My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 62 - Trust Issues & Ice Skate Shoes

Episode Date: March 30, 2017

On this week's MFM, Karen and Georgia tell stories from the road and then segue into the infamous Moors murders and the lesser known Gorilla Killer.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Welcome to my favorite murder episode. What is it? 67? Is it? I think so. Wow. It's up there. We're pushing 70, baby. Holy crap. I know that's kind of weird. Yeah, we're still kind of a baby, but we're not. We're like one of those old babies that's at New Year's that you're like, should that baby still be breastfeeding? You're like, that baby shouldn't be up this late and it shouldn't be wearing a suit. No, no. Isn't it weird to see older babies

with diapers and I don't know how old babies are supposed to be when they start wearing diapers and you're like, is that not right? You mean the ones that are also wearing polo shirts? That's like then stand around with long hair, drinking bottles, like they were on the place. Like adults? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hey, I met a girl today who met Ted Bundy's brother. Really? Yeah. She said that she grew up like in the town, but she was a lot younger and she said that she was at a bar one time back home and her friend introduced her to this guy and she was like, the whole time was like, there's something about his face. It looks familiar. And then she said, but he also had this like in his eyes, this incredible look of sadness. And when he left,

her friend was like, that's Ted Bundy's little brother. Oh, wow. I know. That's crazy. I know. Can you imagine? Did he have a little brother? Well, maybe she was lying. I don't know. I mean, I know I really, I'm the last person who would know for sure. And I did Ted Bundy on this show. Well, why would you know? But I mean, it doesn't stick with me. But I know he had an older sister that also was his mom. Right. I wonder if his little brother, if he had one, was his mom's sister. If it was same sit. If it was. If they figured that stuff out in the Bundy family after Ted left. Right. Or yeah, if it was. Yeah. Yeah. Still. Rabbit hole. I bet his last name wasn't Bundy. I think it was. Really? Yeah. So it was like, this is Mike Bundy. Peter, Mike Bundy. Peter,

Mike or Greg Bundy. The Bundy Bunch. The Bundy Bunch. Come on, Karen. Let me say it one more time. So wait, you didn't, when you said those three names, you didn't realize you were doing a Brady Bunch reference until, until that moment? First two, I didn't. Well, Greg, I did. Then you caught up to yourself and that's the moment of comedy. Is that it? That's the fun moment where you go. The comedy is writing itself. That's what that phrase means. It writes itself. It doesn't really. There's so much to learn. It reminds me of your awesome blossom moment on stage. You'll all know what we're talking about later on. If we decide to post it. Oh, yeah. It's just always a secret. Yeah. This is my favorite murder by the by if anyone is unsure.

Yeah. My favorite murder. That's Karen. I'm Georgia. We just got back from three shows in Portland that all are fucking awesome. Such a fun weekend and thank you for the donuts. Thank you for the laughter and the screaming. Thank you for lots of good stories and things to walk away from. Revolution Hall was such a fun place to perform. In case we don't post it, can you tell the story of the army crawl? Yes. So let's see. That was the second night? I think so. No, no, no. It was the first night, second show. Okay. Yes. First night, second show. So thank you. We were at the end and I had picked a girl to do her hometown murder. We call someone up from the audience. And she was telling the story about how

her cousin found a dead body. And it was immediately my favorite story we've had so far because it was all the things that I enjoy, which is her cousin happening upon a dead body in a creek, come to find out that's the dead body of a rapist and kidnapper, perhaps murderer, who was on the lamb. So we were happy about him being dead. So it didn't feel gross. Yeah. No guilt about the body, about the finding of the body or the discussion of the finding of the body. And as this girl is telling the story, she tells the whole story of the crime he did right before he went on the lamb and then somehow died in the creek. They don't know. And she, I asked a specific question about, did your cousin tell you anything

about what it felt like to find the body or touch the body or whatever? And she said she didn't know. And then they went, Georgia said something, they went on to talking. I look over Georgia's shoulder and there is a girl, um, Elmer Fudd style, sneaking down the aisle on stage. I watched her come up the aisle, sneaking like a cartoon with her shoulders up and her knees raised high, sneaking, and then she does an army roll onto the stage. And that's when I interrupt the two of them. And then I saw before this happened, I saw Karen's face over my shoulder and it was like, I got chills just looking at your face cause you looked like horrified. And I slowly turn around in slow motion. There's a girl walking towards us on stage. And I say, that's not cool. You

have to get off the stage right now. You went straight up to her. I was just like, because I'm thinking just drunk, you know, the beers at Revolution Hall were $3. People were definitely partying. It was a second show. It was a bit rowdy. But she finally explains that she is the girl telling the story, sister. I want to see that girl's name was Nicole, but I don't remember. No idea. There's no way. Um, finally, we realized she's okay to be there. And the only reason she came up on stage was because she knew the answer to the question I was asking. And sister fashion, she needed to correct her sister. Yes. And her sister was doing something wrong. Correct. An ad. Right. Uh, but, and then gave us great additional information. And then it

turned out to be the greatest hometown, two-parter, double sister storytelling. Yeah. But then the next night too, another sister came up. That was weird. Yes. That was super weird. But it was just like, fine. It was sisters backing up sisters weekend, all weekend in Portland. It was great. It was so much fun. Everybody was so great. Yeah. It really added. Yeah. Thank you, Portland. Um, so I have a correction score. Oh, Karen. Yes. I have to apologize. Hobo is an absolutely okay word to say. It is. And it doesn't mean anything derogatory. It's just a, what is it called, you know, and, uh, it's a snip snap. It's a snip snap and everything's fine. Were you thinking of bum? I guess a couple of people suggested that. I probably was putting

them together. I just, in my mind though, still like walking by a homeless person and saying, like that hobo just sounds so, maybe it's just the way it sounds in my head. You know what I mean? Yes. It's, it's contextual and interpretive, but the word itself is not from like, and I corrected you so hard and I'm sorry. Oh, thank you for apologizing. That's very, very nice of you. Um, I found out, do you know, and this is very separate, but it's, this reminds me of it because none of us want to be an asshole or talk about people asshole style. And I'm still, I think this podcast has made me even more aware of like everything about that. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. We hear about it all the time. All the time. Um, did you know that the,

when you call the sprinkles that you put on top of a Sunday jimmies, that that's racist? I would never use that word. I never knew it. I always called them that. I always called them that. I think it's racist. Yeah. I think that a lot of things I just assume are racist and this sound bad like that. Why does it sound bad? Because I think I've heard before what the, what's the background called? It might be like, like a, like a nicknamey thing for Jim Crow. Cause they're chocolate. Oh. So it's, once someone explained it to me, I said it out loud somewhere and someone turned around and was like, what are you doing? And I was like, what do you mean? Isn't it weird when people like, you didn't know that one, but when people say a word that

you're like, are you like the R word for people who are mentally challenged? Yes. Yes. That people, that I know that live in California, like Los Angeles have, I've heard people say that word and I'm like, how the fuck do you not know that you don't use that word? It's got to feel bad. Yeah. There was a really good PSA video that was put out about using the R word that I really loved. It was back, it was when I was still on Facebook. So it was like at least five years ago or six years ago. I know. It's a brag. I'll bring it up anytime I can. I'm no longer on Facebook. I still call Starbucks coffee small, medium, large. So I think you and I are in the same, but you totally made fun of me on the live show, which I was like, fair. I sound like I'm on

Facebook. You went into that bit and I'm like, I can't let you, I can't let you, but even it, just even as it, even as a discussion, I'm not going to let you do it. It's like if I called coffee Java, like, well, no, it's as if you were like airplane food is small. It was that style. I totally wasn't making a joke. I was just really angry about it. But yes, completely. Anyways, go on. Anyhow. PSA. No, no, just, you know, you were talking about a PSA. No, I know. I was just going to say it's, it's that kind of thing of if it feels bad, don't do it. And you know it feels bad when you, because you're never not using that in a anything but a derogatory way. And it was in a movie. The other yesterday, I was just, I was so tired, just laying there watching TV all day

long. There was this terrible movie came on. And at one point in the movie, and it was from the early 2000s, this girl says it. She's just like, that's so retarded. And it was, it sounded so bad. It just, people don't really do it anymore. Yeah. At least, at least not in movies and in Los Angeles. I mean, all those words, I think, you know, well, that's the thing of certain parts of the country. It's not even known, but that's maybe just naive. Well, it's also the thing people fight because they're like, Oh, the social justice or whatever, where it's like, or just don't insult people if you don't need to. Yeah. Why I want, I don't mean it's slang. And it's like, you don't need it. Right. You don't need it. There's so many words. It's about the exploration and use of

words. Yeah. I mean, man, the world, I could say some words that are horrifying that I love saying. Like, yeah, you can say that. I know. I had a t-shirt that I bought when I lived, like when I was in my 20s, early 20s that had, it looked like the Coke logo, but it said content instead. And I wore it one day and was so self-conscious and freaked out by every, because I of course, got 1000 dirty looks and whatever for it, but I never wore it again. I'm now blushing that I said that word. Like, that's how bad I am at this. But over in Jolly Old England, they say it, it's like saying jerk. Right. It's no big deal. Should I say twat now? No, you should never say that word. I fucking hate the word twat. I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually say it. It's very 70s.

Yeah. Speaking of England, we were allowed to tease. Speaking of England. She didn't like that. What's it called? That Segway. Segway. I was going to call it sequitur, but it's not Segway. That we're allowed to tease that we're going across the seas. Yes. Hello, London. And is it Ireland? Ireland. They're going to ban you now that you said it like that. No. That was actually really good. Oh, because you live there. Right? No, that was Scotland. Whatever. But that's where we're going, right? It's London. We have a couple shows in England. This is the tease. It's very cheesy because we don't know what we're talking about. A couple shows in England, a show in Ireland, and a couple shows in Australia. Yes. And New Zealand. I mean, we get to go to New Zealand.

Fuck yeah. We're kind of just like, we don't know if we have any listeners there, but we just really want to go to New Zealand. We want to see what it looks like. Yeah. That's going to be fun. So try to, if you're in New Zealand and you like this podcast, will you get a couple of your friends to like it so that we have at least 50 people at our show? That'd be great. That's the dream. The dream is 50. And if you need to bring farm animals or children, that's fine. We just need to fill up whatever your local church hall is. Please. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're going across, we're like Pitbull, we're becoming international. Um, like summertime. We'll let you know. Yeah. Yeah. Summer or fall. I think summer. I think summer and anyway, you'll hear

more about it and it'll be this vague when you hear about it again. Yeah. So don't, don't expect to get tickets. Um, what else? Anything? You got any corrections? I feel like it's been so long since we podcasted because we've been doing live shows. Yes. And it's my fault. I made the terrible mistake of I forget that this is a weekly podcast we have to do. So Georgia, this was hilarious. I went left to do a great comedy show with Julian McCullough, his podcast, Julian Loves Music, at a casino, an hour outside of Tulsa. We did a comedy show and his live podcast. And while I was there, Georgia texted me, Hey, so tomorrow, do you want to get together and doodoo and doodoo? And I was like, I'm in Oklahoma. I'm going to be gone for the rest of the week. And I'm just permanently

gone. And it was like that realization of like, Oh, yeah, I have to, this happens every week. I need to catch up with what the reality of my life is. Yeah, what happened? Can't just leave. No, I can fuck up and, and I can have an excuse and get out of it. So I'm going to fuck up bad. Yeah, you got, well, you got a free one now. Got a freebie. Yeah. Right as I'm about to go like, what the, and then you're going to be like Tulsa. And I'll be like, we'll have a nice handshake. Yeah. Moving on. Yeah. Sorry I broke down your house. Look, I'm sorry that I love Arson. Tulsa. Do you go first to do, I think we should start over because do you want to go first or do you want me to go first?

Well, I went first last time. Did you? Oh yeah. The live show. I mean, don't we have to follow just how we're doing it as opposed to what airs? I don't know. I think that's what we should do. It's for us. And nobody cares. Nobody cares. And I don't think we care that much. I don't care. Okay, great. No, wait, now you're mad. No, I'm like, why do I care? Like, why have I been, well, it used to matter. Did it? Well, when we were like back to back. That's true. All right. It felt like. So I just finished listening to this book called The Devil All the Time by Donald Ray Pollock, which is a really fucking great book, a bunch of different stories of other people and they're all and, you know, intertwined somehow, which I love.

And this one had a husband, wife, murder team, which I know we've talked about and neither of us kind of are that interested in it or like, that's not our first pick. And it's so weird and creepy. So I'm doing one. Okay. You're going outside your comfort zone of cold cases and lesser known cases. That's your passion. Unsolved familial side. I mean, that's your jam. That's my jam. But now you're, you're taking a stretch and speaking of England again. Rob keeps speaking of England. This is the Moore's murders. Okay. So 1961, 18 year old typist Myra Hindley meets Ian Brady. Ian was born in Glasgow in a slum on January 2nd, 1938 to a single mother named Peggy. And when he's four months old, she fucking advertises him for adoption in a news agents

shop window. Oh man. There's a lot of words in here that I normally wouldn't use in their English. Like news agents? Like news agent and shop window. And I'm sure it's advertisement, not advertise. Peggy visits him at his foster family regularly until he becomes a teenager without letting him know that that's his mom. What? I know. But I guess his foster family is good. Yeah. So, but he still has extreme temper tantrums and they end with him banging his head on the floor, which has got to be cool to see a toddler doing that. And despite, despite being exceptionally bright, he did poorly in school. He's socially awkward, considered a quote sissy at sports. And, and he's cruel to animals pretty quickly. And it range from quote stoning dogs,

decapitating rabbits. And I want to know if I can't read that. It's about cat. He later tells Myra, his later girlfriend that he killed his first cat when he was 10 years old. Like that was a brag for him. That's like first date chit chat for him. Yeah, it gets worse. Okay. At 13, Ian had his first was charged with house breaking, house breaking. As a teenager, he develops, he taught a whole house how to go to the bathroom. Oh, no. Let's do it. As a teenager, he develops a fascination with the writings of Nietzsche and with Nazism, red flag. Yeah. In 1959, he learns bookkeeping in prison, and he gets a job as a stock clerk. And he buys his own audio recording equipment,

and he transfers Hitler's speeches onto vinyl records. Oh, like as a pastime? Yeah. Huh? Yeah, sounds fun. That's he sounds like a real, a real hoot. Yeah, go get her. Okay. In 1961, a new secretary starts at his work named Myra Hinley. On their first date, Ian takes her to see a movie about the Nuremberg trials. So that's their first date. Jesus. Not a, not Nietzsche and Nazism. Yeah. I mean, yes, Nazism. So guys, like, would you like to get to the movies with me? And you're like, sure, that's cool. And he's like kind of cute and has like fifties, just like back hair. He's older. Yeah. Yeah. He's like the cool guy at the office. He's got strong opinions. Right. He's not like the boys at school who don't like Nazism. Yeah,

he's got his arm up in the air a lot, just like what you're looking for. And then you meet at the movie theater. And it's the fucking Nuremberg trials. Yeah. Super chill. After they start dating, they read each other books about Nazi atrocities on their lunch break. He, Hinley, she starts to alter her appearance to replicate the Aryan ideal, bleaching her hair blonde and wearing red lipstick. And so Ian's really grooming her to become a subservient. And they start discussing committing crimes together, like robberies that would make them rich. But ultimately to the side that murder was more their style. Nice. Ian outlines a plan where Myra would wear a disguise, they'd abduct a child and take it to the Moors, where they would rape and murder and bury it there. And in 1963,

they took their first victim. Sorry. So in that discussion, it's hard enough to meet someone that you really get along with. Hey, how many siblings do you have? I just have one older sister. Do you want to murder children with me? Oh my God. I've been dreaming of that since I was young. Oh my God. How young? Since I was a child. Oh. That's the, what a risk. That's all I'm saying. Is you really, I guess the Nuremberg trials was really the test. Yeah. Of like, is she gonna go with this? Yeah. If you cry when a bunch of Nazis are being hung, hanged. Probably both. Then you know that, right. You know you found the one. You found the one. Also, I have seen Myra Hindley's mugshot. Yeah. As a blonde with that lipstick on. Yeah. How do you feel about it? She was,

she was definitely a fall winter. Let's just say it that way. She was definitely not a blonde. No. It's not complimentary to her face. I mean, I had bleached blonde hair once and it didn't look good and I knew it immediately. Yeah. And I wouldn't have done it for a guy. What? What did you do? I also wouldn't have killed anyone. Children. Children. Children and the mores. Okay. In 1963 into the lie for the first victim, Ian tells Myra to drive her van around the area, local area, while he follows behind in his motorcycle. And when he sees a victim that he wants, he wants, he's going to flash his headlights at her, signaling her to stop over and offer that person a ride. So they see a young girl walking towards them and Ian signals her to stop. She

doesn't do until they pass her. And Brady's like, what the fuck? And she's like, I know that girl. I don't want to take her. So instead at 8pm, Ian spots 16 year old Pauline Reed on her way to a dance. And Pauline is a neighbor of Hindley's, who's a friend of her younger sister Maureen. So she was okay with getting into the van with Hindley, who then asked if she would mind helping to search for an expensive glove she had lost on Saddlemore, Saddleworth Moore on a tract of open, on Saddleworth Moore. And then I was like, you know what? I didn't know what a Moore was, aside from photos. Nice. So I thought I'd explain to people what it was. It's basically just an open, big, open, uncultivated field, like picture where, you know, British people go shooting

and bury bodies. Yes. It's like a rocky, hilly, open grassland-y situation. For miles and miles. Miles and miles. Yeah. So she wanted her to come find her glove with her. And Pauline says she's in no hurry and agrees. When they get to the moor, Brady arrives shortly afterwards on her motorcycle and Hindley introduces him to Reed as her boyfriend. And then he'd also come to find the glove. And then Hindley claims that Brady took Reed into the moor while Hindley just hung out in the van. After about 30 minutes, Brady comes back alone and takes her back to the spot where Reed lay dying. Her throat had been cut with a large knife and the collar of her coat had been pushed into the wound, which sounds so horrific. He tells Hindley to stay with Reed while he goes

and gets a spade that he had hidden nearby on a previous visit to bury the body. Hindley notices that Pauline's coat is undone and her clothes were in disarray, guessing that she had been sexually assaulted. I mean, she claimed she wasn't there witnessing it, but let's fucking come on now. Right. But Hindley later claims that she assisted him with a sexual assault. And she turned on that story. He says it's incorrect. Oh, oh, am I getting their names wrong? Sorry, I that would be in character. Got it. I see now. So basically, she says I wasn't there and later on he's like, Oh, no, she was there and helped me out. Yeah. Got it. Okay. Okay. Then on then the early evening of November 23rd, 1963, she approaches, sorry, Myra approaches a 12 year

old boy named John Kilbride at a market in Lancashire and offers him a lift home on the pretext that his parents would be worried about him for being out so late and offers him also a bottle of sherry. And he as 12 years old is like, hell yeah. But then they're like, well, we have to go make a detour to collect it. And that also we need help finding a glove and a more. So he's like, okay. And then when they get to the more Brady takes the child and again, Hindley says she waits in the car while Brady sexually assaults Kilbride and attempts to slit his throat with a six inch serrated blade before fatally strangling him with a piece of string. So this guy's just a fucking animal animal monster psychopath. Okay. Then in the early evening of June 16, 1964.

So this all happens within a couple years, two years. Then in the early evening of June, 1964, 12 year old Keith Bennett is on his way to his grandma's house in Manchester when Hindley lures him into her mini pickup, which Brady was sitting in the back of asking if he'd help load some boxes. And then she said she'd drive him home afterwards. So she goes to the more again. And again, those boxes out on the more. Yeah, you know, I have to move from the more little 12 year old kid. I need help carrying some heavy shit. Ding, ding, ding. The ultimate red flag. Don't ask. Adults will not ask you for help. That's right, children. Yes. Also don't walk around your goddamn town by yourself all the time. I mean, not that that ever, ever happens

anymore. No, never. 30 minutes later, Brady comes back alone. And when Hindley supposedly asks how he killed Bennett, he says that he had sexually assaulted him and strangled him again with a piece of string. And they buried him out on the more. On December 26, 1964, Brady and Hindley visit a fairground in search of another victim. And they notice 10 year old Leslie Ann Downey standing beside one of the rides. When it becomes apparent that she's alone, they approach her and deliberately drop something from their shopping cart close by her and ask her for help carrying the packages to the car. What a sweet angel. She's 10. And she's like, Yes, I'll help you. She's at the carnival alone. Yes, I'm at a carnival alone and I'll help these two adults. And

they're like, this is why it's so creepy is it's a man and a woman. And in your mind, you're never, you know, like if you're hitchhiking and a couple stopped for you, a man and a woman, you feel safe. Yes, that's right. It's the old trick of having a woman there. It's so creepy. It's the worst. And also with little kids. It's so unfair. It's just like it goes against everything your instincts would tell you. Huge trick. Do you think that women it's more horrifying for women to kill children than for men? Like it's I feel like is it I feel equally horrified in every story that I hear of people that think it's okay to kill children or it like that need the like a compulsion to kill children. There's some yeah, just fucking end it because there's something

so wrong with you. I feel like what horrifies me more than the compulsion is the like is being okay with it. It's not even like like she might not have had a compulsion to kill children, but she went along with it anyways. So that to me is even more depraved because it's not even this like addiction that you have. She was doing it for her fucking boyfriend. Totally. Which is the I mean, you've known people are like now I'm into swing dancing in your life. That's so lame, but you never say anything. Right. This is like, she'll get over it. Just yeah, exactly. Just like we'll wait for this one to wind out and you'll hate him in eight months or whatever. But now this is like, it's very extreme. I bought a Vespa for a boy when I was

listen, I'm not going to lie. I mean, I thought it looked cute and I liked it, but I got it so that he would think I was cool. Yeah. Yeah. And I hated it. What'd you do? Proudly, I can say that the first bad experience that I had with a guy that was like that was someone who was secretly born again Christian. And then after we got together like unveiled that really he just wanted me to say the seven magic words that would enable me to go to heaven when I died. What are those magic words? I accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior. You just said him. Oh, well, yeah, I'm in. I was already in. Yeah. You know, the Catholic upbringing.

Was there like red flat? Like, like, was there looking back when you were dating like obvious things? Well, it was very short. So we were friends first. Everybody that I was friend, we had like the small group of friends and all the girls were in love with him. And then it was like he picked me. Oh my God. And you're like, I'm so special. Exactly. And then like a week later, he was like, I just need you to say these words and then come to my church with me. And then I don't really want to date you, but I need you to go to this church. He get a gold star. It was, yeah, seriously, it's like, did you get some kind of kickback for bringing me to the church? How many did you collect? And that's when I was like, Oh, this is this is like pathetically

not anything I thought it was. But if you were like this fucking idiot, you would have been a Christian. Exactly. So, but I feel like I learned early, the worst kind of most painful way of like, Oh, the ulterior motive thing, like the second it comes out where it's even now, even if it's like, do you like Star Wars? I'm like, goodbye. You fucking tricked me. How dare you? Oh my God. You got it. Like, it all has to come out immediately or else you don't trust them. That's right. Or I just don't trust them anyway. Anyhow, we'll talk about how I'm alone later. Listen, I have all the trust issues in the world. Don't even any who blah, blah, blah, blah, carry some packages, then she they needed to help carrying them into her house into their house.

So once inside the house, this sweet little girl is undressed. This is fucked up undressed, gagged and forced to pose for photos before being raped and killed. And Brady again states that it was Hindley who killed Leslie Ann Downey. No, I'm sorry, Ian states that it's actually the Myra who killed Leslie Ann Downey. But of course, she says it wasn't that she was running a bath for her and came back and she was dead, which is like, fuck you. You know, here's the thing, whatever the truth really is, it doesn't matter. Because at this point, you could have been sitting at home waiting for him to come back from the Moors. You're complicit, which means you might as well have been standing next to him in my opinion. Yeah. And it's, I mean, yeah, I agree.

I now want to thank the worst of you if you are involved in this at all. Yeah, it's not like it gets you off the hook somehow. Right. The next morning they take her body to Saddleworth Moor and is buried in a shallow grave. Okay, so towards the end, we're getting towards the end, on the evening of October 6, 1965, they go to the Manchester Central Railway Station. And Ian picks up a guy, a 17 year old guy named Edward Evans. And he introduces Myra as his sister. They drive back home, they're drinking a bottle of wine together. And Ian sends Myra to fetch her brother-in-law, fetch her brother-in-law. When they get back to the house, Myra tells her brother-in-law that to wait outside,

it's really weird. So basically, the brother-in-law who is Myra's sister's husband is kind of a small time crook. And the whole year, Ian has kind of been cultivating this friendship and like grooming him to help him with his crimes. And it's said that Smith is, David Smith is in awe of Ian. And basically, they kill this guy, Ian Evans, and try to get David Smith to go along with it, although he doesn't, he says he'll come back the next day to help bury the body. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, Hello Fresh has you covered. Hello Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable, so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year.

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with code murder20. That's up to 20 free meals plus free shipping on your first box when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. Hey, I'm Arisha. And I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain. In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, will tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy and how the pressure

to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. And so sorry, he doesn't want to be there for the murder. He's all good with the burial, though. Well, here's the thing. So he says he was in the kitchen and didn't know what happened. But what comes out of this either way is that when David Smith gets home to my real sister, he tells her what happens. And they're both like, let's go call the fucking cops. Oh, good. Yeah. Like, can you imagine calling cops on your sister like that? But also, was she always like this beast sister? I'm sure. Right? Yeah. Because, yeah, she must have been a sociopath to be just serial killing children. And she probably,

she probably suspects something is happening between them. They're being weird and secretive. They're creepy. Nazis. Nazis. A lot of Nazi behavior. Yeah. Never a good, never a good sign. Never. So they call the police from a nearby phone box. I'm not going to change them. I'm just going to keep saying them. But they bring a screwdriver and a knife just in case he Brady shows up. Oh fuck. You mean to the phone box? Yeah. To the phone box. Are you doing that scared that like the boogey man's just going to be like, hey. Yes. Yes. I mean, once you realize that that's what's happening. Yeah. Totally. So, but they don't even know that he's like, they thought maybe he just killed the dude that they were trying to fuck. Like they don't even

know that he's a child killer yet. Jesus Christ. Then, so the morning, the next morning, Superintendent Bob Talbot of the Cheshire Police arrive at the back door. He's wearing a borrowed Baker's overalls to cover his uniform. So she'll open the door. Nice. And he says his police officer comes in and that Ian is hanging out in the living room. He says he's investigating an act of violence involving guns. And let's see, looks around the house. There's a room that's locked. He goes into the room. And when they come back, they say that they discovered a trust up body and that he was being arrested on suspicion of murder. And he's claiming it was self-defense. They had gotten in a fight. Sorry, the trust up body is the 17 year old? Yeah. And he's saying we got in a fight

and it got out of hand. So we had to keep the body in a room. Right. And we were going to bury it. I thought you're going to say they found a room full of gloves. Right. Hidden gloves that they had found. Just stacked to the ceiling. Oh no. So Myra's not arrested with Ian, but she's questioned and she refuses to make any statement. She says it was an accident. They didn't have any evidence that she's involved. So she goes home and then Ian's charged with an accessory. No, no, no. Then October 11th, Myra's charged with an accessory to the murder of the 17 year old Ian. I haven't had words. And then they request a search of all Manchester's left luggage offices for any suitcases that belong to Ian Brady. And on October 15th, they find a suitcase that

belongs to him and inside where nine pornographic photos taken of a young girl naked and with scarf tied around her mouth and a 13 minute tape recording of her screaming and pleading for help. Oh God. And Ann Downey, Leslie Ann Downey's mom listens to the fucking tape. Can you fucking imagine? That's John Walsh action. Right. That's fucked up. What did he do? He looked at photos of bodies. No, he listened to an audio tape of a little kid getting murdered to find out if it was Adam. Adam, right? His son was Adam. And it wasn't. So he just, yeah, that's the worst thing of all time. I'm just nauseous thinking about that. It's horrible. So she says it's definitely her 10 year old daughter. And then the police are searching their house and find an old schoolbook that has

John Kilbride's name in it, the 12 year old who went missing. They also find a large collection of photos of in the house, which seem to be taken on Saddleworth Moore. So they fucking go there and start searching them more. And on October 16th, police find an arm bone sticking out of the peat that the body, that was the body of Leslie Ann Downey. Can you imagine an arm bone sticking out of the peat? It's, you're just, it's just a big wide open field of gray grass, gray low grass and brambles, I think, right? And then you're just trying to walk it. And then there's just an arm bone. Then arm bone. Another site on the opposite side, they found the badly decomposed body of John Kilbride. And then the search is called off in November because of the weather. So Brady's charge

with the murder of Evan Edwards, 17 year old John Kilbride and Leslie Ann Downey and Myra Hindley with the murder of Evan Edwards and Leslie Ann Downey. They plead not guilty to the charges that on May 6th, deliberating for two hours, the jury finds Brady guilty of all three murders and Hindley guilty of the murders of the two people. The Brady sentenced to three life sentences and Hindley was given two. On February 2nd, 1987, Myra made a formal confession to the police admitting her involvement in all five murders. On July 1st, 1987, Reid's body is discovered only a hundred yards from the place where Leslie Ann Downey had been found. Keith Bennett's body has still never been found and his family continues to search the more. On November 15, 2002, at age

60, Myra died from bronchial pneumonia caused by heart disease and he's still motherfucking alive. Whoa, really? Almost positive. Oh, sorry. That's crazy. You know, people have been asking us to do these guys for a while. I know and I wouldn't have if I hadn't listened to this book just because you know, yeah, but I did it. It's so good. I mean, they're, yeah, they're like one of the earliest team creeps. I feel like back then it's so, you know, you have this small town and children and people are going missing and you just don't put it together because that didn't happen back then. Whereas now it's like he wouldn't be like a 12 year old's gone, they're a runaway. Yeah. Because that just was unthinkable. And I think when you switch between boys and girls,

it's also like kind of a way to throw off police. Yes. At ages, it was like a 12 year old boy, you know, 16 year old girl, like it was kind of all over the map in terms of probably how they were thinking. Totally. And also just the fact that she, that one girl was her little sister's friend is so fucking evil. It's crazy. It's just like, yeah, the, the trust aspect. And then also the other way of Myra, you're so into your boyfriend that you're, you are now like his right hand man. Yeah. Which she argues is like, no, he had brainwashed me and I was under his command and all this shit. And he groomed me to be his, which was like, no, yeah, but only to an extent. I mean, yeah, that could be true. But I don't think that that's an excuse for what you did.

It's, you know, here's the thing, whether it's true or not, you still did it. Totally. That's the problem. I mean, at any point you could have run away and call the police. Yeah. Because did she, aside from brainwashing, did she claim he was abusive or anything? It sounds like they were like, we're stoked Nazis that are into killing of that, of being abusive. And I bet that if she hadn't died, she would have been let out of prison at some point. Yeah. Cause she was so old. Yeah. Because yeah, because yeah, I bet she would have. That's like the Paul Bernardo and, and Carla Hamulka, she got out of prison. She's out of prison now. I bet she would have gotten out. Yeah, I bet she would have. Oh, it's so creepy. So creepy. So crazy. Um, cool. So that is the

more murders. They are what last podcast on love calls heavy hitters. They're like famous, big, famous ones. That's good. Mine is the opposite of that. Mine is I went a Georgia Hardstock style. What'd you call me? Did you say hard stock? No. Stark. Stark, but my mouth did a weird thing at the end, which it does sometimes. It's my new thing. Sorry. I sound like I'm slurring, but I have been sober for quite some time or at least I should specify don't drink. Right. There's some people who are like, your sobriety means a lot to me. And then I'm like, well, I'd stopped drinking in 1997, but I'm definitely on meth. Just keep it in mind, everybody. Okay. So when we were in Portland, I did the thing that you were just talking about where

we had three shows, we had three murders. I only learned that we had a third show or at least it was reminded we had a third show, like the night, the day of the first day I was there. Stephen texted me and he was like, I said, so I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this. And he goes, okay, and what's your third one? And I was, and I just wrote back, no, no, no. On Saturday? No, Friday. Okay. Yeah. Oh my God. Or maybe it was Thursday. It was late for me because I was like, are you kidding me? I have to do a whole nother one. Yeah. No, that's like, man, we need, you and I, I'm not saying you, I'm not saying we need to get our shit together with traveling because there has not been a fucking day when we're traveling

that I am not scrambling. Yes. What is it about us? We just, I think you and I both just work better when we're under pressure. That's usually most writers are like that and are, and are so scared of failing and dread work so much that you put it off to the last minute. Well, because, and I, I will say this for myself, typing is not writing. So when you write for things like this, it is reading and kind of processing and figuring out a way you're going to tell a story. Right. The problem is that if you do it last minute, you're, then you're just read, you're reading something you cut and paste as opposed to telling a good story and there's no personality in it. Exactly. And so, but I'm weird. I'm like, sorry, whatever. No, no. When I get it, when I sit down

and start working on the story that I like, I'm so happy and I'm so stoked and it's like my favorite part of the week. Yeah. But getting to that spot is so fucking hard for me. It's the bridge. It's the bridge to doing it. That's the hardest. Yeah. That's when I start doing a lot of laundry. I start wiping down surfaces that are already clean. I have, I don't do anything. Oh, just sit there frozen. Yes. So, okay. So here's the thing. In my panic of going third murder, I start working on this fucking guy, but he killed so many people across the nation that he didn't feel like a Portland killer to me. Okay. And I was very angry at him. But luckily he's still there for me because the second we get back, we have to record again. And

so I was like, well, I'm going to go back. He supports you. That's right. Earl Leonard Nelson, the guerrilla killer. Have you ever heard of him? No. All right. Does he kill guerrillas? That's stupid. That's the dumbest joke. No, no, no. It's the dumbest name. What a bomber. Was he like, oh man. Oh, that's so insulting. Well, I've read, so this is one of those ones. I should say, Murderpedia is one of my favorite websites. It is an aggregate site where they just, they bring you all the articles and anything written about the killer you've looked up. It's not like Wikipedia where it's like, here is this paragraph by paragraph of what happened. It's like, here's an article from 2006. Here's one from 1967. Yes. It's the best. But you also then

in reading all the articles about the one person realize how this guy, it was like, he was called the guerrilla killer because of his features. He was called the guerrilla killer because he used to walk on his hands. He was called the guerrilla killer because it took so much strength to kill these women. And he rarely used a weapon. He killed them with his hands, whatever. Yeah, it's that kind of situation. But still, all that being said, Murderpedia works like Wikipedia. So if you use it or like it, I recommend you give them five bucks because I want it to exist always because it's such a great site for research for this. It makes my life so much easier. Earl Nelson, the guerrilla killer, not like that. When you think of crimes of the early

at 20th century as Karen, which I do all the time, you think the Lindbergh baby kidnapping and murder, you think Al Capone and Eliot Ness and the mafia crimes with prohibition. Whoops. You think of Leopold and Loeb. But meanwhile, while all of those things were happening, the first known American serial sex killer was on a rampage. And nobody knows about it. Or few people do. The Bay Area newspapers, because he started in the San Francisco Bay Area, called him the Dark Strangler because of his ability. So much better. Yeah, I know, right? Because he could slip in and out of these houses without being seen, sometimes in broad daylight. And later on, he was called the guerrilla killer because he murdered women with his bare hands.

But it turns out he was just plain old psychotic Earl Leonard Nelson. So Earl Nelson's mother and father both died of syphilis before he reached the age of two. That's a rough start. That's just your kickoff. That's just downhill. Yeah. That's like the bottom of the hill. And then you keep on going down. Then you're down in the sewer area. You're like, I'm at the bottom. Both of my parents don't have noses. So he's sent to San Francisco to be raised by his maternal grandmother, who is a devout Pentecostal. So he's got a fun and damaging childhood from a Bible thumping old lady grandmother. It said he was already a quiet, morbid kid with a violent temper. And he was expelled from school at age seven for being

incorrigible. Age seven. That sounds cute. Incorrigible. What's his name again? Earl. Earl, you're incorrigible. Earl. But he then at age 10 is hit by a street car while riding his bicycle. He has a head injury. He's in a coma for six days. And when he wakes up, his behavior becomes even more erratic. He begins suffering from frequent headaches, memory loss, and eventually migraines. Jesus. So now his moody and his moody, angry periods are broken up by periods of mania in which he takes to walking on his hands or lifting heavy chairs with his teeth. Can you imagine we saw a fucking 11 year old lifting a fucking chair with a fucking his fucking teeth? A little 11 year old where you're like, Earl, please put that down. Earl,

sit down and eat your dinner. Eat your peanut butter sandwich. You don't need to do that with the chair anymore. This is also back when everything was made of solid wood. The fucking oak chair. He's picking it up with his teeth because he's like, I got to get this out of him. Oh God. Okay. So it's quoted as saying this is my favorite quote on murder pedia about him. As a young man, Nelson was a daydreamer and a compulsive masturbator. You have to pick one of those. You can't be both. I think they go together nicely because it's like whistling hands and pockets. What is the nightmare equivalent of a daydream? A chronic masturbator. We both had the answer. Also, 80% of most serial killers are chronic

masturbators as children. That's one of those. That's one of those Harold Schechter look out for this red flag things. As a team, he was a regular at the bars and brothels of the Barbary Coast, which was like the red like district of turn of the century San Francisco. When he was 18, he broke into a cabin that he thought was abandoned and he was arrested and spent two years in San Quentin for it. Fuck. Can you imagine being a teenager in San Quentin? I bet it wasn't that cool. No. So he enlists in the Navy. He gets kicked out for behaving oddly and erratically. He actually was, he was, because it was World War one, he enlisted in and got kicked out of the military four times. Holy shit. And he just kept signing up under a different name and they would

take him because it was like active duty. They needed people and you're like, you're too crazy to go to the front lines. Yeah. We're, we're getting our asses kicked over like over there and you still can't come and just be a bullet catcher. So he, this, the last time he was in, he was in the Navy and he got kicked out because he refused to do anything but lie on his cot and rant about the great beast of revelation. So he was just a crazy Bible thumper. And he ends up, oh, I said, he refused to do anything but lioness caught and rant about the great beast of revelation a.k.a. Dreamster baiting. Dreamster baiting. That's what it is. That's what it is. So they commit him to Napa State Hospital, which was a very famous mental insane asylum in Northern

California. It was there that it was discovered. He had both gonorrhea and syphilis. Oh my fucking God. Yeah. Dude, you're, I mean, this isn't, your brain has no chance at this point, getting hit by a fucking car. You probably got, we're born with syphilis. Yeah. These things eat your brain. His brain was just never not inflamed. I almost feel bad for this guy until I probably find out what he does. Yeah. You won't feel bad later, but you can definitely feel bad for 10 year old. Yeah. Because he did not have it good. He was, there's a reason he was picking up chairs with his teeth. So he managed to escape three times from Napa State Hospital before the staff just stopped trying to find him, which is the opposite of the three strikes law.

So he, he goes back after the third time he escapes, he goes back, lives with his aunt again in San Francisco. His aunt gets him a job as a janitor at St. Mary's Hospital. St. Mary's Hospital is where my aunt, Mary, works full circle. Oh my God. He's your brother. The end. Okay. So there at St. Mary's Hospital, he meets and Mary's 58 year old, Spencer, Mary Martin. He's 24. Ooh, Mary. Uh-huh. She's very shy and reclusive. And he, and obviously an old maid, here comes Earl 58 years old. Well, I mean 58. Sorry. As a 47 year old, I'm going to say, yeah. Maybe she's single as five. Maybe she's not all May. I don't know. Um, well also this was back when you were supposed to get married when you were

14 and have six kids by the time you were 20. Right. So she was way out of the window with possibility, just kind of standing around St. Mary's Hospital, staring out the window, pulling her sweater across waiting for a 24 year old psychopath to save her. And then he shows up and then it comes. There he is, Earl. Um, so he turns out she's very shy and reclusive. He makes her life a living hell. He is insanely jealous. He refuses to bathe. He has terrible manners and an insatiable sex drive. What was their date? They're like dating life. Like the two of them, I think they, whatever the equivalent of the trials of Nuremberg, they went to see that every fucking weekend, right? Right. Also, Earl, um, has terrible migraine

attacks that sometimes leave him unable to walk. And one time during one of those attacks, he falls from a ladder, ladder at work and hits his head. Fucking fuck. Come on. Double head trauma. They don't cancel each other out. No. Now he's really nice. That would be amazing. He not got knocked back into place and, um, and he just started working for Habitat for Humanity. Just, he was like the chillest bro at the beach after that. That's the end of the story. And then she went on to kill people. Um, right? Oh, I just really quickly have to say total sidebar, but talking about chill bros at the beach. So Riz Ahmed, of course, is on my DVR recording. And so I finally brought myself to watch the

episode of girls that he's in. Did you watch it? I'm, I'm, I love the show. I'm caught up. Okay. He's in two episodes. Yes. Yeah. Him and Lena Dunham's character getting together. I'm just, I all I have to say is I'm really mad. Why? I'm really fucking, first of all, why? Like she is, because she wanted to make out, because Lena Dunham wanted to fucking make out with Riz Ahmed. Yeah. She made it happen. She was just like nonstop power eye contact. It made me less attracted to him because I don't like scrawny guys. And he's scrawny. It made me love him 10 times more than I already did because I was like, it was like, as if that was not a TV show. And I was like, why would you pick her?

Why didn't you pick me? I wasn't at that beach or that beach party. I didn't see you rapping. Yeah. I wasn't there to make it happen. And if I were there, I would have never been anywhere near you. Yeah. Not have talked to you. You wouldn't have the, the like balls to be like, that guy's going to want to fuck me. I'm going to go talk to him. That's right. I wouldn't know. Well, that's what I love. I mean, fuck, I love that about her. I do too. It's just, it was never even a question about him wanting to fuck her. Like, I know. It's just like, this is happening. I'm making it happen. This is the guy that's going to fuck me now, which actually does happen often. Yeah. But the thing, I agree with all of that, but I was just like, Oh, he's too scrawny.

Fuck you. Now I'm mad at you and her. All right. I should have never gone into that area. Sidebar. But it hurt me deeply. And I was surprised because I was like, what? I don't give a shit. And I knew what the plot was. It was such a stupid stoner. It was so great. I know, but I love that. Anyway. Okay, listen, here's what I'm telling you. He fucking falls off a ladder because of a migraine, double down head trauma. Oh, he leaves the hospital after two days because he won't stay there anymore, head wrapped in bandages. So he's just running around on street, like a lunatic with a head wound. Like fucking Frankenstein. Yes. And he goes back home. Now

he's more paranoid and violent with his wife. She's like, come on. Fuck. Yeah. She's like, this was already weird. I already doubted it, but I did it anyway. Now you're now I can't talk to my own brother without you freaking out. Like she, he would literally get jealous if she talked to her brother and she's 60. So one of the articles I read said that she had a nervous breakdown because of him, but they're just one. Either way, she divorces him within six months of them being married. And a little bit, but I wrote, although I like that he was way into older ladies. It gives me hope. Sometimes I have fun as I write these things. All right. So then you're going to get a sweet young thing like Riz Ahmed. That's right.

But not, not in his twenties doesn't pick shit up with his teeth. No. I thought you were trying. Yeah. Definitely a stoner. Yes. Someone chill with eyes that take up two thirds of his head. Anyhow, in 1921, he turns from burglary to sex crimes. He attempts to molest 12 year old Mary Nelson after seeing her playing in her basement and then deciding to pose as the gas man. So he sees a little girl playing in a basement, knocks on the door says he's the, from the gas company, her older brother, who's like in his early twenties, I think lets him in. He goes straight down to the basement and immediately attacks her. She fights him off, screaming. The brother hears, runs downstairs, goes to fight him. He, he like scorms past the brother runs outside.

The brother follows him runs after they fight in the street and then Earl punches this kid in the head and gets away. Oh no. Head injury. New head injury. Two hours later, Earl has picked up riding a trolley car. He's just like around. He's in the neighborhood. I know. Let's go to some sightseeing. Yeah. He's like, where's that super crooked street I've heard so much about. Um, that night in jail, he plucks out all of his eyebrows with his fingernails. Yes. So he's already a creep. Now he has no eyebrows. Yeah. Um, he's recommitted back to Napa state hospital and stays there for four years. So then he's released. And then I wrote, what do you think happens next? A, he gets a job as an accountant, lives a productive life in

molestation free light. B, he dreams to race his way into an early grave or C, the killings begin. Um, when I go with C. Yeah. The killings begin in 1926. So on February 20th, 60 year old Clara Newman answers the front door to a man inquiring about her rooms to let sign in her front window. The man tells her his name is Virgil Wilson. He's carrying a worn Bible and he's very polite. Clara brings him up to the room she's renting and there he turns from kindy kindly by a beloved to pure animal and strangles her to death. He rapes her dead body, leaves her dress bunched up around her waist and leaves. Um, on his way out, Clara's nephew sees the man in the front hall. He asks what the man is doing there. And the man says, tell your aunt, I want to rent the

room. I'll be back in an hour. So the nephew goes back to his books and they don't discover the body until in the attic room until that night. Oh my God. Two weeks later, um, he kills Laura Beale in San Jose in the exact same way. She is a landlady that's renting out a room. He comes holding a Bible so easy. Yes. And being like, I'm interested in your room. Um, at this time, the difference is he uses a belt to strangle her to death and she's found in the rental room naked from the waist down. Um, so then three months pass and then Earl's cross country killing spree starts. So he basically does the exact same thing over and over, like he'll kill a woman who's led, who's letting a room and then he like either stays in the city and does it again

or he jumps on a train and does it in a different city. So he does it everywhere. So on June 10th, he kills Lillian St. Mary who is 63 years old in San Francisco on June 24th. He kills Anna Russell who's 58 in Santa Barbara. Then he goes back up to Oakland and he kills Mary Nesbitt on August 16th on October 19th, 1926. This is all 1926. He kills Beatrice withers in Portland. She's only 35 and her body was stuffed into a trunk. Um, then the next day he kills Virginia Grant who's 59 in Portland. Her body is stuffed behind the furnace in her basement on October 21st, the day after that in Portland, he kills a Mabel fluke and she's hidden in the attic in the crawl space in the attic. What'd you say? Jesus. Oh, sorry. I thought you're asking a question on November

15th. He kills Blanche Myers who's 48 years old in Oregon city, November 18th. Willamina Edmonds, 56 back down in San Francisco. Then back up in Seattle on November 24th. He kills Flores Monks and then the next day, oh no, sorry, a month later he kills Elizabeth Beard in Council Bluffs. Um, so he's clearly hopped a train. Um, then he's in Kansas City on, uh, later in December, but somewhere between December 23rd and 28th, he kills Bonnie Pace in Kansas City. Jesus, fucking Christ. Yep. On December 28th, he, in Kansas City, he kills 28 year old Germania Harpin and her eight month old baby. Uh-huh. He's on a serious fucking spree. Then he goes quiet for months and then on April 27th of 1927 in Philadelphia, which is where he was from originally, where his

parents, the syphilitic super couple, uh, are there from Philadelphia. Um, he goes back there and kills Mary McConnell. She's 60 years old. Um, then he, uh, gets somehow to Buffalo and on May 30th, he kills Jenny Randolph, who's 35. Then he goes to Detroit and on June 1st, um, 1927, he kills Minnie May and, uh, a lodger in that same house, Mrs. Antwerp. They don't know how old she is, but she sounds old to me. Um, and two days later in Chicago, he kills Mary Siestima, Siestima, sorry, who's 27 years old. So by this time he knows the cops are after him. They are. Um, he's, I mean, he's just on like a killing spree. And they know it's one dude doing all of this. Yes. And the people, cause these are, a lot of these are boarding houses. So there's other

eyewitnesses in the boarding house, not just the lady who shows them the room. Sure. So he crosses the border up into Winnipeg to get away from the cops. Um, and he rents a room there on June 8th, uh, what my birthday? Oh, I did that at the live show too. I can't help it. How can you not? Uh, he actually was born, I completely relate because, um, Earl was born on May 12th and I was born on May 11th. So I was like, Oh, day after, but then it's him. All right. So he crosses the border into Winnipeg, rents a room and on June 8th, he strangles 14 year old Lola Cowan who is selling paper flowers door to door to help her very impoverished family. He stuffs her body under the bed, leaves that boarding house. And the next day he's wandering around

the same neighborhood in Winnipeg and he sees Emily Patterson, who's 35, cleaning her house. And he somehow gets himself inside her house. He strangles, he strangles her to death, rapes and mutilates her dead body and stuffs her under the bed, um, and leaves without being seen. So she's reported missing by her husband. And that night when her husband goes to go to sleep, he kneels down next to the bed to pray for strength and to pray to find his wife. And when he goes to stand up, his leg catches the bed spread and he looks down and sees his wife's wool sweater sticking out from underneath the bed. So he reaches underneath it and touches the dead body of his dead mutilated wife. Oh my God. If I didn't say dead so many times, that would have been a really

well told kind of build up. Well, that's this podcast. I mean, that is not who we really are deep down dead, dead, dead. So by the time Mr. Patterson calls the police and says that he has found his wife, the body of Lola Cowan has also been found. And the same morning of Mrs. Patterson's murder, Earl left the house went down, sold his clothes at a second hand store, took the money that he got for those clothes and goes down to a barber to get a shave. And when he sat in the chair, the barber had noticed that Earl had blood in his hair. So when the story of these murders comes out, the barber goes to the police and tells the story gives the description as does all of the people that live in the boarding house where Lola Cowan's body was

found because there's all kinds of people that saw that guy who stayed in that room. So at this point between the barber's description, the eyewitness accounts from the other boarding house, Earl Nelson's likeness is distributed across every province and border town in Canada. And there's a $1,500 reward posted for his capture. And Earl is arrested hopping onto a train. So here's the thing, he is a master escape artist. So once again, he escapes from jail. Yes, he's he, he can pick any lock. So they had taken his shoes, socks and belt when they put him into the jail cell. So he escapes with none of those things. And that night he finds a barn, he hides in the barn. And in this barn, he finds an old moth, eaten sweater, and a pair of ice skates. So he

pulls the blades off the ice skates and makes the ice skates into shoes. He doesn't have any shoes. I fucking love it. So because he's crazy. So then he goes when the next morning he leaves that barn and just goes fucking walking out. And he ends up rubbing a cigarette from a guy and chatting with him for a while because he doesn't think he can get caught because he's now been murdering women for a fucking year straight. And he's standing around smoking and chatting in ice skate shoes. And the guy's like, what up crazy and calls the cops. Yeah. Can you just, what if someone you knew just showed up in ice skate shoes to a party? Also where it was like he pulls the blades out. So was he walking on still was there like that one rim down at the

bottom? And there were no, there's no way they were his size. Yes. Like what are the chances of finding like a size 10 fucking ice skating shoes? His perfect ice skate shoes. No. Just imagine, I just want to picture a friend clomping over. He's just, he's, he's like he's walking down a gravel road in ice skate shoes. Perfect. Earl, you fucking idiot. All right. Become an accountant. You dumbass. Dumbass. So, so that this smoking guy, of course alerts the authorities. Earl's recaptured. He's taken back into custody. He's tried. He's after less than an hour of deliberation convicted of Emily Patterson and Lola Cowan's murders. And he sentenced to hang in Winnipeg on January 13th, 1928. One report said he struggled for 11 minutes before he died

with that hanging. But then another said he died instantaneously and then made a very specific note of saying how, how, why people would die, take too long to die. If the rope was too short. I think they would do that a lot for people they wanted to suffer. Really? Because what you want to happen when you hang someone is for their neck to break. Yeah. But if you, it's too short, right? And they fall, their neck doesn't break. They just slowly fucking choked to death. Yeah. Sounds horrifying. Yeah. Either way. Or if it's too long, it's they're like the snap doesn't happen. Right. You know, if something happens, and this happens, and if another, and it sucks. There's a, there's a choice you can make as the rope length decider.

Yeah. You're not new. It's not your first day. Yeah. And this guy, by the time they catch him and know who he is and what his history as the dark strangler gorilla killer is, they're like, I don't know, maybe make that thing seven feet long. Do you know they did that in Nuremberg when they killed a bunch of the ex Nazis? They made, they gave them the long rope special. They gave some of them, they purposely gave some, you know, 15 minutes of choking to death. Yeah. I mean, I watch Nuremberg movies too. And on your, your, Vince's first date? First date. I knew it. I knew you two were up to no good. Earl is suspected of more murders that didn't fit the gorilla killer dark strangler MO because of

those two cooling off periods. So after his first two murders, there were three months before that spree started. And they think that he killed other women, just not either not old or not landlady's or not strangled. I'm trying to know what he looks like, what personality was like. He's, he was stupid. He must have been stupid because he had his head a couple of times, right? I mean, I don't, they just said he was scary. His family members were scared of him and that, that, um, aunt that he would go back and live with, they were like, they said he was like a big kid and he was a big violent kid. So he kind of couldn't be reasoned with. So they just did whatever he wanted and hoped he would leave. Jesus was what the aunt said. So, uh,

the family was just totally scared of him. So apparently it was just super violent and weird as fuck. And there was actually a really good story of the aunt that time when he, um, got out of jail, escaped from Napa state mental hospital. He showed up at her window one night as it was raining and she said he turned, she turned around and saw, she said his eyes were black and he had a really weird hat on and he was just staring through the window in the rain and it scared the living shit out of her. So she let him in, but she basically convinced him, you better leave cause they're going to come here first to look for you. And she just got him to leave as soon as possible. Can you imagine like it scared her. And then even when she realized she knew it was,

she was still scared out of her fucking mind. It's like, Oh, okay. It's just you. Yeah. No. It's like, Oh, fuck it's you. Yeah. Um, yeah. So he's could possibly, I think they said between 20 and 26 confirmed victims, but they think there could be many more because he was also yeah, all across the nation and up into Canada. And a Harold Schecter who's wrote, so written so many great true crime books. Um, there's a book he wrote called bestial that he, where he talks about, um, Earl. Wow. Earl Leonard Nelson, the gorilla killer. Amazing. I've never fucking heard of that. Me either. And that's huge. Yeah. The first sexual serial killer. Yeah. I mean, not in America. Right. Okay. Is just because I thought the same thing where there was

that guy at Peter Curtin in Germany. There's a couple other ones, but this guy was like the first one they think they know of in America. That's a lot of fucking people. Yeah. Dude. A lot of old ladies just trying to rent a room. Oh man. Well, thank you. No, thank you. Should we say a thing we like? Yeah, let me think if I have anything. Didn't you say you were watching a show you really like? Yeah, but I can't find the name of it. Was it, um, fiction or nonfiction? It was nonfiction. It was like different kind of deaths. It's really cool, but I can't remember. I'll find out for next week. Okay. What about you? You say something and I'll think of something. Oh, okay. Um, fuck. Well, um, I'll say this.

When we were in Portland, I got to hang out with my friend Stacy, who you met and who was the greatest she runs a place called curious comedy theater in Portland. If you live there, um, they have improv shows there. They have standup shows there. Lots of cool standups performed there. I think Ron Lynch is going to be there next. She books really awesome people and we just had a really great time hanging out and, uh, it made my visit in Portland. It's just nice to have friends and that and Stacy and my friend Jason Lopez, who I, um, have known since I was 20, we used to work at the gap together. We used to get drunk in the Castro together. He's one of my oldest friends and he was there, um, both nights actually. I love that. Well, I can't. Okay. Well, I guess mine

is similar in that like this is the first time Vince came with me on a weekend tour and it was just like, I just meant so much to me to have him there and have his support and just like hang out with him and fuck man. I'm so, I haven't just blown away by him and I just want him to come with us all the time and he has to come with us. It was so great. And I just love having him around. I do too. My husband probably should, but that was a really awesome experience having him there. And you know how much fucking traveling anxiety I have and how much I hate leaving the house and how scared I get and how worried I get and having him there just kind of alleviated all of it, except missing the cats, but it alleviated all of it and it made it such a fun time for me instead

of like an anxious, scary time. Yeah. You were free to kind of just have your fun and do, do it. Yeah. Instead of, I think, I mean, it's not like you seemed insanely different than any other time, but, but it is nice to know that then you don't have all those worries on your shoulders. You can just kind of have fun. Yeah. It was nice. I mean, yes, I'm codependent, but it works for me. Lots of people are. Also, that's not codependent. You just have a great husband that you're grateful for. My therapist says it's not codependency. It's interdependency. And if it works for you, it's fine. I like interdependency. It's not nice. I want a slice of interdependency. Interdependency is good. Yeah. It's, it's lovely. And he's, I mean, he's the best. He really is. Yeah. He's,

I feel similar to him that you do. I might as well tell you now. You guys get along so well. It's cool to go in the other room and to get ready and hear you guys cracking up. I dig it. Well, also, he just knows his shit too. He has so much experience in performing. He has experience in merch sales. He has experience in everything. He does. He's smart. Vince April, he's the, um, he's got a podcast called We Watch Wrestling. Yeah. Get into it if you watch wrestling or want to. Um, yay. Yay. That's a good one. Other people. Yay. Making us happy. Yeah, we like people. And, and thank you to everyone who came to those Portland shows. We had such a great time. We got so many good presents. Thank you for coming to say hi after.

Can we say that someone made a catnip toys of fucking a bunch of serial killers? Yes. And they're incredible. And we put them on our Instagram, but I'm not giving them to the cats because they're just so fucking cool. Yeah. Those are keepers. Can't get, yeah. They're incredible. I think that it's not the same person, but I also got a couple of dog toys that were, they were slip, little mini slippers, a neon green mini slipper and a hot pink, and George and Frank have already destroyed both of them. They were very excited to get them. Oh, I love it. I am. Oh, you guys are the greatest. Yes. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for listening and everything and you're the best. And stay sexy and don't get murdered. Bye.