My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 56- Service Poodle

Episode Date: February 16, 2017

There's no time to sing a goddamn song, but there is time for My Favorite Murder! This week Karen and Georgia unpack the Darlie Routier case and the true story behind Hollywood star Fatty Arbuckle.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Hey, hey, what's going on? Oh, nothing. How are you? Oh, pretty good. Um, hey, this is my favorite murder. That's Karen. That's right. That's Georgia. That's right. And this is a podcast where we talked to you about murders that have happened. We also talked to you about the presence that we just opened from a bunch of murderinos that are the fucking awesomeness. We've been giving given lovely, lovely gifts, all sorts of different things. I

enjoy one of the things that I opened was Buffalo Bill's lotion. It puts the lotion on the skin or else it gets the hose again. You can get that on Etsy as well. Do you know that person's name? We should probably do it in an orderly fashion, right? But I love it. It's handmade. Her name, it's handmade is the name of her. And her name is Bethany. Fuck. All right, we'll figure it out. Well, also she sent us presents because we'd already given her a plug on the show. And so now we're in like an unending cycle of gifts and plugs. Man, you send me catnip and I'll fucking fall. That seems wrong, though. I know. That seems that seems like a immoral. That's sort of where the whole thing. No. Hey, what's going on? Okay, so what's going on? Well, the thing that people

keep on tweeting to us. And when I say keep on, and certainly I want to communicate with people and I certainly want to know things when it's breaking news. Do I know, do I want to know things 300 times from breaking news? Probably not. Vincent Lee, the man from the bus that killed that boy that was sitting next to him because he thought he was a demon in our cannibal episode. And it was the most horrifying story cannibal or not. And it seemed to be the horrifying details got lost in the fact that I don't know Canadian geography very well. That's really what people got up in arms about. That's what people are angry about. Listen, I tried to correct my saying of Woosta and apparently I was wrong again. Listen, I tried. I mean, look, it's I feel like we might

be making a mistake even even acknowledging anything at this point. But that man, Vincent Lee, has now been entirely released. How the fuck? It's how Canada does it. How the fuck? It's they've decided that he is rehabilitated and that he is going to go free. It's it's there. It's the way their system is set up. You know, what's interesting is that instead of having a like, like there's a parole board of people who are, I don't know if they're voted or whatever the fuck, but there's a parole board that decides if people stay or go. Why isn't that also a jury of her peers who are like, hell no, I don't want that guy living next door to me. Well, because I think that's the given. I think that if you asked anybody, do you want a criminal out in society?

It's the answer is no lock them up forever. But I think the idea is if you're if you are trying to aim for rehabilitation, especially with this guy who was a complete schizophrenic who just didn't take his meds, he did not know where he was. He honestly believed a demon was sitting next to him. None of that, of course, is an excuse or makes anything okay, especially for that family. But that's really what was going on with him. Now that he's on meds, that's not the person that he is. Yeah, but there's no assurance that he's going to keep taking his meds. Right. There's also no assurance that you won't kill me right now. I think that the overall discussion of what is jail for and what is what is rehabilitation for real, because I think that anybody who feels

unsafe wants the answer to be locked them up forever. We never see them again. Right. It's, you know, I mean, we have gotten so many emails and everybody's responses like what the fuck, what the fuck, what the fuck. But there are tons of articles about the way Canadian, like the Canadian justice system works and that that is the goal is not locked them up and you never see them again. And because of that, there's a lot of people that are super pissed off about it. Yeah, I mean, that's not our goal here either. But that happens sometimes either one happens sometimes. Well, we're going to be in Canada this weekend. So everyone let us know what you think about it in person. Yeah, we're going on tour this weekend. Our first big cheer. Yes. I was out on

Saturday night with events. We got an Uber home by a retired cop who was a policeman in Compton for years. It was so fucking cool and had his service poodle with him. He was the sweetest fucking dog. It was just like Saturn elapsed the whole time. No, was that a poodle that had served on the LAPD? No, that was his own personal. It was his, I have PTSD from serving in Compton on the police force for years. So I get to have an Uber and carry this fucking adorable, chillest fuck dog with me the whole time. And he was like, awesome. So he drops us off at Del Taco. Oh, what? I didn't even ask. We were like, I can't go further than this. We're like, all right. Fine. And so Vincent and I go to Del Taco and we're heading home and we're walking across the

street and someone pulls over and rolls their window down. And I was like, oh, fuck. And he yell. And it's just some random dude by himself. You know, like a midnight meals. Stay sexy. That's crazy. I know. I mean, I had a toxic masculinity shirt on. So I don't know if he knew it was me. There you go. Or he's like, this is my favorite murder. Yeah, girl. He just jumped me out. He just looked at me. And I scurly again, screamed at him. Now that's hilarious to me because I think you and I talked about that where you were like, is it nerdy to wear your own shirts? And you clearly made that decision. I made the decision on that shirt because it's a it's a it's a it's a like protest message. And it says my favorite murder was very small on it. And it looked really good on

me. I love that shirt. Which one did you get? Well, all right, actually, it's funny to ask. This is not a setup. I got the just the regular unisex t-shirt size small. And the next day I emailed our fucking awesome girl at the printful Kirsten and was like, can we get this in women's shirts as well? Because that didn't fit me very well. You know how like you want certain shirts to fit. So we now have ladies shirts instead of just unisex. Oh, oh, cool. Yeah, cool. My favorite murder shirts. I like it. I like that you're you're personally walking the message around. Yeah, that's fun. I felt pretty cool. Okay, first. So on June 6 1996, at 231 a.m. 911 dispatchers in Rowlett, Texas, which is a suburb east of Dallas receives a call from Darlie,

roti air, and how she's panicked. And she tells the operator that her home had been broken into and then a stranger had attacked herself and her two sons, Devin and Damon, who were five and six. Well, they were asleep on the couch and they had the person who broke in and stabbed the boys multiple times and slit her throat. So Devin was stabbed twice in the chest and with a ton of force and Damon was stabbed half a dozen or more times in the back. And Darlie, the mom who was sleeping downstairs with the kids. So her throat was slashed and she had a bunch of other wounds. Darlie's husband and the father of the two boys, he was asleep upstairs in bed at the time with their seven month old baby boy. The two boys ended up dying while Darlie was treated at the hospital

and released two days later. She had two slice wounds in her right forearm and one in her left shoulder. And her throat had been cut and the doctor said she survived only because the knife stopped two millimeters short of her carotid artery. So it doesn't seem like a defensive wound or a self-inflicted wound. She'd be going right up to the verge if that was self-inflicted to be insane. Exactly. And then the necklace she was wearing had to be surgically removed from the wound. So it's kind of the only reason it didn't go through the carotid arteries. Her own necklace later. Pretty much like when they cut, they cut the necklace in. So maybe it would have gone deeper. And wow. Yeah. So Darlie, who's 26 at the time, said that she fell asleep on the couch with the

boys. And the reason she was sleeping downstairs with them is that she was a light sleeper. The baby had been waking her up often. And as she's sleeping on the couch, she's awakened by Damon's cries screaming, mommy, mommy. And then she saw a man moving through the kitchen and followed him as he went towards the garage. And when she got to the utility room, she saw a knife and picked it up. And only then, she said, did she return to Devin and Damon and realize that she had been stabbed as well. Her husband Darren comes downstairs after hearing Darlie cry and scream and begins administering CPR to Devin. And by then, the whoever it was had disappeared. So Darren never saw him. And at the scene, the police find a window screen in the garage has been cut,

but the windowsill is undisturbed. Like all the dust and dirt still there. So no one really jumped out of it or in through it. And the knife that was used came from inside the house. But also, there was a sock with the boys blood on it dropped a few houses down on the sidewalk. And a few days after leaving the hospital, Darlie shows up at the police station with dark bruises all over her arms, saying that they had come from the attack attack. But the doctors who examined her said that the bruises were too fresh to have been inflicted on the night of the attacks. And they say that her wounds are self inflicted. But I saw them and it is a it is like a full bruise from her shoulder down to her wrist. Like it's not just a couple little light bruises. It's

fucking half of her arm is a gnarly bruise. Yeah, you're completely convinced you didn't do it to herself. I don't know that. Yes. Yes. I don't know how you would have done that to yourself. Right. But eight days later, on what would have been Devin's seventh birthday, but he died. The family goes to the cemetery family and friends. And apparently they're having a ceremony to honor Devin because it's his birthday. And there's a whole two hour, you know, thing of them. You know, crying and having a whole ceremony and it being a sad thing. But then the news put the only the only part the news put on the on as footage was when they're having a birthday celebration following the ceremony in which Darlie is singing, is laughing and sprang silly string on the graves

and happy birthday. Remember that fucking video footage and everyone was like, what in the fucking fuck? The silly string is like, yeah, I'll never forget it. She's spraying it at the grave. It's not even like up in the air. I mean, whatever. It's she's chewing gum and she's laughing. And I don't care if you fucking had a ceremony before that. And you're crying. It's fucking weird. And she and she's just creepy. And so four days later, she's charged with capital murder. Wait, the one who cut her own throat? Or I mean, whose throat was cut? Yeah, throat was cut so closely that she almost cut her two centimeters away from her carotid artery millimeters. I don't know. Crazy. Yeah. She's arrested for capital murder. The crime scene consultant says that

the evidence suggests the crime had the crime scene had been staged. So the prosecution suggests that that roti air murder her sons because of the family's financial difficulties as well as postpartum depression from her seven month old child. She had never been convicted of anything. She had never shown abuse towards the kid and didn't have any mental illness apparently. They described but they described her as a pampered materialistic woman with substantial debt, plummeting credit ratings and little money in the bank who feared that her lavish lifestyle was about to end. And it's true. She bought they had a lavish lifestyle for sure. But fucking said a lot of people. So San Antonio chief medical examiner testifies that the wound to roti's neck

came within two millimeters of her carotid artery. And that was not consistent with self-inflicted wounds he had seen in the past. But Tom Bevel, who's we'll get to testifies that cast off blood found on the back of her night shirt indicates that she had raised the knife over her head as she would drew it from each boy to stab again. So there's like these little like, blood spatter and on the right it fucking spatters blood under her back. But it's the old blood spatter that we write. And let's let's remember Tom Bevel's name. Oh, okay. Uh-huh. Posted note on Tom Bevel. Okay, so I listened to 911 call because of course I did and I got to play the whole thing for you right now. And then door slam. Yeah, my car peeling. It sounds to me,

it sounded a lot like the Jean Benet Ramsey 911 call. Patsy Ramsey is like panicked. I'm freaking out. I can't answer the questions correctly. There's something off and the way that it went when the analysis happened, the me, the I, my baby, her like not, which I'll get to as well. So it's more the 911 call. She's talking about herself more than the people who need 911 services. Yes. And she's answering questions very well until the question is pointed. And then she freaks it. You know what I mean? Like remembered she was like, what happened? And then Patsy just starts screaming, my baby, my baby, you know, she won't fucking answer the question. Right. Okay. So there's this. Okay. So let's get to that. There's this fucking incredible blog called

that statement dash analysis.blogspot, which I've been to before just to read. I read John Benet Ramsey, the Patsy Ramsey 911 call analysis. This guy's really fucking good at it. And it's super cool. He examines the entire call and finds a bunch of discrepancies that leads to him thinking that she's actually knows more than she's saying. So a couple of things is that she's more concerned with explaining what happened than with the fact that her sons are dying. So she keeps coming to conclusions about they came in, how did they get in? Why would anyone do this? It's inconsistent. She can't keep her pronouns or articles straight, which this guy statement analysis explains is very weird, such as he says stuff like them and then calls them him and then calls them they,

then someone, then some man, it's never like him. It's never always him or always a certain person talking about the guy that broke in. Yeah, it's always a different pronoun, which I've done very or article. It's very interesting. And in the call, she establishes her alibi for the fact that so the 911 caller says, Darlie says that there was a knife in the utility exit. And the 911 caller says, okay, leave it there. Don't touch it. And Darlie says, I already grabbed it. And then she says, God, I bet we could have gotten prints from that maybe. What? But she's having a panic attack. She's panicking while she does that. But I already grabbed it. I already grabbed it and like establishing the fact and then goes back to it later.

But she, but sorry, in that panic also says we could have gotten prints off of it. Back to it. I can't believe I grabbed the knife reminding you. I bet we could have gotten prints off of that. But imagine someone having hysterical Patsy Ramsey breakdown during that. Imagine your children bleeding in front of you and you're talking about where you, that you could have or couldn't have gotten prints. She also says like, I bet, I bet this happened. Like she's establishing, she's trying to convince the 911 operator of what happened. And her husband too. So, so she's trying to convince her husband what happened while he's administering CPR to his kids. Instead of asking how they are, she keeps saying, Darin,

this thing happened. Can you believe this happened? Someone broke in, Darin, they broke in. Like, she's trying to convince him of it. She's talking about the crime as opposed to, like the criminal as opposed to the result. What happened as opposed to, are they okay? Are they alive? What's happening at this moment? And he says the mother accepts the children's death even while they're still breathing saying they're dead. They're dead. My children are dead. And one of them is dead. One of them is still breathing. I think he's giving him CPR. And I think he's, he's like, they can tell that he's still alive. So she keeps acknowledging their death. And he was saying the guy from this website is saying that's, you know, parents won't acknowledge

their children's death for even when saying, you know, your kid passed away. No, no, no, it didn't happen. I don't believe this can't be true. Like that's, that's a normal parental. Sorry. I feel like I've seen that on some shows or whatever people, how they know it's fake on their 911 call is that exact thing of when you're on the call, it's always about the hope and help and, and fixing it, getting it done. Get here quicker. Why aren't they here yet? Exactly. As opposed to like, let's all on this call decide this is over. Yeah. She keeps yelling, they're dead, they're dead. Okay. And then here's the other thing about it. So she keeps saying she keeps calling her kids by different things. So it depends on how she's,

how she's saying they are that she changes. So at one point she can say they're dead. My babies are dead. And then when they're still alive, they're called the boys or my children changes depending on what state she's, she's saying they're in. So it's never my babies, it's never the boys, never my children. It's always dependent on my babies are dead. Period. There's never, my children are dead. It's always my babies. Then the children, why would they attack the children? They're still, you know, it's, it's just like, like she's almost got written her lies the certain way. It's not even, it's something rehearsed, but it's also the way, like the way someone who was legitimately reacting wouldn't

say those things. They wouldn't stick to it. They would stick to it. Or they would. My babies or my children, they would stick to one of the whole time. Yeah, I got her. Yeah. And she can't keep the chronology of her story consistent. Things keep fucking changing like them, him, someone, those things are not, those are supposed to say the same the whole time. Um, and because she's doing the whole thing of like, this is, this must have been what happened. This, uh, they did this, they did that, that she has intimate knowledge of the killer's intentions and thoughts. Why would they do this, you know, and explaining it? Crazy. How long was this fucking 911 call? It's like nine minutes and it's like five and a half

minutes. Did you listen to the whole thing? Uh-huh. Oh, dude. Doesn't do nothing for me, especially when I know I think they're not. Yeah. That's even worse when they're lying. I know. No, it's not worse to me. I don't want to hear if someone's genuine grief. Oh, that's true. But it's almost like, well, anyway, God, what? It makes me think of that Sherry Rasmussen thing. I was telling me about those on casefile. It's amazing episode. I think it's like three or four case files ago. And if you haven't listened to it, you have to go listen to it, but it's this woman who was a cop. Right. So killed her. She was obsessed with this boyfriend who didn't basically want her. She ended up killing his wife and then

hiding out, like basically making sure she would never get caught for years for years. And then they finally traced it back to her and they have the entire interrogation, which she doesn't think is an interrogation. And they're telling her is not one. They just need to ask her a couple questions. And you basically listened to her lie, lie, lie. And then it slowly breaks down. And like, I had to turn it off because she listening to a person who still thinks that they're lying and getting away with it. They're smarter than the person who when it's blatantly obvious. It's just like painfully obvious. And they're playing the cops are playing stupid. Like they never believe stupid. Yeah. So they're going, they're just basically saying, listen, we just need this

information. She'd be like, I don't know. Like she did it the same way every time where she would do this fakey stutter. Yeah, painful. That's why I love reading the line for line here. Like this guy was like, this thing they just said those two little like he'll highlight I instead of me or you know what I mean? Like that's shit that you just don't pay attention to. I fucking love that stuff. Like cause you can't control it in the moment. Right. Because a normal person and they've and this person studied, you know, so many normal, uh, true 911 calls and confessions that here's what people say when they're legitimately going through grief and freaking the fuck out. Yeah. You don't say these other things. And here's how you know they're lying. So I mean,

we know the ones that are lying and he brings up examples of them a lot of the ones that are like, it's like this one that is untrue that is proven to be untrue. I don't know. I think it's fucking awesome. It is. It's fascinating. Um, okay. And here's my favorite part. This is the last thing I'll say about it. She also talks about how he says she also talks about how the knife is quote, the knife was quote, lying in the garage, like laying in the garage. And then he says when an inanimate object is reported to be lying, standing, sitting, et cetera, the passive language suggests the subject placed it there. Knives cannot quote lie down nor stand nor sit. So in the language is employed, it is a verbal sign that that the speaker or the subject is responsible for the

placement. This is commonly seen in murder weapons and in drugs as in the drugs were sitting on the cabinet as an example. And it is like, you think of it, it's like, it was doing this thing away for me that I had nothing to do with the drugs were just sitting on the cabinet instead of the drugs were on the cabinet. Looking for a better cooking routine with meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled Hello Fresh has you covered. Hello Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year. Hello Fresh meals are convenient, seasonal and delicious. Stay cozy all winter long with classic comfort foods available weekly. Why stop with just dinner? Now you can enjoy Hello Fresh's expanded menu of quick lunch solutions,

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Even The Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even The Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. So it's basically like in their mind, they're watching themselves,

put it on the ground, whether it's like it's lying on the ground, or they're purposely distancing or saying what they would have seen if they weren't part of it, if they weren't involved. I saw a knife lying on the ground. Well, it's like, if you weren't involved in that, you would just see a knife on the ground, a knife on the ground. Yeah. That's fast. Isn't that interesting? Yes. That's like that. Do you ever see that fucking Tim Roth TV show where it was all about catching, lying and micro expressions and all that stuff? No, but I knew I would like that every time I heard about it. Yes. It was that's what that show was like. Light of me. All like eyes and what lie to me. Right. Yes. It's like right now. Don't tell me. Try it. That that and you look up to you look up one

direction when you're telling the truth remembering and you look up the other when you're lying. I can never remember which one. I can't be there. I don't know. But then you end up looking at every single every single person's like blink or like her eyelash moved. Yes. Is she lying? It doesn't. I think those ones don't apply to everything, but language. Yeah. It makes more sense. You can't control it as well. Yeah. Because you distance yourself from things by saying certain things. And you and it's it's not rehearsed in that you read a script and said, okay, here's what I'm going to say. But it's like, and this he keeps saying that when you're when you're going from memory, from legitimate memory, you don't stop to say these inconsistencies.

You know, I fucking love it. You don't stop to go. We could have gotten prints off. Right. Just blatantly fucking or at that point, it's like, it doesn't matter that you're you telling me over and over again that someone broke into your house and came at you doesn't matter what matters is getting someone over there right away. Like you don't need it. The 911 operator doesn't need to know that. You say it once and that's all the information they need to know. Yeah. And they said, like, when they when they say 911, what is your emergency? It's so there that doesn't have to be any greeting and me, you know, pretenses, you just fucking say what your emergency is. And she started with a man came into my house. This happened. I got my throat is

slit or whatever. And my baby's got stabbed. Like she doesn't even start get someone over here right now. My children are dying. Oh, you know, like you don't need this isn't the trial. You don't you're not here to tell the story of what just happened, which you clearly made up. What should be your immediate action is to save my fucking baby yet someone fucking as soon as possible. Yeah. All right. So remember Tom Bevel? I sure do. I put a post it note on the mental idea of him. I saw that. So he stated that the blood stains on her Victoria's Secret Night shirt were quote consistent with cast off blood, blah, blah, blah. He says that cast off stains on the front indicate that she could not have been lying on the couch

when the sons were attacked. And that the crime scene was staged because of that. So Tom Bevel is the dude who is being taken to court and has proven that a bunch of the the blood spatter analysis that he testified to and got people fucking found guilty for a lot of that is incorrect and bunk science. He's the one that made it up right like he basically became a blood spatter expert right on his own declaration. Yeah. And I don't even know if he thinks that he made it up. It's almost like he just seems like a cocky son of a bitch who was like, here's what happens and believed it and became this big time, you know, prosecuting witness and fucking loved it and kept talking about it. Now he's the guy from the staircase, right? Yeah. Yeah. That basically

like at the end, they're just like all of this is yeah thrown out. Well, it's so many so much of that evidence like remember we're talking about the hair evidence. That's not really conclusive. The blood spatter evidence, all this shit is like proving to be bullshit. All right. So there's evidence to suggest that she wasn't the killer. This article in Texas Monthly by skip Hollensworth. Oh, it's got the best name. So several neighbors told police that they had noticed a dark car slowly cruising through the area in the weeks before the crime and one even said that the car occasionally stopped near their house, the Reuters, the Reuters house. And that a private and guest skater working for Darlie's appellate attorney says that

Darin, her husband admitted that in the spring of 96 when his business was in trouble and he was $22,000 in debt, he asked Darlie's stepfather if he knew anyone who might break into the family's house as part of an insurance scam. What the fuck? I know. He admitted this to the reporter, Skip Hollensworth, who wrote an article about it and said that he confessed to the scheme, that this was true. He asked someone to break into their house to steal shit. So they could make money. So they could get the insurance money off the items he stole, right? Which is like different than having someone killed, but it's not far from it. Well, it's yes, it's the willingness to break the law so you can get your ass out of whatever

financial problem you're in. And it's knowing that you can hire someone to do a deed for you so that you can get insurance money. And you're dumb enough to tell people. Which makes me think if you're dumb enough to tell the father of your wife who ends up getting her throat slit, that seems too, that doesn't seem, that doesn't seem cagey enough to me too. I don't know. Oh, on his part? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyways, he says that he confessed, he had discussed it with other people in town. He says there's a possibility. I said the same thing in conversation with people that worked around me. I don't remember what I said, but there's a strong possibility that was on my mind. In conversation, I could have said

that. So he is, he is saying that like, maybe he mentioned to someone that he wanted insurance money. So maybe someone broke in and killed his children and tried to kill his wife. So he, you know, it's like, just, I don't know, it's so fucking weird. But so they say his guilt, his, it would have been financial trouble. That was his motive. And he had a 250,000 policy, life insurance policy on Darley. So the main motive was to kill her. Why would he kill, why would they kill the children though? Whatever. But he, but Darren had an 800,000 adult life insurance policy on him. So who's to say that if Darley was in, had done it, why wouldn't she have just killed the husband? Why would she kill her two children? It's fucking

confusing. And the policies on the kids was really low. So it wasn't like they were the main, the main motive. He failed the polygraph test and it's shown to be lying to four questions. The questions were, was he involved in any plan to commit a crime at his house on June 6, 1996? Did he stab Darley? Did he know who planted the sock in the alley and could he name the person who starved, who stabbed Darley? So he failed those four questions. And, but part of the bargain that the high profile lawyers that cost $94,000 to hire for Darley was that they would agree to, to not go with the defense attorney, original defense attorney's strategy, which was to raise reasonable doubt for Darley by casting suspicion on the husband. So they were like,

we'll be, we'll represent you or you can, we'll pay you, but you can't suggest that the husband did it. And she's like, we're, so she, Darley is convicted of murdering Damon and only one kid. And on February 4th, 97, she sentenced to death by lethal injection. Sorry, really quick. Did the second kid live? No, they both died. Okay. Okay. He was just still alive on that call. Right. For some reason, it's just when children are a child, I don't understand. It's just so confounding. A juror is later expressed regret saying that there were photos of her injuries that never were shown during the trial and that she felt coerced by other jurors to find Darley guilty. The court reporter made 33,000, 3300 mistakes in the transcript, which is

no, as a court reporter, no, never a court student. Oh, well, let's do someone that knows a little bit about it. You would have never passed your class. You would never become a court reporter if you made that many mistakes. That's an insane amount. Like, that's insane. Those people have to be like, because it's, it's what, what they're writing becomes like, it's the only, it's the only, uh, evidence of what happened in that courtroom. Yeah. So yeah, that's, that should be a mistrial alone. What was she doing? Or he, I don't know. High as fuck. Um, she acknowledged that she had lied to cover what she feared was a reverse, an irreversible error that would have gotten, um, wrote, gotten Darley a new trial. So she, she made these many mistakes and she lied

about it. Because she didn't want her to get a new trial? Because she didn't want to get in trouble. Oh, oh. And she loses, she lost her license. But she, I think that's fair. Yeah. But she was granted immunity from prosecution by the DA's office, which would have had to, which would have, if she had been, if she had spoken about it, they would have gotten a new trial for, uh, Darley. So it's all fucked up. That alone fucking cares. Um, so I watched like the first jailhouse interview of Darley and she has that creepy little girl voice of like, I didn't like the weird little girl voice of like, something is not right with your voice. Oh yeah. No, I was just thinking Maria Bamford has a joke. The higher your voice, the angrier you are. Yeah. Yeah. Maria Bamford could

play this chick really well. I bet she could. Like she looks like our friend, Gwyneth McCarthy. Oh, wow. Like pretty blonde, looks all American, and then just has this little voice where she's just trying really hard. And it's just so creepy because the interviewer, the woman, the news reporter is female. And the way Darley is talking to her is just like very, it just seems creepy. It's just not right. But I know is not a reason why someone killed someone. What's the vibe though? The vibe is not understanding that, that you seem off like the sociopath like, here's what empathy looks like. And I'm trying to do that. And I must be so believable. Oh, so like, what? Overly or under? Overly, not even overly, just not authentic. She's not overdoing it. It just

doesn't seem authentic. Which I will fucking take back if she's found innocent. Little girl voice. Oh, and at the end of the interview, she asks to sing a hymn she used to sing to her sons. And she sings it straight to the camera. No, looking for Lauren Lee with her fucking furrowed brow. And she does all the like Christina Aguilera highs and lows. Not very well, but does the like, you know, like, no, yeah, it's fucking weird. Straight to camera. Trying to look sad. That's there you go. And that's all I need. Do you know what I find weird too? And this could just be me being an atheist is like, when people are like, well, it's okay, I'm going to see them in heaven. I'm fine. Like they're fine with someone dying. Because they're,

they think they're going to see them soon, which is like, if that's what you believe, fine, but you should still be mourning the fact that they're dead. And they died horrifically. You shouldn't be like, it's fine. I'm going to see them one day. Also, if you're the mother, yeah, like, like any mother, even if their children are full grown, if the children die before the mother, the mother is fucking ruined. Broken. There's no time to sing a goddamn song. And the reporter in the show says, she asked to sing a song that she like, she can, you can tell by the way she says like, she didn't just let it play out with her singing. She voice over it. Um, she asked us like, and she asked us to do this. Wait, is it local or is it like a 2020?

It's like a 2020, but it's like late nineties. The other thing is all these people online and there's all these like, darling, darling's innocent, darling's not innocent. And everyone goes to the silly string at the, at the graveyard and how fucking crazy that is. And she's laughing and chewing gum. And every single time that someone mentions that says, well, you don't know how someone grieves for their, like that's the argument for everything. Like you can't read into that at all because you don't know how you'd grieve and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, that's true for the night of, and you're in shock and you don't cry in hysterics. But eight days later and you're fucking laughing and don't have a sign of fucking, you look really pretty and the

news vans are there and they're supposed to be there. And you're, you're celebrating. You're doing a show is what you're doing. You're not, you're a quote celebrating. Well, yeah, the idea of like, we're going to celebrate his life even though it just ended. That doesn't happen for 10 years. Then 10 years later, like we're going to celebrate his life. We're going to let some balloons go, right? Whatever the fuck. Yes. It's not like laughter and kind of joy. Also, all of that indicates a drug or a drink of some kind because there's a bit of separation of like to me, that's what that sounds like. It reminds me of, remember in the, in the, that fucking horrible case. No, you're not. Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me. The,

the whatever three, the boys. Yes. Remember that one where the, the one mother, she, like once they have to go, she starts getting interviewed and she's clearly fucked up. She's like drunk and on pills. And she's like collapsing. Yes. Like it's that kind of thing where that, it makes perfect sense. Yeah. Like I don't expect people to grieve correctly or do anything. And I do expect them to take something to medicate themselves. They don't have to sit in that horrible shit. And you understand denial being like, I'm not crying in it because I don't understand. I'm out of hospital around strangers and you're telling me like this isn't kick. I'm not at home looking at my children's clothing. You know, I'm not acknowledging this. This doesn't make

any sense right now. Yeah. You're just in this nightmare world. Right. All of that is fine. Right. But it doesn't have an underpinning of celebration and laughter. Totally. It has an underpinning of like when you can, when someone's like a tragic drunk and you're, you're like, Oh no, they're on the verge of tears, but they're like, it's fine. Everything's fine. Whatever. Well, the things that remind me, okay, so this happened in June of 96, December of 96 is when fucking Jean Benet happened. And there are really a lot of similarities. Jean Patsy Ramsey going on camera and crying about my babies, which are my baby, hold your babies close, same kind of wording and full face of makeup looks fucking put together as shit is on it,

already doing PR. Her lawyers already like get in there and do some PR and like clean the shit up. I mean, no, don't, don't. I, I can't imagine, first of all, I can't imagine what it would be like to have a child cause it's so god named stressful. How you would do anything. Like if I lost a child and then they were like, you have to go talk on TV. I'd be like, I will murder you. Like get the fuck away from me. When one of these two little fucking sweet before you beings that are hanging out with me right now, my cats are not whatever that could be taken in a lot of ways. I will fucking, I will be a wreck when these two die for the rest of my fucking life and they're not my children. Right. I don't, it doesn't make any sense to me. So I

think what happened is that Darlie and Darren planned something together. There's no way that he was just oblivious to all of that. No way, right? Not if he was already asking people if he could make money by getting his house robbed. He knows insurance scams. Yeah. He knows what's going on. Her deep neck wound. I don't think she could have done herself, but you know, it could have someone else who's fucking trying to make it look that way. But who stabs their own children? Maybe the intruder they paid to come in and do it can. They're not their own children. But that's not their own children. What do you mean? I think they did hire someone to come in. But they're hiring someone to kill their own children. You're not saying it's not their

children. You're saying it's not the intruder stuff. It's not the intruder children. And that maybe Darlie was the only intended victim and something went wrong. Oh, because there's so many ways she could have covered it up. She could have just not been sleeping downstairs that night. You know what I mean? Like why was, because the kids were sleeping downstairs. They were doing that on a regular basis. It was summer. They watched TV late. They could have, she could have just gone to bed and let the kids sleep downstairs if she really didn't. Yeah. Why did she have to be in the mix at all? Right. Yeah. And why do you think? Why what? Why do you think she had to be in the mix at all? That doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe she, maybe she legitimately has nothing

to do with it. And Darren is the only one involved. Maybe it's some guy who worked for him and was like, I'm going to do this and then he's going to owe me money. And they had nothing to do with it. I don't think that's true because there's no other evidence. I mean, whatever, fuck, I've been going on too long. I'm sorry. It's just, it's bonkers. No, it's fascinating. Well, also if she, okay, then, then yeah, flip it around. If she, if he did attack her and almost killed her and killed her children, then all that other stuff, did she just fucking snap and like knowing if she, was she in on it, but then didn't think she was going to get attacked and went crazy? Maybe. Or did she realize, I mean, that's, but the thing that they said too is that

mothers who kill their children drown them, poison them, suffocate them. Don't manically stab your own child. Stabbing is fucking awful and intense and like the personal one, especially when she's never had a history. I mean, aside from postpartum depression, which I think fucking everyone gets every mother gets. And, you know, she's freaking out because they don't have any money. So she's stressed, but you don't know, you don't go from no mental issues like Andrea Yates, who had them, who kept trying to fucking get help for that. But there is like the Diane Downs, which is she, she shot, which is different, but close at close range. Her three children, right? That's even shooting and stabbing fucking

light years when it comes to your children. Don't you think? I mean, we can say this because we don't have kids. So we don't, well, how the fuck, A, how the fuck would we know at all? B, I agree with you in that stabbing is like, if it was once, if each one was stabbed once in the chest and they both died, throat slit, as much as I hate to say it's like, you know, you're going to, but here's what I didn't say is that one of the kids was stabbed on the ground. They were on the ground through to the carpet four times. Like it was not like, you know, it's like a fucking angry stabbing. I know what happened. I think it was an intruder,

but I don't think that they're not involved. But she's the one that went to jail and he did not death penalty. So she's still on death row? Yeah. And he is never, he's living with the baby who's now older, obviously. Because this was from the 90s. 96. Fuck. Yeah, dude. And the whole family is behind her. They all don't think she did it. Like his family ever, no one thinks she did it. I mean, go watch, go watch her interviews and tell me what you think and go watch the video of her fucking spraying silly string and no, I've seen it chomping gun. I saw that video, like right after it happened and I can still replay it in my head now at this moment. The

silly string is so aggressive. It's like, even if you just was the balloons, the silly string is like, if you fucking spread me a silly string out of nowhere, I would be pissed off. Yes. It's too strong. Yeah. It's like, it's, it's very, um, it's kind of like some pranks where it's like actually very aggressive. Look how stupid you look. You're getting a silly string in the face because it's not like too, too. It's like, it's like a weird attack. And she's doing it like that to us, to a grave stone, to a grave stone laughing while she's doing it like hi guys, isn't this I introduced me to the person. I 100% agree with the people that are like, you don't know how other people grieve 100%. I 100% believe if you have a child die,

you get to take every drug you want, get to drink all the drinks in the world, do whatever the fuck you want. And it might make you act super weird, but there would still not be an element of celebration, especially because all of those things have a depressive quality to them. Alcohol is a depressant. I mean, those pills would be depressants. Everyone's parent, when I die, when I'm 85, I want you to have a party and celebrate my life. And it's like, okay, dad, nobody fucking does that. Yeah. Even your father had like an amazing life. You're not going to be like, let's have a party, let the song. No, you're all fucking grieving. But, but, and even if you're like, like my mom's funeral,

there was lots of laughing because she was super funny, right? But people were fucking sobbing. You can, you can entertain the complexity of an emotional situation like that. A child being stabbed to death by someone you're purporting to not by some psychopath that you don't know who it is that is on the fucking loose. Yeah, you don't, you don't have a birthday party at the grave site. You simply do not. You can go to the grave site and grieve, but you also don't call the fucking news vans and tell them you're there because they weren't just hanging out there. It's like when celebrities are like, oh, we got caught having a date at fucking Spago. It's like, no, your publicist calls and says, so and so is going to be at Spago. So you think she called

news vans? I can't imagine. And maybe they followed her there. I don't know. Like you don't, there's a reason they were there. Yes, that's right. That's right. They thought, and maybe it could have been like the singing where she thought this will look good on tape for me because she doesn't understand human emotion and what it's supposed to look like. And so here's what it's supposed to look like. We're celebrating their life. Like most normal people who have fucking real emotions are like, like, look at this him. I used to sing to my babies at night, but look at what a great singer I am. Yeah, is really what it's saying. Right. And look how sad I look. Stephen, why are you laughing right now? This isn't funny. It's funny. It's just, it's so gross. Yeah, it's insanely gross. It's

like, can I sing a song? Yeah. And that the even the newscaster or the news woman was like, no, I'm telling you that she asked to do this because this is fucking weird. Yeah, I would want to get on tape. You'd be like, make sure everyone understands we didn't pre produce or lead her into this. This was her idea. Totally. And also that that is a dividing line because it's like, this is, this is a person who is thinking of themselves and what they seem like more than anything else. What they think a mom should do. I want to sing this song. It's the song I sing to my children. So she's like, look at this thing I did. I did for my children. That's right. Not, you know, it's, it's her first. It's the crazy narcissism.

You think your kids are really stoked to hear the song every night about Jesus? No, they want to fuck. Do you want to sing the fucking itsy bitsy spider? Like that's what your fucking little five year old kid was into. Not your fucking him of you singing like Christina Aguilera, man. It's also that makes me think of the Diane Downs video where she in showing the guy started laughing and flirting with the guy she was the reporter she was supposed to be showing it to. Yeah. It's the creepiest video. Okay. Here we go. That was really long. I'm sorry. No, no, no, it was good. I liked it. Okay. Oh, last thing. Yeah. Her prison job is cross stitching baby blankets that are later sold to state prison employees. Baby blankets she cross

stitches. Can you imagine is someone being sarcastic in the jail job for this job? Or is she, is she, is that somehow supposed to be her fix? She's saying maybe she's telling people that, but it's not true. They trust me enough to make their baby blankets. But really, it's like, I also want to know about that neck. It's neck wound, right? I mean, there's photos of it. And it, you can't tell because it's covered up by like bandages, but it looks, I don't, I can't tell, but from what I read about it, it's deep. Fucking crazy. Yeah. Also, because most of those people just, they do something to the opposite arm. And it was on both sides of her body that she got hit, which is not normal. He was in it. He did it to her. She wasn't supposed

to do it as deep maybe. Fuck man. When do we find out? What? If that really happened? What happened? Tomorrow. Oh good. You call me? Yeah. Okay. We'll go, go to our Twitter and we're gonna have, we're gonna be the only ones who know and we're gonna, I mean that it is like cut to 40 years later. It's just all these, that's how all these are. And maybe that's part of the draw. It's just that thing of like this long real life mystery. And you can like entertain all these different possibilities because you don't want to be like, this is what happened and I know it. Right. Cause you can't be who fucking knows who knows, but also you know a little like, like that thing of like analyzing language and stuff. And it's been 20 years. Can you

fucking believe that? So, you know, I read conflicting comments on every fucking thing of like, this happened, this happened. I'm like, I never read anything about fingerprints anywhere else. What are you fucking talking about? And then you have to go down that. That's just like, was there any new stuff? Just little things. DNA. They're going to do DNA testing on this fingerprint. Like, I don't know, but nothing is been concluded too. It is pretty fascinating that that guy, that the blood spatter expert was in this case. Right. Specifically him. How many, what did he just travel around the country fucking up murder cases? It sounds like it's all right. Piece of shit.

Well, are you ready for this one? Always. This is a story that I heard when I first moved to Los Angeles. Um, this is kind of like a popular old timey Hollywood, like rumor story, which is the fatty are our buckle rape and murder case. Have you ever heard that one? Yeah, that's fine, but I don't know a ton of facts about it. Okay. Same here. That's why I looked into it, which is makes it fascinating because the only thing I ever knew for a really long time was fatty our buckle was a silent film star, like around the time of Charlie Chaplin and Harold Lloyd. Um, and he was, uh, and he, that he raped and killed a girl and that he raped her with a, um, like a broken bottle. Right. Did you hear that too? Yeah. Okay. That's like, yeah. So

that's, that's the only thing I knew that he was a huge star. And then after that, his reputation, of course, was ruined and you never heard from him again. So here's the real story. Uh, and it's pretty amazing. So fatty are buckle when he was eight years old, um, we're just going to start from the beginning as if we don't know anything and we don't know any of that, any, any of those stories. Got it. Let's just tell it like that. Okay. Because that's what the very aggressive British narrator of this fatty are buckle crimes and misdemeanors or some fucking show that I watched. He was just like, and none of it's true. And he's just like really a defensive of fatty are buckle. Um, so, but he was basically like, put it all out of your mind.

Yeah. So stop thinking, stop thinking about it. Okay. So in 1895, um, fatty are buckle was a kid hanging around the back door of a theater and a producer walks by and sees him and grabs him and says, do you want to be in a play because they needed a kid to play an eight year old and he does it and he's great. And he ends up being in every production that they did at that theater that year. He was a magician's assistant. He went from it was everything from being a magician's assistant to having a small part in a Victorian drama. So he was like made for the theater. Yeah. Um, then four years later, his mother dies and his father abandons him. So he just starts having to work, um, just by himself as a young teen, he works in a hotel and his coworkers one day over

here, him singing and they encourage him to enter a talent contest and he does and he wins it. And that's how he gets into vaudeville. So this was like right at that time was the very beginning of silent movies. This is when all of Los Angeles was orange groves and then like three basically film studios, one of which was max senate's key, um, keystone films and max senate's keystone films was like huge and that's, they would just go basically take people out of vaudeville and start making movies of them crazy. So like, if you see, um, you know, very few people have seen that much of fatty art buckle, but like, if you see any, and I highly recommend that you do it, like WC field started in vaudeville also. And when you, when you start in vaudeville

and you work in vaudeville, you can, you have to be able to do this crazy shit. So it's like, you have to be an acrobat and you have to like do sleight of hand and you have to kind of learn all the things so that the, you can be any act basically, like if you're a comedian back then, you kind of had to be much more talented than you have to be now. The plane of the back of the room. Right. And so like, I mean, this is, I, uh, I only saw the clips that they had in this documentary of fatty art buckle, but he was like fat, big and fat, but he was super, um, graceful and he could like kind of do anything. And he, it was of course a lot of physical comedy, but he would do these really funny things. Like he would do a thing and trip and then he would

recover and do almost like a ballerina mode. So it was, I laughed out loud during this documentary. I love it. Um, and it also reminds me of like, there's some WC fields, short films, and it just shows what his vaudeville act was. And he could do a thing where he would take his hat off that it was like a set, like a living room. He'd walk in the door, take his hat off, throw it across the room and it would go on to the hat rack. I've seen that. It's amazing. It's real. There's no, it's him. That's what he would do at vaudeville. So it was all, it was all versions of juggling. They had, it was just like ways that they could juggle things like a hand and all this shit. Yeah, exactly. Um, and so, uh, basically they pull him out of vaudeville. He starts

making short films for max senate and he is basically kind of the fat guy foil for like Charlie Chaplin. Um, he, he becomes the most popular comedian that make any of these films. People love him. And then he started, they let him start directing his own. Um, he hired, I believe he's the first person to hire, I shouldn't say first person, but he's one of the earliest people to work with and hire, um, hereloid and Buster Keaton. Like, but he, Buster Keaton worked under him for a while. I was such a crush on Buster Keaton. Buster Keaton is fucking amazing. So hot. And the big guys. Yes. Yeah. And legitimately amazing.

Yeah. And no, I mean, incredible. Yeah. And also hot. And well, cause like he did all those fucking stunts. Yeah. Like he did them. Yeah. Um, they actually showed a clip of a movie that was a very early Fadi Arbuckle movie and in it, it was called backstage, I believe, and it was about these people that were like, it was like a silent film about a comedy about life in the theater, but there's a part where he's sitting there, um, serenading a girl and the how the front of the house falls down over him. Yeah. That basically later on, Charlie Chaplin made famous and got super famous for, and it was basically like of Fadi Arbuckle. So it's sorry. It's a little bit like he was one of the original

yeah, original Kings of comedy. Um, he started the tour. That was his idea. Um, so he becomes huge at max Senate studios or Keystone studios. Um, and he starts making a bunch of movies, short movies with Mabel Norman, who was a famous actress of the time. And the two of them got just crazy popular. They, it was like, it was super cute. They were like husband and wife, and then they would, it would just be these little comedic kind of vignettes. Um, and they got so popular. Um, that they were asked in 1915, they were asked to go to, it was called the world's something fair in San Francisco. So I don't know if it was the world's fair, the official one or like a specific fair for something. Yes. But they basically, um, silent film was becoming this huge business.

The film industry was like exploding and the PR industry around the film industry was exploding. So like podcasts. Exactly. You're finally figuring it out. They were like, what, we are the new Mabel Norman and Fadi Arbuckle. Yeah. Do not say here's who your Mabel Arbuckle and Fadi Norman. Nice, nice cover. Fair, fair, very fair. Um, so, uh, by the summer of 1921, um, he, he had moved to Paramount Pictures. So I'm sure there was some kind of like, and I think this might, I don't know, in, I have theories about this. He moved from Max Senate Studios to Paramount Pictures and he got paid a million dollars a year in that money that time. Yes. Holy fuck balls. That is crazy. It's crazy. He signed a contract for $3 million, a three year contract

for $3 million to make. We got one of those right now in this. No, I know. It's like, and back, this was fucking 1920. Like this was the Great Depression, essentially, or well 10 years before. Yeah. But still like bananas money. It was like back when people would be like, brother, can you spare a dime? And that was like a meaningful amount of money. Yeah. So, um, penny candy, he button, button candy, the most useless candy with pieces of paper stuck on it that has ever been invented. Um, so that contract was for him to star in 18 silent films in three years. Um, he, uh, he just made a movie called Crazy to Mary. Um, tell me about it. Right. And it was, um, playing in theaters across the country. And he had, uh, I think he had

just finished six feature length films in seven months. Can you fucking imagine? Yeah, that's bullshit. That's like, um, you make a full on movie a month and then he's like, guys, I'm tired. Let's go on vacation. Take a nap, bro. Yeah. So he's, that was his plan. So him and two of his friends decide they're going to drive up to San Francisco to have like a weekend of fun. Do you know how long, I'm sorry, how long it would take to drive to San Francisco back then? Oh, fucking millions, a lot of money. It would take you 14 and a half hours to drive to San Francisco. If that, like, and there would be no gas, you'd have to bring gas with you. I bet. Wind your car up. Did they do that so then? That's right. It would take you 29 hours to get up there.

20 wines. It would take you so much energy. All right. So there was no five back then. No, there's no five for you. You were on that one the whole time. Okay. Um, in the days leading up to this weekend, um, Fadi Arbuckle was not in the best of moods because, um, he was having his Pierce Arrow automobile serviced, uh, when he sat down on an acid soaked rag at the garage and the acid burned through his pants to his buttocks, causing second degree burns. And he, I don't know. I get that's something that they did in the 20s. Very common acid rags were everywhere. Um, so he wanted to cancel the trip, but his friend, um, what's this guy's name at Al Fishback. The fuck is his name? Where is it? Somebody Fishback. I'll find it.

Said, no, we got to go. It's going to be fun. We've already planned it, whatever. My butt is burning. I have to sit for 29 hours. We know he did. He secured his friend Fishback just, just secured a rubber padded ring for Arbuckle to sit on. Can you secure a guffuck yourself? For me to sit on, for me to sit on, they made the drive up the coast to the St. Francis Hotel in San Francisco. Is that nice to be been there? Very fancy. Um, has the best like lobby. It's the one that's on union square at Christmas time. They have a humongous Christmas tree and they have a great bar. I want to go. We should totally go. We're going to Oakland. We have no time. We do not jump on that bar to go sit in the bar at the St. Francis for three minutes. Bye everybody.

But it's the kind of place that like, I don't know what the style is. I would guess Art Deco, Georgian, Georgian, but it's the ceilings are so high and it's so gorgeous. Yeah. I love that shit. Um, there's a lot of good spots. So that's where they are. Okay. They've got, so they have two rooms that are joined to a reception suite. Jesus. So basically a party room in the center, two rooms off the side. That's what we have booked for our trip. Is that how we're doing at the whole time? Okay. And then we were going to pick people. You can come to the party suite. You can sit in the reception room, but you can't come into the suite. You have to earn your way into the suite. Okay. So fishback arranged everything. Now it's prohibition era. Okay. So there's no,

uh, legally, right? There's no liquor. Sure. But San Francisco is known as an open city, which meant there's fucking liquor everywhere. Tea cups abound. That's right. Go San Francisco, go. So they had, um, fishback has arranged the liquor to be delivered to the hotel room. And on Labor Day, September 5th, 1921, Fadi Arbuckle awakes to find that there are many uninvited guests that are at least uninvited from him in the reception room. How annoying. So, uh, and he also has a bunch of work to do. And I guess he was, he was up there, like they were going to have fun, but he also, I guess had a meeting. Yeah. So, um, uh, uh, he was walking around in his pajamas when he saw that like the first, basically the first, um, thing that happened

was his friends, it's like, I want to say I'll fishback. And there's another guy named Lowe's, Lowe Lohman or something like that. Allen Lowe fishback woman. Um, so they went out and when they came back, they were like, we just saw, um, that actress, uh, it was a woman named Victoria Rap. And they're like, we just saw her in the hotel of a different in the lobby of a different hotel. So we're going to bring her over here. And, um, uh, so she comes over a couple other people, a woman named Maud Delmont shows up after a little while. Now, Maud Delmont, um, had a very bad reputation. She was known as, uh, there's one guy in the documentary. He said she'd basically been arrested for everything except murder. So she was known as a, um, a madam. She was known

as a blackmailer. She was, she had been arrested a bunch of time for fraud. This all sounds awesome. Right. It feels like she's in charge of her fucking destiny. Um, a couple people's destinies, actually. So she shows up after hope. I can't see any of these names anymore. My eyes are going insane. Um, it's, I don't want to say Victoria. Anyway, the young pretty actress shows up, Maud shows up after then a couple other people show up. It turns into a party. Fadi, our buckle is basically like, I can't fight this anymore, whatever. And he starts drinking too. So they're all drinking. And at one point, um, one of his friends who started the party, um, and Maud Delmont go into one of the adjacent bedrooms bathrooms and they're in there for a while. Um, and, and while

they're in there and everybody else is partying, um, Virginia Rapp, who's been drinking with everybody and hanging out and having a good time, gets nauseous and gets feel sick. So she goes into she goes into that adjacent bedroom to go into the bathroom to get sick, but they're in there and they tell her to go into the other bathroom. So she goes into what is basically Fadi Arbuckle's bedroom and she gets sick in that bathroom. So Fadi Arbuckle realizes he has to go to this meeting. So he goes in to take a shower, to shave and shower or whatever, to, to get ready for the meeting. And he finds Virginia on the floor in his bathroom and he assumes that she's just drunk and she can't handle her liquor. Um, and so he gets her up off the floor and puts her on the

bed and then he goes into the bathroom, shuts the door, takes a shower, shaves, takes like 10 minutes in there and gets ready. And when he comes out, he sees that she's gotten sick again on the bed. So at that point, he goes out into the party and says, pardon me, says, um, I think this girl is actually really sick. We should call a doctor, call somebody. Um, so they call a doctor, a doctor shows up and a little while later, a female nurse shows up. Um, they, you know, I was going to say inspect her, they look at, you know, give her the once over. Right. What's the word I'm looking for? What are we looking for? It's not inspect, not the once over. It's not inspect and examine, examine, they examine her, they examine her. There's, she's not, she, there's nothing wrong

with her physically. She has no bruises on her. There's, she's not been hurt in any way, but they see that she's has a very bad fever and she's in a lot of pain and she's got, um, the pain is coming from her stomach area. And so they decide that she should go to a local hospital. So they take her out of there, like a couple of hours go by, I think, and then they finally, they finally get her out of there and they take her, uh, eventually they find out that they had taken her to a maternity hospital. Was she having a miscarriage? No. What they think is, um, that's, no, no, no, but what they think is that she was either,

she either her appendix burst or her bladder burst, but they don't know because when the coroner finally got her body after she died, she dies in this hospital. She died in the maternity hospital. Her body is brought back to Los Angeles, I believe, uh, or they did the coroner in San Francisco, but I assume because she was an actress in Los Angeles. Um, when the body is inspected by the coroner, all of her sex organs have been removed. So there's nothing to look at. They don't know. There's no reason for it. Also, they said bringing a woman who was sick in this, um, in this way to the maternity hospital was a super weird decision. She's not going to get the things she needs.

Exactly. She should have gone to like the general hospital. Right. Um, so she had, she basically suffered with whatever her internal, uh, illness was because they all assumed she was drunk. Yeah. They all just were like, Oh, it's some kind of flusy actress from LA who is at this like, like too much. Couldn't hold a liquor. Yeah. With this party that they shouldn't have even had liquor in the first place with all these actors and Hollywood types, these sinful Hollywood types. So basically, um,

they don't know when they leave San Francisco, a fatty and his friends, um, they just know that she was sick and she got taken to the hospital. They don't know anything else. Um, so, uh, he gets a call from the San Francisco police saying, this girl died. Can you come up and answer some questions? And he's like, of course. So he goes up to San Francisco to answer some questions and what he doesn't know is that, uh, uh, Maude Dumont, Delmont had told the police, um, that our buckle had raped Virginia rap and, um, that she had that, that Maude had heard her screaming in the other room that she knocked on the door and when and, and kicked on it. And after a delay, our buckle came to the door

in his pajamas, wearing wraps hat, cocked at an angle smiling and, um, behind him rap was sprawled on the bed and moaning. And she said that, um, our fatty had said to the actress, I've waited for you for five years and now I've got you. Um, so, uh, and then basically she's told the police he did it. He attacked her and that because he forced himself on her, that caused her bladder to burst. And that's why she was in that situation. Um, so, uh, fatty, our buckles like went up there to be like, yeah, here's what happened. Meanwhile, there were like a handful of witnesses that witnessed the, the first way I told it to you, they all watched him walk in, like watched her walk into the other room, come back out, go into the other room by herself, um, watched him walk in

after her and then come back out, like put her on the bed, come back out, like all the doors were open. Um, also Maude Delmont was in the bathroom of the other bedroom with the door closed, fucking his friend. So there is no way she could have heard her, her screaming and no one else that was in the, um, middle room closer to her screaming at all. Um, and they all attested to that. But the problem was not only was it, um, prohibition, but, um, the film industry was coming under a lot of scrutiny because there were, and they were showing clips of like movies where a man looked at a woman's ankle and they both give each other like the eye. So there's like this, um, it was pre-haze code. So it's, it's like, exactly. So there, so there's a lot of people in the country

that are like alcohol is, is the, of the devil and so are movies. So silent film. And he's basically the king of all of it, making a shit ton of money off of it. So this, um, the district attorney in San Francisco was a man named Matthew Brady and he saw this case, who it was, what the scenario was as the perfect political, uh, situation for himself because he, um, wanted to get into, have a career in politics. And he knew if he could put Fatty Arbuckle away as this rapist and basically headlines, exactly. But also kind of like alcohol was part of it. And that's another reason. And just like the whole mix was a bottle of alcohol being the fucking murder weapon, the wine bottle that he supposedly, right? Yeah, exactly. That was gossip. That actually came out

way later. Um, that didn't, that didn't come in, but him like basically using his body, um, and smashing it, like smashing her to death. The whole thing was so, um, it kind of also perfect because he was such, when you see his face, it's just this big smile. He looks like a big moon face guy. All of his comedy was really light and cutesy. And so to be like, Oh, this guy's a monster was perfect for all of the tabloid rags. And William Randolph Hearst had basically had a field day with this story. They had just been, it, it, the newspapers that came out about Fatty Arbuckle and this rape and murder sold more than this when this Lusitania sank. Like it was, it, it was the hugest story and they never stopped. They, they actually took, there was, um, the

San Francisco police released a picture of Fatty Arbuckle when they were like, now you're under arrest. And he was just like, sorry, what? I came up here to answer your questions. So it's this picture of him standing there just looking completely like what the fuck. And they took the picture, released it, and that went straight into the tabloids. And then the next picture they did, they actually early version photoshopped. So it's him standing there looking off and they photoshopped bars in front of him. So it looked like a reporter got in and took a picture of him sitting in jail, which they never did. So basically they tried and convicted him in, in the newspaper. Um, and people couldn't get enough of this story because it was one of the

first big Hollywood scandals. I mean, I think it may have been the first big Hollywood scandal. And it was so graphic and so terrible that I mean, that's, so anyway, um, uh, the problem was that when they get in to, um, get all their witnesses and their stories for trial, um, uh, Magdal Mont cannot keep her story straight. So she had told them at first that she and Virginia Rapp were lifelong friends. Um, then the next time that they talked to her, she says that they just met days before the party. Um, also, uh, they discovered then that she has this insane criminal record. Um, a lot of people know her as Madame Black. Um, she had procured women for parties where she knew wealthy male guests would find themselves accused of rape and blackmailed

blackmailed into paying her. Right. So that was basically her whole thing that she did. They're stuck and yet, um, then there was the matter of the fact that there were telegrams that she had sent to attorneys in both San Diego and Los Angeles that read, we have Roscoe Arbuckle in a hole here, chance to make some money out of him. Holy shit. Yeah. Um, but even though he knew, he knew those facts, he still took the case to trial and, um, those newspapers never questioned Delmont's version of the events or ever talked about her background or how what an unreliable witness she was. They just went after him relentlessly. Um, and Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin vouched for his character and tried to speak out for him, but it was too late and his

reputation was in shambles. Um, also, uh, Fadi Arbuckle's lawyers introduced medical evidence showing that rap had had a chronic bladder condition and her autopsy concluded that were, there were no marks of violence on her body. There were no signs that she had been attacked in any way, but the defense wouldn't let, um, uh, sorry, the, the, um, prosecution wouldn't let the doctor who had treated rap at the hotel testify. Um, cause she had told the doctor that Fadi Arbuckle had not tried to sexually assault her. Um, but the prosecutor got that point dismissed as hearsay. So that was not, sorry. Um, yeah. So that didn't get in at all. Um, and meanwhile the defense was going to call witnesses that had damaging information about Virginia wraps past and Fadi Arbuckle

would not let them testify out of respect for the dead. He said, um, so he took the stand in his own defense, um, and jurors voted 10 to two for his acquittal. Wow. Um, right. So there were two people that were holding out. And so then the prosecution tried him a second time. The jury deadlocked again. And it wasn't until his third trial, um, that Fadi Arbuckle allowed his attorneys to call the witnesses who had known rap to the stand. And, um, and that was only because his funds were depleted. He had spent $700,000 on his defense. His career was dead. Um, they testified that rap had suffered previous abdominal attacks, drank heavily, disrobed often, disrobed at parties after doing so was promiscuous and had an illegitimate daughter. Um, which none of which is

none of which is only the first one is, is relevant. The drinking and the abdominal attacker was relevant. But at that point they were like, it's a character assassination and just attack. Um, uh, one of them also attacked mod Delmont as the complaining witness that never witnessed. So they basically up there saying that woman saw nothing. Right. And yet she was your main witness and that, but those were the only people that could say that. Yeah. And he hadn't let them say it up until that point. Uh, so on April 12th, 1922, the jury acquitted Arbuckle of manslaughter and the, after deliberating for five minutes, Jesus. Um, oh, the poor dude and a poor woman. After, after a week later, um, Will Hayes for whom the motion peacher industry hired

as a sensor to restore its image, because this was such a huge, um, scandal that like the entire motion picture industry was rocked. Um, and Will Hayes banned Fadi Arbuckle from ever appearing on screen again. Um, he would change his mind eight months later, but the damage had already been done. And Arbuckle changed his name to William B. Goodrich or will be good. And he worked behind the scenes directing films for friends who were made loyal to him, barely earning a living in the only business he had ever known. Um, and a little more than 10 years later in 1933, he had a heart attack and died in his hotel room. He was 46. Holy fuck. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's really fucking depressing. I didn't know it was like, there was so much evidence that he hadn't done it.

I know. Yeah, it's weird. Like no one talks about that. Well, I think it's like why that guy was all fired up at the beginning of that special, but then when you actually hear it, it's that thing that makes perfect sense. Cause it's like the early days of like getting people over a barrel and, and blackmailing it and taking advantage of laws and all this crap. It makes me, you know, it makes me sad. I feel like if Virginia had lived, she would have fucking blown this off so much and been like this never, you know, it's like sad when it's like you're not doing justice for the victim. You're just, it's not, you're not helping the victim by accusing Fadi Arbuckle of doing this. Yeah. There's nothing to do with the victim. She's just taking advantage of like a

horrible scenario. It's just bullshit at that point. And also the idea that, that that woman was even invited to that party when she's like a known criminal and that she was then in the bathroom fucking his other friend. In my mind, it's like, I think there's, and I bet you if I did one hour more research, there's probably a lot of information about it, but there's probably a really good chance he was getting set up. If he was like making the most amount of money in show business, it sounds like that's what she did. Well, it's what she did definitely, but like somebody probably had it out for him and wanted to bring him down specifically for some reason. Was it his friend who insisted that he come with him to San Francisco? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Oh, I get it.

Look, can you spell that for me? Fishbaum. F-I-S-H. So what happened to him? What a dick. Wow. That's fucked up, man. Yeah. Yeah. It's another fucked up one. Do we have a good thing this week? Do you see that thing right there? Roomba. That's my good thing this week. It's the best thing that's ever happened. No, it's great. I'm serious. Talk about it. It's a Roomba. It's a vacuum that you and your cats follow around the house. And just watch and cheer on. So what, you just said it and it just vacuums while you do other stuff? Or while you follow it around and watch it. How long does it take? Well, however long you want it, you said it and forget it. I'm serious. It's like, and it gets all this cat hair

and we all follow it around. It's great. Wow. I know. What about you? I was just staring at this Roomba, that Roomba the whole time, not like actively staring at it, but lovingly gazing at it. Oh, well, I think I told you this personally, but, or maybe I talked about, I can't remember, but I went to see the Zodiac. Did I talk about that on the minisode? No, you talked about it to me at lunch yesterday. Okay. That's good. Okay. So Cine Family, which is the movie theater in town that shows rad things often and that I love and need to rejoin. I was a member for a year and then I was like, I never go to the movies. Like, why am I doing this? And then it's like, Oh, because support, keep businesses open that do shit. That's awesome. Right. And that's a

perfect example because it's so cheap to be a member. And then they do things like this, which is they re, they did a special showing of the movie Zodiac. So fucking cool. And it is the best movie. I keep thinking about it because when you see it in the theater, like the sound was really good and that theater is really small. It used that movie, that theater used to be called the silent movie theater, which is kind of hilarious. Where I got fucking shot and killed in. Yes. Did I ever tell you that story of that they did a benefit at Largo for the, for the guy? No. It was two. It was a gay couple that ran this theater and one got shot by an ex employee. Right. Well, they did this benefit. They raised money for the guy that, that was still alive. And then that guy

got arrested because it was, he had his lover murdered. Okay. Whoops. That money back. Yeah. I love that story because Flanagan and John Brian, they were down the street at Largo and they were like, Oh my God, this terrible thing happened. This man, we have to raise money. And they did this whole huge, like they kept talking about it on all the shows and they made all these special shows to raise money for the silent movie theater guy who was the criminal in the first place. Anyway, if you get a chance and I don't know how you would to see the movie Zodiac on the big screen, it is so, it's such a perfect movie. Yeah. I haven't seen it in so long, but it's a great movie. It's so good. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. That was super fun. Follow us on things. Stephen

Rae Morse, the podcast. Thank you for being our guide through this fucking trippy and stay sexy and don't get murdered. Elvis, you want a cookie? Mimi? Oh, I think that's the new one. Elvis, you want a cookie?