My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 77 - Live At The Keswick Theatre

Episode Date: July 13, 2017

This week’s My Favorite Murder comes to you live from the Keswick. On stage, Karen and Georgia cover the killers Gary Heidnik and Edward Gingerich.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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There's nobody up there. Hey! What's up, you guys? I'm in the balcony. Ceiling. Wow. I was like, I think this is much bigger than it is. No.

It's still pretty big, though. It's still pretty big. Actually. Yes, yes. Wow. What? That was a good scream. It hits me, you know, when you walk on, and people are all screaming at you at one time.

That's great. I started screaming, too, and it felt really good. You did serve it. I started screaming, and nobody heard me. And it was like, great! You're like, doing a fucking weird scream? Yeah. To kind of a primal thing, right, at the top of the show?

Yeah. I'm not nervous now. Yeah. This is the last show of this fucking tour. You guys! For one second, I almost went, is it really? So we're going to sacrifice one of you tonight. We decided it would be fun to end the tour with an actual murder.

Yeah. Yeah. Chosen at random, just like Shirley Jackson's lottery. Yeah. Don't worry. Everyone has a stone. If you don't have a stone in your hand, you're the person we're killing. That's right.

We all throw the rocks at the person without a rock. Yeah. That's such a good plan. It is. It's like you're kind of like a Shirley Jackson's lottery director, in a way. Can we get, yeah, like for children? Do they ever have that in elementary schools? Killing children?

That's what you'd like to do? They don't. Aw, wait. Aw. Did you, what kind of shoes did you bring? Well, I brought these in more than the first night and then said fuck that in more like aerosol slip-ons the next night. And then I was like, this is the last show I should probably dress up.

And so I put fancy shoes on and fake eyelashes on. Yeah. Pretty nice. Thank you, Georgia, for carrying the weight. And your dress. Oh yeah. We checked this the other night. What is it called?

The tie. Missy miss? Sophisticated miss. Take a walk in that outfit. Sophisticated miss. Isn't she a sophisticated miss? Get on up here, Karen Kilgariff, and show them your outfit. Flaps.

Thank you. Thank you so much. I brought high heels. I think I wore them the first night on Friday night. And then I was just like, I don't know. I like the slippers feel. Yeah. I don't, you know what I mean?

Well, this sucks. No, I totally get it. Should I take, I'm taking these off now. Yeah. Whatever. You guys saw them. We're just like Alanis Morissette. Oh, barefoot and fucking, we don't get it.

I'm hell. Do it. I also, these shoes are my fanciest shoes, but they have the bottoms. Like there's just a nail. It's just a nail. Like that, the thing fell off years, probably decades ago. Probably. And I'm just like, well, they're tap shoes now.

Yeah. Click, click, click, click, click. You should have done a little something. Shouldn't. Oh, shit. That's the next chore. There's going to be a very large choreographed dance accompaniment on the next chore.

You think we're kidding. We're not kidding. No. We're going to do tear away outfits. And I would personally like to do some sort of a, we are a part of the rhythm nation breakdown in the middle. Well, technically any outfit is a tear away outfit if you really put your heart into it. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah. End of the show. That's right. Tear all this shit away. Tear all this shit off. I never want to wear this dress again by the way. Smells like, smells like three hotels.

And yeah, it's not, it's not working for me. Your favorite memories from this tour again. Thank you for asking Georgia. Can I get a spotlight over here please? Just from this weekend or the whole thing? No, the whole thing. You guys, it's been going on for a really long time. We started, we started in February in Portland.

No. Oakland. Oakland. Yes. I'm going to box theater in Oakland. Oh, we were so young and innocent then. I forgot my passport to go to Vancouver the next day. That's right.

It started with some drama. Yeah. And it's been fucking rock and roll ever since. It really has. We have a, we have a short video of our highlights to show you. It's a montage, right? Directed by Wes Anderson. Everything's all centered up.

I think. Steven, play it. Steven. He's not here. But I would say this, my favorite memory probably would be, and you're going to have to tell me where it happened. Right. I'll remember.

Indianapolis, I think. Okay. Maybe Milwaukee. Oh, the girl. There was a girl who in the audience threw up and then crawled up the aisle out of the theater. That is, oh. You're fucking giving them an idea.

That's how Karen will love me. I mean, yeah. You got to earn it if you want it. I was like, that is a girl who's doing an impression of me when I was 24. Fucking miss her. Last night we had a girl who ended up doing the hometown murder, but she tweeted at us and was like, I dated a murderer. And we were like, oh my gosh.

And she's like, in fact, I want to tell it so bad. I'm going to wait to get blackout drunk till after the show. Or like, well, maybe we shouldn't pick her. Okay. She changes her mind. But then Karen fucking voodoo just random picked a girl in the audience and it was her. It turned out to be her. Do you understand what that felt like to me?

Yeah. The power that I now know I wield. It was super weird because I have to say I like to do that kind of when you do the picking where you're just like, we'll see. We'll see. And there was just something where I was like, it's got to be this girl over here. But we already had somebody who had written something out that was amazing. So she came up and did it.

And then we were like, we have time for one more. And then I was like, it's got to be you. And Georgia had already written that girl's name down off of Twitter, written it on piece paper in case we forgot. So the girl walks up and I said, what's your name? And she was Amanda. And then Georgia just holds the paper up with her name on it. Like some fucking old fashioned magic trick.

Just you. And she's like, what? She's like, what the fuck? We were all creeped out. It was the best night. Let's do it again. Oh, we will. Oh, we will.

Don't you hate it when you do something insane and wonderful like that? Like when you turn to the right page, like the exact right page or like something crazy happens and coincidental and your friend is like, that's cool. No, you don't understand. I begged her from the audience. No, no, it's cool. Yeah. So I gave, I gave you your what I did.

You really did. Fucking knew, man. That's exciting. You did it last night. You did it tonight. Yep. I thought you were going to say your favorite thing was when the girl fucking ran on stage. I don't like that.

All right. Well, we won't. This is our domain. Let's not, let's not repeat that. Yeah. It's kind of triggering. It's triggering. We've talked so much shit about her.

I don't think anyone would want to. I know. They're just like, ooh. No, he lost her. What other things? I guess we went to crack her barrel. Or always food. Is it?

What did we eat backstage? We just had some great Chinese food. Crab rangoon. It's always my favorite part. What kind of snacks do they have backstage? Crab rangoon. We demand it. It's on our writer.

That's on our writer. They just knows. We don't have that. We're not going on stage. That's why we're 10 minutes late. 20 minutes late. They had to go to Shrewsbury to get crab rangoon. Local jokes don't get local work.

Okay. Fine. I guess this is our last show. This is why. Yep. We went antiquing. Is it not called Shrewsbury? Am I saying it wrong?

Yeah, that was right. I'm saying yeah, that was right. That's what you said earlier. I'm saying the same thing twice. Everyone here is like, we don't know what you're talking about. We did go antiquing. Lost our minds. Georgia, this is my favorite.

Georgia's like, I have to get these books. I want to get that mirror. And it's like all stuff you do not want to travel with. She's just like, what about this old anvil? Let's buy that. And Vince was like, I don't know. And I'm like, I'll make it fit. I will get it in there.

I'll get it. And I did. I packed it today. I have a fucking shopping problem. Like for real. But it was so cheap. Like four bucks for this. Like, okay.

I have a problem. You had to get it. But it's a fun problem. You had no choice. And then I do the like, this is so cute. But I don't need it. I have a friend who has it. Okay.

Then your antique shopping for a friend who doesn't probably want it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it was the thing that made me laugh was she was buying it. It was a really beautiful antique baby dress. But also that's haunted. So why would you?

Why would you? That's a very good point. Lauren's going to be like, thank you. My daughter is haunted. Thanks for the possession, Georgia. She was never the same again after that. She just keep her head just keep spinning around. Her voice got really deep.

Yeah. So thanks for the nine dollar child's dress. Oh my God, it's so cute. Yeah. What else? You know, so many memories. So many great times. White castle.

We did. Uh, no, no more food. Not white castle. Oh, fuck, we didn't find a white castle. We never got to white castle. Shit. I met Cracker Barrel. Yeah.

I don't know. Which is amazing. Oh my goodness. It's just as good as you all said it would be. And then yesterday Vince was like, I don't, I guess I don't, I don't want to go to the barbecue place that Georgia wants to go to. How about we go to Arby's? That was a mistake.

He's standing right over there. Sorry. Oh, he's like, he's walking away. Oh no. He's driving the rental car away. Wait, now we have to take a train home. Fuck. I liked Arby's only because there was a picture and Vince actually I think put it on Instagram.

Arby's now has a thing called the meat mountain. You guys know about this? This is real. People are wooing like they've had it. I know. I hope you have. The meat mountain is every Arby sandwich in just two pieces of bread. So it's just like turkey, roast beef, brisket, a fried chicken patty, this, this, ham, whatever.

And it's pork belly. This was it? Yeah. So there was a little like, like a cardboard poster standing on the counter. And as I was standing there looking to see what I was going to get, I looked down. I was like, oh my God. And there was a guy doing the exact same thing and he goes, oh my God, that scared me. Which is my favorite thing.

Just a stranger and I just start laughing our asses off at Arby's insane. Like they're trying to kill us. They're trying to kill us. Hard attack mountain. For real. Hey. What? Happy Mother's Day to all of you.

Happy Mother's Day. That's nice. Got a couple mommies. Oh man, a pregnant chick let us touch her belly. That sounds creepy. Like what I'm trying to say is after the show we were taking some photos with people and like, you know, I didn't say anything but I was like, there's her, I'm going to let her mention that she's pregnant because I don't say that.

She could have had just a small tumor. Yeah. And then she goes, well, can I pose with you guys touching my belly? And like all I ever want is to touch a pregnant, like when I see someone pregnant, I can't be like, sometimes I don't know why, it's like so sweet to me. And like finally someone asked me to do it instead of me going, can I have this one? It's one of the benefits of fame, that and really great coke. And when you combine them, oh my God.

Next level high. Have you guys ever tried getting high when you're pregnant? It is next level. All the mothers in the audience right now are like, I don't like this show. Or they're like, she's not lying. I don't like what they're saying and I don't like what they stand for. No, they agree. You know they agree.

You think they're high as balls? My mom told me she had a glass of whiskey and a Tylenol every night when she was pregnant with me. There I am now. Janice. I was stressed. I had two other children. Look.

And then she dropped my brother. Yeah. It's as if that's such a great combination, like in the 70s everyone did Tylenol. I like the sound of that so much. My mom used to always be like, people make such a big deal about pregnant women smoking. I smoke with both of you. And I was like, yeah, I had really bad asthma and Laura's stupid. So like, how about it's not a good idea.

We love our moms. They did a great job. Wonderful families that we're both from. What? Wonderful families. What? We have to stand right next to each other. Sometimes we're in theaters so big that we literally cannot hear each other speaking

on stage. It's super, it's great for comedy. Do you think in Franklin, what's it called Hamilton, I flunked everything in high school. You just called it Franklin. That was not for laughs. That's actually the rap opera about the one black kid from peanuts, which is so good. You have to see it. This is why she's the stand up.

You ran with that one. I've been waiting to say that for nine years. You just file things away. You take them and you file them away. You wait. That's great. Yeah. It's a waiting game.

I was going to say, do you think that they say what to each other, but that's not, that was funnier. So now I'm ending it on like a lower note. Sometimes we call that a tag. Oh, a tag. Okay. So moms, thanks moms for shit, but I bet they actually in Hamilton, they do say what, did I just pull out a huge clump of my own hair?

Yeah. Oh my God, I'm so stressed out. How did that happen? She's shedding. Jesus Christ. I need to take vitamins. No more Arby's for me. She was on stage when the first symptom appeared.

What did that happen? Everyone remembers it was ominous. Oh my God. Oh well. Yep. That's it. I'll bring you soup for whatever happens. Thank you.

Thank you so much. We got wished Happy Mother's Day too many times today in like a, you're a mother in age. Yes. So congratulations. And we're both like, fuck no. This is me looking at my phone all day long. People saying that.

Oh, like when they tweet things and stuff, like Happy Mother's Day to my mom. To my mom. I'm not your fucking mom. Oh, about us? Wait, what? What are we talking about? I met like strangers like at the hotel. Oh, that's right.

Happy Mother's Day. And I was just like, we're not. Thank you. I just said thank you. But you too. Yep. I'm like, can't you see from my really thick black eyeliner that I'm no one's mother? Yeah.

Maybe they thought Vince was our kid. Hair just falling out. Hair falling out. I only called your mother because your hair is falling out in clumps. Good point. Good point. I posted a photo of my mom today. My friend texted me and was like, can I just fucking say I hate people who are like post

photos of their mom. And like, love you so much. Thank you for everything you've done to me. And she's like, they're not, their moms are never going to see it. They're doing it for everyone else. And I literally just said, I posted mine so everyone could see how hot my mom was when she was young. And I just wrote, if it's not one thing, it's your mother, which my sister done.

And I was just like, how fucking hot my mom is. So am I. And then so am I, babe. Because she was hot. Yeah. That's why I did it. But then later you posted a picture of Ted Bundy and his mother, which I liked a lot. Happy Mother's Day.

I was looking for an edgine mom. There's no, they don't pose with each other. There was no edgine. No, they weren't allowed to touch Ed and his mom. They, there's a lot of rules in that household. Yeah. About mother touching. The skin bodies.

There's a photo of, what's that? There's a skin bodies photo of that, but there's no mother and son. Right. Anyhow. Fire exits are on either side of the theater or straight back where you entered. Drink in this part. It's the last time we're going to do it for a while. I've had a lot of coffee.

I just realized that I'm talking like this. This is so sad. I know. But great. It's going to be super fun. Yeah. Let's not be sad yet since they paid money to come to our show. You came to see us.

Happy. Yeah. Show face. Show face. Yeah. We're going to shine. Shall we sit down? Yeah.

Let's have a sit down. Yeah, let's have a sit down. Yeah, let's have a sit down. Let's tour. Oh. Look at these haunted seats. Here. Haunted.

Yeah. Oh. Like a lady. Here's your, here's your sweat towel. Oh, thank you. Great. I'm like dabbing sweat and then just like pulling hair. It's not hot in here, Karen.

Are you okay? Nope. I just, I went on vacation to chair noble, so. Do you know I would totally go, I like want to go there. No. Yes. I can't. Yes, you can for like a limited amount of time.

Yeah. They like time it. I'm not fucking kidding. They say time it? Like they give you a tour, but it's like we're going to dip in for seven minutes. Then we're going to run away. Yeah. And they're like, here's where you're, here's where it's at right now.

Here's how much, here's how many, like you can go get a tour, but they're like you're literally taking five years off your life. Yeah. And I'm like, who wants to live to be 85? Fuck it. I don't care. I'd rather see chair noble. Cut it right down.

Honestly. Tell everyone in the rest home you went to chair noble. Um. I do hear there's interesting animals there. Right. I have to, yes. The soil's all fucked up. So these things are like growing out.

Like a rabbit with a face on the back of its head. I'm, I'm, I'm down for that. A crab rangoon in my teeth. Um, crab rangoon. That's the word of the night. Looking for a better cooking routine? With meal planning, shopping, and prepping handled, Hello Fresh has you covered. Hello Fresh makes home cooking easy and affordable so you can stay on track and on budget in the

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Hey, I'm Aresha. And I'm Brooke. I'm the host of Wondery's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the incomparable diva, Whitney Houston. Whitney's voice defined a generation, and even after her death, her talent remains unmatched. But her incredible success hit a deeply private pain.

In our series, Whitney Houston, Destiny of a Diva, we'll tell you how she hid her true self to make everyone around her happy, and how the pressure to be all things to all people led her down a dark path. Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Should I go first? Oh, this is my favorite murder, look here. Oh, hi everybody.

Thank you for coming to our live podcast. Thank you for being here. Thank you for coming. We fucking love doing this. So fun. You went first? No, I went first last time, last night. So I go first?

Right? Yeah. I believe so. You guys wouldn't know. All right. Well, I picked a man who I've been reading about for several days. There's a lot of things to read about him, and none of them are good. And his name is Gary Hyde Nick.

Do you know Gary Hyde Nick? Yeah. They love him. We always say at this modern length, this is where the ushers are like, holy fuck, what's going on? What is this? What is happening in there? They were cheering for a serial killer.

Jesus. We got to get that acapella group back. This shit is weird. All right. Let me tell you a little something about Gary. He was born in November of 1943. His parents divorced two years later, and then he and his brother went to live with their father and their new stepmother.

Of course, the father is a bum out, alcoholic, abusive. I don't think he physically abused them, but he did the classic name. Gary was a bed wetter. And so to teach Gary to stop wetting the bed, he took his sheets and put them out the window. So the whole neighborhood could see. Which also, Michael Landers' father did too. I know. I thought I heard that recently.

Yeah. Yeah. Shit. Little house in the Perry, anyone? No. Okay. I'm the oldest person in the room. Fine.

Fine. Oh, I told Georgia the other day we were telling childhood stories. I also wet the bed when I was a child. Oh yeah, we both did. It was lazy. It wasn't that. It wasn't that. It wasn't that.

But I did it up until my mother, who was a psychiatric nurse, tricked me by one day handing me, as I went to bed, she was, oh, come here, the doctor gave me something to give you. And she poured cranberry juice, like that much cranberry juice, into a little glass. And then she goes, drink this, it'll stop you from wetting the bed. And it fucking did. Wow. Trick your fucking kids.

All up here. She was a mind game mom, for sure. She'd also, very, very early on, like when I was four, she'd go, oh, I can always tell when you're lying. And then I believed her, so I stopped lying to her, because I was like, well, she's gonna know, because she can tell when I'm lying. Mom. She was good.

Well done, Pat. All right. Pat. Yeah. But also, don't forget the smoking. Okay. No one's perfect. Okay.

So, this is a bit of information about Gary Hyde Nick that I really enjoy in the way that makes me a terrible person. When he was a child, he fell out of a tree and hid his head, of course, classically. But it also deformed his head, this injury. So then he was made fun of at school all the time, because he had a miss-shape in head. It seems sad now, but then when I tell you shit, he did, you're not gonna be sad anymore for Gary. I always try to stop my sympathy, because I'm like, but then he's gonna kill a ton of

people, and I'm gonna be bummed I feel bad for him. But also, it's that thing of like, I mean, what, it was, it was the fifties. How come you fall out of a tree and then your head just stays that way, like, no doctors, or anybody to help out, just be like, mm, okay, there you go, Gary. Stay low to the ground from now on, okay. So he ended up dropping out of school and joining the army, where he trained as a medic, and he actually did very well in the army until he was transferred to West Germany, and he didn't like that assignment.

So there he began to develop odd behavior, and he was eventually diagnosed as having a schizoid personality disorder, and he was honorably discharged with full disability pension. So this is like a thing that goes through his life, where no one's actually sure if he was working the system, or if he actually had schizophrenia of some kind, or some kind of mental illness. Point to that head fucking shape, and you know your answer. Yeah, that's true.

That could have been part of it. Yeah. And when he's like, they're like, we don't know if you're crazy, and he's like, but... Did you see... It sticks out! Sorry, let me take my hat off. There you go. Ah, yes.

Okay. So he comes back to Philly, and he decides to be a nurse. Oh no. Uh-huh. Does he do bad things, Karen? Well, yeah, but not in the hospital. Okay. It seems like in the beginning he actually really wanted to be a nurse and help people.

He interned at Philadelphia General Hospital for two years. That was in 1965. Give it up for Philadelphia General Hospital. What a great place. In 1967, he saved up enough money from that disability pension payout to buy his own house, and he rented out the bottom two floors. So he was, you know, a bit of a businessman. He also started hanging out at the Elwin Institute for the Retarded.

Now, this is a theme that goes through Gary Hyde Nick's life, and it's very disturbing because he goes into the medical profession. He is a nurse. He actually later tried to study to be a psychiatric nurse, but he behaved so oddly and had such a bad attitude, he got kicked out of the program. But he started to spend a lot of time at places that housed the mentally challenged. So he was a predator from day one. Can we also clarify that she didn't make that name up of the institution?

No. We don't use that word. It was back. You wouldn't? You guys all went, oh, like she made it up? No. No. It was called that.

If there's any, if I ever use the word institute, I'm not doing any writing in that line whatsoever. That's just a cut and paste Elwin Institute for the Retarded. But he was starting to, I guess, his behavior was affecting his work, whether it was a put on or not. He ended up also getting fired from the University Hospital where he had gotten a job. In 1970, his mother Ellen committed suicide, and from there his behavior got even stranger and worse. In 1971, he took a trip to California where he decided he needed to start his own church.

You know, the natural path, nurse, minister, just very clear. So when he came back to Philly, he started the United Church of the Ministries of God. Nice long name. He was the ordained minister. He had about 50 parishioners, and most of them were patients that he had met at the Elwin Institute for the Retarded. Oh, man, fill that room. Yeah.

However you can. Yeah. What? I mean. Was that bad? Wait. It wasn't great, but... No, I just meant... I didn't mean that in a... I believe you.

I know what your intentions were. Okay. You know what I mean. Yeah. And now I feel really self-conscious about having bare feet. Look, it's the whole... I feel weird. Like, look at that bare-footed bitch. Yeah.

I'm going to have to... Saying all the wrong words. All right. Okay. Yeah. Quick reminder. We didn't do any of these things. Fuckin'. Gary did them.

Okay. Yeah. In 1975, he opened a Merrill Lynch account in the church's name, and he started investing in stocks. Oh, no. Now I feel really weird. Socks? Stocks.

Yeah. Oh, socks. Yeah. He was going to make that good sock money, baby. Yeah. I was like, oh, he's crazy. And how fitting, because I was just... No. He's the guy that invented gold-toed socks.

Oh, my God. Tube socks? That's Gary. All right. The ones with the little ball in the back? No. He took $1,500, and he eventually parlayed it into a half a million dollars with good investments, and I don't know, moxie.

Okay. So he ends up buying himself a used Rolls Royce. He bought a Cadillac. He got a customized van because he's a creepial perv, and then he bought himself a new house. So during that same time, he also was in and out of mental hospitals, because he would get in trouble with the police. He would pull guns on people. He's super aggressive, a lot of weapons charges, and when they would interact with him, they'd

just be like, 50, 150, out of your mind. Okay. So in 1978, he began, this is going to get problematic, everybody, in 1978, he begins dating a mentally challenged woman named Angeline, and they have a daughter together. So one day, he decides that they should go, oh, sorry, her name is Angelique, and they decide they need to go visit Angelique's sister, Alberta, who is also mentally challenged, and she lives in a home. So they go, they visit her, they sign her out on a day pass, and she never comes back.

And so the staff, it goes to investigate, and eventually they find Alberta chained up in Gary's basement. Whoa. Yeah. So she'd been raped, and she had contracted gonorrhea from that. So he's charged, and he's sentenced to three to seven years in prison. That's it. Yeah.

Well, it's 1978. This was back when rape was not that big of a deal. So in 1983, he's released from prison after serving four years and four months, and he immediately signs up for a mail order bride service. Yeah. He's a romantic. So he starts corresponding with a 22-year-old Filipino woman named Betty Disto. And he tells her, of course, I'm a minister, and I have my own church here in Philadelphia.

And eventually, through these letters, he proposes to her, and he convinces her to fly to Philadelphia and marry him. And she does, and everything's great for a week. Oh, my God. Oh, not long enough to sustain a relationship. No. I feel like you need to build in more time, more than seven days. Yeah.

Yeah. But so what happens is Betty leaves the house one day, and when she comes back, she finds Gary in bed with three women. And she freaks out and is like, what the fuck is going on? And then he's like, get in here, you old nut. Get in here, Betty. You old stick in the mud, and she's horrified, of course, and baffled. And so then that's when the mass comes off, and he starts to beat her.

He becomes incredibly violent at all turns. And he basically just starts constantly bringing home sex workers and mentally challenged women to have sex with. And she's just like, I'm in the fucking nightmare world and a different country. And she doesn't know anybody but him and his friends. So she eventually turns to the Filipino community in Philadelphia and is just like, can someone please help me? Because I'm basically abandoned here with this lunatic.

And so the people that she meets there say, you have to leave, and you just have to leave and don't come back. And they kind of set up a plan for her. And so she one day tells Gary, well, she tries to confront him to say that she's had enough. This is not the life that he had promised her. And he beats the shit out of her and raves her. So four days after that, she says, I'm going to go out shopping super quick. I'll be right back.

And she fucking bails and doesn't come back. Yeah. Right. And then she went into some Philadelphia, Filipino American underground and they dug and took care of her. And she never saw her again. Yeah. Yeah.

Pretty cool. Good job. That's right. So remember that if you're ever in trouble. Okay. So two weeks later, the cops come and pick up Gary for spousal rape, for domestic abuse, for indecent assault, and for involuntary deviant sexual intercourse. Unfortunately, the parole period for the last sexual offenses that he had been in jail for

had ended the day before. Yes. So Betty doesn't show up in court to testify against him. And so all the charges are dropped. And which is so insane that you're like, you're a victim, and it's not going to happen unless you come and fucking reopen all the wounds you're working to get past. Right. Like, can't they just use hearsay?

No, I was always saying that. I was like, it doesn't work. It's not going to work, no. Yeah, but it makes it so hard. Okay. So this was basically a turning point in Gary Hyden's life where her leaving him and the lack of control that he had over her for doing that kind of set him off in a major way. So this is 1986, it's Thanksgiving, and he goes out to find a sex worker.

And that same night, Josephina Rivera had gone out to try to make some money so she could buy her family Thanksgiving dinner. And so she's out, it's raining, it's cold night, and a Cadillac pulls up and makes her an offer, she gets in, and it's Gary, and he drives her to 3520 North Marshall Street. And when they pull into the driveway, she sees the Rolls Royces and she sees fancy cars and she's like, this is probably, I'm going to get everything done and get out. So she feels hopeful, she's like, okay, this is going to be good, and I'm going to get my money and be able to get out of here.

So when they go up to his front door, he pulls out this really weird looking key. And what it is, is half a key. And she asks him what the deal is, and he says, the other half of the key is already in the lock, so I'm the only person that can open this door, because he's the only person that has the other half of the key. Right? You're standing there and you're just like, okay, well, okay, we'll see what happens. So yeah.

So they go into his house, they go upstairs, they have sex, and when she is getting dressed again, and she thinks she's about to leave, he comes up from behind, starts choking her, almost chokes her out, she's begging him to stop, and he says, fine, get down on her knees, put your hands behind your back. So he handcuffs her wrists behind her back, and then he walks her down into his basement. Yeah. I wish we had a picture, sometimes we have visuals, dying to see what he looks like. Give me your arm so I can pinch it.

There's a picture of this basement, and it's not good, it's not finished, he doesn't have any shelving, it's not swept, it's the creepiest looking basement in the world, there's a dirty mattress on the ground, and there's some plywood, the concrete on one side of the basement has been pulled up and there's plywood on the ground. So he, and there's a bunch of exposed pipes and stuff, he takes her and chains her to these exposed pipes, he sits her on the mattress, so she's chained to these pipes behind her, then he puts his head in her lap and goes to sleep. Can you imagine?

This is not how I expected this to go, and it's almost creepier. Yes. Yeah, because he's just chilling out. So she then, of course, eventually also kind of nods off, when she wakes up he's gone, she's still chained to the wall and she looks around and she sees that the plywood has been moved and there is a small pit in the center of the room. So Gary comes back with some crackers and water, and he explains he's got a plan, and his plan is that he's going to get 10 women pregnant so he can start his own family.

Oh my God. You know how you do, down in a basement, they say it's the most romantic room in the house, don't they? Yep, those unfinished basements, the ladies love them. Okay, he leaves again, Josephina realizes she's fucked, this is crazy, this is bad, and she has to get out of there. So she starts working on her handcuffs and she somehow is able to loosen some kind of a tie that she has, I'm not exactly sure how, but she basically is able to reach up and

push open the basement window and lift herself up and she starts screaming out of it. And she screams and screams and screams and nobody hears her, except Gary. So Gary comes down and he unchanged her from the wall and he says, you're not ever going to get out of here, so stop trying, and then he puts her in the pit. And it's barely big enough to hold a person, she's all super smashed up in there and he puts the plywood on top of her and then he puts like bags of soil on top of the plywood so she's totally weighted down and she's totally stuck in there. And then as he leaves the basement, he turns it on like the hard rock station and turns

the radio all the way up. So even if she screams, no one's going to be able to hear her over the music. Fuck. Yes. All right. So she's down in there and then when she wakes up, she wakes up to the sound of a woman speaking and the sound of chains. And what's happened is Gary lets her out and she stands up and she's all cramped up from

being down that fucking pit and she sees that Gary has a half-naked, mentally challenged woman with him and he's basically brought another woman down into this basement. And he introduces them because he is nothing if not a mannered person. Her name's Sandy and he leaves and so Sandy tells Josephina, her name is Sandra Lindsay, and that she met Gary at the Elwin Institute for the retarded. So when he was going there, he was basically going there and meeting patients and making them believe that he was their friend and grooming them to basically eventually be molested by him and convince them that he was their boyfriend so he could have complete control

over them. So they are chained to the wall together and the next morning, they're eating breakfast and, which is crackers, and they hear a knock at the front door of the house and it turns out that Sandy's sister and her cousins are looking for her because when she didn't come home the night before, they knew it was bad and so they're out on the street. They had found a friend of Sandy's named Tony that they knew she hung out with a lot and they went to Tony and they were like, who else do you know that Sandy knows? And they were like, we know this guy named Gary.

She's the first girl? Sorry. Sandy was the second girl. Okay, got it. Josephina is the first girl. Got it. And Josephina is, well, you'll see, she's in it the whole time and it's pretty amazing. So Sandy, so Tony gives Sandy's cousins and sister Gary's address and they come and knock

on the door, but Gary just doesn't answer it. And then when they leave, he comes downstairs and he has Sandy write two letters to her mother saying, I'm fine, I ran away, don't worry about me, I'll get ahold of you later. So then he tells the girls that his plan is he's going to drive into New York and send the letters from New York so they see that the postmark is from New York and they believe that she ran away. Well, of course, when Sandy's mother gets these letters, she's like, no, she's never written a letter like this in her life.

This is not, this is, there's something even more wrong here, but they take it to the police and the police will not listen. They're like, this is a runaway. She's an adult. It's fine. Don't, you know, this is just somebody that didn't want to live with you anymore. She's run away. They can't get the police to help.

These are all also, I guess I should say, the, all these people are black except for Gary Heidnick. So I think that also probably had a big, a big part of it was their dis, outhanded dismissal of like, oh, well, don't worry about them. You know, they're, they're doing what they want. A lot of people accused of being prostitutes when they're not or sex workers when they're not really, really shitty treatment. Okay.

So, so, all right. That was that whole page. I hand wrote this. Okay. She does that. Thanks. Yeah. That's all I wanted.

A little bit of credit for my handwriting. Okay. So now it's three days before Christmas and Gary picks up a girl named Lisa Thomas as she's walking to her friend's house. She's 19 years old. She is not a sex worker. She's not mentally challenged, but she is impressed by his car and his generosity. He offers to take her to dinner.

He's very sweet to her. Once she's in the car, she found, she finds that he's very charming and he tries to get her to go to Atlantic city with him and she said, I can't. I don't even have good clothes on. He pulls out a $50 bill and says, you can go buy some new clothes right now. And so she gets caught up in, you know, this guy, you know, treating her so well. And at one point he says, come back to my house, we'll drink some wine and watch movies. So they do that.

And while there, she drinks a bunch of wine and falls asleep on his couch. When she wakes up, he's raping her. When he finishes, she gets up and is putting her clothes on and he does the thing where he strangles her from behind and gets her on her knees and then handcuffs her. So then he brings her down into the basement. And he takes the plywood and Lisa, he, he pulls the plywood off the pit and Lisa sees that Josephina and Sandy are down in the pit, which I can't, when I was reading that part of just like, can you fucking imagine that like, there's people, this basement's creepy

enough. And then it's like, oh yeah, you guys move, there's a bunch of people down here and they haven't been able to get out. Oh no. All right. A few days later, he comes home with Deborah Dudley. Now Deborah Dudley, I believe is mentally challenged, but she fights him the entire time she's there.

So she, she starts, yeah. So here's the thing though, he has it so, and he eventually starts manipulating all of them. So if Deborah Dudley is fighting with him, he beats her and then he'll beat the other girls for her having fought him. So then they start trying to fight her to get her to stop fighting him because everybody's getting beaten. He takes a big like two by four and beats the shit out of all of them and they have to

watch it. Then he starts, he makes them have sex with each other and he just stands there and watches. So it's just this degradation and this beating and mindfuck and mindfucking so that they are all basically trying to get him to treat them better. And so it's that thing of he'll pick one to not beat and he'll be like, I'll leave you with the stick. I'm leaving. You're in charge.

If anyone misbehaves, you beat them. Then when he would come back, if nobody had been beaten, they'd all get beaten because somebody should have been beaten while he was, it's all that kind of shit's fucked up happening stuff down there. Some fucked up happening stuff is what it's called in the textbooks. All right, so on two weeks later after that, he brings 18 year old sex worker Jacqueline Haskins into the basement and then on January 18th, Sandra gets caught, the second girl, she gets caught trying to move the plywood off the pit because they're down.

He puts them in the pit all together. So he's dug it out a little bit. It's getting bigger and bigger. He comes down and digs it, makes them watch him dig it while they eat crackers or whatever. Sometimes he'll bring them really nice food. Like he one day brings them just a huge Chinese food meal and champagne. So it's just like or it's just or nothing. You know, totally mind fucking them.

So Sandra gets caught trying to move the plywood off and so Gary hangs her by the wrist and like one handcuff from the ceiling pipe and he leaves her there for a couple of days. So the other girls are like, she's getting sick. There's something wrong with her. You have to take her down. And he's like, no, she's faking. I'm not going to fall for it. He's of course getting increasingly paranoid.

He believes they're all plotting against him at all times. He's constantly ready for them to try to attack him. And he did this is super, super fucked up. He would do this thing where he would, when he thought that there was a chance that they were plotting against him, he would chain them up and then he would try to shove a screwdriver in their ears because he thought if they were deaf that they couldn't plan anything against them. Oh no.

Should we take a quick break? I can sing some songs from Oliver if you want me to. I was in it when I was 10. Do you know the words to the Franklin musical? But you don't. I do. Yeah, sing a little Franklin for us. I know.

I'm Franklin, the only black boy in this whole downtown. What the fuck is going on is this Northern California? Okay, Gary believes that Sandra is pregnant and that's why he is, I don't know, she gets sickly. She's lethargic. She has a fever. She starts throwing up. He says the only reason she's throwing up is because she's pregnant.

Eventually she loses consciousness. When he comes back, the girls are like, you have to let her down. He lets her down and she just drops to the ground and he kicks her into the pit. When he kicks her into the pit, all the other girls realize now she's dead. No. Yeah. This is so horrifying. It's really bad, right?

Yeah. Now that's the point, right? Yeah. Okay. No, no. Nobody's surprised except for the one person who was like, my friend can't come. Do you want to come? I've never heard of a podcast.

Oh, come. Oh, also my little cousin is here. Yeah. She's like the rest of my family is like really nice, normal people and she's never heard the podcast and she's going to be like, mom, Georgia's cousin, I think there's something wrong with Georgia. Do you think she's going to tell on you? She's going to rat you out?

Yeah. Yeah. My friend Molly's here and she brought her mom. Oh my God. She had no idea what was going on. Poor baby. Sorry. Oh, you know what?

I once did called Jillian's mom when she was in high school and I was like, she's got some slutty pictures up on Facebook. You should say something. So to get back at me. That's right. She's going to fucking. Sorry, Jillian. That was me.

Yeah. But you're too young. Yeah. For cleavage. I like that you knocked her out for that. Oh, fuck yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Save it for college. Yeah. Turn the page. Sorry. No, no. I'm interrupting. Please don't be.

I think we needed it. So basically, he takes the body upstairs and I mean, can we just, can it get worse? Yes, it can. The girls are all down in the pit together and then they hear a power saw. She didn't do it, girl. So in the next couple of days, they start to smell a terrible smell, of course. Not just them down in the basement, but the whole fucking neighborhood. And so the neighbors end up calling the police.

And when a patrolman goes by the house, he says, oh, I just burned a roast. And the patrolman's like, well, high five, buddy, I'll talk to you later and he leaves. Yeah. So the paranoia is getting worse. Deborah Dudley is continuing to defy him. So now he goes into a whole new level where he's starting to, because they're all wearing chains and the chains are connected to each other. So he strips an extension cord, he strips off the insulation and starts electrocuting

the chains. Yeah. It gets really bad. And when the next time Deborah Dudley defies him, he takes her upstairs. And when she comes back down, she's like scared out of her mind. And the girls finally get her to say what is going on. And he took her up into the kitchen and then he took a lid off the pot. No, no, no, no.

She looked inside and Sandra's head was inside the pot. No, no, no, no. Yes. We're doing this. Stay with me. You're not fucking leave me at this point. We all agreed that we were doing this. God damn it.

All right. So eventually, basically, Deborah Dudley loses her shit and is like, what the fuck, you know, whatever. And so he gets so mad at her because she's fighting him so hard. He puts her in the pit and he puts water in it. And then electrocutes her and he ends up killing her in that pit. Okay. So now Josephina, who this whole time has been trying to make a plan, she keeps, she,

the whole time she's like, okay, I'm going to stay on this guy's good side. So when it would be the thing of like, you get the stick and you have to beat the girls, she would play along with him just enough so that he would believe her because she was like, I have to win his trust. That's the only way I'm going to get out of here and anyone's going to get out of here because this guy's fucking out of his mind. So she's trying to play him like the entire time that way. So once he kills the second girl, Deborah, she's like, okay, like I have to, you know,

I have to really do something. So she, she's really trying to like pretend that, you know, like play the wife part, really kiss his ass, really like, really act like she hates the girls and wants to do anything against them for him. So finally, she wants, once Debbie dies, he makes just a phenocyanin paper that says, I killed Debbie, I'm responsible for her death and makes her sign it. And then once she signs that, he believes that he has her completely under control because if she goes to the police, she's the one that's going to get arrested for that crime.

Come on. So she's like, sounds good to me. Yeah. What a great plan, Gary. Super smart. I bet that's what's going to happen. So she signs that paper and then on March 24th, she convinces him to let her leave and visit her family and, and in return for doing that, she promises that she'll bring him back a

new girl. Whoa. Yeah. And so he's like, that sounds great. Plus I have the paper you signed. So this is a lock. This is a lock. Yeah.

Everything's awesome. He drops her off at her apartment and says, I'll wait for you at the gas station. She runs up into her apartment, her boyfriend's sitting there. She's been missing for four fucking months, months, months. She runs in. She's screaming. She's like, I've got to change up in a basement, this fucking lunatic or whatever. And the boyfriend's like, you're crazy.

Are you on drugs? Shut up. Swear to God. Swear to God. She couldn't look like, nor like herself. No, she probably didn't look great. But she ends up showing him all of her scars and her, like the huge wounds where the chains have been.

And he's like, oh shit. I hope she broke up with him after or maybe their love got even deeper and stronger. And he was like, I'll never doubt you again, baby. We don't know. What we do know is that he called the cops. When the cops show up, they're like, you're crazy and yelling. And then she's like, how about you take a look at these huge gouge marks everywhere on my body?

And they were like, holy shit. And so they go to the gas station, Gary's just chilling out in his Cadillac, waiting for his lady to come back and they arrest him. And then two officers go to the house. Yeah. So of course they can't get into the magical front door. That did work. He was right about that.

Oh my God. I mean, it's kind of a great idea. It's pretty amazing. I've never thought about before. Fuck. Although, I mean, someone could just take the half key. Yeah, but they'd have to get it off of him first. Yeah, I mean, he's a punch in the face.

We'll talk about that later. So just before 5 a.m. on March 27th, 1987, the police arrive at Gary's house. They break down that front door and they go down into the basement just like Josephina said they needed to. And down in the basement, they find Jacqueline Askins. They find Lisa Thomas. They're both naked and chained to the ceiling pipe. They free them.

And then Lisa points to the plywood and, oh, sorry, I skipped a part, he had gotten another girl, another sex worker named Agnes. Agnes was in the pit, so they pulled the plywood off and she was down in the water in the pit. And then they go into the kitchen. Uh-uh. Stay out of the kitchen. I mean, no, they got to go. That's the thing, you got to go in the kitchen.

In the kitchen, they find what looks like human ribs in the oven. And when they open the freezer, they find a human forearm. What? Yes. So basically, he's arrested, he is tried and convicted on 18 charges, two counts of first degree murder, five counts of rape, six counts of kidnapping, four counts of aggravated assault. He tried to claim that Josephina was his accomplice and this amazing judge, I believe her name

was Judge Abraham, when he tried to argue that, you have to read about the story. His defense lawyer is such a scumbag. Everything he says is the grossest thing you've ever read. And so one of his, his attempts at a defense was that it was Josephina's idea. And that he had tried to hit Josephina was his accomplice. And the judge was like, because he was trying to plead insanity, not guilty by the reason of insanity. And the judge was like, well, then if you were smart enough to get an accomplice, you're

not insane. And then they're like, oh, no, no, then she's not. Okay. Oh my God. Forget that. Cancel that. Cancel that order. Cancel, cancel.

So, yeah, it's so insane. Oh, and then the final blow against the defense and by the prosecution is just so amazing. Is they call Robert Kerpatrick to the stand and that's Gary Hydenick's broker at Merrill Lynch. What? Uh-huh. His sock broker. Yep.

And they get that sock broker on the stand. And that guy says, he testifies that Gary was an astute investor who knew exactly what he was doing. Oh, shit. So there goes the insanity defense. Fuck yeah. That's right. He gets convicted.

He's sentenced to death. And on July 6, 1999, he's executed by lethal injection and I mean, I kind of like this. No one came to claim the body or like, no thanks. And if any of that sounded familiar to you, Gary Hydenick's crimes and the basement scene was the inspiration for Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lands. That's where that came from. I just gave myself chills. That was weird.

Isn't that crazy? Yeah. As soon as you were like basement pit, loud music, fucking Mr. I got your dog. I'd fuck me the whole nine yards. Catherine Martin, you're safe. Remember? I forgot your dog. I got a water.

Your dog. Are we? This isn't proper. It's not. It's not right. Anything we're doing. No. No.

So that's the story of Gary Hydenick. Philadelphia. Yes. That's your guy. Excellent. Excellent. So awful. So awful.

So bad. Horrible. Disgusting. Well, now that's my turn, I'm going to put my shoes back on first because I just feel creepy. Oh, you need some shoes? Feel creepy. Do you feel like your feet feel hot with the eyes on your feet?

Well, just knowing that these could easily go on wiki feet, these photos where there already are photos of my feet. No. What? Yep. Do you guys know about wiki feet? You know how if you put an actor or an actress, usually just an actress, an actress's name into Google, if you put the name in, one of the things that will come up underneath is

that person's name. So it's like Debra Messing, and one of the first things that will come up underneath is the suggestion is Debra Messing feet. Oh, no. I didn't know that. There's so many foot fetishists out there. Well, there's a Wikipedia for feet, and if Debra Messing was at the beach, it'll just be like a close-up of the photo of her feet.

And then they grade them, and they comment on them, and like, great toes, or she needs a manicure, but otherwise I like her arch. Oh, my fucking kidding you. Wow. So check that out when you get home. I better stay covered up for the rest of my life, because I have Fred Flintstone feet like you would not believe. I'm dying to look you up on that right now.

Let's get it up on, though. It simply cannot be. All right, well, my murder, there's only one person that gets murdered, so it's a little more lighthearted. Okay. Nice. We'll end on an upnote. Glad we're ending on this one.

All right. This is the story of the only known case of homicide committed by an Amish man, Edward Gendrich. Say that second part again? Edward Gendrich. Oh. Edward Gendrich? Gendrich.

Got it. Gendrich. Mm-hmm. And he's not Jewish. Okay. He's Amish. Amish. Amish.

He's an Amish man. Yeah. Okay. So picture an Amish guy. Okay. Kind of hot. Just saying. Kind of a Viggo Mortensen in witness situation.

Yeah. Did you see me pause up here? Because I was like, you shouldn't say that. Then I said it anyways. Just say it. Got to. Okay, he is born on August 18th, 1963 in an Amish family from a Rockdale township, Crawford County, Pennsylvania.

He was said to have been somewhat of a rebel in the Amish way of life from an early age. What? He chewed gum. I don't know. What's a rebel? He kicked his rock one time. He didn't work for three hours one day. He put brown sugar on his oatmeal.

Whoa. Edward is rock and roll. God, I'm so into Edward. He wears his hat and a skew. His family reasoned that. He was a rebel. He was kind of crazy. Like, you know, wild.

And his family was like, well, if we get an unwaveringly faithful woman to marry him, she'll be a good influence and so they married him off. December 2nd, 1986, he's married to an Amish woman named Katie and people in their community are like, Katie, don't do that. They were like, a bunch of people are like, I don't fucking believe in this. Which is like, you have to get married. And they were still like. Because they thought he was a creep?

I think that they were worried. Yes. Okay. They were apprehensive. That's not my word. I don't say that. They had three kids, Danny, Enos, and Mary, and he was starting to show signs of behavioral changes after the marriage and they became more and more noticeable by July of 1988.

He lost a ton of weight, became super depressed, and he spent a lot of time in the wood shop. And he got more and more interested in the machinery of the Amish people, but also with interacting with non-Amish people. Everyone's known as the English. Did you know that? No. Like everyone here is the English, unless you're Amish. Oh my God, is there someone Amish here?

They're like, my first day of Rumspringer, I'm going to go to a murder podcast. Someone, there's like a group of kids that are having the most awesome Rumsbreeder right now. They're just fucking like, we're going to go from a barn to a murder podcast. And they were like, shit, she's really our only hometown murder. Oh, that's what I was going to do. Okay. So while he was working in the wood shop, meeting English people, he befriended a non-Amish

man named David Lindsay who told him that unless he renounced his Amish faith and became a born-again Christian, which he was, he would go to hell. Ugh, I dated one of those. Uh-uh. I swear to God. That he was like, in college, the first guy I dated tricked me. He was, we called him the secret born-again Christian because he was in the theater department and he never talked about religion at all until he and I started dating, dating.

And he was like, Karen, I just need you to say these seven words. I was like, I'm already Catholic. Like, I think Jesus has got his eye on me. I don't need your bullshit. Wow. Yeah. Did you dump him? No, he dumped me.

Man, I would have made it my mission to corrupt him and then be like, okay, but bye. Wish I could have. I was like, huh, what? The Lord who? Dude, dude, dude. Okay. Christian. Then, oh, and also that he would go to hell and that led him to believe he was being

confined and held captive by his wife, Katie. So Edward's mental state, it continues to deteriorate. He begins hallucinating and has a psychotic break that scared his entire community. I bet. Seriously. He starts ripping his hair out, claiming that it's on fire. His hair? His hair.

Maybe that's what's happening with my hair. Oh, we all forgot to mention your hair is on fire. Why wouldn't you tell me? Just a very small, smoldering fire in the bed. Doesn't look that bad. We love it. I mean, it's kind of cute. But it was your look.

That's the new look. Smoldering. A fire. Sorry. Hair fires. Okay. So Katie found her husband in their bedroom, spitting at the ceiling and mumbling to himself. And she was like.

Sorry. Isn't spitting at the ceiling spitting at yourself? Yes. That is a good, that is a good point unless he was really good at spitting. Yeah. And she'd go pfft thing out the side. No. No.

Still wouldn't work. Okay. And at that point she was like, that's it. Can't. She couldn't. That was the limit. And limit. She's like, pull your hair.

That's on fire. You're the devil. Yes. Spitting on the fucking ceiling. Get out. And then they do this thing that almost people don't fucking do. She's like, call 911. This is.

Wow. She's like, I can't with this anymore. How do they do that? They light a candle, put it on a cow's back, push it into the road. Send the 911 cow. Listen, it's fucked. We are screwed. I would say that we're going to get a lot of mean emails, but no one's listening to

this. I can't say shit to us. Oh, wow. I feel free for the first time on this podcast. I feel so free. I can talk shit on whoever I want. Steven, don't cut this. Steven.

Leave it in and turn it up loud. 911. Mesh people. It was a big deal. Eventually, Edward gets treated at a psychiatric hospital in Jamestown, New York, where he's diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. And he's given medication, of course, and it started to help his hallucinations. But when he got home, he was like, this is putting me in a zombie state, and he didn't

like it. And he did what everyone does at some point in their medication therapy is he's like, I'm good. Quit. Yeah. You know? Don't do that. I mean, if you want to get off, just don't quit.

We're both doctors. We should have said that at the beginning of this. Oh, my God. Podcast. We should have said it. We're medical doctors. But his wife was encouraging him to stop as well because she was a traditional Amish person and she, you know, wanted, she just wanted things to be better.

Yeah. She, okay. But his state of mind continued to decrease. He started saying he was the devil. And then on March 19, 1933, Katie and Edward, what year? What did I say? 33. Nope.

That is not right. He went back in time in the Amish time machine, which is a pile of hay. It isn't. Died head first. That isn't right. And that's not what I wrote. Oh. It's 1993.

Great. Okay. So Edward and Katie are having an argument and she starts getting worried about it and his temper and she sends her six year old son to run and get help. But the two younger kids stay behind. At that point, he runs and gets his uncle. His uncle goes back to the house and by then Katie was long dead. It started that he punched Katie in the face, knocking her to the ground.

Then he beat her to death. Oh my God. Sorry. He had, with his boots, he stomped on her skull until it was left unrecognizable. And then it gets worse. Oh. So she's dead. He removes all her internal organs.

Oh shit. Places them in a neat pile. How? Karen's calling bullshit on this. No fucking way. Show me a neat pile of large intestines. I'll give you $25. That's bullshit.

I'm sorry not to attack you. No. I fucking love it. No. I'm glad that you said that. Okay. Because I hadn't thought of it. As soon as you said it, I was like, oh yeah.

Oh. No. Someone just say that to make it seem even worse. Do, do, do, do. Okay. So. And he did all this while his two young children were in the house. Oh.

And then he said for some reason later that for some reason he thought they could save her. So he was like trying to keep her organs to like in a clean pile to like save her later. So he was just totally psychotic break, not in the real world in any way. Yes. So, so they run him call 911 and they found, the EMTs arrived and found a scene so horrific that one of the EMTs immediately left to vomit. Yeah.

And Edward was gone and so were the kids. But don't worry. They found him later that day walking around country road with his kids and the kids were fine. Okay. Edward was arrested. Pleads insanity. The defense argues that Edward was affected by the fumes he inhaled accidentally in the

house of the wood place, the wood house, the work room. What do you call it? The wood room. The wood room. It doesn't sound right. The work wood. The wood. Oh.

The wood work room. The woodworking room. The woodworking room. There it is. Steven. Steven, speed that whole part up. Play the whole thing backwards. So they're saying like he was in an unventilated room where they were using solvents all the

time and he went out of his mind because of that. But it sounded like a lot of stuff was saying that before that he was, you know, to gum. It was almost like the perfect storm. The perfect storm. Yeah. There was already stuff happening. Right. Okay.

So the Amish community shuns him at this point, which is like the severest sin is straying from the Amish ways without repenting. So he's punished with excommunication, which is like fucking huge. While in prison, Edward says he starts following a new religion and signs a document saying he's an evangelical Christian. So maybe he met your ex-boyfriend. Yeah. He's probably good friends with him.

So, okay. My dumb one week college boyfriend pops up from the side. I just need you to say seven words, Edward. I don't know where, oh, he's tried. He's found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, but mentally ill, quote. And he's sentenced to a term of two to five and a half years. Was this Amish court? Which means he was eligible for parole by 1995.

He's denied his first bid, but he is granted his second. So sorry, because it was not guilty by reason of insanity, but they don't put him in a mental hospital. They put him in a state correctional institute. So I don't know. It doesn't sound like it. Maybe there's a mentally ill ward. Let's pretend.

So after five years in 1998, he gets released, he's 34. He's released, mentally ill. He moves into a mental health facility in Michigan and he also lived in Indiana before returning to the Brown Hill Amish community in February 2007. And then they put him in like a thing until he ill Amish people. I guess there's like one room somewhere with all the... It's probably kind of fun. No, no, no, no, no, no.

They killed people. Sorry, he killed people. It's hard not to just try to imagine things about Amish people. It's mysterious and there's lots of barns. Yeah. Interesting. And it's hard on a podcast not to say the first thing that pops into your mind and then regret it.

Right. It's kind of what we do. Yeah. Kind of our jam. You just roll the dice and help your... You don't say anything stupid, but it doesn't work. So it's quiet like when people are like, oh, I don't want to tell her she's saying exactly what she does.

Oh, no. Like, I just don't want to say anything stupid and everyone's like, do you listen to the podcast? You don't know where Delaware is. We all know. Oh, they're right over there. You don't know, but 25% and a quarter are the same thing. Hey, we live, we learn just like Elana's morrissette said one time.

Okay. So he'd been out of prison for 18 years and he's living on his attorney's property in Cambridge Springs, Pennsylvania, which is like, oh, it's so like sweet, you know? Even though like the attorney was like, oh, I know he killed her, but he's nowhere to go. He's mentally ill. So he's living there for about a year when at 44 years old he goes out to the horse barn and in the morning and his husband and wife attorney are like, where is he and the wife

goes? Finds him. He hung himself. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I know it's, uh, wow. He had written the only suicide note he left was a message in a dot on top of a dust in dust on top of a bucket that read forgive me please.

That's so Amish. He's like, I can't use a pencil paper. So I have to write on a bucket. That's part of the rules. Fuck. Yeah. Um, so the attorney said his community completely deserted him. They shunned him.

They kept him from rejoining his family, which I guess the family, his immediate family did want to like take care of him and take him back. And they wouldn't let him. They wouldn't let him take him back. Um, he was an awfully good person and he could have helped his community a lot. I don't know about that one. Hey, I mean, here's the thing. Listen.

Listen. Listen. Look and listen. Despite all that, he was allowed to be buried in Amish cemetery with an Amish, um, headstone cemetery. No, celebration. Funeral. Yeah.

But like the organ, you know, the, you know what I mean? No, I don't. Okay. Like an Amish burial, like they said the prayers. Are there prayers? Phenomenon. I think so. Okay.

It's not what they're guessing. Oh, it's called a butter churn and the journey said that that's all he would have wanted. So it was the only, as far as I could tell, at least at the time, it was the only known case of a homicide committed by an Amish man. I bet there's other ones and they just won't tell us about it. Fair enough. Right? Yeah.

That was amazing. I was Edward Gingrich. You got it. Thank you. Thank you. There's the lights come up and there's just a row of hats in the back. Oh my God. We heard what you said about us.

Oh my God. I don't know. What's the accent? That was weird. Oh my God. That's not the accent. And it's called a ceremony. Georgia.

Oh, someone did yell ceremony. Okay. That's what I meant. Ceremony. You had CE, right? I did. I shouldn't keep drinking this coffee. Do it.

Chug it. Chug it. Chug it. Cold. Do we have time for a... I think we do. Do you think we can... Yeah.

Let's do it. To the one mom out here, this is when we ask one of your fellow audience members to come up and tell us their hometown murder. No. I let Karen... You're Amish. We'd love to see you. That's for sure. I don't think.

Wow. It goes back so far. There's so many empty seats. Let's get that arm in the back on the right. Where? Yeah. And there's... Somebody hold the guy.

Two arms. Wait. Oh, that lady with the shoes on? Yeah. Okay. Do you ever... There's empty seats. Do you ever think, oh, what did they fight about on their way here and turn around?

I want... You don't want to do the dishes. We're going home. Man. They had a big fight. Yep. That's so, like, intense. Dear Karen and Georgia, we broke up on the way.

I hope you're happy. Okay. Vince is going to come get you. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't even tell you anything about it. I don't know. There's two people. Uh-oh.

I think you can both. Oh, my God. What if you both fist fight right now? Last man standing or a woman? I've been... Uh-oh. Yes. Do it.

I feel like neither of you look crazy, so... Come on. You can go this way. Go over this young lady. Yeah, you have to walk down that way. And you have to slide your butt across people's laps. Do it. This was a case of random gesturing into the audience gone wrong.

That's right. Not right. It's very hard to be accurate in these situations. Sometimes it goes... Can we get the lights down or they're going to freak out when... They don't want to look at you. It's real scary to see all of you, especially you up there. You guys are rallying.

You guys are the scariest of all. Hi, guys. What the fuck? What's your name? Andrew. Hi, Andrew. What are you doing on stage? Hi.

Hi. What the fuck? What are you... What? Was that the sound guy? What was that? There's just some dude wandering around back there. Yes, it was the sound guy.

Hi. What's your name? Bob. Don't be mad at me, Bob. Bob. Bob. Bob. Thank you.

Who wants to go first? Girls first. Girls first. Girls first. Do you stand back there? Andrew. Oh, it is really bright up here. I know.

What's your name? My name is Alana. I'm here with my friend, Elena, and we actually became friends because of this show. Probably the second time we talked to each other, we told each other that we liked the show and bought tickets. Oh, my God. I love it. Oh, my God.

I love it. Very nice to be up here. I'm shaking a little bit. Sorry. I actually took my shoes off to wave. I just saw that. So they're kind of wonky right now. We're a working team.

We're twins. You had to slide them back on real fast. Justina, you don't seem nervous, so don't worry about it. Yeah. Good. Let's see the shake. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got to see them.

Well... Look, me too, though. So my hometown earner is also... It's like a mixture between a... I survived. Yeah. And murder. Yeah.

It's good. It's good. It's one of the faves. Those are opposites, though. Well... I'll trust you. So... I'm from Delaware.

Oh! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Born and raised. I grew up in Newark, live in Wilmington now. So... All right. Thank you. Thank you very much.

You're not nervous. I can't shake. No. I work in politics, so... Oh. I'm good. Son of a... Son of a...

Yeah. ...in a way. Yeah. Murder politics. So I grew up in a very suburban neighborhood in Newark, Delaware. Home of the University of Delaware. Stop naming cities and tell the story. I like it.

Shit. I like it. It's good. OK. We got another story to hear. Sorry, pal. We're in there. It's not that long.

OK. So... There was... So the neighborhood that I grew up in, very nice neighborhood. nothing happened. Kind of just like a sleepy neighborhood. We like played all the time outside and all that kind of shit. So one day there was this woman in like the front of the neighborhood. So like you could see the house from the main road that would go by. So she was like out tending to her rose garden. That's important. And so she's like

sitting there and I guess somebody drove by and he worked at the local Chrysler plant which went out of business, which was a big deal for Newark. And he saw what he liked. And he was like, oh, okay, I'm gonna go check that out. Roses. Yes, he liked the roses. He doesn't, right? So he, I wish I could show you a picture, but it's fine. Use your words. Use your words. Okay. So he drove to the front of the house, which was kind of like the side of the house because of the way that the neighborhood was set up. And he, like nobody knows, there was like a bus stop right there. Like it was a beautiful day. Everybody was out. Nobody saw him. And he went into the house because nobody locked their doors. It

was the 90s. It was probably 98. I think it was four. So he went into the house and he waited for her to come in. But she didn't come in first. Her husband came in and he shot him. Wait, who shot who? The bad guy shot the good guy. Why would the husband shoot the bad guy? Wouldn't that be the purpose? Because he saw the bad guy in his house. That's like not even murder. That's like defense, you know? Just saying. So, um, Alana. Alana. So I guess the woman's name is Debbie. So Debbie didn't hear the gunshot, I guess. So after she was done tending to her roses, she came in the house and there was this man standing there and he fucking kidnapped her, put her in the back of his car and drove her to his

house like five miles away and tied her up and just like repeatedly raped her over the course of several days. And she was, she like befriended him and like made her trust him and was like, he would like go to work for the day. While this woman is just like tied up in his house because he's fucking horrible. Um, and then he would just come home and rape her. So one day before he went to work, she was like, you know what, these ropes are like really hurting my wrists. Um, do you think you could loosen them or something? So he loosened them because he trusted her and she managed to like get out of the room that she was in because he was not as smart as Gary. He did not keep her in the basement with chains.

So, um, she managed to call 911 and like, I mean, they came and got her and everything was fine. She lived. So there was the eye survived. Yes. But the best part of the story is that, um, well actually there are two really good parts. My parents were in New Orleans at the time and this was like national news. Like people were talking about the neighborhood I grew up in was called Academy Hill. Um, and so they were calling it Academy kill or murder hill and in New Orleans and my parents were like, holy fucking shit. I live there. Um, so my grandparents had come to take care of us and I distinctly remember riding my tricycle like towards the house and my grandmother chasing after me. Um, cause like at that point

they still hadn't found the woman and like they're fucking cops everywhere. Um, so that was one good part. Another good part is like probably six years ago I was watching I survived. It was the first time I ever watched it and they like in that show, they kind of show you like a nice little clip rather than, and it's like, it's nice. It's like a breeze flowing right? So it's not cheesy or anything. And so they show this clip of these rose bushes in front of the house and I was like, why does that look so fucking familiar? And like the neighborhood I lived in, there were only like three different houses and they just like made a billion of them. Um, so like I, it ended up being Debbie and it was really

fucking creepy. And she actually has an episode of I survived. She has an episode of I survived and it's really good. I don't remember which one it is, it's been forever since I've watched it. That's amazing. I probably should have watched it before I did this, but I did not think this was gonna happen. You did good. Yeah.

Wow. Thanks so much. Good job. Thank you. It's really good. Well done. Thank you. Nice to meet you too. Thanks for being here. Go ahead and take that mic from her. Thank you.

Alright, you come over. Thank you. I don't take it. I have to give it to Bob. Should I go down or can I stand here? Yeah, you can. Get in here. How have you been?

With Andrew? Yeah. Hi, Andrew. How's it going? Hi. Thanks for being here. It's so surreal right now. You have to go, isn't it?

Why? You guys are real people. I know. It's not weird. Look at that on it. Look at that on it. Hi guys. They're all watching us. Oh man.

So, which of us? Do you know any songs from Franklin? You know what's funny? I had never heard of Hamilton and like I'm a teacher so all the other teachers are like, you never heard of Hamilton? But you know now, right? Yeah. Okay.

Before we start, I just want to know that the audience is going to vote on the best story and that the person who is going to get, the person who gets murdered, right? Oh, good idea. That's right. My story is horrible. Oh good. Okay. My story is actually about a co-worker that I had at one of my first jobs.

So, of course a lot of you guys know in here the most wonderful place in the world, Christmas Tree Shop. What is it? I'm from Connecticut and they have a store called Christmas Tree Shop and it just sells like all the bullshit that you can't find anywhere else. Year round? If you want like a flamingo made out of old tin cans, it's like painted all nice by like Chinese slaves.

Oh my god. That's exactly what I wanted. Exactly. Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's George's dream story. It's right next to the dog food and right next to the gummy bears and right next to those like crazy shit.

Wow. No. Wait, why do they call it Christmas Tree Shop? Because it's like a bunch of just random stuff. They don't sell Christmas trees. They don't sell anything for the city. No, this isn't. Okay.

They need to get their story straight. Exactly. It's really weird. So, there was a guy in the stock room named Zachary La Palouza. I've been to his music festival. Sorry. Sorry. I'm very sorry about that.

You grabbed it. It was there and you grabbed it. Oh yeah. It was when I was like 13 or 14. Actually, no, I had to be like 16 because there was no way I was working in. Right. So, I was like, I was around 16 and he used to do stock room and he was like 26, 28. He had like a bowl cut that made his head look exactly like a penis.

What? Exactly. How? How? Like, it was just like, if he had, if he had it like his hair cut, it was just like like. Oh no. You have to be like perfectly like as though he had a penis bowl that they cut right here.

You know what I mean? Yeah. It looked like a. It was bad. It was bad. Yeah. But he was a really quiet guy. Really like mild manner, whatever.

Every time I used to come in, he used to be the one to open the door in the back. So, he used to walk in. Yeah. What's up, Zack? And like go to work, whatever. But we had another manager named, I think her name was Sean Treese or something like that. Really bitchy kind of lady.

Sorry. What happens? Yeah. Really kind of bitchy lady. But apparently they had had some kind of problem where he fell off a ladder or did something or other. She said that it was his fault. So he didn't get workman's comp and he got fired.

He flipped a shit. Came in the next day. Was like, where the fuck is she? A guy that I had never known to be like angry. He was really quiet. He just came in freaking out. You were there. No, I was not.

Okay. Yeah. No, no. By this time I got fired for coming back late on my break. For what? Christmas tree store is intense. Exactly. So, I had found out later on that he freaked out, whatever, whatever.

They had sent Sean trees to work at the Christmas tree shop in Rhode Island. It's like all the way across state lines. He found out that she was there. Yeah. Got a big fucking kitchen knife or something. Drove all the way from Connecticut to Rhode Island across state lines. How far is that? Yeah.

That's like pretty far. How many? Like an hour? I'm horrible with maps and stuff. We're like an hour? Yeah. You guys were talking about where Delaware was. Two hours.

And I was like, yeah. I see two. I see two. I see two. I mean, pretty far. Got it. Okay. And so he drove across state lines.

Found out that she was working at this Christmas tree shop. Sat out front, waited for her to leave for the night. Drove back to her house and then killed her in the house. Stabbed her something like 78 times. Whoa, wow. Yeah. At first it was like 45 times. And he was like, put her in the car, drove away with her.

Yeah. So he drove away with her in the car. Then apparently he was like, 45 was not enough. He got out of the car, stabbed her another like 30 times. Holy shit. And then took her body, threw it in like a ravine somewhere, and threw a toilet on top of her. Yeah.

Zack. Right? Like fucking Zack. Come on, you know? Yeah. And so, yeah, that was he stabbed her 70 times, threw her into whatever. They found her like a week and a half later. Shit.

Yeah. And he had no idea who it was, but then they had blood evidence. Shit, like trying to fight him or something. Blood evidence underneath her nails. Yeah. And realized that he was the one who got fired in Connecticut, tied it all back together, and went and found him. So now he's doing life in Rhode Island.

Wow. Good. Oh, dang. That was amazing. Wow. That was pretty crazy. That was a good one. You think you kind of know someone?

Good old Christmas tree shop. Yeah. You know what? You see that bowl cut? You just walk the other way. Every time. Am I right? All right, thank you.

Thank you. That was awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much. Thanks for being here. Thanks, you guys.

Thank you. That was so cool. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Leave that for a while. That was our last hometown of this tour. Yep. Best friends, best friends, brand new best friends.

They'll be signing autographs in the lobby after this. You guys. Okay, we've had the best time on this tour. It has been so cool to be here with you in real life and see that the bullshit we do in Georgia's apartment actually matters to seemingly a shit ton of people. It's such a huge compliment. It really is like. And every single fucking person we've met on this tour has been cool and someone we would

be friends with and hang out with and so fucking nice and awesome and we feel so lucky. Yeah, we so we talk about it all the time. You're crying. We talk about all the time though. They're just like, we keep saying that to men. So we're like, can we just keep doing this? We want to do this for a living. How could you not want to do this for a living?

So thank you for you guys being here buying tickets, supporting us is the reason we can even do it. Yeah. Thank you so much, Philadelphia. Thank you so much. You are an amazing crowd. Stay sexy. And don't get upset.

Bye, you guys. Thank you guys. Thank you.