My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 281 - MFM Guest Host Picks #4: Brandie Posey

Episode Date: July 1, 2021

Throughout the months of June and July, Exactly Right family members will be guest hosting My Favorite Murder! Each week a guest host will pick their favorite stories from Karen and Georgia. Today's episode is hosted by Brandie Posey, co-host of Lady to Lady on Exactly Right. Brandie shares the stories of the Forth Worth Three Kidnapping and John Wayne Gacy (Live from the Chicago Podcast Festival - Episode 44). See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hey everybody, this is Brandy Posey from the Lady to Lady podcast, a new member of the Exactly Right Media podcast network, longtime first time on the old My Favorite Murder Feed. I'm this week's guest host. I'm super honored to be doing this. I have been a friend and fan of Karen and Georgia for forever. You know, I remember seeing Karen back on like Mr. Show and everything back in the day and like getting to call her a colleague and friend and comedy big sister is something that I do not

take for granted and I love every day. And yeah, this week, I'm going to share with you the two stories from the live from Chicago podcast festival, episode 44, if you're into numbers back in the day. I was actually at this show because Lady to Lady was on this festival in a much smaller venue, but we were there. And I actually like shot a video of Karen and Georgia's hang out with them backstage of them walking on stage for the first time because I was like, oh, this will be super cute for them to have them just walk it on stage for the first live show. And then when the theme song started, and they got this like Rolling Stones style response from the crowd, I just remember my arms completely being covered with goosebumps. And I was like, Oh, this is about to be a thing.

And no big deal, but I was right. And yeah, I'm so proud of them, not that they need me to be proud of them, but like I am and they're just they're so awesome. And I love this episode because this is like the very beginning and you can hear the surprise and their voice of just like, whoa, I didn't realize this was going to be a thing. So I mean, kick into the theme song that you guys know and love so well. Okay, guys, up first, we've got Georgia Hardstock, her first story live in front of an audience ever was the Fort Worth missing trio. And I'm so impressed by the fact that Georgia doesn't come from a huge live performing background and she crushes this out of the gate. It's so cool just to hear her just settle in to just being a performer that as somebody that has been

performing for over a decade, I'm just like, man, she just nailed it out of the gate. So enjoy Georgia's story. Um, should we talk about murder? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys like, it's pretty who's a murderer now like for real. I mean, that's called pandering. Now we're pandering. I don't think it's our thing though. I'm sitting on it with my butt. Are you gonna go first versus time? Also, I'm gonna put my hands in my pockets and put my microphone over here. Did you mind putting your hands in your pocket, Karen? As I tell you, I swore I was going to belch and it's about to happen. She's going to do some Robert Durst belches for us just. Oh, that was a good one. Was that really that was me? That sounded like a fucking horse. I swear to God. I thought you're like doing a joke

burp sound from a lady. That was unbelievable. I had a soda pop. If they want to pay us, I'll say which one it is. But I will not. Shit girl. Otherwise, we don't do branding. Otherwise, Dr. Pepper. Okay. Okay. Ready? Yes. Are you ready? No, I'm just now. That's too much pressure. All right. Okay. So December 23rd, super near Christmas in 1974, a great year for callers and cords. There you go. Bring us back, Karen, to a time. 1974, where the air was filled with lead pollution. So, okay. So three ladies, Renee Wilson, she's 14, Rachel Trelica, who's 17, and Julie Ann Mosley, who's nine, go on a shopping trip for Christmas presents. Can't be good. Nope.

No, they're fine. Let's talk about Ted Bundy. Anyway, Vlad the Impaler. So these three girls, they go to a upscale mall, the Seminary South Shopping Center, this girl knows it. I hear someone fucking whispering. In Fort Worth, Texas. Oh. Oh. I just thought I should make a noise. Okay. They're supposed to be home by 4pm. Guess what, Karen? Didn't show up. They didn't show up. So Renee and Rachel, the older girls, were old friends. Renee asked Rachel to come with her shopping. And then Renee's boyfriend was going to come, but he went to a friend's house. So his little sister Julie begs to come. So they bring her boyfriend's little sister along. So it's the three of them.

They get to the mall. Rachel parks her car at the top of the fucking car park, Osmobile, and they go shopping. People see them because, and this needs to be our new shirt, she's wearing a shirt that says, sweet honesty. What? That's 1974 for you. What the fuck? What's Stoner put that thing together? Sweet honesty. And you know it was like crazy cursive with the why on the honesty. And then like three loop deludes. Glitter like all around. Just on the tits. Yeah. No bra. No bra. No bra. Didn't have to. 70s tits. Like that's a thing. Yeah. For sure. They were real low. So a ton of people see them at the mall, people because people see her shirt, whatever the fuck. And then that evening,

families get worried as they do. They go out looking for the girl and they find her car where she parked it on the roof of the small area. And in the car, the car is locked and inside of the presence. So at some point they went to the car, put the presence in there, locked the car, and then what? Right? Yes. I don't know. You have to tell me. So they're freaking out. The next day, a letter comes in the mail and it goes to Rachel's husband's house. Now Rachel, who was 17 and married. What? What? Yeah. Wait, is that sweet honesty? That's the other one even. Okay. A 14-year-old is wearing a sweet honesty shirt. Don't let your babies grow up to be sweet honesty. For real. She's married to this dude. All right. This dude, her husband, was dating

her older sister beforehand. Look, it happens. Yes. Guilty. They break up. Her little sister and her boyfriend get married and then the sister's living with them at the time. What? No. Like, we all know where this is. Like, we know. Wait, are you just talking out an episode of Game of Thrones and saying it happened in Fort Worth? Never seen it. No, this is Dallas. I'm talking about Dallas. Yeah. Right? Okay. But no. Letter comes in the mail. Why is he checking his fucking mail the day after his wife gets fucking kidnapped? You think he should have avoided that mailbox? I mean, why are you checking it? He loves mail. It's the only thing that made him feel better. Fucking catalogs and postcards. Fair enough. Well, he goes to his mailbox and he finds a letter

from her supposedly from Rachel says, I know I'm going to catch it, which is like the cutest phrase I've ever heard in my life. Like catch some shit. I know I'm going to catch it. I don't want to catch it. I'm going to catch it. But we just had to get away. We're going to Houston see you in about a week. The cars and Sears upper lot love Rachel. I write. I know. So like, he gets that letter. Her name is kind of misspelled. His name is her. Seriously. Her first name is misspelled. Yeah. A little bit misspelled. Like, no, it had, I look, I've done that so many times where it's like, okay. I want to make fun of that. But recently, my, my manager emailed me was like, Hey, you're, uh, your name spelled wrong and you're real. And I was like, what are you talking

about? I looked at it and it said G E O R I G A. I fucking spelled my own goddamn name wrong. That was like, Georgia, Georgia. It's been like three years and I didn't notice it. So fair enough. Once you change it, you're going to get so many jobs. People have been like, I want to hire her for the million dollar thing. I can't find her. Her name is spelled wrong. No, there goes a million dollars. So it does happen. This isn't crazy. It happens. Let's be fair. Okay. So her husband was married to the leader. Uh, family thinks that the letter, they were like, that's not her handwriting. And she's called her fucking name. And in addition to back that up. So, uh, they, so the stamp had been stamped, you know,

like cleared at the thing that morning. So someone sent that thing the night before or on the 24th of when it showed up, which I'm like, if you're just, if you just kidnap three people randomly, you're not going to bother to let the family know you kidnap and you get straight to that correspondence. Yeah. Like that's to, that's to throw people off. That's not like a serial killer who's like grabbing three people and doesn't give a shit. Right? No, that's like an anal retentive serial killer. That's like, uh, leave us alone for a minute. Right? Serial killer. You mean can I have some privacy while I write my letters? Just sit at my secretary's desk and just write out with a feather pen. Like right after I kidnapped them though. You know what I

mean? It's weird. I get it. All right. So, uh, um, so people saw them that day because clearly she had a sweet honesty shirt on and like, how are you going to miss that one? A woman tells a store clerk that she saw some men hustle the girls into a pickup truck, but police never located that witness. Another says that the girls had been spotted in a security patrol car. So in 1981, which was what let's do math, which is like so many years later, six years later, seven, seven years later, a man, a man randomly comes around and he's like, Hey, I saw a girl. I saw, I saw a man forcing them into a van that day. You fucking dick. Like, where were you? Where were you? Oh, in 81, I just like popped into my head that these fucking girls were being forced

into a van. He had so much stuff on his mind. Christmas. Tons of littering back then. But the guy in the van told him, he goes, Hey, it's a family dispute. Don't worry about it. And that's why he never told it till he was till 81. Yeah. I mean, like, can you eat? I can't even. Well, because, you know, it was like back then, if your family was fighting about something, you could throw them in a van forcibly at the mall. True. It was done. How many people out here have like seen that and just never told anyone about it as a family dispute? Okay. Anything. I will call the police just if I see a van. I don't give a fuck. I don't care. I'd be like, it's clearly a bread truck. I don't care. Call 911. Karen does citizen's arrest all over town. All the time. I won't even

believe her now. Her brother says, Rachel's brother says that there's been sightings all over the Fort Worth area. You know, it's one of those like, they were white slaves, like people keep saying that. Some of the sightings were, what happened? Someone doesn't like that. It doesn't matter. Oh shit. Someone's mad about something we said. Okay. So these fucking chicks are never found. So wait, sorry. Now we're in the 80s. Were that far ahead? No. 79 that happened. I just, I said the 80s as like a thing. Sorry, sorry, sorry. It just seemed, I'm not questioning you. Yes, you are. It's our first fight here in Chicago. It's the place to do it. Okay. So they were never found. Spoiler alert. I'm sorry. That sucks. It blows. But there's two suspects that I find

very interesting. So Mike D. Bardellin Ben. Read that. Read that. Hold on. Let me get my readers. Mike D. Bardell Eben Eben. What did I say? It really is what it says. So that wasn't just you kind of having fun. It was a copy and paste. No, no, no. It was a copy and paste. So this dude gets arrested for passing counterfeit bills and then the cops found evidence of sex crimes, including him taking photos of him raping and murdering humans. Oh. Yeah. Thank you. Oh, you didn't know? That's what the whole fucking podcast is about. Someone's like, wait, what? I thought you were going to talk out the story of the Wizard of Oz. No. It's all this bad. The FBI profilers think that when the face is seen in the photo, he kills them. When the face

isn't seen, he allows them to live. Which is like, come on, you fucking dick. Okay. So here's the tie in is that he's a convicted kidnapper, rapist, counterfeiter, and suspected serial killer was the habit of passing counterfeit bills in shopping malls. He was operating around Texas around that time and was known to impersonate security guards and other positions of authority. Remember that chick was like, I saw security guard driving them in his van, right? Because like who, what girl back then isn't going to like go with, oh my God, my belt chicken, go with the security guard. Do it into the microphone next time. We accept you. My mom is here. Oh, that's right. Sorry. This is what you raised. Yeah. I mean, okay. So he comes over and he's like, did you see that? Yeah, that's awesome.

That's good podcasting right there. That's the kind of shit you can't see when you're listening. Yeah. Thank you. She's like the David Blaine of paper. Okay, so like back then, you guys, like, I saw you shoplifting. I'm in a security guard and you're like, no, I didn't. He's like, come with me, you know, and you make someone come with him. Yeah, you go. It's like he has a blue shirt on with a belt. And then you're like, Oh, I guess you're in charge. I guess I have to fucking do whatever you say. There's no stranger danger. There's don't fucking, don't fucking talk back to authority. That's what that was back then. Yes. So you just get in the car. Yeah. Goodbye. Sweet honesty. Sweet honesty. She didn't understand. It's actually you should sweet kick him in the

dick. You guys pepper spray first and fucking apologize later. Right. These days, George's favorite thing to say is should I pepper spray that guy? It's my it makes me laugh so hard. I can't remember where we were, but you're just like, do I need to pepper spray this guy? It's like, please don't not right now. Why not? Just spray it around like room freshener in your mouth beyond the, what is it called? The binoc. Let's do this. Okay. So he's known to impersonate serial security guards, not serial killers and other business authority. He lived within a half mile of Rachel, one of the girls who disappeared at the time of the disappearance. And then I fucked up. He earned the respect of the FBI profilers because he never gave himself

away in unguarded moments nor bragged about his exploits. So the fucking FBI was like good on him that he never told anyone. Well, it was like a healthy respect for the enemy because usually they brag. I don't respect them for not getting it out of this dude. If their fucking killer is smarter, should I not talk shit about the FBI? It's a sensitive time. Do it, someone yell. You fucking do it. Listen, love those guys. I'm just saying this dude was a serial killer. We're going to do a show at the FBI at Quantico next month. The murder of our government. You guys. Okay. The other dude who I think is just the fucking dude. Lloyd Welch. He's a drifter and a hitchhiker. Lloyd. Oh, sorry. That would be cool though. He's like a lord.

Lord Welch. But in Texas. Lord of the bad manners. Because he... The bad manners. That's what gets cut out usually. Okay. He's recently been charged around that... Oh, recently around now. He's been charged with the murder of the lion sisters. There's two girls and you're shaking your head. I can see it. Catherine, who is 10, and Sheila, who is 12, disappears from a Maryland mall in 1975. Okay. His exact same MO. MO. At the time of his arrest. No. At the time of his arrest, he's serving a lengthy prison sentence in Delaware for child sexual abuse. So he's a real fun guy. Like a prize. Yeah. Mom is proud. Good stuff. So in December, 2014, here's another fucking asshole. Welch's cousin tells detectives that he had helped Welch so that they never found the lion

sisters. They were like, these girls got kidnapped from a mall. Never found them. In 2014, Welch's cousin is like, well, one time I helped him with two heavy duffel bags in 1975. Dude. It gets worse. They met at a property in Virginia. He said he helped to remove two army style duffel bags from Welch's vehicle. Each bag weighed about 60 or 70 pounds and smelled like death. What the fuck? It was probably camping equipment. It gets musty. You know how when your cousins ask you to help you burn or bury something and you're like, I'm just not asking questions. I mean, look, we're all cousins. We have to be at Thanksgiving together. Just be chill. It would be so awkward if I'm like, what's in these? And you're like,

I don't want to tell you. Come on. Don't unzip that. It's my murder duffel. He tells in 2014. And then, oh, and he said, further, the bags were covered in red stains. It's probably Kool-Aid. Was he blind and deaf? And then in 2014, he came to... Yeah, he'll snap back miraculously. And, okay, so Lloyd Welch happens to be, he happens to work at the time. He's like a drifter, but he worked for a traveling carnival company. Guess where they set up all the time in the 70s? Inside a duffel bag. And no, in malls. And he was in Austin, Texas until around 75. These carnivals set up in malls from the mid-70s to 97. I'm just trying to picture a mall carnival and it's like, oh honey, bumming me out so bad.

You know, your parents always were like, those rides are going to kill you. They also didn't say those ride people are going to kill you. Basically, everything over there is going to kill you. Everything your mom, like your parents told you to worry about and you were like, you're being annoying. No, they'll kill you. You're dead on. Dead on. It's so annoying when your parents are right. So in July 2015, Welch is indicted, charged with the girl's murder. His uncle is a person of interest. Yeah. The duffel bag guy? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so here's another thing. So he's in malls, blah, blah, blah. His longtime girlfriend at the time dated for over 10 years. We're always on the road together, et cetera, et cetera. She was a security guard at a mall.

Oh, like for the real deal? Yeah. Borrowed her outfit. What's up? Stole those kids. You know it. Dance moves. Oh, and then in 2001, a former senior security guard and Fort Worth police officer gives a chilling account. He says that he witnessed girls climb into a pickup truck of a young mall security guard and that they appeared to go with him willingly. Goodbye. Thank you. I mean, that's just fucked. Yeah. Never found. Never found in the other two girls that were murdered. That was never prosecuted. Yeah. But do we know that the husband and sister weren't involved? The brother thinks that the sister was involved. I'd like to bring all of Texas up on charges for this story. There's no one's innocent in this. I think he's like,

he wouldn't be wrong. But also, it's so, wait, somebody had, the girlfriend was a real security guard, so they could have been borrowing badges and shit and stuff to make it look real. Or maybe she was complicit. Maybe she was complicit and fucking was like, get in my car, girls. And they got in her car. You know? Yeah. All right. So don't go to the mall. Don't talk to security guards. Don't wear your sweet honesty shirt ever again. Stop it. Don't do it. I have to say those cold cases drive me crazy. I know. I know. I know. That's your favorite. There's just no. We should set up like a red phone on stage in case somebody finds out. It comes through. Ring through and be like, Lord Welch. Oh my God. Oh, good. You guys. And then, and then like the

balloons drop and confetti comes down. We all dance and dance. Well, good one. That was a good one. Thank you. Clap for George's. Thank you. Where are you going? Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, Hello Fresh has you covered. Hello Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. Hello Fresh meals are convenient, seasonal, and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly. Why stop with just dinner? Now you can enjoy Hello Fresh's expanded menu of quick lunch solutions, weekend brunch, simple side dishes, and amazing desserts.

Karen, January is going to be my month for Hello Fresh. I am so sick of takeout. I miss cooking so much. I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since like early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and Hello Fresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder20 with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Aresha and I'm Brooke and we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely

shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched, but her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva will tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. Hope you guys all enjoyed the Fort Worth missing trio story from Georgia Heardstark. I don't know if there's any updates

since this was recorded in 2016. If there are, somebody tag me and let me know if we have an answer or not. And the next story is Karen Kilgariff. And because this was Chicago, Karen knew to just like bring one of the Chicago greats is the opposite of the word that I mean to say. But the word, one of the Chicago worsts to the stage. And so this is Karen doing the gruesome story of John Wayne Gacy. Enjoy. I hate this fucking stool. I'm sorry to say that about your stool. Stand and stand and deliver. I'm gonna stand and stare at you. Stand and deliver. Well, I, I did a very pandery thing and I picked a Chicago murderer. You think you're better than me? What's that? I said, you think you're better than me? That's

it. But also because there were so many choices. A lot of people love, they love to talk about how like Pacific Northwest, oh, yeah, so many murders in San Francisco. Hello, Chicago. You guys want to kill everybody. Chicago just doesn't brag about it. That's right. They're just low key. Yeah. Like, yeah, well, they're just like, yeah, let's go have a beer. I don't need to talk about that. How are you doing? More importantly, we don't need to talk about the torso murders. How are you doing? I've all killed it. No, that's not here. No, that's Cleveland. Anyway, there was a lot of choices to choose from. And there was a lot of favorites, but I actually had to go with this is my original, the reason I got into reading serial killer books and watching true crime shows,

fucking John Wayne. And I know this because she accidentally told me in the hotel room. It slipped out in the hotel room. Well, what was the context of that? You were talking about how the hotel concierge was like, you had to print out your notes and she was like, if you like John Wayne Gacy, you'll love this tour. And then I was like, oh, fuck. Yeah. That's all I said. I think there was nothing else. Yeah, but I'm about to hear them. You're about to hear them. And you may have heard me say this before, but the first thing I ever saw about John Wayne Gacy, because if you know, he buried the bodies of teenage boys that he murdered inside his house. And when the police arrested him finally, and he was able to draw a diagram of his house. And he knew where

every single boy was in the house. And there were 27 of them. I bet the FBI didn't respect him after that. They were like, oh, look at braggie braggers eating over there. Take it easy. So I saw when I was like, probably 12, I opened a book. The perfect age for true crime. Opened a book and they had drawn based on the diagram that John Wayne Gacy had drawn. They had, because he, they just used like long rectangles to show where the bodies were. And some artists had basically drawn body shapes, like it almost looked like a chalk outline, but like body shapes in a house diagram. So that's, I like was, oh childhood. And, you know, Johnny loves Chauchy and fucking this and that. And I looked down at this thing and I'm like, why are those boys floating in

those boxes? And then I read underneath it. And it's like, you know, 27 bodies were buried inside this house. And I was just like, okay, now I know that. And now I must know more. And I won't stop. Adding that to Charlotte's web. And some pig. So let's talk about fucking good old John. Also, the middle name Wayne is very common in serial killer world, which I think is kind of great that he got in there. I don't know. But he, they named him John Wayne Gacy because his mom loved John Wayne, the actor. Red flag. Right? Not a good sign that she loved film. So John Wayne Gacy was born on March 17th, St. Patrick's Day, 1942 at Edgewater Hospital in Chicago, Illinois. Anyone Edgewater? Anyone else? You guys work there? Were you also born there

with him? He was the second of three children. He had an older sister and a younger sister. And his father was a machinist who had been in World War One. And he was a very bad alcoholic. So the story was that his dad would come home from work and he would go down into the basement and drink brandy, which sounds classy. But they would have, they would, the mom would make dinner and then they will all sit at the dinner table and wait for him to come upstairs and see how he felt. Well, I bet when he came up, he was real happy. And everyone was like, we can finally talk about brandy. Well, no, instead, normally he would come up drunk and very angry. And he would beat them with a strap for dinner. So I'm good tonight on strap. I'm so full of strap from

last night, dad. You can give it to her now if you want. She's real hungry for a strap. And part of what they say, they think what fueled his rage is that John was basically a mama's boy. And he liked that, you know, the father was into fishing and hunting and man, man, man. And John liked to cook and he liked to be in the kitchen with his mom. He liked planting flowers in the garden. Things that in like the late 40s apparently brought deep shame upon you and your ancestors. And we're unacceptable. It made you drink brandy and beat children. So It sounds like the norm back then though, you know, yeah, I think it is. It's like everybody has to fit into their box. If you don't, I'm going to punch you in the face even though you're eight.

All right. And then I wrote down there toxic masculinity ruins the party again. Can't wait to see that meme. Then when, when John was nine, he was molested by a family friend. And then when he was 11, he was hit in the head back with a baseball bat. What with a swing with a swing exactly like Richard Ramirez with a swing. Yes. Yes. Like he got to nine. He was so fucking close to like not getting molested. Like you're so close. And then some fucking shitty neighbor like your dad's family friend. Yeah, all comes along. So close to getting and then a fucking swing. Yeah. Were they like that swing metal back then? They probably were made out of like seven pounds of metal. Like this will really center this swing nicely. Yeah. And it's lead.

So if you lick it, you're going to die. So but he also had a bad heart. So he was prone to fainting spells, which didn't help with the whole also gardening and cooking thing. Like he's just like taking five every once in a while type of stuff. And the, uh, so we just thought, wait, he's all fucked up. Then to add to the household tension, John had a secret fetish for women's underwear. So he would steal his mother's silk panties and put them hold on in a bag in the, and in a brown bag in the back of the closet. So then his sister found that brown bag in the closet and she told the mom and the mom was like, Oh, Johnny's always had a fetish for panties. So she was quite progressive actually, which is very nice to hear, but not helpful in any way. Uh, okay. So when he, so he

had a hard time in school, he wasn't popular. He fainted a lot. He was always thinking about those underwear. And then he went, uh, when he was nine, he never graduated from high school. He went to four different high schools around the greater metropolitan area. Um, and then he never graduated. And when he was 19, he just left town. He moved to Las Vegas without telling his family. It sounds like what you're supposed to do when you live in the Midwest. That's right. Bye. No, I mean, like get out of your small town. I don't mean not you guys. They just all come rushing to the thing. Yeah. Don't worry. They'll fall into the orchestra pit. We're totally safe. Um, so here's the thing. So he gets a job in Las Vegas and like I was thinking about this, like the

first job you get out of high school, it's usually based on the thing you kind of like the most or the thing that you're into. So like I worked at a yogurt shop because I love eating so much. I worked at a bakery. Did you? And well, John became a janitor at a mortuary. Yeah. Because it was his passion, the dead. And he actually later admitted to the police that when he worked there one night, uh, he, that's right. No, no. He got into a coffin with a, the body of a dead boy and fondled it. It gets so much worse. There's 47 pages right here. A lot of this is my poetry. I'm going to read later. Um, all right. His parents actually hire a private investigator to find him and they find him in Vegas. My parents wouldn't be like, well, good luck. I mean, if you've got to be in Vegas,

fondling dead bodies and live your dreams. Um, he came back to Chicago and he went to business college and it turned out he's a born salesman because he is a psychopath. Uh, right. We're learning as we talk on this podcast all about terminology and what it actually means as opposed to what I think it means and say it means to a whole shitload of people. And then people, we didn't know, we're learning that people believe us when we say shit. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. So I think we've taught like, uh, psychosis. I've mixed up psychosis and psychopath. Uh, so I, I had the thing where I told people that 25% of the population were sociopaths. And then in corrections corner, she said that it was only one quarter. Yes.

Yeah. And I was like, okay, I didn't fucking question. Everything's fine. You know, anyone can do a podcast, right? Anyone gets a podcast. It's true. So, but for this, I looked it up, uh, because clearly we know that these, these major players, uh, are usually psychopaths. And their thing is that they're very ambitious. It's like, they just want to get ahead. They're very, very charming, which apparently John Wayne Gacy was very charming and like had the gift of Gabby's really, he's very, you know, like he just made people feel very comfortable. And then he had an insatiable sexual appetite. So he was kind of always doing things so that he could, it was all sounds so like time consuming, you know, like it makes me want to take a nap. Yeah. He had to,

he had to like take vitamins and just really like make sure you got enough water and stuff. You know what's great is taking a nap with a cat. Like, I don't know. You don't need to be super sexual or talky or fucking cool. You just go to sleep. Yeah. Well, not John, as far as I know. I mean good for him kind of. What if he was like a crazy cat lady? He's like, oh my God, I have like 12 cats. I love it. Um, he worked at the Nunn Bush shoe company here in Chicago. Anyone? No. Oh, Karen, shut it down. Stephen, can we edit that out? Stephen, can we turn that part up where no one supported me? Um, he was very good at it and he ended up getting transferred to Springfield, Illinois. Oh, big time. Right. Are you representing from Springfield?

You moved the fuck out of there, right? I was fucking right. Um, and he joined a group called the JC's. Um, you can cheer for it. Now I just don't believe that you're actually behind. The John Gacy's. They're all John Gacy's. No, the JC's. That's JG's. Fuck. Sorry. Mom, this is your fault. Jesus. The JC's from what I can gather, which there is almost no information. I think they might be the Illuminati because it just is a website, a weird blue website that's like, we're a nonprofit organization. Help the city. And it's like, what, but why? And based on who? And like, there's no answers. Just young people in jackets that are like the JC's. So he was in the JC's and he made a lot of like contacts and like, you know, I guess made friends or whatever,

very active. And that's when you hear about John Wayne Gacy that he was like, um, you know, he lived this crazy double life because he was all successful and, you know, was in parades and shit. Well, I think it was like, it was based in the JC's. That's how it started. In February 1964, he meets a shy bookkeeper. And a year later, he marries her and she has a very wealthy family. It turns out he, it's an incredibly beneficial marriage to him. I want to say a shy bookkeeper as to what bookkeepers are usually like, which is fucking mad. I can draw. A lot of theater students become bookkeepers. And then so she's wealthy. Yeah. And so he's like, that's so weird. I'm in love with you. Um, what a, what a great coincidence. So later that year, so they get

married in, uh, oh no, sorry, they meet in February of 64. They get married soon after. And then later that year, oh, this is, this is mathematically impossible. Shit. Later, it's, I have later that same year while his wife is in the hospital giving birth to their first child, but I'm pretty sure no. But he could have knocked her up before. Oh girl. John, you dog. Um, basically she gets pregnant with their first child. She's in the hospital giving birth. You know, back then I was like, men didn't have to be in the delivery room. They weren't, you know, they were just smoking cigars. Women didn't even have to be there. They just like knocked you the fuck out. That's right. You're like, baby. Let me know when the baby comes.

Well, he actually was at a bar around the corner of the phone as co-workers who ended up fucking that night while his wife was giving birth, wakes up in the apartment the next day, gets dressed, goes to the hospital and holds his newborn son. Uh, yeah. So this is the beginning of his double life. And, uh, then in 1966, his father-in-law says, if you move to Waterloo, Iowa, I will, I will kill you from the audience. She's just scared because she was thinking about something that happened earlier. There was a spider. There was a spider on her seat. There's a spider. Um, the father-in-law says, if you move to Waterloo, Iowa, you can have three Kentucky fried chicken restaurants. Oh my God. Am I right with fucking Waterloo chicken? I would do that. So he goes there

to manage these. He's 24. Holy shit. And the funniest thing is when you watch these, I mean, there's a million, uh, uh, what do you call it? Documentaries about him. He always looks 53. Yeah. Like from, from fucking jump, when there's pictures of him as a boy, you're like, is that the oldest boy in America? He's just, at the Kentucky fried chickens, they say he's like a good manager and he does very well in the job, but he makes his employees call him the colonel. What a fucking nerd. Can you believe if he's, if I was standing there with my dumb apron on, like, working Kentucky fried chicken, he's like, I'm your new manager, but you got to call me the colonel. I'd be like, see you fucking later, colonel. I don't work here anymore. But you know,

he thinks it's like fun and like, you can call me this, but every time you don't, he's like, call me this. I said call me this. And she comes home from a hard day of work and she's like, my 24 year old fucking boss, I'm 53. I'm just that kid is telling me to call him the fucking colonel. Yeah. So he's quickly becomes a well liked member of the community. That's what he does. But he's good at. He joins the JC's in Waterloo. They're everywhere. Now you're going to see them everywhere. It eventually turns into Scientology. And they said he became the most valuable member of the JC's because he got put in charge. He's the chair, the chairman of the membership drive. And what he would do is to get people to join the JC's

would have them meet in a motel room and show stag movies and have orgies. That sounds amazing. And then people would be like, sure, I'll join the fucking JC's. Let's do this. Oh, then his sister in one of these documentaries talks about, she finds out when they go visit them one time that him and his wife swap partners like that they're that they're what is that called them. Swingers. They're swingers. Like Vince Vaughn and his friend. We don't even know what that means. And we're like kind of proud of it. He tells his sister when they're visiting. I was like, yeah, we're going to go to this party tonight, but we might go home with other people saying, okay. You know, you're both gross, right? You know, I know about the underwear in the bag, right?

Yeah. And then he's voted the JC's man of the year. Call me Colonel. So then in when he's in Waterloo, he ends up his wife goes out of town. He invites the 15 year old son of a fellow JC and a state senator over to the house to watch a stag film and get drunk. And he molests this boy. No shit. And then he told him you can't tell him because I've ties to the mafia in Chicago. Here's 50 bucks. Keep your mouth shut. And it works for a little while. It works for long enough so that he molests a second boy. And then finally one boy breaks and then the other one does and he gets arrested and he gets sent to prison probation for 10 years. Okay. The prison psychiatrist recommends that he not be released ever as he was a sexual sadist and could never be rehabilitated.

But he was so well behaved that he served 18 months. Fucking fuck, man. His wife divorces him. Swinging thing was one thing, but what the fuck. So he goes back to Chicago. While he's in jail, his father dies, has a heart attack and dies. And he's convinced it's because of what he did, which is probably true. So he goes and moves in. His mother helps him buy a house and they move in together and he's like trying to, you know, make good on all of his bad behavior. I feel bad about that. So they buy a house at 8213 West Somerdale Avenue in the Norwood

Wood Park. Anyone live there at that house? But for real though, you can't cheer if you don't actually live there. And we're all going there right now. And then in June of 1971, he starts his infamous contracting company business, I should say, called PDM, which stands for Painting, Decorating and Maintenance. What does it really stand for? Pedophile. Penis. Karen. It stands for penis, but he put DM after, just to throw people off. And here's the thing. He basically only hires teenage boys to work for him. Red flag. And when, I mean really, and when anybody asks him about it, he's like, they're more reliable than grown men. Teenage boys in the 70s. All right. Okay. There's like literal movies made about teenage boys in the 70s.

Being unreliable. Being unreliable. So, okay. So in January of 1972, when he is 29, 61, he picks up, he's single now. So he doesn't have to, no one's checking on him. I don't think his mother's really paying attention. Party. So one night he goes to the Greyhound bus station and he picks up a teenage runaway named Tim McCoy. And he takes him back to his house where they party. They have sex. It's, they believe that part was consensual. But then Gacy grabs a kitchen knife and stabs him to death. So this is his first kill. And he is also the first body that's buried in the crawl space. And because he was a runaway, no one ever knew the boy was missing. So the cops were never alerted.

Poor baby. So then, the next line is, then he remarries a woman named Carol. It's very easy for him to date for some reason. It's so funny how much more these people have their shit together than you and I. You mean me. You're married. No, I mean us. No, I heard, I heard what you were saying. I'm married by the string of my teeth. What do they say? I mean. It was a friend of his sisters from high school. And his, the sister again in a documentary is like, I mean, I didn't really see, you know, them together, but, you know, they seem happy. So, and it's just like, Oh, all right. So basically, he's just using her as body armor and then just like going about his day. So in 1975 is when he starts dressing up infamously

as Pogo the clown. Now, everybody's seen the pictures, but if you haven't, if you're from Norway or whatever, has anyone, they don't do that. He dressed up as a clown, but he did the makeup and there's like a rule in clown makeup where everything has to be rounded, everything's circular and rounded and like fun because you're staring into the face of children and Pogo the clown. They say like round shit. They love round shit. Donuts and cookies and fucking clown eyes. But John Wayne Gacy's clown makeup is pointy, pointy, pointy. It's the scariest thing. It's truly like a clown. Illuminati. Illuminati. Right. Fucking death trap. Light swastika on the forehead. So bad. Okay. So in 76, after three years of marriage, his wife leaves him just because, you

know, she just didn't feel like it anymore. I'm just not feeling it. So there's this story and this guy, Tony Antonucci tells the story on one of the documentaries. He was 16 at the time. He was working at the contracting company. John Wayne Gacy invites him over because this was the thing. It would be like, come up my house and let's smoke a joint and we'll have a couple drinks. We'll hang out. And then when the teenage boys would get there, he would be... So this guy was a high school wrestler. So John Wayne Gacy is like, oh, come on, Mr. Wrestler, show me your wrestling moves. And the guy's like, okay. That's such a thing. Yes. It's a real... All of that. It's a real thing. Yeah. Cause then you're high and then you're like, well, I'm not going to say no to my boss who wants

me to wrestle with him. Yeah. And then suddenly you're... You can though. Just know about. You guys. You can literally just put the joint down and be like, I'll see you tomorrow. You don't need to drink with older people. I don't know. Like anyone. My parents are older than me. And I drink with them. It's fine. Something about, you know, something is... There's something deep there. There's something in there. It's just... No, we're going to dig around with it. Just go with it. For sure. You don't need to drink with older people. The age range... It's pepper spray everyone. So basically, he challenges him to a wrestling match. And while they're wrestling, he throws a handcuff on one of Tony's wrists. And he tries to get the other wrist handcuff. And he's fighting

him and fighting him. And then he thinks he gets in. So, Gacy leaves the room. And then Tony, what had happened is he thought him so much that the handcuff was only clicked to like the first thing. So, he was able to pull his hand out of the handcuff. But then when Gacy walked back in the room, he kept his hand back behind his back so it still looked like he was handcuffed. And so, when Gacy came over to him, he fucking took him down. He did like a wrestling move, took him down to the ground. And Gacy goes, oh, you passed the test. So, then Tony's like, oh, okay. And then he just kept working for him. Oh. Yeah. I wanted that to end better. I mean, he was alive to tell the story. So, that's good. That's true. But it was that thing where he was like, you know, it's

your boss and you just, you want... It was a good job. They were probably making, you know, a good amount of money for high school boys. And it's such a weird story that there's no way to explain it to someone and sound like now you'd be like, this thing happened and that would be a classic assault. But now... But then it was just like, he's just goofing around. Yeah. You know, we got high in that thing where your boss wrestles you and handcuffs you. Didn't you work at the gap? That happened to you once at the gap, right? Yes. It happens all the time. It's normal. All right. So, basically, this is his... It turns out that this becomes Gacy's MO. It's either the handcuff trick or the magic rope trick. The magic rope trick was he would say, oh, I'm going to show you this

magic rope trick. And it was all around the fact that he was Pogo the Clown. So he'd like, like, I'm a clown. I have these tricks. I'm going to show you the tricks. Oh, no. So, it's such a nightmare. You're like kind of high, like, okay. Yeah. Like, even just the clown stuff, I'd be like, I'm sorry, I just had an emergency call. I have to leave. Like... They didn't have phones back then, right? That's right. They couldn't... They just had to sit there in their down vests being like, cool, man. The fucking rope trick, the magic rope trick is they stand there and he goes, so this is what I do. And then he would just throw a rope around their neck and fucking strangle them today. That was the magic rope trick. So, it was quick and bad. So, the problem was

that he hired these boys and a lot of them are written off as runaways when they would disappear. And oftentimes, it would come to him. So they'd be like, oh, he worked for you. Have you seen him lately? And Tony Antonucci tells him one of those stories. He said he was supposed to meet this boy, John Zick. And John Zick never showed up for the job they were supposed to go do together. And then, Gacy came up and goes, he called me and he said that he went to Cabo San Lucas. Yep. Yeah. Because that's where you go when you're a teenager. When you're a teenager by yourself. I'm just going to go. I'm going to quick seize. I just need to go down to the Mexican Riviera for a while. Real quick? Yeah. I'm going to go. I just need to take it easy. Goodbye. Oh, man.

So, at this point, oh, and also around this time, Gacy also put red lights in his car and would, when he would see a target, he would pull them over and say that he was an undercover cop and that he had to bring them in. He would handcuff them and then he would have them. Never pull your car over when you're getting followed by a cop. Tell them I said that. Which is also the thing the hillside sprinklers did. They posed as cops and pulled women over and would be like, you have a bunch of tickets to get into our car. Which is why you actually, I mean, I'm not fucking bullshitting now. You do want to pull over in a well-populated area. Yes. You don't want to, if you're, if some cop is stopping you on a fucking deserted road,

you're fucking getting off on the next stop in Parking in the McDonald's. You know what you're doing? You're high-speed chasing it. Bye. To a ball of some kind. Tell them your mother sent you, Karen and Georgia. So around this time, at this point, he's been getting away with murder for six years. Jesus. At the end of 1977, he'd killed 19 boys. Fuck. And by 1978, he was committing a murder every two to three weeks. Holy shit. Your town. I can't even vacuum every two to three weeks. There's so much dog hair on all my clothes at all times. Totally. Me too. The only reason we don't have it is because we packed these. I bought this here. All right. So his last victim, this was in December 1978, and it was 15-year-old

Robert Peast, and he worked part-time at a drug store in Des Plaines, Des Plaines. Des Plaines? It doesn't matter. So his mom, this, uh, Robert Peast's mom is in the parking lot to pick him up when his shift is over, but he goes, hold on a second. I met this guy who has a better job for me, and it's a really good paying job. I'll be right back. And he never comes back. They go out into the parking lot after 15 minutes, and he's nowhere to be seen. But here's the thing, and this is where, if you've ever seen, there's a movie where Brian Denne, he plays John Wayne Gacy, and you have to see it. It's so crazy because he was a crazy drunk and on pills. So by this point, he's been doing it and getting away with it for so long. He's like sloppy as

hell. He thinks no one's ever going to catch him, and he's just really sloppy. So the people in this drugstore knew who John Wayne Gacy was. The guy who always offers kids jobs. Exactly. Pogo the clown's here again. It's that guy who wears a sweet honesty t-shirt all the time. I brought it back around. Yeah. Thank you. It's called to bring it back around. Thank you. So anyway, they file a missing persons report. He is not a runaway. They can't blame it on any of that shit. This boy was an Eagle Scout, a loving family. So the cops, they trace it back to Gacy. The cops go to his house to question him at 3.30 in the morning when they finally trace it back. And he's super pissy. He's like really bitchy to the cops. Oh, no, I'm sorry. They go to his

house like at night, normal time, and he's really bitchy. He's like, I will come down to the station. I'll come down to talk to you. He shows up at 3.30 in the morning at the police station covered in mud. So they're like, could you take a seat in here, please? We just have a couple of questions to ask you. What the fuck? And they finally do a background check and see that he was convicted for sodomy in Iowa. And they're finally like, I think we've got the guy. So yeah, but can I just say that sodomy is a bullshit charge that they, because they didn't give him the, you guys, never mind. It's just a thing where they like didn't want to charge him a child molestation or give him a real fucking charge. They gave him 18 months because they gave him sodomy instead, which like

anyone could get sodomy. That's not what I mean. That's right. That's right. And if you're not comfortable with that, maybe it's your problem. They detain him at the police station. I mean, I don't know what to say. Okay. They detain him at the police station. They go and search Gacy's home and they find a trap door that leads down to the crawl space. And then a cop crawls down into the crawl space and they're like, there sure is a lot of lime down here. And they just come back up. They didn't find anything. They came. Yeah. Yeah. Someone said no. No, there's more on this paper. I swear to God. So what they do find is a bunch of jewelry that does not belong to him. And one of the things that

they found was a class ring with the initials JC inside it. And they trace that ring back to John Zick. His last name is spelled so insanely. It's C-Z-Y-S-Z-K or something like that. I just wrote it Z-I-C-K because I couldn't deal. But they basically see, they trace the ring, they get John's name, they go to the Zick home and they say, the mother tells them he's been missing since January 20th, 1977. And they're like, ding, ding, ding. Here we go. This is our guy. So then they start, they stake him out. And they have to get, they have to get a search warrant for his house. So while they're waiting, they put the surveillance team on his house. And Gacy is doing things like leading them on long, medium speed chases till dawn. Or like... He doesn't even know anyone's

following him. No, no, no. He does. He's doing it on purpose. Or he's buying them dinner. They're out there trying to order food or whatever. And then he just picks up the tab. He's fucking around. He can't ever get caught. But they get a second search warrant. And that's when... Oh, no, sorry. He invited them in for a fish dinner. And while the two cops were inside, one of them said, could I use your restroom? And when the cop goes into the restroom, he... They said it was around Christmas time, so the heater was on. And the cop walked into the bathroom. I keep saying restroom, but it's a home. He goes into the bathroom and smells death. And he's like, listen. What? Did you hear that? What? I just heard a ghost.

The heater vent came on, the air came out, and it was the smell of death. And he knew that this was... They had to search this house, basically. So essentially, bleep, bleep, bleep. Sorry. Oh, what they... How they finally got him was he had driven to a gas station and dropped off a bag of pot to somebody. So they got him on this really dumb charge, but they were able to hold him at the police station. They got the second warrant. They go into the house. They go into the crawl space. And after 15 minutes... Because they just didn't take enough time the first time. After 15 minutes, they're like, we have three bodies down here. And then it's on like Donkey Kong. And eventually, they find in that crawl space the 27

bodies of young men and boys. I feel so bad for those cops that had to do all that shit up. Even just the old footage is so upsetting looking. I haven't seen it. Yeah, you have to look at it. Was his mom just playing solitaire the whole time or something? No, she died at some point. I almost said... She's like, what's that, Johnny? I didn't hear you come in. I don't want to do the handcuff trick again. I don't want to. You know, you did that to me. I fell for it. There are my unbeads. So there's 27 bodies in the house. And then he admits that there are also six he dumped in the river. And that's when he was covered in mud at the police station. He had just dumped Robert Pease's body. He basically dumped it and went straight to the police station. Jesus. I mean...

He stands trial in February of 1980. He never shows an ounce of remorse. They put the victim's family members and friends on the stand. So everybody sees all of these boys and all their family and all the people that were affected. And in three hours, the jury finds him guilty on all counts. He's sentenced to death. And after 14 years of appeals, he's put to death on May 10th, 1994. His last words were, kiss my ass. He's a good guy. And his last meal was Kentucky Fried Chicken. That's right. That's cool. I mean, no, that's awful. I don't know. I don't kind of like it. I know. And then they destroyed that house, which I, when I first saw the footage of that, they like pulled the whole fucking thing down. And then I was like, that's a bit dramatic.

And then I was like, what am I talking about? Like what real estate agent could sell that fucking house? I like that killing 27 people isn't dramatic, but then tearing the house down. Tearing the house down. I was like, stop it, you guys. You're being nuts. You're being, what's the word? Dramatic. Yes. And that's Shawn Wayne Gacy. Good job, Chicago. Yeah. Thank you. All right, I hope you guys enjoyed the horrible, horrible story of John Wayne Gacy in a way that only Karen Kogarev could tell it. And that's been this week's episode. I hope you guys enjoyed my picks. This was such a fun thing to get to relisten to and relive a little bit because I don't think I've listened to it since I saw it live in person. And it's just,

it's just so cool to see how far the gals have come since then and beyond and looking into the future. And for if you're listening back to this from the future, man, you're welcome. And I'm Brandy Posey. I'll say that once again, I've been on the host of, one of the hosts of Lady to Lady. We're a podcast here on Exactly Right. I'm either co-host or Barbara Gray and Tess Barker. And every week, we have a fourth female comic on and it's just for women riffin that you don't get to hear very often. And I'm real proud of the show. It's like silly. It's fun. We play sleepover games. They're guests. It's a really fun show. We answer advice because we've all made a lot of mistakes and we want to save you for making the same. And we've got a really fun,

beautiful little community over there. So if you want to hear some people telling some, you know, telling you a bunch of stuff that they've done that you shouldn't do, Lady to Lady is the show for you. We're just a bunch of ants who have anted hard. Yeah. And you can find us wherever you listen to podcasts. And we're on Twitter and Instagram at Lady to Lady Comedy. And then every week, we also, we have our episodes of the drops on Wednesday. And then on Fridays, every week, we have the beef of the week, which is us just straight beefing about all sorts of things. Have I complained about the man in my trailer park that is a pathological liar that I like to just harass to the nth degree? Absolutely.

We were beefing about actual beef last week. So we get meta. No big deal. And that you can find over at Stitcher Premium or on our Patreon, patreon.com slash Lady to Lady. All right, everybody will enjoy your week. And hey, I get to say it this time, stay sexy and don't get murdered. Elvis, do you want a cookie?