My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 232 - Live at the De Meervaart in Amsterdam (2018)

Episode Date: July 23, 2020

Karen and Georgia cover Willem van Eijk and Elsje Christiaens.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I know. Amazing. I've never been here. You've never been here. Oh, no, you were here. I have been here. Yeah. Shit.

All right. Let's start over. But when I was here, I was here in high school on one of those tours where you go to one country a day in like, yeah, so it's just like, we were just in France and we got drunk in France. Now we're going to get drunk in Amsterdam. Whose idea was that? You know, my high schools.

American high schools, you guys. They were real stupid. Yes, we got high. High school, yeah, we did. Well, I've never been here and I am madly in love with it. I met four cats yesterday. Oh, and each one was cuter than the next. They were all happy to see me.

In the beginning. And then I just got real grabby. That one, it looked like you guys, it looked like you're going to take that first one home. Yeah. Then. And it was a moment of like joy because we went and sat down at this outdoor cafe by a canal. It was so beautiful.

I had this great dress on and we were having a beer and it was like my fucking ideal day. And then this fucking, the first cat comes up and we're just like, oh my God, this is so cool. And then it, I was going to like try to put it on my lap, but I was scared I was going to get scratched and everything and instead it was like, give me a minute and just jumped on my lap without even asking. And I was just in heaven and I was petting it and petting it and petting it and it took so many pictures, so many pictures.

And then it was done. So it bit me and ran away, which I totally respected. It was like done. Bye. Goodbye. And now I'd say she has about four days to live roughly. It was a fight like Mimi's I was used to it or it was like no, no breaking of skin. Yeah.

Fuck you. Goodbye. But what's funny is when that cat first walked up, it was like the cutest cat you've ever seen. And when that cat bit you and ran, I was like, God, that cat was dirty. Suddenly I was like, oh, it's covered in soot. Yeah. It's doing.

I definitely wouldn't have done that if I were home because that could just bring my dirty dress back to the hotel room and put it somewhere, but I wouldn't have brought it home to my house. What I loved is that I would say about 20 minutes later, George is like, I'm covered in fleas. That cat had fleas. That cat had lice. What were you saying?

Pleas. Pleas. Yeah. It was really funny. It definitely had fleas. She was like full body fleas. I'm like, the cat was on your dress. The fleas haven't had time to leave that dress area.

They're sticking around. Yeah. Speaking of, we had our laundry done. We've been on tour for not very long, but we had our first day off yesterday. And oh my God, we smelled so bad, our clothes, these dresses. Mine still does. Oh, right. I couldn't machine wash this dress and I was like, I should just roll the dice and

try it because talk about cats. This dress smells like 19 cats, panicked and peed all over it. It's not a good smell at all. But when I collected up all my laundry to get done, I was just like, no, just get the key items that like are depressing me the most. I have one sweatshirt that smelled so much like yogurt. It was just, it was really horrible. And I was like, I'll just power through it and then we got our laundry done.

I was like, Ben's miraculous. I signed a fucking partner who will go do laundry in a foreign country where he doesn't know, understand the directions on how to do the laundry was just like, he's like, they smell clean. I don't know if they're actually clean. Yeah. That's all that matters. It's amazing.

Yeah. Amazing. That was the same night. We went to sleep. We got there. We got into town. Got here. Sorry.

And there we got that town that we're all staying in and we got to town. I went to sleep, I think immediately and then I woke up at like 1130, like, oh no. Now I'm hungry. I didn't eat dinner. I don't know what to do. Yeah. So I just walked out of the hotel, started walking around this neighborhood, walked and walked and walked.

You did? Yeah. And then. By yourself at night? Yeah. I was like, look at all these beautiful canals. What bad thing could happen to me down this side alley? Yeah.

Um, yeah. The next day when I saw it, I was like, that was a huge mistake. I should not have done that, but eventually I found my way to a McDonald's, of course. Of course. It's kind of fun though. I ended up in that McDonald's. They have self-serve like, we don't have these in the States, which is hilarious because no one can be trusted to do anything by themselves, but they have actually big computer boards

where you walk up and touch things and order your own food. You're like, yes, we know. I've never seen it before, and I don't speak this language even remotely, like even slightly. So I was just touching green buttons that seemed like a good idea to touch. And then there was finally one where it came down. I couldn't figure out what to touch. And the only thing that looked right was a red button where I'm like, they can't have done it that, like they're, that's tricky as fuck if they made it a red button.

So I looked it up. The go is not red button, but like order is going to be a red button. Yeah. Okay. So I looked it up on my phone and the word meant destroy. I'm just like, I should probably just press this button and get back to my hotel room. I think either way, you just, it's truly. It's all destruction.

It's all destruction. Yeah. At McDonald's. Dude, I get it. Oh, so yesterday we were, we were writing around, no we weren't, we were walking around. We were trying to avoid people writing around. I did hit a guy in the leg and I was just like, oh, I'm at like a bicycle and I felt like such a fucking asshole, American is just like, you know, yeah.

And then with your camera all out in front of you, then this guy on a bike who looked like he's just tall, blonde. He looked like he was like a Olympic swimmer and he was just riding his bike. They're like, we all look like that. Pretty standard over here. He has headphones on and I just hear, we hear him as he goes by, you go, but I'm going to do it to you. He goes, poke, poke, poke, poke her face, poke her face, just out loud and then zooms away.

It was the most amazing picture me riding a bike that I'm like looking Nordic. Now when I heard it and I can't remember if it was before or after we had visited a coffee house or whatever they're called. Pretty sure it was after. A pot cafe. It just sounded to me like, I was like, that's kind of brave that he's just making sounds on his bike. Maybe that's a thing they do here.

We'll have to learn about it later. And Georgia turns to me and goes, that was fucking Lady Gaga. He was singing. I was like, that's rad. It was this moment of like, I feel like the stone gods, you know, because like when I smoked pot, I got really paranoid usually and like kind of screwed up and like I'm not good at it, but I was, it was during the day and I was in Amsterdam, so I'm like, I'm going to do this.

And it was just this moment. I think we had just walked out of the cafe and it was like God going, what, here you go. It's going to be a good one. It was the right thing to do. Yeah. Poke, poke, poke, poke our face. Thank you.

God was like, I'm going to make this funny for you. You're going to, you're going to love it. I was smoking potting that way where I was just like this. I'm expecting to have happened to me. What happens to most of my American friends that come here. And they're like, oh man, I went to Amsterdam and then I ate this thing someone gave me and then I had a nervous breakdown in my hotel room and I was in the fetal position for four days.

Like the second we started smoking that pot, I was like, this could go very badly for one or all of us, but let's just do it and see what happens. And instead it was fucking delightful and perfect all day long. Because we didn't eat anything strangers handed. Oh, we did eat a meatball sandwich. Oh, that's true. Someone gave us. But we were in a restaurant.

Yeah. They didn't just hand it to us. What if it was the poker face guy rides by and he's like, poke their face, eat this. Georgia. I'm already swallowing it before you guys were like, you shouldn't eat it. No, no, no. Oh, I ate it already. Don't eat magic meatball sandwich.

That's a bad idea. I know. Also, I bet those, like we walked through the, um, like the market area where there was like every, it's so smart. Like just like have a pot cafe here and then just set up a stand of bullshit and everyone's going to come out and be like, Oh, it's this necklace that reminds me of my mother. How many do you want? 19?

Okay. I don't, it's meaningless to me. That's true. I almost bought a fucking menorah and I'm barely Jewish. Like I don't tell, I don't like the candles at Hanukkah, but you're like, it's meaningful. This is a sign. This is an Amsterdam menorah. This is symbolic of my experience here.

And then you get home and it's just a candleabra. You're like, wait, what the fuck? I was so stoned. I thought something was Jewish symbolism and it's not. I was seeing double. There was only four candles on this, but you did buy a necklace. I did buy, I bought in, I bought a necklace that reminded me of a necklace my mom used to wear until I got home and I was like, this is nothing like that necklace at all.

And I bought it at the first stand I saw it at which it cost eight and then I saw it incrementally as we walked. It was like $6.50, $5.00, fucking $3.50, I was just like, fine, what did I buy? Then the last one, they're like, please take this, just please take this necklace. They're like, we're giving these necklaces away. Oh, I did also, I bought what I thought was a lollipop at one of those stands. And we were both Vincent and I were like, oh, be careful. But it was just a lollipop, like I got, it was just green, I wish I had video, like

time-lapse video of me eating this lollipop because I was like doing stuff on my laptop and I would like take it and I would have it in my mouth and I would like literally time it out of like five minutes, now put it down, be careful, now wait 20 minutes, now see, okay, now five more minutes because I was not going to be the one that was like wandering the streets with my shirt off or whatever. 3 AM, Vincent and I are here to knock at our hotel. You guys, I'm crying, can I sleep with you? Please, I'm scared.

So it was like, I was like dosing myself, like I was at a hospital, like just fucking like taking my own pulse. I got to the fucking center, there was gum, I was like, this was not a lollipop in any fucking way. I just paid five bucks for candy. For a lollipop. For just a plain old lollipop at the market. Steven!

You idiot! You idiot, you budged a lollipop, he's not here by the way, it wasn't his fault. Don't awe. No, my cats aren't going to take care of themselves and they're also, if he wasn't there, then Elvis wouldn't have had anyone's laptop to barf on today. Not fucking kidding, guess who has to buy Steven a new laptop? Here's some breaking news from the podcast Homefront, Steven sent a text where I was like today I was like, hey can you look this thing up for me really quick and then he texts

me back, Elvis just barfed on my laptop and then sent me a short video of him trying to start up the laptop and it's starting and immediately shutting down. And I was just like, all right, talk to you later. Of course, he's like, I'm so sorry and you're like, you just had your laptop barf gone, don't apologize. He's apologizing to us. Elvis is getting, you guys, I'm sorry, but the Elvis and Mimi and Dot Instagram is about to go fucking advertising, advertising, because they need to make some fucking money because

laptops are not cheap. What kind of advertising are you going to do on that one? I don't know, cat food? Cat food or maybe some kind of an anti-nausea pills. Exactly. ModiMAD is something we have over there. I said backstage that sorry, Steven, you're getting Adele, you know, they still make those. It's a cheap computer.

You're just like, make your own computer and then bill me. What if I was like, well, I have, you can have my old laptop or my old MacBook Pro that's like, the heaviest this table and about as large. Yeah. Those ones that are like had blue on the back and then you could see here where you're like, Steven, we got you a computer. Don't worry about it. Yes.

You just have to leave it at Georgia's house and come here to use it. But don't come over too often, Steven. It'll be like an internet cafe that's only open from three to four. It'll be like a cat cafe. Yeah. I wonder if a cat barf on your laptop at a cat cafe would they have to buy you one? Probably not. Those the same rules go for my house then.

Because it's essentially a cat cafe. I mean, I'm still on that question of like, whoa, is there a certain insurance you have to buy for a cat cafe? Or if they bite you and then put fleas on your dress? Yes. I'm just suing Amsterdam if I get fleas, what an asshole. Everywhere we went, because we probably ended up going to like four of those cafes, we'd just walk and then be like, look, let's go in there.

It says feel good. Let's go in there. We just kept doing that. And everywhere we'd go, I'd be like, oh, I fucking love this song. And then write it down for like, this is going to be the Amsterdam mix. I tried to put the Amsterdam mix on in the green room backstage, me or George and I were both like, the fuck is this song? Turn it off.

Well, we were feeling good last night, we cut it yesterday because it was terrible music. We did end up in what we, oh, I have to tell you something. We were heading back to the hotel, but like, go to sleep. And we walked by this bar and I was like, this is the most beautiful bar from the outside, like exactly what I want to kind of dive in. We go in, it was the fucking cutest bar I was like, from the past, right? Which we don't have in Los Angeles, so it's very exciting to be near the past. It wasn't grimy.

Right. It was the best bar I've ever been to. I'm not going to pronounce the name right, but it turns out it was the first lesbian bar in Amsterdam. No way. The first gay bar in Amsterdam. Look it up. You'll find it.

It was amazing. It was, well, it had the best music. No, I did it. And it had those little, for some reason, it had these little tables that folded out from the wall. Are you guys familiar with, you always have these because they fold out and there's a light in the mirror? I was like, that's the perfect table for me.

What if we were just at McDonald's? We were so high we were at McDonald's the whole time. They serve these burgers. It was the best burger I've ever had. We're like, I love this song. It's ba-da-ba-ba-ba. I'm loving it. We got the fish and chips.

We got a fucking filet of fish and french fries. The best fish and chips I've ever had. Then we destroyed it all. Destroy. Oh wait, remember that, should we not relive it, that disturbing moment at the Laundry Mount when we were walking back to the hotel? On our way home. Don't remember that.

What happened? Oh no. You don't remember? Yes, I remember. We were walking by, we passed the Laundry Mount, Vince goes, oh, that's where I took all the clothes. And we're like, oh, me. And then there's a cat laying in the window.

And Georgia, we're all far enough along that we're like, cat again. I took a photo of every cat I met, including, including this cat that's just laying on its back all cute. And I go like, oh, I'm going to take a picture. And there's a girl sitting with her back to the window next to the cat. And she starts, it looks like she's just playing with the cat, like it's cute for the picture. But then she covers the cat's face from the picture and fucking moves it really hard away from the window.

I was like, is this like the red light district rule where you can't take pictures? You should post something. It was like no photos. She was no photos about the cat. But then I read an article that's really kind of interesting about how tourism has gotten so essentially bad in Amsterdam. There's so much tourism that like there was a woman they interviewed who lives right down there in like the beautiful part by Knell, who's like, there's just fucking douche, drunk

douchebags that are stoned walking by and barfing into her like planter all the time. Welcome to college, I guess, right? People are like, like second year collaging here in Amsterdam. And the one thing she said about that was the problem is you have to scoop it out. So I'd be pissed too. I was just trying to figure out what the cat ladies problem was. And I was like, maybe she has a point. Maybe somebody took pictures of that cat, put out a calendar, made $25 million.

She got nothing. The cat got nothing. The cat. People keep coming by to take photos of the famous cat for free. She's like, fuck all y'all. You got to have an Instagram account. Should we sit down? Oh, this is my favorite murder the podcast.

Oh, hi. Hi. Thank you. That's Karen Kilgarov. This is Georgia Hardstar. Hi. We're in Amsterdam. What?

You know, I wash my hands. Georgia keeps doing this thing instead of holding hands with me. Or she's holding it like a crab, but I don't understand it. Is it because this dress smells so bad? Yeah. Didn't want to tell you, but you said it first. It's not on my hands though. We've been to Amsterdam and now, and we went to Sweden and we got Swedish massages because

of course we did. We went to Oslo. Thank you. Thank you so much. This is crazy. Oh, let's sit down. No. Okay.

Do you want to? Okay. All right. So this, you guys. Hold on. I would have this in my house. Yeah. It's a good one.

It's a good one. Gorgeous. This is a very special live show. This is the first time we've ever had a square table. I'm not kidding. I like it. I know. It's so like, it's so Amsterdam, you know, the way they...

It's made of wood and there's tourist barf underneath it. Yeah. All right. There's my, I was looking for a mint before I left the dressing room just to have a quick mint and I couldn't find one, so then I put this piece of candy in my mouth, which is not good for the top of a talking show. What if I'm... No, don't put it on mine.

I didn't. What if... Okay. Let's see the scenario. You accidentally pulled the wrong piece of pot candy out last night. You didn't eat it and it turns out to this and so you suck on it during the show, get really fucking baked. Then I'd be like, I love this song and they're like, there's no song, no song.

Let's carve our initials into this. All right. When no one's looking. Yeah. This is a true crime comedy podcast. It gets confusing. We had to tell the customs dude in Ireland about it when he was like, what are you guys doing here?

And it was just really awkward for a minute and we told him and then you do it better than I do the voice. Well, because we had, he said, you know, what is the purpose of your visit? And then we were like, work and then he's like, what kind of work? And then we have to say it's a podcast, which we are figuring most people don't know or understand what like, especially a live podcast where it's like, no, you know, it's like a radio show, except where we do it in front of people. We make them come to a theater and look at us in our dresses at our table.

It's nothing special or we're apologizing. And then he asked the name of it. So then George just says the name hoping that we don't get arrested in Dublin. And instead of having any kind of a negative reaction, he goes, oh, yeah, there was some American girl came through here on Friday. She told me all about it, right? And then he goes, she wasn't seeing we're like, that sounds right. That sounds exactly right.

That's what it is. Kelly. That was our listener, Kelly. And then when we came through customs here, we said, like, oh, we're doing a live podcast and the guy goes, I'm not going to do the accent, obviously he goes, what, what, like in a bar? We were like, okay, yeah, you're, you're right. It totally should be in an empty bar, but I was so mad.

I know. I'm just like, do you have bars that hold over 800? Oh, forget it. Why am I yelling at a customs officer? That's a bad idea. Aaron, back off. Aaron, stop it. You're going to get us arrested.

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slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong and on my new podcast Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths and

cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton serial killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, in

the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Okay, you going first? Is it me? Yeah, right? Is it? Yes. Okay, great.

Go for it. I'm going to do Willem von Eich. They don't know him. They don't know him or they don't like him or he's here and it's awkward. I mean, I thought there would at least be a smattering of applause, like just some golf applause. That's it, that's it. No, no, no.

That's not a smattering. No, Mr. Damn, it is too late. They're like, well, wouldn't it be wrong to applaud for a serial killer? Yes. You're right. Yes, you're right. Some recognition for Christ's sake, because this man is considered one of the few real serial killers that's from here.

Oh, okay. I thought they'd be like, oh, I went to high school with them. Fine. So a lot of the information that's in this I'm about to tell you, it's very much Wikipedia based as most of my work is, but there's also a book called Anatomy of a Serial Killer that's written by, I want to pronounce his name, Steeze, but I bet you that's not how you pronounce it. Oh, we need to pick, oh, we need to pick it.

We need to pick a translator. Seats. Seats. Seats. Listen, we're picking a translator. Poker face. Poker face. Oh, okay.

I know how to pronounce it now. We are going to pick a translator. This is what we've been doing. You raise these two ladies. They look very professional. They're the only ones who can yell at us. This is how we've gotten to control the yelling. Yeah.

What's your name? Lee Ann. Lee Ann. Kim. Kim, and you're from here? Okay, great. What if they're from like North Carolina, but they're like, ooh, quickly, do the accent. Do an accent like a person from Amsterdam would have.

Are those the names that like when we were in Sweden, they would tell us their name, you know, or like introduce themselves to it and a name we couldn't pronounce and then we'd go, what? Try to pronounce it. And then they go, just Christie. It's Christie. Just call us Christie. Because we know you fucking Americans can't get it.

Willem von Eek. That's the other thing is I think when you, American English is like super nasal and it just like, nah, nah, nah, right. You know, you've heard us over and over. Then like you go to other countries and then it's kind of like, I feel like this language is more like you're inhaling. It's like, yeah. Von Eek.

Like keep it in. Oh. Shut up. Willem von Eek. Ike? Ike? Is it Ike? Yeah.

But it's not Ike. It's... Ike. It's... I'm choking on a steak. Okay. Willem von Eek is born, August 13th, 1941 in Kortarar, Netherlands. They don't even know how to help you.

Should I show you the paper? Kotat? Really? Yeah. Where? Where is it? Oh, I don't know. Kortarar.

I said Kortarar. You can't be like that if you're going to be the translator. We can't... This is not... It's not about perfection. It's about barely getting over the finish line. Please. Oh, my God.

It's a complicated... Okay. So his Willems is a complicated birth. Also, I'd never heard of anyone with the name Willem, except for Willem de Feu, the American actor. So I found this exciting also. So his is a complicated birth. Later in his life, doctors would speculate that he probably sustained some brain damage

during it. So he basically starts life with a head injury, which we all know is very bad for the child. Also his home life isn't ideal. His father is known as honest and a passionate man, whereas his mother is described as a bad housekeeper, withdrawn, unreliable, suspicious, and cold. Sounds fun. I can't... I wonder if they mean that she was suspicious of other people or if she was like touching

stuff all the time. She was the hand burglar. She was... She just had cold hands and weird eyes. Also bad housekeeper, that's a judgment call. And that should... Compared to who? Not me.

That's for sure. Also a bad woman that doesn't make, you know? A what? A bad woman that doesn't make. That's the worst way I could have said that. Bless you. Yeah, I'd know. I thought suddenly you were speaking...

I wouldn't tell you, I speak touch. Please don't start doing that. Not now. Okay, in elementary school, he's an outcast, of course, it always starts the same way. He gets the nickname Crazy Little Willem, which sounds like it could be fun and cute, but apparently was not. He's bullied, school is hellish, and it turns out later that he is... Like when he grows up, he's almost completely illiterate.

So he starts collecting dead frogs and bugs. I know. Right? What you do when you're a social outcast. Then people in the village start to notice that he's also very cruel to living animals. So his interest is in the deadness. He's especially cruel to dogs, cats, and ducks, which is very sad. How can you even catch a duck to be cruel to it, you know?

I think you just run after it and you just outrun it. It's a duck. That sounds hard. They don't have great running feet. When he's 10, he gets another concussion, or he gets his first outside the womb concussion. And for two years, he suffers from severe headaches. You've got to get that Tylenol with coding. Right?

All right. In high school, he's a loner, and according to him, women found him very creepy and disgusting. According to him? Jesus. Yeah. Well, a lot of us is according to him because the book Anatomy of a Zero Killer is like interviews with him. Okay.

Jail, jail-ass interviews. I thought you were going to say he wrote it. I was like, oh, no. No, he can't. Oh, right. Maybe he had a transcriber. Yeah, he could dictate it into a... Dictaphone.

One of those, yeah, a dictaphone. That's right. Okay, so he brings that up a lot later on in his crimes, that he basically blames the fact that women rejected him for the fact that he had to go ahead and end their lives, which I always think is so interesting. It's like, you know they found you creepy and disgusting, so you don't try to reverse that in any way or just work on anything. Just like stop having weird eyes like your mom or whatever.

No, just kill. Or find a chick who's in the creepy and disgusting. That's right. There's girls out there, ladies. Don't you have a creepy and disgusting club at your high school? Join it. Loss my place. So in high school, that's when he starts breaking into houses.

It's always the same. Breaking into houses, stealing stuff, underwear, petty crimes, and when he's 21, he starts to have these vivid dreams, which is what he told that author about, about raping and killing women, which most people call those nightmares, Willem, but whatever. Oh, no. He's quoted as saying, at first they were beautiful, but they became increasingly violent and inhumane. They were beautiful?

Well, like they were just plain old beautiful dreams. Then they became increasingly violent and inhumane. I dreamed of cutting, never firearms. Great. Thank you. Good sign. And from women I knew from our village or from the neighborhood. In the long run, it got worse, and when I was 29, 30, it became a real drama.

What? Drama. Oh my God. So much drama. So then he says that he would walk around all day thinking about these violent, horrible dreams that he was having and basically stay in this like creepy, disgusting fantasy all day long. So you know, you wonder why no one was attracted to you, maybe you're just like, ugh.

So 1966, he's 25. He very briefly marries and is divorced. In August of the same year, he serves eight months in prison because he helped steal, I don't know if this is translation or if it's just he's boring, but he helped steal lead and batteries with two other people. It sounds boring. That's sweet. You got to get that sweet, sweet lead.

What if it was something super cool, like a fucking time machine, but it translated to lead and batteries, right? And wires. And wires. Or maybe he was just making his own pencils. Either way, he's a creep. So he goes under a court ordered supervision, oh shit, I never looked this up. Maybe you'll know what this means.

Court ordered supervision of the Protestant probation. No. Like as if on cue, they both looked at each other and were like, what? I probably just means that I don't know. I highlighted it and everything to be like, go talk about, find out what that means. Then I just started putting on eyeshadow and I was like, I don't really care. I don't care. Maybe some kind of a church thing.

Sure. He had to go to church. So anyway, they do a psychological exam. They find out he has a tendencies toward anger and aggression. And they also, the examination shows that he has gross gaps intellectually, but not, I don't think that's a judgment call. I think they mean large. Okay.

It's just like, yeah, yeah. It's just like, you're this old and you only know that many words. What the fuck? Willem. Okay. So on, in June 1971, 15 year old Cora Mantell is taking the bus to Amsterdam to meet up with her boyfriend on the 20th of that month. She misses her.

Oh shit. She misses her bus home to I torn. I can say that I torn. I mean, now we're at the point where I just don't believe I can pronounce anything. So that's where she's from. There's from my torn. So basically she goes into Amsterdam to meet up with her boyfriend. She misses the bus because they're like, stand back for five minutes longer or whatever.

Or I mean in the park, wherever, whatever they're doing in love. So she ends up, she decides that she's going to hitchhike home. Yes. And it's 1971. Just the height of hitchhiking. So she ends up getting picked up by Van Eyck. Did I say it right? Ike?

Oh, she hates you. Here's three. Okay. So she has no idea anything's amiss other than he's creepy and disgusting. But it's a ride, whatever. Until they get to I torn and he drives her almost all the way home and then he goes a different direction. And then she starts to panic.

He stops the car. And according to his account, he says to her, we are going to say goodbye to each other. That's the creepiest thing. Yes. She's like, you mean out here in the middle of fucking nowhere? We're going to say goodbye to each other. So she tries to get out of the car. He grabs her scarf and he strangles her with her own scarf.

And then rapes her, drives her body to a dead-end road, strips her naked, throws her body into a ditch. She's not discovered until two days later on June 22nd, 1971. She was supposed to start a new job at a jewelry store in Al smear. Oh. The face you gave everyone about it. Did you hear that guy goes, yeah, she did it. She didn't even ask.

Kim brand new carrot. So she was supposed to, she had gotten this new job at a jewelry store. She was supposed to start it. She doesn't show up. And so, and her body hadn't been found, but she was missing. So then the jeweler becomes a suspect. Oh no. Yes.

And until they find her body. So nothing's proven. The case goes cold. Then three years later on August 19th, 1974, the lifeless body of 43-year-old, a 43-year-old nurse named Altjit van der Pla is found behind some newer near a corn field. It's terrible. She's been raped. Her stomach has been ripped open.

She's been disemboweled. Oh. And her left breast has been mutilated. She's been stabbed a total of 27 times. Holy shit. So there are six witnesses that report that they see Willem writing his moped around the scene of the crime that night after it happens. Before her body is found?

Uh, no, the night her body is discovered, he's just fucking buzzing the area. Chill dude. On his moped. Super chill. Can you imagine, like, oh, this awful thing. Yeah. Poke, poke, poke her face. Yes.

He's poker facing it all around. Put more like this on a moped, a creep on a moped is the worst kind of moped driver. You want that person to be, like, carefree, kind of like, yay, I've got the world on a string. More Wes Anderson and less, like, fucking Dracula. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So it turns out, so all these people tell the police, like, this guy is disgusting. And they find out that Willem lives down the street on a houseboat called, uh, the English Transatulant is the freedom. So the police go, they question him about the murder and he immediately confesses and he gets arrested on his dumb houseboat. I'm like very interested in houseboats. I think it would be super cool to live on one. Here it's like, we came out of a couple of those fucking cafes and we're like, look at

the boat. At one point, Vince is like, oh, we could, we could take a tour of the city on a boat. And I was like, but what if I can't get off the boat? I was just completely picturing myself of like, I step on the boat, they shut whatever the gate is, we take off and then I'm like, I can't do this. She jumped in the water, international incident. There is, there was a cat boat, push and boat, but we didn't go on it because I was, I already had fleas.

That's right. If that cat hadn't bit you, you would have been the captain of push and boat. I would have fucking moved on to it yesterday. Bye guys. We've been like, the show's canceled because Georgia won't get off the cat boat. Steven's like, I understand. Steven's like, I'll be there in 48 hours. Okay.

So he's confesses is arrested. He basically tells the police, I'm relieved. He explains that he saw Altja walking down the road. He got the idea to quote, do something with the woman. He goes back to the houseboat. He grabs a knife. He rides up behind her on his, uh, on his moped. He shows her the knife.

He threatens her, says, you have to come with me. He pulls her to the area where her body's found. He, uh, when she tries to fight him off as he's raping her, that's when he stops. On August 21st, Williams arrested on South's boat, I said that already, but it's written here twice. Um, and he confesses to the murders of both Altja and Cora Mantell. So at age 33, William Von Eich is tried and sentenced to 18, 18 years in prison and voluntary commitment to psychiatric hospital.

So the details of the murder are so horrifying that when the trial, um, when everyone gives their testimony in court, um, to, or, or several, it says, of the guards vomit in the courtroom. Cause it's so awful to hear. And the depressed describes him as a man without emotion and someone who has no remorse for his crimes. And he sentenced to 18 years. Yeah. I think that's max here.

I bet that, I bet he gets out quicker than that. Well, uh, five years later, he's still in jail. He's still in jail. Thank God. Um, he puts out, he's lonely. So he puts out a personal ad in the newspaper and from jail, from jail, explaining that he's a 38 year old man who loves houseboats and mopeds and he's looking for a relationship with a woman.

Hello. And he specifies in his ad that children are not a problem. Oh, great. Yeah. So gather around children. Um, so a woman named Audrey responds to the ad. They begin to correspond. I think over here they call them pen friends, which makes me laugh because in America we

call them pen pals. So stupid to you, right? So it's pen pals is dumb to you. Pen friends is dumb to us. Oh, the world a crazy place anyway. It's a small world after all. Okay. So eventually she comes to visit him in prison.

He tells her he, that he has murdered two women. He fesses up to her. You think she would have asked about that beforehand, like the first letter. What are you in for? Hey, hey, quick. I bet she's not typing on a computer. Hey, quick question. What about a wall computer?

What if she's typing on that McDonald's menu board, destroy that shit? Maybe she was on a typewriter. That's what I was doing. Well anyway, either way, he keeps it from her until they meet in person. Then he says, I've murdered two women. She's like, look, we've all had a tough time of it, or some shit because while he's still in jail in 1982, they get married and don't do that. She ends up, cause she's the only one who understands him, ends up hiding this marriage

from her family, including her five children, tons. Like it's bad enough to have to get a new stepdad. And then it's fucking William, Willem, Willem, Defoe. When it is time for him to be paroled, because of this marriage, the authorities believe that he can assimilate back into normal society. They're like, he has somewhere to go and a person to look after him. And he's clearly, he couldn't do it before, but now, all he needed was the love of a good woman.

Right? Again, it's women's fault, they're in the center of everything, if they would just do what that creepy, disgusting man says, then he'll stop killing. So, his relationship, they do say it could prevent him from murdering, but they warn that more female rejection could trigger a relapse because, quote, the core of his problem has not been treated substantially. Anyway, bye, William. See you later.

Good luck. There's your shit. Don't let the screen door hit you in the ass on the way out, as we say in my family. So, when he's released in 1990, he and his wife of eight years, who he doesn't know that well, they move in into a house in Harkstead. That means you got it right or they don't know. No, her whole head went over to the side like this. That can't be positive.

But nobody else said anything either. I think they're just being polite. Oh. No, they don't. It doesn't matter. They're basically trying to tell us it doesn't matter. Thanks, guys. So watch this.

He goes to a clinic in Groningen. Groningen. Okay, so he starts going to that clinic in Groningen for psychiatric care. He's described by the staff as one of the most difficult patients they've ever treated. Can you imagine? At a mental hospital. Yeah, yeah. That's bad.

Yeah, yeah. It's not at Starbucks. And then, so that's like outpatient treatment, apparently. But then for a job and for a business, him and his wife start a pet sitting business. I got problems with that. Yeah, because remember his history with ducks and puppies and dead frogs? Steven. Steven.

So within six months, as we might have all guessed, problems begin to arise in the home. Willem starts drinking and heavily, and then pretty soon his wife gathers up for five children and gets the fuck out. So that's when he begins to regularly hire sex workers in his home. So in November of 1993, the body of 23-year-old Michelle Fatol is found in a ditch near the village of Enumatel. Got it. Keep going.

They've just abandoned us entirely, we asked you to do something. You don't even know what I'm saying. It's that bad? Really? I'm so mad at you right now. Enumatel? That doesn't exist. It doesn't matter anymore.

In a village. The body of a 23-year-old sex worker is found in a ditch, and she's been strangled to death. And then 14 months later, January 21st, 1995, the body of a 31-year-old sex worker named Annalise Randiers is found in the Emskinal near Apengedem. Yeah? Wow. I'm going to move here. I'm going to teach English classes.

Okay, later that same year, the torso of a 24-year-old sex worker, Antoinette Bont, is found in Winchester Dipe. And then later on, other body parts of hers are found in a duffel bag. So basically just dead sex workers just start showing up over and over. Less than two years after that, the body of a 19-year-old sex worker named Shirley Hergers is found, and then when they find her body, the police find out that her friend, Yolanda Meyer, is also missing. So then about three years after Shirley's body is discovered, on July 17, 2001, the body

of 34-year-old Sasha Schenker is found in a canal. Police discover that Willem von Eich is a regular customer of hers, and of course then he becomes prime suspect. When her clothes are found several months later in the same canal near his house in a plastic bag weighted down with stones, that's when they arrest him. So why? The stones had a name on them? So four months after they find her personal items on November 12, 2001, William van Eich

is arrested upon suspicion of murder. He confesses to killing Michelle Fatul, Annalise Randers, and Sascha Schenker. Police also suspect him of two other unsolved murders, Antoinette Bont and Yolanda Meyer, but he does not confess to those crimes. So authorities excavate the ground all around his house, but they don't find anything. They think they're going to find missing bodies, but they don't find anything, and they can't find any hard evidence linking him to those two crimes. But between his first release in 1990 and his second arrest, there were eight sex workers

and several other young women murdered in and around the area where he lived. But why wouldn't he confess to all of them? I don't know. Because he's a big fucking asshole, I can't. Maybe he didn't do, that's scary, what's scary is that maybe there were like four fucking murderers going on at once. Well yes, always. It's always a possibility.

It's definitely happening. So on November 7th, 2002, he's tried, convicted, and sentenced to life in prison for the murder of Michelle Fatal, Annalise Randers, and Sascha Schenker. He tries to appeal, the Supreme Court of the Netherlands is like, go fuck yourself forever. All of his requests for clemency are denied. They're just like, no, we did it wrong the first time. This shit is over. His lawyer, what year was that, sorry?

That was 2002. His lawyer reads his statement and it says, quote, I killed those women. It's terrible. I did not want that. It happened to me. Dude, no. I did not think of it before and it's still a mystery to me that has caused me to, what has caused me to act like that.

I am not a monster. Disagree. I did not want all this too. To say that you are sorry is easy, but that is not what it is meant to be. I am sorry. I wish I could undo it even if it would be at the expense of my own life. Sounds great. And as of 2013, Yolanda Meyer's body has not been found.

That's the most reason I was doing that thing. Have you done the thing where you look up an article on Google and you hit Google translate? And then the article comes up in the most insane English that you're just like, what is this? A fairy tale of some kind? Yeah, I'm trying to read these stories. But from what I could, and that is like five years ago, so there might be an update since, but her body has not been found from the last thing I could find on Google.

And although it was never proven that Willem was responsible for her disappearance, it's publicly believed that he killed both Shirley Huygers and Yolanda Meyer. So that's what everyone around town thinks. And that is Willem von Eich, everybody. Oh my God. Good job. It's just so crazy that there are these huge murders and serial killers all over the world and I've never heard of them.

Every story we've done here on our trip is like, what the fuck? This would have been, I should have known about this. Yeah. Well, they didn't know. That's true. Okay. I want to say this name right. Good fucking love.

I am doing the story of the murderer, Elsie Christians, they've never heard of that. Or I said it wrong, it could be my fault, Elsie, that's her name. So Elsie Christian, or just Christians, was born in 1646 in Denmark. A while ago then. A while. This is an oldie. That's why they don't know her. Yeah.

This is a classic. It's a, you know, from the old time, ours. You know. It's one of these. It's one of these. All right. You do this a lot on the podcast, you can't see it. Yeah.

When we talk about back in the day, it's usually a hitchhiking emotion. Okay. Born in 1646, there's not a ton of shit known about her life from beforehand because it's fucking old. You didn't undo some scrolls and try to get some information off. And from what it sounds like, she's just a normal human being. But in the spring of 1664, she's 18 years old and she leaves Denmark once a new life and moves to Amsterdam, which is a booming fucking town at this point.

There's not a ton of information about this murder, so let me tell you about Amsterdam. Oh, I loved it. In the 17th century. I need to hear about this. Okay, great. I should have known about this beforehand. The 17th century was Amsterdam's golden age, Karen. Was it?

Mm-hmm. I think now is. I mean, right. Barfing tourists? In the year 1600, Amsterdam emerges as one of the world's most important centers of trade. Everyone, you know this, you went to school here. They're like, yeah, I did this report in sixth grade.

You're fucking copying my report right now. The trade, Karen, obviously came wealth and a blossoming arts and science scene. I was fucking scrounging. Yeah. What was their main export, Chrome? Well, it also became a vibrant cultural hub and one of three Amsterdamers was an immigrant, it turns out. Wow.

The Sephardic Jews were fleeing persecution in Spain and Portugal, you know, over there. So your menorah was real. That's right. Yeah. Shit, I should have bought it. It was from the 1650s. It was an antique. Okay.

Whatever. And then... Is that around the time cheese was invented? Yeah. And then I wrote again, with trade came wealth and blossoming arts and science. Oh, and then she drew a picture of downtown Amsterdam like you used to do in book reports to fill up a whole page. Remember that when you'd be like, here's a Blinken's house, pretty sure.

They didn't do that. We did that. Yeah. That was us. That was our guy. Sorry. They're like, we like school. Okay.

Yeah. Also, listen, ships. From the ships. From the bases of the world. What do I do? What did ships do? What the fuck is this like? Did shit.

I know. We basically accidentally started a podcast where now we have to travel the world giving book reports to cities about their own cities. We're both college dropouts, but this is ridiculous. And you bought a ticket for it. I don't know what's happening. I might still be high from yesterday. Ooh, that'd be cool if like a second high kicked in and we're just like, tell me about

ships. Imports. Exports. I keep hitting my teeth with this microphone. Okay. But then. Spices. Spices happen.

Did they bring spices in? Goods of Ura, leading financial center. Then I write about something that interests me, which is the bubonic plague. The bubonic plague fucking comes around and from 1663 to 1666, more than 10% of the population died of plague. Fuck. That's fucking fun. Right?

By 1670, no fewer than 220,000 people lived in the city is fucking crowded. They build more of it. You guys know the story, but back to 1664. When our gal, Elsia is 18 years old, she comes to Amsterdam, she's like, I want to live here. She finds a place to live. She runs a room in the land with the landlord, lady. Wow.

That's so like independent for a gal in the 1600s. I know. I wonder what she was like. She wants to be a maid. So she starts looking for a job to get to be a maid, but within two weeks, she can't find a job. She's running out of money. She can't pay rent and let's see.

She lived on the dam rack. Dam rock. Thank you. You guys, then you'll know that it's an avenue and partially filled canal in the center of Amsterdam. Oh, yes. Yes. The dam rock.

Yes. It's right between Amsterdam central and the northern dam square on the south and she looks for a job. I hear there's a great McDonald's over there and then I wrote about poor people back then in Amsterdam. What were they like? Well, they did have a system of civic poor relief and charitable institutions. That's nice.

Yeah. So the old, in the insane, the sick and orphans were supported, whatever. Emotionally. Yeah. It's like, yeah, keep it up, you guys. You'll get there someday. Don't give up. Don't drop out of college.

So she can't find a job. The landlady's fucking pissed about it. One morning she wakes Elcia up and is like, pay me rent and Elcia's like, I can't and the landlady grabs a fucking broom and starts hitting her with it. Shit. That's old school. She's like, pay me rent. Elcia does what any fucking normal person does and sees a fucking ax lying there and picks

it up. Yeah. Because they're just but a big ax shipment that morning. Yeah. Right. One of the many axes. Imported from Canada. And even though the landlady's right, Elcia's like, no, I can't and then hits her with

the backs. I think it was a couple of times and it's hard, you know, there's not a lot. And she falls down the flight of stairs into the cellar and she lays there dead. Yeah. Meanwhile, the neighbors, because it seems like you just, every wall is shared in the city. Yeah. Are like, that sounded bad.

So they come over. They come over. Was there a broom ax fight in here just a second ago? Because we are positive, I heard. The distinct sounds of a broom slash ax fight. From ax fight, it's like, yeah, stairs. Someone brought a broom to an ax fight. Yes.

I didn't want to thank you. Thank you. Don't bring a broom to an ax fight. It's true though. But how would you? Okay. So that she answers the door to the neighbors and she's like covered in blood and they're like, something's going on.

She runs out to try to run away and they go in and discover the body. I think they must chase after her or something because she jumps into one of the canals. I would too. You know, but she can't swim. So I would not. So the bystanders help her out of the water and they bring her before the city magistrates when questioned, though she eventually confesses to the murder of her landlady. She's taken a trial.

She's found guilty and sentenced to death. Shit. That was fast for her. Uh-huh. Yeah. She's like looking for a job one day. She's like, here's me in the Big So shit. Now I'm going to be killed by the government.

So this is, this is the first execution of a woman in Amsterdam in 21 years. So of course the public goes fucking like crazy and it's a big spectacle and they do it in front of everyone back then. Executions were like HBO back then. It was just like primo cable television. Exactly. So everyone wanted to come watch. But here.

Okay. So the method of execution is also controversial. So even for that back then in the 1600s, it's just like fucking drawn in quarter of a few times. When you like the standard way was being like tarred and feathered, I think, right? I didn't look that part up. Let's just keep naming ways people used to get killed. Let's see.

Well, here's one. She would be strangled with a grot. You remember that from John Benet Ramsey? Yes. Thank you. My cap. And at the same time, she would be hitting the head with an axe. Not just any axe, but the axe that she used to kill her fucking landlady.

Yeah. That's some vengeance. I hope you learn your lesson. Oh wait, you're dead. Like fuck, and people were like, great, what time do we get there to watch? I want to pull my kids out of school. Is it going to be at one or two? Yeah.

I got to start dinner at three, so it better be quick. Because it's old and done times. Right? We have to eat five. Before the sun goes down. That's right. We'll die of the bubonic plague. That's right.

Because that's what they thought caused it back then. That's not true. Don't quote me on that. This is when the book report goes way out of control. Well, we found out recently from a friend that the show Drunk History, which is so great, that they're using our research for their new season, and we're like, don't do that. Don't do that. All right.

Do which is going to be a good season, I guess. Blah, blah, blah. Same acts. Public execution. That's not how you say it. What was it? Took place in the central dam square, Dom Square in Amsterdam. You guys have been there.

They used to kill people there. Okay, so not only is she going to get fucking strangled, and then some guy has to hit her in the head with the ax, afterwards they're going to publicly display her body, which is the thing they did back then with particularly bad criminals to humiliate them in their death, but also to be like, don't kill your landlady with an ax to everyone. This is what happens to you. This is the only way you'll learn, which is the Bible hadn't been invented yet. Who knows?

Okay. Nobody knows. We don't know. And we can't find out. Anyway. Moving on, I tried to look it up on the McDonald's screen, but it wouldn't fucking tell me. Destroy. I destroyed the Bible.

What I love is, sorry, sidebar, I just, you had to order ketchup on that screen. Oh. McDonald's is getting cheap, y'all. They will not give you ketchup unless you beg for it, like a peasant. So, I was like, fine, I'll pay for an extra, for a ketchup or whatever. And then when I went to walk away, I opened the bag and there was no ketchup. And I went back with just a hideous American tourist and I just held up the receipt. You were not fucking around, but how good was the McDonald's?

It was so much better than American McDonald's. It was like clearly made with love, and I thank you for that. I've just realized I've had McDonald's three times on this trip. Let's make it one more. Because I was like, well, it was better than in Dublin, and when we were in Oslo, that was the best McDonald's we've had so far. We get to a lot of places very late, we're like, we're staying at hotels, we're like, oh no, we stopped serving.

We stopped serving everything at 7. Well, the sun goes down. We're like, please, help us. We don't know what time it is, we haven't slept in hours. That's right. In hours. I need to sleep for at least 16 hours a day or this shit falls apart. I need to sleep every two hours I need a nap.

I'm like a six month old baby. You have to feed me and then put me to bed every two fucking hours. I'm like a six month pregnant woman, and I need to eat for two and take a nap all the time. Okay. All right. How's my hair? It's great.

I'm going to choose it up on this side a little bit more. There it is. Okay. Here we go. Thanks. No, stop it. I can't. McDonald's.

Okay. It's one of my greased my hair with McDonald's. As an American, when you come to Europe, you try to be not American, you try to just not talk and pretend. You just apologize the whole time. Yeah. Try to pretend that you're from somewhere else. And we've just fucking American did up all.

I mean, there's just no mistake. Yeah. Like, you guys McDonald's. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Her body was soon displayed, quote, to be digested by the air and the birds.

Oh. Yeah. Lift it to rock. Yep. At the gallows field. There's a whole area for it outside the city. Okay. So, her body was hung on a gibbit, do you know what that is?

Sure. Let me tell you what it is. Okay. In great detail. Great. Just kidding. It's a gallows type structure from which the dead or dying bodies of criminals are hung on public display.

And sometimes it's like the body shaped cage so that they can't even like, they have to stay in like human looking form the whole fucking time. You know what I mean? So, they can't even like, oh, my nose itches. No, I think it's like the dead people too, or it's like they can't fall off of it. They have to stay in this, they're like kept in this cage. That's horrifying. I know.

You know what I mean? Yes. So, it almost is like a sewing mannequin, but you can see through it. Yes. There you go. And then there's a person in there rotting. Uh-huh. Bop, bop, bop, bop.

Okay. It's supposed to deter other existing or potential criminals. It doesn't do it. Nope. No. That doesn't work. Okay. So, okay.

So, she's hung up and then next to her, hanging next to her head is the axe. Shit. Like they cannot get over this fucking axe. Yes. She's just like randomly picked it up. It wasn't like it was her axe and she loved it. I know. I'm so glad it wasn't something embarrassing like her own bra or like whatever would be

kind of humiliating, like strong underwear. I don't know what it would be that would actually kill somebody, but at least an axe is kind of scary and bad. Right. Totally. Totally. Oh, I mean it. Okay.

Hung next to her head. So, her death probably would have been forgotten, right, except, and you aren't history majors, should fucking know this, a certain painter was interested in her death. So, your dude Rembrandt, your friend- Congratulations on Rembrandt, by the way. And Van Gogh. Pretty much all of them. Yeah.

A lot of them are from around here. 1664. Rembrandt's almost 60 years old at this point. He didn't go to the public execution, but later that same day, by the time she had been hung up, he rose his boat from his modest house on Rosengracht. Yeah. Thank you. To the Volwik.

Volchik. V-O-L-E-W-I-J-K. Wait, they're stoned. Oh shit. You ate the meatballs. Didn't you? And so, he fucking rose his boat over there, and he fucking sees her up there, and he sketches two drawings of her.

It's one up close in one profile, and they're so fucking creepy, and there's so much feeling in them, even though they're just like basic sketches. Her face shows a look of disbelief and resignation. It's just this sad look on her face that you can just tell what it says, even just with this basic drawing. He was good. I mean, pretty good. Pretty good.

It's officially known, the work is officially known as a woman hanging on a gibbet. And at this point in his life, he had already buried two of his wives, one recently from the plague, and three children, and he was in financial strait. Like he wasn't fucking doing well. Even Rembrandt didn't do well. You guys don't fucking worry about your shit. Don't feel bad. Don't feel bad.

Yeah. There's so many Rembrandts in this audience tonight. You're going to be fine in a hundred years. So he wasn't the only artist who drew something from him. There's also a pen and ink drawing with watercolor by Antonie Van Borsum, in which her body was seen hanging alongside other criminals at an execution site. So Rembrandt's is special because it's just her as the subject, but his is this kind of interesting looking.

It's like what you would fucking see back then, which is a lot of dead bodies. So back then, it was drawn recently, people were trying to identify the date of the sketch of Rembrandts, and they were like, it's 1665, all these like, no, but all art people were like, I know what year it's from. But because it was one of his rare drawings that he drew of a current event, they could then place it because of her back to 1664. So in their face. Yeah.

Okay. So Tom Defreston, an artist based in Oxford, said this about the case, the law courts had obviously felt that a public hanging would act as a deterrent, but from its punishments such as this, that we should be deterred. I can't help but see an irony in the fact that her surname is Christian, for it was a Christian society that preached forgiveness, but was happy to sanction and support the barbaric acts of cruel punishment. She is without a victim of a system whose crimes hanging an impoverished 18 year old

girl went far or far worse. And both of Rembrandt's drawings of this, this event are at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. And that's the murderer, Elsia Christians. Wow. Thanks. Do we have time for a hometown? Let's do it.

All right. Listen to the, you know, there's some rules. Oh my God, you guys, there have been so many great hometown murders during this tour. It's been so awesome. So you probably know this, if you listen to the podcast, we just tell you really quickly, you don't seem like a super drunk audience or stone, but if you're under the influence in any way, that's fine with us, as long as you can tell your own story coherently and follow it all the way through.

That's key. It needs to have a beginning and a middle and an end. And not just tonight, but any time you tell the story, please don't be one of those people that just fucking starts shit and then wanders off. It's very irritating. Let's see. We want it to be local. We love for it to be from Amsterdam proper, but like, again, we don't want to hear from

back in Arizona and just make it quick because if you get picked, all the people that didn't get picked, hate your guts. And now Georgia will put her special picking. There's Vince, our tour manager. Okay. Can I have the lights up? Anyone have a home to look at this? Am I going to have to pick the only person with her hand up?

Come on up. Yeah, you. You had your hand up. Go to Vince. This way. You got it. All right. Nice.

We love running. Yay. Okay. Don't yell. Okay. Put the lights down or she'll freak out. Oh, there's people up there too high. Hi, guys.

That's crazy. Hi. It's Tatiana, you guys. Tatiana, everybody. Hi. Oh, she's got. It's okay. Come here.

She's got our jacket on too. Turn around. Look at that. Oh my God. So awesome. Oh, yes. That too. Where are you from?

Tatiana. I'm actually from Canada. Okay. Wait. Wait. Okay. Okay. I live in Switzerland.

Okay. Yeah. I work for the UN. Okay. And then I found out you were touring. And so I was like, oh, let's go to Amsterdam. Thank you. What's your hometown?

My hometown is Winnipeg, Manitoba. Okay. She just doesn't give a fuck about the rules. No, but I lived all over Canada. My dad is a PhD. So you go where the contract is. And I had a crush on a boy who is now in prison for murder for hire. Oh.

Yes. Okay. What happened? So I was in the seventh and eighth grade in Ontario. And his name was Dennis. And so we used to walk home together. And so I ended up moving around a lot as a child. And then about 10 years ago, a dear friend named Katie emailed me and says, hey, do you

remember Dennis? I'm like, yes. I do. And she's like, he's in prison for murder. And I'm like, oh. And so yeah, he unfortunately got involved in a murder for hire case in Kitchener, Ontario. And he currently is in appeals. What did he do?

So there is a woman who is married to him. I don't know the woman. I don't know the man, but he was apparently, she was apparently married to a man who didn't want to be married to her anymore. And he hired two people, one of them being this boy. Dennis, did he do it? Currently in the Canadian court system, they're in appeals as to who held the gun. Oh my God.

Oh no. So he did it. He did it. Tatiana everybody. Good job. Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, that's it Amsterdam.

That was our show for you. Thanks Amsterdam. We can't believe that we are so freaking lucky that we got to come here to your city and Europe in general for this podcast that we started in my living room with cats everywhere. So thank you guys so much for making that happen. Also thank you guys for becoming your own community. That's kind of the coolest thing that we keep watching and hearing about and seeing is the listeners of this show have now become murderinos and the murderinos have started communities

all throughout the world and with each other. And so often when we do meet and greets at our show, we have people come up and say they have extreme anxiety, they've never gone anywhere by themselves and they come to our show by themselves and then they meet friends at the shows and that is. We also have people telling us they've gone back to college to become forensic, pathologic, pathological investigators. Thanks. There are people that come up.

There's a girl in a woman in London who came and showed us her acceptance, her college acceptance letters to two different colleges because she was going to study forensics and she had already dropped out of college and thought she would never finish and she decided after listening to this podcast that she was going to go back and is she here? Is that why you're pointing? No. Oh, I thought somebody was like, and she's here tonight. But it's just like, it's just so funny.

It's a personal conversation George and I started having two years ago that we thought we'd record to see if anybody else cared about it and all of a sudden all this other amazing stuff is happening and we get the credit for it. It's so amazing. So thank you so much for being here, for being so awesome, for being so supportive. We can't thank you enough and please stay sexy. And don't forget my name. Goodbye, Amsterdam.

Thank you.