My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 30 - The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show

Episode Date: August 18, 2016

This week, Karen and Georgia discuss serial killer Cary Stayner and the Yosemite murders as well as con man/murderer Clark Rockefeller (aka Christian Gerhartsreiter aka Chris Crowe aka Chris Chichester.)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Are you ready? Are you? I'm ready. Let's have, let's be really low energy this time. Let's be as quiet as we can. Yes. And I screwed it up already. Yes. You want to be quiet? Yes. Yes. That's all I ever wanted. Oh, God. Hi. Welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar. That's Karen Kilgariff. The quietest, we're the quietest girls. We're so quiet. On podcast. Thanks for, thanks for being here. It's like spending your, spending an hour

with us. Think, think, thinking about things with us. Guys, there's so much going on in our world. Not the least of which is how Georgia doesn't like stranger things, but there's someone at the door. They're here to hang you up from the highest limb of a tree. I didn't, I don't not like it. I have issues with it. Okay, let's hear. Well, it reminds me of, remember the old Stephen King movies that would be made of Stephen King books that would be on, that were made for TV, like dinner, and how ridiculous they were. And if you guys say, what about true or pet cemetery, go back and watch it again. It's the corniest movie. But it would, that was a feature film. Right. And there was some scary shit in there. Yes, I love that movie. But if you go back,

you're like, Oh, this is so corny. It doesn't hold up. No. And it reminds me kind of of that, of Stephen King, like made for TV movies, and maybe it's so kind of supposed to. But I also just, it reminded me of like someone who doesn't read sci-fi made a show about sci-fi. Yes. And like, I feel like if it's the kind of movie where if someone who had read the book were watching it, which I know there's not a book, but if you were, you'd be like, Why the fuck did they leave this thing out? This was the most important part. Like, I feel like I would have been screaming that if I had read the book. Well, you know, I've found, I think because I like seeing, I'm at that stage where that kind of

nostalgia works on me because it's from when I was 10. Yeah. I love the look and feel. But that other stuff took me out of it. Well, and it's really hard to connect. This is, this is kind of like the Stephen King problem and like lost a lot of those things. When you get your big good idea that's going to freak people out and, and hook people in and then you try to connect that with kind of believable science or something grounded. It's, it's very difficult to do. So it's like, um, the upside down, right? Is what it was called. Like, but there was no thing that you just kind of entered it through this weird, I mean, yeah. And you could go get your kid, like it just, yeah, there was a lot of, wait, what in it for me? Like, and if you can

walk into it, then why does she have to go into the thing to get it? Right. And like, well, what is it? What is it made out of? Why did this happen? Why did this person exist? Yeah. Why did they, how did she get out of the, yeah. Yeah. It's, this is another episode of Georgia can't suspend her disbelief. Uh, you know, and it's a valid angle. I do. However, like the night of I've gone through three episodes in. Okay. Well, when you get to the episode that aired last night, oh my God. First of all, I keep falling asleep in front of the TV after watching night of and then dreaming about a Riz Ahmed all night, which makes me crazy. They were showing photos of him as a kid, like as part of this show. And, but there were real photos of him as a kid. And I was

like, I want that DNA inside of me. Like I want that baby. That's kind of gross. That's like, that's the biggest kind of crush you can have when you want their DNA because once your DNA inside me, that's like a serial killer Valentine. That's disgusting. That's a serial killer Valentine. Um, no, that's how I feel about him. I, I steal that idea from you. And I don't want to sleep with him. I have a husband that I love who doesn't want kids. So I'll just have one from him with big eyes and like, beautiful after he and I marry and have many of our own. And then you, can we get into a thing here? I guess we could make kind of a fun for the podcast. Yeah. Um, there's a thing that happens that I wish you were up to my episode because it actually

kind of kind of loops into this podcast. And it's just a fascinating angle. Say it. I don't care. Is it going to spoil for everyone, including me? No. Okay. I don't care. Then say it. But if you, if you haven't seen past like George's on episode three, and if you don't want anything, just don't listen to this part. And it's the, remember when they stop at the gas station and there's that guy that's got the hearse that he walks by and the guy gives him a way. He comes back. They all come back. He comes back big time. Okay. Him and then the guy who was yelling racial slurs at them. He was walking with someone else down the sidewalk. And when he's being interviewed, he says he was alone. Of course. That's a big thing. Yeah. I also think that the stepdad is

going to come back. Yes. Right. You got to catch up because there's some good stuff happening. It got, you know, they had to do a lot of exposition and setting that thing up of him being in jail, which bums me out. That was long. It's such a bummer jail. It's a very long, long, long show. I love that episodic. Okay. Two things. It's like a play. It is like a play. I would watch a whole show of just John Deturo and about his eczema. Didn't know there were eczema support groups. That's fascinating. Those poor, those poor people. They can't date. I didn't know eczema was that awful. Yeah. That's amazing. And then last night, yesterday when I watched it, Janet Colgate is now a character from Dirty Ron's calendars.

What? You know, the female lawyer. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I got so happy when I named her name, Janet Colgate. When she came on screen, I said it in like, in a accent that was said in, and I think Vince was like, who did I, what did I marry? Wait, what's that actress's name? You think I can remember her character from a cheesy movie from the 80s, but I can't remember her real name. Her name is... You get this. You always get this. I know, but it's hot. Elizabeth. Nope. It's Stacey Nancy. Stacey Nancy. It's my favorite actress, Stacey Nancy, from such plays as... Nancy Stacey? Stacey. Nancy Stacey. That's the best stage name of all time. Taking it. Stealing it. My favorite murder with Karen Gilgaro. And Nancy Stacey.

Oh my God. That's good. So sweaty. Are you looking it up, Steven? What is it, Steven? Is the letter P in her first or last name? Penelope. Not at all. It's Glenn Headley. Glenn Headley. You said that as if it was something to your tongue. It was in, it was nowhere near my name. Glenn Headley? Glenn Headley. She's such a great actress. She is, but oh, her name. Stephen Ray Morris. Thank you for that. Yeah. Anytime. That's, um, that's like one of those white waspy names I would have never gotten. In my world, girls can't be named Glenn. I've definitely never heard that before. Yeah. That's a family name, I'm sure. I'm sure it is. That's on a crest somewhere.

But, um, so two thumbs up for the night of... Yeah. Watch it. We're not talking about this. We're not talking about Stranger Things anymore. Yeah. It's gone off. Did you like the ending that they left it open, obviously, for a second season? I'm going to admit, I fell asleep at some point in the later episodes, and I can't remember how it... Okay. They ended it in a way that was, there's just like no satisfying ending. Can I tell you? Because do you think they're going to be a season two? Well, Nancy and Steve are still together. What? Yeah. But she didn't love him. Does she? She doesn't. Does she love fake Ben Schwartz? That's all I could see when I saw him. Did you see that? That's exactly what he looks like.

He looks so much... He's like wasp Ben Schwartz. Yeah. He looks like if Ben Schwartz got put through a rock and roll machine. I remember looking at Ben Schwartz, I promise. I... Nothing wrong with him, but I just couldn't see that character. But sorry, she goes back to him? I feel like I just... I should have spoiled alerted that. Yeah. That's a big spoiler alert. Excuse me. I feel like I just burped really loudly and like without warning anyone or saying excuse me before or after. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Can I say... Can I read you my favorite tweet that we've gotten on the My Favorite Murder Twitter account? Always? This is Tweet Corner with Karen. Tweet Corner, welcome. Mere, mere, mere,

mere. Why did you just... That's the theme song. Okay. Mimi, the unsung cat of the Hard Star household. She sings the theme song to Tweet Corner. Mere, mere, mere, mere. Mimi's got to have her spot in the... Yeah. This is it. She's come to shine. Ready, Mimi? Mere, mere, mere, mere. She's totally asleep. Someone on Twitter named Trash Panda IRL. I love her already. That's not a real person. Read what her name is. Oh, tween sensation. Tween sensation is her handle. Okay. Trash Panda IRL is her... I don't know. Name, I don't know. Trash Panda. And on her Twitter account, sorry, but I just noticed this, her header picture is a picture of Barb and it says, in memory of Barb, see you on the other side. That's incredible. It's an illustration of Barb

from Stranger Things. Hell yeah, Trash Panda. The best. Way to bring it all around. So she tweeted at us and said, my dad keeps calling your show the Fuckward Murder Mystery Show because he can't remember the name and I cannot stop laughing at that. Say it again. My dad keeps calling your show the Fuckward Mystery Murder Mystery Show because he can't remember the name. That is... So first of all... I can't. If my dad heard a podcast where girls were saying the F word, he would pull the stereo out of the car and throw it on the highway. I swear, if my dad ever hears this, he's going to call me with such a stern tone. And so I love the fact that Trash Panda IRL's dad is even listening to it at all. I love him. I love him. He sounds like my dad. And I think we might need to change

the name of this podcast to the Fuckward Murder Mystery Show. I try not to do this, but someone who makes the memes needs to get our logo and change it into... Say it when we're talking because it makes me so happy. The Fuckward Murder Mystery Show. It's just beautiful. Can I read you something that's probably going to make you want to cry? Yes. You ready for this? Okay. Wait. Are you... Shit. Yeah. Oh no. Should I start crying first? Start crying now. I'll just think about... Oh no. What happened? Oh wait, no. Should I cry because you can't find it? Okay. Here we go. Ready. All right. Wait. Oh, son of a bitch. Okay. I found it. Okay. I'm emotionally ready for you to read whatever this is. Liz C on the Facebook page says,

I'm 19 years old and fighting cancer at the moment. Oh no. Ready to cry? Yep. My dad and I listened to the podcast on the way to the hospital and back. Oh fuck. It's a great way to keep my mind off things, except now I'm scared to get murders. LMAO. I can't wait for the new shirts to come out. I'm definitely going to be wearing it to the hospital. Love all you murderinos. And then there's 200 comments including mine that says your next shirt is on the second house. Oh. What's her name, Liz? Liz. Yeah, Liz. Hey Liz, you fight the good fight. You get in there. You do your fucking chemo or however you're taking care of this business and get it taken care of and get it out of you. And many years of this stupid bullshit to come. Wait, the podcast or cancer?

Uh, no, no, none of that, only the podcast and then general fun things in life. Yeah, murder, cancer. You're going to be the smartest person you know because you've dealt with this thing. And you're going to have a great perspective on life. I actually know many cancer survivors and the cool part about it is once you get through that, all that bullshit of like, that girl took my brush and now I'm going to try to ruin it and you don't do that shit anymore because you're like, you're like, oh, I understand what loss is and I understand the gift of life that we have right now. And my family who was there for me when I like that we, that we were able to get through this together. The fact that her dad listens to that on the word. You guys. Sorry,

we curse. Stay strong. We love you. We're thinking of you. Murder, cancer. And also anyone else who might be going through some shit and with us in their ears, I bet it happens more often than not. I guess I have to say too, we got another email this week and I kind of get them a lot because I talk about depression and anxiety constantly that a good place to get therapy, therapist referrals is psychology today. They have a website that you just put in your zip code. There's photos and descriptions and it's a really great place to get referrals for therapists. That's where I found mine and that's where Georgia found hers. We're big on therapy, you guys. Take care of yourselves. Yes, for sure. Hey. Hi. Homekeeping. It's hard for us to be emotional. So our transition

out is not going to be as clean as you might find on the more professional podcast. I'm stuttering because I was vulnerable and it makes me feel awful. It also, it feels weird that this, we started this thing talking to each other in your apartment and now we're actually connecting to real human beings. I know. I just, it came real all of a sudden and now I'm super self-conscious. It's very, it's super weird. Yeah. It's a weird feeling. I know. I got a really sweet email from a girl in LA being like, I don't know. It was to both of us. I'm sorry. I just fucking took it over and emailed her back immediately. God damn you. I'm sorry. But she was like, I don't know what to do. I don't know where to find a therapist. What do I blah? And it was just like so, I felt so

good being able to offer that. I mean, Jesus. We're all humans. And also just, it's nice to help people. It is. And or feel like you're entertaining them or just doing anything worthwhile. Yeah. Or knowing the shit that you've gone through is that then you're able to help other people because of it. It's of use. It wasn't for no reason. No. That's right. Right. Yeah. Guys. Oh, homekeeping. Let's have 10 minutes of silence. Homekeeping. Homekeeping. On August 28th, here's the thing. Now we're getting into live shows. That's, that's what we're doing now. Yeah. Not our own yet, but we're doing other peoples. And then we're going to slowly build into to, I don't know, world tour. I'd like to go on a world tour. Oh, for sure. Cone bras. Cone bras.

And like, I'd like a bus that we sleep in, that we drive around on the highways and at night. I don't want to do that. Can there be a poll in it? I don't want to die in a bus. What do you, a pole? Like a stripper pole and like when they're having parties and like, that's what I think of Madonna and like cute gay men on the stripper pole. Okay. Wait, in the bus? Yeah. But I don't want to go on the bus. Oh, okay. Where do you want the pole on the bus? Yes to the bus or no to the bus? Yes to the bus with the pole. I'll meet you there. And then the bus will be parked. So I'll have the fun and I'll tell you what happened on the bus. If we go on the bus, I'm going to sit in the front seats with a seatbelt on. Hey, awake the whole time. I have the solution. You drive the

bus. Boom. I'm fucking in. So I will do that. I'm such a control. C drivers. Okay. Let's do this thing. Cool. We are doing. So Dan Harmon has a famous podcast here on Feral Audio called Harmont Town and he does live versions of this podcast and we're doing the next one. The podcast is live. Always? Yeah. Oh, I'm a huge fan. Always have been. I wasn't sure if you were kidding. Yeah, of course I am. It's always live. It's Sunday nights. It's live at Meltown. That's where they record it. Yeah, we're definitely editing this part out. Market on Sunday. Do you really want to? No. Okay, it's funny. I don't think he would care. I don't think he would care. On Sunday, August 28 at eight o'clock, at eight o'clock, right? I mean, yes. Now this part could be wrong.

We're doing Harmont Town, the live, the always live podcast at Meltdown Comics. Come down there if you want to watch and be a part of things. I'm assuming it's at eight because that's where when the most of the main shows start. It's got to be, I bet eight to ten. Bet you anything. Eight to ten. I guess I'm hedging it because it could be a seven to nine or. But what percentage of these people are going to come because it's in LA? Right. Do you think a percentage will? Point seven. Who's listening? Who are listening now? Yes. Oh, hard to say. Hard to tell. Well, I bet the, well, there might be an eccentric millionaire who's like warm up the jet. We're

going to LA for this one. Yeah. Get the cash, the cash full of money. Yeah. Get the envelope full of cash. Just an envelope or do you want to bring a briefcase? I am so hot right now. I know it's really hot. It's so hot in here that my brain is malfunctioning. It is eight o'clock. It's eight o'clock. Thank you. And it's live, right? Just kidding. Yeah, we're doing that. We're really excited. So it's going to be fun. We are quite honored. I mean, Dan Harmon's a bit of a legend. I mean, he's incredible. Watching him on stage. If you haven't seen him fucking perform, he's just like, he's another, he's just like transformed into this like. The beast. This beast. Anyways. It honestly sounds like they're watching stranger things really loud next door.

I think I was thinking that earlier because I thought I heard the awesome theme song. Yeah. Let's watch it. Let's listen through the walls to the whole episode. Yeah. So you can. Great. I think that's it for the home keeping. Oh, teespring.com slash my favorite murder for your new shirt. We have our main logo on teespring.com right now till the 23rd of August. And then we'll have other shirts. But if you want one, go get it. And then more designs will are to come. Yeah, we're working on some shit, you guys. Some cool shit. Some fun stuff. We're working on a thing that made me at Vince's birthday the other night at a bar when Georgia

and our friend Kat showed it to me made me scream. Yeah. I was happy that you got so excited about it. It makes me very happy. Cool. I'm excited. Hey, I'm Aresha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a diva will tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all

people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. I think you're first this week. Am I first? Yeah. All right. Settle in, Karen. Okay. Get ready to hear about something we've talked about. We've touched on before. Okay. But we never delved into. Okay. The Yosemite murders. Carrie Stainer. Yes. As we know, and we've talked about Carrie Stainer. Here's to just like the beginning of the fucked up in this. Carrie Stainer was the big brother of a Stephen Stainer who feel remember in 1972 was kidnapped and held captive by a child Lester named Kenneth Parnell. The carry was the older brother and he was 11 years old when it happened. Yeah. When it happened

and Steve and the brother was held captive more than seven years before escaping. That itself is a fucked up story that you guys should look up. So awful. And this was one of our earliest episodes. We were trying to remember the name of that the made for TV movie, which is called I Know My Name is Stephen. Yes. And we talked about it for way too long. And we're still getting people that are tweeting at us and sending us emails saying it was called I Know My Name is Stephen. It's like that happened six months ago. Well, when we talked about that, that was the first time I found out that these two were brothers because I knew about Carrie's murders and I knew about Stephen's kidnapping, but I didn't know they were connected. And that just makes it it just,

it makes it boggles the mind, you know, in a way that's like more than just when you think of a serial killer, you're like, how does your brain do that? And then we have this added piece of fucking childhood trauma in there. Also, it makes me think this poor family is left standing. It's just like how much can some people take? It's terrible. Yeah, it's so much. Well, so the year after Stephen came home, he escaped his his kidnapper and freed the other kids and freed a little kid who had just gotten kidnapped by Kenneth Parnell, who by the way is out prison. He went for seven years, I believe, which is shorter than the amount of time he kept Stephen. No. Wait, is he still alive? Yeah. As far as I mean, I read an article that said he was,

if it could have been old, but I think so. Because I just read Kenneth Parnell's Wikipedia page for some weird reason. Some article brought me and then I went, wait, I feel like I know about this guy. And then realized it was because of Stephen Stainer. I believe he lives in California, like Northern California. That's a bummer. Yep. Yeah, seven years. Great. Any who want to get more bummed out? Ready? Here we go. Okay. The following the year after Stephen came back, I'm going to call him Kerry. Kerry's uncle was murdered and Kerry was living with the uncle at the time. But no one considered him a suspect. And Kerry would later claim that his uncle molested him. Oh, no. Cut to 1997. Kerry was hired as a handyman at the Cedar Lodge Motel in El Porto,

just outside of the highway with 140 arc rock entrance to Yosemite National Park. So just outside Yosemite Cedar Lodge. The weekend before February 1999, he was having these murderous fantasies that had become so intense that he knew he was going to murder someone. He prepared a murder rape kit containing a rope, a roll of duct tape and a serrated kitchen knife and later a gun and a camera. And as far as we know, other besides his uncle, which may or may not have happened, this is his first, these are his first murders. Okay. So in Valentine's Day 1999, Carol's son, who was 42, her daughter, Julie, who was 15, and Sylvina Paloso, who was 16, were his first victims. Carol was initially leery of Kerry when he knocked on their cabin door saying he had to fix a fan

in the bathroom. She talked him through the window and didn't want to let him in and only did so after he said he'd go get the manager to like confirm it. And she was like, no, no, no, no, no, that's okay. You know, the way people do. When they give you the double confirmation, I'm like, oh, don't worry, I'll go do the thing you want me to do. Right. Well, if you say that, then, well, if you say you're going to do the thing I want you to do, then you must be legit. Right. And okay. Yeah. All right. I'll do it. So, but once inside, he pulls out a 22 caliber pistol. He tells them he's desperate, quote, and orders them to lie face down on the bed. He bounds their hands with duct tape, gags them, and then he took the two girls into the bathroom.

He strangles Carol with a three foot piece of rope later saying in his taped confession, I didn't realize how hard it is to strangle a person. It's not easy. But I had a very little feeling it was like performing a task. Yeah. Keep that in mind. If it's really hard to strangle somebody. It's very hard. Maybe don't do it. Yeah. It's harder than one thinks. So after putting her in the trunk of her rented Pontiac, he goes back to the girls, cuts their clothes off, and then he strangles Sylveana in the bathroom. And then he sexually assaults Julie in the family motel, in the motel room, and then wraps her up and ties,

he ties her to the bed. He says he felt like he was in control for the first time in his life. And he cleaned up the crime scene so well that it appeared that the women had checked out and left when the, when the people came to check. When the staff came later to check to see if they were there. And they had detected no foul play. Let's see. He even wiped his hair off the bed sheets. And then when the FBI agent asked on tape why he did that, he replied, I watched the Discovery Channel. Oh, no. That's all of us. Yep. Oh, yeah. Everyone's getting real smart about forensics together, good and bad. Yeah, for sure. So at 4am, he takes Julie out of the motel and drives her away in the rental car with her mother and friend in the trunk. So she's

still alive. Yes. Okay. And I don't know, I don't think she knows that those two are dead and in the trunk because he kind of, there was two motel rooms and he was going between and I don't think she ever saw the bodies. She just thought she was separated. Yeah. So she says, he says, I didn't know where I was going or what I was doing. I just kept driving and driving. And he said about Julie. She was a very likable girl. He said crying on tape. She was very calm. So Don is approaching. He turns off at Lake Don Pedro and carries Julie up a dirt path to a small clearing overlooking the water. I told her I wished I could keep her. He said then he sexually assaulted her again. Finally brushed her hair and fanned it out on the ground beneath her head. I told her I

loved her, he said. And then he slit her throat. Oh, no. I didn't want her to suffer the way the other two did. Oh, too late asshole. I know. Like I think because he choked them manually, he was thinking that it was taking longer. So he slit her throat thinking he was her terribly. Yeah, like thinking he was being compassionate. So he hides her body and he drives the car with the bodies in the trunk as far as he could into the forest. Then he takes a cab back to Yosemite, pays with the fare with the $150 she stole from Carol's purse. Two days later, he returns to the car with a can of gasoline and scratches. We have Sarah on the hood with a pocket knife. And then he lights the car on fire. Then he drives two hours west and dumped Carol's billfold on a pedestrian street

corner to fool the police. This is near where you're from, kind of. Kind of. It's the Central Valley. We're more on the coast. Okay. So more than a month later, the remains of Carol's son and Pulosa were found in the burned out rental car abandoned along a logging road. And six days later, the FBI received an anonymous letter with a crudely drawn map and a message. We had fun with this one. And following the map, the searchers found Julie. The detectives began interviewing employees at the Cedar Lodge Motel where the first three victims had been staying just before their deaths. One of the employees was Carrie, but he was not considered a suspect at that point. He has no criminal history and remained calm during the police interview. Fucking psychopath, right?

FBI agents and local police rounded up a bunch of meth heads and sex offenders and told the tourists and residents that they were confident they had the killers in custody. That... Okay. So another woman disappears on July 22nd. This is Joey Ruth Armstrong, J-O-I-E, who is 26. She's a pretty redhead who worked for the Yosemite Institute teaching children about nature. Oh, sweet angel. She worked at the... Let's see. It was alone in the isolated cabin where she lived when Carrie came upon her. Man, we can't have anything. We can't even live alone. Don't... Well, but living in a cabin alone in the woods... Yeah, but guys could do it. What? Guys get to live alone in a cabin in the woods without getting murdered for the most part.

Yeah, they're guys. That's what I'm saying. It's not fair. No, I know. I'm more... I'm still in the motive. If you're going to live in a cabin in the woods, then pull your gun out anytime someone approaches your home. Yeah. Like, I don't know. Or... Or big dogs, big, angry, scary dogs. Krav Maga. I don't know. Yeah. No, I get it. Don't be all chill. Yeah. I wouldn't want to live. I like living in that big city where there's just people everywhere. Yeah. On top of you all the time. So according to the interview, Carrie confronted Armstrong at gunpoint on the front porch of her cabin. Oh, he had a gun? Yeah. Oh, and he told her it was a robbery and forced her into the cabin and covered her mouth and bound her hands behind her back with duct tape. Then he put her in his

sports utility vehicle. SUV. I could have just said that. That's an SUV. Thank you. Someone needed an extra word count in their newspaper piece, right? Did you also draw a picture? Yeah. Page five is just one big... Well, I copied a couple of these sentences and that was one of them. And now I'm like, that guy just needed a higher word count for sure. Yeah. He said, I lost control of myself and I lost control of her. Let's see. He said, when this started out, I had no intention of cutting her head off, which he later did. Spoiler alert. Man. He says he has no intention of cutting her head off. I had no intention of killing her even the first time I saw her. Yeah, right. Then I started thinking about it. It was in the house. There was nobody in the house

with her. She kept walking out by herself and she watered the plants and it was obvious she was taking off and getting ready to go. That's when I started talking to her. So the assistant U.S. attorney, then... Okay. In court papers, it was said, after he had driven a short distance, she dove head first out of the wind, through the window out of the moving truck and still bound with duct tape, ran through the woods toward the nearby community of Furista to get help. Hell yeah. Girl, good for you. Bite your fucking last bite. Yeah. You know? I don't know if that was the right saying. Well, Carrie ultimately subdued Armstrong. She fought so crazy and with such passion that Stanner wasn't able to do his normal cleanup job, like obsessive cleanup job. He disposed of her

beheaded body near in a nearby stream and the head turned up 27 feet away in a hurry. He fled and a close source... He fled. He fled. No, he fled, Karen. Don't fucking correct me. Letter count. Letter count. He fled. Sorry to correct you. No, you're right. He fled. A close source. It's close to the investigation. Oh my god. I think you were pointing that out. No, I did not catch that. Says it was a fight from start to finish. She tried to get away and she almost did get away and those several minutes of struggle left behind a lot of evidence. Her determined fight for life denied him the chance to cover up the crime scene and it led to his capture and undoubtedly saved other lives. Yes. Honey. She basically ended it.

Yep. By fighting that hard. She fucking fought so hard that he lost it. So in his hasty left behind footprints and basically his car was seen around the area. It was really distinctive. The tire tracks as well as were as well. And so the vehicle was traced to him and he was arrested. And during his interrogation, he confessed to all four murders. He pled not guilty by reason of insanity and a doctor testified that he had mild autism, obsessive compulsive disorder and paraffilia. At one point during the trial, the judge, Thomas C. Hastings, had to leave the courtroom so he could compose himself in private because the testimony was so fucked up. He returned several minutes later, red faced and misty eyed. A judge. The circumstances of this case are

horrendous and devastating, he said before announcing the sentence. Carrie was found sane and convicted of four counts of first degree murder by a jury in 2001. He was sentenced to death and is still in San Quentin. He claimed after his arrest. So everyone's like, did you get these murderous tendencies because of the stuff with your brother and all this horrible stuff that happened to you as a kid? But he said after his arrest that he had fantasized about murdering women since he was seven years old long before the abduction of his brother. So what are the chances like those two traumatic fucks up things are going to happen in one family? So awful. Okay. And then I went on Facebook and found a hometown murder from a reader. So I'm going to

read it. Okay. So Taylor C says, in June of 1999, I was 11 and my brother was eight. My family and I went on a road trip to Yosemite from LA and all caps stayed in the Cedar Lodge Motel. This is for everyone. This is right between the murder of the three women and the murder of the single woman like months before like months in between. Oh man. Around 930 at night, my brother and I were watching Batman and Robin and we get a knock at the door. My mom looks through the people, sees some dude and asks what he wants. He says, pizza delivery. We had already eaten. So we knew no one had ordered a pizza. My mom tells him as much and he insists that we did. My mom tells him that he must have been mistaken, but he keeps insisting. After a certain point, my mom walks away

and assumes he did as well. Several minutes of knocking later, my mom calls the hotel management. He must have heard her on the phone because when they showed up, he was gone. My mom filed a police report, but nothing really ever came of it. I think when they caught him, she was briefly interviewed, but because she didn't get a good look at him, she wasn't useful in the case. To think my brother and I could have died while watching Arnold laying down some truly excellent ice puns because they were watching, where'd it go? Batman and Robin. Fucked up shit. Was it, did she say it was just her mom? It was her brother and her mom? Her and her brother and her mom. So like he spotted like moms with kids. Yeah.

He must have targeted them. Man. But why would you do it again in the same, I mean, I guess you didn't get caught the first time. Yeah, you didn't get caught. And you're cocky. And he has still has the fantasy. Like he still has. It's the compulsion. And then there's sometimes that thing of like, maybe you wanted to get caught. Yes. Well, it surprised me when you said that he cried when he was talking about the first girl. Well, when that, when, during the trial, when a lot of the stuff is being, or when he was listening to his own testimony, he would, he would plug up his ears and cry. Like he couldn't listen to it, even though when he was giving that information during the interrogation, he was like,

like dead, you know, emotionally dead. Wow. So either that was just for the, just for the show, for the jury. Oh, that's true. Or, you know, maybe he was on anti psychotics or something at that point and understood. Or if he was like, yeah, if he was like, hadn't processed anything. Yeah. Confessing. Yeah. Wow. Or hadn't been meeting with therapist or something at that point and kind of, I mean, but to, but to have the urge to kill like that, I think does put you in like the, in the psychopathic area. I can't imagine. Like just, it's like, and since he was seven, that's yeah, he must have had some fucked up things happen to him way early on. And did they ever, do you know if they ever connected him to the uncle's murder?

There's like not a lot of recent articles. It's like they're looking into it stuff and trying to piece together like other murders in the area, see if he's got any link to them, but it doesn't really look like it. Wow. Plus if he confessed to all, all of those, like why wouldn't he confess to more of them, but who knows? Yeah. That's a good one. Oh, and then did you know that the brother Stephen Stainer died when he was 24 in a motorcycle accident? Man, that's a rough life. Yeah. That's just, it's nothing but awfulness. Yeah. The rest of that family. Didn't he die on the motorcycle accident like relatively soon after he came back? He died when he was 24. Oh, okay. So I think he came back in his teens, right? Yeah. Maybe 15.

Oh, okay. Yeah. So yeah, that's deep and dark. Well, I hope yours is happy and fun. Mine is so fun. It actually kind of is. It's not as dark. I do love that. I mean, I do love the Stainer story, though. It's just the heaviest of anything. Well, I remember when I was, what year was that? I just remember it, 1999. So I was like, I was 19 or 20, like living in Orange County, which isn't far from Yosemite, like two, three hours. And I remember hearing both of those and they, they got him pretty quickly after the second the girl was beheaded. But it was just so, and they have photos of her up and she's just this like hippie sweetheart. And, you know, I felt so bad for the girl who was with the mom and sister and her family on vacation with her friend. Yeah. I felt, you know,

I'm sure there's like part of that family that blame. There's like guilt and blame and so much, so much shit besides just having someone that you love die. That was the first thing that I thought of when I heard that story, when it originally happened was that's the worst scenario. It's like being on vacation. Something happens to your kid when they're on vacation with their friend and they're in their teens. And you're like kids, you're trying to like be cool and let them go and like live their life and give them some freedom and, you know, against better judgment, maybe letting them go camping. Yeah. Nope. All right. Are you ready to transition? Always. Because mine, I actually, this, I was watching this documentary this weekend

about this guy that I'm going to talk about and it's very entertaining. Even though he is also a murderer, he is more a con man, which I actually kind of adore. You're like a mobster who won't kill women and children. Yes. And you're like, you know what? You know, when you can like pick and choose the bad, like this is the kind that I like where for the most part, now he is a borderline personality, I think extreme narcissist. They have all kinds of, you know, the psychiatrist talked about what he was in court, but he basically what it was, he was a guy who grew up in Germany as a very awkward teen. In this documentary, they talk about how he, when all their friends would go to like the, to the lake every summer, he would always go, but he would be fully dressed up

and he would never, they never saw him in a bathing suit. Because this is Hitler. That man's name was Mr. Adolf Marie Hitler. No, this was, well, he was born Christian Karl Gerhard Schreiter. Lee. But he had many names in his long con career. He also went by the name Chris Chichester, Chris Crow, Chip Smith. And finally, Clark Rockefeller heir to the Rockefeller. You know this guy? What's the documentary called? It's called My Friend Rockefeller. Yeah, I never got through it. So tell me everything. It is here. It's worth getting to the part where Clark Rockefeller or Chris Chichester or Chip Smith or Chris Crow is my favorite because he, when he was Chris Crow, he claimed to be a relative of Cameron Crow.

He does all these lies that are just small enough. They're big enough to impress you, but small enough to be believable. Right. And it is masterful and he's a really legitimately IQ style intelligent person, but he also doesn't really have any morals. So most of the time, everything's fine because he's just trying to get money and like work for himself and get what he wants. But they're enough and doesn't he make like everyone happy around him too? Like everyone thinks he's so funny for a little while. Yeah. I think the limits two years that people are happy around this guy. Then he starts getting real irritating and that's when he gets kicked out of houses, fired from jobs, what have you. So this is basically how it goes. He grows up as an awkward

teen in Germany. He has a group of friends and in the documentary, the friends get interviewed. And what I loved is one of the friends goes, I love that he tricked all those rich Americans. And that part made me go, oh, yeah, that's true. He really did get away with huge, huge lies for a really long time. So here's basically how it went. He also claimed to be, these are all the things he claimed to be an actor, a producer, a director, an art collector, a physicist, a ship's captain, a negotiator of international debt agreements and an English aristocrat. He was. He did it all. So when he was 17, he met an American couple who had pulled off and asked him for directions on the side of the road. And he met them, got their names. And then

when he wanted to go to America, when he was 17, he used their names on the like entrance documents to say that they had invited him there and that he was going to go live with them. This was a one off meeting on like the side of the road. And those people are also in this documentary. That's pretty awesome. So he comes to the United States and he goes to Merritt in Connecticut. And he finds the family of a backpacker he met once on a train in Germany. I can't even talk to the person sitting next to me on an airplane. I have a hard time talking to people I've known for 20 years. Yeah. Much less asking people if you can go stay at their parents' house.

Oh my God. I asked Vince if I can like eat some of his ships because I feel bad about it. I can't imagine me like, can I stay at your place? We met once. And just weird and uncomfortable. No. Okay. So he explains to them that he is from a very wealthy German family and that he is in America. Like he's a foreign exchange student and can he stay with them because he's going to be going to the local high school. They're totally listening. They're totally listening to stranger things. Or my neighbor's downstairs. What are the chances? That's insane. People can't hear it. No, that's okay.

Oh shit. I'm sorry. If only we could lay in those queues as like it would like a radio show. And really we were just in like in a in a fucking bunker and where are we? In Germany? Germany. So sorry. No, it's okay. So basically he started going to high school in Connecticut and basically his whole thing is he wants to be American. He wants to blend in.

He becomes obsessed with Gilligan's Island and he starts talking like Thurston Halberford. Oh, that's cool. And when he appears in this documentary, that's who he's talking like. And it wasn't until I was reading this article where they mentioned this specifically where I started laughing. Because they don't talk about in the documentary? He does talk about it, but they talk about it like it's an inside. He goes, the guy who who makes the documentary, who was friends with him brings it up, but they don't like

he the Clark Rockfeller like kind of brushes it off like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he totally sounds like him. But he's talking like this. Oh my God, that's perfect. And he's basically saying it's the funniest, but also it's that thing where I don't like to usually I don't like to listen to killers, especially I never watch anything where the serial killer is talking. I don't give a fuck what that guy has to say. He's evil. This guy's different though, because he's a con man first.

And foremost, even though, yes, he's a bad person, killer, all of that. But he is a fascinating mind because he was smart enough to like as a teen con all these people. So he goes to this high school. He decides that he wants to be an actor, so he heads west, but he makes it as far as Wisconsin. And he decides he's going to go to the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee. So once he's there, he decides he needs to he's been in in the United States long enough where he needs a green card basically needs to become a citizen. So he decides he's going to marry a local 22 year old woman.

And who he explains to her that he he needs the green card, because if he gets sent back to Germany, he will have to fight in the Cold War on the Russian front. Now, if you knew anything about anything, I mean, and I barely know anything about anything. But when I read that, I was like, Hey, wait a second, pretty sure the Cold War didn't have a front. Because the Cold War was all about tensions and basically threats. There's no such thing as there was no Russian front in the Cold War. I mean, there were places to go. There were bad things happening.

Definitely he if the idea was that he was going to get sent back to like East Berlin and have to spy on his neighbors. Yes, horrible. But there was no Russian for a prisoner of war because of or not a prisoner of war, accused of war crimes or something like that, like a political person. But there was no the Russian front was from World War Two. That was a bad, bad place to be. Anyway, she fell for it and married him.

And the next day he left for California. So I was like, was she was she in agreement and fine with it? But then later I read that she filed for divorce in 1992, 11 years later. Well, it's maybe she was like needed him. She's like a lesbian and like he's her family story. Yeah. Oh, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, I was I immediately wrote the story of she was just heartbroken and like

pining in Milwaukee for this fabulous European that bailed on her the day after. Because it said their wedding. So it's it sounded like it wasn't just the basics like science and papers like they had a wedding. Oh, no. Oh, that's sad. A little crazy. All right. So he or maybe she like is like me and is just bad about paperwork and doesn't get

she's done in time. So she's like, oh, that's right. I have to get divorced. I'll do it when I meet someone else. I'll do it when I'm good reason that she's on Tinder swiping, swiping, swiping. Come on. So he heads out to California. Now this is it's so fascinating.

He goes to San Marino. Now, I don't know if you've ever been to Huntington Gardens. Oh, you're from down here, you know, San Marino is like so Pasadena is a rich area that very few people I know live in because it's like old money rich, you know, you have to live out of the city. San Marino is richer than Pasadena. It's the it's the city nestled up right next to Pasadena where all the mansions are. It's gorgeous. It's crazy.

There's like all the streets are like wide and you're legally not allowed to park on the street. So when people are parked on the street, the cops know that someone that doesn't belong here. No. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. There's you don't see cars on those streets in San Marino because everyone can park in their own driveway. Fuck off.

But also you legally can't. Fuck you. Yeah. Because they don't want their fucking housekeepers and shit parking there. Well, I bet the housekeepers are a part of the family. Okay. Who knows. But no, they definitely don't want any of the others.

Right. Any other. Anyone from outside. Yeah. God forbid you're just like you're just from like La Cognata and you're just trying to party and chew your gum and smoke your cigarettes and park on the street in San Marino. Don't do it in San Marino.

Don't you do it. They don't want you there. So this is a guy who's in his early twenties like college age. He's moving to LA to be an actor and he moves to San Marino to get so it doesn't make sense. No. San Marino, I looked it up. It was rated more expensive than Beverly Hills and Malibu to live in. So it just is nonsensical for like a young actor type to live there.

Sure. But that's what he was about. He was like a total, he was thirst and how the third and he was trying to go become that person in like a very real way. Yeah. So he got, he rented the guest house that was in one of the least nice houses in all of San Marino. There was, there is actually a slightly shabby part, which is just basically not million dollar

homes. And in one of those houses, a woman named Dee Dee Sohas had a guest house on her property. Dee Dee reportedly was an alcoholic who was always dressed in a house coat, which sounds like hey sister high five. Yeah. And Dee Dee had a son named John who was five foot five, super into Dungeons and Dragons, coke bottle glasses, and was married to a woman named Linda who was six, a six foot tall red head. They sound like fucking our type of people.

They are, they are our type of people. Yeah. They lived in like the house adjacent. So it was almost like this little compound and Clark Rockefeller at the time his name was, let's see, his name here was Christopher Chichester, which is the dumbest made up name of all time. Chichester, that sounds like when I said, what was it? Nancy is saying Nancy? Nancy Stacey.

That's, that wasn't as bad as Chichester. That's not as bad as Chris Chichester. Yeah. Just, it's like you stuttered three times. Yeah. Throw more season there. Are you dork? So, okay. So he shows up in San Marino.

He get, he's, he's, he's charming everybody. And what he tells them is that not only is he a computer expert, a film producer and a stockbroker. He is also the nephew of Lord Mountbatten. So what I kind of do like about this all is all the people that get tricked by this guy are people who are label horrors and status horrors. So anyone that's like. Impressed by. Impressed by someone talking like Thirst and Hell the Third and saying I'm, I'm related to Lord,

Lord Mountbatten. Yeah. Where like in my family, if you said that it'd be like, well, go do the dishes. It'd be like really Lord Mountbatten? Yeah. Can you go get some more beer out of the downstairs refrigerator? Right. But it's the, it's a lot of people and especially that's why he was going to places like San Marino.

You go to places where people work in those worlds and those are the people that are most impressed by, you know, you're all rich. Well, I'm a blue blood. Well, I'm a royal. I'm actually royalty. Yeah. There's someone that can come in and beat them at their own game. What's more interesting than that?

So the local said he was a whiz at everything he proved especially popular with the women who were very charmed by his royal bloodline and his courtly manners. One of the women said he knew everything about everything and he was just fabulous. Okay. So it's not just an act. He's really getting away with it and he was very, very smart. He sounds like it. So in 1985, tragedy strikes.

This is two years after Chris moves into the so Huss, the so Huss's, you know, house. Dee Dee's son, Jonathan and his wife, Linda go missing without a trace. Chris tells everybody that they told him that they were going to go to Europe. The family got a postcard from France, supposedly from the couple after the disappearance, but its authenticity has been questioned. And so soon after they disappear, Dee Dee so Huss disinherited her son who was beloved to her up until that point. The police think that she was convinced that he had abandoned her.

And after when Dee Dee died, they found that $180,000 of her estate had been looted. Her entire state, sorry. Her entire state was worth $180,000 and all of it had been taken. Oh, that's so sad. So. Dungeons and Dragons. Dungeons and Dragons. Um, in the late, I just say that, like it's, I mean something by it.

Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah. But we know what we mean. In the late 80s, police pull Christopher Chichester over in Greenwich, Connecticut. He's driving Jonathan so Huss's truck. The police, he leaves the area before police can interview him. I don't know what that means if he's like, Oh, well, thanks everybody. It was thanks for pulling me over.

Great to see you and just drives away. I'm not sure or if they meant I come to the neighborhood. Sounds like the neighborhood, right? It's just weird because if you've got him there and he's driving, so maybe they just had the information that it was that truck and they didn't put it together till later. But I looked it up Greenwich. In the year 2000, Greenwich was the third wealthiest town in Connecticut. So he's just going east coast.

Now he's going to do this on the east coast. A big money. Yeah. So he rents a post office box in Greenwich under the name Christopher C. Crow. CCC. He loves the C. He does. He literally walked into the Indian Harbor Yacht Club like he owned the place.

So there this is a rich town that has a yacht club and he rolled up on in. Here's how he was described. He looked like he walked out of a magazine. He always had his Burberry winter coat, Burberry umbrella, very fine cotton button down white shirts with CCC monogrammed on the pockets for Christopher Chai Chester Crow. Always pristine, always perfect. Sounds like what you wear whenever you go out.

Yeah. I do have my button down KLK shirt on. Bye. I'm so hot. Someone else said he's talking to you as if he's smarter, wealthier, more connected, more everything than you, no matter who you are. Thank you. So he's he's just playing the rich game and beating them at the rich game.

Because I think Thurston, how the third was the richest man on the planet. So if that's who he is, he's right. Yeah. So he sleeps with a woman. He so that basically his in and in Greenwich was this yacht club. Okay. He he starts sleeping with a woman who ends up getting him this really high level job in town at a broker dealer firm.

I don't know what that is. I cut my eyes were skipping over the part where it got into like finance, but basically a huge finance job. Okay. You have to take two tests to do this job, one called the series seven and one calls the series 63. There's seven. It's seven hours of questions.

Holy shit. And he passed it. What the shit. So he's not he's a very, very, very intelligent person. So now you know the brain that's being applied to conning people fair. A memorizer, an absorber of personalities and information and the kind of person that will tell you the perfect lie. Yeah.

He's Lord Mountbatten's nephew. He's not anybody's son. He's there's nothing direct. So, all right. So he's he stays at this job for two years. Oh my God. But he's super. People don't at first.

It's interesting that they have this royalty working there after two years. They're sick of hearing him talk. And he did the ultimate wrong move, which was the boss, the guy that hired him, who was the president of the company, wanted to access his own computer. And Chris wouldn't tell him how to do it because he thought if I'm the only one that knows how to do it and you don't know, I will never get fired. Instead, the guy in charge was like, get the fuck out of here and somebody else is going to teach me how to get into my computer.

Weird. Well, from there, he gets a better job. Oh my God. So he gets fired from that job and then he gets hired at a place called Niko. I don't it's another one of these like Wall Street jobs. Yeah, Karen, this is not our universe. I'm not interested in it. I don't like it.

Nope. I don't care. But essentially he does great there too for a couple years. But a couple people were on to him. This is all ended in the documentary because he would ask a question like, do you ever sold one of these? And the guy that he asked the question to is in the documentary who's like, that'd be like asking a dentist.

Do you know what a bicuspid is? Like it's one of the basics. So that guy was like, I was pretty sure something was going on. Yeah. And then of course, by the end, everyone just he's bragging and he's, you know, an asshole to everybody. So he gets fired from there. Then he goes to another company, a bigger company.

So he gets a better job. But each firing, he just is failing upwards. But this is the job where they finally do a background check. Oh, no, sorry. Two years after he got dismissed from the first place, they finally look him up. They'd run his social security number. And the social security number that he gave was David Berkowitz's The Son of Sam. Shut the fuck up.

That is the coolest part. It's amazing. So it's kind of like saying, if you check my shit, go fuck yourself. But no one ever did until after he left. Yeah. Okay. So holy shit. That's cool.

It's crazy. So in this third, the third job, someone at the third job finally looks into his background while he still works there and finds out that he is a person of interest in a missing person's case in California. How did that guy feel when he saw that? I mean, probably nervous, but stoked. Yeah, excited. And then hungry because it was right before.

So the Greenwich Police and the Connecticut State Police show up at this job. But that day, Christopher Chichester, no, sorry, Christopher Crow now. Christopher Crow didn't show up for work that day because he was onto them. He knew. But he called in to say he needed time off because his parents had been kidnapped in either Pakistan or Japan. But just say you don't feel well. Well, and also that's where your lies are getting a bit big.

Yeah. Like you pick one. Yeah. It's Pakistan. Yeah. But you have a hangover. Yeah. Or you're, yeah, you broke one of your teeth and you're out for a couple of days.

Your bicuspid. How about your bicuspid? So he disappears from Greenwich, Connecticut. And he reappears in New York City in 1992. And where does he go? Where did John List go when he had to start all over in a new town? The church. Church.

Church. Church. Church. You show, say with me, church. You show up at church with your song and dance. Yeah. And you have a built in community of people who are going to trust you. Totally.

Keep your eyes peeled, churches. So he rolls up. This is now when he has. Keep your eyes peeled, church. I say that as if that's something that's important. This is now when he's become Clark Rockefeller. So he's in New York City and he's introducing himself as a Rockefeller. That seems like something you'd want to introduce yourself anywhere but in New York City.

Well, but here's the thing. He knows the difference. So he specifies to these people at this church that he is from the Percy Rockefeller side, not John D. John D is the one. He's crazy rich. Percy still is super rich, but not John D level. So he, he always goes right under. Yeah.

You know, he goes in with the claim that's right. Believable enough. Yeah. Well, we're still talking millions of dollars. Crazy old American blue blood money. It still would impress people like my mom. Oh, he's a Rockefeller, you know. My grandmother used to say like she go pick that penny up off the floor.

We're not the Rockefellers. Totally. That was like a total grandma saying. Yeah. She also said a lot of racist stuff that I won't repeat. So don't listen to her. Um, she was a good person at heart as the times make America great again. All right.

He claimed to have gone to Yale like when he was 14. He had a Yale scarf with the blue stripes. He said he had one of the J boats from his grandparents, which was a classic 30s sailing yacht. Yeah, I did too. Yeah. Don't we all. So basically what he learned is that if you joined private clubs in a big city,

um, and, and they're all like clubs. No one's ever even heard of the, the low dose and stuff like that where I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm clearly as working classes. You can get will never be no, no more clothes will never be asked to. No, they're not going to ask us. No, I don't think so. But this is where the Vanderbilt's and the Whitney's and the Roosevelt's and the Rockefellers, they've all been socializing since the 1800s.

So he learns the kind of language of private clubs and those people. And then all of his lies become believable because he's speaking their language and saying this stupid shit that they all say to each other over cucumber sandwiches. Hey, I wonder what it's all whispering about cash. Yeah. Transactions. Lots of trend words. Yeah.

What a transaction. Bonds. Bonds. War bonds. War bonds. They're polio. Polo. Polio.

Polo. They meant polio. They meant polio. You meant the disease. Yeah. Because Roosevelt had that. Yeah. You got to talk about it.

Right. Cool or am I? So. Oh, sorry. I lost my place and I'm hallucinating from the heat. I'm so sorry. No, there's nothing you can do. So, oh, I was on the totally wrong page.

I tried to do that scrolling thing that I do. All right. So. Okay, so he married in 1995. He marries a woman that he met through St. Thomas Church, this church that he went to. And she was a Harvard MBA who rose to be one of the youngest partners in history at McKinsey.

I don't know what that is. Uh-uh. Law firm. Probably. She had a $2 million salary. She was like a legendary business woman. Fuck, man. He meets her church.

They hit it off and they get married. He has a way with the ladies. Yeah. He explains to her that none of his family is going to be at the wedding because there had been an argument and he had disinvited all of them. So he has no family there. First flag.

But he marries into her family and they have a child named Ray, which I actually like that name for a girl. Ray. Ray, R-E-I-G-H. Oh. That's cute. He nicknamed her Snooks. Snooks.

Which may have been something Thurston how the third called his wife. Snooks, yeah. He'd insisted on raising her and educating her himself. I would love to meet and talk to her. Oh my God, she's the coolest. So anyway, they ultimately get divorced and she, the wife, has to pay him $800,000 in alimony.

And he won the, the white, the, but she, sorry, she won the right to raise Ray in London. So in 2008, a court supervised visit in Boston, Rockefeller kidnaps Ray. Oh no. So she's seven years old there. He's meeting up with Ray and the court appointed like social worker basically.

And he runs up, pushes that woman over, grabs the little girl and jumps into a car and drives away. The, the social worker actually ran after and grabbed onto the back bumper of the car for like a little bit trying to do something about it. Oh my God. But don't worry, he was, he lived with this little girl. He just wanted her in his life.

He wasn't going to harm her in any way. How can we know that? But everyone in this documentary says it. It's like they would never, he worshiped her and he, she was everything to him and they, and he got caught two weeks later. Okay. So the, but there wasn't, he, he had set up a new identity

in Baltimore. That's where he was going to become Chip Smith, a professional yacht captain and catamaran designer. But he, he got caught immediately. He was, in 2009, he was convicted and sentenced to four to five years for abducting his daughter and two to three years for the assault on the social worker who did get in, injured by that SUV that he had waiting.

But we'll circle back around now because in 1994, the new owners of the So Huss's house in San Marino were digging to build a new pool and they found two bodies deep, deep underneath the ground in the backyard of the So Huss's house and it was, the family members said the bones matched Jonathan So Huss's general description, but he was adopted. So they, they couldn't do a family DNA match. Um, well, so she adopts this kid and he's this like great

nerd and she loves him so much. But she's kind of a loser. And then he takes, but then he finds love in a six foot redhead and they're kind of this mismatched couple that are making it happen. And then she thinks he just leaves her. Yes. Oh, that's the saddest thing I've ever heard.

The, the, so forensic evidence showed that the victim, who's Jonathan, had been struck in the head two times with a rounded blunt object, then stabbed six times. Holy shit. His body had been cut into three parts and the body parts had been put into book bags from the University of Wisconsin and from USC where, um, Chris. Cha-Chang Clark.

All these people, he had actually sat in on film classes, never registered as a student, but he used to go to USC and go to classes. He just wasn't actually a student. Wow. And so, um, that circumstantial evidence combined with the fact that he was arrested driving Jonathan's truck in Greenwich, uh, basically convicted him of murder.

Um, sorry, they, there was only one body buried in the backyard. They never found Linda. Linda. Um, What do you think she is? Well, the police suspect that Clark had an affair with Linda. Oh no. Because basically he, Clark thought he was in with Didi and

thought that he was going to get her money and get the house and be in San Marino and like have his life. Yeah. And then Jonathan and Linda were basically what were standing in the way of that. Yeah. And I think, and he thought, you know, I'll get this is just this crazy old drunk lady.

Yeah. I'm going to get her to sign everything over to me and then I'm going to have the life I want. And then Linda and Jonathan are just like, you need to move out of here. And basically that's where it started. So he, the theory is that he tried to break them up as a couple and then he murdered Jonathan. So Linda might be out in the world.

They think she's dead. Yeah. She's dead. Yeah. They just think that he brought the body somewhere else. That's so sad. I believe. Yeah.

Um, he was charged with Jonathan's murder. Uh, and he, and the trial was in April of 2013 and he was convicted of first degree murder. Uh, and he's now in some weird jail in ironwood jail in Blythe, California. Wow. Can I see a photo of him? Yeah. I want to see him like a mugshot. It's so funny because when they talk about like that he's good looking and stuff

or that he had a way with the ladies. Nope. Well, let's see. Is he hot? I mean to each his own. Oh my God. He's like a nerd. Well, and also when you see him talking, it's even worse.

He's got no mouth. Because he kind of talks like this. It's like somebody in a bad like mustard commercial where you're like, what, why would you talk like that? He looks like he is a character in The Simpsons. Yeah. Like, oh no, where's his mouth? He's just kind of, um, you know, I'm sure he was insecure as a teen.

Sure. And all of that, plus being really smart, you know, just made up for. I don't see him being a ladies man, but good for him. It's all in the brains, brains, brains. Brains, brains, brains. Brains. Well, that's fucking sad. Yeah.

But it's playful. It's not as dark, but then it kind of is actually. He like went and had, you know, the crazy rich man's life. And it actually worked for a little while, but. Let's take a cue from him and start living our lives, not lies. No more lies. No more lies. No more drama.

Let's be as confident as him. Okay. That is a nerdy as the guy he killed. And I don't know. And as rich as someone who lives in San Marino. That's that I like. I would love to live in San Marino. Would you?

Well, yeah. I think a nice house. I mean, I, you would need to be constantly making money. So you could just pay those property taxes. Sounds so exhausting. They have to work at like a hedge fund thing. Yeah. Then you have to be the kind of person that's like, I need the better.

I need the Louis Vuitton version of this. Isn't it worth it to spend all this stupid money and make people think you're rich to make money and get rich? It's dumb. I'm good. Yes. No, I'm fine. I'm lazy.

I'm not interested in most of that stuff anyway. I just, I just want the relief of not having debt. Yeah. But being rich, I don't think it really adds up to what I don't think it fills the hole that people are so convinced it's going to give. I want enough money that I don't have to wonder where my next money is coming from. Yeah. And, you know, maybe in five years, but not really.

Yeah. But how much is that? I don't know. Well, and also, you know, I heard from the great Jerry Seinfeld himself who said that he heard money that there was some study that they did money doesn't make you happy. Money never makes people happy. It's human connection that makes people happy, which I found very powerful coming from the richest man on the face of the earth where obviously I was like, yeah, this must be,

you must have had some stake in this because what you're saying to me right now is that that your money doesn't make you that happy. Yeah. So you're looking trying to find out what does and it's human connection. Yeah. I also heard that like there's if people are happy until at a certain amount of money and then anything over that that decreases your happiness decreases. How many lottery winners go buck wild bananas crazy?

Totally. And I just want one never come back. 1.5 million is all I need. Is that all you need? Yeah. Yeah, it's not a lot. It's really not today's standards. No, really.

It's you couldn't buy a house for that much. It's not enough. No, you can't live here with that. Fuck. Okay, I want more than that then. Kick it up. Let's take it up to the six seven area. Well, when that rich person gets a jet and comes to her show it comes to us in Harmontown,

they can tell us his money full of envelope. I was I was hoping it would be John Travolta flying in from Florida. That's what I pictured in my mind. That's where he has his house with the airplane hanger right outside. Damn. You've seen it. Yeah. Cool.

Anything else? I have a hometown murder, but it's kind of depressing too. So I don't know if maybe it'll be just like not worth it. You did. Didn't you do a hometown murder at the end of yours? I did. Yeah, I forgot it.

Yeah. And it and it perfectly laid right in. It did, didn't it? Word Elvis Elvis came out right when she were ending because he was like cute. We should thank Steven. Yeah. Thank you, Steven. Our beautiful engineer who gave us microphones.

Yeah. They're beautiful. Thank you. You really are gorgeous. Steven, you've been killing it. We appreciate it. Thank you for all your help. Elvis is sitting there waiting.

Elvis, it's your big chance. Oh, okay. Wait, can we try and do this? Do we do it before or after we say? Elvis, you want a cookie? You want a cookie? You want to see your microphone? We usually do it after because stay sexy.

Don't get murdered. Word Elvis cookie.