My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 443 - All The Brave Podcasters

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

On today’s episode, Georgia and Karen cover the death of LA underworld boss Charles Crawford and the 1916 New Jersey shark attacks.  For our sources and show notes, visit www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. Go to select markets for the after details. Meet Summer. I just want to take you to the pool or the beach or the pool. And Fall. I just want to wrap you in cozy sweaters and serve you your Starbucks seasonal faves. They're an unlikely pairing. What if we could have the best of both worlds? That pair so well. A Summer Fling.

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That's Karen Kilgara. This microphone was down too low. I think you have a spot of eyeliner on top of your lip. But I think it looks good. It looks like a little freckle. Get rid of it. Get rid of it. We have make- yeah you got it.

We have makeup on today, you got it. We have makeup on today for exciting reason. For video reasons. We're making a video. Go right down the barrel with it. Wait, are we videoing this? Aren't we? Are we?

Oh. That's the whole idea. I thought, because we just did a video. I thought that was it. And now I can sit fucking comfortably. No, no. Do not relax. God damn it.

Do not relax. It's happening right now. This posture and these, I didn't, my hair. We're about to join all of the other podcasters doing video podcasts on TikTok and whatnot. I didn't cut my bangs before this because that's like, don't do that. But I did do a dumb thing, which is use bronzer for the first time.

Oh no. Wow. So I was like, this is how I see it done on Instagram. Were you doing the thing where you're like, on your jawline, down your nose? Yep. Okay, the first time I tried to do that, it truly looked like I was just wiping ash on my face.

I didn't match the color correctly. Do I look different? Do I look? Yeah, snatched to hell. Snatched. Snatched all to hell. Snatched. Snatched all to hell. That's what I was trying to do, is just thin up my upper lip. You got to get that thin lip. That's what's in today these days.

How does it happen where you're just like, I'm just trying to kind of look nice. And then it's like, sorry, your mascara fell off onto your lip. Because it's not fair. Because youth is beauty. And when you don't have that anymore, you just chase it and chase it and chase it. That light just flickered with a ghost? It flickered like it is brave. All the brave podcasters before us. Yep. We're standing on the shoulders of brave giants.

Older ladies fucking making younger generational fucking content. Choices. fucking making younger generational fucking content. We're here. We're here to make content for people who do not care. I don't want people to go like, they're amazing, I want them to go, they're brave. Yes. That's so brave of them. It's so brave that you went on to video with that face. What a brave choice for that face.

You're really changing lives and minds. Oh, welcome to our podcast. Here's the wave of self-consciousness that we have to power through. Okay, fine. Should we just do the podcast like normal? Let's pretend it's not happening. This isn't happening. First time caught on video, Georgia using Kleenex, because that's something she does often. Can I just tell you, this is not a plug, but the fact that we are now doing ads for Kleenex makes like it's kind of a milestone moment in my life and on this podcast, I feel like.

Absolutely. Because we've literally manifested it. Yes. Literally. I've blown my nose on my dress at a live show before because I didn't have Kleenex. And I was like Kleenex needs to sponsor us and fucking look at us now. And look at only seven years later after one major pandemic globally. That's all it took.

You can manifest, let's send this right down the barrel, you can manifest anything you want in this life. You just have to repeat it. You have to use as much Kleenex as you possibly can. Don't go to the doctor for your allergies. Keep your allergies. On Sunday you can monetize them. Allergies are good. Allergies are monetizable. It's all content. It's all content.

It's all content. It's all content. It's all blessed. It's all hashtag. What was the? Okay. Jess, who works in the production department at this company, I said one day that I would love a cover. For the Kleenex brand. For the Kleenex brand that's underneath there and fully sponsors this entire Situation and you manifested it, but I said there's some sort of a toucan pattern Can we just for the busyness element get something on there exactly right exactly? Yeah, just something plain okay anything and then Jess was like check this shit out and had Vanessa our graphic designer He's super talented go and this is what Vanessa did it did of like here's your choices, I can do this, I can do that.

Tell them for people who don't watch YouTube or Instagram what you're talking about. Oh sorry, I keep on touching and pointing this but this is actually a podcast. Truly, at its heart. At its soul and what we are, our roots. I'm sorry guys, I'm pointing at a plastic Kleenex box cover that's white plastic, as I said. Fully recyclable. It's made from old cans. And our graphic designer, Vanessa, cut out a bunch of exactly right circles in beautiful kind of mid-century color patterns and put them on the Kleenex box for us. That's what it takes to get a job at this fucking network.

You have to care. You have to care so much. We are also forcing all of our employees, especially the people who work on this podcast, to be in sketches now, to be in funny videos because everybody has to participate. It sounds actionable. I bet it is. I don't think you're allowed to. I bet it is. I don't think you're allowed to. I bet it is.

I have a book. Can I get a book real quick that I'm so excited about? Can I just ask a question? What? How are you fucking reading all these books? No, no, no. I'm listening to them. Oh.

Audiobook. Got it. I'm reading books. It takes me three weeks to read a book. Right. Because I only do like a bed. Audiobooks, I'll finish them in a weekend by creating my favorite thing to do around the house, which I call this and that. So it's like, what are you gonna do? And I'm like, I'm gonna do this and that, which means I'm gonna listen to

an audiobook and clean something that doesn't need to be fucking organized. Like that closet I've been meaning, that drawer I've been meaning to do, this is a great time to do that. This and that. This and that. I'm gonna do this and that. The dishes, you know, that kind of thing. Tightening your shit that. This and that. I'm going to do this and that. The dishes, you know, that kind of thing. Tightening your shit up. Yes, exactly. I love it. So this one is a fucking banger.

I found this one from the Instagram called Crime by the Book. Get it? By Abby. And she told me to read the book called The Nothing Man by Katherine Ryan Howard. Takes place in Cork, Ireland. It's essentially like if Michelle McNamara's book, All Be Gone in the Dark, was being read to you and then the killer, the Golden State killer, the next chapter was him reading it and reacting to it.

Oh, wow. And he's like, she got this wrong and she got that wrong. And the writer is a survivor of one of his attacks. And you're like, she's going to catch him by the end. So he's like, then I opened it and I kept reading and then it goes into the audiobook of her like true crime book. Does that make sense? Is it a true story?

No, no, no, no. The whole thing's fiction. The whole thing is fiction of a woman who survived as a child, a serial killer. Yes. While the serial killer reads the book himself and reacts to it and you start to find out more and more about him and his attacks and what a narcissistic loser piece of shit just as we always fucking said they are. Yeah. It's like I cannot put it down. Wow. Say the author's name one more time. It's Katherine Ryan Howard,

the nothing man. Amazing. I'm listening to that too. It's like creepy and so good and exactly what you think it's supposed to be like. Lot of Golden State Killer reference, like kind of similarities. Yeah. So good. That sounds really good. I'm like mad that I'm almost done with it.

I visited that at around this weekend cause I realized there's parts of my house that I just was like, oh, I can't finish that or deal with it. So like the entryway for a long time, which I... I know what you're going to say. It's the article table that I got because we get, they give us stuff for free sometimes just so we can actually talk, you know, from our experience.

Yeah, on the ads. So I got like an entryway table. That was there with a nice lamp. So I had a place to basically put my keys and not lose stuff. So it was just like, I need a home base for my things I can't lose. But then I was like, I should hang art over this. So I went to, have you gone to the Echo Park Art Fair or like that weekend? And it's just like, it's very much like the Melrose one. Oh, on the roof of the parking structure?

Yes. That is the new Los Feliz Flea Market. The Los Feliz Flea Market, okay. But they moved there, yeah. But it's not a Los Feliz.a Market. The Los Feliz Flea Market, okay. But they moved there, yeah. But it's not a Los Feliz. It's not. It's an Echo Park. It is.

The Los Feliz Flea Market, we went there, Bridger and I, from I Said No Gifts. Plugs everywhere on the set. Plugs everywhere, who cares? But we went there and one of the first booths we passed, there was this insanely gorgeous piece of embroidery art that was like a wildflower field. And I saw it and I was like, oh my God, I need that. And then I asked the guy, and it was kind of expensive, like for a flea market type

of place. And then we went to walk away and Bridger's like, you're not going to get it. And I'm like, I'm going to do the rest of this and see how I feel. I'm going to re-approach it. Yes, you got to. And then if somebody else gets it, that's... Meant to be. That's fate.

Yeah. And they didn't, and I got it. And it is hanging now perfectly over my table. And I keep intentionally walking by it just so I can see it. That's sweet. Yeah. Okay, since this is now a visual podcast, you need to send a photo so we can put it on the Instagram.

Write that down. Alejandra, text her. I have a picture. You do? Yes, because the second I put it together, I took a picture and sent it to Bridger to be like in your face. Yeah, why are you mad at him for it?

No, just, you know, it's my personality. But it was essentially like, look how good this turned out. It was better than we all expected. Let's see. No, that, oh my god. Right? The lamp is gorgeous. Thank you. The table is flawless.

Article. The fucking picture frame, the picture is epic. Isn't it good? It's so good. Somebody's incredibly talented, like grandma or aunt, sat there for hours and did that thing. I'm looking at your books. Oh, yeah.

I actually... It's all our book. How come it's just eight copies of Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered, Karen? Korea, Serbia. I actually had different books under there, and then I went and redid them for color. It's perfect. So that the color would reflect the color. It's perfect. Oh, wait a second.

This is the one. Sorry, that's before I hung it. Oh, I was going to say you didn't need to hang it. But here's what I did. I hung it four inches above that table, which is the spot. Yeah, that's what they're all doing. It's fucking Pinterest perfect. I feel proud of myself.

So, you know, a victory. Congratulations. Thanks so So, you know, a victory. Congratulations. Thanks so much, you two. You are a fucking house designer now. Thank you. Anything else? Should we get into exactly right? I think that's all I had. Books and art.

Books and art, embroidery-based art. That's all you can expect here. Yeah, that's kind of what we got. And video. Oh, and of course, video content for anybody who's interested. Karen's wearing a black shirt. I'm wearing a busy fucking fun little thing. Shift. You know us. That's us. This is what we've been doing for 10 years. It's fun to not have to do your hair because your stupid headphones are going to cover it anyway. I didn't think about that.

That is nice. If only my headphones covered my upper fucking lip. You know there's an injection for that, right? We have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights. Now, Bananas, Kurt and Scotty discuss strange news with their guest Dana Marlowe, founder of the nonprofit I Support the Girls. Also you guys in Denver, Colorado on Saturday, September 7th. Don't miss Bananas Fest where the Banana Boys will host a day of festivities and live shows. Visit

BananasPodcast.com for more information. Like this is a must-go-to thing. Yes. Kurt Braunler and Scotty actually, because they've been working together since they lived in New York City, so like years and years. But they put on a show for festivals, for all kinds of things. They know how to get people together and have some fun. And weird fun, too. Yeah, that's right. Also, we're excited to announce our first throwback merch item from episode eight of our Rewind episodes that we've, George and I have been doing.

Through September 3rd, you can pre-order your limited edition Elvis wanna cookie t-shirt or tote bag. So don't forget to do that because they will be gone very soon. And those are by old school murderino artist Michael Ramstad who was like early on sending in the cool fucking MFM art like thank you. Huge part of the early days. Thank you Michael. Yes and so also the exactly right store is having an end of summer sale that runs today

August 29th through September 2nd. Use the code SUMMER24 to get 15% off all regular priced items. And don't forget to check out the Last Chance section for even more discounts. Visit ExactlyRightstore.com to shop. Also a reminder for listeners who do like to shop, I keep now turning to the camera. You do! Don't do that! We're supposed to be chill.

I'm so sorry. You look, you kind do that! We're supposed to be chill. I'm so sorry. You look, you kind of seem like you're in an infomercial. Yeah, that's kind of what my personality is like anyway. But my thing is just kind of like, we can't ignore these people. No, ignore them. That's part of the job. They don't want to ignore those people. They're not even there. They're not there.

So a reminder for those who like to shop, promo codes for all of our advertisers are now available online so that you will never miss them. And it's online on our website specifically. So you go to myfavoritemurder.com slash promos and you can get the promo codes for all the things we talk about. I bet you there's an article one on there. I've gone twice to look for it,

to see if we have promo codes for things I've been buying. I'm not fucking kidding. Cause like I might as well use my promo code, right? Hell yes. We all should. Georgia, did you know there's still 32 days left of summer? I do, because I'm really working on getting all those hot dogs in. Just working on it?

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sleep with Miracle Made. Go to trymiracle.com slash murder and use code murder to claim your free three-piece towel set and save over 40% off. Again, that's trymiracle.com slash murder to treat yourself. Thank you Miracle Made for sponsoring this episode. Goodbye. Karen, I finally figured out the key to a good night's sleep. Please don't say warm milk. Ew, no. I'm talking about SimpliSafe. I sleep so much better knowing that my house is protected. SimpliSafe knows that in a crisis, every moment counts.

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Goodbye. Goodbye. I'm first, which is good because I've already drank half of this can of wine. Yeah. We've got to get you out of here pretty soon. I'll go and then I'll leave and then you can do your story. Okay. And I'll play to camera.

Yeah, that's right. Talk to them. Okay. Do you know, Karen, the shop outdoor shopping mall on a sunset boulevard that's called the Crossroads of the World? I know you know it. Oh yes I do, of course I do. Tell everyone about it. Calling it a shopping mall is a little, they might be literal with that, but it isn't like people are going there to shop. No, it's like office buildings now, but I think, yeah go on. But maybe it was when it

started? Yeah, I'll tell you all about it, but yeah. Okay, great. It's like this weird now, but I think, yeah, go on. But maybe it was when it started? Yeah, I'll tell you all about it, but yeah. Oh, okay, great. It's just like this weird kind of... It looks maybe Dutch. Like there's, it's the whole main part of the main building is a windmill design, if I'm remembering it. It just really does stand out, right? It's got a very specific style, and it used to be very close to the cat and fiddle.

So like we'd get drunk at the cat and fiddleiddle and be like, what's that thing over there? And that was like, you know, a part of our, a part of my young Hollywood lifestyle. It's in the like kind of sketch neighborhood on Sunset Boulevard. There's a 7-Eleven across the street. Like we've all seen it, but none of us have ever been in it.

Yeah, you can tell it used to be something, but there's a lot of stuff like that in LA where you're like, I wish I will one day learn about this. Well guess fucking what. Today's the day. Today is the day. The Crossroads of the World opened in October of 1936 and was designed to have different buildings and different architectural styles like you would find in international cities.

For example, probably Dutchland. The idea is that when you're there, you're taking a trip around the world. The entrance is a building that looks like an art deco ocean liner. So it is, when you drive by it you are like what is happening. The central tower has a globe on top and it's so iconic that a replica of it is the first thing visitors see when they enter the Hollywood Studios Park at Disney World in Florida. Oh wow. Did you know that?

I did not. But also it's interesting that I interpreted that as a windmill. Right. But there might be a Dutch theme somewhere. Maybe just like blue and white? Sure. I don't know. The site has gone through cycles of growth and decline, and it's now mostly offices. It's currently the topic of a heated debate over redevelopment, but the crossroads of the world was originally built by a grieving widow on the very site where her husband was murdered. Oh my God. This is the story of the death of a notorious LA underworld figure named Charles Crawford and the history of the Crossroads of the World Shopping Center.

Amazing. Shopping Center is a misnomer for sure. I know, I know. The main sources for this story are a PBS article by Hadley Mears and an LA Times article by Cecilia Rasmussen and the rest can be found in the show notes. So let me tell you about this dude. Charles Crawford is born in 1879. He rises to prominence in Seattle in the early 1900s.

Like so fun, let's go. He operates bars, dance halls, and bordellos. Like, what more does one want? This is a period called the Klondike Gold Rush. Gold had been discovered in the Klondike River in Canada's Yukon territory, which borders Alaska, as you and I both have known. We talk about it all the time.

All the time. It's our Roman Empire. It really is. One of the routes that you have to use to get there often requires a stop in Seattle, where Charles and his partners are ready to relieve the men of their money. Yeah. You know?

Like, what do you need? We have it. We have it all here for you. Exactly. In 1910, Seattle elects a reformer mayor who promises to crack down on crime and all the criminals like, God damn it. Yeah. yeah so yeah so Charles leaves for Los Angeles and at the time Los Angeles is considered pretty much lawless Wow yeah 1910s in Los Angeles just do what you want just take me there do you want and then go to the beach

right the dates are fuzzy but at some point Charles marries a woman named Ella, who's most often described, guess, I mean. Plain? No. Slight, pretty, and blonde. Oh, oh. Because what more do you need to describe a woman? I mean, sure.

But also it's like, oh, and he's a gangster. So there's a little bit of a flex maybe. Even back then, the beauty standard. Charles shows up in Los Angeles right before prohibition, which is fine for him because he opens up a saloon called the Maple Bar at the intersection of Fifth and Maple downtown. And I looked it up and it's like in the toy district

kind of Skid Row area and it's right down the street from the last bookstore. Oh yeah, yeah. Which is an amazing place everyone should go. It gives me Perry Mason vibes, like the show we were watching with What's-His-Face? I won't be able to remember. Andrew? Yes, you will.

I love him so much. Have you ever seen him? Oh, we've talked about it. Yes. His real accent versus him talking like Perry Mason? His real accent and his beard, like, do things for me. Great. Did they do things? To, like, do things. Great. Did they do things? To me.

Yeah. Reese. Rees. Matthew Rees. Matthew Rees. We were nowhere close to it. I was nowhere near it. No, but that show that we saw that was so good before, where they were like downtown in the

20s. Perry Mason. Perry Mason. Yeah. So the Maple Bar is a really nice place. There's a bordello upstairs. And right away, Charles and his friends become influential in the LA underworld. Charles and his cronies are connected with law enforcement.

They have influence over local politicians and become known as the City Hall Gang. Charles is a charismatic host at the bar and his charm and ability to get pesky problems dealt with inspires a little catchphrase people say about him, which is, quote, see Charlie about it. I like the idea of having somebody around that takes away pesky problems. Just go see Charles. Yeah. He's got this.

I need you to talk to Charles. Absolutely. He's known for his flamboyant clothing and his penchant for jewelry, which is like who among us? Come on. Do we have a photo of him actually? I should have. Flying in? No, no, a hot one.

A hot one. This guy does something to you? No, no, Perry Mason does something for me. I'm not into zaddies. I loved it that back then, this picture was clearly taken in like the 30s. And it's just like, you don't need to bring all your teeth. Don't worry about it. Leave your teeth at home.

We just started, oh that's a gold tooth. Oh damn. It's not empty, it's gold. That's flex. Hell yeah. I mean, just maybe he was cute when he was younger. Let's just pretend. You can tell.

You can see the bones. Sure. Good bones. Good smile. OK, so in 1921, a man named George Cryer is elected mayor of Los Angeles. He goes by the nickname Pinky. And this is great for Charles Crawford because George is completely in bed with the City Hall gang. He is basically a puppet politician.

Great. You know what I mean? Great for them. Yeah. Charles becomes more powerful and is known by two nicknames, Good Time Charlie and the Gray Wolf of Spring Street. Holy shit. Those are two very different nicknames.

Yeah, like who do you want to meet, you know, when you've done something wrong? He was a Gemini. Thank you. He's not directly tied to particular acts of violence. Basically, he's too high up and has enforcers to do things like that for him. And it said that Charles is the inspiration for some of the corrupt villains in Raymond Chandler's hard boiled detective novels. Wow.

So like same time, same place, same kind of person. Is Perry Mason in Raymond Chandler series? Wow. Based on? That's a great question. I wonder. We'll just float that into the universe. I'm going to go no. Okay, well I'm going to say yes.

That's what you can expect from My Favorite Murder. Earl Stanley Gardner did Perry Mason. I thought I'd throw that out there. I only know two authors and one of them you talked about at the beginning of this show. So at this point, Charles's influence over all corners of Vice in LA really consolidates into a cohesive crime syndicate, your favorite kinds of syndicate. I mean, there's a lot of different kinds. Crime is the best one.

It's fun. The City Hall Gang has their hands in illegal slot machines, illegal bookmaking, and illegal betting. At the end of the roaring 20s, Charles' social standing begins to decline, and it's for a few reasons. Prohibitions ended and organized crimes influence on the liquor industry becomes like a lot more tenuous. And at the same time, just like what happened in Seattle, Los Angeles elects a reformer

mayor who promises to root out all the fun, hilarious, rampant corruption. As part of this effort, Charles is indicted on charges related to multiple scandals and one of the most well publicized is the Julian Pete scandal, which I'd never heard of. Throughout the 20s... But it was so well publicized. Yeah. Throughout the 1920s, a man named Courtney Chauncey Julian... That's three first names. Beat that.

Insane. Beat that. Start selling shares in an oil field that he has yet to build. The company is called Julian Petroleum and it's usually shortened to Julian Pete. While there really is oil in Southern California, the people who benefit from it are those who are already wealthy and own large tracts of land. Julian promises small-time investors that they too can get a piece of the action, and he runs ads in the LA Times that say, quote, I'm trying to offer you the squareest and surest opportunity for big returns that is humanly possible to make, end quote.

Guys, when they come out the door telling you it's an honest deal, there's a reason. Right. Because it isn't. It's basically a Ponzi scheme. Julian buys two oil wells, which turn over a modest profit, but not nearly enough to cover the returns that he's been promising. He pays, of course, the earlier investors with money coming. It's a Ponzi scheme. We fucking, I've covered Ponzi schemes, guys. We should know this by now. We know.

Julian comes under investigation, but he had encouraged all of his investors to vote for the sitting district attorney Which is so smart and had also probably bribed him. So the DA is like, I don't know what you're talking about Yeah, we're seeing that a lot these days. Hey Still word starts getting around that Julian is a con man and public opinion starts to turn against him on one occasion He gets into a bar fight with Charlie Chaplin. What? Yeah.

Remember when I thought Charlie Chaplin used to own my house? Yeah, I do. But I love it. So embarrassing. It's better that he didn't. It's a better story than if Charlie Chaplin had. That it's someone named Charles Chaplin.

At least it has a funny joke at the end of it. And not just like a straight up brag. Right. Except for that I bragged to so many people. And then, yeah, that was so embarrassing. But anyway, sorry. I love the idea that Charlie Chaplin was like, yeah. Just the cuffs.

John L. Sullivan style. Yeah. No one goes to jail for this whole Julian Pete scandal, but it does kick up a lot of publicity around corruption in LA. Wait, do we know why he got in that fist fight with Charlie Chaplin? We don't. Okay. Just a side note in her story.

So all of this, you know, shit with the city government also implicates Charles, our friend Charles Crawford, who is widely understood to be one of the back channels facilitating all the bribery and favors and fucking all of this shit. Like he's the dude. With several indictments pending in the courts, Charles flees to Europe in 1930, but returns pretty quickly, probably because he's like, this place is sketchy. All of Europe?

Nazis, mostly. Oh, gotcha. You know? And somehow manages to have all of his charges dropped, probably because he was completely innocent, right? Yeah, that's, it's either that or he went and found some money over in creepy, at the time Europe. Still, he says he will not be returning to organized crime, Scouts Honor. He gets baptized and joins a Presbyterian church.

And on one of his first Sundays there, he drops a diamond ring into the collection plate. So on purpose, not like- It slipped off his beautiful lady-like fingers. But maybe he really meant it? Is he trying to, is that publicity or is that like he's really doing it? You know, who the fuck knows? Okay.

It could be real. Men are so mysterious. So here we go. The diamond ring that he dropped in is appraised at the time to be worth $3,500, and that's in the 1930s. In today's dollars, that would be... $3,500.

I think we're up into like $150,000. $65,000. Yeah. He makes a separate donation of $25,000 for a new building for the church, which is a lot of money fucking now. Yes. And today's dollars, that $25,000 for a new building for the church would be more than... Half a million?

470,000. Oh, I was close on that one. You were very close on that one. On that first guess, did you see how long it took me to do that math? Because you knew it and you didn't, you have to go with what comes into your head first. Yeah, you're right. It's a guessing game. It's not a math game. It's not a math game. I'm my favorite murder ever. It'll never be and it never

was. It's not a bronzer game. It's not a math game. It is a video game at this point though. It's a video game. It's a video game. And he has the building named after his mother. Nice. He's repenting. Yeah maybe. Charles owns an entire block on Sunset Boulevard. Oh, God, can you imagine? And on it, he opens a real estate and insurance business,

which operates out of a small bungalow. Oh, my God. Like, can you imagine what it looked like back then? Just like... And also the hats. Just the hats. Imagine the hats. But he also starts another venture, a magazine called The Critic of Critics. It's meant to be a sort of political gossip column, and he hires a veteran newspaper man named Herbert Spencer to run it. It does kind of seem like maybe he's trying to go straight, you know? Yeah, it does.

On what money? Who knows, but it's straight. Still. For reasons that will never be totally clear, on May 20th, 1931, Charles and this newspaperman, Herbert, take a meeting with a corrupt district attorney. So maybe they're still there. This guy's named Dave Clark. He goes by the totally normal name, Handsome Dave. That afternoon, Dave arrives at the bungalow on sunset for the

meeting, and apparently Handsome Dave and the political gossip columnist Herbert Spencer is there, had some kind of disagreement. And at the time, Dave is running to be a city judge. Maybe he was trying to get paid off, maybe they didn't want to, maybe something along those lines. It seems that Dave didn't want Herbert bad mouthing him also in The Critics, which is their new magazine. And on the way to the meeting, Handsome Dave buys a gun. And the way a prosecutor would later describe it,

there were three racketeers in the bungalow and only one came out. Oh, shit. So witnesses say they hear gunshots, then they see Handsome Dave leave the bungalow and get into a car driven by a blonde woman wearing lots of jewelry. Sign me up.

Herbert Spencer dies at the scene, but Charles is alive when he gets to the hospital. In the operating room, police try to ask Charles who shot him, but Charles only smiles and says, quote, I don't know, ask Spencer, end quote, referring to the guy who had been killed there. So like, he's no rat even at the end. He's no rat. A guy who just killed his buddy. So like he's no rat even at the end. He's no rat.

A guy who just killed his buddy, his like coworker buddy. I don't know. Ask him. I don't know, bye. Ask him, bye. Yeah. Charles dies shortly thereafter at the age of 52.

Wow. So when Hanson Dave is arrested, he claims that Charles also had a gun and that he shot Charles in self-defense. Investigators never recover a gun from the scene that would have been Charles's, though Charles had been wearing a shoulder holster that was empty. That's weird. Investigators say that Charles had been holding a cigar in his dormant hand when he was shot,

which seems to point to the fact that he had not also been holding a gun in his cigar hand. LARISA Is it his dominant hand, not his dormant hand? RISA GOLUBO? No, I meant dominant. His dominant dormant hand. It's asleep. Dormant is the other one. It's the non-dominant one. In the lead up to the trial, Handsome Dave and his wife Nancy

go into spin mode. They grant tons of interviews. Dave invites reporters to a poker game in his jail cell, you know, back then. I mean, it was a little wild. Handsome Dave has reporters to a poker game in his jail cell, you know, back then. I mean, it was a little wild. Handsome Dave has reporters come on in his... Bring them on down. Yeah.

While Nancy talks to them on her front, like she's just spinning it too. The election Dave was running in happens while he's being held in jail ahead of his trial and he loses, unfortunately. But he still gets 60,000 votes. Sure. Even though he killed two people. Well, he's handsome. Handsome, Dave?

Can't get past that. It matters. It does. Dave winds up being tried separately for each of the two murders. He's acquitted for Herbert Spencer's murder first, the journalist. After the acquittal, Charles's widow, Ella, the slight blonde and pretty Ella, gives a statement criticizing the prosecutor.

She says that there's no point in having another trial for her husband's murder because, quote, so, as far as I'm concerned, district attorney Fitz need not put on any more burlesque shows in the trial of my husband's slayer. In these times of depression, it would be far better if the taxpayers be saved the cost of another feudal gesture such as that just completed. In the trial, the memory of my husband was besmirched and a halo placed over the head of his slayer." So she's pissed.

She's slight blonde, pretty, and a badass. Yeah. And her husband's like, I'm a Presbyterian now and I'm taking care of business and doing normal shit. He gets fucking killed by this guy and this guy comes out scot-free. Yeah. So like don't even bother prosecuting him for my husband's murder because I know it's gonna happen and I don't want to hear it. Well it's like they all worked within a rigged system and really supported that rigged system and suddenly the rigged system gets them. That's right.

Yeah. That's a good point. But you can't just call up a trial, the civilian. True. So the trial proceeds. Ella testifies against Dave's self-defense argument. She says that she hugged her husband goodbye the morning he was killed. And then if he had been wearing a revolver, she would have felt it. Sure. Maybe. There's a hung jury. One juror wanted to find Dave guilty, handsome Dave guilty. That juror then finds a bomb on his front lawn.

Oh my God. So the new jury, the next jury comes back with a not guilty verdict. Like message fucking sent. Also as that woman pointed out to the press, it's the depression. Yeah. No one needs that shit in their life. If it's like the hardest of depression. Yeah. No one needs that shit in their life. If it's like the hardest of times. Yeah.

And I like that she's like the taxpayers money would be better spent somewhere else. Don't fucking bother. It's the depression. And that's what those people are just like, I'm not dying for this fake, you know. Right. Ugh. Yeah. Horrible. About 20 years later in 1953, handsome Dave Clark will be arrested for another murder

and he'll die in jail at the age of 55 shortly after his arrest. Meanwhile, Ella Crawford, the wife of Charles Crawford, she's in her 30s when this whole thing goes down. She's now widowed with two young daughters and in 1934, the IRS starts closing in on her. Charles died owing $42,000 in back taxes, which in today's dollars, Jesus, that's a lot of fucking money. How much is it?

Almost a million. $984,000. Just overwhelming. Just like bankruptcy. But he owned a bungalow where he was killed. He owned that land and that entire block of Sunset Boulevard that it was on. So Ella has an idea. Her vision is a block full of shops that will take you on a trip around the world. She hires an architect named Robert Darrah to design the shopping center.

That's her dream now. He's the same person who designed Ella's Coca-Cola building and he specializes in a style called Streamline Moderna. You mean just like this studio? Yes. It's basically an offshoot of Art Deco that draws inspiration from trains and ocean liners. There's that building on, like a little, on Hyperion. You know what I'm talking about? Yes, with the little portholes.

A little porthole. Yes. Oh, God. That must have been like the style. Yeah, yeah. A style back then. It's curved edges, windows that look like portholes. It looks like a little schooner.

Yeah. He designs the shopping center's iconic central building that looks like a ship. And the Crossroads of the World opens in 1936 to great fanfare and hosts an eclectic selection of shops that specialize in things like hand-dipped chocolates and imported fabrics. How many years of your life would you give up for five minutes in there? Seven.

Wow. Because truly, I mean. No, don't. Yeah, it's not. No one's coming for you. No one's coming for me. But also, that idea that especially back then where like things were quality. Yeah. So somebody is actually like choosing each shop to reflect things in the world. Like you couldn't get a lot of stuff like that back then. You just had like Macy's and whatever they had at Macy's or the May Company. But

like this is intentionally international and global. That's cool. In an area where there probably aren't a lot of, I mean Los Angeles at the time, I don't think it was that cosmopolitan. I think it was not at all. So you have the sudden cute little fabrics. Yeah, chocolates. Perfumes. Modern. Yeah. Artists and designers also rent space in the shopping center. I like the stories. So cool. Let's go take a Ouija board there and find out. Later on, it becomes more popular as an office space for people in the entertainment industry and Alfred Hitchcock has his production offices there. That's right. Which is down the street from where Charlie Chaplin had his fucking production offices. Around the corner which is where Kermit

the Frog now has his production offices. That's fucking right. The Jim Hansen fucking production offices. LA's not so bad. Ella dies in 1956 and then later decades the shopping center becomes more vacant, changes hands between owners several times. Today part of the site is planned to be redeveloped into fucking high rises. Just what LA needs more of. Well that whole area along like Sunset and Hollywood Boulevard they're trying to turn it into like high rise area. Guys if you've ever been to the original Amoeba that was there, that's the area that it's in.

Oh, yeah. Right? And Cotton Fiddle, as you said. Right, right. The fucking Hollywood YMCA. Love that place. It's right there, too. No, I'm serious. I love that place. No, no, no. I do, too. But we used to go there. I think I was a member or I went with my friend. But one time I was going there and waiting for her to be done. And I was just sitting against a wall and this old guy was like

hey can I get a ride home and I was like what no and it was the weirdest thing when I got home my leggings that I was wearing were split from like the top from just stem to stern just like open crotch like leggings at the YMCA. I was like, what is happening? He thought I was trying to attract and that's the way I was going to do it. And that man was Jake Gyllenhaal. If I'm not mistaken, I actually think I worked out there when I worked out there in like the early 2000s, 2010s or so.

James LaGrosse used to play basketball there. Who? One of the best actors of all time. Oh, sorry. You've seen him a bunch. You know who he is. I do. You have to see his face.

And he's amazing. Yes. Anyways, thankfully the project for the high rises has been plagued with lawsuits and allegations of corruption. So it's like the fucking same as it ever was. It just brought it all back. It did. Why aren't exactly right offices there?

Let's get the second branch. We're as corrupt as fuck. Yeah, they're so corrupt. That's all we do is pay off handsome DAs. I didn't mean it like that, but let's get our second set of offices at that spot. Sounds great. That'll be our future investment. And that is the story of LA underworld boss Charles Crawford and the LA landmark that was built as a result of his murder

the crossroads of the world on Sunset Boulevard. Incredible. And I truly, what a joy to listen to that. Thank you. Because there is, LA is so like, not known for anything architectural or anything like that, but there are a million stories here. And across the street, and I'm not sure, I think it's also on Sunset, there is that motel that has the crazy, creepy haunted house looking thing. That has the old soda vending machine. I have a photo in front of that in a vintage dress. Is it still there?

I think it's there, but I think they don't like how many people try to come in and go whatever. Or it's just for filming now. Maybe it is. I don't know. I think I talked about it once long ago on Facebook and I had a bunch of people who were like LA people telling me about it. So crazy. Yeah.

This would be a good series if you keep on doing these stories like these. Okay. It's like, yeah, you never thought that 7-Eleven had anything to do with it, but that's actually where. I like that. It's like the Zankuu Chicken place and the most fearless murder mansion. Right? Yeah.

But I could do it all over the world. Around the world. Well, then that's actually just the podcast. But no offense. No offense. All taken. Uh... We are proud to say that this podcast is brought to you by Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues.

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I was like, I did this already. But then I remembered, as is common with me, I like to read new stories I did incorrectly. So I didn't really tell the full story last time. And so that's why I'm going to tell you this story today. Today's story is about sharks. The apex predators we all fear, especially when we're swimming in the ocean. Sometimes just when we're sitting around the living room. Yeah, totally.

Especially when we're actually where they live. This past February, ABC ran an article with the headline, quote, 10 people killed in unprovoked shark attacks last year report fines. Unprovoked being the operative word there. Then in July, CNN publishes an article titled, quote, at least four people were bitten in shark attacks in Texas and Florida since the 4th of July. Texas has sharks? I mean, their coastline does. They don't come inland very much. You also may have seen last year's headlines about the great white shark that was, quote, stalking the Hamptons. So this has been common lately. But to be very clear, encounters between sharks and humans are very rare. Globally,

there were 69 unprovoked shark attacks. Don't laugh at that. Don't. We're grown women. The shark swims by and you're like, hey, slut. And then it's like, well, then you asked for it. What were you wearing, a bikini? Yeah. Were you just out there in the water opening your legs over and over? So in 2023, 69 unprovoked shark attacks, two of them being fatal.

So of those, only two were fatal. One was in Hawaii, the other was in California, and my guess is the other one was Stinson Beach, because that's where up north they all happen. But that's just a guess. Hearing about those occasional attacks is what feeds into our persistent and very reasonable fear of sharks. But it doesn't warrant it based on data and the stats. Sure. That's all we care about here on My Favorite Murder. Yeah, we're data more stats. We're not like you. We don't base our fears on rows of teeth.

That's immature. We're data sluts, kind of. So, a hundred years ago, Americans felt very differently. Back then, sharks were thought of as big, mysterious fish that lived deep in the ocean. At that time, reports of shark attacks are, of course, much more few and far between, especially on the East Coast. American scientists at the turn of the 20th century openly and repeatedly reinforced the idea that sharks are not a threat to human beings ever, at all.

Just not at all. Give them a kiss, actually. Yeah, if you rub their nose, they'll follow you around. So even though there are reports of shark attacks abroad, they're sometimes dismissed by U.S. based experts as being exaggerated or sensationalized or written off as just sea tales until 1916. In 1916, all of that changed because that was the year that transformed sharks from big mysterious fish into cold-blooded apex predators in the minds of Americans.

This is the story of the 1916 New Jersey shark attacks. I remember this live show. Yes. In New York. Jersey? No. Did we ever do a live show in Dirty Jersey? Yes. In New York. Jersey? No. Did we ever do a live show in Dirty Jersey? No. Why not?

Because you just called it that. We can never go back. I learned Dirty Jersey from my old friend, Haley Schaefer, who was from Jersey, and that's what she called it. Okay, then you're allowed to call it that. I think locals only. Okay, so, yes, I'm pretty sure that's what it was, but I basically only told one snippet of the story. Yeah, okay, great. So today's sources are the book 12 Days of Terror by Dr. Richard Furnacola, the book

Close to Shore, The Terrifying Shark Attacks of 1916 by Michael Capuzzo, and a History Channel documentary called Shark Attacks of 1916. The rest of those sources are in our show notes. I love that there's just a year that so much fucking shit happened that sharks just like got a rep and like never shook it. It's like 2024 with orcas. We're like, what's going on that you guys are like, you know what? They're done.

Fuck it all. They're fucking done. We're coming for you. All right. So this story starts on July 1st, 1916 in Beachhaven, New Jersey. Beachhaven is a popular vacation spot where wealthy North Easterners like to summer, including a well-to-do family from Philadelphia named the Van Zants. So on this night, the Van Zants have a 630 dinner reservation, but they just got to town.

So they decide to make a quick trip down reservation, but they just got to town. So they decide to make a quick trip down to the beach before going to the restaurant. Basically like, oh, we're here. Dr. Eugene Van Zant, his wife Louisa, and their three daughters stay on the beach, but their 25-year-old son Charles decides he's going to take his first dip in the ocean, the first dip of the summer right now. Don't do it. So Charles makes a beeline for the water and adorably, someone's dog runs along with him

and swims along with him, goes out with him until Charles is about chest deep in the ocean. We don't know if it was the Van Zant's dog or if it was just somebody else's dog. But we know there was a dog. Either way, the rest of Charles' family and a small group of other vacationers cheer them on as they go swimming in the ocean. Simple times. So everybody's kind of watching him swim.

And then suddenly the dog's demeanor changes. He seems skittish and he abruptly turns and paddles back toward shore. If the dog goes, you go, too. Yeah, leave immediately. Charles calls after the dog to come back. The dog isn't having it, so now Charles is all alone, or so he thinks. What he doesn't know is that there's a triangular fin slicing through the water heading straight for him.

And what happens next plays out in seconds. Charles lets out a high-pitched scream as blood pours into the ocean around him, turning it all into a dark crimson. Confused onlookers watch as he kicks and flails. One of Charles' sisters later says that he appeared to be, quote, struggling with a monster under the surface. The lifeguard on duty is a man named Alexander Ott, and he responds quickly. He swims out to Charles.

He helps him make his way back to the beach. But as he does that, and as they are getting into shallower and shallower water, the shark attacks again. This time, the shark clamps onto Charles' thigh, and Alexander can actually feel the shark pulling Charles' body away from him like a tug of war. Oh, no. And according to witnesses, this shark actually hangs onto Charles' leg until the men are so close to shore that the shark is actually scraping its belly against the sandy beach

in the shallows. Fuck. And then it finally gives up and swims away. So at that point, people have started gathering together. I mean, they're all watching this horror show. I have chills. Right? They all help pull Charles from the water, including Charles' father Eugene, who thank God is a doctor.

So now Eugene has to treat his son's horrific wounds. Eugene's never seen anything like this before, even though he's an experienced doctor. Charles's leg is tattered. The flesh is just gone. There's blood spurting everywhere. And the bone on Charles's hip and leg is exposed. Horrible. You got that artery right there. The big one. the one you can't don't do anything to it. So the beachgoers helped to carefully move Charles to the manager's office of the nearest hotel and they try to control

the bleeding but before he can be transported to a hospital he loses consciousness. Charles Van Zandt is pronounced dead at 6.45 p.m. He's only 25 years old. Oh my god. And they all fucking, his family watched. They watched it. It's just, it's so terrible. So the Van Zandts are a prominent Philadelphia family, and Philadelphia newspapers run stories on the shark attack, but it doesn't draw much attention beyond his hometown. And when it is discussed, it's mostly treated like a freak accident. As one example, Dr.

Richard Ferrancola writes, quote, the New York Times buried the account of the Van Zandt attack on page 18, referring to the culprit simply as a fish on three occasions in the short piece and reluctantly mentioned that it was, quote, presumably a shark. Probably because of tourism, right? They don't want to like. That's right. Yeah.

Yep. Just like everyone's favorite movie, Jaws. Got to open the beaches. Got to open those beaches. It's 4th of July weekend. This was July 1st. Yeah. Oh, right.

Yeah. And just so you know, Peter Benchley, who wrote the book Jaws, said that this was not an inspiration. He did not get his idea from this. That's a thing that people have said for years and he has corrected for years. But just like the movie Jaws, this isn't the only attack. The terror is just beginning. So five days later, on July 6, 1916, in the Ritzy coastal community of Spring Lake, New

Jersey, a 28-year-old hotel employee, also named Charles, his name is Charles Bruder, he's about to take a swim in the ocean. It's hot out, he's spent all morning lugging guest suitcases around, he's looking forward to cooling off in the ocean, something he does all the time. Charles is a strong swimmer, he feels very comfortable in the ocean, something he does all the time. Charles is a strong swimmer. He feels very comfortable in the ocean. He's heard murmurings about that there was a shark attack in Beach Haven, but that's 50 miles from Spring Lake and he just isn't that concerned. Again, Dr. Farron-Cola writes, Charles, quote, scoffed at the talk of sharks after the Van Zandt death by citing his experience with timid large

sharks off the California coast only months before. Oh, you had some playful sharks is what you're saying? I'm sorry. We have great whites out here. We're the ones that actually do it like we mean it. So timid. Timid, yeah. But I wonder if that's because, because this guy swims in the ocean, like gets in and swims

out in a way that I absolutely never would. No fucking way. And I wonder, is it that he's in their territory? I don't know. It's blissful ignorance that he didn't know. Because he's like, oh, it's just a shark. So if he if there was a shark that he thought was timid, he would be much braver than a person who understood how many rows of teeth are in a shark's mouth.

Something stupid. Yeah. That's my personal theory. So on July 6th, Charles swims about a quarter mile from shore, which is what he likes to do, which is relatively far out into the ocean, past the lifelines that they set up for the guests at the nearby hotels. No! He's like, no, no, I can do it. I fought a shark in California. Take a bath, dude.

That was a seal, dummy. So on the beach that day, there's also a large crowd swimming, sunbathing. Some are just hanging out in nearby hotels and restaurants that have a view of the water. And a lot of these people are treating Charles's swim kind of like entertainment. They're watching the guy go out. The further he goes, the more in awe they are that he would do that. And suddenly there's a piercing scream. One witness will later describe it as a blood curdling scream coming from the ocean. As Dr. Farin-Cola writes, quote, a woman standing near the lifeguard stand suddenly pointed

in the direction of Charles Bruder and shouted to the lifeguards that she believed a canoe had capsized just outside the swim area. She emphasized that the canoe's hull was just at the surface of the water and painted deep red. Oh, shit. This, she asserted, could be the only explanation for the water's blue hue to change radically to crimson red." So this woman has just witnessed one of the most horrifying things in her life, and her

brain turned off and went, that was a canoe with a red bottom. That's all I can handle. I mean, because, God. So the lifeguards that day are named George White and Christopher Anderson. They immediately know something's wrong. They've been staring at the ocean all day. There was no beach goer that went into the water with a red canoe. They're like, uh-uh. And what they will soon learn is that this woman witnessed the gush of blood leaving Charles Bruder's body after he was bitten by the shark. Everyone on shore is confused.

Lifeguards George and Christopher aren't sure what's happening to Charles, but they rush a rescue boat out to him, and when they get close, they can see how pale he is. But when the lifeguards reach down to grab Charles' arm to hoist him into the boat, they're surprised at how easy it is to lift him in. No. No. Yes. And that's when they see that Charles is missing most of both of his legs as well as an enormous

amount of blood. Fuck. 28-year-old Charles Bruder dies before the lifeguards can get the boat back to shore. So while a recent attack involving Charles Van Zandt was reported as a weird fluke, if it was covered at all, Charles Bruder's death is talked about in U.S. newspapers extensively. One shark attack felt like an anomaly, but two back-to-back shark attacks off the Jersey shore, something that before that day had seemed inconceivable, is enough to tip the country into a full-blown panic.

AMT. Yeah. So, the New York Times, that the first time had the shark attack on page 18, is now one of the many national newspapers that runs it as front page news. And all along the East Coast, tourists start swimming in pools and fountains instead of the ocean if they even carry through with their beach vacations at all. The swimming in a fountain made me laugh so hard and it makes me really sad because that fountain that's over in Los Feliz is closed now. And when it was super hot, people used to take their kids there to swim in it. And it was one of my favorite things to look at.

Super Deco, Art Deco. So gorgeous. I think I had a postcard of it. Yeah, I had lights at night. It's just closed. Okay, we'll talk about that later. So, in the small, friendly town of Matawan, New Jersey, there is not much fear. Summer in this town is still in full swing because a lot of people haven't heard about what's going on. Matawan is about 10 miles inland, but it feels like a world away from those glamorous Jersey Shore retreats. It's that long ago that the Jersey Shore was glamorous back then.

Sure. We've seen Boardwalk Empire. That's Atlantic City, isn't it? Oh, that's right. Nope, that's Atlantic City. It's Atlantic City, but it is an ocean. Sure. On the East Coast. Same thing. Glamorous. It's the same. There's no oceanfront in Matawan, but there is a brackish, salty an ocean. Sure. On the East Coast. Same thing. Glamorous.

It's the same. There's no ocean front in Matawan, but there is a brackish salty tidal creek, the Matawan Creek, that's popular with local kids. You wouldn't think there's going to be a shark there. Correct. So, does any of this part sound familiar? Yes. I'm thinking of the one that you covered where the shark barfed up an arm or something.

That's the Australian one. Okay. Okay. I That's the Australian one. Okay, okay. I was thinking of that one. The fact that it's in a creek and how weird a shark in a creek would be. I remember this. You do? A little bit. Okay, because we're trying to figure out

it's not like an episode. I feel like you did it at the theater in Brooklyn that we did. Oh, King's Theater. Yeah, in Brooklyn. And we just never posted it. Think so? Probably. Well, if you were there that just never posted it. Think so? Probably.

Well, if you were there that night at the King's Theater and got super drunk with everybody else because they had some sort of crazy Karen and Georgia cocktail that every single person in there drank. Got like drunk to a point where you're like on hallucinogenic drugs. It was wild. You don't remember this anyway. It was the best, the wild night. And we may have, that may have been a night where we either couldn't use the recording

or something happened. I think we did two nights there and so we don't want to put two episodes from the same theater app. So we usually use one night from a recording or from a tour. Until one year later when we want to go on vacation, then we use that second night. Steven just put up the other night. Steven, where are you? Please call into the hotline right now.

I'm having a fucking meltdown, Stephen. I can't record tonight. Yes, those, yes, for sure. Put up a live episode. What live episodes do we have left? That's what we say. And then we watch them dwindle down to zero. I guess put that one up.

Okay, fine, it's not that good. It was hard in 20...no, 2018? 17. 19. Yeah. 20. The whole thing. 21.

Very difficult. So I think I did this and we just weren't able to capture it. I'm still here. Great. I probably have one of those cocktails myself. Okay. There are people out there right now that are like, I was there. I heard you do this.

I think he did this one. Okay. Someone can help us. right now that are like, I was there, I heard you do this. I know you did this one. Okay. Someone can help us. So now it's July 12th. It's 11 days have passed since Charles Van Zandt was attacked in Beach Haven, 70 miles away. And only six days have passed since Charles Bruder was killed, 30 miles away. So that afternoon, a retired sea captain named Thomas Cottrell is taking one of his walks around town that he always does. I bet someone will ask him about his stories because he has the best stories.

I mean, it's all I can picture is the character from The Simpsons. It's like, everything starts with an R. Totally. That sounds amazing. They truly had a retired sea captain in Mattawans. Beautiful. So lovely. So, Cottrell makes his way across a bridge that passes over the Matawan Creek, and as he does, he looks down at the water and he sees something that he immediately recognizes, because he's an old sea captain.

Crawling up on the fucking sea there in Captain. It's a dorsal fin connected to a 10-foot long creature that's swimming up this creek. Fuck. So, Cottrell knows what a shark looks like. He's an expert. He's like, it's not a fish. It's not a fish. You asshole.

Yeah, it's not a log. He's also well aware of the two recent attacks in New Jersey. He knows that kids in Matawan like to swim in this creek, so he goes running back to Main Street to warn everybody. Amazing. So he goes running back to Main Street to warn everybody. Luckily it is not far away. So he can keep his pipe in his mouth the whole time. So he does just that. He just starts running around warning everyone he bumps into there's a shark in the creek, there's a shark in the creek. And I think the first time I did this story, I probably leaned on this pretty heavy. I don't know if it's true, but I imagine that guy gets drunk as much as he possibly can,

as I would myself. So everybody that he tries to tell this to thinks that he's either drunk or crazy. Yeah. Okay. We got, yeah. So frustrating. But also, it's like saying there's a giraffe in in the tree, where it's like, yeah, yeah, we would all think you're crazy.

What are you talking about? Sir. He's in his pints, as they say. Did someone say that? Is that how they say it? In his cups. He's in his cups. So, the idea of a shark being in the creek seems impossible, except for this summer,

this summer says, no, it isn't. Everything is possible in this this summer. This summer says no it isn't. Everything is possible in this beautiful summer. So around 2 p.m. a group of boys are headed down to the creek to go swimming and they're going toward what's known as Wyckoff Dock swimming hole. These boys come to that swimming hole almost every day this summer including a little boy who's 11 years old named Lester Stilwell. Lester's small for his age. Lester has epilepsy. Other than that, he's killing it because he has a factory job at the same factory his dad works at where they nail peach baskets together. And so he basically clocked out of his factory job. He made 150 baskets that day.

Oh my God. And then his dad is like, you're done for the day. You've helped our family. And so he got to go swimming in the creek. So he met up with all the rest of the boys and he went down to Wycoff Dock swimming hole. So he gets to leave the factory around 1.45, meets up with his friends.

They get to the swimming hole. They jump into the creek and they jump in, like they're just wearing their factory clothes and then they jump in naked. Okay. They have no idea that half an hour earlier, Captain Cottrell saw a shark in those very waters. So soon after they get into the water, one of the boys feels something brush up against

his leg. And he thinks it's just a big fish. Like, it's this thing that drives me crazy about it is just like they couldn't know because they didn't know this existed in the world. So the first boy that feels it feels like it's a fish. And then another boy sees it in the water and thinks it's a log because that's the only thing that could be that big in the water and thinks it's a log because that's the only thing that could be that big in the water. Nobody's concerned about it until Lester starts screaming. The same dark object has just surged toward him, latched onto his body, and is now violently

pulling him under the water. Oh no. The boys panic. They all scramble out of the creek and without even stopping to put their clothes on, they just run back to Main Street to get help. And the first place they get to is the dry cleaners, where a 24-year-old tailor named Stanley Fisher is working. And like many other people in this tight-knit community, Stanley knows these boys, he knows Lester, he knows Lester has epilepsy.

When the boys tell him that Lester's been attacked by a shark in the creek, Stanley is skeptical. He thinks what's happening is that Lester's having an epileptic seizure and the boys just kind of don't understand it. So he runs back to the creek with the boys and they don't see anything. So Stanley starts to search the swimming hole.

Less than an hour later, he finally surfaces with Lester's remains in his arms. And at that point, there was a growing crowd of townspeople that were standing along the creek bed, including Lester's devastated parents. Oh my God. So just every part of it is worst case scenario, including this part. As Stanley swims back toward the dock with all the people looking on, the shark strikes again. No.

At first, it pulls Lester's remains back underwater. And then seconds later, Stanley screams, he's got me, the shark has got me. And witnesses describe Stanley ferociously battling this shark before being pulled underwater, resurfacing, and then spun around. Stanley's actually able to fight this shark off, and he gets pulled out of the creek by the townspeople. But his injuries are, of course, horrifying. Again, his thigh is stripped of flesh, he is gushing blood,

and the only thing he can say is the same phrase over and over, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. What a fucking nightmare. Well, the nightmare doesn't end there. No. Because half a mile down the Matawan Creek, another group of boys is swimming. So this is where all the people that wrote in were like, I think I only told Lester's story. I think I only told one of the attack stories. And people

were writing in like, are you insane? This was a whole thing. You have to look it up. And back then, my answer was, I don't have time. Please, please. I don't have Maren McClashen or any researcher in my life to help me with this. So these boys, they're fun, they're swimming around the creek, everything's great. They hear someone in the distance yelling shark. So they all start swimming to get out of the water. They race toward the nearby ladder to climb up onto the dock that's there. The last boy, the slowest in the bunch, is a 12-year-old named Joseph Dunn. Oh no.

You're not just telling me that for no reason. No, I'm not. The other boys climb up onto dry land, including Joseph's brother, Michael. They hear Joseph scream, he's about 10 feet from the dock, which to me is not close. Oh, like swimming wise?

No. No. And as they turn around, they watch Joseph get pulled underwater by a large shark. Joseph will later describe the feeling of being bitten as, quote, a big pair of scissors pulling at my leg and bringing me under. Which means he survived.

Which means he survived. The other boys in the group, including Joseph's brother Michael, waste no time to get him out of the water. Michael jumps into the creek himself and the boys create a human chain from the dock to Joseph. And then some adults hear the boys screaming and they come and they help and together they pull Joseph to safety. He is of course seriously injured, but he's alive. Moments later, Captain Thomas Cottrell, who's been going up and down the creek in his boat,

he arrives at the scene. Thomas tells them that they're going to transport Joseph back to Wyckoff Dock because there's already people there working on getting Stanley to the hospital. So he's like, we'll meet up with them. When a maimed Joseph shows up in Thomas' boat, the members of the Matawan community are stunned to hear that a third shark attack has taken place. Miraculously, Joseph Dunn survives this attack, almost certainly because his arteries were not severed. But so it wasn't the fatal attack. But the Taylor Stanley Fisher, who jumped in to rescue

Lester, he dies of his injuries at the hospital. And then a couple of days later, they find Lester Stilwell's partial remains in Matalon Creek. Oh my God. So, now the public reaction across New Jersey morphs from terror into a full-blown need for vengeance. Yeah. Not just for the four lives that have been lost and for the child survivor who now has a life-altering injury, but also, as you pointed out and the movie Jaws points out, millions

of dollars of tourism revenue is at stake because of this growing shark panic. So now people set out to kill sharks in New Jersey by whatever means necessary. Well, that's the solution. Just start fucking killing. Just start killing. Don't go in the solution. Just start fucking killing. Just start killing. Don't go in the water. This apex predator, like, yeah. They can't get you if you're not in the water.

I mean, the crazy thing, though, about that creek is how small that creek is. That's fucked up. You're right. It's not a river. It's like if they got into a pool. Yes. And you're like, wait a second.

What the hell? Yeah. So residents see this as an effort to clamp down on what they believe is an infestation of sharks. Life threatening, life, you know. Some people bring guns onto their boats. Other people use dynamite.

You're not going to get all the sharks. You can't. They don't know. They don't know how many are in there. They don't know anything. This is there. They don't know anything. This is just kind of a weird mystery thing. People use dynamite in Jaws, too. That was funny. As Richard Ellis, who wrote a book called Great White Shark, tells the History Channel, quote, there were a lot of attempts made to hunt for them, to shoot them, to blow

them up, to somehow rid the water of sharks. You can't. You can't. This panic actually goes and reaches all the way to the White House. On the same day that Lester Stillwell's body is recovered, President Woodrow Wilson, who is a native New Jerseyan, native dirty jurors, and he summers there. He calls a cabinet meeting to address shark attacks. And the people in Nebraska are like, hey, don't worry about that. Don't worry about that.

And when it's not white, it's like, can we actually talk about something else real quick? We've got a couple other pressing issues. So eventually, a young eight-foot great white shark is captured in New Jersey. It's reported to have human remains in its stomach. For many this feels like justice served. People accept that this might be the so-called New Jersey man eater that's been terrorizing the state. But many people are skeptical that these attacks could be the work of just one shark or any

of the sharks killed during the summer of 1916 for that matter. Researchers over the years have questioned whether the New Jersey man-eater's stomach's contents had any connection to the five victims, claiming that those so-called human remains could have been misidentified. And like considering what we know now of how many fucking sharks are out there, to find the one of five is not probably going to happen. Right.

And if they're 60, 75, 30 miles apart, then not to say they can't cross that in the ocean, swim that or whatever, but it's like these could have been just sharks being driven up into toward land. So they basically say that it seems possible the Matawan Creek attacks were the work of one desperate shark that might have just had to keep moving upstream in the tidal creek far away from its usual food sources, you know. That makes sense. It's desperate. And whether this shark has any connection to the other attacks is unclear.

So it's not one shark doing it all. And it probably isn't an infestation like people were imagining, like suddenly that we've got sharks. We got sharks. We have a flea infestation, but it's sharks. But it's just so many sharks. Oh, God. To this day, scientists and experts can only theorize why there were so many shark attacks in such a short span of time in New Jersey.

What's happening? What's happening? Okay. You think you're being attacked by a shark? I think so. A brain shark. Okay. Let me just redo that just for clarity, even though we should definitely keep that in.

To this day, scientists and experts can only theorize why there were so many sharks. Fuck it. Forget it. You it, forget it. You know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the reason? Yeah. It seems like a mix of factors.

For starters, a polio epidemic inspired many people to leave the city. It was an especially hot summer. Both of those things resulted in more vacationers heading to the beach that year. Extra people, extra sharks. Got it. Perhaps the sharks were particularly hungry.

One theory is that German U-boats were known to be patrolling off the US coastal waters. That's it, period. A fucking lot, yes. That's it. Because it's World War I right now. Yes, that's right. Dude, so they like pushed the Germans fucking,

ran the sharks to shore. Yeah, either the sonar made them go closer or less actual ships were not passing through those lanes they normally pass through and throw food and garbage off of, which the sharks would have eaten. Right. So they had to go in closer to the coast for more food. There it is. Again, the fucking Nazis. They fucking love sharks.

It could be, it also could be weather related. There were unusual Gulf Stream patterns in 1916, which made the water closer to the beach warmer, and perhaps a bit more enticing for cold-blooded sharks. I buy those, yeah, those are the two. Yeah. With all that in mind, all of that means greater potential for encounters between humans and sharks.

Whatever the reasons might be, these attacks would forever alter our cultural perception of sharks, but this reputation is what scientists now desperately want to shift. No, okay, no, we're fine with it. Well, only because of this. Because the second human beings start to get together and say we should kill a thing, they really want to keep killing that thing. I didn't mean kill it. I meant just like beware. Yes, yes.

Don't... Don't fuck around. Don't fuck around and remember that an apex predator means they're at the top. And they don't care about your feelings. Because sharks are invaluable to the marine ecosystem. Sure. Of course. I did not mean kill them, everyone.

Just put your fucking computers away. We're going to be super clear. Sure. Of course. I did not mean kill them, everyone. Just put your fucking computers away. We're going to be super clear. I don't want to kill sharks. No one's calling for the death of sharks. No. We love them. No, we do.

We love their teeth. The World Wildlife Fund reports. The WWF? The WWF reports. For example, that quote, and this is from mankind. Sorry. The wrestler. As apex predators, sharks fundamentally shape and maintain their ecosystems.

They've been around for 400 million years. Guys. Leave them alone. We're not going to beat them. No. Before trees first laid down roots. Shut up. Sharks first.

Sharks are older than trees? Yep Yep making them one of Earth's greatest survivors sharks and cockroaches More than 530 species of shark help protect the delicate balance of marine ecosystems benefiting oceans and the climate and they taste so good I'm fucking kidding. I'm even do it. To be clear, no scientists are arguing that sharks are simply, quote, big fish or that they're incapable of causing harm to humans. They just want to contextualize stories like these as the exception, not the rule. I mean, I was blown away 64 shark attacks

and only two deaths. Yeah. Was the data I gave at the beginning. That's crazy. They're just nibbling. They're just trying to give you a little nibble warning. You know what it is? Because we're not fat enough for them. We don't have enough flesh. Mimi bites me harder than a shark would. I fucking guarantee it. Well, let's not lie. I mean, come on. What if Mimi had three rows of teeth? Oh, you're so cute. The worry is that our fear of sharks, who are among the most endangered marine animals,

according to the World Wildlife Fund, will turn to complacency as certain types are nearing extinction. Fishing operations are responsible for upwards of 25 million shark deaths a year. Damn. A year. That's too many. Including many that belong to threatened species. Ultimately two things can be true at once, which is a big lesson we've learned

on this podcast. The deaths of those four victims in 1916 were tragic, terrifying, and traumatic. And at the same time, humans pose a much greater threat to sharks than they do to us, and we desperately need sharks for the health of this planet. Sharks, we're sorry. We love you. And that is the story of the 1916 New Jersey shark attacks. F**k.

That was so good. Wasn't that a good one? Yeah. It's even better if you do it a second time. Great job. Thank you. I'm going gonna double up. Can I double up on something?

Sure. Well, especially if you do it all fucked, like I seem to love to do on this show. Wow. Okay. All right. $10,000 for sure. No.

No. No. To WWE. No. To WWF? We could. Should we give 10 grand to the World Wildlife Fund? Have you seen only if they send us those shirts that have two panda bears and one of them's hitting the other one with a fucking folding chair?

Like that's... They don't make that. I know. But I fucking love it so much. In college, there was a boy that worked at the grocery store and he drove a white Vespa and he had a World Wildlife Fund sticker on that Vespa. And I was like, borderline I kind of want to follow you around. Because I was in Sacramento.

So I was like, where did you fucking come from? Where did you come from? Dude, I hit on one on Melrose once and it fucking ruined my little 19 year old heart. Did he? But it was so hot. Did he like the World Wildlife Fund? I don't think so. Vespa guy?

He didn't like anything. He was a narcissist, so no. But what's the connection? Vespa. Vespa. Oh, yeah, yeah. The Vespa guy, yeah. That's what...

They're the sharks of Melrose Avenue. Ooh, he was like a shark more than he was a Vespa guy Should we do what are you doing right now? Let's do it My first one's from a shark No This is from the gmail inbox and this one says what am I even doing right now? I own an early learning center and then parentheses it says shameless plug if you want to follow on Instagram at thegrowingpatch.elc. That's how you do it. That's how you do it.

And right now I'm listening while making breakfast for 45 tiny friends before they come in to start their day. That's right. Educate the youth by day and listen to the worst of the worst stories of humanity through the off hours. And then it says dot, dot, dot balance. And that's from Sarah. Very mindful. Very demure.

Very cutesy. Well, then I'm just going to say this one then. This is from the fan cult. This is from KDD. It's similar, but so different. It says, I am preparing a very extensive breakfast routine for my three crazy cats. Yay! The end. Yep. That's it. I have a long, beautiful one, but then it was just like, that's it. So it's

the same but different. What are you even doing right now? Let us know. Hashtag what are you even doing right now anywhere or email or fan culture. And if you can hear this and you're thinking about it, it doesn't have to be anything big or crazy. You don't have to have a business. They don't have to be changing the world or children's minds in any way. No, you can just feed some cats. It could be fucked up. It could be weird. We've got some good ones. The thing about this, I think we need to start reading more at a time

because there's so many good ones. Oh my god, there's so many good ones. We could have a whole, let's do a fifth episode. Uh-oh, fifth episode. Wait, is that fourth? Fourth. Fourth episode of just what are you even doing right now? We just love working.

And then literally is like, at this point we're just reading lists of things. It's like, is that good content? We don't know anymore. We won't know until we post it. That's right. And you tell us. Yeah. What have you been doing?

You, the listener. That's right. Thanks for being here with us. What have you been doing? The listener. That's right. Thanks for being here with us. Thanks for being here. And stay sexy. And don't get murdered! Goodbye! Elvis, do you want a cookie?

This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck. Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace. Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Ali Elkin. Email your hometowns to MyFavoriteMurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at MyFavoriteMurder and Twitter at MyFaveMurder.

Goodbye!