My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 37 - Liminal Space

Episode Date: October 7, 2016

This week on My Favorite Murder, Karen and Georgia discuss the murder of Peru's Ruth Thalia Sayas after her appearance on a game show, as well as the murderous reign of sweet little old lady Dorothea Puente in Sacramento, CA.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. Let's settle in. How do we look from this angle?

It's very odd. It's weird, right? We switched seats tonight. I think it's good for the liminal space, creative, upset. Wow. You know about that? No. There's this thing.

I can't, I talked about it. Oh, maybe it's on the other podcast, but I have seven podcasts. I'm sorry. You have another? Oh, I didn't tell you? We haven't discussed that. So let's cut. Cut.

Can we cut? There's a thing they call, it's the space that you get into when you're unsure or you're upset or like right after something shocking happens or whatever, it's they call it liminal space. And when you're in that place, your brain is working like a peak at top performance. So that's why like when they, it's good if you're a creative person, if you get too comfortable in anything or feel too secure, it's bad because then you can't, like the thoughts don't come the right way.

But if you, you know, like get into a thing, like that's why like sometimes in standup, when you're on stage, like, you know, you're going to open with a couple of jokes, but then you go into something new and weird because you can come up with something you didn't even know you were thinking of. That's cool. So as you're saying, stop going to the same cafe for me every day and ordering two scrambled eggs and a side of fruit and an Americano every single fucking day of my life. Well, I mean, are you writing somewhere near there or like, yes, yeah, I would, or you

could change, order something different or go to a different cafe. Just do something that will make you uncomfortable so that your brain works differently. I love it. I'm getting it. Getting out of the pattern. Okay. And that's what this is right now, Georgia. This of you and I looking at each other from a totally different perspective.

Yeah. We just switch couches. Everyone. Yeah. It's not that big of a deal actually. It is. Like from the very beginning. That's how we've done it.

So this is neat. I mean, episode 37. It's going to be all about like the brand new thing. Also now we're talking about the Bible. So open your, there's so much murder in the Bible. There really is. We should do a biblical episode. That would be, that would be so boring.

That would just put me back to like fucking grammar and high school like, ah, these stories again. I'm going to scream my story out. You should. I'm going to just, the whole story is going to be in caps at you. Like the angry is none in all of St. Francis Grammar school. Totally. Okay.

I was just thinking that this is our first episode back from the last episode was a live episode. Yes. Which is so awesome. It went really well. Right. It was, it went well, which on to, I can now tell you that I'm surprised. Yeah.

Because I was like, who the fuck knows what this is going to be? Like you and I sitting here talking about stuff. We know what that, with that amounts to, but like having people react in real time and whether or not they were going to, I mean, obviously if they were there, they were slightly on board. Yeah. Those people I'm not worried about. It's like, does it translate to like, I'm not going to be totally honest.

I don't fucking listen to live episodes of podcasts. No, I don't either. No way. I'm like, that, that doesn't, that doesn't translate. I'm not going to do that. I don't want to hear you like pointing at things and talking about them. Right. Or yeah.

Or just having a whole experience without me. Yeah. Because in these, it feels like when I listen to podcasts, I'm like, I'm there too. Yeah. I'm just, I'm just having fun of it. I think. Yeah. Yeah.

So yes. I, but I also, I was just nervous and I kind of was like, I don't know. I was just like, you're nervous about me because you've never seen me on stage before. No, I'm too much of a narcissist to be nervous about you. I mean, let's, I was like, you're on your own. Okay. Sick. Sinkers whim.

I got to get mine. You know what I think? What if we added Dave Anthony permanently to the podcast? Well, I, we probably shouldn't talk about this right now, but Dave, I did a show with Dave Anthony the other night and he was like, I think we should start doing like every three months. Oh my God. We all, we all do all our podcasts together.

That was like a, that was great. And also that was my sister's suggestion. Shut up. Which I swear to God, she's batting a thousand. She was like, Dave was so funny on your show. I don't think I add a lot to the dollop. I just like laughing at whatever the fuck Garrett says. You do though.

You do. It's a thing. Yeah. It's learning to elbow your way into comedy conversations. No way. It takes a, takes a while. That's scary. It's scary.

And also it's that thing of like, well, am I going to stop this? Is the thing I'm going to say going to be worth it to stop what's happening? Totally. It's a really hard thing to do. Interrupting people, especially people who are like, like fucking legit comedians that have been doing this for years and years is not my thing. Well, and also if you do it and it's like a, like a half-tepid response, it makes you never want to say anything again.

And you're like a stupid idiot. Yeah. When people would laugh, when I said something, I wanted to go hug and eat each and every one of them. So much. You guys don't understand how hard this is for me. But you did great. It didn't seem like you were having a hard time at all.

No, I had a lot of fun. I did feel bad. You just have to say fuck it once you're in the moment. Exactly. Well, and it's for fun. Those guys love you. They're so nice. Dave thinks you're fucking hilarious.

Oh my God, it's so nice. I can't remember saying that to my face, but I appreciate it. No, no, he can't. Okay. He's got emotional problems. Everyone go, the dollop live, their last one, where guests on it. So if you really fucking love the live episode, yeah, we were, that's how we warmed it up. That's how we heated it up.

That was nice. Um, yeah. So the live episode and that was awesome. It was super fun. And also we get to meet a bunch of people, which was very cool afterwards, which I have to say, I went backstage because I was like, I don't want to meet people. Like I don't. I don't think I'll be good at it.

I don't like the idea of it. And then I was standing back there and you were already talking to somebody and I'm like, what am I doing? Like that's not allowed. And then the second I walked out, whoever the first person I was, I talked to, I was just like, Hey, what's going on? And they were so regular and normal. It wasn't like I had to do anything.

It was just like having a nice conversation with a person that was happy. I've had years and years of experience of like talking to strangers because Ally and I do the like cocktail, like food thing and you go to these like cocktail parties and food parties and you have to fucking just talk to people and it's scary and hard. But the more you do it, the more you're just used to it and it's not a big deal. Yeah. Especially strangers. But what was I going to say?

I don't know. I guess this would be a good, oh, and the episode before that was the Jean Bonnet episode. So it wasn't like a regular format. That's right. So this is like the first time we've done a regular for like we're back for a long time. Yeah. From camp. That's right.

My legs are really tan. My legs don't tan. Only my arms. And I'm burnt on the back of my neck. It's weird. And I'm starting to wear this necklace all the time that I never wore before. You have a friendship bracelet. It's camp stuff.

It's camp stuff. It's good luck when it falls off on its own. You know, there's fucking bracelets of people. Yup. Oh, fuck you. That's Kabbalah. Oh. Fuck you Madonna.

No, I just mean like when you go to some party and like, and it's like sponsored by a company and they're like, put this bracelet on and when it falls off, your wish will come true. And I just like, it's falling off when I rip it off of my fucking arm. And always that stuff, that stuff always makes me want to go, yeah, well, since no wishes that I can think of, like stuff like this has ever come true, I don't need your bracelet. I'm sorry. Wishes aren't a thing. I'm sorry to tell you this.

I'm sorry to tell everyone. You know what? Karma and wishes are not true. Oh God. Everyone just hung up on the podcast. Like half the women just hung up on this book. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Mercury's in retrograde. What can I say? Wishes aren't true. I'm sorry. There's a, at work, there's a website called is mercury in retrograde and it either says yes or no. And we looked it up all the time because people are constantly making that joke. And then we're like, wait, let's just check and see if it really you actually know.

Yes. I just almost spit this drink out of my nostrils when you said that because it really is no because someone made that and I just love that. That's such a great. It's the best. I love when people make simple, hilarious, stupid things. Oh, so speaking of live shows. Yes.

We have two that we can plug right now. You guys, since that first one went good, now we're going to do more. Yeah. We're spreading our seed all over the country. We're spreading our DNA all over the country. That's right. Get ready to be impregnated by our live comedy. Let's see.

The first one that I'm like, it's cool because I feel like we should only pick places we want to go to. Yeah. That's a good idea. So sorry, Indianapolis. We're never just kidding. I've never been there. But it's amazing.

I'm totally kidding. They're like, no, that's again, we always talk shit on us. So the first one is that we're doing the Chicago podcast festival, which I've been so excited to announce this because I fucking love Chicago. And there's actually some people who knew and were like, I'm sorry, are you doing it or not? And they were like, they were all that way on Twitter about it. So we finally, we waited, we had to wait until it was for sure.

Yeah. You guys, there's legal shit that we have to. There's, oh my God, we have a team of attorneys. They're the ones from the accident day commercials up on the back of buses. They actually wait in my kitchen while we podcast and anytime something happens, it's like legally not okay. They like mention it, like pop their heads out. Yeah.

And they all look exactly the same. Yeah. Elvis hates them. So Chicago podcast festival, Saturday, November 19th, 10 p.m. in the Athenium, did I say that right? Main stage. You guys were doing a main stage. We're main stage act.

You know what I didn't think about at the, the LA podcast is like, I'm not good at numbers. So like I see that crowd and I'm like, oh, there's like a hundred people here. And then you were like, there was 450 people there. And I was like, no, there wasn't because I can't deal with it. Yeah. So this seat, this place holds 950 people. Sorry.

Should I not have told you that? I'm freaking out. Well, I would have found out anyway. I don't, I feel like I should tell our guy who books us, Joe is amazing. Don't tell us the number of seats in the auditorium because I can't fucking know exactly or see how many seats are empty. What if he's like, I did book you an Indianapolis and you're playing where the Colts play. There will be 30,000 people.

What do you think the most we're ever going to like perform in front of will be like in this lifetime with this podcast before we both, I think we may have peaked at 450 and then it's going straight back down. Yeah. I can't deal with numbers. This is a hundred people, like 150 people, right? Nope. Well, it was an intimate crowd.

Yeah. It was a good little like, it was like one of those like, coordination. It opened off wedding reception halls. It was like a very static electric carpeting type of room. Yeah. Like banquet chairs for all. So yes, we're Chicago. Get ready.

Yes. We're excited to come and see you. Oh, it's some Chicago podcast festival.org. .org. And then we're doing like our own, this is like the first, this is the first show we actually like put together ourselves. Yes. We even thought to do live shows.

Was the bell house? Yeah. Yeah. So we're also doing the bell house in Brooklyn on December 11th, right? It's a Sunday. It's a Sunday. Yeah. And, um, come and see us there if you live in Brooklyn and you like this and stuff like

that. Please do. I don't think that the L train is going to be shut down yet. So you can come in if you're from Manhattan. Did you see my like my knowledge of? Yeah. That was good. People that'll appeal to New Yorkers because they're going to be like, she's local.

Oh, she knows her shit. She knows her shit. The bellhouseny.com. And I think for all our shows, we're going to have a guest, right? Like, yes. Either way, we had time. Yeah. Like the way Dave did it.

We might have a guest in Chicago. We've been like told that it's possible. Oh yeah. That's like, I don't say it'll a rad secret surprise guest that I guarantee will make you happy. It's like, it's not like a comedian. It's like a human person. Yes.

It's not. It's not a alien. No, it's not a dog. Not a cat. Ellis is not coming. We should bring that painting that you gave me at the. We should bring it everywhere we go. There we go.

Yeah. So Chicago, New York T-shirt report, T-shirt report. We have to. Yeah. T-shirt report. Sorry, you guys. This is so much housekeeping. But it's been the first time back.

Do not. Do not apologize. God. I'm sorry. Okay. So if you guys want to see more murder shirts.com, it's happening. Kat Solin, our friend who's a director is a true kind of enthusiast, fucking talented as shit person.

I begged her to make us a new design for our shirts and she did it and they look freaking incredible. They look like an old like 1960s Pulp Fiction book cover and I'm so happy with them. They're really cool. We're going to keep posting new sayings and people can vote for what the sayings they wanted to be. Oh, did you know, did you see the, what they voted for? They voted for fuck politeness to be the next one.

Nice. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. I didn't know there was voting going on. I just fucking decided one.

Sweet. You went totally rogue. Sorry. Hot. I was going to pass it by. Of course. I don't please. Okay.

I mean, of all the things I've tried to care about, vote away. I feel like we talked about that a while ago, but I just didn't, I feel like I'm missing out on life. If there was any tone in that, it was not toward you. It was, I'm spending a lot of time and this is not a complaint because I love my job. But it's the kind of thing where every once in a while, like, I'll pick up my phone and look at email and I'll watch you talking to all these people where I'm just like, thank fucking God because I'm a controller for you can just deal with, like, I mean, just, I'm

very grateful for you. Thank you. You have a hard job. I can't wait to have you for myself again and you can go get tuna fucking melts at cafe 101. For real. It's been so long. I can pick your fries out and eat all your fries.

You can have all the fries. I can't eat fries anymore. Oh, yeah. Good. I can't wait until you're free again. I'm happy and I love your job and I'm so happy for you and it's great. Fuck. I'm lying.

I fucking want you for myself and I want my family to be the only thing that matters in your life. I mean, that would be nice. It will be. But it's also cool because it's, it's whatever. It's nice to have a job that actually takes up all my time and brain. But then it's, then there's things like that where just like, Oh, is that what's happening? Good.

Yeah. My dad has a job, but we miss daddy at home. Daddy wants to come home. That's what I'm saying. Um, okay. Jamie Lee has a podcast that we were on called the best of the worst and it's on iTunes. Jamie is from girl code. She's a hilarious standup comic and her and her husband, Dan Black do a show.

And it's awesome. But we, this was a while ago, so it's kind of like early days of this podcast. And we all talk, we talk about John Benet. Yeah. They're big. True crime freaks. I know one time Dan cornered me at a party, not cornered me, like talk to me at a, at his own party.

I was like, what do you think John Benet? Like, and I was like, well, this is great. Cause I don't want to talk to anyone else. And then we just talked about John Benet for a while and then we just did it on stage. It's perfect. The parties. Um, yeah. So they have, they record the show and it was super fun and, uh, um, there's also other

great people on it, um, Heather McDonald, who is from Chelsea lately and Astor Pavitsky's on it. I believe it all Margaret show and Margaret's on it. Right. Um, so that's a really good episode. So, uh, go listen to that. Yeah. Best of the worst.

And. Hey, let's take a quick P break and then get started. Great. Hey, I'm Mike Corey, the host of wonderies podcast against the odds in our next season, three mask men, hijack a school bus full of children in the sleepy farm town of Chow Chilla, California. They bury the children and their bus driver deep underground, planning to hold them for ransom.

Local police and the FBI marshal a search effort, but the trail quickly runs dry as the air supply for the trapped children dwindles, a pair of unlikely heroes emerges. Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. Is it? Oh, okay. Should we talk? No, not tow roses, not almonds, not roses.

Can you see the Virgin Mary? Let's. Yeah, she's right here. Okay. Can we record real quick? Okay. Uh, are you okay? I keep smelling maple syrup.

I took a nap. I woke up and I can't stop smelling maple syrup. Ooh. I mean, it's great, but it's freaking me out a little bit. Should we look up what that means online? Yeah. Wait, did you? What did I eat today?

Maple syrup. Is that like, um, I wonder if that's like a, a medicine thing. Are you taking medicine? That's weird that you say that because I went to an acupuncturist today for my back bullshit and she gave me some herbs, but they tasted like dirt and cow shit. Yeah. I don't think that that smells like maple syrup. I need to tell you, oh, what, oh, no, what did you look this up to?

Oh, no. What is it? Um, you're dying. The first thing I put in smelling m a and it said smelling maple syrup immediately. You're an angel. And this is the first thing that came up. Maple syrup urine disease is a rare inherited metabolic disorder. The body cannot break down a certain amino acids and individuals who have the disease

produce urine that has a distinct. Wish that were true. That's not it. That's absolutely not it. You're not smelling your own maple syrup pee. It's not pee. Um, yeah, then there's like cities that have smelled like it. What the fuck?

Uh, someone's sweat smells like it. Oh, I wish that were true. Have you had Chinese food because there's fenugreek, which is found in Chinese food. Oh, that's probably where the herbs are from. Chinese medicine. Oh, maybe fenugreek is in there. Oh, that's totally it. Oh, that's so cool.

Uh, also, they say it's a symptom of diabetes, but that's if you smell like it, not if you smell it. Um, if you have sweet breath, it smells like me. Oh, I absolutely don't have sweet pee smell or sweet breath smell or sweet sweat smell. It's just on, on Reddit, what it says, why do this has just came up as why do my wife's hands always smell like maple syrup? Oh, um, does she work at Denny's? Why does it always smell like artificial maple syrup?

Everything is smell like not smell. Okay. Well, that, oh wait, Yahoo answers, which always is a good animation and some good crazy like people who English is not their mother tongue. Why do I keep smelling maple syrup? Oh, this person says smelling and craving maple syrup. Here's the best answer. Sometimes we smell weird things.

I smell booger sometimes, if I have sinus issues, smelling vomit is weird. This is the best answer on Yahoo answers. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is, this is why I love the internet. This is the best of the internet. Chicken soup smells and tastes like vomit to me. Oh my God. This has been weird fucking corner with Karen and Georgia where we talk about our weird

ailment. Someone said, any chance you're pregnant? No, that's what the second one says. Are you fucking kidding me? But it doesn't have any upvotes, and it has one down vote. Am I pregnant? Guys, there's no way I'm a barren, fucking landscape of sadness and cactus and fucking double weed in my womb.

Oh, you would have a little snake, baby. It's a little bit of a snake. This isn't mine. I'm terrified of these things. That's been Weird Corner with Karen and Georgia. It's been the whole podcast. All right. Well, now that we got that settled to you and now you just have seven extra fears. Yeah. Perfect.

So let's see who went first four episodes ago. Oh, my God, I want to say I don't care. You want to go first? You want me to go first? Whatever you want. It's your choice. OK, I'm going to go. OK. Is that rude? No. All right. So this one, actually, speaking of Kat Solon, who made her shirts sign,

she sent this to me and I'd never heard of it. And it's like pretty bananas. OK. All right. So we start with 19 year old Ruth Talia Seyes. Seyes. Let me start over. We start with 19 year old Ruth Talia Seyes. She was raised on the outskirts of the capital in a working class area of Peru, so outside of a working class area of Peru.

And she was studying at a local university and she lived with her family, like normal girl, cute girl, regular 19 year old. On Saturday, July 12th, 2012, she was the very first contestant on the new reality show that was like a quiz show called El Valor de la verdad, which is translated to the value of the truth. Mm hmm. You knew that? I just wanted to guess because I

I've never taken Spanish. I mean, I know what Verdad means. So it's a new quiz reality quiz show that's just come to Peru. The show's premise is that a contestant is asked a series of personal questions, like during an interview, a private interview with a production company on the producers. Varying seriousness, the questions, and they're hooked up to a fucking polygraph. OK. So the contestant is later asked the same questions,

but in front of a crazy studio audience. And it's like, what's that, the money show? Do you want to be a millionaire? Who wants to be a millionaire? It's like that kind of seriousness level with lights and shit. So they're given their questions again and their answers are voted, like by the polygraph, whether they're true or not. OK.

So for each truthful response that they give, they win money. If they lie, according to the polygraph tests, they lose all the money they made. So they can keep going with questions. And if they're correct and they are not lying about them, they win money. And the questions get more and more personal as the show goes on. And the contestant has the option of calling it off after each answer. So if they've only won a certain amount, they can be like, and they've answered some really personal questions they've done.

So she's the very first contestant on this show, this little 19-year-old university student. And she went on because she wanted to open a salon and she had already saved a ton of money, but she needed the money from the show to bring her closer to buying that salon. And she was like, OK, making a spectacle of herself to get the money. So every contestant has to bring on three guests to the show who are sitting there being interviewed and filmed the whole time she's answering these personal questions. So she brings her parents. It's Leoncio and Vilma.

And they're like sweet baby angels. I watched it. And the dad said that he was afraid of what I might learn about my daughter when he was introduced. But they were all jovial. They were all like, this is going to be fun. We're going to win some money. No one thought it'd be that insane because they thought their daughter was like a normal human being. So the third guest was her boyfriend, Brian Liva.

He was a 20-year-old cab driver. He was raised down the road from Muftalia. And he'd stuttered since an old boyfriend of his mother had pushed him down the stairs when he was only eight. So he's just like this normal dude. He had stutter. The host says, you seem nervous. What are you so nervous about? And he said that she may have cheated on me.

And he was like a very stone-faced and like clearly nervous through the whole show. So here are the questions. Some of the questions she was asked. Have you ever skipped school without your mother's knowledge? If you found 1,000 souls, would you return them? Souls? It's like, it's their money. So she revealed that she didn't know.

1,000 wandering souls. Would you return them to their homes? She revealed she had a nose job and that she didn't like her body and that she wished she was white. And that she was only with her boyfriend Brian until someone better came along. The one that was there, the cab driver with the stutter? Yeah. And that she was ashamed of her parents' manners. And that she didn't actually work at a call center like they thought.

She danced at a nightclub. Oh shit, here we go. Here we go. So the mom is begging her to stop. And at one point, Brian says, I don't want to hear anymore. The boyfriend. So, okay, we're at question number 18. And she had one at this point with this question.

She would have won the equivalent of 15,000 US dollars, which is almost 10 months wages. Wait, no, no, no, I'm sorry. She could have won up to 15,000 US dollars at that point. She had won $5,300, which was almost 10 months wages in Lima with this question. She'll win this. The question number 18 was, have you ever accepted money for sex? And she answers yes. And the polygraph confirmed that it was true.

And she says just twice we needed money. We were in a bad situation. It hasn't happened since and it won't happen again. And her parents are like crying and like clearly shaken badly. It's fucked up, man. She said, so at that point, she was like, I'm done. I'm not going to win up to 15,000 US dollars. I can't do this anymore.

I mean, I wonder what the other questions were about was like, that was the one that was only 15 or $5,000. Yeah. What were the other questions? Who knows? She says, at the end, my mother, my father, my brother and sister are the most beautiful things in the world to me. I love them all with all my heart. Brian, forgive me for making you go through this. And as the credit rolls, she goes down on her knees before them and begs them for forgiveness.

Her parents. What the fuck? Yeah. Kind of game show is this. Yeah. So the show finally aired on Saturday, July 12th. A huge fucking hit like becomes number one and she becomes like kind of a celebrity in that world, but not like in a good way. She's just like talked about all the time and Brian, her boyfriend becomes a public fool.

And the Peru in Peru, like machoism is such a big thing. And he was humiliating for all these people and people, people in the small town recognize him and kind of humiliate him. And he's like fucking broken. Sorry, but did she get any of that money? Yeah. Okay. She got all the money. She won what she like at least got.

She stopped. So she stopped after that true question. Okay. So she was, she wasn't lying about having had money, had sex for money. So she stopped at basically our equivalent of $5,300. Okay. So he's being followed around by like by the media and being asked all these questions. Someone asked him how he felt about making, being made a fool and he said, I'm ashamed.

All the things I learned on that show, how would you feel? And the news person said, but they say that if you love someone, you can forgive them. And he says, depends on what they did. The things she said that day, I can't forgive. But then in other interviews, he says that it had all been a setup that he and Ruth tell you had broken up months before the taping. And she had asked him to pretend to be her boyfriend on TV and that she'd share the money with him. And he hadn't given her any of the money. So it sounds like he's making the shit up to make himself sound a little bit better.

Right. Cause he's so fucking humiliated. Yeah. Eight weeks after the premiere of the show on September 11th, 2012, Ruth Talia disappears. So crazy media circus. All the news programs covered it in Lima. But one of the hosts called her the prostitute of El Valor de la Verdad. Like she was known as like a whore and nobody cared about it because of that.

And their parents had to like beg to get me the attention and get this covered and to try to find their daughter. 11 days after the disappearance, police find a body of a young woman buried in a well and covered by rocks and concrete on a piece of land on the outskirts of Lima. And that land belongs to Brian's uncle. So later that day, this is so fucked up in this video of this. So the media and the family, the mother, I'm sorry, the father and the sister are at the site where they're excavating, trying to figure out if it's their, their sister and daughter. And the dad is on the phone on the cell phone, like crying and it's awful. And it turns out that it is her. She's just like losing it.

And if you're sensitive, you shouldn't watch him break the fuck down. Then a reporter and her cameraman go to the home where Vilma, the mother is sitting vigil with some of her friends and doesn't yet know that it was her daughter that was found. And the reporter says she gave her her condolences and realized she didn't know about it. And then the reporter said, ma'am, they found your girl. So this fucking reporter told her, which is so ugly. So Brian's brought in for questioning and he confesses. He says that he called Ruth Talia as she was leaving school and they made plans to meet up. He says, I waited for her by the bridge.

She got into my motor taxi and I said, let's go have some wine. She says, okay. And they went to his house, his apartment that he rented. And they had sex and then afterwards they started to fight. And she says, she tells me, I don't know what I'm going, what I'm doing with a poor motor taxi driver. And he says, that's when I grabbed her by the throat and that he admitted that he choked her for 30 seconds or more. And he says, I thought she had passed out. I listened to her heart.

I didn't hear anything. I grabbed her and shook her, but nothing. I got scared. And during the trial, Brian's lawyer tried to pin the blame on the TV show saying that they had humiliated him. And so Beto Ortiz, who's one of the most famous television journalists there, they called him to testify. So it was later found that the majority of his confession was false. And there was a witness who was a young boy from the neighborhood and he said that the night she disappeared, Brian had paid him 50 souls to let him know when Ruth Talia got off the bus.

And he said he had seen Brian. Another man forced her into his motor taxi. And the court determined that Brian's accomplice was his uncle who owned the property where her body was found. And the motive was robbery. And they had tried to get Ruth Talia's bank security code so that they can get the winnings from the show for themselves. And they were both sentenced to life in prison. So then the second season of El Valor de la Verdad was they only had celebrity contestants because they said they can deal with the media. Which is like, how could you even have a fucking second season?

But at least that's that. And oh, I wanted to say that a lot of this information and it's really hard to find information. I mean, there's no, this isn't like a story I've ever heard about before. The California Sunday magazine by Daniel Alar Alar Khan. He wrote this really great story about it. And that's where I got a lot of this information and then all over the internet as well. That is fucking crazy. The idea, the idea that that show continued on after the first contestant was murdered.

I mean, that's intense. I remember when Jenny Jones, the Jenny Jones show that a lot of young people won't remember was like one of those like 90s talk shows. Like Jerry Springer had on like, it was like a confession episode of I'm in love with you. And a guy brought on his friend and told the sky that he was gay and he was in love with him. And the guy he told shot and killed him. Yes, I do know that story because my old boss was one of the EPs on that show and had to go to court. That was like a huge scandal at telepictures. Heartbreaking.

The company for that. No, it was horrible. And it's that kind of thing of like, what's the line when you're producing TV? Everything is two numbers who butts and seats, eyes on screens. How do you do a show that's going to make people watch it? And especially in those days of like the early days of Springer and Jenny Jones, all that shit. Let's just keep going with this. But also, why did they have a hit?

Oh, they had a hit because it's a girl who is exposed that it wasn't hit. That's not the baby daddy and blah, blah, blah. Now they're in a fist fight and all that shit. And like that was the norm. So like you had to, you had, they were trying to think of shows and produce shows that were exploiting the most exploitative. And scandalous. The article they got a lot of this like basic information from was really interesting. So the show that this, the article that this is from where they talk a lot about the actual show and how much it had to do with it.

And what like about reality shows in Peru was called The Contestant from California Sunday Magazine. And so they talk a lot about that. And it's just like, I mean, who, who would agree to say those things, but if you're in a poor fucking city and you need money, I mean, you'll do anything. Exactly. It's total exploitation of people. And also that is such an ugly version. I think there was an American version of that show and it wasn't on for very long. I didn't know that.

Because you can't be the nature of a show like that is, is scandal. So like if people are admitting things that no one gives a shit about and no one wants to talk about and that aren't, that isn't like borderline, then you don't have a good show. And they're not going to find someone who's like, no, I've never had, never got paid for sex. Nope, I work in this place. You know, they find the most desperate. Yes, they are only going to have people on there that are going to tell them what they want to hear and, and more so. The one of the weirdest things that I ever experienced in working in television is there is this very strange subset of people. And if you work in casting in like any kind of reality version of television, you know, there are people who try to get on every single show.

And they're not, it's like, if it's a show about couples, they'll submit for that. If it's a show about, you know, whatever the fuck it is, they want to, they want to be on TV. Matchmaking or whatever the fuck they'll do. Yeah. And they'll try to, like they know TV well enough to know that they have to be interesting and certain personality types. And, and because it's a, it is a good way to make money if you, you know, if you're the right person. But obviously, Don't you just get one chance?

Yeah, you would think. But I mean, these are people that are just like, well, we'll go over here. Well, we'll try to be on the amazing race. Well, we'll try to be on the marriage ref. Well, we try to be on this. And that's what happened when I worked on the second season, the marriage ref. There was this one tape where they were like, brought us down to casting because they're like, you're never going to believe what you're about to see. And it's like this weird couple that like, it's, there's sexual overtones who are like, this is, they don't know that this isn't appropriate.

That like, this isn't going to get them. It's just this weird shit. And one of the people in that casting department was like, oh yeah, we had them, they tried to be on whatever show she had worked on before. Wow. And it's just like these people that are kind of like, we know we're kind of interesting and kind of weirdos and that that works. Yeah, we're very different and we're wild. And let's get on fucking television. People just want to get on television.

Do you see that the real world this season is like, everyone thinks they're just going on the real world. But for each, each person on the real world, they find their like enemy and they have to live in the house too. And it's like, this show is interesting enough. If you cast it well, these people are just going to make their own fucking. But then you come back and say, because no one's watching TV anymore, so they don't have good ratings. So it's not interesting enough to make a ratings hit. And that's all anybody cares about. And because all of television is owned by like four companies, they have this insane grasp on the money, who gets the money.

The story is like, nobody has any money, but that's actually not true. They're making millions of dollars because even in like a depression, people still watch TV, people still, you know, advertising still works. But it's like, it's this, it's really sick and crazy. That kind of shit where you like that thing where you're watching TV and you're just like, I don't feel like who I'm seeing is what I'm really seeing. So the idea that your story is about a person who actually did the thing and suffered by it. But she, I don't know if she felt, it didn't seem like she was, I mean, I guess she, she was kind of embarrassed and stayed at home a lot. But it's like, she didn't seem like she was, she seemed like confident about having done it for the right reason, for the reason which was to make her life better. Even though she like, you know, tore her family apart. Well, you'd think that that, that makes your life way worse.

Yeah. Also being murdered. Yeah. I mean, because that shame, shame is the thing people can't deal with. Oh, Jesus. No. Shaming people, especially like you were saying, like, like that culture where men have to be men, you can't come out and be like, Yeah.

Yeah, sometimes I do this, which is like, you know, Yeah. not in a judgmental way of that person's lifestyle, but this is like a cultural thing of where women are supposed to be like wives and mothers and especially here and in Peru, I feel like it's, you're not supposed to. That's not, it's like so much less accepted and understood than it is here as it is here. Crazy. Crazy, right. I mean,

That's the thing too, when you were saying like, you should, you should watch it because he's all upset or whatever. I would never watch that. No, it bothered me a lot. I never watched that. It's the fact that the cops didn't keep him away from the, from the cameras is upsetting. Like his daughter, his other daughter tries to shield his face a couple of times, but there's nowhere to turn. Like there's cameras on every, on every single angle of this man telling someone on the other line that they found his daughter. Horrified.

There's nowhere for him to go to get out of the fucking, out of the camera. That's disgusting. It's really sick and sad. And then the woman who told the mother inadvertently. The reporter. Yeah, the reporter. She quit doing news after that. Wow.

Yeah. There's a thing in this article. She fucked up someone's life. Yeah. Like to get that story. We're like, go talk to her now, go up to the room after she started crying and trying to get a conversation with her. And she, and there's like some quotes in her from, in this article. It's like, how awful she felt and that she quit.

Yeah. Oh, that's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to sell your soul for one paycheck. Uh-uh. One byline. Okay.

You ready for your murder? Uh, yes. It's the same one? Uh, yeah. Turns out. Mine is the, um, a shit. I can't think of the, what's the Howie Mandel show with all the suitcases? What?

Ugh. Suitcase number seven. What's that one? I don't think so. I don't think so either. I was going to try to make a joke about that, but. I can't remember what it's called. I can't remember it's called and I don't care.

What's in the suitcase? What's in the suitcase? You know that show? What's in the suitcase? All right. So I picked, um, my story this week. Actually, my sister suggested this. Our number one fan.

Our newest and number oneist fan. Um, and she suggested it because when I was in high school, when I graduated from high school, she had gone to the JC for two years. So by the time I was ready to go to college, she was too. And so we both went to Sac State, which is Sacramento State University. It was precious. Um, uh, so we both lived, moved to and lived in Sacramento for like the same amount of time.

We talked massive shit about Sacramento on this podcast. Wonderful things happen there, but not to me. Um, and so near the end of right before I moved back home with my parents, um, as a abject failure, uh, in my early twenties, I lived in this house on F street and it was in this weird, like Sacramento is weird because as you go downtown closer to the capital, it's like all the old houses and old Victorians and stuff. And some of the streets are really gorgeous, but the neighborhood itself is really bad. And it's a very strange combination because it doesn't look like it should be bad.

But then there's like one night in this apartment across the street, there was an empty lot that people would just dump garbage in and two homeless people got into a fight and one of them was beating the other one with a vacuum cleaner that someone had dumped in this empty lot. Oh my God. That kind of area. And it was a horrible time in my life cause I had flunked out of college. I think I worked at like two different cafes, so I was making like $5 an hour and you like

you couldn't get any hours. So you're just like always just scraping together money. I remember at one point we would, we would rent a VCR from the video store when I was a kid too. Yeah. Cause we didn't have one. But we'd be like, I want to watch a movie. Um, it was like just dark.

And then it was also summertime in Sacramento, so it's always 110 degrees. So everything's just awful in a special way. Also at the time, um, the person I was a roommate roommates with, um, she, she had this friend, I think she was from high school and together they were two of the most annoying people. Like I, I'm surprised I didn't try to punch one of them because it was like this obnoxious like, like hard girl act, but like, but it was like the, the Sacramento version. So there's a country element to it and it was really like just kind of ignorant and rude.

The kind of girls that are like, I don't get along with other girls. Exactly. Yeah. I only let guys or it's like, well then go fucking hang out with some guys and get away from me. Um, there was, yeah, it was a lot of that kind of stuff or like they'd come home at four in the morning from a club and like knock on the door and be like, let me in. It was just everything was, I was livid.

I was either livid or scared to death all the time. Oh my God. So it turns out, come to find out living in this apartment for a little while that somebody who came over, put it together and goes, don't you realize that that is Dorth, two doors down is Dorothea Puente's house. Who's Dorothea Puente? Well, Dorothea Puente is the old lady in Sacramento that got caught. She ran a boarding house for old people and like handicapped people.

And it turned out that she had been murdering them, taking their social security check, taking it across the street to the dive bar that was so scary, we never even tried to go there. Holy shit. Who doesn't go to a dive bar? Especially a couple of drunks like us would have been in there in a second. Those dive bars that you're like, oh, this isn't a quaint dive bar. This is a bit of a white slavery me.

This is bad news, serious bad news. It might as well be on the docks, but somehow it's to cross the street from our apartment. Is it still there? I don't know. Oh my God. I doubt it is though, because I bet you with the way that architecture was, they probably gentrified that whole area, I would think. But it was like a scary, it was very scary area.

So Dorothea Puente is basically, I'll tell you, so here's her story. Let's hear it. She had a very sad childhood when she was eight, her father died of tuberculosis and the next year her mother died in a car crash. Fuck, those are like two of the worst ways to die. So she was in an orphanage for a little while and then eventually she had to go live with family members in Fresno. Oh no.

It just gets sad. That's one of the worst places to live. I mean, so in 1945, when she was 16, she got married for the first time. So she had between 1946 and 1948, she had two daughters, one she went sent to live with relatives in Sacramento and the other one she'd go up for adoption. So she was not able to deal with any kind of family situation at all and I think she definitely has some kind of mental disorder as you will see. So I'm sure she probably had it then, being a 16-year-old newlywed mother.

Yeah, who had grown up in an orphanage. Not good. Who had two huge traumatic experiences when she was young with her parents dying. Back to back. Back to back. So. Yeah, fucked. That husband that married her when she was 16 left her and left her in 1948 like a couple

years later, so she started telling people he died of cancer. So oh no, sorry, died of a heart attack a couple days after they got married. So it was like even more tragic for her. So she's also in throughout this, it's like she's basically a compulsive liar. And she started forging checks, which she ends up doing throughout her life. That's kind of her forte. That's her favorite. That's her favorite crime.

Such a weird crime. It's super weird. And the funny thing is that you get caught and then you get sentenced for like a couple years and you get out because it's nonviolent. And it's, I don't know, maybe it's kind of arty. So they're like, no, all right. It's such a weird thing. You paid your dues.

Like you hear about so many people who are like, they never had a violent offense. They just forged checks. And it's like, well, that's, I wouldn't ever think to do that. It's still a crime. I mean, you might have great penmanship and all, but you're still a criminal. In 1960, she based, and then she remarried a Swede named Axel Johansson, which you know that that was a party waiting to happen. Of course, a violent alcoholic.

They were married for 14 years and then they ended it. And then eight years later, sorry, during that marriage, two years before she got divorced, she was arrested in a brothel and she told the cops that she was there visiting her. Your friend. Uh-huh. Um, we don't know what is true about that. One of the articles I read said that she ran the brothel, but, um, it seems more likely since, uh, she only, she was arrested and served 90 days.

I think she was probably just there, um, either visiting her friend or visiting some friends, whatever you might do. You're running a brothel ain't an easy task. That's a big job. And you don't just, you don't just bail. No. You just arrest. So what she ended up doing is going into, she became a nurse's aide and she started

caring for the disabled and the elder, elderly and private homes. So she turned her life around. Well, you would like to think that one. End of story. Yeah. End of story. Um, so in 1982, so she did that for a while in 1982, her 61 year old friend and business partner, Ruth Monroe, um, who was living in, so Dorothea had this house on F street is

this big Victorian. Two doors down from Karen, two doors down from the future, um, miserable home of miserable Karen Kulgarov. Um, so there was an upstairs apartment that she would rent out. So she rented it out to Ruth Monroe and they were business partners, which I guess means that they were working together, taking care of old people and disabled people and private homes. Okay.

Um, but Ruth died from an overdose of codeine, codeine and acetaminophen. Um, and Dorothea told the police that Ruth was very depressed because her husband was terminally ill. So they ruled ruled Ruth's death a suicide. Um, but then a few weeks later, the police had to come back because a 74 year old pensioner named Malcolm Mackenzie had accused Dorothea of drugging and stealing from him. So he had gone to the police and said that he had met Dorothea at a local bar called the zebra club and that they had several drinks together, which I bet that means in the 15s.

Um, then he invites her back to his apartment and soon after they arrive, he gets dizzy and even though he's conscious, he can't move and he has to sit and watch as she searched his house for valuables, takes his rare penny collection and forces the diamond ring off his finger. Rare penny. Can we go back to rare penny collection? I mean, fucking cool. That is.

Yeah. You know, it was like, you know, cardboard book like this with all the years underneath the slots. That makes me happy. Um, but well, so she gets convicted of three charges of theft in on August 18th of 1982 and she gets sentenced to five years in jail for, for that. Wow. Um, what happened to the rare penny collection?

We haven't been able to trace it. So we're starting a foundation called find the rare pennies dot gov dot org. Um, so she's in jail and she starts being pen pals with a retiree, a 77 year old retiree named Everson Gilmouth and they become friends through the mail. Um, and when she's released in 1985, after only serving three years, um, he was there waiting for her to pick her up from jail in his 1980 red Ford pickup and everything was okay. And everything turned great.

Um, so soon they were making wedding plans and, um, they opened a joint bank account. Nope. And, uh, they were, they were back in her house in Sacramento. Um, now we're cutting to five years later, Dorothea hires a handyman to come and put in some wood paneling in our apartment. And for that work, plus he paid her an additional $800. Uh, she gave him a red 1988 1984 pickup that was in good condition, almost totally not used.

Um, which she said had belonged to her ex-boyfriend who lived in Los Angeles. Yeah. Where'd she get that? Um, so she asks this handyman that she hires to build her a six by three by two foot box for her to store, you know, books and stuff as you do in a fucking coffin, a box, a box that you want to store stuff in. Um, and then she asks them when she fills it with her books, I'm doing air quotes. You can't see.

Um, she says. So I please take this to my storage depot and he agrees and she goes with him and then on the way, she has him pull over and just has him dump it on a river bank at a kind of unofficial dump site, which it sounds unlikely, but again, we did have an unofficial dump site across from our apartment where you put coffin shaped boxes, you know, or, or beat another person with a vacuum cleaner, whatever needs to happen. Um, so that a lot of dumping going on up in Sacramento and Sutter County. Shit.

So, um, so they dumped that, uh, and, um, oh, she just told him the stuff in the box was junk. Well, on January 1st, 1986, a fisherman spots the box, um, and it's sitting three feet from the bank of the river. So he calls the police and they open the box and find a badly decomposed, unidentified, a viable body of an elderly man inside. Um, well, it turns out that Dorothea was still collecting ever since Gilmouth's pension and she would write letters to his family explaining that, um, he hadn't contacted them

because he was ill. And, um, so he was basically one of her first victims. Um, now this was now a, uh, she was renting this apartment all the time. This was her business and she had 40 new tenants in, in the house, in the whole house. Um, uh, she was actually approached by a social worker named Peggy Nickerson. Um, uh, she approached the social worker and just explained to her just so you know, if people on fixed incomes, people on social security, elderly people, um, you can, they can come and stay in my boarding house.

Everyone's welcome. Yeah. Cause she had the best system to offer. Her prices were really low and she took quote unquote, took care of the people that work that lived there. Cause people are nice. She made dinner every night. She had everybody come down and sit at dinner together.

Um, you know, she like made sure there were people that stayed there that were homeless or like had mental problems. She made sure they showered and clipped their nails and, you know, it was real. Like it was real. That'd be so beautiful. I mean, yeah. Right. That's the, that's the whole lure of it is people need that kind of care.

And she's saying that she's, um, going to be able to provide that for them. Uh, so sorry, I keep making that mistake. Um, so she, uh, she also, she was known for taking tough cases. Like all the social workers were like you, if it's a person that can't get placed anywhere, you can take them to Dorothea's. She will take them in. Um, and she collected their monthly mail. Um, before they saw it, she paid them in stipends and then she pocketed the rest of their like

social security check or whatever their check was for expenses, quote, unquote, you got a fucking steam. So parole agents, uh, would go to visit her, um, and she had been ordered to stay away from the elderly and to refrain from handling government checks. Oh my God. Um, uh, but no violations were ever noted and they think it's because she was known in the like social welfare circles as being so good that they would go in and check and be like, you can't be around old people.

You can't stay away from security checks, but nothing official would ever go in. Yeah. Well, in May of 1988, neighbors started complaining of a sickly sweet smell. Oh, maybe that's what's on my fingers. Oh, it's, oh, that's right. It's the dead bodies you've been hiding. Maybe I'm decomposing. Um, so she blamed the aroma on applications of fish emulsion on her, on her perfectly

tended lawn and tended to the point where if people walked on her lawn, she would scream at them and swear like a sailor. Um, so she was very protective of her lawn and she did a lot of gardening. Um, so, so there was a man that stayed at the house and people around the neighborhood knew him as chief. He was schizophrenic and he was an alcoholic and he was homeless. He went and stayed with Dorothea, um, she made him her handyman and she cleaned him all up, made sure that he took a shower all the time, like made him presentable, made

him come and eat dinner with everybody, um, made him take his, his anti-psychotic medication or his meds. Um, so she had him digging in the basement and carting soil and rubbish away with a wheel barrel and, um, he basically, there was a concrete slab on her basement floor. He was basically digging up the basement floor. Um, what do you need it for, so he, uh, soon afterwards disappeared and, um, so when, uh, there was an, a second, uh, tenant disappeared, a, a developmentally disabled man who had schizophrenia when his social worker reported him missing.

His name was Alberta Montoya, um, the police came and realized this is this, this keeps happening here. So they were looking around and they noticed in the backyard that was, there was some ground that was, had been recently disturbed. So these investigators went to the car, got this shovels that were in their car and they started digging and quickly turned up what looked like shreds of cloth and beef jerky. Oh God. Is the report.

Ew. Um, and so as they're trying to dig and find out what's under there, um, one of the investigators said that he thought that he hit a tree root and so he was whacking at it and jabbing at it with his shovel and it wouldn't move. Uh, so he decides to climb down into the hole where that they had dug up to get, to pull it out. And he wrapped his hands around it, braced himself, started pulling and it broke loose and it was a leg bone out of the sock.

They had to, they had to suspect that at that point or they wouldn't have been digging. Right? Yes. So why are you fucking yanking? He thought it was a tree root. Come on though. Like you're looking for bodies. If it's, well, but I mean they're looking, but a tree root is the most likely thing that's

going to be there. Okay. So if the, I'm sure that they'd done stuff like that before and it's like, yeah, I mean that, that would be there. Get this out of the way. 20% of the time. But most of the time it's that. Okay.

Um, and also I think when bodies that aren't, that are buried just straight into the ground, they turn black and brown, so it would have probably looked like a tree root too. So then they start digging up her whole backyard and, uh, oh, she came out when he was down in the hole and he had this bone. She came out and when they turned around, they were like, we just found a human bone. She did. They said they, she did this thing where she slapped her hands on her face, like really over the top and in like trying to act like she was surprised and they immediately were

like, there's something going on, like that's the weirdest, like straight up homolone style. Homolone style. Exactly. That's where they got that from. Um, and apparently neighbors said that she always talked about wanting to be an actress and planning on moving to Los Angeles. She's a bad actress. I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. She needed to take some classes. So this body that they eventually, um, dug up was, uh, a woman named Leona Carpenter who was 78 years old and one of her very Dorothy is very first victims that stayed in that house. Um, they basically had the coroner's office came in with heavy machinery and a whole work crew and just started and friends like anthropologists and started digging up this entire backyard.

And that I've seen the news footage that's basically taken from the angle of, um, because it couldn't get in. Yeah. So it's basically taken from our back porch. Holy shit. I mean, not literally, I don't know, because it was 1988, but they, they shot it over the fence and you see these cops walking around and it's just like the, you see a lot of sheets and like the, um, when they put out the string and the stakes, you know, like this will be

the next area. Oh my God. It's so crazy. I want to see it. So since Dorothea Puentes wasn't immediately Puentes singular, wasn't immediately a suspect. Um, she, I mean, like they didn't, when they were just, they were just, they were just doing that first digging. It wasn't like keep her right there.

So she said she was going to go get a cup of coffee at the hotel up the street while they were doing that. And then she fucking hightails it to Los Angeles. Well now they know it's you dude. Uh, yeah. But she, I mean, she left. So she thought she was out of there and she, and she didn't think they were onto her the way that they were.

So when she gets to Los Angeles, she goes to a bar and she starts making friends with an old pensioner who's sitting at the bar. She introduced herself as, I think it was Donna Johansson. What bar do we know? Uh, it didn't. Oh God, I wish. Oh great. The articles I read didn't say.

It's gotta be something that we know. Something divey, maybe the frolic room. Frolic room first. That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah. Uh, but luckily this old pensioner probably been sitting at the bar watching the news a bunch. For 50 years.

Recognized her from the news and called the cops. So they got her down in LA and brought her back up. Um, eventually seven bodies were found buried in her backyard. Wow. Um, she was charged with a total of nine murders because they, uh, they, um, traced back the apparent, the apparent suicide of her old, of Ruth Monroe. And then, uh, the other guy. The other, uh, the missing guy chief.

Oh man. Do you think that grandpa, the grandpa, the frolic room got a reward? I don't know. I bet he did. Um, here's what's interesting. When detectives were in that backyard, they realized that they were only blocks away from the home of serial killer Morris Solomon where they had dug up from that house a bunch of dead bodies in 1987.

Who's he? I don't know him. I've never heard of him either. Whoa. And Sacramento, I just got to say, I mean, like, I talked about it. I've complained about it, but like, I must be a little bit right because we've already had, I think four serial killers from Sacramento on this show. It's chock full of murders.

It's netto. Um, so basically at the end of the day, she went to trial in February 1993. She was convicted of three murders sentenced to two life sentences, received life without the possibility of parole. She went to Chow Chilla, the ladies facility. She always said that all of those people died of natural causes and she just buried them there, um, and, uh, that she herself at age 82, um, March 27th, 2011 died of natural causes in prison.

Wow. Yeah. That's our girl girl, Dorothea. That's our hometown girl. She would take their checks, walk across the street to that dive bar and get her money. The cash checks at dive bars. They cash checks at their certain bars that are so divey, they will cash your social security check for you.

Like they're like second Friday of every month is like you, you gotta get a couple bartenders on staff. That's right. Because well, and also it's Sacramento, like literally the state capital was blocks away. So they know they're getting their money. If it's a government check, they know that thing is good. So they don't, if it's that little old lady that runs the boarding house, of course they're going to do her favor.

She brings everyone over and she takes her portion and then she, she's so nice. She's taken care of all those people inside that building. Oh my God, what did it smell like in that fucking building? Oh, in that dive bar too. I mean, the whole block smelled. I thought it was carpeted. That house? No, the dive bar.

Oh yes, for sure. Like dark maroon. Yeah. Like thin dark maroon, like bowling alley carpet. I bet they had like a, it was a pretty small and they had a pool table that was too close to one wall. So then they had to cut a pool queue in half so that you, so that you could shoot from that side of the table.

Is that what they do? I've never seen that. I've seen it in dive bars. I guess I have not been in like real dive bars then. You got to become a full-blown alcoholic. It is so fun. I went to one full-blown like real, real dive bar in Savannah, Georgia, but like on the outskirts of it.

And I was like, oh, this isn't an charming LA dive bar. There's a Confederate flag on the wall and I'm the only Jew who's ever been in here. They should have taken your picture and put it up behind the bar. That was terrifying. Wow. Yeah. It's so sad. I mean, it's crazy.

And when you sit, when you saw her on the news, like she was on the news all the time. I don't want to see her picture. I totally remember it. She looks like a cartoon of a little old lady. No, like not even. Big glasses. She's really short, gray hair, the whole thing. You would never think.

How did she kill everyone? Just, she just poisoned them or drugged them? Poisoned. I mean, I think so. Wow. Yeah. Oh man. Wow.

That's fucked up. Pretty fucked up. Okay. So now we're ending the show on, we're ending on our positive now. That's right. One really great thing that happened to us this past week. Right. Right.

So, do you have yours? Do you have yours? Sure. A really great thing is that I hung out Sunday evening with a girlfriend that I like a lot and we've gotten to know each other a lot, but we like had this great, deep conversation. Like we hang out with a lot of people together, her name's Crystal, but she and I sat at a bar and just fucking talked and we're like, I'm not very happy. And just like, we're very open with each other in a way that's like hard to find when you're

an adult is someone to like be really open with and, and just, you know, who understands you and you guys can get each other and that's, that's hard to do. And we just had this really great conversation and I felt a lot better after it and kind of feel like I've made a friend. Oh, nice. For a long time, it's like kind of a deeper connection and it was nice. That's great. Yeah.

That's very good. It's all that matters. Yeah. They say in human connection is really it's nothing else makes people actually happy except for connecting with other human beings. Really? Yeah. Bullshit.

Um, I guess mine is that I don't, well, I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about that because it's, it sucks because all I've been doing is working, so all, most of mine are a work based, which is a little bit lame, but well, you know what, I'll, I can, you're proud of yourself. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah.

You just can't. Um, but I mean, it's like when you have one thing to talk about where it's people like, Hey, what's up with you? It's like, just don't bother asking it doesn't matter. But there's a guy that's a guest star. I guess I just won't say his name and then when, when the show is actually on, I can say it, but, um, he's on my episode and he's so funny. It's like the most delightful thing in the world.

I mean, everybody on the show is really good and I'm very excited for this show to come out because I think people aren't really going to like it, but this one guy is hilarious and he looks like the guy that I adored in high school. So it makes it even more fun to watch him because it's like, it almost looks like a weird Nick at like a mashup. Like you're rooting for him already because yes. But then on top of that, it's the kind of thing where you can't, it's like single camera, like you can't laugh out loud when things are happening because they need like perfect

quiet and I have to keep my hand over my mouth. He's so funny. Wow. And that's the shit you've written too. Yeah. Some of it. Yeah. I mean, some of it, but, um, but at one point I went up, I had to finally introduce myself

because I was actually, he was so funny that I was nervous to, I didn't want to be like, Hey, what's up on the road or whatever. I was just kind of like trying to stay away and when I finally did go up to introduce myself, I said, I, in my head, I thought I was going to say, you know, like you're great or today's been so great or something like that. But what came out was you're being so funny. And the second, the last word of that sentence came out of my mouth. I just turned and walked away.

Cause I was just like, I, hopefully I just won't have to talk to him anymore. Can I wait till this cuts and I get to find out who it is? Yes. It's, I mean, it's a, some people may have seen him before, but it's not, he's not well know. Okay. I don't feel like I'm not telling you until it airs either. You won't tell me.

Yeah. We'll keep it a huge secret until next spring because it's a mid-season replacement. Um, well, thanks for listening, you guys. This is, oh, we never introduced what the show was. This is no one knows. Oh, that's too bad. This is my favorite murder. What the fuck with Mark Maron?

Thanks for listening. I'm Maron. Um, go to Twitter, my favorite murder, Instagram, my favorite murder. We're on Facebook at, uh, MFM podcast, our shirts, my favorite murder shirts.com, everything. Thank you so much for listening and supporting and being active involved people. We love it. It's very fun. You guys are the best.

And this is so great. Um, stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Want a cookie? Awesome. Yes. Yes.

Thank you so much for listening and supporting MFM podcast.