My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 237 - Anti-Hype Man

Episode Date: August 27, 2020

Karen and Georgia cover the wickedest woman in America, Patty Cannon, and the unsolved murder of civil rights pioneer Alberta Jones.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar. That's Karen Kilgera. This is a podcast. Welcome. You know that because you pressed that little purple icon on your phone and you're listening to podcasts. That's right. This is not a TV show. Don't wait for the visual part. This isn't an audio book. We're not going to read you a story. No. This is nonfiction, right? Nonfiction is true. Yes. It's all so confusing. I remember being taught that in

like fifth grade and being like, who's in charge? This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Excuse me. How hard are you trying to make the English language? This is that thing where like guys that play the guitar won't just show you how to make a chord with your hand. They need to talk about like all the different whatever words. Like you could just call nonfiction's not true. That was the... This is under the same category of when am I ever going to need math in my adult life? Yes. It all goes in. It all goes in there. Education. Let us reconfigure the education system. We're just here for this. Distinctly remember it being around 10 and being like, I will now say how we're going to refer to books that are true or are not true. Yes. Not true is nonfiction.

True is fiction. This is how I need it to go. Man, I fucking missed the day where they taught yours, your, your, you are that one. Yes. Or let's one of those and just wasn't like in elementary school and just never figured it out until high school because I just missed that fucking day of class. Yep. That's that same thing happened to me with Long Division, which kicked off my math anxiety that became such a bad thing for me. I flunked algebra third quarter of high school and then had to go to a hypnotist to try to relieve my math anxiety. Wow. That's a... Who ordered that? Pat Kilgarov. She's all about it. She's so smart. But then I was like, you know, Pat and I know that this is not, I can have math anxiety for the rest of my life and it's never

truly going to impact me. Well, at least the nuns didn't just smack it out of you. Like, at least Pat was like, let me do something that might actually work. Let me step in and make up some dumb bullshit. You know what I think works? Acupuncture, which it actually does. That does work. Yeah. That's ancient. It's ancient. I love those ancient ones where it's like, who here, our country's been around for, what is it, 150 years? Who here is arguing ancient, 5,000-year-old medical knowledge? Yeah. How dare. You're smarter than 5,000 years old? Don't think so. No. Do you know what I'm going to do when this pandemic is over? First thing, Ayahuasca. Can I guess? Shit. I would have let you. What would you have guessed? What would you

have guessed? Go to the Eaton Dale Bar and Grill. Actually, okay. That's the first one. That's number one. That's what you said. First thing, are you really going to do Ayahuasca? Do an internal reset? I think I'm going to do Ayahuasca. And okay, this is a great segue into the podcast that you have fucking set me down a rabbit hole on. Oh my God. Stephen, write down the date and time and date because Georgia has taken one of my recommendations right to heart. Immediately. This podcast called This Is Actually Happening. You text me yesterday about it, and I've listened to three episodes already. And last night, I was listening to an episode. It's basically people's true stories of just bananas, things that's happened to them in their

lives. And usually extremely negative. Right. Because that's the most satisfying story to hear somebody is like, I won the lottery. And how their lives, I mean, it's beautiful. And it's incredible. There's no narrator. It's just the person telling their story in the most beautiful way. And so the one I listened to is called What If You Enter the Void. And it's just incredible. I've never heard depression explained so beautifully and succinctly. And he goes and does Ayahuasca after a lifetime of depression. And I haven't gotten to the end yet. So I don't know if it works or not, but I feel like it must. So I'm just going to do it. Yeah, I totally wonder why Ayahuasca. That's amazing. Well, wait, so that's split off. That's two conversations.

So let's pause on the, pause on Ayahuasca because I definitely want to come back to that. But my, the first one, so I'm, I asked Jay actually to help me find this because I'm off Twitter, but then also I'm the third conversation. Put a pin in that one. Okay. That's right. This is going to go back. Steven, start making a homeland red thread map for this conversation. But, oh, so I tried to ask, because somebody actually, this was off of the radio rental recommendation of the last podcast I recommended. I believe it was the most recent. Somebody wrote in and said, if you like that, you're going to love this is actually happening. And I really want to give you credit. If you would write back in, if you'd email in, that would actually help.

And don't lie and don't try to, don't steal valor. Yeah, exactly. Oh, so the first one I listened to, because I really think the idea that people, and I wouldn't say that every person telling their story in this is a quote unquote victim in some way, but there are people who have these experiences that when you hear about them, it's so extreme. It's so bizarre. There's, there's a guy who talks about how he was homeless. Him and his father were homeless. And he was also trans. And then he gets put into a shelter because he was still under age when this was happening. And then someone at the shelter whose name I want, put some in touch with people who live up in the Bay Area, who are also trans people. And it's like you, you're welcome

to come in with us for super cheap. And then those people turn out to believe it's what if you get pulled into an alternate reality or it's called something like that. And it's the one of the most upsetting, but, but the, but the narrator is so incredibly strong. And of his own mind, the entire story, where he's basically going, I just was agreeing to get so I could get out of the house. I just kept going with it. And they were literally like, everything is the government is watching you and you're being manipulated. And you have to do what we say. And all this stuff that like, I feel like a less strong person would have been so vulnerable to this concept of two people doing it to him, pointing out all this stuff. And like, that's how you know you're not

safe and all this stuff. And he just like, got super cheap rent in the city while he tried to get his degree. It's an incredible story that he got himself out of. I don't remember where I saw this, but someone we posted, oh, we in the, I shouldn't be reading comments. This is part of the social media thing, but someone commented in one of the episodes that we posted recently that were live, she said, I didn't realize that the cheap rent I got from this, when I was in, in cockpit, I didn't realize that the cheap rent I got when I lived in this random place was because I moved into a cult until Karen covered the cult at a live show when I was sitting in the audience. She also needs to write to us. She's like, I was sitting in the audience and realized that I used

to live in like a cult compound because the rent was cheap. Oh my God. Oh my God. Wait, is that the um, the one that's like, yes, I was going to say it was the yellow, yellow deli or something like that. I think it's that. Yeah. It's a study and empathy, this, this show. There's one that I just listened to that's a kind of a newer one that I text you holy shit, but is what if someone you love committed a monstrous crime? Did you listen to that one? No. Oh my God. Oh my God. I will for sure. It's unbelievable. I just can't wait to like fucking listen to all of them. It's incredible. There's so many good ones, but the, the one, the first one I sent you is called what if it happened in broad daylight, um, about a woman who was attacked in at the bank

and it's the craziest, creepiest story, but the way she talks about how she doesn't like being treated as the, as the quote unquote victim of this crime is, was, was really eye opening and really important to hear. That's why I always love first hand accounts of the person that actually went through it because they get to dictate how, you know what I mean? Like she is talking about when it first happened, you know, she's, they bring her into the back. She's, her neck gets sliced with a knife and, and everyone around her is freaking out and she's like, it must have been like the adrenaline or being in shock, but she didn't think anything bad happened. Right. Right. She just knew it was kind of weird and she got moved away and it wasn't until she saw the videotape

played back for her by the cops that she goes, I felt so bad for that girl on the tape. It was completely like it wasn't, it didn't happen to her. It's a, it's a lesson of like how PTSD and how adrenaline works and how, you know, what your brain does in a panic situation. And how people react to trauma or tragedy or violent situations that are not the ones it happened to, but the ones that were there. It's almost like the witnesses, her version of the story, I shouldn't, none of this is like, you know, the, I'm not saying it as a fact. It's, it was fascinating to hear someone's take on what that was like to be the, the, the subject of it when that is not how she felt and she, it would really bug her the way she was treated as this person that it happened

to. And that because the person who perpetrated the crime, they believed she had the person had schizophrenia, so she couldn't get answers. She was like, I just wanted to know what I did. And there is no answer. There's no good explanation as to why that happened. It's, right. I mean, yeah, it's an incredible show. You guys should listen to it. And it's a great thing to be able to hear people discuss their, like you say, it's like, it, people getting to discuss the like, say most painful or most difficult or worst thing that's happened to them, being able to tell you they're a complete person, they're whole, they didn't get, they didn't get smashed apart by it. They're completely, they're saying, and this is what I

learned. There's one woman who talks about some, oh, it was her mom joined a cult and she kept saying, I want to, I don't want to judge it. I want to understand it. I want to know because I know I didn't have the life she had or the experience she had, which like made me go like, whoa, like I take so much comfort in judging other people's actions. It makes me feel more grounded to judge when actually you'd never know the full story. And it's, it's like a weird thing or what you would do in their situation. You can, you know, we can fucking talk about what we would do in someone else's, you know, shoes, tell the fucking cows, come home, but until you're really there, you, you have no idea because there's so many other things at play, including your fucking,

you know, fight, flight or fight mode, which actually pertains to this because, and almost brings it, would you find a segue in a weird thing? Yes, in a weird fucking circular thing. So we, we, you and I together at the same time took social media off of our phones because we thought you're going to say we took some drug together. I was like, what? Oh, I didn't tell you, I put ketamine in your coffee. We took social media off our phones together because we both realized it was affecting us in a very negative way. Yes. And so I was talking to my therapist unrelated about fight, flight or freeze. Freeze, yes. And so I was looking up the, you know, who am I, what do I do? And actually in, it said in the context of the freeze part, which I think

I do is mindless scrolling to get yourself, you just can't move forward. And so you find something that's comforting, like taking a nap or scrolling. And so I think maybe we're so panicked and have so much anxiety about the world, what's going on today. Our fucking business life right now is, you know, for the past four years has been bananas. And so this mindless scrolling, this commenting, this getting reading comments and all of that is a really great way to avoid the, you know, avoid that the stress that's actually happening that we just can't deal with right now. Well, it's almost like you get to pick your own stress. So it's a control issue because it's like, it's like saying, oh, this is what I'm upset about. All that other stuff. I can handle this

stress. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can be mad at this person and blame or whatever. Here's the problem. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Also, that reminds me because there's a similar thing I was saying. It was someone we know made a joke about me being a perfect, a perfectionist. And so I actually looked up what, because I was like, I am not nowhere near being perfect. And then I looked it up. And I have it so fucking bad. Like what? Because I always picture like a perfectionist is like Reese Witherspoon. Yeah, they actually are perfect. Right. And that's not it at all. It's just the trying that makes it happen. It's the, it's, it's unrealistic expectations and goals. And then the procrastination part is the sidelining yourself when you lose all faith. And then it's like,

it's really fascinating. It's, it's, it's so good. I was going, I'm going to send you it was, I found an article in psychology today about it that had this really good illustration where it was like a person here. The goal set is a, is a road that goes straight up. And then it's like finish line straight up. And there's someone on the side of the road looking at their phone on one side. And on the other side of the road, cutting the grass was just like perfectly trim. Yeah. Like I'm a perfectionist, but that's not their goal at all. Oh, that makes total sense. There's all these things about it that I just was like, Oh my God, that's what, that's what it is. And then you just are always ruining your own good time with those kind of

like, it'll never work. I'll never make it. I'll never be so and so. So it's like comparing yourself to people all, all the shit everyone does. Well, you know what the fourth F is that my therapist just told me about it. I had never heard of. So you have fight, flight, uh, freeze or fawn, like fawning, like telling someone how beautiful they look and being like, Oh my God, you're, you know, like to make them like you, that's the way like you, the tiger's about to attack you. And you're like, you look amazing today. You're such, you're the fucking queen of the jungle. And wow, you look great. And like that's the person's way to like make everyone like them so that they don't get attacked. Wow. I feel like I do.

Well, and also in my, in the culture I grew up in, that's how you know who to attack, because that's clearly fake. Yeah. And it doesn't work for me. And it doesn't. Yeah. It's disingenuous. It's like, it's like somebody going, just putting in the vote of I'm scared of you, which is like, great. I'll take care of that. Remember when one of our first, which is perfectionistic of me to be, I can't accept compliments because I know you're, I know you're lying. And in Hollywood at my old department during one of our first fucking couple months, and you sat down to like talk to me about a serious issue. And I was like, okay, yeah, totally. By the way, your hair looks amazing.

And you were like, don't talk about my hair. This is serious. Like you specifically called me out on it. And I was like, whoa, I fucking totally do that. Where it's like, great, let me, let me diffuse the situation real quick. Now you should like me. Go ahead. Yeah. Which is so manipulative. It's so manipulative. But this was before, and look, this was before I understood your background where direct, like we're going to sit down and face to face discuss a thing is your worst nightmare. And that is like, that's all I know of like, no, no, no, we have to solve this right now. We're going to talk it out. We're going to put it on the table. And like, I was setting you up to be panicked. Like that approach was your and then it didn't

work. I didn't want my diffusion didn't work. Oh my God, we should write it. No, because, because I was like, please don't diffuse. Well, I have to tell you it's hard enough to be saying like whatever fucking stuff that a thing that I bet you if Stephen was able to go like, you know what it was about, we'd both start laughing because it's nothing. He has every argument on fucking on his computer. So many. Oh, Stephen, how many times do you have to step out of the apartment? Not for the early days. That's what his book is going to be about. The first time I was asked to step out of the apartment and walk around Georgia's neighborhood was, but I didn't stop with recording. So don't worry. Oh, I had Iowaska. Wait a second. Are you in the Iowaska

category? Are you fine throwing up in front of others? Because that's the thing that blows my mind. I'm a lifelong recovering bulimic. I can fucking do this. You can do it anywhere. I have a yes, I could do it anywhere. I have no fucking issue with it. Some of my best friends have seen me vomit. It's like just not a thing for like, by the way, get help for your eating disorders. I'm making a joke of it, but it's serious. Yes, for sure. No, it's not good. And also it can it actually can do serious damage, especially to your heart, to your soft against everything. It's not good. So but I am an I am an amyib. I have an amybil gag reflex. I'm like good at this thing. It sucks to be really good at something that you just can't actually use,

you know, but there's upsides like Iowaska. I was being dirty. Oh, market Steven market. No, leave it. I love it. Steven's shaking his head. He's like, I'm not fucking taking that out. Steven's like, where what's happened to the show? What's happened to you? COVID-19, Iowaska. But I think I saw a good special about you. They were using Iowaska to help treat PTSD for soldiers coming back from war and really having a hard time. And it really they see a lot of a lot of real change with that. So I think that could be amazing. I think so too. I know, of course, do my research and take it very seriously. But I'm right. And there's 1000 stand up comedians have who have slowly been transitioning into like Iowaska shavings because

they're so into it. Yeah. So I'm gonna me and Mark Marin maybe we'll just take a fucking trip to the Oh, that'd be nice. He doesn't know me. So that would be weird. Well, that's how you get to know people. Right. Nothing like vomiting in front of someone to really get to know them. And then you're like, I'm sorry, it's great talking to you, but I can see the devil right now. So I have to go deal with that. And I'm gonna have to go without Vince because he's not he's not I'm I have I'm more experimental than he is. And I heard that you see a snake like in a lot of people see a snake and he's terrified of snakes like to a point that's incredible. Like a snake comes on TV for a second and he loses it. Oh, they're pretty bad. Yeah, I'm kind of on his side with snakes. I don't

disagree. Um, let's just slimy. Oh, I wanted to talk about let's see, I had a thing hold on a second. I mean, how are you doing though, being off social media in general? Do you feel an improvement? I feel more more focused. Yeah. The first couple days, I realized that every single thing that happens in my life and around the house and with the cats is me is as my brain goes to, I should post that. This will be a good post. What do I post about this? That's all I think about. Yes. And the mindless scrolling, of course, you know, I'm still kind of doing it on other sites, like, you know, news sites, but it's, it's so sad every time I like enter CNN.com into my phone where I'm just like, I just want to know what's going on. But it's like this real kind of rickety grandpa

version of getting the news. Yeah. It's so hilarious. It's like it feels like social media and it feels like an intricate knot that I'm tied up in that doesn't feel good. I can't, you know, move well and I can't, I can't thrive when I'm tied up that way. But at the same time, it's, it's comforting and I've known it for so long and it's, and it's been there for me in so many ways and is part of my like a self-esteem boost for me that I need. But at this, but I'm also looking for the negative stuff and it affects me in a way that is really negative and it's mind blowing how how the positive stuff you, you so easily take it for granted when people are telling you beautiful, wonderful things and then the negative stuff can be just passing. You can tell it's just someone

trying to get attention and it'll like stick in your brain and that's the part that and it's not like I honestly don't experience that much of that because I just immediately mute everyone. I literally, if somebody goes, you're better at that, then that's the thing. That's my thing. You just disqualified yourself. You disqualified yourself. So you don't get to talk to me if you're going to use that tone or like, honey, like anything that starts like that. I'm like, sorry, I'm so much older than you. Goodbye. Well, there's just no way that I can do the work that I'm doing with my therapist, which is trying to get past old, like bullying and, you know, self-esteem issues. If I keep reading comments, if there's no way, I can't both work on those

issues that I have and let people get to me that way, which, you know, at the same time, it just doesn't work. So I'm picking, I'm picking my own fucking psyche and working on that instead of social media. Good. Great. That's the, that's so much better. And then I have a can of wine at 2.30 in the afternoon right now. But it's pandemic. What are you supposed to do? It's a pandemic. So I'm doing great. I mean, we're doing this. You have to have some vices. We're doing this experiment of just being a little bit more off the grid in the middle of the most isolated time in our lives, which is very difficult. I mean, my thing is I realized just Twitter is a social thing for me that isn't real. Right. So I keep going to it like, oh, I just want to come and

talk to them, people. And it's like, then text your friends. Don't I want to stay in the loop. It is a totally different thing for comedians though. I'm like, you know, I do think so. But it is the you're so true. You're so right about the dopamine hit of interaction, which is good and fine. If you can keep the brackets around it. Yeah. But if it then begins to spill in because someone decided to be kind of like, you know, bitchy or critical to you. Yeah. It's like, you don't know who that is. The idea that you just immediately take their opinion straight to heart and be like, this matters. And now I'm going to feel bad about it is like, it's a very sped up reaction. And we don't know that that's what we're doing. But that's what

we're doing. We're going, whoever you are, random person, you get a say and you get a say in my life and how I feel about myself. And it's like, sorry, let's not do that to ourselves. Let's keep that circle real small of people who get a say. That's a great idea. As my therapist told me, it like in year one, where she goes, how many like close friends would you say you have? And I'm like, I don't know, 30. And she goes, uh, uh, uh, uh, that's not a thing. That's not true. And I was just like, Oh, you're right. Four. Oh, four. Keep it tight. Well, your sister has agreed. Your sister, Laura has agreed to, and Stephen does this too, when there's a cute thing on Instagram that pertains to us,

she's agreed to send it to me. Uh, I feel like we should give her my favorite murder Instagram password and just be like post whatever you want anytime you want. Well, they're coming to visit. So maybe we'll, we'll make an arrangement. Oh my God. What if Nora was our social media manager, your 13 year old niece? She's so TikTok based though. That's the only thing. Great. She's all about. We need a fucking TikTok presence. Great. We do. We need to eat the youth injection. We're, we're old people talking to young people. We need to be managed by even younger people. I think there is like a, I don't know TikTok at all, but we've been tagged in a few things where like the gal will say, stay sexy and don't get murdered. I don't know. They play a sing, stay

sexy, don't get murdered and then, um, mimic it. I don't know. Is that a, is that a meme? Yeah, that's a TikTok thing. Stephen's laugh. I can see Stephen in zoom and he's laughing at us. They lip sync. Stephen, do you have something to say about TikTok? I'm too old for TikTok. That's how I know. What? Millennial Ray Morris is too old? The only thing, the only thing I follow on TikTok is a woman who does couponing. What? That sounds fun. She's a murdery note. She's a murdery note in Nashville and she does cat rescue stuff, but she also does shows like all the extreme coupons like CBS. Like you saved $400 today or like you're saying it's free. What's her name? I want to try. Her name is Laura. Yes, Laura. But like, it's just about all the ways that you can like,

and she donates a lot of the stuff that she gets on coupons to shelters, like women's shelters and things like that. She's doing great work. It's, it's really fun. It's very satisfying. Love couponing, man. I love couponing. Love that. Laura Bell X at Laura Bell X on TikTok and that's bell, B-E-L-L-E-X Laura Bell X. Beautiful. Love it. There we are. Here we are. We got our TikTok in. Yeah, we'll have Nora walk us through it. You and Vince should come over and we can sit outside, have dinner on the patio, and then we'll get, we'll set Nora up. Is your dad coming? Can he make one of his well done burgers for us? Yes, he can. Don't, don't tell him I fucking said that. Well, the problem is they're

either completely done or you are eating red meat off of the styrofoam white thing. I mean, he's, they're in the past, he served burgers that were just like we, everyone was pretending to eat them and then had to put them down afterwards because they were so raw. It's like top, an episode of Top Chef. It's insanity. We're going to make something that's not, that's like tacos where you just know exactly, exactly what the cooking is. But yeah, we'll get that all figured out. Look, I'm definitely not going to be off social media forever, but I think it's so good at a time like this to, to watch yourself and actually just be in the world. Like I had to, as you know, I dropped my, I dropped my phone in the pool the other day. Oh my God, listen to this,

you guys. This is the most LA thing you've ever fucking heard. This is an asshole story and I do apologize. Jay, Jay texted me the other morning, our, our assistant, so LA was like, Hey, I'm sure she told you, but Karen dropped her phone in the pool. So we have to cancel this meeting or whatever. And I was like, she fucking didn't tell me actually. I was the second it happened. I was like, yay, I don't have to do any calls for like days. I was, I, in my mind, I was like, you just bought yourself a week of freedom. And then I'm like, what am I talking about? Like I can do everything on my laptop. I know. What am I talking about? So I left my house and went to the phone place that's not the iPhone store or the Apple store because they're all closed

to my local phone place. And we're a woman who worked there. The, I guess what it would be, Sherman Oaks, AT&T store, Cindy, what's up? You killed it. They were the greatest. Okay, this woman, I loved her so much went in. Of course, there's like dots everywhere of where you should stand everything. Now all those tables in those like phone stores have the plastic divider on them. I mean, all this stuff, it's so trippy dystopian as fuck. Yeah, it's crazy. And we're both wearing masks. And so she's, I'm like, I just need to replace this phone. What's the latest one? I'll have the one you're having. I thank God I have insurance pools count, you know, whatever. So she's just doing it real fast, not asking me all those extra questions. She just knew

we needed to both get out of there quickly. And so then I go over, she goes back to get it. I go over to like look for what my new phone case will be, because of course it's a different size and new everything. And a woman comes in who's wearing a mask, but walks straight in and starts telling everybody what to do. And Cindy's like, ma'am, could you please stand over there? You have, we have, we already have three customers in the store. What's she telling them? What's she doing? Like just like, I need to pay my bill, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But, but Cindy's like, oh, you need to stand over here because we already have the maximum people in the store. And this woman, it was like she was waiting for her cue. Oh, did, oh, I'm sorry, did someone in

this store die? Is that why you're being this dramatic? And she started going off and I looked, I looked at her, I was just like, I almost started yelling, I was like, you've got to be kidding me. This is total crap. And Cindy handled it beautifully. She was just like, ma'am, I'm sorry, I understand your frustration. This is for the safety of others. She handled it. Like the woman immediately realized there was going to be no attention, God, and there's going to be no, no one was going to join her in her fight. And she just went and stood, she handled it so perfectly. So you know how they usually say, can I just say what a pity it is that she, because you're wearing a mask didn't get the full effect of Karen's fuck you face. But at the same time, you were able to

fucking give it with just your eye showing and eyebrow. Those eyebrows are pretty. The eyebrows do it. They're plucked specifically for making people freeze in their tracks. But I had actually started yelling, when she started yelling, I immediately started yelling because that's what we do. Oh, are you yelling? I'm more mad immediately. You're like her height man who's like, yeah, what? But I'm against her and the anti, anti height man. But I realized I was like, do not escalate this, Cindy's got it. You don't know, blah, blah, blah, whatever. When they said, they sent me the thing of, will you fill out a survey? And normally I completely ignore those even if I've gotten great service. I filled out that survey and wrote, texted a

paragraph this long about how well Cindy handled herself and this situation and completely diffused it. And if AT&T is going to have people in stores, they need to pay them more because they're doing more than the average job because now they have to manage and mitigate people who are anti-maskers coming in and screaming at everybody. And that's on them. And, and because I had a long conversation with Cindy about it where I was like, she goes, we would have like a weird thing happen in the store maybe once a week before she goes, now it's five times a day. And because, but anti-signizers, but the reason she understood it, she goes, it's easy for me to calm them down and to stay neutral because I know your phone is your lifeline. And if you're in a place where the government hasn't

sent you a check and you don't have anything and all of a sudden you can't make your payment and you're getting your phone cut off, then you're cut off. And so this is all of a sudden the people in these stores, this is, they're on the front line of people who are being affected by the mismanagement of this entire situation. Oh my God, Cindy. So I wrote to, I wrote to my, in my report, in my review where I was like, please pay these people more because they're protecting your brand. So you need to protect them. I mean, I can't imagine what it's like right now for, it's horrible. Georgia 10 years ago, I would have been fucked. There's no moving home because there's no fucking home. There's no not paying rent. You'll get kicked out. You're in your

fucking your roommates over. You know, it's like, I don't know what I would, I don't know what I would do if I were Karen, Karen five years ago would have been literally pack up the dogs and move back to my dad's house because and look, people are doing that and there is no shame in collecting yourself in a situation like this. This is like unprecedented insanity. If you have to, if you're lucky enough to have a family to go home to, just say thank you and do those dishes and feel not one ounce of shame because this is crazy. This is unprecedented and it's also we're, it's also unmanaged. This is, this is beyond, but that's Cindy's of the world. Please think when you're out and about and you're going to places that have reopened, please be ultra careful, concerned,

polite and defensive of the people who are now also essential workers. But they're working at, you know, at a phone store, like please, please be protective and careful and know that those people are being deeply affected by the stresses of others and the people who can't manage themselves. And all of a sudden you're like, I'm just here working trying to sell iPhones and suddenly I have to, I'm a crisis manager. Dude, Cindy, we love you. Cindy props. Props to Cindy. Fuck, all right. It's been 36 minutes. Should we start talking about the bug? God damn. We haven't even gone to exactly right news yet. Oh my God. Literally, when I sat down, I was like, I have nothing to talk about. Me too. I actually wrote two things down that I could talk about and we

haven't talked about them. That's like. What you got? What you got? Well, I have the beautiful and amazing actor Dan Levy. He posted this Instagram recently that I saw before I took Instagram off. Wait, can I say? Yeah. Is it about taking that class? Yes. Oh, I love him so much. He is. There's a free course being offered through the University of Alberta called Indigenous Canada. It's a 12 lesson course that explores Indigenous histories and contemporary issues from an Indigenous perspective. And he is not, it starts this week. It's like 12 courses. He'll be doing hosting a weekly discussion with the professors for 12 weeks and they're all going to learn together. I have it pulled up right here. It's, it looks awesome. It's, I mean.

It's so brilliant. Yeah. I love that Dan Levy is getting involved. He's incredible. Well, because also it's like, what are you doing with your time? Like, you know, how many times can I rewatch the same show that I already like? And when I saw that, that was before I left Twitter. I saw that I was like, that genius bastard, he's done it again, because it's like, learn about something you should know that very few of our educations provided for us in a meaningful way. And the other thing was that the Anchorage Daily News, I saw this on Reddit, they on the cover of their newspaper, it's, it's a huge blank newspaper page with a tiny little paragraph at the bottom that says over the past month,

we've presented the stories of women and men choosing to speak out about their experiences with sexual violence in Alaska. Talking about rape and sexual assault is difficult. Many survivors may not be in a position to do so right now. This space, which is the blank space, is dedicated to those not ready to share. We're leaving this open for you. Oh my God. So you can write and you know how important it is to even write a letter that you don't send. They left the entire front page open for, for survivors of sexual assault to write their experience and just keep it beautiful. I know. Brilliant. Yeah. Who is that editor in chief? I'm a high five Anchorage. The Anchorage, what is the newspaper called daily

news? Wow. Congratulations. It's what a beautiful gesture. I know. All right. That was what I had. Oh, and then we have, we have, we're going to make some face masks. You guys, we made face masks. You guys guys, we made face masks. They say stay sexy and don't get no, they just say stay sexy. They say stay sexy and then they have the My Favorite Murder logo on them. So you can, everyone you walk by, you're going to be giving them a message. If you buy one, all proceeds are going to go to feedingamerica.org. That's right. And so Feeding America, their mission statement is our mission is to feed America's hungry through a nationwide network of member food banks and engage our country in the fight to end hunger. So it's, it's pretty cool. It's been around since

1979. We're really into it. So any, any face mask you buy from us at myfavoritmurder.com in the store, all the proceeds are going to go to them. To Feeding America. That's right. Which is super important right now as we were just talking about, this is very intense, very difficult time for so many people. And this is just one way. We all have like, you know, I have about four different masks. One was one my sister bought for me, one, I got a package of like the disposable ones. But so, you know, you can have one for your car, you can have one for your house, answering the front door or whatever. Our house is littered with masks. It's really ridiculous. Vince keeps buying like different, you know, he wants to support the businesses he likes. So he keeps buying masks

from different places. And then we have the big thing of the disposable ones. And it's just, you know, love it. Love it. The coolest. Yeah. Yeah. So get in there. And so you can protect yourself and support a very good cause and help help out a hungry people in America. Yeah. And then real quick, do you want to do exactly right corner? Yes. Good shit this week. So good. So Monday Murder Squad covered the case of the Taco Bell Strangler, who's named Henry Lewis Wallace. He targeted black women in Charlotte, North Carolina in the 90s. But he's only confessed to the murders that he, everyone knew he was tied to. So Billy and Paul explore how many other potential victims he could possibly have.

I've never even, that's, I've never, I've never heard of Taco Bell Strangler. And on bananas, okay, when we were told that this was going to be a guest on bananas, and you know how good Scotty and Kurt are with guests. This one fucking tops them all. Erin Brockovich. Hi. Oh my god. Legend. Let's all watch that tonight. What the movie? The movie Erin Brockovich. Absolutely. Such a good movie. But she's an incredible advocate. So she is on bananas this week. Please tune in. Yeah. And then the fall line is releasing this week, they release part one of their new two part series called identity after death, which sounds so cool. They have a UNH lecture and friends forensic anthropologist named Dr. Amy Michael, who's talking about

common misconceptions, the state of forensic science, how cold cases might be solved. Like, this is a person who's in it and studying it and on the cutting edge. So I can't wait to listen to that. Sounds so good. So rad. Yeah. Cool. Great stuff happening. It's all crappening. Is that everything? 45 minutes in? No, sorry, there is one more thing. So last week, because the TV shit. God damn it. The TV show. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So we talked a little bit about the new HBO series Lovecraft Country premiered. And we talked about how much we loved it. Oh, God, it's so good. So, and that's a Jordan Peele is one of the producers on it. Oh, why am I not surprised? That's amazing. Yeah. So we got this email and it says, Hey, crew, I was so excited

and moved to tears to hear you both bring up Lovecraft Country this week. I'm one of the set decoration buyers on the show. And the entire crew put so much love, sweat and tears into it. And it's just nice to say our hard work being recognized. I think my parents sometimes imagine I'm still painting flats for high school play. As I was spending hours in my van traveling around Georgia to find period correct pieces, parentheses. This is my favorite thing in the world. Okay, say it. She goes, and I mean it. There's not even a single book on any set that was published after 1954. Fuck that damn rad. Can that be that's my like, that's my if you weren't doing what you're doing now, what would you want to do? That's my dream job, right? It's the coolest. And y'all were

keeping me company. So as she was doing this, doing these buying, she was listening to us with just such a great compliment. Every Monday and Thursday, several of us would get distracted. Talking about this week's episode in my office, you could find various SSD GM, you're in a cult, call your dad and other MFM merch. I even have a few people on our crew who remembered the casket with the quote, suspicious substance formaldehyde that was in a mini-sode that came out while we were filming. That was that one was not on our show. I promise to never buy a used casket for work no matter what the discount is. Anyway, I just wanted to say on behalf of the Lovecraft crew, or at the very least the set decorating department, that we are happy to be friends of the fam.

Stay sexy and stay away from racist and Shahgath's Natasha. Amazing. I love it. I love it. We were so excited. So thank you, Natasha. I'm assuming she pronounces it Natasha, but it's N-O-T-O-S-H-A. Yeah, Natasha. It's a different spelling. Please say hi to everybody, Natasha. And way to go. Yeah, super congratulations. What a beautifully, beautifully made show. I love it. But also so fucking creepy. Like the first one, it's all spoilers. I don't see the new episode. Yes, I don't. Don't. Don't spoil. Okay. Yeah, we'll watch it and watch the other one and then we'll talk about it next week. And really quick, just for the comedy side, if you're looking for something to watch, I finally, I had been saving it because when it

first came out, I didn't watch it even though I love Rob Delaney. I love him. I love, he's just truly the funniest. He's the king of Twitter, but he's also an amazing actor and amazing comedian. So kind too. He fucking, I knew him for a little while when he lived here. He remembers my name when he like didn't have to. You know what I mean? Like I was not important to your life in any way. But he happened to be like, hi, Georgia and Vince. He was just so nice. Yes, he knows his stuff. He's good. So he made a show with Sharon Horgan, his amazing Irish actress and comedian called Catastrophe. So good. There's, I believe, three seasons of it. So, and it is so fucking funny and so brilliant to people that get together and start a family. And you, that's all you need to

know. The jokes are superb. People are so real. I love it so much. And I, it's, I always feel bad when you, I don't watch things the second they come out. But oftentimes I resist because there's always this first wave of like opinion. And I want to like get away from that and then have my own opinion and be separate. So you just watched it and you love it? I just watched it literally for like 72 hours. I did not stop watching it because I loved it so much. You know what that reminds me of? Did you watch the Nexium cult documentary? Yes. Episode one. What's it called? The vow? The vow on HBO. And so good. It made me think of this because I thought to myself it's on HBO. So it's episodic every week. And I am just like, I was mad that I couldn't binge watch it. Yes, we

can. Can we not do that anymore? All I want to do is fucking sit there for a weekend and binge the show. Yes. I mean, and while you're at it, if I'm binging a show, you don't need to put up a thing that asks me if I'm still watching it. Stop judging me for laying on the couch for nine hours. Still? That still is an italics. Yes. Are you still, Karen? And then a little pig face. Yeah. The vow is really good. I am fucking excited about it. The way it is setting it up for a second, I was kind of like, this feels a little bit pro-nexium to me. What's going on? Yeah. But it's like they're establishing, it's good documentary filmmaking. They're establishing what was good about it. Yeah. Because there's always- And why these people got pulled in and you can totally

understand. Yes. The positivity and the- It's so- I love that. It's like a learning process where I was like sitting there going, I don't like this. They're basically- And then I went, oh yeah, that's the whole idea of a cult is you don't see a cult and go, this is a bunch of bullshit. You like the girl who was talking about realizing she's in a cult at the show. Of course, it's welcoming. It makes you feel good. It's hitting all of those- You feel like you have a big old purpose. Which, sorry, isn't a real, like doesn't happen in real life unless you have kids maybe. I think if you have kids, then that's a cult. Not according to catastrophe. No, but I mean, it's such a good, this is the way we learn about cults so that we can learn to

stay away from them or to recognize when something switches from being super helpful and beneficial to literally controlling your life. Yeah. Thank God there's a lot of good TV out right now, these times. All right, are you ready to make some media that will also entertain people? Well, we're 49 and 50 something seconds in, so I feel like now's the time. It's time. Just tell me like a four minute story. Sorry. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping and prepping handled, HelloFresh has you covered. HelloFresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new

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with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Mike Corey, the host of Wondery's podcast against the odds. In our next season, three masked men hijack a school bus full of children in the sleepy farm town of Chowchilla, California. They bury the children and their bus driver deep underground, planning to hold them for ransom. Local police and the FBI marshal a search effort, but the trail quickly runs dry. As the air supply for the trapped children dwindles, a pair of unlikely heroes emerges. Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcast.

You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Stephen, who's first? Karen, you're first. Okay. Is it me? Oh, cause the last week. The quilt episode. All right. Georgia did the dungeon in the Carolina Charleston. And Karen, you did the Stoll Cemetery. Okay. The right. Okay. Okay. Okay. So Georgia, the story I'm going to do for you this week read to you is the story of Delaware's Patty Cannon, the wickedest woman in America. Oh, don't know it. Okay. This was suggested by Anna H. She sent this suggestion into the MFM Gmail inbox. Thank you, Anna H. I'd never heard of her. Of course, what she was, she basically ran the reverse underground railroad. She was an escaped slave

catcher in the 1800s. There's so much of this stuff as I was looking it up and reading it, that of course, I've never heard of any of it. Historic as fuck. They don't teach. They don't teach it in the fucking schools. They don't teach it. And they don't teach slave patrols, slave traders, all of it. It's such an ugly time. It has to be discussed. This should not be the only thing you know about it. So please, this is basically an overview. There's plenty to read about this and to look into yourself. Okay. So I got this information. There's a ranker article that was written by a writer named Manda Sedlak Hevner and all that's interesting article that was written by Emily Stringer and articles from, of course,

Wikipedia, newspapers.com and the Dover post. Just as a quick overview, as most of us know, and this, the only thing I've ever heard of is that the underground railroad itself, the original, which was the secret network of safe houses hiding places and travel routes that led escaped slaves out of slave owning states and to free states and up to Canada. So of course, it's an incredibly secretive system. So there's not much about like when it was established or who did it first or anything like that because that was all very secret. But what we do know is that it was set up by free men who had been escaped slaves themselves, black and white abolitionists at the time, many of whom were Quakers. So the Quaker religion was

very active. They're very active in helping slaves escape. Also, members of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, which was established in 1816, that they did tons of work on the underground railroad. And it basically just provided it was, it was very loose. Some of the, some of the network, some of the spots in the network knew about each other, but it was very loosely organized. It wasn't like, oh, if you make it to this place, you know exactly a go to that place. It wasn't set up like that. The more you know, it's the same thing with like, you know, fucking Jewish people in Germany during World War II. The more everyone knows about it, the more you can tell the authorities when you get caught. So right, the more danger. Exactly.

Exactly. You had to keep it small. You had to keep it very, very secretive. And especially at this period of time, which would be like mid 17, late 1700s, into the 1800s, because America was founded and established with slavery simultaneously. So the slave codes that came to America, they came with the slave owners in America, they were just, it was just kind of, they weren't the laws that were enacted. It was kind of like what had been established in either France or Spain or England. And there weren't any laws set up in any meaningful way. Essentially, across the board, a slave owner was legally allowed to beat, to rape on some cases, to kill his property, quote unquote, these human beings at will. And so essentially, they're human beings

that were bought into servitude and then treated so poorly, obviously, backbreaking work in humane living conditions. I mean, so escaping to the Northern Free States was obviously huge. And they had the slave owners made it a very, very scary thing to try to do. Right. And so, an example of whoever tried it and got caught. Exactly. And get these slave patrols, people that would just go out at night, hired for money to try to catch people who are trying to escape slavery. So there's, I read this article a while, a couple of months ago, and it had this quote in it that I remembered. And it was from, there's a black composer named George Walker, who was the first black composer to win a Pulitzer for music. He won it in 1996. Oh my God. Yeah. And he died

in 2018, but he was the grandson of a slave. And when he, his grandmother, of course, never talked about it. And when he finally had the courage to ask her, what was it like? The only thing she said to him was they did everything except eat us. So, okay, so I'm just giving you the overview of the setup. Definitely look into all of that. Slave patrols, all of that. It's so creepy, horrifying. And it basically was the birth of what is happening in this country right now. In about 1820, there's a woman by the name of Patty Cannon. And she tends bar at her tavern in Johnson's Crossroad, which is in a town in Delaware that's situated right on the Delaware, Maryland border. And so, it sits right on the Mason Dixon line. So, slave traders would often stop at Patty's tavern

as they were traveling to and from the slave states and the freed states. So, tonight Patty waits on a slave trader who makes the terrible mistake of flashing a huge wad of cash that he has. And so, she invites him to have dinner in her nearby home. And he says, yes, they have dinner with her son-in-law, Joe Johnson, and Joe's brother, Ebenezer. If you just want a creepy white guy name. Eb. What's up, Eb. Ebenezer. So, the slave trader seated at the dining room table and Patty excuses herself to go outside to hoe her flowers, she says. That's the excuse she uses. And from the garden, which sits right below the dining room window, Patty has a clear site of this slave trader's back, pulls out a gun, shoots him from behind and kills him. Takes his money,

obviously. Then Patty, Joe, and Ebenezer hack his body into pieces, wrap him in the bloody table cloth, stuff him into a blue chest three feet wide, and bury him out behind her house. And this is standard fare for Patty Cannon. This is life at her tavern. So, she was born Martha Patricia Hanley. Some people say her first name was Lucretia, but they think that that's just a rumor that stemmed from Lucretia Borgia, who was the Italian noble woman who was famous for poisoning people. So, they think that just kind of got tacked on to her. But records of her early life aren't exact. She was believed to be born in 1760 in Montreal. Her father was a British nobleman turned bad boy who defied his parents and married a barmaid. So, her father's parents disowned him, and they

fled to Montreal. They have Patty and three other daughters. And so, Patty's father supports the family by smuggling and other crimes. So, she's basically born into a life of crime. It's very common for her. Basically, her father gets into a fight with someone who threatens to turn him into the local police. So, he kills the snitch with an axe. He's caught in the act, he's arrested, and he's hanged for murder. So, Patty's mom is left to support the family on her own. So, she forces Patty and her sister into sex work as well. And then, she tries to marry her daughters off so she doesn't have to take care of them anymore. So, around 1776, when she's 16 years old, Patty marries a man named Jesse Cannon, visiting Montreal from Delaware, where he is a farmer.

So, she ends up, she marries him and moves back to Delaware with him. And they move to a town called Johnson's Crossroads, which is now Resilience, Delaware, which is right on the Delaware, Maryland border. So, Johnson's Crossroads sits in the Delmarva Peninsula. So, that's right along the border. There are three separate counties, Caroline, Dorchester, and Sussex. And they all meet together right in this one spot. So, Patty and Jesse have two kids, Jesse Jr. and a girl named Mary. So, she works as a barmaid while Jesse farms, and eventually, she wants more money. So, she tries to add sex work back into her rotation. But she even, like her idea is she'll start, be a sex worker again, and then eventually become a madam and run her own brothel. But

she's such an unpleasant person. She has such a shit personality that most of her potential johns find her attitude off-putting. So, the brothel ideas, they're like, could you lower your voice? So, the brothel idea never pans out, because she just isn't very nice. This was the description of Patty Cannon from the Dover Post, quote, descriptions of Cannon, all written many years after her death, paint her as a rather fearsome person. She was, quote, massive of bosom, massive elsewhere. According to 1907 newspaper article, an Amazonian Paul Bunyan, who personally hogtied some of her kidnapped victims, she was, and then it says, she was more or less robust, had a wealth of black hair, and her face while showing the effects of her evil passions and

dissipations was more or less good to look upon. She was a hottie, but her attitude was poor. So, sorry, no sex work for you. Instead, she leans on her bartending skills and opens a tavern around 1784, when she's 24 years old, her own tavern, so that she basically, instead of the brothel, she just has a bar. Which is like middle age back then, essentially. She was scheduled to die within 10 years. Okay. So, soon after she opens this tavern, her husband, Jesse Cannon, senior dies under mysterious circumstances. So, Patty's left to fend for herself and her kids. So, sometime in the early 1800s, her daughter, Mary Cannon, Mary's a man named Henry Brereton. Henry is a blacksmith, but he's gotten into the illegal slave trading game. So, what happened was,

basically, they passed a law in 1807, which came into effect in January 1st of 1808, that was the act prohibiting importation of slaves. So, essentially, they made it illegal to import any more slaves into America. And it's supposed to limit the slave population and end international slave trading. But what happens is because slavery is still legally in the United States, it then leads to a rise in the underground slave trade, illegal slave trading market. And they call that the reversed underground railroad. So, basically, now plantation owners are willing to pay more for slaves. So, basically, if slaves ran away, you couldn't just go buy more. Right. So, they would pay people to go find them, bring them back, or just buy an illegally.

It's such a sensitive thing to talk about. We're talking about people. It's so crazy. So, what ends up happening is, with the illegal slave trade, these illegal slave traders go to free states and kidnap free black people off of the street. Whether they were ex-slaves, whether they were born free in those free states, whatever, they're kidnapping and getting them to boats and shipping them back down to the slave states. That's super dark, really creepy. So, essentially, in 1811, Henry teens up with the cannons to kidnap free black people and sell them back into the slave trade. So, Henry, Patty, and other accomplices, they would get other people to help them out. They join Joseph Griffith and develop a system. So, the guys find accomplices,

they troll the waterfronts in a ferry looking for free black men, women, and especially children. And then, they kidnap them through force or through trickery. Oftentimes, they would promise them work, basically kidnap them and hide them. Patty had built, in the attic of her tavern, she built this horrible jail. So, she could keep people there. She abused them. She tortured them. They were horrible conditions. And, essentially, they would stay up there while she was making arrangements with these slave traders. So, she was making money. They would make the exchange and then send the victims back down south. So, one way they would do this when they would end up tricking black people is Patty owned a slave herself who's just a boy named Cyrus James.

She bought him when he was seven years old. So, she would make and her gang would force Cyrus to trick people into boarding their ferry by saying, oh, are you looking for work? Here, come with me. I'm going to take you to a place. So, of course, they would trust a child, a black child. When they weren't kidnapping free black people, Patty and her gang are also making counterfeit money. And they're also robbing the tavern patrons, the rich tavern patrons. So, they were just basically an organized crime syndicate all at this tavern. So, in 1811, Henry gets caught during an attempted capture in Georgetown, Delaware. He's given a prison sentence for his crimes. But within a year, he escapes. He gets back to Patty's tavern. And there, he, Patty,

and Joseph Griffith, pick up right back where they left off. And then one day in the spring of 1813, they devise a plan to rob a slave trader who frequents the tavern named Ridgel. They get him drunk. And then as he's leaving for the night, they ambush his carriage and they rob him. But he fights back. And in the midst of that fight, Ridgel gets shot and killed. So, Henry and Joseph are captured and found guilty of Ridgel's murder and their sentence to death. And at noon on April 13, 1813, they're both hanged. So, so now Patty's in charge and it does not slow her down one bit. Because right after the new widow Mary, her daughter Mary, immediately marries another legal slave trader named Joe Johnson. Joe partners up with Patty to continue this same slave trading

enterprise that she'd built with Henry and Joe's an even better partner. They recruit as many as 50 to 60 other people to help them. And they become known in the area as the Cannon Johnson gang. And we will never know the exact numbers because there was a book written after her death that they think she had a hand in writing. Yeah. So they're not sure if the numbers are correct because but they think she killed around 30 people and sold thousands of black people back into slavery or into slavery for the first time, men, women and children. It's really sad. They're these stories because this became so common. There were posters on the streets of Boston warning black people to be careful not to talk to police, not to interact with police and not to believe anyone offering

them a job off the street. Which like you'll get in trouble for immediately if you don't talk to police and don't interact with police if they interact with you. But it's almost just like it's that steer clear thing. It reminds me of that scene in Lovecraft country where they're just trying to stop for lunch. Right. And they suddenly realize the cafe they're in isn't the safe place that they got in the green book. It's that place has been burned down and they are in a sundown town. Yeah. It's so scary. Oh, sorry. Spoiler alert. But it's the same thing where there's just traps everywhere. It's again that thing we talk about about black people culturally have not been safe ever. Right. They just don't they can't they can't feel safe. Yeah. It's it's not right.

So law enforcement of course looks the other way. They know what they're doing. But a lot of white people make money off of off of doing this. So this illegal the illegal aspect of this slave trading. No one no one's coming out and going this is wrong. You can't do it right at all. Right. But the crimes the can the can and Johnson gang they start committing all these crimes against white people and of course that's what gets the the authorities attention. So they start hanging out at the tavern paying more attention to what Patty and her people are doing. But she lives so close to the state line that anytime she catches wind that the cops are going to come and like take a look around. She just hops the border. And so she's she's out of the area and they

can't do anything about it. In 1822 a few members of the can and Johnson gang are finally caught one being Joe Johnson. And he's the only one that's brought to trial for kidnapping because he's he was basically the leader found guilty and his punishment is to be placed in the stocks and given 39 lashes. So he takes his punishment and then him and his brother Ebenezer take off for the south. Patty once again she's dodged the bullet. But that changes in 1829 when a tenant farmer working her land stumbles upon something interesting beneath the dirt a three foot wide blue chest. The farmer opens it and inside are the remains of the slave trader that Patty killed with Joe and Ebenezer back in 1820. So the farmer reports this finding to the local law enforcement

they go to find Patty but before they can find her they they wind up catching Cyrus James and Delaware who is Patty's young boy slave. So he's also wanted for his part in this illegal slave trading operation which is of course bullshit because he's a slave he's being forced to work with them. But the good thing is when the police question him he just spills the beans and tells them everything. He confesses to seeing Patty Joe and Ebenezer kill the slave trader and bury him in the blue chest. He tells them about all the horrors he's seen in the tavern about the attic jail about how Joe Johnson would whip the black captives who would say they're free they you know they're not they're not escaped slaves they were born free. He even says there are at least

three other bodies of victims Patty killed and buried on her land. He leads authorities to the locations and sure enough when they dig there they find three more bodies. A young boy who had been killed on June 1st 1824 when Patty hit him in the head with a wooden board and two other children who were both killed on April 26th 1822. Oh my god. So with the help of Cyrus James testimony law enforcement has all they need to arrest Patty and in April of 1829 she's caught and charged with four counts of murder she's found guilty and sentenced to death by hanging. But on May 11th 1829 Patty's guilty conscience gets the best of her she calls for a minister and she confesses that she's personally killed 11 people including her husband Jesse Cannon who

she poisoned as well as one of her own babies who she strangled when they were three days old. So yeah she was a fucking monster dude. Yeah and I think that's probably where the Lucretia Borgia thing came in because she poisoned her first husband. The same afternoon Patty's found dead in her cell at age 70. She had secretly smuggled arsenic into her cell and used it to poison herself three weeks before her scheduled hanging. So Patty's body is buried outside the Sussex County courthouse in Delaware but her remains are moved in 1907 when the area is exhumed for the development of a parking lot. So they end up burying her in a potters field near a local jail except for the skull. Somebody saw one of the courthouse employees who was there during the

exhumation saw Patty's skull that was separated from the rest of her remains and took it and kept it. They kept that in their family until 1961 when someone finally donated it to the Dover Library. So that skull has since been donated to the Smithsonian in Washington D.C. on long-term loan and in 2010 Dr. Douglas Owensley the chief of the division of physical anthropology at the Smithsonian announced his plans to conduct a forensic examination of the skull and uh saying he wished to preserve it as a part of a larger study of life in the Chesapeake from colonial times to the 19th century and that is the story of Patty Cannon and the reverse underground railroad. Fuck dude that was a whirlwind. I mean it's not enough there's so

I know it's uh you know we'll talk more about all this stuff yeah but the idea that you know this talk about a serial killer talk about talk about an evil evil person that we should know about yeah I think yeah this that whole idea of people who made money catching escaped slaves yeah it's Dr. Mangala it's fucking it's just people who are who are using the excuse of the times to do their fucking evil bidding and getting away with it wow that's fucking evil that's evil and horrible it's fascinating because this stuff went on for so long she's not the only it's not like this is a rare you know moment yeah history this is she's yeah she's the anti-harriot Tubman but what's cool is in in reading up on all this stuff

there the coolest thing about Harriet Tubman that I don't think I understood because basically the underground railroad went until obviously the civil war um you know through that and then Harriet Tubman they the the Union army hired her to be a spy because she knew all these routes down secret routes and places down to the south and so they basically would use her to go in and she would dress up as an old woman and no one paid attention to her and then she would go get that intel and information to bring back to the generals that's my favorite I mean everything else is incredible and amazing and her bravery and the fact that she went into slave states upwards of 30 times to to a free um escaping slaves yeah then she she worked for the for the

for the army too to during the civil war that's bananas that was incredible great fucking job and weirdly mine is like a my story this week is like and later 50 years later yeah okay good okay I love it and here's a here's a unsolved murder I hadn't heard about ever that we should know more about and we should know more about the woman um this is the murder of civil rights activist Alberta Jones nice so I got information from this from there's a great new york times article by tripp gabriel blackpass.org article uh face to face africa article uh black then dot com article by j jones w has 11 article by derrick rose and lina duncan um washington post article by denine l brown and um just yeah the

the it's just coming to light uh about this incredible woman okay so Alberta odell jones is born on november 12th 1930 to sarah francis crawford and odell jones which let's bring back the name odell what odell's pretty good yeah name um in louisville kentucky so Alberta attends louisville central high school and then louisville municipal college which was a school for black students only but it merges at that time with the university of louisville during desegregation so she graduates and this is a black woman in the 1950s she graduates third in her class hell yeah and gets her bachelor's degree from the university of louisville also at the top of her class basically she's really smart really driven and in 1956 she's the first black

person to attend the university of louisville law school uh she transfers during her second year to howard university school of law in washington dc which is the oldest historically black university law school in the united states and she graduates fourth in her class nice yeah and now she's killing it she's killing it yeah in 1959 she becomes one of the first black women to pass the kentucky bar and so she's taking the bar exam and a newspaper photographer shows up to take photos of her because it's historic and she says to the journalist at the time quote if i had known how much was depending on me because she didn't even know about that she was one of the first black women to even take the kentucky bar she said i would have studied harder and she said and i would

have worn something different for real she's like i would have sent a bunch of photographers and made sure like no pressure but you better pass this yeah so she was also like she was a great speaker she was really funny and you know charming and caring after passing the bar she returns to kentucky and opens a law office with partners in downtown louisville and over the next couple years alberta jones is profiled in the courier journal several times for her work and accomplishments and is described as cheerful and outgoing with a great sense of humor and there's this photo that kind of goes along with all of her articles and she's just this like darling bright lovely person with a big smile you know it's and a bigger brain than a ginormous brain just a g i think about

the guy brandom who i know who has passed the bar yeah and how smart he is and how much it takes to pass the bar because all of law study is memorization of specific detailed i i don't know how people do it it's and then such an accomplishment with the adversity of being a a woman which what did not happen back then to begin with and then be a black woman which was also so challenging yes and right she and she did it at the top of her class top of her class you know straight a but yeah there's is yeah incredible right so she's a member of several distinguished groups the fall city bar association the louisville bar association the american bar association and she's a member of the zeta five beta sorority which is the third largest predominantly african-american sorority

and their focus is on addressing social causes so social causes are really big for alberta jones this is the focus of her career she loves speaking to groups of younger women to try to get them to also go into law you know she's just she's a powerful person who could have who achieved so much in her short life and could have achieved so much more well that alone i mean being able to stand there and go i did it so can you yeah that's that's all most of us representation we need representation you need you just please show me one person that looks like me has a background like me you know and has gone somewhere and turns around and goes come on you can do it too totally it's invaluable so early in her career in 1960 um so she's got this neighbor you know long time

family friend his name is cassius clay and he's an up-and-coming boxer and yeah someone to negotiate his first professional fight contract for him and so are you kidding hires his friend alberta jones to uh you know of course he later becomes known as muhammad ali yeah and she against or like with or against 11 wealthy white businessmen working on this contract make sure that he gets a fair deal and even make sure that some of the money is put in a trust that he can't touch till after he's 35 because she's like i fucking know you're just gonna you know you're excited to spend it all so she yeah this fucking lawyer she negotiates this contract for him hell yeah amazing brilliant so she's also of course a massive civil rights activist a member of the NAACP

she marches in louisville protests attends the march on washington in 1963 in august and she forms the independent voters association of louisville and so she with that uh with that association she and they are able to register 6000 black voters nice louisville which is a huge amount of people if 6000 extra people voted in this upcoming election yeah it would sway things so you know 100 percent work it's important so i just have to stop you really quick to say that it is bumming me out where we're going with this because i've never heard of this person no i know and it's it's that it's that we had never heard of her and all her work and then we had never heard of the other stuff and it's it's we can it's time and you know washington post in

new york times and all these outlets are finally giving her and what happened to her the attention it deserves so amazing um i'm bummed i know okay me too when she's doing this voter association you know uh thing work she also rents voting machines so that she can teach you know teach the people how to vote when they get in there so they're not nervous and freaked out they know what you know needs to be done i'm sure it's a really i would have loved that right to vote for the first time yeah yes it's nerve and it's fucking you know these groups of black people who have never voted before and she wants them to be confident when they walk in and yes because of this her this movement ends up causing a major political shakeup in 1961 when black voters help oust the old school

mayor and many of the city's alderman they fucking vote those fucking old school racist dickheads out yeah because of their activism yeah so and because of this less conservative administration is is in place and louisville finally starts enacting anti-discrimination policies and uh alberta jones is also single-handedly uh able to integrate louisville city hall by forcing officials to hire black employees so she's this fucking little cute fucking sprightly smart excited powerful woman who's able to make these changes in her early 30s like yeah incredible well one better one better i mean when you actually have the joie dave that's right okay in 1964 alberta is appointed as city attorney in louisville the first woman to ever hold that

position in 1964 that's so incredible it's so good in february of the following year um she's also appointed prosecutor for the domestic relations court which is another first for a woman and a person of color yeah and she's responsible for prosecuting mostly white men for spousal abuse wow okay so let's get to the bummer part because this is a strong brave young woman and she's this force she's up and coming in her career and life it's a shock to everyone who knows her when on august 5th 1965 alberta at 34 years old is found dead in the ohio river it's uh near louisville's sherman menton bridge initially police think her death is due to drowning you know i don't know maybe they thought she had just jumped but her car has discovered several blocks from the bridge and

there's a massive amount of blood inside um and then they do the autopsy and they determined that she had received several severe blows to the head they think with a brick before entering the water unconscious and dies from drowning and it's it just doesn't there's no rhyme or reason the night she died alberta's sister flora shanklin says that her sister had gotten a call from a friend and that friend had been facing a lawsuit and like asked her to come out and discuss the lawsuit with her it was like late at night um alberta was like i don't want to but the friend kind of you know it was like a girlfriend convinced her to go out it doesn't seem like there's anything involved uh but with this but i don't know um and so flora says the last time

she talked to her sister um alberta was on the couch reading a magazine about how about the kennedy assassination which had happened like two years before and the last thing alberta said to her was casually i hope i don't get assassinated and flora responded you don't have to worry about it you're not the president of the united states and that just stuck with her oh yeah so police investigate the murder they find witnesses who report having seen a woman being attacked and dragged near the bridge by three unidentified men the night alberta died which i feel like in 1965 you didn't you didn't interrupt stuff like that i don't know they just saw it and moved on it's like they witnessed it and i don't know ran they didn't call anybody like this is domestic

i don't i don't want anything to do with this three against one is not domestic no who fucking knows unless you're having yeah no no and then strangely they find her purse three years after the murder hanging from that bridge the sherman mentin bridge almost like someone came back to get rid of the purse or he tried to give a clue three years later it shows up and um it has its its credit cards inside all the contents are still on there the checks and but the purse just shows up but the case does go cold and the family is left without answers okay so let's fast forward to 2013 a first year student at the uh brandice school of law her name is lee remington in some articles it's lee remington williams but the name lee remington is just a fucking you're a you're a

cow person you're a you're a cowgirl and you're fucking fighting the good fight right let's hope so she is she is so she's like passing through her hallway she's at her her law school she sees portraits of civil right leaders and she notices this photo of alberta jones and she is a big civil rights student she that's like you know one of her passions and she's like how do i not know who this woman this black and white photo of this woman with all these other civil rights leaders how do i not know who this is and then she looks more into alberta jones and she's shocked to learn um about her trailblazing accomplishments and her unsolved murder so she's shocked about it none of her classmates had ever heard of alberta either so she decides to start writing a biography

of alberta jones's life to get her more recognition and she even gets in touch with um jones's sister flora who's now in her eighties oh wow and so flora tells her all about her sister's death and how she thinks investigators ignored and buried evidence and she believes that someone she flora is uh flora thinks that someone paid the killers to kill her sister and that law enforcement didn't care about her sister's murder because they were indifferent about the murder of a civil rights activist at the time which is fair yeah for years police told the family there's not enough evidence to arrest anyone and that none of the original investors investigators were even still alive so they couldn't it wasn't even worth reopening the case and so when lee remington

starts her research in 2013 police tell her that the witnesses in the case are all also dead and there's like there's nothing to be done but lee remington gets access to the case file through an open records request and starts reviewing everything and she discovers that one of the detectives who worked on the case at the time um was super young when he was a detective and he's still alive they're they're not all dead and so she goes and interviews him and he tells her he was in charge of collecting most of the evidence and writing the case report back during the 1965 investigation and tells her some details and that there is evidence that was collected and you know you know like vacuuming the car for any trace evidence and fingerprints and shit

so she's like this could still be an active case then lee remington finds that there had actually been a new investigation into alberta jones's case in back in 2008 um because the fbi had matched a fingerprint found inside alberta jones's car to a man who was 17 years old at the time of the murder oh um who lived in the area he is referred to as cj because he's not an official suspect so we don't know his name so detective terry jones of the cold case squad had in 2008 had interviewed this man and this dude cj can't explain why his fingerprint is in this car and denies killing alberta jones although um the spot where her car had been found which was kind of far from the bridge was just a couple blocks from where he and his friends hung out and he claims

this guy cj claims he was a bookworm he just graduated from high school he was going to college and he also said so alberta's car at the time was in the shop so the car that she was driving where they found the blood in was a rental car and so this guy cj was like well i hitchhiked i i hitchhiked a lot so maybe that's why my fingerprint was in the car i don't think so i mean stranger things have happened however let's dig into this a little more yeah so cj offers to take a polygraph it's found that he's being deceptive but he's never charged with anything and cj's brother tells reporters that he and cj had known uh alberta jones and had met her because she was friends with one of their doctors but they didn't do it and his brother said he was

home with him the night that alberta was killed you know it's fishy but two years after the fingerprint discovery so it's like you know 2010 prosecutors write a letter to the police chief and let them know that they're not pursuing the case further because there aren't any blood samples from the scene available for DNA testing like there's not more evidence to test right why is there not more evidence to test they threw it away it's just missing her entire evidence box is missing so although a shit ton of evidence was collected by fbi at the time fingerprints vacuum samples from every inch of the car blood samples the purse and its contents her dentures cigarette butts from the car her shoes her clothes it's all missing whoa that's not that's a very bad sign

uh-huh and i bet it's somewhere like even if it's legitimate like they can't find it there's always those fucking storerooms and warehouses but then you always hear about the floods and the fires that like destroy evidence and it's just so we can't yeah if there if there was something much more sinister and calculated about it then like saying that those three people were hired to kill her right then they you know then then somebody could also have the juice to then make that case case file go missing right evidence go miss and there are people you know that that she had issues with although everyone loved her of course she was a prosecutor and she was prosecuting men for spousal abuse which is going to piss some people off and the people she had to work with

in the courthouse also didn't fucking love the idea that they are working with or fighting against a black woman so they're pissed about it you know it's like then there's also the her influence on on politics and the vote the voter right like basically like that's the power alone of that act yeah is huge yeah the people that are out there can have issues with her and yeah hire someone and it's it's a more complicated case to study but you that's your job if you're an investigator so um it's your job right and they also they uh the cold case unit says that there's no one involved with the case that's still alive again that's back then in 2008 that's their narrative but so Lee runnington now finds at this letter finds this letter um and starts to refute each point

she now has over almost 1600 pages of research that she's uncovered through public records she's fucking like down this rabbit hole which is amazing the most glaring one being that the that one of the detectives involved is still alive so she's like your argument doesn't make any sense i found him you can talk to him and but also is that the rule in cold cases if the detectives who originally did investigate it are alive then too bad like i don't that doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense that you you don't have primary sources but but you can also have that their their notes and interviews at the time should stand for that that's the whole idea of keeping files and having an evidence room and obviously exactly yeah so Lee Remington also

says that police back in 2008 failed to interview several friends that CJ had mentioned hanging out with some of who lived quote a stone's throw from where the witnesses reported seeing Jones abducted and she says that CJ should be re-interviewed people describe CJ as meek and harmless and actually Lee Remington says she doesn't think that he's the killer but she thinks he definitely knows more than he's letting on to yeah i think they described Ted Bundy as being meek and harmless as well and attractive uh huh um and there's also you know there's speculation of you know what we already talked about as well as um maybe her murderer has to do with the contract she was drying up for Muhammad Ali's fights you know which there's i mean there's no i haven't seen any

there's no basis for that but that's just speculation around town so in 2017 it seems like pulling the other famous name into the story right right and so that's still it's a lot of money it's a lot of money writing on this thing a lot of money maybe she's fucking with it and they don't like it you know maybe yeah maybe she's cutting in in a way that's like an established a precedent right that you know there it's like everywhere she went she was actually really powerful yeah and young and powerful and stirring shit up yeah which is great okay so in 2017 Lee Remington Williams now she's now a professor with a phd she sends a letter to the chief of the Louisville metro police department requesting that the department reopen the investigation and so the

civil rights division of the department of justice also decides to get involved and the investigation is funded because there's this new law that had come in the Emmett Till Unsolved Civil Rights Crime Act which provides 13.5 million annual funds to the department of justice the FBI and the state and local law enforcement agencies to investigate and prosecute pre 1970s killings and of course Emmett Till is a 14 year old african-american child who was lynched in Mississippi in 1955 after being wrongfully accused of offending a white woman and her family's grocery store and his white killers were acquitted it's just this whole what's the word travesty of justice it's this whole travesty of justice it's sick and so now all this money is

being put into investigate you know crimes like this that should have gone a different way yeah that should have been investigated and properly and prosecuted in a meaningful way exactly so finally 52 years after her murder Alberta Jones's case is officially reopened and this means her I know and this means her case also finally gets recognized by nationwide media outlets like the New York Times who did this great article about it and the Washington Post wow but her so it's reopened she's finally getting the attention she deserves and her legacy as a civil rights pioneer and advocate is also finally being recognized as well so because of the new attention around her case which is this tragic thing but also her work is being celebrated

and so uh-huh in the fall of 2017 Alberta Jones is honored in a hometown heroes ceremony including a large banner of her photo being hung in downtown Louisville at sixth and Muhammad Ali and it's this huge beautiful you know wow photo a local council woman sponsors a resolution to rename a street near Alberta's old downtown office honorary Alberta Jones Esquire Boulevard and there's portraits and plaques of her placed in the county's attorney's office the University of Louisville Law School and the library at Bellarmine University where she attended law school and a law scholarship at Bellarmine is now named in Jones's honor and at her high school central high school there's a new law and government magnet program and the classroom stands as a courtroom

and it's named in her honor oh I know that's so good uh-huh and there haven't been any new leads unfortunately yet in recent years although the attention that's like being um put on this case maybe will make some people want to you know confess what they know or finally you know talk yeah exactly but a sergeant on the Louisville homicide department says that the case is still open and as for Alberta Jones she has this quote so people were constantly doubting her saying you know she had gotten home from law school and they're like you have two strikes against you already you're a woman and you're black like what what do you what do you think you're doing and she would respond quote yeah but I've got one strike left and I've seen people get home runs when all they've

got left is one strike hell yeah and that is the story of civil rights activist Alberta Jones and her tragic murder Alberta Jones Alberta Jones name most people more people should know look her up I mean she's fucking I mean she's light and power and love there's so many stories though that are like this where it's it's the the murder of black people who are making an affecting change in places that need it so badly it's it's so part of the tragedy is how common this kind of a story is and how much we don't hear about it and how how you know swept under the rug it is yeah yeah and it feels like in his last you know in his last five months or so it's people are especially it's white people starting to wake up to the fact that they have this incredibly incomplete

education and picture of how this country has been working and how it needs to change yeah also just speaking about this because Alberta Jones is from Louisville they still need to arrest the cops that murdered Breonna Taylor fucking straight up murdered it has to happen and everybody knows this case this it's her face has been on the cover of Oprah magazine I mean it's like this it talk about something I bet you Alberta Jones would get behind in a very meaningful way if she if she wasn't murdered in the prime of her life right fighting for the murder of a young woman who was absolute had every one of her rights absolutely yeah there is no world that where you can argue that that was not murder from the from the the cop

who lied to get that warrant to the cop who fucking signed it knowing that it was incorrect and that the person who they were signing the warrant for had already been arrested that day to the number of bullets that were shot into everything going against the procedure I mean it's so egregious it's so beyond gotta change yeah great job beautifully done I'm so excited that I know who Alberta Jones is yeah yeah thank you for that yeah well okay let's let's end this by rooting some fucking arrays this is from Kelsey um at this Mrs Robinson I have a fucking hooray going back to teaching has um been one of the most stressful and trying seasons of my life not knowing what will happen between seasons she called it one of the seasons of her life

and I bet you she's not over 30 years old um she's definitely still in the spring winter area yeah okay not knowing what will happen between health safety mental health and the status of my job people insulting and manipulating the situation makes you question if it's all worth it but this week I was reminded why I chose this job the kids I teach three year olds to 11 year olds and they were messaging me how they miss me and love me I'm reminded that this is a season that will pass and reminded of the kindness in people shout out to MFM for highlighting the good and we can all persevere through these times together did you guys hear about the shout out in the leather candy episode oh yeah I know about that squirrely Dan is a fan too yay uh hey good job Kelsey

sorry you're in that situation and it's very smart of you to keep it positive like that yeah and thanks litter Kenny for the shout out we talked about that a long time ago right yeah but yeah hell yeah canada what's up canada um lovely this is from conman bell 14 on instagram hi Karen and Georgia my fucking hooray I wanted to share with you guys is as a 24 year old gay christian I recently came out to my parents and hope to soon introduce them to him my amazing boyfriend of three years oh my message to others is that no matter where you are in your coming out journey is that is that you matter and you are loved both inside and outside of the closet thank you ladies for doing what you do and for being allies to the LGBTQ plus community sscgm

Connor yeah Connor that's like double hard gay gay christian but you fucking did it like he did it what an incredible feat yeah we're proud of you awesome um yeah congrats yeah okay this one's from victoria my fucking hooray is that my family and I have been playing an uno championship since the beginning of lockdown yes we didn't have any idea how long it would last but we knew we would keep playing until one of us went back to quote normal life my dad went into his office last week so we finished our five month long championship and I won yeah with a score of 7342 the losing score was 8338 haha it's been such a lovely way to spend our evenings together especially as I'm going back to university soon and we will be living 3.5 hours away thank you murder gals love this podcast so

much you're all awesome keep doing what you're doing you are valid you are supported oh Victoria Victoria I needed that oh to all the kids going back to school fuck good luck yeah I've been really enjoying the university uh you know they all have to go two weeks before to like quarantine and the meals that they've been giving them that are disgusting meals yeah in their dorms we've been really enjoying those photos okay I'm enjoying how people are going back immediately 58 people get sick and then they cancel in-person classes which they should be doing yeah they should be doing yeah crazy this one's from Benji Souther here's a fucking array right as COVID started I found out my best friend had a move from DC to California for work that night I broke down and

told him I had feelings for him turns out he felt the same way too but we'd both been too nervous to say anything because he's a cis straight guy and I'm a trans gay guy and he wanted to make sure my gender felt respected and I wanted to be sure his sexual identity felt respected three days modern love I love it three days later I got COVID symptoms and moved in with him because I had been with my parents and they have heart they have heart disease long story short I'm typing this from a hotel room in western Nebraska on the third morning of our cross country road trip and because quarantine time is weird we're talking about marriage wow I can't remember the last time I felt this happy and I've saved a backlog of MFM for the trip so you've

been there with me for the ride SSDGM Ben and I looked of course had to fucking sneak and look at the Instagram that they and it's the cutest I cried I cried it's like it's the best things about social media it's beautiful that's so lovely congratulations um it's the younger generation they're they're gonna but they but like the the beautiful part of it is that like that's such a brave thing to do yeah that's such a strong brave kind of like important thing to declare feelings in such a risky situation yeah such a question mark it's so totally I mean it's like it's only one life and you get to decide what chances you want to take and are willing to take whether they're gonna work out or not you you get to decide and like are you gonna regret

you know when you're fucking 40 that you like me you didn't you didn't take those chances you know right yeah that you didn't like what the you calculated that risk yeah you did it right and it worked out for you and we're fucking stoked for you stoked and super jealous which I think is even better a better compliment is I kind of hate you a little bit for being so young and strong and modern that you're like you know what I'm so I'm valid of course I like me back where the fuck did you get that because that's self-esteem in in a nutshell that's how you build self-esteem that's how you build it that's what generics gen X parents give you that's right you know we we didn't get any you and I had fucking boomers as parents and they were like

you're gonna eat that a man will never love you if you're a 50 well Maria rich man Georgia Mary go to college they can meet a rich man get yourself a doctor what don't you want me to be a doctor that's not true my my dad would say get yourself a doctor my mom would say no become a doctor yeah you know that share quote where she goes uh my mom always told me to to marry wet or to marry a rich man and I said mom I am a rich man my fucking favorite listen to share whatever you do for real that's a that's a way to live a life right there that's right amazing that was a nice batch job everybody everyone's you know in the midst of a real shit time there are people who are making it work anyway congratulations just try a little bit

that's all you gotta do we believe in you um thank you guys for listening Steven thank you for um helping us in a RV right now in the middle of a desert in Arizona I love it if everyone thinks I'm in a desert yeah that's right Steven's in the middle of the desert in an RV he's doing he's doing Burning Man by himself this year yeah how is he engineering on that on the playa I'm already on ayahuasca yeah bring me back some that's why you're barfing on mute while we were doing our stories I love it send us your fucking raise wherever and thank you guys for uh thank you guys for being there for us we get lots of stories about like you we're here for you because you're listening to our voices or it's making you feel that you guys have changed

our lives so much for the better uh and and we can't we can't literally cannot thank you directly or properly especially in quarantine but we love you please know it deep in your heart and we mean you specifically you specifically you yes the one who thinks it's not you no no you're important to us here's another thing I want you to hear stay sexy and don't get murdered goodbye Elvis do you want a cookie