My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 61 - Live at The Neptune

Episode Date: March 23, 2017

Live in Seattle, it's a new episode of My Favorite Murder. Karen and Georgia cover the murder of punk singer Mia Zapata and serial killer Ted Bundy.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hi. Hi. Hi. Seattle. Are these microphones on? Can we? No. Can you hear us?

Me, me, me, me, me. Me. Yeah. What's up, Seattle? Now I'm scared. Who's that empty row? Who's that fucking empty row? It's Seattle.

Lights up. I want all those names. Would you say dead bodies? The fucking reserve family is a real bunch of dicks. That's for sure. Crazy. Whose family is that? I don't know.

It's Jim and Donna Neptune, and they always get 15 seats at every show that they do. Oh my God, it's so good to be here with you guys. This is so exciting. This is the very last night of our weekend tour, first tour ever. Yes. And we're here. We're wrapping it down with Seattle. Yeah.

Thank God. That's for last. And just in time, because we thought it would be a good idea to wear the same dresses for the whole leg of the Western tour. No, you wouldn't cheer for it if you could smell it. I love them. They're going straight into the hotel room trash when I get home. It's all filth now.

It's all ruined. This feels like a dress. When I first put it on the first night, I was like, I'm a gorgeous princess. And tonight I'm like, I feel like Harold's mother from Harold and Maude. It feels like gross polyester that an old bitch would wear. And I'm really mad at you about it. But pockets. Find me.

Find me. Find my life. Find me. Follow me. No. Bye, Karen. Do this with me, like guys. They won't participate.

They won't do it. Refuses. Refuses to work. There it is. Refuses to work with you. Ah. Oh. She was just going to keep going.

There's someone up there that's so mad right now. They didn't fucking have this and they're fucking so angry. Yeah, we should wear different dresses every night now. I'm, how about pants and old shirts? Fucking, let's just wear whatever we want. I'm not sure. The dress thing may have been sarcastic at first. Yeah, we had to like weirdly commit to it like, it's our tour and we have to be fancy

and beaters. And it's like, well, you're not. Yeah. Look at you guys. Yeah. You know what? The night that we did Seattle, we fucking decided to wear whatever the fuck we wanted. I'm going to start.

Feel that. Feel that freedom. Feel it. I'm so relieved. I'm never wearing a bra again. Fucking just can't. I think I'm like past the point of not being able to wear a bra anymore, but I don't care. How long did that take you?

Just made it. I came home one day and Vince was like, oh, where were you? You're on people. It was like, he's like, I can see through your shirt. Fuck that. Like I don't care, but I just fucking can't do it. I mean, it's just, I should take it off. Anyways, hi.

Hi. You just went down into a hole there. Goodbye. I shit, but I shit it. Has anyone ever thrown their bra into the audience and not the audience throwing their bra onto the stage? Maybe. I bet they have like a.

It's a $14 target bra. Yeah. That smells. So Karen, you took the tour. I also, you can tell it's the end of the tour because my fingernails look like the ones Catherine Martin saw in Buffalo Bill's well. Can you see them? I don't know what I've been doing, but literally it's like, I look like I've been trying to

climb my way out of a murderer's basement. That was a great reference. Like I really dig the, he just did. Yeah. That's what I do for a living. Thank you. So you texted me when we got to our hotel and you were like, and I was like this hotel and you were like, I think it used to be a hospital.

And I thought you were joking. And then I checked into my room and I think it used to be a hospital. It used to be a hospital, everybody. It smells a little bit like a haunted bleach. And like, yeah, there's a, the, in the bathroom, the bathroom door has one of those, like, what's like the ship windows? Yes. That's round.

And I think it's for like, to make sure your patient isn't like sneaking drugs. Yeah. So like the nurse can look in and, are you okay? Don't shiv yourself with that soap. It's not allowed. It's very rehab. It's rehabby. This is Diet Coke.

It's rehabby. There's also, there's kind of a feel to it. I was sitting in there typing as we like to do before shows. And for, for a while so that the lights kind of went dark and I hadn't turned any lights on. And then in the hallway, a child screamed and I almost, I was like, when I'm on the phone, because it doesn't, there's no carpeting. No, I heard clonking upstairs and I was like, that'd be funny if it was a ghost.

Yeah. But it's just, there's no carpeting. But did you see, there's a giant pillow on the bed that says, sleep with me. And I'm like, oh, that's my sleep podcast that I listened to. So maybe they, maybe they're fans of that podcast. And so many acts here know what I'm talking about. What? What?

Just the idea that your hotel would be like, I think I know what podcast she likes. Sewing a pillow. Aw. When did you make that reservation? Three days ago? I'm saying, yeah. Sewing, sewing all night. I'm staying there again.

I mean, we've been given weirder gifts. Am I wrong? So this is my favorite murder. Hi everybody. Thanks for being here. No. You're freaking me out. Oh, you're into it now.

Now you like doing light stuff. Okay. Good to know. That's so scary. Like, we can't really see anyone, which is good because this is scary. And it feels like when, like, when, like, large Marge makes her face all scary. Like with the lights. Or no, when he has to like.

It's just one, one lady with a huge face in the middle. It's like, oh, fuck. I don't, I don't want to see that. I want to pretend that this is not real. It's fun. It's totally fun. We're in a fight, ladies and gentlemen. We're in a fight.

Um, when we were upstairs, there's a record player and I put on the record that was there, which was like a K tell. I think it was called like emotions or something. And there was all these songs from the 80s that were like every song from my junior high dance. And so I was kind of getting like an acid stomach and Georgia was like doing something else like it seemed like she wasn't paying attention at all. And then all of a sudden there was a song on and it was sticks.

It was a stick song. I can't remember what it was. And all of a sudden Georgia snaps up and goes, what is this? She doesn't even have a good voice. It was so bad. She's. It made me feel like I was in a grocery store, like a sad grocery store. Oh, sorry sticks fans.

Just a ballad where I sing like this. That's all it was in the 80s. That's all we had. No, I don't, I don't need that. We wanted more. We had color me bad. Just, just low dance too. Oh, that's how old I am.

Oh, yeah. I was blackout drunk for color me bad. It's probably up here a couple of times. Yeah, it was fun. Oh, this is the other. I didn't start out on this tour wearing these shoes with a dress. That probably wouldn't be my first choice. But I was like, fuck it.

I can't do it anymore. Yeah. I had like huge heels for a while. You had heels on. But for who? Fuck. What? What am I doing?

No offense. Um, what? Yeah. What else? Let's regroup. Let's just refocus. We did a Vancouver show last night, which was, I think one guy's. Oh, that's right. There's a wagon train that came down from Vancouver that's at this show now.

I think they're over there. Guess what? So at the end of the show, we were like going to have some of these to release and stuff, the live shows, and then they were like, that didn't work. We didn't get the recording. So that was an exclusive show. So we're going to, maybe tonight you guys, things will happen and this will be an exclusive show too.

But yeah, they came to us after and they're like, it just didn't record. And we're just like, well, it is a podcast. So we'll just tell everybody about it. Yeah. So if you get a call, we're going to be like episode 58. Here's basically how it went. It was so good. So I go best show and then George is like, and then I'm like, say a Canadian name wrong.

Oh my God. We were hilarious last night. Oh my God. Best we've ever been in our lives. It was fucking incredible. Best we've ever been. Death, jokes, everything you like. Puns, terrible puns.

Don't be puns. Stevens, like, like, you know, talking about Steven all the time. We yelled at Steven. Yelled at Steven a lot. Did you see? Magical. Yeah. I mean, I've seen people on Instagram.

I wrote a thing about like that. It didn't record. And everyone was like, Steven, you had one job in the comments, like over and over and over again. He wasn't even there. He wasn't even there. He was sitting in Los Angeles stroking his own mustache. And he's like, I'm sure he was like, did I do something wrong?

I guess, you know what? I probably did. I probably did. I'm really sorry. Sweet little Stevie. I love cats. Steven. God bless his soul.

Yeah. That's a great description of him. Yeah. Um, oh, the reserved are finally, Mr. and Mrs. reserved are finally here. So. Can we get those things? Oh. Real quick.

I love you. Just real quick. It's my cousin, Danny. Oh, my God. No. Come on. Oh, my God. Uh-oh.

Oh, no. What if she tells him he's adopted? Here's his this time. Come on. Danny. Sit right here. You think? Guys.

Georgia. You think you're better than us? Hi. Good. How are you? Nice to meet you. I'm Danny Brown. He's the youngest of all the cousins.

Uh-huh. Well, Chris is the youngest, right? Chris is the youngest. Oh, sorry. Oh, no. Oh, here's one. You know, Cald said, hey, I'm going to be in Seattle this weekend, too. Can I come to your show?

And I said, be on time. Wait, will you really quickly tell the story? So I don't know if any of you, you probably aren't, but if there are any San Francisco Giants fans in the audience, a couple, um, then there's problems. I know. Here's that. So there's, oh, good. So, um, do you want to tell that story of when you, uh, you got, you were, uh, got to

be famous for 15 minutes? Do you want me to do it for you and you can just chime in? You do tell a better story than I do. Well, so that was part of the genetics. I got all those. All of them. Um, so Danny looks like Buster Posey, who is the catcher for the San Francisco Giants quite a bit to the point where right now, a man in the front said, yeah, you do.

Um, so now we know it's true. Um, so Danny worked in at, uh, it wasn't candlestick was it? It was is AT&T Park. Um, he worked at the park, then one day he was leaving and some little kids walked up and they were like, Oh my God, Buster Posey, can we get an autograph? And he's like, I'm not Buster Posey. And then more people came up and up. So he just started signing autographs.

I love it. Ruin rookie cards. Some guy like in 50 years goes to like, he's been saving it for his children for retirement and he goes to bring it and cash it in and they're like, this is a fucking forge, dude. That's right. Zero value. Way to go. The economy collapse.

He's like, don't worry about it. You've got this thing. Grandpa has got you. All right. You can go. You don't have to say it. You're done roasting me. Danny Brown, ladies and gentlemen.

Good job. Now you're fine. You're fine. Let's, let's talk about it at Christmas. I'm so glad that was your cousin. I couldn't have gotten better. That was great. I mean, what if it's just a person that I would have yelled at him anyway.

It's what I do. It's my passion. Oh, you, you wear it well. Thanks. Like this dress, like this goddamn dress. Should we talk about murder? Should we talk about some murders? Do you want to do that?

I wonder if one guy's like, oh, I didn't know that's what they were, I'm not really into that. No, thank you actually. Like why would anyone want to talk about murder? Keep talking about your clogs. That's what we really, really love. Clog cast. Clog cast.

No. Dansco presents the clog cast. Do not steal that. No. It's copy written. Our lawyer's in the reserve section. That's right. He's writing everything down.

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You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. I think what do you want to go first, you want me to go first? Well, I went first last night. Okay, then I'm going to go first. Yeah, we're off. We're off a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

Someone, someone gave us, while they were at the show, they gave us a little rock and it says K on one side and G on the other and they said, you can just flip it whenever you want to know who's going to go first and was like pretty brilliant. I thought they could have done that on a quarter. Yeah. Now we have to carry around a big rock. So thank you, it's pretty. It's like, thanks.

Yeah. It's a pretty good size rock. Um, okay. This one. Okay. This is what I said this to my therapist in last weekend, last weekend therapy because I'm bad at this. I might cry.

Just want to let her during this murder. If you do, will you walk upstage and like really, I mean downstage and really like give it to the people. Look up to the thing. Yes. Could we get a pin spot? If she starts crying. Wow.

I know I'm bugging you, but I didn't know that was what that was. Yeah. All right. Because I saw a document about this. Like this is probably one of my like really young murders, you know, like young as in like early teenage, I know who this I know, you know, um, I saw a documentary about it to fucking ruin me. It made me feel so awful.

It's always stuck with me partly because for 10 years it was a cold case, which you know I'm obsessed with. And so it's one of those like big things that have no answers and you always, you know, think about it and imagine what could happen. And then when you find out it gets solved, it's just so pointless and empty. It doesn't feel better, you know? So this is the story of Mia Zapata. Yeah.

Seattle's fucking yeah, I might cry. Okay. So Mia Zapata is born in August of 1965. She's raised in Louisville, Kentucky and she was always obsessed with music. She learned to play the guitar and piano at nine years old. She would listen to punk and jazz and everything in between. She just was obsessed with music. And she had a voice like a jazz singer.

It was like Janice Joplin's voice. It was amazing. And then in 1984, she goes away to college in Yellow Springs, Ohio to study liberal arts. And there she in 1986, she meets three friends and they start a band. It's Steve Moriarty, Matt Dresner and Joe Spleen. They form the punk band The Gits. Yes. Yeah.

And so Matt, who was a member of The Gits, said that I went to many shows where afterwards people didn't even know I was on stage because their eyes were so transfixed on Mia because she just had this amazing stage presence. He said she was like a blue singer fronting a punk band. And then in 1988, they recorded their self-release, their unofficial debut album called Private Loobs. Lobs? Lobs.

Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs.

Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs.

Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs.

Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs.

Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs.

Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs. Lobs.

Lobs. Lobs. Dude, it's true. I believe it. I'm not kidding. I'm going to look it up. I'm going to get back. I fucking think you're right.

Mia's described as someone who commanded respect and interest immediately. And she and the band members move into an abandoned house. They called the Rat House in Capitol Hill District where the band rehearsed and lived. And they earn a huge following in the local scene. They have met a lot of friends and they kind of just like mesh right into the local punk scene in the community. And let's see. So Mia's described as funny and kind.

She loved meeting new people. She would help friends recover from drug addiction. She took in homeless acquaintances. And she helped a lot of people through various crises. She was a really open and kind person. Everyone said she was really funny and always joking and shy, but a really good friend. So during the 90s, Buzz begins to surround the Gits and they release a bunch of singles on local independent record labels.

They're known for their like powerful driving music, you know, like punk with these amazing lyrical poetic lyrics, lyrical poetic lyrics. And then in 92, they release their official debut album, Frenching the Bully. And their reputation gets even bigger in the Seattle scene. And they begin to work on their second album called Enter the Conquering Chicken, which is titled after Mia's chicken tattoo, which represents her childhood nickname, Chicken Legs, which is adorable. 93 Atlantic Records offers to sign the Gits and they set up a national tour.

And Mia was never really into the idea of getting really famous. And all she said she wanted to do is get a cabin in the woods, an old Jeep, and a sheep dog to ride shotgun. Did it sound like I was going to say, and a shotgun? To shoot sheep dogs. Yeah. Where everybody has a dream, you get to have whatever you want as your dream. Spreading false rumors.

I know, that's wrong. My favorite murder. It's not right. No. So just days before the tour is about to start on July 7, 1993, Mia leaves one of her regular hangs, the Comet Tavern in Capitol Hill, which we're all going to meet at afterwards. She's looking for her boyfriend, but couldn't find him. And then goes to visit a friend named Tracy.

And Tracy says that night she was really agitated and distracted. And Tracy urged her to stay the night at her house, but Mia said she would just take a cab home if she wanted to leave. I think she was upset with her boyfriend because he wasn't around. And this is the last time that Mia's seen alive. They think she walked a few blocks in the direction of her place or went a different way, just kind of liked to wander the city. And either way, an employee at the Comet remembers her wearing her headset as she left.

So it's thought that she was listening to music in her Walkman. And so wasn't kind of paying attention to her surroundings and not listening and didn't hear. I mean, not that she would have fucking been able to do anything anyways. Like if she hears someone, she can, you know, whatever, okay. And then at 320, a sex worker discovers Mia's body in the 100 block of 24th Avenue South, which is in the central district of Seattle. And it's kind of known as a seedy neighborhood at the time.

And she's found in the street on her back with her arms outstretched and her legs straight and crossed. And she had been beaten and strangled with the cord of her sweatshirt, which was a Gitz sweatshirt, which is like makes that, and then I'm going to cry. And she had been raped, although the police kept that part out like from the public for years. I'm not sure why. You just can't turn that page.

I don't want to. We just have to stop the show. Yeah. Okay. So it's thought that she encounters her attacker around 2.15 in the morning and that she had been killed somewhere else and then transported to the location where her body is found. And it's about two miles from the studio where her body was found, where she had been. And it's on a dead-end street and the cops don't think she had been murdered where she

was found. They thought that someone brought her to the location when after she was dead. And there was like, there's many theories of what could have happened. She told her friends she was taking a cab home, so they thought that maybe one of the drivers had picked her up that night. And so they looked into all of them to see if anyone had picked her up and nobody had. And then a man had heard a horrifying scream, he said, when he was at home near the reservoir, which ended up being three miles from where she was found.

And so they thought maybe she could have walked towards the reservoir that way, which is where he heard the scream. And he like ran outside, he heard the scream, and it was so awful that he ran outside. The only person that was ever seriously questioned was as a suspect was Mia's boyfriend. And they were in the process of breaking up and he was described even by his friends as scary. Yeah. But he passes two lie detector tests and gives hair and blood samples.

He shows up for every appointment, he's super cooperative, and he has a solid alibi. So he's cleared, and then the police have no suspects to question at that point. They didn't have a crime scene or witnesses, and so the case went cold. And after her murder, Seattle's music community, including Nirvana and Joan Jett, helped raise $70,000 to hire a private investigator for three years via benefit concerts. So yeah, it's pretty fucking rad. So meanwhile, police think that Mia had been killed by a random killer. Some people think that, and many people in the punk rock community thought that she had

been killed by someone that she knows, and I remember believing that for so long when after I had heard about it. And some people thought that whoever killed her hadn't been acting alone because she was posed in this Christ-like pose that someone had carried her feet and someone had carried her arms and then left her there. And then also people thought it might be a serial killer because of the ritualistic pose and also a cup from her bra was missing, so they thought maybe a serial killer had taken it as a souvenir.

The private investigator funds end up drying up with no major breaks in the case, and the investigator, the private investigator, Lee Heron, she just continues to investigate on her own because she's obsessed with it, which is pretty fucking cool. Then in 98, after five years of investigation, Seattle police say that they're no closer to solving the case than they were right after the murder. And for 10 years, there's this crazy suspicion and accusation and fear throughout this whole Seattle community. Everyone is just wondering who this can be and if it's going to happen again because

there's no rhyme or reason. Then 10 years later, in 2003, the Seattle police test DNA against the national database, which they had tried in 2001 and had no results, but this time there was a match. A man who had recently even forced to submit DNA in the database when he was arrested in Florida for burglary and domestic abuse in 2002 is matched to the DNA found at the scene, specifically the saliva from the bite marks on Mia's chest, which, thank God, they fucking collected that in like 93, you know. Jesus Mesquia, he's 48, he's a Cuban native who lives in Florida Keys.

He didn't know Mia at all, but he lived just three blocks from where her body had been found. Mesquia is this huge, hulking man. I mean, if you see video of him, he's a giant, and he has a history of violence and sexual assault against women. He was a drifter in the 90s, and he spent time in Seattle where there was a report of a decent exposure filed against him, and it had happened near the Comet Theater within weeks of when Mia had been killed.

But there was no known links to the two of them, so it was just a random attack, which is fucking crazy. He never testified in his own defense and still maintains his fucking innocence. And the theory is that he saw her leave the bar and followed her before he attacked her and drags her into his car, assaults her in the back seat. He's convicted in 2004 and sentenced to 37 years initially, which doesn't seem like enough, right? And he appeals, and then he's sentenced to 36 years instead, which is like, okay, what

the fuck? I just don't even... I am sorry. And he's been in prison since 2003, still alive, and this is... Her dad said, you don't realize what forever is. You drive your daughter to school, tell your wife, have a good day, I'll see you later, but you seem you'll be together at the end of the day, but then something happens and forever is forever.

It doesn't matter what you do, how you do it, how I pray, how I wish nothing on earth is gonna bring Mia back. That's that. That's awful. It is. I know. I mean, I remember seeing that one. I think there's a forensic files of it, because, right?

I just remember seeing it, because every forensic files, that old guy narrator, it was always like, these random people, and suddenly he's talking about the punk scene in Seattle. Hearing that guy talk about it, I don't know, it was like bone chilling, where it's just like, fuck, this is really a real thing that happened. It's not like something that happens to someone in Idaho, it's like... Something you can't connect with. Sorry, I don't... That's not...

That wasn't a judgment. I was just trying to pick a random state. Something we have not... You know, someone's mom, like a mom, I can't identify with that, except I have a mom, but I'm not one. But yeah, it was like... They showed footage on the forensic files of the punk show, and it was like, oh, I fucking been to those things.

Well, I fucking walked drunk away from a 1,000 bar. So it's just that chilling feeling of like, fuck. Alone with headphones in. Jesus. Yeah. I mean, that's really sad. Well, bye. Take it away, Karen.

And I really set you up for failure, didn't I? Nope. You want to know why? Why? Because I'm doing Ted Bundy. I mean, right? Like, that's... Come on.

This is how we do it. Fucking dropping it and picking it back up and like, what is this? Here's something meaningful. There you go. Now here's a super monster. Right. And here's your hometown super monster. Congratulations.

Way to go. I'm not going to cry on this one. No, no, no. But I am glad you did that. I think that means a lot. Those two got... Yeah, this is a nice little... This is a nice pairing.

What are we talking about? What is this? This is in a fucking cheese and charcuterie place, right? This is a funny thing. When I was looking up this stuff, someone... He... On one page, they said, Ted Bundy, sometimes known as the co-ed killer, sometimes known as the Angel of Decay.

What? That sounds like a dentist, like, what a dentist I feel like. A goth dentist? Yeah. Yeah. What if there's a dentist serial killer? Then that's what that is. I mean, they're already so horrible.

I mean... I've never heard Ted Bundy called the Angel of Decay. It's never happened. I feel like that was, like, a weird URL link, and they just went to someone's weird poetry page. It's like, no, that's not. Don't click on that. But as probably many of you have already, no, and have already read, one of my favorite

crime writers is Ann Rule, and, right, she's just like, she's the fucking Stephen King of true crime. It's crazy. She churned it out for years and years, God bless her soul. And her story, I wish, if I had all the time in the world, and I could really fucking... Here's what I would do. Let's hear it. I would now clear the stage.

I would put on an Ann Rule costume, and I would do a one-woman show called The Stranger Beside Me. Yeah. I'd fucking sit in the audience and yell shit at you. You'd be like, fuck you. No. I'd be yelling our quotes at us real loud. That would...

Because her story, so if you don't know, Ann Rule was a crime writer who in the 70s had been a cop and had become, like, a crime beat reporter, among other things. I think she still worked in the police department also in some other ways. But she also volunteered as a suicide prevention hotline. And that is where she met the amazing Mr. Ted Bundy. She worked side by side with him on the night shift at a suicide hotline. And he was a close friend, and she used to like to say if she was 10 years younger or her daughters were 15 years older.

She thought he was the perfect man. This is why you never let your mom set you up with anyone. That your mom... Get it. Next time she tries, say, guess what, mom? Yeah. Don't pull that Ann Rule shit on me, mom. Eric from your office could be a serial killer.

Also, I just love... This is my favorite kind. My favorite kind is the ones who like wear like fair isle sweaters and like, hey, I'd love to treat you to a bottle of chablis where you're like, I never saw it coming. I never... And he is so that way that even this woman who like herself had studied psychology, had been a cop, all these things, did not see it, didn't see it over and over again, even when the evidence was piling up in front of her face, she'd still be like, it can't be

him. That's crazy. It isn't him. I mean, I guess today is different these days, but fucking, fuck. But I think it's also... It's also a tribute to his insane, like, you know, whatever he was, I like to say, my favorite one to say is psychopath, but who really knows what that means, not me. Some people get offended.

Some get offended, some just want me to be accurate. I think he was a sexual, sadist psychopath. Yeah. I think so. I think he really got off to unmanipulate, like, that was part of his enjoyment is just living in plain sight. And manipulating people, and he was really quite something. All right.

Let's talk about it. Let's do it. So, his mother, Louise Cowell, this is how he started life. His mother got pregnant out of wedlock, so he was raised to believe that his grandparents were his parents and his mother was his sister. That's fine, it's fine. George Clooney, fuck, it didn't turn him into a serial killer. Is it George Clooney?

No. Who is it? You're just fucking naming people. I'm telling you, I'm rumors, I'm spreading them. It did not affect Brad Pitt one bit. What's the problem? It's someone, I swear. Someone's yelling at him.

Some famous person? Yes. Someone tell me. Bobby Flay? Oh. George Clooney, someone else. Jack Nicholson. Jack Nicholson.

Thank you. Yes. For real? Jack Nicholson. Yes. Jack Nicholson. Is that right? Yes.

Are you just picking one? I swear to God. That's what I meant. Okay. Same fucking thing. Those two. He did fine with it. Exactly.

He's a psychopath, probably. Although the shining. All right. There were also rumors that his grandfather, who was, he was raised to believe was his father, was actually his father, but that's just gossip. Stop gossiping about Ted Bunny. Oh my God. So he graduated from Woodrow Wilson High School in Tacoma in 1965.

Really? Yes. The Fighting Murderers. And he won a scholarship to the University of Puget Sound after two semesters. He transferred to the University of Washington. What a fucking educated listeners in this audience today. They love school. How about?

When they didn't go to college. Then they went for a year and a half, stopped going to class, then just thought they could hide their report card. And then just signed up for class so they could get their mom's health insurance. All right. Sorry. I'm interrupting. Okay.

After two semesters, he transferred to the University of Washington, and there he meets Stephanie Brooks, which is a pseudonym. I didn't know that for a long time. Makes me really mad. I always thought her name was Stephanie Brooks. That's a pseudonym. Stephanie was a beautiful girl from a wealthy California family. They dated for a year.

Ted is way more into her than she is into him. And eventually she graduates. She moves back home to her parents' house in California, and she breaks up with him. And she tells him, upon breaking up with him, that he's immature and he lacks ambition. And I'm sure that that went over well with Ted. He's like, thank you, Stephanie, I appreciate your candor, and I'll take it into consideration. No ambition, eh? Watch this.

So then in 1969, right after that happens, he decides he's going to go back to his birth place, Burlington, Vermont, visit his family. That's where he finds out he's illegitimate. Oh, but anyway, here's some maple syrup. So he comes on back to Seattle with his spring in his step and a thirst for blood. So, he comes back from that trip, really knuckles down, and becomes a big Republican. Why is that the weirdest? That's like the weirdest twist for me.

Yeah. Oh. Isn't that a fun twist? Huh. He was like, I know what's going to impress Stephanie. I'm going to get into politics. Again. Watch this.

Watch me wear a red and white striped tie, Stephanie, goddammit. So he runs the Seattle campaign office for Nelson Rockefeller's presidential run. Who? I know. He did a great job. So then he returns to the University of Washington, he becomes a psychology major and an honor student, and he meets a woman named Liz Kendall, who then becomes his girlfriend. He graduates from UW in 1972 with a dream psychology, and that summer he goes on a business

trip to California, and he meets up with Stephanie Brooks. Just to say hi. Hey, what's going on? I just want to check in, see how you are. Catch up. What are you going up to down here? What? Oh, I wrote this time as a motivated Republican psychology grad student with some amazing

sweaters. So they get, they actually get back together. He gets back together with her and they date for a year. His poor girl, real girlfriend at home is like, he said he was just going to have fucking margaritas with her. Neither of them knew about each other. Yeah. Okay.

So he gets back together with Stephanie Brooks, dates her very seriously for a year, is very romantic, is very lovely. At the end of the year, he proposes marriage, she says yes, and two weeks later, he breaks up with her and will not return her calls. Whoa. So what did he, that was a, he fucking vengeance dated proposed to her. If he wasn't Ted Bundy, I'd be like, fuck yeah, you did, but no, really shines a light on that behavior.

Doesn't it? It's very, very destructive behavior, vicious, cruel behavior. I do, I do like it though, a little bit. I mean, that's, I can think of like four different people, it was amazing to do that too. You make them refall in love with you, and then you're like, um, later days, fuck yourself. Peace out to you and your family. Remember when I was wearing the south fit, remember the south fit? Yeah.

Uh, okay, so then, uh, Stephanie's devastated, this is what I wrote, and it's tasteless, Stephanie's devastated, and as she weeps, her long brunette hair covers her face evenly on both sides. That's right, because it's parted down the middle. No. Remember that. Remember that for later. Is that where it's, nope, I'm not right, forgot.

Freeze that, make it, just paint a picture in your mind, you're gonna want to look back at it later. Post it, post it. Post it out. Because almost immediately after all of those events, Ted's murderous rampage begins. And when I say murderous rampage, I'm talking about like five pages of 11 point font rampage shit. So let's blaze through this.

Get comfy, everyone. Shortly after midnight on January 5th, 1974, Ted Bundy breaks into the basement apartment of 18-year-old Joni Lenz, also a pseudonym, and bludges her with a metal rod from her own bed frame, sexually assaults her with a speculum, and leaves her for dead. She is found by her roommates the next day in a pool of blood in a coma, and she survives but has permanent brain damage. One month later, Ted Bundy breaks into the room of UW student and his cousin's roommate Linda Ann Healy.

He knocks her unconscious, dresses her in jeans and a t-shirt, wraps her in a sheet, and carries her away. That's on February 1st. Now female co-eds start disappearing at the rate of one a month. They're all young and slender, with long brown hair parted down the middle. In March, Donna Gale Manson, what'd you say? Remember that now? Yeah.

You remember? No, I remember. In March, Donna Gale Manson, a 19-year-old student at Evergreen College in Olympia, is kidnapped and murdered. Don't be fucking cheering that. It's a wonderful arts college, actually, where you get to give yourself your own grades. It's real, like, fucking a lot of this and a lot of this and that. Yes, mom?

Yes, no, I am learning a ton. Thank you. Thanks for the health insurance. Thanks for calling during my acid trip, anyhow. In April, Susan Randcourt disappears from the campus of Central Washington State College in Ellensburg the same night, right? The same night, another female student reports being approached by a man in a cast asking for help carrying a stack of books to his Volkswagen Beetle.

Here we go. All right. Two other coeds tell the same story from three nights earlier. In May, Kathy Parks disappears from Oregon State campus in Corvallis. It's really weird. I feel like we should be omitting the college names. Poor Oregon State, they're just like, we've got to represent. And they know it's coming.

It's like four sad people up there. We love the middle of Oregon, too. On June 1st, Brenda Ball leaves the flame tavern in Burrien and is never seen again. Birrian. Birrian. Burrian. Who cares? I mean, seriously.

Seriously. The fact that you knew the geography of where the middle of Oregon was, I was impressed. Fine. Birrian. 10 days later, in the early morning hours of June 11th, UW student, George Ann Hawkins is last seen leaving her boyfriend's dorm to take the short walk back down the alley to her sorority house. They say it was 50 yards from his door to her door, but she never arrives.

Others tell the police they see a man in a leg cast struggling to carry a briefcase the night before. One student reports the man asked her to help him carry the briefcase back to his Volkswagen Beetle. No. If a man ever asks you to help him carry a briefcase, we've talked about this. Women and children, if men ask you for directions, children, they don't want. Just don't need your help, children.

And men who can't carry their own suitcases don't get to have, I mean, briefcases, don't get to have briefcases. That's just part of it. That's a good rule. If you've injured your arm and you don't get to carry a briefcase, sorry, important businessman. Put a backpack on. Take a break.

This brings us to July 17th, 1974. This is the part where, when I was reading A Stranger Beside Me, I couldn't stop reading this chapter over and over because it's so fucking fucked up. So Lake Sammamish, Sammamish, I mean, they should spell it phonetically on Wikipedia if they want podcasters to announce it correctly. Lake Sammamish State Park in Issaquah. You guys are, you're fucking easily impressed, I mean, fucking. What a job we have.

I mean, it's ridiculous. This is like, like reverse kindergarten, basically. This is like a spelling bee, but like, you just can't, everyone wins, everyone gets a ribbon. That's right. I'm into it. That's fine with me. So, at Lake, well, shit, I forgot already, Sammamish, Sammamish.

It's a beautiful holiday weekend, and tons of people are there. You know, when it's sunny up here, you guys go bat shit. It's like, all of a sudden, everybody's wearing the smallest bathing suit they can find, like in standing around at a man-made lake. So this, there's actually pictures online, you can look this up. It's so packed on this day. There's like, there's just people standing like shoulder to shoulder. It's unbelievable.

And that day, two women, Janice Ott and Denise Nazlin, both disappear without a trace in the middle of the day. So eight witnesses tell police they saw a handsome young man named Ted. He doesn't use a pseudonym. With his arm in a sling, and five of them were women, who he asked for help unloading his sailboat from his Volkswagen. So one woman actually went with him, and as she's walking up to the Volkswagen, she's like, there ain't no sailboat over here.

And she was all, bye. Three witnesses said that they saw Janice Ott speaking to that same man, and they saw her leave with him. And then four hours later, Nazlin disappears. Wow, he came back. He fucking killed Janice Ott up in like the hills about a mile away. And then came back to get another woman. He is in a full on fucking psychotic frenzy.

But meanwhile all like, they said, the witnesses describe him as having kind of a clipped, slightly British accent. So can you imagine, he's like fucking, he's like a werewolf rampaging. And then he like wipes it all off and turns around, it's like, oh, hello, do you mind? I've got a sailboat over here, I can't, I can't get it off my, go on. I was a theater manager. Okay. So the police distribute flyers.

So there's a, there's two comparative pictures. The next weekend at that lake, nobody's there. Nobody's there. That's hilarious. The Keeneys away. Yeah, that's right. So the police distribute flyers. They hold a press conference describing the man witnessed, Ted Bundy's girlfriend, his

psychology professor, and his suicide prevention co-worker and crime writer and rule all call the police and give his name. No. Yes. And in the book, she like talks about it where she calls and says, this is crazy. And I mean, it's probably not him, but I, the thing is that he does have a gold Volkswagen. His name is Ted and, and he has no sailboat, it can't be denied his total lack of voting. Oh, okay, so, oh, because they also gave his physical description.

So basically it's just staring all of them in the face and they're like, I don't, I mean, could it be? No. But it also must be really weird because she talks about in the book that he was so empathetic and he would talk to people, he would talk people off killing themselves for hours. He would stay on the phone. He was so empathetic. Like he had the most amazing mask that he would wear.

He was living the ultimate double life. It's fucking nuts. Okay, so Ted Bundy killed both of those women within hours of each other and both of those murders were so brutal that when their skeletal remains were found a mile from that lake, there were only bone fragments left. And up there with them, when they found those skeletal remains, they also found the remains of George Ann Hawkins. And then just east of there on Taylor Mountain in 1975, the partial skeletal remains of the

rest of the missing women were found. Linda Healy, Susan Rankard, Kathy Parks, and Brenda Ball. And Bundy claimed that Donna Manson was also buried there, but no remains of her have ever been found. So he basically had these two dumping grounds and he used to go visit them. I don't know how he fucking found the time, but it was like among all the other bullshit that he was doing, then he would drive up into the mountains and then just sit there with his victims' bodies.

All right. Then he decides to go to law school. Oh my God. He's gonna teach that ex-girlfriend a thing or two. So he moves to Salt Lake City. Do we? That can't... That was not sincere.

All right. I'll try to go through these fast because this... It's just so much. On October 2nd, Nancy Wilcox disappears from Holiday, Utah. She was last seen riding in a Volkswagen. A little over two weeks later, 17-year-old Melissa Smith is abducted, raped, sodomized, and strangled in mid-vale. And her body is found nine days later.

She's the daughter of the police chief. Then 17-year-old Laura Amy disappears after leaving a Halloween party in Lehigh, and a month later, hikers find her naked, beaten, strangled body on the banks of a river in American Fort Canyon. On November 8th, Carol DeRanche is leaving Fashion Place Mall in Murray when an officer Roseland approaches her to tell her that her car's been broken into and that she needs to come with him to file a report. So she goes to the car.

She sees nothing's missing, but he tells her she asked her to come to the station anyway. And then they get into his Volkswagen, you know. He didn't have a police car? The car that cops drive all the time, gold Volkswagen's. On the way, he suddenly pulls over really fast and tries to throw handcuffs on her. But in the frenzy, and she starts fighting him off, he puts both handcuffs on one wrist. And then as he does that, he picks up a crowbar and tries to hit her over the head with it. But she catches it mid-air because her other arm is free.

Then she opens the car door and rolls out onto the highway and escapes from fucking Ted Bundy. Yes! Carol! Get it, girl! Fuck yes, Carol! I mean, I just was going to say, probably ruined going to the mall for a long time. That night at Viewmont High School in Bountiful, the drama club is putting on a play.

This ties back in. I just wanted to talk about theater arts for a second. So both teachers and students report seeing a man who approaches them to tell them that their cars have been broken into. Some say they see him lurking in the back of the auditorium where the play is being held. And Debbie Kent, a 17-year-old high school student, leaves the play at intermission to go pick up her brother and is never seen again.

Here the investigators find a small key in that parking lot that fits the pair of handcuffs that were taken off Carol Derange. Oh, my God. Okay. So now I've interjected a story I found on Reddit. Maybe a bad idea, but it possibly could be true. Maybe 30 percent. So this story is a guy that says his friends' parents met in their teens at the end of their

first date, his friend's dad suggested that they go for a midnight hike up in Provo Canyon. He apparently knew the place since he had done a fair amount of rock climbing in the area. So the two drove up to the mouth of the canyon, started hiking under the light of the stars since it was a new moon. I'm just hoping to get late at that point. Nobody fucking hikes at night. I know.

But they can't. It's their son, so they can't have to tell them a different story. Oh, yeah. They're like, son, we loved hiking in the 70s. Yeah. Oh, we'd hike and hike all night. Right. At some point, the dad starts getting a bad feeling since the pathway ahead, which was

going to pass under some trees, was going to be very dark. So he ignores the feeling and presses on. Gotta ignore those feelings. He got to. In later retelling of the story, his mom would say that she felt the same bad feeling, but that she didn't know the trail like he did. So she just trusted that he knew what he was doing. A minute later, the dad felt that feeling even stronger, ignored it again.

They walked a bit of the way into the trees when his foot hit something soft in the middle of the path. Under the trees, though, it was too dark to see just what the soft thing was. The feeling came back stronger than ever. And instead of finding out what his foot hit, they both agreed to run away. No. Years later, after being married for some time, congratulations to them. They were watching an interview with the serial killer, Ted Bundy, in response to a question

asking him to describe the time he felt closest to being caught. He explained about the night that he lured a girl into Provo Canyon, had just killed her when he heard some people coming up the trail and that he hid in the trees only to watch some guy walk right into the body and for some reason just turn around and walk away. Oh, man, and this is why you always bring a flashlight when you're fucking hiking at night. Yes. Yes.

No, yes. No, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. Also, somebody could have just watched interviews of Ted Bundy retro engineered that entire story and be lying on Reddit. We don't know. We don't know. There's just no way to tell.

There's no way to tell. Okay. So now, uh, Ted ventures into Colorado. He's taken it to a different state. So Karen Campbell disappears from the Wildwood Inn in Snowmass, where she was vacationing with her fiance and children. She disappeared between the elevators and the front room of her door, a span of 50 feet. Veilski instructor Julie Cunningham disappears in March of 1975.

Denise Alverson in April in Grand Junction in May. Lynette Culver disappears in Idaho from the grounds of her junior high school. In June, Susan Curtis disappears in Utah. None of these bodies have ever been found. Back in Washington, Ted Bundy's name had made it onto four different suspect lists for four different reasons. And he was finally on the, uh, in the top 25 list of people, um, to be investigated. Um, when a call came in from Utah, sorry, I just started thinking about their stuff.

Uh, what am I going to do tomorrow? Um, okay, so here's what happened. Back in Utah, Ted had failed to stop for routine traffic violation. Um, and those routine traffic violations will always get you. They will get you. I think from what I remember in the book, but I'm not positive, he was driving by how he was basically casing a house and a cop was like, what are you doing? You're being a creep.

Yeah. And then when he went to pull him over, he wouldn't pull over. And so he finally, he got him, like, got him out of the car. And then, uh, when he searched his car, he found a crowbar, a ski mask, handcuffs, trash bags, and an ice pick, you know, car stuff. Oh, so Detective Jerry Thompson, um, connected the Volkswagen to Carol Deranch's kidnapping case and they get a warrant to search Ted's apartment where they find a brochure for the Wildwood Inn and when they put him in a lineup, Carol Deranch comes in and as well as several

of the bountiful, um, high school play witnesses and they all pick him out as officer Roseland. So this is his first conviction. I know only four more hours, um, I was typing this, I'm like, maybe I bail before he ever goes to jail. I mean, just like, um, there's no, you have to tell the whole thing. So basically here's what happens. He's tried and convicted of the kidnapping case. He sentenced to 15 years and they, when they were taking him to trial during the recesses,

is the officers, he was so charming and chatty and cool and chill that the officer started letting him use the law library during the recesses of his own trial, you know, just to be cool. So on June 7th, one day while he's in the law bar library, he sees his chance and he jumps out a second story window when he lands, he breaks his ankle and then he runs for it and he escapes into the mountains and he survives for six days. He had found, he walked until he found a cabin. He rested for a little while at one point, um, an armed citizen who was up there specifically

to search for escapy, Ted Bundy comes upon him and Ted talks his way out of it and just continues on his way. He was a slick, slightly British accented motherfucker, this guy. That's like, that's yes. He must have had great like eyes or something. What was it about Ted? Good hairline. Yeah.

Just a strong fucking hairline. Jesus. What the shit? Kind of like come, came down a little bit of a V but not like a vampire V. Yeah. Framed his face. Just framed it up nice. Yeah.

Some, some curls. Nice seventies, uh, sideburns. Yeah. Just a nice thick sideburn here, but not threatening. No, no, no, no, no. I'm like not unkempt. No, no. All right.

You could, he brushed his hair 500 times every morning. Okay. He's finally recaptured, brought back to jail, immediately starts working on a new escape plan. He cuts a hole in the ceiling into the crawl space and then starts dieting. He loses weight, loses weight, loses weight till finally, um, he, oh, the, he finds out that they're going to move, uh, the venue of his next of the trial. So he, right now he is in the, um, I think he's in evergreen, um, jail and it's super

old fashioned. And so he's like, I got to do it now. I can't wait anymore. So he crawls up into this crawl space, crawls across and basically goes into right above the jailer's apartment, which is part, another part of the jail, but it's like where the people work, where they actually lived in the jail. He drops down into the jailer's linen closet and luckily the jailer and his wife were at the movies that night.

So he just puts on some of that guy's clothes and fucking walks out the front door. You may. It's like, I'm like, what, what was your diet and can I, he's just, it was super, he was super paleo. He was like one of the first paleo guys. Do you think there's like a, a Bundy diet app? Yeah. He actually invented CrossFit by sawing the ceiling.

Oh, I thought you were by stabbing them. Oh, no, no. Oh, that's why they made that noise preemptively before they heard the rest of my hilarious joke. Okay. Here's what he did. Uh, so crazy. He hitchhikes to Vale, then he takes a bus to Denver, then he takes a plane to Chicago.

He eventually ends up in Tallahassee, Florida. And this is the big fucking hideous finale. That's so insane. At 3 a.m. on Sunday, January 15th, 1978, Ted Bundy crept into the unlocked back door of the Kyle mega sorority house at Florida State University, right? And he bludgeoned and strangled, um, four sorority girls, each roommates. So he went into the first room and killed Lisa Levy and Margaret Bowman. He beat Margaret to death and then, uh, he had restrained Lisa, beat Margaret to death,

then began to beat Lisa to death and brutally raped her and then murdered her. Um, then undetected, he snuck down the hallway and did the same thing in the next room to roommates Karen Chandler and Kathy Kleiner. And then he just walked out of the house. Yeah. Then, then he walked down the street, everyone in the audience is like, I don't like true crime anymore. Then he walked down the street, he broke into a house and he did the same thing to a girl

named Cheryl Thomas, except she survived. Uh, yeah, he, he basically had already killed, um, for women that night. So he was getting a little tired and he, she was fighting him and then, and then people came up from downstairs cause they heard so much banging and he was basically like beating her with a big piece of wood and they, and he ran out. Um, so she ended up surviving. Um, then on February 9th, so like a month later, he basically hides up in his weird apartment and he's basically super crazy and like at the end, he probably knew he was

at the end. On February 9th in Lake City, he abducted and raped a 12 year old girl named Kimberly Leach and then he stole another Volkswagen to drive across the state. But in Pensacola, uh, an officer noticed the stolen plates and pulled him over and he got out of the car and then immediately started fighting with the cop and the cop gets him down, cuffs him, gets him in the car and Ted Bundy says to the cop, I wish you'd killed me. Uh, right.

Um, so, uh, he's charged for the Tallahassee and Lake City murders. He stands trial in Miami for the Kai Omega murders and the Kai, uh, there was a Kai Omega member named Nita Neary who saw him leave and went to court and identified him and that testimony as, as well as the bite marks that he left on his victims, um, were the evidence that basically convicted him. Um, now everyone's heard of this, but like, of course, Ted Bundy being the asshole that he is, decided he was going to represent himself in a couple of these cases. So in the Kimberly Leach case, he decided he would be the lawyer and at one point he

called former coworker Carol Boone to the stand. And then in the middle of the, um, court case, he proposed marriage to Carol Boone. She said, yes, everybody. She said, yes. Oh yeah. They actually had con, a conjugal visit and he has a daughter. That's not, no, or, or he could be the grandfather. We don't know, but the good news is he was convicted on all counts and he was sentenced

to death. And on January 24th of 1989, Ted Bundy was executed in the electric chair in Florida. Yeah. He had confessed to 30 murders, but it is estimated that there's a chance that he is responsible for the death of over a hundred women. Whoa. It's fucking crazy. And here's a slight upturn, not great, but whatever.

Oh, first of all, um, Ted Bundy claimed that porn is the reason that he became a serial killer. I'm just saying, watch yourselves. We know what you're up to. He's so cavalier about porn these days. Well it made Ted Bundy, um, but from death row, when they were, uh, looking for the Green River Killer, um, uh, Ted Bundy contacted, uh, Detective Dave Reichert. This is some local shit, huh?

We hate Dave Reichert, too. We're arrested right outside the theater. It was a setup. They hate it in first. Anyhow, however you feel about him, Ted Bundy called him and said, I can help you catch the Green River Killer cause I know how these motherfuckers think. And then he did, uh, clearly there's a problem with that. I don't know.

I don't know what's going on. Um, I bet it has to do with the Green River Killer. Oh, says my mom, I still hate her. So. Now we move into the, uh, Trump portion of the show. Wrong. Oh, you will cap it off with this and rule had the best quote. She said, people like Ted can fool you completely.

I'd been a cop, I had all that psychology, but his mask was perfect. I say that long acquaintance can help you, I say that long acquaintance can help you know someone, but you can never really be sure. Ooh. Ah! Yeah, that's it.

That's Ted Bunny. That's your guy. Amazing. That's it? Do we have time? I don't know. That's it, right? Yeah.

I think that's it, you guys. Yeah, that's every one thing. Thank you so much for coming out to this show. Yeah, and thanks for being part of this. That was super, super fun. Yeah, you guys are, we love it here. It was very cool. Thank you for being here.

We're mad at you for yelling at us about Dave Riker, but we'll talk about it at a different time. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye.