My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 448 - Something To Strive For

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

This week, Karen and Georgia cover the 2015 Clinton Correctional prison escape.  For our sources and show notes, visit www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hello. And welcome. To my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar. And that's Karen Kilgarafe. And this is a podcast that we talk about true crime stories, our lives, your lives, hot dogs, grandparents. All kinds of things. All the things people like the most. Yeah, like that's why you're here. That's why we're here. That's why you're here. That's why you've been here for fucking eight and a half, almost nine years. God, thank you for staying that long.

Thank you guys. Like we're in a real relationship now with them. Yep. We might as well get insurance. Oh, I thought you were going to say matching tattoos. Oh, do you want to do that? With who? With you or with the whole, with everyone?

With you. I mean, how many people are we talking about here? I mean, I feel like mass matching tattoos is cult behavior and not maybe not something to ask for or want. Or something to strive for. Or your eyes have lighted up. Yes. You know what I love? I love when like older ladies like in their 70s get a tattoo. Sure.

I think it's the coolest fucking thing. It is actually. Yeah. Or do heroin. I like when I reveal that I have a tramp stamp. Me too. And I don't reveal that I have a tramp stamp. Me too. I don't think we remind people of that enough. We're going to get to that episode and rewind our third episode every week, where we go back and listen to old ones, where we both find out at the same time

on the episode that we both have tramp stamps. We both have tramp stamps and we say, this is God's will. It's peak 90s. What's happening here was meant to be. It was written in the stars. Absolutely. Because you wouldn't think I have a tramp stamp. Absolutely not.

And you wouldn't think it would be a salmon. Mine's a little less not hard to believe, I would think. Because what is it? A butterfly? Two little hearts on my butt. Oh yeah. That's cute. It's pretty cute.

Yeah. I like it. It's pretty cute. Yeah. I like it. Mine was... A salmon. Like an anatomical... Yeah, a true representation of a salmon spawning, which wasn't any supposed to be metaphoric in any way.

And it was really more of a sign of like complete alcoholic dysregulation. Do you think you'll ever get another one? No. No? and it was really more of a sign of like complete alcoholic dysregulation. Do you think you'll ever get another one? No. I don't want this one. I need this one off me. No, it's fine. You can't even see it. I forget that I have them back there. That's just the beauty of a tramp stamp. It's not your problem anymore. It's those others.

All those others. That won't get out of there. Speaking of 90s, I went and saw the band Pulp over the weekend. How'd it go? It was amazing. And I'm gonna tell you, it was at the cemetery, but I think only people in LA know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Because that's the Hollywood Forever cemetery that has their like movies on the lawn and with dead, with fucking graves everywhere. Yeah. And now they have shows there too. And I saw Pulp and it was like if you're bummed out in a bad mood and you need a pick-me-up, put Pulp on.

It was so good. Jarvis Cocker is like 60 something and he was fucking killing it in a way that was like so impressive. Was it, so it was outside or it was inside that Mason's Hall? Outside, like the big lawn. Wow. Where they show the movies, yeah.

And there was a ton of people there? Yeah, a ton of people there. It was beautiful. That's very cool. Yeah. It's also kind of- I needed it. I needed it.

Yeah? Yeah. You needed a little public group effervescence. Yeah. Made friends with a girl on the porta potty line, for sure. Nice. Have you ever seen that TikTok of the girl that kicks her way out of a porta potty

and knocks the other girl senseless? No. Like with the door? She hits her with the door? that kicks her way out of a porta-potty and knocks the other girl like senseless? No. Like with the door? She hits her with the door? She kicks her way, like she clearly... Why are you standing that close to it? Well, it was like her and her friend made a little plan so the friend's recording it and so she's like, when I leave this porta-potty I'm going to kick the door open and it's just...

Someone walking by? Yeah, there's nobody around but then all of a sudden it's just this one girl. Or maybe the girl set the camera up and that's why no one warned her, but it is really one of my favorite things I've ever seen. Oh. But those doors are just light plastic. Yeah, yeah. They thwap.

If that happened to you and you're the person that was the victim in that video, would you go ahead and send us an email telling us if you're okay? Are you okay? Should we not be laughing right now because... Like any other door and it would have been hilarious. But a fucking port-a-party is like slapstick. You don't want those touching you. You don't want to touch it.

You don't want to be touched by it. And you certainly don't want it smacked into your face. And high fives to the fucking cemetery because they were clean and nice and not that bad. Oh, that's good. Nice. What about you? How. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Nice. What about you? How are you? I'm good.

I was incredibly excited to discover. It kind of felt like the night that I was home when the first episode of Lost premiered and I just happened to be sitting on the couch watching that channel. So I was like, oh, I'll watch this. Amazing. And then I felt obligated to watch the entire series. I watched the whole fucking thing, like, as it came out, yeah. It was kind of great.

It was a great experience. It was. Jonah Ray would throw these, like, lost potlucks. Yes. And, like, if you can't bring anyone, because if they fucking ask, who doesn't listen, if they ask a single question, everyone's, like, mad at you for bringing them. For ruining the, how you're doing it. It's a specific thing, though, group watching.

You have to make sure you're on board. But anyway, so my friend Zach Noe Towers, you might know him from comedy and podcasts and all different things. He and I were going to pick a movie and then we turned on Netflix and here comes Monsters, the Lyle. Oh my God, I have it written down to talk about. Oh my God. Erikan Lyle. Lyle Menendez story. Yeah. But what was incredible to me was that I was, as I was watching that first episode, I went, oh my God, because we kept looking at each other and saying, Zach will go, did that really happen? I was like, well, it must have because it's in this series. I don't think Ryan Murphy bullshits and makes shit up.

Maybe he embellishes, but. But I don't think you really can in that story because the story you don't have to know What's to embellish in that fucking thing this story? I am excited. I've only watched two episodes I really can't wait to watch the whole thing because I feel like there's some shit that like we all need to Yeah, and no yeah, I do think so sexual assault by, by the way, is sugar warning. I mean, horrible abuse and also a real study about how these things kind of came out and were tried in the court of public opinion. Totally.

In a different day and age where it was fodder for just late night talk shows and you know funny things. Where nowadays it's like you can't, you shouldn't and can't fucking do that anymore. This is a spoiler for anyone who hasn't seen it. So skip ahead real quick. When Eric is driving somewhere and it's Halloween and the people walk by and they're dressed as them. Yes. That's the thing where Zach was like, did that really, could that really

have happened? And I'm like, it must have because it was probably in one of their memoirs. Totally. It was like two months later, I think, was Halloween. Yeah. And it was already like the story. So, so gruesome, so extreme. And he witnessed it. I would love to know if that really is true, true, because I'm not positive. Yeah. Oh my God. It's incredible. But like it's also showing it's like holding up a mirror to us in our awfulness. Yes. In a little big way. Yeah. I was like so incredibly thrilled to discover that I got to watch that last night. You just sat there and watched it. What a gift. It really was. I think it's really well done. Those two young actors are so good.

Yeah. Really good. They really are. Yeah, I'm excited to get through it. Did you hear about the little boy who went missing in 1951 at six years old, was found alive and reunited with his family? I just read that this morning, like before work.

1951, he was taken from a playground in Oakland, California with his like 10-year-old brother who probably has lived his entire life with this like awful feeling. And then the niece, her name is Alita Alquin, does a DNA test, matches with someone, it's like here's your percentage, it's like an uncle, and of course she knows the story. And puts it all together, goes to the police and is like, this is something. Did that mean that he, the uncle and the missing boy also put in his own DNA? Yeah, he must have at some point. It looks like a woman kidnapped him, took him to the East Coast and they raised him as their son. Like that just baffling. And yet best case scenario for something.

I know. That's just incredible. And it gives you hope for other families with missing children. I mean, God. Yeah. Yeah, that's big. Huge. Love that shit. Yeah. Oh, the missing boy who's now a man was named Luis Armando Albino, by the way. Incredible.

Yeah. Anything else? I mean, those are two great pieces of news back to back. I don't know what more we need. Truly. We should tell everyone we are taking a little vacay as one needs and wants to do after a really crazy summer. So we're going to do solo episodes.

Karen's going this week. I'm going next week. You're going the following week. We're still here. We're just recording early. So if something crazy fucking happens, don't be like, why didn't you talk about that? It's because we're not, we're in the past. That's right. Also, if that's the kind of thing that you need us to be doing, you have to find a different podcast because us being like current events,

I think this episode is the most current we've ever been in our lives. And it's coming out in two weeks because we're recording it ahead of time. Damn it. Shit. We're so good at this. We have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights.

Well, you can follow Exactly Right on social media so you know what's happening this week on all your favorite podcasts over here, including That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast, and This Podcast Will Kill You. So go to at exactly right on the different platforms. So, our new weekly podcast Rewind with Karen Georgia is out now and it features the episode of My Favorite Murder, number 13, and our reflections on crimes from the 1980s. So, please take a listen. Yeah. And if you love My Favorite Murder, which I hope you do

if you're listening and you're not hate listening, please go rate, review, and follow the show. Wherever you get your podcasts, it just gives us a little boost. We appreciate it. Also, if you are hate listening, God bless. Because it still counts. It does. You fool.

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And this is quite a story. You may know about this story because you may have seen the recent TV series that was highly acclaimed. It takes place in Danemora, New York, a small town near the Canadian border surrounded by the Adirondack Mountains. Writer Charles A. Gardner, who is a local to that area, notes in his book Danemora, it's also, quote, a company town if the New York State Department of Corrections counts as a company. Okay.

I knew that name sounded familiar. Yeah. Okay. So the engine of Danimora is undeniably the Clinton Correctional Facility, which is one of New York's largest maximum security prisons. It's housed some of the state's most infamous criminals, including David Berkowitz, the son of Sam, club kid killer Michael Allig, and Heriberto Seda, the New York Zodiac. So these are all stories we've covered on this show.

If you want to listen to any of them, it's Son of Sam is episode 87, Michael Allig is episode 135, and the New York Zodiac Georgia just covered episode 438. So if you ever pass through the town of Danimora, you can't miss this prison. It's intimidating 30-foot-high perimeter wall borders the town's main street. So it's right there. Yeah, in the center of town. So if you live there, the chances are you either know someone who works there or you work there. But if you've never heard of this very quiet part of New York State, you still may have heard of Dan Amora

because of this recent event that put Clinton Correctional Facility on the map for all the wrong reasons. It's been rehashed in books and documentaries, and of course of course as I said the acclaimed 2018 Showtime series. This is the story of the 2015 Clinton Correctional Facility Prison Escape. So good. So sources for this story are the book Danimora by Charles A. Gardner, a 2015 New York Times article by N.R. Klinefield entitled Broken Boys Boys, Thieves, Killers, and Now Escapies, and a June 2016 report from the New York State Inspector General's Office. And the rest of those sources are in our show notes.

So first, we'll talk about the two escapees. Their names are David Sweat and Richard Matt. So in this Showtime series, and so for visualization purposes, David's sweat is played by Paul Danno. So excellent. And Richard, Matt is played by one of my very favorites, Benicio del Toro. Oh, wow. All right.

That's a vision in my head. Yeah. So now we know. So, David and Richard both came from very rough childhoods. So, as they grew up, they gravitated increasingly towards more and more serious criminal activity. So both of them spent most of their adulthoods in prison. Wow. David Sweat is 34 years old.

He was first incarcerated when he was 17 years old. And since that time, he has only spent three years out of prison. Holy shit, man. That fucking eats you and spits you out. Yeah. And then takes you right back in. So at the time of this story, David's in prison for the 2002 murder of a sheriff's deputy named Kevin Tarcia that happened on the 4th of July of that year. David was 22 years old when he murdered the sheriff's deputy. He and some accomplices had robbed a fireworks and gun store. And Officer Tarcia approaches them.

David shoots him multiple times and then runs him over with his car and he's still alive. Holy shit. So obviously then the officer is killed by all of that. David's apprehended two days later. Now he's in Clinton Correctional Facility serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole. Wow. Okay. Our other escapee is 48-year-old Richard Matt, Vinicio del Toro. He's 10 years older than David. He's been in and out of prison since he was 19.

And over the past 30 years, he's spent around five years as a free man. So these guys have... Career criminals. They're career criminals. And Richard Matt has an extensive and a very violent criminal record, including convictions for assault, rape, and burglary. So now he's in Clinton Correctional for the 1997 murder of a 76 year old man named William Rickerson.

Rickerson ran a business buying and selling almost expired food that Richard worked at for a few months in the mid-90s. He was fired and after he was fired, Richard and accomplice broke into Rickerson's home, bound him with duct tape, demanded money. Rickerson didn't have a bunch of cash lying around the way that Richard seemed to expect. So Richard and his accomplice savagely beat Rickerson, threw him into the trunk of his car, periodically tortured him, and then Richard basically broke Rickerson's neck with his own hands.

Oh my god. So okay, I didn't watch the show. I did not expect this. These are violent, serious fucking criminals. It's not what I thought you were going to say. Yeah, I know because it was kind of presented. Well, yeah. Well, you see Paul Dano and you're like, oh, Paul Danow.

It's going to be like a quirky, fun, kooky thing. Like he's in a thing because he robbed a bank and no one got hurt. That's not... No. No. It also gets worse because Richard, after he kills Rickerson, dismembers his body and tosses body parts into a river. So for this, Richard is now serving 25 years to life in Clinton Correctional.

But despite their sociopathic violence, David and Richard know how to act like good inmates. So over time, both of them are moved to the prison's so-called honor block, which is a special cell block that inmates earn being on through good behavior. There they can spend time outside of their cells for most of the day. They can cook. They can freely use the phones. They can, for the most part, dress how they want. They're also offered unique work opportunities like assisting outside electricians and plumbers contracted by the facility. So you're basically rewarding sociopaths for being the most sociopathic they can possibly be, which is making themselves blend in with society and seem, you know, normal.

Right. And I think in prison, that's valuable in the day to day because they're not constantly creating more and more chaos. It's like, okay, well then there's something to like work up toward. It's like, okay, well then there's something to like work up toward. So these are two men without much to lose. They know they're both going to probably or definitely spend the rest of their lives in prison, which is a place no one wants to be for even one day, much less the rest of their life. So on the honor block, David and Richard become neighbors. And being neighbors, they start talking. And that talking leads to planning. So over time, these two men carefully put together

a plan to tunnel themselves out of prison, Shawshank Redemption style. Wow. And one critical element of that plan is 51-year-old prison employee Joyce Mitchell. So is 51-year-old prison employee Joyce Mitchell. So, Joyce is a devoted mother. She's a regular at her church. She's married to a enduring husband named Lyle. Lyle also works at the prison. And actually, Joyce and Lyle both work in tailor shops at Clinton Correctional,

but not the same. There are eight different tailoring shops on site. So, they work at different ones. Interesting. So in this job, Joyce basically stands on a big platform at the head of the room and she supervises about 50 inmates who are sitting behind sewing machines churning out prison uniforms for less than a dollar an hour. Right. Okay. That makes sense.

So she's the one that gives men their assignments, she keeps track of their progress, and she signs off on their finished work. And like anyone hired to work at Clinton Correctional, Joyce knows that she has to maintain an emotional distance from the inmates, never reveal personal information to them, or it could be used to manipulate her or leveraged against her. But above all else, and for extremely obvious reasons, she should never get romantically involved with an inmate, obviously. But by 2012, this is four years after Joyce first begins working at the prison, her colleagues begin to notice

some questionable workplace behavior. It starts out benign. At first, she's just too chummy with the men in the tailor shop. She's seen laughing at their jokes, smuggling in home baked goods, maybe the occasional McDonald's combo meal. But word gets around and eventually Joyce is written up, but she evades any real consequences. And then around 2013, prison staffers and inmates start to notice that Joyce is becoming close with a particular inmate in the tailor shop, David Sweatt. Paul Dano. Paul Dano. That's right.

Got it. So, she's seen giggling while she's having one-on-one conversations with him. No giggling in prison. No giggling appropriate. She's even seen draping her arm around his shoulders at one point. No touching. But no touching. But also this is that thing of the incredible attraction of sociopaths and psychopaths. Totally. If that is what he is. Charm. Yes. They know how to work people. Manipulation. Yep, for sure. So then in July of 2014, someone within Clinton Correctional anonymously sends a letter through

the prison's mail system claiming that Joyce and David are romantically involved. So they both deny having a sexual relationship, but the allegation is taken seriously enough that they are separated. David is reassigned to a different job. The two no longer have access to one another. Writer Charles A. Gardner says that Joyce, quote, broke down and cried after David's reassignment and, quote, appeared angry through her tears and announced to the tailor shop that she wanted a drink when she got home. So it's like it's already we're too late. It's already too late.

It's too late and maybe it's a person who shouldn't have been in a position in the first place. Yeah, like overseeing people. Yeah. Shouldn't have been. Yeah. Maybe. There's a vulnerability piece that maybe she wasn't even aware of. Totally. That once she's in, because look, everybody wants to be liked. Everybody wants to be desired. Sure. Life is boring as fuck. And when something exciting happens, it's like, you kind of go with it and get sucked in. Also, workplace romance is especially effective because you're not supposed to. It's a taboo. You know you're not supposed to.

Right. So, that's fake fireworks right there. Because it's just like, if you were sitting next to that person at the mall, would they be that gorgeous? Probably not. Right. So meanwhile, Richard Matt, Benicio del Toro, he also works in Joyce's tailor shop. He sees all of this go down and he sees an opportunity. Oh, no.

He can tell Joyce has a crush on David and he believes that can work to both his and David's advantage. So like most inmates at Clinton Correctional, David and Richard have a decent sense of the building's layout. They know that behind the prison walls, there's a catwalk where the building's plumbing and electrical systems can be accessed. So a lot of inmates in the honor block are very familiar with this catwalk because they've been assigned maintenance jobs there. Right.

So, David and Richard become familiar with this catwalk thanks to a guard named Gene Palmer. Richard is a skilled artist, so he starts trading his paintings, which is very interesting to me. Did you see them? Like, what's the deal? I didn't. So, one of those favors involves allowing David to access the catwalk under the pretense that

he needs to go fix the electrical circuits that power his and Richard's jail cells. Hm, sketch. It's all sketch. Like, think about it deeper, you know what I mean? Like, give it one more thought and then don't do that. Why do they want to go up there? You must ask yourself. Truly, you must.

And how beautiful are these paintings that you're just like... I've got to see it. I mean, okay, so after a while, David feels pretty sure that he and Richard could break out of this prison through that catwalk. But it isn't as simple as just making a quick break for it. They have to be slow and methodical, and they're going to start by carving their way through the back walls of their prison cells, Shawshank style. Right? So they basically can go out those holes and then slip up onto the catwalk without anyone knowing. So obviously that's not an easy thing to do. The walls are made of steel.

Are you fucking? This is like, this would work in the 1940s. Right. But it's not gonna fucking work today. I mean, you would think it wouldn't. Sure, yeah. So they're made of steel, but they're not particularly thick. So they basically just have to get through the steel. Okay.

Richard and David figure they just need a couple basic tools, mainly hacksaw blades, to cut through. So for this, they turn to Joyce Mitchell. Okay, oh, who plays plays Joyce by the way? I forgot. What's her fucking amazing soprano's face, right? No, it's Patricia Arquette.

Oh, jeez. And she played it and she also won a Golden Globe, I think, for the role. Like she's amazing. She is incredible. Anything she does. Yes. Thank God you asked that because I should have said that at the beginning. I was thinking Edie Falco and that's where I was, like Sopranos in my mind.

But now I'm like Patricia Arquette, like she's kind of cute and innocent. A little more vulnerable. Yeah. Although Edie Falco can play anything. Oh, fucking amazing. The range. Did you see the J Duplass movie that she's in when he gets out of prison? No.

And she's like his teacher from high school who helped get him out of prison. And they fall in love. No, oh my God. Can you look that up? Outside in? Yes, thank you, Alondra. It's called Outside In. Really moving movie.

I don't know why I thought of that. Okay, go. Anytime you can recommend anything with Edie Falco, I will watch it, for sure. She's so fucking good. And if you haven't seen the series Nurse Jackie, you absolutely have to. My god.

So good. Unbelievable. There's part of me, and I think it's because my mom was a nurse, but there's part of me that wants to walk around in those kind of nurse's scrubs that have those pockets in the front. The idea that she was walking around with pills

in those pockets is so appealing to me. Is that why you were a nurse for Halloween, the night we hung out? First time I hung out? Did you love it? Did you feel so good? It was, well kind of. It was comfort.

I knew the blue would look good on me and I could get it at CVS. Do you wear them around your house ever? Be honest. Ever. No, I don't even know where those ones are. Oh, and also because I could wear clogs. Oh, right. So it was essentially like day to night.

Totally. The best outfit of all time. Yeah, okay. Okay, where were we? We were, Joyce Mitchell being pulled back into the scheme. So Richard still sees her regularly at the tailor shop he works at. So he figures he's gonna now become friends with her and

then they'll go from there. He turns on the charm and he basically pulls her in to their escape plan. And basically he builds her up over time, testing the limits of their friendship with small favors and basically is feeding Joyce the fantasy that this is all going to end in a big reunion with David. Okay, so there's no love between, like there's no sexual chemistry or anything like that between the two of them. It's David. She's... I think he is basically like...

Like dangling that carrot. It's like, my friend likes you, seventh grade energy. Shit. Okay. So to be very clear, neither of them have a romantic interest in Joyce. They are using her. According to a 2016 investigation by the New York Inspector General, Richard at one point tells David, quote, she's fucking nuts. She'll bring us whatever we want.

Just tell me what you need and I'll get her to bring it in, end quote. And so that's exactly what happens. Yeah, that's tough. That's, I think, every girl's worst nightmare. You've fallen for someone who not only isn't interested in you, but is actually just trying to work you in some way. Yeah. That's a nightmare. Nasty. I think there's a special place in hell for people that do that to people, like on the promise of fake romance.

Like the gaslighting and the, like, you know, maybe I'll fall in love with you if you become, if you're the perfect person, and so you try so hard. I mean, yeah. Yeah. It's really ugly. And then it's just like, just to kind of get you by. For what?

Like, what? I mean, for this, like, weird ego boost. Yeah. Right? Where, like, most of us are trying to, like, live a happy life. Yeah. It's just like, go find someone else.

No, totally. What do you, why would life. Yeah. It's just like, go find someone else. No, totally. Why would you? Yeah, like don't. Yeah. Just don't. Just don't. Look, don't use me to escape prison again. Don't.

Please, please, please. These, a lot of these stories are very therapeutic. So the two start relying on Joyce to smuggle in tools for this escape. And she doesn't have to be clever about her own smuggling in of the tools, because the guards never bother to check her bag when she's coming in. They're supposed to at the start and the end of all workdays. Yeah, especially because she was reprimanded, right? Yeah, she was kind of a, she was a question mark employee.

Not good. She does get creative about her smuggling sometimes. There's one example that a lot of people reported on where she hides contraband in raw hamburger meat and then freezes it and brings it into the prison. And that's, it's an odd thing to bring to work anyway. It's not like you're bringing something that's like, oh, it's my lunchbox and I hid something in the lid. Whatever. Kind of like a loaf of bread and hollowed it out. I'm just giving suggestions. Nobody

allegedly. Realistic. Just bring yourself a big baguette. But frozen meat? Gross. So Gene Palmer, the guard, not only looks the other way at this frozen meat, he delivers it to the inmates without asking any questions. So many moments for this to not have gone forward. Right. And it's like, so is Gene Palmer in it for like, does he have a connection and he is such an art lover? What is like-

Or he just doesn't give a fuck anymore. Yeah. So meanwhile, Joyce's husband Lyle is noticing poor Lyle. Poor Lyle. He's noticing his wife is sneaking things into the prison. According to the New York Inspector General's investigation, Lyle tells Joyce to be careful that she could lose her job. He doesn't know what this contraband is for, but he seems to think that Joyce must be doing something harmless because he never tries to stop her. So once David and Richard get the tools they need, they take turns cutting through their

cell walls every night for weeks. One works while the other stands guard. And they do it during the noisy recreation hours at night when the honor block is buzzing and chaotic. The guards are very busy. So they're scraping metal and it's pretty loud but they pick the perfect time to have it like kind of covered. And when they're finished for the day, they clean up the metal filings with magnets. Ooh, magnets. Magnets. How do they work? And then they dump the magnet debris down a sink or the toilet, and they cover their

progress with anything they can. Pictures, clothing, their bed frames, so that the guards passing don't see anything different in their cells. Right. You've got to get complacent after a couple years working as a guard there. I mean, you shouldn't, but one would think, you know, like... Well, everybody does it every job. Every job.

Every job. I worked on Hot Topic, and I was bored as fuck in three months. Absolutely. You know, like, absolutely. Well, everybody does it every job. Every job, every job. But then I worked a hot topic and I was bored as fuck in three months. Absolutely. You know, you try to find it, but also that is an incredibly stressful job. There's a lot of a lot to worry about. Probably a lot of overtime. So you're fucking tired and like weird hours and shit. Yeah. And just like it's like you're dealing with the people that had to get taken off the streets of society. Right.

And like, so, yeah, you're constantly on guard, but also you could be murdered at any moment if you don't pay attention. So you're paying attention to these other things, something's going on over here, you don't notice. You think you don't have to worry about this area. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, which I think is the long con of these two, like, quote unquote, making friends with people. Totally.

It's something my sister and I laugh about a lot because my mom used to come home from a full day's work at a mental hospital and we wouldn't like help her make dinner. And we were just like, man, man, we didn't realize. Yeah. It wasn't for you to fix. It really wasn't. It wasn't. So, then my therapist would say that.

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Age healthy with one skin. Goodbye. So, as the New York Inspector General's investigation notes, quote, officers failed to properly conduct at least 15 required weekly inspections of cell integrity to include examination of bars, floors, vents, walls, and the rear cell from the catwalks. So in fact, many officers testified they were not even aware that they were supposed to be doing those required checks. The inspections, if performed as required, would have revealed the breaches in the walls of sweat and mat cells. So they just kind of lucked out. All the while, Richard and David are continuing to manipulate Joyce. So Richard's steadily been acting as this courier between her and David, and they are sending very sexually explicit messages back and forth. So it has escalated just from, my friend has a crush

on you. Oh no. Yeah. And then Richard starts demanding sexual favors for being that go-between. Oh, shit. Joyce will later say he asks, quote, almost daily. And Joyce complies, but she maintains these encounters with Richard were coerced, they were not consensual, she just thought he was a friend, but she also knows he's a violent murderer.

So she's kind of painted herself into a corner in all of this. As documented in the New York State Inspector General's investigation, Joyce even takes nudes, prints them out, and brings them to work for both Richard and David. She later admits that the two men, quote, zoned in on my unhappiness, unquote. Yeah. And that she says, quote, I was caught up in the fantasy. I enjoyed the attention, the feeling both of them gave me,

and the thought of a different life. Yeah. Yeah. It hurts. It does. Everyone is susceptible. Totally. Totally to something like this.

Oh, my. But you kind of have to go, everyone's susceptible, therefore, what are we going to do? And that's why we have a red light or a red flag that you stop at. Yes. Yeah, you have to have those internal checks, especially somewhere like that where it's like, oh, you're not dealing with the average person. Totally. You've got to go in there thinking like these people have an agenda and they're smarter than you in certain ways. And they have needs and wants that you'll never understand, which is like being free. Yeah, for real, which is a very legitimate and compelling goal. And also I think it's like a tough place to work so if there is

something nice or fun that starts happening then you're trying to make the most of it. To wake up every fucking morning and have something to look forward to. But this isn't the office. So around this time a colleague of Joyce files yet another complaint but again nothing comes of it. So after a month, David and Richard have managed to cut rectangular holes in the back of their respective cells that are big enough for them to squeeze through, just big enough. And then at night, they do that. They push themselves out of their cells and they go explore the catwalks pathways through the prison. They

are able to do this in relative freedom because they know that no guards patrol the catwalks pathways through the prison. They are able to do this in relative freedom because they know that no guards patrol the catwalk. But they do take some precautions. They leave dummies in their beds that are basically sweatsuits stuffed with odds and ends arranged to look like they're sleeping. The classic. They're not particularly convincing, but the guards never notice from that same inspector general's report speaking about David specifically, who seems to spend the most time on the catwalk. They note, quote, sweat's almost nightly absences where he toiled in the tunnels were never detected.

The facts are compelling evidence that officers regularly failed to conduct required counts. In the time Sweat was out of his cell, a total of more than 400 counts should have been conducted. If only one of the counts was done properly, the escape plan would have been instantly stopped. So eventually these two men are able to map out a path to the outside world and then begin burrowing. They reach obstacles along the way like piping that's a little too tight of a squeeze to get by or a literal brick foundation so they basically figure out how they're gonna bypass it and basically what tools they need to ask Joyce to smuggle in for them to do so. Joyce is being regularly

updated on their progress. So she knows everything. She knows everything. Okay. At one point, David and Richard are out, like, on the catwalk, and they find an eight-pound sledgehammer that's been abandoned in the tunnel system. Abandoned sledgehammer? Yeah. Like, can we not?

Not only no, they cannot. Later, they find an entire toolbox that's been stashed there by a prison contractor. So now they have power tools to work with. Friends, please. It's really everything's going their way. Yeah. It's almost like they were like, we're gonna get caught any night. Let's just see how far we can go. And that just kept not getting caught. And so they kept going further and further.

Yeah, because imagine the anxiety you or I would have if you snuck out a whole you chiseled and just were fucking around. Like wouldn't you be like, we should go back, we should go back. Well, only if we thought we were going to get in trouble. They're already in there for fucking 25 to life. So what, they're going to give them double life? Like they don't, the consequences aren't there the way they are like with us. Yeah, true. So basically on June 4th, 2015,

after about five months of chiseling and shimmying and squeezing their way through these walls and pipes and everything, they finally reach a tunnel that connects from inside the prison to an outside powerhouse. And along this tunnel, they find a manhole that opens onto the street above. It is a quiet intersection in Danimora and because the nearest prison towers haven't had

overnight guards for decades, it is the perfect place for their getaway. So the men are smart about it. They don't just escape right then and there. They go back to their cells and they iron out the final details. And so on the next night, June 5th, David and Richard put their plan into motion. They take a soft guitar case, which I guess they got to have there. They basically think it'll look inconspicuous once they get outside the prison. So they use it as a suitcase. They pack clothing, food, basically stuff that they can take so they won't have to stop anywhere along their escape route.

They have a bunch of granola bars, pepperoni sticks, they have packs of peanuts from the commissary. And before he goes, Richard writes a note that says, quote, you left me no choice but to grow old and die in here, I had to do something. End quote. If I was there, I would say, Hey, Richard, you left you no choice. Remember your actions that had the consequences that brought you here?

Richard, remember the murder? Okay, so then they leave their cells, they walk their escape route one last time. And thanks to Joyce, they don't have to worry about coming out that manhole and hiding immediately in downtown Danimora because she has agreed to wait in the intersection and serve as their getaway driver. I wonder at what point she was like, I'm in love and I'm and we're having a secret relationship in prison to like, I'm going to help you escape. Because that's just like a line that was crossed there. You know what I mean? Yeah, but it feels to me like once it got to, to me it feels like,

once it got to Richard demanding sexual favors just for her to get a message to her crush, she was, it was kind of out of her control. That makes sense. And also I wonder if he ever threatened like, well, or I'll tell. Right. Who knows, but she also plays a key role in the next phase of the plan,

which ends with all of them assuming new identities and escaping to Mexico. That to me seems like the fakest part of this whole plan, where it's like, you actually think these guys are gonna be even friends with each other outside of this, much less with you. So the thing is, that night, when the men pop out of that manhole in Danimora, Joyce is nowhere to be found. Oh, fuck.

Because it turns out that Joyce has suffered such an intense anxiety attack that Lyle had to drive her to the hospital and she was admitted for observation. Oh, wow. So she was trapped, it seems. And she knew it was wrong and, you know, it kind of like this was her one chance to exit out the side door. So David and Richard's grand escape has now gone sideways. But there's no going back.

Then they have to figure out how they can, like on foot, put as much distance between themselves and Clinton Correctional without a getaway car in a town where everybody works for the prison. Yeah. So it takes prison authorities six hours to realize that these guys are missing. Six hours. Basically overnight, I think. A massive search is launched involving canine units, helicopters, hundreds of officers combing

through the prison, as well as the dense forests and sprawling fields that are all around. Teams go from house to house in Danimora, questioning residents to figure out if anyone has seen the men. Over the following days, more than a thousand officers joined the effort. They set up roadblocks, shut down state highways. They follow scent trails with police dogs. Yeah. How fucking terrifying for people who live around there.

Completely. David and Richard evade all of this somehow. It's of course extremely unsettling for the residents of Tanahmora and the surrounding communities. The idea of two convicted murderers being on the loose of course has everyone on the edge. And then of course meanwhile an immediate media frenzy brings news trucks and reporters right into this small town and before long the entire nation is glued to the TV watching this unfolding drama.

I completely remember when it happened. Yeah, people don't like escapees. No one's happy about that. Everybody wants to watch until that is concluded somehow. Totally, like a car chase. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So while everyone's at home watching on TV, David and Richard are trying to head west, but it's a very difficult journey with no

vehicle. Charles A. Gardner, the writer, describes their careful movement, writing, quote, walking on a road was safe only at night, walking off the roads was possible only in the daytime when snags, briars, and pitfalls were visible. But diving into underbrush or sticking to the tree line, they managed to avoid being spotted. That's wild. Yeah, it is. So with each passing day, the search effort escalates. New York State

posts a $50,000 reward for information leading to each man's capture, which means $100,000 if the tip leads to both men's capture. And then the U.S. Marshals Service adds another $25,000 to the pot. David and Richard's faces are plastered across more than 50 billboards throughout the Northeast, while news outlets continue to keep the story in the headlines. Sixteen days pass with a flood of dead-end tips, no confirmed sightings. And then on June 22nd, a man calls police and tells them that he thinks that there are strangers camping out at his hunting cabin in Franklin County, New

York, which is about 50 miles from Clinton Correctional. Okay, perfect. So when investigators search that property, they don't find David and Richard, but they do find prison-issued underwear and DNA evidence that is eventually connected to both of them. They have clearly been there, and it's been recent. So with this big sudden lead, the search that was at one point very expansive finally narrows. A few days later on June 26th, a driver towing a trailer is passing through Duane, New York.

It's spelled Duane, but it's pronounced Duane. Until a bunch of people from Duane write in and go, that's not how you pronounce it. This is 50 miles west of Clinton Correctional. So this guy towing a trailer, he hears a loud noise. He thinks he's blown a tire. He later discovers a bullet hole in his trailer. He calls the police and they suspect that this might have been the work of the escapees hoping to steal the trailer from the man. So officers descend on the woods near where that driver heard the gunshot and while they're searching,

so kind of this is a great thing to picture, they're walking through woods you know in the way that they do, trying to figure out if they're there and they hear someone cough. Oh, a cough. Why a cough? Trying to like keep it in, probably. It's Richard Matt. So Matt comes out of his hiding spot holding a shotgun. When officers tell him to put his hands up and like drop the shotgun, he refuses and officer open fires and shoots 49 year old Richard Matt three times. He's

dead at the scene. Wow. So I think he did suicide by cop. Yeah. Sounds like it to me. Totally. They don't know where David Sweat is. Police will later learn that the two parted ways days before. So two days later on June 28th, a state trooper is patrolling an area about 15 miles north of where Richard Matt was just killed, and it's a mile from the Canadian border. And the officer sees a man jogging along a road. He recognizes that it's David Sweatt. He approaches in his cop car. David bolts into a field in the direction of nearby

woods. The trooper continues to chase him and eventually opens fire. He shoots sweat twice. Sweat survives, is taken into custody, and he's brought into the hospital in critical condition. Wow. After 22 incredibly tense days, the manhunt for Richard Matt and David Sweatt is finally over. But the wide-reaching consequences of this escape are only just beginning. So for starters, this event leads to an abrupt dissolution of Clinton Correctional's honor block.

It no longer exists. Kind of sucks for people in jail who are just like, I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm not trying to stab other people. Doing my time. It'd be great to walk outside and make a couple phone calls. Like, just lifting the, like, tension. That's just my completely uneducated opinion. So David Sweatt recovers from his gunshot injuries. He's returned to prison.

And as punishment, he's sentenced to six years of solitary confinement. He's forced to spend 23 hours a day in a tiny maximum security cell. In court, correctional officer Gene Palmer admits to passing along contraband to the inmates, although he maintains that he didn't know it would be used in an escape. Okay, but... Yeah. It wasn't cigarettes in that frozen meat. Probably. Right. Regardless, in July 2015, he accepts a plea deal that results in a six-month prison sentence.

Oh. Prison sentence for a prison guard. Yeah. Scary. That can go over well. He is released after serving four months. So then there's Joyce Mitchell. Okay.

The instant David and Richard are discovered missing, one of Joyce's colleagues tips off authorities that she was likely involved somehow. Wow. She did not have friends at this job. I wonder if it was her husband the whole time tipping shit off. Well, I'll tell you something else about Lyle and then we'll figure it out. Okay. So Joyce is interviewed by police on June 6th. After she's just discharged

from her hospital stay for a panic attack, the worst, she's interviewed again the next day. On June 12th, less than a week after the prisoners escaped, Joyce is arraigned on a felony charge for promoting prison contraband and a misdemeanor for criminal facilitation. She's ultimately sentenced to a prison term of up to seven years and she's ordered to pay a restitution of $80,000 to cover the cost of damage to Clinton Correctional by the escapees. Wow. So like basically like this is on you. Yeah. Joyce has expressed deep regret and remorse for her actions. Ugh.

We get it. At her sentencing hearing, she tells the actions. Ugh, that. We get it. At her sentencing hearing, she tells the judge, quote, If I could take it all back, I would. This is by far the worst mistake I've ever made in my life. I live with regret every day and will for the rest of my life. She serves five years and is released from prison in February of 2020. It's kind of heartbreaking, but based on the reporting, it looks like Lyle ultimately forgives Joyce. They're still together.

Wow. At the time of this reporting. Who knows? So all in all, the Clinton correctional escape reveals the cracks in an institution that was believed to be airtight, but that became vulnerable under the influence of human will, whether it was in the form of David and Richard's obsession for freedom or Gene Palmer and Joyce Mitchell's very human desire to be liked. So the critically acclaimed miniseries Escape of Denimora is directed by Ben Stiller. It won a Golden Globe, a SAG Award, and a Critics' Choice TV Award for Patricia Arquette, who

plays Joyce. It was also nominated for seven Emmys. And that is the story of the 2015 Clinton Correctional Facility Prison Break by inmates David Sweat and Richard Mapp. Wow. Wow. Right? I didn't know about that because I didn't watch the series because prison stuff is boring to me.

So I'm so glad you told me that story because that is fucking wild. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy. Amazing. Great job. Thank you. Great solo episode right there. There's a solo that gives you everything you need. Absolutely. Come on. Should we finish off with a listener telling us what they're even doing right now?

Will they listen to My Favorite Murder? Absolutely. Okay. Perhaps a fucking little. Come on. Should we finish off with a listener telling us what they're even doing right now while they listen to My Favorite Murder? Absolutely. Okay. Okay, this one is from Instagram posted by your solo traveler. And it says, what am I even doing right now? I am listening to this episode while walking on a treadmill in the middle of the Nordic Sea.

Hmm. I am a cybersecurity engineer, and you will often find me in the weirdest places with your podcast in my ear." Smiley face. And then they commented on their own comment and said, I must clarify that I am on an oil rig, not lost with my treadmill in the sea, which I appreciate. Wild. That's where we are right now. We're there. The idea of getting stuck on the sea on a treadmill is so heartbreaking. It's kind of like a perfect analogy for life. Like you're running on a treadmill, but you're in the fucking middle of the ocean.

Yeah. You better get skinny for your eventual ocean death. I like the idea that we have somebody on our side that works in cybersecurity. Absolutely. We might need you one day. Yeah, I think we will. This one is from Instagram. The handle is tequila, T-E-E-Q-H-I-L-L-A.

But I'm reading it tequila. What are you even doing right now? I'm laying in a hotel bed after an exhausting week of taking down a Titanic exhibit from a science museum in Ohio. Amid tearing down scenery that recreated the inside of the ship, we were working alongside actual Titanic artifacts recovered from the sea floor. I even helped put one back in its shipping crate. It was the craziest experience. Wow. That's cool.

That's so historical. It really is. I love the idea. It's like, look, we can look at the Titanic up here. We don't have to go down to it. Don't do it. Just come and look at it in like Ohio. Go to fucking Ohio and look at the Titanic. Museums. Calm down.

Yeah. Well. That's it. All right. We've done it. Well, thanks for listening to this solo episode. Yeah. And we'll see you on the next one. That's it. All right. We've done it. Well, thanks for listening to this solo episode. Yeah. And we'll see you on the next one. That's right. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered.

Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Ah! This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck. Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.

Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Ali Elkin. Email your hometowns to MyFavoriteMurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at MyFavoriteMurder and Twitter at MyFaveMurder. Goodbye!