriage to John Sheedy is a complete sham, and that he cheats on her regularly, and then she confides that she also cheats on him with Harry Walshstrom, the guy from Buffalo, the machinist. And all that confiding takes a toll, and then they start fucking Monday and Mary.

That's right. You can only confide so much before you're like, guess who album I'm sleeping with? You. Put down that comb. So then one day while he's washing and setting her vagina, that's cheap, no, don't, don't. That's hacky. I don't work blue like that. It was good.

There's so many other options. We don't need to work blue. I couldn't help it. I loved it. My fingers made me do it. I loved it. I was like, do it. Do it.

It was such a twist that we didn't expect it. Then one day, Mary tells Monday that she has a deal she'd like to propose. She says that if he kills John Sheedy for her, she'll pay him $20,000. It's a lot of money. How much do you think it is in today's money? 8,000 bitcoins. Which is, you're right, because it's over half a million dollars today. When someone goes that high, they're lying.

You know what I mean? Yes. That's bullshit. If someone's like, oh, I'd love for you to do this thing, I can't do it. It's such a pain. Kill somebody. Anyway. Half a mil?

You're lying. If you, yes, no. I don't think so. Are you asking me about it? Yeah, I'm asking you to kill my husband. So she explains that if John dies, she stands to inherit his estate, which is now worth roughly $200,000, which is over $6 million in today's money. So at first he refuses, of course, because murder is bad, but then she threatens to tell

John about the affair that they're having, and so that's a huge threat, and obviously that's like saying, I'll kill you because it's a black man having an affair with a white woman, so then he is forced to agree. So he tells police he actually had tried to kill John Cheety two other times, whoa. Both times by trying to shoot him, he just missed both times. That's the thing about hiring any random person to kill someone, like most people aren't good at it. Yeah, I would say if you're going to hire someone, go ahead and get a professional,

and not someone who's like, I don't know, guns are crazy. I'd rather not kill someone, but if you're going to blackmail me, I guess it would. But I like the idea that he went from a gun, like, oh, that didn't work. Oh, I'm terrible at this. Let me get a steel cane encased in leather. That's it. Okay, but the real news was that although Monday admits to attacking John Cheety with the metal cane, he tells police it was Mary who actually killed John by poisoning him.

Monday says Mary and her lover, Harry Waldstrom, were the masterminds behind the entire murder plot. So both Mary and Harry Waldstrom are arrested for murder, which charges are dropped against Waldstrom due to lack of evidence. So on May 4th, 1891, there's the trial of Monday McFarland and Mary Cheety. McFarland recants his confession. Of course, he says that he was coerced by police, and both he and Mary plead not guilty. Mary uses John Cheety's old attorneys for her defense, but of course, Monday is unable

to afford... Oh, wait. Melissa. There's Monday McFarland. Look at that dapper motherfucker. Seriously. No wonder he had a leather, steel-bound cane. Yeah.

That guy's your hairdresser? I mean, you're gonna... Okay. I mean, that's a good picture. That's a great one. This is a different illustrator than the one who had the eye bleeder. So Monday can't afford... You wouldn't be able to tell by his motherfucking top hat, but he can't afford a lawyer, so

he has to get court-appointed lawyers. Now, John Cheety's brother, Dennis, comes in from Denver. He's also rich. He's a banker in Denver. He hires two Pinkerton detectives and a whole team of attorneys to work on this case. He also enlists the assistance of a reform politician named John Fitzgerald, who was anti-gambling and one of John Cheety's biggest enemies. So Fitzgerald is an appointed co-administrator of John Cheety's estate, which means if Mary's

found guilty, Dennis and John Fitzgerald get all control of Cheety's estate and his sole fortune. Fuckin' sidebar. Dennis doesn't seem like an old name. I'm so surprised that there's a Dennis back in the 1800s. You're right. Yeah. That's a 70s name.

That's a 70s name. Dennis comes in and he's got really long sideburns and an acoustic guitar, and he just wants to chill. Jam and chill. You're like, Dennis, are you wearing sandals? It's 1891. Yeah. Quit chasing the summer and get to work.

Come on. Take that pukashell necklace off and get serious about this case. What's also interesting is the law about a spouse not being able to inherit their, would you say other spouses? Spouses. You just have to say spouse again. To see spouse's fortune if they are being tried for their murder, that was a brand new law that had gone into effect nine days before John's murder, so it had just happened.

This was such a high-profile and divisive case that it took a week and they had to screen 216 potential jurors to find 12 people who hadn't already formed a biased opinion about this case. Because you were either fucking pro-gambling or fucking Jesus is on your shoulder and your pissed, like they couldn't find anybody that was in the middle. Well, they did. They did eventually. So then once they're selected, both the prosecution and the defense agree to try Mary and Monday

McFarland together, each believing that that would weaken the other side's case. So Monday McFarland recants his confession, but it's still read aloud in court by the prosecution. And that ends up being the only evidence that they have. The rest is purely circumstantial. McFarland claimed Mary poisoned John, but when a chemist analyzes John's stomach, liver, spine, and other organs, there are no traces of poison found. So that actually could have been his story that everyone's, oh yeah, yeah, the wife poisoned

him, of course she did. So after 18 days, this is kind of miraculous, the jury finds both Monday McFarland and Mary Sheedy not guilty of the murder of John Sheedy. I did not think that was going to happen. I didn't either. And I wrote this up after the trial Monday McFarland gets the fuck out of dodge moves away from Lincoln and you know, whenever he hears from him again, I bet you he changed his name to Wednesday.

In 1892, Mary Sheedy marries another man named Max Burst, who works as a salesman for the American Tobacco Company, and they moved to San Francisco, I'm so sick of the sound of my own voice. In 1893, Mary tries to sue for control of John's estate, but the brother Dennis, the right of the estate had been transferred to him after the case. Mary had been awarded a small monthly allowance. And so she was like, I think I should have the estate and they're like, no. And she goes, can I have a slightly bigger allowance?

And they're like, no. And she's like, sounds good, I'm just going to stay here. So she loses her case and she lives the rest of her life in beautiful Northern California. And that is the story of the murder of John Sheedy. Oh my God. Yeah. So did she do it? I mean, it's hard to say because the whole thing is there were probably 30 different

people who wanted that guy dead. So is it easy to blame the wife? Is it easy to blame the probably one of five black people in town? If your name is Dennis, you can fucking blame whoever you want. If Dennis comes in with his Colorado cash and says whatever the fuck he wants. I mean, like it didn't seem like, you know, like we're going to get the square answer. That's bananas. I like to present stories where not only is there no solution, but it's also just kind

of weird feeling at the end. I don't think she did it. I don't think she did. But I mean, I feel like probably over the years, people have put it together where it's like, well, you know exactly how many husbands she's had and you know exactly how many affairs she's had. Right. So I feel like that drives you all the way to like, then she poisoned him where it's

like, well, no, she didn't actually science says she didn't poison him. If two had been poisoned, two husbands, maybe I would think it was. If two husbands that had poisoned, I'd have a way better story for you tonight. So speaking of weird stories, we always talk about how we go into these towns and we're like, how the fuck have we not heard about this story? And then you hear about it and you're like, holy shit. So this is one of those. This is the murder of Carrie Farber.

And I got most of this, I didn't have a ton of information. And then I watched an episode of the award-winning show, Snapped. I don't think it's won any awards. But it's fucking good and it gives you a lot of information and details, et cetera. I think it won a Tony. Great. Yeah. It's a good one.

And a Grammy for the opening music. It's got awards everywhere. Okay. So, Carrie Farber, she's born and raised in Macedonia, Iowa, what? Not the original Macedonia. Well, the one from Iowa, little known fact, is the original one. Is that true? Yeah.

Okay, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stephen. Stephen. Uh, she's at Macedonia Wikipedia page.

She's fucking totally — oh, there's your — all guys, John Cheety is buried underneath this timstone to this very — hopefully, to this very day. We got a hope. Um, so she's fucking brilliant, super high IQ smart, funny, but she's also like super friendly and outgoing. loves her. She gets a degree in computer science while she's in college, which is probably the hardest degree to get. We're never getting a what's it called degree in that where they give it to you. Or anything. I mean truly. She has a kid while she's in college which

she speaks out about but ends up raising her kid as a single mom and her son Max is like the light of her fucking life. They're super close. And as she raises him with the help of her family, she dates casually. So her family didn't ask any questions when she was like I'm dating this dude named Dave from Council Bluffs. I'm going to go spend the weekend with him. And they're like great. Have fun. She had met him just a couple weeks earlier and was spending the weekend with him. So Monday, November 13th, 2012, she's supposed to leave his house and go live the rest of her life. But she doesn't show up for her job in Omaha and she doesn't pick up her son from school that day. So of course her friends

and family are like this is out of character. What the fuck. But right away she starts sending text to her family being like hey, I'm just going to fucking split town right now. Goodbye. I need to like clear my head or whatever the fuck. Leave me alone. And it's of course out of character. I feel like this has come up a couple of times. I feel like there should be everybody should get a system set up with their family. That if everybody agrees, like talk about it at Thanksgiving. If you're going to text me to tell me you're leaving for a while, like going to Cuba or whatever the fuck, bullshit thing these people make up, that there has to be like a safe word the person actually includes in the message where

it's like and this is how you know. Or you have a safe word and if you're texting someone like everything's fine, nipple. You know, like things aren't fine. Oh, my nipples itch or whatever. I don't know why I went with nipple. Mom? Is everything fine, mom? We don't usually talk about nipples that much. Yes, nipples. We're just trying to set up safety systems. Yes. You pick your own fucking word. No, you don't. It's nipple. Don't pick, don't pick Georgia's. Georgia already has nipple claim. You could do areola if you want. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. Yes, I totally agree with that. And we're like, call me and they're like, nope. That's like red flag. Yeah. Okay. So just said that big news shouldn't

be texted. Right. Lots of things shouldn't be texted, but especially I'm leaving for this. An undetermined amount of time. That's right. If there's not three exclamation marks after every sentence in my text, you know it's not me. Okay. And like a cat with heart, the cat emoji with hearts in its eyes, not me. Not you? No. Okay. Nipple. And then she starts texting her friends, being like, fuck you, leave me alone and being like vulgar with them, which is so not her. Telling them to leave her alone. And she said, I asked my son, Max, if he wanted to come with me. He said, no. So I just left. And Max is already like a kid. So he's like, that's bullshit. And then erotic? No. Erotic messages start

appearing on her Facebook. And Carrie's mother, of course, knows that her daughter would intentionally disappear and leave her son behind. So her mom a couple days later files a missing person's report. And when the police ask if Carrie has any issues with mental health, she has to tell them that Carrie was actually diagnosed bipolar. But her meds were like, you know, helping her manage that. And she was fine. But of course, the investigation, the police hear that and they're like, oh, well, she got off her meds and ran off. And don't take it that seriously. But they still kind of look into it. About two months after Carrie seemingly skips town, on January 10, 2013, her 2002 Ford Explorer is located in Dave.

The dude she was spending the weekend with in his apartment complex right there. But he's the one who calls it in. He's like, this fucking car just showed up. And they, but they don't find any signs of foul play. So this dude Dave, they're like, let's look into him. Great. They track him down and question him. They're like, what the fuck? She's been missing since she left your house, supposedly what's going on. And he's like, oh, hell no, I haven't seen her. In fact, she's been sending me fucking harassing texts and emails as well and like hands over his phone. So shortly after she left that morning, Carrie sent a text to Dave saying she wanted to move in together. And they'd only been dating for

like two weeks casually. Yeah. Yeah. So she's like, hey, I know we're dating casually for two weeks, but let's move in together. And we're also dating other people, but let's do it. And he was like, no. And then she starts sending him harassing and threatening emails including or in tax, including over 12,000 emails sent from her email address, 12,000. And I get numbers wrong all the time. How much time had passed? I don't know. Well, like a year. So this, this goes on for a few weeks. This goes on for, let's say the duration of it, which is three years. Oh, okay. So 12,000. Who's still alive? Yeah. Maybe it's right away. I don't know. Which in today's emails is half a million. Yeah. And then she

starts sending them from different email accounts that have variations of her name, Carrie Farber along with his last name, like saying, you know, I'm obsessed with you and like you write it in a notebook when you're in sixth grade. Exactly. But instead now it is you make an email address about it. And thousands of texts from her from more than 25 different phone numbers. So she claims she's in the text that she's pregnant with his baby and another one asks how to find a hit man to kill this other girl that Dave is dating because they're both casually dating each other. I'm dating other people and she's like, I'm going to fucking hire a hit man and kill this girl you're dating. And contains

details of Dave's whereabouts, photos of his apartment and his car, and shows pictures of the girl he's dating to kids, like stocking. And they have subject lines like watching and see I'm really here and shit. Yeah. I want to see Dave. There we go. Dave's like, I fucking hate email. I hate it. I can't do it anymore. That's a screen grab from the snapped episode. There we go. Okay. So then one day, Carrie's mom who's of course like fucking frantic and like this isn't my daughter gets a message from the Carrie saying, hey, I sold all my furniture since I'm not fucking coming back. Here's a photo of the check that I got from the person who's buying the furniture for like five grand. They're going to come

get the furniture and I need you to give it to them. And Carrie's mom's like, fuck no bitch. You better call me. I know this isn't you. And so she takes the check to the investigators and the check is signed by a woman named Liz Gullier. So the cops go to talk to her and she's like, fuck that shit. I'm the girl friend who's dating Dave who Liz is stalking me or who is, I'm being stalked by Carrie as well. Does this make sense? Yes. That one I got, yes. So she's the girl he's dating. It's like she's being set up to be involved in that. Right. Okay. So Liz Gullier, she's a single mom. She's from Michigan. She moved to Omaha to raise her two kids, met Dave online. And they had casually dated on and off, but

agree they're both, and I wrote DTF. And that's just their thing. It's casual. Yeah. You know? Wink tongue out. Winky. Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, no. So Liz was currently off with Dave and that she had run into Dave when Carrie and Dave were together and was like fine with it. And she's like, I'm getting harassed by Carrie as well. So she's sending me threatening messages, calling me a whore. Her car gets spray painted saying like fucking whore and all this shit. And the harassment does bring Dave and Liz back together and they start dating, bonding over their mutual insanity, things happening to them. And they even get texts from Carrie when they're together. So then Liz, so then Dave gets an email from

Carrie and she's like, I'm gonna light Liz's fucking house on fire if you don't start dating her. And then Liz calls Dave and is like, my fucking house is on fire. No. Yeah. And he like rushes over to be by her side, her fucking house burns down and shit. Her kids are fine, but all her pets die. I know. When you say all her, there's a few. Oh, sorry. You don't want. Sorry. What am I doing? Sorry. I'll just say one is a snake, which it's just two snakes. Don't worry. Nobody should care. No, I love that was me trying to solve the problem I started. Sorry. There's one guy with a Python wrapped around his neck in the back that's single tear going down his face. I'm sorry. So there we are. Okay. So it's

fucking three years of this. And Carrie has missed birthdays, including her son's birthdays and her son graduates from high school and she misses that. She's missing important family things that are obviously it's not real. And her mom and family is adamant that it's not her writing the emails and post it's not fucking Carrie. So in December 2015, this is the girl dating Dave. She goes to the Omaha cold case unit to show them more threatening emails by Carrie and she's like, I'm being harassed. You need to get this woman away from me. But this time she says that the emails are being sent from Dave's other fucking ex from before her. So it's a woman named Amy that David had been with for more than a decade or almost

a decade and it's the mother of her two children, his two children. Is this making sense? Do I need to clear anything up? Okay. So Liz is like, now I'm being harassed by this other woman, maybe it's the other woman who's doing all this shit. And so the day after Liz goes to the investigators with the emails from Amy, Liz calls 911 and she's like, hey, I've been shot in the leg. Yes. She's walking at Big Lake Park in North Council Bluffs when a woman comes up behind her with a gun and tells her to get to the ground and then says, how do you like fucking Dave and shoots her in the leg and runs off? Sorry, can I do a quick sidebar? Yes. What is it like to fuck Dave? Because these people are nuts about

it, apparently. Yeah. What tricks did he learn? Winky face, tongue out. It's like a really romantic dinner at a beautiful Italian restaurant and then Dave leans forward and he's like, hey. All right. You know how Dave is. I know how to do it. And of course Liz is down at the hospital. She survives despite a lot of blood loss. The police come in and are like, this was Amy, right? The ex. And she's like, I fucking think it was. So police go and question Amy and she's like, yo, I was home with my kids and my fucking pajamas when this happened and then her neighbor corroborates that. So they're like, this is weird. Scratch the head thing. So they dig further into the emails and online shit and they find a YouTube

video made under Carrie's name. And in it, the video shows outside Dave's apartment showing his house and stockery shit from Carrie's YouTube account. But then they're like, let's dig deeper and they see that the IP address goes to none other than Liz. Oh, my God. Shocking. Okay. So. I felt great though because I was putting it together and I'm like, it's fucking Liz. Liz went to the lake and shot herself in the lake. God damn it. That's right. So police bring Liz back and they pretend that they have found Carrie's remains and they say, we think it's Amy, the other ex. You need to send, like, try to get her to tell you shit. So Amy's, Liz is like, great. I'm on it. I'm a detective and shit. So then they,

Liz is like, look, I got all these emails from Amy graphically detailing how she killed Carrie and would do it again to Liz if she didn't stay away from Dave. So Liz, who's fucking crazy, obviously. No, we can say that. So the emails say, that are supposedly from Amy say, quote, I attacked her with a knife. I stabbed her three to four times in the chest and stomach area. I took her out and burned her. I stuffed her body in a garbage bag. And she identifies Carrie's yin-yang symbol tattoo on her thigh and says, like saying, you know, I know she has this tattoo. This is how I know. And now you know I'm not lying about offing. I really did kill Carrie and I'll do it. And I did it in her own car. This

is what the email supposedly from Amy is. So police are like, okay. And they check Carrie's car again. They had found it and hadn't found anything weird. And this time they removed the cover from the passenger seat and find a large spot of blood in the middle of the seat cushion and to show that the blood belongs to Carrie Farver. And they also had found a pack of mint gum way back when they looked at it. And the only fingerprints from the entire car were on that pack of mints. And they had run them. They hadn't matched anything. They run the fingerprints to Liz Goyer. And obviously it's her fingerprints. Okay. And then the emails that are allegedly from Amy are traced back to Liz's computer. And of

course they determined both the house fire and the shooting was self-inflicted. She loves him. So much. She burned her own house. She burned her own fucking house out. Killed her own fucking pets. Killed her own two snakes. It's a disgrace. Am I right sir? It's a disgrace. So even though they don't have a body, of course, and they know how hard these cases are to try when there's no body, police are afraid for now Amy's life and Amy's children lives because Liz was already stalking Amy now. So they arrest Liz who's now 41 and charge her with first degree murder of Carrie Farver. So here's Liz. Oh, Liz. So she goes by Shana, Shana too, but it's Liz. Oh. Don't worry about it. Okay. Now who cut Shana Liz's

hair? And who shaved her eyebrows? Lights the house on fire. Yeah. Do you think she went right before they took her mug shot? She's like, hold on. Oh, yeah. Is it one of those? Yeah. Liz, what are you doing? How do you write 12,000 emails? Dude. I can't return one. And I'm pretty sure I found her Pinterest page in my searches as well, which is so fucking weird. From jail? No, I think it's like an old one that's just still there. Oh, and it's just pictures of emails. All just like 12,000 pictures of emails. It's very weird. So, okay. They arrest her and charge her with first degree murder of Carrie Farver. And in the email, she's alleging that Dave was in on it the whole time and knew everything, but

it turns out he didn't. And when he finds out, he's like, oh, shit, I should have, he like freaks the fuck out, obviously. And he hands over, he's like, I have this old tablet computer that she left in my house. Like, take this and see if there's anything on it. And they find a memory card in it that, of course, is everything is deleted, but you can't delete everything. Or anything. Or really anything. And they find a series of photos on Liz's memory card of a decomposing foot and thigh that had been dismembered. No. Yeah. She took pictures. Yeah. So they check with Carrie's mom and be like, what tattoos do Carrie have and the tattoos match what's on the photos of the dismembered leg input. I know it's

actually sad. And one of the tattoos was a Chinese symbol for meaning mother. I know. So Liz goes to trial in May of 2017. She's like, I don't want a jury. I just want the judge, dude. And the defense... Good call. Good call, Liz. One good decision. Yeah. Well, the defense argues that this case is circumstantial. There's not enough physical evidence linking Liz to the crime and prosecutions like, okay, well, here's more than 40 pieces of evidence show that Liz made more than a dozen email accounts to send false information for over three years. And all this other fucking crazy evidence. How do you keep the passwords? I can't... The passwords alone. Yeah. How do you... Yeah. How do you do anything? Choose

Nick's 35. Are you just going and going? Is that your password? Yeah. My password's choose Nick's 35. Now I have to change it. Three snakes. The prosecutors, of course, tell the judge that the emails are evidence of premeditation and the graphic details of her proof of confession, obviously. So District County Judge Timothy Burns finds Liz guilty of first degree murder, which in Nebraska is an automatic life sentence without the possibility of parole. Good job. Good job, guys. Isn't it funny? It's taken us so long to get here and this is the state where we like the laws the most. We're staying. Only shows here now. Wow. You wouldn't... And so just this past November of 2018, the Nebraska Supreme Court

rejects Liz's appeal due to the overwhelming circumstantial evidence in one of the strangest romantically obsessed murders the state has ever seen. Agreed. Yeah. Carrie's family are just relieved to have proof that the woman Liz tried to make Carrie seem for three fucking years isn't the woman that she was. They tried to make her look crazy that someone who'd abandoned her son and her family and like a stalker and they're relieved to finally know what happened to Carrie. And Carrie's son Max is following in his mother's footsteps and pursuing a degree in computer engineering. Nice. I know. And that is the murder of Carrie. Oh, my God. All right. Okay. Cool. Um, hometowns have been fucking great this weekend. You

guys, unbelievable. So good. Such good stories. Um, oh, but I think there's someone we met that probably has a story that we shouldn't invite up. Do you remember her name? Yes. Her name is Cindy and she said she was in road G. Cindy, there she is. Hi. Come this way and then cross over to Vince. You have to go to Vince. Listen, if you run into us in the elevator at our hotel and we like your blouse, you can bring the house lights down now. Oh, look. Hi. Hi, you guys in the middle too. Look at the rich people. Whoa. Whoa. The royal family's here. Holy shit. Oh. Hi, Cindy. Cindy. Cindy rode down the elevator with me and didn't say a word until he got off and said, I'm coming tonight by the way. I

was like, oh, should I go? I felt like a terrible stalker. But you also, right as we were walking in the door, we were like, nice to meet you. And then she goes, I have a story for you. Just like that. Yeah. So what's your story, Cindy? Wait, first, where are you from? Um, I live in Lincoln, Nebraska. Well, come here. Yeah, let's send her up. I know a lot about Lincoln, Nebraska and the booster ethos of the 19th century. I'll tell you about it later. Okay. So I have to give a little back story. I was invited to speak at the Nebraska penitentiary to their Toastmasters group. Do you want to tell us what you do for a living or is not? Well, at that point, I worked at the University of Nebraska and I was on their speaker's

girl. And I was asked to come speak to them about employment opportunities. And I go to the penitentiary and it's in the late nineties. And they start through the introduction. Well, I should back up. First, the thing I know when you go to the state penitentiary is that they search you and I was wearing hush puppies. And if you ever owned hush puppies, they have shanks and hush puppies. So I had, yeah, so there's metal shanks in the shoes. We can't let this get out. So when that happened, I had to remove my shoes and then get a much more personal search than I intended. Hush puppies. Yeah. So it wasn't good. Did they like suspect you a little bit? Well, I don't know what they thought I was doing. Protocol.

So needless to say, then I go into this meeting room. Can I ask one more question? Yeah. Did you have to be like in your underwear? No, it wasn't quite that bad. There was a female I was searched by a female, fortunately. Okay, good. It was still too much touchy. Agreed. Okay, sorry to interrupt. So I go in and they start doing introductions and all of a sudden I'm looking around the room and I see this dude and I realize I'm like, oh, shit. I know who this guy is. And so I have to get my notes out because you use your notes. So I throw it on us. We're only letting you do this because of the search. Are you bringing up murder pedia? She's bringing up murder pedia. No, I'm on the DCS inmate search. Okay. And

your password's two snakes. So if anybody, when I went to the university, there was a killer killing in 1993 in Chicago of a woman that was from Gothenburg, Nebraska. Her last name was Nordbrook. And she was married to her high school sweetheart named Scott Burkey. And what happened in that case is she was found bludgeoned about two blocks from where their apartment was in town. And they were never able to figure out who the suspect was. But the family was convinced that the husband had actually done the crime. And so consequently they were not able to prove it. But what they did do is the family sued so that he could not collect any of the proceeds from her estate. And at one point that would have been about

$2 million. And then what was really bizarre was about four years later, there was a stream, there was four crimes that he committed. And he went and did four robberies in Omaha, like bam, bam, bam, and ended up in the Nebraska State Penitentiary. So that's how I got to meeting was in the state pen. So he did these four crazy robberies and all of this happened. And they still were never able to convict him of the crime. But what did happen was he had five years within the in the Nebraska State Penitentiary. He gets out, he moves to, he marries another woman, and then was moved out to California. He was in, I think it's Rockland, California. No idea. I think it's up by Sacramento. It's 30 miles from Sacramento.

He was working at a Starbucks. I know that. That adds up real good. But he moved out there and they, he had attempted suicide a couple times. He was dealing with depression issues and all of that happened. And in 2003, they found him hanging from a tree without a suicide note. And they were never able to come finally figure out that the murder had happened. But I think they were, I think there's a lot of people that feel like justice was done. Wow. So it was, it was pretty wild. You met him and taught him stuff. Yeah. Well, I would say, I would say that I got a little nervous. And so my critique of my speech at the penitentiary, they said she seemed a little nervous. I don't know why. I feel like if you weren't, you'd

be a sociopath. If you were just like, here's like, amazing. Thank you. Cindy, everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you. Awesome. Yeah. Good event. Oh my God. Toastmasters at the state pen. And no thanks. You can leave them to Johnny Cash. Thanks, Omaha, for having us. Wow. We thought for a little while, we weren't going to be able to do this show. We thought for a little while that this show might not happen. And the idea that everybody came is quite a humongous compliment. And we can't really thank you enough for the way you guys show up, the way you guys participate with this podcast is mind blowing to us. Like we just, we just can't believe it. Every time we meet one of you guys and you're like, I

feel like I know you or you're my best friend. And it's like, well, you fucking do know us and we are. And I love, yeah, this like community you guys have and it's so touching because I wish I had that when I was younger and now I do and it feels so good and I'm so glad you guys have that as well. And also we talk to people and they're always like, I actually came by myself tonight, which is an unbelievable thing that a bunch of you now, people that have anxiety disorders, people who don't like other people, people who prefer to stay home and watch the ID channel are coming out to a major event and hanging out because they know they're with their people. And it's the best. Thanks for letting us be the weird

spokespeople for that. We want you to stay safe and do God's missions. Always. But more than that, we want you to stay sexy and thank you. Hi, everyone. Hello and welcome to a very special segment we have right now. Very excited. We're with Trist Wood. She's the creator and director of the five part docu series that's out now on Amazon Prime Video called Ted Bundy falling for a killer, which we are so excited. Like I got chills watching the trailer. The inspiration for me was OJ Made in America, which was life changing. Amazing. Amazing. From a storytelling perspective. And Ezra took the idea of looking at a true crime story through the culture, meaning through race in America. So that's what gave us the

idea to do the Bundy story through the lens of gender. Right. And I had never even considered the time and place of the women's movement during this period, that women were finally getting some authority and how Ted Bundy just scared that from everyone. It hadn't even crossed my mind. Well, it was really interesting to go back because I lived through that. The idea that this happened at a time when women were finally gaining traction, it really is told to comment on what the women experienced. So it's like, yeah, we can do this stuff. Yeah, it's really happening. And then wamo, not so fast. Yeah. So that's the one thing that can make us reconsider our freedom and push us back. And so that was sort of the

idea behind, behind really showing what was happening in that moment. So it made it worse. This interview that you got with Liz is pretty huge. I think a lot of us who have been following the case since we were very young have always wanted to hear from her and what she went through. Did you meet her before and have to talk her into it or how did you get this? So, you know, I met her and I made my case. We bonded over the recovery of both single mothers to most of our adult lives. And so there's a lot of trust around that sort of stuff. But she just sort of thought about it for a while and we had a few conversations and then she was in. And I think her reason for wanting to do it, there was a confluence

of reasons. She really liked our take that it was through the lens of gender. She wanted to work with a female director. And I think as many of the women in the series understand that time marches on for us all and the eyewitnesses to this case are not going to be around forever. I think she wanted to be part of a film that enabled other women's stories. And having said all of that, she didn't jump in with both feet. She was always very nervous about it. But eventually she came around. We did seven or eight interviews with her, long ones. And she was great. She was great interview and super honest. And I could see her working things through. She hadn't thought about for years. That was the bravest thing to me, not

exposing who she was because she was kind of living sort of anonymously. It was actually facing on camera some pretty dark stuff. And she did that really boldly. Yeah, so brave. So in talking with these women, was there anything that surprised you in getting that take? For me, the roommates of Linda Healy, there are many things, but they moved back into that house. Did they really? Yeah. Wow. I know. I know. Without even knowing who it was, it could have been a neighbor. They just took a stand. Yeah, took a stand, which I thought I wouldn't have brave. Yeah, I thought it was really cool. Amazing. This has been such a so great to talk to you. It's really an honor to have you. Thanks. Ted Bundy

falling for a killer on Amazon. We're so excited.