My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark - 80 - Live At The Rams Head Live

Episode Date: August 3, 2017

This week’s My Favorite Murder comes to you live from the Rams Head Live. On stage, Karen and Georgia cover the killers Joe Palczynski and Joseph Kallinger. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is exactly right. in Hollywood. It's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles, from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Interac. Interac has a range of tools to help your business grow. Quickly and easily identify customers with Interac Verified. Pay your employees via bulk disbursement with Interac eTransfer for Business. Or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000. Plus, your payments are safe with

authentication and transaction encryption. Interac, we geek out on your business. Learn how at interact.ca slash for business. Terms and conditions apply. They're everywhere. Let me do it. Let me do it. What's up, Baltimore? I almost forgot. You have to do it in your real voice, though. I don't know who my real voice is.

You can do it. What's up, Baltimore? Yeah, there it is. There she is. I don't know. That scares me. Hey, we're at a bar and grill. What's up, Baltimore? Yeah, there it is. There she is. I don't know. That scares me. Hey, we're at a bar and grill. What's up, you guys? Hi.

You guys are up in the We Are the Part of the Rhythm Nation Janet Jackson section? That's rad. This is fucking MTV's The Grind. Am I right? Oh, for sure. Is this where they filmed it?

Yeah, this is it. This is it. Oh, thank you so much. Whenever the bar is this close to the stage, it's always a fun show. So we're excited. Hi, this is my favorite murder. That's Karen. I'm Georgia.

Hi. Let's get it out of the way. Thank you. I'm a year older. I'm much wiser. Thank you. Someone already said it. Thank you.

It's too late. Your moment's over. They already had it. We have a special bond. You're merely redundant. I'm so much wiser now. Wouldn't you say, Georgia? Oh my god, on the way over here, on the drive here

from D.C., I was like, Jesus, she's so much smarter and wiser. She just kept giving Vince and I marriage advice, and we were like, better when we got here. Right? Yeah. Right? Yeah. We were about to divorce, and then Karen was like, boop, boop, bop, laid it

down. Do, do, do, do, do that. And we're like, all right. Do you want to see the thing that I was doing? Because we had to travel on my actual birthday. So then when we got out of the car in front of the hotel, we were in D.C. yesterday. I get out of the car, and just for Georgia, I just went up to her and went, I'm 47. That's as high as I can kick my leg. I had to kind of go back a little bit

to get it up at all. I was waiting for you to fucking, once when I was like, kick! There was no room and I fucking flew backwards and landed on my ass. It was so embarrassing. And then when we got on the plane, I found Karen's seat and I went over to you. I think the woman was sitting there next to you already.

And I did a fucking habit. Like, I just. Do it. Do the full dance. My what? The dance? Do the full dance of what you did. Oh, okay.

I just started going. While you sang. Did I sing happy birthday? Happy fucking birthday. Yeah, that's right. Happy birthday. That's right. That's right. That's right.

Well, the very, I'm positive she was a multimillionaire, middle-aged Asian woman that was sitting next to me. It was just like. And the whole time I was doing, sorry. And I just kept apologizing. Sorry. Passing gifts across her. I mean, I had practiced that for months.

It was really good. You could tell. Thank you. You could tell that you had stretched and you had choreographed. I'm a good dancer. You're not afraid to bust one out on a plane. Oh, my God, no. Because I look like a child going to rehab.

Yes. On an airplane. You did, actually. Thank you. I have no couth on a plane. Let's see, what else? What else can we tell you about, guys? You love your hotel room.

Oh, you love your hotel room. Just with that. What? It's like you're just listing off things we've done. We walked down that hallway, went ahead and got in the elevator. That was good. Oh, look, we walked these out

did you see is that you oh my god someone who also had a mug was like me too I love mugs this one says fuck politeness on the front of it we got these gifts backstage and as you know

we love presents from people this is from Ann Margaret Ceramics Ann Margaret the actress also makes ceramics she doesn't want to come forward this is embarrassing she's like I'm sorry I had an affair with Paul Newman I can't be out in public right now.

I am Ann-Margret. Ann-Margret? Ann-Margret Elvis' old girlfriend. Oh. Well, you know everything. Do not fight with me in Baltimore. Do not start a fight at the Ram's Head in Baltimore. That was legitimate.

You know everything. It was more like, you know everything. Well, do it that way That was legitimate. You know everything. It was more like, you know everything, not like, you know everything. You have to put your hands way up high if you mean it positively. I didn't shave my armpits. Oh my God. Oh yeah, so Baltimore,

you guys have a fucking ton of murders. Do you guys? You guys. There's that applause for murder that the bartenders are like, what the fuck is wrong with these fucking people? They're going to their church group

tomorrow all pissed. I actually told Georgia, too, in the car on the way over that I'm not doing, because I was like, I'm not doing these, but I have to tell you really fast because this is fucking insane.

One of them I wanted to do, even though I'm almost positive it's a lie and probably like a creepypasta, but it was so good that I was like, maybe I'll just do it anyway and not say anything. Just add shit to it. Yeah, just pass it along. It was essentially the plot of Dexter, but

here in Baltimore. So it was like, if Dexter came onto the wire. And there was one article about it. It was like, here it is. One reporter caught it. Yeah. And then the other one was horrifying, too.

It was fun. And then I told you one that I didn't do, too. Yes, that's right. You guys had so many. We were like, and they all were so horrifying. It makes it sound like it was the longest Uber ride ever. It really wasn't that far. Time to tell all kinds

of stories. We did. And we haven't found a White Castle yet, but we found an Arby's, and that was a mistake. Vince likes Arby's. Thanks, Vince. He was driving, so it was his pick. He was.

Oh, can everyone give it up for Stephen right now? Stephen! Thank you. He's not here. We're not trying to trick you. He's going to listen to this tonight, after the show. He listens to every show. It's pretty fucking sweet. He

was watching my cats, which is so great. And he sends me all these photos and videos. And you know how you know your cat's expressions and what it means? And I was like, they are so annoyed with him. He doesn't know it, but he was just like, Mimi, Mimi, Mimi, Mimi, Mimi. And she was just like, no, can you fucking leave me alone? And so I was worried that my dad, who doesn't like cats, is staying there the rest of the weekend. And then I'm like, oh, they're going to be so glad that this guy just leaves them alone over the weekend.

So, I mean, win-win. What if we go back and Steven just has an eye patch and he doesn't really say anything about it? No, I like it like this. I didn't even like my right eye. It's fine. Mimi was right. You can have an eye patch and a mustache. Or I guess you can.

I guess you can. Yeah, you have to have a mustache with an eye patch. Yeah. And then you get a poet shirt and you're a pirate and everything's fucking rad. Yes. Get it. It's so cool. Yeah.

Should we sit down? No, no. You don't decide. You have to show everybody your dress. Oh, yeah. God, I always forget this. What's it called again? Sophisticated something.

We checked the tag in her dress last night. Because I was like, it's something funny. And it's called the Sophisticated Miss. Yeah. Is the brand of that dress. That's what the commercial does. Yay! Sophisticated Miss.

This season, the Sophisticated Miss is going to talk about murders. It's the perfect dress. Thank you. And then you. This whole thing? No. Now that I'm one year older, I like to wear things that are shapeless and odd. I actually, this is truly the dress that I went into a store and I was like,

and then ran away to put it on. I was like, man, this is not doing me any favors. But whatever, we have to go on the road. But I was going to buy a dress at Nordstrom's the day before we left, purely because it had pockets. That's the only reason I wanted to buy a dress at Nordstrom's the day before we left, purely because it had pockets. Like, that's the only reason I wanted to buy it. But I was looking at it, and it was like black, but it had like this weird high neck. It was almost like a mock turtleneck dress.

Like a Puritan? With this flap over the side. And I was like, I will look like an evil dentist if I wear this dress. I can't. Why don't I get to have anything however pockets I went to a vintage shop today in your town which is like my fucking thing when I get into town I'm like vintage shop in Yelp

and there was one not far so we walked over and I bought something only because I felt bad for the owner for the store it was fine but it just wasn't my style but the owner was like so, you know, the kind of like, this would look good on you. And you like pick up one thing and look at it.

And they're like, you like 70s? And she was just like so earnest and like meant it. So I bought like two things. I spend a lot of money all the time. Good. And I have a very full closet. Because you pity people? Yeah.

What a dick. Do you have anything for a sophisticated miss in here but i bought a new house dress so we're all good oh nice oh good i can flow your shit don't let me don't let me catch you i know um let's see what else everybody That's been our show? Oh, someone brought me happy birthday balloons last night. Yeah, none of you did. They were on stage with us.

Yeah, we brought them on stage, which the Union Theater stagehands did not like. They were just like, what if they get away? We were just like, well. And then when Vince brought out the birthday donut

candle situation, they were like, well, we'll follow you out with a fire extinguisher. It was one candle. I'm not fucking making this up. Yeah. Union pride, everybody. We fucking break the union. We're just this flyer

we talking shit on unions yeah we really should have been they're great not at this in this day and age no

we should not be no fuck out of unions I feel like there was one other thing but then I don't know what it is so I guess we should

sit down let's do it let's do it yeah thank you I feel like this like this

yeah on it Thank you. I feel like this? Like this? Yeah, on it. Oh, I got a text today from the ACLU being like, oh, Tuesday, California has this voter thing. Don't vote for this thing because it's shitty. And it's like fake, so the cops won't face any, you know, what is it called? Charges?

Charges for anything. Don't, but don't vote for it. And I wrote back like, okay. And then I wrote, fight the power. And the guy wrote me back and he's like, all right. I like had a little fight thing. I was like, fuck yeah. It's like a real person. That's modern day activism. Just email your passion around to strangers. It's going straight to the LAPD and they're putting your name in a pile. But who's trying to fight the power? Did you? Oh, this is my Rocky towel for when we're done. I can wrap it around my neck.

Throw it. I don't know what to do with it. I'm 47. Happy fucking birthday to do with it. I'm 47. Happy fucking birthday. That was it. Happy fucking birthday. Okay. This is what it's going to be like the whole time.

I'm not sure if you know that. Is anyone unsure of how this goes? You are? So are we. I feel like these poor people over here are like, they're on like a Oh my god. You know what's weird? They paid $500 a seat over there.

Why would you do that? It's like a Universal Studios ride where you get put into a thing. I know. Are you guys cordoned off? Are those the punk rock people that just go fucking nuts? They're just like Let's sit here and only tell them the story. Are those the punk rock people that just go fucking nuts? Oh, no. They're just like... They are.

Let's sit here and only tell them the story. Wouldn't that be fun? Sorry. Sorry, everyone else. Sorry, Rhythm Nation. Let's get it together another time. I'm trying not to look at this so I don't know who your murder is. Even though I know you don't care, but I care.

Just don't look at it then. I'm trying. But I'm so nosy don't know who your murder is. Even though I know you don't care, but I care. Just don't look at it then. I'm trying. But I'm so nosy. There you go. Are you going first? I think I'm first. You were first yesterday, right? Yes, that's right.

That's right. Hi, you guys. All right. This is fucking Baltimore. Jesus. Bodymore. I know it's Bodymore and then I was like that's so clumsy and then I saw

Bodymore Murderland today and I was like yeah that is better Murderland? Yeah. I like it it all came together for you when you got the Murderland part okay this is the killing spree

of Joe Palazinski. Oh, yeah. You never know how everyone's going to... You know this one? Did you see this one? I saw it a little bit. But I didn't go into it. Don't be disappointed. I'm going to be an active listener.

Okay, so Joe Palazinski, born... Why are you laughing at me? November 11th, 68. I have an eye patch now. Ow! I literally pluck your eyebrow, eyeball, eyebrow out. My eyebrow?

You can take the eyeball, not the eyebrow. You'll look weird without an eyebrow. So. I can always get an eyeball. Back to the murder. Oh, the eyeball killer guy was at our show last night. Sorry, what'd you say? The eyeball killer.

The policeman that solved the eyeball killer murder was at our show in D.C. last night. And he hated us. No. last night. And he hated us. No. He was there to yell at us. I was so scared that, like, I was like, what did I say in that episode about the cops and the eyeball killer?

And I was like, shit, why is he here? And then I was scared, and then his, like, stepdaughter came, and I'm like, is he mad at me? She was like, no, he loves you guys. And I was like, oh, cool. We have to go city by city and find out

if people are mad at us that's part of what the tour is yeah is he here because he's angry or is he here because

he's just standing in the lobby with his arms crossed you know there's nothing we can do alright so

Joe Pelzinski total fucking dick over a span of 13 years he lured at least 7 very young women teens into a fantasy relationship. Ugh, I hate those.

It's not like a fantasy suite like in Bachelor. It's a really, it's like a fantasy suite but over a span of eight months. Which is like, ugh, can we just go get coffee? Each discovered the truth of him and his dangerously controlling personality. His mom, of course, Pam, doted on him, treated him like royalty. What? The way you said, of course, Pam, was like you work with Pam and you're sick of her shit. Of course, Pam. You know Pam, how she is with the files.

Well, she's the same way with her son. Dotes on him. He's like a man-child. His dad commits suicide when he's younger and his sister dies in a car accident. And he says at that point he's just stopped fucking caring about life. Done. Amy was 15 when she met

his nickname was Joby. Ew. I know. So I'm going to call him Joe now. Okay. Okay? Because I don't want to say that word anymore, and I don't fucking have to. I don't fucking want to. It's my fucking podcast and yours.

Sorry, there's caffeine in here. She's drinking liquid cocaine, everybody. It's fun. Okay, she's 15. He's 18. He told her he has two personalities joe number one is hi i'm una chaplin and i'm the host of a new podcast called hollywood exiles it tells the story of how my grandfather charlie chaplin and many others were caught up in a campaign to root

out communism in hollywood it's a story of glamour and scandal and political intrigue and a battle for the soul of the nation. Hollywood Exiles from CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service. Available now on Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Interac. Interac has a range of tools to help your business grow. Quickly and easily identify customers with Interac Verified. Pay your employees via bulk disbursement with Interac eTransfer for Business. Or pay vendors with large sum payments up to $25,000.

Plus, your payments are safe with authentication and transaction encryption. Interac, we geek out on your business. Learn how at interac.ca slash forbusiness. Terms. We geek out on your business. Learn how at interact.ca slash for business. Terms and conditions apply. Calm and rational. Number two is angry and strange. You know when someone, it's like so goth to say, I'm strange. As he's putting on black lip liner. Yeah, we're like, I get it. Also, it's just a, it's a red flag if your boyfriend is like, there's two of me. You'd be like, you know what?

I have to go home. I'm so sorry. That's what 47-year-olds say. 15-year-olds are like, ooh. Oh, my God. Is there more? I'm going to fix you. We're making fun of it, but it's fucking true.

That's right. So he kept guns under his bed and in his car. Okay. And once he held a knife to Amy's throat, beat her multiple times, including instances when the police and other witnesses were like, hey, what the fuck's going on here?

And he'd be like, no, we're fine, we're good. And they would let him walk away with this woman he was beating the shit out of. Child. good and they would let him walk away with this woman he was beating the shit out of. Child. He, she suffered a lot of fucking contusions

and lacerations. Couldn't hear for months because out of one ear he was very abusive. She didn't want to press charges and, because she's 15 and that's your thing. But her mom was like, oh hell fucking no. You know what I mean? Because she was probably 47.

You know what I mean? She's the thing. Right. But her mom was like, oh, hell fucking no. You know what I mean? Because she was probably 47. You know what I mean? She's the opposite of Pam. She doesn't stand for shit. Uh-uh. She works in human resources and she does not. Yeah. Her mother later recalls,

Amy's mother later recalls getting a phone call from Pam who's like, and this getting a phone call from Pam, who's like, and this is a pattern she comes up with, is begging not to press charges against her son. I'm so sorry, he's going to get help. He just needs da-da-da-da-da-da, and he's had a hard childhood. And Amy's mom is like, go fuck yourself again.

And she said, he's going to kill somebody someday. Yeah. That's called foreshadowing, by the way. If anybody's been to kill somebody someday. Yeah. He pleads not guilty. That's called foreshadowing, by the way. But he never did. No, he never killed anyone. What? Yeah. This is a story about somebody else.

Oh, shit. Oh, this is from my other podcast. He pleads not guilty by reason of insanity. A psychiatrist found some competent to stand trial and he's sentenced to four years in prison in Hagerstown. Hagerston. Hagerstown. It doesn't sound like anything when you do that.

I know. Yeah! Oh, okay. Got it. We're a little hurt from last night in D.C. We got a lot of... Those names are hard. And we just like.

Every name was different than how it was spelled. And it was like three times as many as you and they all were yelling the same thing. But this is intimate. Okay. He serves two years, including time, for an attempted escape. He's getting counseling. including time for an attempted escape. He's getting counseling.

He's described as having deliberately dangerous situations, fantasies, consistent with his identity that he thinks as like a Rambo hero. He thinks he is. And when he would like have girls page him, he'd say like, or he'd page girls, he'd be like, you know it's me when I page you 007. You know what I mean? I page you 007. I hope he gets sued for that.

Sorry, that's copyright infringement. You're not allowed to. No. What year was this? So this is all around the early 90s. I wanted it to be now. He's like a loser. He has a pager. Look, you can page me.

Yeah. Just do a 007. So when he's 22, he's released from jail in April 91. He no longer faces prosecution for beating another X years before because the judge just dismissed the trial because he couldn't, it wasn't fair because he couldn't get a speedy trial because he was in prison that whole time. So they were like, you don't get a,y trial because he was in prison that whole time.

So they were like, you've been gone too long, so we're not going to charge you. You know what I mean? I'm not saying it right. It's one of our rights, speedy trials. Yeah, but I don't know if that's the right, how we use it. Okay. I know, I know.

He goes to date other teenagers, charms all of them. He's hot in the, like, you know, that type. 007 way? Yeah. He's hot in a, well, we have a photo of him. Okay, we have a photo. Can we put up the, I think it's Noodles is the guy who's doing it. So that's him. Oh.

Can you see it? Is he on Knott's Landing? That filter is amazing. Let's do, can we do the next one? That's the kind of filter I want to start using. Can we do the next one? Yeah. All right. So this is him. Oh shit. Wait, took that down. Don't look at that. Is that Joby? Yeah. Joby one, two, three, four, and five. It says what he did. Okay. No, we haven't gotten there yet. Got it. Got it. I like him in a hat, though.

So, like, that guy, you know? That guy drives a Mustang, has muscles. Has a pager. Has a pager. Got it. Probably wears, like, you know, the denim-washed, light-washed jeans. Careful. Oh.

But in the 90s, so it's not ironic. Charms the shit out of them, and then he goes on to physically and sexually attack them for various infractions. He gave one girl a black eye and threatened her with a razor blade because he found birth control pills in her bedroom and was like, you can't fucking take these. Like, super controlling, abusive, typical. And he's trying to get her pregnant?

I don't, yeah. He's like, you can't, you know, he's trying to get her pregnant? I don't, yeah. He's like, you can't, you know, he's just controlling in a way. Wow. Yeah, it's really like classic abusive. Classic Joby. So he attacks her at school and threatens to blow her brains out. But he also threatens multiple girls that he's going to kill their family and leave them alive to suffer. So he thinks that he can make a girlfriend come back to him or drop charges if she's

terrified what would happen if he didn't. So just fucking intimidating these girls and their families. You know, the good kind of love. Assault on Battery, let's see see standoff in 92 that lasted 16 hours with the cops and then what? like he's just you know going around

he's just doing his thing now do you know what the standoff was for? he got out of like jail again and then went and like assaulted a 16 year old 13 year old girl and I think they like came after him and then ext and like assaulted a 16 year old 13 year old girl and i think they like came after him and then um extradited him back here well so oh let's see here he had a rifle and a magnum handgun and he played a russian roulette which everyone knows is the tough guy

move that's the toughest thing you can do um and he'd just constantly go to court after he would beat up a girl. And he got more and more afraid of returning to jail. And he started thinking that he would do whatever it took to force his victims to drop their charges. So he's getting desperate because he's getting close to having to spend a long time in jail. And so he's 27 when he starts dating Michelle. Michaela? Who's 17. It looks like Michelle. Michelle.

She's 17. He's 27. He chokes her and slams her head against shower tiles on Christmas Day in 95. And let's see. He threatened to throw her off the balcony. So Merry fucking Christmas. He sent one of his girlfriend's father to the hospital

because he was like, stop dating my 14-year-old daughter, you're 30. And he was like, I won't. And she was like, I won't stop dating him. He goes to the hospital with four broken ribs and a split lip requiring stitches when the father tried to intervene with the relationship. Then he's diagnosed with schizophrenia, paranoid type,

and concluded that he met the criteria of legal insanity at that point. So he's found not guilty on federal weapons charges after this whole ordeal. Because he pled insanity? Yeah. I don't think he was schizophrenic at all. From everything you read about him I don't think he was schizophrenic at all. Like, from everything you read about him, he sounds like he was

like, tricking the system and being like, I'm crazy, and like years and years of it. Although he did think he was James Bond. Alright. So, soon he has a new sports car, he's out of prison, a Mazda RX-7, and he's romancing a young woman he meets

at where every good relationship starts at the checkout line at a Super Fresh. Oh my God. Sometimes when people ask me how Vince and I met, I lie and tell them that's where I was.

I really want it to be that. You're like, we were in line at the Super Fresh and I saw his pager and I was like, I have to talk to this guy. And then when we went out and I saw his car heager, and I was like, I have to talk to this guy. And then when we went out and I saw his car he was driving, I was like, I'm so fucking lately. Yes.

We're dating. All right, seven? Yeah, Mazda. Jail 19 times? Hello? Yes. Yeah, but then he'd say to the girls, like, you know, yes, I was in prison, and yes, these things happened, but my ex-girlfriend, she manipulated me. She lied about me beating her up. I cheated on her. And so she got pissed at me and made all these,

none of it was real. And the girls were all like, oh my God, I'm going to help him. He's right. And we fucking did everything for him, but they were all under 18, except Tracy Whitehead is 20. So that's who he meets in line. So Tracy is still fighting an addiction to heroin when she meets Joe, and she's also working to get her kid back, who she had at 15 and is staying with her parents while she's kicking heroin. But before long, with Joe's charming help, she'd been drug-free for a year, and he would take them on outings

and just seemed like a good guy who like wanted to marry her and they moved in together but sometimes he would spit on her and douse her I'm sorry could we pause for a second what occasion would he wait till Christmas came around

again or I mean I gleek on Vince sometimes on accident not on purpose I get excited when i tell stories and spit stuff yeah spittle yeah but not like that no no no spit on her douse her soda gave her a black eye and a split lip and once when she had slipped back into drugs he knocked her unconscious which is a great tactic for getting someone off drugs. Yeah. A few times he threatened that if she left him, he would kill her whole family, leave her alive to suffer.

So she had just been promoted, like she's getting her life back together. She just promoted to assistant manager at her job. And she'd been drug free for a year and a half, which Joe took all the credit for. Sure. And she could finally afford to live on her own, and she knew she had to leave this abusive

relationship. So she saved up some money, found an apartment, was ready to move in and leave him, but the apartment wouldn't be ready for a week. Jesus. It's like, this is exactly what they littleize. This is like the plot of it. Oh, is it? Kind of.

No, I mean, there's one. There's one. Yes. Yes. So she has him arrested for beating her at one point, and another assault conviction would violate his probation and send him to jail for 10 years, and he felt he had nothing left to lose at that point. Yeah, that's never a good feeling. She secretly, so she found her new place, and she couldn't move in,

so her really sweet manager, 50-year-old Gloria Schenck, who had also been in a bad relationship in the past, was like, come stay with myself and my husband. We'll take care of you. You shouldn't stay there. So her husband, George, they are in the community of Bowley's Quarter near Middle River. Oh, she said it right.

Yeah. Three people lived there here. It's a gorgeous little place. When he went to then, okay, so she's staying with them, and it's George and Gloria, which actually I was almost named Gloria, and our George was going to be my,

which is so creepy, right? Yeah, that's insane. I guess. So they're all at home, the three of them. They're watching, no, Texas, Walker, Texas Ranger. Why is that the saddest part of this whole story? I was editing this and I was like, leave that in for Karen. Like I knew you'd want to hear it.

Joe breaks into the house. There's an unlocked back door. Unlock your fucking door. Joe breaks into the house. There's an unlocked back door. Unlock your fucking door. He gets in the house, and he has his gun. And he has two guns, and he demands Tracy to come with him. And she panics and freezes and drops to the ground.

And then hears a shot and looks up, and he had shot Gloria. Then he shoots George. He killed them both. No way. Yeah. And then he begins his killing spree he he drags her barefoot by the hair

into the night she's screaming, their neighbor David Myers 42, tries to stop them and he's shot and killed too he shoves her into his mother's van and drives off, takes her to the woods, holds a gun to the back of her head and threatens to kill her.

She begs him to let her live long enough to tell her son she loved him. But instead, he describes what he's going to do to her, including blow away her arms and legs and keep her alive, like make her live in a wheelchair for the rest of her life. Like, what the fuck, man? He's fucked up.

Fucking fuck. Abusive. He continues to beat her until they find a camper, they go to sleep. In the morning, when they wake up, his anger's gone. He was one of those people that the next minute, he'd be like, can I make you dinner? You know what I mean?

I didn't make that up. He that was really in it And so he's not mad anymore. He wakes up. He makes a little bed under a tree and And she's like let's pray and ask God to forgive you for what you've done and he Promises he prays and he starts crying and he said, I brought a ring. I want to propose to you. Joby? Not now. I mean, I know it's a nerve-wracking time.

It's a scary thing. Oh, that's fucked. Oh, I mean mean to propose to someone maybe he just you know he's nervous she's just staring at him like are you fucking I told you I wanted to do this at the pier we were gonna do it at line

at the super fresh or whatever it's called shit that's yeah okay wow so I'm sorry that means that the ring was like in his pocket the whole fucking time like that was his plan wow and he was like i know this is a bad time really and then he gave her a necklace with a golden baby ring on it and that he said it was intended for their first child. Oh, dude. That they were going to have.

Yeah. And he kind of knew he was going to die at the end of this whole thing, so he was like, I was going to do this, but fuck it, here you go. Tell my mom I love her. Seriously. So she plays along. She convinces him to leave the

woods. Let's go find some food they're drinking from a hose behind a house in Chase when the owner drove up Joe pulls out his gun and the man fucking takes off to the street waving down cars so he survives he pushes Tracy into the homeowner's car

and then at the evening of March 8th, he kills his fourth victim, Jennifer McDonald. She's 36. He later carjacks an 81-year-old woman. She's not injured. And then they go to the El Rich Motel on

Pulaski Highway. Someone's just nervously laughing in the back. know i don't know what to do with any of this it's the bartender it's his first day and he's like this is not what i thought i thought the pixies were playing tonight god damn it um so on they're in the motel and on the news they're showing pictures of the people that he had already killed. Tracy's crying. He's freaking out. He says, we've got to get out of here. I left the guns in the car, he realizes.

So they go into the parking lot, and there's a police cruiser in the parking lot. Tracy fucking breaks away, runs over to the police car, and starts banging on the windows. And Heath and Joe takes off. Wait, was there a cop inside? I think so. I hope so. I do, too. I assume. Yeah, OK. She's banging on off. Wait, was there a cop inside? I think so. I hope so. Okay, I do too.

I assume. Yeah, okay, okay. She's banging on windows. Yeah, yeah. She somehow goes to the cop. Okay, good. And so he's like freaking out, takes off

and there's some woods behind him and he fucking bolts into the woods. Tracy makes it out alive. Good, good, good. Yay. Wait, but there's still another page. Yeah, we're not. There's,

yeah, there's one more page. But I mean, is she alive? Tracy, yeah. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, she's alive. Okay, I think we talked about this last episode, this what happened next. Okay.

Wait, I don't think anyone else dies. Yay, okay. Because he randomly left certain people alive. He'd carjack them. He carjacks a guy. Let me read it. So there's hundreds of law enforcement officers, bloodhounds, which I really want a bloodhound. No, you don't.

And a robot. They search the woods and the storm drains. Is George part bloodhound? She's half hound. She is hound. And she's out of her fucking mind. I love hound. Are they crazy?

They're insane. They can smell everything and they're like, they're really sensitive. You have to walk them twice a day or they just stare at you like you're killing them. And they want to like,

they just want to go snuffle and shit, right? Yes. And also those ones are like floppy, like if, you know, unless you love spit love spit i don't know whatever your deal is well that's my deal so it becomes baltimore county's most extensive manhunt um people are buying baseball bats and ammunition for their guns and like fucking freaking out because he's just loose in the city and everyone knows there's someone just killing people. Yeah, loose.

And then two days later he goes to Virginia, kidnaps William Lewis Terrell and orders him to transport him back to eastern Baltimore County. And then releases him unharmed. So it's this really weird, like depending on what mood he's in that day.

On Friday, March 17th, so a fucking week later, you've got some man, like, running around your county. Can you imagine? He goes to Dundalk. Dundalk? It's pronounced, what? Sorry, I got that wrong. I'm from, what?

Maryland. Maryland. wrong. I'm from Maryland. He goes to the home of Tracy's mom now. We're with Tracy's mom. Okay. Mrs. Whitehead. Wait, I thought they, who were the people that got

shot? Those were the, that was her manager, her job, who, right? And her husband, who had been in a bad relationship, like, stay with us for a week. So those weren't parents okay sorry for some reason people named george i just assume that's the dad i don't know why fair enough it's a dad name yeah it is a dad name um so her so tracy's mother she's like because remember he was like i'm gonna kill your family gets to the gets to their house you think the cops nope i'm nope, I'm not going to say it.

Lynn and her boyfriend Andrew are there, and their 12-year-old son Bradley are all there. Bradley, like, hears a knock at the door. He's 12. He opens the door and is like, oh, I know Joe. And they hadn't warned him. He comes in the fucking house. Okay, can I just say this?

This is what happens when any time there's a little kid around and there's bad shit happening and the kid goes hey what's going on you go i'll tell you later i'll tell you when you're older and then that used to happen to me all the time because i was the youngest so like one time my cousin cheryl's husband was in the kitchen i was like hi what's going on where's cheryl and then he was like oh we're getting a divorce and i was like and apparently had been going on for months. And they forgot to tell me. So I'm on his side. Right now I'm really mad. You've got to tell 12-year-old kids.

You've got to. The worst thing. And that's, everyone here was told. Like, I feel like all murderinos were told the thing at 12. Yeah, that's right. So they wouldn't have answered the door. Every single person in this room would have been like, fuck no. Joe killed all these people. That weird guy with the pager, I never liked him.

No. Okay, so 97 hours he's holding them hostage. That's over three days. Did they get a pee? Did they eat? I want to know everything. What did they do? It was inside that house, right?

Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah. Occasionally firing shots at law enforcement who are out front watching visual. Guard? They got the visual on them? They got the visual. They're visual. They're visual.

They're individuals. They're just being themselves out there. Yeah. This podcast for me is Yahtzee. I'm just making up words. Isn't that Yahtzee? Nope. Oh.

Which one's the one where you make up words with all your words? Oh, that's Scrabble. That's Scrabble. I thought you meant just like Yahtzee. Whatever comes up. Oh, I should have fucking gone with that. Yeah, always go with it. Always pretend like you meant the bullshit you just said.

No, what's the one where you press the thing down and it pops and you have to... That's trouble. That's trouble. It's Hungry, Angry Hippos. Poggle is the hard case. The popping one is trouble. Oh, I'll give you trouble. That was the...

If you pop around the back, let the pizza get back. Oh, i know every fucking song diarrhea were you singing the diarrhea song this is not the time to play i might have been singing the trouble song in the key in the key of diarrhea when you're sliding in a home bartenders are quitting in mass they're just clocking the fuck out it was garbage they're going straight to therapy emergency therapy me too me let's all go okay Okay, 97 hours. They're firing shots at each other.

And then on the evening of Tuesday, March 21st, Lynn and Andrew, fucking in the most badass move in fucking hostage situation... History? History. Yeah. Fuck. Give him a glass of iced tea

laced with fucking Xanax. What? Yes! Joby, I made you some special high C. So Karen, I took Xanax one time. You've taken it, right? Wait, what? You've taken it, right? All of a sudden I thought you said

you've done heroin, right? I was like, yeah, wait. Just tell me right now. Tell me in Baltimore. No. The answer's no, everyone. I took Xanax one time with my friend. We took Xanax and we watched the Food Network and drank red wine.

Amazing. It was. Sorry, don't do drugs. It was amazing because I had absolutely no feeling about anything at all. Which was simultaneously I realized how insane I was where I was like, Oh, I'm worried about many things all the time. Yeah. This is usually your brain. Yes. But then also that like calm waters, that's not for me either. No, thank you. I need a little, I need a little fretting. Everyone needs a little crazy. Yes. Little bananas.

Because when you don't care about anything, I mean, yeah. Then you become Pam in HR. Yeah, that's right. Oh, shit. Well, I'll get it later. It doesn't matter. Oh, Xanax. Yeah, the first time I took it, I was on the way to a thing, and I was really nervous.

And my friend who was driving me was like, can you shut up? And gave me one. And you know how I am in a car. I'm a fucking lunatic, stressed out asshole. I scream at everyone. They don't hear me. I just scream in the car. And I was in the car driving with her.

And then I was like, traffic's cool because you can just see everyone and see what they're doing. And then I was like, oh my god. I have bad anxiety this whole doing. And then I was like, oh my god. I have bad anxiety this whole time. And then I knew. And then I got a prescription. You're like, goodbye caring. Yeah, for sure.

Okay, so Xanax. It fucking knocks him out. Which I'm like, how much did you give him? I bet you they were like, get the other bottle. How much do you think he was mad at her? I'm being sexist when she was like, I got a Xanax prescription.

He's like, you don't need that shit. And then she's like, aren't you fucking glad I got it? Andrew. So then Andrew's like, I'm going to peace out and get the cops. But he makes a lot of noise tumbling out the window in a panic. Yet it didn't wake Pelzinski. Wow. Because he was drugged like a horse.

Okay. They leave. They both leave. The parents both leave. And they leave the kid in the kitchen asleep next to Joe. Wait. Were they also on Xanax? They're like, it'll be fine.

They also put the kid to sleep. This is fun. Didn't we talk about that last episode about parents leaving their kids behind when they're like, yeah, I'm late. Yeah. I mean, okay. Sleeping on the kitchen floor. They get the fuck out. Their reasoning, which I'm sure the cops were like, yeah, fucking right,

is that they were like, well, we thought if you'd wake him up, he'd be like, what? Where am I? What's going on? And wake up Joe. Yeah. Because little kids can't fucking wake up silently. That's true.

Which is like, I don't believe that. And then they'd kill them all. It's like, well, we'll just kill your kid now. So what are you doing? They thought it was best. So they got out, got the cops. The cops were like, what the fuck? There's a kid alone in there?

So they just were like, fuck it, and burst into the house. Wow. Because they're like, we're not fucking waiting for this, which is awesome. And they say that when they did that, Joe sat up and reached for his weapon, so they shot him 27 times. Oh, my. Oh, my. And seven of those shots were straight into the beeper.

I'm sorry. I hate beepers so much. I don't know why. Oh, and he died. He died. Oh, he died? He did die of 27 wounds. Okay.

Okay, so here's how I'm going to end it on a positive note because my God. So a year later on Tracy's 23rd birthday, so Tracy sends in okay, Howard Stern is like, everyone send me, listeners send me

your hardship stories. I'm going to pick one and you're going to get an all expense paid trip to Vegas. And you're going to get one hand of blackjack to win it all. Like you're going to, I'm going to give you this much money to put on blackjack and here's how much you can win. I don't remember how much it was. And so she sends like, well, here's my fucking story. I win. Yeah. And Howard Stern was like, my fucking story. I win. Yeah. And Howard Stern was like, uh-huh. Yeah.

You fucking win. She got picked? She got picked. He fucking flies her out to Vegas. And I remember this happening because my brother was obsessed with Howard Stern back then and we would just, that's all we would listen to. Yeah. He picks her. She goes there. Single-handed blackjack. She wins $100,000. No!

Oh my god! Oh my God. And that... Oh my God. That's that. And then she turns to the first scumbag she sees. Hey!

Let's get married! Oh, you just ruined it. Holy shit. Sorry. No, that's amazing. That was crazy. Yeah.

Do you have a picture? Oh, we have a picture. Is there a picture? I mean, there's a standoff picture. That's him. He's a dick. There he is. And then that's a standoff.

Oh, shit. And then the first photo is Tracy and Joe. Oh, yeah. When they were hugging? Yeah, if you can go to the first photo. He can't go back. I know. He's like, nope, now you don't get pictures.

It's fine. I don't need them. I don't need them. You can tell we're not used to the visual component of this podcast. It's rusty. It's new and different. So that's Joe Palzinski, a fucking killer. Oh.

Wow. Yeah. That's that. All right. I just hit my teeth with the microphone. You did what? Yeah. Oh, thank you.

Let's hear it. Thank you. Yeah. That was big. That's hear it. Thank you. Yeah, that was big. That was a lot. Now I want to get Xanax. All right. Well, my guy, I mean, it's just as fucked up in so many ways.

My guy is Joseph Callenger, the shoemaker. Do you know that guy? All right, let me tell you a little bit about him. He was born on December 11th, 1935, and he was almost immediately given up for adoption. The father abandoned the family. The mother couldn't handle raising a child by herself, so he gets put into a foster family.

And unluckily for him, he was placed in the worst foster family possible. It was two Austrian immigrants, Stephen and Anna Callenger. And they were both insanely abusive. So they did stuff like lock him in a closet, forcing him to kneel on rocks. They starved him they whipped him he was beaten so severely that when he was six years old he got a hernia and he had to go get hernia surgery oh my god which is insanity for a child and while he was in the hospital or when he came home to recover from this surgery

they told him, no it must have been before he left, they told him the doctor was going to cut off his little bird and that basically when he came home he wasn't going to have a penis. So fun times in the Callenger household. Oh no.

So he was not on the weekends, he wasn't allowed to play, he wasn't allowed to have friends weekends he wasn't allowed to play he wasn't allowed to have friends he wasn't allowed to go outside he had to work in the family shoe shop this was in Philly where the shoe shop was so when he was

8 years old he told his mother that he wanted to go to the zoo on a class trip so his mother hit him in the mother that he wanted to go to the zoo on a class trip. So his mother hit him in the head with a hammer. Oh my God. Yeah. Uh, on the way home, uh, that same year on the way home from school, he is, uh, held at knife point by three boys in the neighborhood and molested, but he is so afraid that he's

going to get in trouble for not coming straight home after school that he doesn't tell anybody. No, of course not. Poor baby. Can you imagine that's how horrible this family is? Is that a horrible thing happens and he's like, oh no, a way worse thing will happen if I tell

my fucking parents. So super dark from jump for this guy. When he was 10 years old, he stole money from his parents to bribe neighborhood kids to go to the movies with him. I know. I keep saying, oh, but

I have a feeling he ends up killing a lot of people one day. Well, yeah. I mean, we're painting a picture. There's a context behind it. There's reasons for things sometimes. When his parents caught him stealing money, they burned his fingers on the stove so that they would burn the demon thief

out of the fingers that steal. Okay. So as a teenager, he starts rebelling, of course, because he's living in hell. He decides at one point that he wants to be a playwright. And somehow he convinces his parents that he should get to be in a play and get to go do theater. So they actually let him do it. And while he's in a play, he ends up meeting a girl named Hilda Bergman.

And he's 15 years old, but he immediately, they start dating, they immediately start having a sexual relationship, and two years later, they get married. Wow. So I think he was 17,

and she was a little bit younger than him. So they end up having two children. Jesus. Yeah. But Hilda leaves him, because, of course, he viciously beat her. Jesus. Yeah. But Hilda leaves him because of course he viciously beat her. Oh. So she

leaves him in 1956. He has a breakdown. He ends up going to a mental hospital. When he gets out in 1958 he almost immediately gets remarried to his second wife Elizabeth. This was back before Tinder. So he must have been insanely charming.

With Elizabeth, he has five more children. Wow, dude. Yeah. He loves fucking. It says it right here on the paper. And he has taken over the family shoe shop so the shoe shop is downstairs they live in a tiny and squalid apart like apartment space above the shoe shop and he abuses his wife of course and his kids in a lot of the same ways that his foster parents abused him. Can we break the cycle? I know. And not this guy. Um, so over the next 10 years, his mental state starts to deteriorate as well. So in 1958,

he, um, apparently he owned a building somewhere else in town. He sets the basement of this building on fire and then collects $15,000 in insurance payout. Um, And he ends up doing that four more times over five years to this same building. So first he lights the basement on fire. Then he goes ahead and lights the second floor on fire, gets a payout for that. I think he got $11,000 for that.

Then by the time he lights the first floor on fire, the insurance company's like, I don't know. It seems. In 1959, he's committed to a mental hospital after attempting suicide. In 1972, he is arrested on child abuse charges because his daughter, who was a teenager,

tried to run away from home, and when he caught her, he ended up branding her with an iron. Oh, shit. Yes. And so that daughter, his oldest son, Joe Jr., and their other,

I think it's their other daughter, they go to the cops, and they're like, our father is a fucking monster, and he needs to be arrested. And they see the wounds. They take the kids. They listen to their testimony, and then They take the kids. They listen to their testimony.

And then they take the kids to the hospital. And they see that all the kids have a ton of crazy proof that they've been abused, tons of scars and broken bones that have reset badly. It's intense. So he is found competent to stand trial trial even though he was tested and he only had an iq of 82 holy shit and he was also diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic um so he was sentenced to 11 months in prison uh for the child abuse but he'd already been held um for seven months so he was given four months probation and released

so in 1973 those three children suddenly recant the abuse charges and they come in and they sign affidavits the police to say we lied it was never true that he never abused us. So from then on, his record is cleared. The charges are dropped, and it's as if it never happened. Oh, my God. Yeah. So in 1974, he begins hearing the voice of God speaking to him through what he described as a disembodied head named Charlie. Sure. Right?

We've all had that. I mean, I see it right now. Wait, what's he saying? Hey, you're God. Oh, you're God. Yeah. You're God. You're God. What are you going to do with that power? Take a nap. Oh, really? Because we need a ton of help out here. So, well, what Charlie, the disembodied head that was the voice of God, was telling Joseph Callenger was that he needed to start killing young boys and severing their penises from their bodies. Oh, no.

Which, you know, in the book of John, chapter 7, verse 15. Oh, no. Or is it Ecclesiastes that says? Uh, yeah. So he enlists his 13 year old son, Michael, to help him out. Oh. He explains what the head was telling him and what the plan is. And Michael's like, sounds great. I'm in. let's get this done oh my god can you imagine like if you saw a talking head named Charlie and you're like that's fine like I'm a little crazy

and then he was like kill kids and take their penises and you're like what the fuck is wrong with you I'm not that like he didn't have to go along with that part yeah oh my god yeah it's horrifying it is well it turns out I mean I'll give it away a little bit, but it turns out that there is a chemical component to the leather treatment that they used in the shoes because he was a shoemaker. So he's down in that shoe shop just fucking sucking up those chemicals that's like eating away at his brain essentially. I was totally thinking that, but then I was like, no, that's the mad hatters, because the glue the hatters used back then.

But same diff. Same fucking diff. It's all about ventilation, everybody. Come on. Get a fan. Buy a fucking fan. Open the door when it's nice out. Light a fire. That's what you like to do, Joe. Okay. Okay.

So it starts to get bad, everybody. Their first victim, they find a 10-year-old boy who's playing by himself at a playground because it's 1974. Can you imagine how bone-chilling it would be today if you drove by a playground and there was just like a little boy standing there alone? You would call every authority that you could think of. Yeah. ATF, get down here. Okay. So this boy was named Jose Collazo, and Joseph and Michael lure him into an abandoned factory. And there, they torture him, they sever his genitals, and then strangle him to death.

Oh, this isn't pretty. Uh-huh. So his next victim is his own son, Joe Jr. The one he conned in the day? Yes. So Joe Jr., after they reported him, it turns out Joe Jr. basically gets sent to juvie. And one of the reasons is because they found out that he was gay and he was like having an affair with an older man so they were like oh yeah you you you're a deviant you're the one that has to go to you

know kids jail or whatever when he gets out and comes home Joe senior has taken out a life insurance policy on him. Yeah, always a good sign. So they, Michael and Joe, somehow get him to go to a demolition site with them, and they end up drowning him there in a puddle of water, and then they just leave the body. Dude. Yeah. And then Joe Sr. tries to collect the insurance on his son.

And the insurance company is like, no fucking way. And Joe Sr.'s like, I didn't do it. I mean, Michael's here. He's fine. And I also took out an insurance policy on him. And they were like, huh, that's an odd rationale. Two months

later, Michael is found wandering the streets in a daze with multiple head wounds. He's taken to the hospital and he tells police he can't remember what happened. So, he basically tries to do

the exact same thing to his accomplice who's been with him the whole time. All right. So November 22nd, um, calendar and his son begin to break into homes. They basically start driving around the area and they start breaking into homes. And this is, apparently he tells Michael, this is part of this plan. This is what God does. So they go to Lindenwood, New Jersey and they break into the home of a woman named Joan Carty. They tie her to the bed and Joe sexually assaults her. And then two weeks later,

they break into the house in Susquehanna Township and they break into a house and Susquehanna Township and they break into a house and five women are having a bridge game. It is so jarring. When I read that I was just like, no, not them! No! Before you tell me what awful thing happened to them,

what if they'd been playing Trouble? What the fuck? Yeah. Some old ladies. Yahtzee. Yahtzee! Okay, now tell me that they all got killed. I wanted to say that before.

I knew you were going to. They didn't. They didn't. Woo! But they did get tied up, held hostage. They go around the house. They end up collecting $20,000 worth of money, jewelry, whatever, from these ladies. And they also cut one of the women's breasts before they leave.

Yeah. So then about a week later, they go to Homeland, Maryland. Homeland! And they break into the home of Pamela Jaskey and they hold her captive they force her to perform oral sex on Joseph and then um a couple days later they go and they break into the home of Mary Rudolph and they do the exact same thing to her okay, two days later, this was January 8th, 1975. They go, they're in Leonia, New Jersey. So what they did was they took the bus into New York City.

Then they went to Fort Lee, I think they said. Then they went into, they just started going to different towns and they would walk around, Joseph Callender and his 13-year-old son. They would walk around these little towns holding hands and cuddling, is what witnesses said. It was super creepy, weird behavior. And they would walk up to people's doors, knock on the doors. It was like they were casing the houses. They would knock on a door and they would say, is this where the Joneses live? And then if they thought a woman was home by herself they would force their way in well you see

a kid and i i that would totally throw me off yeah it's the perfect yeah but at some places um joe would say that they were salesmen which is fucking hilarious or it's like i'm a salesman and this is junior salesman we're here to sell you um candy okay so they finally end up at the home of Edwina Romaine. And her daughter, Didi, is there with Didi's three-year-old son, Robert. And her 90-year-old grandmother is Edwina's mother. So what's happened is Edwina's husband, Didi's father, had just had a heart attack and he's in the hospital. So basically, her two younger sisters still live in the house with Edwina's husband, Didi's father, had just had a heart attack and he's in the hospital. So basically her two younger sisters still live in the house with Edwina, the mom.

So Didi's there to help take care of the family. And she sees Robert and Michael Callender walking down the street holding hands, being weird. She's like, that's weird. And then she just goes doing laundry. And then they knock on the front door. And they say, is anyone else here? And as she goes to answer, he pulls, Joseph pulls out a gun. And they force their way in.

They make her strip down. And they make her three-year-old son strip down. And they tie them to a bed. Now, while all this has happened, Dee Dee's middle sister, Randy, comes home. And then he does the same thing to her and puts her in a different room. And then their mother and their other sister,

Retta, and their sister's boyfriend, Retta's boyfriend, Frank, they all come home. Jesus, he's like... One thing, just the doorbell keeps on ringing. They were at the hospital visiting the dad. Right. So they come home, and the same thing happens. They get tied up, stripped and tied up,

and they get tape wrapped around their head. And then Joseph and Michael start searching the house for money. Then there's another knock on the door. And it's their neighbor, 21-year-old Maria Fashing. And she's come over because she's the nurse that's hired to take care of the 90-year-old grandmother. So she comes in, Joseph forces her, strips her and forces her and Frank, the boyfriend, to go down into the basement. So once they're down there, basically

Joseph ties them up and then tells Maria that she has to bite Frank's penis off. And she's like, fuck yourself. What are you talking about? Oh, my God.

Yeah. And she basically fights him, says fuck off, and he slits her throat. Oh. Yes. Oh, my God. So while they're hearing, the family upstairs is all tied up, but they're hearing, of course, horrible shit down in the basement. So the mother, Edwina,

like she basically like moves her legs around, gets the things off her. Or I don't think she did actually. She was still tied up. She fucking goes out the front door, crawls out the front door and starts screaming. And yeah. And she makes it to the neighbor's house and she's screaming, going, they're killing my family, you know, going crazy. And the neighbor's house and she's screaming, going, they're killing my family, you know, going crazy. And the neighbor's like, what are you talking about? So the neighbor just, and then she's like, cut this off my legs. This whole weird thing. The lady just leaves her there and goes and calls the police.

She's like, whatever's happening, the police need to be involved with this. Because it's insane. Maybe she's making it up. I'm going to leave her out here. I mean, who knows? She's doing this for attention yeah her arms are tied behind her back all right so the cops come and they find everybody you know everybody all tied up and everything they go all around the house and then they realize that the people who have done this are no longer there, that they've run. So when Edwina got outside and started screaming, Michael heard her and ran down to the basement and said, there's people who are going to be coming, we have to go.

So they run out the back door, and they ran to the bus. And as they run to the bus stop, Joseph takes off his bloody shirt and throws it in the garbage, and then they throw their weapons into the bushes then they get on a city bus and like sit down topless and sweaty

and weird and there's still blood on you there's definitely blood and they're just like okay we just killed three people just an hour and a half and we'll be home. We'll make a new plan. So, of course, it's a tiny town.

So everybody in town's like, yes, I saw them. Yes, I saw them. There's a woman who watched them as they stood near the garbage can, take off their shirt, watch Joseph take his shirt off and throw it away. So she was like, the shirt's right here. Like everybody in town's like, the gun's over here. And they all saw them together being super

fucking weird walking up and down the street all day. So there was tons of witnesses. And basically what happened is there was a laundry tag in that shirt, which is hilarious. There was a laundry tag with the first three letters of his last name. Oh my god.

So when the cops find that, basically they see the make, they see the laundry tag, they put it together, they end up going to the dry cleaners and the dry cleaners are like, oh yeah, that's Joe Callenger's shirt. He's got the shoe shop down the street. Wow.

So Joseph and Michael are arrested and once they're in custody Joe now this is another one where this I'm pretty sure this guy was schizophrenic and I'm sure he was insanely fucked up yeah once he's in police custody he just he just turns it up to 25 so he starts telling the police that he's been alive for a thousand years. And mostly as a butterfly. Sure, dude. Like, pick something else.

That sounds crazy. It also sounds sad. Like, I'm a beautiful butterfly. You're not. Actually, do we have a picture of Joe Callenger? I think there's... Oh, I want to see this. I'm a butterfly. Oh, no we have a picture of Joe Callenger? I think there's... Oh, I want to see this. I'm a butterfly.

Oh, no. I'm a beautiful butterfly. Oh, that's not what I was picturing. I was picturing almost like Popeye. I don't know why, but it's Bluto instead. It's totally Bluto. It's Bluto. It really is.

Oh. Ew. Oh, Joe. Ew. Ew. Can you go to the next picture? Because I think both of their, yeah. And that's his little son, Michael, 13 years old.

That's Joe without a beard. I think the beard is better for him. Yeah, I agree. For the face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just want to look at that kid. I had that haircut for sure. Yeah.

Mop top. Yes. Yeah. It's very. Yes. Yeah. It's very eighties. If he had hoop earrings, that's me in college. He looks so sinister. It looks like a little brat,

you know? Well, this, I mean, but the sad thing is too, is like, it's all these kids who are just getting like severely abused every single day. So then,

you know, the monster dad is like, oh, you're my special best friend. And so even though it's to go torture and rape and kill people, he's just like, well, I got picked. It's something good. And it's like, oh, I know what happens when you say no to dad. That's not fucking fun. You get straight up killed.

Yeah. no to dad. That's not fucking fun. You get straight up killed. Yeah. So he also told the cops he was on a mission to help people whose brains were malfunctioning

because they were wearing badly designed shoes. Look at these are fucking aerosols. I should not be wearing flats with this dress at all fuck it i definitely need joe callender's help okay so he's found guilty he's sentenced for the lesser crimes of burglary robbery kidnapping um He is sentenced to 30 to 80 years. And the judge who sentenced him

for those crimes called him an evil man who is utterly vile and depraved. But then, then he is tried for Jose Collazo's murder, the little boy. And on October 14th, 1976,

he's found guilty and sentenced to life in prison. So, it gets So it's pretty interesting when he goes to prison. He attempts suicide one time by trying to light himself on fire. Not the best way to go, I would say. No, that's not number one in my book. No. But as he lit himself on

fire and also his cell on fire, he also cracked an egg on his head to see if he could make it cook. What the fuck? Beautiful butterfly. What are you doing? What the fuck?

And did it? Yeah. He made it? Yeah. He made it. It was Denny's home run special. Some hash browns were in there. Now I'm like, he was a psycho. That's the fucking, the butterfly thing, fine, fair. That's just words.

Yeah. But now you're getting into cooking? Now you're getting into fucking culinary, self-culinary shit? Get out of here. This is chopped. And he also was fighting the jail guards who were trying to save his life as he burned alive.

Once they got into his cell, he's like, get away from me. I like eggs. Some people theorized that that was an attempt to get transferred, because he was in the state prison, to get transferred into Pennsylvania's Fairview

Hospital for the mentally insane. The egg was a nice touch. That's what he was doing. Yeah, right? He got there. He's like, eggs are fucking crazy and you know it. This is insane. Transfer me. We eat the embryos of another animal. What? And they're like, yeah, you're right.

Eggs are crazy. Never mind. Go ahead. He's just a really irritating vegan, it turns out. They have feelings. Get out of here, Joe. So when he's in Fairview, he slashes the throat of a fellow inmate. But that inmate survives. So then they transfer him back to state prison.

He chilled out for a little while while he was there, but he couldn't handle it. Ten years later, in a TV interview, oh, sorry, wait. He's transferred back to state prison. And on March, oh, no, sorry, that's the death part. So I'll say this. Ten years after he's in prison, he's in a TV interview. And these are on YouTube. I didn't watch it because he's so fucking creepy.

I think of that last picture where he's old in jail. Oh, sorry, that's Michael. That's Michael when he got arrested. Oh, no. But then the next one is old Joe. If you could go to the next one. Look at him. Knock, knock, knock.

Hello? Oh, my God. I'm here to sell you this knife. Settle, settle. You're good. Ow. Why am I getting pinched? Stay with me.

I always do that if I have something I'm excited about to tell Georgia. I'm like, eh. And now it's like across the room. You'll just do this at me. She's got something to tell me. I can tell because she'd come over here. Sorry, that was personal side. That's personal.

Podcasting. It's an inside joke. In this TV interview he told the interviewer that he wanted to slaughter every single person on earth after which he hoped to commit suicide and then become God. What about a butterfly again? Is that what God does, Joe? Kill everybody on earth? Yep.

So he gets transferred back to state prison and on March 26th 1996 he had a seizure and choked to death on his own vomit in the prison good that is the proper way for that guy to die well here's what I like about

that if you think about it a little bit he's in the prison infirmary which means there are doctors and nurses near at least within 10 feet of him and he starts choking on his vomit while he has a seizure and they're like let's just see how this plays out we could tip him onto his side but he's a huge piece of shit yeah here's what's kind of interesting as a as interesting as an epilogue to this. Michael was placed on probation until his 25th birthday. Because once he was in the system, they realized that this monster father was just using and manipulating him in every possible way. So they actually changed his name and put him into foster care. And his foster family that he went to protected him. When they tried to call him for one of these, like there was a bunch of, what do you call them after the trial?

When they try to, like a parole thing or when he's fighting at an appeal. Thank you very much, but please don't heckle. role thing or when he's fighting at an appeal, thank you very much, but please don't heckle. On the appeal, they call the foster family and they were like, he's not going to talk to you, he's not going to talk to anybody, don't call us anymore. He's

not going back there. And the defense had, oh, that was my big, I did the ending in the middle. Say it again. At the end, the substance was called Tulene. Tulene. And they were like, they pretty much think that he was just insane.

And he's fine now? Like, dreads insane. He's fine now? Oh, no, not Michael. Sorry, that's the Joseph thing that I said earlier. Got it, got it, got it, got it. We're just stumbling to an ending now. Okay.

Well, you can say it again. Yeah. Edit that out, Steven. Say it at the end time. Okay. The end. Thank you. I have to tell you, now I have to tell you a secret.

It's this big secret that I'm keeping tell you, now I have to tell you a secret. It's this big secret that I'm keeping from you, which is that he was mostly a Philly murderer. So I apologize for that. But he did have the one in Homeland, which is close by here.

But once I had it all finished, and then I was like, wait, fuck. This is all Philly. And that's why I started looking up these other fucking crazy stories. One of which, can I just tell it really quick? Yeah.

It's that one. No, I was asking her. It was that one. And I think maybe you guys have heard of this, but I found it on this website and it's basically that their row house, in 1999, there was the revitalization project where they were knocking down all the row houses. And when that happened, they started finding bodies in the basements of

those row houses. And the police were assuming that it was all from the drug wars and it was, you know, they assumed it was all that, but then they start identifying those bodies and the one thing they all have in common as they are all sex offenders pedophiles child molesters all that had served at least for at least three different crimes had And there were 51 in all. And they end up, like, in 2004, pulling over a guy. So when they do the chemical analysis or whatever, they figure out that they all had sodium pentothal in their system. So the police put together that they think that the killer ambushed them,

shot them with sodium pentothal, which is like a... Xanax. Yes, exactly. It's a local anesthetic, and then it's also a barbiturate. And then it took them into those basements, tortured them, killed them, and then cut barbiturate. And then it took them into those basements, tortured them, killed them, and then cut them all up.

And so in 2004, they pull a guy over that is a suspicious vehicle, and they find he has two suitcases filled with surgery equipment, power drills, sodium pentothal, knives. Murder kit. A murder kit of the highest order. And so they arrest him, but then they can't keep him on anything

because there's no proof that he's connected to anything. And he disappears, and then he goes down to Florida, and then sex offenders in Florida start disappearing so I'm like this is the fucking greatest story I've ever heard in my life this is amazing but I can only find it on this one website right twistedminds.com which is cool there's a lot of good shit on there, but it was just this one thing, and the way it's set up is the guy that wrote it said, I was told this by a freelance crime reporter. Huh?

Is that a thing? And then it said his name, which was like Joaquin Kale something, and that person doesn't exist. So ultimately, I think that may have been a creepypasta of some kind, because I can't, although they were finding bodies

when they knocked down those row houses, there's no proof that any of that other stuff ever happened. So I couldn't, I had it, I was writing it out by hand, so stoked, and then I was like, well, this could probably be a lie. Like, there's no way to prove it. Yeah, so it's not true.

Unless someone in this audience wants to start. Yeah. Do we have time for a hometown? Yeah. Oh. Should we do it? It's now time for one of you to tell us your hometown murder. Wait, wait, wait.

Is it her? Wait, Karen, are we going to do this one? Oh, sorry. Hold on. Wait, or should we pick someone? Maybe both. Maybe both. That might be the solution. Because Karen and I got

backstage, there was two envelopes, and we got invited to a wedding. You guys! And she included I can hear her freaking out. She included her hometown. And I was like, oh, fuck. Let's do this one.

So Grace Douglas, are you here? There she is. Come here. Oh, and she's accessible. I was going to be like, if you're up there, fuck off. Vince is going to walk you up. Here's the thing, though. I'm not going to that wedding.

Oh, no, no, no. This is a, what's it called? You know, like, sorry, but here's a gift. gift. Yeah but I'm also I'm not giving a gift. No this is it. Oh this is the gift? Wow. Hi Grace! Hi! How are you? Oh we have a mic for you. Hi! Thank you for the effort let me get your shirt. Oh here you get your microphone. Okay let's go stand over here. Are you. Oh, here you get your microphone. Okay. Let's go stand over here. Are you ready? So you can get scared. Get in here. Center up. Center up. Say your name and your grade. Um, so I was looking at your, thanks for the wedding invitation. You're welcome. We'll take beef. Um, and I was reading your murder and I'm like, Oh, this is good.

It's good. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. And you didn't know about it for a while, right? I didn't. Okay, well, I'm going to let you go. Yeah. Okay. So my mom was an x-ray technician, and they did school a little differently back then. She was at West Virginia University.

Really? Really. They threw her into practicals right away, um this was like 1970 i believe and there were two freshman girls that had gone missing a few weeks earlier they um didn't have like a transportation system at wvu into morgantown so hitchhiking was common and the girls had gone in to see oliver i believe and then they disappeared. The musical? Yes. Okay.

Is that where you're supposed to know who he was? A specific person, yes. And my mom had switched on-call shifts with someone for that night. And so she was just in the on-call room, and she got paged to the morgue. And she hadn't ever been to the morgue. This was her first time. She was like, this is weird. I don't know what I'm doing.

She grabbed the portable x-ray machine, went down there, and there were a bunch of cops. And they told her that they had found those girls and that they needed to, the bodies were pretty decomposed, so they wanted her to x-ray for bullets. So she got in there and kind of like pulled back the sheet and they had no heads. I mean we knew it was gonna be bad. Yeah no one had warned her so she's freaking out but she finished her job and then decided she was gonna quit school but she didn't. She had a couple drinks after that. I think. Yeah, sure. Well, she had to finish her on-call shift, so she was kind of stuck there. So can you imagine going back to paperwork? Yeah. Do-do-do. So the story gets weirder because they'd been looking to figure out what had happened to the girls,

and they got an anonymous letter that directed them to the bodies, and that's how they actually found them. And so they tried to trace back where the letter came from and it led them to a religious cult here in Maryland who had said that they held seances, which then told them who the murderers, well, gave them descriptions of the murderers and told them where the bodies were. Yeah. So they had sent them another, the police another letter too

before they had talked to them that told them where to find the heads, but they never found the heads. So that's weird. Then they, actually, the police looked into this cult and they cleared them all of any linkage to the murders.

Even though they knew where the bodies were? I don't know. No. She's really mad at you. I am. I still think they had something to do with it. They never found the killer?

Well, then there was a guy who was in jail for something else. I think he had raped an underage girl. And he confessed to the murders. But it was like a jailhouse confession, and a lot of stuff didn't add up. And he gave a very elaborate story about picking them up and then chopping their heads off with his brother's machete because people just have machetes. Was his brother from the jungle?

Good question. And then he later recanted, though. But he was still convicted. He appealed, was convicted again, and then he died in jail. And then since then, though, there was like one of the original detectives that worked on the case has never really given it up. And so they have reopened the case now, and it's considered an unsolved murder. Wow. Did that just happen recently? It happened a few years ago, yeah.

Wow. And I looked it up because after I started listening to this, my mom had told me this just casually recently? It happened a few years ago. Yeah. And I looked it up because after I started listening to this, my mom had told me this just casually one day when I was in junior high, she was like, oh yeah, when I was in the hospital working, you know, there were these headless bodies. And so I, you know, I was like, I wonder whatever happened. Cause as far as she knew, they never found the heads. Although, oh, the other thing when she was working, um, especially the doctors would tease her all the time. They'd be like, hey, Joanne, they need you in the morgue.

They found those heads. Inappropriate. Fucking doctors. Yeah. No, such dicks. Yeah. Wow. Is it called something, like the so-and-so murders?

They call it the West Virginia University co-ed murders. Looking that fucking shit up. Wow. Yeah. Thank you, Grace. That was awesome. Congratulations on your wedding. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much.

That was good. I'll take that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was nuts. Right? Shit, girl. Oh, my God. Should we do one more? Do you want to pick someone? Yeah you want to do one more really quick? Yeah. I looked at you.

I looked right at you. So come up here, but do it quickly. I know. I don't either. If you go over, um, like there's Vince putting his hand up in the back,

look straight back. What's the tall guy? There's Vince back there. There's Vince. He takes care of us. Yeah, turns out. He gets us really good Peruvian food backstage. I mean, here's the thing.

When you're a nurse or an x-ray technician, part of your job can be just one day someone calls you and goes, like, go down and x-ray people that don't have heads. They don't even add, like, that part in. That's just part of it. They don't have to tell you. Hi, what's your name? Hi.

No, you're not. Hi. I'm good. How are you? What's your name? I'm Amanda. Hi, Amanda. Amanda's here, everybody.

Wait, are you Amanda? Is that you? Yes. Oh, is this the one? Holy shit. Holy shit. She's got my name. How did we know?

Yes. I'm 47. I'm 30. Tell us what you tweeted at us because it was hilarious. I've been obnoxiously tweeting. I know, I know. I love it. I don't even use Twitter.

I dated a murderer. Oh, yeah. But wait. My mom's not happy about it. You also said also said i'm gonna wait to get blackout drunk tell after your show so okay this is a real life story i love it i know you want me to be i'm so sorry no no you're fine wait i have to tell something really quickly i told i told georgia there's this girl who just made the funniest joke on twitter and And then she's like, yeah, but we just got this wedding invitation. And so,

and she's like, Ooh, this is a good one. So then we're, we do that. Then we're like, we have another minute. I don't know.

It's you. I just, I'm psychic is what I'm saying. Did you see that? You're so good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

See that girl right there? That's my best friend. She just graduated college to be an RN like your mom. Nice. Oh my God. She's a badass single mom. I'm kidding. Congratulations.

Her son, this is going to be like downer than an upper real fast. Her son had cancer, kicked cancer's ass. Oh my God. Yeah. Don't try to make me cry. Mother's Day weekend. I'm sorry. Okay.

Tell your story. Okay. So, anyone here from New York? Oh my God. Yeah, sorry. Okay. Tell your story. Okay. So this is, um, anyone here from New York? Oh my God. Yeah, girl. Okay. So you're both going to make fun of me for this, but we bartended an Outback Steakhouse. Nice. Fuck not make, we're not making fun of that shit. Great. We love that place. So, um, I was also like a raging alcoholic around 18 to 21. And this guy who owned a Quiznos, thought it was cool at the time, wanted to hang out with me. So we went to a waterfront bar, drove myself and my cousin home.

And I was like, this guy's slightly creepy. And wasn't enjoying it. And I had him drop me off at a diner. Because I was like, I don't want him to know where I live. So I called my stepfather. Smart. I thought it was real smart. It's very smart. I called my stepdad. I was like, listen, my best friend didn't know this guy's first name is going to drop me off at this diner. Will you pick me up? He was all about it. So fast forward a couple of years later, a very good friend of mine who is smoking hot. Like, you know, you have those friends that are just like real hot. Sure.

She's so hot. And she starts dating him and we're like, that's not the best idea. The Quiznos guy? The Quiznos guy. Okay. Can't she get anybody? She's 21 and everyone's like, you know what? She's real hot.

He's got a lot of money. This is a good idea. Give your boss money, you know what? She's real hot. He's got a lot of money. This is a good idea. And she's like, you know what? He gives me Molly on the weekends, and I really like it. And I was like, go for it, girl. And then she told me, she was like, you know, he got real mad at me. We ordered pizza. He went to pick up the pizza, and I looked in the drawer for a pen.

And when I came home, he was like, you opened the drawer. She was like, what are you talking about?, he was like, you opened the drawer. She was like, what are you talking about? And he was like, I taped the drawers. I know that you opened the drawer. Oh, shit. Well, that's kind of weird. This is all happening at an Outback Steakhouse. Very big news.

Oh, my God. Okay. Did she work at the steakhouse, too? Sure did. Fuck yeah. Sure did. And way too hot to work at a steakhouse, I'll tell you that. And so she, this is about a month after that, she says to me, listen, he went to a club last night.

He came home the next day and he said, you know, there's this girl that's missing, but we hung out with her all night. I want to help the cops. And so she was like, yeah, that's great. And the cops want to talk to you because you used to hang out with him And so she was like, yeah, that's great. And the cops want to talk to you because you used to hang out with him. And I was like, yeah, that's great. So we talked to the cops and they're like, listen, this girl's missing.

Her name's Laura Garza, which was a very, very big case in New York, if anyone's heard of it. Really beautiful girl from Texas. Hispanic girl. She was beautiful. And her family, I'm Puerto Rican, her family's like, my family, you don't... You're not Puerto Rican.

I know, I'm a white-looking bitch, I know. White-ass bitch. But on financial aid forms, my mama say I'm Puerto Rican. Oh, I see, I see, I see. Yes. Damn. Yes.

Shit. Steven, send that to the FBI. I don't think... I'm done with college, right? Oh, but it hurts. And in't think, I'm done with college. Oh, but it matters. And in New York, that shit's free now. So she ends up missing. And so the state troopers come to our outback steakhouse.

She's a hostess. I'm a server at the time. And the state troopers come in. They say, listen, your boyfriend knew this girl. Can we have your cell phone? And she was like, uh, okay. But I thought he was helping you. And she's like, you know, we just need your cell phone.

Fine, that's great. She gives him the cell phone. That night she sleeps at his house. No. Okay. Sleeps at her boyfriend's house. With no cell phone? With no cell phone.

Oh, shit, girl. And in the morning he's like, my landlord's coming over. My rent is due and my lease is up i gotta clean everything top to bottom and i spit a little bleach on this part of the carpet so i cut a piece out of the closet and i'm gonna put it right here she helped him oh she goes back to work set out back steak steakhouse, and we're all there. State troopers come in and they're like, bitch, you gotta go. She's an accomplice, they think.

Well, long story short, the dead girl was in the closet while she slept. He was having sex with her and she saw a picture of super hot, smoking hot Lindsay and said, do you saw a picture of super hot, smoking hot Lindsay,

and said, do you have a girlfriend? And he said yes. And she got real upset, and he strangled her. Oh my God. Put her in the closet, got spooked, had the girlfriend stay over. She helped him bleach the apartment. No. Oh my God.

But not knowing why. Not knowing why. Okay, okay. 100% not knowing why. And it took, okay, and I live in a pretty small hamlet. It's about an hour north of Manhattan, kind of west, but they were looking

in the woods, in my woods, my parents' woods, everyone's woods, could not find it. The mom of the girlfriend was like, listen, he came, he had dirt in his clothes and he said he helped him change her tire. I don't know if that helps you. He had dumped the body in Pennsylvania, but it took them almost a year to find it. And she, I mean, smart thinking, ended up dating a state trooper after.

Nice. She did. Yeah, she did. She did. Smoking hot. Lindsay got herself a cop. Yeah, he dumped her. But eventually, she's got a nice boyfriend now but

he what's the name of your podcast because i'm gonna start listening to it girl but she legitimately was asleep in in the apartment that's our turn to take girls fucking insane and he in court she had to testify against him and he said, she saw a picture of you and pointed to her and said, saw a picture of you and freaked out, so I strangled and killed her. And you know, like, real,

I mean, we're kind of in a dumb town. People aren't very educated. They're like, there's pieces of her body in the Quiznos subs. Oh my god. That Quiznos got shut down. Say that right now. But yes, our friend

Lindsay did stay sexy. She did not get murdered. Thank god. But she was real upset because the family came from Texas and camped out at our Outback Steakhouse every day to ask her for what she knew. Wow. Real oxen. That's a lot. I feel real cool touching this table.

Amanda, right? Yes, Karen. Amanda, that was the best hometown murder I think we've ever had. Thank you. I'm sorry. Lauren. That's the badass nurse mom. Grace, you were amazing.

Amanda. Thanks. That was great. H mom. Grace, you were amazing. Amanda, you were amazing. That was great. Hilarious. Thank you. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. I don't want to take this from her.

We'll see you later. Should we just let her take this? Yeah, exactly. She just keeps talking. Anyway, the other thing that happened at Outback Steakhouse, and a lot of crazy shit happens there, me tell you she was fucking good she's like i could learn something here's the thing that's really irritating like when i started stand-up comedy in 1990 not that many people did it and very few people were funny and not that many

people were good at it and now everybody's hilarious and everyone's good at performing and it's like the most fun thing in the world but it took me forever to get like to amanda's level and it really pisses me off really pisses me off i am a hundred percent not there yet like not even there's we're gonna you'll get there you'll get you know what you have to do you have to bartend at outback steakhouse fuck yeah practicing i'm to take her class. You guys, this was such an amazing show. We love you. Thank you so much.

What a great crowd you are. Amazing. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being a part of the Rhythm Nation. Yeah. It's so nice that you came. Punk Rock Crew, you guys fucked it up the whole time thank you for being punk

thank you and stay sexy and bye you guys thank you Thank you.