My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 43 - In Arrears

Episode Date: November 17, 2016

This week on My Favorite Murder, Karen and Georgia talk with their mouths about a tragic murder/suicide at the International Dunes Hotel and the still-unsolved Chicago Tylenol poisonings.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Let's start a punk band. Okay. Hey. What should the name of it be? Hardkill. Um, okay. All right. All right. Bye. Uh, welcome to my favorite murder. My name's Karen Kulgarov. That's Georgia Hardstart. Hi. We're here to talk about true crime, murders and how it feels to be alive in late 2016. Georgia, what are your thoughts? Let's fucking get into... No, I don't know. Do you really want to ask me that question, dude? Let's go to the phones. When you say late 2016, it makes me think that someday

this will be like a time capsule of someone and I feel like I'm talking with my mouth. You know that like... You are talking with your mouth. The whole thing. No, I just ate a bite of something and I have that like weird chewed up food. Yeah. That weird chewed up food thing that you get in your mouth when you eat things. Yeah. I get that sometimes. At dinner. Breakfast sometimes. Sometimes. Lunch. I don't know. Snacks. Time capsule. Hello to 2050. I mean, seriously, everything that you do that gets put on the internet is permanent. I remember the internet goes down and everything. I don't believe that. That's very true, unless the grid goes down and then all of society ends. That's what I really think is, I actually don't feel this is going to be a time capsule because

it's all going to go down. There's a really great book that I won't remember. Is it called It's All Going to Go Down? Yeah, but I haven't written it yet. And it's not based on anything scientific or it's not like your computer person or anything. It's just kind of like... They're going to do a count in 2050 and the word dude is going to appear 4,000 times in my book. Dude, bro. Dude. So then? I texted Georgia. Sorry, I went away for a second because I had to remember this, but... I don't know what you're going to say and I'm scared. I texted Georgia. No, it was just about something, but in the text, I called you dude. It was like something congratulatory and I was like, way to go, dude. And you wrote back, that's so dude. I know. I saw that later.

I did. Did you do it on purpose? No. Okay, I couldn't figure out if you were... It felt like you were like, thanks. It was like you going, yeah, thanks a lot. No, what I meant to write, actually, was thanks, dude. But instead I wrote, that's dude. That's so dude. And I didn't notice it until like hours later. So I was like, well, I'm not going to bother her. It was like nighttime on Saturday. I'm going to bother her now. So that's a dude. Like she's got to know what I mean a little bit. I looked at it, I was just like, she might be telling me to fuck off right now, although there's really no reason to. Anyway, if I'm telling you to fuck off, it's because I miswrote something. Oh, because like you typed it, because you were trying to write...

Thanks, dude. And if I put an exclamation mark, it's friendly. Oh, okay. If I put a period, it's not so friendly. If there's no punctuation, you're driving. Yeah, you to hell. Are we... Do we have some corners? I have a correction corner, which I kind of love, because I think it's hilarious. But last week, in a very special episode... Yeah, in the breakdown episode. In the breakdown when everything went wrong, when the grid started to sizzle and in the beginning... And now it's fully aflame. Yeah. And in 2050, when it's completely down, this won't matter. But I said that the moment I saw... What I meant was the moment on TV on Tuesday night, when I saw Rachel Maddow's face fall,

I was like, oh, we're fucked. Yes. But instead I said Anne Maddox, which is a girlfriend of mine. He's like super sweet and awesome. Someone you know in real life. Oh, totally. He's like a friend of mine who's a comedian. She's super funny. She's great. But I was just like... And I saw Anne Maddow... Anne Maddow? Maddix. And I was just like, yeah. When I saw Anne Maddix's face, that's really funny. I haven't seen her in a while. So that's not what happened. Somebody actually tweeted to us and it was just the, with the quotes around it of you saying, when you kept saying, don't marry. Oh, that's another correction. I don't know if that's correction corner as much as it is like stroke corner. We should have stroke out corner because

it happens constantly. And when you were doing it, it sounded right to me every time you said it. That scares me because A, I wasn't drinking. You know? That was your mistake. I can't function. That was the problem. I said, I said become a, I was meaning to say become a bone marrow donor. But twice in a row, I said, don't marrow. And I didn't, I would have kept going if you hadn't said, and he said, don't marrow. And I was like, yeah, I didn't even notice. It's, and those are the kind of things I feel like such a, it makes me feel like an asshole, but I know that people listening are like, but that just happened. Like it would, it drives me crazy when I, when I listen to podcasts and something happens and then your brain explodes because nobody says anything about

her. It feels like people don't notice. I want to be called out on my shit all the time. I want to be fucking imperfect and okay with it. Yes. Same here. Me too. I mean, I think we're pretty good about that. About being imperfect? Well, being imperfect and mentioning it. We are. I think we do it. We do it well. Well, because I trust you. I know that when you mention it to me, you're just, it's not because you're trying to like, make me feel small. You're just like, here's what's actually happening. Good personalities. I know. That's why the other day when you told me, you called me out on saying the word fucking all the time, I didn't, I know you didn't mean it like that. Oh, okay. I know you didn't. If I did, like, but I, you know, intention, you know, intention.

Okay, good. Very well. That's good. This is, we're, we're really building a bridge of love right now. We are. It feels, I mean, we need it now. Now more than ever. Time is now. I mean, 2016. Now more than ever. Now more than ever. I have a, this is a, this is a very official corrections corner that I really like. Okay. And it's from Milo. I don't know if I'm assuming Milo is a man. And it's, I love this. Okay. So it's misuse of the word psychotic. Oh, okay. Hello, Karen and Georgia. I'm a big fan of my favorite murder, but one thing that I have noticed is a misuse slash abuse of the word psychotic. This is all me. Cause I love, my mom was a psychiatric nurse. Right. So I use a lot of the terminology that she used to throw around, but she knew what it meant and I don't.

Well, when you say, you say things, psychopath, he was, you know, he was a psycho, whatever. Right. Yeah. It's in our vernacular. But I like, I like hearing this. Me too. Okay. So ready. Psychopathy, sociopathy, I don't know how you pronounce that one, is different from psychosis. People suffering from psychosis are actually less likely to commit violent crime than the general public and are actually more likely to have violent crime committed against them. That's so interesting. While there are those who have mood disorders or display psychotic behavior that do commit violent crime, like Richard Chase, Vincent Lee, who I don't know who that is and now must know. Yes. Eli, um, the ways we judge them should be different than the ways we judge people who

have more awareness for the crimes that they commit. That's all I wanted to say. Thank you for your awesome podcast, Milo. Thanks, Milo. Milo, first of all, I hope that this is true and that you are some kind of psychopath. Milo, you are such a psychopath who are saying that. No, um, you know, that you're qualified in some way, that you're telling us this from a place of education. I mean, look at it. We'll just take it. I'm sure it's correct. I guess we'll have to double check it. I like, I like hearing that. Remember when, remember when, like, it was like 25% of people are psychopaths. And then you're like corrections quarter. Yeah. It's only one quarter. Yes. Um, yeah, I get intimidated by numbers. They're scary. But I love psychological

terminology. Also, there was somebody that wrote to us that, that, um, uh, was offended by something. Something? They were offended by something. They were offended by something, but it was a thing where, uh, it was, it was almost just like a little, um, it's a note to be careful of how we are judgmental when people have, uh, mental illness. I was just going to say that because we just read a, um, a hometown story where they said that someone, someone was found out that they were bipolar and I immediately didn't want to say what they were because, because that's not an indication that you're going to be a murderer or that you're mentally ill. Well, you are mentally ill, but that you're, you know, dangerous. Yeah. It doesn't need the stigma. Yeah. I know people

who are bipolar and they're very awesome people. Right. I don't, I hate, unless it's something extreme and, and clear, I don't want to say that that person is, has this mental illness. Yeah. And, and I think as being conversational and reading stories, and especially when we're talking about killers or serial killers, we can be, we can play it very fast and loose with judgments about them because we feel like, well, they're clearly a villain. Right. But the point that this person was making was a little bit more like, you know, just not everybody that has a mental disorder is a killer and that makes people, if you hear the thing that you have, but, but it's as if like that's everybody. We never want to make anybody feel like that. No. Quite the opposite.

Especially with mental, with mental illness and disorders, which were very big on like, fucking everyone has them and some people treat them and some don't. And you shouldn't be scared to treat them because you found out that a fucking serial killer has it. I don't want to. Yeah. Or like it's just on this podcast, we're, we're not judging you. No. And that's not what we are trying to do. And we'll try to be careful about it. We're judging murderers. Yeah. We get to pick and choose who we judge and we'll adjust it weekly based on how much feedback we get on Twitter. Just always know we're good people. We're the best people. Yeah. Always give us the benefit of the doubt, even if we're being insanely effective. You're, you're probably wrong. Not a, I just want to

clear that up. Such an official corrections corner this week. So good. And Maddox, shout it, shout out. And Maddox, you're doing such a great job helping us through our political times. What else? Oh, it's shirt. There's new shirts up. Oh, yeah. I love that new shirt. Oh, yeah. Okay. Good. Fuck politeness. Fuck politeness. And then it says murder Reno underneath it. It says my favorite murder underneath it. Oh, my favorite murder. It just looks like, kind of looks like the murder Reno design shirt. It's cool. So my favorite murder shirts.com today in a fit of fucking rage and anarchy. I posted fuck politeness shirt that Kat Solin, you know what's so funny is last week on Tuesday, I was going to, I had like made it and I was going to post the new

fuck politeness shirt. And she had given me two designs. And so I was like, you know what, I'm going to save it for tomorrow for Wednesday after the election. And I'm going to say to everyone like, now comes the real vote, which style do you like better? Cause I thought, you know, yeah, I thought you'd have some fun with it. Yeah. Like now that that's out of the way and everything is great and fine. Yeah. Here's the real important election. What do you elect for month for so it hasn't happened. And then today I got really angry. And I've been listening to dead Kennedys. And so I posted, I just posted it. I picked one. It's very cool. Thank you. And we're going to give a percentage. We don't, we're still figuring out donations, but a CLU is going

to get a big fucking fat check from us based on these shirts. So buy one. So fuck politeness and buy one please. But first throat and tank tops and mugs too. Oh, cool. We, we were talking about this earlier, fuck politeness, but also in these very difficult times, be careful of the people around you, be sensitive and try to connect on a human level in a way that you normally don't maybe. I think it's super important that people around you understand that you, uh, care about them. Yeah. And if you are the kind of person who doesn't care about people do your thing, but I just want to underline that fuck politeness in our world means don't sacrifice yourself on the altar of politeness because that could be dangerous for you. But it also, it does not mean

fuck the people around you in general, uh, especially now, especially now, now's the time to be, uh, even more kind of caring and connected. Um, just don't like, let people follow you to your car and shit. It's a, we're talking safety versus, you know, when you're talking to the person at Starbucks, be nicer than you normally would be because everyone's freaked out. But if you're being intimidated and you're scared of something, you know, it's a kind of a trust your gut type of, type of saying. Yeah. You guys know what we're talking about, but I just felt like I should underline it. There's the Mr. Rogers quote of, you know, how his mom always said, look for the helpers in any bad situation. Look for the helpers. Well, how about let's be helpers?

Be helpers. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So right now, I think the most important thing we can do is freak the fuck out, hide under. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Take all your money on it. No. Sorry. No. Uh, Switzerland. No. Speaking of being helpers, this is my favorite thing that's happened to me in a while. Okay. Um, so I'm no brag in the writer's guild of America. Look, wait, what? I've been waiting to Lord this over you for a while. This whole time I've been talking to a writer's guild member. So in the writer's guild, they have this thing where- No, I do think it's really cool though, by the way. I just want to say that. That I'm in the writer's guild. Yeah. I mean, in the writer's guild is a fucking cool thing. Oh, thanks. Yeah.

No, I'm glad I mentioned it. Um, no, but they, they do this thing where normally in every other, like entertainment union, they send you a thing that says, Oh, you know, the year yearly dues are 160 or whatever. But because it's writers and most of us are freelance, they base your dues on based on how much money you made that year, which is, or per quarter, which is based on, it's so impossible. The second I start thinking about it, I shut down and like go and sit in front of the TV, like in, in protest. You big old, I can't. I can't. It's like math. It's all the things I hate. I get overwhelmed. Um, so I have been in arrears and my dues at the WGA. Been in what? In arrears. Yeah, you texted me that today and I don't know what that means.

Oh, it just means you haven't paid your dues. That's a cool word. And you can't, if you do it long enough, they suspend your, um, your membership and then you can't work. So that's how I, I can't, I, my sparklets membership is, I'm overdue on that. That's why you saw all those empty bottles when you walked up my staircase. Be very careful. You don't want to get into arrears with the sparklets guy. I'm in arrears with sparklets. He will kick you in the arrears. So that's such a dad joke. That was amazing. I love dad jokes. So, um, I have a lot of these things in my life right now, but one of them is this, the dues that I don't know how to figure out how much I need to send. And I won't take the time like everybody else does to sit down and do it

because I think I'm better than other people on special, aren't you? A little bit. Um, no. So it's a thing that's hanging over my head. I get a letter today and I'm like, you have to open this, you have to face this. So I read the letter and the letter tells me exactly how much I am. And I'm like, oh, oh, this is the letter. This is what I need. This is exactly it. And I read the rest of the letter and it's like, please send it in in a timely fashion. It's just a, it looks like a form letter, except for it has my amount in it. Yeah. And the sign off is stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Fuck. Yeah. So my friend at the WGA, uh, who works in the dues department and who sends out these letters all the time. You're a new bestie. My new bestie helped me in a way that she

will never know how much she's actually just been using that sign off for decades. And she's going to sue us. And this first time it actually hit someone who was, who wasn't like, what the fuck? Finally, someone could appreciate it. It was, I, you'll never know how much that helps me. It's such a little wink to you. It's, it's such a compliment. I know. But then also it's like a person was like, I'll take care of that. This shit, this podcast, man. I mean, she's not paying my dues. No, let's be, but that's the real thing. She should. I mean, you're welcome. Thousands of thousands of this podcast. And I think after last week's episode that I, they feel really good about the post election episode and all of our friends and all of our friends who have been,

like, I needed that. And I think we, I think we did what we were supposed to do, which was in like a fucking overly crazy political podcast, but like, here's the, here's the general mood we're in and here's what we can do, which was awesome. It just made me flash on though our reviews for the sugar free gummy bears. Yeah. And then for the bananas. Now people are posting other reviews and I read the one, I don't have the name, but it's for the vitamin D milk. No, I haven't seen it. And it is, it's called like something farms vitamin D milk and they've, they've posted it on the Facebook page, but it's you can find it. It's Amazon reviews. It's the funniest fucking thing. It's

like a jug of milk, right? It's a jug of milk, but people are writing it like, have you guys poured this over dry cereal? It's awesome. I mean, you have to read it. Some of them are really short. One lady wrote this big, long story. It's the funniest thing. I feel like, I feel like what happened last week was what was supposed to happen for sure. I'm really happy with it. And people have been so fucking kind and cool. I know, not on your Twitter probably or our Twitter. Twitter is different. We know it's a big garbage can of human waste, human waste, but on Instagram and everywhere else. I mean, this, that's the thing about this fucking podcast is like, oh, I want to cry. I might cry. This is

me crying. Cry right now. You're going to do a dry cry. That's basically what I do because I'm dead inside. But if I weren't, I'd be alive from murdering us. Oh, and also over the weekend, I went to Vince's, we went to this like charity events and they have these like free bracelets where you can, you, you pick a word and they, and they stamp it into this metal. And it's like, your word of, they said to me like, what's your word of intention that every day you want to look at, you know, like breathe or like, you know, it's like one of those like dream. I intend to breathe today. Like, no, I will. You know, there's like rocks that you get at like fucking bed, bath and beyond. Say like dream, love, be happy, whatever the fuck. It sounded just,

it just, no, it just sounded a little bit like you said, dream blood. Well, that's what I got on that. No, I was like, okay, can I get SSDGM? So I have one of these that says stay sex, you don't get murdered initial, right? And I want to give it to someone at the Chicago podcast festival, right? I need to give it to someone. Yeah, just you mean someone. Yeah, you throw it, you could pick someone, you could slip into their pocket and that you, they never see. That's fun. That's a fun way, right? I just want to, and I know it's such a fucking trivial, stupid thing, but I just think it's fucking hilarious that she was like, okay, and like wrote it down and like, didn't know what it was. Well, and it kind of seems like it's

shorthand for some kind of sadomasochistic sexual situation, doesn't it? SSDGM, BDL. I have this, I got my, this is, we can cut this because this is boring, but I'm still gonna say it. I had my, goodbye, Skippers. Goodbye. I had my DNA tested on 23andMe, which is like this crazy thing that you get your DNA tested, it tells you where you're from, what percentage, and it also tells you what, what DNA abnormalities you have. And the one I have, the initials basically look like motherfucker. Really? It's MTHFR, some shit, and it just looks like motherfucker. And it just means you're going to die any year? It really basically means. It's that abnormality. You're really fucked, like you can't. Oh, they're fucked. They're fucked. It's totally fucked. That's hilarious.

You should have had that on a bracelet. It's me, the one with MTHFR. It's like when you, what's the like, do not resuscitate bracelet? Motherfucker, do not resuscitate me. Just don't, just leave it. It just says, I'm good. I'm, my do not resuscitate this. You know what, if I'm down here, leave me here. My donor sticker on my license just says, just take it. I don't even care if I'm unconscious or not. You know what, you can have it. I don't need it. I don't need it. I don't need it. I don't need this liver. Like I really just sit around all day. So just fuck a date. Give it to someone. Just take it. Just give it to someone with a degree in something important. Someone who's really trying. Should we talk about what the podcast

is about? Like, should we talk about the thing that the podcast is for? Like the meat of the podcast, what do you like to call it? What the past half hour just didn't talk about? I mean, look, here's the thing. We're going to get it so that we no longer talk about murders in the podcast. Clearly that's what's coming is it's going to turn into an Amazon review podcast entirely. It needs to happen. Oh my God. Spinner. Dude. I like, why isn't that a thing though? It can be. Every episode you find the best reviews. There was somebody else posted one for something about wet wipes and I was like, I can't do this right now. Like I can't start reading about shit this early in the morning,

but I will eventually the big, the big for her pen later. I saw one that says it doesn't do math. It won't do math. And she just wrote about how it once you got into like complicated equations, it stopped working when you're a woman and you're using it. Do you remember I thought of this this morning and when I was seeing all those other reviews, the one of the original review, ridiculous review site things was the three wolf moon shirt. Do you remember that? Yes. Really long time ago. Yes. That's when people should look up because. Oh my God. They gave them powers of this and that. Yes. Those were great. You're right. I totally proud about that. Three wolf moon Amazon review. I believe it's Amazon. It's something was on. And it is the Ridge. That's the OG. That is the legit

Ridge. Hey, I'm Mike Corey, the host of Wunderers podcast against the odds. In our next season, three mask men hijack a school bus full of children in the sleepy farm town of Chowchilla, California. They bury the children and their bus driver deep underground, planning to hold them for ransom. Local police and the FBI marshal a search effort, but the trail quickly runs dry as the air supply for the trapped children dwindles. A pair of unlikely heroes emerges. Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wunderer app. All right. Can I just do my murder? I hate it. Yeah. No, go. Why do you want to skip first? Keep skipping. Just don't come back. Skip all the way over. I really like my

murder. So get through this. This will be great. I'll just skim this. I'll throw out some concepts. No, this was, here's the long and short of it. I am doing the hometown murder that William sent in that I balked on because I thought that was so unfair of me that I would have been so livid if I was listening to this podcast, gave a shit about it, heard my name. They started to do it and they were just like, no, I'm not doing it. And then they were like throwing children. Nope. Bye. Yeah. So I want to know. So William, first of all, my many and thorough apologies for jerking you around. The thing is that once you get into it, it's not like anything saves it. It's not like it gets better. It doesn't have a different ending or like there's not cool facts.

So wait, you were correct. I was correct, but I'm going to power through it. Good for you. Sounds like life. Right? Yeah. You just got to buckle down. You're correct, but you just got to fucking. You just got to say the hideous facts. And the hideous facts are this, that basically, it took place on August 4th of 1978. So set the tone. We're in Salt Lake City. It's 1978. So you got, you got a lot of brown, you got a lot of corduroy, a lot of blondes actually. Do you think there are a lot of sideburns or no? I think there are plenty of sideburns. I think there's blonde hair with brown sideburns, which is a thing that only happened back then and didn't happen anymore. Good. Remember Stephen? Stephen was there. He knows. Stephen and Elvis

were a traveling band. So there was now, as many people know, but Salt Lake City is a predominantly Mormon. I mean, the whole state is very Mormon. Salt Lake City, more so. And there was a man who, where is this meme? God damn it. I did it again. You do this to yours. You don't put in order. I know. I, it's just, I have to cut and paste just so. So it tells me the story. Oh, if I, if I read what I cut and paste initially, it would be fucking this. It would be a psychopath. I mean, reading it or a sociopath or, or just someone who's having a bad day or any other thing that's not offensive. This man is named Bruce Longo and he has been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints because he's too rock and roll.

If you're too rock and roll for the fucking Church of Latter-day Saints, if your ideas are too big and bold and you get excommunicated, something's going on. Cause those are people that like, they like a group. They like, they like their religion. They want people in it. Big and bold is their saying? I don't know. What's their saying? Yeah. I think it's big and bold and big and bold and read all over. Big and bold and a couple of tablets. That's us. The LDS. I can't wait to see that meme. So Bruce Longo, he got excommunicated and so he started his own cult essentially. That's what you do when you get kicked out of a thing.

Yes. That's right. You splinter off, you start your own, you grow a ponytail, you gain 200 pounds and you fucking act like the cult leader that you are. He also changed his name to Emmanuel David, which is a thoroughly religious sounding name. And the, I can never find a name of the cult that he started, but what it was, was everybody in the cult had the last name David. So that's, it was like, they didn't put together, you know, 25 Davids or any kind of like catchy. The 25 Davids. The 25 Davids. That's our band name. There it is. That's our punk band name. Punk Rock. 25 Davids. But, but basically he got, it was mostly his family members and a couple friends and they got into it. And he apparently was like all cult leaders. He's charismatic. He's very

engaging. He has a ponytail. He has a ponytail. He's kind of large and he gives people a reason, you know, he's like a guide. How great would that be to have that, to believe in a thing? Right now, if I could meet a 300 pound man with a ponytail that told me what was what, goodbye. I would quit this podcast. I would fucking walk on you both. I'm trying so hard just to let you finish. Cause I just want you to keep going. Cause you knew I was just like, I didn't even know what I was going to say. I will not interrupt this. You have to finish the sentence now. Email at KarenMitt. I'm also, I like a bigger man. Don't worry that I'm being sarcastic right now.

For sure. Ponytail, no fucking way. No, gross. What are you doing? What are you going to Gwana dudes? No, stop it. Dude. Did you say, are you in a Gwana dude? Are you in a Gwana dude? You know the guys who are hanging out at coffee shops in the nineties with a McWanna on their shoulder? What the fuck? You're in a Gwana dude. Yes. Okay. Got it. They're everywhere. All right. So essentially he, they would travel all around. They were kind of nomadic and they would live in hotels and they would stay in these hotels. And then when they would go to leave like a couple months later, they would just skip out on the bill and before credit cards existed, I think. Yeah. And that must have been it. Yeah. 78. I think there were credit cards. This was back

when women weren't allowed to have their own credit. Shut your fucking face. Yeah. I swear to God. I remember when my mom had credit cards and when she'd go to a place they had to look her name up in a fucking like yellow pages book of like visa. Oh, there's your name. To make sure it's legit. Just to like charge it. It was so different back then. Maybe I miss remembering. Are you thinking of the phone book? They would look in a phone book. Then they'd call her and be like, is this your credit card? This is like two weeks ago. So I'm probably wrong. I'm sorry. Go on. I'm sorry. So, you know, among the things that this group did was they made a large sword for him. Emmanuel David. They made a large sword.

You acted so casual about that. Among the things is that they prayed to, you know, the different God. Nope. No, they made a big sword. Got it. And he believed he was declaring now that he was God. He thought he was God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit all in one. Hey, red flag. You can be one. Maybe two. You can't be everything. It's like a breakfast burrito. He's just like, I'm breakfast. A burrito. Throw it in there on everything. Hey, how about some sour cream? Yeah, definitely. So with his sword, he promised to lop off the heads of thousands. So we're not, this isn't a positive cult. This isn't like Sephora. This is bad news. He didn't give free samples. No, not at all. He didn't call you muffin when you went in there.

I love that. That's a true story. It happened to me one time. Okay. So, so the police and the Mormon church were keeping an eye on Emmanuel David and his group because he would show up with his followers at Temple Square in Salt Lake City and they wouldn't be violent. There would never be arrests, but he, you know, he was there to like tell everybody that he was the real deal. He was a presence. Yeah. And of course, he probably brought that sword. And then he, what he would do is he would separate the men in the group from their wives and children, send them off to different cities, give them some kind of a task like you, you know, you have to go off and preach in Nebraska or whatever. And then he would keep all the women and children around

him. Cult leaders love that. That's their big thing is like, I'm everybody's daddy. So from 75 to 76, he lived at the Red Lion Inn in Missoula, Montana. Yeah. While his followers were working elsewhere, working quotes, air quotes. But then he had a vision. He decided that the followers he had sent away were actually archangels. And he renamed them Michael, Raphael and Gabriel. And then he told them that he believed the federal government was about to collapse. And well, was he wrong? I mean, he was early. That's all. And he promised that he was going to save the republic and become its new leader. Hey, so he told them to sell. Now, this is funny because I didn't set this up because I'm reading from

the middle of the page. He told them to sell their karate studio. I skipped a paragraph and now I've misled everybody. He did the thing that every cult leader does and every religious that he says, sell your karate studio. They always try to get you away from your karate studio. I'm sorry. Chip chop karate studio will not be sold. You've got to stand by that karate studio. Chip chop. That was the first thing. And you did karate hands while you said that. I did like a chip chop chip and a chop. Basically, Steven's on the ground. So essentially, he was basically saying you have to dedicate your life to me. You have these other you have there you have real jobs. You're kind of still trying to hold it down in normal society. Yeah, break ties. And give me

the money, go to work in other cities and later days, latter days. I'm sorry, I interrupted you but that was the first of that later days. But then I was like latter days. That's right. Later days, latter days. I see. And then you put them together. You see that? And but first you held your finger up like you had a great secret to tell me because I couldn't listen anymore until I said Oh, no, I can't listen. No, it was good. Look, okay, I'm this is just all a year later. He gets the archangels to come back. And he says that he has found the tablets that the Mormon church founder Joseph Smith claimed to have found in red. That's Joseph Smith happened upon them. Well, he says he found them. So once they get back to Salt Lake, he doesn't have tablets,

but when they all meet together, he says, I am the tablets. Now we're right now we're into the bad to imagine the feeling in your stomach. You're one of those archangels like you're in it, you're loving it. Yeah. And then suddenly it's like, dude, you're, what, you're not tablets. That's not a thing. This isn't good. You just like you cross the line of things I can believe. Yes. But not but once you're in, you're in and you have to kind of keep on playing along because you've already grown out your matching ponytail or whatever they had to do. I can't find any information about this. You just like, Oh, I did this thing and I thought this was correct. And so I have to keep going with it. Otherwise. Yes, exactly. Well, and a lot of them were his family

members. So they were like, we love him and he, we believe in all his promises. They said, he's not a bad guy. It's not. It's just his ponytail is bad. So all right, here's the long and the short of it is the government is investigating this guy because they keep these, he is being investigated for wire fraud and other frauds, assorted frauds. It's like a seized candy box or fraud. He's dark chocolate with almonds with no caramel. No grusting. You buy it. No one wants that. Why is this happening? This is the grossest fraud I could have gotten. Grossest. Where's the bardo bar? What's the one you can't have of the seized candy box? I don't like that one, but I also, Oh, the Nugget. You don't like Nugget?

The white Nugget with the, with the chewing, with the chewing and the eating. Yes, I hate it. No, for real though, it's too, it's too much chewing. It's a lot of chewing. Nugget. Fuck yourself, Nugget. I disagree. I'm as new as Nugget's that compatriot. I'm going to say you go fuck yourself. Yes or no. Yes. Oh, okay. We're opposite. We should split. We are not opposite. We are made for each other. We're made for each other. Honey, except for I can't eat you anymore. So it's one fact. So in, in all of the ways he's broke, broken the law in all of the mint patty ways and all of the molasses chip ways, he's done it all. And so what he does, so he, they've been living in the international dunes hotel in Salt Lake City for a year. This is

a $90 a day hotel. They are living in a suite. It's him and his wife, Rebecca. Yes or no, when you were a kid, that would have sounded amazing, right? Living in a hotel? Yes. I get to live in a hotel. It still sounds amazing. That's my favorite. I've been in hotels too many times and I just, they make me sad. They make me so happy. I do love hotel. I run into the bathroom immediately because I want to see the bathroom set up. Oh, okay. I thought you meant like because you had to use it. I just run in there. Have to pee from excitement. No, I guess you're right. Yeah, you're right. Well, here, my thing is they're usually very quiet and the beds are cushy and you can just get into them and watch TV. That sounds like my house. Excuse. I know, but when I do

that at my house, which I do a lot, I always feel bad in a hotel. It's like one request a room that's not by the elevators. There's a travel tip, good tip. Come on. Sorry. No, no. So they've been, so they've been living in this big hotel in Salt Lake City, the whole family. So he has, Emmanuel has a wife named Rachel and they have six children. Um, Rebecca, who's five, David, who's six, Joseph, who's eight, Deborah, who's nine, Josh, Joshasha, Joshasha, who's 10, and Rachel, nah, it's J-O-S-H-A-H-A, like Joe's ha ha. Aren't those names from a VC Andrews book? Some book. It's a book that they're from. Kind of. It's a book that they're from. We see Andrews. Rachel, who's 14, is the oldest,

and then Elizabeth, um, who is 13. So, uh, they're all living in this hotel. The government's circling. And so Emmanuel borrows his truck from one of the people whose last name is also David. He drives up to a canyon and commits suicide by putting a hose from the exhaust pipe into the truck cab. What a fucking dick. You know, I mean, it is quite selfish because this family that he has, every, by all reports of the people that worked at this hotel and people that were anywhere around this family, um, they completely depended on him. They were like, and they were also a loner family. So they, aside from the rest of the cult, which was also mostly their family, they didn't talk to people. They didn't interact.

And the people that worked in this hotel said that the children were very quiet. They didn't speak unless their father said they could speak. And they didn't use the pool. They didn't like, they were not loud. They didn't giggle and they didn't go to school. They were taught in the hotel room by the parents. So they didn't go to the Caribbean and get their groove back, I bet. No, this is, there's going to be no grooves getting gotten back by the end of this. Quite the opposite. So he kills himself because basically it's like the jig is up and you can't just, I'm sorry, you just can't stay at hotels and then leave. Would he, we haven't fine if he had paid the bill? No, because there was other fraud. It's just that the articles, I was on murder

pedia for the most part on this. And everything is pretty vague. And it sounds like it's like, it's like he, he was kind of a problem guy, but he left a trail, but he left this trail and it was basically like, here's how we can get him. Okay. So it was just unpaid bills and wire fraud, Al Capone, get them on tax evasion. That's right. Okay. And also I think he, he really was ripping these people off when they would join his cult. He was like, you know, it's like sell your karate studio, give me the money and you go to Missoula, Montana to spread the word. So they're trying to get chop get him. It's the old chip chop. All right. So when Rachel finds out that her husband kills himself, she tells the cops, well, we don't have any money. I

don't have money to pay for the funeral. They realized something's terribly wrong. And three days later, the morning of August 4th, she, they were staying at the suite on the 11th floor of the International Endurance Hotel. And she walked her children out onto the patio. And either through or pushed all of her children off of the 11th floor of this hotel. So there were people standing on the street below and screaming at her. So they, so one kid hits and they're like, Oh my God. And they think at first they think it's like an accident. And then it's six children. So it just keeps happening. And they're screaming, they're all screaming at her. And I mean, I, that's fucking Christ. Yeah. This is why I didn't want to read it before. But

I mean, it's that kind of all I can think of is those people who are, you know, there's pedestrians, there's, there were guys that were like maintenance guys that were fixing the road or something. Who there's a truck driver. Pts fucking D. Oh yeah, that's so traumatic. Yeah. And, but, and they, she's throwing off the little kids and the older ones are doing it voluntarily. So it is so it is like a horror movie. Oh my God. And then at the end, they all start yelling for her to jump off. Like they go through so much seeing this and witnessing it and freaking out that they get really angry. They can't feel good about that too. You know, like they have PTSD, but they also have to live with that. And they, and that's not who most of us think we are. But I understand why

at that point you're like, fuck you because they're also down where the kids are hitting. And they can't do anything. Yes. They're completely powerless. It's horrifying. Yeah. And the thing was they didn't have to even yell that because that was her plan anyway. And then she jumped off. Jesus Christ. All of her children died except for one. And it was Elizabeth who was 13. And she had severe brain injury. And she was in a hospital. They thought she wasn't going to live. But then she did. And she got better enough. They put her in a foster home. And then when she turned 18, she went back and lived with her uncle who was still in the cult. So the Davids were still an existing religious group. Jesus. And she lives with them now, still believes that her father is

going to come back from the dead, still believes her father is God and believes that everything that happened was exactly what would have happened and says it's what they all wanted. Let's go break her out right now. She wants to be there. No, let's set her free. She will. No, I know. I know. I just am trying to have it. It's a solution that won't work. That's awful. But you're just trying to do something and I appreciate it. Yeah. It's such a horrible story. It's a terrible story. It's terrible. The craziest thing is now they changed the name to the Shiloh Inn. The hotel is still there. You can go there. When we do a live show in Utah, guess what we're saying? Not there. Not fucking there. There are people that go there and stay on the 11th floor

intentionally. Oh, my God. There have been reports of hearing laughter coming from the first floor pool area when no one's around. But we know they weren't. They'd never swam. Right. But still, maybe it's the idea of they get to have fun now. They're good ghosts. As well as a pinball machine in the game room that spontaneously turns on and starts playing. Don't they do that, though? To show you how to play. That's right. They go into demo mode. I don't believe in ghosts. But it's ghosts. But it's actually ghosts this time. But it's ghosts this one time. This one time. People just hear voices and a lot of people think that this place is haunted. What I think is pretty interesting is Danny Elfman has always

been a frequent visitor of this hotel. Danny Elfman. He first started going in 1984. He was touring with Oingo Boingo and he heard the story and stayed on the 11th floor. He always stays on the 11th floor. He wrote Dead Man's Party inspired by that hotel. They have a great old movie if you can find it called The Forbidden Zone made by Oingo Boingo in the 80s. That's creepy and fucked up. And I wonder if maybe it's connected or inspired by. Sure. Also, it's believed that he was so fond of his young friends. Oh, because he had ghost experiences when he was staying there. Dude. So that's like he would go there intentionally. I trust a fucking Elfman. You trust Elfman? I mean, he wrote the Simpsons theme. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. He would go to stay

there and he stayed there while he composed the music and lyrics for the night nightmare before Christmas. Fuck. Yeah. That's amazing. You just dropped your paper. I dropped it as if to say at least there was one good thing in that story. That. Yeah. There's that. So William, we owe this all to William. This was his home town, murder originally. And it got kicked all the way up to full, a full grown. Tim and William stopped listening and fucking went on a murder spree when he, when you didn't finish his story. He was so angry. He was so mad at me. He was so pissed. All right. Thanks. Thanks, William. That was amazing. Well, so originally I was going to, and I, and I studied for it all day. I was going to do Harvey Milk. I know. And I knew you'd make

that noise. And so I didn't do it. I will do it someday. And if everyone needs to know about it, you should go look at it. But there's a great documentary. I think it's called The Life in Times of Harvey Milk offhand. And the reason I love it so much is because it's, it's tons and tons of footage of San Francisco in the seventies. Totally. So it's like, it's like I'm watching my own distant childhood memories. It's so crazy. Do you know that the fucking Jonestown or the Jim Jones Temple like passed out pamphlets for them and supported them? It's pretty sweet. In support of Harvey Milk? It's Harvey Milk and Moscone, yeah. Yeah, because the people's temples started as like this. Very liberal. It was liberal and it was like trying to help

like oppressed low income people like get together. Totally. Yeah. So I'm not, so halfway through I was like, what would Karen say? And then I was like, I'm not doing this. No, no, no, it's good. I'm glad I'm not because I, because I, because I was looking and I was like, what do I do instead? And then I found one that I've wanted to do for a long time. And I'm really excited because I found some more information about it that I'm excited about. All right. Karen. Yes. Let's go back to Chicago. Okay. Which we're going to next week. Yay. In 1982. Metropolitan area, which is such an eighties term, isn't it? I don't know why. Metropolitan makes me think of eighties. The tall, the buildings are all staggered.

Yeah. Tall, short, tall, short. And it's like it expands upon it, whatever the fuck. This is the time before tamper proof seals and pills were sold with just a cotton ball tucked underneath the wood. So you went and bought aspirin or whatever the fuck and you just opened it and maybe had been opened before and maybe it hadn't. There was no childproofing on as you opened it and there was no silver foil. None. You could open it and then do whatever you wanted and close it back up. If you were a baby, if you were an old, you just, babies could open it. Yeah. This is, this is the, this is 82. So it's before there were like a child, one of the things where they can't open the drawers and stuff. You have to childproof your

home when you're a baby. Childproofing. Yeah. Yeah. This is before that. Yeah. When the eighties were like just eat it all. This was when they used to sell baby knives. Remember that where there was just like your, you could get your baby a really cute knife that I could just hold. Yes. I remember that. I still have mine. I do. With your initials on it and two ducks. Oh my God. That is the cutest beauty knife. I have to say my mom saved it. One of my diaper pins. Oh yeah. You had, you had safety pins, safety pins on diapers, cloth diapers and safety pins. Gross and dangerous. The safety pin itself was humongous and so sharp. And cute. So the baby would be like, I want to play with that. What the fuck? How are we, how did we survive? I mean, all right. So let's start, let's start with

something. I'm going to do it's kind of a timeline thing because it's like one and a half days of fucking a shit show. Okay. So 1982, September 29th. The first thing to happen is that Mary Kellerman, who was a 12 year old from Elk Grove Village, Illinois, wakes up feeling sick. Her parents are like, you can stay home from school. They give her some Tylenol to make her feel better. She goes in the bathroom to take it. Moments later, she collapses on the floor. She's rushed to the hospital. I know. Sorry, how old was she? She's 12. She's exactly the same age as me. Sorry. Because I was just thinking of like, it's 82. I'm 12. Oh, I thought you meant right now you were pretending to be 12. That's how all that is happening. I did get carded over the weekend,

so it's cool. Did you? And I was like, I know you're joking, but fuck you. We went to Button Mash and the guy was carding everybody else and then he looked at me and I just shook my head. No. And he started laughing and opened the door for me. But it does that too. Yeah. He goes, he like gestures. Come on, dude. Yeah. I'm not trying to. How good is their food there, by the way, at Button Mash? Oh, wait, I mean. Oh, it's good. Sorry, sorry, sorry. No, the place is great. She wakes up feeling sick. Sweet Mary is pronounced dead at 9.56 a.m. Next comes Adam Janus. He's a 27-year-old poster worker in Arlington Heights. Takes a sick day, doesn't feel good. He picks up his kids from school, stops on the way home at the jewel, which I guess is a thing.

It's like their CVS. Yeah. And gets some Tylenol. And he says to his wife, I'm going to take some Tylenol and lay down. A couple of minutes later comes staggering into the kitchen and he dies at 3.15 p.m. At 3.45 p.m. Mary, quote, Lynn Reiner, who's 27, is at home in Winfield. She had just given birth to her fourth child. So she's home recuperating. She's not feeling good. So she takes some Tylenol that she had been given and brought home from the hospital after giving birth. This is weird shit. We'll talk about it later. Yeah, so she takes those and then moving on to 5 p.m. So this woman named Nurse Helen Jensen, who is the badass motherfucker of the story. She's a public health nurse for Arlington Heights. And the Janice family, remember earlier Adam,

who was the poster worker, had come in. The whole family, the whole Adam family. Oh shit, Elvis is going to vomit. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's welcome to my life. That's gross, right? I mean, that's all they do. I know. Okay, so the whole Janice family is there. Adam dies. And so they all go back to his house to like, to figure out what they're going to do and start mourning and planning the funeral. And Adam's younger brother, Stanley, he has chronic back pains. His wife, Teresa, gets him some Tylenol. She comes, she gives him two Tylenol, she comes back and took two Tylenol as well. She had a headache. They both go down. Oh my god. The brother, they go, what are the chances? They went back to his house where he had fucking fallen.

6.30 p.m. In a store in Lombard, Illinois, Mary McFarland, a 31-year-old resident of Elmhurst, tells her co-worker she has a headache. She goes in the back room, takes a couple Tylenol, and within minutes, she hits the floor. 8.15 p.m. Stanley Janice, who's Adam's brother from earlier, is pronounced dead. 3.15 a.m. Mary McFarland's pronounced dead. 9.30 in the morning, Mary Reiner's pronounced dead. So everyone's fucking taken the shit and dying within hours. At 1.15, Teresa Janice, the wife of Stanley, dead. So at 5 o'clock, the next day, police discover the body of Paula Prince in her old town apartment. Old town is the town. The night before, so she's a flight attendant. The night before, she lands. She's a 35-year-old woman.

She stops at Walgreens because she has a headache to buy some Tylenol. There's a surveillance video of this and some photographs from it that you can see online. She's not heard from for a couple days, so the cops get sent there. The bottle of Tylenol is sitting open on her vanity, and she steps away and collapsed. So Nurse Jensen, who we were talking about, the badass motherfucker, says, I found a bottle of Tylenol, and there were six capsules missing, and three people were dead. In my mind, it had to be something to do with the Tylenol. And of course, there was no protective sealing on this or any over-the-counter drugs. They just had cotton tucked in there. So I went back to the hospital, and we took the bottle with us. And I

said, this is the cause. And of course, nobody would believe me. And I stamped my feet. They said, oh, no, it couldn't be. It couldn't be. Like, they had not pieced these things together yet. But I think once the brother and sister-in-law of one of the deceased died in the same home, they realized it was something was going on. So the investigator named Pea Shose sees that the Tylenol bottles all have the same control numbers on them, meaning they're coming from the same plant. He, let's see, medical examiner know. And the deputy medical examiner named Donahue tells him to smell the bottles. And he smells inside of them. And he smells that telltale sign of cyanide. That's almond. What were you gonna say? Bulgum. Just kidding.

Because you seemed so out of it, you lifted your finger. No, I knew. But then I wanted to have fun with it. Go ahead. So cyanide has a strong smell of almonds or bubble gum. Because you know in stone fruit, any kind of pit in anything, there is a little bit of cyanide. And if you eat enough, yeah. But you couldn't really ever eat enough because it's so hard to eat. Digest. And if you break down, right? Yes. But I think it's because I had it, you know how I know this is I had one of those crazy blenders. What's it called? Vitamix. Where you can stick everything in it. Vitamix. Yeah, Vitamix. And they're saying like an apple seeds. Yes. Or you know, like that there's cyanide in there. Totally. But it's it's a tiny, tiny, tiny trace amount.

But there's also tons of vitamins in there. So when you can throw everything into a blender, you get way more vitamins. You know what else vitamins or vitamins are in? Vitamins. Oh yeah, you can just take some vitamins. Just fucking take some vitamins. Not related, kind of related. I once, never mind. Okay. I once ate watermelon rind to make myself throw up, so I didn't have to go to Hebrew school. Oh, did it work? It did. Oh, good. And here we are. If only you had studied your Hebrew better. Really? I mean, what would have happened? I don't know. Very nice Hebrew. Okay. I mean, we can go deep into this. Let's not do it. So he smells almonds and the medical examiner said that how lucky he was because only 50%

of the fat that half the population can actually smell the almonds and cyanide, which is terrifying and amazing, right? And it turns out that the Tylenol pills were laced with potassium cyanide at a level toxic enough to provide thousands of fatal doses. So each one had thousand. So the reason they fucking hit the ground immediately is there was so much. It was like they were overdosed. Way overdosed. Jesus. So at 315, Mary McFarland dies, 9.30 in the morning, Mary Rhino dies. Did I already say that? I might have. And so the pills had all come from different plants, supposedly, and had bought it had been bought at different Chicago stores. So the police thought that a single person had bought all the pills at different places, tampered with them,

and then returned them to the different stores. So on Tuesday, October 5th, which is not shortly after, Johnson and Johnson recalls all Tylenol products nationwide. I remember this. Do you remember this? Oh, yeah. I was 12. It was on the news. It was the craziest thing in the world. In our house, I think my parents bought Bayer. Yeah, but they threw it all away. They were like, it was just a whole, I mean, I remember standing in the living room and watching it on the news. And these are, so everyone should know, these are the capsules that you get that you can open up and there's powder inside of them. These are, that's what these are. So it's not like, you know, the like gel caps you get today or anything like, so anyone could open them up,

whatever they want in them. There's no seal on any of this. So. And there's also a very famous commercial at the time and maybe a little bit earlier for contact cold medicine. Yeah. And in the commercial to some fingers, pull apart a contact pill and all the little beads inside the pill fall out. And then it talks about all the benefits of this holy shit medicine. It's like, here, look what you can do. I mean, it's, it feels to me like that that was, it was in the consciousness, if not exactly someone who is fucked up and evil. See, like some one person puts that together, you know, like the majority of people who see that don't fucking think how easy it is to fucking poison people. Right. So Johnson and Johnson recalls all Tylenol products,

people fucking lose their minds in panic. 31 million bottles valued at more than a hundred million dollars of Tylenol products are removed from shelves nationwide nationwide and Chicago police go through the streets with loudspeakers, warning residents of the dangers of taking Tylenol. Oh my God. And the thing about this is Johnson and Johnson was totally on board with this. They were the ones who fucking were like, yes, you know, because this was back when people cared about human beings. Right. When they were like, how much money is that going to make me lose if I recall this car? We'll just pay the, we'll just pay the lawsuit. Yeah, it's not worth it. I don't need another boat. No. And if the lawsuit happens, our insurance will just pay it. But also, have

you ever, I don't know if there's anything else that's ever happened like this where it's like recalls on cars or one thing where you're like, yeah, take your car in or whatever. Yeah. But like, I don't remember anything like this ever happening. Like a panic of a thing that everyone has in their home. And then no one used again for years and years and years. And they knew that was going to happen. Yeah. So, all right. I wrote such an 80s thing that, oh, the, the, the driving through the streets with loudspeakers. That was such an 80s thing. That's like blues brothers. Vote for mayor, whatever the fuck. It's a, yeah, back to the future. Yes. Goldy. Goldy. Goldy. Mayor Goldy. I'm going to be mayor. Okay. So, all right. So I wrote this whole thing about the guy

who they suspected was, who they still, they're, it's still suspected he's no one was ever fucking arrested. Okay. No one was ever arrested. A man writes a letter to Tylenol manufacturer in October 1982. It's like a month or two later demanding one million dollars to quote, stop the killings. The letters are traced back to a tax consultant named James, whose name I don't want to say because he's never, he was never arrested and he was never convicted. And I'm scared of people. Well, and also if it's such a nightmare because if just by chance, it really wasn't him, but then everybody thinks it was, and that's horrifying. Totally. And I wrote all these things that were like, it was clearly him, but then something

happened the moment you got to my apartment and I had a fucking study. So this guy, James, had been charged in 1978 in Kansas city of the murder, of a murder after police found the remains of one of his former clients in his attic. Ooh. Addick. Yeah. Addick. Sounds so wrong to me, but the charges were dropped. What's attic? Addick. There's our D. Attic. There you are. Addick? Did I say it right? Now it's sound, now it makes no sense to me. That's too many times. Addick. Attic. Attic. I mean, when you do it on the stage. Attic. No one says I like that though. Attic. Okay. Up in the attic. Okay. Up in the attic. No tea. I just can't. Charges are dropped after a judge rules that the police search of his home was illegal. So like

motherfucker. Wait. So they find a body, but it's still, they vacate the. Yep. They went in without a fucking search warrant. A judge is like, sorry. Yeah, you can't do that. Oh. So when he, so they trace this, this letter saying he wants a million back to this dude, James, and James gives him a detailed account of how the killer might have operated and described how someone could buy medicine, use a special method to add cyanide to the capsules and return them to store shelves. Like he tells them how it could be done. But he thinks he says he's innocent and what actually he was doing was when he asked for the one million, he gave the bank information for a former employer and he wanted to embarrass that man and send the money to his bank account and like frame him for

it. Oh. Yeah. But he is, they don't think it's him, but they, he's charged with extortion and sentenced to 20 years in prison just for that fucking letter released to 95. Oh God, is this getting boring? Okay. They re-open the investigation in February 2009. They search his fucking house. They don't think it's him. There's not enough evidence to charge him. Okay. But here's where this gets interesting and where I fucking last left off. Two words for you, Ted Kaczynski. One more word, Unabomber. So the Unabomber has some weird connections to this that I really fucking love and it's so far fetched and crazy, but I love this shit. So I looked at a map of where all the locations were in Chicago and the map that most made sense led back to where Ted Kaczynski's

family is from. It was within 20 minutes of the tampering sites at the epicenter of the fucking tampering sites. Is where his family's from. Yeah. All the lines lead back to fucking the parents' house. And in that year, 1982, Kaczynski's bombs were calculated to commit mass and indiscriminate murder. He had let a bomb off in 1980 on an airline and a 1981 fire bomb at the University of Utah. And in 1982, a fire bomb at UC Berkeley. So he was active as fuck at this time and his family is from 20 minutes of where all of these fucking places where they were bought. Yeah. And he had stated his motive was a desire to destroy the public's faith in the technological industrial system. And in his manifesto, he expressed a dislike for the manufacturer of drugs and pills.

The unabombers of that? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So we're done here. No, we're not. Okay. Okay. But want to hear something even cooler that I fucking love. This is so cool. And I had a, I had to check a lot of fucking, I had a, I had a dig for this information and it didn't, I mean, this was hours of research before I found this information. This is from unazawad.com, which specifically highlights the link between the unabomber and the Zodiac killer. Oh, I know. Which is like what? But it's also like what? So the unabomber has an obsession with wood specifically. I know. Two of his victims were Percy Wood and Leroy Wood Baerson. And the founders of Johnson and Johnson Company were named Robert Wood

Johnson and James Wood Johnson. I'm sorry. That's crazy, right? Not my being. Okay. All right. So I don't know. I just think he did it. They think he's giving a clue to his location. This is a thing he does is like give weird clues and like how the Zodiac killer does as well. And then there was also a Tylenol murder in Sheridan, Wyoming. And this was like 15 minutes from Kazinsky's house before all this happened. I'm sorry. Hold on a second. Yeah, I don't know. It just fucking it all adds up to this guy. To hide Kazinsky. So wait, the other but the other guy you believe was just trying to embarrass his boss. He was definitely a crook and a con man. And initially I was like clear to this

is the guy. But when I started reading more into this, it doesn't it there's no ammo of the Tylenol murders that make sense unless they were focusing on one specific victim and trying to hide it by killing a bunch of other people. But that but but none of that adds up to the actual people who got killed. There's nobody that they can pinpoint. Whereas Ted Kazinsky clearly it's like it's all kind of laid out there. Yeah, the motive is that he was in fucking anarchist insane person who wanted to fuck companies and fuck the government and whoever got in the way and whatever the victims were were just par for the course. Well, because he was trying to seed like that panic and that like basically unrest. Yeah, totally. And so there's a lot of weird like weird similarities. And also,

I mean, I know that the fucking Zodiac killer shit sounds weird, but there's a lot of there's a lot of instances of when he was in the time and the place and there's evidence of him in these places and times Ted Kazinsky. Yeah, when Zodiac was active. Wow. I know. So then that's when Georgia went crazy. I mean, you're on the internet for 12 hours. And all of a sudden you're like, and the other thing is that Ted Kazinsky is also a big foot, which is gonna sound weird when I first say it. Tell me more. But there is so there's this photo of the woman who was the woman who was a an airline a stewardess. There's she picks up her medic her Tylenol. She's a headache. There's a man in the aisle on the surveillance camera looking at her directly. No. And he has receding hairline and

a beard, which both fucking both dudes, Ted Kazinsky and this other guy both like that. They both look like that. It looks more like Ted Kazinsky to me, honestly. But he's someone who would claim responsibility for it. So it's kind of weird. Okay. So in May 83, Congress approved. Bless you. Do you want some Tylenol? Are you okay? I'm just gonna lay down for a second. And here. X is for eyes. But no, it's for eyes. Okay, Congress and acts to fucking Tylenol bill. Everyone has to fucking was it called the Tylenol bill? Oh, in 83, they have to you have to pull shit off of your fucking pills before you take them. The in 89, the FDA sets national requirements for all over the counter products to be tamper resistant. So that's the why that's that's the

why you've always been looking for that why here it is and here it is the why. So but there's no no there's nobody. It's just a bunch of people got fucking killed from taking a fucking aspirin. And there's insufficient evidence to charge anyone and no new or promising leads. That's the 2015 I there's nothing I looked for everything. There's nothing new since then. You know, what's awful about that is the panic. How horrible like those cops must have been going crazy. And like those detectives, like it was there, they had to be everywhere at once. It's like it's not one victim in one place. It's like, and basically in all these neighborhoods around metropolitan Chicago dropping. So like clearly, the person who did this is in this area and you

can't find them. And what I always think about is how awful it must be for those cops for weeks to go by and the more they keep taking people off the case and keep doing it. And then suddenly there's five people on this case from there used to be 100. Yeah. And yeah, what are they gonna do? Yeah, there's nothing you can do. And when your leads dry up, it's just like, oh, and there's no it's not like people were like doing something to a tamper proof package. Yeah, like they suddenly realize anyone could be doing this at any time to any product. It could be any of the family members of the people who died. It could be any of the coworkers of the people who's who's fucking relatives died. Yeah. It could be some rando. To me, it makes the most sense that it's some

fucking anarchist fuck the government. It makes a lot of sense. Dude, who sends who sends in the mail bombs to blow up in people's faces. Yeah. I know this sounds crazy, but the wood he was obsessed with wood and all things wood. And when I saw the Johnson and Johnson's middle name was wood, I lost my mind. But when you say when you were saying he was obsessed with all things wood, then you gave the example of the names. But was he also was it like other things? Like, yeah, there were a lot of weird, weird, like wood types and trees and like really weird, like he was really into like earth, wind and fire. Like the same way the Zodiac had his, what's it called? The letter, the like the lettering. Oh, the the puzzle that he puzzles.

Cryptogram or something cryptogram. Ted Kosinski left a lot of clues and the things he did on purpose. Okay, to kind of fuck with people and they liked to see it and wood was one of his things. Oh my God. So they were this in this. And he lived out in that weird cabin. Yeah, he did. Yeah. And which is by 15 minutes from where the fucking first guy who died of a cyanide fucking poisoning from tile from Tylenol died. You know what case closed. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I just want to go ahead and again, give fucking shout outs to Unizod because. Oh, yeah. These dudes, I mean, I would I would there's nothing in any of the news reports that connect these things. There's there's also two cops who got poisoned the night before any of this started because they

found boxes of of Tylenol from a manufacturer with powder in the middle. They rubbed the powder on their fingers and they got sick, which makes it seem like it didn't actually the guy didn't just go into fucking drugstores and pull this like he actually had a connection to the manufacturer. Right. Which of course Johnson and Johnson wouldn't want to admit. I mean, and also, what if you were the PR person for Johnson and Johnson or for like that product specifically, your life is like now just constant living that is a I mean, obviously, an incredible tragedy and just like a random awful people dropping dead is just the worst, obviously. Totally. But then on top of that, you have to get out in front of like the worst PR nightmare kind of next to

like the Exxon Valdez or something. We're just like, oh, this is just massive tragedy. Thinking about how many, you know, how many people who are 30 and under listen to this who don't know any of these fucking references we're making. And so when I wanted to do Harvey Melk, it's like, this shit's important. Fucking Exxon Valdez. That's fucking important. I mean, well, they can look it up. I mean, what we can't fucking carry the world on our goddamn backs. We can't be everything for any millennial, every millennial. They if they want to, they'll find out about it. Okay. It's pretty fucking cool, right? It's great. I you know, it's super weird. I thought the I thought the Tylenol poisonings. I remember reading something somewhere where it

was a husband and wife. There was a woman who ended up shooting two people who they suspected could be. She was in that area at the time. She was very mentally ill. Oh, okay. And they looked into her and her husband. But the guy, the other guy I mentioned, his wife also might have been, they suspected was complicit in it. But there was no, there was never anything tying them back. And don't you wonder about like, when they pulled those Tylenol bottles from those fucking houses, like the fucking fingerprints that could have been on them that then were ruined because everyone touched them. That's right. This nurse, this nurse, though, man, they didn't know she knew fucking high fives to her high fives to nurses who are the ones that,

you know, they're the they're, they're the brains behind it all. They're the badass motherfuckers of the medical fucking world. BAMF. I want you to get that put on the back of a leather vest and then just ride your motorcycle all around town doing it. It's a moped. Is that okay? Okay. Yeah. It's fake leather. Is that all right? Yeah. As long as you gun the engine and stuff. This has been a wonderful episode. Yeah. I mean, in terms of tragedy. I'm sweating. Karen, what's one good thing that happened to you this week? I know. I know. I know. I like that we don't think about this because it has to be something. Boom, boom, boom. Think about it. What is it? Um, no, don't. What's one good thing that's happened

this week? I mean, it's been a tough one. Um, and it will continue to be, uh, I guess. Um, it has to be different than my, than anything I've said already. One good thing. Why don't you go first? You fucking asshole. Oh no. Oh my God. Okay. Ow. Um, I guess. Jesus Christ. Yeah, right? It's hard to think about his food. Oh, oh, that's good. That's valid. Oh, oh, Westworld. Uh-huh. That's a good show. Let's help me. Yep. Okay. I see nothing. There's nothing. Westworld counts. Okay. What? Did you think of another one? No. I mean tattoos that people are getting of my favorite murder shit. Oh, that's fun. Uh, mine would be the show that I did last night at Largo. That was really awesome. And it was me, Blank Patch. Uh, Pat,

it was Pat Nozwell's night. So it's Pat Nozwell and friends, Bobcat Goldway. And then Fred Armisen was just hanging out because he was in town. So I had him come on stage. Oh, first of all, I should say this. My set started, they introduced me. This one woman started screaming. No. And then as the applause died down, she screamed murdering out so loud. No. Like so loudly. And I was like, you've had seven beers. Like it was one of those kind of things where it was, she didn't know I was on the show because they don't ever advertise who's doing it. Oh, that's cool. So I think she was just like so delighted. I don't mean to accuse her of being drunk, but it seems like she was. It was me, Karen. It was really funny though. She was really excited.

But then I, as I told you at the end of my set, I had Fred come out and pretend he was my comedy coach. And we just did a bit that we didn't even, it wasn't even like we made, we just said that's what we're going to do. And then we just kind of improved it. And it was really funny. That's amazing. It made me feel much better. I wish I'd been there next time. Next time you'll tell I wish I knew about. Well, you can't ever get into Largo shows. I can't ever, or other people can't ever. Oh, well, yeah, I just never think of inviting people because it's, they're always so packed. No, I'm kidding. I can't get in. Say anything. Well, what I realize now is I can get you in. I'm like, where did I go? That's why I don't ask you to come anymore.

Um, if you guys would go to iTunes and in your sadness and grief and just fucking leave us a review, right? That might help. It might make you feel better. Maybe it'll make you feel better. And if it doesn't, please go read the milk reviews on Amazon. Totally worth it. Not the Harvey milk reviews. Just the milk reviews. Plain old vitamin D. It's like Tuscan farms. I think. Yeah. That's gorgeous. Yeah. Thank you guys for listening and being fucking cool people. And you know what? Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Bye. Elvis want a cookie? Come on cookie. Cookie? He said yes. Bye.