My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 260 - Unwashed & Unabashed

Episode Date: February 4, 2021

On this week’s episode, Karen and Georgia cover the murder of Lana Clarkson by Phil Spector. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar. That's Karen Kilgera. And that's Mimi. And Mimi's on my lap because she started screaming right when we started. Mimi has something to say this week and I think we should just hear her out for once. Let's even get her to talk. Mimi. Mimi. Tusha. Oh, yeah. There she is. There she is. That cat. Loud with it. She says, Mimi you're the greatest. Fuck puppies. That's what she's saying.

Oh, I got to send you the video of the puppy just trying to play with Mimi. It's so cute. And did she eviscerate him emotionally? Completely. I bet. Emotionally and a good old wallop on the nose. I know. I know. How's it going? Good. Good. You got a good librarian, like sexy librarian look going today. Thank you. I'm trying to seduce you. I might as well say it. I didn't take a shower and I pulled my hair back in a tight bun. That's what gets me. That's what you know. I know. I mean business. You know that. That's my type. I know that's your favorite. Unwashed and unabashed. Guaranteed. Guaranteed to you. That's me in a nutshell. I think it was one of those days. Just one of those days. I keep cleaning out. I keep

piece by piece cleaning out my garage, which I'm very. You've been doing this for a while, so your garage must be. I basically took all the boxes that were moved from my other house. Like I think we were, I want to say we were on the road, but that can't be true. No, I think we were. So my house was boxed up and moved to the new house. And so Stephen's like, yes, I can confirm that happened to you. So yes, that's what happened. And so basically, my entire garage was just filled entirely filled with boxes. Yeah. So and I was fine with that, even though I was like, this is very symbolic. Don't just have a bunch of boxes of your old life downstairs that you're just letting sit there. Yeah. And also I let them sit there for like

over nine months. So I was like, you clearly don't need anything that's down there. Throw it all way. Yeah. Throw it all. But I did know there was a couple of things that I had to go through the boxes because there would be a couple of things where I'm like, Oh, thank God, I didn't throw this away. One of which was my clottering, which was in my family, all the girls got it's the Irish friendship ring where it's the two hands holding the heart. That's what it's called. Yeah, it's called the clottering. And all the girls in my family got them when they turned 16. And that we were doing it in the eighties before it got really trendy, whatever. But mine, I liked it first. Mine. I had lost it and found it a couple of times it broke. There's like a

whole drama behind it. And I'd finally found it again. So that was one of the I had to find that before through boxes away just entirely just throw boxes away. I mean, I wanted to because I was just like, it doesn't if I haven't missed it, then how important could it be Marie Kondo style? I wanted to be like that panic attack, but I am a hoarder. So that's why I mean, but don't you think we all are in that way where you think I was sending you pictures of like, I literally have folders from when I was a camp counselor. Like I remember I sent you that thing where it said, look and listen. And I was like, look at this. Like there, I have stuff like that where it's like, sure, it means a lot to me, but it isn't make or break. It isn't crucial. Maybe

it's just clothes to me because the amount of clothes I have in the difficulty I have giving them away is so and it's also I'm sure because as a kid, I only got hand me downs and now I'm like, and I'm going to collect all the clothes. Fuck you. You know, yes. So it's like, and I, yeah, I have a thing about clothes. Well, and I think sometimes I would there's some shirts I remember having and I would kill to have more now. I actually more I found my Pat Benatar concert shirt that I used to wear in the like late 90s. Yeah. It was just in one of those boxes where I was like, I thought you were gone. You know what Vince got me? You tell Vince you want something and he'll just casually go to his phone and you're like, I know you're getting it for me.

So he got me. So it's a dream, but I know he got me the acts of service and gifts are his love language. He got me the Jane's Addiction t-shirt I wore on my first day of high school with like my ripped shorts and my ripped fishnets, dog collars. I thought I was cool and I ditched the first day of high school to smoke because I was because I needed a cigarette. I was fiending, you know, that's a 14 year old. Yeah. So he got me the ritual Dela habitual Jane's Addiction shirt and it's nice. Yeah. Is that the one where it's kind of like a guy hanging up? It almost looks like crucifixionine. No, it's a lady, a very like beautiful, but like flower in her hair lady. Yeah. It's okay. Yeah. Exactly. I never, I didn't necessarily, I mean, I loved the hits. I will

say that. But Jane's Addiction was always the guys that I had a crush on like Jane's Addiction, like skater boys that had the posters up. Yeah. I just, they were so creepy to me and I knew that what their song Ted just admitted was about Ted Bundy. So I was like, you know, in the nineties as a 14 year old, it was very sexy and stuff. And now of course we're like, ew, fuck that shit. Well, but that's how it was back then. It really was. That was kind of the like, if you wanted to be dangerous and rock and roll. You hang out in graveyards and take edgy photos and graveyards. Pretend you like John Wayne Gacy's art. Yeah. It's garbage. It's simply garbage. And now that we know everybody else was painting it for him. That's one of my favorite reveals. Modern reveals.

It's like the other prisoners were painting it. And Johnny Depp's paying $70,000 for so hilarious. Oh, wait, before we go any further, have you heard and did you learn that the Dilatov past, the Dilatov past mystery has been solved? Yeah. Allegedly solved. Most, most likely solved. Definitely solved, probably. Yeah. I didn't read the article. I was just, no matter what you said, I was going to devil's advocate the other direction. But like, it's not, it's not true. And I just did it for you. But did you read the thing? Is it, it's an avalanche, right? Yeah. It's really interesting. Yeah. The guy who basically solved it was showed that an avalanche was possible because there were all of these things of like, well, everything was still

standing. So it was like kind of a mini avalanche in a way or some light avalanche. I don't know. And like the hill low, it was a short avalanche. Right. Short. That's the word, which doesn't make any fucking sense to me. I made it up. Oh, I think that was true. Is that what they called it? It was a nice short avalanche. Something like a small short avalanche. Shallow. Shallow. Something. One of these words. Yeah. And then they all, you know, escaped, crawled away and died from various, you know, mostly hypothermia. It's just so sad. And it was like kind of obvious and still so tragic and like such a crazy mystery for so long. And that's it. But does that explain, is the parts where weren't their tongues missing and

things like that? And was that because they were just left to the left to nature? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's kind of obvious. And I think when I covered it, I think that's the conclusion we came to. But it was, you know, it was a cool mystery to unravel. So I think that's just what happened. But I think it's a pretty basic straightforward. I still think anything's possible. But at the same time, aliens, you know, I just want to say they're out there. I don't know if you watch Ancient Aliens, but my mom does. And she, I sure do, insists. As Ancient Aliens theorists suggest, it's a lot of people have pointed this out to us,

which I kind of knew anyway, because it's incredibly racist and ridiculous, where they're basically showing ancient cultures and going, there's no way they could have done this. Or it's like, why? It doesn't make sense. Because they people have been doing that kind of stuff for a hell of a long time. Have you? And then you just point over to Stonehenge. Did you ever see Stonehenge? It's super old. And then did you see the one, the thing about like, you know, what's it called Island with the big stone? Easter Island. And they showed these just people today, moving these huge blocks and how they would have done it, which is rope. And that's it, you know, in manpower. And it's like, it's not that hard.

We don't actually need aliens. And at the same time, we're probably aliens to begin with. So yes, aliens did it. But listen, nothing is real. It's all fucking fake. Here's what I like about the Easter Island story is that one of the theories, because I've seen the rope thing, and there's another one, which is that they cut down all the trees on the island, and they made almost like a roller system so that they could get them down to the coastline or down to where they were. And basically, the king or, you know, whoever was in charge, sorry, I don't know, it King might not be the right term, but whoever it was that was like, it's my it's my decision. Yeah, they kept demanding more and more of these statues.

And they cut down every tree practically on the island so that they have them and then basically made it so that the life was like uninhabitable. They didn't have good nature stuff going on on the island. They did it to themselves. And this is why we need to have and we did join the Geneva Convention. Is that it? This is why the Lorax is one of the more important books that Dr. Seuss ever wrote. I'm reading the the Dow of poo of Winnie the Pooh. Yeah. It's supposed to be epic. Oh, can I do a corrections corner? Sure. I'm correct. You mean about about the conversation we just absolutely the correction. Please edit all of that out. Okay, so it's not a correction more of like a clarification that I when I talked last week about emotional support dogs, I kind of

overlapped it with service dogs, which I want to be clear that service dogs are trained to perform functions for an owner that has that needs the help and emotional support animals are just a companion of the owner and they're not allowed on flights anymore. Oh, really? Yeah, or like they can't come on for free or whatever like that, you know, it has to it's not allowed. But on Instagram, Riley Scott 413 made it clear saying great news. Emotional support dogs are allowed inside Cracker Barrel. And then said when I was a waitress there, we had a guy who would put his dog in a chair across from him and order him chicken and dumplings. Oh, I know. Who's the more who's emotional support dogging who and that's chicken and dumplings. I do it for

everybody. So that would be yeah, that's amazing. Well, yeah, that's that's actually very good. Just that's discernment is important because service dogs are just like heroes. I will help you with your epilepsy. I will know when a seizure is coming on. I can guide you across the street if you're visually impaired or whatever. I can bring you a beer when you can't get up to open the fridge because of your arthritis or whatever. Yeah, sure. You know, so I've seen that one. I've seen that video. Oh, God, how the dog that go get goes and gets the beer on the refrigerator. Epic. Here's a great story from the New York Post that the Brooklyn DA Eric Gonzalez dismisses 262 and I'm quoting prostitution related warrants stemming from chart prostitution charges which

his office no longer prosecutes and I'm quoting from New York Post obviously we say sex workers and they stretch back to 2012. However, Gonzalez says that there are 850 additional warrants that were issued between the 1970s and 2011 arising from prostitution charges which will be vacated in the near future. Isn't that amazing? And they're saying that the Brooklyn DA does not pursue cases against people arrested for sex work but instead refers them to services. And they need to be offered assistance not criminally prosecuted and the state legislature is moving to expunge all 25,000 plus prostitution related convictions in Brooklyn that date back to 1975 saying like we want to make sure that instead of criminal penalties and jails we're

providing health care mental health care services to get them into giving them better options and also for health care and generations of young people's lives are being destroyed when we could be helping them. That's from Senator Liz Krueger who's working on introducing the new legislation. Incredible news. That's great. That's New York State. That's the Brooklyn district attorney Eric Gonzalez. Nice. So that's in Brooklyn. Which is epic and historic and a step in the right motherfucking direction. Yeah. Let's do that all over the goddamn country. Yeah for real. Imagine services. Let's get back to some services for human beings. I mean even if it's like you want to stay working in sex work which is totally acceptable at least

have some you know means of help or you know and they say of course that a lot of sex workers who experience abuse won't report it because they know they're going to get prosecuted which is such a huge issue. Good news all around. A wonderful feel good story. Right. A feel good story from the New York Post. Hey who knew. Hey. Anything's possible. One of my favorite late night scrolls. They just have some really wacky articles. It's always fun. I finished Bridgerton thanks to you. What'd you think? Did you. I hate watched it for a couple seasons. Episodes. Huh. Episodes. Episodes. That's right. Time again. Wait you have secret seasons. Oh yeah didn't I tell you. Time isn't linear so I hopped forward to season eight. Wow. Unbelievable.

This is an ancient alien situation. Yeah. I watched it because you said that there was going to be some hot raunchy Victorian sex so I stuck with it and you weren't wrong. And then I found myself enjoying it so I kept watching it and then I gasped out loud at the very ending and text you all excited about it. So I definitely recommend it. It's like a good fun distraction watch. Right. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. But it's not a family watch. Absolutely not. Do not. No children. No parents in the room with you. No. Absolutely not. There is a plot line in this show that is to me an old prude from the eighties shocking that it's the plot line. Oh. See. I must not be a prude. That's a spoiler alert. So you have to leave that out.

Yeah. Yeah. Please take that out. Okay. Yeah. Like the whole thing but in like a Jane Austin setting is I was I kept going it's got to be me. I'm I'm I think I'm hearing this wrong. Literally looked it up on my phone because I was like this can't actually be the plot. Okay. But people who read the book already knew and that was in the book because the book is like a modern retelling of one of those kind of stories. I thought it was like I just thought it was some old that Shonda Rhimes was just bringing back some old story I'd never heard before. Shonda Rhimes bringing Grey's Anatomy love into the fucking past man. Yeah. Yeah. And our lovely Claire from Dairy Girls. Oh. She kills it. Just so happy to see her anytime. A delight truly.

Nicola. Colin. Nicola. Nicola Coughlin. Nicola Coughlin. Yeah. She's great. All right. Yeah. I recommend that if you need an escape. It was helpful in my sanity and keeping it recently. If you need if you need a private escape. I have one. I have a recommendation that came. I made a I wrote a tweet the other night and in the tweet jokingly referenced the witcher or witcher might just be plain witcher. But that's the Henry Cavill series that's kind of like I don't know with spooky D&D whatever fantasy almost. But I watched it and do enjoy it. But my friend Alex Reed who's my old friend from stand up comedy in San Francisco but he's also a very accomplished TV writer himself. And he wrote if you like witcher you will love Britannia.

And so I and I believe it's on Netflix. And I started watching it and it is so good. It's basically Britannia Britannia Britannia. It's Britannica. It's about it's just a shot of a bunch of encyclopedias. It's very soothing. No Britannia. It's about the Romans invading Britannia and the Celts and the Druids live there. And the Druids are this fascinating clan of people that used to live in England in the English territories whatever they were called. And they were kind of like witchy. But they're it's real. But they were like they used to they were said to have had telekinesis. They did magic. They a lot of their magic was based in oak trees. It's this whole I started reading about them because I was so fascinated because it's actually

real. But basically the Romans came in and got rid of them all. And so they were kind of like, you know, the magic people. It's a really good series as Lord of the Ring vibes. That's what I'm getting. It's like Lord of the Ring for real, though, because it's it's historically based. All right. Not perhaps not exactly accurate, but based. Some liberties are taken. It's good. All right. So what's that called Britannia Britannia on Netflix. I have something to tell you that I've been really excited to tell you about. You know how I told you about oh shit. What's even what was the Instagram and cottagecore cottagecore. So remember I told you about cottagecore, all the like darling twee stuff and beekeeping that I was super into. Well, now I found out recently

that, you know, there's cleaning that it was a scam. No, it was a pyramid scheme. It's real. And I put $10,000 into it and I feel like I'm going to get my return. I bought all these these docks in cottagecore and miniature and dollhouses and I'm really feeling good about it. All right. Great. And if you want to join, you can be in my pyramid. Anyway, okay. There are cleaning influencers like in I found out that there are people who like have our specialty cleaners of like house cleaning. There's this one called it's AMA ROS cleaning and she's like an influencer. It's like thousands and thousands of followers and like shows you her favorite like scrub daddy and here's how to clean this and here's the best

way to vacuum this. And this is my favorite this and this is my favorite cleaning thing of that. And I am obsessed and it's addictive. Well, you know, it's funny that it's funny you mentioned that because when I at Christmas time, when I went to make a bake a turkey breast for the first time, right? I went and looked at my oven and it wasn't very clean and I was like, I should clean this, but I don't know how, you know, how a lot of times you can switch it on your oven is like self cleaning or I'm like, I don't trust that. And it takes like a full day or whatever. And so I looked up, I basically looked up my kind of oven and how to clean it like quickly and easily. And there was a woman who was just like, it's you need, you know,

baking soda, white vinegar, this and this. Yep. And she and it really worked. It was like, it took me 20 minutes. Well, there are people like, you know, there's like, there's like workout influencers. What's it called? When you work, you know, and now, yeah, and there's cleaning influencers. I love it. Have you cleaned anything? Have you been influenced in any way by them? I have. I bought all the products she told me to get. And I've been binging power washing videos too. So that's like, that is one of my favorite things. Have you ever seen the ones in the buildings in New York City when they're doing it in Manhattan? And it's just guys up on like what look like a window washing thingy, but instead they're power washing the

front of a building. So it's going from dark gray to beautiful like marble white. Yes. The best. I watched one of like the tenant had lived in this apartment for 40 years and smoked three packs a day. And they went in there with a power washer and the walls were fucking yellow. Yeah. Like yellow and they just power washed it. And it was like, oh, even the ceiling was just gross. Loved it. So good. And they, they cleaned it all up. They fucking power washed. I mean, they're really, everybody loves a before and after, but with something like that where you don't have to actually do the hard work of cleaning, but you still get the satisfaction of the, of the before and after. There's nothing better. Nothing. It's so good. Because my,

hopefully my life will never get to the point where I'll have to have a satisfying power washing situation. So I'll just watch other people's. You don't know. Because indoor smoking is, it can be pretty successful. Can you imagine sitting in a New York apartment? So it's what is it cost? Four grand a month or some shit? Like so tiny. So like it's your, it's like a smoke box. Yes. I used to do, you know what I'm saying? Can you imagine? I did it when I, when I lived there, like, you know, it was early 2010s, right? It was probably 2010 or 2011. I moved there for a job. I knew four people. So on the weekends, I would just pull this stool because it was this tiny kitchen. I would put a pot of water on the stove and just keep it at a low boil. So there was

just moisture in the air. And then I went, and then the, I had the window open and I wear a total coat because it was, you had the window cracked problem. Like that's enough window cracked. And then I would just smoke and blow it out the window and keep it so that like, if any smoke went in the air, the moisture would just bring it back. So it wouldn't like get anything dirty. I've never heard of that. Yeah. And then I just fuck it. I just trolled Facebook. I couldn't get off Facebook. I was just my self-rolls. That's right. Yeah. You know what you are? You are a fucking cigarette influencer. You're giving us tips and tricks. You're rolling your own and you're going to show us how and all the tools you love to use or just like, if you can't roll them yourself,

here's what you do. And like, here's the filter I like to use sometimes. No filter. No filter. And then like, you got to crack your window this much. Otherwise it doesn't. So yeah, you're a cigarette influencer. And then a true cigarette influencer because then you can take a picture. You can find a picture of my old teeth and I had to get them professionally replaced with fake teeth. For a lot of money. Because my teeth became so yellow because smoking is disgusting and terrible for you and you shouldn't do it. That's right. But man, it can be satisfying when you're all alone in the world in New York City. Oh, contemplative cigarette of like, this is what I'm doing tonight. Fuck you. And that's actually, I've told this story a thousand times, but that's

when I got into podcasts, right? I would listen to Dave Anthony and Greg Barrett's podcast, Walking the Room. And it was like getting to hang out with my friends and not getting to talk and I loved it. It was the best. I love it. Oh, I have one more correction. Cole Escola from Search Party, who I mentioned last week and adoring them. But I called them he and and his pronouns are they them. So I just make sure I got that clear update, pronouns update everybody. And I want to make sure I respect that and clear it up. Hey, if you don't know, it's not about respect because you just didn't know. Right. So it's just an update. I think is an important sign of respect. Absolutely. Absolutely. Good. And a good thing just, I, it's, it's a, I'm working on

the habit of just trying to default today. Yes. Yes. But it's again, I'm from the 80s. So it's a, it's a slight adjustment. Yeah. But yeah, it's usually the, just your best bet. Totally. Totally. I was going to tell you about, oh, well, a couple, but if we're still doing TV shows, I just stumbled on, remember when I told you about, there was a British show called Not Safe for Work that I loved. Yeah. And I think I made you watch at least one episode. I'm not sure. It's really good if you haven't seen it, Not Safe for Work is great. But then I also, but I found this, this is basically like a deep cut because it's from, I think it started in 2011. And it's called Fresh Meat and it's these young and it's, it's called Fresh Meat. It's an old show where

all these people are young. It's an old show with young people. My two favorite things. And it's called Fresh Meat and they are all at uni and British of course. At university. Yeah. And they're all just roommates, you know, a rag tag group of roommates and I was binging it yesterday. And it's good stuff if anyone's looking for it. I'm doing those deep cut, the British show deep cuts. Did you, I hate to ask this because I feel like it's one of those things where like your friend recommended something. You're like, can you leave me alone about it? But did you watch the British Shameless? The original Shameless? Oh, yes. Remember, we were talking about it. You remember, you asked me what neighbor I would, or what person I would be. Yeah. And I was the

neighbor. Yes. The British Shameless is amazing. I mean, we're still obsessed with it. It's like, it's, it's this fucking best show I've ever seen. It's like one of my favorites. Now, did we discuss, I want to know if that dad character is dyeing his hair? Definitely. Or if he just, you think so? In the beginning, he looks like he has a wig, you were saying. Right. Which I agree. But it doesn't later. He must have been like, had a role, had a different role for something else and had to wear a wig. I do think he dyes it, but maybe like that's part of his character because his character is just a complete fuck up. Yeah. His character, yeah, is like kind of a young guy, but then is living a hard life.

So it makes sense that he would have like kind of scraggly beard and scraggly face and then young guy hair. Yeah. He's trying to look hip. It's a good job. I love it. And the young actor who soaked James. Who's so hot. James McAvoy. Yes. Thank you, Steven. Good job, Steven. He's Steven. Yes. His place, his name is Steven in it. Is it? Yeah. But he, you know, he ends up, he and Fiona, the older. Spoiler. No, spoiler. In real life, got married and had a kid. They fell in love on the set of Shameless and got married and had a kid and are now divorced. That's okay. Spoiler. Love story. Love it. Love love stories. Loving it. Should we do exactly right news? Well, I have one more recommendation. Oh, please. Sorry. It's just, no, it's just,

it's a podcast. I was, I don't know what, what I was doing, but I was just kind of like going randomly through podcasts. And it was like the ones that were related to the ones I'd already listened to. Yeah, I like that. And I stumbled upon a podcast that's like a kind of self-helpy. Oh, you sent it to me and I listened to it. Yes. Yeah. It's called Unfuck Your Brain, but it's not by the person who authored the book because I thought it would be and it's not. Yeah. And she, and it seems like the book came out and this podcast came out the same year. So it might totally be things, a thing that very much does happen in the world, which is just, it's a coincidence, but this one is a series by, or sorry, this is a podcast by the host is a woman named Kara

Lowentheal. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. And it, it started as a podcast, like an advice podcast for lawyers. Wow. Yeah. Because that's what she was. But then as it goes, she basically becomes like a life coach and it's basically just kind of like good advice on a, a bevy of different things. If you're looking for, it's real short, like it's, I think each one is like a half an hour or less. Yeah. And it's, she is such a good like writer and conceptual. Yes. And it's like here is how you sent me the one of how to get confidence. And I listened to it 30 minutes. I was so surprised it was like over already, but it was like such great, simple advice on how to like start. It's, you know, it's a long process and it seems daunting and overwhelming

to fucking get confidence after a lifetime of not having it. But she makes it so straightforward and simple and explains your brain to you of why it's not working. Yeah. And it's, it's great. You're right. You're right. It was great. It's really cool. And I really think it's generous because she is a, she is a like life coach, a master life coach. And there's lots of life coaches that have podcasts that are basically giving it away for free as a way to say, and if you want more of this, then you can all coach you separately. So it's very cool. If you listen to it, then you have like next options. If you have like the money and the, but inclination. But if not, there's there, she has like four years of podcast episodes where you can go

through and find your topic. And it's just really, I find her very smart and very so good at giving advice. I was blown away. That's amazing. I love those kinds of podcasts. Yeah. That was great. Unfuck your brain with Cara Lowe and Theo. Yes. Of course. Cool. Because I, I had a couple of those moments as I was listening where I was just like, Oh, I could actually do this. Yeah. That's not, it's not conceptual in that way of like, you need to tell yourself that you're great where it's just like, right. I would fucking do that. Like it doesn't work. Well, the thing about us is that I feel like, and people with low self-esteem is like, I don't think I deserve to like myself.

And I don't think I deserve confidence from myself or other people. And so it's not going to fucking work on me and fuck you for trying. Like that works for other people and not for me. Fuck you. But it's like, no, no, it's just your brain and your wires are kind of crossed. And the way you've been trying to get it from outside sources is just, it doesn't work for anyone, not because you're broken. Yeah. You know, and that idea of these are these thoughts that pass through our head. They're just that. They're just thoughts. And we can't just give our life over to these thoughts, ideas, feelings that just come through. We have to be more in charge. And we have to be basically kind of like right there with the thoughts and then go, thank you for the warning. Thank you for

the worry. Thank you for the, you know, stamping your feet. We're not going to do that this time. And like it's that idea. I just, you know, and I mean, like, that's also my therapist talking and a lot of other things, but, but Carl Lohanthiel puts it into very simple, listenable kind of like break it down thing. I was just really impressed. And it's like, it works for anyone. It's not, you don't have to be special and like fixed. But we're so special. But however. We're special broken. We're especially broken. We're especially special in our brokenness. Don't we all love to be especially broken? That's the best. That's the best way. Truly. I mean, I don't want to be boring broken. And that's like for fucking basics. And

I'm not special. And I'm fixable. High level. High level in my brokenness. Yep. You earn that leather jacket. You earn the cigarette when you're 14. Yeah. These knuckle tattoos, man. No, not everyone gets to have these. You have to have a permit when you go to the church. George's knuckles say special broken. I don't know how she fits it on. I got extra fingers because I'm especially broken. All right. That was a great record. Oh, I'm reading The Invention of Wings by Sue Monk Kidd. That's K-I-D-D. And she also wrote The Secret Life of Bees, which was unbelievably great. I love your bees. Love it. I do love bees. I highly recommend The Invention of Wings. Cool. Yeah. So check that out too. Okay. Now we do a little exactly

right news. There's some we have so many great and wonderful shows. We're just going to highlight a couple of them for you right now in case you haven't caught up to all your ER programming this week. Yeah. Yeah, guys. Let us walk you through it. I think we should start with I Saw What You Did. Let's do it. Which is our Radical Movie Review podcast. It's hosted by the two incredible women, Millie and Danielle. Millie is the programmer at the incredible Turner Classic Movies, TCM, which is like one of the coolest channels. And whenever Vince is like, wow, they have a double feature of this. I'm like, that's Millie. That's Millie. Like she has impeccable freaking taste. And Danielle knows so much about movies and she's hilarious. And they're great friends. I

saw what you did actually as a five star rating on iTunes, which is if you ask us is impossible, but apparently it's not. Well, this is we're talking criterion collection level podcasting over here. Hey, that's what's happening. Nice tie in. Yeah. And so they're doing a Black History Month special where they're focusing their discussions on black directors, actors and other artists in the film industry and examining the obviously year round importance of celebrating and amplifying black voices in the film community. And to kick that off, they're discussing two films, Ganja and Hess from 1973 and Losing Ground from 1982. So make sure you subscribe and listen to I Saw What You Did and follow them on I Saw Pod on Instagram and Twitter. And they'll tell you

what movies they're reviewing each week beforehand so you can watch those movies before or after you don't even need to fucking watch them honestly. Just to listen to this podcast. Because you can you'll get the discussion. Yeah. Also on Bananas, our Weird News podcast, Kurt and Scotty are doing basically a live show this weekend. This is very exciting. You can buy tickets for it's February 6th. It's coming. I literally don't know what day it is. I was about to say it's in a couple days and it could be the 15th. It could be the second. I have no fucking clue. By the way, before you get fucking angry in their Instagram feed, they're doing a live web show. It's not they're not going to be at fucking the Troubadour guys. No, no, no. It's

streaming. It's completely it's completely virtual. They're going to wear masks even though they're going to be super distanced. So go to www.bananaslive.com and go watch them do a live show. They're both seasoned performers. It's going to be amazing. Love that. Love that damn show. So entertaining. They're doing so good. They are so good. And then we have a crossover this week of two of our Exactly Right podcasts. So Kara Klink from That's Messed Up, our SVU podcast, is on I Said No Gifts Bridgers podcast. And so you should check both of those out. Yeah, that's going to be a delight. Yeah. That's a real nice combination. It is. I love those people. I love seeing them at parties, which is obviously talked about. Our main host criteria

for Exactly Right is do we like to hang out with them at parties? How long can you stand with them at a party? If it's over over 10 minutes, they get a show on the podcast. And just to just to slide this one in, Tenfold More Wicked is on their second season on Kate Winkler-Dawson's on her second season talking about serial killers Burke and Hare. Really fascinating. They have been at the top of Apple's true crime charts. The second season is going like gang busters. And my sister told me the other day that my cousin Stevie, who is like my older brother, got off the phone with her the other day because he loves this podcast so much that he wanted to stop talking to her so he could continue listening to that process. That is how you know. I love that.

And I said to my sister, I was like, that's like the opposite of him beating me up every day after school. That feels so good. We kind of had to talk about after school instead of him just beating me up. Now that we're adults, he can listen to my podcast. I love you, Stevie. And I want to reiterate, speaking of her being on the top of the true crime charts, is that please, please, please rate, review and subscribe. I know it's just this thing you hear on every podcast at the end of the episode, but it's the way that you get on the charts. And it's also the way they get ad sales, which is how these free podcasts that you listen to are able to get ads. It's the way they make money. It's important to us even though it's the biz, baby, be a part of the biz. If you love a

podcast, rate, review and subscribe, please and support. Also, if you love the podcast, my favorite murder, the one we're doing right now, we've got a piece of merch that has been sold out for so long, and it is back. It's the here's the thing mug. It says here's the thing. It's teal on the side. And then when you turn it up to sip out of it, it says, fuck everyone on the bottom. Yeah. So anytime you're in those zoom meetings and you're just having the worst time ever, you just take a sip of your coffee and show them what you really think it's subtle. And then we also have t-shirts and the koozies are so cute. I love them and they're all restocked at my favorite murder.com in the store and they're available. Yeah. So go get your here's the thing merch. It is it is back for you.

That's right. Yeah. Cool. Well, I'm going this week. I'm telling I'm telling you a story. I love to hear a story from you. Can I tell you a story Karen? Sit back and relax. I like to hear some tea. Put your hair up. Looking for a better cooking routine with meal planning, shopping and prepping handled. Hello Fresh has you covered. Hello Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. Hello Fresh meals are convenient, seasonal and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly. Why stop with just dinner? Now you can enjoy Hello Fresh's expanded menu of quick lunch solutions, weekend brunch, simple side dishes and amazing desserts. Karen January is going to be my month for Hello

Fresh. I am so sick of takeout. I miss cooking so much I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since like early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and Hello Fresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything. Everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong and on my new podcast Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday

on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton Serial Killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast Killer Psyche Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. All right, so this is in the news recently and

I realized I hadn't even considered ever doing it and I thought maybe now is a good time because of that. So this is the murder of Lana Clarkson by Phil Spector. Oh yeah, amazing. We've never done this. How have we never done it? Yeah, okay. Hopefully we've never. Yeah, I mean I'm so surprised like even at an LA live show doing it, but it just never crossed my mind. Okay, my sources are Patrick Prince for Goldmine Mag, CNN Wire, a Dominic Dunn article for Vanity Fair, Stephen A. Diamond article for Psychology Today, Karina Longsworth for LA Weekly, Bill Domaine for Mental Floss, Wikipedia of course, and then other Vanity Fair articles as well. Karina Longworth, you must remember this. Oh yes, totally. Oh my god. That's Karina getting her

bills paid. Good for her. Well, she also does a podcast. Right, review and subscribe so she can get more ads. Please support Karina Longworth. You must remember this. That's right. All right, so let's, we're going to delve into Phil Spector and who he was and what his life was like because it really just paints a picture of what ended up, what he ended up doing. With his hair. I mean, I have no explanation. Actually, I do have an explanation for that. Okay, yeah. Harvey Philip Spector is born in 1939 to a first-generation immigrant Jewish family and they live in the Bronx. The family first arrived from Ukraine in 1913 and it's highly possible that his parents are first cousins because there's lineage, lineage found of their grandfathers. They were found to

be very similar on their naturalization papers. So it's a little side note. In 1949, when Phil is just nine years old, his ironworker father who has just tons of debt takes his own life by carbon monoxide asphyxiation. Oh no. And nine years old. I mean, it's tragic. On his tombstone is inscribed Ben Spector, father, husband to know him was to love him. Phil's allegedly domineering mother moves the family from New York to Los Angeles in 1953 where she works as a seamstress. All right. So Phil goes to Fairfax High School where he was involved in a Jewish like boys club known as the Lockenvars, which I have known about since I was a kid because one such member is none other than Marty Hardstark. Marty was a Lockenbar? Marty was a Lockenbar. I had no idea Phil Spector was too

until Phil Spector died last week. And my dad forwarded this like chain email from a bunch of like old members. My dad called it a gang, but it was just a bunch of Jewish boys. It was a club. And they were all kind of talking about their memories of their friends. Phil Spector from high school. And my dad is still super close with those friends from his time. It's like they were very kind of supported each other. And partly because they grew up in a time when anti-Semitism was still rampant in LA. In the 1950s, the Fairfax was known as a quote Jewish high school. And in fact, the principal even taught modern Hebrew class. And some parents started taking their kids out of Fairfax because the high Jewish population made them uncomfortable. So LA, I mean, I've heard

stories from my grandparents and parents was very anti-Semitic at the time. I believe that it's just funny or like interesting now to think about that because of the way things are now. Like the idea of people taking their kids out of school because Jewish people went there. Totally. It's just kind of like, wait, what? But that's it's that thing of like over the years that kind of racism exposes itself to just be the weirdest, most baseless, stupid thing. Absolutely. But then it's just the more current like that's I think I've told you the story of when I got in trouble because I repeated a slur right against a Mexican student that I heard on the playground. And my aunt Jean like slammed on the brakes and was like, what, why would you ever say that? And I was like, oh,

I thought that's what somebody else said. I was like in second grade or something like that. And my mother gave me this fucking speech that night that was all about, don't you know that the way anybody that says that about Mexicans now, that's exactly what people were saying about your grandparents 50 years ago when they emigrated and were living in San Francisco when there were signs up that said, don't hire the Irish. Totally. Those people are your relatives. You might as well think of it in the same way. And that that kind that's racist. And that kind of like bias is that's who your people are. Like you can't do it because your people were those people. Yeah. And it was really eye opening and kind of thank fucking God. I made that mistake to learn that

lesson. Totally. And it's exactly the same. I mean, from second grade on, that's great. Also, just as a kid, and I know not that many kids like second graders listen to this, but just don't repeat shit other people say. Don't believe anything kids say. It's they're all fucking making shit up as they go along or repeating stuff. Stupid people say. Yeah, you got it. Yeah. Just don't just don't. Yeah. So I think that's why my my dad was so close with them and this this little group the lock and bars, which I just while you were sitting here out again on the phone with my dad and be like, how do you pronounce that again? So the reason I thought of doing the story is because, as I said, the Phil Spector email went around and my dad forwarded to me.

They were sharing old memories of their old club member Phil Spector. And one of the guys whose name is Robert remembered Phil Spector this way. I thought he was so friendly, a bit different, perhaps, but so talented and nice to everyone. We became friends and his mom would ask me to play the piano whenever I came over, which was often he was head cheerleader. And it wasn't hard to recognize he would be a musical success. He was a head cheerleader. Yeah. They also lived down the street from my dad, like where my grandma live. It's just wow. I didn't know him. It was he was a couple of years ahead of my dad. Okay. Yeah. Had cheerleaders a little bit of a left turn. It is. I didn't see that one coming. It is. But I think. Yeah.

I think it was more normal back then for men to be cheerleaders, wasn't it? Maybe. Could have been. Yeah. But head cheerleader. He beat out everybody. This is special. So Phil, and he was like this short and small and stature guy. So he probably didn't play a lot of sports, I would assume. So cheerleader. He hated his given name Harvey, which was he was previously known by. And he starts going by his middle name, Philip Phil, which he later has legally changed it, legally changed to. So he becomes obsessed with listening to music on AM radio. And it changes his life. He starts hanging around the music room at Fairfax, and he learns the guitar, and he performs in school talent shows. And he starts a band with three of his friends from

Fairfax, and they form a group called the teddy bears. So he starts hanging out at local recording studios trying to learn music production. And this guy, Stan Ross, who was an owner and producer of Gold Star Records in Hollywood, takes a shine to him and begins tutoring Phil Spector on music production. And so from 18th, no, from 1950 to 1984, Gold Star Studios is one of the most important studios in the world. They have artists like the Beach Boys and Richie Valens and Jimmy Hendrix and putting out like, you know, world history changing music. Yeah. The Who. And so, and just tons of recording artists perform there and record there. And I highly suggest the documentary The Wrecking Crew, which tells Gold Star's history. It's by filmmaker Denny Tedesco.

It's on Amazon. It's fucking awesome. The Wrecking Crew. Watch it. So Phil learns the business. And in 1958, the teddy bears signed to Aira's Door Records, where they get a deal to record two to three of Phil's songs. One of them being to know him is to love him, inspired by the inscription on his father's tombstone. And it goes to number one on the Billboard Hot 100 list and sells over a million copies. And in 1958, they perform on Dick Clark's American Bandstand, which was a huge accomplishment. Big deal. Yeah. And meanwhile, this is just an interesting side note. Phil's mother Bertha had encouraged Phil to learn stenography in the meantime. Gotta have a safety net. That's exactly why. So he had something to fall back on in case

the music thing didn't work out because, you know, mom's like, what are you fucking doing? Can you at least just get a degree, please? No one's letting you just go be in the teddy bears like that's gonna pay your mortgage because that ain't real. They performed on American Bandstand once, Phil. And so between 1957 and 1960, Phil Spector got a job as a part-time court stenographer at the court in downtown Los Angeles, where, among other cases, he worked the Lana Turner Cheryl Crane murder case that I covered at one of our live shows in LA, in which Lana's daughter Cheryl stabbed Lana's boyfriend, Johnny Stampinato, to death. And she was a teenager and she got off. So he was in that trial. He was the court

stenographer for that trial. That's insane. Isn't that random? And then he was offered the job of doing translation work as a UN interpreter for Fidel Castro. This is you're starting to talk out the movie Zellig. Like it's like this or Forrest Gump. He's like played by the piece of shit Woody Allen. Like it's they look alike in a weird way. Actually, Phil Spector met Castro twice in a hotel room, but ultimately turns down the most incredible job I've ever heard in my fucking life in order to continue his music career. So it's probably a big fuck you to his mom. The teddy bears break up so sadly in 1959. And after finding success producing a few records, as well as sitting in on us as a session musician, Phil found Phil is record records, so his own

record company with famed producer Lester Stills. So this is when Phil Spector like really finds his niche and he develops his trademark wall of sound. It's a production formula where I'm going to put this simply because I don't fucking get it. A mixture of all sorts of instruments are playing at the same time in unison with other instruments joining in layers, along with further layers of vocals. It's like this crescendo effect that you I mean, it's beautiful. But the secret is the echo chamber where the microphones from the studio play into a basement speakers, there's microphones, they bounce the sound back to the control room to be recorded on tape. That's how the wall of sound works. She shrugs. She explains, she explains,

unbelievably. I get it. Well, you know, the Motown Records, they ran a microphone up into the attic to get that same type of sound. Wow. Yeah, that makes sense. So that's the only reason I kind of get what you're talking about. And your musician. Yeah. Yes. And because when I record, well, it's all about the echo and the in the attic. I'd like to thank Mike Burns, my research writer for understanding what the fuck that meant and writing it in layman's terms. So, so Spectre said in 1964, quote, I was looking for a sound, a strong, a sound so strong that if the material was not the greatest, the sound would carry the record. Hey, it was a case of augmenting it all fit together like a jigsaw.

So you can hear that with the Beach Boys. Brian Wilson recorded a lot there as well. And Phil releases legendary songs where you can hear this unique style, including Be My Baby by the Ronettes, which is a legendary, legendary classic. Then he kissed me by the crystals. Another beautiful song. Put your headphones on, you guys. Put your noise canceling headphones on and listen to these songs. They're moving. And he signs the Righteous Brothers in 1965, releasing You've Lost That Love and Feeling, Unchained Melody and You're My Soul and Inspiration. And so like hit after hit that like defines the era. So this is why he's so famous when you look at these insane pictures of him in the courtroom and you're like, who is this fucking

good dude? Like he just changed his music. Yeah. So by now he's in his early 20s and he's one of the hottest and wealthiest record producers in the world. Can't get fame that you can't get famous and rich that young or you're. No, you cannot. No, you cannot. You are fucked. You got to go through some shit before you can appreciate some shit. Right? You got to go through some shit before you can buy all the Coke all the time because you and your wall of sound are going to get yourself into some trouble. That's right. By the time you're 30 and you're washed up. Good luck. So in 1966, Spectre signs his final act at Phyllis. It's P-H-I-L-L-E-S. Phyllis. Phyllis. The Phyllis? Are you talking about the Philadelphia Phyllis? No. It's his record company. His

final his final act is Ike and Tina Turner. And he considers River Deet, Mountain High, the best thing he's ever produced. And the fact that the song was initially snubbed by the American audience, he takes it super personally. And it kind of like changes something in him and made him resent the music industry completely. And he just is bitter and he retreats from the business and goes into a state of depression. Huh. After one thing that didn't go his way. Right. After 20 that did. Exactly. Cool. Cool. Cool. Sounds like a great state of mind. Sounds like he's got his shit together in his early 20s. He's doing probably doing a lot of meditating, a lot of chanting. Just really grounded sounds like he's just of the people.

He's Buddhist, I think. Sure. He's reading the Dow of Winnie the Pooh, for sure. So after failing to sell his record company to A&M Records in 1967, he becomes a total recluse. He rarely makes public appearances for a couple of years, except for playing a drug dealer in 1969's Easy Rider, which I didn't know. And playing himself in a cameo of I Dream of Genie. Perfect. I guess they were desperate for cameos at that point. But he does marry his dream girl, Veronica Bennett, who's Ronnie of the Ronettes, who Phil had discovered. So Phil had discovered her and the group and he helped make them famous with these hits and sensing the relationship was doomed due to Phil's erratic emotional behavior. Ronnie's mother turned to her daughter

after signing the wedding certificate and said, quote, I just signed your death certificate. Oh, no. Yeah. That's not what you did. Well, then watch me sign it. I don't know. That's not what you want to hear on your wedding day. Well, maybe it was like she felt like she had no choice and she was just like, you made me do this. Definitely. Definitely. You know how much daughters listen to their mother's advice? Also, that band was huge. Their songs were awesome. And I'm sure she was just like, this guy made me like he's, you know, that's what it's. So she wrote a memoir in 1990 called Be My Baby. And yeah, that's exactly it. She felt she owed him this. She owed him her life, you know, sure. And she actually, he was really controlling. And

it turns out John Lennon fell in love with her and offered for the Ronettes to go on tour with the Beatles. And she chose Phil Spector over that. So that's how devoted she was to him. Wow. So in Be My Baby, her memoir, she details how Phil Spector psychologically tortures her and purposely ruins her career by not allowing her to perform again. He's the monster. He puts a barbed wire around their house and they live in this mansion in Alhambra, California, which is right outside Pasadena, right? And he gets guard dogs for the yard. And it's all to keep Ronnie inside the castle, basically, they call it. If she's given permission to leave, Ronnie has to drive with a life-size inflatable

dummy of Phil Spector in the passenger seat. Okay. Are we going to talk about what drugs he was on? Because this is extreme. In later on, I will tell you about the poppers and what they do to him. Because Jesus Christ. I think he was also just this emotionally manipulative, psychotic guy. Like, I don't even know if drugs were part of it. I mean, I'm sure they were. I feel like back then, drugs where everyone did speed, you know? They did. And also, when barbed wire comes into a place, you know, like your Alhambra mansion. Right. Where no one goes. If you're like, here's what we need, barbed wire. And fucking guard dogs. But to keep you in, that's the creepiest part. It's like,

not even to keep people out. Yeah. That's so scary. Awful. Yeah. And there's more. It gets worse. It always does. It always fucking does. So inflatable dummy. If she's gone for more than 20 minutes, he calls the guards to like find her. Wow. She says, quote, I was never around people. He made sure of that. And he kept her isolated in the studio where her best friend who was her backup singer was like the only person she was allowed to hang out with who was none other than Cher. Really? What? Her backup singer. Right. I know. Wow. So the couple adopts a child in 1969. And then, okay, here's the fucking wackiest, wacky thing you've ever heard. As a Christmas gift in 1971, Phil surprises Ronnie by bringing home a set of five-year-old twins.

What? He adopted a set of five-year-old twins and was like, these are your kids. Purchased. Yeah. Well, adopted. I don't know. Okay. Probably. Yeah. Let's see that paper. Yeah. I want to see that car fax. That's right. Jesus. Did you say I want to see that car fax? Yeah. That was, I'm glad I didn't gloss over that because that was an excellent comment. Thank you. Of course, she feels like the gesture is to keep, it's just a bid to keep her captive in their marriage and that the children were used as like pawns to keep her there. Yeah. Ronnie goes so far as to purposely start abusing alcohol so she can leave to go to AA meetings. Oh. And she's like, there's nothing for me to do all day but drink. I have no, I'm not allowed to leave the house. I have no freedom.

I just start drinking. And also, oh my God. Phil puts a gold coffin with a see-through glass top in their basement and promises that he will kill her and display her body there if she tries to leave him. Oh my. So this man is an abusive fucking piece of shit. And very insecure. Yeah. Yeah. Jesus Christ. I mean, that's the least of the problems. Yeah. I'm insecure and I've literally done none of those things to my knowledge. Don't ask Vince about that though. To my knowledge. And then just like your Zoom camera slips slightly to the left. You're like, wait, Georgia, what is that? A mausoleum with Vince's name on it? Why did you get a fucking Doberman Pinscher? Jesus. Georgia, this wallpaper is so nice. Why is there so much barbed wire around the

top of it? Georgia, why? It's crazy. So many questions. No, this is like, we're making jokes. Yes. This is a nightmare. Like, we're, this is a, this is a nightmare castle of nightmares. Yes. This isn't a highly abusive relationship that is, we all know is impossible, feels impossible to escape from. Because it's, I mean, literally. Literally and physical. She deserves to be drink as much as she possibly can. Seriously. Jesus Christ. Seriously. And according to Ronnie, Phil said, before I let you go, you'll be dead. Terrifying. So he also takes away all of her shoes so she can't, it makes it harder for her to run away. And everyone knows in Alhambra, it's just like, that's far from anything fucking anywhere. This is just so extreme. Like, it's insane.

So when she finally does escape with the help of her mother in 1972, she has to do so barefoot. And also by sneaking out through the service entrance, like her and her mom studied the service entrance to see when it was like possible to run away. She recalls, quote, my whole survival is through my mom's strength. I tell other women, if you're in a bad relationship, you have to find one person to help you. Phil's abuse was mental, not physical, telling me I'll never be successful without him. And she says that it made me say one a bit. Can I just say this too? Yeah. Meanwhile, Ronnie Spector is one of the most beautiful women. Her voice is so unique and gorgeous. Like the, you know, the Ronettes lead singer,

be my baby, like legendary. And the, and then, you know, I won't, I won't spoil your thing. But then later when she like is in a hit later on, it's like, she looks like she's 25. She's back entirely. But that idea, he really did rob her of a career because she could have had anything. She was perfectly made for show business. She was, and she was incredibly talented. And actually during their divorce in 1974, Ronnie gives up all of the future earnings from her recordings because Phil threatens to have her killed by a hit man if she doesn't. So that's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars that she has to walk away from, you know, which is, I think, a familiar, not that much, but a familiar story for abused women.

Ronnie walks away with a used car, $25,000, an alimony of $2,500 a month for the duration of five years, all for that fucking torture. And she has to give up custody of the children because he would regularly pull a gun on her and threaten to murder her if she took them away. It has to be heartbreaking. And sadly, the children are also abused, among other things. Phil keeps them locked in the room as soon as they get home from school every day, and they just are stuck there. So Ronnie's finally able to relaunch her career, but finds difficulty finding chart success until she appears on Eddie Money's 1986 iconic hit, Take Me Home Tonight, in which which goes on to number four. And despite Phil's objections, Ronnie and the Ronettes are included into the Rock and

Roll Hall of Fame in 2007, among other continuing successes. So she made it. Yes, she did. Big time. I mean, she was like a huge part of that video too. I mean, I was 16 when that song came out. Yeah. So ironically, during all this chaos, Phil Spector is mounting a major comeback. Spector was working with George Harrison. And when Lenin wanted George in the studio for his record, Instant Karma, he asked Phil Spector to come into the recording session. They recorded it in one day. Phil Spector mixed it on the spot with his Wall of Sound style. And the single was put out in the same week. Phil Spector would go on to produce further solo albums by both George Harrison and John Lennon. And they liked his work so much that they brought him to England

to fix the Beatles abandoned recordings for their Let It Be album, which was previously assumed to be a complete wash. So this is fucking historical shit, you know. But he is slowly beginning to act more erratic and more eccentric. In 1973, he's hired by John Lennon to produce his new album of covers. And Phil starts appearing at the studio wearing wild costumes like, quote, surgeon or karate guy. And he always has a gun and a holster on him. He's also frequently high on the inhalant. Amyl nitrate. Amyl nitrate. Otherwise known as poppers. Hell yeah. Okay, here's an interesting fact I didn't know. Poppers are officially used as an angina heart medication or to treat cyanide poisoning. But they become popular in the 70s and 80s drug culture. Okay, ready for why? As it

causes the throat and anus to relax and gives you a short high. Yeah. So all things that we've always wanted in our lives. Yes. Yes. And jokingly, quote, one night, Spector pulls out his gun and surprises John Lennon by firing it off in the studio by Lennon's ear. John Lennon screams at Phil, Phil, if you're going to kill me, kill me. But don't fuck with my ears. I need them. But in a British accent, he would chase John Lennon around the studio with a gun threatening to shoot him while he was drunk or on drugs. And of course, John Lennon later dies of a gunshot wound. So that's just kind of fucked up. Throughout the 70s and following his divorce from Ronnie, Phil becomes more crazed and reclusive, especially following a car crash in 1974,

where he's thrown from the window of his car. And I guess it's he looked dead, but a cop found a faint pulse. And after several hours of surgeries at UCLA Medical Center for his massive head injuries resulting in 300 face stitches and 400 stitches to the back of his head, Phil survives. But he's presumably super scarred up, which is why he starts wearing his notoriously outrageous wigs. Can I ask, sorry, what year was that car accident again? 74. Oh, wow. Why? Wow. No, I just, I wasn't sure. I just wasn't sure of like where in the timeline we were. That's okay. Crazy. Yeah. So he's already going a little fucking psychotic, but then this kind of massive head injury, we all know what that does. Not great. Not great. Not good. No. So Phil will go on to work with other

notable musicians like Leonard Cohen, and they get shitfaced on booze, write 12 songs, but the and again, he's drunk on Manashevitz, which I find stereotypical. And I resent that as a Jew. He's being a real, he's been a real hack as a, as a Jewish man. Can we just get a bottle of like Josh or can we get a bottle of, you know, what's that Stella? I don't know. So he pulls a gun on him during an argument and, you know, doesn't kill him, obviously, but the album's a massive failure. And Cohen remembers from the studio recordings that they were that that they were, quote, armed to the teeth. You were slipping over bullets and biting into revolvers in your hamburger. So like, you don't need to be that armed in a studio, friend. I mean, it is very indicative of

what the 70 what was going on in the 70s, which was in, I would guess, and from the little that I know about like the music industry in the 70s, it was like, whatever the fuck anyone wants to do, they get to do plus three three lines of cocaine a minute. As long as you're successful, you will not be punished for anything, any behavior. Yeah, you get if you get the hit going, no one gives a shit how you got it there. So you shoot John Lennon in the ear, well, then whatever. Right, which I feel like is similar to today in the fucking entertainment industry. Oh, yeah. Oh, it reminds me of Boogie Nights kind of just that like psychotic. What is everyone doing? Nobody knows because they're all high on drugs. Yeah. And also, I think poppers like as a

inhalant drug like that. I mean, it makes me think of it's just like, I think that does also affect your brain like nitrous, like taking hits. It's not great. I don't think it's good for you. Pop brain cells, you can hear them while you're high. Like little like what are those candies that pop in your mouth? Pop rocks. Pop rocks. Yes. Or zots. Depending on where. What type of the country you're from. Around this time, Debbie Harry, of course, of Blondie is invited by Phil to his mansion to discuss working together. Shortly after arriving, she says he pulled a gun on her and says, quote, that notorious thing he does. He stuck it in my boot and went bang. I thought, get me out of here. Why would anyone be carrying a 45 automatic in their own house?

Yeah. So even she like fucking later and could tell that he was psychotic. But he has a pattern of pulling guns on people is what this is all illustrating. They normalized the gun pulling. That's right. That's just how he is, they say. Yeah. If you want the wall of sounds, that's what you have to put up with, they say. That's right. Little lady. So then in 1979, the Ramones hire Phil Spector and realize that there are what they say are two fills. There's nice and evil fill. Sometimes he dressed in casual clothes. He's easygoing and funny. And sometimes he wears a cape, sunglasses and his derogatory mean abusive and only wants things done his way. One story that Dee Dee Ramone tells is that he was trying to leave the studio after a long session and Phil

pulls out a revolver and says, you're not going anywhere. Phil Spector was later asked by Vanity Fair, what's your greatest fear? And he answered, quote, that God won't let me into heaven because I'm too evil and the devil won't let me into hell because I'm afraid he's afraid I'll take over. Which is like, dude, you're not that great. Dude, dial it back. Just go to a self-help podcast, right? Yeah, really, go to a meeting. Like, very grandiose, very grandiose. So he made the Ramones end of the century, what didn't do well at the time, but everyone know it's like a classic. Aside from a small handful of other things like being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

by Tina Turner in 1989, Phil basically disappears from between 1981 until 2003, where he reenters the public eye for the worst possible of reasons after meeting the beautiful actress and model Lana Clarkson. So let me talk to you, Karen, about Lana Clarkson. So she's born in 1962. She's raised in the hills of Sonoma County, California, pointing at you. After her father's death in 1978, she moves to Southern California and pursues a career as an actress and model. And I cannot overstate how fucking beautiful she was. I mean, like Heather Locklear style, Charlie's Angels, beautiful. Yeah, she looked like a Vogue model. Yeah. Like not just like, not just kind of like TV actress, beautiful, but yeah. She would have

been in the car, a car's video, you know, the band, the band, the car is not a video for the Toyota Corolla or, you know, so. Okay. In the early 80s, she gets bit parts in film and television. Then in 1982, she makes her movie debut as a minor character in Fast Times at Ridgemount High, and which she plays the unexplored, like the joke is that she's this unexpectedly super hot wife of the nerdy science teacher, Mr. Vargas, played by Vincent Schiavelli, who's this fucking incredible actor. So you remember that part where like at the dance, he introduces his wife to the kids. Oh, I didn't realize that was her. I know. That's yeah, that's so good. So she goes on to perform in the laundry list of small television and film roles and projects like Scarface,

Threes Company, Knight Rider, and numerous major commercials. But her niche is the main role she has in several 1980s sci-fi B movies for producer Roger Corman, who's known as the Pope of pop cinema. And he started a lot of famous people's careers. And it made her a cult hero. And she becomes a favorite at comic book conventions where she makes promotional appearances and signs autographs for her fans. And she's also personally an incredibly kind person. In the 80s, Lana spends time every week at the HIV AIDS charity Project Angel Food, which delivers food to people who can't provide for themselves, whether physically or because they've been shunned by others because of their diagnosis. So she does that weekly.

Well, coming into her 30s, Clarkson's career stalls and she can't get enough work to live on anymore. Classic story. She makes a little money selling autograph copies of her movies and chatting in with fans behind early paywall message boards. So this is like the late 90s. I know. I like forgot that was a thing. In her acting career, she made a living by playing these bombshells. He's like hot ladies. But her desire was to be cast in comedic roles or perform as a comedian. And she even began work as a stand up on a stand up set. Oh, and she also developed, wrote, produced and directed a showcase reel called Lana Unleashed. But by January 2003, at 40 years old, she needed to make ends meet. So she took a part time side job at the House of

Blues in West Hollywood on the Sunset Strip. It's closed now, huh? Yeah. I think they knocked the whole building out. Yeah. And that's where in the early hours of February 3rd, 2003, she meets Phil Spector. Oh, wow. Okay. I know. And I can't, I can't find a real explanation of why she agreed to go back to his house with him. But I bet he was persuasive. I bet he was promising her he could help with her career. It sounds like, because when she, they took, they went, Phil's driver drove them in their limo to his house. And she says to him, while she's exiting the, she says to the driver, I'm only staying for one drink. So it seems like she was like, all right, you know, he was persuasive, I'll go home, we can talk and have one drink, but probably could

tell that this was not someone she, you know, wanted to be around. This is the story of so many people in Los Angeles, because it's a, it's a town filled with people who have gotten, you know, for good jobs. And then, you know, some time has passed and now they're just like, what the hell am I going to do now? And pivoting and parling things and other things. And this is, and it is just a feeding ground for powerful men who just want to go around and pick people off. And that's just, it's how it is. And I think, you know, the, we're joking about a driver, but I'm sure that like they were saying, like, I think Dee Dee Ramon said, it's like, there was a good side to him, which I'm sure that's how he continued to work. He's charming.

He's persuasive. He's amicable. He's, he must have made it easy for people to believe he was going to be totally with them. Totally. Because if you come out like, you know, shooting off guns, everyone's going to go that guy's fucking crazy. So he must have been good enough for enough of the time that people were like, eh, he's still this legend. Yeah. And she, sorry, but if she's working at the House of Blues, which is a musical venue, he is a living legend from the music business. Oh my God, you're right. That means something. Like everyone there was like fawning over him and he wants to take her home and talk about her career. Yeah. No, you're totally right. Yeah. So they go in the house, the driver stays in the driveway. And an hour later,

the driver hears a gunshot from inside the house. And then Phil Spector comes out of the rear of the house carrying a 38 Colt Cobra revolver and tells the driver, quote, I think I just shot her. The driver calls 911 and police arrive to find a single gunshot to Lana's mouth. Oh, and she's dead. Spector is eventually charged with murder. Here's he remains free on a million dollar bond and is allowed to stay in his beautiful Alhambra mansion until his trial starts in March of 2007. So four fucking years. Yeah. Yeah. That's how it is for rich people for bonds. You don't have to stay in prison. That's right. To to justice systems. Yep. Yep. The trial is shown live on television from the Los Angeles Superior Court. It's allowed

by Judge Larry Paul Fiddler, and it becomes a circus. Did you watch any of it back then? I remember seeing it, but I didn't. Yeah, I just remember that it his hair, his daily hair check in, basically. Well, and it sucks because his like, he was upstaging the importance and the like seriousness of what was happening. Yeah. So suddenly he's walking in with this, you know, it looked like he'd basically ratted his hair out like that. Yeah. Of, you know, two feet out from his head. And then that's what everyone's laughing and talking about. And he's there for fucking murder. Totally. It was exact. It was so similar and down to Dominic Dunne covering it. That's the OJ Simpson trial. And like, yeah, I think everyone was at the time, like, oh,

shit, is he going to get acquitted to? Like, you know, this beautiful woman who was killed by this jealous crazy man, you know, was fucked up. So it quickly becomes a circus. And it's only partially a circus because of Phil Spector's crazy wigs and these flamboyant suits he had on. But the whole trial itself was a spectacle. The prosecution points out that Phil Spector has a history of pulling firearms on women he is romantically or wants to be romantically involved with. So she was in the foyer, probably trying to leave at the time when she was shot. And that's his, his MO. This usually occurs after he's rejected in some capacity. It's when he pulls out his gun. And each time he points a gun at the woman attempting to leave his presence. And he, how many also

frequents with artists in the studio? So they point this all out. There's a fucking pattern. At his trial, numerous former female acquaintances testify that he had pulled a gun on them when they attempted to leave him. And his ex-wife, Ronnie, also testifies against him. Nice. Nice. Meanwhile, these pieces of shit, despite their public vows not to do so, the defense attempts to completely trash Lana's name in an attempt to convince the jury. Here's their argument that Lana being devastated that her career was over, shot herself in the foyer herself on purpose. That's dirty fucking business right there. So dirty. How do you sleep at night? I think I actually remember that. I remember this, these kind of stages of things happening. And when,

and when that became the defense, people were very upset about it. Yeah. And meanwhile, they didn't even bring that up until then. Despite, and the fact that he had said, I think I just shot her quote, it was just ludicrous. I think nobody, nobody believed it. Right. So they call her best friends quote unquote. They're called to testify against her character. So their, her quote unquote best friends who are just trying to get book deals probably are being called to fucking testify against her character. Dominic Dunn in Vanity Fair says quote, after their declarations of friendship and love, they took their poor, dead friend apart with anecdote after anecdote, making it appear that Lana was in such a state

of abject despair over the failure of her life. By the way, she's 40. Like, it's not 40 gorgeous, smart enough to continually like parlay her past things into something else. Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Objective despair of the failure of her life that shooting herself in the mouth in a stranger's house was a totally logical step for her to take ludicrous. Yeah. And her mom and sister are like in the courtroom every day having to hear this bullshit dirty. Yeah. So expert witnesses are called including the distinguished forensic scientist Dr. Michael Baden, who's paid $110,000 for his testimony for the defense, giving scientific quote proof that Lana killed herself. So, of course, both sides have expert witnesses. They're fucking paid to argue whatever their side

wants. And in fact, in 2007, a judge rules that renowned forensic expert for the defense, Henry Lee, who we're all familiar with, he also worked as an expert in trials for John Benet Ramsey, O.J. Simpson, and Lacey Peterson. He's famous that he hid or destroyed an object from the scene, either an acrylic fingernail or a towel that had blood on it to make it seem like she had taken her own life. What? Yeah. And he denies such allegations, but a judge ruled that he did do it. Wow. So, so they were both testifying for the defense. Okay. That Lana killed herself. I mean, again, that's a thing of like they he has more money than God. So they can hire anyone they want, and they the people will be more and more legit seeming. Yeah. To get that story.

Yes. God, that's dirty. It's estimated that he spent between $8 and $10 million on legal fees. Oh my God. I know. Wow. Here's a side note and what an asshole to demonstrate what an asshole Phil Spector is, in case we didn't already know. In the midst of all this, in 2007, Phil Spector goes to known woman beater, Ike Turner's funeral, and he gives a eulogy. And during the whole thing, he takes shot at Tina, take shots at Tina Turner's autobiography saying that it was quote, a badly written book, and that it demonized and vilified Ike, which is like known that he Ike beat demonized and vilified Ike. Yeah, he did it. Ike did that. He said, Phil said quote, Ike made Tina the jewel she was. When I went to see Ike play at the Cine Grill in the 90s,

there were at least five Tina Turner's on the stage performing that night. Any one of them could have been could have been Tina Turner. You're kidding yourself. Funeral eulogizing while you're on trial for murder. Can you imagine being in that fucking audience? But also it's that that's one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever heard, or it's like Tina Turner, Tina Turner, the legendary Tina Turner. There's no one like Tina Turner in the world, or we would have known about them already. So he's up there eulogizing by lying his fucking. I mean, that's psychotic. That's crazy. It shows you what a fucking misogynist he was and that he obviously just hated women. And you know, it's just he's fucking crazy. So yeah,

for real. So he spent eight to 10 million on legal fees. But ultimately, the jury is fucking dead locked with two jurors holding out against a guilty verdict. A judge, the judge declares a mistrial and a retrial of the now 68 year old Phil Spector begins on October 20th, 2008. So we're going to go through it all over again. Fortunately, this time, TV cameras aren't allowed in the courtroom. But the case doesn't go to jury until March 26, 2009. And it only takes like less than a month for the jury to find Phil Spector guilty. Yeah. And actually, I was just going to theorize that maybe there are some jurors, jurors maybe got bribed, perhaps. Well, there was like one juror who lived down the street from him in Alhambra and like star fucked him kind of and was like, I saw him

with grocery store ones. So like clearly had like a thing for him. And then there was another one who just seemed like another misogynist, you know, they didn't seem like they were judging based on the facts. Right. Right. So when he so when they're in trial reading the verdict, they they thought that Phil they definitely thought Phil Spector was going to be a suicide risk and maybe had brought in a capsule of cyanide with him. So they put like the security on him that if he when the verdict was read that if he moved towards his pocket, they were to tackle him. No, no, I'm I'm laughing about the idea that they would they would tackle that tiny, that tiny, permed haired lunatic. Right. But it didn't happen. So he sentenced to 19 years

to life in state prison. On February and February 2012, Donna Clarkson, Lana's mother settled a civil suit against his insurance company for an undisclosed amount, which we all hope is millions and millions. Yes, God, please. Numerous loophole appeals of all sorts continue and I'm sure fucking devastate Lana's family for years and years until they're all denied in 2015. Phil Spector, his health was already deteriorating, even you could talk just by looking at him due to various things, including having lost the ability to speak from laryngeal papillomatosis dies in the prison, California health care facility in Stockton, California of COVID-19 complications. Oh, shit. On January 21st, like a week and a half ago,

2021 at the age of 81. I did not know it was COVID related. I wouldn't even notice this. It was a passing thing until my dad sent me that email. And I was like, what the fuck? I will say that in the email, a lot of the guys acknowledged what he did. They weren't all like, good memories of Phil Spector. It was like, yeah, he became a monster. So I don't want to sully the lock and beers. Sorry. He wasn't that person. He developed into that monster. Exactly. And I don't even know if they all kept in touch with him. So let's end on a positive note. Ronnie Spector in 2018, while Phil Spector was in prison said, quote, what I went through made me great. I was determined nobody would ever keep me down again. I won.

Phil's where he is and I'm going all over the world. Yeah. And that is the murder of Lana Clarkson by the monster Phil Spector. Oh, that's amazing. Great job. Thank you. Someone recently, because I was reading an article about this murder and someone made the very valid and very sad point that because you, I remember like when you heard about this story, and this happens a lot, I think, with just our very strange media bias that we all have, where it's like, oh, this really beautiful woman and she's in this old rich guy's house. You all know what that means, right? Exactly, which I hate. Like there's all this assumed stuff. And someone was like, this woman was murdered by a man she knew for one day. Right. Like that's, it's, it's the nightmare. It is

of the night. And it's someone that she thought, oh, he just wants, oh, this happens to me. Oh, this could be interesting. I bet you he was like, I'm going to show you my X, Y or Z interesting rich guy thing. Totally. And, but just that idea that she was just there of like, you know, like we'll see and she gets murdered is, it's such a tragedy. He pulls, who would have thought he pulled a fucking gun out? Like that's just, and also he's like rich and professional and well known. No one would think that they would also, you know, you just don't, it's, it's a fucked up world for a bunch of a bunch of fucking machismo tragedy pieces of shit. So yeah, it's an absolute tragedy wishing her family love and happiness. So wow, that's a big one. Yeah, it's good. I like

when they're, you know, like updates, like a recent, a recent one of like, Hey, this just happened. I like that. Guess what COVID did to you want to do a couple of fucking hurrays? Yes, let's do it. All right. Want to go first? Want me to go first? Even the first. Okay. This is from Brianna Anavae. I waited so long for this, but I finally have a fucking hurray. As of Friday, I will have finally completed my 1600 hours of cosmetology school. Hey, little party emoji with a boo, you know, which allows me to take my state board exam for my license. After a couple failed attempts to attend college, moving back home and being completely lost in life, I'm finally doing what makes me happy. Yay. I haven't felt this motivated to finish something in so long. And

it's such an amazing feeling. At almost 24, I have to remind myself I still have time in life. 24. Remember when we were like, I'm running out of time. No, but you know what? I'm not, I'm not laughing at because that is the, the age where you're comparing yourself to people that you went to high school or college with. And certain people have are on a thing, a trajectory or whatever. So we're not laughing at you, but it is. We're laughing at how so insane. Much time you have. You're very young. Yes. At almost 24, I have to remind myself I still have time in life and need to slow down to make myself happy. Thank you for giving me a distraction during such a crazy year and also getting me through Cosmo School, SSTGM, Brianna.

Brianna, I'm so jealous. I'm so jealous of Cosmetology School. I quit after three months, six months. I quit Cosmetology School. It's fucking hard. It's hard, right? Good luck on your exams. Get real good at it. You make that good money. That's fucking right. Congratulations. Okay. Mine is from, the name is Caroline Gantt. It says, my fucking hooray is for my amazing sister, Lauren. L-O-R-E-N. She not only introduced me to your podcast a few years ago, which has gotten me, which had gotten me to so much, to or through? Probably through. I don't know if we've helped people travel to places.

We actually, oh, I gave this girl a ride. No, no. Sorry. But she is also a NICU nurse at a public hospital. She is such a hero to those babies and is also my hero. And I will be going to the law school in her same city next year. Can't wait to be close to her again, SSTGM, and fucking hooray for sisters. Yes. Thank you. Man, you guys are heroes. Yep. All health care workers. Thank you. Truly. Thank you. The light at the end of the tunnel is coming. I hope so. Yeah. This is from authentic underscore and underscore imperfect, authentic and imperfect on Instagram. I just want to say that I listened to this episode while I was sitting super nervously at a breast imaging center waiting for a mammogram and an

ultrasound after finding a lump a few months back. Hearing Steven get so excited about saying a number made me snort, laugh out loud and get lots of confused looks. Steven, thank you for that, especially at a time when I needed it and hashtag fucking array for the lump being basically nothing and prayer hands and a lady dancing emoji. Nice. Yay. Congratulations. Yay. Congratulations. Everyone get your boobies checked. Yep. It's important. Okay. This one is from P K L Z D M R C O. Pickles DeMarco. If I had to guess, I would say Pickles DeMarco. That's my new fucking baby's name. Sure. This is a tiny hashtag fucking hooray today is that my six year old niece has a classmate named Janet, a kindergartner named Janet is so precious and funny to me. Oh my god,

baby Janet. A little baby Janet kindergarten. My one of my best friends is pregnant and I offered her $100 to name her baby Deborah. Turn me down. Yeah. Nice one guys. These are this this week's good. Send us your fucking hurrays. I think that we all need them right now and I feel like every win these days is like bigger than it feels bigger than before because they're so hard to come by or they were so hard to come by the last four years. We're all breathing in sigh of relief and are able to celebrate to celebrate our wins. You know, and we I was actually just talking to my therapist about this that sometimes it's like there's this sigh of relief, but then it's almost like as the shock wears off, you can actually start feeling your wounds again. So there might be

give yourself time because there might be like in your relief. There's a relief feeling that also then it's like, Oh, why isn't my life perfect again? Or why isn't everything feel great? And you have to just be just remember to be kind with to yourself and stay present because you know, it is people more and more people are getting that vaccine more and more, you know, we're looking to we're looking toward an ending of this instead of being stuck in the middle of it with like no ride home, which was such a stressful feeling for so long. Like that we can tell ourselves the truth, which is that that's not the case anymore. And I even though we're way at the beginning of the end, it's still the beginning of the end, which is nice. My therapist knows I

love analogies. It's like how my brain works. So she told me that like, for example, like not drinking and suddenly being able to feel feelings and how much I fucking hate that. But she was like, imagine the backseat of your car is filled with trash that you've just been throwing back there and throwing back there and not dealing with and not dealing with you. I'm gonna look at it at all. But when you suddenly stop your car at a stop sign out of nowhere, all that trash is going to come piling forward into the front seat and burying you and you're going to feel like it's forever. But you just have to sift through that trash and take it out of your car and clean out your car. And it slowly goes away. So I thought that was a really great analogy and that kind of

that's a great analogy. And remember, actually, the reality of it is, they're feelings and thoughts. So they're not real, right? It's not even actually trash. It's just stuff that your brain serves up to defend you and keep you safe. But that actually you are in charge of and you can choose, you know, how dire you make it, how big you make it, all of it is your choice. That's very true. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Love it. Gosh. Thanks, you guys. We're so lucky to be able to talk at you every week and you can talk back at us. And we appreciate that. It's nice. It's a nice community. It's a nice hang. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?