My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 36 - Live from LA Podcast Festival

Episode Date: September 30, 2016

This week, it's the first ever live My Favorite Murder broadcast from the LA Podcast Festival. Karen, Georgia and comedian/The Dollop co-host Dave Anthony talk about the Trailside Killer, the Wineville Chicken Coop Murders and Australian murderer Mark Erinn Rust.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Glamorous. Classy. Professional. Hi. Welcome to My Favorite Murder Live, everybody. We had them re-create my apartment on stage. Those blue curtains are gorgeous. Oh, my God.

Can we talk about this? Yes. Can we, please? Fuck. Karen, tell me everything. Well, last week when we were talking about how we are going to come and do a live podcast, and we were talking about all the things we needed to do and bring and have to re-create the same environment that we have in Georgia's hot, hot apartment when we record every week.

And Georgia made a joke and said, I guess I'll buy a cage to bring Elvis. And I said, or you could just have him stuffed. And her heart broke in front of me. And now I'm that friend. So I've been trying to think for like six days or anything like, you got to make good on that piece of bullshit. And then I remembered that I'm a compulsive vintage thrift store shopper. And I got shit like this laying around by the dozens.

And I was like, excuse me, don't you have a some sixth grade teacher hand knit a Siamese cat. And it's just been sitting in a closet for like fucking seven years. And the answer was yes, Elvis is here. When I saw that backstage, I was like, I'm not supposed to see that. And if I look at it, I'm going to cry so I didn't because it's so sweet. And so I didn't look at it. What happened?

Okay. Um, there we go. Have you gotten a good look at it because there's truly about four years of dust right on the top. You guys can see that a lot. Karen, thank you so much. And I would have dusted it off, but I was running late. And if you know my apartment, you don't know my apartment.

This is the most perfect thing for my apartment. It's going to match everything. It's like a grandma and there's like seafoam happening. It's a seafoam apartment. Everything. It makes me so. Thank you so much, Karen. You're welcome.

I got you up. Nothing. I'm going to catch a moonbeam in my pocket, save it for our first live show. Look at it. Thank you. You guys. I'm nervous. I'm nervous.

Are you nervous? I'm nervous. Let's talk. Yes. Let's talk it through. Okay. What do you think it could happen that's nerve-wracking and already happened off that? What?

No, nothing. Dusty cat picture. No, nothing. Nothing. Everything is good. This is great. But what's it? We're just working through the worst fears.

I mean, it's like a boyfriend right there where you can't stop making eye contact. Well, that's his fault. Not yours. Good one. Yeah. What's yours? Mine is saying something so stupid and then like silence. You know what I mean?

Everyone laugh at that. Please. Thank you. Wow, Jeb Bush. That can't have felt good. Everybody laugh at that. Because when we're doing it in my apartment, it's like we're just talking to each other. I know.

I'm going to pretend we're talking to each other. Good plan. Okay. Because you still have to talk to me. I insist. Okay. Yeah, we're very excited. It's obviously we can't do our normal house cleaning.

I mean, housekeeping. Oops. I messed up my line already. Housekeeping. Housekeeping. Housekeeping. Do you have any? I don't.

Oh, yes. I have one, but it's like heartfelt and touching housekeeping. Go, go, go. I love it. It has nothing to do with me not knowing the capital of Norway or whatever the fuck ignorance is exposed on this goddamn podcast every week. I used to think I was super smart. You should have seen me in the nineties fucking playing Jeopardy at home and shit.

Now, now I'm like a shell of a woman. So Dustin, the head of Feral Audio, forwarded this email to us the other day, also brought us fucking flowers. And he brought us double roses. Yeah, that's right. That's not exactly how you do it. Who's that character? So this is the email he sent, and it says, some of you will recognize this if you've

listened to the podcast recently, hi Karen and Georgia, oh my God, just heard your podcast about me. You two made me cry and feel so honored while my attack was horrible hearing you two reminded me that my story might help other women. Thank you for this gift tonight. It's been 21 years. I'm raising my son and daughter trying to prepare them for a crazy world. My attack is now part of my DNA, just who I am, but you honored me by reminding me, even

me that stories of survival remind us all of the gift of life and challenge of our survival. Call me. And she gave us her phone number. It's Jennifer Mori. The chick who? Yeah. The woman who got attacked by the security guard story. Who held her open neck, open, closed with a towel?

She doesn't hate us. She wants us to call her. She is super into it. What the fuck? We're going to fucking call her. Dude. We can't do it now. That'd be an invasion of privacy.

Let's do it. Jennifer, we're all here. Hey. Hey. Jennifer, what color towel held your neck together? That's bananas because like, I feel like we're both always afraid that we're like, you know, we don't want to make any victims feel that we're just like exploiting them. Right.

And there's so many potholes to fall into. Sure. And this is just like, I know you were really happy to get this like, nice fucking email from someone that we talked like, it's bananas. Well, also I'm so obsessed with the show I survived that Jennifer, right? That too. That Jennifer, but Jennifer Mori is like one of my real housewives. Only she did something way fucking cooler.

Fucking cooler. Like she's a badass. Yeah. Also probably a housewife. So yeah, serves to be a housewife at this point, take your fucking day off, man. That's the cool thing is she's an attorney and she's a victim's rights advocate. So she's going for it. We have no excuse.

We have to leave this podcast festival right now and help someone. Let's go. All of us. We just make everyone leave the fuck and become victims rights advocates tonight. Children tonight. Tonight. There's a van outside not signing everyone up and we'll know if you don't do it. What else?

Oh, well, I don't want to do it. We have shirts. Just do it. It's fine. We have shirts. There's new shirts. It's fine. They're pretty good.

Have you seen them? They're fucking pretty fucking cool. They're really. We're really. True crime obsessed director and like creator and artist design them for us and they look like they look like book covers from the sixties of like Valley of the Dolls. Yeah. It doesn't.

Anyways, let's move on. Are you going to bail out of every time? Yeah. No. Just that one. And there was a murder. Anyway, keep moving. Just keep talking.

It's fine. All right. I feel like there was another thing that we were supposed to mention. You guys, you're used to this already. Except Steven edits this part out. Yeah, that's right. This is all going to get pulled. From the podcast.

Drink it in. All right. I guess we just bring out our guest. Let's just do it. No, let's just do it. We only have 90 minutes. It's fucking. So after we interview each and every one of you, I think then we're going to.

Go to the cards. Well, our guest tonight, excitingly enough is one of the hosts of the dollop. And here's my first comedy boyfriend. So please welcome the stage. Dave Anthony. Hey. That's awesome. Hi.

You guys are at a table and I'm over here. Let's scoot it on over. Charlie Rose this thing. How is that? By the way, I had a friend in New York who had the sciatica thing. How did she cure it? Oh, she didn't make it. That's awful.

I probably shouldn't have brought that up. You know what? I don't remember how she. But you probably get a lot of suggestions. I'm getting so many, but very nice ones. Thank you, everyone. That's good. I remember her going through it.

It was terrible. It sucks. What are you going to do? I had a little back thing. You know, some people have war in their country. So it's hard to complain about. Yeah. You know what?

Don't complain about your own pain. People have a war. Yeah. That's actually in America's next top model quote that I just love. I'm not kidding. There was some girls. That's real? You know when they do the, like, the ghosties on the show.

They have to run around and find their own way. There's one girl who was, like, from fucking, like, Croatia. And they didn't make it to a ghostie. And the other girl who was, like, from fucking, you know, Utah, was, like, ah, I'm freaking out and crying. And the Croatian girl goes, some people have war in their country. That was, like, 10 years ago when I still say it, because it's so true.

Well, but that's a classic Croatian saying. I mean, they'll always have the one up, because they can always throw that in your face. It's like, I get it. That accent where you're like, oh, right. Well, some people bring war to your country. That's our country. Dave, will you please tell us about your favorite murder?

Oh, my God. David, this is our first guest favorite murder. Yeah, I know. I went back and I was like, well, they've had to have a guest on, and you guys had no guest on. No, we don't. Very first. We expressly do not.

Elvis and Steven are the only people we've had on the podcast. So my favorite murder, by the way, took a really great picture of us. And I just posted it. I think. Did we know? That's gross. It's me and Georgia.

Am I picking my nose? It's me and Georgia backstage. She is my favorite ghost. Georgina, who was think? That's Georgina. Who was think? Who was think? Spin off.

I turned off. I never called you a fucking asshole for that. So I grew up near Karen. I grew up just south of her in a place called Marin County. And in Marin County, we have a place called Mount Tamil Pius. Yeah. Just the one. Been there.

Some really fucking great things happen at Mount Tamil Pius. Oh, this says shark attacks. So let's bring up the actual one. Gotta go to my email. We didn't tell you. There's no notes. No, you guys have been reading Wikipedia. I've been listening.

It's not as fluid and as crazy as it used to be. Right. And then you get correction corner. Yeah. It's made us millions of dollars. I do a carefully crafted podcast, which makes us much less money than that. Okay. That sounds boring.

But it's... Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Some guy one time on Twitter, all of a sudden he comes out of nowhere and he goes, you get a stupid podcast. You just read Wikipedia.

You talk about it. And I was like, yeah, I mean, I don't know. That's your new tagline. That's what I'm doing. Yeah. It's fun. That's it. But then I got in trouble, so you don't do that anymore.

Okay. So I put a date on May 6, 1930. Yeah. I can't... That's called a crossover. I can't not do that. It's called a mashup. It's called the crossover.

It's called a mixtape. Okay. So David Carpenter, you obviously know I was doing this one, because who else would I do for Marin? Yeah. So he's born in San Francisco, raised by very strict and aggressive parents. Alcoholic father, beat him up, neglected him. His mother was very domineering and nearly blind.

Well... Yeah. So that's like... How to make a murderer. I mean... 101. I mean, how to not murder at three. Yeah.

Wait, blind and aggressive. What does that look like? What does it feel like? It's messy. There's a lot of punching of you and then like a wall. A lot of lamps broken in that house. Not a flower stayed in a vase through his whole childhood. Ah, get over here.

I'm punching things. So when he was seven, he was stuttering so badly. He had a difficult time in any social situation. See, what she just did, I just went backstage. That's why we don't do terrible, really, really terrible murders on the dog. Because neither I or Gareth would go, oh. Ever. And then it's a different show where you're like, fuck, are these guys doing it?

It's called the Humanity. Oh, look. Empathy helps. Try it? Empathy? Um... So he's stuttering horribly, then he was being ridiculed, which made him painfully reclusive.

And to get him over this, his parents forced him into extra curricular activities. Oh, I've been there. Such as piano and ballet. Oh, dude. That old, blind bitch. Fuck her, seriously. That is passive aggression. If not overt aggression.

She can't even see him doing ballet. I know. How does she enjoy that? Purely for the humiliation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Ollie, that did not help his crippling stutter. He then began to take out his frustrations on animals. And he became a bed wetter.

Ding dong. We've got two. We've got two so far. When does he hit his head in ballet class to give us the majestic trifecta of serial killing? Then when he became a teenager, he started molesting children. He was arrested for molesting his two cousins, three and eight. He served a year for that crime.

Good. Oh, as you do. You're going to enjoy the sentences in this one. And then he was released, he became even more of a predator, continued molesting until he met a woman, Ellen Heetle, who had no sense of anything and got married. She's like, you seem so fucking weird and your family is crazy. Let's get married. I want to lock this down.

He worked at different jobs. He was a ship's purser. My dad was a ship's purser. He is. What the fuck is that? I think you run around giving ladies purses. No. It's gopher from the love book.

You just carry bags and stuff. That's it. So you're like a bellboy on a ship. Right, exactly. Okay. It's a bellboy. Yeah. I wasn't sure what it was.

I just assumed someone here would know. Karen comes out. It's Karen. He was also a salesman and a printer. He had a very serious need for sex and was very demanding. He needed to have sex three times a night. He saved it all till the night time. He wouldn't sprinkle it throughout.

One morning, one afternoon. Like, come on, everyone. Come on. He needed a night. Okay. Night hours. He's a night fucker. Trying to read a book over here.

When you do what you do and I'll do what I do. Come on. So, I always find the buildup to people fascinating how they got there. In the dollop, it's always, and then their mother, father died when they were three. Every story. Yes. Everyone. And then I assume you guys get a lot of bedwetters.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Heading heads all the time. Mean dads, bedwetters. Oh, yeah. We snap dads. Jesus fucking christ. So, he had three children with her, and then he began prowling again.

In 1960, he became friends with a woman, Lois de André, no, de Andrade, and he invited her to meet his wife and started including her in their lives. Then one day, he took her to work, but instead of doing that, he drove her to a wooded area of the Presidio, which at that time was an army base, and pretended like he was lost. At some point, he grabbed her, straddled her, bound her with a clothesline, and using a knife, he threatened her and forced her to be still. He said he had, still, he said he had a funny quirk that needed to be satisfied. Real funny.

It's not ballet, right? It's not. It's not. And then he put on a tutu. This is terrible. She then tried to get away, and so he hit her several times with a hammer. Oh, fuck. Now, before and during the incident, he completely lost his stutter.

His speech was slow and deliberate and angry. Wow. Yeah. Thankfully, there was an MP on the base, and he was very suspicious watching the car. Watching a woman getting hit in the fucking hair. He's like, I don't, I don't like the light, look to that knife. I don't know. I would be too.

She does. She seems to be crying near the knife. So he hurt, and then he heard the cries for help, and he was near. So he came over, and Carpenter got out of the car and shot at him and missed, and then the MP shot back and hit Carpenter in the leg, and I think the back. Carpenter was arrested, but he said his excuse was that he blacked out during the whole attack, which is solid. Yeah, let him go.

Just solid excuse. Oops. I don't remember hitting her with a hammer. I think I was napping. He was given a 14-year sentence. Not enough. That's it. That's the story.

Yeah. Oh, well, thanks for being here today. And then for some reason, his wife divorced him. I don't know why. During his stay in prison, psychiatrists reported that Carpenter has a, quote, sociopathic personality disorder and an IQ of 125. That's too many IQs. That amount makes me nervous that many.

That's more than me, for sure. More than I. In 1969, he was freed after nine years. Being a catch, he remarried four months after getting out. Fuck. No, but look, he'd been doing push-ups, and he got that one tattoo, and he was like, I'm going to put a cigarette in the corner of my mouth and stuff. You think it sounds bad, but then if you see prison trim, like just a trim dude, you're

like, all right, well, the other stuff, the stutter, the killing of animals, the molestation, the beating of a woman with a hammer, like that's... The toe shoes. He looks good. He looks... You can look past it. You can look past it. You can get.

But in under a year, he returned to his ways, and the marriage was over. Then he hit a woman with... So there's a woman driving, and he hits her car, and then he pulls her out of it and starts ripping her clothes off in the middle of the road. I'm terrified of this. I think about this all the time. What? Yeah.

Like someone intentionally hitting your car so they can pull all your clothes off. Oh, I mean, but who doesn't? They... like, I was at State Farm Insurance the other day, and they brought that up. What a common accident situation. Yeah, they're like, have you... I know you've been in offender benders, but has anybody ripped your clothes off? And I was like, no, thankfully, not yet. There was a bender pulley off her, and...

What? Where are you? It's a... I'm going to describe that as a unique anxiety that you have. So she fought him, and then he stabbed her. She somehow managed... I have an anxiety about that. Weirdo, that way.

She managed to get back in her car and get away, and she got his license plate. Fuck yeah. That kind of shit fucking amazes me. Can she email us and tell her to call us, please? She's like... she probably had like crazy, like, 30, 20 vision, and she was just like... Blowing people up with her mind, and just like, you're going to fucking... You're going to pull my clothes off and fucking memorize every letter on your license plate. Amazing.

His license plate was like a vanity plate of like, I'm a killer. Love to kill, one. So figuring that he was probably up Schitt's Creek at this point, he broke into a home, kidnapped and raped a woman, and stole her car. Two days later, he snatched Sharon O'Donnell and held her with a shotgun, but when he tried to switch license plates on his car, she escaped, he then stole another car. Later that day, he kidnapped and raped another woman, and he was arrested later that day. This was February 3rd, 1970.

He was going for it. I'm going to fucking take every check mark on my to-do list. I'm going to get shit done today, I'm sick of it. I will go to Home Depot. I will drop those clothes off at the Goodwill. I will rape a ton of people. I just have to do it. Oh, no.

This is the podcast where we get fucking thrown, because we're just like being so mean right now. Too bad. I can't live that way. I can't live under that pressure. I've got to be me. That's why this works. That's why this works.

So he was sentenced to seven years for Kinep and robbery, and he pleaded out. He also received two more years for his parole violations. He got out in May 1979, but was not listed as a sex offender. No. Yeah. No. I mean, why would you? No.

He didn't do anything. I mean. He offended, but it wasn't sexual. He took up hiking as a hobby. Alone in the woods. Perfect. But not like other people. He liked the seclusion of the wilderness, because it helped him grab women.

He was a clown hiker. He liked to grab women, so that's the perfect place. Just three months after being released, while living at a halfway house, he committed his first murder. On August 19th, 1979, Eta Cain, 44, was walking on the trails of Mount Tamal Pius, which overlooks Golden Gate Bridge, which is also where I grew up riding mountain bikes right next to my house. This is also where I asked my wife to marry me.

I didn't tell her this part. That's why it works. I mean, I love you, and there's some other stuff we'll get to later, so I'd like a week we'll talk about it, but this is a weird spot. So Eta was alone, like, and she was attacked from behind, forced to get on her knees and beg for her life. And then he shot her in the back of the head execution style. Fucking dick.

Yeah. So her body was found the next day, he had taken $10 from her wallet, credit cards, and her glasses, and left very little evidence. Witnesses said they saw two lone men, one was blonde and acting strange, the other had on a dark blue jacket that made him sweat, and he hit his face. Which one is it? I mean, clearly the guy walking around acting strange was smoking pot, and then the guy hiding his face is the fucking killer.

Yeah. Well, there's one guy that can wear it with his blonde, and there's another guy that's like... Also wearing a jacket when it's hot, it creeps me out so bad, like that immediately gave me a stomach ache to think about that. Yeah. The only the fucked up people wear jackets when it's hot. It's like a weird jacket.

No, you're a murderer. They should be able to just arrest people who are wearing jackets on hot days. You're a murderer, or you're anorexic, and you're fucking cold all the time, and they see some help, man. Yeah, that's right. Either way, they should arrest them both. Totally. They just spit on my iPad.

Said from us. So this guy was clearly a carpenter. For a brief time, people living in the area were freaked out, including young Dave Anthony. But then things went back to normal. Like, nothing happened. Everything went by, and then everyone started walking the trails again. He was released from the halfway house he was living in. So when he did that, he was living in a halfway house, and he went to live with his parents.

Remember? I'd be proud of him. Old blind bitch. Right. And whoever the dad was. Yeah. And you? Okay.

You've got to go to the source. She's like, you can live here again, but you have to do ballet more. Put on this apron. He somehow found a way to pass as a normal productive citizen. He took courses in computer printing at a trade school and graduated with a degree. Then in spring, he went back to killing. And March... Pressing cranes is boring.

Right? You get stuff done, and then you're like, I've got to get back to my hobby. This computer printing is really stressing me out. I've got to relax. March 23-year-old Barbara Schwartz was walking on Mount Tam when a thin athletic man walked up to Schwartz, and her dog started barking at him. He had dark hair and wore hiking boots. He quickly just started stabbing her with his 10-inch knife.

Fuck, man! She was stabbed 12 times. She collapsed, and he ran off, and she was dead. Now, the reason we know this is because this was all seen by a woman who was standing in the trees. Wait, what? Watching. So, some woman just was sitting there...

Standing in the trees? Standing in the trees? I mean, look, everybody's a weirdo. God. That was a misprint in the fucking newspaper, I just promise you. What they didn't say is she had a wet nightgown on. Ma'am, are you all right? There haven't been women around here in 25 years.

There have been no women in the trees. What a terrible story this is. And that's the tag on our podcast. What a terrible story. What a terrible story. It's not a great one. I never thought I'd be reading this in front of 400 people. That's not 400 people.

No, that's your anxiety talking. So, right, seen by a woman in the trees, unfortunately, she described Carpenter horribly and the investigation would be misled for years because of her terrible description. Shocking. She's crazy. Other people in the area, so they saw a man wearing glasses who looked about 40. That was Carpenter. The knife was on days later.

Could that woman have been like an egret or something? They're just like a bird standing in the forest. That's a terrible description. So mustache, yes? Okay. So the knife was found days later and a TV reporter handled it destroying the fingerprints. No. This is 1970?

This is 79. Jesus. The guy's like touching, touching. He's just like a super into touching things. What a story. Yeah. They're gonna love this across the bay. 1979 is not that long ago.

No. This is in January. Oh, no. We totally had fingerprints figured out at that point. But other than that, just touch away. Whoever gets there first. Carpenter also lost his prison-issued glasses during the attack, and it was so crazy as a child from the sketches, I totally remember the glasses.

Yes. They're wearing them right now. Yes. Weird time to bring up, this is my hero. So the next day he went to an optometrist, Barbara Schwartz optometrist, Dominique Kild, to get new glasses. No. On purpose?

No. No. Total just happenstance. What the fuck? Now he had a very unique prescription, and had the optometrist, who was questioned by police, been told about his unique prescription. He probably went a bit able to finger carpenter, right there and then. And they had the glasses, because the glasses came off, so the cops had the prescription,

but they never thought to be like, what do you think about a 70-30? Oh, my God. So now again, people living around the area totally freaked out, not going near Mount Tam again, and then again, time goes by, and people start going back to Mount Tam. The flowers are so pretty. It's hard to stay away. There's great trees, and there's a woman standing in it, and they grit like a woman standing in it with a wet rope.

So on October 15th, 26-year-old Ann Alderson was sitting alone, watching the sunset. Don't do it. A witness saw her, and also saw a weird 50-year-old man, but decided against warning her. Oh, well. Wrong call. But I'm sure he led a fine life with just him and his bottle of whiskey. Just sitting there going, ah, cluck, cluck, cluck. Yeah, that's horrifying.

You would never forgive yourself. No. Of course not. It's awful. That's the thing is, just be rude, go up to people and be like, hi, I know this makes me the weirdo, but there's a weirdo over there. Yeah. You know, you make the call, who you hate or run away from.

But as a dude, as a dude, you walk over and go, hey, there's a really weird guy, right? Come in close while I describe the guy. Can I drive you home? Let me drive you away from the creek. He's got curly hair and glasses, and like, great pants and a marooch. I totally understand why you wouldn't say it, but I also just, ugh. What are the fucking chances, man, that you see a weirdo, like I see a weirdo multiple times a day.

Yeah. Looking in the mirror. No. Okay, so Anne was an escalation. She was raped and then allowed to dress again and then shot with a single bullet through the head. He took her right earring and then propped her up to make it look like she was sitting against a rock.

She also appeared to have been shot while begging for her life, and he was just getting rolling. Shana May was supposed to meet friends on November 28th in Point Rays National Seashore to go hiking. She was found two days later. She was nude and had been raped and bound with picture, frame wire, shot three times in the head and dumped into a trench. Right besides her body was a second young woman, 22-year-old Diana O'Connell.

She had also gone missing this time while hiking with friends. What? What? What? What? What. What? What?

What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What?

What? This is the worst. One of her friends was faster and got ahead of her on the path and her other friend. Am I wrong? She was kind of like, I'm sorry. You're not wrong, you're not wrong. You're not, because I had total empathy for that person. I was like, man, she just wanted to get up the top.

You're talking about like my new boy I'm dating and you're just like, bye. Bye. Fuck you. Watch my calves. R.E.I. Fuck you. Okay.

Then what about her other friend who was slower that was behind her? Oh no. Who's the cunt now? I can't choose anymore. There's so many to pick from. It's a weird thing to go hiking with your friends and then you all split up.

No, we don't do that. That's why I don't hike. Or have friends. It's not worth it. So she also disappeared. Her friends saw nothing because they were so far ahead and behind. So either friend, it was as if they were all going

and then the middle first. And they got to the top and they're like, where is she? That's horrifying. Horrifying. Like off the trail. And it was supposed to be horrifying. Yeah.

Diana had been shot twice in the head and a nearby, a hiker nearby heard all the shots and it appears Carpenter had killed them, both the girls at the same time. Wait, the... So the two girls were sitting side by side in a trench and he had killed them both at once. Yeah.

Diana had also been strangled and raped. The police concluded one of the women had interrupted Carpenter attacking the other woman. So he killed them both. Yeah. I just really quick. I wish I could, we had a slide show of Mount Tam right now because it is the most gorgeous place.

It's so beautiful. The place where they take all the pictures of San Francisco where you, of the Golden Gate Bridge and then you see San Francisco behind it. That's Mount Tam. Yeah. It's... That's where Elvis is from.

It's got redwood trees. It's like, it's got, it's the most, for natural, you know, wonder. I mean, it's just the most incredible one. Like we would go on field trips there all the time in grammar school. Mountain bikes were invented there. Yeah.

Really? Yeah, mountain bikes were invented. So the idea that this man is that fucking like angry that he's going to like God's most perfect place and fucking hiding and picking people off. And we all were just like, hey, you want to go to Mount Tam for the day? And you would just go walking and hiking on it.

Like everybody would just be, Mount Tam would just go there for the day and just hike and cruise. Yeah. Crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. It's scary.

Okay. So that same day, two more bodies were found a half mile away. Jesus Christ. Both had been shot in the head. What the fuck? He's in his Berserker mode. Yeah.

He's going crazy. Creepo bananas, I think they call it in court. You're a circuit court judge? I am a circuit court judge. Cool. This was my case. Oh. This might be unethical.

But for the first time, one of them was male. Richard Stowers was 18 as fiance Cynthia Marlin was 18. Also, they had been missing for quite some time since October 11th. Ballistic now tied the murders together and suddenly everyone realized there was a serial killer on the loose on Mount Tam. Police were told to avoid the area alone.

Wait, what? Yeah, that's how I have a problem with that one. Wait, police were told to avoid? No, sorry, people. There we go. But also, also, I assume police also. You know what?

I just want to say this, police are people. But. There's all these hiking cops that are like, I got to go up there, man. No, please, I have to warn you. But also like two, they just found two people who were killed together and then another girl who was with two other friends.

So not even alone. No, buddy system is not going to help you. Also, he has a gun. Like who, it's like a knife. One of you can like skedaddle, but like if there's a gun, you're both fucked. Yeah. What makes a person a murderer?

Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong and on my new podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10 minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths, and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and criminal profiler.

On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton Serial Killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia,

and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. So the press named him the Trailside Killer. Police, local police reached out to the FBI for help.

Okay, the FBI came up with a profile. They said he was shy, reclusive, and probably had a speech impediment, and was unsure of himself in social situations. He had no victim type, it was about opportunity. He was like a spider waiting for a fly to come to his web. He was white, intelligent, blue-collar, and had been in prison.

He would have also had a, oh boy, that's a word that corrected itself on this thing. It would have had two or three boyhood indicators of starting a fire, bedwetting, and animal cruelty. So he had two of the three. The profiler concluded he had a speech impediment because of the locations of the attacks. Quote, he has some kind of defect that really bothers him.

How does, I don't know, how do they know that? They're so good, because they're so good. When I read, I was just like, how do you do that? That's bananas! They just know. They were sitting at a table across from him, and they were like, tell us about yourself. Yeah, that's what they do.

They just interview all the criminals that come through on that high level. There's a whole department at the FBI that's just all about it, and it's fucking fascinating. But because he's killing in the woods, he's like, well, the guy's got a lisp. Yes, yes, is that awesome? Isn't that amazing?

It's fucking amazing. And then the FBI guy did this in the local cop event. Like, he's a partier. He likes going out on boats. Like, he was totally not even remotely close. My brother-in-law, I'm positive. Where's the backwards hat? Listen to a lot of Sammy Hagar.

He's got a truck boat truck. On March 29, 1981, Ellen Marie Hansen and Steven Hirtle, students at UC Davis were hiking in Santa Cruz. Now, this is about 80 miles south of Mount Tam. Carpenter walked up to them and threatened them with a gun, demanding Ellen let him rape her. She was not down with the plan. Steve begged to be let go,

and then Carpenter shot Ellen point blank twice in the head. Steve ran away, and he was shot in the neck, but he did not die. Wow. Steve gave police a great description of Carpenter, unlike the fucking woman in the woods, who was like, he looks like a hawk. Oh, no.

She had seen someone be stabbed 12 times. Yeah, that'll fuck it up. It's a squint. And then you can't get anybody's facial features correct. And then she was in a tree the whole time. Oh, did I not mention she had grown into the tree? Oh. Yeah, she was part of the tree.

Oh, she was some kind of an orc thing? Was she from Middle Earth? She was an ant. Oh, was it ant? I got deep into it. Others came forward and said they had seen Carpenter in the area and fleeing in a foreign car. Someone said the foreign car was a fiat.

It's just hilarious because it's a very popular Marin. Do you remember that fiat? Yeah. A composite was placed in newspapers and run on TVs. So now they have this drawing out there. It's running everywhere. A woman then called police and said she had met that man on a cruise to Japan 26 years earlier.

What? And that was the woman in the forest. You doubted her that she came back hard. Sorry. She's making right on her wrong. And she said that the man had been bothering her and her daughter with inappropriate behavior. And he had a stutter.

And he was a ship's purser. Fuck. And it was my dad. And he used to be a fireman. What? Mystery Carpenter. And she had his signature in a book, which she still had. Why did that happen?

I don't know. They used to love to get serial killer signatures before they really kicked it off. That was this thing in the 60s. This is the point when you're writing a script and you go, let's just hustle along. What about a lady on a Chinese cruise that met the guy 26 years?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not going on cruise anymore. No, no, no, just have him do it. OK, but there were a lot of men named David Carpenter in Northern California. So Carpenter then grew a beard. On May 2, Heather Roxanne Skaggs told her boyfriend, she was 20.

What's going on over there? Oh, I thought you guys were up to something. Oh, I'm an L, man. I saw it at the corner of my eye. I don't know. You were looking at each other. OK. Yeah, we're going to jump on your back.

But not right now. We're planning it for later. Don't worry about it. I'm going to move my chair. So Heather Roxanne Skaggs, 20, tells her boyfriend she's going to see David Carpenter to buy a used car. She was a student at a place where Carpenter taught people how to use computer typesetting machines.

What the fuck, kind of crazy time is this? Before leaving, she gave her boyfriend the number and that address of David Carpenter, and when she expected to return. Who the fuck does that unless they're creeped out by the guy, right? I mean, you're never like. Here's all the information of this person going to me.

She did not return. The boyfriend went and confronted Carpenter, which is fucking ballsy beyond words. Good for him. Did you kill my girlfriend? Carpenter said she'd never come, and then the boyfriend called police. Carpenter's name raised a flag, as did Heather being Lord.

And Carpenter looked exactly like the composite drawing. Police then contacted his parole officer, who immediately realized Carpenter fit into everything police were saying. But just then, when they called on the phone and not at any point earlier. Oh, my god. You talking about murdery David? We are stuck in.

He kept inviting me. Fuck, that guy creeps me out. Shoot. You know what? I should have thought of this before. I'm sorry. I stopped watching the news because it depresses me, but now I realize.

I didn't want to take it in all the time. He came in Wednesday covered in blood, and I was like, this seems. But then I had my book club, and I don't know. It all just kind of slipped my mind. I don't care about anything anymore. So unfortunately, this is where it's fucked up. Unfortunately, Carpenter is where it's fucked up.

I mean, this is where government records are like, really guys? So unfortunately, Carpenter had not shun up in the records of released inmates when they initially looked due to a technicality. He'd been released by California prisons to serve a federal sentence. So he was technically in federal custody, so they didn't count him as a released prisoner.

So they could have, with the records, found him. Because that first woman he killed, he left his prison-issued glasses, and they could have tracked him down right there. This is just like a threes company I saw once. It's just this insane misunderstanding, except for. Oh, you ropers. Come on out, come on out.

So the multi-agency task force started following him. Then one day they saw him carrying a bag, and they approached him, and they told him he was under arrest. And at first he was confused, and then he said, please don't hurt me. I bet they punched him right in the face. The pieces quickly fell into place. There was tons of evidence.

Everyone who saw him was brought in to identify him. Stephen Hurdle, who had been shot in the neck, IDDA met up a lineup. Six out of seven witnesses did the same. Carpenter was formally charged in the murder and attempted murder in Santa Cruz. At his arraignment, he stuttered so badly he had a difficult time answering the judge's questions,

which was simply to agree that his name was as stated. Heather Skog's body was found a couple of weeks later. His total number of murder victims was nine. He was tried in San Diego because of you could not do it in Marin. He was convicted and sentenced to die in the gas chamber, and he's still on death row in San Quentin. He's still alive?

He's still alive. And he's our next guest, everyone? Davey, get out here! Get out here! You fucking scamp! You son of a bitch! What is your problem? What is your problem?

Fuck! That's fucked up, man. Between that one, and I'm sure you guys had Richard Ramirez, were you here then? That was fucking terrifying. No, I'm a baby. I've never heard that one before. That was amazing.

But no one knows about that one. I've never heard of it. Do you want to hear something really weird? When the hillside stranglers were out in LA, I was like, how the fuck can they call them? We got our trailside guy. Like, I literally had a moment of, you can't do that. It's our thing.

You can steal our name. It's your property. But yeah, that was like, like so for like a year and a half, we didn't go near the place that we all hung out on. That's crazy. Because we were terrified of being murdered. I bet you drank a lot less beer that summer. Is it a summer?

I don't know. Well, I mean, a year and a half is a long summer. That's bananas. I've never heard of that before. He was super bananas. I don't know why it kind of flew under the radar. I remember being really weirded out that he was caught in Santa Cruz.

Like, he went to the other place that looked exactly like Mount Tam. It looks exactly the same. It has all these redwood trees. And it's like, it's amazing looking. There's a little carnival there. Yes, there's a carnival. What?

That's right. The Santa Cruz boardwalk? Yeah. Is that what we're talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Why are you laughing at me? I guess I'm a little confused.

There is a carnival area. Yeah. And yet? He would go down and ride the roller coaster sometimes. It just doesn't encompass. It's just not the whole area. It's not Santa Cruz? Well, there's also mountains.

Oh, I didn't know that. Why would I care about mountains? You know, there's TV you can watch in your apartment. And it's fucking great. You don't get murdered all the time. I'm sorry. Am I wrong? No, it's totally fine.

It makes sense. Good one, Dave. Was it? Yeah. I feel uncomfortable. Why? I mean, that's OK. No, it's great.

That's how it is. Because, OK, so our rule on the dollop is no child killings or doing horrible things to children, no serial killers, and no sexual assaults. You're on the wrong podcast for me. But those are our rules. Really? So it's very weird for me to read that.

Yeah. Do you feel really good right now? I feel dirty. I think there's something about being a guy knowing that guys did that to women. And you're like, eh, it feels gross. Say you're sorry. I'm sorry.

And now it's fine. I'm sorry. That's really all we're looking for. I feel so free. That's all we need. You know what's actually, that's hilarious. My sister told me on the phone the other day that she was, when she was in college,

she was walking in Sacramento. She was walking from Popeyes down to another bar in Old Sac. And there was a guy there. It's like in Old Sacramento, they made it look like an Old Western town. So you're walking down a sidewalk that's like wooden planks or whatever. And so she was walking.

She could hear a guy walking behind her. Because he had spurs on. It was the sheriff. And no, she could hear a guy walking behind her. So she turned around and goes, stop following me. And he goes, I'll stay right here. And then he let her walk. That's all we're asking for.

That is awesome. Yeah, we might freak out every once in a while. We just want you to stay where you are. The Killgates could be very intimidating in this situation. No shit. I know both of them. Yeah. Crowns fuck around.

No, you do not. We don't fuck around. All right, should I go next? Yes, please. Since we're going down a line. Well, what do you do? What do I do for a living? No.

How do you do your stories? Well, I was trying to print it up. But Georgia would like us. Can Georgia have some more cranks? Vince, this is like the most emasculated. There he is. Oh, yay. Thank you, baby.

Yay. Wow. We watch wrestling podcasts. We watch wrestling podcasts. Vince, I'm so sorry. He does the wrestling podcast, which what's it called? With Matt McCarthy. We watch wrestling.

Matt McCarthy. Yep, all right. Matt's very funny. So emasculating. I'm so sorry. I love you. It was a walk on. It was a gift.

It was great. It's a surprise guest. But this was a weird where you shook it out of me. I'm going to do yours now, before you. You're like, yay. Yay. Thank you. You do, I can't read.

Well, I chose to, I wanted to do someone, I want to do someone really local. And so I Googled Beverly Center Serial Killer as it's, that was my dream. I decided to shoot for the stars. That's what I wanted. You can't. Just a guy stuck in the Armani store.

Yes. He's just pulling a piano wire around guys that come out of the Armani store. Too much cologne. There isn't one. There isn't one. I'm sorry. I just thought maybe if there was like,

it was an old location of something from old Los Angeles, whatever. So, but then I remembered one that's semi-local and really awesome are the Wineville Chicken Coop Murders. Do you guys know those? Oh, a Karen. It's what the Clint Eastwood movie, The Changeling, was based on.

If you don't know if you saw that or not, let me re-enact Angelina Jolie's Star Turn as playing Christine Collins in The Changeling. My son! No! That was it. She did that. Oh, that's all right.

That's all right. Don't clap. It was too, it was much too loud. But that's exactly how she did it in the movie 50 times. Yeah. Clint Eastwood is like, can we get my son for you again? Can we hear that four more times? She was, she was in that movie.

I remember watching him and going, she's distractingly beautiful. We were like, why would she be? You're like, nothing bad ever happened. No, nothing bad ever happens as a person. She's in a castle. The woman who was the mother wasn't that hot. Like, it wasn't like she was a hot mom.

Yeah, she was not a hot mom. No. And that's all you wanted. It's fine. But Angelina Jolie was so like, he didn't say it like it was hot. But when you hear this story, at the, at the... Fair enough.

At the end of the story, you'll think, oh, I wish the mom had been hotter. But go ahead. After you hear about this horrible child murder and death, you're going to be like, is the mom an eater above? Because if this, if we're in a butterface situation, you know what I mean? Turn this bug out of that.

I just shamed the shit out of her. The only way we could have sympathy for her is if she was Angelina Jolie hot. I just... There is a book by a man named Anthony Flacco called The Road Out of Hell, Sanford Clark and the True Story of the Wineville Chicken Murders.

It's got very good reviews on Amazon. I don't have time to read it. But if you want to, if you're looking for facts... I feel like murders are chickens. Yeah. Chickens are murdered every day in this country. No, no, no, no. This isn't my vegan podcast festival.

This is just to give you a sense. This was such a horrible crime and such a stain on the community that Wineville permanently changed its name. It's now called Mira Loma. Oh, shit. That's how huge this was and bad it was. It was 1926. Changed all the signs and everything.

Yo, yeah, yeah, yeah. The two signs they have. They use the same letters. They just kind of rearrange them into Mira Loma. What can we turn this into? Can we have a... We need a town with a bunch of bells. We can flip the W upside down.

Mira. Wait. No, is this? Yeah, it's just upside down Wineville. I can see it right here. This is great. All right. Gordon Northcutt was 17 years old when he moved to Los Angeles

from Canada with his parents. And when he was 19, he asked his dad to buy him a chicken ranch in Wineville. As you do when you're 19. Because you're like, how do I... How am I punk rock? Chickens. That's how I'm going to do it.

I'll feed them and water them. Take care of the land. So two years later, he went back up to Canada and convinced his sister who still lived there to let him take her son, his 13-year-old nephew, Sanford Clark, back down to California to help him work on the chicken ranch and raise the chickens.

What? Yeah. Like, hey, I need some labor. What's your kid doing? Yes. It was the 20s, and so it was kind of common for young boys to have jobs and work and help the family out. In any other situation, when your uncle is in a fucking

creep-ass murderer, it would be, like, good for the kid. Right. But, like... But there's always that shit. Everyone's in the blue. Yeah. It's always that one time. They're a fucker.

Um, as I wrote here, the problem was Gordon Northcutt was the bad kind of uncle. Oh, no. Oh, get used to it. This is fucking darkest shit. That was an uncle joke. Cheers. Brace yourself.

Yeah, she may... She may... This makes my story look like a carnival in Santa Cruz. How dare you? How dare you? The rivalry continues. Uh, as a teen in Canada, he was accused of molesting a very young boy, but his mother claimed that he was innocent

and would never be able to do anything like that, so the police did not charge him. Oh. Oh, my God. What? Mommy was like, no. I mean... Um, which, you know, I used to be very bitter that my mother

didn't participate in my life enough. Like, she didn't come to my plays and stuff, and she was never at, like, a softball game. And then I read this story of Gordon and his mother, and I'm like, I think it's for the best. Yeah. Uh, the rest of the family knew that he was volatile and he once even beat up his own father.

Jesus. And for that, he got a chicken ranch. Uh, you know what? I get that. That's something I get. That's okay. I mean, no, I know. Aw.

Um, his father actually ended up spending the back half of his life in an insane asylum. So the family had a lot of mental illness and a lot of criminals. He had two... Gordon had two uncles that were also in San Quentin. So not the greatest group from Canada. Usually people are so lovely and polite

with your delicious chocolate, but this guy was a fucking lunatic. All right. So he brought Sanford back down to work on the chicken ranch and immediately began abusing and raping him. Um, they would also, together, he would make Sanford drive into Los Angeles with him, and so then they would drive around neighborhoods

and he would ask boys if they needed extra money, if they wanted to take a job, if they needed extra money, and the boys would get in the car because Sanford, the young boy, was already in the car. No, no, no, no. Um, yeah. This was back... This was before...

Stranger Danger wasn't even on anyone's mind. They were like, yay, strangers, back then. Go meet yourself a stranger, young America. It was the posters on every bus stop. All right. So he did that so much that he realized he would go into either Riverside County or L.A.

and pick up boys, molest them, attack them, and then bring them back to their neighborhood. Whoa. And just drop them off. Catch and release, right? Yes. So, but he slowly started to... Yeah.

I mean... But he slowly started to realize that that was incredibly dangerous, and that's when, which is how it always goes with serial killers, that's when it escalates. But get rid of the evidence, which is the... Yeah. Don't leave a fucking witness.

Yeah. Um, so he also did a thing where he put a help wanted out in the paper asking young boy... young boys... Stick come and work on his chicken ranch. And no one was like, uh, that's a fucking issue. Yeah. Everyone's like, no, I think young boys love chickens.

I think it would be... It's probably best. Hey, Dad, there's a man with a bunch of chickens. Can I go? Go on, son! Yippee! Yippee! Um...

Yeah, I wrote here like a sort of murder postmates. That's awful. Boo, boo, Karen. Well, it's just... It's just Craigslist. Karen's turning on the audience. Oh, that's how I feel my most comfortable. So he did this for two years.

Jesus. And boys were disappearing without a trace. Jesus. So... Do we know how many boys? Well, yes, eventually. But they don't know, like, the exact number, because he was so fucking crazy

that when he finally went to court, he kept admitting to all the murders, then saying he didn't do it, then saying he did four, then saying he did 50. Um, and the problem was, he was so incredibly thorough. He...

What he did was he would kill... kill them, take their bodies out to the desert, and burn them. And then take the bones from whatever... he burned them and then disposed of them on the ranch. So they had to... When the cops were finally rated the ranch and were looking, they were just fine...

They were having to piece together tiny shards of bone from all different people. This thing is a fucking crazy nightmare. There's tons of buttons out in the lobby if you need any. Yeah, I was... I was gonna say I was about to release some balloons. I'm not gonna do that now.

So they found a decapitated teenager's body in a burlap sack on the side of the road in La Puente. Why did he leave him there? Why did he leave a decapitated boy? They think that happened because he, like, found him, attacked him, killed him in all one spot, and then decapitated him thinking if they don't have the head,

they won't ever find out who it is. Yeah. Interesting. It's a little lazy, though, considering how thorough he is. Yeah, escalating. Well, this was his first one. So, you know, he's just getting warmed up. Okay.

So, don't you worry. So then in March, that's when he... Walter Collins was going to the movies. His mom had given him some money. She went to work. He was walking down to the movies, and he pulled his old... Do you need extra money thing?

Yeah, chickens get in the car, and he did. So he disappeared, like, without a trace. And... Because his mom was coming back from work, like, really soon. She was... It wasn't, like, some long thing that he was by himself. And that story, his disappearance and the manhunt that happened after that, was just blew up.

It was huge, and it was a nationwide story. Then in May, two brothers, Louis and Nelson Winslow, aged 10 and 12, disappeared on their walk home from their model yacht club meeting in Pomona. I mean, it was a great meeting. Yeah. The different yachts that were discussed. When you think of yacht clubs, you think Pomona.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. For sure. The rich, the elite. So, Walter... The Walter Collins story is the one that gets focused on and the changeling, and it is the most fascinating

because these things that happen in it are so fucking crazy, aside from the kidnapping and murder itself. So, basically, the LAPD, at the same time, was under investigation for mass corruption. So, they were already had really bad press. They were really doing badly. And then, Walter Collins' disappearance, it was five months, and they still hadn't found him.

Or any trace, they had no clues whatsoever. So, this is when they were... The mayor and the police chief were selling. You could buy to become a cop, and once you were a cop, then you could buy your way up. So, there were no, like, actual guys in law enforcement. You just paid, and then you become a detective.

Yeah, and now they pay you $30,000 a year, and everyone's happy. What just happened? I'm sorry. Go ahead and take it. Bye. Go on. But, yeah, they were literally...

Well, actually, you know, what's funny is, that's how my mother's great-grandfather, I don't know how far away that is from me, but that's how he got into the Oakland Police Department. Yeah, he's a super crooked cop. I come from a long line of crooked cops. Well, yeah, they were just... They were already doing bad soap,

but this is... Now, this is an example of the LAPD, like, they already, you know, they've had a hard time with it. They've done... They've mishandled many, many things, as we all know. This one is unbelievable. So, after five months,

they don't have a body. They don't have clues. They have nothing. So, they get a phone call that they have found a boy in DeKalb, Illinois, who is claiming to be Walter Collins. Okay, we're in. So, they're like, this is amazing.

So, they do phone calls, and they... So, the police department orchestrates this huge press conference at the train station, when he's gonna show up, and it's gonna be like, and the happy reunion, and the cops are the ones that did it.

So, when the boy walks off, everyone's seen the movie, or if you have the boy walks off the train, and Christine Collins is staying there, and she's like, that's not my son. Because it wasn't her son. But he was in Illinois. So, the cop says,

want you to take him home and try him out for a couple weeks. Oh. She's like... Is that even me? Yeah, it's so crazy. What it's basically saying is politics is more important than anything.

Move out of the picture frame. And maybe women are so crazy, because they're like... But they must've been like, no, he's not your boy, we need this one. We need a win. What's the diff?

Man, just take one. Please, the LA Weekly's here. We're gonna get our picture in every paper. I mean, where did that boy come from? Like, it's all fucked up. Well, here we go. So, of course, three weeks later, when she's living in a house of the boy

who's pretending to be her son, which, can you imagine how creepy that is? He's pretending and he won't drop it. And she's sitting in the other room like, um, okay. Uh, so... She goes back... A future killer.

Yeah. In the house also. He's up to no good. So, she goes back to Captain J.J. Jones, who's the man in charge at the time. J.J. Yeah. And she has Walter's dental records.

She has signed affidavits from witnesses who have met the son and say this is not Walter Collins. Um, she's a big stack of evidence. It's not him. And so, um, the police chief did what any good civil servant would do in a situation like that.

He threw her in a mental institution. Well, she was cuckoo. I mean, for justice. So... Finally, they get it out. Uh, and this... The only reason that any of this got brought to light is because she, when Walter first went missing,

there was this, um, he, it's a priest, or he was like a pastor, and I'm not gonna be able to say his name because it's crazy. It looks like someone had a stroke as they were typing on murder pedia. It's like, that's not Polish and it's not Czech, like, there's a lot of V's and E's and Z's.

So, I was like, I'm not even gonna cut and paste that. For you. That's how much I can't handle that name. I support that. But he basically was the one that got it on all the radio shows and stuff. Like, on... He made it, um,

because he had a, uh, every Sunday he had a radio show, and so he talked about finding Walter Collins all the time. So then when she was put into the mental institution, he was, like, advocating for her and trying to get her out. So eventually they get out of the boy, um, that he had run away from home because he had a really mean stepmother, and he had been on the road for, like, three weeks by himself.

A nine-year-old kid. And he was somewhere... There was, like, basically he was in a restaurant in, in DeKalb, and, um, like, an old hobo that was in the restaurant with him was like, You look like that boy that's missing in California. And then the little boy hears California and goes,

I'm gonna go to Cal... I'm gonna say I'm him and go to California and meet Tom Mix, my favorite cowboy from the movies. And so he tells the guy, I am Walter Collins. And so he calls the cops and they... Christine paid for his train ticket to come out. This kid is smarter than all of us.

Yes, for sure. And the kid got what he wanted. Everyone else is fucked, right? Yeah. Yes. Did he meet... Well, did he meet the cowboy? Uh, he got to be in four Tom Mix films.

Oh. No. Karen, we believed you. He really did believe me. I believed you. You did? Karen's always lying as she says. Now I...

Now I want to lie more. It's a fucking thing. All right, so... Anyway, simultaneously, Sanford Clark's sister, Jesse, had been getting letters from him, but not that often. He told her he would write her all the time.

But he wasn't writing her all the time, and the things that he was writing in the letters did not sound like him at all. It was like very vague information. He wouldn't say, like, if he was okay. It was... So she was getting worried up in Canada. So she decided,

I'm going to go down and pay them a visit. And when she shows up, she's like, this is bad news. Something is terribly wrong. Because it smelled like dead boy everywhere. Yeah. There was kind of... Imagine how fucked up the place must have been

if he's scattering boy bones. I mean... Well, no, it's... Yeah, it's going to be like a Texas Chainsaw Massacre-esque situation inside the house. She was horrified by their house living conditions. And by the fact that clearly this... At this time,

probably 14-year-old boy was, like, made to work like hard labor every day. And looked terrible, like, was shaken and whatever. So she... One night when the bad uncle was asleep, she gets him to tell her what's going on. And the story that he tells her is so horrifying. She cannot believe it,

but they realize they can't do anything while she's still there. Because they'll probably just kill both of them. So she acted like nothing happened, and she didn't know anything. And then she went back to Canada. And they went to the American consulate. Did she take the boy with her?

No. No. Well, they... Run. This was the two of their... It was Jesse and Sanford's plan that they couldn't act like anything happened because he would kill them.

Run. But why... I can't justify her choices. Okay. Karen. I wish I could. I believe in them. Karen, goddammit.

Tell us. I know. So... Why? Yeah, I wish I could. So... So they contact the American consulate. The American consulate calls the LAPD.

Something else comes up about immigration. So they end up sending two immigration officers out to the ranch. Great. And as they are heading out, it's a big, long driveway to get to the house. So San... So Gordon sees the cars coming

and tells Sanford, stall them. I'm running for the tree line. And if you don't stall them, I'll shoot you from the tree line. And then he takes off running. And he ends up escaping, meeting up with his mother

and escaping to Canada. Then the cops get Sanford and they're holding him and he starts telling them everything. And he... I mean, this stories are horrifying. These little boys held in chicken coops, him making Sanford

either kill the little boys with him or do it himself so that he would also be complicit and not tell. So basically he had this little boy convinced and if he said anything, he was the one that was going to go to jail. It's super crazy.

So fuck... We have an audience. This is so fucked up. I just realized that... Well, this is... I mean, what are we going to do? This is what we do. No, I know.

They know. They're just making noises. Sometimes... Sometimes they laugh at home and sometimes they just groan and fall on the floor. Fuck you guys. You just have to deal with all of it.

So... When the police raided the farm, they found axes covered in blood and farm equipment that was coated in blood and human hair. There were bone fragments and several shallow graves around the ranch and almost all of them were linked

to male children. It was later proven that the unidentified Mexican boy whose head had been chopped off was one of Northcott's first victims and police later identified him as Alvin Gothia. Sanford testified

that Gordon made him burn the head and crushed his skull and scattered the bones. Inside the house, they found a book that was believed to belong to the Winslow Brothers and several letters the boys tried to write to their parents,

which is a horrifying idea that he's keeping them long enough that he's going in and going like you can write a letter to your parents if you want to. Fuck. While nothing of Walter Collins was discovered, Sanford Clark remained adamant

that he had been one of the boys kept hostage on the farm. And according to the... Oh, sorry. The police could only... only had enough evidence to prove three murders, which were the Winslow Brothers

and Alvin Gothia, but they believe, at one point, Gordon admitted to 20, they believe that there could be many, many more, because he basically... Well, how long did this go on? For two years.

I mean, there's tons more. Yeah. And they just can't... They're scattered. It's like they basically built it for two hide bodies, this ranch. It's crazy. So...

I know, right? So his mother, Sarah, was convicted of killing Walter Collins. So it turns out when they go up to extradite him from Canada, he's caught with his mother, and the mother says, I killed Walter Collins,

and I killed a bunch of them. It's a great mom. No. Yes, it turns out that... It's a mom that cares about her kids. It's a mom who is willing to participate. Right. Um, she...

We're saying the same thing, right? She... Yes, I think so. She... This is why I can't be a mom. I'd be like, take this fucking psycho. You know what? You do your murdering out in the chicken coop. I don't want to be a part of this.

No, I will not take the blame. No, she... She was one of the ones who said... Who encouraged him to kill his victims. She was there from the beginning. No. This is what, according to Sanford, she was in...

She was in from the beginning and was participating the whole time. When they were on trial, she came out and said that she and Gordon were lovers. She said that... She said that Gordon was the incestuous son of her husband and her daughter. I mean, it was...

Apparently, the trial was in total insanity and total chaos, and every day there were, like, different horrifying headlines. And she ended up... She was sentenced to life imprisonment, but she was paroled after 12 years. Let's get her back to that.

What? Yeah. Yeah. Fucking... It was what I thought was proper at the time. That was a joke where I'm the judge now. I feel like... My story was like an explosion of glitter

compared to yours. That's right. During his trial, Gordon demanded to represent himself, so his two lawyers quit, and then he cross-examined himself. Oh, my God. Because he's insane.

And probably, like, grilling himself. Why didn't you kill the boys? I didn't kill the boys! What did you look at? He was found guilty, and he was hanged at San Quentin in February of 1929. No, they got that done fast.

No, I hanged, yeah. Yeah, they were like, goodbye. Bye. And as we've all seen, but Walter Collins' mother did go to San Quentin on the day he was being hanged to beg him to please tell her

if he killed her son or not, and he fucked with her until they put the bag on his head and walked him up the stairs. So she believed for the rest of her life there was a possibility that her son was alive. Poor baby. I decided to end on the downest note

I possibly could find. He went out strong. Right? That strong is just as good as... You got a little bit of credit. He went out, he's like, you know what? I'm gonna stay true to myself.

I'm a fucking total asshole. Yeah. I'm taking it all the way to the chair. He's fucking Kanye over here. I don't know what that means. You don't know what it means? I mean, it's Kanye. I know, but it was...

I know. It's fairly well applied. Well, because Kanye, I don't know. Millennials. What's your research at? Okay, that was great. It's great the right word. All right.

I'm going back to Australia. Okay. Because... Because you did research here about the last one, and by the way, that one was fucking awesome. Just throwing that out there. Thank you. Australia, you got some fucked up shit going on over there, man.

So, Mark Aaron Rust. Fucking murderer. He was born... I mean... You're not gonna believe this. Don't ease into it. All right. Don't creep up on that story.

Do you guys know the theme of this podcast? No. Fuck it. So, he was born in 1965. He is a self-described loner. He was 13 when he started following girls while fascinating about having sex with them, and he started exposing himself to women as a teen. And he really liked the reaction of the women that he would expose.

Like, it's so creepy. Like, he would masturbate in front of them and be like, love that they were shocked and horrified. That's the whole thing. That's fucked up, man. All right, he's described it as obese, disheveled, odorous man who expressed... Come on. His limited vocabulary in a monotone.

He was like a creepy, creepy Greek. Was this written by a high school cheerleader? No. He was mean. Georgia Hart Stark. So, he was charged seven times within decency offenses, but was only fined, never convicted. What year is this?

Well, he was born in 1965. He was probably like mid- to late-70s or late-80s. I mean, everything was cool in the 70s, I get it. They just were like, go ahead. So, he was creepy. He was weird. He got... He married twice because...

They always do. They always fucking do. They must be great at small talk. You know what I mean? That's the thing I can't do. He's like a... I love bullying. It works.

It's about pheromones. Okay, so after his... After his second marriage ended, his wife, the time's daughter, his stepdaughter, claimed he had sexually assaulted her. He was never charged but had to attend sessions with sex offenders treatment program, but he left halfway through the first session

because he thought the program was stupid. Yeah, but that's... I mean, let's not judge it until we know. Yeah, yeah. And so, we take the program. Right. So, he was working as a taxi driver in... So, this is April 1999.

And so, Maya Jackick, she's 30, and she's walking in the neighborhood where he's driving a taxi. Don't look at my notes. It's too late. I've read them all upside down. All right. She's a fucking sweet angel.

She's born in Croatia in 69, and in 1990, she fled the country due to the civil war with Serbia. So, she's like getting a better start in Australia. She's a sales assistant in a clothing store, and she's in this neighborhood for some fucking reason. She's in this upperclass neighborhood. He sees her...

I like the details. And he says to her... He says, want a lift in an Australian accent. Like a... Like a... Like an L... Do it. I can't do that.

Come on, do it. You want a lift, mate? No, it's not. There it is. There we go. That was Peaky Blinders. And she says... She's a fucking...

She's staying sexy, and she's like, fuck yourself. And he says, have a better route, and Australian means like... Road means fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she says, no, and keeps walking. He drives after her and parks in a spot she had to walk by. He exposes herself to him

and wanting to see her horrified face, and this fucking amazing person scoffed at him. Oh. Not with a guy and not what he wants to have happen. No. Oh, she was... No, he does. He snaps, grabs her, pulls her into this like bushy area,

and tries to rape her, and it escalated to murder when he chokes her to death. Then he covers her body. She's like in the bushes. He covers her, but he wanted her to be found in a creepy fucked up way, and it's like abandoned building. So he calls from a pay phone nearby to the...

To 911 in this country. 0000. Thank you. And he says, hey, I was just walking by, and there's a body. I see a body. And two of these things happened, and the cops didn't find her body.

And so finally, he fucking... Five days later, he fucking... After him calling multiple times, he puts a note like under a cop's windshield that says like, hi. There's a... He says, there's a dead girl's body in the... He's like, puts an arrow basically pointing toward her nose.

He literally, the last phone call, he's like, do I have to draw you a map? And he's like, I'm drawing a map. Yes. I've now engraved an invitation for you to come and see the body. It's so sad. Yes. And then they finally find her.

But they realize that the calls and the fucking note has to do... Like, clearly it's not normal. They just hear from across the street, finally. Yeah. So the release of the public, nobody fucking identifies the note or the voice, the calls. It's six days later, the body's found. So he's in jail in late 1999 for trespassing,

released on parole in 2001. Ten days later after that, he grabs a woman and rapes her and sexually assaults her. And then... But she got out. She got away from him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Magumi Suzuki,

she's an 18-year-old, smart, wonderful Japanese exchange student attending college in Adelaide in 2001. She's going to be a counselor for Internet... Like, she's a good fucking person, you know? And on August 3rd, she leaves class and she's waiting at a bus stop and rust fucking spots her. And he grabs her, tries to rape her, and he couldn't get an erection.

Which, you know, pisses people like this off, right? Pisses me. I feel like that's across the board. Tell us, tell us everything. So he tries to strangle her, but he can't. And so he bashed her head with a fucking rock. I know, baby Angel. And then he wraps her body in sheets.

And so he puts her in a rubbish bin, in a trash bin for everyone here, nearby. And she's reported missing. Her parents were like so sweet, fly from Japan to look for her. Her purse is found, like, shortly after, but her body's not fine. And her, like, poor boyfriend is, like, suspected of the whole thing

and is, like, freaking out. They search for her. And at that point on August 16th, he cuts the power to an office building. And he goes in. There's one female alone in the office building. Holy fuck. I know.

He went full fucking Halloween. Yeah, don't work late is the fucking secret. Wow. This... I don't like this at all. No. She's not dead, though. Okay, okay, okay.

She's... It's his last victim. She's raped. He... He, like... He, like, fucking overcame her. And at one point, he hands her the knife that he has to hold while he, like, does his unbuttoned stuff.

Because he was getting... He was like, can you hold this while I take off my shirt? Yes. And she was like, okay. But the only reason she's alive is because she was, like, she went along with it. She didn't look in his face.

She didn't stab him with it? No. Okay. I know. It's bananas. The whole thing of, like, do you, like, fight for your life and do anything you can? Right.

Or do you, like, go along with it? Well, she made the right choice. But who knows what that would have been? It's so fucking insane to me. I can't. So... You can. He didn't harm her.

He... And I do, and I have insomnia. So... So this is how he gets caught is, like... So he... So that crime happens and then he leaves her and just leaves? He goes. Doesn't kill her.

Doesn't kill her. She's alive. And then on the news that they're, like... They keep playing his, recording up his voice over and over again and showing the note to, like, to see the handwriting, his Rusk's brother fucking hears it and sees it. From the handwriting? Yeah. From the...

He hears... He hears... The voice. The voice. And he's, like, I listened to it, like, ten times. I went in the other room and played it so I could, like, he just was, like, freaking out about it. Like, Rusky, mate.

That's what I said. Rusky. Yeah. But he was, like... But he knew his brother had, like, maybe molested his stepfather. But also, like, I have a cousin. Yeah. Uh-oh.

And if I heard this story, I'd be, like... Yeah. That... Like, like, there are people in your family who are, like, okay, I got my eye on you. Yeah. But the secret... The secret is it's never who you think it is, which makes me suspect everyone who I don't think it is.

But this guy is that, like, that guy who talks in the monotone voice and that weirdness, like, I literally have a cousin like this and I'm, like, okay. Right here. Yeah. You're... I wouldn't be surprised if they were, like, 40 bodies. I'd be, like, oh. Come on.

And his brother is, like, interviewed in one of these, like, ID shows and he's like a normal sweet dude and he's, like, I was out of town for a long time and then I came back and the news was playing this shit and I was, like, oh, fuck, like, he knows it's his brother. And then he sees the writing sample, he, like, goes to the police and brings, like, a letter that his brother had written him and they, like, matched it up. But this is only for the first murder. But fucking good for him because most... What?

No, but most people in a family would be, like, it's not him and convince themselves it's not him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would you turn your family member in if you thought it was them? Yeah. Oh, yeah, fuck yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

A fucking murderer? Yeah, I don't... You would. I would. Like Laura... I'll take this question. Yes, I absolutely would. All right.

Well, because here's the thing, when you... It's like what you're saying, we... I think everybody at least knows a person or has a relative or whatever where you're just like, it's just like there's something going on. So it's not like you'd be, you know, calling in all the time or whatever, but if there was something where it's, like, undeniable evidence A and undeniable evidence B and terrible result, you have to get those people off the street. And even if you do it and you turn them in and it's not them and it's fine, it's like

at least you tried something. Yeah, I mean, Christmas is weird, but that was hard. There's a lot to talk about, you know? I got you a really big gift. Freedom. Exoneration. All right. So he goes to...

They figure out it's him, they fucking arrest him, and while he's in prison, he confesses to a cellmate about Magumi's murder because he can't fucking... He needs to tell someone about it. Also he had her... This is the second woman, because he's convicted on the first woman because of her... Of the calls. The second woman, they didn't even know it was connected, and they... And he has her CD player in his cell.

In his cell? What? His cell. But no... I mean, I'm gonna... They... I need... What?

I suppose they let CD players into fucking prison ourselves. But now I'm like, it's a good idea, because he brought her possessions into his cell. And her parents were like, here's the receipt with the fucking number on it, and they were able to match it up. Yeah. Yeah. That's some good... Somebody did some good work there.

Seriously. Yeah. So they put her in a rubbish bin, and then they tracked the rubbish bin down. They figured out when that bin had gone to the dump, they... The cops fucking went through, like, bail by bail, till they found the area where she had been in the dump. So let's see, 11 days after they started searching, after 10,000 tons, but it's T-O-N-N-E-S, so I don't know if it's the same thing as tons.

Yeah. How many is that? I mean, if I... I was just going to tell you, but if I know correctly, that's about eight teaspoons. After all of that, under all that rubbish, they fucking find her. That's pretty fucking amazing. That's amazing. Because I feel like...

Not to disparage American cops, but I also think there's a financial aspect where they just go, all right, so they just... Yeah. Go ahead and not look in the garbage. Las Cas, yeah. No. Yeah. Totally.

They find her, all of this stuff, and he get... When they asked her why he killed her, he says, because I did. Mm-hmm. Piece of shit, clearly. He sentenced to two concurrent life sentences without parole. He pled guilty to the murders of both the women, Maya Jackick and Megumi Suzuki. He fell in applications seeking the imposition of a non-poral period for killing them, but everyone's like...

Everyone in Australia is like, fuck you, that's never going to happen. So he's in prison forever. Fuck him. Fuck him. A golf clap. Okay. When you did your last Australia story, did someone go, you got to know about this, Australian guy?

No. They didn't? No. I just... I have insomnia, and I search murders constantly. Maybe that's why you have insomnia. Oh, I'm sure it's not. Wait, what?

I never thought about that. No. Have you seen all the date lines? All of them. Are you in love with Keith Morrison? Oh, my God. Keith leans on things. Do you know this?

He really loves to lean. There's an Instagram called Keith leans on things, and it's just Keith Morris leaning on things. That's so badass. Like spring grabs. And then he came to the woman's house who made that Instagram, and they lean on each other. She's my hero.

My hero. You love it. That's pretty great. I don't know how we're doing on time. I think we get that light means stop it. Oh, that light means get the... I feel super dirty. I know, I know, I know.

You're apologizing again. Total. Yeah, and the last dollop we put up, there were approximately a million penguins turned into oil. What's this? Yeah, it's a story I did. And I took me two days to get over that. Oh, honey.

It might take me longer to get over this. Yeah. We exonerate you. Don't you feel good right now? No. Like you're doing good. You know what's funny is years ago, I was talking to Karen about comedy, and she was like...

She was like... Just... He just did a joke about child murder, and I just don't think it's funny, and I don't think people should talk about it. No. Not our Karen. Like people change, obviously. This one?

This is a lie. There is no way I said that ever. Yeah. Who was it? Ray James? Yeah. I was not mad about the child murder. This is not the Karen I know.

I was using that topic as an excuse to hate a person. It's what we do. It's what we do. I don't do it anymore. You don't have to either. Should we... Oh, we have so many shirts. What do we do about these shirts?

We're going to say goodbye, and then we're going to throw shirts at people. Oh, my God. Right? These are shirts by Michael Ramstead. These are amazing shirts. Thank you for sending us all your hometown murders. Please keep sending them in. We love them, and they fuel our minisodes, and they help us a lot.

And... Can I say thank you for coming to the podcast festival and supporting Miss Podcasts? Thank you. Because we... We booked these guys really early on when they started popping up, and I was like, I feel like something's happening here. And sure enough, a lot of people are fucking crazy. And now we want to have money.

My wife is a total murderer. I know. We've talked about it. She's all about the murders. I love it. It makes me so happy. I know. Thank you guys so much for fucking...

Oh, you guys are... Thank you so much. This is our first live show. This is so fucking exciting. It was really awesome. It was really awesome. Of many, of many. I hope so.

This is so great. Yes, and thank you, Dave Anthony, for being a great first guest. A perfect first guest. Yeah. And I guess now we tell you to stay sexy. And don't get murdered, but I have Elvis on the... Wait, hold on. Here we go.

Here we go. Here... Wait, do it again. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. This is what she tried to play for Gareth backstage. Thank you guys so much for being a great first guest. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye.