My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 25 - Twenty Knives

Episode Date: July 14, 2016

New favorite TV show talk followed by the Christopher Dorner killing spree and the tragic Cheshire Murders. Plus Georgia is bested by a hometown murder.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. Did it start? Hi, Karen.

Georgia, hi. How are you? Pretty good. And yourself? Thank you, good. Well, now we've never met before. Is that correct? Not in person.

This whole podcast has been over the phone. Right? Yep. But now you and I are legally married so you can enter the country. I'm so excited to not have to be Canadian anymore. It's such a disgusting place. Kidding. But we have to like, we have to fake our mayor, our green card marriage to the authorities

too. That's right. So you're going to have to know a lot about me. Who is my third grade teacher? You like, what did you say? Who is my third grade teacher? Oh, Mrs. Bacon? Yes.

Sorry. Go ahead. No, let's do more green card testing. I like it. That's a really funny thing. It's like, if you, you're not a true friend unless you memorize someone else's green card information so that you can pass a green card test. Would you green card marry someone?

It depends on the situation. Yeah. So if you're like, cool. I feel like that's, I did that already and you didn't even get anything out of it. You got some nice China. I really think that China has gone untouched and can be negotiated for, comes in a hutch, full set of gorgeous, totally untouched, yet probably slightly cursed wedding China. I think this time around I'm going to go for actually someone that I like and like, who

likes me bad. Yeah. I think it'll be better. I don't even think love needs to factor into it. I think, I could go for just high school crush style enjoyment of another person. Yeah. Just, I feel like the, like this is the mantra stoked to be around, like I don't have to love them.

You should be stoked to be around them. I mean, what's the difference? That's a good point, valid. I mean, it's, that all works out in the end, right? You just kind of end up with somebody. Yeah. Does that sound? Yeah.

And try to remain stoked. Yeah. And try to, try to be your best, stokeable person for them. Make sure you increase your stokeability. Yeah. So you're not like resisting it. Don't even increase it. Just like, make sure your stokeability is like on an even plane at all times, like not

at all times. Because today I fucking lost my shit and cried and was like, probably not the stokeiest person in the world. Yeah. I don't, who would want that all the time? To be around? Plus, I look so cute when I cry. You really looked great when you answered the door.

All mad. My eyes get bright green. Yeah. So do mine. Yeah. I look like that one alien lady from Star Trek when I cry, where it's like, it legitimately scares people because my eyes turn red in one instant. Yeah.

And it's, I kind of look like fire starter a little bit. Also, you like fires because you just get so angry. Can I tell you who I'm stoked on right now? Please. This is going to go into, I'm not sure if this is Celebrity Center or our new segment called Recommendations. Wait, do we call it, do we call that anything before when we talked about TV shows we like? No, let's just call it Check This Shit.

Check This Shit. Ben Air Boom. The new HBO series The Night Of is so good and I am so intensely in love with Riz Ahmed who's the lead guy. How is he so cute? It's because his eyes are unnaturally large and he uses them against you. Yes. Like he is a trickster.

Like he looks so innocent in this and sweet and like. What was he in before this? Sad. He was in Nightcrawler. He was the assistant in Nightcrawler and he's been in, he's been in a bunch of stuff. Like he was like in the Centurion movie with Michael Fassbender. Like shit, you're just like, oh yeah, that guy was in that, that one guy. Yes.

Well, he's often plays a Middle Eastern person so it's that because he's Pakistani. And so like he was in The Reluctant Fundamentalist, I believe it was called with Ray Donovan. You know, it's, and he's British, that's the most amazing part. Is he British? Stop it. It's one, it's one episode and that was like, and it was like a pre-pre-showing of it. Yeah, it was a sneak preview. We don't even get the second episode.

And what's this? Isn't it Tonight? Someone told me it was Tonight. Someone told me that they're showing the actual first episode tonight. So re-showing the one we've already seen. Yeah, which is stupid. So maybe not. I don't watch it.

Fuck, it's so good. It's about. It's like a play. It's like a play. It's about a dude who basically finds, let's say he finds a body. Let's just say, why explain it? And go watch it. Yeah, because, because once you get into it, see, like when I saw the previews, I thought

I knew what it was. And then once I watched it, I was like, oh, this reminds me of the way the wire felt. It's a who done it. Yeah. And John, it's like a who done it with John Turturro. What more do you fucking need in your life? But also all those actors, like that guy that played the one cop with the mustache at the station is from Angels in America.

Like there's all these Broadway and like very high level, but not like super commercially known actors in there. So it all feels really real. I like that. So the main cop really, it's the procedural shit is interesting because the way they talk him into getting a DNA sample from him and then casually say, we also need to swab your dick, bro. Yeah.

It was like, it seemed so realistic. It's horrifying. It's just horrifying. Yeah. And they're like, why do you need a lawyer casualty of it all? Let's not give too much away. All right. Get into it.

It's you. You'll thank us. Get into it. Come back to us. Let us know what you think. Also, keep your eye peeled for Riz Ahmed, who will be one of the stars of the next Star Wars movie. Mm.

He's just an up and comer. He's, he's a fresh young face that will be mine. Says Karen Kilgariff. Man, that's Karen Kilgariff's take. That's like, that's like the, like the movie review on like entertainment tonight. And that's Karen Kilgariff's take. Yeah. Didn't you have a recommendation?

Nothing. That was it. Wait. We have the same one. No. Yes. But we were also talking about bloodline and how you said it. What were you thinking about Florida?

I can't. Well, I couldn't watch it for, I tried to like binge watch it, but I started getting high on Florida where I was feeling dizzy. It was all those like beautiful, slightly out of focus shots of the beach. And like when all the Christmas lights go, it looks like the beginning of the focus features title card. That's what that whole TV shows like. It's also like, it's like, it's like 102 plus all the humidity.

Yes. You know, and then what's her name? The sister. Linda Cardellini. Thank you. I like, I knew you'd know that. Yeah. I'm a fan.

I'm a lawyer. Are you fucking kidding me? Like you mean like her very skimpy sundress, you know? She wears these skimpy as fuck shorts and these like platform like pay less. And I'm not talking shit on pay less because I fucking wear the shit out of payless shoes. But you can't go into a court of law dress like that. You'd be held in contempt. Girl.

That's Florida. Yeah. It's a lot. And her hair is almost so perfect. I know I'm lady shaming right now. Well, it's a TV show. And Kevin is just the most realistic character in the whole show. Is that the fuck up brother?

That's the fuck up brother. Yeah. All right. Yeah. We had one of those in my family. Fuck up brothers. Like no matter what happened when they were coming back into town, it was like, oh, everybody get ready.

That's why I'm scared to have kids. Like what if you have the fuck up kid? Yeah. Oh, speaking of which, it's not one and four every four people's associate path. Dude, this is corrections corner. Corrections corner. Because I was about to say you're the one and four chance. I was about to repeat my same incorrect information.

That's what I'm like. You guys. Correct me. And someone I believe off of memory was named Clint Page on the Facebook page who said, I don't want to be a corrected person, but it is not one and four. And then all these other people were like, it is. I think they were saying it's 25%. Right.

It's like, hey, oh, so next week, look for next week's correction corner where we correct or say. There's some there also, so there's one and four people are not psychopaths. It's like one in, it's not a percent, I don't know, it's not one and four. It is not one of four. That's way too high. That's way too low. That's way too many.

Also we got a really beautiful email just letting us know. The last week I did Kitty Genovese as my favorite murder and also a kidney Genovese, the kidney Genovese. No, because I was sad because I think she got stabbed in the kidney. No. So Karen, that's really insensitive. I didn't. I miss her.

That she might have, it's probable that she was a lesbian. Yeah. They talk about that in the crime to remember episode. Right. And it's not, you know, this real, this girl wrote a really beautiful email to us about how it's like, she's not trying to correct us and it, you know, it's not. It's just a part of it that's like not fair that she didn't get it to be represented as how she was.

And the girl who had to pretend to be her roommate, you know, actually had a huge loss of her partner. Yeah. And how sad that was. And, you know, now we're in a time when we can, we can say that she was a lesbian and not, it not be like somehow taint the tragedy of what happened. Well in that episode of crime to remember, they talk about their gay relationship as being also why people weren't calling the cops because they said there were other gay

people in that building that knew, like you don't involve the cops no matter what. Whoa. That was part of the element. But when you were talking about it, because it was from the brother's perspective, yeah, I wasn't going to be like, well, it'll also this, because it's like, if it wasn't in the movie or if he didn't talk about it, maybe they didn't want it. Well, here's the thing. I didn't finish it because my fucking computer wouldn't upload it.

So that could be the whole second part of the goddamn show. Okay. Okay. That's yeah. So if everybody gets, I mean, that's awesome that somebody wrote in, if you've got a chance that be a crime to remember episode about it is really good too. We always close what? They were the ones that thought that that guy did not do it.

That got caught. Right. There was a neighbor. Yeah. We always close correction corner, which we've never done before with saying, if you're getting your facts from here, you're like, look, look somewhere else, bro. Right. So we like to discuss concepts more than facts and fantasies also.

Yes. More than facts. Like there's a reason that this podcast is categorized as comedy and not very a pretty good reason. Yeah. It's not drama. We're fucking hilarious. It's not fact based.

We do our best, but there's so much talking that it's very easy to do. Oh, I guess what I did. What? Guess what? I didn't fit a fucking manic episode last night. What? I started an Instagram account. Oh, nice.

I saw you tweet that. Right. Yeah. I'm my favorite murder Instagram account. And what are you putting on there? All our arts? I think all the yeah, all the arts and crafts and all the like, I just love all the like the inspirational quotes of every episode that are made by Shaz Amanda.

She does an incredible job of just like finding the stupidest quotes we put in like making them into like these like great posters. You know, looking posters, but it's things like, I hope we don't get stabbed right to don't be a fucking lunatic. It's very good. So there's a lot of art that people are making them and posting and wait, are you talking about the memes? Are you talking about that girl that does like hand lettering?

Both. Oh, okay. I put them both up. Got it. So I'm just going to post, I'm going to post things and stuff related to the podcast. That's good. We can also do pictures. Like remember that time that I did that there was that terrible man, oh, he was one of the,

he was in the story about the babysitter killer. Oh, yeah. He had the craziest, scariest looking mugshot of all time. Go to Instagram to see his photo. Yeah. I think you're first this week. Right as right as you got perfectly comfortable. I'm so comfortable just now.

I waited till you adjusted that pillow. All right, so I didn't know that I have, I have a hometown murder, but it took place 15 years after I moved away from my hometown. So is it technically my hometown? Yeah. If that's where you're from. So we got this really great email from this dude who was like, I've heard you mentioned you're from Irvine and that you worked in the Woodbridge Village Center at this place

where I could have been killed. And we're like, I just want you to know where we're doing it. And if you come and like visit it, I'll take you to the parking, the parking garage where Christopher Dorner's killing spree started. Whoa. And I was, and he's like, which I'm sure you know about. And I was like, wait, what? Do you know about this?

I know about Christopher Dorner. Yeah. So I do too. But, and this happened in 2013, which is like not that long ago, which seems like, it seems like so much longer ago. And I didn't realize it started in Irvine. I didn't either. Yeah.

So in February of 2013, Christopher Dorner, who was 33, started his killing spree that lasted, I think two days, couple days, few days, like a week, what is life? So he grew up in Southern California. He was a former United States Navy Reserve officer. He was deployed to Baharan. He was discharged from the Navy in 2013. I think it's Bahrain. Bahrain.

Fuck. I just, that's a guess though. I could also be wrong. As I was saying it, I was like, I'm not going to be like a Fox News correspondent who says everything wrong. And so I like said it wrong. Sorry. No, don't sorry.

Me sorry. Okay. So after his tour in Iraq, it's Iraq, right? Or is it Iraq? I pulled that A out way longer. Iraq. Iraq. Iraq.

He goes to Los Angeles. He goes back to the police department in 2007. He's paired with a training officer named Teresa Evans to complete his probationary training. In 2008, he files a report against her that she used excessive force in her treatment of a suspect who was a schizophrenic with severe dementia. And he says that Evans twice kicked this suspect in the face while he was handcuffed and lying on the ground. I don't know.

Sound effects by my fucking psychotic child neighbor. Do you hear that out of his mind, screams all the time and laughing loud laughing from a child is upsetting. I think he's crazy. Like I feel bad for them. I think. Yeah. He sounds pretty insane.

So, so after he files this report, Dorner gets fired from the LAPD in 2008 for making false statements. Oh, they were like, you're fucking lying basically. And his attorney at the hearing is a Randall Kwan QAN. And he's like defending Dorner saying that he was he was treated unfairly and he's being made a scapegoat basically, you know, saying the police department didn't want to admit that she used excessive force. So they fired him instead.

Wow. Because you're not basically not allowed to rat out your fellow officer. That's what it seems like Dorner assumed. So he tries to get his job back with the LAPD's Board of Rights rejected his appeal. He took his case to court with Randall Kwan as his attorney and a judge ruled against it in October 2011. So Dorner's like basically snaps at this point. So the murders start weirdly enough with the murder of this Randall Kwan's daughter and

her fiance in Irvine in a parking structure, which I was just looking up and I'm pretty sure it's where my dad's apartment was. No. Yeah. Which is across. Like they lived in the same place. Yeah, I think so. So I think it happened across the street from where I grew up.

Wow. Where my dad lived because I don't even know. So February 3rd, 2013, he just fucking goes up to them, they're in their car in a parking garage and shoots them and like, remember that coming out in the news and it and finding out who the father was and being like, oh, shit, this is like, you could tell it was a revenge killing immediately. And it's just such a fucking huge bummer that this girl and her 27 year old fiance named Keith Lawrence just got shot to death because this guy went crazy.

So immediately you have no sympathy for this dude. So this is his public defender that he basically or maybe not public defender, but this is his lawyer for that case who they lost the case and he didn't get his job back. And so he went and killed that lawyer's daughter and fiance. And he had this crazy manifesto basically saying basically saying that he didn't fight hard enough, he says your lack of ethics and conspiring to rung a just individual or over suppressing the truth will leave the deadly consequences for you and your family. There will be an element of surprise where you work, live, eat and sleep.

Look your wives slash husbands and surviving children directly in the face and tell them the truth as to why your children are dead because you killed them. I mean, and the don't kill the judge, not the fucking lawyer's family. I'm sorry. Right. We don't have to pick. Okay. You're right.

You know what? Don't kill anyone. A. Yeah. I think that's the option. All right. Right. I'm going to get hate.

Send your send messages to care. You're just going to solve the problem, which would be don't kill the family, but yeah. Right. Rebecca Kwan and Keith Lawrence fucking shot to death. So he has his crazy manifesto. He wants to seek revenge and he just like writes this insane. I will bring unconventional unconventional and asymmetrical warfare to those in the LAPD uniform, whether on or off duty.

Like this motherfucker is like he's on one. He's targeting a large group of people rather than, you know, individuals, which is terrifying. He says he was terminated after he reported excess force and his and his attacks are retribution first termination as well as cultural racism and violence that continues within the department. So while search. So suddenly this huge man hen is on for Dorner police shoot to. So police suddenly just start shooting people because they're freaking the fuck out. So there's a truck that that the cops thought was his truck.

They shot the shit out of it. Yeah. That's those were the two women delivering the newspaper and they just started shooting a truck. Yeah. And if you there's photos online of like how many fucking shots are in this truck. They also had another pickup truck matching this description of like a dude who was like on his way to go surfing and fucking orange count or like.

Then they shot it up. They shot the shit out of this truck, both everyone lived, but they also sued the shit out of. Yeah. Yeah. They did. Yeah. Yeah.

But at the same time, I'm pissed about that, but I'm also like, how terrifying. I mean, which is which is better? Well, I mean, this is the kind of the crux of everything that's happening right now. Yeah, it's scary. It is a high pressure job, it is a scary job, and it's the kind of job where you have to be able to handle yourself with a gun. So if you think that basically you can't start shooting vehicles because you think your suspect is inside.

No. That's not the way you're allowed to apprehend people. And the other thing too is like as a police officer, there's an amount of danger involved with your job that you sign up for. So you approaching the vehicle and IDing the suspect and possibly getting killed by doing that is what's supposed to happen, not the possibility of civilians getting killed. Right? Yes.

And I mean, and that's why there's procedures so that when you approach that vehicle, you're calling in, you know what I mean? Like it's like, did they yell put your hands outside of the vehicle and those two women, they didn't get close enough to see it was two women. They didn't get close enough to see that they didn't speak English. I don't know what the problem was. I don't know the details about it, but like it doesn't make sense that you just it's also a large, Jordan was a large black man and they shot up two women and like a white

guy. It was a surfer. Yeah. So like clearly they weren't. Yeah. They weren't doing enough research into this blah, blah, blah. So what makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill?

I'm Candace DeLong and on my new podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent and criminal profiler. From Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton Serial Killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia and even

host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast, Killer Psyche Daily in the Amazon Music app, download the app today. They find his truck abandoned and burning near Big Bear. And I remember this at this point, I was like, fuck, thank God he's not in Los Angeles. Like I totally didn't leave the house. And then two of Riverside's officers were shot in an ambush. One died, the other one was taken to the hospital.

And then they believe, they believe he just drove up to the vehicle at a stoplight and fired with a rifle at these two dudes. 34 year old Michael Crane, who was on the fucking Riverside force for 11 years died. They searched at least 400 homes in the area. Terrifying. Do you think they found anything in certain people's houses that were like, we'll be back for this? Yeah.

Your weird sex swing in the corner. Yeah. This meth lab, we'll be back for this. Oh yeah. Right now? Today's your lucky day. Yeah. It's about that.

But we'll be back. Tomorrow will be your unlucky day. So the manhunt enters the second week, so it's two weeks, and then Karen and James Reynolds are cleaning out their Big Bear Cabin that they owned and rent it out not far from the command center when they were confronted by Dorner who had been living there for a couple days. Oh, so he broke into their empty Big Bear Cabin. Yeah.

I also want to talk to Karen and James about why they're cleaning out their cabin at a time when there's a massive manhunt for like. Oh, that's not going to affect us. We'll just go up there and grab that Wood Bear toilet paper dispenser. You know, my aunt Susie is coming up for the weekend, and you know how she gets about dust bunnies. Why are they, why are they southern? It's fun.

That's how people know we've gone into a scene lit, which is our newest segment, scene lit. So Karen and James, but they're kind of bad asses because they were tied up and blindfolded. He took the keys to their maroon Nissan Rouge. Didn't know that was a car. I don't think it is anymore. It probably isn't because of this. Just continued.

But he, he kind of was like, he said to them like, I don't want to kill you fuckers. Like he wasn't trying to kill civilians, except for the lawyers. I think he thought like he had his kill lists. He wasn't just going berserk. Yeah. Okay. He didn't want to kill this dude. This, this couple, he just tied, you know, he could have shot them and everyone and like

taken whatever he wanted it and lived there. He could have shot them and stayed there and he didn't, right? Not defending him. Just saying. Yeah. So they use their teeth and a knife. They knocked up a nearby table to remove the pillowcases from their heads and zip ties from the wrist and then called 911.

Fuck dude, Karen. And who? What's her husband's name? Richard. Georgia. We're the heroes. Karen and James Reynolds. So these, I mean, who escaped, escaped zip ties on the reg.

It's Ryan Reynolds parents. That's why they're so awesome. Right. So let's see here. Okay. They spotted him driving. Sorry. This was in, what season is it?

Is there snow up there? Oh. Is it summertime? This is December, right? What did I say? October. Sorry. Karen.

I'm really sorry. I'm trying to paint a mental picture of my mind. Your quizzes. Your quizzes. Every week. You quiz me. Now what season? Yeah.

That's it. And when was he wearing underneath his coat? So this started in February. So. So there was probably snow. Mid-ish February. Yes. It's probably cold.

Okay. Why? Because I love Big Bear. It's fun. Have you ever gone like inner tubing up there? No, but I need to. The best. When you like hang out in an inner tube and drink beer and wander around the, or like when

you. Well, that would be on a river. Okay. Is what you're thinking, right? Yeah. That's summertime. Okay. But in the wintertime in Big Bear, they have mountains just off the side of the road

and you can rent inner tubes. Yes. And then you go up a little like cloth escalator up the side of the snowy mountain, get up on the top. There's like a teen there with a whistle or whatever. Yeah. And then you just go down and it is the most fun. If you're following an Instagram account, you will see a photo of me at five years old

and inner tube and Big Bear. Yes. Moving on. Going down the snowy hill. Nice. My dad lived in Lake Arrowhead for a hot minute. Do you have a photo? Let's post your fucking tubing photos.

Let's give the people what they want. Instagram, inner tubing photo. Murder and tubing. I might just put up a picture, just a picture of an inner tube and just a celebration of inner tubes. Because they really, summer, winter, fall, what a great vehicle for fun. Tubes. The inner tube.

Tubes. Tubes. Tubing. Sorry. No, don't, never be. Oh wait, where was I? Karen and Richard have just escaped from the clutches of- Oh my God.

Then they find a purple car because how many purple Nissan's are there on the roads? Probably not a lot. Purple Nissan Rouge. I feel like that was his, besides killing people, his biggest mistake. Yeah, don't get into a purple car. Don't get into a purple car. What do you fucking guy, Fieri? Get out of that car.

This is not the time to floss. This is not the time to be quirky in your car. Escapism means a beige or white car. That's exactly right. Right? How about a nice gold Corolla? No one will ever look at you. Gold?

That's not flashy. It's like bright gold, but you know, like a kind of- Muted. A muted gold. A bronze. Muted tones. A bronze. Bronze.

But you know what? A light blue. The car I drive, so boring. Yes, that's right. Light blue. I hate it. I want a car that like I walk into a parking garage, such as the one that these poor people got killed in, and I'm gonna be like, that's my orange car over there.

You do want that? Yes. You do want an orange car? Yes. Okay. I really want an orange car. But can you give me an example of an orange car? There's a lot of Honda Fitts that are orange.

Oh, yes. Right? Would you say it's a little more copper than like say a clown? It's a burnt orange. Great. And I love it. That's what I'm looking for is not clown orange. Good.

Okay. Can I go on? No. Also, how do you feel about dark blue? Electric blue I'm cool with. Okay, cool. Dark blue. Cool.

Cool. Cool. Cool. Okay. Okay. Let's see. They spot his car. He's tailing two school buses for cover.

So a purple car is tailing two school buses. You mean like to hide behind them? Yeah. Like to just be like, I'm inconspicuous. Oh, yeah. No. Don't do that. Gun balances.

He crashes and he runs and quickly hijacks car jacks, a pickup truck. Again, saying to the dude, I don't want to kill you, get the fuck out of the car. Like not going to kill innocent civilian or like un, not innocent, but uninvolved involves aliens. Goes to a cab. You say not in its sense. Are you just worried that maybe I'm not saying that I'm just saying that those people are are innocent.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. But they're not involved. So I don't say they're not innocent. They're innocent too. Okay. The dude Collins shows up at the Big Bear Cab and where he's at the first there. We want to know where he gets shot.

Wait, wait, wait. Who's Collins Collins is his cop. This San Bernardino police officer deputy. He gets to the cabin where Doran has read into after his. He crashes his pickup truck. Okay. Got it. He makes his final stand here.

We're coming to a close. Don't worry, people who aren't into killing sprees, which I understand gun drawn. He gets from the cabin. He shot, but he doesn't, he lives. So don't worry about it. Yeah. He's a nostril. Oh.

Shattered his teeth and exits slightly below his jaw. This is the Collins, the new guy or Collins, dude. Oh, shit. Who made a joke later that he looks better now than he did before. Like he's a sweet baby angel. God bless him. I am. And he survived.

I wouldn't hate getting my teeth shattered out in brand new ones. I'll just say that. Karen. I'm just saying. There's always a positive. No. I'd like him kicked out. So you're going to come with me to the PO box or what?

So we'll do it. All of our dreams are going to come true. Oh, my God. I'll keep you from getting killed by putting my teeth in front of whatever the weapon is. She threw her teeth in front of the bullet. She gave up those slant upwards slanty Irish teeth as if they were nothing. Your teeth are fine. Says the girl with an invisible eye.

That sounds like a Madeline book. Yes. All right. And the fucking Collins shot again below his left knee. That's got to hurt. And in his left arm. In his face and knee and arm, which this guy, this guy, Dorner was a sharpshooter from the Navy.

So maybe he didn't. I mean, you get shot in the fucking face. You're trying to kill someone. You're trying to kill someone. That's a headshot. That's a headshot. You can't really talk your way out of that. No.

Also, you made that list of people you're going to kill. Yeah. And this or like this guy, you like it lives in San Bernardino, probably with like his sweet kids and like wife, whatever ex-wife, I don't know. And now he's okay to the point where he can make jokes about it. That's what it seems. That's what the news says. Great.

What the news. That's all I need to know. Okay. Yes. So yes. Good. So police toss smoke devices into the cabin, cabin catches fire and burn for hours. And he was inside.

Yeah. The sheriffs, they said they found charred human remains among the ashes. So do we even know if it's his body? And also people said that he had, he had a gunshot in his head, but we don't know that. I don't know if that's sure. So he killed himself and then the cabin burned down. No, I think he probably was dying from smoke and then I don't know. And then shot himself.

You know, I stopped investigating at this point. Karen. Sorry. Sorry. Well, I just remember the story. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, they have him surrounded.

They had him surrounded for a while. Then it was like, we're going in. And then it was like, he's dead. It's over. I was watching this shit probably at a bar. Yes. You know, like this was a big news story here in LA. It really was.

I think LA, we hate our car. What are they called? Car chasers? No. We as people who live in LA for a long time are sick of the news being like car chases. They're fucking egregious and stupid and obnoxious. I only saw one recently that ended amazingly where this, this woman is like making all these crazy.

No, no, no. This person is making all these crazy turns. I just gave it away. Yeah. And she like finally stops and gets out of her car. Hands up. It's a woman, everyone in the public house that I've been cheer because they're sick that it's a chick.

And she starts walking towards one with her hands up, then fucking makes a bolting beeline to the cop car to steal the cop car and go away and everyone in the bar like is fucking cheering for her and she gets caught, but it was like the sweetest move. That's amazing. Yeah. It was great. What drugs do you think she was on? All of them.

Okay. Yeah. At least what's the one they always told you not to do? Because it's like. Angel dust? Yeah. That's the one where you lift the cop car over your head. Let's, how about our Paris or what's not, what's it called our Instagram?

No, the one you make money off of. On social media? The PayPal. No. Anyways. Patreon. Patreon. Thank you, Steven.

How about a Patreon? We do angel dust. Just see what happens. It's just a video of us doing angel dust. Yep. Like kids. Here's what happens. I'm putting this on the to-do list.

We're going to get dusted. All right. I'm finishing this up. I'm so sorry. But, but here's the crazy thing is the police, Los Angeles police announced the department reopened the investigation into his case that led to his termination after he was dead. What? And Chief Beck said, I do not appease a murderer, I do it to reassure the public that their

police department is transparent and fair in all things we do. Wow. I know. What, that happened recently? This happened on Google. Why have I asked you one question? I feel very bad. Should I be embarrassed?

No. Not at all. I just meant like, was it a, a, I know what you mean, I get, here's my thing. It seems like every day we spend every other police department in the world looks terrible and slowly, but surely LAPD doesn't seem so bad. They really don't. These days. These days they don't.

Uh, if you watch the, the Simpsons 30 by 30, they don't look so good. They don't. And that's why I feel like they're trying to be like, sorry about that one. But I mean, something like that where it would be worst case scenario if it was like, what if he was right the whole time? Yeah. That's nightmarish. Well, some people get fired and don't go fucking, no, that's, but guess what?

They don't get talked about on my favorite murder. Do they? That's right. Uh, well, also the fact that there's a, probably if at least a 50 to 50 chance he had PTSD from being. Absolutely. Like it was. From being in Baharan.

Where is it? Bahrain. Bahrain. He probably had PTSD. His neighbors said that he was a member of an, of an admired well liked family who usually kept to themselves. That's always a bad sign. Yeah.

Don't keep to yourselves. Yeah. Put it out there on the porch. He was divorced in 2007. No kids. So he probably lost his mind. And then you lose this job that you've been working towards since high school when you, when you went into the Navy.

Yeah. That's your probably your identity. Yeah. That's like what. And he was probably correct in her using excessive force and he was probably correct in the internal racism, which we all know is a very real fact that all police departments aren't allowed to acknowledge. Like this guy would have gotten his day of celebrating if he just had not gone on a killing

spree. Like I feel like by now he would have been like, uh, but I, but you know what they, well I wonder that'd be really interesting to know if, like if it goes back that if it reverses itself. But the problem is like he was one of those people where he couldn't handle the shame. Oh yeah. He was basically publicly shamed and had his identity taken away. And then it's like those, there are people who if you, if you do that to them, they have

to retaliate. Yeah. And I guess sit with it. He, he reported this crime in 2008, what happened in 2007. He got a divorce in 2007. So it's just like he's in a world of pain. Yeah. So I did.

So I of course went to Reddit because I'm like, what do they have to say? It's always something good. So Doc Gray, one eight seven zero, zero, zero. As I read that I'm like, he might be not one eight seven. He says his manifesto sounded so plausible. I don't want people killed, uh, or other way, but it's understood that sometimes humans have to kill humans. Isn't it cops, carry guns, soldiers, carry guns.

The only question is justification, right? So if the government and their guard dogs are thoroughly corrupt as Donner asserted, the NUs unnecessarily deadly force have callous disregard for human life and aren't a mutual protection agreement with prosecutors, what are good people supposed to do? Yeah. And he says, do you know how Dorner was caught? He carjacked a dude on a secluded road and told him, I don't want to hurt you. And then let him go.

And that dude turned him in. He also commandeered that cabin, but let the residents live, um, contrast with the innocent civilians, the LAPD hurt and their quest to get Dorner and his gruesome death. Who am I supposed to root for? Well, that's a, it's not a binary thing. It's not, you don't root for anybody because here's the thing. Those cops didn't want to kill anybody, but they were reacting. They are the ones being hunted.

And maybe they weren't trained well enough to know what to do in a situation like that. It immediately just makes me go the night, the night that they investigated the John Benay murder. They sent the two newest cops over because it was Christmas. Yeah. It's that kind of thing. Before we get hate mail, I want to assure everyone that I don't hate cops. I think they're fucking, I think the majority are working their asses off to be good people

and have, you know, the best interest of, and it's a hard job and you're putting your life on the line. You just only hear about the bad ones. Well, but, and, but the problem is I heard a DJ talking about this. I tweeted about it, a DJ. He was just saying, there's never any, they just never cop to anything and you can't do that when you're shooting people dead in cars, when, when you have people who are shooting people in the back or strangling them on video, you can't continually be like, they're innocent.

They're innocent. That's when you're built. If you, if you're never being a stand up, you know, and, and never, you know, these are obviously getting, if you're not getting punished by the higher ups and saying that they did this thing wrong, that means that there's no accounting for the behavior and it's acceptable. Yeah. That's the huge fucking problem.

And if it's the same people, but getting targeted all the time, I mean, this snares you right into the Christopher Dorner story, snares you into everything that's happening right now. I know. In our culture. I know. That'd be horrifying if it, if he was completely innocent and then just basically snapped as opposed to the story that was built in the media is kind of like, Oh, here's this crazy

guy that like tried to lie about somebody else and, you know, they had, they had him like vilified from the beginning. Yeah. Well, I just touched probably a ton of nerves of listeners. So go to my PO box and let me know what you think. I feel like people listen to this to get nerves touched. I mean, that's the whole idea. By the way, I also checked out my PO box number.

Yeah. If you can't live with it, why do it? I can't do it. Yeah. I'd rather not have presence from listeners. I think it's fine. So yeah, that's my favorite murder this Irvine Irvine. Here in.

How is that? Was that okay? Yeah. Yeah. Mine happens in the same year, there's a lot of similarities, which is super weird. Interesting. And this is a murder story that I had two different separate non people that don't know each other.

Friends of mine ask if I had done the story. It's the Cheshire murder. And you've probably seen a 2020 or a nightline about it. It was super famous. It happened around the same time as the Oklahoma bombings, but it was more talked about in the news more consistently because it was that really infamous Connecticut home invasion story. That's a nightmare.

Home invasion. From start to finish. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. And also it's just, this is just sinister and creepy because Cheshire, Connecticut. So there's a documentary on HBO called the Cheshire Murders, highly recommend. I watched that this morning and it will tell you the entire story, but it's very hard because it's all the relatives.

So it's just like everybody right there on camera talking about how it feels and it's incredibly rough because this is a multiple rape murder situation on a family who live in one of those towns where when they show all the shots, it's like all the A frame houses with the lawns. There's no fences between any of the yards. And the area these people lived in was pretty upscale. So basically what happened is on the night of July 22nd at 730 at night, Jennifer Hock Pettit went to the stop and shop with her 11 year old daughter, Mikaela.

And they're, they're just shopping for groceries and they're spotted by a recent Piroli named Joshua Kamasuriecki is basically how you pronounce that last name. They said it in the, in this documentary probably 30 times and every time I'd say it along with them or repeated after I heard it and I still, it's Kamasuriecki or Kamasuriecki, I'm not sure. Okay. So this guy's watching them in the grocery store, a very, I might as well just get to this part now, very upsetting part in this documentary is this guy who is in his like

mid to late 20s, I want to say 27, I can't, I can't see it on my paper, but he had a girlfriend like in the years prior and the father of that girl, he, that this guy dated talks on camera about how they said that they thought they wanted to get married. And the father said, I have two problems with that. You're a career criminal and you're a pedophile and he's like, and my daughter looks and acts a lot younger than she is. And so this girl who is the same age as him is on camera and she completely, if you, if you said she's 16 or 15, you'd be like, sure.

And she was like in her mid 20s. Holy shit. So it's, there was some part that got confusing where it was like he also tried to date her younger sister and it was a thing. So this guy, and of course it turns out that later in the documentary, it turns out that he was molested as a child, very young, terribly, and for most of his life. So he had, he was adopted this father that they show a couple pictures of is one of the most disturbing looking individuals, like always right behind him, kind of creepy.

Oh my, how did I not see this documentary? It's pretty good. I mean, the thing is by the time you go to the part where they're talking about what life was like for these two dudes that did this home invasion, you're like, oh, I don't care. Yeah, I don't care. These are monsters. Well, not a lot, hopefully, but, and they don't become monsters.

Exactly. The only thing though is it is interesting because when something like this happens over and over, people go, who could do this? Who, how do you do something? I don't understand. How could you do this? How could you do this? And most people just go from that question to kill them.

Just kill them. Don't, why even give them a trial? It's that mentality, which we all, because it's so hard to comprehend. It's just like this compounded abuse that's just generations long, probably, because the guy who abused them was abused, too. And I mean, it's bad, all right. But it's interesting. Sorry.

No, no, no. Because that's, that's a thing with pedophiles is often times that's where it's coming from as it happens to them. But it's just, it puts a very strange light on an already very upsetting case. So they go home from this grocery store, the mom and daughter go home. This guy follows them home and goes and sees where they live. He had just, he was living in a halfway house or he had just gotten out of a halfway house. He was just purled.

And so is his friend, Stephen Hayes, who is considerably older and also has a very long, both of them have crazy long criminal records. Both are like burglars or whatever. This guy, and when they talked about Josh Kamasarjewski, they actually say he had a photographic memory. He was incredibly intelligent. He was an incredibly talented artist. And they start showing these illustrations that he did.

And they look somewhat, they reminded me immediately of the pictures in Silence of the Lambs when Dr. Lecter has those hand drawn pictures of like Italy, you know, that basically drawn his own pictures. So he, from memory, it's the exact same thing where this guy has these illustrations that are like so insanely detailed and beautiful and amazing. So and he had, you know, so he's a, he's a smart person, but very cunning and very sociopathic. And so was the other guy, Stephen Hayes, two of his brothers in this documentary talking about him, how he was a monster from their childhood.

It was like burning their hands on stoves, like nightmare older brother shit that they had to live with. So of course, in the end of this, when these two guys get caught, they tell the exact opposite stories of it was this guy's idea. And so it's very interesting because one guy looks like something out of a movie of a bad guy and the other guy looks like like a young pot dealer that would live in San Diego. But the truth of it is they think that it's the young guy that was the mastermind beyond it.

The artist, the smarter guy. Yeah. Sure. So anyway, those two meet up at a bar and they talk about their plan and how they're going to go rob this house. And at 3am, they go up to the house and when they walk up, they see that Dr. William Pettit is sleeping on the screen and porch on the front. And so Josh goes and grabs a baseball bat from the front lawn that they passed on their

way and takes it and starts beating this guy in the head. How do you go to a house at 3am in the morning? You're just asking for, you know, go in the middle of the day when no one's home. You want to find people there. No, they wanted this, the Josh guy, part of his thing was, they said, when he would go in burglar houses, he would go in different rooms, he would pick places like it would be like a state troopers house that he would be burgling. And he would, after he stole all the things he wanted to steal, he would stand and listen

to people breathing. Holy shit. Uh-huh. And then also the guy that was talking about him, I think it was probably one of his old defense lawyers said that he could remember every single, every single thing he stole, where it was, where the like item, if he took a wallet out of a pair of pants, it was hanging on the back of the chair, like he had a photographic memory. Where to?

Yes. So that part of the joy of it was the fact that he knew that family was home. At least they know that for, that was his pattern in the past. So they beat the father in the head, tie him up and put him down in the basement and tie his wrists and ankles to a pole in the basement. He's got, he's, he's had a split down the front and then there's like three huge gashes in the back. Oh honey.

So he's down in the basement, they have him shut down there. And they ran, they tie up the mother and both daughters and each of their respective rooms, tie them hands and feet to the bed, put pillowcases over their head and shut the doors of all those rooms. Then they ransacked the whole house. And by the time they're done looking through everything, they're not happy with their hall. They didn't get enough. And they find a Bank of America bank book and they see that the amount in the bank is like

over 15 grand or it's a bunch. And so they're like, here's what we're going to do when it's 9am and that bank opens, you're going in there, you're taking out $15,000 and you're bringing it back here to us and then we will leave you alone. So at 9am, this woman goes into her bank, goes up to the teller, says, I'd liked her withdrawal $15,000. And as they're doing their business, she says that I'm doing this against my will. People broke into our house last night.

The guy drove me here. He's in the parking lot outside right now. He has my family back at the house, like his partner has the family back at the house. She actually was quoted, the teller said that she said, they're mostly nice. I think they just need this money. And she's like, but you need to tell the police because, you know, I was, I was told to come in here and not say anything. And so like, please handle this.

And so the teller, there's a woman in this documentary who was in the bank when all this happened. And she said she saw the bank manager run from the teller's little depot into her office and shut the door and start making the phone call. So it happened like immediately. And then Jennifer Pettit got her money and left the bank. So she didn't wait around or anything because surely she was probably on like a timeline or something.

So Stephen Hayes is in the car waiting for her outside. The other guy's back at home. So they, they find a video footage, gas station video surveillance that Hayes had bought $10 worth of gas from two gas cans that he'd gotten from the Pettit home before they went to the bank. So they know it's premeditated murder. So when they get back, oh my God, does she know they have gas, extra gas? I don't know.

No, cause she's tied up in the room. So I think they're doing all that business themselves. So when, so this is where the story is split because Josh has one story and Stephen has the other. But Stephen's story is he gets back from the bank with Mrs. Pettit and he thinks they're going to take this money. He's picking him up and they're leaving. When he walks in, Josh says, I, I have left DNA in one of the children.

We have to burn this house down. We have to kill them and burn this house down. Holy shit. And that's when Stephen's like, I was not in this, that in, according to him, he, he was like, this is crazy. Then he looks outside and sees that from the moment that bank teller got on the phone with 911, like it was minutes later, they say like three to five minutes later, cops were outside of this house.

So they look outside, Stephen sees that there's cops outside, which, you know, she had promised him, he would not call the cops and he goes crazy, start strangling her. The mom. Oh no, I don't like that. It's bad. He strangles her, rapes her after he strangles her. Oh my fucking God. Okay, it's like a week away.

It's like a week away from fourth of July, fourth of July, past a week ago, my fucking neighbors are still, this has been happening all week. They've been letting off fucking fireworks. That was the worst time that could have happened. It was so loud. And I saw a fucking, I saw the spark. I did too. And there was like a big flash.

Wow. My heart. Do you want to shut that since now there's, um, wow. Fuck's sake. We're trying. Fucking hell. We're trying to talk about murder. Um, what the, oh my God, that's hilarious.

So okay. Can't wait to hear that. Um, that's like, so many people have their headphones in right now and got so freaked out when that happened. I wonder. Yeah. Cause it was, that was crazy loud. And we both freaked, we all freaked out.

You know what? That was like our podcast version of, you know, in a movie when suddenly a car gets side, yeah, fucking T bone or they closed the, um, the, the medicine cabinet and there's someone. Yeah. We just, it was like, we put that into our own scary, scary podcast that was scary enough as it was. Guys, don't be mad at us cause we're as upset as you are.

We are. It's not more. Now here come the cops. Did you hear, could you hear that? Um, okay. So, uh, okay. So Stephen Hayes has just strangled and raped the mother. Um, so it turns out while they were at the bank, uh, he, Josh had gone upstairs and raped

the 11 year old. The one who he thought looked like his ex-girlfriend. Uh, yes. But she was 11, there was a 17 year old daughter that no, nobody went into her room ever after. So it's super crazy. And when you hear his confession on tape, it's super disgusting because he act, he is using so many euphemisms and kind of trying to talk like they chatted and they were talking about school and I brought her a glass of water.

Like it's all very sweet borderline romantic in his mind. It's super gross. Um, so then they pour gas over both girls. No, no, no. Still alive. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then throughout the entire house, light the house on fire and then run out the front door, get into the pettits car, drive one block away, get pulled over and arrested.

So the entire time, now in the, in the aftermath, when they made announcements, the mayor or the city, you know, councilmen or whoever were like, and we'd like to thank the police and fire did a great job and all this stuff. Well, it turned out from when they finally, because they had like kind of redacted all of this information, they weren't, there was a gag order on the whole story. They like the press couldn't report on it on any details. They didn't know any details about it. And then they finally get like the phone reports and the 911 calls and everything.

And they had a perimeter, they were setting up a perimeter five minutes after the 911 call came in from the bank and they were all just sitting outside in that perimeter. They had no one had called on the phone. No one had knocked on the door. No one had even approached the house in any way. They heard Mrs. Pettit screaming and nobody went up. They, um, the house caught on fire and they still didn't do anything. So basically in the amount of time between when they went to the bank and came back is

when all of the major crimes happened and the police were just sitting outside, not taking action, which, you know, it's, this is a town that was like 25,000 people. So again, and there were some people that argued the, that this is a small town, but this is a small town in terms of police handling major crimes. So they had basically no idea what to do and just set up a perimeter and waited and didn't do anything. So that like those, those God damn it, that was, that sounded like an actual firework. Yeah.

You could, I just saw like Disneyland thing out there. Yeah. Except this is fucking Los Feliz. Yeah. Fucking Disneyland. And fireworks are illegal in the military and in addition, and it's been happening pretty much every night since 4th of July. I mean, it's, isn't it's like July 10th now?

It's like July 10th right now. It's six days later. Guys, anyway, to wrap it up, when Dr. Pettit escaped the basement, he, it was basically right around the same time as the house was lit on fire. He was like smelled the smoke and whatever, and so he with his, I'm, I'm looking at fireworks over your shoulder. I'm moving. I'm fucking moving.

Um, so Dr. Pettit runs up the back stairs, his feet are still bound. He's like hopping with a bloody face across to his neighbors and there's like a little forest in between his house and the neighbor's house and he sees the cops hiding behind trees and is screaming help my family, save my family as he's running over to the neighbor's house. And they're just keeping their positions. So all of that part, they like effectively swept that part under the rug and the family kept asking questions and like it was like, if there's a gag order, we can't tell you anything and it wasn't until the case happened that they found out all this horrible shit

of all the really hideous details of what happened. And then they also, um, Joshua was diary was, um, put into evidence and, um, basically after they got arrested, they both turned on each other, said it was the other person's idea. Um, and it's really hard to pull apart because even in this documentary, like you can see how Josh could be the mastermind, but you could also see how Stephen Hayes could. I mean, this idea, like when his lawyer was trying to tell that story of like, oh, we saw the cops and that he felt very betrayed and that's why he's straight and raped Mrs.

Pett. It's like, yeah, I don't think so. No, people don't strangle and rape people when they feel betrayed as a whole. I mean, they say it's like explosive anger reaction or whatever, but it's like, I don't know. I feel like they probably were planning on doing that anyway. Yeah. Um, so anyway, they're convicted of the murders and their sentence to death.

Uh, in 2010, um, uh, well, that was Stephen, Stephen Hayes was convicted in 20, 20, 10. Um, Joshua Kamasaryevsky, uh, was convicted in 2011 and sentenced to death in 2012. And in August, 2015, the state of Connecticut abolished the death penalty. So now Hayes and, uh, Kamasaryevsky are had both of their death sentences commuted and now they're serving life sentences. What do you think? Who do you think was the mastermind? Um, you know, it seems to me that it's the younger guy.

It seems to me that it's the, the Joshua Kamasaryevsky guy because someone who raped the 11 year old, he's the one that had this kind of plan. Yeah. And I think he's the one that like the other guy was a burglar and kind of on drugs and stuff. I think that guy was a career criminal in that, in that way. But I think Joshua had some really, really deep, serious emotional problems. Well, when you think of like, Hey, when you think of someone saying, Hey, I found this

house that's perfect for us to break into, like one of them knows who's in that house and what's going on. Yes. The other one might not. And so it seems that he had an ulterior motive for sure. And the other guy didn't at first, right? He just want to make some easy money or like just thought it was like they're, they're out of jail.

They're out of a halfway house. They need jobs. You can't get a job as the next con very easily. Yeah. You know, they're just trying to get back to it. And also that guy, Joshua was kicked out of the army, which is always a bad sign. Um, they don't, they didn't go into any of the details of that though. Anyway, the treasure murders.

It's an old HBO documentary. So I found it on HBO now or go or something on my Apple TV, um, but it's really interesting and really it just fucked with everyone. It's they considered the worst crime in Connecticut history. Just poor little girls and it fucked with everybody because it was home invasion. So it was just like your utopian life can be invaded by two criminals who are, you know, it's almost like there's on one hand you have like a burglary you have, you're not home. Home comes in and steals your shit, but someone who's bold enough to do a home invasion robbery.

That scares the shit out of me. The person who would be willing to do that. Yes. Is has no, has no, what? Well part of the enjoyment, at least they know for a fact that Joshua had was the fear that he liked the fear he put into people, um, because, and he actually wrote a bunch of stuff about it in his diary that was on this thing that was just basically like that's he feels that scared and freaked out and wants to scream inside all the time.

And so it makes him feel better to see people torture like that, which is when you're the one whose people are a fear, then you're not. Yeah. Holy shit. It's deep. It's dark. And yeah, I'm staying home from now on for the rest of my life, but then what if there's a home invasion robbery?

Well, and also that's where all the fireworks are. So home is where the fireworks are, you know? Oh man. Yeah. Elvis is hiding under the bed right now, so we can't end the show until he comes out. My friend Sean, who asked me if I was going to do this, uh, the one that's from Cheshire, Connecticut. So when he watched this documentary, he kept talking about how freaked out he was because

it was his, he goes, that's my bank. I've been to that bank so many times, like this was his hometown murder. And he was just like, he said watching this documentary was just like, that's his town. Oh, that's scary. Yeah. Um, should we do a hometown murder? Yeah. Okay.

Before we end, let me, let's see, let me find one. Tell me about, tell me about your week. No. Oh, we're going to be at Comic-Con, except you're not. Right. I'm going to be at Comic-Con, um, Therald Audio is having a Comic-Con panel, so everyone should come to that on Thursday. Okay.

What's the date? Thursday? What? I don't know. I don't know. It'll be on our Instagram. Everyone should come to that. Okay.

Bye. I think it's the 17th? Uh, no, it's, uh, sorry. I'm jumping in. It's the 21st. There you go. 21st. We're on it.

And it's Dan Harmon's panel. Okay. So this guy, Jason, sent us a hometown murder. Um, I'm from a small town in Alabama, about 15 miles north of Birmingham called Garden Dale, sleepy suburb, not much going on in 1994, I was a senior in senior year of high school. Uh, I went to a local punk rock show put on by DIY venue, roughly 10 miles from town, tiny community center that would put on local shows on Saturday and then would have local

church meeting on Sunday, typical crowd of underage kids, just trying to find something to do. Um, there was a few local bands and a touring act, blah, blah, blah, punk in the night, 94 around 60 teens, small space. I remember during the show hearing murmurs about a kid walking around the show about him being crazy. And it wasn't until I saw it that I got freaked out. Two years previous, a kid moved into town from a neighboring area.

I met him because we rode the same bus. Um, we hit it off as bus friends. Um, and 94 Kenny and three of his friends were out drinking and driving around looking for something to do. They were driving up the interstate when they happened upon a hitchhiker, Vicki Lynn, um, DeBlo, I think is DeBlo. They thought it'd be fun to pick her up and see what they could get into. Oh dear.

I don't want to read this. They had her fingers towards the end of what happened to her. They cut off her fingers and you're not going to do the middle part. Nope. And the finger is what the boy was showing off at that DIY show. They said they murdered this girl. They took her teeth and DNA. I mean, teeth, come on, they took her teeth and her fingers so she couldn't be identified

and this kid is showing it off at the show. At first I thought it wasn't real. And then someone else told me it was probably dug up from a recent burial, which still freaked me out. It wasn't until a few days later did I find out that it actually was real seems he had been showing off the finger around town and bragging about it needless to say the police quickly found out all the boys were charged and convicted of murder. They all got the death penalty.

But a few years later, three of the boys who were 17 at the time had their death sentences commuted to life. The fourth boy who had just turned 18, no such luck for him as far as I know. They're all still locked up for sake. Was the middle part that they all raped her? I think they just like killed her in a really brutal, fucked up way that I don't want to share. Jesus.

Well, can you imagine like what why am I asking for hometown murders and reading them? No, no, no, no, no. I I respect your if you need to make the call on the editing that it's too much. It just feels I don't I'm not this isn't this guy's fault. This is the story. I'm just saying like me reading it feels a little like egregious, which is a little like indulgent. And like this four girl who went through enough doesn't need to be indulged.

Like you can find it online and doesn't need to be indulged in me like reading the gruesome details of her poor murder. Mm hmm. Right? Sure. It's whatever you feel like doing. I know. You know why?

Why? This is our. This is our world. All right, girl. This is our fucking firecracker world. Elvis. Wow. Elvis doesn't want to cook.

Cookie. I bet he does. All right. You guys go to Instagram. My favorite murder. Twitter is my favorite murder. We have our Facebook group, of course, we're going to be at the LA pod fest in September. So come to that.

There's tons of really good people that are going to be really fun. Thank you guys for listening. We really love this podcast and we appreciate that you guys listen. It's super awesome times. And you know what? Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Elvis, want cookie?

Want cookie? Want cookie? All right. Thanks guys. Bye. Bye. Thank you guys so much for watching.