My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 275 - Raise The Snail: Steven’s 5th Anniversary!

Episode Date: May 20, 2021

This week, Karen and Georgia tell the story of the real life "Lord of the Flies.”See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook, and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hi. Thank you. Have fun. That's the beginning of the fuck.

There's Vince taking over cookie duty, puppy duty for me. Oh, nice. Hello. And welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Heartstar. That's Karen Kilgera. I thought Georgia was just starting the podcast when she said hi to Vince. Hi. Hi. That's how I start now. This is the new beginning. We're starting by saying hi to other people. That's right. Well, this is that was Vince coming home from his podcast recording.

Tag slapping each other's hands and tag teaming puppy duty. Don't interrupt me. Don't let the puppy interrupt me while I'm working. It's fucking exhausting. Do you watch wrestling? Then you should listen to We Watch Wrestling. That's right. And Monday Night Beers because Vince can't have enough podcasts. It turns out. Wait, did I didn't know he started another podcast? Yeah, a while back. It's because they used to do Monday Night Beers.

He and his awesome friends where they would meet up Monday nights, obviously for beer. Everyone was welcome. And so when the podcast started, I mean, when, when the pandemic started, they were like, well, let's do a podcast of Monday Night Beers on zoom. And so now they're just kind of meeting up once in a while, like once a week. Yeah. But safely, very safely. I love that. But if they're, if they're double-vaxxed. Oh, yeah. They're all vaxxed. They're all safe.

It's a really funny podcast. So that was my plug. Jesse Popp, who was just a fucking legend. His stories, he tells are the best. Narley Zack, who is the coolest. Mike Burns. And then they usually have a guest come on. Like someone who would be up. You can only be a guest if you would have been at Monday Night Beers, which I, of course, I have. So I could be a guest.

But they haven't asked me yet. Something to bring up at the dinner table. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. What's going on? I love that. That's a very good group. Yeah. I'm, I have my own podcast, which is called existing in real life with other people.

And it is mind-blowing. Yeah, I've just been hanging out with my family. And I, we got to my cousin Stevie and his daughter, Anna and I all have birthdays in the same week. And so we had a combo birthday party on Saturday. I believe it was today's Monday. Yes. On Saturday, all together at my cousin Stevie's house. And I've told you this before,

but Stevie lives in the property behind my aunt Jean's house and farm where we grew up. Oh, yeah. And next door to where our old house. So basically when you're sitting at his house, you can see our old house and you can see his mom's old house. And my aunt Jean, his mom now lives with him. And it is history of your life.

It is. And then I was just like, I just, I think we need to buy the field next door so that we can make this a really bizarre kind of like, you know, you know, apocalyptic cult compound. Yes. Where we just stayed together all the time having barbecues and, you know, playing volleyball during wedding season. You can do like make a farmhouse and do like farmhouse weddings, make that hash, make that huge wedding industry cash.

Actually, there are definitely people in Petaluma who have done that because that is these, that look of like that, that kind of, that's what's everywhere here. But the funny thing is we grew up around those barns. But when you go inside them, they're filled with rusty old farming equipment and spider webs. And that's all. And just nails to be stepped on galore. Yeah. That was how we spent our afternoons after school.

Oh, God. Yeah. Just sharp stuff. See how you do. Rusty sharp things. And I'm ready to write that down, Steven. Rusty sharp things. Rusty sharp things. That's going to be my new book. Hey, we're writing a new book.

We can finally talk about it. Is that crazy? Yes. It's called rusty sharp things. It's about while we're working on that title, but it's, it's in the, it's on the list. It's one of the ideas that we're mulling over on the white board of life. You know, there's an app now. I just thought of this because I always thought, like, if you're having a kid and like how hard it would be to pick a name. So if you had like a whiteboard up and like you wrote your ideas and then

your spouse or partner could cross them off and write their own. There's a fucking app for that now. Right. That's the one, like the tendery one that doesn't focus that. Okay. You were on that call. Never mind. Oh, I'm on all your calls. Hi. You fucking are. Yeah. It's, it must be unnerving.

I know every, every one of these anecdotes you're going to tell, but I freaked out at that idea too, because it's that's the kind of stuff where you're just like, that's a niche that needs to be filled. Like the help you get. And then the kind of fun of making it a fun game. Yes. I'm sure it's a slog for a lot of couples. Yeah.

Name a baby. My friend, lovely Kate is having a baby and just the ideas that I've been texting her for the baby name have been bringing me so much joy and ridiculous nicks. And what do you do? Let's hear one of your best. One of your faves. Let me see. Cause I'll throw in like real ones. But then you throw in like a Tupac or, or something like.

Yeah. I can't remember. Like Harvey, but then, oh yeah. Franklin Delano, Roosevelt. I wrote something like that. James Kelvin Dexter Clark. That's it. I'm not very good at that. No.

Okay. That's the title of this episode. James Harvey Dexter Clark. We can't focus on the title. You're right. Get in our own way. You're right. You're right. You're right. Gone. It's gone. Yeah.

We have to, uh, we have to open up the door of much in the same way. We should have a title for the show. That's also a Tinder app. And then we can both see if we. Holy shit. Karen, you're on to something. And if you're in the fan cult, you can vote on it. You just spit your water. Yes. I was like, what's this?

Uh, I love it. Yeah. So yeah, I've actually been doing real world things the day that this EDC announced that they weren't going to require people who had the double vax and were fully vaccinated to wear masks anymore. Um, we went out because in my mind I was like, it's going to be like D day times square. Yeah.

I thought everyone would go out. But of course no one did. And everybody is so cautious. I feel like I'm not doing it. Yeah. People are very still very like, you know, they want to be careful and they want to be sure, which is nice. Yes.

I feel like this is the first time in the whole pandemic where I'm not listening to the CDC. I have been strict and like double time, but now I'm just like, yeah, but it doesn't hurt. And everyone everywhere I go, like even I went to the park and it's like people are still wearing them. So it's, I don't want to be the asshole without the mask when everyone else does, but you know, I pull it down when I'm not walking by someone,

but it just doesn't feel, I just feel like I can wait. It's okay. No one has to see my face right now. I will also, that's a big one. I can't keep lipstick on my mouth to save my life. No, no, no. So the idea that I get a slap of mask on and just not have to worry about ruddy skin or no lipstick is the greatest.

Yeah. You just, it's such a convenient. Be like us. Do it for vanity's sake. Do it always be vain first. Do it every day later. For vain sake. For vain sake.

Hey, speaking of vain. One of your best. The one of your greatest segues of all time. Thank you. No, I want it. This isn't vain. This is just me like living my life and living it to the fullest. I found a new, a new type of influencer to tell you about.

Great. That like clutter core was great. You know, the B influencer thing of course was just right at my alley, but this one is so me when I saw that it existed. I almost cried. I don't think it's a lot of people yet, but I did find one girl who's like the queen of it. It's a nap influencer.

Do you fucking know how many quality naps I've taken and I took a nap instead of walking around the Louvre. I took a nap on an ancient bent marble bench. It was one of the best naps of my life. You can take a nap anywhere that classic photo of me on the plane that Vince took where he said I like the Unabomber. Another great nap. He put that on my birthday cake one year.

That's right. So her name is Alex Shannon. She of course listens to the podcast cause she's awesome. And her Instagram is follow the nap and like she's been like covered by all these cool, you know, Vogue and shit. She's got these great photos of naps and stuff and like talks about that. I'm like so excited. That's my new career.

Yeah. No, no. First of all, I support your napping. Thank you. Oftentimes when people are texting you and I at the same time, I'll be like if Georgia doesn't reply immediately, that means she's napping and we can put a 45 minute hold on this conversation. Thank you.

That means so much to me that you just know that inherently. Yeah. It's true friendship. It's, and I'm the opposite where if I happen to fall asleep in the afternoon, I don't know what day it is. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. It's a gift. Yeah.

I have, I have strange dreams. I need, I need to talk to people afterwards. But I was going to say this about the influencer thing in general. Cause we have, I actually really do love these updates. I do too. My thing is they do seem to be turning over very quickly these days. And so when you say she's been covered cause there's, it's just everywhere you turn where it's like it's now it's cottage core.

Now it's minimalism, Marie. Yeah. Marie. What is her name? Marie Kondo. Marie Kondo. Now it's clutter core or whatever. I feel like they have to write a certain amount of articles in these.

Oh, I feel so bad for these writers who have to just churn out content constantly. It's got to feel soulless and empty and I feel for them. And they kind of have to look around and they're like, uh, you know what the new thing is ice cream or it's like, it's not, it's not actually been around since 1850. No, it's great. Scissors. Scissors are the new thing.

Are you a scissor fluencer because, oh my God. Well, I feel like influencer, I feel like at this point, what I love about it is that it's like, no one's kind of taking it seriously anymore. So when there's something in it that's like actually cool, that just happens to be labeled influencer because people can't, people can't understand a cool thing without it being an influencer. So making fun of it a little in that way that gets really rad.

I mean, I just want to know what the nap influencer, first of all, I bet she gets amazing swag. Is she, but is she backed by big pharma? I want to know, is she going to start coming out talking about how ambience, it's really the basis of her whole thing. Well, can I say, and this might be controversial. Naps don't, you don't need medication for naps.

Like that's a part of it to me is that they're natural. Wow, I didn't know I had a fucking stance on this. You have a philosophy. I think this is the purpose of a nap. If you have to take something, then that's not a nap. That's a putting myself to sleep. Wow. Now, do you think that along those same lines,

is it not a real nap if I have to go to sleep after I eat a bagel? No, no, that's okay. That's not, because that's not, that's just natural. That's natural. Okay. Yeah. So just keep it out of pill form and you can go to sleep and you're fine. Yeah.

Yeah. Like a lunch nap is absolutely, I'll allow it. Now, what about when you fall asleep? Cause you just can't be in a conversation anymore. We were just like, Like right now? No, no, this is not an example. This is not a conversation.

This is our career. Well, then I think that you have a, what's it called when you can't stay awake. Narcolepsy. And I think you're a narcoleptic and you should talk to big pharma about that. You should call big pharma. Call the 1-800 big pharma and be like, what do I, can you give me? No.

You know what it makes me think of when we talk about these influencers, the people that, cause you mostly find these people on Instagram, right? It's like a thing. It just makes me think of the, all the subcategories of murderinos that there are. Yes. Where it's like the immune,

immune system issue murderina. That's not the actual title. Wait, is this a segment? Are you, I mean a segue? Yes. So, I mean, no, no, this is, this is just me saying I thought of this, but it is similar where it's just people love to get separated into groups

of what they respond to. Yeah. This is what I like. I want to talk about it. And there are other people and I've always felt so alone. It's almost like a true crime podcast. True. True.

But you're never more alone than when you're napping. You can't. No, I'm usually surrounded by cats. But like, what if there's a meetup for the nap influencers? Where does that take place? Oh, fuck. So many questions you've brought up. Also, I have to just say, and I know this is my,

this is my personal rebellion issue that I have. Okay. But when these things come up, I go like, oh, what would your thing be? Like, what would you, and I don't, I can't ever think of it. It's like, when, what was the, before Facebook, the thing that everybody was on? Myspace. Myspace.

Myspace. Thank you, Steven. The young man. Steven notes. Like when, remember in Myspace, you had to like list your 10 favorite, whatever, just be like, how do you do that? I literally was just like, I don't know. I don't know what that would be.

What about board or game nights? You're a game night influencer. Thank you. Puzzling, a puzzle arena. Are there puzzle arena? There has to be. And if there's not, let's make a, we fucking made a puzzle for you guys, didn't we?

And people got, like it was popular. So I think there must be puzzlers. And there's more to come. And if they don't call themselves puzzlery nose, then may we suggest. Yeah. Game nights. That's totally your thing.

Okay. Thank you. I just needed it. I need something. Yeah. We all do. We all need to belong. We do.

Oh, you know what we belong to? Here's, watch this segue. Okay. Let's see it. We belong to the fan club of the new Netflix series, sons of Sam. We absolutely do. Let's talk about it.

Let's dig down. Let's influence about it. And so spoiler alert, people were, when it like, you know, as, as many people do, when it came out, I got some tweets of like, I need to know what you think of this. And it sometimes when people phrase the question or the statement that way, I think to myself, is this terrible? Or is this like, what do they mean?

Yeah. They're not indicating what they think. Yeah. So I feel like I really did go in. And I was like, David Berkowitz and that whole story is one of my least favorite because it's a person shooting people randomly and running away, which isn't, it doesn't get into all the kind of, I don't know. And then trying to use being crazy to justify it.

There's really no, there's no why. And there still isn't. And it's just like a bummer and sad and terrorizing this town. Yeah. So I, the same way, I was like, I don't need to know about this anymore. Right. Right. And then, but here's somebody pointed out to me because I said,

I don't want to watch that son of Sam documentary. And they said, it's sons of Sam. Did you notice that red S? And I was like, I actually literally did not see them. Why would you? So then it gets into it and I was fascinated. It is too. I can't believe that's a real story.

The fact that they were cutting to like footage of the early Geraldo show. Yeah. And the DA, the Brooklyn DA and all that. So corrupt. It goes all the way to the top. May I suggest that guy was the one that was that came out on Maury's side. Remember? Yes.

He was the one saying there is something here, which they had on camera. It was cool because it was about so many different things. Yes. David Berkowitz, the shootings, especially, but also the satanic part too. I was like, oh, fuck it. We're going to get into satanic panic, which I just have such a hard time with because it's so destructive and awful. But at the end, I was like, I believe that this was about Satan in the way that it is

or Satanism and worshiping Satan in the way that it is for teenagers and how they can convince themselves to do something based on Satanism that doesn't really exist. You know what I mean? And it's like as an excuse and these like these teens who are not part of society and not part of the norm and they just can do these and be talked into these destructive things. So that was interesting to me too. Yeah.

Same here completely. I mean, I didn't see that part coming. So, yeah, we're bad at doing this because there's always spoilers. But what I thought was fascinating, and so spoiler alert, we'll drop that in earlier. But what I thought was fascinating was those people who were, and basically I was like, and then there's this group and this group, but they all stemmed from Scientology, which to me says it's a scam because it's someone that learns, well, here's one way to influence large groups of people and get them to kind of do your bidding.

But now we're going to take it in this occult direction where it's kind of scary and we're fucking with people. It's very early 70s where people were just like, you don't know if I'm a hippie, a witch, a wizard or just a guy with long hair. Yeah. Yeah, that was crazy. And then the whole story around Maury, the main guy who was just obsessed with this case and it just kind of was his lifelong obsession and he was right, but it didn't matter.

And that's kind of what the whole thing was about. And it was really sad and, you know. I mean, and it was just, and it kind of about the media influence of the media. I mean, there's so many things I just, and here's the ultimate recommend. My sister who does not like true crime and will make me turn the channel when she comes in the room if I'm watching. You're making these hand talking noises as if you're like, oh, she fucking talks about and blah, blah, blah.

Do you see how much she's like turned the channel? Watch the entire thing. Wow. That because it's, it's about so much more. Yeah. In the beginning, I tell you, here's the influencer group I would join. Okay. High eight video of New York City in the seventies.

Oh, so good. Mind blowing what that city used to look like and what people had to deal with. And the whole, it's just now it's just mind blowing that it's kind of like history because it was 50 years ago. That city, New York City, you guys, I don't know, was going fucking bankrupt. The city was going bankrupt and as you can see everything around it was falling apart. They were fucking laying off police, entire police. I don't want to say forces because I don't know if that's true, but like chunks of the

police force because they couldn't afford them, not that they didn't need them. That it was like doubly needed and they were letting them go because they didn't have the money. It's just, yeah, it's the budget cut. I think it was lots of civil service jobs. Right. There was just all kinds of trash. That was like a fucking story high because they couldn't, they couldn't pay their sanitation

or wouldn't pay sanitation workers. It's so bad. There were strikes. It's really, yeah, I say, I say, watch it. And we say, watch it. Speaking of mayor of East town. Yes. East town.

Fuck. It's so good. It's obviously it's Kate Winslet, but it's like twisty tourney. It's like silence of the lambs. Hell yes. She's fucked up in so many ways. There's shit going on in her life, but also in the police force. She's like, she's one of those anti-heroes cause she keeps fucking up and doing dumb

shit and you're just like. Do you follow my friend Carrie O'Donnell on Twitter? Probably, but I don't go on Twitter. Okay. That's good. But, um, but he keeps making videos of the video is always called a mayor of Easton's put upon best friend and he just like, mayor, mayor, what are you doing? It's really funny.

That's a unique podcast. That's good. That's true. So you should watch that while you're up there. I feel like it's a, it's a good one to like binge with your sister. Okay. I will definitely because I, I did notice, um, they must have had, I don't know if it was like, if season finale, I don't know how many there have been.

But a bunch of people on Twitter were like, Holy shit. There was just crazy twists at the end of the last episode that like, I was like, this can't be the end of the fucking show or I'm going to be pissed. But yeah, there was like a bananas twist. Okay. Cool. So check it out. Love it.

That's it. That's a good, that's a good rec. I have, I have another recommendation that's hilarious because I've also spent the, the last couple of weeks sleeping in my 14 year old niece's bedroom and living, living life as a 14 year old in 2021. Oh my God. What's that like? It's not cool.

They had to go to zoom school for so long. They kids, it's so unfair. Like when I pulled into Petaluma, this is kind of amazing. There's this old, old building that's right at the corner of Petaluma Boulevard and Washington, which is the kind of the main intersection and the biggest, I would say intersection in downtown Petaluma. And on the, they're projecting the seniors, this year's senior class pictures, the individual pictures onto this, onto the, this old bank building.

I think it's the, the seed bank. But anyway, so I was sitting at that, the intersection and they, they sit there for a little while. So I look up and there's this kid in a tuxedo with a big smile. And I was like, God, that's the youngest real estate agent I've ever seen. And it took me forever to figure out cause I've never, they've never done that before that I've seen. And then I realized these kids have been ripped off. They were like, they're, they're graduating and they weren't even in school last year.

It's all so shitty for them. So it's like, here, we'll put your picture up. And of course I'm sure they're bummed out about that. Hey, I was just going to say that sounds like the most embarrassing thing I've ever heard in my fucking life. Like I, I had a cute senior picture and I don't want that motherfucker up on the fucking wall. This thing is literally like 20 by 20 feet by 10 feet, like being projected up. It's hilarious.

I love it. But they all look so cute and they're so young and it just, yeah. Is that your recommendation? Yeah. Go to Petaluma downtown Petaluma and really stand on the corner for an hour and look at every child graduated from Petaluma high school. Maybe a fun game would be to assign adult jobs to them based on what they look like too. Okay.

I know we definitely have a real estate agent in the pack. I would have bought any property from this kid easily. The pencil you're gesturing wildly with is really helping me believe you. Do you know that Nora had to take a test and she had to have a number two pencil? What? And she kept going, I don't, we don't have them. And I was like, Nora, I guarantee you your mother has minimum 10 number two pencils. She's a teacher.

Of course she does. Yeah. Yeah. You just never noticed them before. Yeah. They don't get it with their laptops. I have a recommendation, a movie. This is for real.

I hate to interrupt you. Please always do. That was actually, that was the beginning of my recommendation. I thought I, I see that now. Do you see it? Respect. I appreciate that. I went, I took off.

I went way out. I'm, I banked around and now I'm coming in for the landing. Sorry. It took me that long. It's great. It's great. But among the other things of sleeping in Nora's room, which is her beautiful light blue TikTok lights that go all around the kids, all kids have those.

I know it's the cool thing these days. Is it? Cause I feel like I'd have a seizure from that. Like they're just, it's just a light. Okay. You know, so you, you turn it on and then your room just looks light blue or red or whatever coming back. You're the expert on seizures.

So I'll, I'll let you. Yes. Stop taking them like they are a seizure influencer. Finally. Again, but here comes big pharma again to give you that sweet, sweet branding money. Yeah. Look, you know what? All I want you to do is control them.

That's all I care about. I just want to really quickly say that big pharma sucks. We're totally fucking around. They're horrible, horrible people for the most part, except for the ones that get me off depression and anxiety, but otherwise. Well, the ones that have basically put out, there is a documentary on Netflix. Go ahead, Stephen. The crime of the century.

Yes. Oh. Yes. The crime of the century about all of that stuff. And it's supposed to be amazing. Yeah. Fuck man. What's that called the opiate, the opiate flood that this country is dealing with and

has wrecked people's lives and no one's talking about it. It's so horrible. So crime of the century on Netflix, we should also, that's a recommendation. Let's do it. It's just horrendous. Back to your blue lights. I just did a recommendation within my recommendation. This is nuts.

This is my favorite murder. You know it. We have problems. So, so, so in Nora's room, I go to bed and I was trying to read the, the book I recommended last week, the Oprah book that she wrote called what happened to you, which is great, but it's heavy. And I was like, so I was reading it and I was kind of like getting weepy and I was just like, there's all these things.

You can't do anything about how you grew up, but you can do something about being a self-empowered adult. But we all have shit, you know, everybody. I put that book down and I picked up the book, like the last book Nora read that she keeps on her nightstand. It's some young adult fiction. So good. I'm such a fan of young adult fiction.

It's okay. No books were written like this when I was growing up. Oh no. I guess we had some great Judy Bloom, but there was this gap between, are you there? It's me, Margaret and Wifey, where literally there was no bridge between. And these days, you know what it was? Sorry. What?

The thing we had to use was Stephen King. That was our young adult lit. It's why everyone our age has fucking read every single Stephen King book because there was nothing in between. You're so right. You're like, I'm not. I don't, I got all I needed to read about getting my period. Yeah.

Now I need to know about the devil slash alien slash spider in the sewer. I can't jump straight to clan of the cave bear. I've got a fucking bridge that gap. Clenup the cave bear. My mom read it. I was like, what the fuck is this? Did you try to read that thing? I forced myself to read it one year when we were at Blue Lake when we were on vacation

as a family at a sunburn. I was reading that thing. I was just like, what are these adults talking about? My mom was like, obsessed in a way that I've never seen her. I mean, she loves reading, but this was like a different fucking book for her in her life. It really painted a picture. Oh yeah. The picture was of a cave and like somebody that lived there in the, whenever it was. And the clan.

Magnum. It was a clan. Everybody kind of working through the clan stuff. Back to my recommendation. So the book that I picked up is called, we all looked up and it's the author is Tommy Wallach. And I am telling you, I don't know how, maybe it's not young adult. It must be because my sister wouldn't buy my niece an adult book. But this thing is so good.

I care about these characters so much. The plot is fascinating. It's about an asteroid that's coming and basically everybody finds out the asteroid is on a director trajectory for the earth. I'm on board already. That's my fucking favorite subject. It's great. It's really well written. It's really compelling.

I've been staying up till two in the morning reading it. It's so good. And I keep going to Nora. You read that book, right? She's like, yeah, it's really good. I'm like, no, I thought it was just going to be a baby book that I'd read real fast. I feel like you're a baby. I thought it was for babies.

Suck their thumbs. She's like, I'd like to let you know that I'm actually an eighth grade influencer. I just saw her peek her head in here to tell you what the book was called. And I was like, what's up 20 year old? I know. I know. With gorgeous hair and like these beautiful eyes. And like, I could see her eyelashes from here.

And I was jealous. I know. Yeah. And she had the thing I always like rant at her about, I'm like, you don't understand because she has the most gorgeous caramel skin. Cause it's the perfect combination of her father and my sister. And I was like, you don't understand how lucky you are. It looks like you're wearing nylons on all the time.

Look at my legs. I grew up with legs that look like a map of a river delta. Fuck you. I don't say that part to her, but I'm livid. It's like, I could never wear shorts. Yeah. My legs are so white. They were purple and look at you just like walking around.

Yeah. In your short shorts. You don't understand. Long legs. She's a fucking model. What's the book? She's the best. It's called We All Looked Up by Tommy Wallach.

That's so funny because my book that I'm reading, it's not a young adult book, but it's actually really sweet and it could be, but it's not, but it's by one of my, it's also an end of the world book. Oh, nice. Weirdly. It's by one of my favorite comedic writers and you know him and I know him, not personally, but Simon Rich, who I'm just always obsessed with. He's like, he's done stuff for this American life.

He's written Man Seeking Woman. He's just such a great, he created it. So the book's called Miracle Workers and the tagline is on the trillionth day God quit. And it's basically when you're, you die, you become an angel and you work at God's corporation. He's the CEO. He's a classic fucking piece of shit, like goes golfing at three, drinks all day. The only prayers he answers are like for sports people because he obsessed with sports, doesn't do any work.

And finally he decides, you know what, I'm going to quit. I'm going to destruct the earth and open an Asian fusion restaurant. I'm shutting the whole thing down and the main character is an angel who works in the miracles department with this awesome chick and he's like, God, just tell me, I'll invest in your restaurant. If you just let me try to answer one prayer in a month and then you won't shut it down. And God's like, let's do it. So he and his co-worker have to answer one, this one beautiful prayer of this couple down

on earth and it's just, it's so funny and so many little tidbits about like the miracles department and there's actually is God does have an apostle and it's a guy with a sign who's like on the side of the road naked being like God says this and it's like actually God says it's so charming and funny. I highly recommend it. It's called miracle workers by Simon Rich. It's just like such a good switch from like son of sons of Sam and Shins. I needed it.

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And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast Even The Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston, Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched, but her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people

led her down a dark path. Follow Even The Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Should we move on to exactly right corner? Yes, I believe we should. Okay, great. Not that much in the news this week. It's pretty slow going.

Yeah, but so exciting. Make sure you check out all the podcasts on the Exactly Right Network, which you can just find on if you put an Exactly Right on your search and whatever podcast thing you look, you know how these things work and look exactly right. All our red podcasts are there. Great. And also great bookings. Oh, God.

Hannah Creighton, who is our booker and super producer, she gets great people. It's very cool to see. She does. We have an incredible team and just the best podcast. I'm so proud. And for example, and one I truly love is Tenfold More Wicked presents Wicked Words, which is Kate Winkler Dawson's new version of Tenfold More Wicked, where she interviews true crime authors and journalists, and it premiered this week with Dr. Katherine Ramsland.

And they were talking about BTK. And this woman is, she wrote a book with BTK. She is an expert and she is a very compelling speaker. I've heard her on other true crime podcasts. She's really great. And that it's just, it really is kind of cream of the crop in terms of people talking, true experts talking to experts about this topic that we all love to listen to so much. That's amazing.

I can't get an FBTK info, so I'm definitely going to listen to that. It's fascinating. Yeah. And then on I Said No Gifts with Bridger Weinerger, this duo is going to be magnificent. It's Kurt Bronner from Bananas is the guest. These are two of the funniest, sweetest, like most amiable dudes in the world. I just, it's going to be bonkers. It's going to be bananas.

It's going to be bananas. But it's not. It's I Said No Gifts. That's right. That's right. And then on That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast. This is the, this is what I was thinking of when I was talking about the amazing booking. They have Lou Diamond Phillips, who is from season seven episode 19 of SVU.

He's their guest. I mean, that's awesome. That is powerful. I lost my mind when we heard that on the, on our office meeting on Friday, when they said that I was just like, I went back to when I first saw Young Guns and I almost started crying when I saw him and his beauty. Yes. I mean, I mean, La Bamba baby, La Bamba is like the greatest movie of my favorite movies

as a kid. I wouldn't get on a plane for years. We were supposed to fly to San Francisco with my dad for like a dad outing and I fucking stayed at my grandma's house cause I refused and it's like an hour flight. I was like, nope, La Bamba happened. I'm not fucking going. And there was like photos from that time. The plane was so much smaller and they were in a storm.

And it was like the 1950s, Georgia. Yeah. Nope. I was seven and I was like, go fuck yourself. So that's amazing. Well, this is how art affects us. Oh, wow. Thank you Lou Diamond Phillips for saving Georgia's life.

They didn't die. They were. Oh, good. Oh, I'm so glad. And then. Yeah. You want to talk about the Cousies? Let's talk about the Cousies.

We got some Cousies. It's summertime coming up and once you're double vaccinated, you can stand around in a yard with the same beer for three hours in the sun. You're going to need a Cousie from our store and now you can have one that says, here's the thing. Fuck everyone on it. Cool. And mine events is a collection of our own podcast Cousies, which we absolutely have

a lot of because we end up with a lot of extras and we use them all the time. So get be like Georgia and Vince, keep your drink cold, baby. And now this is a very exciting part. We're very excited and touched and thrilled to be able to tell you that this episode is Stephen Ray Morris's five year anniversary of working with us on my favorite murder. Stephen. Stephen. Where does it go?

Where does the time go? Five years. That's insane. That's wild. Isn't it? I guys remember. Let's look. Let's think back into my sweltering one bedroom gross carpeted apartment in little Armenia.

That was a sauna. The neighbors were loud. They started fires. There's a lot going on for a couple of times you recorded it. There was a real loosey-goosey production until Stephen Ray Morris rolled up and was take paying attention, taking notes, giggling into his hand, making us feel like we should be doing what we were doing. Yeah.

He was the original murder Reno. That's right. And we can't thank you enough. So we asked the fan cult to go on and share with us their favorite Stephen Ray Morris memory or factoid or whatever. And I don't think you know this because you're so busy. You're a very busy man. But we actually locked you out of the fan cult for the weekend so that you wouldn't see

this before right now. Yeah. Thank you to Denton for facilitating that. He was so sly. He was like, he's out. No, no, no, no. That's hilarious. So there was no way you could you could check in early.

So now we're going to share with you some people's favorite memories and thoughts because it's been five years, Stephen. We couldn't remember them all ourselves. Yeah. But some of these highlighted our favorites. So we picked a couple, but yeah, okay. I'm first. Oh my God.

Yes. Okay. This is from Mama Shims. It says, my absolute favorite moment was when K and G were attempting to decide something. We know this one had to be included by choosing a number. These are not to tease you, Stephen. These are just like joy and lightheartedness you bring to the podcast. These are celebrate good times.

Come on. That's right. They asked Stephen to be the judge and told him to choose a number. He promptly and excitedly shouted out a number. Maybe seven. That's not how the game works. He was able to laugh at himself. What a guy.

I mean, you don't sound thrilled, Stephen. No, it's just so excited. You were genuinely excited to think of a number between one and 10. It's also two that sometimes it's like when we're recording, I'm also like looking things up. So sometimes when you guys call on me, I'm like, it's just first reaction, like first reaction to like, what's happening? That's smart.

You would never know that. And that's a lot of people talk about that, how they don't understand how you're doing all the things you're doing, and when we go like, what's the capital of Romania? You're right. And the fact that you could have yelled or you could have said, I wasn't paying attention, but it would never do that because like that's not who you are. You're like a team player. There's a reason we yell your name in all caps.

Right. You took that level one improv class. You knew to. Yes. And you've done it. Here's the one from Lizzie Borden is my great aunt. That's the fan cult member. The sweetest memory so far is from an old episode where he had a king size can of Diet

Coke waiting for Karen when she got to the pod loft. No one asked. He just did. Stephen, you are so sweet. Happy MFMversary. I'll never forget that one, Stephen, because it was a tall boy of Diet Coke. You know what you need? Those are rare.

A koozie. Yes. Didn't you steal it? Didn't you steal it from the job? You were. Yeah. I used to steal Diet Cokes from one of my old jobs too. That is sucking dedication.

Yeah. Stealing from. It's really beautiful. One place to bring to another. We appreciate that. We really do. They did it. Okay.

This is from Ali7799. My favorite Stephen moment was when Georgia gave him his first official paycheck. Now, this is talking shit on us because it's an absolute right to do so. He was so genuinely surprised. It was delightful. I also legit laughed out loud when he admitted he'd seen Michelle Branch in the same venue where they were doing a live show. He's the best.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's the best for waiting like six months for Karen and I to barely get our shit together. I mean, no one was getting paid, although Stephen deserved it the most, because every single calculation was written on a scrap of paper in my possession, and we finally had to deliver it to Karen's business manager and be like, make sense of this and then please pay Stephen, please pay Stephen. Please make sure he doesn't leave us or sue us slapping now, right?

Let's see. This next one is from EmilyJW and she said, my favorite MFM memories when you delivered recording equipment to the Queens of murder early in the pandemic in your dinosaur onesie just to keep MFM alive. I have a picture. I remember looking through the people because I was scared of or like opening my little people door. I was scared of getting COVID if we all were and there was, you know, we talked about this

off Mike, but Stephen, when COVID started and the quarantine, the lockdown happened, you know, lots of people, lots of people couldn't do their jobs anymore. And we wouldn't have been able to do our jobs if it wasn't for Stephen Ray Morris and he put together at home recording kits for all of our podcasts that we had at the time. And when I was on their leg, I remember the zoom call with you where I was just like writing the step where I was like, you have to tell me step by step how to use this thing. And I was just like, and don't assume I get anything because I'm 50 and all of this scares the shit out of me.

And he's the most patient. He's such a good teacher. And you really did build that bridge that we could get through the unprecedented experience of a quarantine. Yep. Great. You did it. Thank you.

Okay, here's more. There's more. Here's another one. Shut up, Stephen. There's more. Just take the compliments. Let us praise you. Let us praise you.

From Ambo, props to Stephen for being that guy in the office and crew who has to simultaneously be recording, making notes, paying attention to every GD tangent and quickly Google search every pop culture brain fart reference, hey, mid tangent and mid story. Wait a second. Yeah. That's Stephen. Sorry. Best Stephen in memory is when he bought Karen and Georgia, the Time Life books.

Oh. Oh. Stephen. Are you crying yet? Stephen, cry. Really was beautiful. Cry. Cry.

I'm going to burst into tears right after we stop recording. Okay. So we can get it on now. This is from Chemgirl65 and she says, my favorite, all caps favorite, memory of Stephen's time on MFM is when he went with you guys on tour, I believe it was to Australia, New Zealand. And you guys always talk about Stephen on your live shows and we usually expect his name to be followed by, he's not here. But when you mention him and then he's there, the cheer that goes up in the venue is just

amazing. Yay. The Australian New Zealand, that was a life change. It was so incredible. It was so epic. It was so fun. It was. We loved having you there.

Okay. This is from, in Hero, wait. In her own. Thank you. Listen, I can read they're all mushed together as like user names. Yeah. Okay. In her own, right, 93.

My favorite Stephen moment was at the live show in Des Moines when Karen and Georgia called him. It was. Oh my gosh. You remember? I was like, please don't say anything weird. Please don't. Like before you knew you were live, not that I, whoever would say, I mean, I thought I

was so worried something was wrong. Like I was like, you guys were like, I knew you guys were on stage at that moment. And I was like, wait, why would they be like, did something happen? Like, I was like so terrified. That's fair. Uh, it was a brief few seconds, but it was so awesome to have him be a part of such a great moment with a big crowd of people who were so excited to have him be a part of their live show.

Um, this one's from Nikki P. Fave Stephen moment was when he blurted out, oh, because a serial killer would dress up as a priest as a child. I forget about that. I forgot why that story is adorable until you know, he becomes a serial killer, a little pre serial killer. Yeah. Okay. Last one.

It's from my last name is Holmes. It makes me laugh. Remembering one of the live shows in Florida, I think it was Tampa when they were talking about the, sorry, I'm making Stephen edit his own phrase. Yes. You're allowed to not edit any of this section, Stephen. Oh, that's your present from us when they were talking about the emerging slash unknown serial killer.

And Karen was like, all I'm saying is we've never seen the serial killer and Stephen in the same room. Think about it. I don't know why, but it just made me giggle. Happy anniversary to the least serial killer member of the MFM crew, which is so true. Wow. That's, that's high praise. Yeah.

Well, but those are the ones that you, the ones you never expect are the ones that are serial killers. But I was going to say Stephen and every murder knows know this. He takes so many hits on the live shows. I have no shame about pulling Stephen in and giving him shit and he, I mean, you haven't quit. You must not hate it. I really thank you for what a good sport you are and what a great sense of humor you have.

And you now can go on the fan cult and read over, there's about 300 comments for you on there. So thank you, Stephen. And look out, we do, and look out for a special Wednesday, Stephen MFM Instagram post with some delightful fan art of you and I'll try to find the, the photo of you delivering the equipment and the dinosaur. Oh yeah. That has to go in there.

It has to go in there as well. Yeah. Stephen, you're a treasure and we appreciate you. We're going to send you an edible arrangement. Do you know? And we love you. We love you. Thank you, Stephen.

Yes. No, I love you both. And I mean, this is the longest job I've ever had. Hey. It's amazing. Come on. And I'm, yeah, I'm just so thankful and it's the best job I've ever had and will have. So thank you.

Aww. Yay. Yay. To Stephen. Yeah. Couldn't have done it without you. Yeah. Absolutely.

And I can't wait to work together again soon. Oh God, please. So, yes. Yeah. It's going to be great. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you very much.

I can't believe it's five years. I know. It really blows my mind. It doesn't feel like five years. Yeah. I mean, it feels, we've all, compared to what it felt like sitting in your old apartment, it does. But then just also, the three of us just sitting here, it does not at all.

It's weird. It's this trio that's like stayed this way. It's really cool. It's like a, God, we've been through the trenches. Not the trenches. It's actually been pretty fucking sweet, but we've been through them together. We started from, we started from the middle, and now we're here, you know what I mean? You know the song.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. You know who's first and last this week? Stephen Tellus. Stephen Tellus. It's Karen. Woo.

Guys, I got, I got to blow my nose on my fucking dress because I can't get up. Oh. This is like a live show. It is. I can't, I sometimes think about how I blew my nose on my dress at a live show in front of like 2000 people. Hey, I'm proud of myself. Anything for the audience.

Anything. Anything to shame my mom a little more. So last week, Georgia, I almost said Nora, Georgia did, Georgia did the disappearance and murder of Lacey Peterson. It was amazing. It was so thorough. It was, we got into some real good discussions. It went on long enough for just like this top of show has where I, my story got bumped

and it's kind of funny because now this is standing alone. But I still think it, it qualifies because to me, this is one of the ultimate survival stories that it was until very recently, very unknown. Just no one knew about it except for the people who lived near and around the country and where this took place. So basically, and you might remember this last May, about three months into the pandemic, there was an article in the British newspaper, The Guardian, and it was written by a Dutch historian and bestselling author named Router Breygman, believe even though his name is

spelled Rutger, I, I watch people pronounce it Router. So he wrote this book called Humankind, A Hopeful Story. And so this is the Apple Books review with a long history chock full of slavery, genocide and war. It's easy to start thinking that perhaps human beings are inherently bad, but author and historian Router Breygman has an entirely different view. He believes that most people deep down are pretty decent and he's rounded up a slew of examples from many of the worst moments in recorded human history to back up his claim

from the tragedy of 9-11 to the sinking of the Titanic, from the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to the horrors of the Nazi concentration camps. Breygman explains how unwavering human kindness and genuine altruism have always triumphed, even in the most horrifying situations. So that's, so basically that book was coming out. And so there was an article, he wrote about that book and he wrote, wrote this article in The Guardian and he talked about this survival story. And that was his example.

And the article that he wrote immediately went viral. There was like, I think 7 million people read this article in the first week. And there was a bidding war for the film rights, of course. And 60 minutes did a segment on it that my sister called me to tell me I have to watch. Oh my God. So basically, everything I'm about to tell you is either from Ruter Breygman's Guardian article, that 60 minute segment, Newsweek, the website Trove and Wikipedia. Great.

Because I haven't heard a peep one about this. You have not? I'm the fucking, I'm the demographic. What? You're the demo. I'm the demographic. You may have, he also went this same author and he's a Dutch historian, author, writer, whatever.

He also went viral because he was at Davos in, I believe, 2019. And he basically told all the billionaires at Davos, you need to start paying taxes. And he explained it and so calmly, that also went viral. I remember watching that where he was just like, you have to give, you should be giving more than your share. He's really, really brilliant, a brilliant mind. Amazing. So, yeah.

Okay. So I'm going to tell you this story and this is the story of the real life Lord of the Flies. Oh, no. Yeah. I didn't know that was a thing. Let's do it. Here we go.

So 35 year old Peter Warner is the youngest son of one of Australia's most successful businessmen, Arthur Warner. Arthur heads a company called Electronics Industries in Victoria, Australia. They manufacture electronics, everything from radios to TVs to washers and dryers. So like any type of industry, Arthur expects his son to follow in his footsteps, but Peter doesn't want to. So when he's 17, Peter runs away to sail around the world. He travels to Shanghai, Stockholm, Hong Kong, all over the place.

When he comes home five years later, he is a Swedish credential certifying him as a shipping captain, but Daddy Arthur is not impressed. So he finally convinces Peter to settle down and come work for him at Electronics Industries. But Peter's love for sailing remains strong in his heart. So he buys himself a fishing fleet and he keeps it docked in Tasmania and he goes sailing any chance that he gets. So years later on September 11th, 1966, Peter and his crew are sailing on his boat and the name of his boat is the Just David.

It's not even true. He's got people on the boat. It's a lot. First of all, it's a lie. And second of all, it's not a sexy play on words, which is what we're used to here in America. It's just David. So they're in the Tasman Sea, which stretches between Australia and New Zealand up to Fiji

and Tonga. So that's the kind of the area we're in, which is I looked at this map so many times, but I absolutely know that I'm going to be hearing from Australian and Kiwi murdering those who tell me what I did wrong and, oh my God, these pronunciations. I have a pronunciation list right now. Wow. But it's basically this big open sea east, I want to say. East of Australia.

OK. It's just me, you, and Stephen here. OK. OK. And there's no judgment. There's no judgment here. OK. Can we take a sacred pause?

Maybe just stretch your paw out. She's like, OK, this is a sacred pause. OK. So they're testing out some fishing equipment. When through his binoculars, Peter spots something interesting. About five or six miles away, he sees a tall land mass jutting out of the water. And it's the island of Ata. So we'll tell you a little bit about Ata.

It's a small volcanic island. The volcano is extinct. And it's about 450 acres and rising to a peak of a little less than 1300 feet. And it sits about 99 miles south, southwest of Tonga's main island of Tonga Tapu. So in Polynesian mythology, Ata, along with another small island called Iowa, are the first two islands that the Maui brothers raised from the ocean floor. So these islands are very hilly. So the Maui brothers stomp on them to try to flatten them.

But it's tiring work. So the next time they raise the main islands of Tonga, they make sure to make them flat. So Tonga's flat, but these islands are very hilly and very like they have high points. So in 1863, the population of the island is about 350 until an Australian-born whaling captain named Thomas James McGrath sails his ship, the Grecian, out to Ata and kidnaps 144 of the islanders to sell them as slaves. So to protect the remaining islanders, the reigning king of Tonga, King George Tupo, evacuates the rest of the islanders, brings them to Iowa and leaves Ata uninhabited.

So since that time, it's the whole island's been empty. So when Peter spots some burnt patches on the green hillside, his curiosity is peaked because it's very rare that a fire would just spontaneously start on a tropical island. So as he's staring at the burnt patches through his binoculars trying to figure out what could have caused them, he sees a naked boy with hair down to his shoulders jump off the cliff and into the sea. And then more boys begin to appear behind him. They all start screaming as the boy in the water begins swimming closer and closer to

Peter's boat. Oh my God. When he finally gets there, he yells up to Peter and his crew in English. My name is Steven. Steven! There are six of us and we reckon we've been here for 15 months. Holy shit. What's it called when it's a gang of boys?

Like a, is it like a murder? A salami? A salami boy. There she is. A bag of corn nuts? What are boys like? A BMX bike? Of boys.

Gang. Perfect. And this is how the unbelievable story of six Tongan boys begins. Okay. In 1865, these boys ranging in age from 13 to 16 are attending a strict Catholic boarding school called St. Andrews College in Tonga's capital of Nukualofa, located on the main island of Tonga Tapu. Okay.

So their names are Sione Fataula. He's 16. Sione is 16. Steven, whose name is Tevita Fatailatu. He's also 16. Steven, 16. David, who is Tevita Fifita Siola'a. He's 13.

And Kolo Fikitoa, he's 16. And Sione Felipe Totao, and his nickname is Mano, and he's 15. And Luke, I know how to pronounce that one, Luke, Veikoso, and he's 15. Great job. Thank you. I did practice these. That's nice. Because it's actually not as hard.

It's just that it's way more syllables than we're used to, but it's actually pretty basic. Okay. So basically, Sione, Steven, David, Kolo, Mano, and Luke. So the boys are bored of school. They yearn for adventure. They're tired of the, like, the strictness. We get it. So they decide to run away together.

They're not sure if they want to go to Fiji, which is 500 miles away, or to New Zealand, which is almost 1500 miles away. And they don't have a boat of their own. But this is what makes them a group of boys. They know a local fisherman named Tanjela Ohila, and they don't like him. So they decide they're going to, quote, unquote, borrow his boat. Yeah, they are. Right?

I don't like him. Let's steal something from him. This guy's a dick. They're taking his boat. Everyone knows. So the only thing the boys pack for this trip are two sacks of bananas, a couple of coconuts, and a small gas-burning stove. And some corn nuts.

And one of those things, a salami that has the skin still on it. That you just eat from, like, a banana. Like your pocket knife. They don't bring a map. They don't bring a compass. They don't bring water. So boys, they just got this kind of idea in their head. Late in the evening in June of 1965, the boys climb aboard Mr. Ohila's 24-foot wailing boat

and they set sail. Thirteen-year-old David, who's the youngest in the group, is the best sailor among them, so they count on his expertise to guide them. So at first, the weather conditions are perfect, the waters calm, the skies are clear, there's a light breeze to carry them out to sea. They journey five miles north, they set anchor, and they spend the rest of the evening fishing. Sweet. When night falls, they all go to sleep.

But in the middle of the night, as they sleep, what happens all the time when you're in a boat out on the ocean? Gilligan's Islands will tell you fucking storms are coming. That's exactly correct, Georgia. Thank you. When winds start to kick up, the waves get rough, and the boys wake up to water crashing on top of them in the dark, like maids and mares. Oh, my God.

Horrifying. So the rope to their anchor snaps, they try to raise the snail. Yes! Epic! Fucking write that down for when it's your five-year anniversary. Raise it. What is your favorite carrot? They try to raise their lucky snail into the air.

Wow. Epic. They try to raise the sail to head back home, but the wind is so strong it immediately tears their sail to shreds. Shit. Yeah, fuck. It's serious. So as the boys try to bail the water off of the boat as fast as they can, the waves

toss the little boat around and destroy the rudder in the process. So after a few hours, the conditions finally calmed down, but now the boys have no idea where they are, and even if they had packed a compass or a map, it wouldn't have mattered. And with the sail and the rudder gone, they have no way to steer the boat. So they just have to drift along in the open ocean for eight days. Oh. Yeah. They use up their small food supply.

They try and catch fish, but they don't have much luck. And without fresh water, they're forced to use coconut shells to catch rainwater whenever possible. Oh, that's pretty lucky, because you pay a lot of money in like a tiki bar to drink out of a coconut. So they were kind of set in a lot of ways. I miss the heat bars. So the boys have to restrict themselves to a sip of water in the morning and a sip

of water in the evening. Finally on the eighth night, they spot land in the midst of the vast darkness. It's the island of Ata. So 15 year old Mono volunteers to swim to the rocky shore first. The boys make a circle, say prayers for good luck, and then Mono hops into the dark sea. Now, scary. No, I don't want to. Yeah.

So the boat isn't too far from the shore, but after eight days of starvation and dehydration, Mono has a very, very hard time swimming. The boys, and this is spoiler alert, them telling the story after the fact, when you watch this 60 minutes clip, they tell the story firsthand and they talk about what it was like. And when he talks about them circling up to say the prayer together, he gets teary eyed because it was like, they were happy to see land, but who knows what's going to happen. So the boys anxiously watch as he swims as hard as he can to the rocky shore.

Mono would later recall, when I reach the shore, I try to stand up, but when I stand up, the whole world is spinning. So I laid down and crawl ashore, and when I touch the dry grass, I lie down. So from his position lying on the ground, he calls out to his friends in the dark to let them know that he made it safely to land. Oh my God. So energized by that victory, the boys dive in and swim to shore after Mono. Their boat eventually crashes into the rocks, and they're only able to save an ore and a

piece of the hull. So that first night on the island, they're still incredibly thirsty, so they muster up the energy to hunt for food. They try to fish with the pieces of wood and ore from the boat, and they drink the eggs of seabirds and the seabirds' blood. No. They got, they had to do it. I know.

I'm happy with them, but I don't want them. They had to do it to them. Then they fall asleep under the open sky. So when we talk about this being the real life Lord of the Flies, we're talking about William Golding's novel, The Lord of the Flies, which is about a group of little British school boys who find themselves stranded on an island after a shipwreck, I believe, and the train. I'm sure I read it, but I don't remember anything of it.

The strain of survival and the lack of social guidelines has them at each other's throats by the story's end. It is an amazing story, and it's taught in schools everywhere. It has been for years. But in this real life version, Mano, David, Sione, Steven, Luke, and Colo make a pact never to quarrel. Instead they lean on the traditions of their tribe because they're all from Tonga to keep morale high.

They start and end every day with a prayer and a song, and then they set out to explore the island for resources. They know they have to work hard to survive and that they have to stick together. So they plant a little garden to grow their own food and find some hollow tree trunks to collect and store rainwater. Oh, my God. Initially the bulk of their food comes from whatever they can catch fishing, catching seabirds, and eating their eggs, eggs, and foraging for coconuts.

So basically they were keto, so stupid. But when they start exploring the higher reaches of the island, the boys find the old volcano crater where the Tongans who lived there a century before had made their homes. They find machetes, they find fertile soil to grow taro and bananas, and to their surprise, they find a thriving chicken population that were left behind when the last Tongans on the island were evacuated. They build a pen for the chickens, then there's pictures of this too. And they make a gym out of like rocks and branches and stuff that's around.

So they have like barbells where they're lifting like heavy things. Yeah. But I got to say real quick, those poor motherfucking chickens, they thought they had it fucking made. Oh, they were like free range with a volcano. Imagine the pecking order and that chicken thing and it got all fucked up when these boys showed up. There is like, bye, first of all, we kill this main rooster, you're out, you do nothing.

They also build a badminton court. Yeah. Yeah. Get yourself some extracurricular activities, it's not just about survival, it's about thriving. And your sanity will thank you for it. Yeah. They became badminton influencers.

Stop it. I didn't say it, so that doesn't go in my quota. Steven, don't mark that on my quota. Yeah, I only have like three so far. Yeah. I'm keeping track. Thank you. Thank you.

So Colo, who is the musician of the group, uses driftwood, half a coconut shell and some steel wires from the boat wreckage to build a makeshift guitar. Oh my God. And he uses it, right? He uses it to play their morning and evening songs. So they get fitness in there, they get music and the arts in there. They do it all. If they can do it, how come our fucking school system can't figure it out?

Because we always cut funding to schools and education. We always cut funding to schools and education because those are the people that they're too busy to fight it and that has to stop. Yeah. And let's get a good, nutritious meals in at school. Okay. Okay. That's our other political podcast about the education system.

Yeah. Then I just turned the microphone over to my sister who was like, let's do it. Yeah. Working together in teams of two, the boys draw up a rigid schedule for their various chores. Gardening, hunting, fishing, and most importantly, maintaining the fire signal that burns all day and night on the edge of their shore. So they're on it, like the most important thing.

They're like, this is great, but just in case we can get saved, let's give it a shot. Yeah. I love badminton and everything, but we got to get out of here. So the fictional boys and the Lord of the Flies ultimately let their fire die out, which I think is probably supposed to be symbolic in some way, but our Tongan boys on Ata keep the fire signal burning for the entire 15 months that they're on the island. But as impressive as their survival skills are, life on the island is far from ideal. When arguments would erupt and how could they not, the boys agree to a solution.

Whatever was involved in the argument would go to opposite sides of the island. Go to your corner of the island to take a time out. So they invented that. And then they'd come back together with clear heads, resolve the issue, and move on. We should all have a metaphoric island that we can retreat to, kick some sand, punch some waves. But then be like, I don't like it over here, I want to play badminton with my friends. I'm sorry.

But arguments aren't the only trouble that they face. Ata's terrain is steep and treacherous, making it difficult to navigate at times. So you'll see in the 60 minutes segment, they, and we'll talk about it later, but they end up going back with a documentary crew just to show how they did it. Oh my God. And you can see they were scaling the sheer cliff faces. It's crazy, like what they did and how, because they're all really, they're all really strong. They're, you know, young.

They can do it. Yeah. Okay. But one day while climbing up the side of the cliff, Steven slips and falls and he breaks his leg. So without proper medical attention, this injury could have been devastating, but the other boys managed to climb down to where Steven has landed and, and like basically lift him up the cliff and they reset his leg using sticks and leaves.

And then while he is healing, the other boys pick up the slack on the work that Steven would ordinarily be doing. And the best part about it is they give him shit the entire time they have to do his work. At one point, at one point, see on a jokes around saying, Oh, don't worry, we'll do your work while you lie there like King. This is a classic joke. Don't worry. We'll do your work while you lie there.

Like King Taufa, a how to poo, which is classic King, right? That's such a good slam vicious burn. Steven eventually makes a full recovery. He's like, fuck you guys. Watch me. Yeah. Watch me. And life continues like this for the boys for months and months and months.

And at one point, desperate to get home, they try to build a raft out of logs. But when they take it out onto the water, they're only able to sail for about a mile before it falls apart. This winds up being good luck because the boys were convinced they were in Samoa, which is north of Tonga. So they were heading south, but in reality, they were already south of Tonga. So they would have just been down into. I don't know what, because I don't know anything about our globe.

I can tell you, it would have been somewhere different and it would have been somewhere with perhaps penguins like they maybe would have gotten to the South Pole. Okay. They're down. They're way down there. Steven's shaking his head. Yes. And he probably knows a lot.

He has a geography podcast, right? No, but I'm looking at a globe right now in front of me and a map of Antarctica as well too that I have. Thank you. They would have eventually gotten there all cold with no shirts on. Okay. So they go back to taking turns, tending to their fire signal and watching the horizon for any approaching ships.

And on four occasions, ships would appear in what the boys hope will be shouting distance. They fan the flames of the fire. They shout at the top of their lungs each time and each time the ships just sail on by. Like just once is bad enough. Just once is bad enough, but Jesus. That's hard. But they keep the fire burning until after 15 long months on September 11th, 1966. That's when Peter Warner's fishing boat, the Just David, it makes it closer than any boat

that they've ever seen so far. Think of it. If that guy hadn't like hated his dad and had been like, fuck you, dad. I'm not going to be in a business. And like taking off with the stupidly named boat. What would have happened? Yeah. It would have been bad.

Yeah. Mano later describes the sensation of spotting the boat by saying, quote, I could not explain how we feel. All of us, we are full of tears, happy and like we walk through to heaven. But on the boat, Peter and his crew are frightened by the boys' sudden appearance. Mano told a reporter, because we were all naked, long hair, Mr. Warner did not put the ladder down because they were all scared about us. And because Peter Warner knew that sometimes criminals in the islands are exiled to remote

places as punishment, the crew thought perhaps Mano and the boys were thieves or worse trying to escape their punishment. Luckily for the boys, they all knew English and they were able to communicate exactly who they were. So Peter Warner lets them on board the Just David and the boys explained they've been stranded for 15 months. Still skeptical, Peter tests them a bit to make sure they're telling the truth. Mano remembers.

He gave us a few questions. He gave us a few photos from Tonga. He showed us the photo of our queen and we said, yes, that's our queen, Queen Salot. And finally convinced Peter radios into Nukul alofa to report that he's found the boys. After 20 minutes, a very tearful operator responds, you found them. These boys have been given up for dead. Funerals have been held. If it's them, it's a miracle.

Oh, wow. That's amazing. So right. So with that confirmation, Peter and his crew steer the fishing boats toward Nukul alofa, bringing the boys back to Tonga after being stranded and presumed dead for a year and a half. But here's a big twist. As soon as they dock, police board the boat and arrest all six boys for stealing the whaling

ship. Guys, statute of limitations and punishment served, I feel like, can we please? So it turns out the owner never got over his ship being stolen. And when he heard that the boys were found safe, he told the police he wanted to press charges. So the boys were right. He was a complete prick. Yeah.

He just, yeah. It's proven right there. So so Peter Warner's pissed. He knows the survival story is extraordinary. So he calls Channel seven in Sydney and he promises to grant the channel the story rights within Australia while maintaining global rights for himself because he's a businessman. And then he pays Mr. O'Hillia, the fisherman whose boat it was, 150 pounds for the stolen boat.

And then he gets the boys out of jail on the condition that they cooperate with the documentary crew that Channel seven Sydney wants to make. Of course. He's, he's his father after all. Yes. He's a businessman. They all happily agree and walk free. So now with a camera crew in tow, Peter takes the boys back home to Ha Afeva, the island

they're from. The entire population of the island is about 900 people. And they all stand along the shore waiting for the boys. So there's actual footage of this. There's actual footage because they came into, they weren't on their island when, when they actually got home, like they're them getting arrested and everything was on Tonga. So when they're brought home to their actual home island, the entire island is waiting and you can watch video of like Mano's mother walks out into the sea to go and grab him

and kiss them. They all thought their sons were dead. It's beautiful. Well, it's crazy that not one of them died. I totally thought you were going to have like, you know, one of them drown or something and they lost their friend, but that, I mean, what amazing story. Right. They stuck together and they, they, they truly, it's a six person survival story.

It's beautiful. Peter Warner is lauded as a hero for rescuing the castaways. And that night, the people of Ha Afeva hold a huge celebratory feast in their honor. Among the other delicacies that are served, they, they all eat piles of Pacific spiny lobster, which Peter Warner falls in love with. He's like, what is this? So days later, when King Taufa, how to pull the fourth reaches out to Peter to thank him for saving the boys and offer him a favor in return.

Peter asks permission to start a business in Tonga, trapping those lobsters. And the King says, yes. So Peter then asks the six boys if they'd like to work for him as the crew of the lobster fishing boat. Oh my God. Which gives them a chance at the adventurous life on the sea that they had always longed for. Stop it.

I'm going to cry. And the boys jump at the chance to work for Peter, right? It's so good. So in 1968, Peter Warner and his family moved to Tonga and they end up living there for the next 30 years. Oh, fuck you, dad. And Peter and Mano work together and they form an especially deep bond and they remain best friends for 50 years.

Stop it. Yeah. So basically when, so when Rutger Bregman stumbled upon the story, it was like on an internet, it was like on a blog where it was a local story that everyone knew about like in Tonga and maybe a little bit in like the surrounding area. Maybe Australia, maybe in New Zealand, but virtually unknown. So he went down there to see if he could find out if anybody was alive. And it turned out Peter Warner had moved back to Australia.

He got out of the lobster business. So he's living in Australia and he's gone from fishing to, he's a nut farmer. And he has basically written this, his life story and this story of how he discovered and rescued these castaways. He has it all written down. He knows all the details and he knows that there's video or film, I should say. And everything. So when Ruter goes down there, he's like, Oh yeah, check it out.

I can tell you this whole story and most of the boys who are now, of course, not just grown men, but kind of older men, they're still alive too to tell the story. It's really, and Peter and Mano remain friends. So later on critics would accuse Peter of exploiting the boy's story for his own personal gain, but Mano adamantly disagrees. He says Peter is quote like a father to him. And then here's this awesome quote that is my favorite quote. I know a lot of people say to me things about Mr. Warner makes a lot of money from our story.

Who cares if no Mr. Warner, we never survive. If no Mr. Warner, we won't be here to tell our story. If Mr. Warner makes some money from it, good luck for him. That's my opinion. I would tell everybody, please shut up. Oh my God, I love him. My hero. My hero.

Sadly, just last month, Mano lost his best friend on April 13th when Peter Warner died after his boat capsized crossing the Bellina Bar of the Richmond River. He was 90 years old. Oh my God. So he lived a big, rich, beautiful life. Died doing what he loved. Yeah. For real.

And in that episode of 60 Minutes, Ruder Bregman tells the interviewer quote, if tens of millions of children still have to read The Lord of the Flies in school today, I think they also deserve to know about this one time in all of world history when real kids shipwrecked on a real island because that's a very different story. And Sione tells the interviewer in 60 Minutes quote, I think the culture where we come from, we are close, really close family. We share everything. We're poor, but we love each other.

And this is a perfect time, I think, in our history to listen to and learn from Mano, Sione, Steven, David, Colo and Luke, and their amazing survival story of teamwork, solidarity, hope and love. And that is the amazing true story of the real life Lord of the Flies. Holy shit. Great job, Karen Kilgariff. Some uplifting, good stuff. And I needed that.

Yeah. Right? I think we all do right now. I'm having a rough time. I'm sure we all are. I mean, yeah, it's such a beautiful story of like coming together and friendship and different cultures and what we can learn from each other and how important that is. And I love that that's so different from Lord of the Flies because they actually in real

life banded together because of their beautiful culture and the way they were raised and how important that is. And that's amazing, Karen, thank you so much for sharing that. Yes, absolutely. Me too. I felt like, well, when I was researching that and stuff, it was just like a certain time where I was like, God damn, it's, you know, we love true crime. You know, this is our interest and this is our fascination, but we do have to float these

stories in and that's why we love a survivor story. And something like this too is like, it's actually just all beautiful. It's a horrible thing they had to go through and really difficult. But ultimately it's the proof that, you know, deep down people are good. People do try to get along. And also I'm going to read, I actually downloaded humankind, a hopeful story, which is Ruder Bregman's story about that and I'm going to listen to it on my way home. So if anybody else wants to read along with me, I think it's a good thing to take in.

Great idea. I think we paused on threatening book clubs for the time being until we can get our shit together. But listen, I mean, I'll just enjoy that. We could just read it and see what we think. I think, I think it's just like nice to know those examples and keep that stuff in mind just as much as we keep in mind, being careful or being safe or be whatever. Let's also, you know, focus on being positive too, which I don't like, but I think it's

a good idea. You don't like, which is why you have to do it because it's like, it's like Mr. Rogers mom, I think said, look for the helpers, right? Sure. Yeah. Well, that's beautiful. Hey, speaking of, maybe we should do some fucking hurrays since we haven't done them in so long and we need them in our lives.

Okay, Karen, you want to go first with your fucking hurray? Sure. Let's see. This one says, after five years in a terrible administrative assistant role, 15 unsuccessful interviews, God, 15, that sucks, and years of being undervalued and underpaid, I just accepted my dream job as an analyst. When the hiring manager called, I assumed the worst. And to hear her say, you are the successful candidate, it was the most amazing feeling

in the world. When I hung up the phone, my dog and fiance danced around me in the living room as I burst into tears from happiness. I had so many days where I felt so defeated, where people treated me less than I deserved. For real, shout out to my fellow admins because that shit is hard. Watching the amount of emails I got from my current workplace about my departure saying, what will we do without you? Everything will fall apart.

We need you. I know. And they are just going to have to figure it out. That's right. That's right, girl. And even during a pandemic, at a company with a hiring freeze, I defied the odds with a lot of hard work and by having the will to continually put myself out there, even after so many failures.

For the first time in a very long time, there's hope for me. Don't be afraid to work hard and follow your dreams, especially when you're disheartened and discouraged. Access DGM, Hillary, Hillary, that is amazing as an ex-admin assistant myself. I want to say you are never valued as well as I kind of sucked at my job. But that's amazing. Those are the people that get taken for granted the most because, yeah, because they make everything run.

So it's just like, oh, of course, of course, those phones are going to get answered. And of course, those copies are going to get made, of course, everything is going to happen exactly the way I want it to. And you get no glory and the pay is shit. So hooray. Hooray for you, Hillary. Yeah. Okay.

This is from Instagram, from Sheena Warrior-Clogger. Okay. My fucking hooray this week. I volunteer at my local elementary school. Nope. That's not what that says. I volunteer at my local cemetery. What the fuck?

Really? Really? Jesus. Elmwood Cemetery in Memphis, cleaning tombstones and helping with events. I pitched a true crime tour to the cemetery staff. Where the fuck did I get elementary school? I don't know. Yeah.

I pitched a true crime tour to the cemetery staff and they loved the idea. So I'm giving a true crime tour at the cemetery in June and it's sold out in two days. Hmm. Sheena, way to go. Elmwood Cemetery in Memphis. You better add some fucking dates to that tour. Yeah. For real?

Sell out tour. That's awesome. That's very cool. Also, what a cool thing to like, you're doing one thing in your job but you also, you're being creative. Yeah. And you get to like go, well, if I like it, maybe a bunch of other people will like it and you know they do.

How cool is that tour group going to be of just fucking raucous, raucous, rad, true crime lovers? High fives. High fives from us while you're there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This one is from peachy233.

Yes, it is. I'm not going to read you the subject line because I think it's good. So I was finishing up my meal prepping and feeling on top of the world as I hadn't burned myself today. While slicing asparagus a little overzealousy, I went right through my thumb across the nail stopping at the bone. Why? Why are you reading us this?

It was sent in and I think it's worth celebrating. Okay, I love it. Thankfully, I stopped when I fell to resist. Oh my God, no. My brother took me to the emergency room. Oh my God. I kept getting strange looks from every person I spoke to in emergency. Then I realized I was wearing my Mickey Mouse pajama pants paired with my MFM Here's the

Thing shirt. Well, right? Well, the doctors admired how I'd managed to butcher myself, took photos of my wound, stitched me up and sent me on my way. Fucking hooray, I didn't need stitches and that I stopped when I did. And here's the thing, fuck everyone, including me and my clumsy ass self. And then the lessons just says, my dad is sending me Kevlar gloves. Oh my God, I love that she had that on at a hospital surrounded by people who were like,

what? Yeah. And also, it's such a terrible cut, but she didn't need stitches. No, so fuck everyone. Thank you for repping us in all the right places. I'm sure a bunch of nursery nose were like, what's up? Oh, which we love. Thank you for the humility of saying fuck everyone, including my, including me.

That makes me laugh so hard. It's a great way to live your life. Okay, my last one's from Emily Rahm, ROHM, it's a little long, but it's good. Fucking hooray, also my fucking hooray today is that I'm 41 years old and this week, two of my lifelong dreams came true. I'm on the original cast album for Ride the Cyclone, the musical, which I really quickly looked up and it says, Ride the Cyclone is a musical with music, lyrics and a book by Jacob Richmond and Brooke Maxwell.

It tells the story of members of St. Cassian High School Chamber Choir of Uranium City, Saskatchewan, who perish on a faulty roller coaster called the Cyclone. Oh, no. That's just interesting. So, and my first solo album, Traveling Show, both dropped on the same day, which wasn't even planned. The director of Ride the Cyclone, Rachel Rockwell, who was also my friend and mentor, died of ovarian cancer before she could see this come true.

But I know she's listening and so proud and also probably has a lot of notes on how both albums could be improved. I miss her every day, but fucking hooray that her hard work is immortalized and made it to number one on the Canadian charts as soon as it was released. Wow. Thank you, MFM, for being there to always tell me, this is terrible. Keep going and SSDGM. Nice.

I know. Where is that from? It's from Emily, Rome, and so Ride the Cyclone and the album Traveling Show. So check those both out. What's up? Congratulations, Emily. It's a big deal. Yeah.

Yeah, that's great. Very awesome. So cool. I want to see that musical. I know. What a twisty tourney. Interesting thing. Yeah.

That's really good. Yeah. That was a delightful show. Yeah. I really enjoyed that. It feels like uplifting for once. Yeah. Imagine.

Imagine that. This is what the positive podcasts feel like. That's right. So congratulations. They don't even need fucking arrays because that's all their podcast is. Again, thank you, Steven, for all your hard work and patience and kindness and happy fifth anniversary. Appreciate you.

Thank you. Also, everybody needs to know Steven got rid of his mustache. I know. We're saying that. There were all these like, we love your best dash, Steven, in the comments, so we couldn't read them because it's not true. It's just for the week. It's just for the week.

It's just a nice reset. Yeah. You're the ox. It's like when you shave your head and you're like, all right, let's see what grows back. You're having a bare lip boy summer and I think it's going to be amazing. Thank you to our whole team for working so hard for us and thank you to all our listeners. Yeah. You guys are the ones that make it happen.

Thank you for being here with us and stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Goodbye. Yeah. Yeah. You want a cookie?