My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 35 - A Small Foreign Faction

Episode Date: September 23, 2016

This week on My Favorite Murder, Karen and Georgia reflect and ruminate on the circus surrounding the life and death of JonBenét Ramsey. Pop culture gone mad.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Oh, I was thinking about my old roommate who used to scream sneeze and I was getting legitimately angry about the amount of time I spent with people I didn't like in the 90s because I was on drugs and drink. Maybe you weren't drugs and drink because you couldn't stand the most of the people you were around. I think that had a lot to do with it and yet I felt very like suit, fakely loyal or something or like, like I was supposed to make it work out somehow. But

if your friends are the scream-sneezer, cancel the friendship immediately. It's the most obnoxious habit in the world. Like what happened to you that you need attention when you sneeze? My mom. What happened to her? I don't know, but she's scream-sneezer. Wait, she listens, we can't talk about her anymore. She's fine. Mom. Mom. She knows what she fucking did to me in my life. It is because it's just, you know your sneeze is coming if you're a scream-sneezer. I don't. She said, well, all of a sudden it's someone screaming. She loves attention. There's no, you're completely right about that. Yeah. Like that's a thing, that's a, that's a connection. Yeah. Mom, I love you, but Jesus fucking Christ. I mean, she knows, she doesn't care.

Yeah. Do you think a lot of people think that they just started this podcast accidentally, like, skip the beginning of it? Yes. Really, that was the beginning? That was the beginning. We're trying new beginnings. It's called we're just a hard complain at the top, angry complaining. Then we go into our pre-written intro. Go ahead, Georgia. Hey, thanks for tuning into my favorite murder. My name is Georgia Hartstark. And my name's Ken Calguero. And this is pre, we've been practicing this for months. We wrote it and then we sent it off to a professional editor. They sent back some suggestions. Yep. God, that was a great beginning of a podcast.

You're welcome for being fucking professional. That's why this episode is so expensive for you guys. Yeah, that's right. Because of this amazing high quality writing. Yeah. How much money we spend on this. We don't even say, have we said the words? My favorite murder yet? I think I mentioned it. Okay, go, go, go, go, go. Anyway, do you want to just kick right into corrections corner? Absolutely. I have one. Go ahead. No, no, no. Okay. Because I actually, I do have like one that I did, I fucked up last week. Oh, well, I'm not like. So trying to steal my thunder. Why would you do so this mass shooting in Australia led to

crazy strict gun laws, which is amazing. And everyone who messaged me was like, we thought that the Sandy Hook shooting was going to be the same incident. Right. And we think you're a terrible place because it wasn't. But here's ours. Here's this positive thing. And it's great and amazing. And we're all very happy with ourselves. Did you tell them about our saltwater taffy? Because we can be pretty great when we try. Yes. Yes. There are people who are, who have major problems getting guns to kill children specifically. Yes. They don't have, the problem is they don't have major problems getting guns. No, I meant they have problems in their lives. Yes. They are getting guns. And how, yeah. And however, it's very easy for them

to get guns, even though they have major problems. It's, it's totally fine for them to get guns. Let's talk about gun control. Oh, yes. Who doesn't love to hear all about that. All right. What's your corrections corner? Mine is the simple fact that Peoria is not three miles away from Chicago, but three hours. And I swear to fucking Christ, every single person in the Midwest texted and tweeted and told me about it. Personal friends, distant strangers, everybody who could possibly say it was, and they were saying it as if I had said Abraham Lincoln was our first president. Like, excuse me, Peoria is not three miles away. Karen, as the, as the other half of this podcast, I'm exonerating you from that needing to be a fucking thing for you to apologize for.

Sometimes when I'm reading off my Wikipedia printout, my eye will tell me something that isn't there on the page. That's what happens. And like, okay. All right. So we're in Los Angeles. If someone said that in San Francisco is three hours from here, would you say no, would you tell them it's six hours and would it make a difference? No, you know what I would do? I would withhold the true information and then I would gloat. There you go. Yeah. I would say I'm better than that person secretly. Everyone needs just to be more selfish. Yeah, they do. There. Glote more. Set it. Talk to us less. In episode 35, Karen and Georgia just became real mean. Just became big assholes. It was weird. They went into gun control shit and then they

just got rude. And that's when I said I've had it. Uh, here's a positive. Okay. Cause it's not all like that with us. I have a positive too. Go ahead. Do you really? Yeah. Well, my positive, you know about, but let's fake and pretend like you've never heard this story before. So Stephen hasn't heard it. Stephen, I'm not even looking at you anymore. Stephen, don't look at me. So I was doing something working probably and then killing time before I had to go somewhere else. So when I have an hour to kill, I go to J crew or some such place where I can get a long sleeve cotton shirt. Real quick haters. This is not a fucking ad. No, no, no, no, no. J crew has paid us to do. No, we're not sneaking and added on you. No, we haven't done that yet.

And we were super, we're blatant. Yeah, that's right. They haven't paid us enough to sneak and add in on you yet yet. Um, so I go over to the grove. If you are not, if never visited Los Angeles or not from around here, the grove is like three hours away from three hours from the heart of Los Angeles is a mall that where they basically tried to make it if there was a small town where everyone was obsessed with shopping. That's what the grove looks like. There's a train or a trolley or something. Gardens. So anyhow, I go into J crew, try to get myself a shirt. And the guy, the first guy that says, how are you? Or do you want me to help? And I'm like, no, no, leave me alone. And then he asked me again a little bit later. And I'm like, does he think I'm a shop

lifter? I've worked retail. I know what this year patrolling me. Um, and then finally he came up and he goes, what's your name? And I go, Karen. And he goes, what's your last name? And I go, what are you doing? Never tell them your last name. And then he goes, are you from the podcast, Michael murder? And I said, yes. And then he lost his mind on me. And he told me this is the thing that got me. So look, we are having some nice success with this podcast. It's very, very exciting. It's very exciting. It's quite bewildering. Yeah. And it's just like a weird, it's just weird. Yeah. But I didn't think we were to the level of people recognizing us from a podcast at the grove. No, that's, that's the grove is like the biggest. It's like the, it's like tourists go there.

Yes. It's like a big thing. Mario Lopez does a show from there. Mario fucking Lopez does a show from there. It's a high end recognition spot. Definitely. So Trey, who is the young man who is talking to me. What's up, Trey? You think they're listening right now? Oh, yes, I do. Because what he told me was that the J crew of the grove listened to our podcast when they shut down at night and have to fold down the store. Love you. So they, he couldn't believe that no one that he closes with was there to see. Do you think that they all think he's lying and now this is happening? Well, girl, we took a picture to prove. And then someone wrote to the Twitter page and said, I can't believe I

wasn't on shift when Trey met Karen for my favorite murder. And the whole thing was just this super cute. He was so happy. It just is so wonderful to see people that excited. And well, yeah, that was the cutest thing, Steven. Is that at one point he was just asking me all these questions and stuff. And then at one point he goes, where's Georgia right now? I was just like, I honestly don't know. That's so cute. All right. So we're going to do a personal appearance. We're going to do surprise drop in. Oh, what? A J crew closed closing shift drop in at the grove. Yeah. Right now. And then everyone turns around to the door. Where's shoplifting? I'm going to go in there and shoplifting and see if anyone says a word to my face. You know, they won't.

So deal with that level. Steven, get on this level of fame that we're now all on. Steven, you're going to get recognized next. Not me. I hope so. No, I'm waiting for someone to yell to me. Like a transaction or like a thing. And then for someone to yell, stay sexy. Because like that would be that's my dream is that someone doesn't say they recognize me doesn't say listen to the podcast. But when I'm leaving our interaction, our transaction or whatever the fuck, a parking lot, they yell at me. They do a shout out. I will fucking scream at the top of my lungs. Don't get murdered. Will you scream sneeze at them? At the top of your lungs? At the top of my nasal passages. You know, it's funny though, like my friend Alison Agosti, who I work with. Love the

shit out of her. She's the greatest. And I worked with her and I walked into our writers room the other day and there's like, you know, nine people in there or whatever. And she goes, I was listening to your podcast and then I got all embarrassed and like shut her down basically. And I later had to go, sorry, I received that incorrectly. I was like, it's that thing where like, it's super exciting. And I don't want to overly be like, let's talk about it for five minutes. Yeah. Because I'm, of course, I'm so judgmental of others that I'm positive I'm going to get that judgment back. Well, I keep hoping my parents will then do it and I can be like, no, it's a great, it's a big, they don't care. Right. Oh, I got, my sister started listening. Oh, right. This is a miracle

of all miracles is my sister Laura is now a listener and constantly texting me things we need to do, things we need to say. It's definitely need to talk about. Let's have older sister corner. Yes. The older sisters are. We should, for sure. She had some very interesting observations about the Jean Benet special. Hey, speaking of not to segue corner you right into what we're doing, but let's take a, let's take a casual, super casual, quick break. Did you just let me off? Oh, you lifted your middle finger while you were taking a drink. No. It's very subtle. I actually flip people off like this, where I barely move my, it's just your two fingers. Side fingers. I just very slightly let my middle finger out.

It's more feminine. I just remember in elementary school, because everything got scrutinized and everything you did was stupid to everyone. Yes. Like the way you flip people off was made fun of. Yes. So I just got really good at doing it correctly. So you do the one where it's two shorter fingers. You don't pull all your fingers. I pull all my fingers down. Pull all your fingers down. That is the proper. Fuck you. Oh, instead of this. Yeah. I don't know what that is. This is California. That looks like a cute little bird or something. This is NorCal. Fuck you. Where you kind of leave your surrounding middle fingers up. They're like, they're like between the first and second knuckle. This is so visual that we should not be talking through. I mean, it's insanity.

Let's go. Let's take a casual, quick break and we'll teach each other our middle fingers. Okay. And then we'll come back and you guys ready for Jean Benet? All Jean Benet, all the time. It's Jean Benet time, everybody. Let's do it. How many, there needs to be a code word for when we're not actually going to take it. Like, because we always say, let's not take, let's not do this. Let's take it out. But like, when do we mean it? And when do we not? Oh, you like it almost like a safety. Yeah. They call that during sex, like a safe word. Yeah. Because Stephen gets confused and he goes to write something and I'll be like, no, just kidding. Leave it in. I take it as a challenge. Yeah. That's right. You Stephen

is the, we leave this all up to Stephen. He beautifully edits. I imagine if he just had to like the whole thing is this kind of insane bullshit. And then Stephen, Stephen's our cult leader and it's just whatever he says goes. Right. No, I'm in the basement. I have no basement. This is like the Alamo. And we're back. Let's make jokes and stuff and then get into something real fucked up. Well, people have been continually tweeting us since like the ads for the Jean Benet special started saying can't wait for it to hear what you guys say about all this. Me too. Then when I went to a Tivo at the other night, there were three choices. I have a question. Yes. Do you still have Tivo or do you just still call it that? I call it that. Okay. It's my,

that's my verb of that because I'm DVRing is stupid. Yeah. No, I'm fine with the Tivo word. I just didn't know if that was still a thing. If I had the actual brand. Yeah. No, I've dragged TV. Okay. You must know. Again, no one's paying a shit for any of this. Shit for fuck. Shit for fuck. If they want to give us fuck for shit, then they can mark it. They can email. Mark this, Stephen. But what's the safe word? Scream sneeze. Just kidding. All right. So, yeah, so, so there's, you had multiple John Benets. There were three choices. Yeah. And then I was like, oh, I don't know. When I am met with that kind of a life challenge, which is choose which the correct made for TV

docu series about John Benet's murder. Choose your own Jaminet adventure. I like totally turn the channel. I'm like, oh, look, Father Brown's on when I just watched something. So I forgot to fucking talk about how obsessed I am with our new I want your DNA inside of me. Who? Who? Rami. Rami. Rami. That's what I was going to say. I know I was too. And that's why I stopped talking. I was like, Carol, get it right. I'm so into Rami manual. He's so dishonest. It's fucking hot. But I've been watching Mr. Rami Malek. Rami Malek. We'll talk about it next time. Okay. But I've been obsessed speaking of things I just don't want to deal with. And that's why I watch something is with my Mr. Robot. Oh, yeah. It's that's a great show. All right. Very good show.

I feel like we're desecrating the fucking memory of Jean Benet by just not taking it seriously. Look, there's no way. First of all, if we are, we're not the first because watching these specials for me, one of the overarching feelings was this is disgusting. It's disgusting because they would show these pictures of her that do that intentionally do not look like a six year old. Yeah. Where you just go what the thing that I was surprised that they didn't talk about in at least the CBS one, which is the one I watched this morning on CBS.com streaming had to join pay 599 for a free membership. What again, they're not paying us anything as you can tell but the fact that Karen had to pay. I had to pay money and I'm mad because I did it going. I just

need to get this taken care of. I'll cancel it later. I'm not going to know you're not in five months. I will have paid them like $50 for never watching. And they should be paying you to talk about them. How cocky I've become. All right. So, okay. When I joked that it was a choose your own adventure, I what I that is actually completely correct because I tried to watch a couple of them and every single one of them is so clearly with agenda. Yes. Pregnant with agenda. Yes. And some of them won't and I won't say who and what won't show the photos of her as a normal child. Right. Because yeah, it doesn't that doesn't serve what their their their media message of what they're talking about. There's a video of her that to me and I wrote in the thing I wrote that

like for L.com. Can I plug it? I just suddenly felt awkward about it. Get used to it. I'm not plugging in. I'm just how fucking happy I am. And I might cry from like how good it feels because I started on live journal writing. Let's I'm going to be honest. And I didn't graduate community college. And you wrote two amazing articles for L.com that were so readable and so wonderful. Thank you. They're on our Twitter feed. If you need to find them, they're great reads. Karen, that means so much coming for me because I think you're an incredible writer. My friend. And that means a lot to me. And my sister said the same thing. Oh my god. And she's a teacher who kind of can't spell. That means a lot to me. Now that she's listening, I'm going to

do stuff like I would like to thank the editors of L for making me look like I know how to punctuate shit. Apostrophe S's will be the death of me. But they didn't they made it not seem that way. Okay. Anyways. Oh yeah. In it, I was like, go everyone stop and go look at photos of her as a normal kid. Yes. Because it's a different fucking story. And one there's this video of her that they show in slow mo of her mom. It's her as a little kid. It's like a home video where her mom is scratching the top of her head as she nestles her head into her mom's leg. Have you seen this? Yeah. And it's just so sweet and human and reminds me of me and my mom as a kid. And then it's it's this like goofy sweet little girl whose mommy is is comforting her and

and doing this thing. She probably does a lot which is scratch her head. You know, we all have this thing. Very maternal. Very comforting thing. Now was this before or after Patsy had died her hair blonde? Because I didn't know that I didn't know that it was died. I don't know why. And that when the friend in a CBS one, when the friend talks about seeing John Bonnet for the first time with dyed blonde hair and Patsy being like, no, it's just lying about it. She lied about it. But then I thought if she was murdered when she was six, she must have had that blonde hair for at least a couple months, if not a year before, which means someone died a five year old hair blonde bleach. I mean, bleaching your hair is disgusting. If you've ever had your hair

dyed women know it's like a very gross, intense chemical process on a five year old. That's crazy. Just but I don't but in the page, pageantry circuit, I don't think it's that weird, which was which she was in. Yes, except weird. That's my that was my point is no one talks about that the pageantry circuit is basically a strange weird commercial for pedophiles. And there's no there's no reason you should have a six year old girl dressed like an Atlanta heiress or Harris. There's no there's no reason we should be seeing a little girl basically cosplaying an adult but every but I okay, here's my thing with John Bonnet where I'm seeing the whole case is that I will argue the opposite of anything that's argued. Yes, because there's such a huge argument because

it's there's never going to be any conclusions. Yes. And every single piece of evidence and I wrote some of them down has an argument for the other side. Right. Exactly. And that's what I kind of love about this is because I really don't like being like this is my opinion. And here's the argument why I won't listen to you and your opinion. It's like I'm not doing that. Not you. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, like any other debate that people have. Right. No, exactly. When people absolutely decide how they feel and won't come off of it. No, I totally I agree that in every other way, except for it unnerves me how normalized the pageant system is where it's, it's only little girls. But that's the thing is that it is normalized for certain people,

including Patsy Ramsey, who was a pageant queen. And they're from the south. Yes, true. So it wasn't that weird to her. It wasn't like she was in her mind abusing this girl and dyeing her hair. It was like, I don't think it's necessarily abuse. I just think it's a it you're putting shit on a child, a little girl long before she needs to be dealing with it. I completely agree with all of it. I just don't. It's just like when people present not you, when it is presented that there are there is proof that this is why these why she was murdered by the parents and how fucked up these things were. I just don't think they are like a lot. I agree. No, no, I'm not I'm not arguing that the pageants prove they did it. I'm arguing that the that dying a six year old's hair shows

very bad decision making skills and and just a weird. Yeah. But these are people that like, I also didn't know they had two of their own planes. I didn't know they were the level of rich that they are. If you're arguing that dying a four year olds hair blonde is is proof that this parent doesn't have the best the child's best interest in mind and therefore it makes sense why she would have been part of the maybe the murderer of the cover up. I then I agree with you. Yeah, yeah. That that makes sense to me. Yeah. Man, should we get into this? Yeah, we're I tell you we're in a starter. Should we are we starting? Stephen, can you hit play? Can you delete? Oh, man. I mean, OK, the CBS thing and here one of the rules on our Facebook group is don't

talk shit about other podcasts. That's right. And the hosts of the CBS show have a true crime podcast. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Stephen, why don't you go ahead and look that up? If you don't mind. I just think so. I liked them a lot. And I think they had the best interest. And I don't think I think they're an integrity based people. I just think that the moment you are clearly going for a certain. What's the word? Agenda. Agenda. You can't like the moment I saw that John Ramsey was being interviewed for one of the documentaries. I was like I was out because he wouldn't agree to do it unless it was for him. Yeah. Yes, that's right. So what did you think about Burke Ramsey's interview with? I didn't watch it. I watched on Dr. Phil. Yeah,

I didn't watch it either. But you saw that he was smiling a lot of it. Yes. Yes. I think that Burke Ramsey might be on the spectrum. That's what I thought, too. I don't think it's fair to. I don't think any of this is fair. Isn't a isn't a sign of anything. No, that's nerves. Yeah. Here's the thing. If you have been around TV or done TV, I've watched a lot of people act super weird on TV. Yeah. Especially I don't know was that that whole thing pre-taped like there was no audience when he was talking to Dr. Phil or no audience. Yeah. See, and I think I said this before, but the reason I didn't watch it is because I have a friend who's a producer on it and she was like nothing came of it. They didn't feel anything. So then I was like, oh, it's boring. But then a bunch

of people started tweeting at us of like this behavior and all this different stuff. It was definitely weird behavior. But I don't think it was indicative of someone who is guilty or innocent or you can read anything out of it. Is it was it weird for a person that has two planes? I mean, like this is a person that's never literally never done an interview before in his life. No. And probably never had to really be in the world in a real way in his life. And so I think the reason this whole interview happened is because he they somehow knew that the CBS documentary was coming out that kind of pointed towards him. So this is like a quick fuck. Let's let's get this out before that comes out. So he maybe didn't even want to do it. No way did he want to do it. He's freaked

out. Oh my God, there's so much to talk about. But he also, you know, there he's already suing CBS. Is he really that's what that's what someone told me at work today because we were all talking about this morning. Yeah. And because I said everyone was talking about why possibly would they have reduced it from three or four episodes to two. And I was saying it could have been a thing where they let them do it. But they said because they because I'm obsessed, of course, with the pageant part and the and any kind of the any it felt like any they just dismiss any any kind of sexual molestation or anything. They just dismissed it out of hand, which seems very unlikely to me. I wrote that in the L article that it's like, oh, yeah, I'm ripping you off from the L article.

Can you not? It was my idea. I'm going to see you for what's it called when someone copies your shit. Just copying. Steven, make me sound smarter in that clip. All right. Okay, here's who's looking for the button. I know your button nose. Here's the stuff I liked from that I didn't know about from the CBS show. I really loved. I love handwriting and linguistic analysis. I think it's fucking fascinating. Yeah. The fact that someone pointed out that no one would ever write that they were a small foreign faction. Yes. You make yourself seem bigger. Right. You don't seem like you're a small little group of people. Yes. Very interesting. And also no one calls themselves foreign. Right, exactly. And if you are a band

getting together right now and you don't name yourself small foreign faction, you're a fucking idiot. I'll murder you. Yeah. Punk rockers. Get it together. I know that for it. There was like all those things about the phrasing and the like, and sorry if I'm jumping on this on yours, but I was freaking out when they got to the part where the the ransom letter quotes speed. I didn't know. Dirty Harry. Dirty Harry. Just like you how so if if this is Patsy and and John and they're covering up, you know, the one theory that they were really shoving in your face on the CBS one. If that was true, then they really think that they're so much smarter than everybody else. Yeah. That they can add in lines from the movie speed and have nobody catch on. They absolutely do.

Okay, really quick. Steven was like, brought his phone. I mean, to show me a thing that I asked him and I completely forgot what I had asked him. So I was like, what is he? I don't remember what I'm okay. The podcast that the hosts of the CBS show do is real crime profile profile, which I listened to. It's a great podcast. Okay. Yes, I agree. Let's you know what, let's okay. So let's start. You ready to start? Let's um, what is your theory? Like overall, like what's your favorite theory? Oh, I think that I think it was Burke. Okay. Okay. Hey, I'm Arisha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most

famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston, Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a diva will tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow even the rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. How do we think? I think Burke got angry and didn't I don't think he meant to do it. No, I don't either. I don't think I think he wanted to hurt her. Yeah, I think that but a lot of the

stuff that they named that was like, Oh, you know, God forbid that he do this or that is all stuff little kids do brothers and sisters, especially are really mean and vicious with each other. So like a lot of that stuff didn't freak me out because it's like, yeah, yeah, you hit, you hit your brother or sister with a piece of train track or whatever. My sister and I used to I talked about it before getting getting into fights where you're being beaten with a remote control and shit. The first time I got punched in the stomach was when I was like five by my sister. Yeah, like that is a standard thing because you as a kid, you don't know how strong you are. You don't know how much it hurts and you're angry and you have no parental supervision.

Yep. I wrote an article that my that our friend Cat Solon, her brother bears her childhood teeth mark scar on his body because they were so angry that they did that. You just get angry at people. But and also it's the thing of if he did that and he was super angry and it does make sense that she's the little princess that gets all of the mom's attention and he was older. It would have been different if he was younger, but he's older. So he was used to having all of her attention and not got kind of redirected, which is very painful and awful. If he already was having a little bit of like developmental or if there's just some issue with like he's a little slower, he's a little bit emotionally off, whatever it is. Yeah, which is which a lot of things I read

say he was a little bit of a weird kid, which I mean, I grew up with a weird kid. I understand that they're weird. Yeah. Yes. That doesn't mean they're yeah. Here's the thing my sister said. She texted me and said the thing with the feces is really bad. That's usually a sign of sexual molestation. I know. The wedding, the bed thing. So Jean Benet wet her bed regularly. They said Burke might have too. That to me is hard because I wet my bed later than I should have. I did too. I sucked my thumb until like second grade. I was never molested. Right. So it's hard. You can't just say that definitively. No, but the shit thing is a much bigger deal because even when you're little, you don't it's not natural to like it was as if they were saying and I don't know

any more than what they presented on that. Yeah. But it was as if they were saying he like would shit on her stuff or he would like wipe shit places and my sister has been a grammar school teacher for over 20 years. Yeah. She has a master's degree and like in developmental education or whatever. I'm not exactly sure. Fix her degree. But essentially this is what she does and deals with kids a lot that are going through this and she was just like that's bad. That's that's the worst thing she heard in the whole thing was anytime a kid is like got his hands and shit and he's not a baby. Well, she had this is something they revealed in the CVS thing is that she had a great fruit sized shit in her bed. Right. That sounds painful and fucked up and and not not

normal. No, no, like he was collecting it or no, that she just saved having to go to the she was so uncomfortable going to the bathroom that she waited until she was in bed. Oh, I thought I thought he put it there from what because they said the maid found it. Right. And I was thinking that he was like trying to wreck her shit because the other stuff make her look like a gross. Yes. Can I say that like I kind of I feel bad for Burke in this whole thing. It's very bad. And then I read something, you know, I made everyone on our Facebook group and send us their theories and send us what they found that was interesting and their thoughts and everything. And one of them was that that Burke actually doesn't even know that he doesn't know that he caused that blow. He might

have done it and they were like go to bed and he doesn't remember it. He may be somewhere deep down does, but he doesn't know that he put that whole thing into action. I feel bad for this kid who clearly has some issues. I think he knows something though, because remember that interview he has with the cop and he won't say the cop pineapple. Yeah, what's in the bowl and he just won't say it like there are those weird things he goes. Oh, yeah. So in the CBS documentary, they show clips, which is like, I could watch this for hours of of Burke being interviewed by a psychologist or social worker posts, like when he was a kid, the only time they there was two times they let him be questioned. And in it, you know, they're talking and actually, it's amazing. They show him a photo

of this, the table, the crime scene table, which has a bowl of pineapple out with Burke's fingerprints on it and in Jean Benet's stomach, after she died is an undigested piece of pineapple. Right. And so they should the the social worker, the psychologist shows Burke a photo of the pineapple and says, what is this shows him the bowl of pineapple? And he says, I don't know, it looks like cereal or something. And he says, well, what could that be? And then Burke goes, oh, like he knows not to say what it is. Yes, that's weird. But it's like a, you know, a little kid thinking he's out smarting someone. Yeah. And there's this you're watching from this camera overhead. He also isn't a very weird physical position in that chair. He's very weird physically. He's very antsy in a

weird way. Yeah, but he gets down on all fours when he's looking at that picture. And I understand it's like a kid's way, like almost like child's pose. Yeah. But to me, in that situation, it gave me the creeps. Yeah, it was just weird. He was he wasn't he was very silted in his voice, but he looked incredibly comfortable. Yeah, it was almost like chill. He was chill. It was weird. How do we okay. So like my theory, in my mind, the mastermind of this whole fucking entire thing, which is that Burke unknowingly hit her over the head or through a flashlight through someone mentioned maybe he didn't actually like hit her. Maybe he threw this flashlight at her. Yeah. And this happened and it was staged in my mind. The mastermind of the whole thing is not Patsy who is bringing who is

just being thrown out of the bus fucking completely in this whole thing. It's someone who's still alive. And so I'm scared to it's John Ramsey. It's John Ramsey. I really think John Ramsey is the fucking entire mastermind because and another thing I was thinking too is that like their interviews post right after what happened are creepy and fucking weird. The CNN interview. Yeah, like all of their like them calling the press to give an interview and you had mentioned it before that that when someone asked to ask Patsy who's clearly on fucking Valium. Yes, she's on so many pills. Yeah, they asked her do you think it was an outside intruder and she's shaking her head no with her eyes closed and the minute John says yes, she starts to nod yes. Yeah, she goes into

this weird circle and then tries to like yeah, but she also does hurt. She's doing a lot of like long blinking. Yep. And it's almost like she just doesn't want to she just wants to disappear. Well, here's what I think. Okay, I definitely think Patsy wrote the note that the ransom letter. It's not a fucking no. No, it's a four page. I think Berg accidentally hit her. I think they conspired to cover it up maybe with with John being the mastermind. Right. I think he took her downstairs Jean Minez body downstairs to, you know, make it staged as a kidnapping. And I don't think Patsy realized the extent of how he covered it up. Right. I think she she thought he'd put a pillow over her face. She thought he she would be suffocated. But when Patsy found out the extent of what he

did to her body, I think then she and she still had to go with it. Yeah, I think that that's why she was so freaked out by it. I don't think she was like horrible. Do you know what I mean? Yes. And that's a horrible idea. Like just that you would be put in that position as a mother. Yeah. The one that gives me more comfort because it's so much less tragic. And it's based on that 911 dispatcher who suddenly was under a gag order for years and never talked to anyone. And no one ever tried to interview her. But here's the thing that's weird to me. No one ever tried to interview her and she wasn't under a gag order. So when was the gag order lifted that she can be talking on this documentary? I don't think it ever was. I think she was just

like, all right, clearly no one for it. I think once they exonerated the Ramses, the Ramses, it was just gone. Well, what was interesting to me is she said that that moment where Patsy thought she hung up the phone. I never knew about that either. That Patsy makes this 911 call, which I didn't listen. I of course heard snippets here and there, but I don't listen to it. It's horrifying. Well, and especially because it's it's bad acting. I from that alone, if you just made me guess off the 911 call, I'd say they're they're complicit in some way. But that that Patsy thinks she hangs the phone up and then they're recording what's happening in their kitchen. And the 911 operator is on the line listening and trying to listen. Okay. And the thing, well,

just the one thing that that 911 operator said was her tone, once she was like, so hysterical and get someone here, get someone here. Exactly. A, you don't hang up the phone. Right. When your child is missing and that's your lifeline, hanging up the phone is crazy. And then B, her vocal tone changes immediately to the point where that's what gave that 911 dispatcher the creeps. Because because she's hysterical. She's freaking out. She's not answering the 911 dispatcher's questions. The minute she says, who are you? She clearly says I'm she clearly states her name, everything. I'm the mother and clearly gives an answer. Yes. Suddenly the hysteria isn't so out of control. And it's true that I like this in the CBS

documentary where they said you don't hang up on a 911 call. No, no one does. No one hangs up. It's your lifeline. That was the coolest part. I mean, I understand. Look, this is just like Jack the Ripper where there's so many experts now and there's so many, so many theories that it's just out of control. I don't think it'll ever be solved. I don't know, unless there's something gets dug up, like literally or, you know, some hidden thing. I didn't, I don't hear what they, I didn't hear at the end of the 911 call to hang up what is purported to be said. By who? By anyone in the family. I believe the 911 operator when she says, I heard, I thought I heard Patsy say, I called, I called nine, I called the police now. Yeah. That sounds, that

sounds more believable to me than when they, when they did the whole gamut of slowing down the 911 call and slowing down people heard in the background and whose voice is whose. You hear what you want to hear. Yes. That's very true. And also that part was ludicrous because, well, it was just TV. I mean, that's the part where I was just sitting there going, oh, they're really trying to stretch this out. I bet you when they cut that other stuff and the other episodes, they had to go back and like fill time or something because that was so ludicrous. First of all, every sound editor in the world would watch that and just be like, these are the people I hate working with. Totally. You don't have to tell me that we need to go back and reduce the noise because clearly

that until you can hear what people are saying, we have to keep on trying to clarify the clip. Yeah. Like that idea that they were sitting next to that man going, bring this down and bring this up. Do this. Yeah. Yeah. The guy actually knows how to use the machine. And the moment someone tells you what they're hearing, you hear it too. Of course. Even if it's not there. And especially with something like this where it's like, you're hearing Patsy Ramsey's voice. You're hearing John Ramsey's voice. Yeah. But at the same time, what they're arguing by hearing Burke Ramsey's voice at the end of that is that he wasn't in bed and I have a lot of problems with the idea that he was in bed through the whole time. Because A, why when you just found out that your child is kidnapped

and gone, would you let your other child be somewhere else? He would grab the other child and make sure they're by your fucking side the whole time. That's the first thing you would do. The first thing you would do. Yes. Why didn't he get out of bed when he heard his mom flipping the fuck out to see what was going on and what was wrong? Well, what he said in those interviews is he's a real deep sleeper all the time. Always. Right. He's using words like I'm always I never hear anything. I'm always a deep sleeper. Okay. Prepped. Yeah. So that's why would they lie about that? Because they're lying because the whole thing is bullshit. And I mean, I agree. That kind of thing where like the 911 dispatcher heard things that even if she didn't hear exact words,

like she was talking about the vocal tone changed. So she knows that Patsy thought the phone was hung up and suddenly the like act was dropped. And that's what she was hearing. Maybe she got the words wrong or right. We don't know. But like that in and of itself. Also, when Burke goes, what did you find? Right. That little quote, which you can hear pretty clearly. But it's like, it's such a weird little voice. Like he's, you don't hear it. It doesn't sound scared. No, he doesn't sound upset. He sounds like someone that's going through that with not a lot of emotion. Okay. So what about, okay, why would let's say that they all had something to do with it? She wrote the 911, I mean, the ransom letter. Why would they call 911 immediately without

getting rid of the body in the morning? Like, why wouldn't they, why wouldn't he have taken the body out and and dispose of it? I mean, who the fuck knows? Because I think it's because it's still their daughter. So they're not going to leave their daughter at the garbage dump. They're not going to stick her in a dumpster or hide her under a log or some horrible paintbrush up her area. They didn't, I don't think they did that. If they didn't talk about that in the CVS thing, but I don't, why, why would he do that? But it was, but there, from what I can tell, problem with this case too, is that there's so many things I've heard about, for example, that there was a book turn, there was a dictionary in someone's study turned to the word incest.

The only place I've ever seen that is in, you know, forums of people writing about the case. I've never seen that in, in a actual, you know, crime scene right up. Yeah, that sounds like something a seventh grade girl would say. Yeah, there's so much shit. There was a book open on the death. You guys, there was so much shit. There's so much shit that I'm like, well, I heard this thing was what they found, but it's not in the autopsy report. So why would it? It's like weird gossip because people start talking about stuff like this. And suddenly it takes on a life of its own. But here's the thing I thought when they were going

over all those crime, the crime scene footage, who the fuck sees that their son killed their daughter with a, by hitting her on the head with a flashlight, takes that flashlight sticks it on the kitchen counter and leaves it there. That's the thing that you would dump and get rid of. And that's the thing that baffled. I kept saying, is this picture from earlier, where they just know for a fact they own this flashlight. But no, but here, but okay, well, I'm going to, I'm going to immediately argue the other way because I can and I like it. You're fucking freaking out. You had to start a ransom note twice three times because you're freaking out. You don't think to move

this one piece. I just don't think you think everything through and there's no blood on it as they showed by having this fucking most fucked up kid in the world hit a goddamn mannequin with pigskin and a wig. All of that was like, all of that, I say shame on you CVS because that was not necessary. It was super creepy. He looked like a little child actor, but his eyes were a bit wild. The whole thing of that was gross. Honestly, that whole time I felt so bad for the hosts because I was like, you can tell that the producer was like, you have to fucking do this. And both the hosts were like, I'm gross. I'm a fucking journalist. I'm a fucking like we're trying to find out actual answers. And you need this clip.

The lighter version of that is the cop that volunteered to get tased twice, which the kid had done it. A six foot cop who is 200 pounds is being tased to show what might have been like for Jean Benet, which is like, sorry, none of this equates. This is that and when they were in a parking lot and the hosts were going to go speak to the Ramses that couldn't be recorded. And there was a whole like five minutes of that of them waiting around in the parking lot for the host to come back and talk about unnecessary. The whole thing was unnecessary. It was they were, I think they were trying to be Verte, but it was also they're like, so we've got this insane interview that we've been waiting for, but the guy's like, not on camera, but I'll tell you

what I know. Yeah. You just can't record it. So they need to, they need the, the, um, what do you call it? Like they need the authenticity of the fact that they got this huge get of an interview. Like this is legitimate because we're actually speaking to them. It also shows to me as a person that's worked in TV for a long time, the run and gun style where you have to make up solutions on, on the fly. And if you were thinking it would be cool to work in TV, just go and look at Eddie Schmidt, the producer of the show standing in the Safeway parking lot, watching all the beautiful SUVs drive away while he stands there with the camera men for four and a half hours, probably waiting. Yeah. They, they ate a bunch of Safeway donuts and just kicked it,

waiting to find out what happened because that's what it's really like. And you know what, okay, here's a fucking thing. Maybe they did talk to the fucking whites on camera and the whites said the same thing they always say, very fucking, you know, bullet pointed and it wasn't as interesting. And so they said, let's pretend like they wouldn't speak to us. Yes. Is that a thing? Well, yeah, because the thing that I was shocked by another piece of information was that Fleet White wrote an open letter telling John Ramsey, you need to cooperate with the police. Totally. That's crazy. They were, the whites came over the morning of the murder. Yeah. They were the first group of people there. After the phoning, I don't want to call. And Fleet White was with John Ramsey when

he found Jon Benet's body. I wonder if those two people feel used as fuck. Well, they were. Yeah. They were. Because that's another thing they talked about is that's a very common thing. Invite someone in. Right. To witness you finding the body. You don't find the body alone if you've done it. Yes. You bring people in to witness. Yeah. That was fucking fascinating. Yes. It's there's a lot of like, if you choose to look at it through this one angle, which I think we should do the opposite in a minute too. I think we should look at it from an intruder angle. But in that way, a man who has two planes, first of all, a sidebar for people, for millionaires, a millionaire's house is kind of a shitty house. Like there was, it was clearly pre the declutter

trend of the mid 2000s, because there was so much shit everywhere. And it was like, there was like fake autumn leaves that were plastic in a drawer that was hanging down from the top of a like shelving system. It was like, sorry, you're rich. What is this house? And when they went to like open Jon Benet's bedroom door, there were all those hand marks on the outside. Did you see that like finger marks or like kids grabbing the door? It just was like, it was weird to me. And this whole time when they say her body was found in the wine cellar. Yeah. I'm picturing a wine cellar. No, that was the most depressing creepy room I've ever seen in my life. It was a cement room where they threw old shit and maybe kept some wine. I don't know.

But like it, the whole thing was, there was a lot of cognitive dissonance. Can I tell you, when they were doing the like walkthrough of it, I watched a shit ton of HGTV. And the whole time I was like, well, you take down this wall and you'd open the basement up. So it could be like a man cave and it'd have an open concept thing. And the spiral staircase is so dated and unnecessary. Like the whole time I was like thinking of the property brothers being like, you take this fucking wall down. The spiral staircase, it looks like something that would be in my hometown in a house that was left over from 1965. Like it is so weird and tacky. And like, if you've ever gone down one of those metals spiral staircases in a house, it feels like you're

going to die the whole time. You're going to fall fucking face forward into the other, the bar that's on the next spiral. So weird. That whole part. But I guess my point actually was super rich people like that that are kind of, they're the people, they don't even fly first class. They don't fly commercial at all. Oh wait, they get their own fucking planes. They have private planes. They're private plane rich. These are people who think they can get away with whatever because they already are up above the fray. They're not anywhere near Judy and Johnny lunch. How crazy is it that she was 21 years old when they got married? Yeah. And he'd already had a whole family. He was what then, I think he was like 16 years older than her. That means he was

like in his mid late 30s. Yeah. 21 year old girl that he marries. Yeah. I mean, we've all met 21 year olds. They're fucking idiots. Yeah. Even that seems uncommon these days. Like 21 is a bit of a throwback. So he marries this trophy wife. They have a trophy daughter. Man. And that their place son. All right. They're also ugly. I liked that it was told that 76% of the ransom note was bullshit. Arroneous. Yeah. Too much. All you needed was these four lines. They're selling. They kept saying the phrase they're selling. They're selling it. Yeah. That there wasn't, there didn't need to be blood from the blow to the head, even though they showed it in the worst way possible. That was interesting. Also, so you get, you see this ransom note letter. It says, don't call the fucking cops

or we'll behead your daughter multiple times. Yes. The first thing they do is call the cops. Yes. Why is that? Even if because they wrote the letter and they know it's not actually going to help. Even if the letter wasn't even if they didn't do it and the letter was found, they still made so many mistakes and it was still a fake ransom note. No matter, that's what's so hard about it. It's no matter what it was a fake ransom note. Yes. That's a hundred percent true. So it's hard to be like, who wrote this ransom note? You can't be like, but it was a fake ransom note. So the parents didn't know the, the ransom note was fake no matter what. Yes. There's no small foreign faction. No. Kidnapping. And the kid was already dead. Yes. In the basement. Right. So it's like,

and you clearly didn't bring this. If the ransom note had been brought in and then she was found dead, it would have been like, oh, they meant to kidnap her, but it didn't, it didn't happen. Right. Also, the point they made very early and that is like to me, the proof of almost everything is you don't kidnap a six year old girl out of a millionaire's house and ask for a hundred thousand dollars. That's the dumbest fucking part of it where it's like, you have a living child. It's millions. You ask for millions and you know this person's a millionaire. They talk about him. They talk about him as if they know him so personally. Well, they say a couple of things in it. They say that, that get it out of your account. So they know that that's how much that he has at least

that in his account. Yeah. Not get the fucking money no matter what you can do. Yeah. The other thing is get a big enough quote attache case who gives a shit what size bag, you know, get a brown paper bag. You don't need to tell this person that get this much money. Period. Yes. Well, that's, yeah, that's clearly someone just having thinking way too hard about this and and also believing their own shit. Like that's that thing where instead of having the self-consciousness to go, is this believable or whatever, it was just like sit down and have creative writing session. Yeah. Yeah. And saying get some rest. You're going to, this is going to be complicated. It's like she, okay, let's just say it was Patsy writing this thing. She sat down. She started out,

but he might have been dictating. He could have been dictating. It was her handwriting. She was a journalist major too. So she knows how to write. Yes. Go on. Sorry. No, no, no. But it is just that idea of like you get started, you're already got the adrenaline running some insane shit. You're in a surreal place anyway. Then you just start kind of going for it where it's your quoting speed. Yeah. You're like, here's what the girl does. Here's what people who have seen too many movies about it think that a ransom letter is written. What about just can we skip to the part where they interviewed the gardener and he talked about Patsy Ramsey coming out to talk about the OJ verdict. That part, I was like, I don't care what else happens in this thing. The idea that there's

a first person, eyewitness talking about Patsy Ramsey's reaction to OJ. Which is that you can get away with murder in America. Yes. But there was also just, it was that, but then it was also just the general kind of mashup of like this is like pop culture gone mad on my TV right now. But it's interesting how much the OJ, the Simpsons had to do with this murder, like how much they were affected by each other. And you know, I was reading some of the movie quotes and how similar they were. And there were also people online who are fucking brilliant, interesting people who say, here's when this movie showed in Boulder, like near the date of her murder, like the night before one of the, one of the movies was played on TV. Oh my God.

You know, November 29th, this movie was played on TV in Boulder. Brilliant. It's really fucking interesting. See, that's the shit. Like that really is, it's the wave of the future. It's people, armchair detectives, who are going to solve the big stuff. Totally. Because that's the kind of stuff that, you know, like if cops and all those cops that talk like that one investigator that that quit because he was like, this is disgusting. Love seeing him young and then seeing him interview. He was hot stuff. Super fucking hot. He was hot. And also just his like burning sense of justice. Yes. Delicious. Oh my God. And he was just like, I want him to win. Yeah. And it's that thing of like, well, he, he quit. So, so then nothing goes forward. But then it's like, yeah, but or he

stays and goes insane or takes the fall or it's just or hates himself for the rest of his life. Because he didn't do the right. He didn't do anything. Right. Quitting sometimes is like the only way you can show how passionate you are about something. Right. It's a state. It's a real political statement. And if he was told this has become a political situation, then he has to be political too. You, you just have to play on the, on the playing field. Well, the, them saying that everyone in died, everyone voted to indict the Ramses. Yes. For having some hand in the company dying and the fucking police chief. Just being like, no, thanks. Giving a news conference that they're not doing it. Now, one of the very first last podcast on

the left episodes I listened to on your recommendation was their John Benet Ramsey. Is it two part they last podcast unless has a two part John Benet Ramsey episode. That is fucking incredible. So thoroughly researched. It's so awesome. But one of the to me most fascinating parts was them talking about how John Ramsey is a millionaire because he's got this computer programming company or some computer something company, but that they don't really know what it does. It has a government contract, I believe they said. And it, he makes millions of dollars a year, but they can't really figure out what he does. We got to ask Mr. Robot. That's all right. He's coming back. The robot got to shut him down. And then we got to go to

Rahm Emanuel and be like, what the fuck are you doing later? This happens. And are you doing later? But I just thought that was it. I love that theory because I love there. There is some bigger thing at work that's keeping the district attorney of Boulder underneath John Ramsey's thumb. Why does he have that much power aside from just money? There's got Boulder. Well, since I mean, this is so dumb, but since watching Mr. Robot hacking emails seems like a very easy thing to do. Yes. Hacking fucking internet searches. You have some shit on someone and Oh, so you think he did that to them and just was baby? Maybe they have some shit on the fucking chief of police. You know, sure emails. I mean, let's go to the fucking obvious child pornography.

Right. Anything. Yeah. And he knows about it before even the police would know. Sure. That's fascinating. I like to how they jump straight to Patti is an MK ultra robot. Yeah. I just that while I wrote, I let's go back to my L article. I fucking I wrote in it that how beautiful would it be if it was MK ultra or if it was God damn it, Steven. Steven. The moment I said MK ultra, Steven's phone started barking and it's like the MK ultra government's trying to shut us down. Yeah. We're talking about it. Steven, you're fired. Steven. No, you're not. Steven, you're rehired at a higher rate. Elvis, you're in. Yeah. I would love it if it were that simple. That and interesting and interesting and not awful. But the reality is like parents kill

their children more than strangers kill their children or kill people's children. Yes. It's always from the family. That's it. That's the first place they look for a reason. It's usually an inside job and it's also the darkest choice. So it's the biggest bummer that most people don't want to look at at all. I know. I know. Because that's anybody. It's horrible. Yeah. I think, I mean, it's hard to find them actually. I was looking for them today, but the initial press interviews with John Ramsey, which you can see in the CBS stock, are cold and creepy. Yeah. He's a real creeper. I don't think that that necessarily, like as people have said about many people in this series, like, I think we're just learning now how people grieve, what they look

like when they're under pressure and all this stuff. And you know, I agree with that all completely, but this is fucking goodbye. Let's move on. Yes. It's very, it's so telling. Once you relook at it and like under, aside from thinking exactly who did it or exactly what the situation was, I just know that like my father, like if you're talking about someone who just died, baby, you, you, even if you're a man and a strong man and you were in a war or you whatever, yeah, your, your child, you would get choked up. You just, that's your, the words are coming out of your mouth and you're listening to them. If you have a total disconnect, then you're, then you give a great press conference. Can I say, let me, let's impart a personal part of this,

because people fucking love that. But when I was like 13 and on drugs and like a really bad kid and one night I just didn't come home and my sister had dropped me off somewhere and I just went out with my fucking punk rock friends and my parents called the police and were freaking out and my brother later said to me, like the next, when I finally came home and I just been on drugs all night was like, and either with my dad, he said, I heard dad in the other room weeping, weeping and my dad's not like that. And I fucking, that was one of the things that made me stop doing drugs. So the thought of my dad weeping at me just not being home. So the fact that he's just, I mean, I know we all react differently, but the reaction, his fucking

demeanor is cold. It's incredibly cold. He doesn't put his arm around his wife who's crying. No, there's a real like, he has a real B of A bank manager feel to him where he's letting you know your house is getting foreclosed on. And I don't have, I have shut myself off from other people's emotions for so long that I just don't care. Well, and also like he's in business mode where this is an emergency, all the like emergency cord got pulled and now that's the mode he's in and he's completely like compartmentalized all of everything. The emergency garage got pulled. Oh dude, that thing is such a bummer. I think he was in the Navy. Is that true? He worked for a small foreign faction in the Philippines. Is that true? And their SBTC has something to do

with a Navy. It's absolutely. Victory is signing things. Oh, I wrote a thing. Is signing things victory with an exclamation point from the Navy because that's so stupid. Here's okay. Although I am changing my email signature. Do you dare me? Am I do it right? Oh my God. Do it. Okay. So I read victory. I read a bunch of shit of like, I read a bunch of mostly the comments on people's blog posts about what it was. We're fucking more interesting than the blog post. Yes. One of them was it was on web sleuths. Someone said on your phone keypad, the number corresponds with three or four letters. Look for SBTC. The numbers are 7282. 7282 corresponds with P-A-T-C. Pat C. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that good Southern common sense of yours. It's up to you now, John.

Victory for P-A-T-C. I know. But what is that victory for P-A-T-C? P-A-T-C. So maybe P-A-T-C. I mean, I know it's her, but I'm how I don't know. It's so it's one of those. Yeah. Isn't that interesting? Yes, it is. There's nothing to do with it. Well, also, that's a really good. That's a really good way to make up a code. Let's do it right now. I mean, pick one. What's your name on here? Hard kill. Hard kill. Hard kill. All right. Here, let me write some up. I wrote like a bunch of fucking thoughts. Why sign a ransom note to begin with? Right. Nobody signs a ransom note. No one expects you to put your name on there. No. Did you know there were also and we should do a quick like, let's do the side of it was an intruder because there's

a lot of them. Okay, let's do it. There were 38 registered sex offenders living within two miles of the house in Boulder. Yes. That's a lot. That's a lot. And in Boulder, small. John Benet had been to the pediatrician for the last three years of her life, 27 times. That's a lot. That's too many. That's too many. Wait, was was Patsy some kind of weird? She might have had Munchaus as my proxy. For sure. Yeah. That's what that says to me. Okay. If Patsy had nothing to do with any of it and John did, it makes sense that she's the one to like who, if someone makes the panic 911 call, the other person is telling them not to read the note. It says not to call. Yes. So one way or the other, you know what I mean? Like she's being manipulated. Right. Yeah. I think

Patsy was manipulated this whole time. Maybe she knew some things and so she couldn't tell the truth. Yes. I think that's what it looked like in that CNN interview where she's got pale eyes and she's going, I love my daughter with her eyes closed. Yeah. I think that she maybe knew some of it and agreed to it and didn't realize the extent of her husband's fucking awfulness. But also that idea that she would be telling, she said, if we live in Boulder, which she said the phrase, if we live in Boulder, which I wrote down, don't they live in Boulder? I would tell everyone in Boulder, if we live in Boulder and she says, I tell my friends. So it's this like weird thing of like, who are you telling? Yes. And she's saying there's a killer out there, hold your

babies tight. But the idea that that's a given. Yeah. Like you don't have to underline that if you're this morning mother who is that she didn't because she was very protective of her children. Yeah. Oh, you said in your L article, you said the thing about we have to stop using the word panties. Oh, can we not? It's so true. But you know what I thought of is Henry Lee, Dr. Henry Lee has such a thick accent. Yeah. I bet you the word underwear was hard for him to say in much in the same way that I would not be able to say anything in any dialect of Chinese. And I would have to keep it pretty like clear and basic. That's what I thought of is like, I bet panties is easier to hear than any kind of ear or ear. I do feel bad for I felt about that whole time that he needed

that he that they thought he needed to be subtitled. He did need to be. Yes, 100%. I never knew what he was saying. Okay. Because I was I was doing stuff around the kitchen, and then I have to turn it. Oh, I always feel bad for people who get subtitled. You don't really need to. I think it's it's like a it's like negging them. It is it feels. Well, that's very American. I think that's like it feels like on the surface shameful. But the first thing I thought of was if I were in China, I wouldn't be subtitled. I wouldn't be appearing because I cannot speak. Right. And I can I have a little bit of high school French. Yeah, but only about five minutes. Yeah, then instead of trying to speak in French, you would be like, can you just fucking subtitle my English

man? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm just gonna talk and then you subtitle all of it because yeah. And I mean, that guy also on top of that, I was like, I was gonna say that thing about the panties and then I'm like, wait, is that racist? Is that problematic or whatever? And then I'm like, this man is such a famous and prolific and legendary forensic pathologist. If you don't watch true crime, shit, you wouldn't know that Dr. Lee Henry Lee is someone that we all fucking admire. He's everyone the minute he's in on it, you're like, Oh, this is legit. And also he has a building they went to his building with his name on the front of it to talk about that some of that DNA stuff. So like, there's no no sweat off Henry Lee is back in any way. Absolutely not. Yeah. And he's not gonna,

he's also not going to bullshit. He's not gonna be paid to do a show with his opinion. No, because they need a certain opinion. He's not gonna lie. No, I feel like all of those scientists really were there because this thing is fucked and we need to look at it and at least just organize the paperwork. I agree. At the very least, I agree. The show is great. I wish we could see the last unerred portion of it. I want to know what they cut out. Yeah, I think they fucked everyone over by not showing that. But I wonder if it was stuff that the Burke Ramsey lawyers were like, go ahead and air it will own CBS in a year. What I was thinking is that the four bias document docu series before it covered so much of it already that they didn't were like,

you know what, we don't need to add this. Maybe except for, well, I have to see the other ones to know. But I don't know. I mean, because their whole thing was like, we're going to discover all this stuff. Werner Spitz. Oh, God, I love him. He has a straight up Peaky Blinders haircut. If you watch Peaky Blinders, that's the same hair. The second I saw him, I was like, oh my God, love him, picture him and Henry Lee put in a house together and they just there's when people stop being polite and start being real. Like that is my dream. And then like there's just like, they just get like every morning they wake up and it's instead of Tyra Mail, it's like a fucking corpse and they have to figure out what happened to it. Tyra Mail,

it's a corpse. Oh my God, how great would that be? I mean, we should just start our own network. I feel like because also Werner Spitz guesting on Peaky Blinders. Oh, gorgeous. He could be the German Irish guy that comes in and just point some stuff out. Listen, Emmys next year, we're there. We're winning all of that. We'll go down to the shrine and stand around near that burger. Sure. I'll get a fucking run through runway dress. Yeah, the whole thing actually made me it made me think of like all of those other cases where people the more people talk about it, the more people hear bullshit, the more like, you know, like that we talked about the John Mark Carr theory where he had confessed to being her killer

while he was in Malaysia somewhere to get out to get out of being in jail because he is child molester who had gotten arrested for I think child sex tourism and and knew that if he went to jail there, he would just die in a pit somewhere. And so he confessed to killing John Bene and then was extradited really interesting. And when he was extradited and everyone was talking about it, my sister gets a phone call from our childhood friend. I didn't tell you this. You did, but I don't remember it because I have no memory. And she goes, oh my God, see that guy on the news right now. That's the guy from my church group I've been complaining about. And apparently John Mark Carr lived in Petaluma and was in my sister's friend's church group

and was the guy that everyone's like, I want to cancel church group next week. I feel so weird. Like he was creeping people out and super weird, super like super just bad vibes, suspicious. And then I mean, how like satisfying would that be? And then you see him like basically confessing to the murder of John Bene Ramsey. And then I see him like, you know, when there's like the clips or the trailers to a John Bene fucking, you know, docu-series and I see him, I'm like, oh, this isn't legit. No, I don't want to hear about him. No, no, no, he has nothing to do with it aside from sensationalism. He should just get a big red herring costume because that's all he is. Should we? All right, I'm going to read a couple things. Felicia said she did some digging last

night and feel super confident about the Burke theory. She learned some things she hadn't before. Okay, this is interesting. There was a 14 year old girl that was sexually molested by an intruder about nine months after Jean Bene was murdered very close to the Ramsey home. Quote Amy was sexually assaulted in her bed by an intruder that they believe was lying in wait for four to six hours before the attack. While they were all asleep, he was never caught and the Boulder police disregarded the mother's suggestion that he could have been the killer of Jean Bene. Amy and Jean Bene Ramsey attended the same dance studio. There are a lot of... Okay, so the fact that they had a walkthrough of their Christmas decorated

house, the Ramseys, what was it a couple days before the murder? Well, it was like a public walkthrough. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. You know, like when you do like a haunted house for Halloween. So anyone could have been in there. And the theory is that while the Ramseys were at a Christmas party that night, someone fucking came in broken, knew someone who had a key, got in and hid and waited. Yeah, totally possible. And then they're like, depending on what side you want to argue, either the window in the basement had no leaves where someone scooted in or had an undisturbed spider web. Yeah. Where that would have been disturbed if someone had scooted in. Like everyone who has a fucking definitive answer about this needs to stop it

because there's not one. No, and that's, that's the crazy, the cobweb one watching them on that one show. Yeah. Going in and out where I was just like, yeah, but then there's the one time where you don't touch it at all. And because you're really skinny because you're on math or this or that like, or you're careful. One billion. Yes, exactly. The thing that I was thought was very suspicious was they, the first of all, they're these millionaires, they have two planes, but they have a broken window pane in their basement and they don't fix it. Like I'm the most irresponsible person in the world. And when I broke my kitchen window, I fixed it within three days. Yeah, because it's your house. Yeah. And it's an open window. Like it's unsafe. It's glass. And then

there was some, somewhere in that where they, John Ramsey said that they left it like that because he locked, locked himself out a lot. Right. Which is insanity. The fact that he had admitted to that being his fault, I thought was very weird. It was super weird because to me it's like, oh, are you trying to justify if there's some latent print somewhere? Because it doesn't get a height of key. There's one million things, especially some millionaires, big rock. Do man. Yeah. Buy a second fucking house. Like there's all these things you could do instead of breaking a window and leaving it that way. I thought it was really like there's some things that to me were like, well, if you want to argue this thing this way, you say this,

if you want to argue with you, like there's things like like the taser marks. If you want it to be an intruder, it's taser marks. If you don't want it to be an intruder, it's train track, it's Burke's toy train track marks. Yes. Every piece of evidence can be argued either way. You fucking want it to be argued. I did think it was interesting when they argued the taser that tasers don't put you to sleep. They actually like get your adrenaline going and like zap you or make you scream much awake. Yeah. That's an interesting thing. I think, and I think that that could point to shoddy, the super shoddy police work of that these weird assumptions where it's like they were they were actually measuring it and being like, yeah, this

doesn't even fit a taser shape. It doesn't. I think the thing for me, all right, let's let's do our big conclusion. Great. I think because I'm so tired. I'm so tired too. Let's do the thing between between I think the ransom letter and the 911 call and what happened between when the cops came and her body was found put down and then I think those all over the house by neighbors and friends and picked up DNA all over the carpet. And I think those things are the most telling thing more than anything else in the pineapple. But also, and I think those things all point to it. Inside John. And it makes more sense to me that one of the three people aside from Jambane in that house that night had something to do with it more than a stranger or someone

else outside of it. Yeah, it just makes more sense. It does. I mean, the thing that's maddening, I guess, is that could be a little bit of everything. Yeah, it could be an intruder who opened that window and got saw the suitcase in the room and put it there because he was like, I'm going to go get that little girl and take her out. There's all these things that it could be a little piece of each. But yes, I agree and believe that the the ransom note is a lie. And it's a fabrication. And the 911 calls bullshit. I don't I don't buy her level. It's acting. And it's not good acting. And then the fact that that mag light flashlight fits the whole Jambane's head perfectly is devastating, like proof that or at least

devastating proofs too much. But it's that thing of like, then you I just it suddenly made sense of like, she did yet another irritating thing to him. And he grabbed something nearby threw it at her or like ran behind her and cracked her with not knowing. Yeah, you don't have to be like, you know, crazy, the good son, evil child to make a terrible mistake. To me, Patsy and Burke are Patsy's and John's ego. Yeah, ego. Well, he's going to take care of business. Like, yeah, the worst case scenario thing happened. Yeah. And yeah, he's going to fix it. And did you know that so out of all the they did, I really like the when they take apart the ransom note and look letter by letter of matches. So oh, God, where to go?

So all these people were get my notes from under my cat. Yeah. Oh, God, where to go? Well, 100 people. They're they're writing their handwriting was compared to the ransom note. Everyone was cleared and everyone keeps saying like, well, Patsy Ramsey was inconclusive out of the 100 people. Hers was the only one that wasn't cleared. Yeah, that was quote inconclusive. Yeah. She also wrote out the words $118,000 instead of the numbers. Yeah. Yes. Nobody fucking does no one does when asked to rewrite the ransom note. She did that. But I also I just I have so much sympathy for her. Well, yeah, the the idea that she would she would know that her child was murdered

and then have to be a part of the cover up have to be the voice of the cover up the grieving mother and so then balance those feelings of you actually really did lose your child. But now on in the in the name, just say if it's the book in the name of your other child, you have to continue on and do this thing. Yeah. That's a sickening proposition, especially when you're someone who appearances mean so much to you and I don't give a fuck. I'm sitting fucking spread eagle right now with shorts and I don't give a shit. My roots need to be died so bad that strangers laugh at me on the street. And yeah, to be wrapped up in that world, that trapping of of it is its own pageantry.

It's an adult version of that of look at my home. Now, there are balls of shit in my daughter's bed that my son put there. But please look at my Christmas tree and you're still winning. You're still going to win the crown if you're the fucking best at it. That's right. It's just different insanity. Also, there was that one quote where a little girl and it's the the woman that was interviewed. I call her the wine friend that said I was exact. I was, you know, turned out cast out from friendship where I was like, yeah, because you talk to fucking reporters and you clearly just like ran blabbing the second you could. Totally. But she said that her daughter had gone up to Jambani's room with her one time and was looking at all the trophies

and said, what are these? And she said, I just won those. But they're really my moms. Yeah. Thinking first of all, I don't buy that that actually happened. That sounds like some I don't like an anecdote. Someone would write on Twitter about their brilliant child. Because it's such an old soul kind of thing, knowing that's like her commenting on her, the reality of her own life in a way as if she's not a part of it to say, yes, my mother's very wrapped up in my career. Talk about this on CPS when I'm dead. Yeah, it doesn't make sense for a six year old. Maybe if she was eight or I mean, who knows? Everyone wants to make their kids seem like an old soul, but really they're just like,

they scream. They're super fucking new. They're new souls to everybody else in the restaurant when your child's screaming. So shut it. Oh, no. Is it was that enough Jambani talk for everybody? I think it was a lot. I think I'm done talking about this anymore. Yeah. Unless there's new information. Yeah. I would be interested in new information, but I feel like we've we've just hit a peak. True Zenith of Jambani reporting and and also just that it's this thing of everybody going true crime so hot right now, true crime or whatever, where it's just like, yeah, but we don't need to keep talking about the same thing over and over. The amount of research I've done on this person that I this case that I'm really

really, very interested in and I feel a lot of fucking sadness and pain for the victim. I feel like if I keep fucking searching it and getting into and talking about it, I'm just I'm not I'm desecrating her fucking memory and I just I can't keep looking at fucking autopsy photos. No, it's also it's not good for your brain. No, like it's not. It's you're not related. You don't work on it. You don't put yourself through it. But I saw a picture on Twitter moments this morning because there was nothing I was I was up at like six and there was nothing going on Twitter. So I went I made the grave mistake of touching the moments button and seeing what the story was there. And it said something

about Jambani. But the picture was one where I was like, is this Angelina Jolie like her mouth is open and her head is tipped back. And she's got all kinds of fucking makeup on and her hair's brushed away from her head. So you can see like her tall forehead and she truly looks like she's 20 and it is such a sexual picture. And that's the picture. Twitter moments chose to use as Jambani headline picture, not the cute one where she's got the little bangs and a little hat and she just looks like she's on vacation. It was like she might as well been like grabbing her own neck. It was such a sexual like perfume commercial. Let's stop doing this. Let's stop it. It's gross to her. I mean, it's not going to stop though, because it's it's there's it's so fucking

salacious and it's so mysterious. She is a sweet. She we're going to file her away as a sweet baby angle. And she will be in your your in mind and my favorite murderers hearts. And we feel awful and wish it would be solved, but it's not. It's just not. There's not even if it gets solved, people are going to say it's a fucking conspiracy. Right. Yeah. Keep your babies close. Yes. And keep your foreign factions even closer to the punk rock band and stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Elvis want a cookie cookie. Good boy.