My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 48 - An Albert Fish Production

Episode Date: December 22, 2016

On this week's My Favorite Murder (now with a stick of shitty gum!), Karen and Georgia recount the Starved Rock State Park murders and the mysterious ongoing kidnapping case of Sherri Papini.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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It just feels like it's been a long time. It does. Oh, it has. Has been? Yeah. Are we recording? Yes. It's figured out.

It has been. I guess we, I guess, almost two weeks. Is that right? Since, like, apartment recording. Yeah. Because we did our bell house show last week. Yeah. That was a fun, that was different.

That was nuts. That was nuts. That was a break from reality. It was super fun. We love you, Jamie Lee. Jamie Lee's book's coming out. That's right. Thanks for being on.

Thank you. Ludiculous is coming out. I called it Wettelish. Wettelish, as you did. With the absolute confidence. That's all that matters is when you say stuff like that. Yeah. They should change the title right now.

Well, they might have to. Right. No. And she was talking about, and then I thought it would be funny when she was trying to plug it at the end to interrupt her and be like, we're done. Did she get her feelings hurt? No, no, no, no. Did you hear her?

I said, I didn't blame it on you. Did she get her feelings hurt? No. Did you hurt her feelings? Thank you. No, I apologize to her after where I was like, that really seemed like it was going to be funny to me. And then it didn't, but it, like, you know that thing where it's funny in the moment

and then like 48 hours passed and you're like, this feels bad. And she was like, oh my God, no, it was super funny. But she, the whole reason she was trying to say that is because if people order the pre-order, it can get onto the, possibly get onto the New York Times best sell. I didn't know that. I mean, I'm fucking writing a book. I know. There's a lot involved.

But she's, and she's kind of an expert on stuff like that. So she's worked really hard. I mean, she's been working on this book for a really long time since I've known her. Longer than since she got engaged. Yeah. I mean, since high school. Is that weird? No, that was a really fun show.

The last podcast on the left dudes were awesome. And we didn't, I don't think we, did we talk about it on the show that we went and recorded their show that day? No, there's like a bonus episode at log, fuck, at last podcast on the left's like page, my tunes page or whatever that is us just like a fucking half hour conversation with them. Yeah. Someone got mad at us because we said we weren't interested in UFOs.

Oh, but I have a very good reason for not being interested in UFOs because they scared the fucking shit out of me. I just don't feel, it's like with ghosts. It's like, why are we talking about this? Yes, they probably exist, but we're, there's no proof. Um, true. Although it's, don't make me retell you my ghost story because there is proof. I haven't.

A ghost hugged me. UFO scary? Yeah. The idea of UFOs being real is like having a psychotic break where like suddenly what you know is no longer the truth and there's a whole new truth. And the idea of that is very upsetting to me and like, it's that thing where when it happens in a UFO movie where suddenly there's the thing hanging over the city or whatever. Yeah.

Like in district nine where it's just like, I just don't want to go there. Like it, life is hard enough. You know what I think I've always loved is the fact that our brains can't literally can't compute certain things. So if it's outside of our reality, so much of like a fucking alien in the sky or a fucking ghost standing before us or some insane thing happening, our brain will just be like, nope. Yeah. And just fucking shut it off and you won't even see this thing happening.

You think that's true? I think that's true. Yeah. Do I have to remind you for a third time I was hugged by a guest. That's a feeling though. I had a full denial about my ghost experience, which was real to ghosts. Like as a kid, I saw things happen, but I still am like, well, my brain is weird that I did that.

Oh, I see. So you're basically like you shut it down emotionally. Like we're not going to go into the freak out of that. Is that what you mean? Yeah, probably. Probably. Yeah. Like the same thing with thinking about this podcast.

And people are listening. It's happening. I'm just like, no. No. I can't. We're just here. Every time someone's like, everything's going great. And I'm like, I don't know.

I just go, it's super weird. And then I change a subject immediately. The thing that is now becoming like the funny thing that listeners are writing is we didn't know this was going to be a thing. Yeah. They're with us completely. They understand. They didn't either.

Clearly. They were like, yeah, I was here when it was just 5,000 of us. We didn't think this was going to be a thing at all. We thought we were weirdos too, including you. Hi, this is my favorite murder. This podcast starring George Hart Stark and Karen Kilgarov. Our sound technician is a man named Steven, Steven Ray Morris. And his mustache.

And this is day 403 of Steven's mustache. We've been counting. He's doing it. He's going to grow it all the way around his mouth, I think. That's my personal. I thought you were going to say his head. That would be funny, but just tie it in the back. Oh my God.

Why is that not a thing? Mustache fucking. Sounds like a nightmare. Yeah. You have to do it now, Steven. You have to. Only for you, Karen. Steven.

Speaking of only for us, Steven brought us. Okay, Steven is like, does everything for us? Does everything. He's so fucking sweet and wonderful. And also thinks about things like much more than we do. Because we don't know. Because we didn't know this was going to be a thing. Right.

So, but he did. He did. And he like was prepared for it. He prints things out for us and plans. But also he brings us presents. Christmas holiday presents. We have a non-denominational holiday presents at our each seat and on the couch.

I know. So we decided we're going to open them on the air with you guys. I know what this is going to be. Oh my God, Steven. It sounds amazing. Oh my God. Is this fuck? I fucking knew it.

He got us serial killer baseball cards. Holy shit, Steven. True crime, G-Men, mass murders, serial killers and gangsters. And they're like, they're like baseball card packets. Oh, you guys. Steven, I'm going to fucking have a seizure right now. This is really good. Are these like old?

Yeah, like these are like hard to find. Yeah, they're from like the 90s. Fucking fuck, Steven. I'm like, I see people posties on the fucking Facebook page and like, I've had these since the 90s and everyone's like, fuck you. And you got like five packs of them for both of them. This is really good.

But I like them. Is there gum in there? I wouldn't eat it if there was. I'm going to and then I'll sue you if anything happens. Now there's a secondary gift. There's another bigger one. Because he's a classy man that gives you a small gift with this bigger gift underneath it.

Oh my God. Oh my God. What is it? It's his memoir of what assholes we are. What did you get? Let's see. It's the book. It's a vintage book.

Oh my God. This is the book of Vicki Morgan and Alfred Bloomingdale in the affair that shook the highest levels of government in society. Oh my God. This is the British one, right? It was the woman in Washington, D.C. D.C.?

Where she was the dominatrix and there was sex scandals. The cover of that book is fucking. I want that on his shirt. Wait, when is this written in the 80s? This one is by Larry Connor. It's called Cults That Killed Proving the Underworld of a Cold Cry? Yes. Steven, it's like you know us.

I thought for a second I thought this book was about somebody that was in the Bengals. It totally is. Because that's totally the color palette. This was written in 1988. I'm so fucking. Like at the height of the Satanic Panic. This is so good, Steven.

I call it the Satanic Panic. Steven, we got you a bottle of single malt scotch. We got you this old wrapping paper. Oh my God, Steven. I'm sweating because I'm so happy. That's really good. I can't wait to open these. I don't think I should open these.

You give and you give. Thank you, Steven. You should open one of the packs. Good idea. I'm doing it. Let's do it. Good idea. Oh my God.

Also, when we talked about the plan was that we were going to open these on the air. And Steven, would you say it would be good for? Oh, ASMR. Oh yeah. Okay. Oh my God. Oh my God.

What'd you get? What'd you get? Read a couple. I got the Hall Mills case, which on September 16th, 1922, a couple walking down a country lane near New Brunswick, New Jersey, found two bodies lying under a crab apple tree. It was Reverend Edward Hall, 41, and Mrs. Eleanor Mills, 32, a member of his church choir. He had both had been shot. Her throat had been cut.

I've heard this story. We're only picking our murders from these decks from now on. Oh my God. Shuffle them up. Shuffle. This week it's. It's where they're only from the 90s and before. Our work has been done.

Okay, mine. I have one. Clifford Olson, who looks like a real fucking piece of work. Look at him. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Okay. That's a dramatic painting. Let's see here.

So November 1980, a 12-year-old British Columbia girl disappeared. Her mutilated body was found a month later. In 81, a 13-year-old girl vanished, followed by a 16-year-old boy a week later. The boy was found dead. His skull crushed. In May, a 16-year-old girl disappeared. And then in June, a 13-year-old girl. And then in July, Jesus, I'm doing him for my next number, murder.

No spoilers. No. Yeah. All spoilers. Are you reading till the end? Fuck. That's good. Stephen, I'm.

These are amazing cases. That I will treasure forever than ever. And we're going to start trading them? I've never heard of half of these people. Jack the stripper. I'm not kidding. Yeah. What'd he do?

Jack the stripper. In 59A, I'm going to rephrase this. Go ahead. A sex worker. Nice. Was strangled and clad only in her slip was found near their Thames. Thames? Thames?

Thames? Oh, shit. It's one of those ones. The only reason I know it. It's not. But I should, I've been to. And I should fucking know. Thames?

She was found. That shit happened. Look, Sonny Bean. Remember, I did that one. Oh my God. This is the, I am honestly like glowing right now. This is best Christmas ever, Stephen. This is the best Hanukkah ever, Stephen.

Richard Cottingham. Wait a second. I'm Jewish? I'm on. What? What? Richard Cottingham is the one I just did on the last episode. You just did him.

And then he walks through the door. Shit. You got out of jail already. Oh my God, you did. I'm going to open all of these. This painting makes him look way better than he actually looks in real life. What if we have a whole, okay. What if the next, the mini-soat is just us opening these and reading them to each other?

That's a great idea. Let's absolutely do that for real. Because these are amazing cases. Dude, it's happening. And also look at how hot this guy is. Who's that? That's his story. I don't know.

He's kind of like Mick Jaggery, but younger. Tune in to the next Minnesota. Yeah. Holy shit. That's exciting. Oh my God. That's so sad. You're a fucking angel.

What's even what? Oh, I was going to say they were very controversial at the time because they were like, people were obsessed with them. I remember. I remember they had those playing cards of cold cases that they would give to inmates. Oh yeah. In prison so that they would like be playing with these cards and they'd be like, fuck man.

And then like read about the victim and be like, this fucking dude I was in prison with has admitted to this. And like there, I think there are not a lot, but a couple of cases that got solved because of that. That's a brilliant idea. Yeah. I do remember though, when these came out, it was like, how dare you was the kind of overall, it was like so sick with like similar podcast.

We are the how dare you podcast of today, but for different reasons where the, and our podcast comes with a stick of shitty gum. That's right. Our podcast listening to it is the same thing as eating old powdery pink, flaky hard to chew a baseball card gum. Remember when you would just like eat it out of not spite, but just like, I bought this yeah. It's the thing I pick.

Yeah. Vince buys the wrestling ones a lot, like the old school wrestling ones too. And yeah, I think he burns the gum burns it and smokes it. What if he just was like addicted to vintage gum, the fumes of vintage gum. That sounds like the new like what, like what parents get told, like they're the junior high kids are into now. You see old gum in your kids room on the next 2020, they're smoking it. I would just like to say really quick that at that show, we had so many great people.

It was crazy. And we got to say hi to so many awesome listeners, which was really fun. It is. And you got to talk to the doorman at the end, which they loved your story. Well, I don't know if he loved it as much as it was like, let me give you some more information just on behalf of all dormant. Yeah. So my story last week was about in New York, the doorman at the spar killed this girl.

Spoiler alert. If you haven't listened. And so the door on the way out, the doorman who had met before at the show, he was really nice and cool was like, Hey, and like called me over and I was like, fuck, like, oh, he's gonna be like, that was my brother's like something. But instead he was like, I remember when that happened. Yeah, I didn't know the guy, but, you know, I was, I was a doorman at the time and it really fucked with a lot of us because it changed a lot of rules and, you know, blah,

blah, blah. And I was like, I'm so sorry. I doorman. He was like, we don't, we don't call ourselves bouncers. We call ourselves doorman. And I was just like, I fucking trust you guys. And like that's what it was very like, sorry, but he was very cool. That's funny.

Cause when I walked up, it seemed like you guys were besties. Oh no. Cause he was so kind and sweet. Oh good. We have to give them. Yes. They, they stayed late to like let us talk to all the people who stuck around and they were really cool at like moving the line along.

They didn't have to do that. They were whole staff was amazing. The whole staff was great. Thank you, Andrew for booking us. This was our little, our own booking long ago where we thought, um, this would be fun. And it really, we were right. Um, I would just like to say, uh, my friend, thanks to my friend Carrie who came to see me and he literally yelled, Hey, over, uh, like five people and then walked away because

he didn't want to have to wait in line. Um, Oh, I met him. He was nice. Yes. And same with my friend, Colin, who apparently just sent me a message saying, yeah, I wasn't going to wait around. And then my friend, David Knowles, who you did meet who I've known since we were 12 years

old. We met in sixth grade. I went to the freshman winter formal with him. He waited in line and he was the second to last person in line. And when the like third to last person walked away, I go, the fuck are you doing? I'm going to see you after. It was like, he waited. He probably thought everyone knew you.

Yes. Like these are parents friends. We're trying to say hi in an organized way. It was so nice. We again got a lot of fucking amazing presents. I got some of, I just keep getting the best cat toys ever. Yeah. Like that's the whole, right?

That's my scheme for this podcast is to get free cat toys. We got a cat toys and, um, what was in that other bag in the bigger bag makeup? Yes. Oh, that makeup. Um, I also want to, so we need to, if you go to our Instagram, it's my favorite murder. I post a lot of like the photos and stuff of what people gave us and shoutouts and shit. One thing we got that I just need to fucking, I got in the mail and started opening it and

I was like, can't open this. I'm going to cry without Karen. So this person, this, this girl named, um, Molly has this website called the urban Smith dot com. And she makes this like incredible jewelry and metalworking and like these gorgeous things. And she made us these necklaces that are so beautiful and delicate that they stay sexy on them. Yeah.

They're so beautiful. And then she made me these two little charms that look like if, um, Elvis or Mimi ever let me in my fucking life, put a color on them without murdering me. That would you put these on it and it's just these little beautiful, um, monogram things that say Elvis and Mimi that I'm going to wear as a neck like they're so beautiful. Yeah. They're really nice. So the urban Smith.

I just wanted to give a shout out to whoever gave us the color pop, lippy stick, color pop brand. We got eyeshadow and we got lipstick, but this lippy sticks, color pop, lippy sticks in the color poison. I think they wrote and said, I hope this is a color that you can use cause I've talked so much about. She knows you. Lipstick.

It's, it's so perfect cause it's a really good color, but it also stays on. It's like a stain. God bless America. You know, and we're not, and we don't. So yeah, don't worry about it. Yeah. And so we always will. Um, on my favorite murder Facebook page, there were two meetups that I got to look

at this morning, one Portland, Oregon, one from Austin and they were so cute. And the thing that kills me is how much crafting people put in. They do. I mean, is that the one that did the serial killer drawings? Um, that was, I'm going to have to look which one did the drawing. That's not it. I have it on the paper. That's all right.

Um, I wrote it on this piece of paper right here. Portland did the drawing. Oh, Portland. They did like coloring book pages of serial killers. I love it. And on the Austin meetup, um, they had all kinds of crafts, but my favorite was they had name tags that said my, my favorite murder is, and then they wrote who their favorite murderer is on the bottom.

So one lady is like smiling, but it just says Albert fish. I love the idea that he's your favorite. That's such a great idea. Cause then you come up to someone and be like, Oh my God, I know a lot about that one too. And then you guys talk about it. Like, and then it's not awkward. Like parties. That's the whole point.

Dude. Everyone's doing it. Dude. Guys. And then our Twitter mentioning this and in next year, don't look at my fucking murder. I held up my papers and then you saw my girl. I need you to know that I am so blind. You could have been holding up one large capital A and I would have been like, is it a building?

I was looking because it, all those black lines that look like it's redacted. I know. No, it's not. I couldn't, I couldn't figure out my, I bought a new computer and I couldn't figure out how to format shit on my fucking page. So that's like old highlighting or something. Yeah. So it's like, it's like the outer color is black and then, you know, I got you.

So in 2017, Amazon is going to be posting with updates, the old unsolved mysteries. Oh, that's right. Dude. Oh my God. The last time I saw one of those was a while ago when I was high. It was a while ago because I didn't get high anymore, but there was, the reenactments are so gorgeous. I remember very distinctly, and this is like in 2002 when I saw this, one of the reenactments,

one of the episodes was about like ghosts and the way they showed that there was a ghost haunting this house is that in the kitchen, this fucking loaf of bread started levitating. Oh yeah. And you could see the strings holding up a loaf of bread and it was doing this like, it was so stupid. Yes. So I'm really excited about it. It's going to be so good.

Like what have we been doing without it in our lives? I mean, because what's, are they going to update it? I think they're at the end when I love this, going to say like update from 2016. Oh, because that's like the magic of the whole, it's almost like the blooper reel at the end of a good movie, the updates at the end of Unsolved Mysteries are the most satisfying thing in the world. It's the same thing with the show Intervention where they're like, it's like this beautiful ending of like, and I just feel so centered now.

And then it's like, she fucking relapsed. She totally disappeared into the bottom of the ditch. Disappeared and she's now living at home again. You're like, oh man. But she's sober. But she's on the couch. Which is for, no, please get sober and please get sober. I don't know.

None of our business. As I take a big ol' gulp of wine. I think that's all of our business. Oh, I'm live show shit. There's some drama going on. We're not going to talk about it. We're going to say that. We have no control over tickets.

None control. Or shows. Or scouting. Or places. I mean, we're really excited. They know that. We're going to, there's going to be more, if we're not going to your city, it's because we're saving it.

We're saving the best for last. That's right. It's because we don't choose where to go. That's right. I'm not going to say the one state I refuse to go to. I wouldn't. I'm not going to. Please don't.

Okay, great. You'll know when we've gone to 50. 50? 50s. How many are there? Are there 52? No, that's cards in a deck. That's cards in a murder deck.

Let's go back to the cards. Oh, my favorite murder dot com slash live is just how you see the places we're going in. Yeah. Check on their links. It'll give you pre-sale codes. Totally. All that business.

And thanks to Kelly for doing that for us. Kelly Dwyer, amazing photographer, great fucking mother of baby, maybe, baby, maybe. Oh my God. Maybe, baby, bear. And Matt Dwyer, well, hilarious comedian. I found him last night. Does he have a podcast? Sorry.

Yes. Sorry. He has one called Afterbirth. Yeah. No. That's so gross. It's Afterbirth. And he was like a fucking big timey comic with all the big timies in Chicago way back

when and did a bunch of shit with him. So he has a lot of those people on the podcast talking about what it's like to have a kid. That's great. And he's so funny. So it's Afterbirth. It's on Ferrell. He's hilarious. He's so funny.

We're assholes. Okay. No, we're not. We just fucking, sorry, Matt. Matt's such a dick to me. Yeah. Matt's a dick. He's such a dick, though.

We're not even. No, it's his fault. Oh, March Corner, my favorite, MurderShirts.com. Go ahead. Go ahead. What do you want to talk about? I guess, I think I just had an idea. Let's hear it.

What about merch of baseball hats with just... Baseball hats. With just a single face of a murderer on it? Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, Hello Fresh has you covered. Hello Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. Hello Fresh meals are convenient, seasonal, and delicious.

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Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my new podcast Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths, and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton Serial Killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to

work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia, and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast, Killer Psyche Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Like the drawing or like a fucking sketch? I think it would have to be a drawing. Drawing.

Don't nobody steal this. I swear to fucking God, if I see this, I'm fucking Etsy. I don't come to your house. This means we have tonight, Sunday, we have till Thursday to fucking make this goddamn happen. Stephen, mute it. Stephen. Cat's all in.

Get on this, please. Wouldn't you wear it just like... Faceball has a great idea. Because, right? A black hat and then just Albert Fish's face on it. What if it was? That's what I'm talking about. Oh my God.

What if it was one of those beanies that you pull over your face and it has the eye in the mouth? Oh my God. Those are called balaclavas. And it just said my favorite murder is and you just pull it and it's just like a thing that says Albert Fish. This is an intellectual copyright property, we own this and we can prove it in a court of law.

Don't you steal the balaclava idea. We will come. What's it called? Balaclava. The thing that you pull over that bank robbers use. I didn't know that's what it was called. We will come to every 50 fucking states and fucking track you down. Except for the one.

Except for the one that I refuse to go to. It's mean. Just kidding. It's not. It's not. It's not. No way, man. I actually love Maine and I've wanted to go there since I was a kid because I used to

read these books called Meg. I think it was called Meg of Maine and it was going. I think that was what it was called. I would go to fucking Maine so hard. Yeah. Let's just add a weird tour. Let's have a weird tour called which is like we do what we want. Yeah.

We do what we want. There's none enough people to fill whatever fucking bag. No one's interested. Nobody cares. They don't fucking like you. They're just trying to make a fucking living. We're going to go to Maine. We're going to go to a night in New York.

We're going to go to Montreal where they don't like anything. We're going to go to down to. Irvine, California, which is the worst thing that ever happened in my fucking life. Yeah. It wouldn't be amazing to go to Irvine and not sell any tickets. Oh my God. Amazing. Just be like, it's just all, you know, every girl who made fun of me in elementary school

gets in for free. Yeah. And they just talk to the whole thing. They text and talk to each other. That'd be, God, this is turning into like an Albert Brooks movie. We had Albert Fish movie. Oh my, an Albert Fish productions. That's the best name for a production company.

And it's just a cartoon of him with all those pins inside of him. Oh my God. He's so gross. All right. Do we have to do the murder part? This is so fun. There are those who say we do have to do it. Last time you went first, you pointed at me and then moved your fingers.

Because I was just kind of ready to go with whatever you said. I do love that in the live episode. At the venue, we were like, how to ask the audience who went first last time and a bunch of people like George, like they knew. I know. It's so sweet. It's because they know we don't know anything. That was so fun.

That was so fun. They're also fucking, I can't, I'm going to cry. This is the best. This is another thing of, I can't deal with this being a thing. It's fun. What would you say? I would say this. A lot of, there were a couple of people who tweeted about how mean I was to the girl who

I yelled at because she said she couldn't see and asked for Patsy to be put down. But she was, what you couldn't see was that I was making faces at her after I yelled at her that made it funny. But then also she was in line after the show and she walked up and said, I'm the one you yelled at. And I go, I'm sorry. And she goes, I loved it. Yeah.

And then she put an Instagram up of that. If you go to our Instagram and then you, there's a hashtag of my favorite murder and there's like a bunch of life photos and she writes when one of them like, she told me to shut up. And it's just like, she's so sweet and just like, I mean, she had a moment with you. That's right. Also that's the kind of moment you get to have with me pretty much like that and nothing else.

It's like, don't, don't need or want more. I can't give you anything. And the craziest thing to me is someone who wasn't there said, at one hour and 15 minutes in, did I hear a guy, Brennan, laugh? We got like seven of those. That's, that's amazing. And then you did because there's people who are Guy Branham, who is our friend and he's also a co-host of Pop Rocket, which is a very popular podcast, but also he's a well-known

comedian and he has the most distinctive laugh that makes you want to start laughing. It's amazing. He's so nice. Like this is, this is how low it is in LA, but he remembered my name when he met after he met me and Vince is the same way too, where it's like, he didn't have to remember our name. Like that's how low it is where it's like, you remembered my name and he's so nice. You're just looking for some decency.

Yeah. Yeah. He, he read how to do things with friends and then remember them. He wrote, he read that book. Yeah. All right. I just coughed and burped at the same time, but I just want to say, I want to just delay this one more minute.

Class A. Because I have defiance disorder. Is that a thing? Yeah. I have it too. Yeah. I don't know what it is. It's just that you can't do it.

People want you to do it. You can have that. Yeah. It makes sense with both of us. It does. I'm learning a lot from you though. I have it very bad. I'm learning that it's okay from you.

It is. I mean, it's fine because everybody has something. I once had a fucking soccer coach when I was like in junior high, hold his fists up to my face and say, you need to stop fucking being defiant. And I was like, fuck you. Did you walk away? Yeah. The hell?

Yeah. Girl, that's right. He's probably a fucking child killer. I was just going to say, that's the show I'm working on right now is Guy Branham's show. Yeah. That's the, sorry. Yeah.

It just makes, I don't have to be secret about it because I'm happy that Guy Branham gets to have a show and it's going to be on TruTV in like probably Spring called Talk Show the Game Show. It's going to be awesome. Talk Show the Game. That reminds me of from Bojack Horseman of what was it like, celebrities. Do they know anything? What do they know?

Let's find out. That's, Guy Branham deserves a show so much. So much. That guy is, he's a fucking lawyer. Literally. What? I don't agree. Shut the fuck up.

Yeah. Yeah. He's smarter than everybody. Jesus. Yeah. National fucking treasure. And murder time. Okay.

So remember we were talking about national parks and how everyone gets murdered in them constantly and it's like, what the fuck? I have one for you today that I'd never heard about and then I, you know, okay, they looked it up. Okay. Here's the name of the fucking state park. It's called Starved Rock State Park. So immediately you're like, oh shit.

Can I guess where it is? Yeah. Illinois. Yeah. It's not, but you know, they're probably real close to each other. Thank you. They're probably close. Did you see the meme someone made of, it's just a, it's a photo of what, of like Wyoming

and it says over the top, and whatever state is next to Wyoming, that's what you said. Yep. I can't pretend. I cannot pretend to know. Listen, we're so smart in certain things. Oh, and so dumb in most things. And yet defiant as fuck. So that's why, fuck you.

That's why we're still not starting with murder, murder TV. God damn it. Okay. Starved Rock State Park. It's a state park. It's a hundred miles outside of Chicago. The reason it's named this, okay. So it's a rock fortress on the Illinois River, a band of, and I'm going to say this wrong

and sound like such a fucking asshole, uh, Illiniwik Indians live there originally in the 17th. In the 17th century, they're besieged by a bunch of fucking assholes. They like kind of lock them in. And so the people who didn't die by trying to escape the Indians were died from starving. So fuck. Yeah, dude. Okay.

Yeah. So do you mind? Will you show me the name? Do you mind if I see it? Oh yeah. Here, go ahead. Oh yeah. I bet that's some, I bet that's right.

Illiniwik. Illiniwik. Illiniwik. Illiniwik. Indians. Or Illiniwik. Yeah. I have no idea.

I'm just giving options. No, you're probably right. This is from on our Drunk History, my Anali's Drunk History episode and we did on Lewis and Clark because she called them indreans. So anything I can, anything I can do is better than that. That's right. You know. And someone got a tattoo that just says indreans.

That's so funny. People are crazy. Okay. So on March 14th, 1960, these three suburban housewives who are from, um, a little bit outside of this area, they're in Riverside, three suburban housewives go to, uh, Star Rock State Park for a long weekend. They're all just like, let's get the fuck out of here. One of the women had like, um, convalescerate husband through a heart attack.

They need to get the fuck out of town. They wanted to go, um, and enjoy the area's hiking trails. It's apparently gorgeous. Um, they're staying at the Star Rock Lodge. Excuse me. I burped. So this is a Lillian Edding, Mildred Lindquist. They're both 50 and Francis Murphy, who's 47, the young one.

They, their wives of business executives, their mothers have grown children and they're prominent in their town for civic involvement, um, and their friends through the Riverside Presbyterian church. So they're good fucking women, you know, they're like, we deserve, like this is, this is their, um, what's it called when they, um, yeah. Girls weekend? Yes. I just had that feeling, um, right as you finish that last sentence, they're all going

to die. Well, yeah, it was the, and you know what that feeling feels like to me when I remember what we're doing. It feels like when the dentist puts the lead blanket over you, when you get your x-rays taken. So then it's just like, oh yeah. And you're like, this lead thing isn't going to do anything to it's like that lead thing where they're like, this is probably, it's going to maybe, yeah, but anyway, yeah, that's

it. This is the lead blanket of sadness. They check into the lodge, they put their luggage in their rooms and then they have lunch at the lodge is like beautiful restaurant. And then they're like, we're going to go for a hike, like post lunch hike. Okay. Well, that evening, Lillian's husband, uh, is supposed to hear from his wife. And so he doesn't.

He calls the staff and the staff is like, oh no, we saw them, but they're not in the room right now. They'll call you tomorrow. The next day he calls again and the staff again says like, oh no, you know, we saw them at lunch and they're here. They're just probably out. And then the next day there's a snow, a crazy fucking snowstorm. And so this dude, Lillian's husband named George is like, go into my fucking wife's room and

see as she's there. They check the rooms, their luggage is all packed, their car is still in the same place. Like they clearly hadn't been there in two days. So George calls law enforcement and volunteers come out and they start a search party. And at the time this local newspaper reporter hears about it. He fucking skedaddles over there and he drives into the park and he comes across some kids near a ravine who are shouting. And it turns out this like local camp had been hiking and these like teenage boys found

bodies on one of the nearby trails, which is like, dude, you poor kids. So what's what's found in the fucking newspaper guy goes up there, scoop of the fucking century. And it was called the crime of the century for a while. He finds the mutilated bodies of Lillian, Mildred and Francis. They're laying side by side, partially covered with snow. They're on their backs under the ledge of a small cave and their lower clothing had been torn away and their legs were spread apart, which we know is a fucking sadistic as fuck way to leave someone.

They had all been beaten viciously in their, on their heads and two were tied together with heavy twine. They are covered in blood and their legs were blackened with bruises. Poor fucking things. So because this had happened two days earlier and then there was a snowstorm, there were several inches of snow covering the whole area, which means all this fucking evidence they could have had was lost. But they did some digging and they found a ton of blood beneath the snow and they found

a frozen tree limb that was streaked with blood. And they thought that was the murder weapon. And then also a trail of blood led from a different area into the where the women's body were found. So they thought that the bodies have been dragged and positioned under this ledge. The coroner said the women had obviously been, obviously been quote molested, but they couldn't they couldn't find any evidence of rape because it had been so long and it had been snowing. Let's see.

And it seems at the time of death was pretty shortly after they had left the lodge after lunch. And there was no motive for the murders because the women had left all their money and jewelry in their room and so maybe the killer got mad when he found out that there was nothing on them. But the strap to the camera, they brought a camera and binoculars and the strap to the camera was broken and there was photos of them like sightseeing on the camera, which you can see online.

Oh, so the strap was broken, but the camera is still there. Yes. So it wasn't robbery. No. Yeah. Or maybe it was attempted and the women fought back something. So there were no suspects for eight months. And so the county state attorney, whose name was Harold, no, Harland Warren, Harland, that's

a fucking amazing name, uses his own money and purchases a microscope and begins like doing this crazy study of all the evidence. Sorry, I missed what year this was. Oh, 1960. Oh, okay. He buys his own microscope. And also everyone's name is something that's old fashioned. Okay.

Yeah. It's like these are all older people in 1960. So you know, they're all like, you know, from the 30s or whatever. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. So he buys his own microscope. He begins studying the evidence and he's like the twine is going to fucking tell me

something. Where is this twine from? And he finds that there's two kinds of twine, a 20-ply cord and a 12-ply cord. And he starts at the first place he can think of, which is at the lodge and he brings him to the manager, the cord, and he's like, does this look familiar to you? And it turns out the manager is like, I think those were from the restaurant. And they go back into the fucking area where the food is kept in the fucking pantry. And there's the fucking twine.

Same fucking twine. So they don't have to go far to find who overdid this. They do not. So they had originally, Warren had originally thought that the killer either worked at or had access to the lodge, but all the lodge employees have been given polygraph tests and they all passed, but he calls them back for another round of testing. And that is when a former dishwasher named Chester Otto Wager was brought in. Like that name combination?

No. Because he has a middle name. Well, yeah. They always name the middle name. Chester. But Chester's not a good name. Wager. W-E-G-E-R.

Wager. Chester Wager. You don't name your child in a name that has the same two letters at the end on both names. Is that a twig or oh, is that a thing? It's my personal thing. I see that. No, I get that.

I'd never thought about that. So he's a former park employee and he had quit recently like over the summer to go paint houses with his father. But while he was working there, he served meals to the police and reporters while they were like looking up for evidence and shit. So they give him a lie detector test and the tester who's like this really, they brought in like a really good tester. They said his face turned white after, during the testing, Chester walks away and the tester

said that's your man. Ooh. Yeah. So Wager is 21. He's a small man. He has a wife and two young children. He had resigned that summer and Lodge employees reported seeing scratches on his face, but he had passed several lie detector tests already.

I mean, because ultimately we know that lie detector tests, right, they're 50, 50, right. They're only right half the time. Yeah. Now we know this. And there's a reason they're inadmissible in court is because they're, they're not, they they're based on your heart rate. And if you are like a sociopath or something, you won't have a reaction to, you won't be nervous to tell a lie.

You won't care. And if you truly believe what you thought you saw. So like, if it's a witness who's like, I fucking saw a man in a red jacket. I know I did. And if they believe that they're going to not have been being deceitful, right? Even if it's not true. They won't have the physical reaction. Yeah. I think someday that I think someday witness testimony is going to be just like lie detector

test where it's like, this isn't admissible because everyone's a little bit. Wrong. Reliable. Yeah. We're all a little wrong. I think that's actually a good thing to remember. Yeah. Because I always think I remember things always and I'm positive, positive.

And then, and then I'm wrong. Well, it's the same thing of like, how people say like, there's three sides to every story. Your side, their side and the truth. And it's like, you know, the argument that you and I got into sounds this way from me and sounds that way from you. And you have to be like, well, somewhere in the middle is really what happened. And you can't, you have to know that you don't know. Yeah.

The other person's, this is a psychology podcast. It's true though. We're so smart. I know. Like, how do we even? What about states about feelings? Pardon me. I just thought it would be perfect.

I was going to make that one quiet, but I figured, I'm putting my jacket back. You're cold. Man. It's so loud. I know. This is not good. This is not good for audience. Steven?

Have a blanket. There's a blanket right there. I barely peed on it. I peed on it once. Please. Are you cold? Yes. Karen, behind you is a thermostat.

Please turn that heat on right there. But. The thing that looks like a fire hazard from the 1950s? Yeah. Click that little thing up. This is worth it. Kaboom. Click that up.

No, no, no. The left. The little switch. Yeah. Up. There we go. Did you see the fire and the wall right there? It's, I need to move.

This is an old. Serious. This is serious. The night, my favorite murder got lit on fire. All right. Okay. Okay. So they're like, it's totally him.

And then he was like, hey, I have, I just happen to have this buckskin jacket. And I want to admit that it's covered in quote dark stains and it later turned out to be human blood on this jacket. I don't know. He was just bringing this up. Yeah. I don't know if that's totally, you know, what, how it happened, but somehow they found a buckskin jacket that was covered in dark stains that happened to be human blood.

But in 1960, it could not be typed or matched to a specific victim, which is like, come on, you guys get it to fucking gather. They're like, we can't. It's only 1960. It's just blood stains at this point. We just want to go to the moon. That's all we care about. They're going to say movies, which is actually similar or parents failed us.

So he does further polygraph tests again. He's fucked and he fails them all. So they investigators being checking into similar cases in the area and they come across a reported rape and robbery that had taken place a mile from Starved Rock in 1959, the year before a 17 year old girl had been sexually assaulted and she had been bound with twine similarly to the Starved Rock women. Okay. And then I, you know, in all my like a weird digging of like old articles and shit, the

one place I found in one place, this information, the attack had been reported by two teenagers a boy and a girl. The boy said they had been robbed while the girl was sexually assaulted. They told the cops about it and the officers didn't believe their story and they sent the couple away with a cursory investigation saying that they thought the story was made up. That they were robbed? That they were robbed and she was fucking sexually assaulted. They were like, you little lying 17 year olds, get the fuck out of here.

You know what I mean? Like, why would you fucking make that up? Let's get attention. Yeah. I mean, that's what, that's what they used to say stuff like that back then, right? Yeah. So maybe they had paid, should have paid attention to that. Anyways, so the victim, the female victim has brought a stack of mug shots.

She's sorting through them and when she sees the photo of Chester, she starts to scream, which is so chilling. Yeah. So they get a arrest warrant for him on the rape because they can't prove the murders yet. So they get him off the streets and then they have him in custody. They start questioning him about the rape and then they press him about the murders and they keep him in the interrogation room for hours at 2am.

He finally asked to see his family and then he confesses. So before that, he's like really quick though, again, I have a buckskin jacket. I just wanted you guys to know. It's the blood from the buck. That was fucking killed for this jacket. I'm just going to bring this up real quick because I want, it's pretty cool jacket. Yeah. Like I just want you guys to like admire my jacket.

Okay. Anyway, I'll go back to my confession. So he confesses, he says that he got scared. He tried to grab the women's pocket books and they fought him and he hit them and the pocket book turned out to be the camera that was around her neck. He thought it was like a pocket book. So he gives them that interesting detail. Then he says, they were like, why did you drag the women into this ledge, into this

like cave? And he says it's because he had spotted a small airplane flying low over the park and he was afraid it was a state police plane. So he moved the bodies so that they could not be seen and he had said it was a red and white plane. So a few days later, the cops and the detectives go to the airplane base and look at the log books and there's a fucking plane flying over that fucking park at the exact moment that was red and white.

Whoa. So that's some shit that only he could have known. Yes. Right? And he told on himself. He fucking, he confessed. Yeah. He confessed.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. But then right after his first meeting with his court appointed attorney, he changes the story and says that he was innocent of all charges that the investigators had coerced him into confessing and that they fucking held a gun to his head and made him sign every single one of the papers. I mean, I can see that too.

I mean, back then he said, I know he was so scared that he signed the papers away saying they had fed him the information about the airplane and he wasn't even in the park at the time of the killings. He later said, the police at the park saw me every day and I passed every test they gave me, but the months went by and they wanted a conviction. So they beat me into signing it. I wasn't even, I wasn't ever at the park when it happened. I was done wrong.

Except for when you raped that girl that time, Chester. Yeah. Okay. But yeah. Yes. However. Okay. So he's watched a trial in 1961.

They seek the death penalty a year later. They, the jury finds him guilty for one of the murders they only tried him for, which is weird. Um, maybe they thought they couldn't get him on all three. Well, it's all the same evidence, you know what I mean? And then they ended up like not bringing him up on charges for the rape too. So like this poor girl who was like, you first thought I was fucking lying and now you're not even going to fucking try him for this shit.

Wow. Poor fucking girl. But, but if he goes down for those, at least something on the other ones, then he's in jail forever. Maybe they, they're, they had to, yeah, okay, but here's the problem with that. So, um, he sentenced to a term of life in prison and then the jurors get dismissed and the, and the reporters asked them if they knew that a life sentence in Illinois meant that Wager would be eligible for parole in a few years.

And it turns out that the mint, the like the, the normal life sentence for murder in Illinois was 10 years at the time. What? Yeah. I don't know if it still is. It might still be. No. I mean, what the fuck?

They were like, we would have fucking sent him away. Wait, that's like saying everyone that's going to jail is 70 or something. That doesn't make any sense. Well, you know, life, life sentence is the hardest quotes that have ever been quoted. Life sentence is such bullshit. It makes you feel and think a certain thing. It's not fucking true. Seven fucking years.

It's like you're eligible for parole immediately and you just keep fucking, it's, it's not a thing. A life sentence is not a thing. A life sentence is not a thing. You are foolish. I am not. Life sentence is like, is, is a, is a, um, wait, wait, can I just remind you that lawyers listen to this?

Okay. All right. I just, would you want me to text guy right now? Text guy. Okay. The, the, the idea of a life sentence, wait, this is my favorite. We're going, we're going, we're going outside the podcast. It's like a, we're, we're doing an outside line.

A life. I want to call a friend. A lawyer. I'm doing it. A life sentence means life sentence, but in actuality in a majority of states, it really just is, it's a sentence, but it's not an actual, um, what's the word? It's not going to give you 50 to 75 years like, like it would take up a person's life. Exactly.

You're not actually going to be in prison for your life. All right. Both of you on your phones now, I just want to point out, I mean, no, I'm just texting it. I'm texting the outside line. Can I ask you a question? So we're just going to see if guys even available. Stephen, what did you find?

I found that it was much more complicated than I thought it was. What does it say? I thought life imprisonment was life and, no, the first thing was on a message board. It just said, that's a really good question. What is life imprisonment in Illinois? Oh, you didn't get a name. Yeah. I didn't get an answer.

Read the whole thing right now. It just says that, okay, well, we know that it changes states as state, right? Yes. But I also know Illinois specific. Right. So, I mean, the jurors were set, like, do you know that life imprisonment, the life sentence in Illinois means that he'd be eligible for parole in a few years. So that's the thing.

You get life in prison and then you're fucking eligible for parole. And in this case, in Illinois, get parole after 10 years. Oh, okay. So that's right. Well, I mean, is that what you're about to tell me? He got parole? No. Oh.

No. No, no, no. Blah, blah, blah, blah. So they said they would have given the electric chair. Oh, shit. Blah, blah, blah. So, okay, let's see. The whole prosecution was based on his confession, which predated Miranda warnings that are required

today. Wow. I didn't realize Miranda warnings were that recent. Yeah. Fuck. Okay. Like how John Wayne's real name is Priscilla? No, it isn't.

Yeah. Or Miriam. That's my middle name. It's a girl name. What? Really? It's Jewish. Okay.

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. So then at some point, so he, from the moment he was in prison, is saying he's fucking innocent. And that some woman had a deathbed confession that was never, like, corroborated, corroborated. He's maintained his innocence. He's 77, and he is the third longest held inmate in a state prison, having served a life sentence since 1961. He's been requesting parole since 1972.

It's 14 times that he's been up for parole. Wow. Yeah. And he's always saying. If he did it, he probably would have been paroled, because part of getting paroled is accepting responsibility for your crime, and he fucking refuses to do it. DNA tests were requested, but so there was a fucking hair found in the victim's fists and the blood stains on the coat.

They were requested testing in 2004, but the items had not been properly preserved and thus no longer had held evidentiary value, which seems like bullshit, right? Like you can fucking find it in there somewhere. Well, but it sounds like what they're saying is like instead of putting it in a Ziploc bag, they put it in one of those sandwich bags that folds over at the top, where it's like, those don't work for sandwiches. Why are they going to work for evidence? Well, I, you know, I looked this, this case up on Facebook to see if anyone was like talking

about it as their hometown murder. And one guy who's name I fucking can't remember was like, this is my hometown murder. And these items, the jacket and the fucking branch that had been used to kill them were brought to schools to show children. No. Yeah. And so. The books can jacket comes back.

Yeah. Like the guy was like, the guy worked for the Innocence Project, Innocence Project, and he was like, the reason these fucking things couldn't be tested is because one of the fucking investigators had like one of the pieces of evidence on his wall as a trophy. And these got brought, like the guy was like, my mom remembers these being brought into school and you could like touch them and fucking learn about the murder as well. Just get as many little kid fingerprints on there as you possibly can. He's pretty smart if that's a fucking tactic.

Yeah. Because this was back when, yeah. Yeah. No one knew. So it was so recent. Well, as less than a month ago, he was up for parole again. Jesus. How old is this motherfucker?

77. He was up for parole again and he got denied. And one of the only living jurors left, Nancy Porter, who's 92, said that she now finds the confession implausible because she thought that Wager, who was unarmed, who was only five foot eight, could have been overpowered by the three women, which I think is such bullshit. That's not how fucking crimes work. Like you intimidate these three, you know, quiet women who go along with what you're

telling them to do and intimidate them. Like it doesn't matter how big you are. No, no, no, no. That's like acting like every crime situation is the same. Yeah. And this person is a criminal. He could have lured them to a spot, cracked one of them on the head, scared the shit out of the other two.

Like who knows? He tied two of them together. So you're overpowering two of them. The other woman's not going to leave. I mean, it's not like they're going to fucking ninja him, like, you know, overpower him. And that's the same thing with the Richard Speck case where he went into, they couldn't understand how he, there was so many women in this room and he, he kept them all in that room and then took them out one by one and murdered them.

Yeah, and nobody. And it's like, because it's a psychological thing. And he scared the shit out of them. He scared them and he kept saying probably if you go along with what I'm trying to do, I'll let you go. I'll let you go. And so the, you know, especially back then when you got to be fucking polite to everyone, you go along with it, hoping you'll be spare.

You just want this situation to end. Yeah. I mean, that, yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. Okay. So silver lining. So the crime lab is now one of the finest in the state because of the shoddy work from the star rock case and someone said the state crime lab was less equipped than a high school

chemistry lab at the time. And this is from Steve Stout. He wrote a book called the star rock murders. This crime is more important than most because it changed the system of criminal investigation in Illinois. And then I went on Reddit and there was a guy who said there was a guy named, or a woman named bed pan three. I know.

I guess she, I don't know what's going on with her. You know, she's a woman because she says my, well, maybe not. She says my husband and I fucking assumed. Oh, right. Right. I mean, not trying to come on everybody. She says there's huge like there was a bedpan, a bedpan one and a bedpan two already taken. The other two.

No. This is the third best bedpan. Yeah. This is a huge, there's a huge number of people from this town in my surrounding area that think he's, he was a scapegoat. Her ex's husband's grandfather was a judge during the time, the knot during this trial and told me that there was no way in hell he did the crime. The bodies from what I remember reading had animal slash dog bites that were just left

unexplained. Theories include that a business owner who was from another nearby town who had a very, had very large well-trained dogs was a possibility because he inexplicably immigrated back to his home country right after the murders leaving his entire family behind. Another theory is that the women's wealthy Chicago businessman husbands paid someone to have them killed in the park for various nefarious reasons. The only real consensus is that pretty much no one at the time or years later believed it was Wager.

I don't think it's the husband having them killed because the way they're mutilated and left with their legs open. And if he, if Wager was a rapist and was the rapist that raped that girl, it would be more in line with a person who has, is a rapist, has issues with women and basically is escalating. I don't disagree with the fact that it sounds like, if, if I didn't know any of the suspects, I would think it was at least two people. Yeah. You know?

Yeah, but who knows? You get, you crack somebody over the head with a stick when you're, and you're, you're with your two friends. Yeah. Somebody gets cracked over the head and then you're like, and suddenly there's like some wild man that's like, sit down and I have to tie you up and I mean, it's over. He probably did it, but yeah, he probably did it. But the, it is interesting that whole thing of like, you can't really base it on what

the polygraph says and you can't, and you do have to be suspect. Now what we know these days of how police interrogations used to go, we've all seen LA Confidential. It's a pity that DNA can't figure this one out. Yeah. That's amazing. That's such a good story. Yeah.

Starve Rockmitters. And also such a creepy name. Starve Rockmitters. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Is it Starve or starving? Starved.

Starved, past tense. Starved. Like they did. Yeah, but it can't be, what, if it's the twine from the, from the restaurant. Yeah. And you know, so with someone else who worked there, it probably wasn't. It could have been someone else. Yeah.

I mean, he's still alive and he's trying to get out and it's this, it's the line cook. Yeah. It's the line cook. It's not the dishwasher. It's always a sous chef. He just wants to be the head chef. He's got a fun mustache and you're like, I love that guy. And he's like.

Steven. I'm so sick of chopping celery. I can fucking take your, your poin, shove it, put a chive on it. Okay. And so mine this week is worrisome because it's the case that I brought up the week before last and I didn't really know anything about it, but I just wanted to cite it to you and it was the Sherry Papini case. Yes.

So it's an amazing thing because I went into such a like black hole on the internet today that I had that thing happen where I was reading, it was light outside when I was reading. And then next thing I knew it was pitch black in my house. Yeah. Cause you didn't get up to turn any lights on. Exactly. And I hadn't really looked around so that when I looked up, it was like I was sitting in a pitch black room.

It was kind of scary. That's a really depressed one. It's like one of my depression triggers. Yes. Where you, where you let just the light fade away. Yeah. I jumped up and turned a lamp on. I had dogs.

It wasn't too bad. But like if anyone had come like looked through the window and seen what you were looking like reading about, I'm not killing this girl. Yeah. She's crazy. She's going to kill me. Yeah. But here's the, because the reason that it, it was, you know, hours and hours of reading

and all these different websites is because this case goes, has so many levels and it is crazy. Like when I first started talking to you about it, I just wanted to kind of be like, it's that crazy case and it's got some twists and turns. But because I didn't really know specifics, I kind of was like just gave up. Well, I love that I really don't know. I know that everyone's talking about it. You mentioned it to me.

I love that you're filling me in on every, like I have enough. I just want to fucking hear this. I'm excited. All right. So I'll give you the, I'll give you the overview. Okay. So what we're talking about here in one way, and this is what people are being so careful about it because yeah, there's no proof that it's anything but a woman who has been victimized.

And what I really like about that is that there are people who are being so fastidious as to make sure that no one is accusing a victim of a crime of doing anything. That being said, there is insane amounts of evidence that something is wrong with this case. Like it's really suspicious. It's very suspicious and it's not, it's just interesting. So we will talk about facts and I'll just try to be very clear about what facts are as opposed to hearsay or anything and just try to remind you every seven minutes that we're

talking about a victim and that this isn't, you know, in no way are we trying to like give an opinion about this. I just find this case to be incredibly fascinating. So here's, here's what we know. It's a woman named Sherry Papini who is 34 year old married mother of two who lives in Redding, California disappeared while she was jogging on November 2nd. And she reappeared three weeks later on the side of highway five before dawn on Thanksgiving day 150 miles away from where she was taken.

She was beaten. She was bloody and her hands were chained behind her back. Fuck. Yeah. She told police that she had been kidnapped by two Hispanic women in a van who tortured and starved her. No. Okay.

Go on. So after she was found, her husband Keith gave interviews to both Good Morning America and 2020. Wait. Okay. Already questions. You said that the entirety of her captive, her being captured was by two Hispanic women. Yes.

The entirety of it. Yep. Let's just go with the facts on. On those interviews, Keith hit her husband, said his wife's captors to Latina women, kept their faces covered, spoke Spanish with the majority of the time. They beat her. They broke her nose. They cut her hair.

They starved her. He claimed that Sherry had lost 15% of her body weight and that the captors quote unquote branded her, which led to speculation that the kidnapping was part of a sex trafficking operation. So after she was found, a woman saw her again at 4 a.m. on the side of the road called 911. She gets taken to the hospital. And her injuries include bruises, a broken nose, burns and starvation. But she was discharged several hours later.

She tells police that she was held captive and she describes the two Latinas as one being old, one being young, one had curly hair, one had straight hair, one had thin eyebrows, one had thick eyebrows. Once she was released from the hospital, she and her family left Reading, the town that she lives in, for an undisclosed location to avoid media attention. And Sherry herself has not been seen by the media since her disappearance. Shut up on Thanksgiving. Yes, since, like she's basically not been seen by the media at all.

So they've seen the pictures of her, which are from her wedding day, which are seven years prior. So she hasn't given any interviews or hasn't been seen. Just her husband. So her husband went on a 2020 and Good Morning America, and he told the whole story for her. And which makes sense for a victim who is traumatized and needs to be away from everything. Yeah, but does he, but did he need to do that? Well, true.

Like if that's the case and she doesn't want to be, it needs to be away from it. Well, they, and that's what they told people is basically she got out of the hospital and then they left town and told everybody that they are doing it to avoid the media. And then he relatively soon after goes on both to, you know, major national television shows. Okay. Do you want to? Okay.

So I'm going to hold my comments. All right. Yeah. Just accrue it and listen because it's interesting. I can't remember anything. There are actually websites that normally dive right into cases like this, the kind of Nancy Grace style cases who will not entertain anything except for that Sherry Papini is a victim. And anybody saying anything different, that's like, you can't talk about that, which is

a stance. I mean, it's just like a way to do it. But of course Reddit is not like that because Reddit entertains anything at all times and you can say what you want. And so there's Reddit is the place I found a lot of this information. Um, the Shasta County sheriff actually recently came out to say he believes Sherry Papini's story. Um, but he said that in direct conflict with an earlier statement where the sheriff's office

communications officer said they weren't ruling anything out. Um, so no one knows if he said that to fix what somebody that was just basically answering the phone and talking to the Huffington Post said, um, or what, but there hasn't been much movement. The, the, uh, Shasta County, no, the, no, but none of the police up there have been warning people. They haven't put out in, uh, any kind of a PB about these two women. There haven't been warnings to other women about being careful or this is what you need

to look for. I think that says a lot. Um, yeah. Okay. Uh, so basically we'll go over it like this is the way the, the, the timeline problems essentially. Okay. Um, so the day that she went jogging, like the day that her husband Keith realized that

she was missing, he was at work and he came home from work and she wasn't there and the kids weren't there. And instead of calling her, he said he, because sometimes I think the reason is I was confused by this, but basically that sometimes reception is bad up there, which makes sense because it's like way up north of Sacramento, um, that he pinged her phone instead with find my iPhone. Okay. Um, so then he realizes where the phone is and it's a mile away from their house where

it kind of near where their mailbox is, which is if you've grown up in the country, it's that thing where like your house is way up here on some weird long dusty road and your mailboxes are in a long line with a bunch of other people's mailboxes down the road. Like you, you go to your mailbox when you're driving up your driveway. Exactly. Right. A mile seems far to me, but I don't know. Okay.

And also this is like, I was looking at a map of Reading and there's nothing. I mean, also the, like the group that neighborhoods like put mailboxes together, it has nothing to do with where your house is kind of, right? Exactly. Neighborhoods, neighborhoods don't exist there. It's like all of these houses just kind of like they're probably ranch style houses spread out. Fuck that man.

So I want neighbors to hear me scream. Scary at night. Yeah. Um, so he says, he called his mother and he, um, I can't remember, but basically it's just this weird thing of why wouldn't you just call her phone and like, okay. So, um, he basically, he pings her phone, finds it, uh, and it's at the corner of sunrise drive and old Oregon trail. And when he gets there, he immediately takes a picture of it.

It's sitting, um, her phone of her phone, uh, it's sitting with, you're just going to keep saying that. I know. That's what, no, no, no, you can't, but I'm just saying there's a lot of that, um, there's headphones sitting on top of the phone, on top of them very neatly, it says, and he takes a picture of it. So the police, um, said that it looked staged. They commented on that early that said it looked staged, but he didn't touch the phone.

He like, whatever. And a lot of people on these threads were talking about if your significant other was missing in a way that you really felt was real, you would grab that phone and start looking at what are the last calls, texts, anything. All right. Um, so then he files a missing persons report and in all, in every way he talks about her, instead of saying kidnapped or missing, he keeps using the word taken Liam Nason style. Um, okay.

So then they put up five days after she goes missing, they put up sherrypeppini.com and it's a website. Five days. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Um, it's just a website about the whole case. Please help us find her, she's missing with her picture and everything else, all the information, what she's wearing and the whole thing.

And 10 days after that, this letter goes up on that website and it's from an anonymous donor and it says that it says like, I'm an anonymous donor. I'm offering an undisclosed reward for sherry's immediate release. Um, my middleman is Cameron Gamble, who's a intern in international negotiator, um, who also happens to live in Reading the fuck, right? So this is, I think this is the part now separate from people saying, please protect a victim who has been victimized. Yeah, absolutely.

But this is the part where everyone's like, this thing stinks to high heaven because, um, when you go on, there's a really great, um, article that was on the daily beast called, um, like things you should know about the shady private investigator involved in the sherrypeppini case. Oh fuck yeah. That's amazing because it's all about him and how like it's really, there's lots of great information. There's videos that he has on his website, Cameron Gamble.com, he's a guy that's trying

like he has, uh, his organization, it's supposedly a nonprofit, profit organization called project taken. And it's about dude, it's about warning women, uh, or like telling women what to do in case someone tries to kidnap them. What the fuck? So all of these things are like, just, they just are very suspect. It's just all very, a little bit like a movie and a little bit, I don't think so. Too coincidental.

Very coincidental. And also in the best case scenario, what this person did in this anonymous donor that put this letter up on their website was basically trying to circumvent law enforcement and say, if you have her, I will give you money. Just bring her back. Is it no questions asked? Exactly. Oh no, you can't do that.

They don't use that phrase, but it's basically saying, we don't have to deal with the police. Like if you, you can have the money, just bring her back. Which pisses the police off so much because if that's actually the case, then other women are in danger and you have not. You can't do it that way. You've just eliminated all the suspects because you're being a fucking asshole. Well, it just, it doesn't work that way. It doesn't.

You could be making up a new way to do it and then going like, I'm anonymous. I'm anonymous. The amount of money is anonymous. Please use my middleman. None of those things, I think, really line up and then it goes against law enforcement. So basically then three weeks since she goes missing, three weeks pass and on the morning of Thanksgiving. She spotted at 4am next to the highway near Woodland, a city called Woodland, which I

don't remember from living up there, with her arms chained behind her back. This woman sees her trying to, like she said it looked like she was trying to like flag her down, like wave something. I don't know how she would do that with her arms behind her back. But the woman calls 911 and she's taken to the hospital. So in, oh, and when he, when the woman describes her in this 911 call, she says she has long blonde hair. So after, after she's found and the family asked for privacy, several family members

grant a Daily Mail interview, which is the British newspaper, I believe, and someone also sells a picture of her kids on Thanksgiving to the Daily Mail. And then of course, her husband does both interviews. Do they know who sold it or is it like anonymous? They say family members. There's no one specifically named. In her 20, in his 2020 interview, her husband Keith says her signature long blonde hair had been chopped off.

But she was described as having long hair by the 911 caller and a lot of people bring up like who has signature long blonde signature as to as compared to what, like, dude, it's not she's not like, you know, Gwyneth Paltrow or whatever, it's she's a mom. And even if it is, it's like, why didn't the caller describe her as having that? And he said the exact, this guy seems to pick up phrases that sound, um, coerced or not coerced like, rehearsed. Rehearsed. Yeah.

But also just weird. Like it's that thing where people get a weird feeling. And that's the thing that like I, what we're now talking about that are in direct contention with each other is the weird feeling you have when you think someone's lying versus a victim trying to tell their story. And I'm not, everything I've heard doesn't, it's, it makes the husband sound suspicious. Not her. Right.

It sounds like this fucking happened to her. Well, yeah. I don't think, like nothing makes me think that this, that she isn't actually a legitimate victim. So basically when she, he gives these interviews, there's experts that are experts in like whatever reaction or whatever, facial, facial reaction recognition or whatever that say his crying is completely fake. Like he does these things where he bursts out into tears, but he, he, um, makes the noises

and his eyes get a little bit red, but there's no actual streaming tears. That, that whole fucking, uh, study is fascinating to me. I love that shit. Yeah. Like micro expressions and stuff like that, like the way they know people are lying. Amazing. It's pretty interesting. But I also think that that's interesting because that happens on TV shows a lot where

people are supposed to be crying like in acting, but it's really hard thing to do to fake cry. It's really hard. Even if you mean it and want to do it. So like you can, but we're all used to it where it's like people like, I'm just really, you know, you make the noise, you can do the voice and everything, but to get the stuff to come out of your eyes is really hard to do. Yeah. But you can still see it.

Like I, I have a really hard time crying and there's moments where I'm like, it's okay to do this thing, but you, you're trying so hard not to, but you can hear it in the voice. Right. Well, the key, the key of real crying, I learned this in an acting class one time is trying not to cry because that's the real thing people do is try not to, no one ever wants to really cry. So sitting and, and I don't know this man and who knows what's really happening. None of us know.

Again, I'm just going to keep saying it. None of us know what's really happening, but most of the time, if you're being interviewed and you're talking about something that happened to a person and also he'd already gotten his wife back home. So she, she hadn't died. And yes, she had been a victim of something terrible, but he was acting like he was sobbing, but he wasn't actually sobbing, which is just not a natural thing for people to, especially a man, I'm sorry to say, they have less permission to have a motion.

You do a thing where you're like, sorry, give me one second and you rain it back in and then you continue to talk. And it's like, just give me a moment and you think that they're going to cut it out or something of the, we've all seen all of these shows a million times, all of these shows. You know what it's, it's they talk and then their lip moves in a weird way and then the eyes go and the water is there and their voice breaks, their voice breaks, I'm embarrassed about it. And it's a very hard thing to face.

They're trying to get a point across and they can't. And guess what, again, all of this theory there. Okay. So in his interview for 2020, he calls people who would doubt Sherry's story subhuman. Okay. He doesn't call her attackers anything. What? Yeah.

That's amazing. But it's, he also said, when he was on Good Morning America, he said, I understand people want the story pictures, proof that this was not some sort of hoax, plan to get money or fabricate a race war. I do not see a purpose in addressing each preposterous lie. Yes. Who brought up a race war? He did.

Initially. He did. No, no, no. This is him. And that's the thing that everybody was saying of just like, of all those other things. Yes, yes, yes. We get it. You don't have to address every lie.

You're right. What? Wait, why are we talking about a race war? What the fuck? I'm good morning fucking America. They should have vetted the shit out of him. So, okay, now we're going back to this idea, which is a real fucking thing that happens in this country, sex trafficking.

It's horrifying. It really happens. It's still kind of mysterious. Nobody really knows what it looks like, what it means. It's very like. Nobody knows who it happens to and it happens to people that don't, that it's not why it's not people. Yeah, it's not, yeah, so we're all like, it never happens because it happens to people

who are victims to begin with. Yes, that's right. Runaway kids. Yeah. But the thing that that's true is it usually happens to younger women. This woman is 30, sorry, I said it 32, 36 people who won't miss the victims or won't be believed when they said that there's a victim or that it's a runaway, you know, people who are at risk.

At risk, yeah, and under something, something. So but the other thing is she, she, one of her injuries that was reported is that she was burned as if she, it liked, you know, as if she was branded for this sex trafficking. But real sex trafficking is the branding is just a word that they use for it. They tattoo them. Right. They don't brand them like cattle because they want them to, they want to sell these women that they don't want to ruin their, their, okay, that no, that's exactly right.

Well, a, they don't want to ruin their bodies. They don't want to cut their blonde, beautiful blonde hair. That's a fucking selling point. Exactly. They don't want to beat them up and break their nose. Those are all selling points. But also the idea that someone wouldn't actually know the insider information that tattoos are how you brand not with a brand like quote branding.

It's like branding as a quote. Yes. What the fuck? So, so, so we're just adding up holes. We're just mentioning things or the reason people are suspicious. Got it. So the other, now we turn to her social media. Okay.

Oh my God. Excited. She had a wedding blog on which she claimed that she had never lived with a man, but she had actually had been married and was divorced in 2007. Shit. So people are citing this as just kind of times before this isn't, she's been described as a super mom, as the best person in the world, as sweet, you know, all American. There's this picture that's been painted of her by him on the, in these interviews.

And so people are just trying to cite other things that maybe would contradict that inconsistencies. Exactly. And one of them is that, that this very blatant lie that she was basically trying to make it seem like she'd never married before. And it's like, well, why lie? It's not that that's a blight on your fucking personality that makes it, that you should be kidnapped. It's, it's okay.

Well, it's okay. It's not the 1800s. So you don't, but, but this was long before. Okay. So it's kind of like saying, it's just kind of trying to show a thing that maybe this is a person who doesn't have a problem throwing up a lie. Yeah. But it could have been put up her or him.

This is her. Okay. This was her wedding blog. Okay. But then I will contradict that just in fairness to say, Reading is a small town and there could be people that don't like her and are trying to defame her because she is in, in this spotlight and she has in a bad place. And you know what I want to say, like I, I was engaged before Vincent and I got married.

And at this point in my life, I'm like, he was really just a boyfriend. Like it was, you know, like you get married and you're like, this was stupid. We were young. It's like, it wasn't a real marriage and you say it wasn't because it doesn't fucking matter. Sure. That makes sense. Totally.

Yeah. Are you just, you get to write whatever you want on your wedding blog. Yeah. There's plenty of ways to argue the other way. For sure. Now. There was a blog post written under her maiden name, which is Sherry Graff, um, on a skinhead website in 2007, and it was a story about her getting jumped by three Latino men and

five Latina women and her fighting all of them off. And the whole thing was kind of about why can't she be proud of being white? Oh, no. So this is where, no, here's the thing. Her father says that someone else wrote it and is in it being an imposter and trying to make her look bad. But I feel like the second you start saying the word skinheads and that is part of that. Now this also is in this, like Northern Central California.

This is, this is the area where stuff like this takes place. I mean, this is, there is, there probably is a big, there's a huge Latina woman. Latina community there. It's actually, Reading apparently is like 97% white. Holy shit. So now I read that though. I mean, that might not be exactly right because I read that on, in all of these posts that I was reading, that might not be exact.

There's definitely a big Latina community because it's a, most of these are farming communities and I don't, I'm just saying what I'm reading, but this, now on Reddit, there are all these people who claim to be from Reading and who went to high school with her. Oh my God. So basically I won't get into that. Now I realize I probably shouldn't get into the details of these stories because this is straight up slander.

This is gossip. There's no way to prove that people went to high school with her. There's no way to prove that she wrote that post actually. There's a, I don't know if there's any way to prove that she wrote that post. They can prove that someone with that name wrote that post at that time, but they can't prove it was her. Right. Fingers on the keys.

Right. Exactly. All right. But, but however, it, it ties these two stories together. Yes. It just is a, yes, exactly. Okay. This, this thing with the people that talk about her, nobody is, is being malicious.

Most of the people say this, this doesn't seem right. And here's what I know about this person, but I hope we find out the truth. Nobody is on there like in any way, but, I mean, but also that's a good way to try to seem trustworthy is to not be malicious. But most of the people said that in high school, she needed to be the center of attention. And she would sometimes pretend to have heart problems if other people were getting too much attention. And so one of the stories was they were camping and a girl had a hypothermia.

She was stayed in the lake too long and had hypothermia and they, as they were rushing her to the hospital, all of a sudden Sherry had heart palpitations and she, now she had a problem too. It was like, there's a couple of stories like that where it's like kind of comes out of the blue in a very convenient way. Okay. Again, unproven, yeah, who knows who these people are that are writing this. There was also a woman who was her, she wouldn't say what it was specifically.

She just said in the beauty business and she was just saying how one time Sherry had an appointment. This just seems like gossip. Yeah. But this is basically like it's times where people are just saying overreactions, big, big swings in behavior, weird shit that no one can talk about because this person is a victim. Who knows?

It leads up to one that is a fact and one that is, that I'm kind of freaked out by. Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me. It's the disappearance of a girl named Tara Smith on October 22nd, 1998, then 16 year old Tara Smith, a high school student in Reading, California, left home to go jogging only never to be seen, never to be seen again. Tara's father believes that a local man who was Tara's romantic interest may have been responsible for her disappearance. He said on the night of her disappearance, she had plans to meet with the then 29 year

old Marshall Arts instructor, Troy Zink to end their relationship. He was married and had a child, if not two children. And he had also served a year in jail for rape. Oh my God, please. Her father found an unmailed letter in her room after she disappeared that prompted his theories about Zink. In the letter, she tells him she knows she'd made a huge mistake. She never should have gotten involved with him.

But this letter was never delivered and rather than give him the letter, we believe she wanted to confront him in person to break it off. Zink told authorities that Tara had asked to meet him near her home. And then when they met, demanded $2,000 from him. He refused and she got angry. And then she asked him to drop her off at the corner of Old Alturas Road and Old Oregon Trail. No.

That's from where Sherry Pappini had been taken. That's a lot of miles. That's a lot of miles. He said he then went to Hanglider Hill to pray. He returned home at 11.30 p.m. Tara's father went to his house after Tara didn't return, Tara not Tara. And Tara's father said Zink is an avid four wheeler guy. He knows the back roads.

He had five and a half hours to get rid of the evidence. He's been smart enough to keep his mouth shut. The police have not been able to move ahead with the case. It's heartbreaking and very frustrating. The guy still lives in Reading. Almost 20 years have passed and he has gotten more comfortable, changed his name and thinks people have forgotten, but we haven't forgotten. And while Sherry was missing, her husband, Keith, asked Tara Smith's father, Terry,

for advice. Keith came to me and we spoke for about an hour. The father of the missing girl told the magazine, I just told him to stay strong for the kids and not assume law enforcement has the answers and to push them. It was obvious Keith was torn up and I believe he was confident he'd get his wife back. Tara Smith was a schoolmate of Sherry Pappini. Wait, they went to school together? They went to high school together.

The two girls? Yep. The girl that disappeared went to high school, Sherry Pappini. Fuck. Tell me more. That's it. That's it? It's basically...

Holy shit. It's basically that there's no conclusion to be draw from it except for that it's an exact parallel of the same story. So we don't know where they are. Okay, but one could argue that... I don't have any feelings against or for Sherry. I just think that the husband sounds suspicious as fuck. I'm not...

I don't... It sounds like she was a fucking victim, but whether it's of the crime that is claimed that she went through or this fucking husband who sounds like a piece of work, I don't know. I think that this is one of those kinds of stories that anything could be possible. The thing everyone online keeps saying is it's a total gone girl situation. And in that, I would say it's that we just don't know, but the thing is, to me, what's interesting is law enforcement doesn't seem to be moving overtly forward with anything. Maybe they're just not being super vocal about it.

The fact that they haven't warned the community to be on the lookout or to be careful or that this thing is happening speaks volumes to me. And okay, so... What was I gonna say? Yeah, I don't know. The whole thing is just creepy. It's super creepy, and the thing that's interesting is there's a lot of stuff cropping up. When I lived in Petaluma, we would hear gossip all the time about Pauli Klaas's family, and

because there was always someone that knew an insider that had something to tell you. It's like, oh, here's the gossip, here's the insider information, and it's like urban legends where that kind of stuff, people like to talk about it, especially when you don't know what the answer is. If you're rising about this and trying to put it together is very satisfying. Here's my thing. This is the major thing to me. The thing that sounds more likely is not two Hispanic women kidnapping a mother and wife

off the fucking street, and solely, they're just not doing that. What's the other... Well, and because also the husband said that she said they had their faces covered. Right. So how do you know they're Hispanic or have eyebrows that are a certain way? Well, we don't know how they recovered, but why would you walk up to two people in a car with their faces covered? The Hispanic women, it's one of those things where it's so insulting to Hispanic women,

and I fucking don't see it, and then there's this man who maybe has... The husband who maybe has ties to skin-head organizations and wants to fucking deface... No, the husband doesn't. I know, but I don't know. The whole skin-head website thing says a lot to me. That's her though. But maybe it's him too. But that's before she knew him.

I just... It sounds so much more likely that the husband who is trying to get a lot of fucking attention and saying, really fucking incriminating weird shit and hiring people who skirt around law enforcement and has something to do with this is so much more likely than two fucking Hispanic women who have no fucking reason to kidnap this woman and didn't... Well, that's the thing. There's no ransom. Right, right.

Well, there's no point... That's why everybody feels like it stinks, that there's no point to it. It's not like the idea that she's not saying where she was in the meantime. There are no details about... There's absolutely no detail that she has given the police about where she was, what happened, what they were saying... Somebody was saying, what state was she in? Were her nails cut?

Yeah. What did her clothes look like? Were they the same clothes that she left in? What almost sounds more likely to me is that these things happen to this woman, these exact things she's saying, it just was someone else and they scared her into saying that it was two Hispanic women. I disagree because the list of injuries that she gives, no hospital would let you leave two hours after you arrive.

It doesn't make sense because if you have burns, that means you might have infection. If you've been starved, that means you are dehydrated, so they have to rehydrate you, they need to put antibiotics into you, and also you're in shock, you've just had this terrible thing happen to you. They're going to do a rape kit, which takes hours and hours. I mean, unless there's no word about that whatsoever. There's absolutely no word about that, but it doesn't make sense that no hospital would let somebody just walk out like, look, I'm fine.

They're the list of how badly she was beaten and injured. The victim to me in this and the thing I want to protect is the two Hispanic women narrative. I just don't think that's fucking fair. Especially with the skin head tie, it pisses me off that that would be the narrative. Then I'll just remind that the skin head tie could be some weird red herring. Just to say it, who knows what that is. Because anyone can write her name, who knows what that was. Fuck, man.

But as you dig into the story, it goes into like, when I was in that stuff where it's like, oh, people that went to high school with her said she was this, said she was that. But then I'm like, this is gossip. This is all gossip. This is shitty gossip. What would people say about me if it was me in the same situation? The shit that people say about us would be upsetting. But to come back around to the parallel story of a girl she went to high school with that

actually did disappear. And this is the other thing I will read that someone did say on Reddit that I actually really liked. Someone said, I actually work with human trafficking victims now, and it really pisses me off that the whole world is freaking out over this one woman, yet there are thousands of girls that go missing and are sold into sex trafficking every year right here in the US and they aren't even in the news. I really, really hope that they figure all this out and the truth comes out whatever

it is. Fuck, man. Hey, fucking man. I mean, yeah. Shit. If it brings light to the fact that sex trafficking actually does happen, that'll be great. But I feel like there's a lot of people who are like armchair detectives like you and me who smell a rat and go, there's more to this story and they're not talking.

And also, oh, the last thing is they started to go fund me. Somebody else started to go fund me and in seven days they made $40,000. For the family? Uh-huh. Something fucking smells fishy. I mean, and it's in his sister's name. This dude, like I'm not even looking at her, this fucking dude, he's a big dude is saying enough himself to be incriminated, nothing to do with her.

She might have been a fucking pawn in his game. Or vice versa. Or a third choice that we don't know. It's just so fascinating because when these things get presented on the news, I think back to like, I saw this just briefly in passing. And it was her blonde hair and big smile and this mother is missing. And everybody's talking about it across the nation. And then it basically is like, okay, here's the story and then the end.

And everyone's like, well, wait a second, we need to make sure that we fucking update as much as we get, as soon as we get information about this, we need to update it. Because this is one of the things that you never hear about again. And it's like, oh, well, they all went to fucking prison. Also the international kidnapping expert is that part in the middle. Oh my God. Someone said this on Reddit, but it's like, this is basically a Coen Brothers movie. It's like these characters.

John Goodman. I mean, it doesn't, it's like somebody coming in and being like, I am on behalf of an anonymous donor. I am here to say you can come to me and you don't have to go to the cops, which the cops up there must have lost their fucking shit. I have a degree in international kidnapping things. I am. My major was Liam Neesonning.

Karen, that's our new fucking title for listen, if anyone gets kidnapped and you need someone to fucking intervene on your behalf, don't go to come right here, Karen and Georgia, my favorite murder. Like we are on this with fucking wild speculation. We're personal experiences. There's going to be a lot of we're mad at you for saying this and that and the other thing. But I'm not going to speak.

This story, I think we've cleared it at every level, but this story is fascinating. You can't deny. Amazing. There's something else going on. It's fascinating. Motherfuckers. Everyone's a motherfucker. What is fucking wrong with people?

Just like live your fucking life. I'm sorry. I'm really angry. This is like, can we not have a fucking moment, like not being total pieces of shit? Can't it just be Christmas? Can't it be fucking C's candy and fucking true crime fucking playing cards and Elvis and fucking meme. Like, can we please?

Oh, I hate it. The answer that you get served up every week is no, no, no answers, nine, no, no moments, nine, uh, speaking of moments, anything that happened to you this week. Oh, shit. Oh, I always forget. I always forget. Okay. I'm sure.

Really think it through. All right. Well, I think every week it's going to be nephew for me because we had our family. I know. Right. But I have a specific one. We had our family Hanukkah party last night and my nephew is one and my other nephew is six.

We like, I like made them all play a game to get we all played a game and it was like, because I didn't want my six year old nephew to feel left out and I want my one year old nephew to like have memories of my six year old nephew and like, so I fucking anti fucking Georgia like totally killed it. What game? Just scared the baby. Did the baby like it? I loved scared the baby.

Yeah. Of course. It was great. It was great. That's good. Yeah. It was just like maybe made my heart feel good. I had kind of a magical moment, which was I was turning to get onto the one on one

freeway and as I passed the mobile gas station, which is right on Koanga there, right there. Yeah. I think it is. There were three men doing their nightly. What is it? Taiji? Oh. Three men facing east and doing their nightly Islamic prayers.

That's gorgeous. And it was, they were doing it because they, it was just basically the furthest corner away from the gas pumps that they could be and you have to be at the certain time. You have to stop wherever you are and do the prayers. Right. And it was, it was the furthest corner and it was like kind of around the corner. So it wasn't like people could see them or whatever, but they were also doing it in front of the mobile symbol.

So it was lit up for me. As I turned to look at it, it was lit up in front of that symbol, like a movie. It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. What a beautiful moment to remind you that there's more than just this traffic and this and driving and there is at that moment, someone is having a spiritual connection with the universe that has nothing to do with your surroundings and their surroundings. They're taking some time out to do that. And also that this is fucking America.

Yeah. That that's what we were supposed to be able to see in America. Yep. That that's what you should want to see. And that's a great thing to see. And thank God we live in a city, Los Angeles, that doesn't interfere with that. Yeah. That supports that and is open to that and it's fine with that.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I felt very grateful. That's fucking gorgeous. That's a cool one. And I scared the baby. Meanwhile, I'm scaring this shit out of my one-year-old nephew.

If you go to iTunes and you can rate review and subscribe us and you know, it's great. It helps us. But fuck man. Thank you guys. Thank you guys. iTunes, my favorite murder, Instagram, my favorite, I don't know, just thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thanks to Stephen Ray Morris of the Percast for welcoming your audio engineer. And good gifts. You guys are amazing. Thank you for listening. Elvis, you want to, wait, you want to, oh wait, Merry Christmas and happy holidays. Happy holidays, Elvis. You want a cookie? Want a cookie?

All right. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Bye. Bye.