My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 447 - I'm There With You Now

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

On today’s episode, Georgia covers the murder of Albert Snyder and Karen tells the story of the 1985 SunValley Mall disaster. For our sources and show notes, visit www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Like the infamous deal on a new massager squeal. Save big on Prime Big Deal Days, October 8th and 9th. My Favorite Murderer My Favorite Murderer My Favorite Murderer My Favorite Murderer My Favorite Murderer My Favorite Murderer My Favorite Murderer Hello!

Hello! And welcome to My Favorite Murderer. That's Georgia Hardstark. That's Karen Kilgarafe. Here we are in the studio. In the same damn room together. God, it feels good. We're filming this for real this time. Yeah. No one's acting weird.

Everyone's being super, super normal and natural. I'm so normal and natural. I feel like so at home. Sitting up straight. Sitting up and using gestures and being on camera. We're surrounded by some murderino art, which I fucking am so happy for. So great, yes. Aaron Brown went through boxes and boxes of things that were in our storage unit and found all of the treasures that we have been keeping over the years.

Yeah, this is like vintage MFM listener art. Yeah, and people live show people that were like, I embroidered this, I made my grandmother embroider this. I did whatever. Right. Here's my insane incredible talent that I do on the side. I got it for you. That I made you a present of. Yeah. So send yours in too, because we want to start putting,

putting this shit on the wall. You can see the videos on Instagram and TikTok probably. What we, I don't know, what we're... What we're going to do. Yeah. Oh, we have big plans. So many plans. And schemes.

Schemes. How are you separately in your personal life? Oh, from... Off camera. Oh, yeah. Can I sit for real? How am I? I am okay. I shushed a girl at a coffee shop. Don't know where that came from. I guess that's the new me. How, reenact what was happening. Okay, it's this darling little new coffee shop in my neighborhood. It's so pretty. I get my matcha

latte because that's the thing. Gotta get those adaptogens. Take a seat to do some work. And there's a bunch of people, not a ton, but tables are taken in this little courtyard. People chatting, people working. And then I know everything about her. This real estate agent who knows a lot about FICO scores. I know this because she was talking so loud on her phone that I know everyone's fucking business that she's working with.

Yes. And it was so irritating. I put on my headphones and put on music. And you could still hear? And I could still hear her. No. So I just waved at her and put my, I was Janet. I was my mom.

I fucking said, shh, you're really loud with a smile on, but I mouthed that. And she like, you know, did the real estate smile and wave and stopped talking on her phone. Did she stop? Mm-hmm. I mean, I think that was a totally appropriate response and obviously effective. Yeah, like if she were talking to her friend who was there that loud, I wouldn't care, because that's what you do.

Yes. But don't take your fucking phone calls at a public place. That's like, not take, not even take, make. She was making them. And then kind of like, it was a performative phone call time. Right. And it was personal. Yeah, that's not good. Is that okay? I shushed a girl and I liked it. That's what I keep saying.

Well, also to make that decision, it's bothering you, so it's building up. So then it feels like a really big deal. But what you actually did was very polite. I smiled the whole time. I did it friendly. But it's also basically saying, hey, because sometimes when you're on the phone, I do it a lot. We're like, I'm in my car on the phone, and then I just walk into probably TJ Maxx on the phone.

And you don't make the adjustment because you have the people in your ears. So you think you're being quiet, and you are absolutely not being quiet. So she needed that help. Yeah. I don't know. It felt good in the moment. Did it?

It felt like what an older, like a grownup, like this is grownup Georgia would do. Right. Instead of just seething and sitting there seething. Or just snapping. Right. I would never snap. No, no, no, no. I'm so polite.

I would never. Throwing her, throwing your matcha right into her face in the same snap cell houses. It was an iced matcha, so it would just be like double weird. Just be kind of uncomfortable. Sticky. Just odd. What's up with you? God, I honestly like don't know. There's a lot of like going home after work and watching the same show, going to sleep, waking up at the same time. Here's what's up with me.

That's what life is. It's kind of life. But I need to be sprinkling in other things, like even going to a cafe. But I will tell you this, and I've done this now over five times. After I eat dinner and I'm watching some TV, I'm like, you know what? I want watching some TV. TV. Bring that up. Not TV. I think to myself, I'd like some frozen yogurt and I'm going to have it delivered to my house. And then I pick it and it's so expensive. I know!

It's idiotic. I should just get in my car and go spend $5 or $7 instead of $30. $30. It's fucking crazy. But what I do is then go to sleep. And then at 1.30 in the morning, open my front door and get melted frozen yogurt and throw it away. No, so you still do it and then you fall asleep? Then I fall asleep.

And then you throw it away. You know you can refreeze that shit, right? I don't want to. It's skunked. Yeah. Skunked frozen yogurt. But I've done it enough times where like the last time I did it I was like, you literally, you're not allowed to do this anymore. What's your order? Like what's your go-to?

Chocolate, even if they have Dutch chocolate, like a dark chocolate frozen yogurt with peanut butter frozen yogurt. Oh yeah. This is a Menchie special. And then Reese's peanut butter cups on the top. Fucking perfect. So it's like a true treat that I'm like, I want it and I deserve it. And then here we are at 1.30.

Throw in some of those fucking animal cookies, the pink and white animal cookies. I think they have them. I bet they do. Fucking gourmet. That's a great idea. And then let it melt and then don't eat it. And then go outside at 2 a.m.

That sucks. It's disappointing, but then like after the third time I did it, I'm like, this is your problem and you're like. That's a pattern. It's a real problem and really embarrassing. Tell us what TV show you're falling asleep to. King of the Hill. What?

King of the Hill. There's 13 seasons on Hulu. This is like blowing my mind of this doesn't compute with the you that I know. Do you think I hate Texas because you're wrong? I love Texas. It's not like it's not a judgment on your personality. I would have never guessed that. Well, so here's the thing.

I always liked it and I love the people that are on it and love everything my judge does, obviously. But I was like looking for, I was just like, I just want some comedy and something I don't have to think about. So I started watching it and then I realized it is so well written. So smart probably, right? So smart, the jokes are so funny, the characters are so real, and I was like, and now I have 12 more seasons of this.

There's an alien in it, right? That character? No, that's you're thinking of a different show. Oh, right. You know what I am? I am. Because you're like the talking dog. That's what it is.

What's their gimmick? Nope, it's like a real family. But there's a talking dog, right? No, that's Family Guy. What the fuck is wrong with me? American dad, family guy. King of the Hill. Okay, I'm there.

I'm there with you now. King of the Hill is, I'm with you. Kathy and Jimmy plays Peggy Hill. Pamela Adlon plays Bobby, the son. Toby Huss plays every other character. Okay, I'm here with you. It's so good.

I've arrived. Sorry, there's a little rosé in this coffee mug. Do what you gotta do. To be totally honest. Do what you gotta do to get through this video. Exactly right, media coffee mug. Mm. That's fun, that's a good like, pick me up.

I feel like I'll do that with The Simpsons sometimes. I know which one that one is too. That one I know. The one with the cat, it has special powers. The one with, it's an alien but it eats cats, that one. Yes. Yeah, a classic. I just finished listening to a book called The Women by Kristin Hannah, and it's about

this woman who goes to the Vietnam War as a nurse. But the whole book is really about the women who were in Vietnam in different capacities and are never acknowledged. And this one woman's like journey through being a sheltered girl in a suburban town as a nurse, going to fucking Vietnam and then coming home and what that was like. And that part really opened my eyes in a way that like I'm ready to have a conversation with my mom and stepdad in a way that I haven't had before. About what happened during that time?

Yeah. Like there's a lot of stuff I didn't understand. And you know, my stepdad was in Vietnam and I have questions. Like I did, I kind of understand their trauma a little more now. Yeah. And it's a great book. That sounds amazing.

Yeah, The Women. All right, should we do a little business? Yeah, so we have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights. This week over on Buried Bones, Kate and Paul head to an English bog in 1983 where the discovery of human remains leads experts to consider how the environment may have played a role in the clays.

Don't worry, you're just on camera. The clays. We need to have bloopers, right? Absolutely. Eventually. Because that one was so hilarious. So good. We need to have bloopers, right? Absolutely. Eventually. Once, once. Because that one was so hilarious. So good.

I said the place for Christ's sake, where the discovery of human remains leads experts to consider how the environment could have played a role in that case. If you're into bogs, I covered the Lindau woman in episode 294 of this very show on September 30th of 2021. I feel like our listeners can't get enough of bogs. episode 294 of this very show on September 30th of 2021. I feel like our listeners can't get enough of Boggs. They're mysterious and they also preserve bodies. Fascinating, I wanna listen to this.

Writer and producer Molly McNearney joins Bridger on I Said No Gifts this week. Don't miss your chance to get tickets to his live show in Brooklyn on October 13th. It's gonna be so much fun. If you're not a New Yorker, you can live stream it. My god, technology. Check at, I said no gifts on Instagram

for tickets and guest information. And then over on Do You Need a Ride, Chris and I hit the drive through with actor, comedian John Milheiser. Nice. And we wanna thank everyone who pre-ordered the Go Fuck Yourself mugs last week. We're so excited about them.

This week the MFM Merch Store is all stocked up with a true classic. You can find the here's the thing, fuck everyone, like Karen's koozie. We have sweatshirts and the vanishing ink mugs, which I think is one of our most popular items that we've had, where you put hot coffee in it and it says fuck everyone. It's perfect. Right. Yeah. That's one where you have to really watch it at work. Be careful.

Lastly, this is a reminder for listeners who like to shop. We have promo codes for all of our advertisers available online on our website, so you will never miss them. You just go to myfavoritemurder.com slash promos. If you're thinking of getting what? Pizza furniture? Quints. I just used ours for quints.

Did you? Yes. I use ours. Why not? Right? Yeah. Get in there. Yeah.

So the codes are there, like the ones we say really fast in the ads that you fast forward through. You can now go to myfavoritemurder.com and find them. Yeah. Let them know we sent you. Well, Karen, we did it. We survived the summer. Oh my God. There's just so many people I want to thank for getting me to this moment.

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That's squarespace.com slash murder. Goodbye. I'm first. Yeah. Everyone breathe. Mm-hmm. Everyone breathe. So I'm going to tell you a story today that I found after I saw a really disturbing photograph that comes from it. It's at the end of the story.

And then I found the story and it's wild. So it's one of many stories that are described as New York's crime of the century, you know, and it takes place in the 20s. So it's just classic. It's also the story that the 1940s noir film Double Indemnity is based on. You know that one? Oh yeah.

Okay. So this is the story of the murder of Albert Snyder. Okay. I didn't realize that movie was based on a true story. It's true. They probably say it at the beginning and I just don't remember, but I did go through like a noir movie, black and white movie. It definitely was related to drugs in the 90s. Yeah.

It's drugs or a guy you want to impress. Yeah. And you just sit there, we just sat there and watched like black and white movies all day. But man, they're good. They're so good. So good. The main source for this story is reporting from The Time in the New York Times and the

rest of the sources can be found on our show notes. Okay, so it's 7.30 in the morning on Monday, March 20th, 1927. And we're in Queens Village, New York, which is a suburban neighborhood in Queens on the Long Island border. I'm pointing to it as if I fucking have any idea. Yeah, you're like, it's here, it's over here. Right here? A nine-year-old girl named Lorraine Snyder is awakened by a pounding on her bedroom door. Lorraine opens the door to a horrifying sight.

Her mother Ruth is bound on the floor with a gag in her mouth. And Ruth tells her to go to the phone and call the neighbors. And the neighbors call the police and come over to help Ruth, whose hands and feet have been bound with picture wire. And when they get there, they see that the house has been ransacked, the drawers are open and empty, that kind of burglary look. Yeah.

Ruth tells the neighbors that she had been unconscious and that she had just come to and that she's afraid for her husband, Albert, saying that she doesn't know what happened to him after she was knocked out and she doesn't know where he is. So the neighbors open Ruth's bedroom door and see a pile of blankets and sheets on Albert's twin bed and they have visible blood stains. And they pull back the

linens and there is Arthur's body. The New York Times reports, quote, there were two great gashes in his head drawn tightly around his throat and tied was a strong picture wire. Two patches of skin had been torn from his neck where a powerful hand had gripped it." End quote. So it's grisly. When Ruth sees this, she's in the room, she screams at the sight of his body. So the police get to the Snyder house quickly and Ruth tells them her story. She says the night before, the family had been at a bridge party, like a bridge game, and they got home around midnight and mentions that Albert had gotten into an argument with another man at the party.

And then she says that around one or two in the morning her husband was already asleep and that she heard a floorboard squeak. And going outside to investigate, she saw one man and heard another. She says one of the men grabbed her by the throat and hit her over the head, and that's the last thing she remembers. And Ruth describes both her attackers, I'm not sure if she saw them both, but she describes them as, quote, two giant Italians. That's racist. Yeah, which is just like,

How dare you. It is. It's like a pattern of, let's blame someone. Let's blame somebody. Let's blame the immigrants. Right. Here we go. Sure. The police, to their credit, immediately think Ruth's story the immigrants. Right. Here we go. Sure. The police, to their credit, immediately think Ruth's story is fishy.

A doctor comes to the house, can't find any kind of injury on Ruth's head that would account for her being unconscious for several hours. Like, that'd be a hard hit, right? Yeah, you'd think you'd get a little lump. Yeah, right. And then when police search the house with Ruth's help, they discover that Albert's wallet with $110 inside is missing. In today's money...

$110. This is the 30s you said? 27. 27? Oh, that's going to be $500? This is how much money he has in his wallet. $3,500. What? Yeah, $110 will get you $3,500 of whatever the fuck you want today. Isn't that crazy? What's he doing? What does he need that kind of cash for? Well, you don't have credit cards probably back then, right?

Oh, that's right. And the banks always closed. Right. So some of Ruth's jewelry is also missing, but very shortly after that, the police find the jewelry underneath Ruth's mattress. So Ruth tells the police something that she forgot. She put them in there. She forgot she put the stolen jewelry under her mattress. So Ruth tells the police something that she forgot. She put them in there. She forgot. She put the stolen jewelry under her mattress. Oh, it hadn't been stolen. She had put it there like the day before or whatever. Right. Which is like, you know how you do.

But it would seem that she would point out it was stolen and then they would find it. And then she'd be like, oh, that's right. Yes. I'm lying. Essentially, yes. Ruth is taken to the municipal building for questioning, and while she's being questioned, she faints several times for dramatic. More than once? Yeah.

Okay. I mean, it's really so easy back then to like just have a fainting spell. Yeah, well. Get out of whatever the fuck you were in. It's because of those girdles. Oh, right. 27? Or it's because you're faking it. I mean, combo. Yeah.

Easy to fake it when you're girdled up. Jesus. It takes a few hours, but eventually the truth begins to come out. Ruth begins to talk about the trouble in her marriage with Albert, who was 11 years older than her at 43, which at the time is like ancient. Yeah. Right? Because everyone died when they were 52.

Exactly. She said, quote, he was just the opposite of what I am. I am young and I like to go out to parties and I have a good time and dance. He liked to stick around the house, end quote. Then why'd you marry him, Ruth? That's on you. While police are searching the house, they find Ruth's checkbook. And in there, there's a record of a check made out to a man named Judd Gray. So back at the building where Ruth is being questioned, police ask her casually, what about Judd Gray? These people, man. And she gasps and says, quote, did he confess? She's bad.

Under the mattress, you're hiding your stolen jewelry. Repeated faints, which is the fakest thing you could be doing. No hit on the head. Like, girl. The police had just wanted to know who he was, but now this whole story comes out. In short order, Ruth admits that she had been carrying on an affair with Judd. He was a married corset salesman from New Jersey. Hey!

Sounds sexy, right? Oh, wait! Oh my God! I'm like, they don't do corsets anymore. Anyways, this first thing in the story that I've definitely read before. It's because I used the less sexy version, girdle. Girdle. That's what my grandma used to call it.

Yeah. So she had been having an affair with him and she's like, he planned and carried out the whole thing. It's all on him. Sure. So she tells him where to find him and in his hotel and they bring him in and he quickly turns on Ruth after hearing that she has confessed and blamed him, of course, points the finger back at her and he basically tells the same story about the affair and the murder, but this time saying she was the mastermind of

the whole thing. So it's like a real quick switcheroo. That's how you know it's true love. So when you turn on each other. Both just accuse each other of everything. The drop of a hat. Oh my God. Ma'am, this is a Burger King. My husband did it. He did it. It's all Judd's fault. So Ruth had met her 11-year-old husband Albert when she was 19. He was an art editor at your favorite magazine, your favorite publication.

Harper's Bazaar. Motor Boating magazine. What? But not what you think. Not that, oh, you dirty. Well, it's not my fault. I didn't make it up. Not that kind.

You dirty. You dirty bird. It's not my fault. I didn't make it up. Not that kind. You dirty. You dirty bird. It says, Ali put in here in parentheses, a respectable publication about motorboats. She knew before I did what you're like. I was set up. I was framed. And she was a secretary at Cosmo. Politan.

Both magazines were Hearst publications, so they worked in the same building. They met, they married. After about a decade of marriage, Ruth was restless. She went by the nickname Gay Tommy because she was known for her love of nightlife and parties. Gay Tommy. Hey, it's Gay Tommy. Yeah. It's like party girl Ruth, but it, I Gay Tommy. Hey, it's gay Tommy.

Yeah. It's like party girl Ruth, but it, I guess, was more, it was more like slangy back then. Tommy, yeah. And Albert, as we said, likes to stay home. He's an older dude. I get it. Sure. It's exhausting. I mean, absolutely. As a person who doesn't leave home. In 1925, two years before the murder, Ruth had been at a restaurant in Manhattan when a friend introduced her to a man named Judd. As I said, he was a corset salesman and it sounds salacious and sexy, but he was just

kind of a pretty normal, quiet guy. He has a family in the New Jersey suburbs and at the time they meet, Ruth is 30, Judd is 32. So they have more in common, I guess. Regardless, he and Ruth have an immediate attraction, and one thing leads to another. They begin an affair. They meet regularly at the Waldorf Astoria. Classy.

So classy. And the hotel staff sees them so frequently that they know their pet names for each other. Ruth calls Judd Bud. Great. So good. And Judd calls Ruth. OK, ready for this one? Momsy.

Oh. Momsy. OK. I'm sure it means something else, but it sounds very. M-O-M? Mom-S-I-E. Wow. OK.

So by 1927, the affair has been going on for two years, and Ruth and Judd hatch the fucking classic plan to kill Albert and get some life insurance money. Ruth takes out a policy worth $48,000, forges Albert's signature on it. And this is the dumbest fucking thing. Like I hope this has stopped. The policy is a double indemnity clause. There you go.

So it would pay out double if Albert were killed in a violent act. It's like they're asking for it, for you to kill your husband. I would, Alejandra, do you mind looking up to see if a double indemnity clauses are now illegal or something? Because that is insane. Like, no. I thought double indemnity was like if you're accused of something and you get off, that's

Double Jeopardy. That's Double Jeopardy, which is also a great movie with Ashley Judd and Morgan Freeman, right? Is that the one where she gets trapped in the mausoleum at the, it's in New Orleans? I think, no. Yes, maybe. I don't know. Ashley Judd's been through some stuff in movies.

She's so good. It looks like they're still legal. But not that. I bet a double indemnity is a lot of different things, but it's, but that specific one, don't you think? Maybe. Yeah, because it's like accidental death. Yeah.

Okay. So on the night of March 19th, while the Snyders, they're at the bridge game, Judd sneaks into the house. This is the night of the murder. The family comes back, Albert goes to bed, and Judd attacks him with a four pound weight from a sash window, which is my old timey thing that holds down a window. Yeah. Sash.

Judd hits Albert on the head with the weight, but the blow barely stuns Albert and he begins to fight for his life. I know, it's awful. Judd yells out, quote, momsy, for God's sake, help, end quote. Just so awful. Using pet names while you're trying to murder your lover's husband is pretty weird. End quote. Just so awful. LAREE So the two then try to use a chloroform soaked handkerchief to suffocate Albert before finally strangling him with the picture wire.

All of this apparently happened quietly enough to not awaken their daughter Lorraine, who was sleeping across the hall, or Ruth's mother, who was asleep upstairs. This woman had her lover kill her husband in her home while her child was there. That's dark. That's dark. Wow. That's dark. They stage a robbery, and then Judd bounds Ruth before leaving the house and fleeing.

Binds? Binds. Binds, I think. So, all right, we know what happened. This case becomes a fucking media sensation. And it happens during a period known as jazz journalism, in which the tabloid papers compete for eyeballs with increasingly sensationalized news, many lower details as they can get in the newspaper.

So many children probably read those stories. Also Motorboating magazine. I mean, clearly it's jazzy back then. What's happening? It's a feature in Motorboat magazine. And they see it on the sex angle. Ruth is tall and blonde and beautiful and just generally they try to be as shocking as possible.

Even though Ruth says it was Judd's idea and Judd says it was Ruth's idea, the press runs with the narrative that Ruth was the mastermind, which I kind of believe from what the details I've read. Yeah. It's her husband too, you know. Yeah. Well, it's also more interesting when a woman is evil. Great.

Right? We're not supposed to be anything other than polite and delightful. God forbid. So, yeah. And it's just like, holy shit, check this out. Yeah. Yeah. She's nicknamed Ruthless Ruth.

Catchy. Who made that up? I don't know. You're fired. In many tabloids, she's called that. And as for Judd, the press refer to him as Mr. Putty, kind of like showcasing that he was just like a pawn in her game. Oh, okay. Mr. Putty, kind of like showcasing that he was just like a pawn in her game.

Oh, okay. Mr. Putty. Run it. Or what do they call it? Print it? I like run it. Run it. Yeah.

And most people still think that Ruth was the driving force behind this. So Ruth and Jed are charged with murder and the trial begins in May, just two months after the murder. It's predictably a complete circus. People line up daily to be among the 1,500 people allowed in the courthouse. 1,500? Yeah.

That's big. True crime is new. People are newly into it. They weren't into it back then. Sorry. Sorry, you fools. That's not true. Scam artists sell fake tickets to get into the courthouse

for $50 each. How much would you spend to get into a f— I mean, I know you wouldn't, but like, how much would you spend to get into a, I mean, I know you wouldn't, but like, how much? So there's a couple things going on, because it's like a personal decision of what, how much would you pay, but then also that long ago. So what is it like $1,000? $900. Holy shit.

People, but then you see the like documentaries of like the Lacey Peterson trial and those people, you know, they they pay a thousand bucks. That's their vacation. It's the same thing, but it's like that's the thing they want to spend their money on. It's their obsessive hobby where they need to be there to hear what happened and what's going to happen. And be a part of it somehow? Maybe.

Or just witness it ending. Yeah. I think there's a piece of it that's like the catharsis of like a decision will be made and this will be, like some sort of justice will be served. Yeah. In the end, both Ruth and Judd are convicted and they are both sentenced to death. So this is a famous crime, but it's best known now

for what happens on the day Ruth and Judd are both executed in the electric chair. And this is that photograph I was talking about at the beginning that I had saw. So they're both executed electric chair at Sing Sing Prison. It's January 12th, 1928, almost a year after the murder, really quick. Ruth's execution is scheduled for 10 minutes before Judd's. And so the press are invited to attend. It is, however, forbidden to take any photographs. But again, this is the jazz journalism age and New York City's tabloids aren't really

known for their ethics or decency. A reporter from the New York Daily News named Tom Howard manages to sneak in an elaborate miniature camera in 1928 with a small exposure plate strapped to his ankle. The camera is hooked up to a cord that goes up his pant legs and at the moment Ruth is killed in the electric chair, he picks up his pant leg, aims his ankle at her, and uses the cord mechanism to take a picture. And this is back when like, you know, photos are still kind of rare, right? Like, not a lot of people have cameras, I'd assume.

I mean, it seems like it was the time where if they did, they were like those ones that were like a big accordion. Yeah, and the film was really expensive. Probably, yeah. Yeah. The result is the first ever photo of someone being put to death in the electric chair. Didn't need it. No.

Don't want it. Picture is blurry because Ruth's body is shaking. It's very distorted. It looks like what you think it looks like, but it's clearly visible of what's happening. This picture is still widely circulated and yeah, it's just upsetting. So the photo runs on the cover of the next day's daily news

under a massive headline that simply reads dead. Can you imagine being a child going to eat your fucking, what do they have back then? Was Kellogg a guy yet? Yeah, I think they were there around for a long time. And that's like on the cover. That child was also working at the newsstand. Imagine waking up and getting ready to go to your job at a cigar factory where you're going to work for 12 hours for pennies. Smoking along the way as you walk down the street.

Right. And then you can't read the headline, but you sure can understand what that picture is. And it means nothing to you because you've seen the worst of the worst. Yeah. All right. Well, that is the story of the murder of Albert Snyder, which can maybe remind us that there never really was a kinder, gentler time

in America, which is a great point that Allie wrote down. Yeah, that's very true. I like that. I don't think it was gentler back then. No, everyone's like, I wish I could go back in time. And it's like, no, it's, no, you don't. You can't. You won't. God, that's disturbing.

Also, what an odd way to shoot that picture so that everyone else in the room knew something weird was happening. Yeah, it's disturbing. Also, what an odd way to shoot that picture so that everyone else in the room knew something weird was happening. Yeah, it's creepy. Wow, that was great. Thank you. It's spooky season, and I would like to say it's about time. And while it's the time of year for things that go bump in the night, Simply Safe is here to keep your home protected.

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It's M-O-N-E-Y-C-R-I-M-E-S. Goodbye. That's M-O-N-E-Y-C-R-I-M-E-S. Good night. Good night. Cleansing breath. Yeah. And moving on to more horror. Okay.

This story was recommended by a TikTok user. Their handle is at Matt Actor Gordon. And they basically tagged me on that TikTok and wrote, Karen Kilgariff would love doing a deep dive on this. Cool. It's so great when actors know you that well. Who is he? Is he like an actor actor?

I guess if you're putting that in your fucking name. Maybe his middle name is just actor. It was his mother's maiden name or something. We don't know anything about Matt Gordon. We do now. But he's a part of something. We don't know anything about Matt Gordon. We do now. But he's a part of this. He's made himself a part of it. He's now a part of my favorite murder lore. But what's weird is this is a disaster story from Northern California that I've never heard

of. What? Yeah, so that's, I think Matt knew what he was doing. And so I'm going to show you this picture, which is a postcard from the Sun Valley Mall in Concord, California. Is this current day? No, vintage. That's vintage. Oh my God.

So I'm bringing you to December 23rd, 1985. It's two days before Christmas. It's the height of the holiday season, and it's also the height of mall culture in the United States. It sure is. South Coast Plaza, what's up? I mean, what a time. What was your mall? The, god damn it. I think we called it the Santa Rosa Mall. Okay.

It might have a name, but we never called it that. And it was the only one anywhere nearby. So it was just like, we called it the mall, basically. I have to text my sister and see if it actually has a name. But yeah, like, so many things happened there. Huge. So many outfits were bought. So many people were seen.

You'd spend an entire, it's so crazy that like kids don't know this. Like you would spend the entire day walking around with your friend. Yeah. Ours had a beautiful, it's like really fucking high end because it's Orange County, but it had like a merry-go-round. Oh yeah. Like a vintage merry-go-round. Wow.

You would just spend the whole day wandering around this mall. Yeah. Have lunch, do the like, there's an arcade, like. Yes, there was all kinds of things to see and do. And then, yeah, if you were in Orange County, you had a wonderful carousel. If you were in Santa Rosa,

I think we had just a bunch of ferns by a bench. Either way, we were loving it. Glorious. So this is Concord, California, which is 30 miles east of San Francisco. It's a suburb at the time in 1985. It had 100,000 residents. So it wasn't a big city in any way, but it had this mall, which billed itself as one of the largest malls in Northern California at the time. Wow. Okay.

Now keep in mind that there isn't that much in Northern California. Like, basically, you stick to the coast, and that's where all the malls are. And there's about four. So the website SFGate describes the Sun Valley Mall this way. It says, it's one and a half million square feet. Yeah, featured three anchor stores. You'll probably be able to guess what they were. Macy's, J.C. Penney. Sears. Yep. You said J.C. Penney. So now I know that that makes total sense.

Sears is always going to be in there. Sears is always going to be in there. One of the funniest things of all time is me and my dad going to the Santa Rosa mall to return something like three days after Christmas. And we entered the mall through the Sears and we walked by the line for people trying to return stuff at Sears. And it was just, you know, it was just a scrappy group of people. And my dad turns to me and goes, Jesus, it looks like the line at Lourdes. What's that? It's too Catholic. It's too Catholic. You can cut that out.

No, leave it for the Catholics. What does that mean? Lourdes is the place in France where the miracle took place and they have a thing and people would go there with like their crutches and their different stuff to go get killed by the waters. Your dad's dry jokes are fucking classic too. He can make a reference. He's got a good like rye under the radar. That's why you like King of the Hill. Yes, exactly. That makes sense. I like a little wordplay. Yeah.

But also it was like he saw one person probably had like a weird eye patch and somebody else had like a walker. Oh no, so it was like a comment on those people too. Yes. It was like a motley crew. He was being like a snob. Oh my god. But it was, it was, it was funny.

With his pinky in the air returning his... He's a real snobby. He loves Beethoven. Don't forget. Okay, so this is still the quote from SFGate. And then it says, the other numbers were equally eye-popping. The Sun Valley Cinema seated 1,500 patrons. No, I don't want to be in there. Too many fucking people.

Leave me out. Don't touch me. What is that? That's... What is that? The size of the King's Theatre in Brooklyn? What are we talking about? Yeah! That's insane.

9,000 cars could be parked in the enormous lot. Ten minute cars. Inside the San Francisco Chronicle wrote that's, so SFGate is quoting the Chronicle within this article. Oh my God, it's a fucking, what's it called, an inception. The decor included murals, fountains, indoor gardens, and planters, sculptures, and statuary. There was never a mall that didn't have a fountain though. Yes.

That's incredible. That was kind of part of it. I bet you that was like the ASMR of a fountain. Right. Was calming to people. That's right. Because like the lighting and the, yeah. And like you're supposed to spend all day there.

So you, yeah. You kind of just love it. And you're like just gliding from store to store. I want to go to a mall now. Muzak. I know I really miss it. Well, yeah. You kind of just love it, and you're like, just gliding from store to store. Oh, my God. I want to go to a mall now. Music. I know. I really miss it. Well, yeah. Hot dog on a stick. Yeah.

So, since Christmas is two days away, this mall is packed with last-minute shoppers. It's worst-case scenario, because I'm about to tell you a disaster. Oh, yeah. This has been fun, but... Yeah, that's... We have to put our joy-fruity malls out. Yeah. This is... South Coast Plaza is our joy from malls out. Yeah. The South Coast Plaza is where I wrote about in Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered

that I got caught stealing from too. Oh. Wow. Charlotte Russe. Where did you steal? A pair of earrings. Yeah. Secret shopper grabbed me. She was pregnant, real pregnant. And the woman who like, she took me in the back office too,

said to her, the other woman said, are you ready to have one of these? Like pointing at me. Like juvenile delinquent. Yeah. Oh, shit. Okay. They let you off with a slap on the wrist, right?

They tried to charge us and my dad, like my dad, the hero, I didn't tell my mom, she didn't know for years, like wrote them a letter about how I legitimately had some fucking mental health issues and that was the problem. I'm wearing a necklace that says depression right now, so I don't feel weird saying that, but yeah, my dad saved the day. Wow. Any last tidbits about the mall you want to get out before we get into this? No, I think I'm already into what I know is coming. I don't yet. Let's do it. Yeah. So, the mall is packed with last-minute shoppers.

It's 8.35 p.m. Thousands of people are hurrying between stores, bags in tow. Christmas music is playing overhead. It's two days before, not after. Correct. Two days before. And of course, Santa's there. There's a North Pole scene set up in the main corridor outside of two department stores, Macy's and a store called Emporium Capwell, which was like one of our main stores. Really? Up north.

I wonder if it just never got anywhere else. What was it? My mom called it the Big E because on the outside there was a huge neon E. And it was basically a different version of Macy's. Oh, okay. It's a department store. No, I never heard of it. So basically, there's a bunch of families down in this area.

Young children are waiting in line to tell Santa what they want for Christmas. And there's also Sesame Street characters, Big Bird and Cookie Monster, that are down there entertaining kids and doing skits and taking pictures. Why are they there? Because it's Christmas and it's like, come to the mall and do your shopping and have a moment. And then there's a loud buzzing sound overhead, followed by a huge boom. And right there, above Santa's workshop, there is a huge explosion. In the blink of an eye, this idyllic holiday evening transforms into a full-fledged nightmare.

This is the beginning of the deadly 1985 Sun Valley Mall disaster. How have we not heard of this? Right? It sounds like fucking Die Hard. That's crazy. Okay. So main sources for this are several articles from the Oakland Tribune and the San Francisco Examiner Archives.

Also, SFGATE is always in the mix. For sure. There are several articles from the Oakland Tribune and the San Francisco Examiner Archives. Also SFGATE is always in the mix. Oh, for sure. You can find the full list of sources in our show notes. So an explosion goes off, right? And according to one witness, people started yelling bomb because no one knew what was going on and the explosion was so concentrated that most of the mall is completely untouched by it. It's just in there by Santa Station, kind of the worst place it could be.

Yeah, absolutely. It's a very busy part of the mall and so it's immediately mayhem. One shopper will tell the Los Angeles Times, quote, a fireball came rolling down, exploding all the Christmas ornaments. Oh my God. I felt this tremendous shudder of the building. The 37-year-old actor playing Santa Claus will later tell the Sacramento Bee he had to rip off his burning Santa suit as fire engulfs the entire area. Imagine a child seeing that.

Right. No, this is true horror show. That actor said, quote, At first I thought the Christmas decoration lights nearby me had exploded. All kinds of things began raining down on top of me. Then when I saw the fire, I threw my stuff and took off. I mean, I really ran. Later I found my beard and cap, but I never could find the wig. And what happened wasn't, of course, Christmas lights exploding or a bomb. A twin-engine airplane carrying three passengers crashed into the mall's ceiling through a

skylight. Shut the fuck up. Yeah. This plane was attempting to land at the nearby Buchanan Field Airport. It's a half a mile away. But it's the Bay Area, so there's heavy fog that night. So now the plane crashes into basically the mall roof. The tail is sticking out of the building.

It explodes and then just basically rains down metal and shrapnel and all this stuff on everybody. It's Santa's workshop. So I wasn't even on purpose or targeted or anything. It just, the plane just fucking flew into the— A horrible accident. The worst possible place in the mall. Oh my God.

So flaming airplane parts fuel glass from the shattered skylight are raining down through the mall's atrium and onto the two floors of people below. The San Francisco Examiner describes the hellish scene where in an instant, quote, hot metal falls on children, fire sears the clothes off of adults, and shock spreads across thousands of faces. What people report seeing in those very first moments of this disaster are truly horrific. A retail worker named Steve Casada remembers, quote, I looked up and there was fire coming through the roof. I guess it was the jet fuel, but it looked like it was raining fire. I ran back in there and the heat, it was like wind on my back. A little

girl, this is horrible, a little girl came running up who was on fire. We had to throw her down and throw sweaters on her to put it out. Oh my god. It's very bad. A 14-year-old boy named Vincent Amston is standing outside of the stores near this common area, waiting for his mom to finish up shopping nearby when this crash happens. Physically, Vincent seems to be mostly okay. He's far enough away from the wreckage that he isn't seriously injured, but his testimony shows how even those

who are spared the gruesome injuries still have terrible deep emotional scars. Vincent actually hears, quote, somebody in the plane crying for help, burning on fire. Oh my God, in the plane that had crashed. In the plane. This is still Vincent's quote. He was saying, help, get me out.

I'm burning. I don't want to die. And that's a 14-year-old kid just standing there at the mall. This is, I can't even. The man stopped screaming within seconds. Vincent later tells the Oakland Tribune, quote, I just went away. I didn't want to see anymore. Disassociation is your friend?

Yeah. Contra Costa County, that's where that is. Yeah, we know that from All Begone in the Dark. Yeah. So county supervisor named Sonny McPeak was also shopping at the mall when that crash occurred. And they put it, quote, nobody who was there and saw the horror could forget about it.

No. But as we've learned from telling these kinds of disaster stories, the same people who are caught in this nightmare immediately become helpers. So it is the upside of a horror. His life is horror. And so how do we deal with it? You help other people. A police officer named David Silstra tells reporters, quote, I would have thought there would have been more panic, but a lot of people were comforting the people who were in shock, who were injured. There was a tremendous concern for the injured, and people just swung into action immediately.

Oh, my God. So doctors who were at the mall. So this is incredible. You're already starting to cry. I mean, but it's that kind of stuff. We have to remember these pieces of these stories. Totally. Things happen to people people and then people help people. And people become their best selves in that moment and that's what humanity is. Yeah.

If only we could like channel some of that during less traumatic events. Yeah and remember it. Doctors who were at the mall doing some last-minute holiday shopping rushed toward the scene and immediately set up a makeshift triage inside of Macy's and began treating the wounded. They're aided by strangers, including a 19-year-old Macy's employee named Jennifer Gale, who runs from store to store to getting ice for burn victims. So she basically goes to the store and says, like, bring me to your employee refrigerator, give me any ice you have. Steps away, a 39-year-old

contractor named William Sheehan hears a woman screaming for help. She's buried in burning debris. He manages to pull her out. He rushes her to the mall's fountain and douses her body in water and burns himself in the process. He will later learn that this woman's name is Pam Stanford and she's 22 years old. Oh my god, baby. Meanwhile, down the mall's corridor at a restaurant called the Magic Pan,

a shopper named Beverly Williams has taken it upon herself to set up a meeting post for families and friends who have been separated in the chaos. Wow. Just doing it. Yeah. Here's what I'm good at and and I'm gonna do it right now. Yeah, here's what's needed.

The managers of Magic Pan are not only helping out with also coordinating that, but they're also handing out free coffee to people as they're waiting for their loved ones. And one of those people was a 26-year-old man, and this is no relation to the detective from the O.J. Simpson case. His name was Mark Fuhrman, but no relation.

Wild. He will later tell the San Francisco Examiner, quote, I know at least 40 or 50 people who found people they were looking for right here in the restaurant. I personally notified about 30 people over the phone that their relatives were safe. Wow. Yeah. So now while the people in the mall are taking care of each other a 28 year old Emporium Capwell security guard Named Ed Rien Khan rushes up a set of stairs out to the emergency exit on the mall's roof

And so now he's staring down at the tail of the burning airplane that's stuck in the roof And he's trying to figure out if he can save any of the passengers inside Wow He's trying to figure out if he can save any of the passengers inside. The Oakland Tribune reports, quote, because the upper roof is on a higher level than the main section of the mall roof where the plane was embedded, Ed shimmied down a 40-foot pipe to reach the crash. Shimmying down a 40-foot pipe? Yep, to get down there to help those people. When he gets there, he can immediately see that one of

the two remaining passengers is dead, but he isn't sure about the other one. And he later says, I don't know if it was nerves, but it looked like he moved. I tried to get him away, but the flames were so hot they singed my jacket. So Ed immediately rushes to find the nearest fire extinguisher, then he runs back to the plane to try to put out the fire. But Ed won't be doing this alone for very long, because there's a very strange silver lining here, which is Contra Costa County had been carrying out multiple disaster drills the past four months.

And incredibly, the man in charge of organizing those drills, Contra Costa County's medical director Dr. William Walker, is at the mall that night. Oh my god. So the second this thing starts, Ed Walker sprints to his car, speeds five miles up the road to the Sheriff's Dispatch Center, and immediately starts directing emergency responders to go to the mall and get to the scene. Oh my god, first responders, we love you so much. The San Francisco Examiner reports, quote, within seconds, ambulances were rolling.

In minutes, doctors were en route to 11 hospitals in the county to await the injured. Two minutes after the crash, police cars arrived at the scene. Five minutes after the crash, the first fire engines arrived. Ten minutes from the disaster, ambulances were at the mall. So all in all, 30 ambulances, 50 firefighters, 70 police officers all get to the mall within an hour of this crash happening. That's crazy. Now, Ed Wren Kahn is still up on the roof trying to extinguish the flames of the airplane when firefighters

and EMS workers arrive and take over for him. Ed doesn't take a breath. He knows there's people inside that still need help, so he runs back downstairs into the mall and starts tending to shell-shocked shoppers in any way he can. Ed tells a reporter, quote, everybody turned around and just started helping. It makes me feel better knowing that. Ed tells a reporter, quote, everybody turned around and just started helping. It makes me feel better knowing that. Yeah, that's like the thing between like complex PTSD probably and like not is like doing what you can.

Yeah. In some cases. Taking action. Taking action. Yeah. Feeling if you have some control over the situation. You can do something. Yeah.

Yeah. So, dozens of people are rushed from the mall to the eight local hospitals and four burn centers nearby. And there are teams awaiting their arrivals. Non-medical staff like secretaries and therapists also show up to work ready to help handle the influx of patients suddenly arriving at those facilities. Amazing. Like, two days before Christmas.

So crazy. One doctor, James Betts, says, quote, you just never expect anything like this to happen at Christmas. We have a number of doctors and nurses who've given up their Christmas holiday. It's the least we can do. Yeah. Like what does it mean if there are people suffering? Yeah.

That's right. Yeah. So these medical professionals spend the next several days working to stabilize their patients, many of whom have second and third degree burns covering their bodies, and many of those burn victims are children, some of whom have been separated by their parents, the parents also being treated at different hospitals around the Bay Area. So tragically people die as a result of this crash, either at the mall or later at the hospital, including the 22-year-old woman Pam Stanford.

She was from Antioch, California. She was the one pulled from the wreckage and then placed in the mall by William Sheehan. Oh, honey. She was at the mall that night, having her engagement ring reset with a new diamond. She was supposed to be married in two months, days away from her bridal shower.

Her bridal shower became her funeral date instead. Oh my god, sweet baby angel. Pam's stepfather describes her to reporters as, quote, a wonderful person. Another victim is a 49-year-old woman named Shandrika Shah of Walnut Creek. She passes away about a week after the disaster. She had been sitting in the common area beside her husband, Kunjavadan, when the airplane struck the roof. Shandrika left behind two children, and her husband, who was permanently disabled in this disaster, tells a reporter at the time, quote, I feel

like I'm lost. I lost my wife and my health. My children have lost both parents. Oh my God. Yeah, my wife and my health. My children have lost both parents." Oh my god. Yeah, so tragic. So sad. So, a 45-year-old woman named Patricia Larson of Lafayette dies months after the crash from complications caused by an infection because of her burns. The Oakland Tribune describes her, Patricia, as, quote, a mother of three, an animal lover, an amateur photographer, and a scout mother of Boy Scout an animal lover, an amateur photographer, and a scout mother of Boy Scout Troop 222.

EI. End quote. So Patricia's sister-in-law Jan tells reporters that in lieu of flowers, the family asks for donations to be made in Patricia's name to the hospital where she received care. Wow. Yeah. Jan says, quote, the money will go for education of the nurses and special equipment. They've done so much for Pat.

The family is very grateful. That's beautiful. Yeah. So, so the three people who are aboard, and of course, there was other people who died. There are three people killed who were aboard the plane. The pilot was 67 year old James Graham. He was an extremely experienced pilot. He had over 15,000 flying hours under his belt. He had a commercial license. He was a flight

instructor. He actually even founded his own flight plane company. So this was not like operator error. It was a freak accident. It's so hard because you want to blame someone. That's like the first instinct is to blame someone, but tragic accidents happen. They do. Another passenger was 23-year-old Brian Oliver, who was a senior at San Francisco State University. He was a journalism major. He was an aviation enthusiast, and he found inspiration in everything that had to do with

the Buchanan Field Airport, including James Graham, who he worked for part-time. And Brian's brother Sean says, quote, he loved flying any opportunity he'd jump at it. The other passenger, 48-year-old John Lewis, was a financial consultant from Oakland and a father of five. He was also interested in aviation. He'd only recently met Graham while shopping at his local drug store, and the two were introduced by their pharmacist, Tom Brewerton, who thought

they'd bond over their interest in flying. And of course, Tom later says, quote, I introduced them and they made arrangements to meet at the airport. I'm feeling strange about this. Intellectually, I know there's no way I forced John to go, but emotionally, I feel a little responsibility. Through me, he went on the ride. This is such a strange feeling." Yeah. You can't help but put those little patterns together. Yeah. Yeah. So, alongside the casualties, around 80 people are injured in this disaster. Their road to recovery is long.

Many victims face months of hospital treatment, followed by more months of rehabilitation, and they're often left with permanent disabilities and scarring. So we know many of the victims are children. One of those children is a young girl who was 10 years old at the time named Danielle Gallardo She suffers severe burns and she spends the immediate two months after the crash in intensive care She remembers the difficulties of her returning to school She says quote my physical therapist talked to the class to kind of prepare them for what they were going to see

But you know how younger kids can be So it's kids who are now have, they have their own, you know, difficulties and pain. Yeah. And then they're trying to, they basically have to get back into the social life of children, which is like. But I love that they did that. They sent someone to talk to them because that seems so rare for back then. Yes. You know what I mean?

Yes. In fact, there's a lot of that here in Contra Costa County, which is like, it's the 80s. Yeah. So they were like, get back to work, fucker. Yeah. But they handled this amazingly. So right after the crash, the Contra Costa Health Department creates the Sun Valley Survivors Network to connect people with resources, the program supervisor, Manuel Velasco, explains, quote,

we're trying to offer the people involved in the event a space to talk about their reactions to the accident, a chance for emotional debriefing. People experience something they never imagined in their lifetimes. By December 26th, which is the day after Christmas, the network is already holding daily group therapy sessions and offering private counseling.

That's incredible. 1985. Yeah. Yeah. Bay Area newspapers run information about crisis hotlines, which offer immediate help and promote a number that survivors and victims can call to access individual therapy sessions. Fortunately, there's also an understanding that there are no quick fixes here. Gail Bataille, a mental health professional also employed with the county, tells the Oakland Tribune,

I think it's important for people to understand the first response to something like this is shock, grief, numbness, horror. But very often in these kinds of traumatic disasters, people will experience problems down the road as well. Lack of sleep, nightmares, depression, anxiety. They need to know that it's not just the first couple of days that support will be available to them. So they're messaging publicly that there will be like long-term support for this. It's incredible.

And there are some other bright spots in this very sad and very dark story. For example, just two days after the disaster, a 20-year-old waitress in Stockton, California, I keep saying California, in Stockton named Cathy Rincón receives a Christmas Day call from a cousin. And that cousin tells Cathy that they've just seen a photo of her half-brother, Ed, in a newspaper article about the plane crash at the Sun Valley Mall.

Cathy hasn't seen her brother in 10 years, and she's only seen him once since the two were separated as children because of an unstable domestic situation. Ed ended up in the custody of a family in Richmond while Kathy was raised by an aunt in Stockton. So she says, Kathy says, quote, I tried to get in touch, but I never could find him. I kind of slowed down and started living my own life. But when I saw him in the paper, I was so happy because he's my brother and I love him." Oh my God. So after learning Ed is employed at the mall, Cathy leaves a message with him there, and

Ed, who's been searching for her, calls her back immediately. I can't. That's... He says, quote, I called her at work. I said, Cathy, it's me. It's your brother, Edward. There's a pause. And I thought she hung up.

I said, Kathy, and she just started crying. Oh my God. I can't express how happy I am. It took a newspaper to bring us together. What a Christmas. I wanted to cry. I mean, life is so fucking bananas. Life is really hard.

You can still visit the Sun Valley Mall today. It's still years, all these, it's still there all these years later. And there's little evidence of the disaster ever happening. But traumatic memories of the event live on with the survivors and the victims. Bay Area newspapers occasionally check in with them. And in 2010, the Oakland Tribune catches up with Danielle Guiardo, the 10-year-old that we were talking about. She's in her mid-30s when they check in, she's married, and she's the mother of four. In the interview, Danielle notes that her injuries have made it more

difficult for her to find employment. She also discusses how she's had to have conversations with her children about why she has scarring on her body. But then the article closes with a nod to Danielle's strength, calling her, quote, surprisingly upbeat and paints the picture of a little girl who was only in fifth grade when this disaster took place that through her own determination navigated this life-changing event to become the definition of resilience. The reporter writes of Danielle, quote, the devastated 10-year-old of 25 years ago grew up

to be a pretty remarkable woman. Oh my god. And that's the story of the 1985 Sun Valley Mall disaster. Karen, top 10 stories you've done. Think so? Yeah, maybe top five. Devastating. Just a freak accident.

And also, it's like Concord is close to where I grew up. It's not super close but it's not far away. It's part of the little community of Northern California, like suburban Northern California. Right and it's just like the idea that something this big happened when I was in high school. Yeah. So crazy. That was incredible. So thank you Mark the actor for recommending that. Mark! You get a gold star, bro. You get an Academy Award for that recommendation. And you can be on our IMDB page now. Wow. Great job.

Thank you. Should we end on some nice, what are you even doing right nows? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, let's see. Someone sent this to the Gmail. What are you even doing right now? Karen, Georgia? What am I even doing right now? I'm designing teeth. I Am a dental technician, which means I build crowns and abutments and then in parentheses fake teeth You ladies have been with me every day for seven years building fake teeth with me and today's episode

Maybe jump for joy when you were talking about gold teeth I recently designed a tooth with you. It was a golden tooth with a pot leaf designed into it. Thanks for always standing by me, ladies, and making my workday more enjoyable. You rock. Keep killing it, Jessica." Wow. What an incredible job that you can't have a bad day at, because you'll ruin someone's

fucking life. You know what I mean? That's right. That's terrible. This is from Instagram. It's Katie, period, Marie, period, Scott. What am I even doing right now? I am at my desk working at my state's crime lab, finishing up my first 200 training reports as a forensic scientist. Wow.

Most of what I was even doing the past several years was working in labs and eventually obtaining my master's degree in forensic science last spring. Thank you for always being there for me, ladies." And then there's an emoji that didn't translate. I have another one from the Gmail also. It says, Hi everyone at Exactly Right, what am I even doing right now? I'm at work doing your MFM puzzle with my coworkers.

It's the hardest fucking puzzle I've ever done. It's going to be framed and hung on the wall afterwards. Keep up the great work, Abby." Hell yeah. Oh my god, that's amazing. Okay, my last one is from Instagram also. It's Jessica Lee Cobb, K-O-B. I am listening to MFM as I drive my toddler to daycare on my way to my job as a sixth grade teacher. Georgia just very clearly said, oh shit. And guess what I just heard from the backseat? That's right. My almost two-year-old's very first curse word as she repeats, oh shit, oh shit, oh shit. I may need to rethink listening to MFM while she is in

the car. LOL. Yep. She's not a baby anymore. It's over. It's over, dude. You got a toddler now. You just hit the threshold. Yeah. You do not want that child repeating this insanity. Absolutely not. Please be careful. Be careful. Thank you for listening. Tell us what you're even doing right now. Yeah, we love hearing. It's really satisfying to think about us doing this here and then what you're doing on the other side of those headphones.

It makes us feel like we're everywhere all at once. It's wild. It's the omnipotence we've been looking for this whole time. All right, stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Ah! ["My Favorite Murder"]

This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck. Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace. Our researchers are Marin McClashen and Ali Elkin. Email your hometowns to myfavoritMurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at MyFavoriteMurder and Twitter at MyFaveMurder.

Goodbye!