My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 280 - MFM Guest Host Picks #3: Billy Jensen

Episode Date: June 24, 2021

Throughout the months of June and July, Exactly Right family members will be guest hosting My Favorite Murder! Each week a guest host will pick their favorite stories from Karen and Georgia. Today's episode is hosted by Billy Jensen, co-host of Jensen & Holes: The Murder Squad on Exactly Right. Billy covers the stories of The Dexter Copycat Murder (Episode 163) and the Murder of Bonnie Lee Bakley (Episode 112). See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hi, I'm Billy Jensen. Welcome to My Favorite Murder. I'm guest hosting for Karen in Georgia. I'm the co-host of Jensen and Hull's The Murder Squad with Paul Hulls and Georgia and Karen are not only my friends, but they're my bosses and they make me laugh out loud. And I'm so excited to be guest hosting. I actually went back, I listened to a bunch of episodes and I went back and listened to the first episode and Georgia and it says, I feel like we're going to change lives. She was

joking, but she doesn't realize how true that was, including my life too. So I love MFM and I'm here to present my favorite Georgia story and my favorite Karen story. So we're going to start with my favorite Georgia story. I listened to a bunch. I listened to Honolulu Strangler, Michael Peterson, Jill Dando, Tent Girl. But the one I settled on is The Dexter Murder from episode 163. I love this episode. The story telling is clear. It's concise. Since the subject was a guy making a Star Wars movie, there are Darth Maul and Boba Fett references. Live action role playing or LARPing is described by them as civil war reenactments meets Star Wars. There are references to Bumblebee and Wolverine and dating sites and catfishing. And it's

classic Georgia and Karen because it's Georgia talking about how reckless she was as a teenager in chat rooms, talking to all types of strangers. And her username, by the way, was Georgia1313, which is funny. And then Karen riffing on Mayspace with a great line where she says, why don't you just walk down Melrose and ask everyone you meet, am I good looking? So, but in the end, you know, they get serious about a really horrific sociopath named Mark Twitchel who catfished a man and then lured him to a kill room he created inspired by the TV character Dexter. So here it is, my favorite Georgia story. Now it's your turn. Okay, it's my turn now. We hate murderers. They fucking suck. That's true. Overall, this one is particularly

a douchebag. Okay, so here we go. This is the Dexter copycat killer. Okay, you hear from me? I've, I've heard about this. Okay, we didn't do this, did we? It was in a minisode. Okay, so we didn't do this. We didn't do this, dude. We did it in a minisode. I was going to do it at a live show when we were in Toronto, Toronto, Toronto, Toronto. I did get that message. But it was 30 hours away from Toronto. So I did it. But here we go. Meanwhile, I'm doing them that are like up in the Arctic Circle, never, never even thinking about it. What do they want? Yeah. This guy sucks so fucking bad. Okay. Mark Twitchel is his name. Sure. He's born in Edmonton, Canada on July 4th, 1979. Fourth of July, it means nothing. It's in Canada. It's absolutely meaningless.

Canadians care. They don't know what you're talking about. Right. He graduates from the radio and television program at the Northern Albert Institute of Technology. He fucking wants to be a filmmaker. He, okay, spent several years living in the Midwest, goes back to Canada to pursue a career in filmmaking, which has never been said before. Here come all the Edmonton filmmakers down your throat. That's fucking right. He's obsessed with sci-fi, likes doing cosplay. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But this guy sucks particularly badly. Okay. Dresses up, plays out scenes from his favorite movies called LARPing, right? Yes. Live Action Roleplay. So he's, yeah, basically, there's regular nerds who especially love a certain thing and want to

delve all the way into it. Yes. We relate. We are those nerds. Absolutely. But then there's the nerds that do that, but then they also have a homicidal element to their personality. Right. We don't like them. No. We'll go to your fucking, it's basically like doing a Civil War reenactment. Yes. But a fucking Star Wars. That sounds way more fun than a Civil War reenactment. Here's who it looks like. Picture Adam Devine, the comedian from Workaholics. Who could actually play my younger brother if necessary. Really? Adam Devine, don't you think? I don't know. We never thought about it. Take that part out. Leave it. Leave it. It was Paul Giamatti's younger brother. Is that okay? So it's Paul. Nope. Adam Devine.

Okay. But picture him in a homemade bumblebee costume from fucking Transformers or dressed up as Wolverine with like, you know, fake sideburns at a bar. He's also, this is like, so this is the early 2000s. So he's super into going online, looking for personal relationships because like dating sites and shit, chat rooms, remember those? No. We loved them so much. Yes, we did. The idea of being on that and like just trying to randomly talk to anybody, I would never do that in a million years. I did it constantly. Keep in mind, I was under 20 years old the entire time. I did it. That is a forensic files waiting to happen. Georgia 1313 was my username. Oh shit. That just hit me. I just remember that. Like, do you think that people

were like, hopefully she's 13? Oh God. I didn't even think about that. I just was like, what's a what's a scary number? 13. Great. Oh man. And double down. I didn't really get deep into it, but I did go into a lot of straight edge and fucking rave or chat rooms. Well, that you needed that information. I did. That was stuff like guys, where do we go pick up the egg that then inside has the directions to the warehouse, right? Yes, rave or life. Okay. I was too old. I was just like, it was too old. That's to me, all of the internet when it started like that. And it was all my space and why aren't you my friend on my space type of shit? I was not on any of it. And I would say to people all the time, why don't you just walk down Melrose and ask people,

do you think I'm good looking? Because it's the same fucking thing or smart or deep or anything or interesting. I'm 10 years younger than you. So I was deep into that shit. Yeah. I had a fucking live journal from the very beginning. Yeah, girl. I love that shit. It was my home. He also used, like for his dating picture was a photo of Darth Maul. Oh, honey. Not just Star Wars, but from the reboot, which everyone knows is terrible, right? Don't get mad at me, everyone. Fuck it. I'm not wrong. Well, can I just say he didn't use Jar Jar Banks and maybe that's the number one douche. Oh, you're Oh, no, wait. No, you're right. You're like, hold on. Hold. Okay. Yes. Correct. Well, can I ask a question about this, though? I might not be able to answer it.

Okay. I think you will. Okay. Was he shopping for ladies or men on these dating sites? Ladies. Okay. He was super into ladies and somehow they were into him. Well, because you know why? Because they saw that picture of Darth Maul and they're like, there he is. It's my dream man. Wait, is he Wolverine? He might be Wolverine. Can he transform? Oh my God. The side burns alone. Love. They loved it. So he calls himself a renaissance man. And then I wrote, we call him a chode. Wow. In 2000, he's 21. He meets a woman named Megan online. They fucking fall in love and hit it off as only you could do in the early 2000s and fall in love. It was the best love back then. The best love. Yeah. I did it a couple of times. Yeah. I totally fell for people online.

She thinks he's charming and sweet and smart and they are talking online for fucking months. Totally fucking did it. And Megan, who lives in the States, flies to Edmonton to marry Mark Twitchell. Wait. I had a couple of months of talking. Talking but not meeting in real life. I don't know if they had met, but maybe it probably was for a long weekend if they had. Yeah. No. He's 21. She's 20. They get married. She moves to Edmonton. Okay. From Colorado. Can I just say what I might always, I have a feeling that Mary, maybe she floated a thing of like, I can't fuck you unless we're married. No. She's like, if this guy, did you ever fall in love with a guy online? No. Yeah. If this guy is who he's purporting to be online. Oh my God. And it

hadn't been like outed yet that we that don't trust anyone online, which we all know now. Yes. Oh, I see. This guy's amazing. He checked all her boxes. Yeah. It was like, this was meant to be. Yes. Okay. Yeah. They're like, well, we're in love. You're the person you say you are online. I'm going to get online. Try it. I'm going to join MySpace. I don't care. I'm doing it. Get on there with me. Let's all see who can be. Start from the beginning. Go to Make Out Club, which I did. Yeah. It's in our book, actually. Okay. Oh, pick up our book sometime in May. We don't know when. We don't know. Okay. So she gets married to him. They stay married for four years, but as soon as she moves her, she's like, oh, shit. This isn't the guy I thought he was online. Huh. Really?

Nobody knew. Now the meanest older sister in the world. Oh, really? Oh, really? Deborah? Because you thought you were going to get an M10 and everything was over. Yeah. Just because you spoke to him three times on the phone and the fucking, and you know, there was fucking long distance charges back then too on the phone. Everyone, you don't know there wasn't tweeting and I mean texting. She was like, every time she called him, it was like 10, 10, 20. 10, 21. That's right. You know what we're talking about. She realizes he's a compulsive liar and that he's cheating on her constantly, which is just who he was. He was a fucking sociopathic, narcissistic piece of shit liar. Wow. Just a guy who thinks he's smarter than everyone

and very bright and but yet has but sucks and has huge blind spot. Darth Maul. Okay. He's a real Darth Maul. Yeah. A Canadian one at that. Right. So yet less than a year after their relationship ends, he remarries in 2005 to another woman he's met online. They fucking have a baby and this creep Mark Twitchell starts. He gains a small following among sci-fi fans because he's like cool to them when he directs a movie that he makes using green screen called Star Wars, Secrets of the Rebellion. Oh, he makes his own Star Wars movie. He makes his own Star Wars movie using mostly green screen and that doesn't have the money to have someone do the actual work to make it real. Right. So also you can't make money on someone else's idea. So he would have just

immediately been sued. George Lucas would have had him for dinner. But he was so cocky that he was like, I'm going to make this and this is what's going to get me work. Like they're going to see how great I am when they and he's just as cocky mean. Everyone who worked on the film was like, he was such a fucking asshole. We hated him. Yeah. And the movie has a short cameo by the dude who plays Boba Fett in the in the Star Wars movie, which I was listening to this episode from last podcast on the left. And they're like, well, he's wearing a mask. So who the fuck even you don't need the. I was going to say, is it the actor either way? It doesn't matter. Yeah. That's unprovable. Right. So then he also starts working after that. He does that. He's like,

this is going to make me famous. Then he starts working on a script for a comedy that he calls day players, which is essentially extras. Oh, okay. By our friend Ricky Gervais. Thank you. Which is just about extras. He's not our friend, by the way. I know. He's a Siamese cat. We don't know him. Okay. So he starts making this fucking stupid show. There's a trailer for it online that's basically every dude you've ever dated an improv if they made a fucking short with like their video camera from 2007. No, thank you. And like rift. And then we're like, this is the best part. Let's put it in the trailer. And you had to be like, Oh my god, baby, it's so I'm sorry. I'm talking from experience. No, baby. It's so funny. You're

the best one though. I mean, it's so good. And you're so fun. How do you like think of stuff that quickly? Can I just right now quote my friend Derek Riddle, who is an incredible, incredibly talented Scottish actor who was on the book group with me, one of the funniest people I've ever met, but an amazing actor. And you've actually seen him in a ton of stuff. I can't think off off hand. But one time was we were being driven to set. It was me and Derek Riddle was in the front seat, Jimmy Lance and one other person and those guys were talking and they were just riffing endlessly. And it was just this kind of nonsensical conversation that they were riffing through and from the front seat, I'm not going to be able to do the Scottish accent correctly. But Derek just goes,

Jesus, somebody block. Somebody run through this motherfucking thing and end this shit ruin this somebody's no but this improv improvisation. It does make you it does make you appreciate really fucking good improv when you see it. Yes. After you've seen so many X's bad. I'm sorry. There's a lot about it that everything out there is the majority of most things are bad, but you don't date a person who's doing it. And like a lot of bad things that you don't have to go to their performance of like someone's bad at painting. You don't have to sit and watch them paint for two and a half hours and get drunk. Okay. So he's a fucking lying liar who lies. He quits his job, doesn't tell his wife, does the fucking thing. I'm going to work now. Goodbye.

Which is like such a fucking sociopathic thing to do. But also you get it. It's my favorite. There's something about it that fills me. I become enthralled. It's very similar to Mardi Gras just started and one of it's I believe it's the skin and bones crew, but they started their party at 5 a.m. And when I saw the video on Twitter, it was almost like I was in a float up off the couch. The idea of getting up at 5 a.m. to drink and party and do drums in the street and hang out is like my dream. You know, who else does that is people who are into football, which is a soccer overseas and they'll do that. And I'm like, damn, I wish I could watch that. I wish I cared. Yeah, set your alarm and get up. And you're like,

well, I have to drink because over there it's after five. But I just any anything like that. And and then also this idea that maybe you fucked up, maybe you fucked up so bad, you can't tell anyone. So then you you're putting all this energy into tricking people into believing you didn't fuck up. Yeah, like, but that just shows what a lot like that you I mean, once you get to that place where you can't lie because you've already lied so many fucking or you have to lie because you've like, no, it's I know, I'm just remembering in college after I flunked out of college between the time I told my parents and didn't I would get up every day and run to the mailbox to make sure they didn't get my report card before me. And after after I broke the news, whatever, my dad

goes, yeah, your little mailbox trip didn't work either. Of course, it's like, I've never cared about mail in my life. Yeah. And suddenly I'm getting up and running to the mailbox every day where it's just like, your parents know if they know what you're doing. I think you're stupid to be honest. Quits his job. But he still goes out on Friday nights, pretending he has a job. He has he rents a garage in Edmonton, Southside, which apparently was a bad neighborhood. He read there was like a literal garage that he rented from a couple who didn't speak English. So he's like, great, they won't be able to tell anyone anything. Oh, yeah, that's what he does. And he also starts telling he's trying to get investors in what he's calling his A-list movie,

big budget movie, that he's going to make that has A-list stars that's already have already signed on to the movie. And he's like a great bullshitter. Like Boba Fett will be there. And of course, Darth Maul is going to make it. He fucking talks about Alec Baldwin being like, he's just like, he's lying and he's really good at it. Like a lot of sociopaths are. Yeah. And so people kind of believe him and he ends up getting like 90 grand to fucking make this movie. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of fucking money. Yeah, he's it's these sociopath or whatever psychopath. Right. Where they're the charisma floats it. And I know a lot of us are like, wait, he can get a wife and fucking all this money. Two lives. And like, but he's a liar. But

it's like, well, you have to have follow through. Like if he had put as much effort and fucking time into like what he actually did as he did selling his bullshit, including to like selling it to these women that he's not a piece of shit. Yeah. It maybe this would have been fine. Just how about just don't be a piece of shit a little bit. Right. If that's a choice. Give it a shot. We don't know. Sometimes it's not a choice. Yeah. Try and go to therapy. Okay. So he also spends a lot of time on the internet where he creates fake accounts and he and fake identities and catfish is the shit out of people. So I'm just thinking of every Star Wars character he's pretending to be on the internet. Oh, but that name too. I can't. It's me, R2D2. Great.

Date me. I'm a robot. There you go. And around this time, he starts to become obsessed with the show Dexter. Yeah. Which I've never seen a single fucking episode of. It was good. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yeah, it was really, it was really good because it was like a procedural, but then it was also like science of lambs. And there was a slightly comic element and that actor who plays Dexter that we've talked about a lot on the show. Love him so much. And of course can't remember his name. I went to his house once. That's right. And he was in that series that we loved. Remember when he had that accent? He has the British one. What's his name? Something, Michael, something. Michael C Hall. Michael C Hall. He is so good. He is so good and great to watch. Yes. Also,

John Lithgow was on Dexter. Right. Like it was great. I didn't watch it out of any kind of, I didn't watch TV. I couldn't afford TV at the time and I had a desk job and I couldn't illegally download it to my work computer. That's the only reason I never watched it. If only there was some kind of a, like a Russian hub you could have linked through. I tried once and it was like a little bit like fucked up. And I was like, well, I can get through this with like a little bit of a fucked up screen. And then I was like, I have a headache now. So I just stopped trying. That was the last time I tried. Do you know that I couldn't remember my HBO Go password? So this last season of this soprano's, I just bought it and I told that to my friend Molly

and she was like, you fucking idiot. It's for free. Cause I was like, I just, I just bought it. She's like, it's free. Just sitting there. I can't figure it out. Yeah. Solve your own problems. Can't. Like my therapist used to say, Kim, throw money at the problem. Yeah. That's what I did. Yeah. I just bought it. Yeah. Great. Goodbye. Goodbye. Okay. Okay. So he, of course, if everyone who doesn't know Dexter Morgan, it's this TV show about a forensic blood spatter analyst by day and a serial killer by night, he fucking kills other serial killers, right? Yes. Great premise. We love it. Very satisfying. Very satisfying. It's like finally it's a good psychopath. Child molesters tube. Everyone. Everybody. Great. That's the whole arc of it was the, all the different kinds of bad

guys and he worked in the police department. Love it. Yeah. So he watches all episodes, probably a lot of episodes. Yeah. I don't know how many there are in four days. Whoa. What? Yeah. So he like does the fucking crazy person thing. He binged it. Wait am I a crazy person? That's all I do. Well, no. Yes and no. No. Because you don't then go, well, now I'm going to go kill people. True. Right. Thank you. So he creates a Dexter Morgan persona on his Facebook page. He pretends that he's Dexter Morgan. He actually gets like kind of a following of fans and like communicates with them and he's, he like posts the thing that it's like, you know, Mark, Twitter is like way, way too similar to fucking Dexter Morgan and like

creepy shit like that where it's like, calm down, dude. So, so he's living on his investment money from the movie he was going to make. And then that movie is called, he, he creates this new movie called House of Cards before, before all of it, before House of Cards. It's the Canadian House of Cards. So he's, it's the House of Cards. Yeah. House of Cards. I'm stealing that from Vince and Jesse Paugh and our friend from Canada who's so funny, Casey Corbin. Yes. Okay. We just, I just got to meet. Yeah. And our really funny shows. Claire is comedian in Canada. Okay. So it's an eight minute slasher fix flick that he makes about cheating. So basically he's Dexter, but he's like, I'm going to change this slightly because I don't want to get sued. And it's he's,

he kills cheating husbands instead. Okay. He fucking makes fake profiles of women on these dating sites, fines and catches cheating husbands, kills them. Seems a bit extreme. Yeah. It's like just to have a divorce. Yeah, exactly. Dexter's killing serial killers. It's a very good thing. This motherfucker cheats on his wife all the time. So like, let's not sell flowing. Let's not be hypocrite. Can you not? But so he writes this bullshit fucking movie. And he is, he takes it, where the character tases and abducts these characters, these people wearing a hockey mask, and he tapes them to a chair, gets their computer, like gets all their information, cleans out their bank account. And he and in the end runs them through with a samurai sword and

hacks up the body parts. Good God. Can I just say that Dexter never stole money from people? Right. I remember like he had a job. There was no financial gain. It was all purely like this is for the good of the people. Right. He also probably didn't own a samurai sword, which is like, if you were dating a guy and you went over to his house, need a fucking samurai sword. I'd be like, but I have to check my car really. Right. The last word wouldn't be on the sense. No, if you own a samurai sword and an iguana, get the fuck out of there. Or both. I don't want to say one of the other right. Especially if the iguanas on your shoulder holding a samurai sword and you have a goatee and the iguana has a goatee. Get out of there. We are making enemies

left, right and center on this episode. And I'm only two pages into this fucking story. Okay. All right. Here we go. So shortly after he shot this fucking stupid movie in his garage, a dude named John, who goes by Johnny Altinger has a date with a woman he met online. We're cutting to over here. Okay. Johnny is tall and friendly. He's a 38 year old oil field equipment engineer, whatever the fuck that means. He loves riding motorcycles. And he is really close to his friends. So he tells his friends like, I'm going to meet this woman I met online on the website, plenty of fish. Oh, the Christian dating website? Is that a Christian dating website? Right. He's like, I'm so excited to meet her. She seems super fucking cool. She won't give me her

phone number. And one of his really smart friends was like, give me her address just in case that seems sketchy. That was a woman. Yeah. This guy has good friends. So he sends her the directions to the address in Edmonton Southside where he's going to meet his date, Jen to pick her up for a date. Okay. And Jen's like, just go through the dark garage to the back patio, which is like, we always say to women, don't go to someone's house to meet them, meet them in a public place. But like men, you don't think about that, you know? Right. And I think it's, it's rare that anything like this would happen. Right. But all of us should just be cautious for the first couple days. Slightly cautious. Just like, let's, let's meet on the sidewalk. Yeah. Let's make sure

there's, it's at least a two to three lane highway that we're near. And lots of public exposure. It's the thing I'm like, I feel like a lot of, I wish I'd known earlier, like you're not a bitch. If you don't trust someone, you've never fucking met before. Thank you. Let's shake on that one. Shake on that one. That's a handshake statement. If I've ever heard you're not a bitch. If you don't trust someone you've never met before. Right. Or don't know very well. I mean, and I'm talking six, eight months in. Yes. No, trust must be earned by a steamable axe. Yes. And trustworthy axe. Exactly. If there have been none, trust doesn't exist. Right. And you're not a fucking cunt because you're where you're, don't let them gaslight you into thinking what a

untrusting person you are when you have ample reason not to trust someone. And as an acting cunt, I would just like to tell the people that are afraid to be one. Actress cunt. I mean, I act like one that come on over to this side because it's, if someone accuses you of that, it's really not that bad. Right. Most of the time that just means that you're asserting yourself and not doing whatever another person wants you to do. Right. Which I don't recommend. I love it. I'm there with it. Yay. So, so Johnny, after he goes to meet this woman and just after seven o'clock, he sends a message to his friends saying he's arrived at this date and it's the last time anyone hears from Johnny. Realist, really. Okay. It's Canadian Thanksgiving, which is a thing,

in 2008, two days after Johnny had met with his date, Jen, when he misses a fucking much anticipated bike trip with like motorcycle bike trip with his friends. And they're all like, that's not like him at all. He's super fucking punctual and reliable. And then they get an email from John saying, quote, I met this extraordinary woman, Jen. I'm going away with her to her summer home in Costa Rica. I'll call you at Christmas time. In a month. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm assuming that that Canadian Thanksgiving is around the time of the American thing. Gotta imagine it's not in like fucking August, right? I would hope. Yeah. So, yeah. So they get like, if you got a message from your friends, like,

goodbye, don't contact me. I'm going away. No. No. So his friends and family, of course, like, that's not fucking right. And they start calling around. They get word and he doesn't show up for work. They call the police. The police are like, wait it out. It's not a big deal. His friends are like, you don't know Johnny. So they break into his apartment. Oh, good. Where they find his clothes, his suitcase, his passport, all that shit. There's no signs that he left on a vacation. So the police are probably like, all right, let's fucking look into this. I love those friends. I know. I love that they broke into his apartment. That's that kind of thing too, where it's just like, you go kick that door down. What's going to happen? They're

going to arrest you. And Johnny comes back from Costa Rica. You can be like, what the fuck is wrong with you, dick? Yeah. I'm not paying for your fucking door. You need to call your friends and family. And if, but he would never do that because if he came back from Costa Rica and was like, you guys, he would have been like, you love me so much. He kicked my door down to find that out. Get hysterical sometimes. Get in there. Do it. Kick down doors. This detective, Bill Clark, is assigned to Johnny's case. Johnny's been missing for nine days at this point. He follows the directions to the garage that he had given to his friend and contacts the person renting it, our fucking aspiring filmmaker, Mark Twitchell, who's been shooting a movie there. Twitchell's

like, great, let's take a look. He's like super into like, everything's fine. I'll show you around. Oh, the lock's been picked. I don't know what's going on. Like someone must have been in here. I haven't been in here since the 10th. They find a receipt inside from the 15th from Mark's fucking, like he's, he just is not good at murder. He's not good. And he thinks he's great. He thinks he's really fucking smart. And he's truly one of the worst. You've like most incompetent fucking people you've ever seen, but he thinks he's smart. So he asks questions like he's concerned. And they don't consider him a suspect at all. And they start questioning people around the neighborhood. They find a couple who say that they saw and they witnessed an attack a couple weeks

back. They say they that someone came out of a garage running out of a garage and trying to get help and they freaked out and ran and someone was like chasing him. And they're like, it happened this time. But but the cops are like, that's weird. It happened a week before Johnny's date. So what the fuck are they talking about? No. So they go public with hopes of finding info. And that's when this dude fucking Giles Jill Tetra. So this dude is a 33 year old contractor. He had been separated from his wife. He had joined plenty of fish at that time. And he has a fucking story to tell that he hadn't come forward with. So Friday, October 3rd, a week before Johnny had gone on his date, he goes to Edmonds and Southside to meet a woman he had

been chatting with on plenty of fish. Sheena is an attractive woman seems really anxious to meet him. She's smart. She's articulate. They've been flirting. She suggested her in a movie and they're going to go meet up at her house. A few minutes past seven o'clock he arrives, parks outside an open garage, goes into the garage. It's too dark to see when someone starts attacking him and fucking uses a stun gun on him. He gets shocked and he turns to see a man towering over him with a hockey mask on. Oh my god. The guy in the mask pulls out a gun and points it at him. And so this tetra is like, oh shit, this isn't my date. And he forgot to tell anyone where he was going to be. And he's like, oh, shit, I'm dead. The mask man pushes him to the

ground, covers his eyes with duct tape and tetra rips the duct tape from his eyes and jumps to his feet. And later he says, quote, I decided I better fight back. I'd rather I'd rather die my way than his way. Yes. And spoiler alert, I know this because he later writes a book called The One Who Got Away. Escape from the kill room. Whoa. Yeah. So this guy, he reaches to wrestle the gun out of this dude's hand. He fucking finds he like when he touches it, he realizes it's a plastic fucking fake gun. And they start fucking brawling. And Tetra drops to the ground fucking Indiana Jones rolls out under the garage door. Yes. Fucking gets out onto the street. Throw me the idol. I'll throw you the whip. Yes. He tries to run when he gets out there, but his legs aren't

working because of the fucking stun gun. He's crawling down the unpaved gravel driveway and fucking Mark Twitchell comes after him grabs his fucking legs and starts pulling him into the garage. It's saw. It's the movie saw. Yeah. Tetra looks up and sees a fucking couple out for a walk. And he's like, oh my God, fucking help me. I'm getting robbed. The couple freezes because they see this dude with duct tape and like getting fucking dragged and the person who's dragging them has a hockey mask on. Oh, dude. Like what would you do? Yeah. You'd be like, what the fuck is this shit? I would run toward that hockey mask. Fingers out. Let me help you. Yeah. Right. No, they freaked out and they ran away. But Mark had run away at that moment too. So they call 911, the cops get

there and by the time they're there, everyone's gone. Okay. But fucking Tetra was able to escape. And he doesn't come forward because he's afraid of being followed and attacked. He thinks the person must know who he is. Yeah. He does know who he is. He has all his information from that dating site. Right. And he can't track him down on plenty of fish. He's like, this is fucked up and scary, which sucks because we had come forward, maybe something. But it makes perfect sense. It's like you basically went then through the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to you. You feel like a stupid fucking idiot, probably a little bit. Well, there's yeah, there's a lot, a lot involved there. Yeah. But then he comes forward and he finds out about this. Yeah.

So days after Mark Twitchell's first interview, he comes back to the station and is like, oh, by the way, I meant to tell you guys this. I actually bought a new car from a dude who was selling his car on the street. It happens to be a Mazda hatchback, which is the same car that Johnny fucking drove. Oh. So he's like, it was so weird. This guy was selling his car on the street because he was he had met a really rich lady. He was going to buy him a new car when they got back from their vacation in Costa Rica, like just trying to fucking like overdoing his bullshit. Yeah. And which is what liars do? Yes. Saying he bought the car for $40. And that's yeah. Yeah. So it's obviously stupid. Of course, the culture like, oh, sure, this guy's a fucking idiot. Yeah. But

they don't have any hard evidence on him. So they he denies having anybody to do with it and but obviously he becomes a prime suspect. They get warrants to search his car and home and sees a bunch of fucking dumb movie props and personal effects. It's October 27th. They find a computer with a deleted file in his trash bin. So he emptied his trash, but also like, you can't just throw incriminating evidence into your fucking computer trash can and expect it to go away. Especially if you don't empty that. That's right. It's not how it works. Empty the trash. Just kind of make it hard. Cops like are bored probably and they're like, just don't make this so easy for us. Yeah, exactly. So the opening so the file is called SK Confessions. SK stands for

serial killer. Oh, bro. So this fucking stupid idiot. The opening line reads, this story is based on true events. The names and events were altered slightly to protect the guilty. This is a story of my progression into becoming a serial killer. So he fucking details everything he does with slight variations and says it's a fucking script. Wow. He's so stupid. The 40 page document includes diary like entries that detail his crimes. And when Tetron reads the account of his attack through his words, he's like, it's reliving the event. That's exactly what happened to me. Wow. And there's a gruesome step by step of how the murder happened on October 10th of Johnny. So it's a cold blooded attack with a pipe and is followed by graphic details of

dismemberment and where he hid the remains. So he says exactly what he does coldly in his quote unquote script. Yeah. And they also realized that Mark Twigel had fucking broken in to Johnny's apartment and fucking used his email, had gotten his fucking password and used his email to send people messages that he was fine. But how creepy that was in his apartment. Yeah, that's sinister. So now Mark Twigel now 33 is arrested on Halloween of 2008 for the murder of Johnny Altinger and police confiscate knives, saws and a cleaver that are stained with Johnny's blood. And they discover his deleted confession, but they still don't have a body fucking Mark Twigel refuses to cooperate. And there's video of there's video of him in the backseat of a fucking

squad car being driven around for hours. Well, the cops try to get him to talk. And he's just quiet and stone face like a real video. It's so creepy. Nine months later, though, he gives police a map marking the location of the body, which was in a sewer drain. It's so sad. So March 2011, Mark Twigel goes to trial for first degree murder. And he takes the stand. He admits that he lured Tetro and Johnny to his garage, but he wasn't planning on hurting them. He says he attacked the men as a prank to get publicity for the movie that he was making. And he assumed that they would talk about their attacks, and it would help promote his film. And he said it got it went wrong when John got angry about the prank and started attacking March. He said, Mark, he said it was

fucking self defense bullshit. Yeah. Clearly because then after the fact, you're sending people emails and you have all kinds of plans and schemes and you write it as if it's true. Yeah. He also claims that his writings aren't about the murder at all, but they're that SK doesn't stand for serial killer, but Stephen King, whatever. He describes himself as a psychopath with little ability to feel empathy, but he's never diagnosed with any mental condition. Of course, in the end, the fucking jury deliberates for five hours before finding him guilty of first degree murder. He sentenced to life in prison and is currently serving that without the possibility of parole for 25 years in Saskatchewan and Penitentiary. So then I was doing some research and in an

ironic twist, fucking Johnny Altinger, the victim, he was also a bit of a nerd himself. He had been obsessed with computers since he was a kid and he got his first Commodore 64. He was a total computer nerd too and was obsessed with stuff. The only difference was he was in a fucking psychopath asshole. So this was like the good guy. He used his computer skills in the 90s to play text-based fantasy role-playing games like Legend of the Red Dragon using his dial-up modem and he even had the alias Ultra Magnus, which is a character from Transformers as well. So there's this weird similarity between the two, except he wasn't a fucking piece of shit. Johnny's friends and family described him as quiet, affectionate and giving at the funeral, but nobody said the same thing

about Mark Twitchell in court. And that's the fucking story of the Dexter Copycat killer. Wow. Yeah, I feel like I've seen the whatever American Justice version of that and it's so disturbing. Like that idea that you're arriving somewhere thinking you're starting a date. The most pure reason, like date night energy and you get attacked by somebody in a fucking hockey mask. And this guy was 40. He was like really wanting to settle down. He wanted love and he met this man. It was just like the most pure reason. Yeah. And that happens. It's heartbreaking and awful. It's horrible. Yeah, that was good. Let's fucked up. So, uh, what? Rain? Whoa. Or rollercoaster.

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it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Arisha and I'm Brooke and we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast Even The Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her

death, her talent remains unmatched, but her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva will tell you how she hit her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even The Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. What an awful story told very well. I hope you enjoyed it. Now my Karen story. Again, so many to choose from. I thought about Poly Class, which was Karen's hometown or Ronnie Chasen, but I had to pick the story of Bonnie Lee Bakley from episode 112, which happened right around the corner from me. Now, Bonnie Lee Bakley was married to a famous

actor named Robert Blake. She was shot in his car after they ate dinner together when he said he was going back to into the restaurant because he forgot his gun. It's an insane story. There's so much more to it. And I learned things that I didn't know. The episode is classic Karen. She sings, she does voices and impressions. Her description of the old school Italian restaurant Patelos is, if you like kiss your finger style Italian bullshit, this is your place. She sings Sammy Davis Jr.'s Keep Your Eye on the Sparrow, which is the theme song from Beretta. There's a reference to Stephen grooming his mustache. And you know what? I'm going to sound a little like Stefan here or Stefan, but this story has everything. It's got polygamy, Debbie

does Dallas, Jerry Lee Lewis, a hookup in a van behind a jazz bar, an explanation of Los Angeles' famous Angeline, Georgia losing her retainer at Mimi's Cafe in Van Nye's. And Karen gives the sage advice that how Hollywood makes you think you can do things you shouldn't and can't do. In the end, it's a tragic tale of a woman shot dead and a movie star husband, and who many still think had something to do with it. So here is Karen's story of Bonnie Lee Bakley. Okay. So this, I'm doing this story this week because I mentioned it last time. It's the murder of Bonnie Lee Bakley. Yes. And the, you know, eventual trial of famous Hollywood actor Robert Blake. Fuck yes, Karen. And it centers around one of the most popular

and exciting Italian restaurants in the valley, Vitello's. It's gone, right? No, I think they redid it. It's still there. Oh yeah. Okay. It's just totally different now because it used to be like divey. Well, it used to be, you know what it was? It was like, clearly, it was like built in the 60s, 70s, probably early 70s, I would say. So the inside was like these big nagahide booths that were like red, red, plastic leather. Love it. There's a huge like wall, you know, fresco, whatever you want to call it. That's exactly right. Of like, I don't know. I can't remember if it was like Venice and grapes or grapes draped on everything and they're dusty because no one ever cleans them. Yeah, like literal like plastic grapes. Like look at the bounty of

Milan or I mean, wherever. Yeah. And they have like a house, a glass of House Chianti for three dollars or whatever. Yes. And they have those like melty red candles. Yes. It's just the whole, it's exactly like the classic Italian restaurant. And the food, like the garlic bread is just a big loaf of sourdough cut in half with garlic on it. I love old school places like this. So fucking much. I want to cry. Yeah. It's, you know exactly what you're going to get. And Vitello's is good food. Is it? Because I don't even care. If it's like a, if it's the fucking ambiance is on point, I'm good. Well, do you like opera singers because they have that? Shut up. Yes, they'll have all the sudden an opera singer will bust out singing. Can I tell you something really quickly? Do you

know the one that's just like this on Vermont called Stephen? You know, hold on. It's on Vermont. The Dresden? No, it's on Vermont a crash from the House of Pies. We go there all, Vincent. Oh, yes. It's, um, we used to order pizza from there when I lived on Alexandria. Yeah. Hold on. Cut this. It's like Domino's. It's like, it's not, I mean, no, not Domino's, but like, it's called the sort of pee. Chalice. Oh, sorry. We can cut this out. Oh, why am I doing this? Like, Polarmo's. Polarmo's. That's right. You did it. Polarmo's. So leave it in. Leave it in. Polarmo's. Just like that. Also, when you go in and you're waiting for your table, you can get a glass of like dollar boxed wine. So one time, when I went through it the first time, we're like,

this place is amazing. And it was a Friday night. So they had there a guy with a, what are they called? An accordion walking around singing at tables. And I go, Oh my God, that guy fucking was the entertainment at my brother's bar mitzvah. No. I was like, is your name fucking Israel? Whatever it was. And he was like freaking out too. And it was. It was him. And I took a photo and he's like, I remember your brother. No, you don't. That's amazing. No, you know what it is? It's the not chain hometown restaurant in Petaluma. It's, it's, um, Volpe's where we go with my family and half of it is the original grocery store from the twenties. Oh my God. That they took the like counter out and put in tables so that you're sitting in the old grocery

store and dying. It's really awesome. And that's up the street from that hotel. Petaluma hotel, I want you to stay. I'm going to come with you to Petaluma one day. You would. Oh, we need to wear Sacramento show. We should stay a night. We can stay at Laura's. Okay. Totally. Um, um, but anyway, that's, that's, so that's Vitellos. It's, it's neighborhoody. It's very Italian. Like it's, it's, if you like kiss your fingers, you know, style Italian bullshit, that's, it's there for you. They're saying yes. That's actually painted on the sign. If you like kiss your fingers style Italian bullshit, this is your jam, a row. Um, so this was the play. Okay. So let's just get into this fucking thing because it's so insane. So we'll just talk first about Robert Blake.

Great. He's a famous actor and up until this point, he was kind of one of those, he was like a Hollywood stalwart, I would say. He started, he was one of the kids on our gang. Oh, really? Yeah. He was for in the Little Rascals original, they called them the film series. Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah. And it was basically he grew up, he was born in Nutley, New Jersey to a Vaudeville family. His, his father was an actor and an alcoholic, abusive, an asshole, um, the mom unfeeling and the three siblings, they had a little, uh, like a Vaudeville show with the little kids, um, called the three little hillbillies. Put them to work. Right. So they, he's, and he described his childhood as feeling like he was, uh, like a, like a monkey with a monkey grinder,

like he was just out there begging for change around town in Nutley, New Jersey, which is horrifying. Yeah. Sorry. I got all of the things I'm telling you right now from a show that I couldn't love the title of more rich and acquitted. So spoiler alert. Oh, now we know. But I mean, yeah, but we knew because this was a famous case anyway. But I didn't that show in any of means. I mean, it's so funny because it's when I, when I looked this up on YouTube, there's like a whole, there's a whole realm of rich and acquitted and it, and they're real because I, when I first started listening to it, I was like, God, they're being real judgy about like money and they keep talking about his money. And then it's basically talking about how when you have money, the entire

justice system works totally differently for you and the whole approach and strategy to the justice system. I'm not drunk. So, so the three little hillbillies have a, you know, minor success in Nutley, New Jersey and the surrounding area. So then, but it's, it's the mid 30s. So because it's after the depression, the movie business is exploding. Everyone's like, I've got, I do have 25 extra cents. I want to spend it on entertainment. I want things to be fun. I want to go and like watch the zig-fil-follies or whatever, something big in a, in a movie theater and have a good time. So his father moves the whole family out to Hollywood because he thinks he's going to be the movie star. Bad news. They're so poor, they sleep in the car. You know, it's

really hard. But the father gets a job in a hardware store and his, Mickey was his name at the time. Mickey Gubitosi was his original name. His Robert Blake's name. His Robert Blake's real name. He was born as Mickey Gubitosi. Mickey Gubitosi, he's five years old when he gets the job on the R Gang series. Wow. And he starts as an extra and they showed clips on the show and he's the cutest. You see him, he's got this little twinkle in his eye, but he's also like, he's like a little tough guy and it's so cute. And then with all, I mean, R Gang, if you go back, if you ever have a day, a free day and you just want to have some dumb fun, the R Gang series was the cutest, sweetest thing. And all those little kids were really talented. Now there is

extreme fucking racism because it was the 30s. But the cool thing was, or I won't say cool, but the thing that made it slightly different was that Buckwheat was one of their friends and hung around. But there's also, as anything from before 1995, it's a different time. Anyhow, so he basically, he's the one that makes it big. And from R Gang, when that's over, he basically emancipates himself, runs away from home, he joins the army, he ends up marrying a woman named Sandra Kerr. He has two kids with her, starts his family. It looks like he's about to fade into obscurity as like a character actor that like was a child actor, you know, because people, it was really cool. They had interviews with like

other little kids that had been on that series that grew up to also be actors. So you could recognize them as they were talking and they were talking about how Robert Blake as a child actor was really good. He was a really good actor. He was a really serious child. Like he was there to like kill it. Which is very- He was taking it seriously. Exactly. Not just because his parents wanted him to. Right. Not just because he would get the shit beaten out of him when he went home. But it's just that thing where you know, like when those, when little kids have it, that kind of like, why am I looking at that kid? There's six kids and that's the one that's caught my eye. He was that. So right as he begins to fade into obscurity, he gets that part in

in cold blood. Whoa. And if you haven't seen the movie that Robert Blake stars, Robert Blake stars as you know, one of the two killers in cold blood and he's so good and it's really, I only saw a clip of it. I've never seen the entire movie start to finish. Yeah. But it's really amazing. I think I watched it, but didn't realize it was him and you don't watch it again. Yeah. Cause it's old. It's like a thing you'd see on AMC. Yeah. But it's really good. Also, and then it started making me think of how much I loved the version with Toby, that British actor. Someone make that, please. That short British actor that's in, he was in, he's been in tons of stuff. He's so good and he plays true Macapote. Oh, you remember that one and they go out to

start interviewing the families. It shows how true Macapote wrote that book. It's such a good movie. That was a, what's his face? Philip Seymour Hoffman did one of a version and then there was another. So there was one with Philip Seymour Hoffman and there was another one with Sandra Bullock and Toby. McGuire. No. British Toby, British Toby. Stephen's going to find it. Stephen. Once he's done grooming his mustache. Stephen. Toby. Keith. Oh, Toby Jones. Toby Jones. No. Don't know that. No. No. Yeah. Yeah. But he's such a good actor. He's in everything. Okay. And that, oh, infamous is the name of the biopic. Okay. From 2006. But then there's also the, the, the Philip Seymour Hoffman one, which is give it a look. See, it's good. I liked it.

I love, I just love that story that, you know, somebody like Trimacapote was just such a insane one of a kind beyond belief. That was a sidebar to beat all sidebars because basically he's in cold blood. He comes back and that, that kind of brings his relevance back. And then he gets the lead on the cop show, Beretta. Do you remember that show? I was too young. You were definitely too young because I was like, it was just in my consciousness. That was like such a mid 70s show. But Beretta was the cop that had the parrot. And so if you remember, he was, he was like the Italian looking cop with a white parrot on her shoulder. And, and he kind of had that columboi thing where he was like, yeah, man, you know, yeah, and every man, I guess is what that

impression just was. But if you, but you can look up old episodes of Beretta. And if only for the opening theme song, it was the full version is recorded and by Sammy Davis, Jr. Holy shit. And it's called keep your eye on the sparrow. And it's like, keep your eye on the sparrow. You have to look, you have to look it up. It's happening. It's so like, it's so like disco 70s look at the like hardcore fucking like weird solo bogus at the beginning. They're like, here we go. The streets keep you. Yes. Yeah. Yes, you have it. Holy shit. Maybe you know it. It has this show had everything and he ended up winning an Emmy for that for that role. I think that show went on for four years, whatever. So he basically then becomes a hit and he, he does, he invests his money wisely and he

builds his wealth. And he also became a fixture on the tonight show. And so once Beretta was over, he was still like a big presence in Hollywood. And the in the winter of two, the year 2000, he, he goes to a jazz club one night and he meets a woman named Bonnie Lee Bakley. And they hit it off immediately. So they, and she didn't know he was a celebrity. She actually had to call her sister and say, have you ever heard of this name? Because he's saying he's famous. But that was in acquitted, rich and acquitted. But they really did hit it off. Then at the end of the night, no judgments, they go out to his van and do it. No, like the alley behind the jazz club. That's the first night they met is, is they did that. So then they're, that is where their fate is sealed. That's

where in the alley, in the alley behind a jazz club in the picture that they showed on rich and acquitted, it was this purple van on these big old like jacked up wheels. Oh my God. It, it looks, it's like half Scooby Doo, half like monster truck rally. You're like, where did you get this fucking car? Oh my God. If you invested your money so goddamn wisely. Yeah. All right. In 2002, this car is from 2000, not from the fucking. Good point. That's, this is not the 70s we're talking about. It's not Beretta anymore. No. But he was truly keeping his eye on the sparrow. And keeping it real. Keeping it real in the alley. That's right. So now let's switch over to this woman, this romance that he's having with Bonnie Lee Bakley. So she was born

in 1956 in Moorstown, New Jersey. She was also poor growing up. They're both from New Jersey. Both from New Jersey, about 20 years apart or so. This is, she has a fascinating history. And this woman, if you want to talk about somebody that got fucking maligned after her own death, Bonnie Lee Bakley, we all heard every single thing this woman ever did. She was not there to defend herself or even, even just be a presence. Now she did a bunch of fucked up shit. And that ended up getting proven in court before she met Robert Blake. But as the cops said in rich and acquitted, doesn't mean she deserved to get murdered. And it doesn't mean, you know, it doesn't mean she's any less of a victim. Right. I just remember when this case started,

how often they talked like on the radio and, you know, like Howard Stern style talk shit on this woman. Yeah. And apparently it was the lawyer's plan from the beginning. No. Yes. They were ready once the like indictment came or we, you know, the charges were filed. The lawyer had it already of like, well, here's the victim and here's her past. It's pretty intense. So now going back to where she came from, she was married for the first time and divorced when she was 15. Oh honey. Then she dropped out of high school after she had a marriage and a divorce. Sweetie. What I estimate to be sophomore year, then she was like, you know what, I'm past high school now. But she's like, when am I going to go back to high school? When am I going to go to the spring

formal? I don't think so. I'm a divorcee. I'm above you all. Oh my God. So she moves to New York City. She wants to be a model. She's really beautiful. She has great features. She's kind of a like bottle blonde, but in that, you know, she's like got this big open face. She wants to be a model. She wants to be an actress. And she goes right for those nudes. She's like, like, she just, she's like, I'm ready to do it. I want to do it. And let's do this thing. She, nothing pans out, which sometimes happens when you take Nance. People are just like, yep, put him in the pile with the other Nance. Sure. She ends up marrying her second husband was her first cousin. No, she has. Yeah, she did it. And she had three kids with him. No,

don't do that either. Yeah, yeah. Oh no. They did that year. Like what year is this? This is the, 70s ish. This is like the early 70s. Oh, and they're having cousin kids, cousin kids and kind of like a, I want to be famous, but, but maybe I'll just do this instead. That's all fine. But don't marry your cousin. Right. Yeah. Whatever the fuck you want. Don't marry your cousin unless you love hemophiliacs. Then we're talking about a different thing. Gross. Here's what's kind of cool. So she has all these pictures that she took trying to get break into show business essentially. She's a visionary. She starts a mail order nude photo mailing like service. Yes. She puts personal ads in the back of like smut magazines that's like, Hey, here's me. Do you want me to send you my

nude photos right to me here and send me this amount of money? So smart. She starts fucking making bank on this business. Yes. Good for her. So she's like the original dick pic, you know, like nudie gal. She did it first. Yeah. And she's sent, she wrote send nudes please. Yes. And they were like, yes. And then she did it. They're like, I love nudes. I was just reading this whole magazine of nudes. I'd love more news from your home. Right. And she's like, I've got this. Yes. So she eventually makes so much money off of this business. She can buy several homes in the Memphis area. Oh my God. So she's, she's, she's supporting that family. She's like getting it done. We're in the wrong business. I mean, you have to be willing to in some of the pictures because

there's exercise. So pass. Get on all fours with a cowboy hat on and nothing else. Oh, no, I don't want to do that. There was a lot of that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Like campy shit. It seemed very, it was like seven seventies porn had an innocence about it where it's kind of like, look at me with no shirt on. That's how that a lot of those pictures. Yeah. I've seen Debbie does Dallas. Have you? Yeah. Is it good? No. It's fun. Good storyline though. Powerful. Spoiler alert. Debbie does Dallas. The whole nighttime soap opera. Okay. So now this is fascinating and it kind of shows you the mindset, but also like, you know, she's from Tennessee. She's living in Tennessee at this point, right in the Memphis area, Memphis, Tennessee, just double checking with myself.

And she's trying, she still has that thing of like celebrity. She's always been obsessed with celebrity ever since she was a little kid. She wanted it. She wanted to be around it. She wanted to be near it. So she gets this idea in her head. I'm going to hook up with Jerry Lee Lewis. What? Yes. Cousins. He loves cousins. She loves cousins. That's right. They live in the area where the cousin shit is entirely supported by the community. Everyone's kissing their cousins. People are used to it. Go to third base with your cousin. We love it the town says. No. In 1989, so she's 33 years old, she's been married four times. She's been arrested for drugs, which it's the 70s that's going to happen. Well, now it's the late 80s. But the 70s have existed. So I'm giving her a pass,

I guess. The 80s were even worse. The 80s were a bit nuts. But so it's 1989 is when she gets this Jerry Lee Lewis plan. And she actually ends up hanging out and like sidling up and she's a gorgeous woman. So like she eventually meets him. She gets to hang out with them a little bit. I guess she ends up hooking up with him. She gets pregnant and tells him it's her baby. And he's like his baby. It's his baby. She's like, look, this is my baby. It's her baby. And there's no way you can prove me wrong. And Jerry Lee Lewis is like, sounds great. Shit. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I keep hitting the mic. No, that's okay. Okay. So basically, Jerry Lee Lewis is like, why don't you go ahead and take a paternity test for that baby? They have those in 89? Yeah, they were very popular back then.

And of course, he was not the father. Oh, man. She basically takes her fourth husband, it is like, we're moving to California, like she just gets out. And I should actually have you look this up because this is the best Bonnie Lee Bakley. She takes all that money from her home nudes business and buys herself a billboard on Sunset. Sunset Strip. Like Angeline style? Angeline style, except for it's just on the right side, it's her headshot, her 80s headshot. She's just like, and then it just says Lee Bonnie, that was her stage name. Lee Bonnie with a phone number underneath it. Can I see this? I need to see this immediately. It's really, it's so 80s to me. It's just very like, look, here's an actress on a billboard.

It's so Angeline, if you're not from LA, but you've seen her, like if they're, if they're going to do the beginning of a Hollywood movie, they will cut to an Angeline billboard. And that's that lady with the insane breast implants. She's got the 80s, she looks like the rocker chick who would hang out at like the whiskey. Yes. In the 80s, who would like hook up with metal dudes. Metal dudes. She's got a big kind of baby face, tons of blonde hair. I, that was a staple of my childhood when we come to LA, to my grandma's house. Angeline had a billboard there. And I was just like, I want to be like her when I grow up. Right. And I am. Look at you. Look at you. And you saw yourself in that British tabloid. You've made it. So, well, also she was being bankrolled

by some businessman. So it was just kind of like, do you like this person? Put them in your movie or TV show. And that's kind of the way some people were trying to get famous. Cause nobody, cause they hadn't figured out they can do stand up comedy yet. I'm going to see if I can find this for you. Okay. God damn, I just bit my cheek so hard. Are you okay? There it is. That was on sunset. Oh, wow. Yeah, it looks, it looks like a real estate photo. It's very reasonable. Yeah. And it's very, very beautiful. Yeah, right. And it's just kind of, she's just basically like, if you drive by this and you want to put me in your thing, totally feel free. Okay. Plus I have home noons. She phones for days. She, you know, she looks like somewhere between Meryl Streep

and Bonnie Ray. Yeah. She has that look. Yeah. So like severe angles, but pretty. Yeah. Okay. And a nice tall forehead. Maybe a little Sigourney Weaver going on. There's a little Weaver in there. Mm-hmm. She starts writing. So this was around the time where Christian Brando ended up going to jail for involuntary manslaughter. Right. Merlin Brando's son. Yeah. Right? Yeah. He's going off the fucking rails. Yeah. That's a whole other. I didn't even want to get into it, cause I'm like, ooh, we should save that one. Cause that's a whole insane story. Totally. These Hollywood murders. So he's in jail. So she's one of those people. She starts writing him letters in jail, sending him home, home spun nudes. Absolutely. He's like, this is great.

Thank you so much. And when he gets out of jail, they start having a relationship. Oh, shit. Yeah. Um, so that's basically kind of this, this on and off thing. They, a lot of people in this special say like they're seeing each other or whatever. Like, uh-huh, we get it. We know what that means in a van in the alley behind the jazz club. Oh, uh, but then when she's seen Christian Brando in real life, that's when she meets Robert Blake. That's where that story overlaps. Okay. So Bonnie kept flying back to Arkansas to pick up her mail because apparently when she lived in, uh, she was, she ended up getting arrested there because she had so many fake IDs and

so many fake social security cards for all the different, um, people that she pretended to be when she had that home nudes business. She never gave anybody her real name. So she's, she had a ton of fake ID, like fraudulent ID, basically. She had gone home to pick up her mail, because she was, uh, had been arrested. Basically she got pulled over a cop said, let me see your ID. She pulls out one, 15 other ones fall out. The cops like, what the fuck? She gets arrested for fraud or whatever. So now she's on probation in Arkansas. So she has to have an address there. Yeah. So she keeps, she like stays in LA for a little while, goes checks her billboard to see if there's any takers. And then she goes back. She has to go back to Arkansas.

She's, she's been doing that on and off. Okay. But once she hooks up with Robert Blake, so it's April of 1989 now, she finds out she's pregnant. Yeah. So she tells both Christian Brando and Robert Blake that they're the father. And she's kind of doing this thing of like, I'm not sure which one I want to marry and I'm still trying to pick because Robert Blake had a ton of money and he was really stable. And he was actually interested in her and like into her. Christian Brando was young and good looking and, you know, kind of like the, you know, she was just trying to decide like who she was going to start a life with. So she picks Robert Blake, but then when she tells him, so I'm pregnant and blah, blah. He's just like, you lied to me

and he, he turns on her. Robert Blake does? Yeah. He's super mean. They have, so it also turns out later on when this, when this trial starts, she recorded almost every single phone call she ever had. Shut up. So they, like when, when this case started, I vaguely remember this. Yeah. They had, they have phone calls of theirs. They have phone calls of other people. She had like, she just recorded all phone calls. Weird. So they could go through all of them. And that's when they start to find out her very checkered past. Okay. Like the actual proof of it. But basically she, she thinks she's going to do this kind of like, well, I'm pregnant. And so let's hook up. And I finally made my decision of my two boyfriends in my Hollywood life. And Robert

Blake is like, no fucking way. And is so mean and like demanding she get an abortion, telling her he's going to make her get an abortion, like all this stuff that she actually ends up writing a letter to her lawyer saying, if anything happens to me, Robert Blake is responsible for my death. Oh my God. So she ends up going back to Arkansas or Memphis. I think it was Memphis and she has the baby. It's this beautiful little girl. I mean, we've all seen when the case came up, you saw a million pictures of her. Her name is Rose and she is so cute. She looks like she's wearing like a little black hat of hair and she's got like bright red lips. And the second that Robert Blake saw the picture of her, he called Bonnie Blake, Bakley and said,

get a paternity test because that's my baby. And they did and it proved that it was his baby. So he knew he knew it looks exactly like him. Okay. And especially when you see those like our gang clips or whatever, it's she's looks just like him and she's really cute. Okay. So he's basically says to Bonnie, move back to LA, make a life with me. Like I want to like I love that baby. That's my baby. Let's make this work. And so she gets on a plane, even though she knows she's breaking her parole or violating her parole, she hits back on a plane to LA to make this happen. Once she's in LA, Robert Blake is like, give the baby to the nanny for the day out. Let's go out to lunch. And when they're out to lunch, two cops walk up and go, you're in violation of your parole

in Arkansas. You're under arrest. Stop it and take her away. Robert Blake's like, don't worry about it. I'll take care of the baby. We've got it covered. Those two cops bring her, they don't arrest her. They bring her to the airport and put her on a plane. No. Back to Arkansas. They tricked her? Yeah, they tricked her. So it turned out those two guys weren't cops. No. They were two friends of Robert Blake's. No. And they base, and this, the entire time it was his plan to get custody of that little girl. Oh my God. So basically he's got the baby. His grown daughter is like keeping the baby at her house. And he just basically sent her back and was like, trying to get rid of her. So she realizes the whole thing was a scam. She's furious. She threatens

to file kidnapping charges against him. Yeah. So they start to work on a deal because she's like, I will, I will like throw the book at you. Yeah. And the deal is she agrees to drop the charges if he'll marry her. Shut up. Uh-huh. So they, that's the most romantic thing I've ever heard. This is, remember the story you told about the guy writing the girl's name on the thing? This is better. Sending it to a planet. Can you imagine if a man, so how'd you guys meet? What if you're like, so how'd you invents me? Well, well, I tricked him. I threatened him with kidnapping charges. He retaliated, of course. And then, and then I made him sign a piece of paper. But in the end, you're meant to be.

He didn't love me. And I'm never alone with him because I'm scared of him. What the fuck? So crazy. So in this prenup there, basically it was like she was allowed to see the baby once a month and to see Robert Blake once a month. That's the agreement. It was the exchange. He will marry you if you sign this prenup. But what does she get out of it then? If she doesn't even get to be with her, she didn't care about her baby. Well, she does, but she, there's nothing she can do because she was in violation of parole. She's not going to have it, okay. And they've already kind of got that. So it's the kind of the only thing, only way she can see the baby still be in a life and still get the things she ultimately

has always wanted, which is to be married to a celebrity. Oh man, that feels, I'm going to move out of LA right now. It's, this town is bad feelings wall to wall. Galore. Good night. I mean, anyone who comes here has bad intentions. Or is going to have a bad time. Right. Right. Or better get bad intentions or you're going to get screwed. Screw before you get screwed. That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Just real good feeling place. It's, it's the reason that people come here, try to do something. And then they're like, Oh no, you know what? I'm now an evangelical Christian. Yeah. Because I've, I've seen or Scientologists or I'm going to be so vegan that I try to kill you. Like it's people just have to,

they have to reassess their entire life. They like a need a thing to focus on. Otherwise they'll focus on the horrible how they're nothing or they'll buy themselves a billboard. Like it's the kind of town where you feel like you're so nothing for so long that you're like, I'm just going to buy a billboard. It's the only way I can break through. It's just, it's a nightmare. So anyway, I like it here though. I mean, no, I love it. It's pretty happy. Okay. It's really gorgeous. We're having a great time. And guys, we get to do a show at the Orpheum in two days. Oh my god, we're still, it's amazing. She signs this prenup that basically gives her almost nothing. They marry in November of 2000. I wish I could have been at that fucking ceremony. I bet there

was rose petals and love galore everywhere. Just like scattered. You just use the word galore. And I think I might never stop using the word galore. It's so fun to say. It's of that time. It feels of this era. Yes. And I mean, like, you know, it's 2000, but like this fucking thing. Yeah, six months later, when her probation ends in Arkansas, she officially moves to LA, she moves into the guest house on his property, not into his house, her husband's house. She moves into the guest house, and they never share the same house. They only ever set it up like that. So it's not a real. Yeah, I don't get it. It's very strange. So then this all leads up. Now we are up to May 4th of 2001, when Robert Blake asks Bonnie if she would like to go out

to dinner. Do they ever go like on dates or anything like that? Do we know? It doesn't sound like it. Yeah. No, it sounds like a real bummer, man. It sounds like the most toxic relationship and the most codependent bad intentions from every direction. Also, it's that thing of like, if you are if you get together with a guy, and then the only way you can see staying in his life is tricking him into thinking he's fathered your child. I'd go back to square one, go back to that jazz bar and pick somebody else or start, you know, go back even further, start to go to therapy. Yeah, start there. Ask some questions. So then when you get to the jazz bar, you pick a good kind person. Yeah, you maybe drop some of that whatever happened to you in junior high. Drop

some of that. My first marriage was when I was 15. See, see if you can start anew. Yeah, none of this is helping anybody or constructive in any way. So they go to dinner. He says, I want to take you to Vitello's. She's like, hell, yes. Yeah, I love fucking dusty, great, fake grapes. I love red sauce. I love melted mozzarella on, you know, pottery. Box, Kianti, favorite. What's that wine, the one that's so funny? Chablis. Oh, Vin Rose. That's my grandma used to order. Oh my God. I'll have a Vin Rose. She had a weird New York accent because she was from San Francisco. Okay, so they go to dinner. I just had a recovered memory. There used to be a stand up show at Vitello's. No. Yeah, this was like the late 90s. Those are the kind of things I would be like, sure,

I'll do that show and I would show up and I'd be like, I'm not doing this. I'm not going, I'm going to drink in the corner. You can have the opera guy take myself. Okay, so Robert Blake tells Bonnie that he's brought his nine millimeter pistol with him to dinner because of all the unscrupulous business that she's involved in and for her safety. I'm sure she's like, sounds great. I'll have the breadsticks. Yeah. And she ordered the breadsticks. Just breadstick. Sounds fucking great. You know, when you're trying to be ladylike on a date. Yeah, you're on a diet. I'll just get seven breadsticks. I just have the breadsticks in a pitcher of iced tea.

God, I love Vitello's. So they leave the restaurant at 924. And between 924 and 940, Bonnie Lee Bakley is shot in Robert Blake's car in the parking lot of Vitello's. So they get into the car and then he goes, sorry, I left my gun in the restaurant. I'll be right back and goes back into the restaurant to get his gun that he says he left in the booth. There are no witnesses from the restaurant that say he went back into the restaurant. No one saw him go in and get his gun. But while he, he claims in his alibi is that when he, while she was getting shot outside, he was inside getting his gun. But nobody saw him. No one saw him. But it's the perfect alibi, because it's like, well, I was inside with my gun. Just say you went inside to pee. Like,

why did he have to introduce the gun part? I guess to cover the fact that that's where his gun was, like make it real clear that. Oh, he didn't even have his gun on him. Yeah, the gun wasn't anywhere but in the restaurant. But then why didn't he actually do that and wave at everyone with the gun? Hi guys. So they all said they saw him waving with the gun. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. Listen, I'm a master fucking criminal criminal. I mean, would that have helped be like, Hey guys, you know, thanks again. Bye. Oh shit, my wife just got shot. This one's for the opera singer. Chew into the ceiling. I'm sorry. I'm making light of this. No, no, no. I mean,

what we're making light of is the plan. The whole, what we're making light of is life and how fucking stupid it is. And also how Hollywood makes you think you can do things you shouldn't and can't do. But if fucking money and acquittal, the TV show. Rich and acquitted. Has shown us anything. It's true. It is true. It's true. It's why people want it so badly is because it gets you to a place. I was right. Rich and acquitted. It gets you to a place where you are untouchable and that's what everybody wants. That's real power. I don't want to be touchable. Oh, do you? I don't want to be untouchable. I think you're silky soft and totally touchable. Thank you. Baby soft. Thank you. So

at 940, Robert Blake rings the doorbell of a neighbor of Vitellos. Why? Because he went there to call 911 to the neighbors screaming, going fucking berserk. God. And the neighbor is it's a guy named Sean Stannock. It's his house. Okay. He goes there to his house to call 911 when he leaves and the cops go to like go to the crime scene. He he call he waits a little while then he calls police again and he asks them to come and look through his house because he he thinks Robert Blake might have hid something there while he was there. He says his behavior was so strange and over the top and bizarre and he was screaming and being super crazy about my wife, my wife, my whatever that he was like, I don't I just want

you guys to come and look. I feel like he did something and I didn't catch it, which I think is amazing and such a cool move where it's like, could I just invite you guys back real quick? He didn't even try to look for it himself. He was just like sometimes fucking off and I am not putting my fingerprints on it. No, get the authorities in here. Absolutely. ASAP. Well done Sean Stannock. So and other neighbors in the neighborhood were like, yeah, he was just running around screaming and like and like just so clearly presented like I'm freaking out. But a little vaudevillian and over the top. Sure. Just play it to the back. What do you guys play? Yeah, exactly play to the back row. Yeah. So so police are like, well, this is strange because again, no witnesses actually

saw him go into Vitello's the second time and he also Bonnie had a cell phone and was always on her cell phone. She was like, as we know for her recorded messages obsession. She was a big phone person always had her phone on her. He could have taken her phone and called 911 right there at the car and he didn't do it. Okay. He also he was taken in for questioning after like they all left the scene. So Bonnie was shot twice in the car. She was in the car. She was sitting in the car in the passenger seat shot through the window. Blood all in the car. She was taken the ambulance came and she was taken to the hospital but she died at the hospital. Robert Blake was taken in for questioning by the detectives never asked how she was. No. So they were like, yeah, the couple of

these things aren't adding up in a big way. They do the gun residue on his hands test inconclusive. They end up which is super brilliant idea and like, you know, for 2000s pretty advanced. There's a dumpster that the car is parked right next to and instead of going through the dumpster there, they just take the entire dumpster back to like the forensics lab or whatever and go through every piece of garbage piece by piece suspect to find. Yeah, to find anything and they end up finding this. It's a nine millimeter. It's a very rare World War two German officers gun that's a P 38 nine millimeter pistol. No idea. But when they find it, it's covered in motor oil. So they can't get any fingerprints off of it or even do any ballistics on it. It's just completely

ruined. They think intentionally. Yeah, I wonder if that was a fucking plot line in an episode of Beretta. They should have fucking looked that up, man. That's a fucking genius idea. Is double jeopardy still a thing? Bring him back. Bring him on back. That is such a good idea. I wonder if anybody looked up all the episodes of Beretta and just been like this person did this, this person, this was the plan. Sure. Okay, the next day, he he he lawyers up immediately, of course. And the next day is when the lawyer starts releasing the phone call tapes of Bonnie, starts talk trashing her like he had a whole basically kind of like a media thing ready. That is nothing to do with it. Well, it's it's what it is is like, they were trying to build the

case that that she had enemies all across the nation that she had she had conned men all over the place. And there were lots of people that that were her enemy, not just Robert Blake. So as bad and contentious and horrible and loveless and nightmarish as this marriage was that she had just entered into, she still he wasn't perhaps wasn't the only suspected she'd been looked at. Right, right, right. Okay. She and they find out that they start like when they start listening to these phone calls, they start finding these old men all around the country that they they thought she was his that they thought she was their wife. No, they they thought they were married, they but she was married to lots of people. She got married a lot. And she would take out life

insurance policies on them. And she also had them change their will to include her in top it. Yeah, that happened. That was a couple of them. Now this also, this was in rich and acquitted, but this also was all the information that the lawyers just like anybody to listen to it, they'll tell that story. One person theorized that she had been married over 25 times. Holy shit. But the provable amount, she was married nine times for sure. Oh, my God. Yeah. Okay. So, so at some point, like in the in this process, Robert Blake fires that of initial lawyer, and he hires Thomas Mesereau. You've seen him on tons of true crime things. He has strange, like, little Dutch boy hair, but gray. Okay, it makes very little sense. And he's the

guy that defended Mike Tyson and Michael Jackson. So you've seen him on the news. Yeah. Yeah. And and so he hires that guy, then he hires media consultants to start the story spin. And they get him on Barbara Walters. So from jail, in his orange jumpsuit with his hair now turned white, he isn't dyeing his hair black anymore, like he had up until that time. That that was like a big thing written. They say he did it for sympathy or whatever. But from jail, she's like, did you kill your wife? And he's like, no, of course I didn't. He's like, as if he's irritated with Barbara Walters, over, overdoing it a little for even out it. There's a yeah, he's there's a touch of Lily gilding, but we can't tell if that's just how he is. Yeah, because he's a child actor. He's

never had a normal life. Yeah, like you just don't you just don't know. He ends up eventually he ends up going free on a million dollars bail. A million dollars rich, rich, acquitted, rich, and bailed. So their theme song rich, rich, rich, and acquitted. Okay. So then the trial starts on December 20th, 2004 at good old fucking Ventura Courthouse. I mean, sorry, Van Ice Courthouse. That's how it all ties back in. Love it. Now, now that I'm thinking about it, I know the pre-trial was at the Van Ice Courthouse. I don't know if the actual. Let's go with it. So there's two different stuntmen who come testify that Robert Blake solicited them to kill his wife months before the actual murder. One of them they can prove he talked to on the phone the morning of

the murder. Robert. But in cross examination, he gets this, Mesero ends up resigning from the case, whatever that's called, leaving it. Quitting. Quitting, I guess. Quitting is the word I was looking for. You're welcome. He leaves. Blake gets a third lawyer. Always a bad sign when you have to keep fucking getting it. Look at Ted Bundy, for example. It's not good. You're not an agreeable individual. They hate you. Yeah, they hate your guts. They can't even, like, they're lawyers and they can't even fucking deal with you. They can't deal. They don't have to be around you that much. And they're just like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Just do what I tell you and everything will be fine. No, no, no, no. I'm a rock and roll actor. I'm smart. Yeah. Okay, so the new

lawyer is basically just like, well, I'm just going to eviscerate any of these witnesses who even because there's so little evidence that they have to like. So the two stuntmen that come and say, oh, yeah, he asked us to kill his wife. One of them, they pull up a report that he had recently been hospitalized for cocaine psychosis. Oh no. What's that? It's just like you do so much cocaine, you fucking lose your mind. How much cocaine? I mean, I'd say a night's worth. Maybe two nights worth. All right, interesting. It's like you just you started and you don't stop. Oh my god. And then you just fucking go berserk. Okay. So that comes out on one guy. So then he just like, his all of his credibility is done. And they basically do the same thing to the second guy. They're just like,

oh, you're both you're both these drug addicts. You're both these, you know, whoever you'd say anything for money, you'd say anything. Sure. So basically, once they get rid of those two people, there's no real evidence that they that's that's usable in court. So the jury deliberates for 12 days on March 16. 12 days 2005. Robert Blake was found not guilty of murder and not guilty of one of the two counts of solicitation of not guilty, not even like, not guilty. Yeah. Sorry, going not guilty. No, that's fine. They the other count of solicitation of the of the guy, the cocaine psychosis guy. That was dropped when it was revealed that the jury was deadlocked 11 to one in favor of acquittal. So they were going to go for it anyway. Yeah. And they were just basically

like, forget that one. And he's just going free because that went off the whiteboard. Yeah, they're just like, Oh, you're rich. You're acquitted. The Los Angeles, this is from Wikipedia, Los Angeles, Los Angeles District Attorney Stephen Cooley called Blake, quote, a miserable human being. And the jurors are quote, incredibly stupid to fall for the defense's claims. There's one woman in this special rich and acquitted, where she goes, of course, I believed that Mr. Blake would left his gun inside a restaurant. Haven't we all left things inside restaurants at one time or another? It's just like, lady, it's a fucking gun. Oh, my God. It's not your lipstick. You're fucking retainer that you put in the cloth napkin. Cost your parents $300. They were so pissed in

Mimi's cafe in Irvine. So basically, the public consensus was that he hired someone to kill his wife and it's just unprovable. But a lot of there were lots of character witnesses that were like, no, he's the best and he would never do that. And of course, there was no evidence. So, okay, go on. On the night of his acquittal, several fans celebrated at Patello's. And Karen Kilgarov was one of them. And I was up there singing opera. Just like this. On November 18, 2005. It's not opera. It's not. What? Yes, it is. That was Verdi. Everything's straight out your nose in opera. This is the barber of Seville. But if you're speaking about opera, it's opera. Yes. You don't have to sing opera.

That's right. This is a musical about singing opera. There's no actual opera in it. I'm out here and I'm wearing a fucking hat. More nasal. May I use the lawyer, please? A fucking hat. Guys, on November 18, 2005, Robert Blake was found liable in a California civil court for her wrongful death. Civil court will always fucking come at you. They'll come back and they'll be like, hey, we see things a little bit different. We forgot to talk about the fucking O.J. Simpson. No, we'll talk about it next time. Go on. Okay. So, sorry. Based. No, no, that's fine. So, since that time, he had to file for bankruptcy. He's $3 million in debt, unpaid legal fees,

as well as state and federal taxes. He said that he might return to acting because he has such financial problems now. He's like, we're good, bro. Yeah, we're like, we got it covered, Beretta. We're going to hire the parrot instead. In 2010, the state of California filed a tax lien against Blake for a million and $100,000, $1,110,000 in unpaid back taxes. Ouch. It hurts. Now, this is a very famous interview. He was on, he went on July 16, 2012. He went on Pierce Morgan and he's wearing a sleeveless cowboy shirt and a cow black cowboy shirt and then a cowboy hat. No, no, don't do that. And he is so crazy. You have to look it up on YouTube. It's an experience to have. And he just starts attacking Pierce Morgan for asking him any questions at all.

And Pierce Morgan's like, yeah, but this is what we came here for is like the interview and he snaps and is super fucking crazy. I want to watch it. You have to watch it. It's pretty legendary. He told the people that were writing his autobiography that he hoped for one last great film role. But the, but he was in Lost Highway, David Lynch movie in 1997. And that to date is his last acting role. In a March 2016, this is the, this is one of the saddest endings, not saddest, but like one of the most like, oh, endings of any of the murders that I've done. Uh-huh. In 2016, March 2016, he told a reporter that he had a private nurse and that he was suffering from incontinence. And that my friend is the sad ending of the murder of Bonnie Lee

Bakley. Oh my God. And the rich acquitted experience of actor Robert Blake. That's right. Right. Now he's 85. He's still alive. Holy shit. He's still alive. I think he remarried for a third time. Someone married him again. Of course it's the fucking, this is a town full of people who want their own billboard. So they'll do anything. So how can he get to be 85, but fucking Stephen Hawking is what was he like 73? So look, such bullshit. I wish I could explain God's work. I wish you could too. It's a mystery. This is just how he does it. Next time we have to talk about the OJ, if I did it, that they finally, oh, thank you. That was amazing. That was so good. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you. That was so, I don't want to call it fun, but it was a wild ride.

You know who he's always reminded me of is the dude, the dad from the staircase. Nice. Just creepy in that way. Yes. Whatever. There's definitely an energy about him that you're, but you can't tell. Actors are so creepy. They're so creepy. That it's like, it's the, yeah. It's like who are, is this really you or is there another real you? Are you acting or do you never know how to not be acting? Right. And you just think feelings are a weird mass to put on so you can manipulate people. Right. Like instead of actually having a real-time experience, it's like here's how feelings look like and sound like, oh Italy, I love this place. My gun. Abu Dhanza, everybody. Pizza for one. Type of shit. They got a ringtone immediately, Steven. Turn that into a

fucking ringtone. How great was that? I was laughing out loud at the opera musical riff, the opera musical that doesn't have any opera in it. So that was my favorite Karen story. Thank you so much for letting me share my love of MFM with you. For my plugs, if you're looking for a new podcast miniseries, I'm in a new six-parter called Unravel the Stalker's Web, where we track down the most prolific cyber stalker in history. He's been stalking people for 30 years. It's terrifying. He has over 50 victims. And me and Paul Holes on Jensen and Holes the Murder Squad have a special episode on Monday about the case that was our late friend Michelle McNamara's call to adventure, the unsolved murder of Kathy Lombardo. So you can check those out. And again, thank you so much

for listening. Keep digging, stay sexy, and don't get murdered. Elvis, do you want a cookie?