My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 441 - Aim For The Basement

Episode Date: August 15, 2024

On today’s episode, Georgia covers the murder of Lisa Ziegert and Karen tells the story of the 2003 Antwerp Diamond Heist.  For our sources and show notes, visit www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hello. And welcome. To my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstark. That's me, Georgia Hardstark, yelling in Karen Kilgarriff's ear. That's both of us turning down our thing that we thought we wanted turned up. I thought that mic was hot and it is. And it is. Hot, hot, hot here in the studio. Look at our studio. It's so cute.

Guys, this studio is so cute. You're going to see it soon. You'll see it. You're gonna love it. You better fucking love it. You better like these curtains. I feel like a lot of velvet is the main feature, which I love. Velvet's made an incredible comeback from 2004.

Definitely. Crushed velvet? When's that coming back? I mean, it's right around the corner. I have a whole area in my closet that's just like ready to come back. I can feel it on the back of my neck. So crunchy and crushed. And then also a choker and really thin eyebrows. Let's bring it all back. That's right. Listen, if Chappellrone does it, maybe it'll come back. That's right. Can I tell you a funny story of me driving to this record? Yeah.

And I realized I hadn't eaten lunch. So I just was eating a Subway sandwich as I drove here. That's kind of the whole story. When's the last time you just had a whole, like just truly, I mean, most of the eating was being done at stoplights. Okay. Because that's an awkward thing to drive and eat. But I did it. It's not compact, but I'm happy for you, I'm proud of you.

I think at first I felt very shy about it, and kind of like wiping my mouth every time. Just lifting this giant sub, did you get like a family? One of the long foot long ones? It was one of the ones you get at a big party. 50 feet. Back of your seat. But I realized it was that kind of thing where I'm like,

I am just unapologetically in Los Angeles County eating a submarine sandwich at the wheel. Yeah. I think it's brave and very new. It's very brave of you. Thanks. Thanks so much. I want to just go ahead and acknowledge that. Congratulations. What did, thank you so much. What did you do that was brave this week since I've seen you last? Oh, I went to a Dodger game again.

Incredibly. The strength of character that must have taken. Truly. I've gone to three Dodger games this year. Did that. That was brave of me, I think. Congratulations. Thank you. It's real hot, but it was Vince's birthday and that's what he always wants.

Yeah, you can't say no. I know. Can I ask you something about birthdays that seem unfair to me? Sure. Okay. So Vince is like birthday month, which is like some people do that. Is Vince a real birthday princess? He is surprisingly, right?

It's surprising. It's not like him. It's not like him. But I realized that when your birthday is in the middle or later of the month, you're kind of allowed to do that. And I realized my birthday is on the eighth and I've never been able to do like birthday month because afterwards who fucking gives a shit no one's gonna keep on powering through with you the final three weeks leading up to it yes once it's gone no

but even then cuz I'm on the 11th yeah I think I feel the same way you feel where I've never well but also I just don't that's not my thing either the idea of like leading up it would be like my sister, if anybody being like, what do you want in there? Yeah. Or whatever. But yeah, people who really are like, these are all the plans laying out

like a week's worth of stuff around you. Yeah. It's bold. I want people to know whose birthdays are at the end of the month, that you've got it so much better. And like, you can do that. The build that you get to drive to.

Yeah. Like I have the rest of June to be like it's not my birthday still anymore. You know I'm really sad about it. I have to wait so long again to have a birthday week. Do you reserve a week? Yeah I'll use it to my advantage. You know what I mean? Sure.

We get to go where I want to go to eat. We get to do this and that. And that's different how? I've seen you. I've seen you in action with your husband. Because I'm always right about where we should go. Well, that's true too. I can't argue that. That's not true.

He picks sometimes and I can't help it that he's wrong and that might. Well, also you have a discussion about it where it's like, this is what I found. That's what I saw, I should say. I saw it in the cities that we would visit where it's like, you'd roll up and be like, there's a gastro pub around the corner that has fried pickles. I'd be like, what?

And then he'd be like, well, I don't want no mood for fried pickles. What about this barbecue place? And I'd be like, I'm not in the mood for this barbecue. And so we then go somewhere neither of us want to go. That's why I was there as the terrible third. Hey, what's up? The third is here to change the plan. You get to you get the final say. Really? Right. The third person. And it can't be us.

I'm going to use that against you in the future because you said it on mic and you said it on tape. Delete that. Delete that. Alejandra, if you delete that, you're both fired. Double fired. You're triple fired if you don't fucking delete it. And this is where the whole company breaks down. The whole thing. Oh my God, did you feel the earthquake today? No, I was at the dentist.

That doesn't mean you couldn't feel an earthquake. Oh, my dentist is so good that there's like a protective wall around the building. That doesn't make sense. I know. No, I was at the dentist. I just know those are two separate things. I found out about it in the dentist chair. That's so funny.

Yeah. Was it big? Was it scary? It was a pretty big one, but my house seems to tolerate them. Good. Yeah. So that's it. I heard it was a long one.

It was. It was long. That's a scary experience. Should I just real quick once again brag that my house is built on granite or it's hard to pass up? I feel like we shouldn't be talking about earthquakes as often lately as we have been because there shouldn't be so many fucking earthquakes but... You think the big ones will come in?

Maybe. Maybe. Definitely. Always. It would be kind of great writing if just the next thing that happens, it's like right as the steam is building for like equality, empathy, care, America's going to turn it around. The Olympics. The people being really good at running.

And then suddenly just whatever, the Yellowstone caldera goes off and we are D-O-N-E done. No, don't say that. Is that what's going to happen? Well, isn't that what you're saying? I don't know. I don't really know what I mean by the big one. OK. You're just kind of scared in general?

Yeah. I like to get specific. Okay. Well, you said it. It's on record. It's too bad I won't be here to win. To win when I win. How disappointing. No, it'll just be you and your house. Karen's house, the only fucking remaining structure in Los Angeles. How you happy now, Karen? Yeah, you were right, Karen.

Me and my dogs will be like, hell yes, no one can get up here. Wait. Wait, Postmates. no one can get up here. Wait. Uh-oh. Wait, Postmates. Wait, I need that guy. Oh, should we open the surprise envelope? Oh yeah, what is this? Alejandra came up and said, you got something in the mail, and then I said, can you please put it in an envelope

that says surprise so that we can actually open it on Mike and have a fun surprise. You requested surprise? Yes. But she wrote big surprise, so it's even more exciting. So really act as if. What is it? What is it?

It's a letter from the people at Wienerschnitzel. Oh my god. Okay I need to tell you this because we got a card from Wienerschnitzel. I got a card. With that animated. Hot dog. Pixar style hot dog. The first time I saw a commercial with this hot dog, I believe was at the movie theater. And I laughed so hard. I was with my sister and she was like, what are you doing? It's not that funny. Like why?

Just an animated hot dog is your highest form of comedy to Karen. It don't get me. He's wearing like big weird shoes. He's wearing big, yeah, click. Chemistry teacher shoes. Yeah. Okay, read it. Okay. It says, Karen and Georgia, long time listener here. You've mentioned Wiedersnitzel several times. Oh yeah. Yeah, you know why? Because those chili cheese fries are fucking legit.

Because if you're the kind of American fast food restaurant that also serves beer, high five to you. Do they? Yeah, that one in Burbank. Oh. Fuck yeah. Okay. Several times.

And we love that you love our hot dogs. We hope this will help your hot dog summer to be even more amazing. And then it's signed, Mary Maury. And you know what they did? They sent us a shit ton of merch. Oh really? Alejandra's bringing some in. Oh my God, she's bringing it in.

Oh my God, your little plush hot dog. There's really all the hunters bringing some in. Oh my god. She's bringing it in That's for Vince's birthday, that's for this birthday present. Oh my god air smelly thing. I just smell like a hot dog It's for your car. Oh My god, does it that would be so genius? No, it smells good. Like something sweet. And then a hat, a trucker hat that says I heart wieners. So that's for... That's my new thing. Yeah, you love comedy like that.

Oh my god! Thank you Wienerschnitzel! Mary Mori, first of all, what a great name. And second of all, we got Wienerschnitzel. We got the official Wienerschnitzel stationery is what was used. You had told little Dorida, eating those mini corn dogs when she was like eight,

that someday Wienerschnitzel would listen to her podcast. She'd be like, what's a podcast? Yeah. It's 1988. She'd have a bunch of questions and she'd be like, hey, I'm sorry, but you're not allowed to be in here. Right. I'm home alone right now.

Are you supposed to be near kids? Cool, Okay. Wiener-Sitzel. Thanks. That was nice. That was our Wiener-Sitzel corner. Also just so you know, if you have a hot dog company of any kind and you would like to get in on this game, that was Mary Mori's idea, not our idea. That was not a plug. Well, it was, but only because they gave us free shit. Thanks for the free shit.

Did I tell you my dad had a hot dog franchise once? No. I guess I never talked about that,. No, not once. My parents divorced. He moved to Lake Arrowhead and opened a franchise, hot dog franchise called Junior's Hot Dogs. Oh. It didn't last but it was pretty exciting to be like the owner's daughter for a minute. Yes. Also in what you could arguably say is like a vacation spot. Oh yeah. A hot dog shop in a vacation spot. That's amazing. Yeah.

Man, I forgot all about that. Too seasonal? Maybe. I think I have a picture of it. I'll try to find one. Ask Marty what the main problem was. I'd love to know. Was it too hard to get those hot dogs up that hill?

The snow. No one wants to eat a hot dog in the snow. No. It's a proven fact. No. I mean, you come in out of the snow, but not when you're out in it. All right. That's enough. That's enough of us.

That's enough. Stop it. Let's do exactly right. Media highlight corner. The time has come for Lady to Lady's 600th episode with the iconic actor, French Stewart. You know him from Third Rock from the Sun. Everyone loves him. They took him to Las Vegas to go zip

lining to watch Magic Mike Live, to go to an escape room, and then on their drive back I heard about this. just the ladies, they got stuck in 12 hours worth of traffic. That's insane. It's supposed to take four hours to get to Los Angeles from Vegas. Yeah, they did like triple, a triple trip. Ew. And then Barbara Gray was on the local news. Oh, nice.

They interviewed her. Love it. And then legendary drag performer, Peaches Christ, joins Roz on Ghosted by Roz Hernandez to talk about spooky things. Spooky things. I'll never forget the day Peaches Christ started following me on Twitter.

Oh yeah, it's legendary. Yeah, I was very excited. Then over on That's Messed Up in SVU podcast, Karen Liza covered the SVU podcast, Karen and Lisa cover the SVU episode, Lowdown, from 2004 and have a chat with actor Michael Beach. And it's been a long time since we've reminded you to go ahead and join the fan cult. It's less than $3.50 a month, which is a mistake on our part, I feel like. It absolutely is. There's no reason we should be not charging people more.

Take advantage of that. Get in there. And in return, you get a $20 credit to the merch store, fun new weekly videos. We'll be putting up from the exactly right headquarters where we sit right now and an extra weekly mini mini-sode and more. So visit fancult.supercast.com to join. Join today. Hi.

We've been talking about different videos of like quote-unquote behind the scenes stuff. And you and I sitting here, like we were just both quietly looking at our papers and kind of getting ready for the show. And I was going to be like, there's your perfect before the show video. That's hot content right there. Just us sitting here being boring. Just the quietest room, two people, everyone's while someone clears their throat. I keep tagging Erin in the videos I want to make that I think we should make and all of them

involve like having to hold water in your mouth and whoever laughs first and spits all the water out like loses. But we do it in front of all the very expensive equipment we've just installed. Right. Yes. All of them. Like there's this tortilla slapping one that I really want to do. Have you seen it?

I don't think so. So stupid. Like where do you slap people? In the face with a tortilla. You put alcohol, you put liquid in your mouth, that's probably alcohol. And then you do rock, paper, scissors and whoever wins gets to slap the other person in the face with a tortilla. But you also have water in your mouth and it's so hilarious so you can't spit the water

out of your mouth. That sounds like a game someone would make up when it's around 3 30 in the morning at a party. Yeah. The people that won't leave start doing stuff like that. Yeah. Oh, God, that's so true. And then there's just water. They're all doing indoors for some second reason. Yeah. Oh, my God. Hey, Karen, you look worried. Yeah, I can't stop thinking about this movie from 2005 where Diane Lane says, I eat alone, usually standing over the sink. I don't want a bunch of chicken hanging around. Right. I just wish I could tell her about Home Chef.

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I saw it in a recent Cold Case Files episode and I had to cover it. It's an awful murder, happened in the 90s, and it was completely cold until DNA, this crazy DNA thing happened. And the main source they used for the story is that Cold Case case files episode and an episode of Dateline called the Music Box and the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So it's the morning of April 16th, 1992 in Oglom, Massachusetts. Heard of it? Yes. My family would summer there. And it's this tiny town. Like you wouldn't know it. It's just like tiny little local, everyone knows each other town.

Got it. A young woman named Sophia Maynard has just gotten to work that morning and she works at the store called Brittany's Card and Gift Shop. And it's so quaint, shop has a PPE on the end. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's this cute little storefront. I totally worked at one of these places when I was in high school. Just like your average like little gifty cards,

stationary, you know, kind of a store. My sister worked at Follow Your Heart, which was just like that. Nice, mine was called Paper Source, I think. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, I've seen Paper Source. Sorry, what year is this? This is 92.

92, okay. So way back. They sell things like mug, keychains, and pretty trinkets. And Sophia, who's just got there that morning, immediately sees that something is amiss. First her coworker Lisa's car is there in the parking lot. Lisa Ziegert is 24, and during the day she works as a teacher's aide at the local middle school. She typically works the evening shifts at the shop and then closes up.

So this time of day when Sophia shows up and is opening the store, Lisa should be at school already teaching. So when Sophia enters the shop, she realizes the door is unlocked, the lights are still on and the music is still playing. You know, if you ever opened or closed the store before, that means whoever was supposed to close the other night

didn't do anything. Didn't do anything. Any of those things. Which is very suspect. Very odd. Scary. Yeah. At first, Sophia wonders if Lisa left something at the store the night before and had just was like there just coming to pick it up, but quickly realizes that something is very

wrong because the store is totally empty. Lisa's nowhere to be found and her purse and coat are still behind the counter. It's just telltale signs. Sophia goes into the back room and sees that it's a mess. Afraid that someone could still be in the shop, Sophia runs to a neighboring business to call 911. LESLIE KENDRICK-KLEIN Smart. SONIA DARA When police arrive at the store, they note

that the cash register has its money in it. It's not been touched. Lisa's mother, Dee, had already gotten a call from the middle school where Lisa works with the receptionist saying that Lisa hadn't gotten to work that day, which is odd. At first, Lisa's mom thinks her daughter may be overslept, but then Lisa's sister, Lynn, gets a phone call from a friend telling her about the situation at the store. And at that point, they both know something is terribly wrong because Lisa would never leave the store like that.

Lisa's family says that Lisa is a small girl with a big personality, is how she's described. She's a talented artist. She's always sketching. She loves to go out dancing and has an outgoing bubbly personality. Of course, the middle school students that she teach adore her. She's funny. She's pretty. She's this cool young, you know, teacher's

assistant that they all love. So investigators get to the store and they comb, they comb it for clues. The door to the back room has a dent in it that looks like it was made by the heel of a shoe where someone kicked it and it looks like there was a struggle in the room. Boxes are flattened and there's a small amount of blood spatter on some of the boxes. The back room has a door that leads to an alley on the side of the strip mall that it's attached to and police believe Lisa was brought out that door and forced in the car police believe the attack happened between 830 and 850 p.m. Because the last transaction on the cash register was 820 and also a witness tells police that she entered the store around 9 p.m. and there was nobody

there but it was open. The store was supposed to close at 9.30, so somewhere in there something happened. And the night before the store had been busy. It was just a few days before Easter and there were a lot of people coming in and out of the store buying cards, decorations, and gifts to put in Easter baskets, that kind of thing. And then Lisa's sister Lynn had actually stopped by the store the night before and the two had chatted, caught up for a little bit, and everything was normal and fine. So police searched the area around the store, which is a lot of strip malls, and a big search

group goes out. All of Lisa's friends, her boyfriend, they all searched the wooded areas around Agawam, even though the days following Lisa's disappearance are cold and wet, rain, snow, but they are just determined to find their friend, to find Lisa. And her boyfriend in particular refuses to stop looking, continuing to search in the pouring rain over the next couple days. It's heartbreaking.

I know. On Easter Sunday, 1992, so just a couple days later, Lisa's body is found. A man had been walking his dog in the woods and he saw what he believed to be a woman's body lying on a slight hill. The spot is about three miles from the gift shop only. The spot can be accessed from a very narrow dirt road and because of all that like wintery mix that's been falling, the ground is very muddy. And so there are tire tracks leading to the spot.

So investigators believe Lisa was driven there. Lisa had been stabbed multiple times and she's found with some of her clothing pulled off. She has defensive wounds on her hand. Buttons from Lisa's clothing are found scattered around the area. And Lisa's autopsy shows that the cause of death was her stab wounds. And male DNA is also recovered from the body. And, you know, this is 92, so there's not much they can do with it at the time,

but they collect it, hoping in the future they will be able to. Lisa's family holds a funeral in a local funeral home, and thousands of people from all over come. They stand out in the rain to file through and pay their respects. Oh, heartbreaking.

I know. The community is devastated. Parents make their young adult daughters stay home from work. I mean, it's that working alone thing where you don't think about the fact that you're still alone. Yes. I just felt so safe and everything was fine. I was in my store, you know? Right. You don't think about it until something like this happens. Right. And then it's like, what are we doing? This is.

Because it's not fair. We should be able to fucking be alone and not be terrified. It's like a problem that just has, it just seems like we'll never solve it because we'll never talk about it because it's that thing of like, oh, right. A young woman can't be alone by herself. The solve isn't to not work at night. That's not a solve.

It's just like a band bandaid on a huge problem that has nothing to do with us being alone or shouldn't. Right. Yeah. So there's no evidence pointing to anyone in Lisa's circle. The town starts gossiping, of course. But the boyfriend is completely cleared. The local police department pulls out all the stops.

They go to the FBI. They go to the FBI. They go to even Interpol because there was some sketchy car that was seen in town. But everything leads to a dead end, but they insist that the case is never cold. The lead detective on the case, a man named Wayne Macy says, quote, I visited the grave quite often during the investigation just talking to her, letting her know we're not giving up. By 2003, Detective Macy retires. And again, this happened in 1992. So he'd been searching that whole time.

In his whole career, there were only eight murders in Agawam. And this is the only one that he leaves unsolved. So a new detective takes over the case. He starts out by revisiting every file on every person of interest that was ever started in the case. And there were a lot of people calling in tips, which sometimes complicates the situation, especially because it was a lot of women calling in about their husbands, ex-husbands, ex-boyfriends. There were tons of tips about these men that they thought were dangerous or capable of this kind of crime.

So there are a lot of those. Fast forward to 2016, and there's a big breakthrough in the case with our friend DNA phenotyping. Our best friend. Our best friend. The love of our life. This is one of the first big cases to use this new technique. So this is before they were doing the DNA like family tree stuff. Remember, they were just using it to generate a composite sketch of what the

person might look like based on their DNA? Oh okay. Remember those? So given the traits that are coded in their DNA, the district attorney unveils a new composite sketch of Lisa's unknown killer like you know shows eye color, where like their background, their heritage, that kind of thing. Right. So they show a man of dark hair and European ancestry. He looks like he could be a lot of people. In fact, the DA unveiling the sketch looks like the sketch. He himself. It's just like, it's so disappointing because you're like, that, it's not going to work.

Right. It's too general. It's too general. So, by the way, the DA was 12 at the time of the murder. So they even checked that to be like, that looks so much fucking like him and he was 12. So it's like not him. I mean, also kind of crazy though, because it's like, well, if it's anyone that looks

like me. I mean, like he's standing as the example of anybody kind of around this area. But still, it's such a weird, it feels like ancient history. It does. But it's so crazy how recent it was though, and how quickly we advanced technology, like how quickly technology was advanced from there. It seems like the kind of thing that would have happened in like the 90s. And now we can do DNA, you know, family tree stuff. But no, this was 2016. So congratulations to the smart people, scientists, Jesus. They must be so proud.

I would be. They should be. They should be. So obviously there's not time to go on with that. The investigators decide to go back to the files and they cull thousands of names. But what this phenotyping does do is show the general idea what someone's gonna look like.

So the investigators go back to the file and kind of try to match that general look and background and everything to the people who originally were suspects. And also the people who refused to give DNA samples when they had been questioned way back when, right? Because they can test the DNA now on the people that they tested it on, but the people who were like, hell no, were like, let's take a look and see if they are, have this general background. Are you of European descent? Do you have dark hair and European ancestry? And you're not playing along?

Right. And that's super weird. So, this gets them down to 11 names, which is pretty... That's great. Great, right? But it doesn't mean that he's one of those people. Right. They just have narrowed down who they even have.

Right. Exactly. In 2017, a judge grants a court order for investigators to collect DNA samples from those 11 men. So among those 11 men, I'm just going to tell you right now, is the fucking killer. Okay. Great news. Yep. It's a man named Gary Schera.

So back in 1993, when police were getting all those tips from women who were like, my ex-boyfriend, my husband is sketchy, and they got hundreds of those. Well, it turns out he was among those tips, which is why he's one of the 11 people on the list. Wow. Yep. In this case, his wife, who he was divorcing, was the one who called it in. And actually, it was her divorce attorney who called the Agawam Police Department.

So Gary's ex-wife Joyce said at the time that her suspicions were raised because of how interested in the case he seemed. And they were in the middle of like a bitter divorce. And she said that whenever it came on the news, he would run into the TV from the other rooms of the house to watch. Oh, that's very odd. Yeah. And it wasn't just that bit of odd behavior. Joyce realized that Gary came home very late the night Lisa was killed. And she also thought he was acting weirdly and sort of amped up and wild when he came home that night and he had cuts on his hand.

Also, the same night that he came home late, he brought Joyce a little trinket, a music box with a little horse, like a little jewelry box that plays music that had a little horse on it. Guess what they sold at Britney's Card and Gift Shop? Music boxes. I'll say investigators still aren't sure 100% that that came from the shop, but that's what they sold. That's the kind of thing they sold. And he brought her one home that night when he got home late and sketchy.

And he tells her that it's from Brittany's card and gift shop. So even if the police can't prove it, he's the one that brought in that, like, he's confirming it. He said that, and he said that he had bought it from a little old lady. Like, why is he giving her so much information? But no little old lady worked there. So that wasn't true completely. So it seems like that he got it from there.

So in 1993, back when Joyce reported this about her ex-husband, the fact that she was one of several women involved in divorces who was calling in a tip made police skeptical of her story. And she and Gary were in the middle of a bitter custody battle. She had moved across the country with their baby and he had reported that as an abduction. Still, police had contacted Gary at the time and his own divorce attorney ran some interference and discredited Joyce by telling police that she was struggling with alcoholism. So discredited her completely. When a newly detective took over the case in 2002, he had actually tried to speak to Gary again, this is before that DNA stuff, since he saw that no one had actually ever

talked to him. So Gary came in for the meeting, but he refused to give a DNA sample at the time, remember he was one of the 11. He said at the time that he was afraid of being secretly cloned, and that's why he refused to give DNA. Yeah. And the police know that it's weird, but people refusing to give them DNA without a warrant isn't illegal. They can't do anything about that.

Right. And people do it for all sorts of reasons. They won't do it. Right. Another time he was questioned by police and he wouldn't touch, there's a video of it, it's super creepy. He just sits there with his hands in his lap and won't touch a literal thing Like won't touch the table won't touch the chair They give him water obviously trying to get him to drink it and he won't

Because he also watches forensic files. Exactly knows exactly. Oh, yeah, but that's like not enough to get a warrant Unfortunately, just acting suspicious totally unfortunately to get a warrant, you know, unfortunately. Right, right, just acting suspicious. Totally. Unfortunately. But you know, I mean, what you can do is just follow them and pick up whatever they throw on the ground, right? But some of them won't throw stuff on the ground or throw stuff away. Well, someone that aware of exactly how it works,

that would be difficult. Totally, totally. So at the time the DNA phenotype is released and the 11 persons of interest are identified for DNA samples. Gary now is about 46 years old. He still lives in the area. He's dating a woman named Noelle Deloria.

Noelle is local to the area and remembers Lisa's case very well. She had been close to Lisa's age when she was killed. And Noelle's brother is actually an FBI agent and is well known because he was the lead investigator on the Boston Marathon bombing. Oh, wow. brother is actually an FBI agent and is well known because he was the lead investigator on the Boston Marathon bombing. Oh, wow. Yeah. So this, you know, this is probably a smart chick and knows what to look for.

Yeah. But to Noel and just about everyone else in Gary's life, with the major exception of his ex-wife, obviously, he's just a completely normal, unremarkable guy. Nothing to see here. He had been orphaned from a young age. He loved Batman and collected all sorts of Batman memorabilia. That was his thing. Batman was an orphan too.

Oh my God. Yeah. I forgot. Yeah. But over the two-ish years they've been dating, Noelle noticed two things about him that were kind of odd. The first is that he simply won't have sex, doesn't want to have sex with her at all.

It's upsetting to her at first, but then they settle into what feels like a kind of just companionable relationship that doesn't have any sex in it. The second thing is that he seems super wary of police and will like run and hide if there's like a large police presence somewhere. I mean, sorry, that's red flag. That's not even like slightly suspicious or like, huh, that's interesting. It's like, yeah, something's going on. Yeah. I mean, if it's someone you completely trust, though, like, would you even? I don't know. Yeah, that's weird. Trust no one. Trust no one is the best course of action. Okay, so now we're on September 17th, 2017. Police go to Gary's house with that court order for his DNA sample. Gary's not home, so now we're on September 17th, 2017. Police go to Gary's house with that court

order for his DNA sample. Gary's not home, so the officers tell his roommate to tell Gary that they need to speak with him as soon as possible because they have to serve him some important paperwork. And Gary's roommate passes along the message to Gary. And that night, Gary asks Noelle if he can spend the night at her place, which is unusual because it's a weekday. But the evening is uneventful. They eat dinner, they watch TV, and they go to bed. And the next morning, Noel leaves for her nursing shift before Gary gets up. And when she gets home that evening, Gary isn't there, but there are three pieces of

paper on the kitchen table. So the first piece of paper, I'm going to read from it to you. It's a letter to Noel, and it says, quote, you're going to find out some awful things about me today. I'm gonna read from it to you. It's a letter to Noelle and it says, quote, you're gonna find out some awful things about me today. They will tell you I abducted, raped, and murdered a young woman approximately 25 years ago. It is true.

All of it. I had no intention of killing her when I grabbed her, but events spun out of my control. And in the eyes of the law, it is all the same. Yeah, dude. I have never regretted anything so much. I have never really been or felt normal. From a very young age,

I was fascinated by abduction and bondage. I could never keep it too far from my mind for long. On that fateful day, I let myself do something terrible. I've never forgiven myself of that. I also never did anything like that again. I hated what happened. I despised myself. I thought of turning myself in hundreds of times over the years, but I am truly a coward. Today it will all end. I will either take my life or face the music

as it were." End quote. AMT – I feel like this is the reason I never want to hear the killer's side. LB – Yeah. AMT – It's just like, it's never satisfying. It's never it's like you should have turned yourself in. Yeah. A letter like this doesn't make any difference. Your intentions don't make a difference. Totally. A girl is dead. Totally. I mean it's just so the idea of like sitting down and really rationalizing something so fucked up. Yeah. Is and then the idea that we're so used to it.

It is that kind of thing of like well, but yeah, you know, he he's from a good family. It doesn't matter. Intentions. Yeah, all of that stuff is just like what you used to be obsessed with or whatever. It's like you should have gone to a therapist. You should have taken care of it. You should have got ahead of it. Yep. Yep. Too mean? Well, he's a murderer. of it. Yep. Yep. Too mean? Well, he's a murderer. 100%. The other pieces of paper are a handwritten will and a short letter to the Ziegert family apologizing for killing Lisa. Noel takes the letters straight to the police, obviously, and using cell phone GPS, police find Gary at a hospital in Connecticut. In his car, he had swallowed a handful of ibuprofen in an attempt to take his own life, but then had second thoughts and sought medical attention

at the hospital. So, while he's being treated, police search Gary's home. They get a DNA sample from a toothbrush. They send it for testing and the results come back the next day as a match to the DNA that was recovered from Lisa's body. Gary is charged with Lisa's murder and eventually pleads guilty in September of 2019, 27 years after he murdered Lisa Ziegert. Lisa's family are in court that day and are relieved to see justice served so many years later. The one person who never got to see that justice was Gary's ex-wife Joyce, the one who so many

years before, you know, sounded the alarm. She did continue to struggle with alcoholism after her divorce from Gary and sadly died at the age of 48 in 2014. And that struggle was used to discredit her when her lawyers told police about Gary in the first place. But investigators now say that she's a hero. If she hadn't told her lawyer about her suspicion, Gary would have never been on the police's radar in the first place and his name never would have been one of those 11 that were targeted for DNA testing.

Yeah. Isn't that wild? It's incredible. Thank God she did that. I know. And also that idea where it's like the person saying the information, like you and whatever I'm gonna tell you, I'm just gonna say almost the same thing over and over. It's like that rationalization to basically look for a reason not to listen to women.

Or just like, man, that's too bad. Totally. Gary is sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. After his sentencing, Detective Wayne Macy, the original detective on the case, visits the Ziegerts and they hug and cry. And then he buys a rose and brings it to Lisa's grave with a card that says, quote, Lisa, it's done. Rest in peace. And that is the story of the murder of Lisa Ziegert.

God. I know. I know. I feel like stories like that are so incredibly tragic and needless. I know. I feel like stories like that are so incredibly tragic and needless. I know. It's like needless in that way of like, why couldn't that man just get a hold of what he was going through or somehow take responsibility? And instead it's like, but I couldn't and my intentions were different. It's like, but I couldn't and my intentions were different. It's like, yeah.

That's what bothers me about cold cases that aren't solved is they are so tragic and they're not as interesting as a cold case makes it sound. Like let's just put that person in prison and give this family justice. It's not this big scary monster. It's not a big mystery. It's some fucking guy who couldn't control himself Yeah, let's close this case so we don't have to continue to like make it seem Somehow more magical than it fucking is right also. It's odd because it's

Like the background too or just like I could have sworn there was gonna be at least some other stories about that person being have sworn there was going to be at least some other stories about that person being dangerous in a way that went end up on his record. But it's like a one-off kind of thing that then just makes you start thinking about all those one-offs in the world. So many. Wow. And then like how many of those cases have the DNA on file, have the name of the suspect on their suspect lists and just haven't connected them yet? Right.

You know, but then also his letter admitting to it kind of meant that the family didn't have to go through a trial as well. It's almost... You have to not that we're looking to give him credit in any way, but there are plenty of people, plenty of men who kill women and just never admit it won't ever do anything and try to work the system and try to, you know, get appeals and whatever. At least he did that. That he does get credit for. But we didn't have to be here.

No, not at all. Hey, Karen, have you ever wished you could escape into a new world while you're stuck in traffic? You had me at escape. Well, with Audible, you can turn your boring commute into a thrilling adventure, dive into stories that captivate your imagination, and make every drive a journey. With thousands of titles released each year, Audible has the best selection of audiobooks,

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to try Audible free for 30 days. Audible.com slash murder. Goodbye. Hey Georgia, do you think people avoid investing because it seems too complicated? Yeah, or is it because they don't think they have enough money to start? Well, either way, we're here to tell you that investing can be easy with Acorns. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing for your future.

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investment advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com slash murder. Goodbye. All right. lash murder. Goodbye. All right. Can you make a U-turn? I'm going to stop this car and slap everyone in the backseat. I'm in a real, real luxury mom phase now. But then I'm gonna hook a 180 and we're getting out of here. Okay, that's a lot of turning around. Yeah, we got to turn it all the way around, bright eyes. We're going to go to Antwerp, Belgium. If you had me guess 1,000 guesses of what country Antwerp is in, I would have never landed on Belgium. This is a no-fault podcast.

Thank God. This is a no-knowledge podcast. But luckily, we have great researchers. Okay, so it's the early 2000s, Antwerp, Belgium, and an Italian gem dealer named Leonardo Notarbaltalo, who's a snappy dresser in his early 50s, moves confidently through the streets of the city's small and bustling diamond district. So this three-block area, the diamond district, is a hot spot of the global gem trade.

80% of the world's raw diamonds pass through this area. And with them, of course, hundreds of millions of dollars stream through Antwerp on a regular basis. So there's an organization in Antwerp called the Antwerp World Diamond Center, and it occupies a large office building in that district. And according to a 2015 report from the Antwerp World Diamond Center, around $220 million in diamonds moves through Antwerp every single day.

Damn. So, every day. That's too many days. It's so many dollars. So, Leonardo isn't That's too many days. It's so many dollars. So Leonardo isn't exactly a power player in this industry. He only does business in Antwerp a few days a month, but he's incredibly charismatic. He's a good dresser, as I said. So he manages to charm his way into renting his own modest office in the Antwerp World

Diamond Center office building. When he signs the lease they don't do any kind of a background check on him. If they did they might find that while he does do some legitimate business selling diamonds what he really does for a living is steal. And at this point he has around a dozen robberies under his belt. And now after years of planning, Leonardo is ready to pull off one of the most ambitious diamond heists the world has ever seen. He's going to rob the high security vault

that sits in the basement of the Antwerp World Diamond Center. Dude, I mean, aim for the fucking top, I guess. Aim for the basement, baby, that's where all the diamonds are. So this is the story of Leonardo Noter-Battallo and his league of Italian thieves known as the School of Turin

and one of the most audacious jewel heists of all time. Damn. So the main sources used in this story are a book called Flawless, Inside the Largest Diamond Heist in History by Scott Andrew Selby and Greg Campbell, an article by a writer named Joshua Davis called The Untold Story of the World's Biggest Diamond Heist, which was from Wired Magazine, and a History Channel mini-documentary called The 100 Million Dollar Diamond Heist.

Also, if this is a topic that interests you, you might like to know that here at Exactly Right, we have a limited series that came out last year, I think, called Infamous International that's about the pink panther diamond heisters. Anyway, when I'm done here, you got the taste, you can't, you need a little more, go listen to that, it's really good. And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So So it all begins in Italy in the 1950s when Leonardo is just a boy. He's young but he's already started stealing. It's his passion from childhood. When he's just six years old in 1958, his mom sends him out to pick up some milk. Leonardo finds the milkman

sleeping on the job, so he takes the opportunity to go through his pocket. Oh my God. And comes home with about 5,000 lira, which back then was worth around $10. Today is about $100. Yeah. So it's a formative experience for Leonardo. He loves the feeling.

So by the time he becomes a teenager, he's become skilled at picking locks and stealing cars Like he's in it in that lifestyle I feel like picking locks is a skill that I wish I had learned and maybe we'll learn at some point in my life Could we take a class? I'd love to learn how to see like there should be Cuz every time I see it in a movie It's like you have to put one thing in that's holding something up or down and then the actual pick goes in.

Yeah. And then they get excited when they see like a little more complicated one. It's like a challenge. Right. I want to do that. I mean, it is really cool. It is. Also, I had a locksmith come once to do, we were trying to figure out if he needed to

knock the whole thing out or if he could do it. And I watched him do it for a little while and it was pretty great. Yeah. Yeah, it's really sad. Yeah Okay in his 20s Leonardo starts dreaming up bigger robberies like jewel heists in his 30s He puts together teams of thieves with different specialties Some are experts at opening safes some at disarming alarms others at tunneling into buildings He's a total Jason Statham. He's the guy that's like, let's get the whole gang together. And this gang basically becomes known as the School of Torin after the Italian city that they're based in. So by the early

2000s, Leonardo has become a seasoned thief with a network of these tried and true accomplices, but he does conduct just enough legitimate business to provide the perfect cover for this criminal activity. He also has his foot firmly planted in Antwerp's Diamond District because that's where thieves like him can break down stolen jewelry and move the gems, collect the cash, and then get back out of town as quickly as possible. So it's like an important place for him to actually have some ties. Right. Of course, it's high risk work, but Leonardo is careful and methodical. And he's also ambitious. I'll send you a little picture. Oh, are you in love? A little bit. Oh, he's handsome. That guy opens the door for you, puts his hand on the small of your back to help you through the door, pulls out your chair. You try to order.

No, no, no. That's not what you want. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. The lady will have... I order for you. He orders for you. You do your steak.

I love him. I don't know what that accent was, but okay. You've got to love an Italian man. You must. So it doesn't take long for the school of Turin to set their sights on a uniquely challenging heist which is stealing from the vault in the Antwerp World Diamond Center's basement. There's got to be an easier fucking way. I think that's why they picked it. It's because it truly, I'm gonna describe to you what it

involves and it is hilarious. It's like clearly this is about the doing of it and being known for having done it. Okay. I'm like, do half of it and take a nap. Just get out of there. Like you're fine. Call in sick. I broke my tooth. I can't break into your vault today. Leonardo, of course, is familiar with it because the lease for his office in that building allows him to rent a safe deposit box there, which he does.

So he has his stuff down there, which enables him, of course, to then go look at it and investigate. So he learns on doing that is that this vault is outfitted with multiple overlapping security measures and it sits in perhaps the most surveilled and policed part of the entire Diamond District, the secure Antwerp Diamond Area. So that area itself, and then of course, obviously, this huge vault within it, are known to be impossible to break into. But Leonardo's up for the challenge, and so he and his colleagues spend two years investigating exactly how they're

going to pull off this heist. Leonardo actually walks around with hidden cameras around the Diamond District so he can watch how the police work and how they monitor the area and how security guards, who covers what and when. He also studies the vault itself. And here are his big takeaways from studying the vault. There are barricades to prevent any vehicles from entering the secure Antwerp Diamond area, which is, of course, where the vault is. So the thieves have to walk on foot by the police booths that are stationed around there. So first you have to kind of get by there on foot. It's not like you can just drive in.

Oh, okay. Next, they'll need credentials to get into the building. Once inside, they'll have to go two floors down to the vault level. Now, all of this is constantly monitored by the building security guards, and those security guards have apartments on site. So they're serious about this kind of constant surveillance. Once on the vault level, they will immediately be met with the vault door, and it is serious business.

It weighs three tons, made of steel, it's a foot thick, and it's surveilled by a security camera, I think at all times. So opening that door requires inputting a special code with a dial that has over a hundred million possible combinations. So it's like your high school locker gone insane. They'll also need the vault's footlong key, which is described as, quote, impossible to duplicate.

So it's a big old key. Like once you get all past all those things, then here comes the key you have to have and that key actually breaks into two pieces so the diamond centers security guards can store those two pieces separately. Oh my god dude just go to a fucking I mean they're just like secure secure secure. There's a place that probably has two steps go there. I know but this guy's like no yeah I'm playing the long game. This is going to be, if those, if me ripping off the milkman felt that good, imagine what this is going to feel like. Okay, I guess. So the vault's exterior is outfitted with two magnets that

when turned toward each other create a magnetic field across the door. If the field is broken during the building's off hours, like if it's unexpectedly open somehow, an alarm goes off. And then there's a steel grate, and then there's a seismic center, which will detect any drilling. The thieves had to get past all of that, and that's just the door. Once they get inside the vault, there's a light sensor, there's a heat sensor, there's a motion sensor, and they all need to be disarmed before they can do anything. So if a thief makes it that far, then they're tasked with the job of opening 189 individual safe deposit boxes. So it's not like you get inside the vault and it's gold, pile, it's Scrooge McDuck

type of thing. It's like, no, everything is in its own era. God, I would love to go through those, though. All I want. You're allowed to go through them, but you can't take a single thing. You can't steal anything. But you can just open it. Go through them.

Look at it. Yeah, read the letters. If there's videotape, you can watch it. Yeah, the deathbed confessions. Audio tape, ugh. Just, or just some weird, something weird. What of the tiny little audio tapes called, like a voice... Micro cassette? Yeah.

Like you can listen to those. Ugh. Some teeth. You know there's shit like that in there. Just some teeth. There's just teeth and it's like, wait, are those children's teeth? Grandma? Grandma, why is this in here?

Grandma, why are there 12 pairs of children's teeth in here? I thought we were just getting stocks and bonds, Grandma. Oh, God. I know we've already asked for this, but if anyone has ever worked with and around and in safety deposit boxes, please tell us things you saw and what you learned. We need stories for the mini-sodes. God damn. Myfavorimurderatgmail, send it.

You're obligated by law. Yes. I didn't know if you knew that, but it's an FDIC regulation. That's right. I love when I get lost in these fucking stories. D2. The magnets kind of blow my mind. Yeah, that's where I was like, no. It's turning into like a Sean Connery movie.

Totally. Where you're like, okay, and then you have to drop in from the ceiling. Totally. So Leonardo knows this about everything he has to get through and the fact that once he gets in, it's all safety deposit boxes Because of his own he knows they're made of steel and copper They can only be opened with their own set of keys and lock combinations So they themselves have you know, it's utmost security obviously

What if he opened every box and stole them and he left his clothes and it was just like so obvious It was him because it was the only one that was left closed. No Don't put your finger at me. Oh shit. We'll see. Just dog-ear that idea. So now it's the second week of February 2003. Antwerp is a buzz. It's Valentine's week. Oh yeah. Venus Williams is in town for Marin wrote a huge tennis tournament. Is it the Paris Open? It's not Paris. Oh, that's right. I'm gonna guess no. I don't know anything about tennis. Oh my god. I was like, I read that and I was just like, come on. It's the Antwerp Regionals. The prize at this huge tennis tournament is a golden diamond-encrusted tennis racket. Damn.

This is how diamond, like, identified, diamond-coated Antwerp is. There's also going to be a high-profile wedding of one of the city's top diamond officials. You, too, could be a diamond official. Wow. Ah. Amidst all that, the School of Turin has planned their heist for that Saturday, February 15th, 2003, right in the middle of all those festivities. So around midnight that night, the School of Turin men pile into a rented car. They head toward the Diamond District, which is now completely emptied out. They

ditch the car on the road that borders the district and they set out on foot headed for the Antwerp World Diamond Center's garage which is conveniently located out of direct view of the nearest police kiosk. So it sounds to me like those kiosks are like intermittent and they found like a way to get in that no one can see. So there are security cameras in the garage and around the building itself, but the feed is recorded on tapes inside the building, not transmitted to outside security like the police. Got it.

So basically they're just rolling tape and like, but they only check it if something happens. Right. So as long as the School of Torren guys remember to grab the security tapes on the way out There will be no video evidence. Why are you mentioning that Karen? I don't know. I just like to drop hints and have fun Using a homemade remote control that transmits radio signals the band of brothers open the garage door slip inside There they use a key they've created themselves to unlock the only door inside the entire Antwerp World Diamond Center that isn't protected by a camera and

does not require an ID badge to enter. You would think with all that security they would locate the one door. Like don't leave a one. There's one and it's connected to the garage that's out of sight of cameras. It's like there's always that, you know. And the movie would be like, come on, all the other ones are covered, but this one's not? But it's not.

But it's not. From here, they head down the stairwell to the vault, completely undetected. They put electrical tape over the security camera lens, and then they start working on the vault door. I honestly think they did a movie about this because when I was reading this part of Marron's research, I was like, part of Marin's research, I was like, this literally, I can see the Statham movie, that I've seen this already.

So one of their biggest hurdles as they're doing this is the magnetic sensor. Sure, magnets, how do they work? Was that like 20 years ago? It was so long ago. I mean, it truly feels like I was in my 20s when that happened, and's no way. It's still funny. It's so funny. Look at that kids. It's a valid question. Also what do you say a seagull ate my cell phone? There's another line in that thing that is the first time I heard it I was like this

can't be real it's so funny. Except fucking break dancing of 20 years ago. It's the Olympic break dancer of 20 years ago. It's the Olympic break dancer of 20 years ago So they already took care of the magnetic sensor a couple days before one of the guys in the school of Toran used Leonardo's ID badge to get inside and then he disarmed it by carefully Unbolting the magnets that created the field and using a piece of metal to keep the field intact, he just moved the whole system over a few inches away from the door without being caught by the on-duty security guard. I mean, when you're good, you're good.

So it's that thing, remember those really popular across your steering wheel locks things? Oh, I have one of those, the club. The club. And then people are like, right, if you just come here and just saw this off, you're fine. Like, it's like there was one spot on it where it's like, oh yeah, you just get that right there. It just looks intimidating, but it's fucking not. Tell everybody that you've got the club. Right. My dad made all of us use one.

Yeah, everyone I knew had one. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. So long ago. It's so funny. So now the School of Torrent Thieves have two major hurdles to deal with. So now the School of Torrent Thieves have two major hurdles to deal with. The impossible to duplicate footlong key and that dial with all the combinations. So before the heist, Leonardo notices that the building security guards almost always stop into a nearby utility closet before and after entering the vault.

So he thinks that's interesting. He wonders maybe if they're stashing the key in there just because it's easier. And sure enough, he gets into that closet and he finds the key in there. Not two pieces separately, the whole key unbroken. They got lazy. Yeah, they did.

Also, it's like how much of a pain in the ass did they make it so that they're just like, just put it in there. Totally. It's no big deal. If they get this far, then fucking. But I do think that's the brilliance of like the long-term career thieves where this guy rented an office so that he, but it took him five years to find out that that's what they

were doing. Yeah. It's amazing. Okay. To this day, the men from the school of Torren won't admit how they figured out the vaults combination. The most prominent theory is that they installed a tiny camera near that door and then they just watched guards enter it and like worked on it.

In any case, they get past that part and that's the last guard and they get into the vault. They successfully open the vault, still undetected. So then a member of their crew, and it's presumably the tallest member of their crew, walks into the pitch black vault, reaches up toward the ceiling, puts a layer of tape over the light sensor, and then flip, they can flip on the lights and work as they would like. The vault's heat and motion sensors were disabled with hairspray. So basically they spray hairspray in there, makes it unable to detect temperature changes or movement in the room, and then

they put a styrofoam box on top of it for good measure. I mean what if it hadn't worked? You know, it's like they got to try that multiple times. I mean I wonder if in their smaller heists they got all of this experience knowing exactly how to use all of these things. So now that the thieves can freely move around the vault, they start tackling, opening the individual safe deposit boxes. One by one, this is Maren's wording, one by one they bust them open using a contraption that they've made. So basically they make a thing that looks like a corkscrew. It goes into the box's keyhole. You hand crank it and then it builds up the pressure and then basically pops the doors right off. So

they just start doing that and just blowing open box after box. Over the next several hours, the thieves get inside 109 of the 189 safe deposit boxes in the vault by using that tool. They grab all the diamonds and other gems like rubies and pearls, as well as gold, silver, cash, and various world currencies, and of course, many, many baby teeth. Around 5.30 in the morning, the men take their spoils up to the ground floor, and on the way out of the building, they stake out near the security office. There's no guard inside. So they pick the doors locked and they take those security tapes and they carefully exit the building and make their way

back to the getaway car. So it's hard to know exactly how much they ended up stealing. It's eventually ballparked around $100 million. Holy shit. Which is, in 2024 money, $170 million. Some sources place the value much higher at up to half a billion dollars. Yeah, because who knows what was in those boxes, but the people who knew and wouldn't tell you exactly what was in them. Yes, because there's things in there that are not money that are incredibly valuable, perhaps priceless.

Right. And perhaps already stolen. So they're not going to be like, my stolen diamond was in this box. That was stolen. You know, there's Nazi gold in there. For sure. All kinds of like shit from World War II that people should not have, should have turned in long before.

Absolutely. Okay. So at this point, all the men from the school of Torin, all they need to do is head south to Italy. If they make it there, they're essentially home free because as experts Scott Andrew Selby and Greg Campbell describe it, quote, at the time, it was very difficult to get Italy to extradite one of its citizens for a nonviolent crime, no matter how dramatic the financial impact.

Okay, Italy. End quote, right? You cover for your boys. I like their style. Yeah, yeah. No snitches. No. So the guys split up into different cars.

Leonardo is with a friend of his that he will only identify as speedy. They ride together and they have two huge garbage bags filled with evidence that they need to get rid of. There's those stolen surveillance videos, receipts for the items that were purchased for the heist, other odds and ends from the planning sessions that Leonardo held in his apartment in Antwerp. Like they bagged it all up and they're like, we have to get rid of this. So the plan was they were gonna stop somewhere remote during their trip back to Italy and burn everything in this big trash bag According to Leonardo they found a suitable option just outside of Brussels on a rugged dirt road

Right off a highway that leads into a patch of woods So they pull over Leonardo climbs out of the car He goes and walks deeper into the woods and looks around for a discreet place that they can have this bonfire. He finds the perfect spot near what looks like an abandoned looking shed and a small pond. He walks back through the woods, back to the car to get the garbage bag. But as he approaches the car, he sees that Speedy is in a state of panic. He's grabbing things out of the garbage bag and flinging them into the woods and throwing them everywhere and telling Leonardo, I think someone's coming. Joshua Davis writes this for his Wired magazine piece, quote, the

contents of the garbage bag was strewn amongst the trees. Speedy was stomping through the mud, hurling paper into the underbrush. Spools of videotape clung to the branches like streamers on a Christmas tree. Israeli and Indian currency skittered past a half-eaten salami sandwich. The mud around the car was flecked with dozens of tiny glittering diamonds. Dude, you gotta chill. Just throwing shit, just freaking out and throwing stuff. So now Leonardo has to make a decision. He is almost positive that Speedy is just being paranoid and freaking out, that no one's

actually coming, but it'll take hours for them to clean up everything Speedy has just thrown around. And so Leonardo just decides they're going to leave everything where it is and they're just going to hightail it to Italy because they know once they get past the border, yeah. And it's such a remote area that he's like, by the time anyone finds this, we'll be long gone. It won't matter. So a few hours later, we're back in Antwerp. It's the morning of Sunday, February 16th, 2003,

and a security guard enters the vault in the Antwerp World Diamond Center, and he sees it's in a state of chaos. The floor's covered with safe deposit boxes, with the doors blown off. All the loot the robbers couldn't make off with is laying on the ground, documents, jewels. There's a gold bar just lying there next to some of the thieves' tools. You think he grabbed a diamond and put it in his security guard pocket?

Well, everything's disabled. That's like a true test of like, true test of, you know, how much do you care about being a security guard? Totally. Yeah. Because then you're like, what are those teeth? My collection of teeth is now complete. Perfection. And then just weird, like his eyes turn black.

Sorry, that's a different movie. And there actually is, their tools are sitting there like there is just a crowbar sitting in the middle of this pile of stuff, which is, as I wrote, the final fuck you from the school of Torrin. And it says, you clean it up. Yeah, they didn't try to be subtle or like, did something happen here? No. It's just like.

No, they're like, oh, it's too late now. So not long after this, Leonardo and his crew arrived back in Italy. They're, of course, stoked. They pulled off an impossible heist. They actually did this thing. I mean, it must have felt great. And it really must have peaked because at that point, they couldn't have known how big of a lead the police are about to be given or that the fact that their fate now rests

in the hands of a 59-year-old retiree named August Van Camp. So, as Joshua Davis succinctly and hilariously reports, quote, August likes weasels. And what he means by that is August Van Camp has two pet weasels, Mickey and Minnie, and he takes those weasels on walks in the forest outside of Brussels. Oh, shit. He enjoys this activity so much that in the late 90s, he buys a strip of land about five minutes away from his house, bordering on a nearby highway, and according to Joshua Davis,

quote, if you ignored the sound of cars hurtling past at 80 miles an hour, it was a pretty 12 acres of trees with a gurgling stream. And a seemingly abandoned shack. Mm-hmm. It's perfect for August and his two weasels, except for one thing. August feels like people don't respect his property, and he's a little keyed up about it. Because the highway is so close by,

he is very used to finding a bunch of litter that passersby toss from their car windows, and it lands on his property. Also once local teenagers decided to throw a party there and they burnt down a small shed that August had actually built himself. Fuck guys. So it's not you know, people are like, what is this abandoned? Do we come and bring our fires here? That's like everyone's reaction. He's like, no, we're just I'm trying to relax with my varmints. So on the morning of Monday, February 17th, less than two days after the heist,

August finds a bunch of junk in the underbrush on his property and he is furious. The luck, just the shitty luck right there of all the things they got away with. Something that looks like no one's there, but it actually has the most pissed off retiree that's like, they did it again. Yeah. So, August takes a quick inventory of this garbage, realizes it's not run-of-the-mill litter,

because like most people in Belgium, August has already heard about this heist. Oh, okay. It's all over Antwerp. I mean, that's the business, right? Yeah. So they hear about it. So August rushes home and he calls the police. But this isn't the first time that August has called the police about litter. He's actually maybe well known. And normally his anger falls on deaf ears,

which sucks, it isn't fair. But this time August mentions the videotape and the documents with the words Diamond Center and Twerp written on them, and police respond immediately, and they begin to comb the forest. Investigators are able to tie the trash back to the heist in Antwerp, and among all the evidence, they find an invoice form

linked to Leonardo's business, with his full name and contact information on it. Like, get a shredder at Staples. They're like, you just go to Staples and get a shredder. They're not expensive. They're not. They're surprisingly affordable. They don't last long, but they fucking-

But they shred. They sure shred. Like early Van Halen, they shred. But the funniest thing is like this is a man who's dedicated his life to doing this correctly. It's just heartbreaking. It's kind of unforgivable. Yeah, it is. But to him, to himself.

Yeah. Also, the invoices for a surveillance system that he purchased specifically for low light environments, like very trace backable to the heist. So the investigators start off with Leonardo. They learn that he has a safe deposit box in the same vault that was just robbed. So they go see if anything he owns is missing. And it turns out Leonardo's one of the few boxes left untouched. Hey! You really saw that one coming. That's so dumb. Which, yes again. Go

rifle through your own shit. Go take it and bring it. You're gonna have to put it somewhere else anyway. Get it. Yeah. Just a little bit of planning. Imagine what his birthday month is like. It's just fucking mayhem. It's like, oh, this far tonight, now I'm changing my mind. Now we're gonna go on a boat. Oh my God. Here's my gift registry. And you're like, what are you doing? No, you're not having a baby. You're turning 52. It's not that big of a deal. Leonardo, no. Okay, fine. I'll buy you a tie. So now the investigators just wait.

But they don't have very long to wait. A few days after the heist, on Friday, February 21st, 2003, Leonardo makes the huge mistake, I think, and very risky decision of traveling back to Antwerp. Why? So he has two reasons. He has to return the rental car. No, it better be love. If it's not love, I'm going to be fuck.

He's not madly in love with fucking some Belgian person. It's not love. It hurts. He has to fucking return that car. That's what I should have thought of that first. You don't borrow a car? Yeah. An untraceable. Steal a car. What? Steal a car.

Anything. You can pick these locks. You can turn magnets against each other and you can't fucking figure out this part. So he has to return a rental car. And then he also thinks it's important for him to show up at his office in the Diamond District to act like nothing's going on. It's not me. What happened? Dude, he wanted to get caught. You're telling me there's no camera on that door in the garage? That's crazy. So he is stunned when he's arrested shortly after arriving in town. He's uncooperative. He refuses to give up the names of his accomplices. Oh, but police eventually arrest three more Italian men in connection

with the robbery because they all signed their fucking, you know, their memory book and then put it in the garbage bag and threw it into the forest. How you doing? How you doing? One of these men who investigators think is speedy, but no one will confirm, is arrested after they analyzed Leonardo's cell phone SIM card. Another, who's linked to several robberies back in Italy, is taken into custody after his business card is found among the garbage in the woods. Come on, friends. His literal business card.

Let me just leave this here. I'm going on a heist. What would I need? Well, I'll need my business cards. Investigators tracked down the third suspected thief through the half-eaten slob. No. Slob, which was found with the other garbage. That sounds fake.

The sandwich has a wrapper that says, quote, antipasto Italiano on it. So that matches a line item on a receipt found in Leonardo's Antwerp apartment. Guys. It was so good and so smart. So good. It's like someone else took over after they left the vault. Yes. You know? It's like their wives planned the actual heist and they planned this. They planned the getaway. That's very insulting though because they planned the real one.

So the investigators head to the deli where this purchase was made. They use the time stamp from the receipt. I mean, it's just, you know what I'm about to tell you. They're in the deli, putting their fingers up in the air and going, Abundanza, pizza for one. They find the purchaser of the sandwich. He's arrested. The cases against all four men, Leonardo included, are bolstered by DNA evidence found inside the vault at Leonardo's apartment and in the discarded evidence, as well as a handful of marked diamonds and cash found in two of the thieves' possessions. So it's not just circumstantial sandwiches. No, it is not.

Stuck and legit. It's provable sandwiches. These men are eventually charged and convicted for their roles in the heist. Leonardo is the ringleader. He's handed a 10-year sentence, but he's paroled after four. The other three men get five-year sentences. It's suspected that a fifth person could have been involved. Authorities don't know who they are. The stolen surveillance tapes from the Antwerp World Diamond Center, which could shed more light on all who was involved, have never been recovered.

They're out in the forest. They are. Those weasels pissed on them. Oh, and then some birds took them up into the most beautiful nest. The circle of life. Right? The tapes dumped in the woods are quickly handed over to specialists who attempt to repair them, but some are too damaged to fix. Others contain content unrelated to the heist, so it just doesn't work out. In any case, by 2009, Leonardo is out of prison

on good behavior. And I just want to say this, like, we always talk about that kind of stuff, but when, like, that thing of sentences not being long enough, we are talking about serial killers... Violent crimes. And serial rapists. Yeah. Violent human-based crimes. They get that.

Okay, good. I just want to underline that one. They're with us. And also, hey, Italian. Italian. that. Okay, good. I just want to underline that one. And also, hey, Italian. Italian. Hey, let them out. And also, but at the same time, Belgian prisons have to be probably, right? A dream. I bet they're like little IKEA fucking showrooms. You get all these gummy bears. Gummy bears. Yeah, bears, for your morale. Your perfect little cheese sandwich for lunch every day. Okay. Oh. In the years since the heist, Leonardo spun an interesting story

about what went down in Antwerp. It's unclear whether or not it's true. Leonardo tells Joshua Davis of Wired Magazine that he and the other men were set up in an insurance scheme. Yeah. Yeah. The people orchestrating the heist were a group of powerful diamond dealers, maybe.

According to Leonardo, those dealers had taken their valuables out of the vault ahead of the robbery, provable, right? In fact, he claims that he and his crew only made away with about $20 million in valuables that night, all of which were stolen from an apartment in Milan where they stashed it afterwards. So essentially, we went in, we stole all this money, we got to keep this much, and then they even stole that back from us.

Okay, alright. This could be a lie, obviously, and many people are indeed skeptical of Leonardo's story. This version of events suggests that the thieves gained nothing from the entire heist. To this day, we have no idea where the stolen goods wound up, and it's been the cause of a long-standing heartbreak for the people who had those safe deposit boxes, losing, of course, extremely valuable items, but also deeply sentimental family heirlooms that were stashed there, and then, of course, their creepy, creepy secrets that were now revealed.

Oh, my God. Just tell me one creepy secret. Oh, please. The Antwerp World Diamond Center's vault obviously had a lot of very, very sensitive stuff in it because it was known as like the height of security. Yeah, impenetrable. It was the place to be. Regardless, as Greg Campbell has said, quote, the ironic thing is that eventually, inevitably,

I think many, if not most of the stolen gems were ultimately recirculated through Antwerp. It's the logical place to unload as many as possible. And since the Diamond Center is the largest office building in that section, it's conceivable that many of the diamonds were stolen from the vault and ended up back in the vault. And that's the story of Leonardo Noto Bertolo, the school of Turin, and the 2003 Antwerp diamond heist. Wow. Oh wait, I have a picture of the forest.

Oh yeah, I want to see that. Look at this fun. Got the weasels there too. I love them. I love a weasel. Side by side weasels. Oh, wait, you can see this is the bank vault and the forest. So it basically is like.

Oh, shh. Oh, that's a mess. Before and after. That looks like my bedroom in high school, the vault. For real. Damn. How many diamonds were in that trash pile, do you suppose? I know.

I love that idea of diamonds in the mud. Still there. People still go there with like their... Can you find a... Is it diamond metal? No. No, it isn't. Can't go with a metal detector. No, you just have to get in there with your little grubby hands. Yeah. And then all you find are teeth. Where are all these teeth coming from?

Surprise, surprise. Surprise, surprise. Wow. Great job. Great job. Thank you. Fun one. Great job, Maren. Sorry about the family heirlooms, but you know. But you'll be okay. Yeah. Just move over to your other safe deposit box and get your other family heirlooms. Yeah. If we know anything from the mini-sodes that grandmas do is get, you know, you have to open bank accounts and safe deposit boxes all over town. Hell yeah. But then also check the mattress.

Check the mattress. Check the frozen chicken cavity inside your freezer. Check that entire freezer, anything anywhere. Anything weird. Check the cardboard butter container. Remember when I threw Jim's cash away? Yes. Why did he have cash in the butter container?

No, that's on him. That's on him. It's so, oh. I did it though. No, he should have fucking told his houseguest. But that's the thing. There is no houseguest. It's just him.

It's just you. But it's you. Me trying to find something to eat in that fucking house that isn't progressive soup. No offense. Oh my god. All right. Okay. Let's do what are you even doing right now?

Where you guys tell us what are you even doing right now when you listen to my favorite murder murder podcast everyone's got a story about what they're doing while they listen to this bullshit turns out You want me to go? Yeah, what am I even doing right now? The Kiwi edition? Oh, yeah, this says y'all longtime listener first-time caller right now. I'm listening to you while writing my job resume I'm 38 years old and I just got my ass out of a capital T for toxic work environment. I'm a single mama and this decision was hard to do because who leaves a paying job, all caps, in this economy. But you, Wahini Toa, that's Maori for warrior woman,

have helped give me the strength to know that I can start again and keep starting again till I find my joy. Much Aroha, Sarah in New Zealand. Hell yeah. Oh. You know what's important also to a job in this economy is showing your kids that you know how to be happy and chase happiness. Great point. Right? Yes.

Also, I loved New Zealand when we went there so much. Like, what a place. I understand that things are stressful and this is maybe a hard time, but go outside, eat some of your delicious fruits and vegetables. Go hiking. We're jealous. We're so jealous. Okay, mine's from a fan call actually, and it's from Jody S. I am listening while I work

my way through handwriting 1,000 postcards to voters in swing states through the Progressive Turnout Project. Hell yes. Since I live in a tiny state with only two electoral votes, going door to door locally wouldn't be useful. This is what I did in 2020, and it's even more important this year. Everyone please remember to register to vote. And then I think that emoji is a little voting box, and it's blue, shockingly. Yes, Progressive Turnout Project. Go see what

we can do to help them, you guys. Yeah, that's great. I love that idea of like just sitting at a table in your house, filling out postcards actually does something. That makes sense because, yeah, door to door in a tiny place, it's like, what's that gonna do? Right. Oh, I'm sorry, but there's like a seven-year-old girl in me that can't let herself at this moment think about how exciting it would be to have not just a female president, but a black female president. Incredible.

I mean, next level. Way overdue. Yeah, next fucking level. I just, so overdue. And then also, it will mean that we're now in the future. Like we'll skip ahead to progress area where at least we'll all be going, this is the direction we want to be going. Right.

And look what you can do. I mean, Cherry on Top is having basically home gym as the VP. Tell me he doesn't remind you of your dad. He's so my dad, but if my dad was like, went through like a mellow 60s machine, my dad's the 50s version of Tim Walls. But have you seen the video of Tim Walls talking about that car part that burnt out and he's like, I don't like this Ford Explorer. It's the funniest thing where he basically really quick teaches you how to fix a burnt

out fuse in your car. My favorite is him trolling his vegetarian daughter at the state fair. Fucking epic. Turkey then. That's still me. And she's like the most patient person in the world. Register to vote everyone and do what you can to help. And thank you guys for listening. We appreciate you. Yes. Thank you for being here with us after all of this time. Yep. You too, Wiener Schnitzel.

Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Ah. ["Sweet Home Alone"] This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace. Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Ali Elkin. Email your hometowns to MyFavoriteMurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at MyFavoriteMurder and Twitter at MyFaveMurder. Goodbye!