My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 74 - Jews Vs. Catholics

Episode Date: June 22, 2017

On this week's episode, Karen and Georgia cover the Carbon Copy Murders and the Annecy Shootings.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We at Wondery live, breathe and downright obsess over true crime and now we're launching the ultimate true crime fan experience, Exhibit C. Join now by following Wondery, Exhibit C on Facebook and listen to true crime on Wondery and Amazon Music, Exhibit C. It's truly criminal. Molly, you a danger girl. Stay sexy. Talking at murder. Welcome to my favorite murder. To my favorite murder. Your favorite murder podcast. Oh, I regret saying that. Leave it in. Okay.

Sit in it. I don't know if I've ever said this, but fuck the haters. I feel like this is a new idea. I know. And do you mean the social media haters? Everyone. Just any haters. Any haters. They're going to hate. They're going to hell. They're going to hell. That's what you're going to say. Yeah, I believe in hell now. New update on the podcast. Oh neat. You're Catholic now. Now I'm Catholic. Cool. Just like that. How's it been? Hard. Yeah. Right? It sucks. I'm suddenly Velcro to everything I've ever done in my life.

You feel guilty for things other people have done. I shouldn't have. I shouldn't have let them do that, even though I didn't know them. When I was a child. Yes. I used to think about how disappointed Jesus was in me and get so sad. And then I'd just be like, how am I, I can never make good on this. No. How am I going to make good on this? What the fuck? How the fuck? Here's how I'll make good on it. I'll go into a dark room and talk to a man behind a screen

about the specifics of what makes me a bad person. I'm eight. He sounds legit. He sounds like a good guy who's helping people. The whole system seems really like a humanitarian kind of. They're trying on you people, but you guys just keep failing them. Yeah. These guys behind the screen. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, what am I here for? You should come in when we can be like, I'm good. Yeah.

But you just keep bringing, stealing shit from your sister. If you want it. Am I right? Did you do that ever? Impure thoughts. Oh yeah. Stealing from my sister, stealing from my, my dad always had a coin jar in the closet. How are you, he put it in there so you could be a child. Right.

And steal from it. That's kind of what they're for. But I would actually take it to coin start and change it in for $80 and then, no. Holy shit. No, really. I stole from my sister, like those stupid little like children's lockers that they would have. Oh yeah. Like, come on, I would open it and I would steal her money and I would go across the street and buy

Reese's pieces and a squeeze it and I've never felt guilty about it one day in my life. Oh, that's the glory of Judaism. I'm giving it an Italian. Oh, the Italian Jews are the best ones. Yeah. I don't know a lot of them. Food's great. No, they don't exist.

I was like, whoa, is that a thing? We get all of the Italians. Yeah. They're Catholic. A lot of Italian food though. I mean, speaking, I love the mustache. Sorry, go ahead. No, you go.

That's all it was. Speaking of the religion, I have something to read to you. Okay. Okay. Remember last week I did a like, I did an occult killing. I do. Satan cult kind of thing. It was intense.

Yeah. Thank you. And so I, I mean, that's what you want in this podcast is like, if you could, if you could like describe your story in one word, like it should be intense. Yeah. Right. That's for sure.

All right. So I mentioned that it was a Satanist thing and at some point I was just like, I just want to say that Satanism isn't like that and then moved on because I don't know how to explain. Right. And so someone explained it. Oh, no. Someone sent an email to us and it said, hey Karen and Georgia, I'd like to think that I'm a,

that I'm a pretty chill plus I'm a Satanist. Sweet. Your last episode cracked me up. So I thought I'd take the opportunity to tell you a little bit about modern Satanism. Skippers, don't skip. Skip. This is important. Skippers, you need this the most.

Maybe you'll fucking learn something. Maybe you'll stop being of the devil. There are all kinds of Satanists. The ones that believe in worship, the ones that believe and worship the actual devil are not what you might call mainstream Satanism. There's more common Satanists. More commonly, you'll find people who belong to the church of Satan or the Satanic temple.

I remember the Satanic temple and also a local group called Satanic San Francisco. Like good morning. That's where Satanic San Francisco. Here's the local do's. That's where I lived when I lived in San Francisco. Hey, what neighborhood did you live in? This is fucking hell. Oh my God.

I only have $11 and I have to take the bus to two different jobs. What bus did you take? I took the six six six. Come on. The one that went down Lincoln, I think? It's not 22? The one that basically the one that went diagonally across town. Not the fun Satanic one.

No way. The one that smelled like feet. You gotta think the Satanic bus smells like feet a little bit too though. Or candles. Or candles. Okay, go ahead. I remember the Satanic temple, the Satanic San Francisco. Our version of Satanism is what you might call an atheistic religion.

Most of us do not believe in God nor by extension the devil. What we do believe in is a personal autonomy, equal rights, and the separation of church and state. We've just co-opted the imagery created by mainstream mostly Christian religions to represent our opposition to some of the more oppressive beliefs. So when some government office wants to put up a Ten Commandment statue on public land, we'll be there to ask for our own Baphomet statue. Baphomet?

Baphomet statue. Thank you. After all, the government can't advocate for any one religion. Thanks First Amendment, so they either have to represent all religions fairly or be hands off with all religions. The Satanic temple also has a strong feminist view, which also, which was what attracted me to it in the first place. Our emphasis on personal freedom also includes freedom over our bodies,

meaning a woman's right to choose is sacrosanct. They have fun with their religion. They have potlucks. They have screenings of movies like Rosemary's Babies. They have letter writing campaigns where they curse the Trump's cabinet. We might not believe in curses, but we wanted to grab the attention of those who do, and even a book club. Right now, we're reading a book about the Satanic Panic in the 1990s,

which sounds fucking awesome. So it's obvious why most of our members are also murderinos. Thank you for a wonderful show that is funny and fascinating. Stay sexy, don't get murdered, and something safe. Something safe. St. Thomas. Probably hail or something. Yeah.

Hail Satan. I think something like that. Simone. That's awesome. Yeah. Simone, thank you for providing information. But I think that's like such a clear in the, in the Satanic Panic days, when the Church of Satan,

which up being from the San Francisco Bay Area and the Anton LaVe and the Church of Satan had a real like, it had a real, it was scary and people would talk about it in these very serious, scary terms. And it, like that letter makes me so happy because really it's a political group. Yeah. And what they're saying is like, this country was founded on the separation of church and state for a very important reason, because when the government becomes,

just chooses a religion that they're going to represent and not others, that means the people who aren't in that religious group are going to be oppressed. Right. And so it's, it's actually kind of bad ass-y. Yeah. I mean, everything about that is super bad ass-y. But I mean, and at the same time, I only can think of my Aunt Mary, the nun who would be like, I don't know if I want you to be saying that you love the Church of Satan.

No, she wouldn't be saying that. She'd be saying Latin prayers over your soul. But no, but she actually might be going, I can see their point because she's the most fair, lovely person ever. But when I said, the Satanists are actually cool. That's what I meant. Yeah. Last week.

I love that. I couldn't put it into words. They're kind of humanists that are being anarch, aren't anarchists. And they're using, I mean, it's almost like they're really great PR people. Yeah. Good for them. So I'm happy that that got sent because I think it was necessary. Also, I've heard on last podcast on the left, Henry and Marcus both talking about,

I don't think Ben Kessels is a Satanist, but the- Let's spread the rumor because he's running for like counsel in Brooklyn. Oh, that's right. Let's just have you looked into a Satanist path. They talk about that all the time and that's, Henry has talked a lot about that word. It's really about personhood and asserting yourself so that you don't live under this thing of, oh, someone somewhere is going to judge me. And someone made it, some man who was in charge made up a God and a religion so that

people would fall in line. And now you feel guilty, Karen, for, or you did at eight years old for doing stupid shit that has nothing to do with- Still do. Oh, all day, all day, every day. Things I can't even figure out. It's fun. Isn't it to be just damaged from your childhood?

I mean, it really is. It really makes you an interesting person. I think it gives me depth. And I think it also, there's a certain gente quo about me. Do you have any corrections? That was my corrections corner. Yes. I have a couple.

Let's see. Well, these are the tweets we've gotten of like, this is now mirror corrections corner where people are giving us the corrections and we're just reading them out. So Boone's Farm was the wine you were trying to think of. I was going to say, mine was that if you had guessed Arbor Mixed, that's fine. But what I actually remember, but what I actually, like I feel like that's a fair one that people were like, is it Arbor Miss? I mean, I got this on all platforms, all social media platforms.

You got a telegram at the front door. Is the wine Arbor Missed? Yeah, Elvis took a shit and it just said Arbor Missed and it was shit. It was really weird. But yes, if you guessed Boone's Farm, you are correct of the weird wine. I couldn't remember. And so many people wrote like, I was screaming Boone's Farm when you said, I bet people are screaming whatever the name is.

Yeah. And it's true. Yeah, that one really had a ripple effect. So many, because everyone has been hungover in their lives off Boone's Farm. Yes, because the sugar content is like 50% and it's some horrible thing. Well, what do you expect me to get? Purple wine. Well, and also if you drank purple wine when you were a teen,

how are you supposed to remember anything at this point? Sure. So we're, everything's fine. Okay, go on. Maragha is the city that is in the hills near Oakland and near Berkeley and blah, blah, blah that Adrienne actually just texted me because she just listened to that episode. And she was like, the text I just got like right before I pulled up here was, dude, are you serious? It's Maragha.

And I was like, okay, because I still haven't, I still haven't heard of it. Yes, but I absolutely know it. And I think we probably played them in softball or something in high school. But like out of context, no, it just made me realize I've lived in LA longer than I lived in Paloma. Oh, congratulations. I don't think so. Don't you think so? I think so.

I mean, I mean, when I did the arson inspector, who was the arsonist secretly, John Orr, a couple of weeks ago, the TV set he burned down that everyone sent. Did you ever get any of these messages? It was the Walton set. Oh, I was thinking of a television that like you have in here, a television set that you have in your living room. And I'm like, I don't remember that. Was I just tuned out?

I think it was the, it was at the very end of the case that was the last thing he burned. An actual TV show set. Yeah, the exterior pretending that we're at the Walton's house. What's the Walton's? I don't remember that one. It was the old one. It was like the whole family. They lived in the mountains in probably West Virginia or something like that.

And there was like the grandma and the dad and the mom and the fucking like six kids. Good night, John Boy. Good night, Mary Ellen. Oh, that's them. Okay. That's the Walton's. All right. Well, sex to be them.

Yeah, they're hopefully no one was inside the Walton's house when it burned. No. Then the other one was there's two now. So a bunch of people thought, uh, I had said last week what had happened was, um, and a lot of people thought I was referencing the podcast, Another Round, which is Tracy Clayton's podcast, who I am. I've never met her in real life, but I claim to be friends with her because we've talked. We've talked on Twitter.

Friends is loose, especially. Yeah. I mean, she, I think she'd pick me up at the airport if I needed to. Yeah, I get that. That's a lot of people I haven't really quote met, but they're my friends. But we kind of know each other. And so, um, she, I guess that's something she says on her podcast, but I, it's, it's, I'm quoting the first, that's what the Fresh Prince of Bel Air would say when he was trying to make an excuse

for something. What was what? What happened? What his uncle would like confront him on something and be like, well, what happened was, but I hedged it a little bit because it sounded like I'm a white girl doing a black voice. And I was like, in this day and age, let's not be that person. We don't want to know what's it called culturally appropriate. That's right.

I'm so overly afraid of culturally appropriating that like, I won't wear my like, I have this like cute, like Chinese style dress. That's like vintage China doll dress that I just won't wear anymore because I'm like, this isn't, this isn't okay. This is rude. This is like someone else's culture. Do you mean one of those ones that's kind of diagonally at the top and it's like. Snaps at the neck.

Those are, I don't know about that. I just don't want, I'm so scared now. Well, fine. I'm good. That's better that, right? I mean, it doesn't look great on me either. So whatever. It's not a good cut.

Anyhow. But I love Chinese people, so I don't want to be mean. But full props to another round and those women who are hilarious and our friends, whatever. Now this is the last one and this is the one that we get the most. People think, some people think that we invented high or by, but then oftentimes people ask, are you quoting Alaska from RuPaul's Drag Race? I actually am quoting my friends, Hailey Schaefer, Tenille Cobb and Hannah Pinter, who were APs with me on like a bunch of TV shows I've worked on.

And we, when we were at our unhappiest, I would like walk up. I was oftentimes their boss and I would have to go up and be like, can you guys get me a thing? But to kind of, sometimes it was either to cut the tension of like, I have to now tell you what to do or we hated, at one job, we hated the people around us so much that we did it as allowed. So I would walk up to ask them for something which should have been almost a silent transaction. And instead I'd go, hi. And then go, hi. And we would do it as obnoxiously as possible.

So I feel like, and I feel like, and I can't remember life for this podcast, but I'm pretty sure that like, that was, hi was in all my emails. Like when I wanted to be like, hi, I have to ask you for something. Yeah. I would write H-I-I-I-Y-Y-Y-E, you know, like, I just think it's a thing that people do, but we have always mentioned that that is something that is like a coined phrase on drag race. Alaska made it popular. It was like a thing that people are copying.

But when at the last time I saw Hannah and Hailey and to Neil, I was like, where did, are you guys doing it because Alaska did it on drag race? And they're all like, I don't know. I just started doing it at some point. Nobody knew our source. That's the same thing for me. And recently we were talking about the phrase, coochie twinge, just like one of my, like when you're just like, oh God, no, it's like that's getting a coochie twinge.

And like, you were like, well, someone had to have said that first. And I'm like, I don't fucking think so. Like I just remember. Did you look it up? No, but I just remember, of course I didn't look it up. That's work. But I just remember saying it all the time with friends and like it being the best description. And the first time I heard it was from a friend.

It wasn't like, so man, everything is fucking appropriated. Everything's appropriated. Nothing belongs to anyone. You're a Chinese dress. So for a sex day, sex day, don't get murdered. That's ours. Don't fucking steal it. Yeah, we made that up. Listen, for sure.

Here comes the lawsuit. It actually turns out in 1947, Dorothy Parker said, no, no, the trademark is then it's expired. Sorry. That was all for me. I just thought I'd update all of those. No, it's great. Oh, we have a present to give.

Oh, that's right. On the air present. Listen, look, it's been five months. Steven, Ray Morris has been working for us on the good faith that someday we will pay him. Someday. Not even some like that's not even the thing he's been waiting for. The someday is that Karen and Georgia as human beings will get our shit together enough to set up a fucking payroll as like a regular business, which is like

so daunting to both of us in a way that's like, I don't know how to adult. No, we don't. That's why we fucking hired Steven. That's right. You're supposed to be the adult Steven, but then we have to do the work. Yeah. So we brought your walking papers in the form of a check that I feel kind of bad because, man, the government took out so much of it.

Hey, that's like so big. It's so big. It's huge. Let him have it. Here you go. Oh my gosh. I'm like done, done, done, done. And Elvis rips it up.

Elvis. Elvis rip it up. Steven, look at it. You want your on camera reaction. Yeah, but only disappointed. Oh, he's like, I can't pay rent this month. Oh my gosh. Oh, I can totally pay rent this month.

Okay. Yay. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you. Thank you for paying you the money that we promised you in January that you would do. You're welcome. Oh my gosh. Sorry.

I'm like totally read right now. Props to one. And this check is so heavy. Steve at ADP, I want to say, who's our payroll company. Mine I got. First of all, when I emailed him, he was like, I can help you with anything you need, blah, blah, blah, blah. Stay sexy.

Don't get murdered. So he was just like, oh, this is my friend. So the whole time he walked me through everything, he was so patient and cool because I was like, I don't know how I'm fucking doing. Yeah. They were the, the company was so great. I'm so happy we went through them. I mean, his name is Steve.

So. And his name is Steve. We're golden. Yeah. Does he have a mustache? Probably. He does now. What if he has like, he's the exact opposite of you.

He has like his hair parts on the other side. And he has a weird Abraham or like, what do you call it? Like an Amish beard on the bottom instead of a mustache on the top. We're going to become best friends. Or what if it's actually Steven? He has to get a job at ADP because we're not fucking paying him enough. And he was just like, no, it's me. Let me show you exactly how to do this word for word.

I'll do everything. Well, congratulations. Congratulations. Six months. We'll see you again with a paycheck. No, it's Monday now. It's Monday now. Yay.

Yay. You're on, you're on schedule to be employed like a normal person. You're on the take. It's very exciting that you are a part of our team, Steven. You really help us so much and save us so much pain, so much pain. And I love that the people in this little group are like people we care about, this little like, this little group of Steven and Vince. Yes.

No, I mean, this is my favorite thing to do in the world. Yay. More than the percast. You have to say yes. Yes. Yay. Your co-host is like, fuck you. I'm going to just put a version where she only hears where it's just the opposite.

Yeah. No. Steven, edit yourself out. Yeah. Get a clean no out in there. Cool. Anything else? A lot of murders happening in the world.

Oh my god. I don't know what to talk about them. So much heavy shit. Yeah. I got real depressed yesterday. Like, we were like, it was like five and we had decided not to record them up to that line. So I was like, I have the night free and Vince was like, do you want to go out to eat? And I'm like, of course, that's my dream.

But then I was just like, I don't want to go anywhere. And I realized it was because I had just been reading the news and I was so depressed. Yeah. It's only bad news now. Oh my god. And it's one thing after the other. It's just every, from every direction, you know, it's terrible, terrible news. But I will say this, I feel like people are making an effort to, if they are not the enemy,

they are making an effort to make sure you know they're a friend. I feel like that's happening more and more these days. I love that. I feel like it's a thing to keep your eye out for because it's important because if you focus, the news is only going to tell you about stuff. It's how they make their money. Yeah. They do not make money with their, this dog is best friends of the goat.

Nobody stays around for that story. Yeah. They only stay around to either have their fears confirmed or, you know, learn a new fear. That's just what the news is. Yeah. So you have to tune out and you have to. And you have to, you know, go to soup plantation. I did not expect this was so heartfelt and then something got real.

I always ruin it. I always ruin it. No, that was beautiful. It does seem, you know, particularly lately, it does seem like all the news is like, here's a, here's a bunch of good people where bad people did things to them. It's like, there's just like innocent people who keep getting bad stuff done to them by people who, and I can't wrap my head around it or bad people, you know, which is so hard to understand.

And it's, it's the abuse of power. It's, yeah, there's a lot of abuse of power right now that what is happening now is we're in a transitional phase where power is being taken back or taken away and it seems slow and it seems like maybe it won't change, but it will change and it is changing and you have to believe it's changing so that you can continue trying. Cause that's the most important thing is, is, you know, it feels like sometimes the setup is they're trying to get people to quit. They're trying to get people to turn against each other.

And the other day, like there's a million we could talk about the police shootings. We could talk about fucking Bill Cosby. We could talk about politics of all kinds. We could, whatever, um, attacks on Muslim children, I mean, like so fucked. But the other day, somebody just posted the picture of hundreds of people in London walking with flowers to go put them down where at the, at the most recent place where a Muslim was attacked, the mosque, uh, where they drew the guy drove into the, drove the van. And what, what I think people are starting to understand is when things like that happen,

everybody else needs to stand up and show the world. No, this is not what we want. Like it's the, uh, just being, um, being quiet isn't working anymore. Like people have to make a stand and show that there is another force working. And we were talking about all of this at work. And at one point I just said, I'd like to remind everybody about the women's march because that was millions of men and women, but mostly women in their hats, all around the world standing up and going, uh, uh, and that's, you know, that's,

just try to remember. Yeah. I would like to keep that attitude of positivity. And then if you can't just make sure that you're not intaking that you're balanced out. It's like the turn off the news and turn on Bob's burgers or something else that's going to make you happy. Baskets, which is like depressing, but like it's so good. I started binge watching it last night in a way that was like, oh, I'm going to be gone.

I'll do this all weekend. Yeah. Period. It's so good. It's so good. And you're right on it. I know. You're on this, you're right on the second season.

It was when we start, right? I can't wait to watch your episode. Thanks. We were in a meeting recently and someone found out that you had written this certain, they were talking about this certain episode and they found out that you write it. They almost started crying. It was like, I'm so proud of you. It was so cool.

Thank you. Thank you. It's exciting. It's the one thing that is worth having two jobs for, which is. Yeah. If it was any other show, I'd be like, what the fuck, Karen? You don't need this. And it's like, why are you writing on Family Feud?

I love those questions because there's so many questions. I take the polls. I'm the one that goes out in the streets of Las Vegas. You're the man on the street. That's right. It's the biggest of all places. When it's really hot, I like to go out into the street and ask people, what's the weirdest place?

Well, it's thinking of positivity. Should we talk about murder? Yeah. Let's keep it on an up note. Yeah. I think you're first. I think I am. And I think I was supposed to be last week.

Did you hear about that? Oh, that was my correction. Stephen, give me that check back. Yeah. Give me that fucking check back right now. We're ripping this up in front of your face. Oh, this is chewing it up. Thank you.

Oh, oh, we have to mention, if you are not a skipper and you did hear the, you went to listen to the podcast and in the beginning, you were like, okay, this is the theme song. I was listening to it every week, and then it wasn't the theme song, and it was some fucking magic moment. That's right. So if you're a skipper, go back and listen again, because the theme song this week of My Favorite Murder is an amazing,

it's George's early rave days. Meets Karen Song. Meets Forensic Files Meets My Song. It's a remix of the My Favorite Murder theme, which is amazing, and it's written by Yoji's. That's correct. So if you go on, what's the channel that they go on? Oh, Soundcloud.

Steve World's Women. Do you go on Soundcloud? It's Y-O-G-Z, right? Now, what's this channel that the children put their music onto? Now, Stephen. This is, what was the, oh, this is Satanic San Francisco. Stephen, now tell us what's this thing going? Stephen's our tech whiz.

This brand new theme song, he works by Yoji's. Yoji's. Y-O-G-Z on Soundcloud. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you so much. Dude, I lost my mind when I heard it. We left so hard. It's so brilliantly done.

Thank you. What an honor. I just don't even remember when I said that thing about Ghost in the middle of, you know, Molly. Which I just love. She ever hears what you said and you're like, oh my god, that's, I'd like that girl. Yeah.

You'll be yourself. Yes, you should. She's great. She's really great. See, we didn't have a guilt and Catholicism and Judaism. We had, you're fucking great and Judaism. You're so cool. Really?

There's guilt, but no, we dig ourselves. We love hearing ourselves talk. We're great. Now, I'd just like to quickly go back to Stephen's correction corner. I felt like he was really about to spill it. Oh, go Stephen. No, I mean, I just, I got excited and I was like,

Georgia's first. And I was like, nope. That was on me this week. It's a rare mistake from Stephen Rainbow. It almost never happens. It really doesn't. Unless we just don't know. I've been flogging myself since speaking.

Just like DaVinci Code style. We might need to use one of the three like tools that people have given us at live shows to check when it's our turn. Oh, yeah. The, um, there's ones like an abacus. One's like a rock that you flip, you flip it. Yep. There's so many.

Yeah, it's pretty great. Really beautiful, handcrafted tools that we've never looked at since they were given to us. Listen, one day I'm going to go up in that fucking podcast loft that's hot as shit and clean it and organize it. And it's going to be beautiful. I let my one and a half year old niece, nephew. What's a nephew?

That's a boy. Go up there and he like picked up this like cute knit thing that someone made of Elvis. And I was like, you can fucking keep that. Like put in a good way because it was so cool. And he like went directly towards it and was like held it and then like carried it around the house for the rest of the day. And I was.

Someone made us and it's actually been a couple of people and it's probably it's the same style. But have given us knit versions, little versions of ourselves. I keep meaning to post this at live shows. And my dogs walk around with Georgia in their mouths all day. And it's so hilarious. And sometimes I take pictures because George does a thing where she's laying down.

And George is like a big lab, right? Yeah, she's half lab, half hound. So she's she's a weirdo. She looks weird. But she when she likes to do is if she's feeling lazy, she'll have a toy in her mouth. And she just flips it up in the air and catches it. That's like laying down.

Yes. So she is. So I have a picture series that I sent to Georgia of George flipping Georgia up in the air and catching her. And George is a girl, right? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to post it like a scroll thing on Instagram.

I know I keep saying I'm going to do shit on Instagram, but I'm really good. It made me so happy to see that. You know what? The reason I didn't post is because I couldn't find the girl who made that toy. Right. I don't want to credit her, but I'll I'll figure it out.

All the people and we do talk to people in real time when we're being given things, but we really do love them and we really do keep them and they're in boxes and stuff. Even though like weird shit people bring us, that's just like, I didn't know what to bring you. So I got you this like sticker from my town and it's just like fucking thank you.

We still have, I still, I was just telling my sister this when we were in, I'm pretty sure it was Seattle, a guy gave me his Costco card and goes, look at what it look at how evil I look in my picture on my Costco card. And I was like, oh my God, you, you look totally evil. And I handed it back and he goes, no, no, that's for you. And I still, I keep it.

It's right on my desk. It just sits right next to me right where I type shit. So, you know, we have you with us. I don't know that when that makes me want to cry. Like we're just, it's so funny and happy and lucky and I'm so stoked. We're having a good time everybody. Listen, sorry to be so stuck up.

Oh, I'm so sorry. We're into ourselves, but I'm Jewish. I think I'm pretty neat. I always wanted to be Jewish. Ever since I saw the goodbye girl in Quinn Cummings, I was like, that is, that's who I was supposed to be. I was born in the wrong body. I was born in the wrong family.

I'm supposed to be the child of a divorced mother in Manhattan. Yeah. Well, I think Catholic Catholics and Jews are very, there's a lot of similarities in the families there. So you just need to fucking take my cockiness a little bit. I'm going to. Okay. And like just take a little couple things.

I'm going to take a half a cup of your cockiness. My mother has told me that Jewish men and Irish Catholic women are the best combination because they're both matriarchal societies. And so a lot of other men get very offended by how bossy and controlling we are as Irish Catholic women, but Jewish men like it. Because I think Jewish women will raise that way too, which is why and we think we're bad asses.

So when I meet a Jewish man, I'm like, fuck you. You're so fucking cocky. Like I don't like it. I've never dated a Jewish guy. Vince is fucking atheist, whatever. And I could so I could see that like an appreciation there. Yeah. I think it's that's a nice mix.

This has been Catholic do talk. We're going to cut all this out. We're going to send everyone. Next week, Buddhism. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping and prepping handled. Hello Fresh has you covered. Hello Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the new year.

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when you go to hellofresh.ca slash murder20 and use code murder20. Goodbye. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong and on my new podcast Killer Psyche Daily, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds, psychopaths and cold-blooded killers you hear about in the news.

I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent and criminal profiler. On Killer Psyche Daily, I'll give you insight into cases like Ryan Grantham and the newly arrested Stockton Serial Killer. I'll also bring on expert guests to dive deeper into the details, share what it's like to work with a behavioral assessment unit at Quantico, answer some killer trivia and even host virtual Q&As where I'll answer your burning questions.

Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psyche Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. So it's me this week. Yay. Okay. Give it to me. I'm going to get my sweaty fucking ass on this leather couch comfortable.

Hold on. Slide your ass around and really find your space in this world. So having a job again, when I do my murders, I usually do them, I have to do them quickly. Okay, I'm sorry, but the pose you're in right now... Is this helping you? ...is... This is helping you.

...remind. Georgia's facing me on the couch with one leg up there as if I'm her gynecologist. But I have a pillow. It's exactly... No, you're blocking it entirely. But it's exactly like that scene from Girls when she's at surf camp and she just pulls her bathing suit aside and suns her pussy.

That's my favorite scene. I think about that all the time. And definitely... And I'm also wearing like 1970s, what is this called? Like a onesie? A romper. Romper, short shorts. So if I move this pillow, it would be full.

It's over. It would be over. I love that scene. You move that pillow. We're bestie besties. We're best friends. Don't think I wouldn't, too. Because nothing about shoes is we have no fucking shame.

Naked. We're just always naked. Can I tell that story of on your wedding night? I don't remember right now, but go for it. Oh, yeah. Can I? Fuck. I have no secrets.

You don't care. On Georgia's wedding night, and this was like... I don't even know what... Well, it was when you guys went back to your room, obviously, so it was probably 2.30 in the morning. I was already... I'd already gone back to my room and gone to bed. I look at my phone and Georgia had texted me a picture

of herself. Well, here, can I explain? After the wedding was over, we went to a little after-party thing, and I guess a bunch of you guys, my girlfriends, had snuck into our hotel room and decorated it all cute and put candles and like... That wasn't me. That wasn't you.

And put like... But you had helped me with the wedding, too. Yes, I just don't want to take credit for like... You made my bouquet that's sitting right over there. That's right. Put rose petals in a heart. Like, just some really cute, sweet like shit that in that whole day made me think how...

Like, there was so much help from so many girlfriends, and it made me so fucking... It was so wonderful. And so, I got back and saw that and started crying immediately. And then... And she had already taken her dress off. Yes. Which means she was topless entirely.

Like, she doesn't wear a foundation garment, our girl Georgia. So she's texted me a picture of herself topless crying with like her wedding... You still had something in your hair for your wedding. I texted that to maybe 10 of my girlfriends. And I had glitter because we had glitter in the fucking tote of it. So it was just glitter stuck to my entire body. And I was sitting on the bed crying.

And so, I don't care. A bunch of you guys have a topless photo with me. Make it and crying on your wedding night. Hell, who fucking cares? Well done, you. Yay, thank you. Thank you for telling that story. Okay.

So, because I'm pushing off my Homer to the last minute, I was going through, you recommended to me Mysteries Abound, which is... It's an amazing podcast by an Australian guy named Paul Rex. It is the best. He reads articles out of really cool magazines. And they're just... They're just interesting, fascinating wonders from around the world.

Lots of stuff about aliens. Lots of stuff about... There's murder stuff. There's just kind of general mysteries. Some of it's a nature based... So cool. It's so good. But he has this amazing voice.

So like, I've been listening to it on planes because we travel so much. And you get into that weird travel stress mode. So when I got onto a plane, I put that podcast on and I can like go to sleep. Or I can... I just am like super relaxed. So I've listened to all of them.

I'm obsessed. So also, he is an independent podcaster. So you can go on to just Google Paul Rex and Mysteries Abound. He has another podcast called Origins. Like Origin with a Z. Right, that's right. I haven't heard any of that. But it's another thing that seems fascinating.

Definitely. But when he reads his articles, says it's from this magazine or this website. Quotes the source. Quotes the source? I don't get it. Really good idea. And one of the websites he talks about all the time

is a website called coolinterestingstuff.com. Yeah, I've heard that following asleep. Cool from coolinterestingstuff.com. This is from coolinterestingstuff.com. Oh, I love it. So, but also please give Paul Rex money so that he keeps podcasting because it's so... It's such high quality.

It's so good. For sure. I did. I'm not just telling you to. I did. So anyway. You gave him money. Got it.

I gave him money this morning because I was like, I want to tell people to do it. But I don't want to be. Right, right, right, right. I need to walk the walk. Take it. Anyhow, I went on to coolinterestingstuff because I was like, okay, I'm going to find...

I'm going to be able to get something and get a murder because oftentimes if I leave it till the day of, the store, it's the chronology that gets me. There's so much information that you... Like, you know, you want to pick a good one but then there's just so much stuff that you have to sift through and you have to figure out the story you want to tell.

And you can't just read like a news report on it because that's not interesting. You have to tell... I got the same thing with mine this week where it's like, how do I end this or how do I like make this exciting towards the end or do I make it just... Yeah, you have to, you know...

The story. I don't know. You have to work on your podcast. She's like, write a story for your podcast. It seems bullshit. I'm like kind of annoyed. I don't like it that much. Sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry, but... Who said this was homework? Whom do you think this is? Whom do you... I think you are. So, okay. Go on to coolinterestingstuff.com.

Okay. Which also seems like an independently produced thing. It's all articles and things. It looks like somebody's doing it out of their den. But someone's legitimately like, I think this is cool and interesting. Yes. Love it.

Is it even real? Who knows? Who the fuck knows? So this is the story that I found that I just love this. And this kind of combines all my things. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. It's called the carbon copy murders.

Have you heard of it? No, but I'm excited. Okay. So good. Okay. I just read it to you. So also coolinterestingstuff.com is the only source that I can quote because there's no individual writers that I found.

Like there was no individual writer on this article. And so a lot of this article is... It's a chicken and a den. What the hell? It almost just fell off the fucking couch. Sorry, sorry. Did he see fall asleep and then fall off the couch? Yeah.

And it was your drunk. It's probably one chicken, her den. Right. Yes, exactly. So if you work there or you know somebody, please tell us who coolinterestingstuff.com. Linda, tell us if you're working... Linda, give us your last name.

Linda, we want to know. Linda, we want to support you. Okay. The carbon copy martyrs. So on May 27th, 1817, at 6.30 a.m., a laborer on his way to work in Erdington, England. I'm sure that's how they pronounce it. Erdington.

I'm sure that's how they... England, I'm sure that's how they pronounce it. England, I don't know if you've heard of it. He sees a pile of bloodstained clothes near Pen's Mill. We say that is if it's somewhere we know what it's. Yeah. So he calls the police or gets the police, because it's 1817.

He calls out for the police. Police. And they search the area. They find two sets of footprints. Footprints, a big and a little. And they follow them down to a flooded sand pit. And then they dredge the sand pit, and they find the body of a local girl named Mary Ashford.

Oh, no. So they start... The cops start asking around and they find out the story of what she had been doing the night before. So it was a holiday called Wit Monday. And I looked it up. So it's basically, it's a Christian holiday 50 days after Easter. They kept calling it on like the...

When I looked it up on Wikipedia or whatever, they kept calling it Pentecost, which I'm like, I don't know what this is. And I'm like, a lifelong Catholic. I've never heard of this before. It doesn't exist. It does. If you don't know what it is, doesn't exist.

Me, the expert? Yeah. So it's basically... It sounds to me like it's like a last day of May. I mean, the last day of the end of spring kind of before summer holiday. And it's on a Monday. So it's basically an excuse to have a long weekend, even back in 1870. And so that night, they were having a dance in Erdington for Wit Monday.

Okay. So Mary, she had traveled from Erdington, her hometown, to Birmingham to sell dairy produce at the local market. That's like what she did for a living. And then she had plans to meet up with her friend, Hannah Cox. She was going to go to Hannah's house, change into her party dress. And they were together going to go to Wittson Tide. The Wittson Tide dance is what it was called for Wit Monday. Okay. That was at the Tyburn House Inn that was that night.

So she got to Hannah's house at six in the evening. She changed into her new dress and then they went to the dance together. I'm sorry, she's 12? 20. 20. Oh, that's a lot older. Okay. It's like eight years old. So at the dance, they have a great time. She's a very popular, well-known girl, Mary is.

And so they have lots of male admirers at the dance. But for the most part, she had spent the evening in the company of a young bricklayer named Abraham Thornton. You get that bricklayer. My grandfather was a bricklayer. No way. He was the president of the bricklayers union in San Francisco. Oh my God.

Yeah, so. The two of them together sounds like a fucking cover of a romance novel. Yeah. The Lady and the Bricklayer. Hell yeah. That's it. If you lay bricks, then you also keep your shirt unbuttoned to your navel. Definitely.

And he's like more like a bricklayer. I don't know something. There's something there. Just like let it like roll around in your mind for a little bit. So she's hanging out with Abe. Her friend Hannah is hanging out with a guy named Benjamin Carter. So the dance ends at midnight and the four some leave and Hannah and Benjamin are separated and married.

So Hannah and Benjamin go off this way and Mary and Abraham go off in another direction. Definitely leave your friend with a guy she doesn't know. Right. I mean, look, they're 20. Yeah. They're in a dance, good times, great oldies. Now let's go first role in the land.

If you can't trust a guy you just met, who can you trust? If you can't trust a fucking bricklayer, what kind of world do we live in 1817 England? Yeah. Okay. So later on, it's like 3 30 in the morning. Mary is seen walking toward back toward Hannah Cox's house and the witness tells the police that he noticed she was walking very slowly and that she was alone.

At Hannah's house, she takes off the new dress, changes back into her work clothes and tells Hannah she's going to go home. She says goodbye, leaves the house at 4 a.m. And she's only she's seen two more occasions that night. Occasions. You can tell that was a cut and paste word if you've ever heard one. A man named Joseph Dawson testified that he'd seen Mary in Bell Lane around 4 15 a.m. I mean, they partied all night.

Dude, that's like, I can't, I can't do that. And that's 200 years later. Well, but she's 20. Sure. And she's got that like a milk, a milk maids constitution. Yeah. She's like, I'm selling dairy all week. Yeah.

I want to party. Yeah. Okay, he's Joseph Dawson sees her at 4 15. And then 10 minutes later, she was seen in the same lane by a guy named Thomas Broadhurst. There's a lot of people out. Yeah. That night. Well, because it's that three, it's that three day weekend everyone's sure working for

both witnesses say that she was alone when they saw her. Okay. Okay. So when the police interview Abe Thornton, the guy, they tell her that she has been murdered, that she probably by strangulation after being raped. He was in total shock. He told the detectives, I can't believe she was murdered. I was with her until four o'clock this morning.

So the police believe him to be sincere. They, he doesn't understand that he's the chief suspect in this murder investigation. He's finally taken into custody. And they grill him about the night and every the whole everything that happened after they left the dance. He says that they did have sex. But he didn't. In 1817 they bone.

They totally boned in a field. Oh my God. It was better than. Yeah. Less chemicals. They had sex, but he denies, of course, that he raped and murdered her. He actually states that when Hannah and Ben peeled off, he and Mary strolled hand in hand through a field over to a style, which is, I don't know if you've ever watched like a Jane

Austin movie, but sometimes you know how like they walk through fields. They're like, I'm going to go over to that castle over there and they just start walking. Well, when you come to a fence, they used to build in stairs into the fence with like a pole so you could walk over the fence without the like sheep getting over the fence. So that's, that was called a style. Okay. That was the standard thing. So they went over to a style, sat down, started chatting.

Oh my God. What's it like to lay bricks? It's like this house. What is it really like selling milk? I'll tell you, shut up. I'll tell you, if you just let me talk for one second, they talk for 15 minutes and then they go to the green at Erdington where Mary goes back into Hannah's house to change out of the dress she's in her nice dress and into her work clothes.

He's waiting outside for her for a long time and she doesn't come back out. So he goes home alone. That's his story. Hmm, he and that story is backed up by three witnesses who saw him standing there waiting for her. One was a gamekeeper named John Hayden who stood there and talked to him for 15 full minutes. So everybody's like, yeah, this, you know, so clearly he did it.

So clearly it's this piece of shit. No. No, so that basically the investigation stalls out because aside from that like bit of action, there's nothing else that they know about what Mary did that night. And no one saw the two of them together after she went back into Hannah's house. So they have a trial. Still he's arrested and he's and he's brought to trial and that trial was in August of that year at the Warwick ass size court.

No, but fuck yeah. Yeah. What is your ass size? We'll guess your weight and charge you with murder. Your ass size doesn't look innocent. Okay. So hundreds of people think he did it. So they're all standing outside the court waiting to for the guilty verdict.

Those are the good people. Yeah. Those are the murdering knows of 1817. Yeah. So it turns out after six minutes of deliberation, the jury came back and with the verdict not guilty rate. So in modern English law, that verdict would have been final, but in early 19th century, an ancient law existed, which enabled Mary Ashford's brother William to appeal that verdict

and demand a second trial. Hmm. And so the judge Lord Ellen Burra, he decides he allows Thornton to take advantage of an archaic law called trial by battle, V-A-T-T-E-L. That's how you know it's old. So basically that it means he can renew his plea of not guilty by literally throwing a gauntlet down from the dock. No. Yeah.

So yeah. So it's. Come on. That and by doing that, he is challenging William Ashford, Mary's brother, who is the one who wants him, you know, retried. He's challenging him to a fight to the death. Shut the fuck up. Yeah.

Unless one of them surrenders or is incapacitated during the fight. Guys, guys, guys. So people to fight this because it's such an ancient, but it's basically Lord Ellen Burrow is like this is the law of England and it's allowed. And so my God, can you imagine today of like that thing? All right. Well, there's a lot that says you can have a duel. So yeah.

So grab this axe and throw it on the ground. It's in the law books. So if Ashford accepts the challenge and wins, that means Thornton will be executed immediately. But if Thornton wins, then he's free and doesn't have to ever appear in court again for this murder. So we got for the murder of this guy. Oh my God. Well, no, that one's like everybody knows that that's what he signed up for.

So so this guy does it. He's like, hell, yes, I'm in. So he throws the gauntlet down and William Ashford basically doesn't respond to Abraham Thornton's challenge. And so he gets off. So it's basically like one of those things where you if you have a traffic ticket and you challenge it, if the cop that gave you the ticket doesn't show up in court, then you don't have to pay the ticket. So the brother was like, oh, I don't know the trial.

And Abraham was like gauntlet. And he was like, you know what? I don't want to get killed. You're good. Because you're a big beefy bricklayer. And you're going to kick my ass. You're like walking off the cover of a romance novel. Yeah.

It's you're you're like, what's his name? Fabio. Thank you. Don't we say that because Vince jokes about Fabio all the time? Does he? Fabio was sitting behind our table at a sushi restaurant once. Me and my friend Karen Anderson. And so I was staring at Fabio the entire dinner.

And I was like, there's a celebrity behind you. You have to guess who it is. Oh my God. You will never not believe it. She guessed people the entire dinner. And I was giving her clues. That's my dream dinner conversation. Long hair, romance.

I was giving her every clue. She never guessed it. And we had to wait until he got up and walked out. And then she's like, Fabio? No. Yeah, I'd be like. Yeah. Vince will jokingly say like something like you look great.

Like I know Fabio is your type. But like he always references like when we're making out, you close your eyes and think about Fabio. No, I don't. He's your. Yes. He's your male ideal. Yeah.

That's who I think about. Okay. So essentially he gets off. He never is going to get tried again. And he ends up it's such a. He he's so known as everyone thinks he killed Mary Ashford that he ends up emigrating to the United States because he can't get a job as a bricklayer.

True. So exactly 157 years later to the hour. Shut the fuck up. After the discovery of Mary Ashford's body on Monday, May 27th, 1975, which was also Whitt Monday. Oh my God. Late on they that holiday late on the same day. 157 years later, the body of 20 year old Barbara Forrest was

found dead in the long grass of a ditch near Pipe Hayes Children's home where she worked as a nurse. She had been strangled and raped. The bodies of both victims were found within 300 yards of each other. Oh my God. And later police arrested Michael Thornton. No. A Birmingham childcare officer who worked at that same

Children's home where Barbara worked. So here's the similarities. They were both 20. They look alike. And there are two pictures. One looks like an illustration of a Jane Austen character. And one is a straight on picture of a very pretty, very young 70s gal.

So you can't get the profile thing, but they look alike. It's the same like small, fine features of two young women, essentially. Both pretty. They had both visited their best friend on the evening of Whitt Monday to change into a new dress for the local dance party. They were both raped and then strangled. And they were both that happened to them both at the same time of day. Oh my God.

Same guy did it then probably, right? Yep, he was a time traveler that was just about that spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyone who walked by that spot he was going to kill. They were both obviously both guys named Thornton. Jesus. In both instances, the man named Thornton was charged, then subsequently acquitted. Wow.

Mary Ashford and Barbara Forrest had this same birth date. And not ready to move on yet. Okay. Stop it right fucking now. Now listen, this is from coolinterestingstuff.com. Well, clearly they're correct in titling their fucking website that. Holy shit. If this is true, all true, I love it.

It's so insane. If it's not, it's still fine. I still fucking love it. I still love the concept of it. But fuck. I mean like this because this could happen. That's just that thing of like if a hundred monkeys are typing a typewriter, like it's that kind of thing, but it's, but it's also then it brings in my favorite kind

of a culty thing, which, which is could something else be involved or whatever. I love it. Here's the other similarity. A week before Mary Ashford was murdered, she told her friend Hannecox's mother that she had bad feelings about the week to come. But she didn't know what it meant. She didn't have any specifics on that. And 10 days before Barbara Forrest was raped and strangled,

she told a colleague at work, this is going to be my unlucky month. I just know it. Don't ask me why. Carbon copy murders, ladies and gentlemen. Sharon. Isn't that insanity? Oh my God. Coochie twinge.

But you're saying that with your leg up in the air. Sorry. I just, I am splayed open. I mean, can it twinge at that angle? Can you see? Can you see? I'm only going to tell you. You're embarrassing Steven.

I'm sorry. Steven is flat face, flat on the ground. No, he's taking notes. I think he passed out. Nope. You're right. He's passed out. Shit.

We killed Steven. Killed Steven. Oops. Well, you're coaching to kill Steven. Oh man. Ain't be the first time I kill, I don't know. What? That doesn't make any sense.

That was amazing. I'm creepy and fucked up. Insane. Thank you for regaling me. Thank you, Paul Rex. Thank you, Linda from coolinterestingthings.com. Or Lyndon. Lyndon or Linda.

Whoever you might be. That's it. So here's one that's been in my drafts like since the beginning of this podcast because I've always loved this story. Okay. But there's never like good closure to it because it was only five years ago.

But I always kind of look it up and see what's new and so finally I'm ready to do it. So this is the Anisee shootings. Okay. All right. Go ahead and give credit right now to Sean Flynn who wrote this like five-part GQ article about it. That's really great.

But it hasn't been, I think it's from a couple years ago. So there's, but I, but he helped me a lot. So thank you. All right. September 5th, 2012 on the secluded route. Ready for this? Florestaide de Monlier de Lacombe de Irie. Wow.

No, not even close. Near the southern end Q the fucking corrections corner. I mean at the southern end of Lake Anisee in France. Okay. It's a small serene city. It's about six hour drive from Paris and a man named Brett Martin was out riding his bike cycling up this beautiful hill.

And as he crossed a river bridge and continued up the hill, a little girl came stumbling into the road and collapsed in front of her family's car that was parked on the side of the road. Oh, seven year old Zainab al-Hili had been shot in the shoulder and she had been pistol whipped. He stops at the scene and inside of Zainab's family car, the family BMW had a camper attached

was the dead bodies of her father, Sayi al-Hili. He's a 50 year old satellite engineer. His wife, Iqbal, she's a 47 year old dentist and Iqbal's mother, Suhail, she's 74 and each have been shot twice in the head inside the car. The family was in the area on vacation from their home in Claygate Surrey, England. And they were on their way for a walk in the woods,

just a random venture into the woods. And also on the scene outside the car was the dead body of a local cyclist, Sylvain Malier, he's 45, he's been shot five times twice in the head. The car was stopped in a way that investigators were able to tell that prior to the shooting, the BMW had like reverse sharply, the driver was Sayid, into the lay by.

So in reverse, like trying to get the, thinking you trying to get the fuck out of there. The wheels had gotten stuck in the gravel and as they tried to make a getaway, so the car had gotten stuck there. The car's still running, the, it's in neutral but someone has just jammed on the gas pedal. So it's just revving up, all the doors are locked

with the three dead bodies inside. Police said that the shooter had originally been in the woods but had come out into the road to kill everyone. So police come, they're investigating the whole thing, they cordon off the area, eight hours later as they're still investigating the whole scene and the bodies had still been in the car, a specialist forensic investigator finds four-year-old Zana,

she's the youngest daughter of the All-Hilly family, hiding beneath her dead mother's legs and skirt in the back of the car, unharmed. So she had been hiding that whole time, including the eight hours where they were trying to figure out what happened. They had seen one child seat in the car and they had one child at the scene. Yeah.

Can you fucking imagine that poor medical investigator who thinks he's opening the door or she is opening the door? Or finally removing the body after like, photographing everything. A four-year-old, I just was at my friend's house today and his three-year-old came home while we were leaving. No. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. It's all right. It's awful. So clues at the scene point to a lone killer who had already been near the lay-by when the All-Hilly family arrived and they had been in a seemingly random drive again,

like I said, they came from their campsite that was by Lake Anisey, which is like this fucking gorgeous town. The local cyclist, Mollier, he was also on a totally random ride on a route that he had never taken before. So the whole thing seemed random. It was speculated by the whole scene

that the All-Hilly family had been tart. The target of the whole thing and that they were shot first and the cyclist happened on the scene and was killed as a result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. So he just showed up. And the eyewitnesses said that neither the car

or the cyclist was being followed. So there's another dude. The dude who came up on the scene was coming up the road, had gotten passed by both that other cyclist and the car and was like, nobody was following them. Oh, so he was like the slower cyclist. Yeah, shit. Yeah, and he like found that.

He says he got to the scene. He's like suddenly putting together what happened as he's trying to help the girl. And then he's like, well, I'm about to get shot. He says in this documentary that I saw, I was like, well, I wonder what it's gonna be filled up. It's gonna feel like to get shot by a gun. But he just is positive.

Yeah, because it's just, it just happened because he had seen them. All right. Motives quickly are thrown about by the media who fucking freak out about this case, both in England and in France. So both Said and Sylveon worked in the nuclear, in nuclear industry jobs.

Yeah. Moliere at one of the largest suppliers of nuclear components in the world. And Al-Hili in the past as an Iraqi, in Iraq as an engineer on sensitive topics. And currently in the UK, involved in nuclear and satellite technology. And there were sensitive files

found on his computer at work. So it was hypothesized that this was a hit on one or both of them, that they had intelligence that the government or another fucking place wanted them silenced for. And maybe one of them got in the wrong time, they're at the wrong time, or they were like working together, who knows.

Then two European newspapers cited anonymous German intelligence sources, reporting that Said's late father had smuggled cash out of Iraq for Saddam Hussein and stashed it in a Swiss bank account. But it was soon found that Sylveon Moliere was on a three-year leave of absence from his job. And he was just a welder at the nuclear plant.

That's the cyclist? Yeah. Okay. And he didn't have access to anything that would be in interest to criminals. Nor did Said have access to any classified secrets or anything satellite related that would be of interest to any terrorist cell.

But of course, the fucking media had gone crazy and were like, this is why this whole family got killed is because- Terror. Right. Some kind of terror. And then while Said's late father, the guy who they said had money in Iraq,

he did leave cash when he died in 2011 in a Swiss bank account. It had no ties to Saddam Hussein. It was much less than they assumed it was going to be. So it really wasn't any connection. The next aspect that the media and investigators targeted was Said Al-Hili, who's the older brother of Said. The brothers, they hadn't spoken in almost a year,

except through solicitors, AKA lawyers. That's what we call lawyers in America. Right. And they were sorting through their late father's estate. So they hadn't spoken in a year because it was really like crazy and fucking stressful. So like there was a fight about money and who got what?

Inheritance, whichever one's like, oh well, clearly. There you go. There was the money in the Swiss bank account. There was the house. There was a house, a small studio in Spain, and they were fighting over it. But Said insisted that they were being civil about it though and insisted that there was no actual feud,

which seems hard to believe, right? He even defended his brother against the suspicion that he was a spy and said the amount of money was much smaller than was rumored. But on Friday, September 28th, the police came to his flat with a search warrant. All the houses near his flat were evacuated, and the Royal Logistics Corps bomb disposal unit was summoned.

So like they freaked everyone out in the neighborhood. They were like, we got this guy. What year was this? This is 2000 and 12. Oh, OK. OK. Yeah, 2000 and 12 still. So they're evacuated, made a big scene. They said that there was something suspicious.

And these are like these, I feel like these European like trade mags like this or like gossip mags, like go crazy with whatever they have there. The same way we do, but in this way that's like. No, they're they're insane, right? The sun, you mean like those top leg magazines? They're insane. They're horrible.

Right. Yeah. So this was like a big story in there. So anything that they got, they would put on there, including that there was, quote, something suspicious, potentially hazard found in his house. Can I just say one thing really quick? So you hear about the Grenfell Towers, which was that huge apartment building that burned.

And was basically burned because it was like it was slum lords didn't. There were no fire extinguishers. They weren't in. Then there was lots of complaints and no one did anything. And so many people died. A firefighter who had to go in and fight that fire posted a picture of his helmet on social media and all these people were like, it was like going in to help or, you know, whatever or something.

And somebody from the sun, I believe, replied, do we have permission to use this picture for our newspaper? And the firefighter wrote back, not for that shit, Rad. And everybody was retweeting it and faving it. Oh my God. I think it's like people because those, because those they have such an influence on the way people see things and they act like it's like, look, people need to hear the story.

But it isn't like the story. It's just this weird bias. Well, they have like quoted sources, but there's, you don't know who those sources are. Those sources haven't been confirmed as being correct. Exactly. And it's like this thing of, well, if I don't put this story out and it turns out to be true, if I don't do it first,

someone else gets to it and there's no fucking point of me putting it out. So I'm going to put it out now and hope it's true. Yeah. And then I'll go back and fix it if I need to, or I'll put up the next story. And yeah, they don't play by actual journalism roles, which is you can't quote a source that you don't, if you're not, like it's, there's certain phrasing that they use.

I just read a thing about this where they use this phrasing that basically just means anyone could have said this. It could be like, they could turn to somebody in the next cue. We'll be like, Hey, do you think this? And they'll be like, a source says, or whatever. There's certain buzzwords that you can look up, which is so the frustration that we can go on about this over 24 hour news is that like you don't have a chance to really research anything

if you need to get something out immediately. Well, and everybody else depends on that. We're trusting these new sources, these, these, like all these news stations as if they are, when so many times we've seen in the past couple of years, they'll go with a whole story based on a tweet. Yeah. The end, it's like we as a person that's on Twitter all the time, it's bullshit.

Like the idea that you would base anything on a tweet that could be from anyone doing anything for any reason. Totally. Our boy Riz Ahmed actually tweeted something about that where he's like, you hear so much about Muslim terror. But when all the apparently so many Muslim people ran into Grenfell tower to try to save people from that building. Oh my God.

And you don't there. No, you don't see any headlines about that. That drives me crazy. All of those you hear about all like this thing that happened, but you didn't hear about this, you know, this bombing in fucking, you know, some town that we don't, or some city in Iraq that we don't care about because someone's decided we don't have to care about it. Right.

Right. Even though it's also innocent fucking people getting killed too. Yeah. So, okay. Well, sorry. So no, I think it's important that we talked about that. So they said that they found something potentially hazardous in the house. And they found it in the garden shed behind the house,

which is so ominous and like where you make bombs, probably your shit, right? Fertilizer. Right. Right. The police never announced what it was, but it turned out to not be dangerous. And it said that they found just a taser, which was illegal to have. But despite them not finding anything on June in June 2013, he was arrested. This is the brother for conspiracy to commit murder.

But he only spent one night in jail and was never arrested again. So also the cyclist who happened upon the scene was ruled out as a suspect as well. Other motives that have been thrown around are the involvement of the SAS, which had to look up special air services of the British army, CIA, Israeli intelligence, Iraqi agents, Saddam Hussein loyalists. It was determined that the bullets and by the bullets in them and the gun part of the gun handle that broke off when the murderer pistol whipped this fucking seven-year-old girl who survived and is okay now.

So we can calm down that it was a 7.6 millimeter Luger manufactured between 1909 and 1947. And it's a type of gun that was issued to Swiss army reservists in the 1920s and 30s. So a fucking like really rare gun. Yeah. Then the other thing was that there was a connection. So the Iqbal, the wife, she who died, she then it came out was secretly married, had a first secret husband in America that they kind of died, you know, like not died. They married for a green card.

It wasn't about anything. The husband didn't even know, turned out, so he didn't even know. That same day that she got killed, he died of a heart attack. The husband in America? Yeah. He had a heart issue and then drove into a tree and died. Uh-uh. No, no.

Right? No. Same day. Nope. But it's later ruled out as a coincidence. Bullshit. Okay, well, what do you think happened then? It's, someone got Michael Clayton's.

They just stuck a needle in his neck or some weird thing that, and then he crashed into a tree. What, so she's a dentist. What if she like implanted some like little thing in there and like, as soon as she died, if I ever die, you're going to die too. Like if my heart stops beating. Oh, like it was her thing? Yeah. Like if my heart stops beating that thing and you're too, so never, you can never have me killed.

Or what if they were just really in love? I know. Or what if they just died on the same day? Or what if? Or what if, hold on, there's five more. That's what this whole fucking story is. This is a fucking major murder mystery. Yeah, because when you first said it, I was like, I know what this is.

And now I have no idea what's going on. Can we edit this in, Steven? I meant to say at the beginning, are you ready for a hardcore murder mystery? I fucking totally meant to say that to get you all amped and I fucking forgot to. Let's start over. No, you just keep, just plow ahead. You can do this. Karen.

It's already happening. Are you ready for a hardcore murder mystery? Yeah. Okay, go right. Next suspect. Halfway through. Yeah. Well, now I'm ready.

Now it gets deep. Okay. Okay. Patrice Mengaldo. So the sister of the cyclist who died at the scene told police that she was in an on-again, off-again, seven-year relationship with an ex-Foreign, French foreign legion sniper, named Patrice Mengaldo. He had been given just a standard interview as a witness because he was a local,

but he was not a suspect. But then he wasn't a suspect. Twenty-one months after the killing, leaves a suicide note saying he couldn't handle being considered a suspect and shoots and kills himself. What? Yeah. Not being a suspect. He wasn't a suspect.

He said he can't handle being a suspect, considered a suspect, which he wasn't. And he was a fucking sniper. Right, right. Then, okay, Michelle Michele Hect. In 2016, retired police captain turned private detective Pascal Hutch, who I want to fucking hang out with, he tipped investigators off to this 1986 murders of school teachers Paul Bellion, who was 29, and Lorraine Galsby, 28 of Derbyshire. So these two school teachers, these like sweet baby angels, they're fucking

engaged and shit. They're on a cycling holiday, holiday, when they fucking disappeared. Their bodies are later found in a shallow grave in a maze field in Brittany. That's corn. Corn, aka corn. They had been bound back to back, gagged, and they had been shot with a hunting rifle. And the case had been unsolved for almost 30 years. And the French detective thought that the similarities were really interesting.

And in fact, the mother of Lorraine, the girl, the young woman who had died, said that the moment she heard about the murders in Anisee, she thought the cases were linked because there were so many similarities. Wow. Yeah. The main suspect in those murders is 53-year-old Belgian Michele Hect. What's M-I-C-H-E-L? Michele?

Isn't that Michael? Michele, Michael, Mr. Hect. Where are you getting Michele from? Michele, Miche- Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael. Edit that, Steven. Well, I can't remember now in, like, I can't remember in French class what that, what, they probably didn't teach you that. I think Michael in French is Michel.

Right. Yeah. Okay. Well, he had been jailed in 2008, this fucking dude, trying to, for trying to kill his own family. Whoa. He shot at his brother, sister-in-law, and their baby, and they, none of them died, but they'd all, you know, been injured. He, so he had been in jail in 2008, and he had been let out of jail for that 10 months later.

Because, and I don't understand this, he had already been on remand for three years. Mm-hmm. I mean, maybe he had already spent three years in jail, so they let him out. I don't fucking know. Sounds insane. For the same, Oh, so they're like, look, you've done your time for almost trying to kill your whole family, including a baby.

Yeah. Okay. So Hect, allegedly, he confessed to the killings of the school teacher as well. He was in jail to a dude who was there, but the judge ruled it in a missable, and the DNA from that murder was lost. So he now lives in France. Fuck. Because it's like, but it, what's it look like?

Vossis. Vossis. Yeah, that sounds good. Okay. And it's two hours from Anisey. That's where he lives now. Okay. Okay, so they noted that the shooter had fired 21 times, mostly at this vehicle that was moving.

17 bullets hit people out of 21. Not one of those bullets hit the frame, or the doors, or the fenders, or any other part of a moving car. Eight of them were headshots, so it made investigators think that it was a professional. Yeah. Two in the head, which is the way special ops and assassins are trained to do. So each of them got two in the fucking head. He didn't hit the car. Like, can you imagine we would just be like shooting the sun?

Well, yeah. Well, even, even a person that probably like as a hunter has experience, you, a moving car, yeah. Shit. Yeah. And then like one guy in the front seat, two people in the back seat. Okay. So anyways, it's been five years since the murder.

The brother of Sid was asking, is it now asking? He's like in it still. He's like, I didn't fucking do it. He's kind of a badass. He's like, I didn't fucking do it. Fuck all of you. No one not coming in for more questioning because you have no, you don't know what you're doing. I think the French police don't want it to be a French suspect.

The English police don't want to be an English suspect. So no one's fucking working together. And this is awful. And so he's asking for a review from the British High Court judge. He thinks the French police know who committed the murders and that the dead cyclist, Sylvain Moller was the target and that his brother and his family were in the wrong place at the wrong time. So finally, and this is what I think fucking happened personally.

On February 18th, 2014, a 48 year old local man was arrested and made after a sketches shown and made public of a bearded man who had been seen in the area on a motorcycle that same day. So when the cyclist is writing up the hill to find this fucking murder, he sees a motorcycle going down the other way. Oh, and this person had never come forward. Even though it was a big case, obviously, any witnesses. So they have a sketch composite of him. They finally fucking release it two years later.

It's a bearded man on a motorcycle helmet. And they find a dude who they're not naming who bears a striking similarity. It's a 48 year old man between the photos. He drives a motorcycle. They searched his home and found a quote, cache of vintage weapons, including a Luger handgun, although it's not the same one that killed the families, the family. He had been a police officer, but had been dismissed recently before the murders

in June because of anger issues. Oh, so he was released without charge after questioning. So what I think happened and it's so fucking annoying because nobody wants to believe this. What's the simplest answer? Fucking road rage. Oh, yeah. They cut him off or the reason there was no there's no reason given why they would have pulled into the turnoff to begin with, you know, where they had to make the U turnip

go there and try to go the other way. They were they got stuck and killed. There's no reason given why they would have done that. So perhaps they were speeding or someone was speeding and almost hit each other. And so he veers off the road into this turnoff where they pull over to be like talk about it. Okay, maybe they're both fucking angry people and are yelling at each other. Yeah.

And then the cyclist comes on the scene at the exact time he starts to kill the family. Whoa. Road rage. I mean, that is very viable. Doesn't it seem? Yes. But I think this was do you want to hear my first fucking always? Yeah.

Thank you. Well, just from the beginning and also this sounds really familiar. You haven't done this one before. No, it sounds so familiar. I feel like I've seen it. You've probably heard me think about it. I bet you've told me about it like. Yeah.

Personally. But but I but maybe I just saw it on like. Yeah, it's on it. Yeah, it's not a lot. Because I think the fact that the cyclist who was murdered has more gunshot wounds. Yeah. To me, it's like that's the that's the anger one. And that's the key is the target.

And then the other ones were wrong place one wrong time. And he's just getting rid of witnesses. And if he's some kind of a creepy psychopath, it's not like he's going, oh, no, it's a family or anything. He's like, take out those witnesses, take out children, pistol whip a seven year old, whatever the fuck his deal is. Well, here's what I think you have a really good point, which is that the cyclist is the one exposed and he still gets seven gunshot wounds.

Yeah. The two people in the car are in a car and only get two. Yeah. And the other thing is that the dad and the daughter who got pistol whip were outside of the car when the shootings happened. So for some reason, they were talking to either the cyclist or the killer. But the other thing is they didn't ever mention anything in the police report about there being motorcycle tracks anywhere.

So this whole time I thought it was like a sniper in the woods. But, you know, maybe there are motorcycle tracks. They're keeping secret or something like that for investigation purposes. Or maybe he knows, like if just say he was responsible for the one, the cyclists who were murdered 30 years before, he has a real good system. He knows, you know, like he peels out in a certain way where it covers his track or just something like that. Well, he doesn't park in dirt.

He doesn't park in an indented, indentable surface or something like that. Also, here's this. Why would a father let his seven year old get out of the car to talk to a road rage situation? Definitely. That would be a classic stay in the car. I will take care of that. Totally. So that doesn't.

Totally. It could be the thing of like, oh, what does that man have over? You know what I mean? Like it sounds so innocent. Or even like we're lost. Can you help us? And it's just some fucking psychopath. Right.

Like there are fucking random. I mean, and if they're Arabic, he could be a fucking racist piece of shit. He could be a racist piece of shit for sure. He's a psycho. But why do you shoot the guy that comes upon the scene five times? Or the, or the secondary person, the non-family car person? As opposed to a couple times? As opposed to the two clean kill shots to the head, which this guy can do in a moving car.

So he clearly can do it to guy on a bike. Yeah. Why does that guy get three more extra? What's that? That doesn't make sense. Yeah, right. I don't know. That just, there's something to that.

Yeah. Also, he doesn't, it sounds like he did the family last because he didn't stick around to finish off the seven year old or know that the four year old was in the car. He ran out of bullets, which is why he pistol whipped the seven year old. It sounds like she got shot pretty early on in the shoulder. So maybe he was panicking. Then she got pistol whipped right before he left. Okay.

Who the fuck? Yeah. Yes. Can beat a seven year old with a gun. Yeah. Yeah. Because they couldn't kill her. And the other thing is that maybe the reason he shot and had to make sure that the cyclist was

killed first was because he's the one who had the easiest getaway. A bike? Yeah. Not if that guy was on a motorcycle. Right. True. I mean, it's to me. Okay.

To me, it's this. Go with me on this. Let's do it. I'm here. I'm there. The people are already parked at the turn thing. What do you call that? Layout?

What do they call it? They call it a layabout. But it's like for us, it's like to let someone pass you. A shoulder. Shoulder. Thank you. They're pulled over because they're like, look, we're going to go down and look at the river. We're going to take a picture, take a family picture.

So whatever, something, some nature thing. They hear something and it's like, everybody get in the car. We got to get out of here. Then the motorcycle and the cyclist situation comes up and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like it all kind of culminates in front of the car and that, or maybe they're all ducked down in the car, like stay quiet or whatever. Well, they are panicking to get the fuck out of there. Yes.

In the car, in such a way that, and I hate it to fucking mention this, and the cyclist is dead, like by the time he hits the ground, but they kind of dragged him a little bit. Because they rolled over him? Yeah. Like they were in such a hurry to get, they were freaking out to get out of there. Which means they were killed second.

Yeah. Okay. Oh yeah. Yeah. And there was, on the side's foot, on the bottom of the shoe was the cyclist's blood. So he was definitely out of the car at some point. Oh, okay. Okay.

Sorry, God. No, no, no, no. This is, I mean, this couldn't have more details in it. Yeah. It couldn't be more involved. So that basically is like, what if it's this? That family's coming down out of the woods on the cross the street or whatever. Their shit is in the layabout.

They come upon, as they're walking out. They're not walking though. Because this first cyclist that came upon them remembers them passing him at like, like recently, they passed him. So they pulled into that layabout like pretty quickly before they got killed. Okay. So, okay. So they weren't off somewhere else.

Maybe they pulled over, the daughter had a pee. That's why they're both out of the car. Him and his daughter, he takes her pee and fucking, why doesn't the mother go? That's weird. Yeah. Especially seven year old. Yeah. But also if it's okay, also it happens fast.

If they come up on, say it's a guy on a motorcycle holding a gun on a cyclist and they pull over like, this is bad because it's the guy who likes to kill cyclists. Yeah. Yeah. So he has some weird, it's say it's a cyclist serial killer. Yeah. They come upon the act. The only thing is you wouldn't get out of the car. Well, they wouldn't have pulled over probably.

Yeah. They would have like gunned it for the police. But if he was still alive, they may have. Because it's like. I'm a guy with a gun, with your family in the car. Yeah. I don't even know if I would do that. I would just fucking drive full force into the gunman.

But what if the guy, but what if the guy. You would then become your, I would probably do that knowing nothing about it. You're like, I'm probably just going to kill this guy. But it's the other guy who's the killer and he's like, thanks for killing the other person. We're making a short film. What are you doing? There's a camera next to the motorcycle. The cameraman is just like a sniper up in the Jesus Christ.

Yeah, dude. This one's always, you know, I love cold cases and unsolved shit. And this one is just like, this is exactly why it's just like, I just don't think it's the complicated answers. And if there are, if it is one of them, they're very, you could see them being the right answer. Those two suspects are, you know, it's definitely not the fucking, not that they're engineers and they had government secrets and it's not the brother. I really, really don't think so.

Well, I mean, I feel like they would have, if they found something at the brother's house, everyone would know about it because that would be a victory. And they would have, if they could have, they would have pinned anything on that brother that would have lived in court and obviously if there's nothing there, there's nothing there. And he made a really good point himself and he's like, he's kind of happy to talk to the news all the time. He's one of those guys. Yeah. But he was like, if someone were, if they were going to actually be a sniper and a hit on my brother,

they, why would they kill him in another country with his entire family? They would have killed him two shots to the head while he was leaving work or like out and about. They wouldn't have, this is such a messy fucking kill. Yeah. It's not that. And to kill the whole family, like for government secrets. Yeah. Unless it's, I mean, sometimes they do that.

Without killing the main guy. It sounds, yes, exactly right. It's like a mafia thing of like teacher lesson. Yeah. It's not that. Because everybody goes. Everybody there is murdered and, but one person is overkilled. Yeah.

It's very interesting that thing of like the very clean military two shots to the head. Yeah. And two, and it's, it's such, it's like one of the women were shot in the forehead. Like it's so exact. They're like a good shoot. Yeah. Shoot. A good shoot.

And also that they're not ducking. Like obviously they're sitting there. And was the little daughter already under her mom's legs? I bet you that mother was like, get under here. You know, she probably saw what was happening outside the car. Had great instincts. Jammed her under there. Yeah.

Maybe even did it just like the beginning of you pull up and there's weird. Yeah. Some weird vibe happening. And it's like, get over here by me. Yeah. You know, that kind of, oh man, that's crazy. So the story is that the, the brother still sees his nieces Zanid, the older daughter had been shot.

She made a full recovery and she and her younger sister, Zina, they now live in England with their maternal aunt and uncle. And the older daughter says she doesn't remember most of the attack. They're like trying to get her to remember it. Only that she says that there was only one bad man and she remembers her father's screaming to get in the car. Yeah. Why is she out of the car?

I don't know. That's the Anna scene shootings. That means that he was in the car. No, he was out of the car. Get in the car. Yeah. Out of the car. Get in the, let's get in the car.

Like get in the car. So maybe she did run out to pee. Yeah. And he, and he, yeah, he just got out. Good God. I know. That's intense. We're going to find out.

I feel like we're going to find out and have an update on this. It's so intense. It's also that frustrating thing of like somebody say, you, I don't remember you said what, uh, like nationality they were. Or they were from Iraq. So things like that happen and people are victimized by a killer, but it suddenly goes into victim blaming. Yes.

You're a terrorist. Yeah. What did you do? What secrets did you steal? Right. Like anytime, uh, a fucking Muslim gets killed, it's because what, what did you do? What terror cell did you belong to where it's like, no.

Also think of it like how many people, not people I know, but like how many people have jobs where you could kind of connected back to something. Everybody has secrets. Everybody has something mysterious in their life or in their past that you, that if you chose to look at that and blow it up, you could, I mean, Jesus. That's the thing. And this is what we talked about earlier is just that the racial profiling will never make it fair to any of any kind of racial profiling, no matter what it is.

It's like, it's never going to make a difference. It is. It's like, it's never going to make it fair to fucking, to never going to get you answers. No, it's, uh, well, the, the main problem with it is there is we all suffer from implicit bias because our brain makes decisions for us. It's old, it's reptilian, but it's that thing where you have to decide are you safe or not and why and that implicit bias culturally we have been told for years, people of a certain ilk, people of a certain color are dangerous. That's the messaging and that is the message and even different just so we don't even know how to,

we don't know how to, um, what's it called, uh, anticipate what their actions are going to be because we don't know who they are and they're different somehow when really they're just humans. Yes. Well, and it's that you've seen the video of like the white boy with an AK-47 in the middle of the street and the cops are like, put the gun down, put the gun down and they wait and they talk to him and it goes on and fucking on and everything and they finally get the gun away from him. That's because they look at that person that looks like them and they're like, this is fine, we can handle that threat. Meanwhile, you've got a person who has, is a registered gun over who gun owner who pulls over and there is a child in the car and they fucking shoot, shoot

into a car seven times, like 30 seconds after he gets pulled over 30 seconds after he's pulled over and the fucking cop gets acquitted. Yeah. Jesus Christ. I mean, the only good part about it, not that there's a good part about that murder, the good part about the world we live in now and as hard as it is to live in the world we live in now is just like after, uh, you know, this is a, it's going to sound bad when I first say it, but like after a facial, when all of a sudden you're, you're so broken out that it's insane, pulls all the shit up. It's the same fucking thing is for years people said to black people, there's no such thing as racial profiling. There's no, you don't get pulled over as much. I get,

it's all the same, all lives matter, bullshit. Nobody can say, I mean, people will say that still, they'll insist, but I think more and more people are waking up to the fact this is an undeniable truth about a large swath of our population who are pinpointed and victimized because of the way they look and not just victimized like, uh, somebody was rude to me. They're fucking being murdered in the street. Yeah. And murder is the, murder is the word. It's not, it's murder. Yeah. I remember telling my sister and I were talking about it and I was like, I just read a thing. I don't want to, uh, he was, he was a, he's the lunch man at a school and he knew, he knew all the allergies. The kids who had allergies, he knew

them. He made sure that they didn't get that food that like peanut allergy or whatever. Like he, just this idea that we're just taking out people based, based on and, and it's the, the, uh, uh, some, there's a really good quote of, um, the, the bad cops should be afraid of the good cops and not the other way around. Yeah. It's this thing of not all cops are this way. Yeah. But the ones that are should, we have to stop saying that's okay that they are. Yeah. If you're trained, you, the training needs to be such that you don't just murder people because you're scared. Right. And even if the guy was a fucking drug dealer and not a fucking school teacher or the lunch guy, it's like, you still can't fucking shoot him. You can't murder people. Without

any just cause. Right. It's the, yeah, man. Because you have, you're having a reaction. Right. Because you're scared because you're not a human in the fucking world. Let's sit here tonight and solve this. Yeah. Yeah. So frustrating. And also just the person we're talking about is Philando Castile, who was murdered. Yeah. Um, and so we should say that name. Yeah. Uh, you know, let's stop murdering each other. Yeah. Ironically enough, let's stop murdering each other. Let's have the good people like us and Steven be in charge like us. Fuck no. Are you crazy? We're such good people. All right, well, do you have anything fucking positive in this one? You go. No, I'm mad. Oh, no. Okay. Well,

so I'm trying to stay off social media at night, especially because I have insomnia and it's really fucked up and it makes, it makes it worse when I read stuff. So it's all bad news. It's just all bad news. So I'm trying to read more because I really love reading and it's, I realized it's just become this thing that I don't fucking do anymore because I'm so like reading a book. Yeah. Reading a book, which is like one of my fucking joys in life aside from cats. Um, so I found two now, which I'm really excited about. And so I'm like, toggle, which I never do this. I'm like toggling between them because one's spooky and creepy and one's like not. So the two I'm reading right now, we talked about this. She did a story on, um,

one of our minisodes, but, um, it's called startup by Dory Schafer. It's, I like just started reading it and I'm like more than halfway done. It's so fucking good. It's about like these fucked up tech people in the modern world and what it will make you want to do is like not ever look at your phone again. So it's really helpful. It's a novel or based on truth. It's a novel and it's like, it's like millennial techies in New York and how, and it's these different stories about each of them. And it's just like, it makes you glad for who you are. Anyways. And this is, she's married to Matt Myra. That's how I know who she, I've never met her, but I know her husband. And she's like a senior tech editor at Buzzfeed for years. So she's like, this book is clearly

like really well done. It's, it's really fucking intriguing and good. And I love it. And then the creepy fucking scary one that I'm totally, I can't read that like cause I'm scared as, um, called, uh, it's called black mad wheel. And it's by Josh Mallerman, which is actually a friend of Vince's from Michigan. And he wrote this incredible book called the bird box. That's creepy and fucked up and post apocalyptic. And this one's black mad wheel. And it's fucking creepy. And it's about like this noise that the government comes to like make this dude who's a musician find out where the noise is coming from because it's like making nuclear shit not work anymore. And it's just like super spooky. Yeah. That's awesome. So fucking reading and getting out of

this is making is helping me. That's good. Yeah. That's very good. What about you? Um, the positive thing. Oh, well, this is okay. I will say it this way. Um, so I one night, and we've talked about the podcast, I crashed my cars. I was leaving our recording, um, totaled it. I totalled the old Honda fit. It got totaled. You didn't total it. Yeah, that's true. It was in a car accident that then totaled the because it was relatively worthless. If only dog hair was worth money, it would have been the most expensive car in Los Angeles, but, uh, not the case. So since that time, and I think that was last November, or December. It was a long time ago. I haven't had a car. So I've been like taking lift and taking over and just doing whatever for a while at a

rental car. And I was spending so much money a week, like an idiot, like whatever. Well, I finally called my sister because then I started researching cars and car prices and which ones are reliable, whatever. And then it got worse. So overwhelming. Then I could not make a decision. And I was like, but I'm not a BMW person, but I don't want to buy, I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a kind of mediocre car, whatever. Finally, I called my sister because I was going to go home for Father's Day. I did go home for Father's Day. I called my sister and I was like, can you please help me? And she, I think for so long, like my mom was sick for so long and we were also stressed out for so long. And we were all just trying to get by for so long that like,

my sister and I would fight over nothing. And then we would have to like stop talking for a while because it was just bad. It was bad. Tension. Tension and guilt and like everything. It was like, nobody's, nobody was happy for 12 years. And that was, it ended two years ago, in a, you know, which is a good thing ultimately. So, but, but I finally realized this is one of the main things my sister and I fight about is how fucking controlling she is. Like I have to ask her to unlock the car door so I can get out and it makes me so mad. Like I have all these, I have all these things where like, if the car door is locked when I try to get out of it, I am immediately enraged. I'm the same way when I try to get into it. You're coming to pick me up or we're walking

to the car together and I have, and I try to open the handle and it doesn't fucking open and you know I'm there. Dude, I totally get it. Like why, why, I just, the like pull up of the handle and it doesn't open immediately. How dare you? Makes me furious. How dare you? And, and for me, the pull of the car door and it doesn't open is like immediately I want to scream I'm not six years old, like a six year old would. So anyway, I just texted my sister or called her, I can't remember, and I said, please help me buy a car. And she fucking basically delivered a new car into my hands and it was so awesome because I felt guilty. I was only going out for this basically 48 hours for to see my dad. I knew that was going to take a huge chunk of time, which would in the past

make her mad, but not she couldn't act mad. So it would be like all that stuff. Oh God, sister. So instead, I was like, can you please help me? Like I can't take another Uber. And she was like, I got you and delivered. Some people are just, we're all good at something different. Well, exactly. And she goes, I said, thank you for moming me through this. And she was like, it's my favorite thing to do. It's like, we basically figured out the good points of those things instead of all but always the bad. You used her powers of being a control freak for good. Yes. And I got to get my baby. Somebody helped me out. And it worked. And it worked. You asked for help and it was delivered. And I didn't get kicked in the goddamn teeth. So anyway,

now I have a new car and I love it. And I can make some calls from my steering wheel and all these things that modern people can't get to do. You just got a new flip phone and taped it, duct taped it to your steering wheel. I got a new phone. I mean, I got a new car and it has a phone in it. You know, it's a fucking sweet car and it's made me want to buy a new car too. It's nice. It's, well, also just you have to have a car. You have to, I mean, I was, I would do things like I wouldn't have groceries and I'd be like, I have to figure out the next time I go to Georgia's and I take an Uber home. Right. First I'm going to, I'm going to walk to the grocery store and then I'll get the Uber. Like shit like that where it's like, this is stupid.

Let's make my life harder. That's what I'm all about. I like to stack problems and never solve them. My therapist is like, spend your fucking money. Even if like whatever money you have, spend a little chunk of it to make your life fucking easier because you're always stressed out about making, about life being hard. That's right. You can't, it's so true. Like you have to remind yourself of the good part of what you have. Like there's lots of things to be stressed out about. If you work really hard and you work all the time and that's your life, I get it and I do the same thing. Take the money that you make and instead of being paranoid about not having this or that, spend that money so you understand what the good part about working hard

is for. Dude. And that's happening to me today. Get your fucking house cleaned professionally, your apartment cleaned once a month. Ooh. I don't care how small your apartment is. It's fucking brain changing. Yeah, that's a good idea. It's brain changing. I'm going to do that. Chemistry, change. Also, I have to get a handyman to come and pick up the couch that's just laying on my patio. That would make sense. I'm a little Sanford and son at my house just because I can't, it's that thing. I'm going to have to call my sister. Stuff like that's hard. It's hard sometimes, man. We're just, everyone's just doing our best. Yeah. Everyone's trying to do Stephen's best, but that's too high of a, I wish I could do Stephen's best. Stephen, if you owned a truck,

you could take care of these problems for me. He would do it tomorrow. Do you want to buy me a truck? Yes. We're in Stephen at U-Haul. Laura, get Stephen a truck. Laura. You guys, more than anything. Thank you for fucking listening and being good people, hopefully. Even you skippers. Skippers. And especially you Satanists. Yay. Say sexy. And don't get murdered. Elvis, you want to cookie? Bye. Bye.