My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 67 - Live At The Egyptian Room

Episode Date: May 4, 2017

Live from Indianapolis' The Egyptian Room, it's an all new My Favorite Murder! This week, Karen and Georgia cover serial killers Belle Gunness and Herb Baumeister.Follow along with the visuals from this week's episode here by scrolling through the images as seen originally on stage @ https://instagram.com/p/BTrZwhol1uC/See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is exactly right. We at Wondery live, breathe, and downright obsess over true crime. And now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C, on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music. Exhibit C, it's truly criminal. I'm not saying this is a lie. You came like she said you would.

You said you would, and you did. You told us you were coming. Hi. Wow. This is so Indianapolis. You guys are right up on this stage, aren't you? Oh, shit. Awesome. It's a little bit threatening, isn't it? We're kind of here because I have a big mouth and that's shit.

Georgia has some stuff to say to you guys. I didn't. I think I was like being complimentary when I said what I said. But fuck man, we made up for it, I think. Being here, I mean. I mean, here's the thing. We, for us, we're having a private conversation. We're just very slowly catching on to the fact that you guys listen to it after we record it.

Yeah. And not just like we're trying to make Steven laugh. Yeah. We're trying to make each other laugh, but then. Oh, shit. And then we're trying to offend the country. Uh-huh. Definitely.

It's very easy to do. It turns out. Who knew? All you have to do is mispronounce some cities and tell some people they're dicks and then oh, oh, oh. Suddenly you're there. There you are. Hi.

Hello. You're there to make up for it with entertainment. Look at this gorgeous room where this is fucking nuts, you guys. Yeah. Thank you so much. When we were in Portland, we were in an old, like, high school and it totally felt like we were, like, the principals giving everyone a lecture about bullying. Yeah.

It was cool. This feels like we're the ushers at a very fancy movie theater. Yes. Where people are very excited to look at the screen. I could kick someone in the forehead right now. I'm sorry that that's the first thing I really want to do. Oh. Just a quick.

That'd be funny, though. It would kind of be funny. Um, we, this place, we went, I went in the bathroom and the moment I walked in, I said to myself, I said out loud to myself, oh, this is haunted. Like the bathroom was like, it was like a Japanese horror movie bathroom. Yes. It's like this is fucking haunted. Was it because there was that little girl with the wet hair in the corner?

Yeah. That was it. Oh. Do you need a paper towel? And then she was like, I'm Elisa Lam. I lost my mind. Could you imagine if Elisa Lam was actually just here in Indianapolis chilling? This whole time.

We're like, Elisa, there's a lot of people have been wondering about you. Oh. It's not funny at all. No. It's a bummer. Hey, let's talk about presents because that's a positive. Oh, you guys. Okay.

Here's the thing. And this is what's beautiful about having fans like you guys is you'll, you'll tweet us or social media somehow and say, if we have a present, how do we get it to you? And we don't answer you because we can't tell you secrets like that. But it doesn't matter because you get them to us anyway. Figure it out. Figure it out. It's very hard day's night, people getting onto some kind of thing and putting a towel

over it and sneaking back. I don't, I'm not sure how you get it. And you think like, we're adults and we can buy our own shit. But when we see a fucking present, we both lose our lives. What is it? What is it? And then we pull out the car and we start crying and then we sing and then we put the earrings in.

Okay. We're wearing your earrings silver in the city. Silver in the city. Silver in the city. Oh. Thank you. I hate earrings and I put these in because they're so adorable and cats and I love them. Seems like a lot of people work at silver in the city.

It's not like your Walmart out here. So many earrings. So many earrings. Take them off. And then we got, and then. Gorgeous. Thank you. Look at this cat mug.

These are from, but I don't remember. I know. Then it's this part. This is lame. The Weatherholt cousins gave me this fucking sign. The Weatherholt girls came together assuming, I'm assuming they're girls. They used to hate each other and then they bonded over murder and they got me a Siamese mug.

That's my new, that's totally my new stage mug until I leave it at home like next trip. I love it. For sure. And then they gave you, oh shit. They gave me, so this is pretty funny. So Georgia opens that. Well, I was kind of opening everything. Let's be honest.

I'm a bit domineering. And so I was pulling shit out and then just I would decide if it was for her or not. Or like, yeah, undeniably, this is Georgia's cat travel mug. And then the next thing came up and we'd read the card that said, enjoy coffee and music. And music. And so I opened this little box and it's a key chain holder, like a key holder. Like a leather key chain. Thanks a lot.

But then we're like thinking, me and Georgia Vance are kind of standing there and we're just like, there's got to be more to it. And there fucking was. Because you unsnap was like a little triangle shaped leather thing. You unsnap it. And inside was a beautiful silver guitar pick that had SSD GM engraved on it. I started crying. It's true.

We had to redo our makeup. We had to bring the whole team from Mac back in. That makes me think because I want to mention like how many messages and emails we get whenever we're touring of like really sweet girls being like, I'm a makeup artist. I'm a hairdresser and I'd love to do your makeup and hair for that. You know, and it's like such a sweet offer and I fucking love getting my hair and makeup done. We want it so bad.

But you don't understand until like 5.59. Is that a time? Yes. We're getting, we're freaking the fuck out and getting ready and finishing our murders. Typing. There's a lot of typing at 5.59. This is it. Whenever we get asked like, how much, so how much research goes into, you know, how much

time do you spend on each one? And it's like, no, we're not like that. We didn't finish college. We're terrible at homework. We care and we love research. We do. We love it and we care about it. We do.

And also we save it till the very end. We save it. We have, we push it right into our blowout time and right into our, we could have had such gorgeous eyeshadows. Blowing locks. I mean, we would have been to, we would have been Kendall and the other one Kardashian. But no, we're fucking trying to do our book report the night before every single time it's like that.

So thank you for the offers. Yeah, we, we, I mean, look, we're living high on the hog. Professionals. Offers. And we're just scraping through like feral children. I would like to point this out. So as you know, we talk about our fancy outfits that we like to get for the tour. We like to really dress it up for you as much as possible.

This dress I got last night, again, last minute, and I saw it and I was like, magic, it's all coming together for me. It's one of those dresses that has a built in slip, which then turns into a puzzle when you're putting it on. Ladies back me up. This is, I can't believe I made it into this dress is what I'm saying. There was like seven different ways you could do it. And it's also sewn on because at one point I was going to rip the fucking thing out.

I was just like, get rid of the slip there and I don't give a shit. Do you ever do the thing when you try to put a dress, I like fucking, like I hate the extra step of putting a dress on basically under a dress. So I'll do like a slip. So we'll do the thing where like they're together and I'll try to put them on at once and it takes four times as long to get it on because you're just like, no, I'm going to do this. Beat the system.

A lot of that. Also, you guys have seemed to have a lot of static electricity here. Is that one of the things, is that one of your outputs, whatever you call it? Is that how you make money around here is fucking up my hair real good? Oh my God. Does the city run on it? It's, my dress is permanently stuck. It's like my dress is scared and is grabbing my leg.

Usually I like a little more flow around this area. Looks like I just came out of a pond. Japanese horror movie. I meant to put heels on before we came out. Forgot. Anyway. Are those your show slippers? Yeah.

They're very cute. Yeah, they are. Now I'm just so, because one time you were like, those shoes you want to have on look like those socks you put on under shoes on stage. She said that. And now I'm like terrified that that's what these always look like. But there's some shit going on with them. I think I meant it as a compliment.

Oh, who knows the way when things come out here. Yeah. I mean, who am I to say anything? I'm wearing high heeled clogs right now. I'm wearing, I'm wearing boot clogs with what now turn out now that the lights are on me to be a navy. What? It did not look like that in the store.

I'm trying to be fancy. They look cool. They won't let me be fancy. It looks like you're doing it on purpose. I have heels that are like that high. And every single time when I go to leave my hotel room, I'm like getting ready, of course, rushed, little typing over here, blow drying over here, run, run, run. And then I look and there's like shoe choices and I'm like, fuck you, I'm putting you on

instead. I do it every time. No, I'm sure this was a subconscious thing that I did when I was like, no vintage heels, vintage black heels. You can go fuck themselves. These are gross. Oh, Indianapolis, you guys just charmed the shit out of me today. When near my hotel, there's a soup store.

Can I tell you this? What, a soup store? Yeah. And you know, I love stupid, not stupid, but puns in general. Sure. It's called supremacy. What? I cannot stop laughing about that.

I made Vince write it down backstage and I just looked at it and just started cracking up. Supremacy seems like it could be slightly problematic in this day and age. Yeah. I mean, it went through my head. Indian supremacy. Stop it. Stop it.

Well, when I was a kid, my first record store, I didn't realize till I was grown up and I went, oh, that's not good. Was called vinyl solution. Oh. No. I did it. My 14-year-old brain wasn't like, they don't want you here, Georgia. The little Jewish girls walking in.

I like punk rock. Yeah. They're like, we don't like you. No. That's pretty fucking clever. How could you not like me? I have little pigtails. I'm baby Georgia.

Wow. You're. Yeah. I flew Southwest, so I'm a little bit bummed out. I'm going to say it. Why not just say it to you? Anybody's going to understand it's you guys. It was just me and all these, as Vince said, just a lot of Steve Bannon looking motherfuckers.

You know what I mean? You get on Southwest, you're like, it's not like that on Alaska for some reason. You get on Southwest and you're just like, hmm. Man, leather attaché cases abound. And like, they're fucking purses, dude. You're not fucking fooling anyone. That's just a big square purse. Should we sit down?

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A pair of unlikely heroes emerges. Follow against the odds wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. This is the part where it gets really official. Yeah. This is a nice chair. It's like a conference chair. This is a high class.

You should see some of the chairs that we sit in on these shows. I swear to God, it's like a guy came up real quick right before the show. It was just like, this is like Tony Robbins ordered these a couple years ago and left them behind. Thank you. Oh my God, am I sitting on Tony Robbins? But that is so amazing. There's someone else that loves to say fuck. Does he?

He really does. Yeah, he screams in people's faces. Yeah, he's all about it. He thinks it's very freeing. Travel mug. Travel. What does it taste like? Water.

I've had too much caffeine at this point in my life right now. Sugar free Red Bull, everyone. That's my secret. That's my secret. Okay. Okay, but supremacy. Kills me. Kills me.

You give your order and then they make the receipt into a circle and you slip it on like an arm band. You just keep going back to that. You know what? If this was on standard live, it would be fine. But right now it just feels very risky. Can I tell you about my pizza place in my neighborhood when I was a kid? Maybe this started it all? It's called Sergeant Pepperonis.

Jesus Christ. I just appreciate it. You've loved it since you were a child. Well, everything in my town was just like grocery store. Our grocery store is called Food City. You didn't have to have an imagination of any kind. You're just like, yep, it's a bunch of food in there. We're going to get some for ourselves.

We'll come back later and get more. I love that. Food City. Can we tell them about my murder in a snafu? It's Stephen's fault. It's Stephen's fault. Shout out to Stephen. I could make this about.

It's totally his fault. So we, because we, as you know, we don't tell each other the stories, the crimes that we're going to talk about right now. We don't tell them beforehand. It's not faked, you guys. It's genuinely a surprise. We're not acting. Real surprise.

So last night, I didn't check in or even think about telling Stephen. So Stephen's the middleman. We both tell Stephen who we're doing. And then if there is any overlap, he lets the second person know, basically. Which there hasn't been thus far. Never has been. Never. Like, am I cool doing so and so?

And he's like, you're good. Always. Yeah. Well, last night, I think I checked in with Stephen around 1.30 a.m. Because I was like, well, here's the thing. Here's my person. And also, can you find me pictures? And I was less checking and more bossing, of course.

And he was like, ooh, we've got some overlap. And I was like, what? So it already worked on one. It already worked on it. And this is why I don't work on things. The seventh grader in me says, this is why I don't try. So now you know my guy then. I know your guy.

He's the best one. And then I had to put my own together real fast. And this is a true story. When I got to my hotel room finally, I sat down, I was like, OK, I had on the plane with my two businessmen on either side of me. We're all doing our business. Me typing about murder, them stocks, bonds, what's not. Boring.

I assume. I was just so much better. They could have both been poets. Who knows? I mean, so are we, kind of. That's very true. So what I did was like, just like, because you can never, you never believe that you can actually get the internet on a plane.

That's such a fucking lie. It's true. Southwest is like Wi-Fi here and Wi-Fi there. And I was like, yeah, I doubt it. And so I just cut and pasted like 30 pages from Murderpedia about my person. And then I put it in a document. So on the plane, I was just bolding the areas that I wanted to talk about. And what a gorgeous document it was, everybody.

What an amazing amount of work I can do. When I apply myself. Well. I mean, when you work on your murder, it's, mine is like a fucking mess of like different sizes of font and different fonts and like blacked out and then read it out. Yes. It's just such a mess. It always like, Verdana always comes up as a choice.

It's like, who's typing in Verdana font? Do you hate your eyes? It's awful looking. Anyway, go at times. It's a classic. I use Georgia. I always do. Every fucking, it's so.

Is that true? I never admitted that. That's for you, Indianapolis. Yes. Inside secrets. I mean, if it's cute, it's fine. It's just like a little just go, you know, dude, I would fucking if there was a Karen and it looked like weird twigs, I'd be my whole document.

I wouldn't be like, it's gorgeous. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, someday that's the dream to get a font. So anyhow, I sit down to do my thing where I'm going to take my bold things that I worked on hard on the plane and put them on my brand new document. I titled them both the same thing.

So when it came up and said there's already a document that's this, do you want to replace? Oh, I said yes. And so instead of having pages and pages of bolded information, I had two paragraphs that were like, anyway, everybody was like, what the fuck? And it was 5.15. PM hadn't showered yet. Emergency situation. And here we are.

And here we go. So we're going to take an hour break and we'll be right back. Anybody who wants to email us some ideas. No. Hold tight. Not true. Who's first? It might be me.

You're right. Yes. I think it is. Yesterday. No, today. Tuesday. It came out today. It's today.

It came out today. We recorded on Tuesday. And I don't remember any of it. We're already getting like a couple of, like put quotes in and I'm like, I don't remember talking about pinching penises. Like, what the fuck? It's all a blur. I probably said that because that sounds like something I would say.

Oh, except for, yeah, okay, fine. Cherry Hills in New Jersey. I don't know if you guys caught that part, but I did. My murder took place in Cherry Hill, New Jersey and the entire time I said it was Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania. I must have said it. I, I'm from California. We don't have states that close.

So if you're talking, you're talking about going to Philadelphia. It's like, well, you must be in Pennsylvania. There's, there's no other way. I know. I'm already lost. Of what I'm saying right now. So your whole murder was in the wrong state. Oh, I didn't realize that.

I thought you just like mentioned this other city once. No. Fuck. No, I was like, the Cherry Hill mall in Pennsylvania. I was like, I was acting like that guy that does the Mark Twain show where I was just like, listen up, get around everybody and let me tell you about Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania. Well, how many people are in the state of New Jersey and how many people listen to our podcast?

Cause we just lost all of those listeners. Well, did we lose them or now do they have something to fight about? Right. Which is their favorite fucking thing in the world to do. It's New Jersey. He's like, I'm sorry, but. I thought you meant people who listened to the podcast or favorite thing to do is fight. You meant people in New Jersey.

I get it. New Jersey. Yeah. Subset, subset. Okay. Yeah. They're probably going to just listen to hear more mistakes and correct them probably because we make a couple of mistakes.

Listen. And you know what happens and cut to we're in New Jersey. Right. I mean, you guys know, if anybody knows it's Indianapolis. True. We walk up, then we show up. Yeah. Hey.

Yeah. That's true. All right. Should we do this? Let's. Oh, this is my favorite murder. That's Karen. Hi.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We needed to get a big third cheer going before the reading starts. Pump you guys up. You know.

Well, I went, if I couldn't do Georgia's, then I had to go to number two who I didn't, the only reason I didn't pick her is because she's an oldie and she's like a vintage one. You like old timings. I do love an oldie, but I'd done a couple recently. So I thought I was going to update and try to be more current. Nope. I got slapped back down by fate. And here I am.

I swooped in hard on that guy. You had to. This guy is the worst thing I've ever read about my fucking life. He's pretty fucking awful. But so is our girl, Belle Gunness. Right, everybody? You know her, right? Uh-huh.

Horrible. God, she loved to kill people and burn things down. Is that a local thing or was that just her taste? Because she, she really loved to burn. I mean, she was what they call a fire bug. All right. Some of her nicknames were Lady Bluebeard. Oh, that's got to be sad.

Like make you feel bad about yourself. Yeah, that's going to, that's going to get you to the tweezers and the magnifying mirror real quick. Why did they call me that? I shave every day. Um, the Laporte Black Widow. Uh, right Laporte. Um, the Mistress of Murder Farm. Oh, that's fun.

That actually seems like a British procedural that I would watch. Dude does. The Mistress of Murder Farm. Oh. Welcome. Axe. All right. Or, and Hell's Bell.

That's cool. That seems more like a, it's like a roller derby name. Totally is. Yeah. Also, there's a really great female ACDC cover band called Hell's Bell. Oh. Unbelievable. Kiki.

It's amazing. Yeah. All right. Hell's Sorensen Gunness was born November 11th, 1859. Um, uh, she was from Norway and she left there in 1881 at the age of 21 to move to Chicago like her sister did. So they emigrated to America. She became a servant and she worked as a servant for a couple of years. And then she married her first husband, Mads Sorensen, three years later in 1884.

Mads? Is it Mads? Does it? Uh, the Norwegians have the name MADS. Mads? Mads? It's MADS. That's right.

Okay. Um, Mads is kind of a hilarious name. All right. Anyway, the two of them married and they opened a candy store. And how, how fucked up do you have to be to have an unsuccessful candy store? Cause they did it. They sucked at candy. How do you do it?

How do you do it? They sold like, what's the gross flavor? Like those buttons on paper? It's just like buttons. They called their candy store buttons on paper. Just one giant roll of buttons on paper. Kids kept getting smashed by it every time they tried to get one. They're just cutting weird pieces out randomly.

I don't like this store. Um, all right. So they, since their candy store fails, um, it strangely burned down almost a year later after they opened it. It's a burning candy. Smell it. Um, so Bell and Mads collected their insurance on that business and they bought a new home. And then they had two biological children, uh, Myrtle in 1897 and Lucy in 1899.

Those are cute. When is Myrtle going to come back? It can't. It's that you will immediately be called a turtle. Grammar school. Please think these things through. You have to go through the rhyming of the children's names. Sorry, I didn't mean to attack you.

I'm having a fucking kid. I don't care. Uh, they also had a foster child named Jenny Olson. They also had two other biological children that did not survive infancy. And both of them were diagnosed to have had extreme colitis, which has the same symptoms as strict nine points. Um, but they're babies. And this is a family. And so the doctors are like, they have extreme colitis.

Everybody. Um, interestingly, I mean, um, both of those children's lives were insured. Um, as you do ensure your baby. I mean, a tiny baby in 18, in 18 fucking, whatever the shit. Yeah. That baby was going to be the most amazing, like stick and stick and hoop baby. Stick and hoop baby. Look at that arm.

Ensure that arm. I was going to call it stick and circle. Jesus. Jesus. Um, all right. So then on July 30th, 1900, uh, Mavs died. Um, he, uh, also had some colitis like problems. Uh, runs in the family.

Yeah. That weird poisoning runs in this family. Um, and interestingly, he died on July 30th, which was the only day his two life insurance policies overlapped. Oh, wow. It's asking for trouble. Lucky, lucky, lucky. So, uh, the Sorenson's family doctor had been treating him, um, Mavs for an enlarged heart. And so he, the first doctor was like, this is absolutely strict nine poisoning.

And then the family doctor was like, no, no, no, no, sit down, young lady. Um, he died of heart failure. And so she applies for insurance money the day after the funeral, as you do. And she gets a $8,500, which is a little over $200,000 in today's money. Not for another candy store, probably. No, no, no, no. She learned her candy lesson. Okay.

Um, so she uses the money to purchase a 42 acre farm in La Porte, uh, Indiana, at the end that scared the shit out of me. Ugh. We were about to come back. I mean, we were, we were about to leave and come back out the second apology tour. Damn. This is so much harder than it looks. Okay, uh, La Porte Indiana at the end of McClung Road.

Um, everybody talks about McClung Road. Oh my God, I love McClung Road. Um, so she moves in and then it's reported that soon after both the boat and carriage houses burned down. Okay, so maybe that's just what she did to get used to being living in a place. You know what I mean? It's like, doesn't feel like me yet. I don't know.

I want to warm it up somehow. I want to literally warm it up. Uh, oh, also I just wrote here very randomly. Reports say that she was six feet tall and 200 pounds. No way. No way. I think this is a, that's like a Paul Bunyan thing of like, I think she was so horrifying that people are like, and she's no, no, we'll see.

We don't. I turned into one of those things. Which was tall back then because everyone was like, no one got higher than five, four. Everyone was like, my bones, my rickets. She's like, I'm doing great. I'm from Norway and I'll kill you for no reason. All right. So, as she's getting ready to, she buys the farm in La Porte.

She's getting ready to move from Chicago to La Porte. She becomes reacquainted with a recent widower named Peter Gunness, who also was from Norway. So that kind of, you know, local Norway hookup. And so they get married in La Porte on April 1st, 1902. A week after the ceremony, Peter's infant daughter died of uncertain causes while alone in the house with Belle. Oh, yeah. Then in December of 1902, Peter himself met with a quote unquote tragic accident.

According to Belle, he was reaching for his slippers next to the kitchen stove. Already, there's too many nouns in this. When you're, when you have to lie and we always do, just kind of keep the nouns to amends. You don't need slippers in this story at all. He was just near the stove like he always is. Kitchen doesn't even, like it's a given that the stove is in the kitchen. That's right. Don't, don't specify what we already know.

Yeah. And take notes, you guys, for when you fucking kill her. That's right. This whole thing's going to turn on us so fucking hard. But it'll be fun until then. So many presents until. He's reaching for his slippers next to the kitchen stove when he's scalded with brine. Brine.

Again. She later declared that in fact part of a sausage grinding machine had fell from a high shelf and hit him on the head. Pesky sausage machines. Is this kitchen like Peewee Herman's like, what is happening, Belle? Then that anvil came from across the room. Okay. So a year later, Peter's brother, Gust. Is that right?

I should have read this over. Gust of wind. He came down. He takes Peter's older daughter, Swan Hilda. Wow. When's Swan Hilda coming back, everybody? Wow. Wow.

Yeah. When's that one coming back? After that, yelled across McDonald's play place. Swan Hilda. No. Don't lick that. It's always licking. Get away from the brine, Swan Hilda.

Swan Hilda's uncle, Peter's brother, comes, Gust, comes down, gets her and gets her out. He's like, we're sorry. He comes gusting in. That's right. Soup. Premisee. Sorry. Sorry.

Go on. No, no. Never apologize. Try not to. So she gets out. The uncle's like, something's going on. Oh, he's like, get the fuck out of here. Yeah.

Yeah. Get the one remaining living child of a once flourishing family. Good for him. Yeah. So the corner reviews his case, his death, and announces unequivocally, or unequivocally, I'm not sure, that he was murdered. And his stepdaughter Jenny, her stepdaughter Jenny, so I'm sorry, his daughter, is overheard at school saying, my mama killed my papa.

She's hit him with a meat cleaver and he died. On the swings. Chillin. Fuckin. Juice box. Kids. Don't lick that. So.

Stay in the candy store. So she's, she's brought before the corner's jury. So the corner does have an inquest because he's like, this is incredibly suspicious. And when they tried to talk to her about it, she denies ever having said anything. And then Belle convinces the corner that she's absolutely innocent and she didn't do anything. He believes her. Does he marry her? Uh, he does.

He does not marry her. But then I'm thinking if she really was, if she really was six feet tall, 200 pounds, she must have been an amazing like presence to be able to like be like, Oh no, no, I didn't kill him. Goodbye. Like, could you imagine this kind of like a giant test just being like murdering and then being like, but don't blame me goodbye has to duck through the door on the way out. But it's like, but everyone drops.

Okay. This is taking too long so Belle tells neighbors soon after she explains Jenny's gone off to finishing school. Never good. Finished. Yeah. That's right. That's right.

So Belle runs her farm from 1903 to 1906 and in 1907 she hires a farm hand named Ray Lampere. I think we do have a picture of Ray Lampere. He's got a mustache. Nope. She also had a mustache. You weren't wrong. But that was Belle. Nope.

That's a good one though. That's the farm. We need to keep going through. Yeah. But if there's like 90 pictures, it'd be like, and there's me this summer in the, there's Ray Lampere. He looks chill. He looks like, he looks like 70% of the bartenders in Los Angeles.

Oh, no, I don't want to come see your improv team. Thank you. Oh, just the look in his eyes. So dead. No, let me help you with your farm. Yeah. I need to help you. So that guy, and also could we just really quick, could we go back to the picture of

Belle herself just to see what everyone's, why everyone is so in love? There she is. That's her? Yeah. Oh, she's pretty. She's not. Am I wrong? What's that?

Is she pretty? She pretty. Is she is? She pretty. She pretty. She pretty. She pretty. Even I'm like, whoa, maybe she didn't do it.

You know what, you guys, I think she's innocent. I feel like, look at her. Look at, I mean, she does have a hat face and that's, I can't say the same thing. I mean, the ruffles, she really, you know, she's got a napkin bib in her fucking. And clearly just a huge long rack. Her rack is, instead of being like this, 50 style, straight down farm style. Yeah. We all know that, that means you're a hard worker.

Yeah. Marry her. Right? Yeah. You got to. There wasn't a lot of foundation garments back then. You just had to, you know, gravity took its toll. Anyhow.

So Ray Lampier shows up with the fire in his eyes and the insane mustache and he is immediately in love with her. So he'll do anything she asks. All right. So this is, that's what's happening, the feel around the farm. And at the same time, Bell Gunness puts an advertisement in the newspaper in all the Chicago daily papers and in, I guess, some of the Norwegian papers. And this is the, it's basically kind of like a personal ad.

And hers reads, personal, commonly widow who owns a large farm in one of the finest districts in the Port County, Indiana, desires to make the acquaintance of a gentleman equally well provided with view of joining fortunes. No replies by letter considered unless sender is willing to follow answer with personal visit, triflers need not apply. Hey. I don't want no scrubs. Yeah.

And a bachelor's side of that. It's best friend's farm. Trying to burn down a horse. Burn down a horse. She tried to burn that horse. Triflers need not apply is our next shirt. Oh my God. Shit.

Steven. Steven. Steven, get on that. Steven, do it now. I mean, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she's not wrong.

Yeah. Yes. She murders children. Yes. She murders children and adults. Yes. But. But also triflers need not apply.

No. They simply need it. They need it. Okay. Okay. So now there's a stream of like middle-aged, mostly Norwegian male suitors that are coming to the farm, bringing their, a lot of them are just clearing out their bank accounts, they're selling their houses, they're cashing it all in and bringing their money to this

woman that often times she would be exchanging letters with them and they were like kind of, you know, love-ish letters. Oh. My dearest mother. Yes. That's it. Exactly. I don't know how to write.

I'm not a poet. So Ray Lamphere is getting really jealous because these, these men are showing up and they're not leaving in the bad way. So she fires him on February 3rd, 1908. And shortly after, she presents herself at the La Porte courthouse and declares that Ray Lamphere was not in his right mind and was a menace to the public. And she actually ends up convincing local authorities to hold a sanity hearing against him.

He's pronounced sane and released, Hugh. Gunness is back a few days later to complain to the sheriff that Lamphere had visited her farm and argued with her and that she contended he posed a threat to her family. He posed a threat to her family. She's killed everyone in her family, everybody. And she has Lamphere arrested for trespassing. Then she tells a lawyer in La Porte that she fears for her life and the lives of her children. She said that Ray Lamphere threatened to kill her and burn her house down.

Three fingers pointing back at her. Classic. So she makes out a will in case he goes through with it. And then she leaves her entire estate to her children and leaves. And then she pays off her mortgage and she doesn't go to the police to tell them about Lamphere's behavior. She's just telling this lawyer. And then the new, she hires a guy named Joe Maxon to replace Lamphere in February.

And in the early hours of April 28, 1908, he wakes to the smell of smoke in his room. And he's on the second floor of the house and he opens the door, his bedroom door to a sheet of flames. He's screaming Bell's name, the children's names. He doesn't hear anything. So he runs out the door in his underwear. He leaps from a second story window. He barely survives the fire.

He races to town to get help. But by the time they come, the hook and ladder, old fashioned fire truck comes back. The whole farmhouse is gutted in a heap of smoking ruins. And that's that picture of all the people standing around. That's what's left. And in there, they find the bodies. No. Yeah.

There's three child, children's bodies. The children are all in their beds. And then one of a grown woman, but she doesn't have a head. So they're like, oh, this is terrible. The house burned down and the gunners all died inside of it. Well, the doctors measure the remains and making allowances for the missing neck and head. Who wrote that?

Obviously, they're not going to measure an invisible neck and head. So they say that the corpse is a woman who stood five foot three and weighed no more than 150 pounds. Their neighbors said that Bell was probably five nine, but she did weigh like, you know, 180, 200 pounds, whatever. So they had, they actually had a dressmaker that was in Chicago that they contacted who had her exact measurements, brought them back, and this body was not done in the fire. Police work.

Yeah. Yeah. Shit. Yeah. I mean, in turn of the century police work, let's get positive. But they do find Bell's dentures in the ashes. And so because of that, the police can't, they're like, well, this then is her. Like they did everything else.

It's like, nah, you know, I mean, we heard she was five eight, but yeah, it's the teeth that really prove it. The teeth that didn't stay in her mouth most of the time. The teeth that mostly were in a glass removed from your face. They were they were in a glass at the top of where her neck was appropriate. All right. Now one of her earliest victims. So I will read you this list of people who did show up at this farm thinking that they

were in love with a woman and they're going to live the rest of their life on a beautiful farm with her and who never left. One of them had a brother who when his brother never came back and he never heard from him again. He showed up at the farm and Bell was like, oh, he never came here. And he the whole time was like, this woman's dirty. I don't like it. There's something.

So he went after this fire, he went to the sheriff and was like, you have got to investigate this woman's insane. So Sheriff Smutzer was the man's name. Yeah, the Smutzers. He takes a dozen men back to the farm. They begin to dig. And on May 3rd, 1908, they unearthed the body of Jenny Olson, this stepdaughter. They also found small bodies of two unidentified children and subsequently the body of Andrew

Helgellian, who his brother was the one, Ezel, probably not, was the one who was making, they find his body. And then as they begin digging, they just keep finding bodies. And so these are the bodies they found, Ole B Bunsberg of Iowa, Wisconsin. Oh. Did you hate him? Did I pronounce it wrong? I'm like, good luck with this.

It's going to get worse. I mean, there's just a fucking shitload of Scandinavian names. I'm not going to be able to pronounce. Thomas Lindbeau, Henry Girlholt, they find his watch in the ground, Olaf's Fennel Hood. They're all dead. Sorry. This is also like a Betty White's character on Golden Girls, where I'm just like, oh, you mean when Olaf's Ferdinand Hood went down to the farm and never came back, John Moe,

he was there too. Olaf Lindblum, I mean, it's insane. It goes on and on. And she ended up, they think that she killed over 40 people, men, women, and children. And this is kind of my favorite part of it. And there's lots of people, they're unnamed or somebody came by, it's bad. And they actually didn't dig the whole farm at the time. They found kind of the bodies that they knew proved that she really was a killer, but they

didn't actually excavate the entire farm. So they know of 40, but they think there could be tons more, because she had many, many hundreds of acres to bury bodies. Can we go there? Should we go there now? Oh my God, I'm dying too. Does anybody have a shovel? That'd be so much fun.

But she's gone. She's disappeared. So nobody ever, there's lots of sightings of her and there's people who are, like there's detectives who think they see her in Mexico City and New York City and all over the place. But no one ever actually finds her. Really? Uh-huh. And then, but in 1931, a woman whose name was Esther Carlson was arrested in Los Angeles

for poisoning August Lindstrom for money and two people who had known Belle Guinness claimed to recognize her from the photographs, but the identification was never proved and Esther Carlson died in jail while awaiting trial. And that is the story of Belle Guinness, everybody. Man, that's good. Never found her. They never found her, she got away with it. She got away with it.

She probably didn't more. Right? Yeah. Well, you mean in between? Yes. Oh yeah. Now she's good at it. Totally.

Or what if she didn't? What if she stopped murdering? She's like, I'm going to get this candy thing right. And then she became Mrs. Paribot. Thank you. Come on. Needed that.

Right? I was going to say Butter's Worth, but that's not candy. That's pancakes. I know. That's breakfast candy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. You fucking sickos. You ready for this one? Because this one's fucked up. I bet you guys know what it is already. Herb Balmeister. Gotta be. Screw that.

Herb Balmeister. There we go. Herb Balmeister. Fucking herb. Born. Can I say something really quick? There is a picture. When you Google Herb Balmeister and you Google images, it's hilarious.

But there's one picture and it's the cover of a book someone wrote. It's that mask, that skin mask thing. What is that thing? I don't know. It comes up and it's terrifying. It comes up and I click off of it really fast, but then sometimes I wait like three seconds and I click off it really fast. I don't have it.

It's such a bummer. That's on you guys. That's your time. Stephen, leave it up the whole time. It looks like anything you've seen in Ed Game School except for that it's melting on purpose to fuck with you. It's so upsetting. I don't think that's, it could be.

I don't think that's his. You don't think he made it? I don't know. I don't know if he did that. Was it just a piece of art? Probably. Unrelated. You know how like...

Okay. How stuff gets in there and all of a sudden you're like, Hulk Hogan, come on, I'm trying to look up a murder. One of the first photos that comes up when you Google my name, not that I do it every night or even, is a Miley Cyrus photo and I don't know why. You lucky. I know. It's not a good one.

Her tongue is in. Yeah. Okay. April 7th, 1947, her ballmeister is born in suburban Westfield near Indianapolis. His childhood is normal, but his adolescence, he begins exhibiting anti-social behavior. The acquaintances later recall him playing with dead animals and urinating on a teacher's desk. Oh.

Like, was he standing on it, being down, or was he just like up in the air, it was like a waterfall. From his desk? Yeah. Yeah. Because then that's not anti-social, it's like the coolest guy in class. Yeah. That's like very social.

Yeah. I have so many questions about that. Yeah. A friend says he would say strange things like, wonders what it would be like to taste human urine. Not interested. And he had a fascination with dead animals. As a teenager, he's diagnosed with schizophrenia, but he doesn't receive further psychiatric

treatment, which seems so hard to believe because, anyway, he's just, he was successful in a lot of ways. Right. I don't know if that's okay. Like he could afford doctors and stuff, you mean? No, that he was schizophrenic at all. Oh, oh, he went on to like have normal jobs and stuff, got it. Yeah.

Like unmedicated. Okay. As an adult, he started to... A successful murderer. Yeah. It seems like a hard thing to be. Yeah. As an adult, he starts to exhibit increasingly bizarre behavior, but of course, someone still

marries him. Always. I have a photo. I think there's a photo of the two of them together. The Bellmeister family? Nope. No. Let's look at him for their...

There they are. All right. Okay. You did not put these in order. Stephen, you didn't put these in the order. I didn't tell you to put them in. Never told you about. That one works.

I think there's one more behind it. Yeah. There we go. Ew. She's like... That's right. He put a ring on that crazy motherfucker. He's like, I'm going to kill a lot of people.

Sure, I'll buy you a ring. Little does she know. He marries Julie Seder in 1971, and they have three fucking children, although Julie later admits that she and Herb had sex only six times in the 25 years they were married. So you can go back to the one of the family. There we go. Yeah. Look at those kids who are like, oh fuck.

So it's just six times. So it was two for the kids. Three for the kids. Three for... Yeah. Sorry. Each time took two tries. And that was it.

That's it. That's all you get, Julie. There's a piece of tape down the middle of the bed. You stay on your side. Yes. But actually, she said she never saw him nude, that he would get dressed in the bathroom, put pajamas on the bathroom before coming to bed. He was ashamed of his skinny body, but also a fucking psychopath.

So... Yeah. It's not just... Like a lot of people are skinny. Yeah. A lot of people are, you know, if it's kind of the dream for some, a lot of people are like, flaunting that shit, making money at it. He has a bunch of weird jobs, but his behavior is always weird and creepy, including urinating

on his boss's desk. Wait. He was like, it's me, the urinating on the desk guy. Kind of his thing. Again, standing on the floor and pissing up or standing on the desk. Because it's kind of like funny if he was standing on the desk, you know, but he's on the ground. It's like...

Or, was the desk in the bathroom and it's not his fault. Fair. Let's be fair. Good question. Fairness. What if in the bathroom after this, there's just a... I walked into P and there's just a desk in the bathroom. It's haunted.

Someone's like, Georgia, I'm glad you came in to see me today. This is your yearly review. I never saw him nude, he was skinny, weird job, peed on the desk, then he founds a thrift store chain in Indianapolis in 1988 called Save-A-Lot. The Save-A-Lot sucks. Did you guys know that you used to buy your fucking vintage shit at the fucking murderers shop? It was all covered in pee.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I don't normally do pee and poo jokes. What if your childhood bunk bed was from Save-A-Lot? Oh, bad memories all of a sudden. Your mom. You keep getting blamed. You're like, I swear to God, I don't wet the bed. I know I'm seven.

Can you please listen to me? Then why did this man like paint? It became super fucking successful and they opened a second location and they got super fucking rich. They buy a huge tutor house in upscale Westfield district called, it's called Fox Hollow Farms. They have a fucking... You live in a place with a name. Oh, we got rich people here.

Yeah. You guys mug them after the show. Beers on. Raise your hand. Can't say that. You didn't say that? I said that. Don't do it.

Please don't mug people as a joke. Fox Hollow Farms, 18 and a half acres in an indoor pool, which just depresses me so much. It smells so much like chlorine in that pool. It just makes me think of your divorced dad who's spending all his money before your mom can get it. It's just like... So he has an indoor pool.

It's just like... Kids, it's snowing. Get in there. You're like, but I can't... But I don't want to do laps. Okay. Then in the 90s, 1990s, gay men in the Indianapolis area start to disappear. Authorities of course blamed it on their lifestyle and they were like, they ran away to the

big city. You know what I'm like? So we were... We wouldn't make fun of them. So that's where they went and all the men were of similar age, height and weight. But Virgil van de Gryff, who's like a fuck and the hero of the story, needs to be played by Harrison Ford or some shit. He is kind of a van de Gryffy type.

Van de Gryff. Virgil. Virgil. Virgil. Look at my earring. He has an earring. I hate that earring. They just call him Gryff.

Or Fee. Anyways, he's a retired, successful, private investigator, which is fucking awesome. And he's approached by the mother of 28-year-old Alan Broussard to ask for help finding her missing son. And Virgil starts to put the pieces together. Alan was part of the local gay scene and was last seen leaving a bar called Brothers. Well, after party there. Where...

It seems like Brothers, something's going on at Brothers. I don't know. I kind of don't want to know. It would take too long for an audience to tell us a story. But... Let's have our bachelorette party at Brothers, right? That's for you. Or it burned down and people are upset.

We won't know. Okay. Well, investigating Alan's disappearance, Van de Gryff stumbles upon the case of Jeff Jones, who disappeared in mid-93 a year earlier vanishing from the streets of Indianapolis. The last disappearance which caused Van de Gryff to link all the cases and convince him that Indianapolis has a serial killer was when he was confronted by a man named Tony Harris. I think that's not his real name, though, because he was like, I don't want to be a

part of this. He tells Van de Gryff that his friend, Roger Alan Goodlett, 34, had left a gay bar called Our Place with a man calling himself Brian Smart, and he hadn't been seen since. So Tony is convinced that Brian Smart had killed his friend, but when police brush him off, he takes matters into his own hands. Oh, hell yeah. Chuck Norris style. Fuck yeah.

Played by Chuck Norris. We've done it. We're casting this thing. We're doing several jobs at once. Stephen, write those names down. When Tony next sees Brian Smart at a gay bar, he tricks Smart into taking him home with him. Shit.

Yeah. Oh, he's going undercover like? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's not a good idea, though. I know. But it's pretty badass. It's insanely badass.

Yeah. Only because you survived, and otherwise it wouldn't be. Yeah. It would be an intense tragedy. Yeah. Okay. We all understand. We got that.

Smart invites Tony back to his house for a cocktail and a swim. When they get to Brian Smart's house, a large Truderman mansion, they go for a swim in the indoor pool. And eventually things get weird, or when Smart says, you know what I mean? Yeah. Weird. Weird. I just learned, so Brian Smart says, I just learned this really great trick.

If you choke someone while you're having sex, it feels really great. That's not a trick. You're like, we were, sorry, we were just talking about baseball. What the fuck? What are you doing? Yeah. I thought you were going to show me some magic, but this is not a magic trick. This is creepy.

And he says, if you choke someone, you really get a great rush. She says, okay, if that's fun, Brian shows Tony how to pinch the carotid arteries and says, it's such a great buzz. You should see how someone looks when you're doing it to them. Their lips change colors, and that's how you can tell it's working. And you're like, cool, let's make out. Like who the fuck would... I just want to know you more now.

Yeah. Yeah. So Tony allows Smart to demonstrate on him. Tony had a death wish. Tony... Wait, Tony, but Tony's not the private investigator, right? No, Tony's the dude who's friends with a friend. Tony's the gay bar with a dude.

He's just like, I'm going to do this myself. Yeah. That's awful. It's a lot of bad ideas, a lot of bad ideas. Yeah. Maybe he thought he could find... Okay, go ahead. Sorry, I keep you in order.

No, it's good. That's the point of this whole podcast. Oh, right. That's right. So he allows him to do it, but he pretends to be unconscious before he could pass out, which I always thought was a fake thing. Eventually Tony commits to Smart to take him back into town. It happens.

He wakes back up. He's like, I'm good. And they're like... He's like, can you take me back to town? And he does. And he's like, fine. Yeah. Because he didn't pass out sexy enough or something.

Also, what I hate is I'm picturing all of it happening in an indoor pool, so it's all echoey. Smelly. Yeah. It's like, smells like chemicals. And it's like, now you pass out. Can you just... I got to go.

It's like a gross moldy chaise lounge. One of those signs that says, we don't swim in your toilet. Please don't pee in our pool. Or active diarrhea. If you have it, please don't come in our pool. I just heard that. Who's another? Active diarrhea.

If you have had active diarrhea in the past 24 hours, this is... We don't do shit jokes. Yeah. But it's not who we are. I know. There's also the one that's like, welcome to our pool. You might notice there's no pee in it. Let's keep it that way.

Funny. Signs from the 70s. Love it. Da, da, da, da, da. And then... Oh, and then... So he commences to have him to take him back to town. Tony brought this information to Vandagriff, who I'm sure Tony left some shit out probably,

right? Yeah. That's like even worse than that. And he also told Vandagriff about how there were mannequins in the basement where Smart had his like bar hang area. What did they call them? Like a bachelor? Like a barter area?

Yeah. Mannequins all dressed up in various poses, like hanging out. I'm going to start crying. I don't like this at all. Well, when Tony's like, what the fuck, Smart? He's like, I get lonely down here. They give me company. They give me company.

They give me company. Do you know what I bet? I think he would bring home clothes from his thrift store. I bet he'd bring them back and someone in the audience is wearing them one way or the other. Can we bring the house lights up? Do you know how loud I would start screaming if we turned a corner or like, here's the mannequin room.

I would just be like... I mean... Oh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Especially if you look like that fucking dude. Can we get the closer picture of her? Because that one's a real...

One more back. By himself. Because he's got the eyes. He's got the eyes of a person that loves mannequins. They'll find out. There he is. I love mannequins. Don't you love mannequins?

They're just like people, but they don't talk. Oh. Herb, okay. So he brings us all the info to the police. Virgil van de Gryff brings us info to the police. But the only person who would take him seriously was a detective named Mary Wilson, who's played by her. Who's playing her?

Marcia Gay Harden probably is my first guess. Great. She's going to be a person that's going to be a good pantsuit. She's going to put her hand back like this and show her gun, but she might not... Oh. She's not going to brandish her gun. She's just going to be like, I've got a gun. That's Marcia Gay Harden for you, ladies and gentlemen.

That's perfect. So Mary, as it turns out, was investigating disappearances of other Indianapolis men as well. Those of 20-year-old Richard Hamilton, 21-year-old Johnny Bayer, and 28-year-old Alan Livingston, and others dating back to the early 90s all gay men. Well, Tony couldn't remember where Smart's house was located. Oh, Tony. I know.

It's key information. I know. He's like, I think it had the name Fox in it. He really couldn't remember, and they even were like, what about this house that has an indoor pool? And he's like, I don't think it is. It was. Tony.

Okay. Tony was high as fuck. A little coke, a little fucking. He's like, look, I had to blend in. It's just I had to do what was everybody else was doing. It's the early 90s. There's a lot of coke, probably. I don't really remember an indoor pool or mannequins.

Let's see. He couldn't remember, but he is obsessively frequenting gay bars for the next year in hopes of spotting Smart again. He's like, I'm going to fix the fact that I can't remember this shit. But he couldn't track him down a whole year almost. Then on the night of August 29th, 1995, Tony spots Smart, and a gay bar takes down his motherfucking license plate number. Nice.

When Mary Wilson runs the plates, they belong to not anyone named Brian Smart, but to Herbert our bowmeister of Westfield, Indiana. Did you guys catch onto that? Probably right? I did. I did. I definitely did. He lived in a state called with his wife and children.

The manor house, Mary learned how to swimming pool in the basement. Mary confronted Herb at his first store. He's like, I think you're a fucking murderer of gay men. His thrift store is failing right now because of his increasingly erratic behavior with mannequins. You're like, Herb, we don't need that many mannequins in here. You can't even walk through the aisles. Yeah, it's nuts.

You don't need shopping mannequins. We have shoppers for that. How creepy would that be if you turn a corner with your shopping cart and it's just like, mannequin with a shopping cart. I wanted this Coors t-shirt. It's mine. Oh, no. No.

But he refuses to talk. They said they wanted to search his home and he's like, talk to my lawyer. Don't talk to me again. But then they go to his wife, Julie, who also has reign over the property and is like, hey, guess what? Your husband, we think he's killing gay men around town. Can we search your property? And she's like, I can't deal with this right now.

Get the fuck out of here. Nope. I've worked it real hard. Well, that makes a lot of sense. You gotta. Right? Oh, that's awful. Yeah.

She's like, oh fuck. Then. I'm gonna go for a swim. I can't handle this right now. Well, six months goes by and her brain is like, oh, like slowly catching up to the fuckingness of it. Yeah. She remembers that a year earlier her son had been playing in the wooded backyard and

he finds a half buried, complete human skeleton and she's like, oh shit. And she's like, honey, please tell me an excuse because I can't handle this. And he told her that his father had been a doctor. She said it. He said it had been one of his dissecting dissecting skeletons, but he stored it in the garage and then buried it in the backyard after he decided to clean the garage as you do. And there was the slippers and Brian, you know, it's like this all the time.

Well, this happens. I thought you were gonna say, and I feel like other people did too, like this son found like a human femur or just someone small thing, not a half buried human motherfucking skeleton, all like West Craven presents in your backyard. It is so upsetting. That poor kid, man, Jesus, he's not having a good life or hope he is or or he's living his best life. That's right.

He became Oprah Winfrey. Love it. Love it. In addition, for several months at a time, she and the kids would get the fuck out of there and visit his mother, leaving her but home alone for like months at a time. Makes sense. Right. When you leave your husband for months and go to his mom's house because she's cooler

to hang out with than your husband. His mom's cooler than him. Yeah. That's that. That's your marriage. Yeah. Great. Bye.

And the timeline, she like put it together in the timeline matched of when the guys were disappearing. So she was like, you know what, I'm going to file for divorce and then she calls Mary and she's like, get the fuck over here now. He's out of town. So in June of 96, Mary, she, Mary goes to, Mary along with some skeptical officers who of course are like, they ran away to the big city, you know, still, no. It simply must be so.

Yeah. Well, I don't look at evidence. I make it up. Easy, easy. Yeah. I was like, I thought you were like, easy, easy, no, no, no, easy, peasy, got it. Um, they, they go to the property to search, they step out into the backyard and they immediately encounter a bone about a foot long chart from having been burned in the backyard as well

as fragments of bones strewn about and even human teeth, dude. That's from my uncle's dentist dental company that he used to be loved gardening so much. We heard it helps the plants grow and keeps the bugs away, sprinkle teeth on petunias. Oh, the colors, the state fair every year I enter them. It is nightmare. You walk out from an indoor pool into fucking the bone yard, like crunch, crunch, what? The sheriffs are like, we don't think this is, oh fuck. And Mary's like, gun, yeah, what did I tell you?

I fucking told you so. After police thoroughly searched the 18 acre estate, they turn up the remains of 11 men. Um, early in his investigation, Vanda Griff, good old fucking reliable Vanda Griff, he's going to be played by a hound dog, I think, you know, I mean, with a fucking, oh yeah, I don't know what I mean, yeah, Cat and Co, yes, yeah, McGrath, he's McGrath, that's right, he's halfway there, it's all there, McGrath, Vanda Griff, where we go, so easy. So he had made connections to the disappearances of gay men in Indianapolis between them and the strangling murders of gay men whose bodies were found dumped along the corridor of interstate

70 in Indiana and Ohio between Indianapolis and Columbus, is that right, which had been dubbed the I-70 murders. And it's Herb? Well, here we go. Oh, sorry. Yes. Thank you for listening. That's my story.

Good night. Um, the last known I-70 murder, nine of them in all, had been committed in 1990, not long before the Indianapolis disappearances began. So Julie Bowmeister told authorities that her husband made as many as 100 trips to Ohio and on what he said was a business trip, you know, as you do at your thrift store fucking shopper. You got to get that good Ohio thrift clothing, right? You guys have all those grandma sweaters.

I mean, I would do it. I would do it right now. I would go right now. Firstly, go dig up the rest of your ladies' farm, then you fucking go. Then we go down to Sweaterland, or is it down? Don't know where I am. That way. Not sure where I am.

Is there barbecue on the way? We stopped for barbecue on the way. Good, good, good. Great. Then, so 100 business trips on what he said of a store business, and during the late 80s, his photo match, the police sketch drawn from witnesses who thought they had seen the I-70 Stringler, which I think was a fucking sketch of it, because Stephen's awesome. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do,

do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, done, done, do, do, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done, done. So, so he, so he officially later declared the I-70 killer. So, this guy, during the time, during the stretch, during the search of his property, he herb disappears, herb.

Do you know why I did that? And I feel like I was, I knew I was going to do that at some point, because when I was a kid, I called herbs, herbs, and my mom yelled at me for it, so it's a triggering issue. So now I see the word herb, and I'm like, don't fuck that up, but it's herb. Jesus. So many issues on the table tonight. So many. You would never even, you wouldn't expect it.

We look so normal. I mean, really. So they arrested herb. Herb. Herb. So, he disappears from the place he's staying out of town when he finds out they're searching his property. He was at Lake Wawassi in Kosikochisiko County, where we'll be touring next.

Kosikochisiko. Yeah, that's the one. Then he enters, what? Thank you. Then he enters. Yes. Now it's perfectly clear. Thank you.

I learned in Oregon not to repeat the name, because I got it wrong again, and everyone just yells it louder. Oh my God. That was so good. Do you remember the name of that city? Fuck no. Yeah. It's tough.

It was hard though. Very difficult. Okay, so he goes out of town, and he goes into Canada on June 30th. He ends up in Grand Bend, Ontario, and they're at Pineary Park on the evening of July 3rd. Herb writes a suicide note, attributing his decision to kill himself to his failing business and irreparable marriage. But no, it doesn't mention the skeletons or the dead men. That's okay.

No, it's because his marriage sucks. You know what I mean? Yeah. The three-page suicide note said that he would now eat a peanut butter sandwich, which was his favorite snack, and then go to sleep. He even apologized for messing up the park. Then he put a 375 magnum, the.375 magnum, I don't know guns, revolver, barrel, I don't know percentages.

He put 375 guns into his mouth, just to be sure. But he didn't. That's Herb. Yeah. He puts it to his forehead. He pulls the trigger. His body is found eight days later. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, it's some hikers going, what's that smell? It's always, what's that smell from hikers? And what are all those flies doing over there? The evening before he died, a Canadian trooper stopped him to ask him why he was sleeping in his car. To ask him why the long face. I'm sorry.

Hey, why the peanut butter sandwich in the long face? Quit messing up this park. Before letting him go, she notices some luggage in the back and what looked like a pile of videotapes in his back seat. But when they find his car, no signs of the videotapes, they're never recovered. Police suspect he threw them into a river before he went and killed himself. I hope so. And Virgil van de Gryff said, well, these videotapes of the murders he committed, were

these the videotapes of the murders he committed in the pool at Fox Hollow Farms? We'll never know. And perhaps it's for the best. But then... You have to play Virgil Granthagra. Clearly. Thank you. Okay.

Really quickly. Then, of course, I looked in the email, sorry, you guys, my allergies over here, you know, the city. Okay, hey, Georgia and Karen, I started your podcast months ago and been meaning to send you my hometown murder, but I'm so fucking forgetful and lazy, I never got around to it until now. Hey, hi. I'm from a small city of Westfield, Indiana, and have lived here my whole life.

My hometown murder starts when I was around 10 and I used to hang out with my friend, about six out of the seven days of a week for the summers I lived there, something. I was thrilled to find out that they moved to a beautiful farmhouse about a mile away from where I lived. No, no, no. Oh, no, it's not. Did we get the... It's not that.

It's not. It's totally that. Trick you. Not only because this house was a hop skip and a jump away from my house, I love that, but it was fucking insane. They had acres of land where they're newly purchased horses around a giant mansion, an oddly-rememberable indoor pool where we spent most of our time. Oh, really?

And what about the ghosts that were there with you? Well, I never got a creepier, eerie feeling about the house until I was older and started noticing odd things, such as the secret room behind my friend's bathroom mirror. Say it again. Say it again. What's this you say? I never got a creepier, eerie feeling about the house until I was older and started noticing odd things about the secret room behind my friend's bathroom mirror.

Oh, room behind a mirror? Then you go into the room, face first through a mirror. It just said murder room. Face first into the room. Or maybe the fact that we found, quote, animal bones in the backyard. Our parents freaked out a little more than I thought they would. But it wasn't until I was watching a local network when I found out that the fairy house my friend lived in, Fox Hollow Farms, was previously owned by a serial killer.

My parents obviously knew, but kept it from me because of my age. Apparently, then she says, killed them in the indoor swimming pool. I didn't realize. Don't worry, it doesn't stop there. He continued to burn them in the fireplace and bury them in the backyard. So he burned them in his fireplace, which I didn't find that info anywhere else. It's a pretty interesting story if you guys ever have time to read it, which I know you won't.

It says that. So negative. Yeah. Well, that's all I have. Love the podcast. If you're ever in Indianapolis, maybe we can take a tour of the farm, SSDGM, Maddie. Turb. Balmeister.

Balmeister. Way to go, Indianapolis. I mean, that is, there is a ghost hunters or a haunting. There's an episode of one of those shows. And that's the first time I heard of this story. Yeah. And it is such a bummer because everything else is bad, real time, how it happened, the fact that it was like just a marginalized group of people who were like, oh, it's not

a problem that these men are disappearing, all those things, the fact that people, you know, these murders get away with killing people. And then he gets to just kill himself and never have to deal with any of it. Never talk about it. Which is so frustrating. Then mannequins, indoor pools, as we've talked about. Behind the mirror rooms. I mean, then on top of it, ghosts, then you fucking fold some ghost feelings inside there.

I want to think this fucking town because sometimes we'll go to a city and I'm like, I don't know. I've done every Chicago murder. I don't know what else to do. At this town, I was like, oh my God, this is, I felt like a gift that was given to me. I get to tell everybody about her. Yeah. Thank you.

So good. That was amazing. It was so good. Yeah. Thank you. I didn't mean like, that was amazing, Georgia. We're, even if you don't clap, we're going to be like, that was fucking incredible and standing avation.

Can I show you? Georgia font. Let's see it. Told you. Oh, that is gorgeous. Thank you. It's so clear. Thank you.

It's so not convoluted like I am. What was in the room behind the mirror and why wouldn't you just put a secret door instead of how do you get into a room that's behind a mirror? Is there another door besides the mirror, like a full length fucking mirror in a different room? Does it have to be mirrors? Are you a warlock of some kind? Is there anyone that knows the answers?

Yeah. Who built that mirror for him? Did they come over and like, sure. Yeah. He was like, it's for my mannequin. It's my mannequin room. My mannequin asked if they could have a secret room behind the mirror and I was like, you know what?

It's your birthday. Yes. You get this. And the builder was like, okay. Yeah. Here's my bill. Everything's cool. You get to live your life.

Do you think that we have time? Yes. And here's the cool part. This is on our system. We've got a story. You tweeted at us today or yesterday. And I need to hear the story about the girl who dressed up in her murdered cousin's clothes. That's coming out wrong.

Someone put her into clothes. Wait. There's a girl that's about to come up here. Dress in her murder. Let's let her explain it. I see her there. Okay. Come around this way.

Come around this way and then army roll, army crawl, which has happened. Let's bring out our hometown ladies. Where are you? Thank you. Oh, hi. Thank you. Hi, what's your name? You probably don't need.

Taylor. Taylor. We don't need all that. We don't need it. Hi, Rebecca. You don't need it. Do you guys want to get up on this like backup singers? Yeah.

Fun. Here, we can just say something. Taylor and Rebecca explain that tweet so that people understand. What's your name? Noah. Let's give it up for Noah. And this is Noah. Making it all happen for us.

Sound wise. Thank you. Here, talking to... Thanks, Noah. Thank you. Okay. Well, this doesn't work. Use it anyway.

Show business. So I sent the tweet out, but it's her story. Get out of here. It had to be told. Too creepy and weird. Are you guys related? No. We work together.

Oh, okay. Yeah. So I actually sent this in as an email, and I was telling Becca about it, and she was like, no, no, no. No, you have to tell the story. So this actually happened before I was born. My mom was actually pregnant with me, and I am from one of those families in Southern Indiana who has all of these cousins, they're not actually cousins, they're just like through

marriage or like your parents are really close friends or whatever. It's easier to say about it. We have that in California too. It's called having friends. So I have, I called in my cousins, but at the time there was Jamie who was like four and Sherri Lynn who was about a year and a half old and their parents had just gotten divorced. And their dad was in the Navy, and he was stationed in Pearl Harbor, and he got custody

of the kids after the divorce, whatever, whatever, took the kids off to Pearl Harbor, and one day he was like, Sherri Lynn's missing. She's gone. Is she the older one or the younger one? She's the younger one. She's like a year and a half old. Okay. And she's like, she's gone.

I don't know what happened. I went out. I met this woman. I brought her back. And then I just noticed that she was gone. So like two days later, happened to notice that my children weren't there anymore. So two days later they found a body in Pearl Harbor in a duffel bag that was just like floating along, you know, Hawaii, and Sherri Lynn is inside.

And so he claims that he doesn't know, he doesn't know what's happened. And then this woman comes forward and she's like, I was the woman he took home that night. She wouldn't stop crying and he was like, oh, just ignore the baby. This is fine. We can, you know, like still have our time together. Yeah, let's still make out over crying baby. Yeah. Yeah.

And she was like, no, this is like really fucking weird, man. I don't want to like kiss you while your baby's crying. And so she left and, yeah, right. So what eventually happened is that he got really mad and strangled the baby and was like, I don't know what to do with this body. So let's just like put it in like a national monument. No one's going to find it. That's right.

And so they, it was actually kind of the same thing. He was acquitted with like a regular jury, but then like the Navy, remember, I don't know what story that was. NCIS. I don't remember. Yeah, NCIS. Yeah. Mark Harman doesn't fuck around with stuff like that.

He'll come after your ass. So he went to jail and they're doing this investigation. So my mom is like nine and 10,000 months pregnant with me at the time and the FBI like bursts into her work and is like, what do you know about this? And she's like, I'm just a little pregnant woman. I have no clue what you're talking about. Oh my God. That whole story.

Yeah. So he ends up going to jail for like 15 years. And when he gets out, the first thing he does is he comes back to Indiana and he visits the grave. And I had like family members who were there at the time and he just like awkwardly walked up and was like, hey, guys, like, oh, you're like, can you get out of here? Yeah. Like this is really awkward.

And then he's never been seen again. Like we, yeah, we've never seen him again, but I had an aunt who kept all of her clothes and every year when I had like my pictures at like three, four, five, six, oh my God, they put me in her clothes until I was like too big. Why, why, why, why, why? Who would do that? And why? They just get to this age and they're going to have to buy her own clothes and they're

like, hey, because she also looks like her. Oh girl. So there's, there's a set of like two pictures where you can't really tell who's who because we're in the same clothes. Yeah. It's like a V.C. Andrews novel. What the fuck?

Wow. That's holy. I wish she could put a photo up right now. I know. I wish, I tried to find one. I emailed my mom yesterday and she was like, yeah, dude, we don't look at those. They're scary. Your mom's like, dude, what is wrong with you?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. As most of our family does. Yeah. My family's pretty messed up. Wow. That's a good one. Taylor, you guys.

Yeah. Thank you so much. Well done. Good job. Very good. You guys did this. Good job. Thank you.

A little bag? Yeah. From the dollar store. Oh. It's shared on the Facebook page, but the little bag's from the dollar store. That's a top secret official report and it talks about a fake arson. It's like an evidence bag. Yeah.

That's fucking cool. It looks super cute. What's inside? Let's make a pledge for the bank. So I have tissues and bobby pins. Can I have a tissue? Can I have a tissue? Yeah.

Georgia needs those. Thank you so much. You can have a whole thing. Awesome. Just one? Oh, okay. Do you have any gum or anything? Yes, I have some of the gum.

Oh, yeah. I'll take that whole pack. Bye. Thank you. Nice to meet you. Thank you guys. Good job. Thank you so much.

I'm not, not a hugger. Too bad I don't have pockies. Yeah. Next time. Next time. That was perfect. You guys, that was so awesome. Thank you so much.

Yay. That was good. See, we can make mistakes and then we can make good mistakes. And we can steal gum and tissues. We can steal gum and we can have what we want and let people tell the worst story of all time. And that's what this is all about. Getting what we want.

That's right. Over and over. In the most horrible way. Thank you so much for being here tonight. Thank you guys. We love you. This has been really awesome. What a great show.

What an awesome audience. Really. We would love it if you would stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Bye you guys. Bye. Bye you guys. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.