My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 294 - Was It A Sandwich?

Episode Date: September 30, 2021

On this week's episode, Georgia and Karen cover the Hillsborough disaster and the story of the Lindow Woman bog body. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar. That's Karen Kilgaris. And we're here to talk to you about some important stuff having to do with multi-level marketing. That's right. Are you ready? Do you know your warranty is almost expired? If you buy this one pair of leggings is the only print of this that I have in stock for the next couple hours. Oh yeah. Karen has a whole box of those out in the garage. If you put them on all

at once, they look amazing. It's get attention at your next book club. Do it. Hey, are you reading any books? Yes. We got sent a box. Yeah, this is a problem because I don't have anything near me. But we got sent a box of books by a listener who works in a bookstore and sent us a bunch of books like that that was like dead stock from their true crime section. Totally. Yeah. Asia was like, I'm going to give you half and you half, Karen, and you guys can figure it out. And so I have like a bunch of John, like a John Walsh vintage book and like some Ann Rule in there. Totally. Yeah. So right now I'm reading a book about one of the first women who went searching for missing people essentially in the 70s and 80s. No way. Yes. Started to search and rescue and then went into

basically became a private detective and started, you know, for hire going to look for people who were missing. Wow. That's incredible. The book is called Finder, the true story of a private investigator. And it's by Marilyn Green. She's the finder. Wow. And Gary Provost. So you're going to cover her one day, do you think? I mean, yes, probably because there's it's one of those things where it's just her career. So she talks about all these different cases that she's been involved in. So there's definitely lots to choose from in there. I was just going to try to see when it was published. Because this this is totally the kind of book that would be on my mom's nightstand. Yeah, that you'd sneak. It was published in 1988. The year I graduated from high

school. Pretty, pretty fascinating. I mean, it was one of those kind of things where I was trying to read Moby Dick. I think I told you that. That's right. Very dense book. Hard pass. Hard pass. I loved I loved trying to read it. And I it's the kind of thing where I just I'm pretty sure I have ADD I would have to pull a piece of paper down line by line so that I can read forward and scan and do a bunch of shit. But then after a while, it wasn't it was almost felt like I was getting into bed and starting homework assignments. Yeah, these are the kind of books where I read until I can't open keep my eyes open anymore. That reminds me of when I was in high school and I was like declaring myself an atheist. So I was like, OK, but if you're going to be an atheist, you have

to be informed. So I made myself try to read the Bible. No. No, that was confusing. I did not get very far. Here's the thing. It's really old. So old. And there's a ton of numbers in there, which are not like normal books. And it's like fucking learned basic grammar. You know what I mean? Like, oh, my doubt and say this and smiting it off. Lord. No, thank you. So I just decided to just be an atheist that doesn't know a lot about the Bible instead. I mean, you know, you can just be like, it's more of a conceptual thing. But if you can bring me some piece of the Bible that you think I'd love, I'm open to it. You could do it that way. Can you jump around? Let me get your favorite part of the Bible and I'll jump around. I don't think it's

chronological. I think you can jump around and just go from Psalms to fucking revelations, make it happen for yourself. That's right. I studied the Torah in Hebrew school. I've done enough, you know? Wow. I mean, you're kind of a biblical scholar. Kind of right. I'm basically a biblical doctor right now. Tad, can I ask you a question? I'm not trying to question you having said you just studied the Torah. Yeah. Am I wrong in thinking that the Torah is the Old Testament? Yeah. Part one. So, okay. It's not a different Jewish book. No. The Torah is the Old Testament. Yeah. It's the Bible. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. So I was going to try to read part two, and I just couldn't get there. Nobody likes, you know, what's the word I'm trying to look for?

Yes. Thank you, shit. Sequels always drop the ball. The Bible, electric boogaloo. I mean, I mean, it's such a downer at the end. I kill him. What are you reading besides the Bible? Oh, that's my book. I'm on my bed. I'm on my bed right now. So I'm reading a book called The World Gives Way by Marissa Levine. And it's a total sci-fi end of the world apocalypse book. Perfect. About like a thousand years in the future, we had to escape Earth on a pod. And there are like different caste systems, and like suddenly there's a rip in the side of the fucking ship that is now Earth and end of the world. It's really good. You know, I love a good apocalypse. Yeah. It's for some reason, these days, apocalypse stories are very satisfying. And

oh, yeah. They really are doing it. Well, it's nice when you're living in one to have someone. To be like, is this possibly what could happen? Because it would be just nice to have any kind of guide. Yeah. Yeah. Well, here's an here's something to counteract that apocalyptic vibe. Great. Also, Mercury's in retrograde. Oh, is it? Again. Shit. Or it's about to be. But I'm not, I try not to get too specific about that. But I have to give credit where credit is due because at TC Liddell or Liddell on Twitter, they let me know that season two of Love on the Spectrum had begun. Right. Which is an amazing Netflix series about people who are on the autism spectrum or who are neuro divergent, I believe is the term. And they are trying, they're trying to date some

for the first time in their adult lives. Season one was probably a year ago in the pandemic. Like unbelievable, beautiful Australian television making season two is just as good. A lot of the people are back again. It's beautiful, beautiful television, but it will it will break you emotionally. Like you have to, you know, you can't be coming off something hard and then go into Love on the Spectrum because you'll just be a mess for days. You'll just cry the whole time at the end of it. It's got a big heart. It's a really big hearted show. Right. And it's also kind of like, it's the thing where I think a lot of people who like to believe that they are not neuro divergent, although bring me, bring me the person that isn't.

But a lot of people watch that show and think, Oh, look at them. That's their experience and what you, as you watch the show, you realize everything they're saying and everything they're worried about and everything they're excited about. That's what everyone is like when it comes to Love. Totally. It's the same across the board. So it's like, it's actually a show about you. You're watching yourself try to date. You're watching yourself try to be vulnerable and try to be authentic. And a lot of the people on the show are so good at it. They're so themselves. Yeah. Their concern is just, I'm going to be myself. I hope they like me as opposed to a lot of people who are just like, well, mask number 16 will go on and then we'll see how this

goes. Yeah. Or you get through your whole life in a mask instead of having to be your authentic self and never find true love because you just don't have the capabilities to be 100% authentic and assume or hope someone will love you. Yeah. For that reason. It's very like, it gets to the heart of a lot of things. It's real sensitive TV viewing. It's real good. Real good. I'll watch it. The only thing that's been in my house lately, we've just evolved into this point of all we watch are Guy Fieri shows. That's all we watch now. He's like, drivers and drive-thrus and divans. All of those things. Guy's Grocery Games is another great one that we're big fans of. What's that? Is it like a game show? It's like, yeah.

So you, so he has this like fake grocery store setup and chef contestants come on and it's like, okay, you have to make me a, you know, spicy lunch with these parameters. And then it's like supermarket sweeps where they have to run through the grocery store picking out all the things. Yes. You know, with like hardcore parameters like added in last minute. It's just a really fun game show. Like gluten issues. Make me a dish. Yeah. Exactly. Or now you have to use this one ingredient. You have to use sriracha in your dessert. Go. Yeah. It's fun. Oh, that sounds fun. Yeah. That. And then we watched Cat Williams till like two in the morning. Oh, the funniest. The funniest. His first special we watched. It was a dream. A dream. He's a genius.

Is that the one where he does that thing where he has a DJ give the cue every day. I'm hustling, hustling. And he keeps being like different scenarios. No, I would say that part. He's in green. He looks like a hilarious leprechaun. That man is such a good standup comic. He is such it's just amazing. Someone I saw people talking about him on Twitter one time saying you will almost never see a comic open because I think they were talking about his most recent special. You'll never see a comic open up and start doing local jokes and kill. Totally. Like that almost never happens. But this guy, because it's the one where he filmed it in Florida, I believe. And he was just doing like, you know, Florida jokes and wherever they were, I can't remember

what city, but it was amazing. And you didn't have to. Right. You didn't have to know to know. The audience is loving it so much that you're enjoying it with them. Because even if you don't understand, like even if you've never been to a waffle house, you can understand his joke about a fucking waffle house. Like it makes sense. You get the he paints the picture perfectly for you. Cat Williams. Everyone just sit and fucking watch his documentary. I mean, watch the watch the master. There's a I think we're supposed to tease this. There's a brand new Nick Terry animated that is on the exactly right media YouTube page. You can go right now and watch it. Oh, it's a classic. He is a comedy genius. It's got nothing to do with us. He just takes some

like little snippet of a thing we say in this case. I disagree. No, he's so good. He's so good. This one is about this is from a hometown. It's about the can of peaches and a dick. And it's just the funny. What do you need? What more do you need? It's the funniest video. What's our YouTube account? Exactly right media. Exactly right media. Okay. You said that already. Good. Yeah. Go check. Well, you please also subscribe to our channel. It helps. It helps. Everything helps subscribing to things, being a part of things, showing up. Yeah. Telling a friend. It also helps. High-fiving. All of it. Pictures of your animals. Just whatever you need. All of it. Yeah. Anything else?

Should we just get this thing started? No, yeah, let's get this started. Jesus, is that a record for the quickest intro? Maybe. You know, we're back into recording again. So things are moving along. It feels like we finish one recording and we turn around and here we go. Yes. It's happening again. And the imbalance of what I'm doing in my life versus how much we're recording is really going to start showing pretty soon. Right. Yeah. When we actually could leave the house regularly, have lives, do things, talk to people. The recording, the intros would be 45 minutes. Yeah. But there are things to say. This 15 minutes reflects the lack of things that are happening in our fucking lives. And literally everyone's like, we like it that way.

Stop talking. Just tell the fucking story. Okay. All right, fine. I will. I'm first, right? Yep. Okay. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping and prepping handled, HelloFresh has you covered. HelloFresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. HelloFresh meals are convenient, seasonal and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly. Why stop with just dinner? Now you can enjoy HelloFresh's expanded menu of quick lunch solutions, weekend brunch, simple side dishes and amazing desserts. Karen, January is going to be my

month for HelloFresh. I am so sick of takeout. I miss cooking so much. I haven't lifted a knife or a pan since like early fall. So I can't wait to get back in the kitchen and HelloFresh makes it so easy and also makes it so that my food tastes good, which is hard to do on my own. It gives you everything, everything you need. So get up to 20 free meals with purchase plus free shipping on your first box at hellofresh.ca slash murder 20 with code murder 20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder 20 and use code murder 20. Goodbye. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong and on my new podcast Killer Psyche Daily,

I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton Serial Killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psyche Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today.

All right, Erin. So this week's story, as they always do, is going to stick with me for the rest of my life, partly because it's a story. It's just a tragedy that could have had so many opportunities to be avoided. And there were so many missteps and mishandlings. And then on top of that, the families of the victims had a fight for justice. So this is the story of the highest death toll in British sporting history, the Hillsborough disaster. Oh God. I know. I've seen, I've seen, I think video of this, I think. Yes. There's a 30 for 30 about it, which is great. So my sources today are, there's like a bunch of BBC News staff articles, of course, there's a BBC podcast about it. There's a YouTube video about it. And then there's actually the report of the Hillsborough

independent panel. I also watched the Sky News documentary, the 30 for 30, and a Britannica article, and of course, Wikipedia. So there is a myriad of reasons why this disaster occurred. And there are all these like little and big things that added up to this day that made it so that so many people lost their lives. So like, if you had taken one of those, or two of those little things out of the equation, it might not have been such a huge disaster. So let me go through, let's start with going through the day. So Saturday, April 15, 1989, the Football Association cup is holding the semifinal match between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest. And it's being held at the Hillsborough Stadium in Sheffield, South Yorkshire, England. So I guess you and I have been to a

football match, a soccer match in England when we were there last time. Yes, we were. It was incredible. And so just as everyone knows, soccer or football, as it's known in England, is huge. It's like the biggest thing. It's our baseball and football put together. Families go it like you live in a town and like that's your team. And you're just like, you're just like, it's the same as here with baseball or football, like that is your home team. And you will wear stupid cheese hats and paint your body and like buy all the things because you're so obsessed with them. It's your life. It's like part of the life and culture there. And one of the things when we were at that game, you and me and Vince, after our London show, the songs, the chants, there was a whole like,

everyone has a chance. And it's really big groups of people all knowing the words to those songs and cheering and doing it. It's really, it's moving to the point of being a little bit scary. It's powerful. It's very powerful. And it is like, it is this huge, you know, we went in, there's people, it's like when you go into a baseball game and you walk down to get to the stadium and you feel that huge rush and it's so exciting. It's that but like happy, excited British people. So it's just like this surge. We should probably say, for the most part, British men. I don't. Yes. I think you and I and maybe three other gals were there. That's right. To me. Yes. But it is this like, it's their culture. It's what they do. You go to

these matches. You support these clubs and you yell at other people about how they're wrong about supporting their clubs and depending on where you're from. You know what I mean? Yep. So British people are going to get real mad at me for this one. You're just explaining sports. I am just the concept of sports and you're not going to believe it. There's snacks and beer there and clapping and clapping. There's a ball on the field. There's players doing things to the ball. It's really exciting. Yeah. But I do think there's like a fervor there about their football that doesn't really translate to like maybe maybe our football is the closest. Right. Right. Okay. So so this is the game between the Liverpool Club and the Nottingham Forest Club. It's being held

in Sheffield, which so it's kind of like an even playing field because it's neither of the town neither of the team's town. South Yorkshire. So this is the semifinals. So it's the second biggest game ever. Obviously the finals being the biggest makes sense. So anyone with a ticket is super stoked to go. It's a beautiful sunny warm day. Perfect weather. The match is sold out. More than 54,000 fans are expected to enter Hillsborough Stadium before the 3 p.m. kickoff. And so due to what's known as football hooliganism, which basically means people get drunk and fight and beat up the other teams, players or whatever, Liverpool fans are entered through a separate entrance than the Nottingham Forest fans. It's just two different sides of the stadium.

When we went, we sat in a part for people who weren't fans of either team or just like spectators. But is that true? Yeah. But you could see that like this team over here was singing for I think it was Manchester. We were there for like they are seated in different sections. So that there's no cups. There's cups that are posted down the stairs to keep people in their sections. That's right. Or to protect people like the away team. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Okay. So the entrance for the Liverpool ticket holders is on what's known as Lepping's Lane. It's the street on one side of the stadium. So over 10,000 people have tickets for that area. It's the standing room only section known as the terrace. So all these 10,000 fans can only enter through this Lepping's

Lane entrance. And it only has seven turnstiles for 10,000 people trying to get there before three o'clock. So clearly that's inadequate to begin with. Once they're through the turnstiles, then fans make their way to the terrace pens or to the sections either through a tunnel that's right in front of them or two less obvious side entrances that you can't even see. When you walk through the turnstiles, you just see this one entrance and you think, well, this is must be the way to go to all of them. But it's not the terrace itself or the standing room only section is it's basically just like shallow concrete steps. So it's like a little, you know, you stand, there's a step down, there's step down, there's step down. And then there's barriers, like every

few steps to keep people from like pushing forward. So then there are also lateral fences dividing the terrace into pens. So you can't like it's not like a whole thing. It's like, this is a pen for 1000 people, this one next to it's pen for 1000 people, you can't go between them. It's basically like an animal pen. It's like clearly a bad design when you just look at it. And there's only and the only exits are through the back. So if you go in and get to the front, you can't just turn around and go back if they're totally full. Right. And then there's also a fence in the front to prevent people from going on to the field. And that the front of each pen located on the perimeter fence, there's a small gate, but it's locked by two o'clock, just over 2000 fans has

have entered the terrace. And most of them are in pens three and four, which is the one that you walk forward into. They have capacities of 1000 and 1100 people. And one of the other reasons they're most popular, aside from being able to just walk right into them is that they're are directly behind the goal. So they're like incredible seats or oh, yeah, it's incredible spot to be. But there's no security, there's no staff telling and it defends where to go or using the crowd control to make sure like you don't have to just walk down this hallway, you can actually go over there. There should be people telling everyone where to go to disperse the crowd properly. By 215, a large crowd is gathering outside Lepping's Lane

by the turnstiles trying to get through them. So there's only 30 minutes left until kickoff. And there's just over 4300 fans that have made it through the turnstile. And there's another 5000 still waiting their turn to get through those seven turnstiles. An announcement is made over the loudspeaker asking the fans in those two pens three and four to move forward or spread out sideways or to move to a different pen. But there's no way for them to do it. They'd have to backtrack and go out through the back exits where people are pushing their way in. So it's not that easy. By 235, there are so many people in Lepping's Lane that fans are pressed against the turnstile and they become difficult to even operate and people start to be jammed up just

in the turnstiles alone. And there's video of this. It's yeah. Inside the stadium, the pens three and four are reaching capacity already. Police officers discussed delaying the game until all the fans have made it to the terrace, but it's dismissed. That idea is dismissed. Instead, at 252 p.m. Yorkshire Police Chief Superintendent David Duckinfield, who had little experience policing soccer matches, he gives the order to open the exit gate that's right next to the turnstiles, but they normally would have opened to let people leave. Open it, just let people in so we can relieve this crowding. So the gate stays open for about five minutes, but it's enough time to let a huge surge of fans into the stadium at once. So this is kind of the

tipping point, it seems. Like there's so many errors that have already been made and so many problems with, you know, policing the crowd. But this seems like the surge that tips everything over. So around 2000 fans now start walking to the terrace via that tunnel that's already almost at capacity, completely unaware that they'll be forced into pens three and four. And as the tunnel quickly fills with fans, the people in the front of the pen start to get pushed up against that gate behind the goal. This is making me panic. And I don't think I'm a person that's like that, like, has claustrophobia or anything. But this idea of being stuck in a crowd, like an unmanaged crowd really upsets me. I fucking hate, I hate the idea.

I think that's why I, a couple of times when I was watching video and like the documentaries, I got lightheaded. This is what I do have problems with claustrophobia and crowd. And so I don't think, but I don't think anyone needs to have a fear of that to understand how terrifying this is. Yeah, this is horrible. And I think this is one of the many reasons that this one is just like, it sticks with you. It reminds me of the one you did of the Who concert. Was that right? Yep. Same fucking story. Yeah. I mean, it's just horrible. Yep. So now that the gate was opened, this surge of people were able to come in. Around 2000 fans now start walking to the terrace via the tunnel. They're totally unaware that they'll be forced into pens three and four,

which are already packed. So people in the front of the pen start to get pushed against the front gate, you know, where there's a locked door and then the wall is really high. And it's like, you know, when fences at the top are turned in so that people can't climb over them just because of hooliganism, you know, but no one thought about safety. Right. Exactly. Well, yeah, they're more concerned with keeping people off the pitch. Right. Yeah. Hey, you're in the word pitch. I pay attention when we go to things in London. I'm impressed. So some fans start escaping by climbing over the side fences to get into the pens that are next to them, where there's like nobody in them, by the way, like if there had been some kind of crowd control, this would have never

happened. Oh no. I know. You mean that the things right next to them are empty or like almost empty, but and like, they're the kind of walls that it's like, you'd have to be a strong, young person to be able to climb that fence. Like I, as a 41 year old woman, would never be able to yank myself up there. But I think people are helping each other, boosting each other out to get to the side pens. But then at 254, as all these people are making their way in, the players go onto the field. And so fans in the stadium start cheering, which means the people who are going down the tunnels think something's happening and starting and so they start pushing forward even more like an excitement. And so that happens again, when the game starts at 259. And

then again, five minutes later, when Liverpool takes a shot at the goal, so everyone goes wild. So even more people start pushing their way in down that tunnel. Yeah, it's terrifying. So there's just this surge of people moving forward. At this point, one of the crush barriers, which is basically just a metal rail to keep people like, you know, here's a little group of people, here's a little group like one of those metal rails collapses under the weight of all the people, which just tells you how crazy like it's a metal fucking railing in concrete. So that thing collapses, which means a bunch of people topple forward again. So on to the people in the front. I know this is terrifying.

And more increased pressure on those in the front of the pens. So fans are beginning to be so crushed, they can't breathe, and those in the front are losing consciousness. Oh my God, I know. As pens three and four continue to fill to the brim, and you can see it in these videos, it's like this swaying surge of humans, like some people you can tell don't really know what's going on. And they're like cheering for the team thinking this is normal. Some people you can tell are being knocked off their feet. And so they're like trying to control it, but it's just this wave of humans. Yeah, at this point, there's too many people to have like one guy go hold on, this or that. Everyone go. There's people in the front who can't breathe,

like there's just so many people. So as they fill the police officers interpret the crowd being unruly instead of actually being filled to capacity. So they think there's quote signs of quote signs of potential disorder. And consequently, they were the cops were slow to realize that spectators being crushed, injured and killed, they thought they were just being hooligans. Fans screamed to police officers to like from over the gate to unlock the front gate, but the police do nothing quote, they just seem transfixed, like they didn't know what was going on. There's nobody in charge telling them how to handle a situation like this. They've never been prepped for safety only how to control hooligans, not for like fan safety. Fans try to escape the

pen any way they can. So people in the upper tiers in the level ahead above them, which is like the height of two or three people. So the people in the pen start lifting other people up to the rafters above them. And those people lean over and just pull them to safety. And it's it's heart wrenching to see that happen horrifying. Like all all the fans are realizing something is not fucking right and are trying to save each other and help each other and the police at one point think it's hooliganism and they think that they're trying to get onto the field. So they start pushing them back down into the pen. No. Yeah. It's ugly. It's fucking horrible. So yeah, they think that the fans are trying to rush the field when really they're just trying to get

to fucking safety. Yeah. Fuck. At three o' six p.m. police finally realize people in pens three and four are being crushed and tell the referee to stop the game finally. Eventually the small locked gates at the front of the pens are open and fans start cascading out. I looked it up about like there's like a article I think it's The Guardian that tells you times estimated times when people died and it's estimated the first person may have died at two fifty seven. Meaning by three o' six p.m. when the police finally realized what was actually going on and unlock the gate. It had been like 10 minutes of people dying before the authorities intervened. Meanwhile. Okay. This is fucked up too. There's just a huge game. Right. Like this is a semi finals

which means people at home are watching the game live on TV and listening to it on the radio. Meaning the people whose family and friends are at this game in the fucking they know they're in standing room only are listening and watching this fucking happen. Oh my God. Yeah. So hundreds of people are able to make it out of the pens and onto the field. Many fans start helping rescue others who are still stuck or injured because no ambulances had arrived since no authority figures had called them. Like it took them a while to realize what was even going on. And the ambulance too were kind of negligent and saying like well we can't send that many ambulances like what and they weren't told the enormity of the situation. So they're still not there. So fans start ripping

down like the advertisements and using them as stretchers to carry the injured to across the field of the gymnasium hoping that they can receive medical attention there. So like this is not fucking hooligans. These are fans trying to help save each other. Yeah. It's it's truly like that's all you have is the kindness of the strangers around you. Totally. If you're like if your ribs got crushed and you can't breathe. Yeah. Exactly. At three fifteen an ambulance finally makes its way through the crowd. Depends three and four. One ambulance another ambulance another ambulance shows up. Clearly it's nowhere near enough to help. Eventually the gymnasium becomes the makeshift morgue because only fourteen of the fans who lost their lives were ever even

able to make it to the hospital. That's how long like they could have been saved if they had gotten to the hospital but because there was no ambulances there to take them. Only fourteen made it. In total ninety six men women and children lost their lives that day. Oh my god. I know. I only was thinking about men. I didn't. I did not think about of course there were kids there. The youngest victim was ten years old. Oh my god. You bring your kids to the game. The oldest victims was sixty seven. You bring your grandpa brings. Yes the tradition. It's tradition. I mean like oh my god. It's horrible. Two like teenage sisters were killed together like there's an article on ITV news of how and when all ninety six victims died and it tells you a

little bit about each of the victim. If you want to check that out. But yeah it's you know it's heartbreaking. It's just normal people and they went that day with their friends to see this really exciting game that they probably seen a million like at their whole lives and did not expect this obviously. Yeah. So South Yorkshire police officials including the chief constable of South Yorkshire police Peter Wright are immediately like that evening start casting blame on the fans and the victims themselves. They alleged that they were drunk and disorderly in fact Deccanfield the Yorkshire police chief superintendent David Deccanfield claims that the fans had forced open that gate the exit gate not that he had actually ordered

it open to relieve the crowds. So he lies and says that they were so disorderly they broke it open. The media tabloid outlets start running with this angle that the Liverpool fans are to blame for everything. They say they broke into the stadium and caused an in rush and the pens three and four which caused the fatal crushing and also that people who didn't have tickets were part of the like reason there were so many people there which isn't true. This story is broadcast internationally. This is the this is the angle that goes out and this is the like this is the explanation in everyone's minds immediately which is you know that explanation that ends up sticking is whatever comes out first. On April 19th the fucking tabloid The Sun publishes a blasphemous front page article

titled The Truth which details how Liverpool fans had quote assaulted and urinated on police officers who were trying to resuscitate the dying stolen like pickpocketed the dead and verbally and sexually abused an unconscious woman like they were like just blasting out these rumors. None of it straight up lies. Straight up lies that it turns out later were told to them and like facilitated by the higher ups. Oh no. Yeah. Actually it's later found out that the daughter of chief inspector of South Yorkshire police David Sumner was one of the people who put in an anonymous tip that she had heard that someone in the crowd like tried to sexually assault a unconscious woman. God that's dirty. I mean that is very really gross. That is like

here's the thing. Accountability. Yes. Really fucks people up sometimes. Yes. It's just like here's the thing if you did wrong and there's a tragedy what you do is you say you're sorry you take accountability and then you fucking piece out. Yeah. And you take your pension or whatever because or your punishment or your punishment because you shouldn't be in charge anymore because you are on the clock. You're the one getting the money. Yeah. For being the big guy. Yeah. So something fucks up. Like that idea is has slowly left a kind of humanity. Absolutely. Where it's just like no you're right. Go sow some shit in the tabloids. Yeah. Well that will solve it. Yeah. We can't take accountability for this even though it happened at our fucking stadium

on TV on TV with our fucking police force and our security and our ambulance and 96 96 people don't accidentally fucking die. Like that's not that's not a thing unless it's a legitimate accident which is even that is so hard to like pin down on what that is because they're still not accountable. Don't die at a soccer game. Right. Right. All right. So within days of the disaster Lord Justice Taylor is appointed to inquire into the events and to quote make recommendations about the needs of crowd control and safety at sport events. On August 1st 1989 he publishes his report which concludes that the fans were not responsible for the disaster and the quote real cause was overcrowding and the main reason was the failure of police control. So finally someone is acknowledging that

but it doesn't last so don't cheer yet. Taylor criticizes senior officers for not closing pens three and four after gate C had been opened and not doing this caused a blunder of the first magnitude quote. Taylor points to match commander chief superintendent David Duckinfield for failing to give orders or quote exert any control when the disaster occurred. So not only did he he say that he wanted gate C open to get the crowd in he didn't tell the officers on the ground that he had done that. So they also thought that this was just a surge of people breaking the door down. So he lied to everyone about it. Wow. Because of his inaction the police had a quote sluggish reaction and response which hindered the rescue of dying fans. Taylor also points to Duckinfield

for leading many officials to believe the fans were responsible. He says quote this was not only untruthful it also quote initiated a vilification campaign directed towards Liverpool fans. So the whole you know society was like fuck you you guys caused this in a way saying you deserve this. And meanwhile those who are hurt and dead and the families are having to like fight against society blaming them or like yeah this this concept that's get gets floated because I what I remember from that just like you know the most the remotest files of remembering the story was the picture of people trying to the other fans trying to lift the fans yeah that whole thing and the idea that that's it's like sewing the story that people aren't good right and that's

being sewn by people who aren't good right the people on the ground and the people that were going through it actually displayed the ultimate like humanitarian right I care about my fellow man type of thing and they were doing everything they could. And that this isn't supposed to happen here. Another thing that's really disturbing is a lot of these tabloids and put photos on the covers of the close-up of people getting crushed against the fence. So you can see recognizable faces of people possibly already dead. It's really fucking troubling. Okay so he found that only a small minority of fans had even been drinking but they didn't cause the overcrowding and there was no hooliganism. So what follows is decades of the families of the victims being put through hell

to try to get justice and answers and for someone to take fucking accountability. In 1990 the Crown Prosecution Service decides there is insufficient evidence to justify criminal proceedings against anybody from any organizations for any offense arising out of the deaths. So it's just like boop out of sight out of mind stop fucking worrying about it. In 1991 an inquest jury returns a verdict of accidental death meaning it was just a fucking accident. Okay in 1997 when another inquest is requested then Prime Minister it's later found out Tony Blair made a note across the paperwork saying why what's the point. Oh yeah so 20 years go by and then in 2009 then Labor Ministers Andy Burnham and Maria Eagle finally resolve to call for

all documents relating to the disaster to be published. In January 2010 the home security appoints the Hillsborough Independent Panel to do three things investigate the disaster disclose documents about the disaster and its aftermath and produce a report. So finally in September 2012 the panel publishes its report and a website containing 450,000 pages of material. The panel concludes that the main cause of the disaster was an overall quote lack of police control. Other factors like crowd safety, customs and practices and the response of police and emergency services also played a part. It says that as many as 41 deaths could have been averted by better rescue efforts alone. The 41 human beings. Some of the findings that were on the day

that disaster police officers and stewards were only worried about crowd management not safety and they were so busy making sure no hooliganism was going on that they failed to realize all the fatal mistakes. Lack of communication between those on Lepping's Lane and those inside the stadium just a complete failure and breakdown of you know crowd response and crowd control and safety. It also comes out police officers who were there that day were discouraged from telling their true account of what they witnessed. Giving like false reports and testimony. 116 officer statements about the incident were changed to remove unfavorable comments about how the South Yorkshire police handled the situation. For example the word chaotic was removed from any paperwork.

So it's not to seem like they had anything to do with it. Following the panel's report a second coroner's inquest is finally held. The first one took place in 1991 and after hearing very biased evidence the jury found that all victims had died accidentally. But at the end of the second inquest the jury finds that all victims were quote unlawfully killed. Which means someone is responsible for this. Yeah. Following the second inquest six people are charged with various offenses in relation to the Hillsborough disaster. The most serious of the charges goes to Duck and Field. He's charged with the 95 counts of manslaughter by gross negligence. Sadly after two trials he's acquitted. Leaving the family members of the victims devastated

and angry over the egregious lack of accountability. Leader of the House of Commons Jacob Reis Mogg says that the lack of accountability over Hillsborough is quote the greatest scandal of British policing of our lifetimes. Multiple members of parliament call for laws to be changed quote to prevent another catastrophic failure of justice. So like let's avoid both this kind of disaster from happening again. But let's also make sure that there's some accountability if something like this happens again as well by changing the laws. Like it's just failure after failure. Because it is a second disaster. It's like this horrible thing happens to these people. And then the second disaster is they're blamed. Just picture it. Your loved one is smashed against a fence on

the cover of some fucking piece of shit tabloid. Like it's just it's like a horrible situation. And then they went and made it as bad as they possibly could. And one of the interviews with a victim's sister she says that that night they had to go identify her brother's body. And then they just kept them at the police station like with the people like in a random room not even treating them like they were victims. They treated them like troublemakers like the whole the families of the right because they're those the police are seeing this thing explode in front of them of like oh no all these people have a voice all these right are going to this is all going to like settle down and then they're going to see what happened and it's that thing of like we fucked

up we fucked up we fucked up like don't don't say sorry or you're taking accountability for it or don't be yeah exactly just keep deflecting oh it's really ugly really evil. So while the families still hope for justice that could possibly never come they maybe find solace in knowing that people haven't forgotten the victims. For one thing Rupert Murdoch's the son that was so blasphemous and terrible has been completely boycotted in Liverpool. So it's been 30 fucking years since that happened and people in Liverpool refuse to buy it a lot of shops refuse to sell it they're just like fuck you it's pretty amazing like banning together to just completely tell Rupert Murdoch to fuck off you know. Right that makes sense because I'm pretty sure it was the son

there was a story I did and I had an article from it and several people let me know on Twitter like it's garbage you should not be ever referring to because it's like that kind of stuff over here it's all you know I don't know it's it's seen we see it in the national national choir kind of way where it's like it's so obvious that it's fake right tabloids over here have a goofy kind of you know like bat boy you think of it as this like this ridiculous silly thing exactly and not as like well nowadays not the daily paper yeah but nowadays you rely upon fake news is just the norm now but I think back then it was taken at face value you know right there are also nearly 20 memorials erected in memory of the victims on the anniversary of

the disaster flags are flown at half mast and many people hold moments of silence or visit memorials to pay their respects for the 96 innocent victims of the Hillsborough disaster and that and that is the highest death toll in British sporting history the Hillsborough disaster that's here's why I love what that you did that story is because in my mind the the hooliganism element of that story is what stuck out is like is what I kind of had it labeled under yeah but it was also such a kind of distant thing it was just like oh man they're out of control like right the idea that it was turned around onto the victims as being like basically they got what they deserve totally disgusting yeah it looks like a crowd writing but it's

it's fucking not yeah wow good job thank you here's what's interesting my story also takes place in foggy old England town and it's fascinating to me it involves several of the things I find fascinating this is the story we'll just oh so there's no spoilers I'll just say this is the story of the lindo woman okay so so the sources for this sciencehistory.org there's an article called bodies in the bog the lindo mysteries by Dave Samet and Chantel Craig the beauty who wed a beast from the Liverpool Echo newspaper unearthing the living dead from the male and guardian Europe's famed bog bodies are starting to reveal their secrets by Joshua Levine and Smithsonian magazine I actually went

down a real Smithsonian magazine I bet hole as well because there's so many there's like as they're discovering stuff they're just they're doing the things of like looking into the stomachs and being like now this this was here and they they're trying to figure out if they were human sacrifices were they drugged beforehand so that it wasn't such a negative experience but then you know it's also like what are they what did they have on their on their persons like what was in their pockets and what was what were they buried with kind of a thing yeah so cool the British museum.org has a web page called curators comments that there's great information on and then of course there's the lindo woman's Wikipedia page very cool this takes place in northwest England

so in Cheshire County there's a 1500 acre bog called lindo moss and it formed after the ice from the last ice age melted about 11,000 years ago and the wet acidic conditions of the swampy land leads to the formation of peat which is decomposed vegetable matter and so when you cut and dry out peat and peat moss it serves as fuel or mineral rich soil for crops I love a good peat bog or good bog right so like creepy and like so creepy mysterious well and back in the like the the druid times right they believed that bogs were where because it's basically bogs take place there's no there can't be trees around so it's like under an open sky there's water and land mixed together in this mysterious ways and sometimes the bog would release gases and the

gases mixed with any kind of a low-lying fog would look like sparkles and people thought they were fairies sure and so for a long time people believed that bogs were like a place like a portal to another world because that's where right it makes me think of the labyrinth I don't know why like a boggy creepy yes like somewhere where like a hero in a unicorn would get stuck totally and try to make it out right or the never ending story yeah sure so essentially in the 1400s and the 1500s the locals would dig for peat and first they do it by hand which made me think of the hilarious scene from Monty Python's Holy Grail where it's like I'm not a man I'm a woman you know the thing where the the guy he's like I'm your king

and they're like they're just digging in the mud yeah that is what people did yeah because they used it to they used it like coal and they also used it for their crops so they would dig by hand then later after the industrial revolution by mechanical excavators to be sold and used for fuel and soil so on May 13th 1983 two peat diggers Andy Mould and Steven Dooley they're manning one of these excavation conveyor belts when they see a round object sticking out of the peat so they think it must be an old soccer ball so they take it off the belt but when they clean off the dirt they see it's actually a human skull it's missing a jawbone but other than that it's intact it's almost an intact human head there's still hair skin and any even an eyeball in one sock oh my

god so they immediately alert their manager a man named Ken Harewood and Ken calls the police so basically they do some forensic testing and they learn the authorities learn the skull most likely belong to a woman who was being between 30 and 50 years old and immediately the cops think of a case that has been like basically in the area and gone cold and unsolved for a really long time and it's the 1961 disappearance of a woman named Malika de Fernandez so the investigators had always suspected that her husband Peter Reinbart had murdered her but because they'd never found her body they couldn't prove anything and the case had been called for 23 years so now they think they've got their big break so in the 1950s we'll talk

about Malika first and her husband so in the 50s 32 year old Malika Maria de Fernandez is working as a portrait artist and she works part-time as a waitress at a coffee shop in Manchester probably a tea shop but i want you to understand what i'm talking about so i'll say a coffee shop so one evening appreciate you right right that's called supporting you that's called translating for you so one evening in 1959 she's serving tea to an executive for the british overseas airways corporation and his name is Peter Reinbart they the two quickly hit it off in less than two hours after meeting Peter proposes to Malika what and they get married four days later no yes okay here's the thing this is not love at first sight like we'd want to

believe it is because it's kind of more of a business arrangement Peter is actually gay well but at this time in England being openly gay is against the law and it would remain illegal in England until 1967 Jesus so if anyone found out that Peter was living as a gay man he could lose his job he could face jail time so basically marrying Malika provides the cover that he needs while he meets secretly with his real lover in real life a man named Philip Clark and for Malika being married to a kind of a rich airline employee means that she can get cheap airline tickets and she can travel much more which is something she loves to do so it's it works for both of them yeah it only lasts a couple months um Peter and Malika get a divorce by the end of 1959

and Peter and Philip move to a cottage in the affluent Manchester suburb of Wilmslow but Malika stays in touch and according to Peter she regularly hits him up for money so sometime 1960 1961 Malika goes missing and when police eventually tracked down our last known movements they learned Malika had recently paid a visit to Peter's cottage and when they go to question him about her and her whereabouts he denies knowing anything about her disappearance and he explains that Malika is an avid traveler so she could actually be anywhere but the investigators are very suspicious so they search Peter's cottage and they dig up the surrounding yard around the cottage but they don't find anything there's no evidence to hold Peter on

he's free to go about his life and between 1961 and 1963 he moves all around England making a sizable living from his catering business he also owns several coffee shops and fish and chip shops and he rents out a guest home so he's he's basically took his money from his fancy airline job and now he's you know figured out ways to make more money so as Peter makes it comfortable living for himself in this new chapter of his life Malika's case goes cold so he Peter eventually settles in Portsmouth along England's south coast in 1963 so 12 years later Peter meets a man named Paul Corrigan and they begin to run a cabaret club together called the Northcote Hotel and they make a bunch of money on it and Peter actually has enough money to buy more real estate he even buys

an apartment in Malta so he's doing very well for himself but these two men are not just business partners they have actually a very dark connection because when they're not managing this nightclub they roam the streets of Portsmouth looking for young boys to kidnap and sexually assault what yes when they're finally caught and arrested in 1977 they're both sentenced to seven years in prison and they only serve four they're so they're both released in January of 1981 okay so Paul Corrigan's freedom doesn't last long because just one year after his release from jail he kidnaps rapes tortures and kills a 13 year old boy named John Haddon so Paul Corrigan's arrested soon after and he returns to prison with a life sentence so that story in in and of itself and on its own yeah crazy and

horrifying that basically these two will turn out to be like violent pedophiles find each other and then yeah it's it's now that's horrible terrible Paul Corrigan ends up going to jail for the rest of his life though and but when he basically is arrested he immediately is like hey just so you know when I was in jail Peter Reinbart told me that he killed his wife Malika D. Fernandez so the police track Peter down he now lives in Knightsbridge in London and they question him again but again he denies having anything to do with Malika's disappearance and there is no evidence except for a child murderer's word to go on so there's nothing that the authorities can do and Peter remains free but all of that changes two years later on May 13th 1983 with this discovery

of the skull in the Lindow Moss bog so basically they find this head and the investigators remember this guy know that he was uh you know basically a contemporary of Paul Corrigan this monster person and they're like this this guy connect being around this woman who has just disappeared off the face of the earth yeah cannot be good like this is not you know this is not a good guy so investigators once again track down Peter Reinbart uh about a month after the skull is found so this time they finally have evidence they have a body when they inform Peter that a woman's body has been found that matches the description of Malika he finally confesses to murdering his ex-wife he tells police quote it's been so long I thought I would never be found out

so in a statement to police Peter says that Malika came over to his cottage sometime around 1961 60 or 61 no one's sure about that date but that she was demanding money and she was threatening that if he doesn't pay her that she's going to out him to the world as a gay man so he would lose his job and he would get probably get arrested or at least be you know in the police's eye yeah so this is all according to Peter's is one sided story but basically he says a fight breaks out and he says quote something just boiled over inside me he says he strangled Malika to death he dismembered her and then he tried to burn her remains but when that didn't work he placed her body parts in sacks and buried them out in the bog near the edge of his property so basically

now the investigators take this confession they go back to linda moss and they try to find the rest of Malika's remains but after a thorough search they don't find anything and this gnaw is at the lead detective his name is detective inspector dorge abbott he's got enough evidence to put peter away but he still sends this the skull to the lab at oxford university in october 1983 to take a closer look at it and when the lab results come back several weeks later investigators are stunned by what they learn radiocarbon dating shows that the skull could not have belonged to malika defranandez because it's more than 17 centuries old and it dates back to the year 250 ad holy shit okay so now i'm going to get to talk to you about one of truly a thing in the world

that i think is the most fascinating which are bog bodies bodies in the bog bodies in the bog right fascinating so if you have ever read national geographic magazine while you waited for your parents to be done at a dinner party you know about bog bodies like i do mm-hmm so but i'm going to i'll give you a little a little walk through now jay did this research he did an amazing job and i was like please make the bog party part as long as you want to because i find it fascinating i'm obsessed i'm so i'm so excited about this okay good so for the last few hundred years the incredibly well preserved bodies of men and women from thousands of years ago have been discovered in denmark in the netherlands in ireland in the uk in northern germany and even

in north america and the one thing that they all have in common is that they were found in bogs but not just any kind of bog will preserve a human body there are four primary factors that make up the perfect conditions first of all the bog must have a specific type of moss called sphagnum moss okay definitely pronouncing that wrong second the bog has to be moist year round it can't dry out at any time and third the bog soil must remain at a maximum temperature of 39 degrees when the body is buried and the average annual temperature of the region has to stay below 50 degrees so basically now here's a this is kind of detailed part but it's pretty fascinating so this sphagnum moss is very specific kind of moss it sits on top of a watery surface of the bog

and it makes the water way more acidic than normal and that acidity destroys the minerals that would otherwise contaminate the water and live moss dies it sinks to the bottom of the water it undergoes its own decaying process that dead moss breaks down it releases sugars and humic acids and then the remaining live moss on top acts as a sort of seal so it protects the body beneath from any sort of outside interference wow so like a perfect this like perfect stew for preserving a body yes and and those conditions create a preservation matter that's more efficient than the mummification process used in ancient Egypt wow mostly because it's nature doing it it's accidental sure but instead of decaying normally bog bodies kept in these conditions

they end up tanning like leather and even human hair can remain intact although it turns this coppery red color so when they first found bog bodies they thought the people were redheaded and then they like science slowly revealed that it was not just these like redheaded people being sacrificed by their tribe or whatever sure it's just what the the bog is doing yeah so one of the most famous bog bodies and this is the this is the bog body that was featured in national geographic or at least the first one I ever saw yeah and it's the tall and man of Denmark he was discovered in 1950 but his body dated back to the fourth century bc in the pre-roman iron age the tall and man is so well preserved that he looks like a silvery gray old man who's

sleeping in the fetal position but he he has all the features of his face the skin on his face he even has like a three-day beard growth like it's so detailed for someone that from that long ago yeah it's unbelievable and he's it looks like he's been spray painted dark silver yeah it's it's it looks like the tin man kind of yes except for dark that the tin part would be darker okay and he literally looks like he's sleeping any kind of looks like he's smiling okay I've seen this for sure as a kid how terrified were you when you saw that no I loved it because yes like all the the skin is kept on but and and there's internal organs and stuff in them they have actually they've done autopsies of bog bodies and like dissect and seen the brains and

stuff and gone through and like that's you know on the tall and man uh his stomach and and intestinal tract were intact oh my god and they figured out what he ate that day like that's how how intact this human being was from so long ago it's just so fascinating was it a sandwich do you have a sandwich it was burnt porridge no yes oh my god yes it's so basically here's the another fascinating aspect and he has a leather garret around his neck oh yeah so it suggests the possibility he was murdered yeah or he was a human sacrifice right and this is a common feature in bog bodies many are found with evidence of blunt force trauma suffocation slashed throats and it's basically because archaeologists can't know what they were doing right before they were

put in the bog they they can't tell because some sacrifice like the there's some some bog bodies are what they call triple killed where they're like stabbed and and they say that's very common for ritual sacrifice and it makes sense if it were ritual sacrifice because if the temperatures were that low it must have meant they probably were like it uh losing crops or they you know what I mean they were sacrificing to whoever putting bodies in the bog because the thinking back then was they got so much from the bog right by being able to use the peat in all those different ways that they had to give back so they've found weapons in bogs they found ancient they found a book what like yes they've they've found stuff in there and plus bodies so it isn't necessarily just

people trying to hide a murder victim or whatever they think they were used kind of ritualistically because they were seen as these places between worlds and it was like as someone is obsessed with metal detecting this is my fucking dream can you imagine yes does there does a metal detector work on a bog probably not but I would wonder because it has to be it's like damp and mucky it's just like a big it's like a pond that somebody filled with dirt yeah but like straw yeah anyway we're moss like we're we're scientists because that's not the confusing you're a bog doctor that's why thank you for asking that question so it made it look like I just know this stuff off the top of my head and not that it's just the next sentence on the page of like he'd eaten porridge

12 to 24 hours before he died I couldn't believe it gosh she's so educated okay so so this of course then it goes wide right that it's like oh this this skull that was found is from thousands of years ago which is very important and you know archaeologically significant and so of course peter rine bart recants his detailed confession about how he killed his his brief wife um I just see him um like tugging on his collar going uh oh yes I didn't even have to it's kind of the perfect like for this to happen to anybody yeah this guy seems to be the kind of person that's like that's really awesome that this yes it's a it's a terrible misunderstanding yes and usually it's a it's a it's a tragedy but it in this case this guy

it's perfect you belong in motherfucking prison the okay so now he's armed with this new spin on his previous confession story so he heads to trial in December 11th 1983 and on the second day of the trial peter takes the stand and tells the court that he saw malika in June of 1960 or 61 the beginning of his story remains the same malika stopped by the cottage that he shared with his male partner in whimslow and asked peter for money he said no then the new account is when he refused to pay she not only threatened to expose his homosexuality but she also quote lunged at his face with her long fingernails and quote so he claims he acted in self-defense grabbing her by the shoulders and shaking her and the next thing he knew she was dead jesus basically when he's

questioned about what he did with the body at this point he says quote I was terrified and I could not think clearly uh the only thing that came to mind was to hide her so he takes an axe chops her up buries her remains in a drainage ditch along the edge of lindo moss just 300 yards from his cottage so the trial lasts three days and on December 14th 1983 after a three-hour deliberation the jury finds 57-year-old peter rindbart guilty of murder of malika maria defranandez 23 years after her death wow and he's sentenced to life in prison so he goes to prison finally a cold case is closed basically a year later the same peat digger andy mold yet again makes another disturbing discovery in lindo moss he pulls what he thinks is a piece of wood off of a conveyor belt but then

after they clean it off he realizes and the the worker see it has toenails so the crew realizes they've just found a human leg and once again they call the police who come they shut the work site down and they're hoping that they're finding malika's remains yeah but meanwhile cheshire county archaeologist rick turner catches wind about this discovery so he goes down to lindo moss and in addition to that leg they end up finding a flap of skin which then leads them to the discovery of the rest of this body and when the remains are sent out for radiocarbon testing again it's another ancient bog body what they determined that these body parts belong to a man in his early 20s he was about five six he weighed anywhere from 132 to 143 pounds he had neatly manicured

fingernails and his facial hair had been cut with shears so they knew that he was probably a wealthy person yeah and they they basically dubbed him the lindo man or lindo two so the woman's skull was lindo one this is lindo two and this would not be the last body found at lindo moss in 1987 a third headless body lindo three is discovered it's also found to be from the iron age and there are theories that the skull from lindo one that was originally found belongs to the lindo three body either that there's a whole another fucking like head down there somewhere i mean crazy dig it all up they want to see everything down there drain the bog drain the drain the bogs so further inspection of lindo man shows that he was murdered that there's blows to the head they

think it was by axe a blunt object broke his neck and one of his ribs and the skin on this body is so well preserved that you can even see markings on his neck from a possible hanging or strangulation and on top of that his throat was sliced ear to ear so this is one of the situations where they believe that's the sign of a human sacrifice or it could have been an execution because if you feel like back then and the you know they'd overkill they torture you so it could have been like an execution i mean sure it could really be anything yeah that's but they owe they also overkill for human sacrifice right so it you know yeah um yeah because because they would you know they would if you were uh there were a lot of archaeologists that believe that

these were criminals right because they would always hang criminals and then but that then there's other people who say but the bog was like this sacred place right so it was actually an honor to be put it like the the lindo man he was clearly rich oh i see like his clothes um contained fibers that weren't from the area so he had probably had money and this this was probably there's theories that being placed there meant that it was an honor right basically right iron age shit it's hard to relate to now so today lindo man's remains are held at the beauty british museum in london and after being removed from the bog and studied lindo man was submerged in a chemical called polyethylene glycol which prevented him from from drying out you know what the lindo man looks like if the

picture that i saw was him it looks a lot like the the cover of that one radiohead album oh that's kind of like silvery yeah it looks a little bit like that where he's he's not silvery the lindo man is uh is kind of a yellow he it has that kind of tanned yeah um tanned look so even though they made all those discoveries of these additional bodies to this day malika d fernandez's remains have never been found and that is the story of the murder of malika d fernandez and the discovery of the bog body the lindo man karen it's one of those stories where i'm like damn i wish i had picked that one before you had because i like it so much well i'm like how come i didn't know about this one when we were doing shows in the uk totally it's a perfect because i mean

that's a story within a story within a story it is it is crazy how it's so weird that we both did uk stories or i know england stories great job that was that was a adventure like a fucked up adventure so fucked up yeah so fucked up um is it time to do some fucking hooray let's do some fucking hooray let's do it okay this first one's from draa girl on instagram are we still doing fucking hooray's we don't know we don't know we don't know either biggest fucking hooray ever all of my student loans have been forgiven i can finally start the home buying process and i have waited years to find a forever house for me and my kids so blessed fucking hooray wow thank god yeah forgive those loans okay this is from kaila o'hair on twitter she's at jube cube

she says my fucking hooray is when i was younger my mom would tell me that i was the first grandchild born after the death of my grandfather and i helped pull my nan alice out of her funk and now 36 years later on october 4th my nan is turning 100 oh nan alice happy birthday oh my god 100 100 years old what a badass you are that's so rad okay this one is from the fan cult my fucking hooray this week is that my two best friends on this earth married each other in the privacy of their front yard the ceremony was planned within one week and had to be kept a secret as their parents don't approve of gay marriage while sad and difficult for both of them i've never seen two people happier together and more healthy before c and alice i love you i support you you will always be my sisters and i

will always relish in being part of your chosen family together fucking hooray for honest love christina in Atlanta oh i love that i know chosen family that's just i love that i love that saying so much yeah i mean there's a lot of people that have to live that way and and really make the best of it in that way where it's like you know i've been i have a gigantic family an extended family i've been to tons of weddings and the if you're at a wedding where everyone is so stoked for the two people getting married and love is real i mean that's that's the point of having families yeah so whether you're a quote-unquote real or you know chosen family whatever it's like they're the ones doing it right totally it's so beautiful congratulations you guys

yeah congratulations what this after three years of people after three years of people ask me what i wanted for christmas my birthday mother's day etc and me telling them a fan cult membership i finally said fuck it and i bought my own i'm probably way more excited than i should be but oh well it makes me happy that's all that matters honestly after my only sister passed away unexpectedly in 2018 my new motto is that life is too short to not do what makes me happy so there stay sexy and buy your own happiness hyde in wyoming you're beautiful thank you thank you for your support we appreciate you and we're starting to do more videos and do more stuff for the fan cult because we've you know when we

took our break we took our break from everything so we're just starting to get that stuff fired up again and we're very excited to be doing it so hyde welcome you know we're glad you're with us we're glad you're all with us what a bunch of badasses our listeners are and we're so fucking honored every time every single time i meet one i met a few when i was in santa barba over the weekend and every single fucking time they're rad women like every time okay this one uh says hey karen georgia and everyone with paws and mustaches my fucking array this week is that i'm finally after four years of trying getting treatment for my borderline personality disorder and also out of the relationship that was making it worse y'all have helped i know y'all have helped

me countless times when i didn't feel like i had anyone to turn to i would just turn on your podcast and have something other to focus on than my raging mental health disorders thank you for helping me and many others xyla and then it says an 18 year old who has seen beetle juice xyla congratulations i'm so it makes me so happy to hear that you're taking care of business that's amazing yeah that's the first fucking step man is just to like try get in there yeah do the work god you might as well that's right yeah very brave yes okay let's see this one's from the fan cult forum it's from kim's of fpc and it says so this year i started to become a court appointed special advocate which basically is like big brothers big sisters but for kids in foster care and my role is to get

to know my kid so i can tell the court what she wants and needs after months of training and then waiting to find out who my kid would be i finally got assigned a teenage girl to be my kasa kid when i went to meet her and was i was warned she was shy and slow to open up uh while always making small talk i asked her what her favorite tv show was and her response accident suicide murder immediately i asked if she had seen the paul holes episodes and of course she had and we immediately began fangirling my fucking hurray is that our mutual love of paul holes and curiosity about true crime seemed to get her out of her shell and she's opening up to me more thank you karen and georgia for introducing me to paul holes and giving me something to break the ice with a kid

who is normally hesitant to trust adults oh my god i love it i got me did it get you i got me well it's such it's such important work yeah so thank you kim's of fpc for doing that work and for making the effort uh to connect with that kid that's one of those jobs that i think are so important for people to know about because you think of fostering you're like well i don't have room or time in my life to foster but there's little things you can do in within the foster care system to help kids that aren't these huge undertakings it's that the ad what is it called again court appointed special advocate right so that you can do that that isn't as big of a commitment but it's still so necessary and important so i i fucking love that and i love that she was able to connect over true crime that's

great and over our our love also of paul holes which just by the way paul holes is coming out with a book his first like biographical book um called unmasked yeah my life solving america's cold cases so awesome congrats paul it's rad yeah mr paul holes um well thanks for listening you guys thanks for sending us and send us your fucking arrays anyway you can and um yeah thanks for being a part of this you know this conversation this this sometimes depressing sometimes horrifying uh uh but oftentimes fun conversation sometimes uplifting too who'da thunk it in a true crime murder podcast yeah we try we know we do our best we do our best okay stay sexy and don't get murdered goodbye elvis do you want a cookie this has been an exactly right production our

producer is hannah kyle chryton associate producer alahandra keck engineer and mixer steven ray morris researchers j lias and haley gray send us your hometowns and your fucking arrays at my favorite murder at gmail.com and follow the show on instagram and facebook at my favorite murder and twitter at my fave murder and for more information about this podcast our live shows merch or to join the fan cult go to my favorite murder dot com rate review and subscribe