My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 28 - I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti

Episode Date: August 4, 2016

This week Karen and Georgia share stories that are new to the other: the Durham Family Murders and the amazing story of Terry Jo Duperrault.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Karen, hi. Hi. Hi. You pointed at me to talk first tonight. I wanted you to do that. I did it last time, trying to make a start. Oh, hey, this... Oh, fuck, I gotta turn my phone up. Sorry. Oh, hey, this is... Hello? Who's this? Show business? It's a telemarketer. Do you mind if I take this? Can I talk about some products with this person? Yeah, I give them all my social security number and everything over the podcast.

Just record it all. Welcome to my favorite murder. This is basically what the podcast is. Yes, it's going to be this for another two and three quarters hours. Yep. Enjoy. Yeah, there you go. Or goodbye. For ever. Can I start out real quick, just by plugging, just for the skippers who skip to the stories. Yes. Don't miss this. Don't miss this. We have new motherfucking shirts. Yes, and they're good. They're good, right? I'm... I'm really... Yes, though. There's something... Well, to me, when you sent me that picture, there's something very visceral about the original logo as a shirt. Yeah. Like it makes me feel official. It's so official, and I can't wait to see someone. I'm still waiting

to run into someone in the wild, like someone I don't know, wearing one of our old shirts. Well, that just happened to me. Shut up. Walking into your apartment, and Stephen has our shirt on. Yeah, yeah. I was dressed appropriately. He was. We appreciate it. We don't let anyone in our house unless they're wearing mine or Vince's podcast shirt. That's smart. As a couple, that's a good decision. Real dicks. Yeah. But teespring.com slash my favorite murder. It's like a run. It's going... You can buy it till the 23rd, and that's when they get sent out. The 23rd of August. Of August. Okay. Thank you. So, and then if that goes well, we'll just extend it and then do new prints and new designs and stuff. Awesome. I'm going to go from there,

but I want to test this. They have a men's shirt and a woman's shirt and a v-neck shirt and a fricking hoodie. A hoodie. I'm getting one of those. It's pretty sweet. Is it obnoxious to wear your own podcast sweatshirt? T-shirt. Yes. Hoodie. No. No. It's like when you get it, when you're working on a movie and you get the show, the movie logo hat. That's right. And once it wraps, you can wear it. Should we also get director's chairs? Do you think? Definitely. Should we get baseball jacket? Baseball jacket's directors. You can get... I was looking to like try to get mugs and stuff. You can get like, we can get like serving trays with the logo on it. You can get so much weird shit. You know, Dave, Anthony from the doll-up says that the thing they sell the most are posters.

Yeah. I gotta do that. Yeah. Posters and we can do shot glasses too, which I feel like, I mean, there's got to be a lot of college kids listening, right? I would hope. What are they doing with their time? I mean, studying. Please. Look at us. We didn't go to college. I mean, we didn't graduate and look at us now. I mean, I tried, but it sucked. I gave it a shot. It was weird and uncomfortable. Oh, I hated it. I really didn't like it. It was triggering for me, because I hated high school so much, but it just felt like high school. Mine felt like the opposite of high school, because I went to a tiny high school and then I tried to go to Sac State, which was like going to... Oh my gosh, huge. A whole other city as a school.

And I just felt lost and empty and alone. Yeah. Community college felt like... Oh, God. It felt like I was going backwards in time because my school was kind of nice. And then suddenly it was like this terrible old school that was so sad. Did it have those desks where the chair and the desk are connected? I can't... There's something so depressing about those desks. Because you can't move in or out and your butt hurts and it's just... And it's like a little clamp on you. Yeah. It's a school clamp. It's a little prison cell. So look at us now. Yeah. Look at us free, sticking our legs wherever we want up sideways. Anywhere. In our director's chairs. Quit school, everybody. That's the one message we have for the children this week.

Please quit school. What are you? You want my housekeeping? Yeah. Because I have a couple things. Oh, look at you. First of all, we know now for a fact that at LA PodFest, we are going to be there on Saturday, September 24th from 9 to 11 in the ballroom. That's our show and our time. So if you're going to go or you wanted to know that specific news, but you can also live stream for a certain amount. I'm not sure what it is. You can watch the whole thing from the comfort of your home live. That's pretty cool. So go on to lapodfest.com and all that information is there for you. They have a lot of great podcasts there this year. I know. It seems like that's a pretty sweet slot. Am I wrong? I think so, but because ballroom seems to usually

be a good thing. Yeah. But if it's just like, it's really this, like, that's what they call the janitor's closet. Also, what are we going to do for two hours? No, I don't know. We have to make up that dance now. Oh my God. We have to do so much random stuff. What are we going to do for two hours? I don't know. We might need to get a guest. We're definitely going to get some guests to maybe like, you know, people who are at the podcast with their podcasts can tell some hometown stories. Maybe we'll get some from the audience. Yeah, we'll definitely ask the audience if they have any, but we'll have a porn to like, if you guys are talking too long, we'll just get off the I feel like what we don't understand is that the average person doesn't really want to talk in public

at all. So talking too long is rarely the problem. But attention. Um, yeah. But I think people like more a face to face attention. Okay. I mean, that's my theory. Okay. Because I could literally talk forever in a large group of people and be doing badly and still want to do it. It doesn't make sense. That was my first piece of housekeeping. The other one was the live dollop is August 16th at Meltdown. I think they're sold out, but they do stand by there. Yeah. So if you have some burning desire, if this is some great, uh, Voltron combo for you, then please, please try to come. I don't know if that's a good thing to encourage people to do. And then I just wanted to say to you, oh my gosh, did you know Burke Ramsey is going to be on Dr. Phil in September? I know. And I've

been waiting to freak out with me for you. Yeah. Cause I've been seeing that. I'm like, whatever, whatever. Even Vince was like, did you see that? And I'm like, yeah, whatever. But I've been waiting to talk to you about it. I love that the day it was announced, I think I must have had six or seven people tweet at me and are the, my favorite murder Twitter. We had like 25 people Instagram too. Like people, we have an Instagram account and people will be like commenting on a shirt post to like, did you see this? So here's what I think is going to happen. One of two things, either it's going to be the most boring, basic thing. He thinks an intruder did it, or he's totally going to just go ballistic and say it was his mom. I guess, I'm guessing it's

not the latter, but how cool would that be? It'd be amazing. I did see one picture in one of the articles that got sent and they're walking in an orchard, probably a bad sign. Cause that means they're two besties. No, they always do the walk and talk though. Oh yeah. The walk and talk, whenever there's like an interview, that's just a thing, a walk and talk, but you think an orchard is a bad sign. I mean, it just looked too peaceful and chummy to me. You're not going to be like, and then she hit her over the head in an orchard. You're not going to say that in an orchard. Yeah. I don't, who knows, but here's what I will say and I'm not going to name any names. I've got an inside source. I'm going to find out from my inside source if it's already been taped, if it's

a taping live in the studio, like if, if the clips we've already seen are just a pre-tape that they're letting out footage of or whatever. Fuck. Because what if we went to the live taping of that? No, stop it. Oh my God. I didn't even think that's what you meant. Wait, what? Would you want to do that? I'm going to find out from my inside source. I didn't even know that's what you meant. I thought you were going to like find out what he was saying, but that's, I would go. No, no. Don't you want to be there? Yes. Because here's the thing I do trust in Dr. Phil is, I just got the picture in my head. Did you ever see the Dr. Phil that was on the Muppet Sesame Street where they did a Dr. Phil and the Muppet looked exactly like him? No, I love it.

That just flashed on my head and I kind of went away for a second. Sorry. I do trust that Dr. Phil doesn't give a fuck. So he will like confront like a lunatic. Like it's not like I'm going back on what I just said about the chummy. Right. Because now that I think about it, Dr. Phil just all be like, why, why do you still live with your boyfriend who's a pedophile? You know what I mean? He doesn't care. Burke Ramsey lives with a boyfriend. No, no, no. So yeah, he definitely asks the hard questions and kind of fucking needles them until they like, they get nervous and then the real shit comes out. So I think he's better than like a Barbara Walters because she's super soft for sure on people. I agree. I can't wait. I'm totally going to watch it, but I'm like

everything in life, keeping my expectations low. If we somehow get tickets to be in the studio audience, I will lose. Should we wear matching outfits? And should they be our t-shirts? Yes. Yes. Yes. A thousand times. Yes. Please. Should we dress like super weird, not twin sisters and freak people out? Get our hair cut. Yes. Everything. Should I get a tiny bob? That was my nineties hair forever. I want to say we should dress like pageant girls, but that seems in bad taste to say right now. It does seem like that. So I'm not saying it. It's fucking huge. The huge tear trophy. Oh, they would kick us out. We were going to arrest it for bad taste. We do. Like that's like an intense drag queen move is to like dress up as Jomini. Totally.

Well, sometimes when I wear like vintage dresses to events and shit, I feel like a little pageanty. Yes. So I'm in. I can do it. And I have no tits, just like a fucking five year old. So I can do this. Excuse me. I should not have said any of this. Oh my God. Going to hell. It's okay. This is a private podcast. Okay. So that's then here's part two, which a lot of people know because a lot of people also tweeted us this information. Okay. Is that Ingmar Guadmique, who is the guy that was accused of murdering Shonda, Shonda Lee, is going to get released from prison after six years because the prosecutors are dropping all charges because based on recent, unforeseen developments that were investigated

over the past week. What? I am. I'm never speechless, but I'm speechless about this. That's insane because the whatever they found, whatever this investigation is, the idea that it got to the point where it gets him out of jail entirely, totally has to be something incredibly definitive. Didn't he also kill two? Is any suspected of or did kill? Yeah. Rock and roll. Didn't. Isn't he a suspected of or killed two other people? He did. Now look, I'm not celebrating his release because he did attack women in that park. That's the reason he was arrested, but he attacked women with the intent,

I believe, to rape them if not raping them. But they're, I think, so basically he was the perfect person to arrest for her murder. It's just that moral dilemma of like this setting him free, just going to fuck up the world even more. I mean, he's, I know you can't hold someone for something they weren't charged for, but I hate it. And I want to know what the, I want to know what the evidence is so I can know if I agree or not, but they're not telling us. You're right. It's not exciting he's getting out of jail because obviously he can't handle himself around women, parks or screwdrivers. Sexual predator. Yeah. He's no good. And I'm

sure jail helped him with that. But what I, I'm just stoked that they found something, they were still looking. Yeah. And they found something so definitive. That means we're going to find out about it within the next month. It can't just be a witness because it's been, what, 10 years and witness, eyewitness testimony. So it can't be witnesses. Don't get people out of jail. I don't think it can't just also, it can't just be DNA because finding a hair on the body doesn't mean anything, you know, unless it's can be linked. What did they find? What did they find? What did they find? What? Because she wasn't, she's, isn't, wasn't she skeletal remains when they found her? I can't remember. People talk to me about these cases that we talk about on here.

And I have almost no memory of talking about them. No, I have to re listen to episodes. I've gone like, I should do this murder and then like, did I do this? I thought of that so many times. There was one that I wanted to ask you if I've done because I totally forgot. And they mean the world to us listeners. What a wonderful, important things. We love it. I mean, I forget my own name. I almost did one of yours. I was looking up today and I was like, I can't find which one. It was a, maybe your first, no, not your first, because your first was Martha Moxley, right? No, my first was Jean Benet. Okay. It was an early one that was a little more obscure and right. I saw it and I went, that's so good. I'm like, the reason you think that is because

George, what if you just did it and then did it better? And then said, up your game, girl. Yeah. That's right. Get it together. It's a contest within a, um, I started listening. Like, I want to say just for research purposes and just for like quality control, but started, I listened to episode one from the beginning, but it's really just because I'm fucking full of myself and wanted to hear how funny we are. And I was laughing out. I was here. This is like, describes me in a nutshell. I was shopping for vintage clothing, listening to my own podcast and laughing out loud. Do you think you were laughing really loud and didn't know it because you had earbuds in? I was, no, because I'm really aware that, but I was, I was laughing out loud accidentally,

like I couldn't help it. What is, oh God, you're such a dick, but it's, no, I think it's very brave of you to admit this. I re-listen to episodes a lot because it's a really, it's fun to do. It's, I don't know. It's fun to do. It is. It is. And it's like, oh shit. I think you, when I text each other on a regular basis, oh, that was good. That was actually good. Sometimes we leave this apartment and I'm like, we shouldn't, we shouldn't do this anymore. Yeah. Wait, what? Wait, sorry, what? Please, sorry, that's not true. Um, any more housekeeping? That is it for me. Oh, just people have asked a couple of times this week, the hometown murder email is my favorite murder at gmail.com. Couldn't be easier. Couldn't be easier. That's where you

send them. If you don't want to or can't get on, people still say they can't get on the Facebook page. I'm not sure why, but if you don't want to go that route, just go straight to our gmail. It's called, it's at my favorite murder. Yep. Easy. Yep. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong and on my new podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths, and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham

and the newly arrested Stockton Serial Killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia, and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Are you first this week? You're first. Are you first? I think, yeah, you did. What's your face last week, and I think you went first? Plus, I don't care who goes first. Honestly, at this moment, I have absolutely no idea what happened last week. Okay. You did a little baby Karen, didn't you? Mary Bell? Yeah.

So, last week? I don't know. I honestly don't know. What's that? No, last week was hometown murder. What is wrong with us? Is there a gas leak in my apartment? We can't be that stuck up, if we can't remember exactly what we did. I don't think it's us being stuck up. I think it's, we have terrible memories. Yeah. I think there's a gas leak in my apartment. Probably. I definitely have a terrible memory. It is you. So, do you want me to go first? You want to go first? You go first. Okay. I'm excited about this one because it's fucked up, and I also really like finding ones that you don't know, and I didn't know. I found one that I didn't know purposely. Where'd you find it Reddit? I might have found like a link on the Facebook page, as you do, and then

just went crazy. Okay. Has someone posted a link that has all these Reddit links on it? There is a post with a bunch of Reddit links that I was looking through today and loved it. It was so great. Well, I did what I always do, and I go into the hometown. I go into our email and look up and like type to find if anyone has ever emailed us about it, just so I can add that information in, and no one has ever emailed us about this. Oh, that's smart. I think that's where I found it. Okay. This is the Durham Family Murders. Durham Family. Durham. Okay. All right. I'm going to start with the murders. So, on February 3, 1972, is a stormy, snowy night in Boone, North Carolina, and the bodies of Bryce Durham, 51, his wife, Virginia, 44,

and their son, Bobby Joe, who was 18, were found crowded side by side, leaning across and into a filled bathtub with their heads under the water submerged. There's a fucking photo. No. The autopsy established that though, rope burns were evident on the necks of all three of the family members, the father and son were alive when their heads were forced under water. Wow. This really just kicked it off, didn't it? I don't know why I started with the fucked up part, but here we are. Well, no, no, it's, I mean, look, you got to hook them in. Because the rest of the story I find, I find amazing and you'll see why. Yeah. So, Virginia had been strangled to death before being plunged headfirst into the tub,

but for some reason they still put her in there or whoever it was. The bodies of Bryce and Virginia also exhibited blunt force trauma. Bryce had a skull fracture and Virginia's nose had been bloodied before her death and none of the corpse's more defensive clones. So then I wrote, who done it? Okay, Angela Lansbury. Just typing away in your typewriter. Who done it? Who could it be? So Bryce, the father, owned a local successful car dealership and Bobby Joe was a college student nearby. The Durham's, all three of them came home together from the car dealership and it was a crazy stormy night. It was super snowy. It was like getting worse and worse. And a neighbor noted, saw that they came home around 9 p.m. So cut to 10 p.m. I wrote.

In case I forget. Yep. Allegedly the son, okay, so there's another kid. There's a daughter, Ginny Durham Hall. She was 19 and she lived with her husband Troy Hall a little ways away in a trailer. So allegedly the son-in-law Troy arrived home with a trailer where he met Ginny and he claimed he spent the entire day at the library from like 5 p.m. till he got home. He says he came home to watch the Winter Olympics and they turned the TV on at 10 o'clock and then the TV was on the fritz. So they put on music instead, they say. Then around 10.15 he answers a call at the, their home. He says that the call was from Virginia, his mother-in-law, and that she was whispering that three men were assaulting the family and then the line abruptly went dead.

Mm-hmm. He claimed he tried to call back the home, but it was busy, but it was busy. So he asked his wife, would your mom play a trick on us? And they kind of thought it was a prank, which is a real fucking funny prank. So worried they decided to check in on the family, didn't call the cops. Their car wouldn't start, even though he had only been in it like 15 to 20 minutes before. And they asked the neighbor, Cecil Smart to drive them. Cecil Small is what I meant. Cecil Small. Small, who's now deceased, was a private investigator and he drove the couple out to the house. Side note, Cecil was also supposedly at the scene of the Kennedy assassination. What? According to him, he was passing by the end of the motorcade and he saw a Hispanic man

in the crowd with a poorly concealed, scoped rifle. He was driven off course by the motorcade and came to an unfamiliar area. So he pulled over in front of the school book depository to ask for directions. And a pastor by was heading in the very same direction that he intended to travel. And thus offered the calm, neatly dressed stranger arrived. And this man, Cecil avowed to his dying day was Lee Harvey Oswald. Cecil, the liar. Cecil's. So you're telling me, Cecil, Small, that you not only saw the shooter of President Kennedy, a different person, but then you also met Lee Harvey Oswald. But you can also prove that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't do it. Didn't do it. Yeah. And now that I'm thinking about it. And you're blaming a Hispanic

man. Right. Okay. I just put this together and I wasn't going to add this in because I think it's in poor taste. But Troy says that Virginia says that three black men black men were attacking her. And I mean, I'm sorry, but there is a certain from like 1969, but beef and before that's all anyone ever said. Yeah, I think from the 80s. Yeah, it's now you blame it on people do that all the time. Yeah. So that I'm kind of putting those things together now. So they get to the home almost an hour after the panicked car, but they couldn't get up the hill to the home because of the snow. So they left Ginny in the car and they said, stay here, we're going to run up there. And supposedly they thought three men were in the house, maybe not anymore attacking,

and they left her in the car at the bottom of the hill. That makes no sense. No, right? No. Also, I don't like three men that that's rare, that that's the actual situation. Right. But how would three people, two of him were like able bodied men able to be overpowered without any defensive loans? It couldn't have been one person unless you know, some people just comply when there's a gun in their face. Yes, a lot of people do. Yeah, even though it's the smart thing to do. Right. All right. So they get up the hill, they get to the house, they enter the home through a broken garage door where they found the place ransacked and the water was still running in the tub that was full of the family. They got, they, they skedaddled, I said, which I spelled right,

which is weird, and jumped into the car intending to drive off, still not having called the police. The car was stuck. So they made it to a neighbors and they finally called the police. So police suggested the ransacked house seemed like a stage robbery, which I'm wondering, like you hear that all the time. Are they, I want to know if they're ever wrong about that. That it really was ransacked in sincerity. I feel like there can't be that much, that huge of a difference between a ransacked because it's being burglarized. I think when people burgle, this is just me talking off the top of my head. I want to know your opinion. Okay. First of all, I want to officially change my old opinion too. I don't

know why I said 1969 and below when racism is such a humongous problem in this country. It came. I don't know. But I'll go ahead to again freely give my opinion. When people burglars a house, they're looking for valuables and they know where people hide valuables. Good, good burglars want to get in and get out. They don't want to wreck people's houses. They don't go through every single drawer because they know that people hide. I mean, there have been studies about it where it's like people hide their stuff in a sock drawer. People hide their stuff in a freezer. People hide their safes behind pictures. So now everyone knows where you hide your stuff. That's right. Come to your house. My safe is behind my picture. So cutting open a couch or when things are overly ruined,

I think is when cops are like furniture thrown. Yes, it doesn't need to be because there's photos of the house that's ransacked and it's like there's an there's an Ottoman like thrown onto the couch. Yeah. That there's no reason I've done that. Right. And also you're just taking extra time as the burglar. That could be time where the cops could be on their way. Why would you stand around throwing shit? Well, here's the fucked up thing about this that proves they're probably right is that there was an envelope full of cash sitting like out on one of the dining room chairs and in the photo of the crime scene, you can see it. They had brought it home because they couldn't make it to the bank after. So it was just sitting there? So it was just sitting there and wasn't

taken. So there's no need to put the Ottoman on the couch. No, it was a fake. I believe it was a fake ransacking, but I'm just wondering you hear that all the time. Oh, yeah. I wish we could look at photos of I wish like how the 911 call we wanted to do were like we listened to two that are real and one that isn't. That's one I'd be willing to do. Yeah. That wouldn't give you nightmares. That that one I would love to do because who I mean, who really knows, but it would be to understand how detectives and investigators have a sense of things would be fascinating to me. Can any detectives out there please send us some crime scene photos. Don't and don't just sneak them out of the precinct evidence locker where the cocaine is sneak them out, mail them to George's secret

PO box. I mean, I had a little coke in there if you want. It's not a big deal. I won't be mad. Favorite people do it all the time. I'm kidding. Don't do coke. We all think it's bad. Yeah. So okay, I'm speaking for Stephen. Stephen wants the coke. Stephen hates coke. So they say it's seemed like a stage robbery. There was an envelope full of cash and nothing about nothing much value had been taken. And shortly after the car that the germs had at the house, which was from the car dealership was found in an embankment. And it seemed like it had been placed there rather than crashed. And then the back was like a pillowcase full of like some silver, you know, some fucking silver, nothing that like utensils. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So something a Rube robber might take.

Right. So I mean, clearly my clearly the son-in-law. Okay, here's the fucking twist. Okay. 40 years later, it's still unsolved despite all the evidence that clearly points at the son-in-law. But what do they have like motive that the son-in-law, the son-in-law has never been a suspect. Oh, and he's a lawyer now. So all right. Oh, here's what I think happened. I think a genie was a soul inheritor inherited quarter of a million dollars. Oh shit. In the 70s money. Mm-hmm. And that's 25 million in today's dollars. Wow, Karen. Oh my God. If it's numbers, I'm definitely lying. I love those conversions when they're like, this is how much it is in today's money. I know. I just read one today that was like 100,000

in the 70s. Oh shit. Now I don't remember what it was. I believed you. I believed you the way that when I have to ask you about Roman numerals that you could say anything to me and I would believe you. That I knew. That was that I knew. Okay. I'll always tell you what I'm lying. I appreciate that. Okay. So I just think like he hired a hit, some hit man. If a phone call happened, it was the people at the scene saying it's done and Jenny didn't know about it. And so he said that phone call was actually this thing instead. Right. Or the phone call never happened and she was in on it. Do you think the neighbor was in on it that it was Mr. Lucky at the assassination? It sounds, I don't know enough about him, but based on those two little details, yes, the

racist, the blaming someone else, which I don't know is a CIA that killed kind of me, right? I mean, and yeah, his getting involved in it and being a private detective, which I feel like you know more about how to commit a crime. Well, sure. And otherwise, you see it all the time. Yeah. I'll say this, what's suspicious to me that just dawned on me. Why would that woman call her son-in-law instead of the cops and when there are three men in her house? That's a good point. And in addition to that, the family didn't like the son-in-law. They were trying to get her to leave him. Because she was only 19 years old. Yeah. Yeah. So they were trying, they were like against this marriage. Why would she call them? And there's so many instances in this whole

crime that it's like, why weren't the cops called? Wow. Yeah. Starting with her, with the mother, which probably never happened. So that's why the cops never called. Yeah. And then multiple times with the son-in-law and the daughter, born called. Right. So, yeah. Crazy. And then, da, da, da, da, da. Okay. There's still, there's, there's still looking into it. There's a $40,000 reward offered. And someone said, investigator said, in my opinion, Mrs. Durham never made that phone call. When somebody, when some people come into your house to kill you, they're not going to let you make a phone call. Right. Of course. I speculate. Maybe the call happened, but from a hit man that they hired. And, okay, I also want to give a

shout out to Jodi.com. No, wait, it's called, I did it for Jodi, J-O-D-I-E.com. That is a really cool, like a true crime blog that had a lot of good information. Is a name in reference to Mark David Chapman? Possibly. Tried to kill Reagan for Jodi Foster? Maybe. Wait, no, I'm sorry. Jodi Arias? I've never seen you. What did I, you know, I just, I cook, I could have, I think I got the name wrong. Was it Hinkley? Hinkley. Hinkley of John Hinkley that tried to kill Reagan. Mark David Chapman is the one that killed John Lennon. Yep. And then you just threw it in Jodi Arias in there for fun. Facts, you guys. We're strong on facts. So, yeah. We're passionate about a lot of different names. I did it for Jodi.com. Good little true crime blog.

That's very cool. Had a lot of cool information. And I fucking went all over the place with this. I was so fascinated by it. I just can't believe. Yeah. They did it. They just nothing. But they didn't even, he was never even a suspect. That's weird. It was a small town. Small town. Only unsolved murder. Wow. Yeah. Is he still like, you said he became a lawyer? He's a lawyer. He's still, they're divorced. She won't now, she now won't corroborate the cops anymore. She's like, I gave them all the information I could. Huh. Yeah. Wow. Was that anti-climactic? Do I ask that every time? Yeah, I think you do. I really do. Well, it's always when there's no resolution. I mean, it's always just, it makes me want to ask 95 questions.

Which are the ones I love. I love when there's like, I love them. Good mystery. You know what I was thinking about is that other one that you had that was from Japan or whatever. Yes. Where they killed the family. Totally. I think about that one all the time. Who the fuck was it? What and why? It's enough information that it should have been able to be solved. That drives me crazy. Well, the frustrating thing too is that it's not like, when you're on this side of it and you don't know, you have it in your head that it's going to be some fascinating reveal. Yeah. And it's always like, oh, that guy. That's why, yeah. I mean, that's why, that's why I like cold cases because it, you can imagine that it's, it's more,

it's deeper than it, than just the stupidity of some, they're killing someone. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. All right. Well, you want to hear mine? Absolutely. Well, mine is pretty interesting. I just, I remembered that I read this book called, um, let me see. The Bible? God, I love it. And I'm here to tell you about it too. It's called, um, um, Alone, Orphaned on the Sea, which is what I wanted to call my book, but forget it. Oh, sorry, Orphaned on the Ocean. I can call mine Orphaned on the Sea now. So, um, I got really into for a little while before I ever saw the show I survived, which I cannot get on the lifetime on my Apple TV. I can't get it on my laptop. Oh my gosh. I can't,

it will not let me access, even for money, it won't let me watch old episodes of I survived. And I think that's wrong. And someone needs to do something about it. We need, listen, is it lifetime? Well, it's like lifetime.com. They only have them on their website, I think. You're missing out on a great opportunity for a shout out. Instead, Karen's just disappointed. I'm just mad. Um, but I love all your movies. Anyhow, so I read that I was super in, I got into these stories of survival for a little while in the, I would say mid 90s. Maybe I was having a hard time myself. I can't remember. Um, and I remember reading this book and being fascinated by it. And then the thing that drew me to the book initially

is the, on the cover of the book, there's a picture and it's just the open ocean and then a tiny in the middle, a tiny white raft and a little girl sitting in it. No, is it a photograph? It's a photograph of the person I'm about to tell you about and how she was found losing my mind. Losing my mind. Can I look at the photo? Should I wait? I'm gonna wait. I have the foot. I have the picture on my phone for you. Everyone go look at the Durham family murder bathtub scene and then it's not gruesome, except they're all dead. Oh my God. This little girl alone. Holy shit. All right. So this is the story of Terry Joe Deporeau. Uh, and she was from Green Bay, Wisconsin. When this happened to her, she was 11 years old and, um, her father, Arthur was an optometrist

from, uh, also from Green Bay, obviously, she was from a different area. Um, and Arthur had always dreamed of taking a year off and sailing around like the Bahamas. Um, basically sailing the world with his family. He had been in World War two and he had been in like the tropics. And so he thought that would be amazing, especially it was coming up on winter in, um, Green Bay and yeah, right. And so he, um, he'd always wanted to basically live on a boat for like a year. And so his idea was he's going to take the family down to the Bahamas. Um, they're going to rent a sailboat and try it out for a week, see if the kids actually like it or if he's just full of beans and, uh, and then see, see where their adventure will take them. Okay. So they,

they fly down to, um, Florida and they charter, uh, a two-masted sailboat called the Blue Bell and they hire Captain Julian Harvey, who is a former Air Force fighter pilot, um, and an experienced sailor and they have him capped in a ship and, um, doesn't that seem weird to like be like my whole family and some guy? Yeah. Well, the guy brought his wife, Mary. Okay. Um, so I think they were kind of acting as like the, uh, casual crew. It was a swinger situation. It was super key party. Okay. So because this was also in, uh, oh, this was 1961. Okay. Um, so they sailed out of Florida, um, on November 8th, 1961 and they sailed east toward the island of Bimini. Um, Bimini, Bimini, Bill? Sorry. And, uh, then they went on

to Sandy Point on the Great Elbaco Island and the family spent a week there, um, snorkeling and collecting shells on pink and white beaches. They just had a gorgeous, um, vacation and they had such a good time that Dr. Dupro told the village commissioner, uh, because they had to fill out paperwork to go back to, um, America, uh, that he planned to return before Christmas. So they were super into the sailboating family dream. Cool. Um, so then they left and they set sail for home and that night around 9 p.m. Terry Joe headed downstairs to the sleep, her sleeping quarters in the back of the boat. Her brother and little sister had stayed upstairs in the cockpit with the parents and around 11, she woke up cause she heard her brother yelling daddy help and

then she heard stomping sounds and then it went quiet and she laid in her bunk shaking and confused and not sure what was going on. She's 11. She's 11 years old. Oh my gosh. Okay. So finally she sneaks up to the main cabin and she sees her mother and brother lying in a big pool of blood. Holy shit. So she said the second she saw them, she knew they were dead. So she went past them and snuck up, uh, to the cockpit hatch and she stuck her head out and she saw more blood on the deck and she saw a knife on the ground. So she crawls out of the hatch cause she's trying to find her dad and captain Harvey runs at her and girls get back down there and pushes her down the stairs. Holy shit. So she closes her eyes, runs past her brother and mom and goes back to her bunk

and gets into her, goes back to her cabin and gets back in the bunk and she lays there. She doesn't know what to do. She's obviously probably in shock freaking out. Then she hears sloshing and she looks down and the floor of her sleeping quarters is covered in oily water and she realizes the ship is sinking. Oh my god. So she's afraid to move but she looks up and then suddenly the captain's standing in the doorway staring at her and he's carrying her brother's rifle and he stares at her for a little bit then he just turns and walks away. So she lays in bed, frozen stiff doesn't know what to do, but pretty soon the water's up to her mattress. Oh my god. So she knew she had to get out of there. So she wades through waist deep water

her out of her cabin, out through, or out of her quarters, out through the main cabin. She goes back up on deck and she looks over the side and she sees that the life raft is already in the water and Captain Harvey walks up to her and hands her the rope that connects, connecting the life raft and says, hold on to this, I'll be back in a second. And she's in such shock and fear she drops the rope. And so as he's walking away, he looks and sees that the rope is going in the dinghy starting to float away. So he dives in after it. And he dives in after it. And she watched him swim after the boat and disappear into the night. I have so many questions, go on. I stole that last line directly from the Readers Digest article that I was reading about this

story. I read several articles about it, but Readers Digest was the main one. And I just want to thank them for being an American classic. I miss that. I used to read this when I was a kid. That's all I read. When you went to the bathroom at your aunt's house. I didn't want to say it. That's all about Readers Digest. I'm going to cover to cover. So okay. So it's an 11-year-old girl standing on a sinking boat who's witnessed her family murdered, part of her family murdered. What does she do? Does she cry? Does she cower? No. She remembers that there is a small cork life raft in the cockpit. So she runs and grabs it. And as she does, as she grabs a hold of it, and they don't describe this that much, but she basically runs forward to the front of the boat,

grabs the life raft. And by the time she gets there, the boat is sinking under her feet. So she has just enough time to jump onto it as the boat goes under the water. So she basically went down with the ship and then jumped onto this little cork life raft. So now she's alone at sea in a tiny raft. It's three feet long. I mean, you saw it in that picture. She doesn't fit into it. She couldn't lay down in it. It's in her. It's probably like can hold her legs. So she has a blouse and pants on. She's freezing cold. It's pitch black. There's no moon out. She can't see. So she keeps getting hit with huge waves. And the salt water is getting in her eyes and stinging her eyes. She can't open her eyes. And she's afraid that Captain Harvey

is nearby. Oh my God. So that's then it starts raining. So her first night out in the water, bad news. Okay. Anytime you're lost, you're out at sea. I wouldn't be looking for good news. Although I wonder if but the not salt water that it was raining down was helpful in some way. Like she could drink it or something. Oh, maybe you mean hydration wise. Yeah. For a second, I thought you meant I wonder if if she was in a fresh water. Was she in a fish tank? Was she did she go to Lake Havasu? Okay. So she wakes up wakes up the next morning. The sun comes out. She's not cold anymore. Now of course she's boiling hot. Oh, I've seen Joe versus volcano. I know what it's like. Okay. Yeah. You know what it's like

to be on a raft, but his raft was nice. It's pretty sweet. It's huge. Now that great suitcase. Yeah. Her raft was slowly disintegrated. No. Yes. Sweet baby angel. So she has to hang her legs over the side to float like the plastic rubbery part that has the air in it is the part that's not disintegrating. So she has to sit on the edge and then hang her legs over the side. Then parrotfish come and start biting her legs. What are parrotfish? They sound like dicks. I don't know. It sounds like they start biting her legs. I bet they're the ones that you see in tropical fish tanks. Yeah. They think they're all big, but they're fancy colors in their teeth. Like in shark food. So that's her first day. It sucks. The next day is the best description

I've ever heard. The next day she wakes up, her tongue is swelling in her mouth because of all the salt that she's taking in and no hydration. And then she sees a plane and she's waving. She takes her shirt off and waves and waves and waves this white shirt over her head. It dips down toward her a little bit and then flies away and never comes back. Wait, wait. No. Yeah. That was how she was going to get saved. Nope. So that afternoon, she spots some shape swimming in the water about 30 yards away and she's scared to death because she thinks they're sharks and her foe. When they come closer, it's a pot of porpoises that swim with her. No. For hours and hours. Never. No. Now we all cry at the beauty

of nature. Are you? Are you? This is 100 percent. We're sure. Yes. This is from her. This is her book, A Lone Orphan of the Ocean. What did they, what they, because I know, but like how do I, oh my God. Have you ever seen those specials where they have children that have like brain damage or some kind of disease get into water with a dolphin? They do studies and their brain function improves when they're around dolphins. Dolphins have like a weird fucking children ESP and they know when something's in the water and needs their help. And they're beautiful creatures. Hey, you have to stop killing them. Okay. So. Oh my God. That was amazing. I thought you were serious. I thought you were really crying for a second.

What if I was accusing you personally of killing them? Georgia, please with law, your tuna. All right. Okay. So that night, the sea is totally still. Now that I'm going to admit it to a half lie in this, because I remember this from the book, but I read this book almost 20 years ago. Okay. So who knows what bullshit I've layered on top of this, but I'm pretty sure I remember this. Yeah. That the sea, this one night was still so she could see the stars like down, down to the horizon. And there was bioluminescent algae in the water. So it was all like, she basically said she wasn't that scared until the very end because these cool things kept happening. And that was one of them that she saw like that the whole ocean was glowing green. And then she

could see every single star. This reminds me of James and the giant peach. Yeah. Remember when they were in the ocean on the peach. I fucking love that book. I read that was my favorite book in the whole world. Except for the copy I had, because it was from like 1979 because this one was a child. There was an illustration of James at the beginning that is the saddest picture of any child ever. I tweeted it one time. Oh my God. It's so sad. When his parents got killed by a fucking rhino that escaped from the zoo. Yeah. Hardcore. That's why I always thought my parents were going to die because that was my favorite book. Yes. Because Rob Dahl liked to plant those pretty early and often. He did. Just be prepared to be an orphan just in case. Which I appreciate

to a to a degree. He should have said be prepared to be an orphan of the sea. Yeah. Because that could also happen. Fuck it. Tie it in. Go ahead. So I had to bring it back. That night when she fell asleep she dreamed of she saw her father peacefully drinking a glass of red wine and telling her come on we're leaving. So when she woke up on the third day she was really sore. Her skin was burnt through her clothes. All her joints ached. She had been balancing on the edge of that raft because almost all the bottom was now gone. Yeah. And she started hallucinating. She would see tiny islands with one palm tree on them and then start paddling paddling paddling and then when she'd get to them they would disappear. Oh my God. On the fourth far side

comic. I know. On the fourth day she didn't wake up in the morning. She was losing consciousness. She was close to death. And when she finally did wake up she woke up because she felt a shadow over her. And when she opened her eyes she said she saw a huge whale hanging in the air above her. Wow. But what it actually was was a Greek freighter that miraculously had someone had spotted her on this Greek freighter. And that's the person one of the people one of the sailors on this ship took that picture that I showed you. Holy shit. The second they saw her. So that was her still lost at sea basically. Oh and she didn't even know yet. So she for her the experience for her was a whale was hanging over her and then she was being lifted in the air

and then she was in big strong arms and then she was asleep. And the next thing is she knew she woke up and she was at the hospital in Florida. Big strong arms in a whale and Greek arms so they'd have that real good hair. Yeah. Real good wrist. Shiny. Maybe a pipe. Probably. It smells like it smells like a pipe. He smells like a pipe. He smells like a pipe. He's definitely have a big beard. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. This is just our fantasy. Yeah. This is a different podcast. All right. So she got helicoptered to the hospital in Miami. She was treated for dehydration and severe sunburn. In a week she recovered with no serious injuries. Holy shit. But not so for Captain Julian Harvey. Oh hell no. I was going to call him doctor. So Captain Harvey was rescued the next

day. Oh. By a lookout on an oil tanker that was headed for Puerto Rico. And when they found him he had the dead body of Terry Joe's seven year old sister Renee in the life raft. What? Why? He told the Coast Guard that he had found her in the water and tried to revive her. And so basically but she the the autopsy showed that she'd she drowned. So he the story he told the Coast Guard was that the blue bell was damaged in a squall in the middle of the night. And his wife and the Duperos were injured when the mass and rigging collapsed. He said gas lines in the engine room ruptured and the ship caught fire as it slowly sank. He said he'd managed to launch the dingy and raft and dive overboard. But the tangled rigging had trapped everyone else on board.

The police were totally suspicious but there was nothing to prove otherwise. And then three days later. Oh my god. Terry Joe shows up survived. And when Harvey finds out that she survived he killed himself in his hotel room. Holy shit. So turns out they do some investigating and Harvey had serious financial problems and he had just taken out a life insurance policy on his wife Mary fucking life insurance policies. It's not they need to there needs to be more steps before you can just take out a life insurance policy on your wife. Yeah. Or husband. Yeah. Or children. The police theorized that he had killed his wife from the insurance money but was caught in the act by Arthur Devereux prompting him prompting Harvey to murder him

and the rest of his family. Yeah. It was found later found that Mary had been Harvey's sixth wife. What. And not the first to die while married to him. Come on. He had miraculously survived a car accident that had claimed another wife of his and her mother both his yacht Torbatros which is a terrible fucking name and his powerboat Valiant had both sunk under suspicious circumstances. They had all yielded large insurance settlements. Jesus. Turns out Captain Harvey was kind of a serial killer. Oh my god. Terry Joe was raised in Wisconsin by her aunt. She never talked about the ordeal. Her family told everyone not to bring it up in front of her. So she lived with this for years and years and years. Does that say mentally healthy to you.

It is not mentally healthy. Yeah. It's the worst thing you could do. Talk about your trauma. You have to talk about it. Talk about it to someone who is trained professionally. Someone cool and who's trained. You have to talk about things like yeah. I mean come on. I think people I think these days people know that but this was the 60s. It was Wisconsin. Press it way down deep. This I mean that's you know that's what a lot of families do. My family is very much like don't bring it up. Yeah. We don't want to bother anybody. Right. So she finally went to therapy as an adult and 50 years later she wrote a book with a survival psychologist named Richard Logan called Alone Orphan on the Ocean. Oh my god. And she actually took sodium amethol which I believe

is. Oh true Sam. So that she could remember everything. So she went all the way back. So fucking cool. Yeah. Holy shit. That's our girl Terry Joe Depparo. I want to read that. And she has an eye survived. Of course she does really. Yeah. I want to see that. But I didn't pick this one because I saw it and I survived because I survived doesn't for me doesn't tell you enough. They take all the good ones. They really I mean they do. That is so I have never heard that before. That's a good one right. Very good one. 11 years old. I think you won. Is this a game. I think you won. We can't be a game. Please. Well also if it's a game the people when you know when you have a big captain Captain Harvey is a serial killer reveal. I mean. Yeah. But also a girl

surviving in a boat. That's pretty fucking sweet. It's pretty goddamn cinematic. Can I add that none of the hands of the family in the bathtub were tied behind their back. Where were they tied. They weren't tied. It was when I or like so maybe they weren't conscious from being strangled. Yes they would have to be because there was no defense. There's no defense. There's no fighting but their hands are free. Yeah. But yeah. Yes. That doesn't make sense. No. Okay. I'm not trying to one up you. No. No. Remember that part. Please. Please. But also you said the wife was strangled but the other two had rope burns around their neck. Like they were hung. No. I think they were all strangled. Okay. By oh there's like a

like a some kind of rope that would like that they got at the house. So so it's not like they've brought these weapons with them. Whoever killed them. Right. Right. And this might be a good time to say considering the fact that that guy's a lawyer that everything that we accuse him of is alleged alleged hearsay and not proven speculation gossip. Yeah. Podcasting. Fuck. You're right. Shit. Please don't tell on us. And that was the end of the podcast that they did. And did not. Y'all ladies think you're smart. You think you're funny and smart. Guess what. Is that how he sounds. He's from North Carolina. Right. Yeah. I don't know where that accent. No. I buy it. Well that's some fucked up shit. Yeah. Well go to our Instagram Instagram.

Go to Twitter. My fav murder at Twitter. Facebook page. Fucking hang out with us. Hang out. Oh but the one thing I will say is now we're getting lots of recommendations. If it's on. Let's stop pretending Netflix has a bunch of choices. Yeah. Netflix has like let's say 20 British shows. Yeah. We've seen them all. If it's on Netflix or HBO. The challenge to you is to find a British procedural. I haven't seen good luck. And the person who suggested DCI banks. I laugh in your face. Just kidding. I don't even think that's what they're suggesting. But I mean I've seen I've honestly seen them all. Someone said I've seen them all including Midsummer Midsummer Mysteries which really is like total grandma TV. I've tried to watch that one

too. Oh my god. But it's very grandma. You love that shit man. I do. Sorry that that was just I had to tag that on. No I got it. I appreciate it. It's kind of it's sweet. It's the intentions are sweet. Of course. But also enough. Well just give me some new. Yeah. That's all for sure. Yeah. Well you guys. Thanks for listening. You guys. Oh. I haven't even asked you yet. Yeah. Have I. You're jumping your line. Do you want a cookie. There he goes. Okay. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Bye. Bye.