My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 7 - Seven Murders in Heaven

Episode Date: March 12, 2016

This week the girls discuss their favorite unsolved murders, including The Black Dahlia and Elisa Lam. Plus a hometown murder story by Doug Loves Movie cohost Karen Anderson and listener's favorite murders! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Interac. Interac has a range of tools to help your business grow. Quickly and easily identify customers with Interac Verified. Pay your employees via bulk disbursement with Interac eTransfer for Business.

Or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus, your payments are safe with authentication and transaction encryption. Interac, we geek out on your business. Learn how at interact.ca slash forbusiness. Terms and conditions apply. Hi. Hey, y'all. You guys, hi, we're back. Hi! Heyo! You guys, hi, we're back.

Hey, we're back from a week-long hiatus. And now we're here to deliver your favorite. To give you nightmares and anxiety. Your favorite. My favorite. Murder. Everyone's favorite. My favorite. Murder. I didn. My favorite. Murder. Everyone's favorite. My favorite. Murder.

I didn't get that. Sorry. We should have rehearsed that. We should have. That's Karen. And that's Georgia. And yes, we've been on a slight hiatus. Yeah.

We had life things happen to us. Very large life things. Not murder. Thank God. No. But nice things georgia got married at a beautiful ceremony on the coast thank you karen's mom died she died after a long illness yeah i'm sorry it's okay it was actually really lovely yeah it was kind of for me it was a big uh about two week period though of stress yeah or just like big feelings of waiting between her passing and

having to do the and the memorial yeah which is rare right yeah i think my dad was waiting he put a little time in there so that people could come come and plan it out and make sure they were there. And then it turned out to be a brilliant idea because there was tons of people. It was really lovely. That's great. I'm so glad. Yeah, it was nice. Then I drove back home. The front end of my car fell off.

What? Didn't I tell you that? No. I drove six hours back from San Francisco, took the Riverside exit, came to a stop, and the front bumper, like everything under the lights and down, just went into the street. Oh, shit. And I had, this is my favorite part, I had to pick it up and stick it into my car, which is very small.

And there was a guy in the car next to me. He's like, do you need my help? And I was like, yes. And so he helped me put it in the car. And as he came around the side to help me he looked at all the other cars around us and goes you can help people you know and started yelling at everybody else for not helping me oh i love him which was beautiful and how i think many of us feel yeah yeah that's so nice yeah there's this like do i help or is that weird if i help right and can i

be of help like if it was me i'd be like can I even lift that thing or whatever do you need anything yeah yeah do you want me to park in front of your car with my lights on so if they hit me they won't hit you who's out of her car should I use myself as a human shield exactly to make sure no more damage comes to your car exactly or do you want me to play some really good music so you can like do this with. Get it done. Yeah. And how do you feel after, after your big weekend? I feel great at the wedding.

The whole fucking weekend was like, I'm going to cry if I start talking about it. It was like perfect and wonderful. And like this outpouring of love. And Vince said this really sweet thing of like you know when you go to weddings and you're really you can tell a wedding people believe that you're gonna you're a good couple when they have a really good time at your wedding yes you know what I mean like you don't want to fucking dance to like boogie on down when you're like well I'm pretty sure he's gonna die of a heroin overdose or cheat on her or she's like

I know she's fucked or you know no everybody would everybody had like hearts in their own eyes about your guy's marriage it was nice and everybody cried at the ceremony because you you started having a little bit of a cry voice but like you were trying to cover it i was so your voice just kept getting higher and higher and higher it was my favorite you were like it was so cute there was this moment that when i when i first got up there like i just had immediately started crying but i didn't want tears because i didn't want my makeup to get ruined so it just came out of my nose instead and i i gestured towards vince's um pocket square. Yeah.

And he like thought I, he fixed it because he thought I was like in the middle of our ceremony going like fix your pocket square. And I was, I was fortified. I was like, no, can I have that? And he gave it to me and I just snotted all over his pocket square. But what kind of a human being would I be

if I was like fix your pocket square? I think he was just like, whatever you need, this is what I'm doing. What you need. That was a really hilarious moment, though, because no, I didn't see the fix it. Okay, good. Or any of that. I literally saw you point toward it. And then him flick out. Yeah, like a magician, a big, huge red handkerchief. It was very, very cute. Okay, good. And that's what i'm all about these days real feelings real time real feelings here they are they're just out there and you can grab them and well because and it's like of course you're crying of course it's like these are you know these are the peak experiences of all of our lives are the days to hold on to these because they will not last forever

nope right they won't they won do they want to something because i want to i'm doing billy joel which one are you doing i think i'm doing that too these are the days to hold on to that one these are big this has been my favorite murder goodbye people are like i got nothing that i came here for no we mean we're murdering it at life yeah murders we're murdering emotions before we talk about our favorite murders i want to ask you and i haven't watched this week but did you watch uh this people versus oj simpson last week oh yeah did you how did you feel about dominic dunn's character? Okay, wait. Is it the one where he was standing?

Was it the part where he was standing there? Are you talking about last week? Or I just watched one last night. No, I didn't watch that one yet. Okay. The one where he first makes an appearance. And everyone knows who he is. He's like a famous crime journalist.

I felt good about his character. Like, I felt like it was accurate to who Dominic Dunn was. And it was amazing. But he was like, he reminded me, character remind is so outlandish and insane as a human being he he is yeah that he it reminded me of um like in cold blood uh what's his name truman capote's character you know it's just so outlandish and it's really not necessary in the show right but i loved it well but he is i mean i bet you part of the reason he's there is because he wrote so much on that trial in the real time yes and kind of contributed to probably what they're researching like they

might be reading some of his stuff no you're totally're totally right. Is he still alive? Dominic Dunn? I don't think so. I don't, I'm not sure. And of course we all know his daughter, Dominique Dunn. Yeah. Got shot by a rabid fan of hers. Stalker. Yeah.

A stalker. Pretty amazing. I mean, he's kind of one of the original and he had a great, uh, power, privilege and justice. that was a,

was such a good show. Really good show, but you can find it online. Yeah. And he, but he's not a good narrator you can find it online. Yeah. And he. But he's not a good narrator because he talks too slow. Right. And he has a lot of gravitas that he doesn't.

He that he adds on that he doesn't need. Yeah. Where it's like you already have tiny glasses. We know that you know what you're talking about. Well, what's so great about the people versus OJ Simpson is there's so many moments in it, including his gravitas and his you know cadence that you have to we've stopped so many times during the show to be like did that really happen and look it up and it fucking really happened you mean like the faye resnick thing yes that was

amazing a fucking brentwood hello a brentwood hello is that even there's no way that was a thing they did i bet it was are you serious. I bet it was. Are you serious? Yes. I bet it was in the book. Right. I bet someone researched the book. No, no, for sure. But I mean, do you think her book was totally true?

Oh, I see what you're saying. Because she seemed like a boozy fool. No, then no, I don't think it was true. I mean, like, it just seemed like she was talking. Yeah, she's like, we did coke all the time. We were crazy. Which is like, sure, probably. But to act like you did that every morning in random homes.

Right. And that was like the lifestyle and not like they had children that they had to raise and take to school and stuff. Yeah. But I mean, that part, I actually did look up what Faye Resnick's role was because I didn't remember her from when it happened in real life. And it will, that stuff was true.

Oh my God. Someone posted on our, our Facebook group, uh, their cop, their photo, their copy of that book that they've had. Like it's like an original copy or something.

It's like, this is a, this is a good group of people, man. If, if I get murdered terribly, I will, you can spill it.

You know what? You know you have my official digital permission to just say whatever you think would work best and make you the most money. What do you think a burping goodbye is? Really gross. That'd be like slightly dinging the side of your minivan out of a Trader Joe's parking lot. Bye. Yeah. All right. So today our theme Joe's parking lot. Bye. Yeah. All right.

So today we're, our theme is unsolved murder. Yes. It's an easy one because, because we've been busy and I think, didn't I make it up while we were standing in the parking lot at the end of your wedding? Yes.

You were like, you know what, let's just, here's a nice open one that won't, that we'll have lots of choices for. Yeah. But I feel like throughout, like as, as we go on, there'll be easier and of choices for. Yeah. But I feel like throughout, like as,

as we go on, there'll be easier and then they're going to get harder and harder. God, do you think they're going to get easier, then get harder and then get easier again? Yeah. Like, I think there'll be a point where we're like,

we're just getting too specific. We need to get, you know what I mean? When we like, like try to make it easier on ourselves. Yes. Over like sandwiches. We're going to,

we're going to be, we're going to work all the way down to two shots to the back of the head at midnight and then we'll be like murders that happened in 1936 in january of 1936 the pantaloon murder yeah uh do you want to go first do you whatever you think i have a theory we were just talking about this george and i both think that there's a chance we may have picked the same unsolved murder. Yeah. Let me tell you what my original one was going to be,

but I ended up changing. Cause I was like, because first of all, it was, it's like near your hometown. Oh, okay. So there's no way you didn't know it.

And then, Oh fuck. Hold on. And then I looked it up and it was like, I had liked it because there was like, it was just so random, but that meant there really wasn't that much interesting stuff about it. Right.

And then also, um, it also meant that I also looked up and it was like, the, the, this is who probably did it. And so it was like, not,

it seemed kind of a, like an obvious answer. Exactly. So it was the 2000. Mine was going to be the Jenner, California double murder in 2004 where those kids were camping out on a beach and just got shot with a fucking rare weird gun. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about? Yes.

Because it didn't just happen there. It also happened in San Francisco. Yes. Yeah. So I hadn't realized that had happened. I hadn't realized that they had a couple obvious suspects. And so I was going to do that. I like that one, though, because and also weren't they like when I like the story when

you're reading it and it's like these were two children from a Christian camp. Oh, yeah. They were like as squeaky clean as you could possibly be. Yeah, they were. And out in the middle. Jenner is like a big grassy open field of nothing. The idea that you would get murdered in Jenner is like someone was going way out of their way. Right.

Or knew the area so well. Right. And was the first thing that came to my mind was that they piss. They it was they piss someone off earlier the day. Yeah. Maybe road rage rage and they saw their fucking car parked out there in the middle of the night you know something's really simple yeah there's also that that rando um serial killer that just traveled all across the whole

united states i think his first name was israel holy you know that guy no and he looks like he looks like a guy that would work at REI. When I saw his picture, I got super freaked out. I don't know. I don't think I've ever been in an REI. REI is like, you know, like Patagonia. It's a North Face. Who works?

I don't know who looks. Oh, just like a dude who would have like medium length, sandy blonde, curly hair. Necklace. Yes. A rope necklace. That's what this guy looked like and he was randomly killing people all across the country everywhere he went and then when they caught him he committed suicide so he never no one knows if like what he it's just so interesting that the gun was it was from like 1896 oh is that right a shotgun from 1896 that's probably wrong

but like a really old vintage yeah you shouldn't kill someone with a gun so rare everyone take note if you're gonna kill someone make it a really obvious gun uh or not obvious gun yeah because the no the antique guns obvious right right yeah yeah what was he like loading a musket on the beach yeah they were saying it was one of those fucking guns. No. Yeah. That's terrible. That would mean that there's a delay between killing one and killing the other.

Yeah. And he must have been a good shot if it was at night. Oh, yeah. And he grabbed the shell casings too. So there's no shell casings left, which means he must have known where they went because if he was in the sand, maybe he grabbed them out of the air or had like a. Oh, he had a metal detector. Did I tell you Raleigh got me a metal detector for yeah what yeah who did ally got me for fucking for my wedding no that is the best gift i've ever heard of you have no i've been talking

about that wanting one and like just wanting to disappear from life and go be a metal detectives yes a detectress oh my god that's my new show the detectress the detectress because i just saw a thing for metal detector vacations and i was like i want to meet the person who would want to go on a metal detector vacation with me because that is like i every time i see something like that i'm like that's what i like yes i can never figure out what i like right till i see it i just saw a guy who fucking found a viking treasure in england yes with the metal detector you mean the horde of coins yes yes well it's so funny i didn't know that so did you know that metal detector is just something you can just like buy on amazon i had no idea yeah like i didn't it seems like something i want so bad that it doesn't make any sense

that's just like a thing you can buy for like probably 59 oh like you think the government I had no idea. Yeah. Like I didn't, it seems like something I want so bad that it doesn't make any sense. That's just like a thing you can buy for like probably $59. Oh, like you think the government issues them for thousands of dollars. Or they're like, you can't get a cheap one. They don't work. You know,

like they only work. So my, you want to go with me to the fucking abandoned zoo in Griffith park? Hell yeah. And we'll go. And she bought me a shovel and gloves. Hi, I'm Una Chaplin and I'm the host of a new podcast called Hollywood Exiles. It tells the story of how my grandfather, Charlie Chaplin, and many others were caught up in a campaign to root out communism in Hollywood.

It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Interac. Interac has a range of tools to help your business grow. Quickly and easily identify customers with Interac Verified. Pay your employees via bulk disbursement

with Interac e-. Pay your employees via bulk disbursement with Interac eTransfer for Business. Or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus, your payments are safe with authentication and transaction encryption. Interac. We geek out on your business. Learn how at interact.ca slash forbusiness. Terms and conditions apply. All right, well, what's your real one if that was your fake one? Okay, so then I changed it to a kind of one that everyone knows and loves, but this is going to be my favorite and, like, I think the most realistic answer to.

Okay, your favorite unsolved murder. My favorite unsolved murder is the Black Dahlia. Yes. Oh, my God. She was in my black dahlia yes oh my god i was she was in my top three was she yeah who was the other one that you didn't do uh well john bonnet but i knew we already discussed her at length she john bonnet is the one that i want to know the answer the most yeah and then the black dahlia second that reminds me so there was a conversation about black about about JonBenet in the Facebook group.

It's called My Favorite Murder. Everyone join it. Hi. And someone brought a really good point up where they, you know, the really weird, the piece of that puzzle that doesn't, that doesn't make everything else fit is that there was a foreign DNA in her underwear. And someone brought up the fact that there was some kind of like, you know, Reddit conversation where maybe that came from the manufacturer of those underwear. Huh?

Like, I think they did some testing on other underwear from the same place in China. And maybe that's where the DNA is. Maybe it has nothing to do with the murder. That would be an interesting thing. But that must have come up before like underwear is usually what they test i've never heard dna in those you've never heard of foreign that theory oh no i i never have but wouldn't you think that they would have they would rule that out i don't know but i don't know I feel like there's so much bias in that case that it maybe wouldn't have crossed anyone's mind.

Maybe. But it also opens that door to the whole sex ring, you know, thing that like it might not have had anything to do with what happened that night. Totally. But something bad was already happening to her anyway. Yeah. Well, I would call that like outlandish, except that she was a beauty queen i know it's like so fucked up yeah that whole world i just saw a picture of her today looking at my thing and yeah if anyone knows the answer tell us we won't tell anyone that you told us yeah we just want to know yeah if you killed john just email us

make a fake email address real quick yeah javane's killer do just sign up for a hotmail real quick hotmail's fine and just be like here's what i did here's what i did here's why i did it super sorry yeah oops um okay so all right so everyone knows the story of Elizabeth Short. Where am I? Elizabeth Short, the Black Dahlia. She was found in a vacant lot in Los Angeles, 39th and Norton, if anyone is in L.A. and wants to go find it. There's a house or a school there now.

She was naked, cut in half. She was severely mutilated, posed in the grass. She had no blood left on her and uh of course the um the detective said it looked like someone a medical man they said that or a man with the vast medical knowledge had had mutilated her um and so okay recently i i watched the um j James Elroy documentary about, it's called Feast of Death. It's basically a bunch of men sitting around a table eating dinner talking about murder and death. All men, because why would a woman know anything? Well, if there's no women, they can really be themselves.

Right. Okay, so I found that psychologist Alicia LeVere was a Herald Express writer, and she did a series of columns profiling the whole case. And she profiled, she identified the person as a possible older woman who had either committed the crime or inspired the person who killed her. And all these reasons, it was like a psychological profile of why it could be a woman is that person you're talking about that wrote those columns from back then or now she it was from back then okay um and then john e douglas he retired uh there's a thing called the fbi behavioral analysis unit which like i want to i'll intern like you don't have to pay me yes you know where they find

where they're sitting they're going it's a single man right between 30 and 35 hates his mom yeah that kind of thing love it love it he probably works at this this job or that job yeah awesome so he created a profile that kind of backed up her theory that it could have been an older woman who would have done this or inspired it. Okay, and then finally, researcher Larry Harnish had a theory that, and he had written an article in the LA Times on the 50th anniversary, and he uncovered a connection between the dump site on 39th and Norton Street and one of the suspects, who is now now a suspect and I think this is what James Alvarez thing was about that there was a 67 year old doctor have you heard this theory before

I think well tell me you love it 67 year old doctor named Walter Alonzo Bailey his he used to live in his estranged life wife currently lived one block away from the dump site whoa okay that's like interesting um what's more interesting is that bailey's daughter adopted daughter was friends with elizabeth's shorts why do i keep wanting to say Elizabeth's marks? Because Elizabeth's marks that girl that got kidnapped. Yeah. Yeah. Elizabeth

shorts sister. So Bailey's doctor's daughter. They were so close that this that the

daughter was a witness in Elizabeth shorts wedding. So that's pretty. But there's no

evidence that they ever met. But you're kind of like they had to know each other yeah okay so he was a stranger with his wife who lived a block away he left his wife for a mistress named alexandria um partaka who was also a doctor um and after bailey's death in 1948 again again, the murder took place in 1947. It came out that he left this mistress all his money. And the estranged wife said it was because he had, quote, terrible secrets that could have ruined him.

People are guessing that maybe he gave secret abortions, which were illegal at the time. guessing that maybe he was he gave secret abortions which were illegal at the time and there was another theory a long time ago that a doctor who gave abortions had accidentally killed elizabeth short perhaps and that's where the murder had you know that's why he had to get rid of her body and not report it is that he was getting abortions which were illegal but there's no evidence to support that she was ever pregnant. So we don't know that for sure. But we do know that Elizabeth Short used to tell men, maybe for sympathy, that she had a son who had died. And it turns out that Bailey did have a son who had died. And he died on years earlier, but it was January 13th. And her body was found on the 15th.

So, I mean, pure speculation, clearly. But she's pleading with him to help her with whatever it is. This person that her sister knows. Her sister doesn't live in town. She doesn't have anyone else who lives in town. Goes to the doctor of her sister's friend. Or father of her sister's friend. And then if it was a woman then

maybe maybe she got jealous and killed this girl killed elizabeth short maybe i don't know you know what i mean yeah okay let's see and so so he was 67 he when he died they found a degenerative brain disease he had. And it was known to produce violent behavior in otherwise passive individuals. And then one of the things was like, well, how would he have moved her body? Well, the body was fucking sliced in half. Maybe the body was sliced in half for an older man or a woman to be able to move. To carry one piece at a time.

Yeah. Or it was drained of blood. Who knows? So, I mean, there's little pieces of it that I really, really love. You should,

Feast of Death is on, I think it's on Amazon. It's definitely on YouTube. It's a little, you know, fucking James Elroy is like, He's a bit of a drama queen. Yeah.

He's too, he's too dramatic for his own good. Well, he's too dramatic for his own good. Well, he has his thing with his own mother, which is amazing. Like it's amazing. He can talk about it,

but then it does add this. He's very intense. It's very intense. So you kind of like, it's already an intense subject. Yeah. Well, his,

so his mom got kidnapped and did they find her body or they never find her? I think they did find it. Oh, she was on the side of the road. Yeah. Murdered. Yeah. Well, his, so his mom got kidnapped and did they find her body or did they never find her? I think they did find it. Oh, she was on the side of the road. Yeah. Murdered. Yeah. And they think, who knows what the murderer was never found.

Yeah. So he's clearly, and he was a little kid when this happened. He psychologically fucked up from it. I, I've read a lot of his books up into a point where they like got too silly. Right. Where like the vernacular was just too like beat poet yes but before that i fucking loved his books and i read all of them they're great yeah but this i mean it's still a good this is a good program to watch by yourself at night

i remember watching something and i it's this is bad to bring up especially for our research heads but there was something i was reading, and it was the theory, and maybe this was a dramatized version, but it was like the theory that they took her to a place to murder her and torture her because clearly she was tortured. What I read when I was looking to see if I was going to do the Black Talia, one of the things I read really quickly was that she died from uh an injury to the head but also those cuts on her face because she had a smile cut into her face ear to ear and

the bleed bleeding out blood loss from those cuts could kill you yeah so she like just because it was so much bleeding wow um so she was somewhere for an extended period of time, just bleeding and being tortured. Yeah. Because head injuries bleed a lot. Uh, yeah, I think so.

But then, but also like, you know, cutting into your cheeks. Right. I mean that thing. And also just to find that. Yeah.

When I, I remember first, very first reading that story and it's that picture of her upper body in the you know in the grass the angles of those are so disturbing it's so disturbing and to think because wasn't it a mother and a child yeah it was a mom i think with a stroller walking up on that thing yep and they thought it was a mannequin yeah and like there's a photo of it of the scene with her body covered with um just her body covered with a blanket and it's like so obvious that the bottom part of her body is too long to be part you know what i mean it's like

they're not something isn't right with the length of her body and it's because her fucking torso her lower body is like and did you see i'd never seen really the cut really well until today yeah it's pretty exact yes yeah and and i think i wonder if if like cops today would immediately assume it was like a doctor or medical man that did it because because i guess these days people can do much more and not have any training well you have to think of like a butcher could do that. Like a barber could probably cut like that with a straight razor pretty well. Like I think there's a lot of professions that could do that. Not necessarily, but could they bleed someone that well?

Right. Well, a butcher could. A butcher could. Can I tell you that one of my grandfathers was a butcher in LA and one of my grandfathers was a barber in LA. So it's probably one of them during that time. And there's also, there's a guy that thinks his father did it. Yeah. That guy. And so that's the thing is that James Elroy backed his story too. And, and now isn't, which, you know, that house is just down the street from here.

Really? So this guy, this guy found, uh, photographs in his like evil fucked up father's, uh, possessions after he died. And one of them was a photo of what he thought was the Black Dahlia. If you look at it, it's clearly not. It's not her. I mean, but it's their similarities. And then he so that this house that he had lived in then, which is in Los Feliz.

There's a gorgeous art deco house. It's incredible. Had a secret room where this this father guy would actually give abortions oh um and they had put he had like hired someone to bring cadaver dogs in when he was like uh investigating it and they honed in on that area but this guy's a little full of shit i think he thinks his dad is also the zodiac. And like he's since gone on to be so incredible. But but however, the father did

rape his daughter as did he like let other people do it. She took him to court and he got exonerated. So he's a piece of shit either way.

Yeah, the guy isn't wrong about his dad being terrible. Well, and it's probably very easy for him to see and connect, you dad being terrible. Well, and it's probably very easy for him to see and connect, you know, connect dots to things when it's like,

and it would probably be very vindicating to be like, he didn't just screw up our family. He's, he's what everyone fears. He's this monster.

Everyone, yeah, he's a monster. But also I think it's, I think that's, the whole story is fascinating because everybody talks about like, Oh, come to Hollywood, take the bus from Iowa and, and find your dreams.

And it's that seedy underside, this very real, like, and here's the other thing that happens. Women are exploited constantly and you, you get into a system of being beautiful and hoping that men, you know, you're appealing to men and then men will give you money and all these things that it like that the culture kind of, you know, encourages or supports. And,

but then if you get into that, you're the one that gets punished for it. And you, maybe you deserve to die. And like, you know, she wasn't a prostitute, which is what they,

they said in the beginning. She absolutely wasn't. Right. But she did go out with a lot of men because she didn't, she would go out with them to eat because she didn't have enough money for dinner. Like that's what, you know, that's what it's like when you come to LA to be an actress really. So that's not prostitution, but it's almost like, do you, do you, it's the thing of like,

do you live the kind of lifestyle that would put you at risk? And that's, that's one of them. And if you do, then it's your own fault for eventually happening upon someone. I also didn't know that her luggage, she had, her luggage had been checked at the Biltmore Hotel. Oh, really? And she's missing for five days. Like there's no, there's no, the last trace of her that anyone can, can confirm is on January 9th. And her body isn't discovered until the 15th.

So her getting kidnapped would make sense. That's so creepy. That's my favorite. A classic. Unsolved Murder. Unsolved Murder. And isn't there a movie with Josh Hartnett and like Scar Jo? It's based on his,

on James Ellroy's book, the black Dahlia, which is a really good book. The movie was stupid, but I liked the book a lot. Yeah. So go read that. Um,

so Karen, I have a question. Well, mine is also takes place in Los angeles um i'm gonna settle in get a little cozy for a story i went on a real roller coaster ride with this one because there's of course when you look at anything you know like i know what i i knew what i had known about it but i swear to god this second you go on to reddit oh reddit there's just a world of people who have already done so much research and you guys who are obsessed yeah i forgot to credit where i got a lot of this oh

yeah you can i do it real quick deranged lacrimes.com which is like that's the best fucking deranged lacrimes.com made me think of that because of reddit which is like deranged and i love it yes okay um no so wait that's a good website to go to for stuff like that? It seems like it's a fun blog. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, no, this is, I just,

I had my assumptions and I was kind of writing what I thought was going on and then a link led me to Reddit and then it's just all these people are like, I already looked at that and da, da, da,

and it's just theory, theory, theory. And here's why it couldn't be this and here's, yeah. It's fascinating. That's so good. So this is the story of Elisa Lam. And she is the one who, she is the 21-year-old Canadian student who took a trip to, she called it her West Coast tour. She had been in San Diego.

She was stopping over in L.A. before she was going up north and uh she checked in at the cecil hotel which is a hotel downtown near skid row um that used to be fancy so she uh she checks into this the cecil hotel um and so her she is, she's traveling by herself. And, um, so she checked in with her family every day. And so the last day that, um, the day she disappeared, basically, uh, she had gone to the last, um, the last bookstore and had a conversation with somebody there talking about books she was bringing home, hoping they could fit in her suitcase. So basically when the cops talked to that person, it was like no one thought that she wanted to commit suicide or it wasn't anything like that. And she was supposed to check out on February 1st and she never did.

February 1st and she never did. And so, uh, her family, her family calls LAPD on February 1st and says, we haven't heard from her in days. There's something very wrong. You have to check this out. So they start looking into it and they, um, on February 6th, they have a press conference where they say, if you've seen this person and they release, or no, they have, they basically show pictures and they say, if you've seen this person, let us know she's missing. And then, um, on,

uh, February 14th, they end up releasing this now very famous footage of her in the elevator at the Cecil hotel. Now, this is what I remember because I saw this real time and this footage was on the news. I wasn't even, I think the sound was down and there's nothing creepier. There's no sound. Oh, cause you were just watching it. I was watching news, but there is no sound anyway because it's like closed circuit. I see. So you look up and

this thing is happening and this is on and it's, um, it's like, have you seen this girl? And this is on and it's, um, it's like, have you seen this girl? And this is the last known footage of her. Oh my God. And she is in this elevator and she looks, she looks like she's, it's halfway somewhere between her playing hide and seek with somebody and, and her running from somebody because she's, she gets in the elevator, she presses all the buttons, she puts her back up against the wall. Then she peeks out, then she jumps out, then she does a little thing then she comes back in it's playful and it's not it's yeah go on yeah it's just hard to it when when it's presented on the news it's freaky

because it looks like someone's chasing her and she's trying to get the elevator to go it's chilling and then it already looks like a Japanese horror movie without the rest of the story. Exactly. We've seen this movie before. Dark Waters. So then, yes, exactly. So then five days later, after they released that footage, they had been, the people working in the Cecil Hotel had been getting complaints from everybody that was staying there.

This is the most fact. That the water smelled weird and had a weird color. And that the water pressure was really low. So a maintenance worker goes up onto the roof and checks the water cisterns that are on the roof. And Eliza Lamb's dead body is floating in one of the cisterns. Elisa. What, sorry? Elisa.

Elisa? Yeah. Is that, yeah is it at least or elisa elisa okay did i say eliza i did i said elizabeth smart so clearly we're gonna get yelled at by fucking so many people uh we mean well um it's elite it's elisa lamb so so it turns out so as they're as the cops are trying to put this story together, one of the first things that they learned was she was bipolar and she was on like four different medications for her bipolar. So, um, the, you know, the, the, the tape from the elevator immediate immediately puts into everybody's mind. She's being chased. She's being pursued. She's scared.

She's freaking out because it's so weird well then then you find out that she's bipolar and she's on this medicine and um the day that she disappeared she had been staying in a like a youth hostel style shared room and she got moved out of that room and into her own room because the other women staying in that room with her were complaining of her odd behavior. And we didn't know that part. Yeah. So she got moved into a private room because of odd behavior. So there's a theory that she stopped taking some of her medication,

but she kept taking others, and she was taking Sudafed. And that combination, like there's some antidepressants or mood stabilizers. If you mess around with the levels and add in like Sudafed, you can have a psychotic break. So there's people who think that that is what happened. She basically was having a psychotic break was seeing, you know, cause you can have auditory hallucinations,

visual hallucinations. And she basically got herself up onto the roof having all that happen in a manic episode you have all the synergy you don't stop moving and and it would make sense if she was messing around the elevator but um but so that that's one very strong theory on reddit there's a person who absolutely is like this case is closed yeah because the coroner said it that the death was drowning with this special circumstance of bipolar, like being the reason. Yeah.

But the thing is, um, the way she's acting in that elevator, you can only see one angle, which is inside the elevator and a little bit of the hallway. But when she turns one time, she jumps out and this is like two minutes or more it looks like she's talking to somebody up the hallway and she's not in the lobby

sorry i'm dying of consumption um she's actually on the 14th floor of this hotel now as we all know the 14th floor is the 13th floor oh they just change it yeah um and that and the cecil hotel also is a hotel that over the years has had so many jumper suicides that they stopped counting over a 100 people have jumped off of the Cecil Hotel. The 14th floor is also the top floor. So it's basically a 13-floor hotel. And it's the hotel where Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker, stayed in the middle of his killing spree in between San Francisco and L.A. He stayed there for a little while.

So it's a nice little cozy little family hotel. And there was another serial killer who was Austrian who stayed there for a little while in the 90s. So yeah, there's bad, bad vibes and bad juju. And also, so, and so they were saying there were theories that she had to be with somebody because there was a lock. There was no access to the roof and it was alarmed. So people would have known if she had gone up there. But then there is footage.

And this is this is why I love Reddit because it's like so thoroughly researched. There's a Chinese tourist who posted footage where he walks from the 14th floor up to the roof, up to the cisterns, and there's no alarm. There's no lock. There's no anything. I feel like that had to be for the hotel to not be liable. They said that. Exactly right. Yeah, because the parents were suing the hotel.

exactly right yeah because the parents were suing the hotel totally um but the just the weird thing is i mean like this so there's lots of people on reddit who are saying you know like that they had had manic episodes and when you when you're there you get these ideas in your head and you have a lot of you know you have a lot of energy and strength and you you know you don't think obviously it's you know you're it's mania um so it made a lot of sense to them that she would like suddenly see those uh sisters and be like i'm gonna get in there and swim around or whatever idea that she may have had plus i think like i think just because there's something as alarmed doesn't mean that whoever turns off the alarm or notices it is gonna then go check and make sure everything's okay.

Like those are, you know, in a fucking shitty hotel where it's probably understaffed, the alarm goes off, person in the lobby does a thing to turn it off and that's it. Right. And, but more likely that's where,

cause they were saying that's where a lot of people went, like employees went up to smoke, that there was no alarm in the first place. I bet there, I bet even if there was, there was a prop opening the door, like holding the door open for people who smoked. Sure.

The other thing is, when you see these cisterns, it's not like how I first imagined it, which is like one of those big wooden ones you see in New York on roofs. It's four metal, like 10-foot tall containers that are like, they almost look like, um, they look like something from, from the war or whatever, where they're,

they almost look like big bullets. Yeah. So the idea that you would look at that and be like, I'm going to get into that. There's water in there. Like, that's weird to me. Yeah.

You wouldn't look at it and be like, I'm going to go swimming. It just looks like a big, it's a bunch of tanks. You wouldn't know what was in there. Yeah. Unless you had knowledge of that somehow so there's to me all the things like taking everything into account my own theory because immediately when i first heard it i was like oh that's you know there's there's supernatural supernatural or foul supernatural

maybe probably not i mean i do love the idea that it's like it's basically a death hotel but then definitely foul play yes for sure but but going up there like the idea that she would have the idea anyway my theory is that i just don't oh she got in, but then when they removed the body, they had to cut part of the top off to get her out. So, which doesn't add to anything necessarily one way or the other. I just think there's foul play only because if somebody is off their meds or has a thing, I think that it's like a wounded animal in the forest. It doesn't that doesn't mean that people are going to be nicer to you or take care of you. I think that means that if there's people around that that would would be. Yeah.

I'm sorry. What? Sorry. I'm sorry. you just got so mad at me i was looking for a thing that i had seen on google i know that's fine um i'm just trying to say if there's people around that would harm you that that would actually be an attractor if there's somebody acting weird being weird and then you're also in this murdery residential hotel where there are poor people that live there. Yeah, it's a really bad neighborhood, too. It's not like it's a hotel like down, you know, anywhere in L.A. It's like literally a block from Skid Row. Yes.

It's in the worst part of L.A. that you could be in. Even the walk to the last bookstore is sketchy. Yeah. From that hotel. Yeah, you don't. I mean, everything about the surrounding area is dangerous if you're acting weird and you're kind of setting up those vibes it's just a it's a it's a bad situation so yes she could have like the the mania there's a lot

of people who felt very strongly of like this is exactly what happened but also it's just such a perfect thing of like oh well it's just this girl by herself who suddenly is like not okay that's this the second somebody notices that all they have to do is look out their hotel room peephole and be like oh i'm gonna go see if this girl wants to go take a walk on the roof well one thing i thought was interesting that i found on reddit was that Well, one thing I thought was interesting that I found on Reddit was that in the video, she's wearing someone's shorts. Did you see that? Yeah.

Someone was like, that looks like she's wearing a skirt, but they're clearly like board shorts or like cargo shorts. And they clearly weren't hers or what kind of clothes she wore because she was like a fashion blogger and really into fashion. Oh. And did they find her clothes outside of the tank no the but she was naked in the tank but everything it was in there was with her in the tank so i guess i mean who knows that could have been explained maybe she stole them from the hostel she was at but the shorts that she has on in the video are a guy's shorts yeah so yeah maybe she met someone staying at the hotel also. And fuck.

I know. And there's definitely no drugs in her system. No drugs in her system. And yeah. And, and yeah. And all the, all the things that would explain that, like alcohol drugs. She went to a bar that night. But all the things that people, all the theories of people saying maybe someone drugged her.

That's why she was acting so weird. It doesn't, it's, they're not in her system. But all the things that people, all the theories of people saying maybe someone drugged her. That's why she was acting so weird. It doesn't, they're not in her system. Yeah. They would have clearly done tests for that. And here's the really irritating part. They took a rape kit, but they never processed it. What? Because they just figured what's the point since we, since we know it's, she did it basically.

So we'll kind of never know. know it's it's a little bit the perfect murder in that way if that's what happened because she's in the water nothing there will be no evidence on her body and and did it can they tell exactly how long she was in there was she in there from the night of the video yeah she was in there for like three weeks so you probably can't find a ton of evidence after your body's been in the water that long. No. I'm really sorry. I was looking up this thing that I wanted to tell you while you were telling the story

that there was some tuberculosis drug. Did you see that? Mm-hmm. What is it that is the same as her initials? It's called the Lamb Eliza test. Right, at least. Elisa. E-L-I-S-A.

It's an S, not a Z. That there was an outbreak of tuberculosis on Skid Row. Yeah. That's just a weird coincidence, though. That's like the weirdest coincidence I've ever heard of in my life. That there was a test or something called the called the lamb elisa yeah test it's just her name it's her fucking name yeah what in the fuck is this world there's a couple of other alleyways that i'm not going to go down now because i don't know them well enough yeah but

you can all you have to do is go on to reddit or go on. Um, and people have like talked through all of them that are like, there's about like invisible cloaking and like all this different stuff. Just theories. Do you ever, did you, I watched the video with my face so close to the screen to like try to see any abnormalities or anything weird. Well, but here's what is interesting that the, uh, that the numbers on the tape, whatever that's called, the time code on the tape is distorted. And they don't know if the cops distorted it or the hotel distorted it. But there is a full minute missing in the tape.

What the fuck? People have studied the messed up time code enough to see when it clicks over to another minute. But like like whatever. So they, it's this, the tape itself is really, really weird. You know what?

As another thing about the tape being weird that I thought was really interesting was that she's pressing all the buttons and the, the elevator never leaves or closes the door because she's pressing the elevator hold button, which people have gone there and tested it. It will hold it open for two minutes. Oh. So she presses.

She's on 14. So she presses 14, 10, 7, 4 or whatever. She goes right down the center and elevator hold. Oh. So you can't figure out if she's playing a game, if she's trying to get out of there as quickly as possible. Some people say that's what you're supposed to do if you're afraid somebody's following you because then they won't know what what floor you get they don't know where floor you're on and every it'll open

every time so you'll have every chance of seeing somebody else i've never heard that yeah that is fucked up and the other thing is they sped they they slowed the tape down when they released it to the public it's actually 125 percent slower than it should have been so when you speed it up i don't know it looks creepier when she does like the hand movements and stuff totally i and they don't know if it's just to make get people's attention or to make it look weirder than it is or what maybe like if there's some splicing in it you wouldn't notice it as much if it were slower exactly if there's a minute missing then you wouldn't notice right does it like okay on your do you think that she looks scared or that she's playing a game like in your heart of hearts um well i think i also read

my initial reaction was fear only because she does that thing where she puts her back up against the wall but then there wasn't there's a website who that's like based on um body language oh yeah breaks down where she's very calm her like her body is relaxed and everything she's doing is playful and relaxed and it looks like there's a lot of flirting body language within the movements or that she's playing with a kid like almost like to me it was like she's playing with a little kid yeah and trying to amuse a child it's very childlike although there is one part where they specifically say this is like flirting this is definitely a flirting movement of like she puts her hands up and, but then she like reveals her armpits and it's like a whole thing that's very,

it's like sexual preening is what they call it. And it's the, and she's looking up the hallway. So it's exactly where you can't see the person. Is she looking where the door to the water tower is or is she looking the other way? I wonder, I don't know.

That would be good to, like, go and stand there and look. But I think in the Chinese guys, I mean, it literally is all in Chinese. I have no idea what he's actually saying. But when he does it, he just walks you up, out the elevator and up. So it looks like there's another, you have to walk up more stairs to get up to that exit. There's like a floor that the elevator doesn't go up to. Right. Yeah, it's not like right there.

I mean, those places are never locked and they never have fucking alarms. To me, I think ultimately there is a good theory with the messed up videotape is so overt and it's so weird. And like, why would you, why is it edited? Why is it slowed down what's happening why can't we see what's in that other minute they they tacked on just the elevator opening and closing at the end to nothing so they left on footage that no one needs at all but then

they took out a minute in the middle that doesn't make sense do you think that's one of those things that they do or it's like they take something out that only the person involved would know in case there's ever any, any person comes forward with information and they can be like, well, I mean, maybe she threw something or maybe she like, maybe,

you know, she did an extra thing that only the person she was doing it to or with would know. Maybe, but then why, why not just use 15 seconds? Like why? Yeah.

It's, it's, it's being sold or presented as if it's continuous. And that's what's weird. Oh, right. Like something else, something,

the thing is going to happen. Yes. And to me, it just, it adds up to, or to me, it points a finger. I believe it could have been a manic episode

where she just found herself up there, and that's definitely possible, but it doesn't seem that probable. To me it seems probable that there's another person involved and that that person works at the hotel. So he doesn't have to be around her at any point during the day, but he sees her at that one point in night and does something and then puts her body where no one would find it.

Okay. Yeah. Possibly. I get it. Or lures her in there. Was she able to get out on her own when she got in there? Maybe lured her in there and then she couldn't get out. So she did drown technically.

But it's foul play. Well, but it's like he would like he would already be in it you mean no or have been like let's go swimming in here oh like it was his idea yeah yes possibly but then why would she throw all her stuff in there oh god like why wouldn't if it's like a skinny dipping thing just leave it so all of her shit was just in there in her in there with her yeah i don't know maybe he threw it in after her if i can close the door and later could have been that and also could have been if it was her idea by herself to go in because she wanted to be in water when she's in

there it's hard to tread water with right take your clothes off yeah i just saw this thing about this woman I think it was in Japan where she fucking got locked in an elevator for 30 days and starved to death no yeah like they went away on a Christmas vacation or whatever the fuck and they were supposed to check the elevators and make sure no one was in there and they didn't and like there was a woman fucking

like that's the thought of being in a water tank oh yeah i wish i'd again right now i just kill myself do you think all the electricity was off i think they like you know when you turn it off you turn off the elevator shafts to stop working so she was just in a black box for 30 days who knows when she died but when you die of starvation and so probably oh that's pretty quick actually is it like seven days yeah that's a fucking long time it's a long that's a fucking incredible story it's uh i want to know what happened i do too would you rather know jean benet or lisa lamb jean benet would you rather know black dahlia or Lisa Lam. Jean Benet. Yeah, me too.

Also, Black Dahlia, I feel like it's going to be disappointing because back then you could kill people much easier. Yeah. Like, and also I think if this, if Elisa's story is that it was just this manic episode and she just. What a bummer. Lost her shit. It's just the total tragedy. Yeah. And I'm only in it for the like, what? Yeah. manic episode and she just what a bummer lost her shit it's just the total tragedy yeah yeah and i'm only in it for the like what yeah factor i'm in it for the like well that could never

happen to me yeah and if it's like someone killed her then you're like well i can avoid that but if it's like oh she just fucking lost lost it and like thought it'd be fun to go like i i would think that yeah before of course i've gone swimming in stupid places before you want you want to go up high you're like oh i want to see the city i'm like i'm alone in this big city and this is like my first time away from my family she's also at the really good right page for um for uh what's it called the crazy people schizophrenia yes yes that's right that's like around that age so she might have been having some some symptoms to begin with yeah i mean when i first saw that i was like bath salts totally she ate bath salts oh yeah she got bath salts on skid row and fucking jumped in the tank

but i doubt it so bad it's so i mean a lot of people on reddit were just talking about how carefully you have to be when you have mood stabilizers and and like antidepressants and i didn't know that i'm on both of those yeah i didn't know that yeah you have to be careful well just you have to do exactly what the doctor says okay i don't do that should we read some uh favorite oh you have a recording oh that's right i asked my friend karen anderson who does um doug loves food the d the Doug Benson food podcast. She's the co-host, stand-up comedian, writer, friend to all. And I asked her.

We grew up very close to each other. Oh, really? She grew up in Novato, which is the town next to Petaluma. Man, you guys are ripe for fucking crimes. Yes. And apparently she got a good one, so she left me a message today. And you haven't heard it either yet. I have not.

I heard the first five seconds to make sure it recorded. Let's see. So here it is. Hi. Oh, Karen. This is Karen. I'm here to tell you about a murder that took place. It took place in 1980 in Novato, California.

Sleepy little town. You might have heard of it since it's the next town over from your house. It was a terrible thing that had happened. My sister's friend had moved to Novato with her stepdad, you know, when the stepdad's in the picture, in a murder situation. I think you know who did it. and a murder situation. I think you know who did it.

Anyway, her and her sister and her mom, they moved to Novato, and they were there for two years, and my sister got to know this girl. And the dad and the mom got in a big fight, and I guess she said she was going to take the kids away for a while or something. And he ended up keeping them hostage in their house for five hours and, you know, threatened to kill everybody. But finally, I don't know what happened to set him off, but the mom, he shot at the mom two times. She got away. She ran away out the back door. And then he went up the stairs to the girl's bedroom and the older girl was holding the, the littler girl. I think

they were 14 and 10 holding the younger one. And the stepdad killed the, the shot the older one in the back of the head a couple of times. And then I don't know if he tried to shoot the older one in the back of the head a couple times. And then I don't know if he tried to shoot the little one. And then he shot himself on the stairs. They found him on the stairs. And the older one died, my sister's friend. Jesus. And then the little one survived and the mom survived.

It's from what I remember. And anyway, I hope that makes your day all right oh wow oh oh man that 10 year old is just fucked that that's a that is a horror movie that's like the stepdad horror movie there's so many thoughts that go through my head mostly for the survivors and the mom's guilt for running i mean guilt what was she supposed to do like she ran to go get help and also she'd been shot at like that's a fight or flight that's reptilian brain yeah like he was clearly going to kill her he just she got lucky but it's like, why did you leave your kids?

And it's like, Oh, Oh my God. Well, and also they're upstairs. She can't get past totally. She would have been killed trying. And it's like,

what is she going to run up there and lead him to chase after her into the kids rooms? Maybe she was like, if, if I run out of here, he'll come after me and leave the kids alone. Yeah, probably. I mean,

or who, I don't think anything. You're in shock. You don't even know what you're doing. Horrible. How that, I run out of here he'll come after me and leave the kids alone yeah probably I mean or who you don't think anything you're in shock you don't even know what you're doing horrible how that breaks my heart that the big sister was like trying to protect the little one I know yeah my first thought is like just kill me too like I would just want to be killed too yeah that's awful well also there is that thing too then people survive things like that i have to say the bad part of me is like oh he killed himself in the stairs good thank god oh for sure good that's what he should have done he should have

done it first because then that fucking 10 year old would be going to um parole hearings for the rest of her life making sure he didn't get out and always be a little bit terrified that he was going to escape or fucking get out or you know yeah him being dead is the best outcome of this story yeah for sure which it's like do you believe in the death penalty that's such a hard thing to say but i believe in you fucking killing yourself yeah you you do it yourself yeah although then it's like he escapes uh any kind of punishment i know but god i know the choices i know it turns out life is hard it's difficult and and i think the things that fascinates me is like yeah that was

one town over from where i grew up crazy i've never heard that story before it's insane i had no idea that that even happened the fact that that her she was friends with the it's friends i know it's just like it's you're a step away from it totally like what if you had spent the night that night yeah exactly what if had spent the night that night? Yeah, exactly. What if she spent the night at your house that night? Yeah. Or what if,

and then I think of like, what if those things have happened where it's like, you just will never know that like you almost died that night. But if you hadn't spent the night at this person's house, you didn't. It's kind of like, there's,

it has a metal detector feel to it of like, what's underneath? What is possible? What's there that I don't know is there yeah that's must be why we love metal detectors i wonder if that's a normal thing for people who love true crime is being in a metal detecting probably right right investigative investigations it's almost i it's like um you know in minority report where it's like the futuristic idea like you can know something's going to happen.

Yeah. If you can know that you just missed some crazy shit happening to you. Would you want to know? I don't think it'd be good for you. No, I don't think so either. But at the same time, I think about, that's all I think about is, uh, is what's going to happen. What did I, what did i what did

i miss what how do i avoid this how do i avoid that so i think about it all the time anyways yeah it'd be nice to be like to have some like yeah yeah you're right so you can be like okay good this is what if you were so right all the time that you're just like geez cars just keep crashing through fucking windows while i'm sitting next to them. Do you want to, let's read, like, maybe we'll both read one person's hometown. You mean before I die? Before you die. Of my own disease? Yeah.

So we always have you guys either email us at MyFavoriteMurder at Gmail. On the Facebook group, we have a Twitter, MyFaveMurder. And you tell us your hometown murders, which we love. But this time, we said tell us your favorite unsolved murder. Do you like that better? So you want to do one hometown and I'll do one unsolved that's not hometown? Or should I look for a... I think this one that I have is unsolved.

But I think that's just by chance. Okay. I think the one I have is just her favorite murder that is unsolved okay i think that's just by chance okay i think the one i have is just her favorite murder that's unsolved okay you want to go you want me to go you go okay so um this girl's name is lauren we also told you guys we would stop saying your full names sorry sorry i didn't i did not think about that at all i'm like doesn't everyone want to be fucking loud and famous and shit? For real?

Yeah. Just because we're fame whores doesn't mean everyone else is. People are like, could I have a little bit of privacy? Yeah. We talked about your stalker and then we, okay. I like though that a lot of people have adjusted in like in it.

They're, they're signing it like just with their last initial where it's like, Oh, thank you. You're helping me. Sorry guys. We won't do that again. Yeah,

we won't. So Lauren S she says, the one that gets me is the boy in the box oh yes in 1957 a boy believed to be at five years about five years old was found on the side of the road wrapped in a blanket inside of a bassinet box having been killed by blunt force trauma worst way to go he was freshly bathed fingernails clipped and his hair was crudely cut. He had old medical-related scars in addition to fresh bruising and signs of past trauma. He appeared to be malnourished. No one had ever come forward to claim him or with any plausible explanation of who he may have been.

He is also known as America's unknown child. That's a fucked up sad shit. No, didn't you tell me i thought we talked about it on here that they found dna evidence to figure out who he was did i do that when we were it was like a beginning it was at the beginning of the show update right so i just saw this one because i was looking up unsolved murders and he came up there was illustrations of what he looked like when he was found in that box he was either in a foster situation it was in chicago right it was in i thought it was baltimore okay or philadelphia okay somewhere we can get just lost

in the system but also two different people found him and didn't report it before the final person did. The fuck, you guys? I think that the like a hunter found it and then didn't say anything and then the second person waited a full day. Oh my god. The thing about him being found in a bassinet box is that that makes me think either at a home for children

or a foster, like crowded foster house. Crowded. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Television. Hey, Karen in Georgia. or a foster yeah like crowded foster house crowded foster yeah like yeah yes television hey karen in georgia first of all i love your show i love true crime and i wish i had friends like you to talk about it with well now you do this is from alex h uh so okay so this is a secondhand story my mom told me recently she grew up in the rochester spencerport new york area and she lived there when the three alphabet murders happened just a little background info in case you weren't familiar three young girls were raped and strangled in rochester new york

and they all had double initials and their bodies were all left in towns that started with the same letter as their first and last names what three girls are carmen cologne 10 disappeared november 16 1971 she was found two days later in riga new york near churchville 12 12 miles from where she was last seen michelle mayenza 11 disappeared november 26 1973 she was found two days later in macedon new york 15 miles from rochester And Wanda Walkowitz, 11, disappeared April 2nd, 1973. She was found the next day at a rest area off of State Route 104 in Webster, New York, seven miles from Rochester. These cases were also connected to another set of double initial murders in California.

One of the victims there was also named Carmen Colon. I don't know much about these in parentheses. Same of the victims there was also named Carmen Colon. I don't know much about these in parentheses. Same name. Yeah. There were a few suspects over the years, including Kenneth Bianchi, who was ice cream vendor in Rochester and who later became one of the two hillside stranglers. Um, another suspect was Carmen Colon's uncle. My mom was in third grade at Holy Redeemer Catholic school when she, when the first murder in New York happened in 1971. And mom was in third grade at Holy Redeemer Catholic School when the first murder in New York happened in 1971 and she was in the same class as the New York

Carmen Colon's younger sister, Angela. And she had been at Carmen and Angela's house just a couple weeks before the murder for a birthday party. Even if you don't read this on the show, you should totally talk about it on your show because it is some really freaky shit you're exactly right alex that is nuts i would karen go change your fucking name karen kill gareth would

have been later days how many people changed their name in rochester around that time do you think that had fucking double little girls with double a letter. Because that meant research. That guy was, that was like, what, do you work at a school? Did he work at a, yeah, maybe he was like, worked at a school. And, you know, the weird thing is the towns that he left them in. Yes. That's some fucking OCD shit. It's weird.

And it's, you know what, that is, that is the kind I'm the most interested in. Is that tricky, hooked in, like, that is that is the kind i'm the most interested in is that tricky hooked in like that's that seven oh kind of stuff where there's theories and whole there's whole storylines going on that no one even understands or knows about well that's what you want them murders to have because then it is so much more interesting than there's just some fucking creepy gross dude doing this and so it's like okay here's we just need to solve this and it's a really smart person doing all these things i mean it sounds it sounds like an obsessive thing that maybe the person doing it doesn't even want to be doing it but feels like

a compulsion to do it yeah you know like it's like you know how ocd people are it's like you're you're setting things right by doing these things over and over and you're like or you know how OCD people are it's like you're setting things right by doing these things over and over and you're like or you know how sometimes it turns out where it's like their sibling who was who died had double the double letters you know what I mean there's some weird they're acting

out something else that had already happened their mom was abusive and had double letters or double letters don... Double letters. Don't do it. It's so random. It's so random. And yet very specific.

I mean, what if it is? It sounds... I mean, if there was a serial killer, a now known serial killer living in that time, in that area at that time, I mean, it's probably him. Bianchi. Is it Bianchi? I mean, that's a very strange thing that that would happen there although he didn't they did like teenage girls and older yeah but maybe these are little kids separately

they did that maybe it was the other one's inclination oh right it was anton anthony buono's preference to do the older ladies he went along with it but like oh guys guys this has been heavy we really want you know what i want more than anything is not to have any more topics to cover on this podcast. Like, I just want this to turn into like a, we start talking about like tea. Let's never do that. Because we run out of murder to talk about. You know what I mean?

Like, they just stop murdering. Have you ever had Moroccan mint? Yeah. Oh, it's delicious. It's great to sip while crime rates go down. Crime rates plummet. And the world turns perfect around us i mean it's a little overpopulated i'll give you that thank you president trump yeah you've really solved all our problems by locking people up before they can murder people just getting rid of everybody yay this was a long one but i think it's been chock full of fun stuff you probably snip some stuff

out in the middle yeah where can we find everyone we can find them on our twitter oh yes on twitter on there's a facebook group if you go there you have to ask to join it so don't lose faith you just have to what do they do click something yeah just say approve and then they approve them and that's just so you can be you can talk with him with impunity. Oh, right. And you know, it's a private group because we don't want your sister to see that you're in a group called my favorite murder.

Oh, but yeah, but there's nothing to do. You just have to ask to be, you'll be let in immediately. Uh, yeah. And then there's the Twitter and then there's my favorite murder at Gmail to

send us your hometown murders, which we love. We love, um, I'll be, I'll get better so that um i'm not dying of emphysema the next time we record it's sexy emphysema super sexy uh thanks for listening guys thanks everybody don't go in the water tank bye